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0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,932 --> 00:00:04,404\n謝謝主席有請袁明慧主委請曾主委\n\n2\n00:00:09,676 --> 00:00:35,137\n委員好主委您好您是我過去的長官那我對您算是很熟悉了解我今天其實本來是要來講國家語言發展中心的設置那我等一下再問我在辦公室我發現今天這一場雖然園民會不是主場但是不分園和立委都還是很關注禁法補償的議題\n\n3\n00:00:36,678 --> 00:01:05,691\n那其實我在院會總質詢大概原民立委也都關心這一題那我不是不關心而是我覺得我過去三年前就開始質詢這個議題那很感謝大家的一個合作讓這樣的一個法案能夠修正通過那我覺得這一案就結束了可是我很憂心因為我們很多最近以來重要的原住民議題消失了\n\n4\n00:01:06,551 --> 00:01:27,188\n大家不斷的關注我認為這個假議題所以我很希望我們原民會能夠講清楚那這對我來講明明也沒有違法明明也發得出來但是為什麼會搞得大家這樣會聲會影、沸沸揚揚、鬼影重重\n\n5\n00:01:28,291 --> 00:01:46,660\n我就搞不清楚那上次主委您很棒在大家吵得沸沸揚揚的時候您有用你個人的臉書來跟大家做保證所以呢聲音就擬平了一些但是呢看起來大家還是繼續炒作\n\n6\n00:01:47,961 --> 00:02:08,605\n我是希望原民會能夠用公文一次說清楚：也不要讓地方的這些鄉鎮長不斷的來問像我自己我都覺得我好可憐我這幾個月到全國參加各種活動鄉運也好、豐年祭也好、收穫祭也好\n\n7\n00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:22,109\n大家都要我被迫要我表態耶我也很乾脆啊我都有錄影存證啊他們問我都說保證如果明年9月以後發不出來少一毛錢吳立華不選了主委您懂得我的決心嗎對我來講我們來看嘛這個我都三年前就開始質詢啦經法補償使用重發基金\n\n8\n00:02:38,564 --> 00:03:03,430\n當然合法我過去有問過三年前就問過為什麼合法因為重發基金的收支保管及運用辦法寫得很清楚限制原住民族利用原住民族土地回饋或補償支出這個法條是什麼時候修正出來的馬英九時代96年11月30因為這是辦法行政院修正通過\n\n9\n00:03:05,151 --> 00:03:30,000\n我們再來看一下到底合不合法這個公文我也問過我三年前就問過這個是主計總署發給原民會的公文寫得很清楚主計總署說循例維持公務預算及原民基金各辦負擔的方式辦理該基金如確有財務不敷在與協處\n\n10\n00:03:31,995 --> 00:03:57,949\n這個也是主計總署當時要開始發放禁法補償告訴你們的所以我就不理解這麼簡單一分鐘可以講完的事情難道不能發公文給大家嗎我倒是很想知道因為資料都在你們那邊但是我始終不敢質詢問這些問題因為我怕失焦我們都心知肚明\n\n11\n00:03:59,417 --> 00:04:18,987\n五點二萬筆我們的這些可憐的普羅大眾他只有零點二分有的人只有一公頃他們領多少錢但是你應該很清楚我做過原民處長接你的位置我看過有一個人是領一百二十二公頃欸而且我去查過不是原住民借名登記欸\n\n12\n00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:44,352\n這種事情我們原民會應該要擔負起來所以我希望說我就講到這裡我希望這個趕快擬平不要用那些亂七八糟的說法最難抗拒的說法就是兩分真八分假很多人善用話術也不是全部謊話\n\n13\n00:04:57,130 --> 00:05:10,362\n但是這種三分真七分假我們到底要怎麼樣去拆穿很麻煩但是我始終相信邪不勝正好嗎那我要關心一下那個文化部\n\n14\n00:05:16,748 --> 00:05:40,658\n文化部是我們的次長次長您好再給一分鐘就好因為我知道國家語言發展中心設置條例已經在6月就是行政院通過已經送立法院了雖然還沒有排審但是我有一些問題想要關心我第一個想要關心的就是按照這個設置條例的條文它有它的任務業務範圍\n\n15\n00:05:42,899 --> 00:05:58,393\n我們原民會我們之前也已經有一個原住民族語言研究發展基金會的設置條例我們也有它的業務範圍、它的任務那對照起來,講一句實在話,跌床駕屋啦所以我就是想關心第一個問題\n\n16\n00:06:00,890 --> 00:06:19,260\n這種疊墻家屋的情形．未來兩個單位要怎麼樣的來合作這邊跟委員做說明所以如果委員可以再回到上一頁的話我們可以清楚的看到這樣在語言的語料、史料收集這一部分我們有特別強調以後語發中心做的是跨語言\n\n17\n00:06:20,521 --> 00:06:32,844\n而不是單一語言：如果是單一語言：像原住民的42種語言的話：它仍然屬於原住民語言研究發展基金會去處理：可是這個語發中心會處理的：比如說整個漢語系統：或是南島語系系統：它是用一個跨語言的方式去處理它那像在跟這邊有提到說：所謂的推廣使用的時候：我們在語發中心的提出前是受託辦理：因為時間的關係：所以我順著要講的就是說\n\n18\n00:06:51,109 --> 00:07:09,217\n經費因為我希望未來中心的經費分配上會不會因為有原語會然後你們會減少比例因為我剛剛聽我們的次長您說的時候感覺上你們是按照語言別分開嘛那未來在經費配比上\n\n19\n00:07:12,459 --> 00:07:26,454\n這個中心的經費應該跟各個客委會或原民會原本的經費沒有干涉會另外獨立編列經費也會另外獨立分配給他們就由這個中心來執行啊這個就是我擔心的啊\n\n20\n00:07:28,039 --> 00:07:50,613\n又是跌床駕屋那意思就是說在我們文化部設置的國家語言發展中心是獨立又要一組原住民的人才在裡面嗎對所以這個部分我們在月底的語發大會裡面就希望能夠進一步討論這個就是我要先提醒的我不希望因為有了原語會文化部將來\n\n21\n00:07:52,414 --> 00:08:13,840\n會覺得反正原民會你們有你們的原語會我們的任務是分開的按照語言別的你們有你們的獨立的經費我們的經費是獨立的除非你也聘了一組原住民的語言專家進到我們的國家語言設置中心次長您了解我的意思嗎那最後第三個我關切的就是說我們只有看到研究典藏\n\n22\n00:08:16,002 --> 00:08:44,201\n任務沒有推廣發展但是語言附贈跟傳承才是我們設置這個中心的最重要任務所以我覺得我沒有看到推廣發展的部分都是在典藏典藏研究所以我希望目前草案看不到這樣相關的業務資訊那我希望說我們應該要加強語言環境的友善至少我舉一個簡單的例子就是今年有將近兩萬人去\n\n23\n00:08:45,862 --> 00:09:00,420\n自己回復族名但是無論去外交部的你會看到雖然我的身份證有族語跟我的那個並列但是外交部就是堅持用漢語拼音只保留他的漢名或者我們到戶政事務所\n\n24\n00:09:01,101 --> 00:09:19,828\n他的表單還是堅持只留他的漢字像這個都是語言發展設置中心應該要去關切觸及的一個範圍所以我在這個地方特別做這樣的提醒希望文化部在我們審查的時候一定要堅持同意嗎好謝謝市長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n932\t4404\t謝謝主席 有請袁明慧主委請曾主委\n9676\t35137\t委員好主委您好您是我過去的長官那我對您算是很熟悉了解我今天其實本來是要來講國家語言發展中心的設置那我等一下再問我在辦公室我發現今天這一場雖然園民會不是主場但是不分園和立委都還是很關注禁法補償的議題\n36678\t65691\t那其實我在院會總質詢大概 原民立委也都關心這一題那我不是不關心而是我覺得我過去三年前就開始質詢這個議題那很感謝大家的一個合作讓這樣的一個法案能夠修正通過那我覺得這一案就結束了可是我很憂心因為我們很多最近以來重要的原住民議題消失了\n66551\t87188\t大家不斷的關注我認為這個假議題所以我很希望我們原民會能夠講清楚那這對我來講明明也沒有違法明明也發得出來但是為什麼會搞得大家這樣會聲會影、沸沸揚揚、鬼影重重\n88291\t106660\t我就搞不清楚那上次主委您很棒在大家吵得沸沸揚揚的時候您有用你個人的臉書來跟大家做保證所以呢聲音就擬平了一些但是呢看起來大家還是繼續炒作\n107961\t128605\t我是希望原民會能夠用公文一次說清楚：也不要讓地方的這些鄉鎮長不斷的來問像我自己我都覺得我好可憐我這幾個月到全國參加各種活動鄉運也好、豐年祭也好、收穫祭也好\n129960\t142109\t大家都要我被迫 要我表態耶我也很乾脆啊 我都有錄影存證啊他們問我都說 保證如果明年9月以後發不出來 少一毛錢 吳立華不選了主委 您懂得我的決心嗎對我來講 我們來看嘛這個我都三年前就開始質詢啦經法補償使用重發基金\n158564\t183430\t當然合法我過去有問過三年前就問過為什麼合法因為重發基金的收支保管及運用辦法寫得很清楚限制原住民族利用原住民族土地回饋或補償支出這個法條是什麼時候修正出來的馬英九時代96年11月30因為這是辦法行政院修正通過\n185151\t210000\t我們再來看一下到底合不合法這個公文我也問過我三年前就問過這個是主計總署發給原民會的公文寫得很清楚主計總署說循例維持公務預算及原民基金各辦負擔的方式辦理該基金如確有財務不敷在與協處\n211995\t237949\t這個也是主計總署當時要開始發放禁法補償告訴你們的所以我就不理解這麼簡單一分鐘可以講完的事情難道不能發公文給大家嗎我倒是很想知道因為資料都在你們那邊但是我始終不敢質詢問這些問題因為我怕失焦我們都心知肚明\n239417\t258987\t五點二萬筆我們的這些可憐的普羅大眾他只有零點二分有的人只有一公頃他們領多少錢但是你應該很清楚我做過原民處長接你的位置我看過有一個人是領一百二十二公頃欸而且我去查過不是原住民借名登記欸\n268680\t284352\t這種事情我們原民會應該要擔負起來所以我希望說我就講到這裡我希望這個趕快擬平不要用那些亂七八糟的說法最難抗拒的說法就是兩分真八分假很多人善用話術也不是全部謊話\n297130\t310362\t但是這種三分真七分假我們到底要怎麼樣去拆穿很麻煩但是我始終相信邪不勝正好嗎那我要關心一下那個文化部\n316748\t340658\t文化部是我們的次長次長您好再給一分鐘就好因為我知道國家語言發展中心設置條例已經在6月就是行政院通過已經送立法院了雖然還沒有排審但是我有一些問題想要關心我第一個想要關心的就是按照這個設置條例的條文它有它的任務業務範圍\n342899\t358393\t我們原民會我們之前也已經有一個原住民族語言研究發展基金會的設置條例我們也有它的業務範圍、它的任務那對照起來,講一句實在話,跌床駕屋啦所以我就是想關心第一個問題\n360890\t379260\t這種疊墻家屋的情形．未來兩個單位要怎麼樣的來合作這邊跟委員做說明所以如果委員可以再回到上一頁的話我們可以清楚的看到這樣在語言的語料、史料收集這一部分我們有特別強調以後語發中心做的是跨語言\n380521\t392844\t而不是單一語言：如果是單一語言：像原住民的42種語言的話：它仍然屬於原住民語言研究發展基金會去處理：可是這個語發中心會處理的：比如說整個漢語系統：或是南島語系系統：它是用一個跨語言的方式去處理它那像在跟這邊有提到說：所謂的推廣使用的時候：我們在語發中心的提出前是受託辦理：因為時間的關係：所以我順著要講的就是說\n411109\t429217\t經費因為我希望未來中心的經費分配上會不會因為有原語會然後你們會減少比例因為我剛剛聽我們的次長您說的時候感覺上你們是按照語言別分開嘛那未來在經費配比上\n432459\t446454\t這個中心的經費應該跟各個客委會或原民會原本的經費沒有干涉會另外獨立編列經費也會另外獨立分配給他們就由這個中心來執行啊這個就是我擔心的啊\n448039\t470613\t又是跌床駕屋那意思就是說在我們文化部設置的國家語言發展中心是獨立又要一組原住民的人才在裡面嗎對 所以這個部分我們在月底的語發大會裡面就希望能夠進一步討論這個就是我要先提醒的我不希望因為有了原語會文化部將來\n472414\t493840\t會覺得反正原民會你們有你們的原語會我們的任務是分開的按照語言別的你們有你們的獨立的經費我們的經費是獨立的除非你也聘了一組原住民的語言專家進到我們的國家語言設置中心次長您了解我的意思嗎那最後第三個我關切的就是說我們只有看到研究典藏\n496002\t524201\t任務沒有推廣發展但是語言附贈跟傳承才是我們設置這個中心的最重要任務所以我覺得我沒有看到推廣發展的部分都是在典藏典藏研究所以我希望目前草案看不到這樣相關的業務資訊那我希望說我們應該要加強語言環境的友善至少我舉一個簡單的例子就是今年有將近兩萬人去\n525862\t540420\t自己回復族名但是無論去外交部的你會看到雖然我的身份證有族語跟我的那個並列但是外交部就是堅持用漢語拼音只保留他的漢名或者我們到戶政事務所\n541101\t559828\t他的表單還是堅持只留他的漢字像這個都是語言發展設置中心應該要去關切觸及的一個範圍所以我在這個地方特別做這樣的提醒希望文化部在我們審查的時候一定要堅持 同意嗎好 謝謝市長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請袁明慧主委請曾主委\n委員好主委您好您是我過去的長官那我對您算是很熟悉了解我今天其實本來是要來講國家語言發展中心的設置那我等一下再問我在辦公室我發現今天這一場雖然園民會不是主場但是不分園和立委都還是很關注禁法補償的議題\n那其實我在院會總質詢大概 原民立委也都關心這一題那我不是不關心而是我覺得我過去三年前就開始質詢這個議題那很感謝大家的一個合作讓這樣的一個法案能夠修正通過那我覺得這一案就結束了可是我很憂心因為我們很多最近以來重要的原住民議題消失了\n大家不斷的關注我認為這個假議題所以我很希望我們原民會能夠講清楚那這對我來講明明也沒有違法明明也發得出來但是為什麼會搞得大家這樣會聲會影、沸沸揚揚、鬼影重重\n我就搞不清楚那上次主委您很棒在大家吵得沸沸揚揚的時候您有用你個人的臉書來跟大家做保證所以呢聲音就擬平了一些但是呢看起來大家還是繼續炒作\n我是希望原民會能夠用公文一次說清楚：也不要讓地方的這些鄉鎮長不斷的來問像我自己我都覺得我好可憐我這幾個月到全國參加各種活動鄉運也好、豐年祭也好、收穫祭也好\n大家都要我被迫 要我表態耶我也很乾脆啊 我都有錄影存證啊他們問我都說 保證如果明年9月以後發不出來 少一毛錢 吳立華不選了主委 您懂得我的決心嗎對我來講 我們來看嘛這個我都三年前就開始質詢啦經法補償使用重發基金\n當然合法我過去有問過三年前就問過為什麼合法因為重發基金的收支保管及運用辦法寫得很清楚限制原住民族利用原住民族土地回饋或補償支出這個法條是什麼時候修正出來的馬英九時代96年11月30因為這是辦法行政院修正通過\n我們再來看一下到底合不合法這個公文我也問過我三年前就問過這個是主計總署發給原民會的公文寫得很清楚主計總署說循例維持公務預算及原民基金各辦負擔的方式辦理該基金如確有財務不敷在與協處\n這個也是主計總署當時要開始發放禁法補償告訴你們的所以我就不理解這麼簡單一分鐘可以講完的事情難道不能發公文給大家嗎我倒是很想知道因為資料都在你們那邊但是我始終不敢質詢問這些問題因為我怕失焦我們都心知肚明\n五點二萬筆我們的這些可憐的普羅大眾他只有零點二分有的人只有一公頃他們領多少錢但是你應該很清楚我做過原民處長接你的位置我看過有一個人是領一百二十二公頃欸而且我去查過不是原住民借名登記欸\n這種事情我們原民會應該要擔負起來所以我希望說我就講到這裡我希望這個趕快擬平不要用那些亂七八糟的說法最難抗拒的說法就是兩分真八分假很多人善用話術也不是全部謊話\n但是這種三分真七分假我們到底要怎麼樣去拆穿很麻煩但是我始終相信邪不勝正好嗎那我要關心一下那個文化部\n文化部是我們的次長次長您好再給一分鐘就好因為我知道國家語言發展中心設置條例已經在6月就是行政院通過已經送立法院了雖然還沒有排審但是我有一些問題想要關心我第一個想要關心的就是按照這個設置條例的條文它有它的任務業務範圍\n我們原民會我們之前也已經有一個原住民族語言研究發展基金會的設置條例我們也有它的業務範圍、它的任務那對照起來,講一句實在話,跌床駕屋啦所以我就是想關心第一個問題\n這種疊墻家屋的情形．未來兩個單位要怎麼樣的來合作這邊跟委員做說明所以如果委員可以再回到上一頁的話我們可以清楚的看到這樣在語言的語料、史料收集這一部分我們有特別強調以後語發中心做的是跨語言\n而不是單一語言：如果是單一語言：像原住民的42種語言的話：它仍然屬於原住民語言研究發展基金會去處理：可是這個語發中心會處理的：比如說整個漢語系統：或是南島語系系統：它是用一個跨語言的方式去處理它那像在跟這邊有提到說：所謂的推廣使用的時候：我們在語發中心的提出前是受託辦理：因為時間的關係：所以我順著要講的就是說\n經費因為我希望未來中心的經費分配上會不會因為有原語會然後你們會減少比例因為我剛剛聽我們的次長您說的時候感覺上你們是按照語言別分開嘛那未來在經費配比上\n這個中心的經費應該跟各個客委會或原民會原本的經費沒有干涉會另外獨立編列經費也會另外獨立分配給他們就由這個中心來執行啊這個就是我擔心的啊\n又是跌床駕屋那意思就是說在我們文化部設置的國家語言發展中心是獨立又要一組原住民的人才在裡面嗎對 所以這個部分我們在月底的語發大會裡面就希望能夠進一步討論這個就是我要先提醒的我不希望因為有了原語會文化部將來\n會覺得反正原民會你們有你們的原語會我們的任務是分開的按照語言別的你們有你們的獨立的經費我們的經費是獨立的除非你也聘了一組原住民的語言專家進到我們的國家語言設置中心次長您了解我的意思嗎那最後第三個我關切的就是說我們只有看到研究典藏\n任務沒有推廣發展但是語言附贈跟傳承才是我們設置這個中心的最重要任務所以我覺得我沒有看到推廣發展的部分都是在典藏典藏研究所以我希望目前草案看不到這樣相關的業務資訊那我希望說我們應該要加強語言環境的友善至少我舉一個簡單的例子就是今年有將近兩萬人去\n自己回復族名但是無論去外交部的你會看到雖然我的身份證有族語跟我的那個並列但是外交部就是堅持用漢語拼音只保留他的漢名或者我們到戶政事務所\n他的表單還是堅持只留他的漢字像這個都是語言發展設置中心應該要去關切觸及的一個範圍所以我在這個地方特別做這樣的提醒希望文化部在我們審查的時候一定要堅持 同意嗎好 謝謝市長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.932 --> 00:04.404\n謝謝主席有請袁明慧主委請曾主委\n\n00:09.676 --> 00:35.137\n委員好主委您好您是我過去的長官那我對您算是很熟悉了解我今天其實本來是要來講國家語言發展中心的設置那我等一下再問我在辦公室我發現今天這一場雖然園民會不是主場但是不分園和立委都還是很關注禁法補償的議題\n\n00:36.678 --> 01:05.691\n那其實我在院會總質詢大概原民立委也都關心這一題那我不是不關心而是我覺得我過去三年前就開始質詢這個議題那很感謝大家的一個合作讓這樣的一個法案能夠修正通過那我覺得這一案就結束了可是我很憂心因為我們很多最近以來重要的原住民議題消失了\n\n01:06.551 --> 01:27.188\n大家不斷的關注我認為這個假議題所以我很希望我們原民會能夠講清楚那這對我來講明明也沒有違法明明也發得出來但是為什麼會搞得大家這樣會聲會影、沸沸揚揚、鬼影重重\n\n01:28.291 --> 01:46.660\n我就搞不清楚那上次主委您很棒在大家吵得沸沸揚揚的時候您有用你個人的臉書來跟大家做保證所以呢聲音就擬平了一些但是呢看起來大家還是繼續炒作\n\n01:47.961 --> 02:08.605\n我是希望原民會能夠用公文一次說清楚：也不要讓地方的這些鄉鎮長不斷的來問像我自己我都覺得我好可憐我這幾個月到全國參加各種活動鄉運也好、豐年祭也好、收穫祭也好\n\n02:09.960 --> 02:22.109\n大家都要我被迫要我表態耶我也很乾脆啊我都有錄影存證啊他們問我都說保證如果明年9月以後發不出來少一毛錢吳立華不選了主委您懂得我的決心嗎對我來講我們來看嘛這個我都三年前就開始質詢啦經法補償使用重發基金\n\n02:38.564 --> 03:03.430\n當然合法我過去有問過三年前就問過為什麼合法因為重發基金的收支保管及運用辦法寫得很清楚限制原住民族利用原住民族土地回饋或補償支出這個法條是什麼時候修正出來的馬英九時代96年11月30因為這是辦法行政院修正通過\n\n03:05.151 --> 03:30.000\n我們再來看一下到底合不合法這個公文我也問過我三年前就問過這個是主計總署發給原民會的公文寫得很清楚主計總署說循例維持公務預算及原民基金各辦負擔的方式辦理該基金如確有財務不敷在與協處\n\n03:31.995 --> 03:57.949\n這個也是主計總署當時要開始發放禁法補償告訴你們的所以我就不理解這麼簡單一分鐘可以講完的事情難道不能發公文給大家嗎我倒是很想知道因為資料都在你們那邊但是我始終不敢質詢問這些問題因為我怕失焦我們都心知肚明\n\n03:59.417 --> 04:18.987\n五點二萬筆我們的這些可憐的普羅大眾他只有零點二分有的人只有一公頃他們領多少錢但是你應該很清楚我做過原民處長接你的位置我看過有一個人是領一百二十二公頃欸而且我去查過不是原住民借名登記欸\n\n04:28.680 --> 04:44.352\n這種事情我們原民會應該要擔負起來所以我希望說我就講到這裡我希望這個趕快擬平不要用那些亂七八糟的說法最難抗拒的說法就是兩分真八分假很多人善用話術也不是全部謊話\n\n04:57.130 --> 05:10.362\n但是這種三分真七分假我們到底要怎麼樣去拆穿很麻煩但是我始終相信邪不勝正好嗎那我要關心一下那個文化部\n\n05:16.748 --> 05:40.658\n文化部是我們的次長次長您好再給一分鐘就好因為我知道國家語言發展中心設置條例已經在6月就是行政院通過已經送立法院了雖然還沒有排審但是我有一些問題想要關心我第一個想要關心的就是按照這個設置條例的條文它有它的任務業務範圍\n\n05:42.899 --> 05:58.393\n我們原民會我們之前也已經有一個原住民族語言研究發展基金會的設置條例我們也有它的業務範圍、它的任務那對照起來,講一句實在話,跌床駕屋啦所以我就是想關心第一個問題\n\n06:00.890 --> 06:19.260\n這種疊墻家屋的情形．未來兩個單位要怎麼樣的來合作這邊跟委員做說明所以如果委員可以再回到上一頁的話我們可以清楚的看到這樣在語言的語料、史料收集這一部分我們有特別強調以後語發中心做的是跨語言\n\n06:20.521 --> 06:32.844\n而不是單一語言：如果是單一語言：像原住民的42種語言的話：它仍然屬於原住民語言研究發展基金會去處理：可是這個語發中心會處理的：比如說整個漢語系統：或是南島語系系統：它是用一個跨語言的方式去處理它那像在跟這邊有提到說：所謂的推廣使用的時候：我們在語發中心的提出前是受託辦理：因為時間的關係：所以我順著要講的就是說\n\n06:51.109 --> 07:09.217\n經費因為我希望未來中心的經費分配上會不會因為有原語會然後你們會減少比例因為我剛剛聽我們的次長您說的時候感覺上你們是按照語言別分開嘛那未來在經費配比上\n\n07:12.459 --> 07:26.454\n這個中心的經費應該跟各個客委會或原民會原本的經費沒有干涉會另外獨立編列經費也會另外獨立分配給他們就由這個中心來執行啊這個就是我擔心的啊\n\n07:28.039 --> 07:50.613\n又是跌床駕屋那意思就是說在我們文化部設置的國家語言發展中心是獨立又要一組原住民的人才在裡面嗎對所以這個部分我們在月底的語發大會裡面就希望能夠進一步討論這個就是我要先提醒的我不希望因為有了原語會文化部將來\n\n07:52.414 --> 08:13.840\n會覺得反正原民會你們有你們的原語會我們的任務是分開的按照語言別的你們有你們的獨立的經費我們的經費是獨立的除非你也聘了一組原住民的語言專家進到我們的國家語言設置中心次長您了解我的意思嗎那最後第三個我關切的就是說我們只有看到研究典藏\n\n08:16.002 --> 08:44.201\n任務沒有推廣發展但是語言附贈跟傳承才是我們設置這個中心的最重要任務所以我覺得我沒有看到推廣發展的部分都是在典藏典藏研究所以我希望目前草案看不到這樣相關的業務資訊那我希望說我們應該要加強語言環境的友善至少我舉一個簡單的例子就是今年有將近兩萬人去\n\n08:45.862 --> 09:00.420\n自己回復族名但是無論去外交部的你會看到雖然我的身份證有族語跟我的那個並列但是外交部就是堅持用漢語拼音只保留他的漢名或者我們到戶政事務所\n\n09:01.101 --> 09:19.828\n他的表單還是堅持只留他的漢字像這個都是語言發展設置中心應該要去關切觸及的一個範圍所以我在這個地方特別做這樣的提醒希望文化部在我們審查的時候一定要堅持同意嗎好謝謝市長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.932,"end":4.404,"text":"謝謝主席 有請袁明慧主委請曾主委"},{"start":9.676,"end":35.137,"text":"委員好主委您好您是我過去的長官那我對您算是很熟悉了解我今天其實本來是要來講國家語言發展中心的設置那我等一下再問我在辦公室我發現今天這一場雖然園民會不是主場但是不分園和立委都還是很關注禁法補償的議題"},{"start":36.678,"end":65.691,"text":"那其實我在院會總質詢大概 原民立委也都關心這一題那我不是不關心而是我覺得我過去三年前就開始質詢這個議題那很感謝大家的一個合作讓這樣的一個法案能夠修正通過那我覺得這一案就結束了可是我很憂心因為我們很多最近以來重要的原住民議題消失了"},{"start":66.551,"end":87.188,"text":"大家不斷的關注我認為這個假議題所以我很希望我們原民會能夠講清楚那這對我來講明明也沒有違法明明也發得出來但是為什麼會搞得大家這樣會聲會影、沸沸揚揚、鬼影重重"},{"start":88.291,"end":106.66,"text":"我就搞不清楚那上次主委您很棒在大家吵得沸沸揚揚的時候您有用你個人的臉書來跟大家做保證所以呢聲音就擬平了一些但是呢看起來大家還是繼續炒作"},{"start":107.961,"end":128.605,"text":"我是希望原民會能夠用公文一次說清楚：也不要讓地方的這些鄉鎮長不斷的來問像我自己我都覺得我好可憐我這幾個月到全國參加各種活動鄉運也好、豐年祭也好、收穫祭也好"},{"start":129.96,"end":142.109,"text":"大家都要我被迫 要我表態耶我也很乾脆啊 我都有錄影存證啊他們問我都說 保證如果明年9月以後發不出來 少一毛錢 吳立華不選了主委 您懂得我的決心嗎對我來講 我們來看嘛這個我都三年前就開始質詢啦經法補償使用重發基金"},{"start":158.564,"end":183.43,"text":"當然合法我過去有問過三年前就問過為什麼合法因為重發基金的收支保管及運用辦法寫得很清楚限制原住民族利用原住民族土地回饋或補償支出這個法條是什麼時候修正出來的馬英九時代96年11月30因為這是辦法行政院修正通過"},{"start":185.151,"end":210,"text":"我們再來看一下到底合不合法這個公文我也問過我三年前就問過這個是主計總署發給原民會的公文寫得很清楚主計總署說循例維持公務預算及原民基金各辦負擔的方式辦理該基金如確有財務不敷在與協處"},{"start":211.995,"end":237.949,"text":"這個也是主計總署當時要開始發放禁法補償告訴你們的所以我就不理解這麼簡單一分鐘可以講完的事情難道不能發公文給大家嗎我倒是很想知道因為資料都在你們那邊但是我始終不敢質詢問這些問題因為我怕失焦我們都心知肚明"},{"start":239.417,"end":258.987,"text":"五點二萬筆我們的這些可憐的普羅大眾他只有零點二分有的人只有一公頃他們領多少錢但是你應該很清楚我做過原民處長接你的位置我看過有一個人是領一百二十二公頃欸而且我去查過不是原住民借名登記欸"},{"start":268.68,"end":284.352,"text":"這種事情我們原民會應該要擔負起來所以我希望說我就講到這裡我希望這個趕快擬平不要用那些亂七八糟的說法最難抗拒的說法就是兩分真八分假很多人善用話術也不是全部謊話"},{"start":297.13,"end":310.362,"text":"但是這種三分真七分假我們到底要怎麼樣去拆穿很麻煩但是我始終相信邪不勝正好嗎那我要關心一下那個文化部"},{"start":316.748,"end":340.658,"text":"文化部是我們的次長次長您好再給一分鐘就好因為我知道國家語言發展中心設置條例已經在6月就是行政院通過已經送立法院了雖然還沒有排審但是我有一些問題想要關心我第一個想要關心的就是按照這個設置條例的條文它有它的任務業務範圍"},{"start":342.899,"end":358.393,"text":"我們原民會我們之前也已經有一個原住民族語言研究發展基金會的設置條例我們也有它的業務範圍、它的任務那對照起來,講一句實在話,跌床駕屋啦所以我就是想關心第一個問題"},{"start":360.89,"end":379.26,"text":"這種疊墻家屋的情形．未來兩個單位要怎麼樣的來合作這邊跟委員做說明所以如果委員可以再回到上一頁的話我們可以清楚的看到這樣在語言的語料、史料收集這一部分我們有特別強調以後語發中心做的是跨語言"},{"start":380.521,"end":392.844,"text":"而不是單一語言：如果是單一語言：像原住民的42種語言的話：它仍然屬於原住民語言研究發展基金會去處理：可是這個語發中心會處理的：比如說整個漢語系統：或是南島語系系統：它是用一個跨語言的方式去處理它那像在跟這邊有提到說：所謂的推廣使用的時候：我們在語發中心的提出前是受託辦理：因為時間的關係：所以我順著要講的就是說"},{"start":411.109,"end":429.217,"text":"經費因為我希望未來中心的經費分配上會不會因為有原語會然後你們會減少比例因為我剛剛聽我們的次長您說的時候感覺上你們是按照語言別分開嘛那未來在經費配比上"},{"start":432.459,"end":446.454,"text":"這個中心的經費應該跟各個客委會或原民會原本的經費沒有干涉會另外獨立編列經費也會另外獨立分配給他們就由這個中心來執行啊這個就是我擔心的啊"},{"start":448.039,"end":470.613,"text":"又是跌床駕屋那意思就是說在我們文化部設置的國家語言發展中心是獨立又要一組原住民的人才在裡面嗎對 所以這個部分我們在月底的語發大會裡面就希望能夠進一步討論這個就是我要先提醒的我不希望因為有了原語會文化部將來"},{"start":472.414,"end":493.84,"text":"會覺得反正原民會你們有你們的原語會我們的任務是分開的按照語言別的你們有你們的獨立的經費我們的經費是獨立的除非你也聘了一組原住民的語言專家進到我們的國家語言設置中心次長您了解我的意思嗎那最後第三個我關切的就是說我們只有看到研究典藏"},{"start":496.002,"end":524.201,"text":"任務沒有推廣發展但是語言附贈跟傳承才是我們設置這個中心的最重要任務所以我覺得我沒有看到推廣發展的部分都是在典藏典藏研究所以我希望目前草案看不到這樣相關的業務資訊那我希望說我們應該要加強語言環境的友善至少我舉一個簡單的例子就是今年有將近兩萬人去"},{"start":525.862,"end":540.42,"text":"自己回復族名但是無論去外交部的你會看到雖然我的身份證有族語跟我的那個並列但是外交部就是堅持用漢語拼音只保留他的漢名或者我們到戶政事務所"},{"start":541.101,"end":559.828,"text":"他的表單還是堅持只留他的漢字像這個都是語言發展設置中心應該要去關切觸及的一個範圍所以我在這個地方特別做這樣的提醒希望文化部在我們審查的時候一定要堅持 同意嗎好 謝謝市長 謝謝主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:16:42 - 13:26:04","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155362,"gazette":{"lineno":1222,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（13時16分）謝謝主席，有請原民會主委。"],["主席：請曾主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委您好，您是我過去的長官，我對您算是很熟悉、瞭解，我今天本來是要講國家語言發展中心的設置，那我等一下再問。","我在辦公室發現，今天這一場雖然原民會不是主場，但不分原、漢立委都還是很關注禁伐補償的議題，其實我在院會總質詢，原民立委也都關心這一題，我不是不關心，而是我3年前就開始質詢這個議題，很感謝大家的合作，讓這樣的法案能夠修正通過，我覺得這一案就結束了。可是我很憂心，因為最近很多重要的原住民議題消失了，大家不斷的關注我認為的這個假議題，所以我很希望原民會能夠講清楚，對我來講明明沒有違法，明明也發得出來，但是為什麼會搞得大家這樣繪聲繪影、沸沸揚揚、鬼影幢幢，我就搞不清楚。","上次主委很棒，在大家吵得沸沸揚揚的時候，您有用你個人的臉書來跟大家保證，所以聲音就弭平了一些，但看起來大家還是繼續炒作，我希望原民會能夠用公文一次說清楚，不要讓一些地方的鄉鎮首長不斷的來問。我都覺得我自己好可憐，我這幾個月到全國參加各種活動，鄉運也好、豐年祭也好、收穫祭也好，大家都要我表態，我也很乾脆，我都有錄影存證，他們問我，我都說：保證，如果明年9月以後發不出來，少一毛錢，伍麗華不選了。主委，您懂得我的決心嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：知道。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對我來講，我們來看嘛！我3年前就開始質詢了，禁伐補償使用綜發基金當然合法啊！我過去也問過，我3年前就問過啊！為什麼合法？因為綜發基金收支保管及運用辦法寫得很清楚，限制原住民族利用原住民族土地回饋或補償支出，這個法條是什麼時候修正的？馬英九時代，96年11月30日，因為這是辦法，行政院修正通過。","我們再來看一下到底合不合法，這個公文我也問過，我3年前就問過，這是主計總處發給原民會的公文，寫得很清楚，主計總處說循例維持公務預算及原民基金各半負擔的方式辦理，該基金如確有財務不敷，再予協處。這個也是主計總處當時要開始發放禁伐補償的時候告訴你們的，所以我就不理解這麼簡單、一分鐘可以講完的事情，難道不能發公文給大家嗎？我倒是很想知道，因為資料都在你們那邊，但是我始終不敢質詢問這些問題，因為我怕失焦，我們都心知肚明，5.2萬筆，這些可憐的普羅大眾，他只有0.2分，有的人只有1公頃，他能領多少錢？但是你應該很清楚，我做過原民處長，接你的位置，我看過有一個人是領122公頃，而且我去查過，不是原住民卻借名登記耶！這種事情原民會應該要擔負起來。我就講到這裡，我希望這個趕快弭平，不要用那些亂七八糟的說法。最難抗拒的說法就是兩分真八分假，很多人善用話術，也不是全部謊話，但是這種三分真七分假，我們到底要怎麼樣去拆穿？很麻煩，但是我始終相信邪不勝正，好嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我要關心一下文化部，次長您好。請主席再給1分鐘就好。我知道國家語言發展中心設置條例行政院已經在6月通過，目前已經送立法院了，雖然還沒有排審，但是我有一些問題想要關心。我第一個想要關心的是，按照這個設置條例的條文，它有它的任務及業務範圍，而原民會之前已經有一個原住民族語言研究發展基金會設置條例，它也有它的業務範圍、它的任務，對照起來，講一句實在話就是疊床架屋，所以我就是想關心第一個問題，這種疊床架屋的情形，未來兩個單位要怎麼樣來合作？"],["李次長靜慧：這邊跟委員說明，如果委員可以再回到上一頁的話，我們可以清楚的看到在語言的語料、史料蒐集這一部分，我們有特別強調以後語發中心做的是跨語言，而不是單一語言。如果是單一語言，像原住民的42種語言的話，它仍然屬於原住民語言研究發展基金會去處理，可是這個語發中心會處理的，譬如說整個漢語系統，或是南島語系系統，它是用一個跨語言的方式去處理。像這邊有提到所謂的推廣使用的時候，語發中心基金會是受託辦理，並不是主動辦理。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝，因為時間的關係，我順著要講的就是經費，我擔心未來中心的經費分配上會不會因為有原語會，然後你們會減少比例？因為我剛剛聽次長說的時候，感覺上你們是按照語言別分開，未來在經費配比上，會對我們原語……"],["李次長靜慧：這個中心的經費應該跟客委會或原民會原本的經費沒有干涉，會另外獨立編列經費。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：也會另外獨立分配給他們？"],["李次長靜慧：就由這個中心來執行啊！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：這個就是我擔心的啊！又是疊床架屋，那意思就是說在文化部設置的國家語言發展中心是獨立又要一組原住民的人才在裡面嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：針對這個部分，我們在月底的語發大會裡面希望能夠進一步討論。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：這個就是我要先提醒的，我不希望因為有了原語會，文化部將來會覺得反正原民會有你們的原語會，我們的任務是分開的，按照語言別，你們有你們獨立的經費，我們的經費是獨立的，除非你也聘了一組原住民的語言專家進到我們的國家語言設置中心。次長，您了解我的意思嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：我知道。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：最後第三個我關切的是，我們只有看到研究、典藏的任務，卻沒有推廣、發展。其實語言復振跟傳承才是我們設置這個中心最重要的任務，但是我覺得我沒有看到推廣、發展的部分，都是在典藏、研究。目前草案看不到這樣相關的業務資訊，我認為我們應該要加強語言環境的友善。我舉一個簡單的例子，今年有將近兩萬人去回復自己的族名，去外交部你會看到雖然我的身分證有族語跟我的漢名並列，外交部就是堅持用漢語拼音，只保留他的漢名；或者我們到戶政事務所，它的表單還是堅持只留他的漢字。像這個都是語言發展設置中心應該要去關切、觸及的範圍，所以我在這裡特別做這樣的提醒，希望文化部在我們審查的時候一定要堅持，同意嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：了解，謝謝委員的指導。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝次長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員。","接下來請邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員，邱志偉委員不在。","何欣純委員、何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","speakers":["徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","張智倫","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","林倩綺","吳琪銘","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅智強","涂權吉","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","黃國昌","呂玉玲","蘇清泉","丁學忠","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育\n部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正\n「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00004"}}}