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\"text\": \"以最主要的目的所以在這邊拜託因為你是我們客委會的主委我希望我們客委會發展客家這個母語是非常重要的一環那如果用這個臺灣台語居然那麼多的客家鄉親有這種疑慮那我們客委會主委是我們客家鄉親的大家長你應該站在客家鄉親的立場要為客家鄉親來發聲所以這部分希望\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 203.231, \"end\": 203.591, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 203.591, \"end\": 203.871, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 203.871, \"end\": 204.052, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 204.052, \"end\": 204.192, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 204.192, \"end\": 204.372, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 204.372, \"end\": 204.652, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 204.652, \"end\": 205.192, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 205.192, \"end\": 205.352, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 205.352, \"end\": 205.572, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 205.572, \"end\": 205.913, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 205.913, \"end\": 206.613, 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\"的\", \"start\": 495.116, \"end\": 495.416, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 495.416, \"end\": 495.616, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 495.616, \"end\": 496.057, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"族\", \"start\": 496.057, \"end\": 496.297, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 496.297, \"end\": 496.937, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 496.937, \"end\": 497.258, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 497.258, \"end\": 497.778, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 497.778, \"end\": 498.018, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 498.018, \"end\": 498.359, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 498.359, \"end\": 498.579, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 498.579, \"end\": 498.919, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"託\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 498.919, \"end\": 499.099, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"託\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 499.099, \"end\": 499.259, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 499.259, \"end\": 499.44, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 499.44, \"end\": 499.9, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 499.9, \"end\": 500.14, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 500.14, \"end\": 500.26, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 500.26, \"end\": 500.4, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 500.4, \"end\": 500.42, \"score\": 0.025}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:26,279\n麻煩請我們谷主委好,谷主委主委,我請問你針對我們今天閩南語改台灣台語這部分文化部說他們的書面用語命名考量是要堅固不想排除在台灣語言之外和尊重各族群對語言的自稱\n\n2\n00:00:27,259 --> 00:00:52,436\n那針對這部分他說他們有針對國人對語言的稱呼做了調查才把各種國家的語言定為現在公布的名稱那我想請教主委那我們客委會有沒有針對客家族群做調查詢問他們是否認為閩南語佔了臺語這個名稱之後有沒有讓他覺得自己被排除被擠壓\n\n3\n00:00:53,867 --> 00:01:01,272\n我想這樣在名稱的部分在國土每天的名錄、檔案、國土的意見無窮用就不僅好路出窮好路出窮也不是鐵板一塊的地方也有無窮用的意見客家出窮什麼窮用的地方有無窮用的意見所以在這樣立場之下我們是尊重所有人對於講法做法其實在合理費內講\n\n4\n00:01:22,504 --> 00:01:30,205\n因爲要不適合或堅持一定要用法：所以我們都建議用法：建議用法由我們客家客家委員會來聽說：我可以講好老法：不是講一些其他語言：所以在名稱當中,我們可以選擇選擇比如說,剛才說的臺灣台語,臺灣的明南語、好老法\n\n5\n00:01:50,469 --> 00:01:56,916\n有審問過嗎?有調查過嗎?自己的調查,我們沒有做文件調查,沒有啦但是我們在那裏,在該座的名錄上,該座的意見會反映出來那用在董事長講言反彈董事長嗎?在,我也是在所以我可以說\n\n6\n00:02:09,770 --> 00:02:29,096\n因為我們都聽到很多基層的客家鄉親的聲音他們很擔心客語的傳承那行政院跟文化部這樣子的面面他們一直跟我們反映包含其實原住民也是一樣他說認為這個就是欺負弱勢對於弱勢的客家人、原住民\n\n7\n00:02:29,796 --> 00:02:52,970\n這一部分他們認為如果這樣子去命名久而久之﹐會認為臺澎金馬的主流語言就是臺灣台語所以要拜託我們客委會主委要拜託拿出客家精神、人間精神要為我們你是我們客委會的主委你要為客家族群發聲我們今天不是打壓\n\n8\n00:02:54,071 --> 00:03:05,879\n任何一個族群．不是打壓任何一個語言．但是我們是希望能夠堅持國家語言．各族群的平等平權．您會發出什麼動盪嗎?阿雄,沒有錯．就是不關於喀羅法、喀法．也許原住民的法．各種的法．就在臺灣的國家語言．也許是沒有問題的．所以也許平等．才可以在國家語言發出法律說．\n\n9\n00:03:23,231 --> 00:03:52,168\n以最主要的目的所以在這邊拜託因為你是我們客委會的主委我希望我們客委會發展客家這個母語是非常重要的一環那如果用這個臺灣台語居然那麼多的客家鄉親有這種疑慮那我們客委會主委是我們客家鄉親的大家長你應該站在客家鄉親的立場要為客家鄉親來發聲所以這部分希望\n\n10\n00:03:52,648 --> 00:04:05,595\n我們客家委員會主委一定要拿出港將的精神．針對我們客家族群的權益．一定要站出來為大家發聲．我希望所有的意見．我希望會準確地了結．他要撇分．我們最佳的方法．請我們那個．文化部李次長．好,請李次長\n\n11\n00:04:18,038 --> 00:04:38,004\n理事長我剛剛聽我們楊崇英委員詢問到所以針對你說閩南語改臺灣台語你說其實你們行政單位也知道這樣做基本上會造成傷害對不對因為我剛剛有聽到我不是這樣我是說如果委員\n\n12\n00:04:38,844 --> 00:05:02,009\n各界有這樣的反應有鄉親覺得這個命名有受到傷害的時候作為行政單位我們有那個責任要多做說明多做溝通那其實事實上今天會開這個會議其實就是因為很多我們的客家鄉親、原民一些比較弱勢的族群他們就提出那麼大的反彈所以今天才會針對這個會議來做討論\n\n13\n00:05:05,790 --> 00:05:32,241\n我們是認為基本上現在以現行來講並沒有造成什麼樣的問題我不知道為什麼我們現在我們文化部要去操作這個意識形態要去撕裂族群破壞我們彼此之間的團結現在一直以來大家都很和諧我不知道我們文化部這樣做到底有什麼意義還是文化部找不到更有意義的事情來做嗎\n\n14\n00:05:32,861 --> 00:05:59,048\n市長跟委員報告當然也是臺語團體臺語鄉親不斷地希望我們要在名稱上面給予臺語一個正式地位所以我們才去訂定所謂的書面建議用語那我問你你說因為堅持用臺灣台語把閩南話改成臺灣台語是因為你們調查結果的多數尊重使用者自稱對不對是的\n\n15\n00:05:59,508 --> 00:06:14,978\n好那我們同一個調查報告我們也看到那你們在調查國語之後講國語他們說稱為國語是使用者最多他們也認為國語是他們覺得最好的名稱那為什麼你們要把國語改成華語\n\n16\n00:06:16,525 --> 00:06:27,299\n跟委員報告我們並沒有去變更國語或華語這個名詞不是你說閩南語改成臺灣台語是因為尊重使用者自稱嘛那我看到你們調查報告他們說稱為國語也是他們覺得最多最好為什麼你這個要改成華語\n\n17\n00:06:33,146 --> 00:06:55,555\n所以我們沒有改成華語這個詞我們沒有任何的公文去要求行政單位將國語改成華語沒有還有好那針對福州話、閩東話、閩北話他們也說比講馬族語還多也就是說稱馬族語是少的可是為什麼你們又建議要把它改成馬族語\n\n18\n00:06:56,928 --> 00:07:24,020\n這個部分是跟連江縣政府有做了一個溝通我們請連江縣政府告訴我們他們希望用什麼樣的語言來做自稱那你剛剛又說尊重尊重多數使用者認為尊重哪一個名稱是最好你說閩南語是因為說他用臺灣台語所以說他們說使用者自稱使用最多那一樣國語最多你要用華語那說福州話、閩東話、閩北話\n\n19\n00:07:26,421 --> 00:07:45,172\n講說用這個來代表性的又最多你又把它改成馬族語所以我們是希望不要多重標準不要為了想做的事情為了自己圓一個謊去定一個標準說因為是這樣那別的你又不用這個標準同樣的事情不同的標準\n\n20\n00:07:46,112 --> 00:08:01,384\n所以我們在這邊真的是希望文化部找一些有意義的事情來做不要一直操作意識形態撕裂族群破壞團結現在現行大家都非常和諧整個族群都相安無事\n\n21\n00:08:02,004 --> 00:08:20,420\n為什麼要去造成族群的對立造成台灣民眾彼此之間為了這個語言的去爭鬥我覺得希望文化部針對這部分審慎評估來仔細來考量我們真的希望族群國家語言平等平權拜託拜託好謝謝委員的指導謝謝好謝謝圖群級委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t26279\t麻煩請我們谷主委好,谷主委主委,我請問你針對我們今天閩南語改台灣台語這部分文化部說他們的書面用語命名考量是要堅固不想排除在台灣語言之外和尊重各族群對語言的自稱\n27259\t52436\t那針對這部分他說他們有針對國人對語言的稱呼做了調查才把各種國家的語言定為現在公布的名稱那我想請教主委那我們客委會有沒有針對客家族群做調查詢問他們是否認為閩南語佔了臺語這個名稱之後有沒有讓他覺得自己被排除被擠壓\n53867\t61272\t我想這樣在名稱的部分在國土每天的名錄、檔案、國土的意見無窮用就不僅好路出窮好路出窮也不是鐵板一塊的地方也有無窮用的意見客家出窮什麼窮用的地方有無窮用的意見所以在這樣立場之下我們是尊重所有人對於講法做法其實在合理費內講\n82504\t90205\t因爲要不適合或堅持一定要用法：所以我們都建議用法：建議用法由我們客家客家委員會來聽說：我可以講好老法：不是講一些其他語言：所以在名稱當中,我們可以選擇選擇比如說,剛才說的臺灣台語,臺灣的明南語、好老法\n110469\t116916\t有審問過嗎?有調查過嗎?自己的調查,我們沒有做文件調查,沒有啦但是我們在那裏,在該座的名錄上,該座的意見會反映出來那用在董事長講言反彈董事長嗎?在,我也是在所以我可以說\n129770\t149096\t因為我們都聽到很多基層的客家鄉親的聲音他們很擔心客語的傳承那行政院跟文化部這樣子的面面他們一直跟我們反映包含其實原住民也是一樣他說認為這個就是欺負弱勢對於弱勢的客家人、原住民\n149796\t172970\t這一部分 他們認為 如果這樣子去命名久而久之﹐會認為臺澎金馬的主流語言就是臺灣台語所以 要拜託我們客委會主委 要拜託拿出客家精神、人間精神要為我們 你是我們客委會的主委 你要為客家族群發聲我們今天不是打壓\n174071\t185879\t任何一個族群．不是打壓任何一個語言．但是我們是希望能夠堅持國家語言．各族群的平等平權．您會發出什麼動盪嗎?阿雄,沒有錯．就是不關於喀羅法、喀法．也許原住民的法．各種的法．就在臺灣的國家語言．也許是沒有問題的．所以也許平等．才可以在國家語言發出法律說．\n203231\t232168\t以最主要的目的所以在這邊拜託因為你是我們客委會的主委我希望我們客委會發展客家這個母語是非常重要的一環那如果用這個臺灣台語居然那麼多的客家鄉親有這種疑慮那我們客委會主委是我們客家鄉親的大家長你應該站在客家鄉親的立場要為客家鄉親來發聲所以這部分希望\n232648\t245595\t我們客家委員會主委一定要拿出港將的精神．針對我們客家族群的權益．一定要站出來為大家發聲．我希望所有的意見．我希望會準確地了結．他要撇分．我們最佳的方法．請我們那個．文化部李次長．好,請李次長\n258038\t278004\t理事長我剛剛聽我們楊崇英委員詢問到所以針對你說閩南語改臺灣台語你說其實你們行政單位也知道這樣做基本上會造成傷害對不對因為我剛剛有聽到我不是這樣我是說如果委員\n278844\t302009\t各界有這樣的反應有鄉親覺得這個命名有受到傷害的時候作為行政單位我們有那個責任要多做說明多做溝通那其實事實上今天會開這個會議其實就是因為很多我們的客家鄉親、原民一些比較弱勢的族群他們就提出那麼大的反彈所以今天才會針對這個會議來做討論\n305790\t332241\t我們是認為基本上現在以現行來講並沒有造成什麼樣的問題我不知道為什麼我們現在我們文化部要去操作這個意識形態要去撕裂族群破壞我們彼此之間的團結現在一直以來大家都很和諧我不知道我們文化部這樣做到底有什麼意義還是文化部找不到更有意義的事情來做嗎\n332861\t359048\t市長跟委員報告當然也是臺語團體臺語鄉親不斷地希望我們要在名稱上面給予臺語一個正式地位所以我們才去訂定所謂的書面建議用語那我問你你說因為堅持用臺灣台語把閩南話改成臺灣台語是因為你們調查結果的多數尊重使用者自稱對不對是的\n359508\t374978\t好 那我們同一個調查報告我們也看到那你們在調查國語之後講國語他們說稱為國語是使用者最多他們也認為國語是他們覺得最好的名稱那為什麼你們要把國語改成華語\n376525\t387299\t跟委員報告我們並沒有去變更國語或華語這個名詞不是你說閩南語改成臺灣台語是因為尊重使用者自稱嘛那我看到你們調查報告他們說稱為國語也是他們覺得最多最好為什麼你這個要改成華語\n393146\t415555\t所以我們沒有改成華語這個詞我們沒有任何的公文去要求行政單位將國語改成華語沒有還有好那針對福州話、閩東話、閩北話他們也說比講馬族語還多也就是說稱馬族語是少的可是為什麼你們又建議要把它改成馬族語\n416928\t444020\t這個部分是跟連江縣政府有做了一個溝通我們請連江縣政府告訴我們他們希望用什麼樣的語言來做自稱那你剛剛又說尊重尊重多數使用者認為尊重哪一個名稱是最好你說閩南語是因為說他用臺灣台語所以說他們說使用者自稱使用最多那一樣國語最多你要用華語那說福州話、閩東話、閩北話\n446421\t465172\t講說用這個來代表性的又最多你又把它改成馬族語所以我們是希望不要多重標準不要為了想做的事情為了自己圓一個謊去定一個標準說因為是這樣那別的你又不用這個標準同樣的事情不同的標準\n466112\t481384\t所以我們在這邊真的是希望 文化部找一些有意義的事情來做不要一直操作意識形態 撕裂族群 破壞團結現在現行大家都非常和諧 整個族群都相安無事\n482004\t500420\t為什麼要去造成族群的對立造成台灣民眾彼此之間為了這個語言的去爭鬥我覺得希望文化部針對這部分審慎評估來仔細來考量我們真的希望族群國家語言平等平權拜託拜託好 謝謝委員的指導 謝謝好 謝謝圖群級委員\n","txt":"麻煩請我們谷主委好,谷主委主委,我請問你針對我們今天閩南語改台灣台語這部分文化部說他們的書面用語命名考量是要堅固不想排除在台灣語言之外和尊重各族群對語言的自稱\n那針對這部分他說他們有針對國人對語言的稱呼做了調查才把各種國家的語言定為現在公布的名稱那我想請教主委那我們客委會有沒有針對客家族群做調查詢問他們是否認為閩南語佔了臺語這個名稱之後有沒有讓他覺得自己被排除被擠壓\n我想這樣在名稱的部分在國土每天的名錄、檔案、國土的意見無窮用就不僅好路出窮好路出窮也不是鐵板一塊的地方也有無窮用的意見客家出窮什麼窮用的地方有無窮用的意見所以在這樣立場之下我們是尊重所有人對於講法做法其實在合理費內講\n因爲要不適合或堅持一定要用法：所以我們都建議用法：建議用法由我們客家客家委員會來聽說：我可以講好老法：不是講一些其他語言：所以在名稱當中,我們可以選擇選擇比如說,剛才說的臺灣台語,臺灣的明南語、好老法\n有審問過嗎?有調查過嗎?自己的調查,我們沒有做文件調查,沒有啦但是我們在那裏,在該座的名錄上,該座的意見會反映出來那用在董事長講言反彈董事長嗎?在,我也是在所以我可以說\n因為我們都聽到很多基層的客家鄉親的聲音他們很擔心客語的傳承那行政院跟文化部這樣子的面面他們一直跟我們反映包含其實原住民也是一樣他說認為這個就是欺負弱勢對於弱勢的客家人、原住民\n這一部分 他們認為 如果這樣子去命名久而久之﹐會認為臺澎金馬的主流語言就是臺灣台語所以 要拜託我們客委會主委 要拜託拿出客家精神、人間精神要為我們 你是我們客委會的主委 你要為客家族群發聲我們今天不是打壓\n任何一個族群．不是打壓任何一個語言．但是我們是希望能夠堅持國家語言．各族群的平等平權．您會發出什麼動盪嗎?阿雄,沒有錯．就是不關於喀羅法、喀法．也許原住民的法．各種的法．就在臺灣的國家語言．也許是沒有問題的．所以也許平等．才可以在國家語言發出法律說．\n以最主要的目的所以在這邊拜託因為你是我們客委會的主委我希望我們客委會發展客家這個母語是非常重要的一環那如果用這個臺灣台語居然那麼多的客家鄉親有這種疑慮那我們客委會主委是我們客家鄉親的大家長你應該站在客家鄉親的立場要為客家鄉親來發聲所以這部分希望\n我們客家委員會主委一定要拿出港將的精神．針對我們客家族群的權益．一定要站出來為大家發聲．我希望所有的意見．我希望會準確地了結．他要撇分．我們最佳的方法．請我們那個．文化部李次長．好,請李次長\n理事長我剛剛聽我們楊崇英委員詢問到所以針對你說閩南語改臺灣台語你說其實你們行政單位也知道這樣做基本上會造成傷害對不對因為我剛剛有聽到我不是這樣我是說如果委員\n各界有這樣的反應有鄉親覺得這個命名有受到傷害的時候作為行政單位我們有那個責任要多做說明多做溝通那其實事實上今天會開這個會議其實就是因為很多我們的客家鄉親、原民一些比較弱勢的族群他們就提出那麼大的反彈所以今天才會針對這個會議來做討論\n我們是認為基本上現在以現行來講並沒有造成什麼樣的問題我不知道為什麼我們現在我們文化部要去操作這個意識形態要去撕裂族群破壞我們彼此之間的團結現在一直以來大家都很和諧我不知道我們文化部這樣做到底有什麼意義還是文化部找不到更有意義的事情來做嗎\n市長跟委員報告當然也是臺語團體臺語鄉親不斷地希望我們要在名稱上面給予臺語一個正式地位所以我們才去訂定所謂的書面建議用語那我問你你說因為堅持用臺灣台語把閩南話改成臺灣台語是因為你們調查結果的多數尊重使用者自稱對不對是的\n好 那我們同一個調查報告我們也看到那你們在調查國語之後講國語他們說稱為國語是使用者最多他們也認為國語是他們覺得最好的名稱那為什麼你們要把國語改成華語\n跟委員報告我們並沒有去變更國語或華語這個名詞不是你說閩南語改成臺灣台語是因為尊重使用者自稱嘛那我看到你們調查報告他們說稱為國語也是他們覺得最多最好為什麼你這個要改成華語\n所以我們沒有改成華語這個詞我們沒有任何的公文去要求行政單位將國語改成華語沒有還有好那針對福州話、閩東話、閩北話他們也說比講馬族語還多也就是說稱馬族語是少的可是為什麼你們又建議要把它改成馬族語\n這個部分是跟連江縣政府有做了一個溝通我們請連江縣政府告訴我們他們希望用什麼樣的語言來做自稱那你剛剛又說尊重尊重多數使用者認為尊重哪一個名稱是最好你說閩南語是因為說他用臺灣台語所以說他們說使用者自稱使用最多那一樣國語最多你要用華語那說福州話、閩東話、閩北話\n講說用這個來代表性的又最多你又把它改成馬族語所以我們是希望不要多重標準不要為了想做的事情為了自己圓一個謊去定一個標準說因為是這樣那別的你又不用這個標準同樣的事情不同的標準\n所以我們在這邊真的是希望 文化部找一些有意義的事情來做不要一直操作意識形態 撕裂族群 破壞團結現在現行大家都非常和諧 整個族群都相安無事\n為什麼要去造成族群的對立造成台灣民眾彼此之間為了這個語言的去爭鬥我覺得希望文化部針對這部分審慎評估來仔細來考量我們真的希望族群國家語言平等平權拜託拜託好 謝謝委員的指導 謝謝好 謝謝圖群級委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:26.279\n麻煩請我們谷主委好,谷主委主委,我請問你針對我們今天閩南語改台灣台語這部分文化部說他們的書面用語命名考量是要堅固不想排除在台灣語言之外和尊重各族群對語言的自稱\n\n00:27.259 --> 00:52.436\n那針對這部分他說他們有針對國人對語言的稱呼做了調查才把各種國家的語言定為現在公布的名稱那我想請教主委那我們客委會有沒有針對客家族群做調查詢問他們是否認為閩南語佔了臺語這個名稱之後有沒有讓他覺得自己被排除被擠壓\n\n00:53.867 --> 01:01.272\n我想這樣在名稱的部分在國土每天的名錄、檔案、國土的意見無窮用就不僅好路出窮好路出窮也不是鐵板一塊的地方也有無窮用的意見客家出窮什麼窮用的地方有無窮用的意見所以在這樣立場之下我們是尊重所有人對於講法做法其實在合理費內講\n\n01:22.504 --> 01:30.205\n因爲要不適合或堅持一定要用法：所以我們都建議用法：建議用法由我們客家客家委員會來聽說：我可以講好老法：不是講一些其他語言：所以在名稱當中,我們可以選擇選擇比如說,剛才說的臺灣台語,臺灣的明南語、好老法\n\n01:50.469 --> 01:56.916\n有審問過嗎?有調查過嗎?自己的調查,我們沒有做文件調查,沒有啦但是我們在那裏,在該座的名錄上,該座的意見會反映出來那用在董事長講言反彈董事長嗎?在,我也是在所以我可以說\n\n02:09.770 --> 02:29.096\n因為我們都聽到很多基層的客家鄉親的聲音他們很擔心客語的傳承那行政院跟文化部這樣子的面面他們一直跟我們反映包含其實原住民也是一樣他說認為這個就是欺負弱勢對於弱勢的客家人、原住民\n\n02:29.796 --> 02:52.970\n這一部分他們認為如果這樣子去命名久而久之﹐會認為臺澎金馬的主流語言就是臺灣台語所以要拜託我們客委會主委要拜託拿出客家精神、人間精神要為我們你是我們客委會的主委你要為客家族群發聲我們今天不是打壓\n\n02:54.071 --> 03:05.879\n任何一個族群．不是打壓任何一個語言．但是我們是希望能夠堅持國家語言．各族群的平等平權．您會發出什麼動盪嗎?阿雄,沒有錯．就是不關於喀羅法、喀法．也許原住民的法．各種的法．就在臺灣的國家語言．也許是沒有問題的．所以也許平等．才可以在國家語言發出法律說．\n\n03:23.231 --> 03:52.168\n以最主要的目的所以在這邊拜託因為你是我們客委會的主委我希望我們客委會發展客家這個母語是非常重要的一環那如果用這個臺灣台語居然那麼多的客家鄉親有這種疑慮那我們客委會主委是我們客家鄉親的大家長你應該站在客家鄉親的立場要為客家鄉親來發聲所以這部分希望\n\n03:52.648 --> 04:05.595\n我們客家委員會主委一定要拿出港將的精神．針對我們客家族群的權益．一定要站出來為大家發聲．我希望所有的意見．我希望會準確地了結．他要撇分．我們最佳的方法．請我們那個．文化部李次長．好,請李次長\n\n04:18.038 --> 04:38.004\n理事長我剛剛聽我們楊崇英委員詢問到所以針對你說閩南語改臺灣台語你說其實你們行政單位也知道這樣做基本上會造成傷害對不對因為我剛剛有聽到我不是這樣我是說如果委員\n\n04:38.844 --> 05:02.009\n各界有這樣的反應有鄉親覺得這個命名有受到傷害的時候作為行政單位我們有那個責任要多做說明多做溝通那其實事實上今天會開這個會議其實就是因為很多我們的客家鄉親、原民一些比較弱勢的族群他們就提出那麼大的反彈所以今天才會針對這個會議來做討論\n\n05:05.790 --> 05:32.241\n我們是認為基本上現在以現行來講並沒有造成什麼樣的問題我不知道為什麼我們現在我們文化部要去操作這個意識形態要去撕裂族群破壞我們彼此之間的團結現在一直以來大家都很和諧我不知道我們文化部這樣做到底有什麼意義還是文化部找不到更有意義的事情來做嗎\n\n05:32.861 --> 05:59.048\n市長跟委員報告當然也是臺語團體臺語鄉親不斷地希望我們要在名稱上面給予臺語一個正式地位所以我們才去訂定所謂的書面建議用語那我問你你說因為堅持用臺灣台語把閩南話改成臺灣台語是因為你們調查結果的多數尊重使用者自稱對不對是的\n\n05:59.508 --> 06:14.978\n好那我們同一個調查報告我們也看到那你們在調查國語之後講國語他們說稱為國語是使用者最多他們也認為國語是他們覺得最好的名稱那為什麼你們要把國語改成華語\n\n06:16.525 --> 06:27.299\n跟委員報告我們並沒有去變更國語或華語這個名詞不是你說閩南語改成臺灣台語是因為尊重使用者自稱嘛那我看到你們調查報告他們說稱為國語也是他們覺得最多最好為什麼你這個要改成華語\n\n06:33.146 --> 06:55.555\n所以我們沒有改成華語這個詞我們沒有任何的公文去要求行政單位將國語改成華語沒有還有好那針對福州話、閩東話、閩北話他們也說比講馬族語還多也就是說稱馬族語是少的可是為什麼你們又建議要把它改成馬族語\n\n06:56.928 --> 07:24.020\n這個部分是跟連江縣政府有做了一個溝通我們請連江縣政府告訴我們他們希望用什麼樣的語言來做自稱那你剛剛又說尊重尊重多數使用者認為尊重哪一個名稱是最好你說閩南語是因為說他用臺灣台語所以說他們說使用者自稱使用最多那一樣國語最多你要用華語那說福州話、閩東話、閩北話\n\n07:26.421 --> 07:45.172\n講說用這個來代表性的又最多你又把它改成馬族語所以我們是希望不要多重標準不要為了想做的事情為了自己圓一個謊去定一個標準說因為是這樣那別的你又不用這個標準同樣的事情不同的標準\n\n07:46.112 --> 08:01.384\n所以我們在這邊真的是希望文化部找一些有意義的事情來做不要一直操作意識形態撕裂族群破壞團結現在現行大家都非常和諧整個族群都相安無事\n\n08:02.004 --> 08:20.420\n為什麼要去造成族群的對立造成台灣民眾彼此之間為了這個語言的去爭鬥我覺得希望文化部針對這部分審慎評估來仔細來考量我們真的希望族群國家語言平等平權拜託拜託好謝謝委員的指導謝謝好謝謝圖群級委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":26.279,"text":"麻煩請我們谷主委好,谷主委主委,我請問你針對我們今天閩南語改台灣台語這部分文化部說他們的書面用語命名考量是要堅固不想排除在台灣語言之外和尊重各族群對語言的自稱"},{"start":27.259,"end":52.436,"text":"那針對這部分他說他們有針對國人對語言的稱呼做了調查才把各種國家的語言定為現在公布的名稱那我想請教主委那我們客委會有沒有針對客家族群做調查詢問他們是否認為閩南語佔了臺語這個名稱之後有沒有讓他覺得自己被排除被擠壓"},{"start":53.867,"end":61.272,"text":"我想這樣在名稱的部分在國土每天的名錄、檔案、國土的意見無窮用就不僅好路出窮好路出窮也不是鐵板一塊的地方也有無窮用的意見客家出窮什麼窮用的地方有無窮用的意見所以在這樣立場之下我們是尊重所有人對於講法做法其實在合理費內講"},{"start":82.504,"end":90.205,"text":"因爲要不適合或堅持一定要用法：所以我們都建議用法：建議用法由我們客家客家委員會來聽說：我可以講好老法：不是講一些其他語言：所以在名稱當中,我們可以選擇選擇比如說,剛才說的臺灣台語,臺灣的明南語、好老法"},{"start":110.469,"end":116.916,"text":"有審問過嗎?有調查過嗎?自己的調查,我們沒有做文件調查,沒有啦但是我們在那裏,在該座的名錄上,該座的意見會反映出來那用在董事長講言反彈董事長嗎?在,我也是在所以我可以說"},{"start":129.77,"end":149.096,"text":"因為我們都聽到很多基層的客家鄉親的聲音他們很擔心客語的傳承那行政院跟文化部這樣子的面面他們一直跟我們反映包含其實原住民也是一樣他說認為這個就是欺負弱勢對於弱勢的客家人、原住民"},{"start":149.796,"end":172.97,"text":"這一部分 他們認為 如果這樣子去命名久而久之﹐會認為臺澎金馬的主流語言就是臺灣台語所以 要拜託我們客委會主委 要拜託拿出客家精神、人間精神要為我們 你是我們客委會的主委 你要為客家族群發聲我們今天不是打壓"},{"start":174.071,"end":185.879,"text":"任何一個族群．不是打壓任何一個語言．但是我們是希望能夠堅持國家語言．各族群的平等平權．您會發出什麼動盪嗎?阿雄,沒有錯．就是不關於喀羅法、喀法．也許原住民的法．各種的法．就在臺灣的國家語言．也許是沒有問題的．所以也許平等．才可以在國家語言發出法律說．"},{"start":203.231,"end":232.168,"text":"以最主要的目的所以在這邊拜託因為你是我們客委會的主委我希望我們客委會發展客家這個母語是非常重要的一環那如果用這個臺灣台語居然那麼多的客家鄉親有這種疑慮那我們客委會主委是我們客家鄉親的大家長你應該站在客家鄉親的立場要為客家鄉親來發聲所以這部分希望"},{"start":232.648,"end":245.595,"text":"我們客家委員會主委一定要拿出港將的精神．針對我們客家族群的權益．一定要站出來為大家發聲．我希望所有的意見．我希望會準確地了結．他要撇分．我們最佳的方法．請我們那個．文化部李次長．好,請李次長"},{"start":258.038,"end":278.004,"text":"理事長我剛剛聽我們楊崇英委員詢問到所以針對你說閩南語改臺灣台語你說其實你們行政單位也知道這樣做基本上會造成傷害對不對因為我剛剛有聽到我不是這樣我是說如果委員"},{"start":278.844,"end":302.009,"text":"各界有這樣的反應有鄉親覺得這個命名有受到傷害的時候作為行政單位我們有那個責任要多做說明多做溝通那其實事實上今天會開這個會議其實就是因為很多我們的客家鄉親、原民一些比較弱勢的族群他們就提出那麼大的反彈所以今天才會針對這個會議來做討論"},{"start":305.79,"end":332.241,"text":"我們是認為基本上現在以現行來講並沒有造成什麼樣的問題我不知道為什麼我們現在我們文化部要去操作這個意識形態要去撕裂族群破壞我們彼此之間的團結現在一直以來大家都很和諧我不知道我們文化部這樣做到底有什麼意義還是文化部找不到更有意義的事情來做嗎"},{"start":332.861,"end":359.048,"text":"市長跟委員報告當然也是臺語團體臺語鄉親不斷地希望我們要在名稱上面給予臺語一個正式地位所以我們才去訂定所謂的書面建議用語那我問你你說因為堅持用臺灣台語把閩南話改成臺灣台語是因為你們調查結果的多數尊重使用者自稱對不對是的"},{"start":359.508,"end":374.978,"text":"好 那我們同一個調查報告我們也看到那你們在調查國語之後講國語他們說稱為國語是使用者最多他們也認為國語是他們覺得最好的名稱那為什麼你們要把國語改成華語"},{"start":376.525,"end":387.299,"text":"跟委員報告我們並沒有去變更國語或華語這個名詞不是你說閩南語改成臺灣台語是因為尊重使用者自稱嘛那我看到你們調查報告他們說稱為國語也是他們覺得最多最好為什麼你這個要改成華語"},{"start":393.146,"end":415.555,"text":"所以我們沒有改成華語這個詞我們沒有任何的公文去要求行政單位將國語改成華語沒有還有好那針對福州話、閩東話、閩北話他們也說比講馬族語還多也就是說稱馬族語是少的可是為什麼你們又建議要把它改成馬族語"},{"start":416.928,"end":444.02,"text":"這個部分是跟連江縣政府有做了一個溝通我們請連江縣政府告訴我們他們希望用什麼樣的語言來做自稱那你剛剛又說尊重尊重多數使用者認為尊重哪一個名稱是最好你說閩南語是因為說他用臺灣台語所以說他們說使用者自稱使用最多那一樣國語最多你要用華語那說福州話、閩東話、閩北話"},{"start":446.421,"end":465.172,"text":"講說用這個來代表性的又最多你又把它改成馬族語所以我們是希望不要多重標準不要為了想做的事情為了自己圓一個謊去定一個標準說因為是這樣那別的你又不用這個標準同樣的事情不同的標準"},{"start":466.112,"end":481.384,"text":"所以我們在這邊真的是希望 文化部找一些有意義的事情來做不要一直操作意識形態 撕裂族群 破壞團結現在現行大家都非常和諧 整個族群都相安無事"},{"start":482.004,"end":500.42,"text":"為什麼要去造成族群的對立造成台灣民眾彼此之間為了這個語言的去爭鬥我覺得希望文化部針對這部分審慎評估來仔細來考量我們真的希望族群國家語言平等平權拜託拜託好 謝謝委員的指導 謝謝好 謝謝圖群級委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:00:51 - 13:09:17","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155360,"gazette":{"lineno":1154,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（13時）謝謝主席，麻煩請古主委。"],["主席：好，古主委。"],["古主任委員秀妃：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：主委，我請問你，針對閩南語改為臺灣台語，文化部說書面用語的命名考量是要兼顧，不想排除在臺灣語言之外，尊重各族群對語言的自稱。他說他們針對國人對語言的稱呼做了調查，才把各種國家語言訂為現在公布的名稱。","我想請教主委，客委會有沒有針對客家族群調查，詢問他們閩南語占了「台語」這個名稱之後，有沒有讓他們覺得自己被排除、被擠壓？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我想這個名稱在很多媒體或是網路上有很多不一樣的意見，不單是Holo族群，Holo族群也不是鐵板一塊，他們裡面也有不一樣的意見，客家族群中也一樣有不一樣的意見，在這樣的立場底下，我們尊重所有的人對於這樣的說法、做法。站在客委會的立場，因為這不是唯一，或是堅持一定要用什麼，所以我們都是採取建議用法，建議的用法由我們客委會來訂定，講的是Holo話，而不是其他的語言，在名稱上我們可以選擇，比如說剛才說的臺灣台語、台語、臺灣的閩南語、Holo話這樣。"],["涂委員權吉：我是說，你們有問過嗎？你們有調查過嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：關於實際的調查，我們沒有做問卷調查，但我知道網路上有很多的意見反映。"],["涂委員權吉：這樣你就知道有很多客家人反彈了吧？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我知道、我知道。"],["涂委員權吉：你知道嘛。因為我聽到很多基層客家鄉親的聲音，他們很擔心客語的傳承，行政院跟文化部這樣的命名，他們一直跟我們反應，其實原住民也是一樣，他們認為這就是欺負弱勢，對於弱勢的客家人、原住民，如果這樣命名，久而久之會認為臺、澎、金、馬的主流語言就是「臺灣台語」。所以我也要拜託客委會主委，拜託你拿出客家精神、硬頸精神，你要為我們發聲，你是客委會的主委，你要為客家族群發聲。我們今天不是打壓任何一個族群、不是打壓任何一個語言，但我們希望能夠堅持國家語言，各族群的平等、平權，你有辦法做到嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我想沒有錯，不管是Holo語、客語或是原住民語，各種語言都是臺灣的國家語言，這是沒問題的。關於平等，站在國家語言發展法來說，是它最主要的目的……"],["涂委員權吉：所以我在這邊拜託你，因為你是客委會的主委，客委會發展客家母語是非常重要的一環。"],["古主任委員秀妃：同意、同意。"],["涂委員權吉：如果用「臺灣台語」，居然有那麼多的客家鄉親有疑慮，客委會主委是客家鄉親的大家長，你應該站在客家鄉親的立場，要為客家鄉親發聲，希望客委會主委一定要拿出硬頸精神，針對客家族群的權益，一定要站出來為大家發聲，可以嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：所有的意見我都會尊重並瞭解，這部分我們會以最大的開放度……"],["涂委員權吉：好，請文化部李次長。"],["主席：請李次長。"],["李次長靜慧：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：李次長，我剛剛有聽到楊瓊瓔委員的詢問，針對你說閩南語改為臺灣台語，你說其實行政單位也知道這樣做會造成傷害，對不對？因為我剛剛有聽到……"],["李次長靜慧：我不是這樣說，我是說，如果委員、各界有這樣反映，有鄉親覺得因為這個命名有受到傷害的時候，作為行政單位，我們有責任要多說明、多溝通。"],["涂委員權吉：好，事實上今天會開這個會議就是因為很多客家鄉親、原民等一些比較弱勢的族群提出那麼大的反彈，今天的會議才會針對這個來討論，基本上我們認為現行來講並沒有造成什麼樣的問題，我不知道為什麼現在文化部要去操作意識形態、要去撕裂族群，破壞我們彼此之間的團結？一直以來，大家都很和諧，我不知道文化部這樣做到底有什麼意義？還是文化部找不到更有意義的事情來做嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：不是這樣，跟委員報告，台語團體、台語鄉親不斷希望我們要在名稱上給予台語一個正式的地位，所以我們才去訂定所謂的書面建議用語。"],["涂委員權吉：好，那我問你，你堅持用「臺灣台語」，把閩南話改成臺灣台語，是因為你們調查的結果多數尊重使用者自稱，對不對？"],["李次長靜慧：是的。"],["涂委員權吉：好，我們在同一個調查報告也看到，你們調查國語之後，他們說稱為「國語」是使用者最多，也認為「國語」是他們覺得最好的名稱，那為什麼你們要把「國語」改成「華語」？"],["李次長靜慧：跟委員報告，我們並沒有變更「國語」或「華語」這個名詞……"],["涂委員權吉：不是，你說閩南語改成臺灣台語是因為尊重使用者自稱，我看到你們的調查報告，稱為「國語」也是他們覺得最多、最好的，為什麼你們要改成「華語」？"],["李次長靜慧：我們沒有改成「華語」這個詞，也沒有任何公文要求行政單位將「國語」改成「華語」，沒有。"],["涂委員權吉：好。針對「福州話」、「閩東話」、「閩北話」，他們也講得比「馬祖語」還多，也就是稱「馬祖語」是少的，可是為什麼你們又建議要把它改成「馬祖語」？"],["李次長靜慧：這部分跟連江縣政府做過溝通，我們請連江縣政府告訴我們，他們希望用什麼樣的語言來做自稱。"],["涂委員權吉：那你剛剛又說尊重多數使用者認為哪一個名稱最好，你說閩南語稱臺灣台語是因為使用者自稱、使用最多，那一樣「國語」也最多，你卻要用「華語」，那「福州話」、「閩東話」、「閩北話」的代表性最多，你又把它改成「馬祖語」。","我們希望不要多重標準，不要為了想做的事情，為了自己圓一個謊、訂一個標準，說因為是這樣才……那別的又不用這個標準；同樣的事情卻有不同的標準。"],["李次長靜慧：沒有。"],["涂委員權吉：我們真的希望文化部找一些有意義的事情來做，不要一直操作意識形態、撕裂族群、破壞團結，現在大家都非常和諧，整個族群都相安無事，為什麼要造成族群的對立，造成臺灣民眾彼此之間為了語言而去爭鬥？希望文化部針對這部分審慎評估、仔細考量。"],["李次長靜慧：好。"],["涂委員權吉：我們真的希望族群、國家語言平等、平權，拜託、拜託。"],["李次長靜慧：謝謝委員的指導，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝涂權吉委員。","接下來請張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員，張嘉郡委員不在。","請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","請高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員不在。","請徐富癸委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","speakers":["徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","張智倫","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","林倩綺","吳琪銘","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅智強","涂權吉","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","黃國昌","呂玉玲","蘇清泉","丁學忠","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育\n部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正\n「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00004"}}}