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0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 133.654, \"end\": 133.754, \"score\": 0.62}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 133.754, \"end\": 133.854, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 133.854, \"end\": 133.874, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 134.974, \"end\": 163.277, \"text\": \"臺語本來大家都講臺語但是臺語是什麼的簡稱臺語是臺灣米蘭語的簡稱可是你今天是把臺灣米蘭語的簡稱之後然後你又在前面再加入臺灣兩個字變成是臺灣台語這樣就變成是臺語它就是一個專有名詞那專有名詞不就代表是說會讓大家就誤認為是說只有臺語代表整個臺灣上面2350萬人所講的語言那這樣是不是就無形當中就把我們的客語就把我們的原住民的語言給忽視了呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 134.974, \"end\": 135.215, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 135.215, \"end\": 135.595, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 135.595, \"end\": 135.775, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 135.775, \"end\": 136.015, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 136.015, \"end\": 136.135, 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282.891, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 282.891, \"end\": 283.031, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 283.031, \"end\": 283.891, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"詞\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 283.891, \"end\": 284.191, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 284.191, \"end\": 284.351, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 284.351, \"end\": 284.711, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 284.711, \"end\": 285.192, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 285.192, \"end\": 285.312, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 285.312, \"end\": 285.512, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 285.512, \"end\": 285.932, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"友\", \"start\": 285.932, \"end\": 286.072, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 286.072, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 288.974, \"end\": 289.134, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 289.134, \"end\": 289.314, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 289.314, \"end\": 289.494, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 289.494, \"end\": 289.674, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 289.674, \"end\": 289.694, \"score\": 0.959}]}, {\"start\": 290.645, \"end\": 302.494, \"text\": \"英語是這樣說的,就屬於維尼語言：主委你是要本席也帶上這個翻譯還是說：我其實是聽不懂客語的,不好意思用國語好不好,還是華語\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"英\", \"start\": 290.645, \"end\": 291.006, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 291.006, \"end\": 291.246, \"score\": 0.719}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 291.246, \"end\": 292.267, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 292.267, \"end\": 293.407, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 293.407, \"end\": 294.028, 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 536.578, \"end\": 536.738, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 536.738, \"end\": 536.898, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 536.898, \"end\": 537.038, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 537.038, \"end\": 537.218, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 537.218, \"end\": 537.298, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"筆\"}, {\"word\": \"抹\", \"start\": 537.298, \"end\": 537.318, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"殺\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,679 --> 00:00:24,148\n主席謝謝是不是主席可以請文化部次長還有我們客委會跟園民會的主委請李次長、谷主委還有曾主委李次長我先請教因為今天文化部次長表示臺灣台語沒有侵犯臺灣其他語言並存的地位的意思\n\n2\n00:00:24,673 --> 00:00:43,375\n但看到教育部把這個閩南語語言認證變成是臺灣台語然後又看到說監察委員要調查各大車站內臺語廣播腔調不一致跟發音錯誤的問題我們想要請教一下這代表什麼代表現在是臺灣台語只容許一種臺灣台語的發音存在嗎\n\n3\n00:00:45,399 --> 00:00:59,471\n監察院的這個調查並不是文化部這邊去投訴所以這我們也尊重監察院、監察委員他們的職責可是對文化部來講我們沒有要推動所謂的單一的腔調\n\n4\n00:01:01,112 --> 00:01:27,762\n沒有推動台語腔調因為各地方的腔調其實也是我們所謂的臺語的優美之處或者說特色之處像我來自我的老家在南投我一聽到有一些是大公這個台語的時候我就一聽我就知道說他應該就是從中部過來那當然問題在於是說在保存臺語文化的一個部分現在把它證明變成是臺灣台語到底有沒有尊重到我們臺灣其他的語言\n\n5\n00:01:28,402 --> 00:01:52,189\n包括說客語包括我們的原住民很多的語言這也是大家會大家會覺得奇怪的地方啊是跟委員報告因為語言的名稱的部分我們是依照國際的慣例或者是國際組織來講語言的名稱由使用該語言的人他們自稱為習慣好所以我們經過調查\n\n6\n00:01:54,009 --> 00:02:13,874\n使用台語的族群他們慣用有85%的人慣用台語這個詞來自稱他們的語言所以我們在建議的書面用語上就把這個名稱放下去可是在口語上不論是大家習慣用什麼樣的方式來自稱這個我們都尊重這沒有問題啊\n\n7\n00:02:14,974 --> 00:02:43,277\n臺語本來大家都講臺語但是臺語是什麼的簡稱臺語是臺灣米蘭語的簡稱可是你今天是把臺灣米蘭語的簡稱之後然後你又在前面再加入臺灣兩個字變成是臺灣台語這樣就變成是臺語它就是一個專有名詞那專有名詞不就代表是說會讓大家就誤認為是說只有臺語代表整個臺灣上面2350萬人所講的語言那這樣是不是就無形當中就把我們的客語就把我們的原住民的語言給忽視了呢\n\n8\n00:02:43,937 --> 00:03:13,101\n而且更重要你剛有提到沒有這意思可是外界就會有這樣的狀況啊所以我們需要多加說明市長那我就請教你剛講的是說這個是我們共同使用語言的狀況我也都是用臺語啊但是我認知的臺語就是臺灣米蘭語然後就是韓國我們所使用的一個範圍嘛那如果要用臺灣台語請教今天有一個外國人來到臺灣他想要問欸你們現在講的語言是什麼那我請教臺灣台語的英文要怎麼辦\n\n9\n00:03:14,453 --> 00:03:30,458\n臺灣台語臺灣台語是的但如果說是你要怎麼解釋呢就台語是一個語言的名稱這個名稱就叫台語就像我們對很多任何一個物品你給它一個名稱以後它就是一個專有名詞\n\n10\n00:03:31,260 --> 00:03:59,182\n所以它現在還是變成是你會變成是它是英去翻這樣的意思你就是創一個新的詞是的對不對我們就不用所謂的以前可能會用Taiwanese來代表台語可是在英文稱呼上面其實文化部有客尊一個希望能夠尊重國家語言所以我們在英文名稱上就很清楚的標示就是台語所以這樣子你就是在創另外一個新的名詞但這樣新的名詞是不是就讓外國人有可能誤會\n\n11\n00:04:00,883 --> 00:04:09,488\n臺灣上這塊土地上大家講的語言會沒有其他的語言來我再請教一下我們的客戶會主委主委剛聽這樣子的講法我想雖然你們今天上午都已經講過就互相尊重了但說實在話\n\n12\n00:04:24,501 --> 00:04:49,694\n因為我的選區不管是淡水、山芝也有很多的客家鄉親甚至之前新北市有差不多2萬的客家鄉親其實是從淡水這邊來做一個發跡的所以我們也想問如果說今天臺灣台語它這樣確立了那這樣子臺語就變成是一個專有名詞那會無形當中會讓其他的國際友人也會認為是說臺灣這塊土地上面好像沒有其他的語言存在\n\n13\n00:04:50,645 --> 00:05:02,494\n英語是這樣說的,就屬於維尼語言：主委你是要本席也帶上這個翻譯還是說：我其實是聽不懂客語的,不好意思用國語好不好,還是華語\n\n14\n00:05:08,319 --> 00:05:28,416\n包括客語、原住民語、臺語這個都是國家語言那現在這個書面上呢它是優先建議,它只是建議所以我們在客委會來說並沒有一定要使用這個或那個那就客家人的立場來說稱呼臺語或閩南語都叫做Holo法\n\n15\n00:05:33,001 --> 00:05:47,797\n所以我們是用我們的主體我們由我們的主體來說他稱他稱這個我現在講的是說文化部用這樣子的定義以你站在客委會主委的一個角度來講有沒有客家鄉親跟你反映\n\n16\n00:05:48,197 --> 00:06:11,603\n有那客家鄉親跟你反映你怎麼做是客家鄉親那個時候的反映我們建議說那我們再請文化部一起再來開國家語言的會議增加了三場的客語的會議客家語言的會議所以在這個會議當中大家有充分的在討論當然那文化部有接受你的建議嗎\n\n17\n00:06:13,583 --> 00:06:32,810\n應該是這麼說啦我又在這個階段其實我們是尊重每一個人的每一個族群的說法那這樣子才有可能展現出我們多元包容的這個特質這個也是台灣很美好很重要的一個特質因為不同嘛\n\n18\n00:06:33,450 --> 00:06:51,857\n主委就是因為本席尊重多元包容的特質也因此才會覺得說為什麼本來無疑是何處惹塵來突然間文化部要在今年我不知道是不是滿足某些人的政治意識形態這個你也不用回答啦這個你也不用幫忙文化部回答啦但我意思是說\n\n19\n00:06:52,637 --> 00:07:13,268\n不知道是否滿足某些人的特定政治意識形態：也因此突然間要做這樣的一個改名的動作變成是臺灣台語好像獨尊了之後反而造成我們其他語言的一個部分那當然原住民委員會的主委你有沒有反應我們的族人有沒有跟你講是說如果臺灣台語這樣定下來的話好像會獨尊一方\n\n20\n00:07:14,195 --> 00:07:38,621\n我們是都尊重啦就是這次我們都尊重啦我不是說都尊重我知道你們今天已經大帽子扣下來我相信你們兩個委員會說實在話啦本身在中央部會也是比較弱勢的委員會啦所以你們也許也不敢有意見啦但我現在問的是你們的族人我現在給你個機會讓你在國會殿堂上幫你們族人講話\n\n21\n00:07:40,588 --> 00:08:09,660\n連這樣子都不敢幫族人講話還是表達你們族人的心聲族人聽到說要變台灣台語的時候都沒有任何意見族人的心聲是因為我們自己就稱自己是原住民跟我們就尊重台語他怎麼講就怎麼樣來尊重啊所以今天講台灣台語他可能喊瓜了就變成是好像台灣在台灣是講台語的那我們原住民的話反而變成是比較沒有被重視到了我們不會有這樣感覺的\n\n22\n00:08:10,714 --> 00:08:35,939\n就是原住民本來就是單獨的是一個原住民那尊重其他的族群啊?對,說實在話本席也有原住民的朋友也有原住民的親戚我覺得在國會殿堂上面還是要幫各族群為什麼要成立客委會為什麼要成立原住民委員會還是要為特定的委員會的人士來做發聲\n\n23\n00:08:37,557 --> 00:08:57,318\n不是說一個政治意識形態可以把我們台灣變成是一言堂如果說台灣真的變一言堂的話我覺得這樣子會非常可悲台灣的美、台灣的好就是多元、包容、文化、特色而不是政治意識形態掛帥把我們過去認知的全部都一筆抹殺謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2679\t24148\t主席謝謝是不是主席可以請文化部次長還有我們客委會跟園民會的主委請李次長、谷主委還有曾主委李次長我先請教因為今天文化部次長表示臺灣台語沒有侵犯臺灣其他語言並存的地位的意思\n24673\t43375\t但看到教育部把這個閩南語語言認證變成是臺灣台語然後又看到說監察委員要調查各大車站內臺語廣播腔調不一致跟發音錯誤的問題我們想要請教一下這代表什麼代表現在是臺灣台語只容許一種臺灣台語的發音存在嗎\n45399\t59471\t監察院的這個調查並不是文化部這邊去投訴所以這我們也尊重監察院、監察委員他們的職責可是對文化部來講我們沒有要推動所謂的單一的腔調\n61112\t87762\t沒有推動台語腔調因為各地方的腔調其實也是我們所謂的臺語的優美之處或者說特色之處像我來自我的老家在南投我一聽到有一些是大公這個台語的時候我就一聽我就知道說他應該就是從中部過來那當然問題在於是說在保存臺語文化的一個部分現在把它證明變成是臺灣台語到底有沒有尊重到我們臺灣其他的語言\n88402\t112189\t包括說客語包括我們的原住民很多的語言這也是大家會大家會覺得奇怪的地方啊是跟委員報告因為語言的名稱的部分我們是依照國際的慣例或者是國際組織來講語言的名稱由使用該語言的人他們自稱為習慣好所以我們經過調查\n114009\t133874\t使用台語的族群他們慣用有85%的人慣用台語這個詞來自稱他們的語言所以我們在建議的書面用語上就把這個名稱放下去可是在口語上不論是大家習慣用什麼樣的方式來自稱這個我們都尊重 這沒有問題啊\n134974\t163277\t臺語本來大家都講臺語但是臺語是什麼的簡稱臺語是臺灣米蘭語的簡稱可是你今天是把臺灣米蘭語的簡稱之後然後你又在前面再加入臺灣兩個字變成是臺灣台語這樣就變成是臺語它就是一個專有名詞那專有名詞不就代表是說會讓大家就誤認為是說只有臺語代表整個臺灣上面2350萬人所講的語言那這樣是不是就無形當中就把我們的客語就把我們的原住民的語言給忽視了呢\n163937\t193101\t而且更重要你剛有提到沒有這意思可是外界就會有這樣的狀況啊所以我們需要多加說明市長那我就請教你剛講的是說這個是我們共同使用語言的狀況我也都是用臺語啊但是我認知的臺語就是臺灣米蘭語然後就是韓國我們所使用的一個範圍嘛那如果要用臺灣台語請教今天有一個外國人來到臺灣他想要問欸你們現在講的語言是什麼那我請教臺灣台語的英文要怎麼辦\n194453\t210458\t臺灣台語臺灣台語是的但如果說是你要怎麼解釋呢就台語是一個語言的名稱這個名稱就叫台語就像我們對很多任何一個物品你給它一個名稱以後它就是一個專有名詞\n211260\t239182\t所以它現在還是變成是你會變成是它是英去翻這樣的意思你就是創一個新的詞是的 對不對我們就不用所謂的以前可能會用Taiwanese來代表台語可是在英文稱呼上面其實文化部有客尊一個希望能夠尊重國家語言所以我們在英文名稱上就很清楚的標示就是台語所以這樣子你就是在創另外一個新的名詞但這樣新的名詞是不是就讓外國人有可能誤會\n240883\t249488\t臺灣上這塊土地上大家講的語言會沒有其他的語言來我再請教一下我們的客戶會主委主委剛聽這樣子的講法我想雖然你們今天上午都已經講過就互相尊重了但說實在話\n264501\t289694\t因為我的選區不管是淡水、山芝也有很多的客家鄉親甚至之前新北市有差不多2萬的客家鄉親其實是從淡水這邊來做一個發跡的所以我們也想問如果說今天臺灣台語它這樣確立了那這樣子臺語就變成是一個專有名詞那會無形當中會讓其他的國際友人也會認為是說臺灣這塊土地上面好像沒有其他的語言存在\n290645\t302494\t英語是這樣說的,就屬於維尼語言：主委你是要本席也帶上這個翻譯還是說：我其實是聽不懂客語的,不好意思用國語好不好,還是華語\n308319\t328416\t包括客語、原住民語、臺語這個都是國家語言那現在這個書面上呢它是優先建議,它只是建議所以我們在客委會來說並沒有一定要使用這個或那個那就客家人的立場來說稱呼臺語或閩南語都叫做Holo法\n333001\t347797\t所以我們是用我們的主體我們由我們的主體來說他稱他稱這個我現在講的是說文化部用這樣子的定義以你站在客委會主委的一個角度來講有沒有客家鄉親跟你反映\n348197\t371603\t有 那客家鄉親跟你反映你怎麼做是 客家鄉親那個時候的反映我們建議說那我們再請文化部一起再來開國家語言的會議增加了三場的客語的會議 客家語言的會議所以在這個會議當中大家有充分的在討論當然 那文化部有接受你的建議嗎\n373583\t392810\t應該是這麼說啦我又在這個階段其實我們是尊重每一個人的每一個族群的說法那這樣子才有可能展現出我們多元包容的這個特質這個也是台灣很美好很重要的一個特質因為不同嘛\n393450\t411857\t主委就是因為本席尊重多元包容的特質也因此才會覺得說為什麼本來無疑是何處惹塵來突然間文化部要在今年我不知道是不是滿足某些人的政治意識形態這個你也不用回答啦這個你也不用幫忙文化部回答啦但我意思是說\n412637\t433268\t不知道是否滿足某些人的特定政治意識形態： 也因此突然間要做這樣的一個改名的動作 變成是臺灣台語好像獨尊了之後反而造成我們其他語言的一個部分那當然 原住民委員會的主委 你有沒有反應我們的族人有沒有跟你講是說 如果臺灣台語這樣定下來的話好像會獨尊一方\n434195\t458621\t我們是都尊重啦就是這次我們都尊重啦我不是說都尊重我知道你們今天已經大帽子扣下來我相信你們兩個委員會說實在話啦本身在中央部會也是比較弱勢的委員會啦所以你們也許也不敢有意見啦但我現在問的是你們的族人我現在給你個機會讓你在國會殿堂上幫你們族人講話\n460588\t489660\t連這樣子都不敢幫族人講話還是表達你們族人的心聲族人聽到說要變台灣台語的時候都沒有任何意見族人的心聲是因為我們自己就稱自己是原住民跟我們就尊重台語他怎麼講就怎麼樣來尊重啊所以今天講台灣台語他可能喊瓜了就變成是好像台灣在台灣是講台語的那我們原住民的話反而變成是比較沒有被重視到了我們不會有這樣感覺的\n490714\t515939\t就是原住民本來就是單獨的是一個原住民那尊重其他的族群啊?對,說實在話本席也有原住民的朋友也有原住民的親戚我覺得在國會殿堂上面還是要幫各族群為什麼要成立客委會為什麼要成立原住民委員會還是要為特定的委員會的人士來做發聲\n517557\t537318\t不是說一個政治意識形態可以把我們台灣變成是一言堂如果說台灣真的變一言堂的話我覺得這樣子會非常可悲台灣的美、台灣的好就是多元、包容、文化、特色而不是政治意識形態掛帥把我們過去認知的全部都一筆抹殺謝謝\n","txt":"主席謝謝是不是主席可以請文化部次長還有我們客委會跟園民會的主委請李次長、谷主委還有曾主委李次長我先請教因為今天文化部次長表示臺灣台語沒有侵犯臺灣其他語言並存的地位的意思\n但看到教育部把這個閩南語語言認證變成是臺灣台語然後又看到說監察委員要調查各大車站內臺語廣播腔調不一致跟發音錯誤的問題我們想要請教一下這代表什麼代表現在是臺灣台語只容許一種臺灣台語的發音存在嗎\n監察院的這個調查並不是文化部這邊去投訴所以這我們也尊重監察院、監察委員他們的職責可是對文化部來講我們沒有要推動所謂的單一的腔調\n沒有推動台語腔調因為各地方的腔調其實也是我們所謂的臺語的優美之處或者說特色之處像我來自我的老家在南投我一聽到有一些是大公這個台語的時候我就一聽我就知道說他應該就是從中部過來那當然問題在於是說在保存臺語文化的一個部分現在把它證明變成是臺灣台語到底有沒有尊重到我們臺灣其他的語言\n包括說客語包括我們的原住民很多的語言這也是大家會大家會覺得奇怪的地方啊是跟委員報告因為語言的名稱的部分我們是依照國際的慣例或者是國際組織來講語言的名稱由使用該語言的人他們自稱為習慣好所以我們經過調查\n使用台語的族群他們慣用有85%的人慣用台語這個詞來自稱他們的語言所以我們在建議的書面用語上就把這個名稱放下去可是在口語上不論是大家習慣用什麼樣的方式來自稱這個我們都尊重 這沒有問題啊\n臺語本來大家都講臺語但是臺語是什麼的簡稱臺語是臺灣米蘭語的簡稱可是你今天是把臺灣米蘭語的簡稱之後然後你又在前面再加入臺灣兩個字變成是臺灣台語這樣就變成是臺語它就是一個專有名詞那專有名詞不就代表是說會讓大家就誤認為是說只有臺語代表整個臺灣上面2350萬人所講的語言那這樣是不是就無形當中就把我們的客語就把我們的原住民的語言給忽視了呢\n而且更重要你剛有提到沒有這意思可是外界就會有這樣的狀況啊所以我們需要多加說明市長那我就請教你剛講的是說這個是我們共同使用語言的狀況我也都是用臺語啊但是我認知的臺語就是臺灣米蘭語然後就是韓國我們所使用的一個範圍嘛那如果要用臺灣台語請教今天有一個外國人來到臺灣他想要問欸你們現在講的語言是什麼那我請教臺灣台語的英文要怎麼辦\n臺灣台語臺灣台語是的但如果說是你要怎麼解釋呢就台語是一個語言的名稱這個名稱就叫台語就像我們對很多任何一個物品你給它一個名稱以後它就是一個專有名詞\n所以它現在還是變成是你會變成是它是英去翻這樣的意思你就是創一個新的詞是的 對不對我們就不用所謂的以前可能會用Taiwanese來代表台語可是在英文稱呼上面其實文化部有客尊一個希望能夠尊重國家語言所以我們在英文名稱上就很清楚的標示就是台語所以這樣子你就是在創另外一個新的名詞但這樣新的名詞是不是就讓外國人有可能誤會\n臺灣上這塊土地上大家講的語言會沒有其他的語言來我再請教一下我們的客戶會主委主委剛聽這樣子的講法我想雖然你們今天上午都已經講過就互相尊重了但說實在話\n因為我的選區不管是淡水、山芝也有很多的客家鄉親甚至之前新北市有差不多2萬的客家鄉親其實是從淡水這邊來做一個發跡的所以我們也想問如果說今天臺灣台語它這樣確立了那這樣子臺語就變成是一個專有名詞那會無形當中會讓其他的國際友人也會認為是說臺灣這塊土地上面好像沒有其他的語言存在\n英語是這樣說的,就屬於維尼語言：主委你是要本席也帶上這個翻譯還是說：我其實是聽不懂客語的,不好意思用國語好不好,還是華語\n包括客語、原住民語、臺語這個都是國家語言那現在這個書面上呢它是優先建議,它只是建議所以我們在客委會來說並沒有一定要使用這個或那個那就客家人的立場來說稱呼臺語或閩南語都叫做Holo法\n所以我們是用我們的主體我們由我們的主體來說他稱他稱這個我現在講的是說文化部用這樣子的定義以你站在客委會主委的一個角度來講有沒有客家鄉親跟你反映\n有 那客家鄉親跟你反映你怎麼做是 客家鄉親那個時候的反映我們建議說那我們再請文化部一起再來開國家語言的會議增加了三場的客語的會議 客家語言的會議所以在這個會議當中大家有充分的在討論當然 那文化部有接受你的建議嗎\n應該是這麼說啦我又在這個階段其實我們是尊重每一個人的每一個族群的說法那這樣子才有可能展現出我們多元包容的這個特質這個也是台灣很美好很重要的一個特質因為不同嘛\n主委就是因為本席尊重多元包容的特質也因此才會覺得說為什麼本來無疑是何處惹塵來突然間文化部要在今年我不知道是不是滿足某些人的政治意識形態這個你也不用回答啦這個你也不用幫忙文化部回答啦但我意思是說\n不知道是否滿足某些人的特定政治意識形態： 也因此突然間要做這樣的一個改名的動作 變成是臺灣台語好像獨尊了之後反而造成我們其他語言的一個部分那當然 原住民委員會的主委 你有沒有反應我們的族人有沒有跟你講是說 如果臺灣台語這樣定下來的話好像會獨尊一方\n我們是都尊重啦就是這次我們都尊重啦我不是說都尊重我知道你們今天已經大帽子扣下來我相信你們兩個委員會說實在話啦本身在中央部會也是比較弱勢的委員會啦所以你們也許也不敢有意見啦但我現在問的是你們的族人我現在給你個機會讓你在國會殿堂上幫你們族人講話\n連這樣子都不敢幫族人講話還是表達你們族人的心聲族人聽到說要變台灣台語的時候都沒有任何意見族人的心聲是因為我們自己就稱自己是原住民跟我們就尊重台語他怎麼講就怎麼樣來尊重啊所以今天講台灣台語他可能喊瓜了就變成是好像台灣在台灣是講台語的那我們原住民的話反而變成是比較沒有被重視到了我們不會有這樣感覺的\n就是原住民本來就是單獨的是一個原住民那尊重其他的族群啊?對,說實在話本席也有原住民的朋友也有原住民的親戚我覺得在國會殿堂上面還是要幫各族群為什麼要成立客委會為什麼要成立原住民委員會還是要為特定的委員會的人士來做發聲\n不是說一個政治意識形態可以把我們台灣變成是一言堂如果說台灣真的變一言堂的話我覺得這樣子會非常可悲台灣的美、台灣的好就是多元、包容、文化、特色而不是政治意識形態掛帥把我們過去認知的全部都一筆抹殺謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.679 --> 00:24.148\n主席謝謝是不是主席可以請文化部次長還有我們客委會跟園民會的主委請李次長、谷主委還有曾主委李次長我先請教因為今天文化部次長表示臺灣台語沒有侵犯臺灣其他語言並存的地位的意思\n\n00:24.673 --> 00:43.375\n但看到教育部把這個閩南語語言認證變成是臺灣台語然後又看到說監察委員要調查各大車站內臺語廣播腔調不一致跟發音錯誤的問題我們想要請教一下這代表什麼代表現在是臺灣台語只容許一種臺灣台語的發音存在嗎\n\n00:45.399 --> 00:59.471\n監察院的這個調查並不是文化部這邊去投訴所以這我們也尊重監察院、監察委員他們的職責可是對文化部來講我們沒有要推動所謂的單一的腔調\n\n01:01.112 --> 01:27.762\n沒有推動台語腔調因為各地方的腔調其實也是我們所謂的臺語的優美之處或者說特色之處像我來自我的老家在南投我一聽到有一些是大公這個台語的時候我就一聽我就知道說他應該就是從中部過來那當然問題在於是說在保存臺語文化的一個部分現在把它證明變成是臺灣台語到底有沒有尊重到我們臺灣其他的語言\n\n01:28.402 --> 01:52.189\n包括說客語包括我們的原住民很多的語言這也是大家會大家會覺得奇怪的地方啊是跟委員報告因為語言的名稱的部分我們是依照國際的慣例或者是國際組織來講語言的名稱由使用該語言的人他們自稱為習慣好所以我們經過調查\n\n01:54.009 --> 02:13.874\n使用台語的族群他們慣用有85%的人慣用台語這個詞來自稱他們的語言所以我們在建議的書面用語上就把這個名稱放下去可是在口語上不論是大家習慣用什麼樣的方式來自稱這個我們都尊重這沒有問題啊\n\n02:14.974 --> 02:43.277\n臺語本來大家都講臺語但是臺語是什麼的簡稱臺語是臺灣米蘭語的簡稱可是你今天是把臺灣米蘭語的簡稱之後然後你又在前面再加入臺灣兩個字變成是臺灣台語這樣就變成是臺語它就是一個專有名詞那專有名詞不就代表是說會讓大家就誤認為是說只有臺語代表整個臺灣上面2350萬人所講的語言那這樣是不是就無形當中就把我們的客語就把我們的原住民的語言給忽視了呢\n\n02:43.937 --> 03:13.101\n而且更重要你剛有提到沒有這意思可是外界就會有這樣的狀況啊所以我們需要多加說明市長那我就請教你剛講的是說這個是我們共同使用語言的狀況我也都是用臺語啊但是我認知的臺語就是臺灣米蘭語然後就是韓國我們所使用的一個範圍嘛那如果要用臺灣台語請教今天有一個外國人來到臺灣他想要問欸你們現在講的語言是什麼那我請教臺灣台語的英文要怎麼辦\n\n03:14.453 --> 03:30.458\n臺灣台語臺灣台語是的但如果說是你要怎麼解釋呢就台語是一個語言的名稱這個名稱就叫台語就像我們對很多任何一個物品你給它一個名稱以後它就是一個專有名詞\n\n03:31.260 --> 03:59.182\n所以它現在還是變成是你會變成是它是英去翻這樣的意思你就是創一個新的詞是的對不對我們就不用所謂的以前可能會用Taiwanese來代表台語可是在英文稱呼上面其實文化部有客尊一個希望能夠尊重國家語言所以我們在英文名稱上就很清楚的標示就是台語所以這樣子你就是在創另外一個新的名詞但這樣新的名詞是不是就讓外國人有可能誤會\n\n04:00.883 --> 04:09.488\n臺灣上這塊土地上大家講的語言會沒有其他的語言來我再請教一下我們的客戶會主委主委剛聽這樣子的講法我想雖然你們今天上午都已經講過就互相尊重了但說實在話\n\n04:24.501 --> 04:49.694\n因為我的選區不管是淡水、山芝也有很多的客家鄉親甚至之前新北市有差不多2萬的客家鄉親其實是從淡水這邊來做一個發跡的所以我們也想問如果說今天臺灣台語它這樣確立了那這樣子臺語就變成是一個專有名詞那會無形當中會讓其他的國際友人也會認為是說臺灣這塊土地上面好像沒有其他的語言存在\n\n04:50.645 --> 05:02.494\n英語是這樣說的,就屬於維尼語言：主委你是要本席也帶上這個翻譯還是說：我其實是聽不懂客語的,不好意思用國語好不好,還是華語\n\n05:08.319 --> 05:28.416\n包括客語、原住民語、臺語這個都是國家語言那現在這個書面上呢它是優先建議,它只是建議所以我們在客委會來說並沒有一定要使用這個或那個那就客家人的立場來說稱呼臺語或閩南語都叫做Holo法\n\n05:33.001 --> 05:47.797\n所以我們是用我們的主體我們由我們的主體來說他稱他稱這個我現在講的是說文化部用這樣子的定義以你站在客委會主委的一個角度來講有沒有客家鄉親跟你反映\n\n05:48.197 --> 06:11.603\n有那客家鄉親跟你反映你怎麼做是客家鄉親那個時候的反映我們建議說那我們再請文化部一起再來開國家語言的會議增加了三場的客語的會議客家語言的會議所以在這個會議當中大家有充分的在討論當然那文化部有接受你的建議嗎\n\n06:13.583 --> 06:32.810\n應該是這麼說啦我又在這個階段其實我們是尊重每一個人的每一個族群的說法那這樣子才有可能展現出我們多元包容的這個特質這個也是台灣很美好很重要的一個特質因為不同嘛\n\n06:33.450 --> 06:51.857\n主委就是因為本席尊重多元包容的特質也因此才會覺得說為什麼本來無疑是何處惹塵來突然間文化部要在今年我不知道是不是滿足某些人的政治意識形態這個你也不用回答啦這個你也不用幫忙文化部回答啦但我意思是說\n\n06:52.637 --> 07:13.268\n不知道是否滿足某些人的特定政治意識形態：也因此突然間要做這樣的一個改名的動作變成是臺灣台語好像獨尊了之後反而造成我們其他語言的一個部分那當然原住民委員會的主委你有沒有反應我們的族人有沒有跟你講是說如果臺灣台語這樣定下來的話好像會獨尊一方\n\n07:14.195 --> 07:38.621\n我們是都尊重啦就是這次我們都尊重啦我不是說都尊重我知道你們今天已經大帽子扣下來我相信你們兩個委員會說實在話啦本身在中央部會也是比較弱勢的委員會啦所以你們也許也不敢有意見啦但我現在問的是你們的族人我現在給你個機會讓你在國會殿堂上幫你們族人講話\n\n07:40.588 --> 08:09.660\n連這樣子都不敢幫族人講話還是表達你們族人的心聲族人聽到說要變台灣台語的時候都沒有任何意見族人的心聲是因為我們自己就稱自己是原住民跟我們就尊重台語他怎麼講就怎麼樣來尊重啊所以今天講台灣台語他可能喊瓜了就變成是好像台灣在台灣是講台語的那我們原住民的話反而變成是比較沒有被重視到了我們不會有這樣感覺的\n\n08:10.714 --> 08:35.939\n就是原住民本來就是單獨的是一個原住民那尊重其他的族群啊?對,說實在話本席也有原住民的朋友也有原住民的親戚我覺得在國會殿堂上面還是要幫各族群為什麼要成立客委會為什麼要成立原住民委員會還是要為特定的委員會的人士來做發聲\n\n08:37.557 --> 08:57.318\n不是說一個政治意識形態可以把我們台灣變成是一言堂如果說台灣真的變一言堂的話我覺得這樣子會非常可悲台灣的美、台灣的好就是多元、包容、文化、特色而不是政治意識形態掛帥把我們過去認知的全部都一筆抹殺謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.679,"end":24.148,"text":"主席謝謝是不是主席可以請文化部次長還有我們客委會跟園民會的主委請李次長、谷主委還有曾主委李次長我先請教因為今天文化部次長表示臺灣台語沒有侵犯臺灣其他語言並存的地位的意思"},{"start":24.673,"end":43.375,"text":"但看到教育部把這個閩南語語言認證變成是臺灣台語然後又看到說監察委員要調查各大車站內臺語廣播腔調不一致跟發音錯誤的問題我們想要請教一下這代表什麼代表現在是臺灣台語只容許一種臺灣台語的發音存在嗎"},{"start":45.399,"end":59.471,"text":"監察院的這個調查並不是文化部這邊去投訴所以這我們也尊重監察院、監察委員他們的職責可是對文化部來講我們沒有要推動所謂的單一的腔調"},{"start":61.112,"end":87.762,"text":"沒有推動台語腔調因為各地方的腔調其實也是我們所謂的臺語的優美之處或者說特色之處像我來自我的老家在南投我一聽到有一些是大公這個台語的時候我就一聽我就知道說他應該就是從中部過來那當然問題在於是說在保存臺語文化的一個部分現在把它證明變成是臺灣台語到底有沒有尊重到我們臺灣其他的語言"},{"start":88.402,"end":112.189,"text":"包括說客語包括我們的原住民很多的語言這也是大家會大家會覺得奇怪的地方啊是跟委員報告因為語言的名稱的部分我們是依照國際的慣例或者是國際組織來講語言的名稱由使用該語言的人他們自稱為習慣好所以我們經過調查"},{"start":114.009,"end":133.874,"text":"使用台語的族群他們慣用有85%的人慣用台語這個詞來自稱他們的語言所以我們在建議的書面用語上就把這個名稱放下去可是在口語上不論是大家習慣用什麼樣的方式來自稱這個我們都尊重 這沒有問題啊"},{"start":134.974,"end":163.277,"text":"臺語本來大家都講臺語但是臺語是什麼的簡稱臺語是臺灣米蘭語的簡稱可是你今天是把臺灣米蘭語的簡稱之後然後你又在前面再加入臺灣兩個字變成是臺灣台語這樣就變成是臺語它就是一個專有名詞那專有名詞不就代表是說會讓大家就誤認為是說只有臺語代表整個臺灣上面2350萬人所講的語言那這樣是不是就無形當中就把我們的客語就把我們的原住民的語言給忽視了呢"},{"start":163.937,"end":193.101,"text":"而且更重要你剛有提到沒有這意思可是外界就會有這樣的狀況啊所以我們需要多加說明市長那我就請教你剛講的是說這個是我們共同使用語言的狀況我也都是用臺語啊但是我認知的臺語就是臺灣米蘭語然後就是韓國我們所使用的一個範圍嘛那如果要用臺灣台語請教今天有一個外國人來到臺灣他想要問欸你們現在講的語言是什麼那我請教臺灣台語的英文要怎麼辦"},{"start":194.453,"end":210.458,"text":"臺灣台語臺灣台語是的但如果說是你要怎麼解釋呢就台語是一個語言的名稱這個名稱就叫台語就像我們對很多任何一個物品你給它一個名稱以後它就是一個專有名詞"},{"start":211.26,"end":239.182,"text":"所以它現在還是變成是你會變成是它是英去翻這樣的意思你就是創一個新的詞是的 對不對我們就不用所謂的以前可能會用Taiwanese來代表台語可是在英文稱呼上面其實文化部有客尊一個希望能夠尊重國家語言所以我們在英文名稱上就很清楚的標示就是台語所以這樣子你就是在創另外一個新的名詞但這樣新的名詞是不是就讓外國人有可能誤會"},{"start":240.883,"end":249.488,"text":"臺灣上這塊土地上大家講的語言會沒有其他的語言來我再請教一下我們的客戶會主委主委剛聽這樣子的講法我想雖然你們今天上午都已經講過就互相尊重了但說實在話"},{"start":264.501,"end":289.694,"text":"因為我的選區不管是淡水、山芝也有很多的客家鄉親甚至之前新北市有差不多2萬的客家鄉親其實是從淡水這邊來做一個發跡的所以我們也想問如果說今天臺灣台語它這樣確立了那這樣子臺語就變成是一個專有名詞那會無形當中會讓其他的國際友人也會認為是說臺灣這塊土地上面好像沒有其他的語言存在"},{"start":290.645,"end":302.494,"text":"英語是這樣說的,就屬於維尼語言：主委你是要本席也帶上這個翻譯還是說：我其實是聽不懂客語的,不好意思用國語好不好,還是華語"},{"start":308.319,"end":328.416,"text":"包括客語、原住民語、臺語這個都是國家語言那現在這個書面上呢它是優先建議,它只是建議所以我們在客委會來說並沒有一定要使用這個或那個那就客家人的立場來說稱呼臺語或閩南語都叫做Holo法"},{"start":333.001,"end":347.797,"text":"所以我們是用我們的主體我們由我們的主體來說他稱他稱這個我現在講的是說文化部用這樣子的定義以你站在客委會主委的一個角度來講有沒有客家鄉親跟你反映"},{"start":348.197,"end":371.603,"text":"有 那客家鄉親跟你反映你怎麼做是 客家鄉親那個時候的反映我們建議說那我們再請文化部一起再來開國家語言的會議增加了三場的客語的會議 客家語言的會議所以在這個會議當中大家有充分的在討論當然 那文化部有接受你的建議嗎"},{"start":373.583,"end":392.81,"text":"應該是這麼說啦我又在這個階段其實我們是尊重每一個人的每一個族群的說法那這樣子才有可能展現出我們多元包容的這個特質這個也是台灣很美好很重要的一個特質因為不同嘛"},{"start":393.45,"end":411.857,"text":"主委就是因為本席尊重多元包容的特質也因此才會覺得說為什麼本來無疑是何處惹塵來突然間文化部要在今年我不知道是不是滿足某些人的政治意識形態這個你也不用回答啦這個你也不用幫忙文化部回答啦但我意思是說"},{"start":412.637,"end":433.268,"text":"不知道是否滿足某些人的特定政治意識形態： 也因此突然間要做這樣的一個改名的動作 變成是臺灣台語好像獨尊了之後反而造成我們其他語言的一個部分那當然 原住民委員會的主委 你有沒有反應我們的族人有沒有跟你講是說 如果臺灣台語這樣定下來的話好像會獨尊一方"},{"start":434.195,"end":458.621,"text":"我們是都尊重啦就是這次我們都尊重啦我不是說都尊重我知道你們今天已經大帽子扣下來我相信你們兩個委員會說實在話啦本身在中央部會也是比較弱勢的委員會啦所以你們也許也不敢有意見啦但我現在問的是你們的族人我現在給你個機會讓你在國會殿堂上幫你們族人講話"},{"start":460.588,"end":489.66,"text":"連這樣子都不敢幫族人講話還是表達你們族人的心聲族人聽到說要變台灣台語的時候都沒有任何意見族人的心聲是因為我們自己就稱自己是原住民跟我們就尊重台語他怎麼講就怎麼樣來尊重啊所以今天講台灣台語他可能喊瓜了就變成是好像台灣在台灣是講台語的那我們原住民的話反而變成是比較沒有被重視到了我們不會有這樣感覺的"},{"start":490.714,"end":515.939,"text":"就是原住民本來就是單獨的是一個原住民那尊重其他的族群啊?對,說實在話本席也有原住民的朋友也有原住民的親戚我覺得在國會殿堂上面還是要幫各族群為什麼要成立客委會為什麼要成立原住民委員會還是要為特定的委員會的人士來做發聲"},{"start":517.557,"end":537.318,"text":"不是說一個政治意識形態可以把我們台灣變成是一言堂如果說台灣真的變一言堂的話我覺得這樣子會非常可悲台灣的美、台灣的好就是多元、包容、文化、特色而不是政治意識形態掛帥把我們過去認知的全部都一筆抹殺謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:26:27 - 13:35:29","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155363,"gazette":{"lineno":1249,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（13時26分）主席謝謝，是不是可以請文化部次長，還有客委會跟原民會的主委？"],["主席：請李次長、古主委及曾主委。"],["洪委員孟楷：我先請教李次長，因為今天文化部次長表示臺灣台語沒有侵犯臺灣其他語言並存地位的意思，但看到教育部把閩南語語言認證變成臺灣台語認證，然後又看到監察委員要調查各大車站內台語廣播腔調不一致跟發音錯誤的問題，我們想要請教一下這代表什麼？代表現在臺灣台語只容許一種臺灣台語的發音存在嗎？"],["李次長靜慧：監察院的這個調查並不是文化部這邊去……我們也尊重監察院監察委員的職責，可是對文化部來講，我們沒有要推動所謂的單一腔調。"],["洪委員孟楷：其實各地方的腔調也是台語的優美之處，或者說是特色之處，像我的老家在南投，我聽到有一些長輩說台語的時候，我一聽就知道他應該就是從中部過來。問題在於保存台語文化的部分，現在把它正名變成是臺灣台語，到底有沒有尊重臺灣其他的語言，包括客語，包括原住民很多的語言？這也是大家會覺得奇怪的地方。"],["李次長靜慧：是，跟委員報告，語言名稱的部分，依照國際的慣例或者是國際組織來講，語言的名稱由使用該語言的人他們自稱為習慣。我們經過調查，使用台語的族群有85%的人慣用「台語」這個詞來自稱他們的語言，所以我們在建議的書面用語上就把這個名稱放下去，可是在口語上，不論是大家習慣用什麼樣的方式來自稱，這個我們都尊重。"],["洪委員孟楷：這沒有問題，本來大家都講台語，但是台語是什麼的簡稱？台語是臺灣閩南語的簡稱，可是你今天是把臺灣閩南語簡稱之後，然後你又在前面再加入「臺灣」兩個字，變成是「臺灣台語」，這樣變成台語就是一個專有名詞，專有名詞不就會讓大家誤認為只有台語代表整個臺灣2,350萬人所講的語言？這樣是不是在無形當中就把我們的客語、把我們的原住民語言給忽視了呢？而且更重要的是你剛剛有提到……"],["李次長靜慧：我們沒有這個意思……"],["洪委員孟楷：你們沒有這個意思，可是外界就會有這樣的狀況啊！"],["李次長靜慧：所以我們需要多加說明。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，那我就請教，你剛剛講的是說這個是我們共同使用語言的狀況，我也都是用台語，但是我認知的台語就是臺灣閩南語，就是涵括我們所使用的範圍。如果要用臺灣台語，今天有一個外國人來到臺灣，他想要問你們現在講的語言是什麼，那我請教臺灣台語的英文要怎麼翻？"],["李次長靜慧：Taiwan Tâi-gí。"],["洪委員孟楷：Taiwan Tâi-gí？"],["李次長靜慧：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：但如果說是……你要怎麼解釋呢？"],["李次長靜慧：Tâi-gí是一個語言的名稱，這個名稱就叫Tâi-gí，就像我們對任何的物品，你給它一個名稱以後，它就是一個專有名詞。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在你會變成用音去翻這樣的意思？"],["李次長靜慧：就直接稱為Tâi-gí。"],["洪委員孟楷：也就是創一個新的詞，對不對？"],["李次長靜慧：是的，我們就不用以前所謂的……以前可能會用Taiwanese來代表Tâi-gí，可是在英文稱呼上面，其實文化部希望能夠尊重大家的語言，所以我們在英文名稱上就很清楚的標示就是Tâi-gí，我們不會用Taiwanese來代替。"],["洪委員孟楷：這樣子你就是在創另外一個新的名詞，但是這樣一個新的名詞，是不是就讓外國人有可能誤會在我們臺灣這塊土地上面大家講的語言沒有其他的語言？"],["李次長靜慧：不會啊，因為Tâi-gí這個詞就只是一個發音……"],["洪委員孟楷：我再請教一下客委會主委。"],["古主任委員秀妃：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：剛剛聽這樣子的講法，雖然你們今天上午都已經講過就是互相尊重，但說實在話，我還是……因為我的選區不管是淡水、三芝，也有很多的客家鄉親，甚至之前新北市有差不多兩萬的客家鄉親其實是從淡水這邊發跡的，所以我們也想問如果今天臺灣台語這樣確立了，這樣子台語就變成一個專有名詞，無形當中其他國際友人也會認為臺灣這塊土地上面好像沒有其他的語言存在。"],["古主任委員秀妃：應該是這樣說啦，所有的語言包括客語……"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，你是要本席也戴上翻譯機嗎？我其實是聽不懂客語的，不好意思。"],["古主任委員秀妃：可以嗎？"],["主席：用國語好不好？用華語。"],["古主任委員秀妃：好，包括客語、原住民語、台語都是國家語言，現在這個書面上它是優先建議，它只是建議，所以在客委會來說，並沒有一定要使用這個或那個，就客家人的立場來說，稱呼台語或閩南語都叫做Holo話，所以我們是用我們的主體、我們由我們的主體來說他稱……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，我現在講的是文化部用這樣子的定義，以你站在客委會主委的角度來講，有沒有客家鄉親跟你反映？"],["古主任委員秀妃：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：客家鄉親跟你反映，你怎麼做？"],["古主任委員秀妃：對於客家鄉親那個時候反映，我們建議請文化部再一起來開國家語言的會議，增加了三場客家語言的會議，在這個會議當中大家有再充分的討論，當然……"],["洪委員孟楷：那文化部有接受你的建議嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：應該是這麼說，我覺得在這個階段，其實我們是尊重每一個族群的說法，這樣子才有可能展現出我們多元包容的特質，這個也是臺灣很美好、很重要的特質，因為不同嘛，我們尊重差異。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，就是因為本席尊重多元包容的特質，也因此才會覺得為什麼本來無一事、何處惹塵埃？突然間文化部要在今年這麼做，我不知道是不是為了滿足某些人的政治意識形態？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我想應該不是啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：這個你也不用回答啦，這個你也不用幫忙文化部回答，我的意思是說，不知道是不是為了滿足某些人特定的政治意識形態，因此突然間要做這樣一個改名的動作，變成臺灣台語，好像獨尊了之後，反而造成其他語言的……","請問原住民族委員會主委有沒有反映？我們的族人有沒有跟你說如果臺灣台語這樣定下來的話，好像會獨尊一方？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們是都尊重啦，這件事我們都尊重。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是說都尊重，我知道今天大帽子已經扣下來，我相信你們兩個委員會……說實在話，本身在中央部會也是比較弱勢的委員會，所以你們也許也不敢有意見，但我現在問的是你們的族人，我現在給你一個機會，讓你在國會殿堂上幫你們的族人講話，連這樣子都不敢幫族人講話或是表達你們族人的心聲嗎？族人聽到說要變臺灣台語的時候都沒有任何意見？"],["曾主任委員智勇：族人的心聲是……因為我們自己就稱自己是原住民，我們就尊重台語他怎麼講就怎麼樣來尊重啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：所以今天講臺灣台語，可能就變成好像在臺灣是講台語的，原住民的話反而變成比較沒有被重視到。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們不會有這種感覺，原住民本來就是單獨的原住民，要尊重其他的族群啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，說實在話，本席也有原住民的朋友，也有原住民的親戚，我覺得在國會殿堂上面，還是要幫各族群……為什麼要成立客委會？為什麼要成立原住民族委員會？還是要為特定委員會的人士來發聲，不是說一個 政治意識形態可以把我們臺灣變成一言堂。如果臺灣真的變成一言堂的話，我覺得這樣子會非常可悲。臺灣的美、臺灣的好，就是多元包容文化特色，而不是政治意識形態掛帥，把我們過去認知的全部都一筆抹煞，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。","接下來請邱鎮軍委員、邱鎮軍委員，邱鎮軍委員不在。請黃國昌委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","speakers":["徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","張智倫","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","林倩綺","吳琪銘","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅智強","涂權吉","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","黃國昌","呂玉玲","蘇清泉","丁學忠","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育\n部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正\n「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00004"}}}