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\",\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 907.543, \"end\": 907.783, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 907.783, \"end\": 908.003, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 908.003, \"end\": 908.444, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 908.444, \"end\": 908.664, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 908.664, \"end\": 908.684, \"score\": 0.212}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 909.204, \"end\": 909.404, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 909.404, \"end\": 909.424, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"瑩\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,397 --> 00:00:20,202\n邱議瑩好院長好院長這個剛剛的午餐吃得怎麼樣中午有沒有吃飽根據\n\n2\n00:00:36,772 --> 00:00:51,641\n科總召、副總召跟黃國昌總召他們都好像認為這個是第一次由韓院長跟我兩位一起跟各黨團的三長一起共餐共同討論事情我們的氣氛\n\n3\n00:00:52,682 --> 00:01:19,301\n是相當的不錯的,但是時間還是有限,因為我要趕著回來陪各位委員打巡,所以時間是有限的。其實我覺得啦,如果有韓院長在的話,那個氣氛肯定都是會非常好啦。是不是您覺得時間上有一點短,因為要趕回來備巡,心裡總是有壓力,是不是這樣?當然這個午餐的時間就是這個樣子。剛剛我看了這個午餐結束之後,馬上媒體就有一些轉述,有一些報導。\n\n4\n00:01:21,188 --> 00:01:38,466\n包括黃國昌委員說,非常遺憾這一頓飯破局,行政院沒有提出任何的解方。傅坤祺委員說,非常遺憾,行政院不尊重立法院,所以沒提出任何的解方。但是您說,午餐氣氛和樂。\n\n5\n00:01:39,526 --> 00:01:50,876\n三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨\n\n6\n00:01:57,421 --> 00:02:13,294\n在溝通進一步,不管是想和解也好,或者是大家進一步溝通的希望可是呢,國民黨跟民眾黨的總召說遺憾,他們兩個看不到希望。院長您個人是這樣覺得嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:14,827 --> 00:02:40,507\n我不僅快樂要看到希望,我更希望我跟韓院長努力讓國人快樂,讓國人都看得到希望。那兩面之間就是要這樣互動,在一次的參敘當中不可能把細節問題像菜單一樣列出來這樣談。因為這個是一個參敘,它不是一個正式的協商嘛,所以你不可能在裡面去談到說你要怎麼樣做,你要怎麼樣協商,到時候會不會又有人出來咆嘯說這是密室,因為沒有公開直播。\n\n8\n00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:57,249\n所以未來我希望就是能夠在這樣的氣氛底下,把一些該處理的事情在大院裡面草引進行協商,盡快的集中協商。那行政會會認為我們會很樂意在這個協商過程中扮演行政院該有的角色。\n\n9\n00:02:57,625 --> 00:03:25,182\n韓院長我可不可以白話一點解釋你們中午的午餐就是說有一個推動的大方向大家有一個這樣的共識未來這個總預算該怎麼復違該怎麼樣去做一些調整大家內心有一個想法但是細節的部分真正落實的部分是不是還要留待韓院長來召集協商大家正式坐下來在協商的時候談\n\n10\n00:03:26,002 --> 00:03:42,243\n是不是我如果白話去解釋你們中午的午餐是不是可以這樣子在屬於我可以答覆的50%我認為完全正確但是我也認為不宜這個事情就丟給還院長也不宜這個樣子這需要大家共同來談所以行政院願意扮演\n\n11\n00:03:43,750 --> 00:04:07,282\n更重要更主要的角色來談這個事但是談要由朝野黨團來談我覺得在立法院裡頭還是應該要保持一個快樂的心啦如果每天在這裡像怒目金剛一樣每天在這裡一直不斷的咆哮那吃個快樂的飯你們大家都覺得這一餐飯吃得很快樂可是有人就說我不吃午餐我都是不吃午餐的那不知道去幹嘛呢不在現場你們知道那麼多\n\n12\n00:04:09,706 --> 00:04:28,059\n這個也是不能在這裡講的公開秘密。剛剛午餐的部分我就問到這裡。我接下來問這個大概是比較嚴肅的議題。院長你大概知道我們高雄才剛剛經歷了這個山陀而颱風的肆虐。給您看一下山陀而之後\n\n13\n00:04:29,912 --> 00:04:53,740\n的高雄的狀況十七疾風對高雄帶來重大的損失這個是在大寮的河堤路上您看到所有的電線桿斷裂樹全部倒塌那台電的工程工程人員本來說從台中以南的工程人員全部調到高雄來後來到了第二天發現\n\n14\n00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:56,701\n這件事情讓我們開始嚴正的思考兩個部分\n\n15\n00:05:23,288 --> 00:05:47,298\n一個是電感地下化到底要不要進行這個還是讓您看一下三天之後臺電的員工可以把剛剛殘破不堪的道路把它整成這樣我真的太佩服臺電的同仁的工作效率我必須再講一次我也希望部長能夠對於我們臺電的同仁多加慰勉\n\n16\n00:05:49,566 --> 00:06:15,114\n來院長讓您看一下平和公路全線地下化這個是在蘇貞昌當院長的時候去做的原因就是要大幅降低遇到風災的時候大規模的停電那有沒有達成效果呢我讓您看一下這是這一次山陀而颱風在高雄市區造成了超過10萬戶以上的停電但是您可以看到\n\n17\n00:06:15,894 --> 00:06:42,464\n平和公路因為地下化了之後平和公路只有零星的停電事故並沒有大規模的停電所以院長想跟您進一步討論其實行政院包括臺電有編列相關的預算這個是在2017年到2019年我們有這個所謂強化配電線路防災任性計劃當時投入了70億元\n\n18\n00:06:46,650 --> 00:06:52,160\n做了這些事情總共大概做了有463.64公里沒有實際大概做了將近500公里的長度\n\n19\n00:06:57,574 --> 00:07:11,803\n明年度我們的預算,其實這是持續性的計畫,所以還是有裂案。我不知道經濟部在這個配電線路的地下化工程裡頭,編列了多少預算?\n\n20\n00:07:11,803 --> 00:07:13,804\n你們打算怎麼做?\n\n21\n00:07:13,804 --> 00:07:23,971\n這一次在沿海地區受創嚴重,有沒有思考過把沿海地區的這一些電線桿全部地下化?\n\n22\n00:07:24,807 --> 00:07:24,827\n國務委員\n\n23\n00:07:41,841 --> 00:08:05,968\n陳其邁市長在風災之後跟我通了至少6次以上的電話,充分告訴我路數、公園裡面的大樹、青島的狀況,而且壓到電線桿,讓復電相當的困難,所以我們積極去處理。再來你看平鵝公路,我們這次上禮拜六到屏東去的時候,確實經過那段路,鄭德城路委員所說的,它並不會造成\n\n24\n00:08:06,288 --> 00:08:08,469\n這個您剛才所指導的這個臺電公司我想我們會通盤的考量那這個在地質地理上面如果在技術上可行的話我們會去做\n\n25\n00:08:35,094 --> 00:08:35,134\n主席\n\n26\n00:08:55,202 --> 00:09:23,409\n反而更慘,所以我們會衡量技術上面可以處理的方式。我覺得技術上,因為你們現在一直在講所謂的韌性電網這件事情,如果韌性電網這個事情能夠達成的話,我覺得運用現在的這些科技的技術,應該去好好的思考。另外第二個呢,我剛剛還沒講完,就是說電感如果不能地下化,旁邊種植的行道數就很重要了。\n\n27\n00:09:24,510 --> 00:09:26,114\n院長您同意我的看法嗎?\n\n28\n00:09:26,114 --> 00:09:30,266\n剛剛您看到的那些照片,可不可以再把我調回去剛剛的那些照片?\n\n29\n00:09:32,936 --> 00:09:58,759\n這一排的路數,種這個是什麼?黑板樹啦!黑板樹很怕,只要風來,一吹它就倒了。黑板樹,小葉蘭仁,是在南部地區種最多的行道樹。它最容易折斷,最容易勾斷電線,甚至折斷電線桿。所以這個在河堤道路上面,這個是屬於經濟部水利署的河川道路,這個大概幾千棵的黑板樹。\n\n30\n00:09:59,795 --> 00:10:14,130\n我們期待是不是經濟部能夠跟農業部來做合作,農業部有這個臨時所,他們有去研究哪一些樹種是比較適合當行道樹的,你們可不可以跟臨時所來做合作,把這樣的樹種全部換掉,\n\n31\n00:10:14,991 --> 00:10:15,751\n部長您同意我的看法嗎?\n\n32\n00:10:30,981 --> 00:10:53,686\n是,我們會完全依照這個委員的這個指示,我們會馬上跟這個農業部來協商,那用農業部他們很專業,他們可以知道哪一些樹可以對這個環境會比較好,甚至於我們在找說哪一些樹對二氧化碳的這個吸收會比較大,來提供這個環境,優質的環境,這個我們馬上會進行的。\n\n33\n00:10:56,147 --> 00:11:17,639\n我們在農業部裡頭培養了很多的林業博士我跟委員報告就是說以平和公路為例就是在整個在電纜地下挖的同時我們就組成了一個團隊然後包括數種的選擇在不同地區的數種的選擇然後適合這種不同地形跟地貌的部分所以後續\n\n34\n00:11:18,419 --> 00:11:36,410\n我們在處理這個部分,我想我們也會跟經濟部合作,會組成一個數種選擇,甚至包括種植的輔導,我們都會來處理。好,我想這個部分,其實不單只是因為高雄這一次受到十七疾風,所以受創慘重,院長如果您這幾天有空到高雄來看一看的話,\n\n35\n00:11:37,290 --> 00:11:37,410\n議員長您看過這個嗎?\n\n36\n00:12:06,072 --> 00:12:25,363\n光電隧道在高速公路上面是2022年蘇貞昌當院長的時候我曾經在這裡質詢過蘇院長告訴我說這是一個可以思考的路徑因為國外開始在做這一類的研究了好了到了2023年奇怪都是10月份\n\n37\n00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:54,980\n陳建仁當院長的時候我又再提了一次當時在濃水圳上面做光電板我認為這是錯誤的政策我覺得可以去思考比如說用高速公路的隔音牆把它做成一個光電隧道那行政院也認為應該可以研究可是我問了很多次交通部抵死不從能源署認為這是一個可以研究的方向能源署認為可以做交通部抵死不從\n\n38\n00:12:56,411 --> 00:13:11,485\n院長我再讓您看這是在今年的4月18號在瑞士瑞士他們開始在計畫在公路上面建置這樣的一個太陽能板的光電隧道這是4月份的\n\n39\n00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:29,159\n接下來讓您看這個是最新的,2024年8月份,歐洲的許多國家,包括這個TaxExplorer的報導,歐洲的許多國家開始在研究做光電隧道的可行性。\n\n40\n00:13:29,779 --> 00:13:49,186\n光電隧道的可行性就會比如說我們不用在農地上面建置太陽能光電板不用在水準上面建置太陽能光電板運用現有的公路建置這樣的一個太陽能隧道它可以達到綠電減碳各式各樣的這樣的一個模式\n\n41\n00:13:50,393 --> 00:14:16,051\n部長我看您一直點頭您同意我的看法基本上這個方向是可以去考慮的但是這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全這個所有的這個這個不是你這個講法跟交通不一樣我當然知道這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全包括裝置的安全交通部一直跟我說那個太陽能板只要遇到大風遇到什麼它就會飛走\n\n42\n00:14:20,930 --> 00:14:42,245\n有一個很大的問題,包括成本建構一個這樣子的環境當然是非常的理想但是以目前的成本來考量他可能發出來的電沒有辦法抵擋我們的投資所以基於這個實驗、科學來看是沒有問題\n\n43\n00:14:43,106 --> 00:15:08,684\n但是如果按企業經營啊,臺電來經營這個的話,可能就是不符成本。這個當然不可能是臺電去經營啊,但是我覺得是不是政府能夠研究,可以開始做一些可行性評估。跟委員報告,高峰局啊,他已經正式在說他會收集像類似這樣的國外的經驗,那收集國外經驗之前,他已經在北中南12個服務區招標完成,先在服務區做起。\n\n44\n00:15:09,204 --> 00:15:09,424\n好,謝謝邱議瑩\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15397\t20202\t邱議瑩好院長好 院長這個剛剛的午餐吃得怎麼樣 中午有沒有吃飽根據\n36772\t51641\t科總召、副總召跟黃國昌總召他們都好像認為這個是第一次由韓院長跟我兩位一起跟各黨團的三長一起共餐共同討論事情我們的氣氛\n52682\t79301\t是相當的不錯的,但是時間還是有限,因為我要趕著回來陪各位委員打巡,所以時間是有限的。其實我覺得啦,如果有韓院長在的話,那個氣氛肯定都是會非常好啦。是不是您覺得時間上有一點短,因為要趕回來備巡,心裡總是有壓力,是不是這樣?當然這個午餐的時間就是這個樣子。剛剛我看了這個午餐結束之後,馬上媒體就有一些轉述,有一些報導。\n81188\t98466\t包括黃國昌委員說,非常遺憾這一頓飯破局,行政院沒有提出任何的解方。傅坤祺委員說,非常遺憾,行政院不尊重立法院,所以沒提出任何的解方。但是您說,午餐氣氛和樂。\n99526\t110876\t三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨\n117421\t133294\t在溝通進一步,不管是想和解也好,或者是大家進一步溝通的希望可是呢,國民黨跟民眾黨的總召說遺憾,他們兩個看不到希望。 院長您個人是這樣覺得嗎?\n134827\t160507\t我不僅快樂要看到希望,我更希望我跟韓院長努力讓國人快樂,讓國人都看得到希望。那兩面之間就是要這樣互動,在一次的參敘當中不可能把細節問題像菜單一樣列出來這樣談。因為這個是一個參敘,它不是一個正式的協商嘛,所以你不可能在裡面去談到說你要怎麼樣做,你要怎麼樣協商,到時候會不會又有人出來咆嘯說這是密室,因為沒有公開直播。\n161960\t177249\t所以未來我希望就是能夠在這樣的氣氛底下,把一些該處理的事情在大院裡面草引進行協商,盡快的集中協商。那行政會會認為我們會很樂意在這個協商過程中扮演行政院該有的角色。\n177625\t205182\t韓院長我可不可以白話一點解釋你們中午的午餐就是說有一個推動的大方向大家有一個這樣的共識未來這個總預算該怎麼復違該怎麼樣去做一些調整大家內心有一個想法但是細節的部分真正落實的部分是不是還要留待韓院長來召集協商大家正式坐下來在協商的時候談\n206002\t222243\t是不是我如果白話去解釋你們中午的午餐是不是可以這樣子在屬於我可以答覆的50%我認為完全正確但是我也認為不宜這個事情就丟給還院長也不宜這個樣子這需要大家共同來談所以行政院願意扮演\n223750\t247282\t更重要更主要的角色來談這個事 但是談要由朝野黨團來談我覺得在立法院裡頭還是應該要保持一個快樂的心啦 如果每天在這裡像怒目金剛一樣每天在這裡一直不斷的咆哮那吃個快樂的飯你們大家都覺得這一餐飯吃得很快樂 可是有人就說我不吃午餐我都是不吃午餐的 那不知道去幹嘛呢 不在現場你們知道那麼多\n249706\t268059\t這個也是不能在這裡講的公開秘密。 剛剛午餐的部分我就問到這裡。我接下來問這個大概是比較嚴肅的議題。 院長你大概知道我們高雄才剛剛經歷了這個山陀而颱風的肆虐。 給您看一下山陀而之後\n269912\t293740\t的高雄的狀況十七疾風對高雄帶來重大的損失這個是在大寮的河堤路上您看到所有的電線桿斷裂樹全部倒塌那台電的工程工程人員本來說從台中以南的工程人員全部調到高雄來後來到了第二天發現\n295040\t296701\t這件事情讓我們開始嚴正的思考兩個部分\n323288\t347298\t一個是電感地下化到底要不要進行這個還是讓您看一下三天之後臺電的員工可以把剛剛殘破不堪的道路把它整成這樣我真的太佩服臺電的同仁的工作效率我必須再講一次我也希望部長能夠對於我們臺電的同仁多加慰勉\n349566\t375114\t來 院長讓您看一下平和公路全線地下化這個是在蘇貞昌當院長的時候去做的原因就是要大幅降低遇到風災的時候大規模的停電那有沒有達成效果呢我讓您看一下這是這一次山陀而颱風在高雄市區造成了超過10萬戶以上的停電但是您可以看到\n375894\t402464\t平和公路因為地下化了之後平和公路只有零星的停電事故並沒有大規模的停電所以院長想跟您進一步討論其實行政院包括臺電有編列相關的預算這個是在2017年到2019年我們有這個所謂強化配電線路防災任性計劃當時投入了70億元\n406650\t412160\t做了這些事情總共大概做了有463.64公里沒有實際大概做了將近500公里的長度\n417574\t431803\t明年度我們的預算,其實這是持續性的計畫,所以還是有裂案。 我不知道經濟部在這個配電線路的地下化工程裡頭,編列了多少預算?\n431803\t433804\t你們打算怎麼做?\n433804\t443971\t這一次在沿海地區受創嚴重,有沒有思考過把沿海地區的這一些電線桿全部地下化?\n444807\t444827\t國務委員\n461841\t485968\t陳其邁市長在風災之後跟我通了至少6次以上的電話,充分告訴我路數、公園裡面的大樹、青島的狀況,而且壓到電線桿,讓復電相當的困難,所以我們積極去處理。 再來你看平鵝公路,我們這次上禮拜六到屏東去的時候,確實經過那段路,鄭德城路委員所說的,它並不會造成\n486288\t488469\t這個您剛才所指導的這個臺電公司我想我們會通盤的考量那這個在地質地理上面如果在技術上可行的話我們會去做\n515094\t515134\t主席\n535202\t563409\t反而更慘,所以我們會衡量技術上面可以處理的方式。我覺得技術上,因為你們現在一直在講所謂的韌性電網這件事情,如果韌性電網這個事情能夠達成的話,我覺得運用現在的這些科技的技術,應該去好好的思考。另外第二個呢,我剛剛還沒講完,就是說電感如果不能地下化,旁邊種植的行道數就很重要了。\n564510\t566114\t院長您同意我的看法嗎?\n566114\t570266\t剛剛您看到的那些照片,可不可以再把我調回去剛剛的那些照片?\n572936\t598759\t這一排的路數,種這個是什麼?黑板樹啦!黑板樹很怕,只要風來,一吹它就倒了。黑板樹,小葉蘭仁,是在南部地區種最多的行道樹。它最容易折斷,最容易勾斷電線,甚至折斷電線桿。所以這個在河堤道路上面,這個是屬於經濟部水利署的河川道路,這個大概幾千棵的黑板樹。\n599795\t614130\t我們期待是不是經濟部能夠跟農業部來做合作,農業部有這個臨時所,他們有去研究哪一些樹種是比較適合當行道樹的,你們可不可以跟臨時所來做合作,把這樣的樹種全部換掉,\n614991\t615751\t部長您同意我的看法嗎?\n630981\t653686\t是,我們會完全依照這個委員的這個指示,我們會馬上跟這個農業部來協商,那用農業部他們很專業,他們可以知道哪一些樹可以對這個環境會比較好,甚至於我們在找說哪一些樹對二氧化碳的這個吸收會比較大,來提供這個環境,優質的環境,這個我們馬上會進行的。\n656147\t677639\t我們在農業部裡頭培養了很多的林業博士我跟委員報告就是說以平和公路為例就是在整個在電纜地下挖的同時我們就組成了一個團隊然後包括數種的選擇在不同地區的數種的選擇然後適合這種不同地形跟地貌的部分所以後續\n678419\t696410\t我們在處理這個部分,我想我們也會跟經濟部合作,會組成一個數種選擇,甚至包括種植的輔導,我們都會來處理。好,我想這個部分,其實不單只是因為高雄這一次受到十七疾風,所以受創慘重,院長如果您這幾天有空到高雄來看一看的話,\n697290\t697410\t議員長您看過這個嗎?\n726072\t745363\t光電隧道在高速公路上面是2022年蘇貞昌當院長的時候我曾經在這裡質詢過蘇院長告訴我說這是一個可以思考的路徑因為國外開始在做這一類的研究了好了到了2023年奇怪都是10月份\n746949\t774980\t陳建仁當院長的時候我又再提了一次當時在濃水圳上面做光電板我認為這是錯誤的政策我覺得可以去思考比如說用高速公路的隔音牆把它做成一個光電隧道那行政院也認為應該可以研究可是我問了很多次交通部抵死不從能源署認為這是一個可以研究的方向能源署認為可以做交通部抵死不從\n776411\t791485\t院長我再讓您看這是在今年的4月18號在瑞士瑞士他們開始在計畫在公路上面建置這樣的一個太陽能板的光電隧道這是4月份的\n792560\t809159\t接下來讓您看這個是最新的,2024年8月份,歐洲的許多國家,包括這個Tax Explorer的報導,歐洲的許多國家開始在研究做光電隧道的可行性。\n809779\t829186\t光電隧道的可行性就會比如說我們不用在農地上面建置太陽能光電板不用在水準上面建置太陽能光電板運用現有的公路建置這樣的一個太陽能隧道它可以達到綠電減碳各式各樣的這樣的一個模式\n830393\t856051\t部長我看您一直點頭您同意我的看法基本上這個方向是可以去考慮的但是這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全這個所有的這個這個不是你這個講法跟交通不一樣我當然知道這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全包括裝置的安全交通部一直跟我說那個太陽能板只要遇到大風遇到什麼它就會飛走\n860930\t882245\t有一個很大的問題,包括成本建構一個這樣子的環境當然是非常的理想但是以目前的成本來考量他可能發出來的電沒有辦法抵擋我們的投資所以基於這個實驗、科學來看是沒有問題\n883106\t908684\t但是如果按企業經營啊,臺電來經營這個的話,可能就是不符成本。 這個當然不可能是臺電去經營啊,但是我覺得是不是政府能夠研究,可以開始做一些可行性評估。 跟委員報告,高峰局啊,他已經正式在說他會收集像類似這樣的國外的經驗,那收集國外經驗之前,他已經在北中南12個服務區招標完成,先在服務區做起。\n909204\t909424\t好,謝謝邱議瑩\n","txt":"邱議瑩好院長好 院長這個剛剛的午餐吃得怎麼樣 中午有沒有吃飽根據\n科總召、副總召跟黃國昌總召他們都好像認為這個是第一次由韓院長跟我兩位一起跟各黨團的三長一起共餐共同討論事情我們的氣氛\n是相當的不錯的,但是時間還是有限,因為我要趕著回來陪各位委員打巡,所以時間是有限的。其實我覺得啦,如果有韓院長在的話,那個氣氛肯定都是會非常好啦。是不是您覺得時間上有一點短,因為要趕回來備巡,心裡總是有壓力,是不是這樣?當然這個午餐的時間就是這個樣子。剛剛我看了這個午餐結束之後,馬上媒體就有一些轉述,有一些報導。\n包括黃國昌委員說,非常遺憾這一頓飯破局,行政院沒有提出任何的解方。傅坤祺委員說,非常遺憾,行政院不尊重立法院,所以沒提出任何的解方。但是您說,午餐氣氛和樂。\n三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨\n在溝通進一步,不管是想和解也好,或者是大家進一步溝通的希望可是呢,國民黨跟民眾黨的總召說遺憾,他們兩個看不到希望。 院長您個人是這樣覺得嗎?\n我不僅快樂要看到希望,我更希望我跟韓院長努力讓國人快樂,讓國人都看得到希望。那兩面之間就是要這樣互動,在一次的參敘當中不可能把細節問題像菜單一樣列出來這樣談。因為這個是一個參敘,它不是一個正式的協商嘛,所以你不可能在裡面去談到說你要怎麼樣做,你要怎麼樣協商,到時候會不會又有人出來咆嘯說這是密室,因為沒有公開直播。\n所以未來我希望就是能夠在這樣的氣氛底下,把一些該處理的事情在大院裡面草引進行協商,盡快的集中協商。那行政會會認為我們會很樂意在這個協商過程中扮演行政院該有的角色。\n韓院長我可不可以白話一點解釋你們中午的午餐就是說有一個推動的大方向大家有一個這樣的共識未來這個總預算該怎麼復違該怎麼樣去做一些調整大家內心有一個想法但是細節的部分真正落實的部分是不是還要留待韓院長來召集協商大家正式坐下來在協商的時候談\n是不是我如果白話去解釋你們中午的午餐是不是可以這樣子在屬於我可以答覆的50%我認為完全正確但是我也認為不宜這個事情就丟給還院長也不宜這個樣子這需要大家共同來談所以行政院願意扮演\n更重要更主要的角色來談這個事 但是談要由朝野黨團來談我覺得在立法院裡頭還是應該要保持一個快樂的心啦 如果每天在這裡像怒目金剛一樣每天在這裡一直不斷的咆哮那吃個快樂的飯你們大家都覺得這一餐飯吃得很快樂 可是有人就說我不吃午餐我都是不吃午餐的 那不知道去幹嘛呢 不在現場你們知道那麼多\n這個也是不能在這裡講的公開秘密。 剛剛午餐的部分我就問到這裡。我接下來問這個大概是比較嚴肅的議題。 院長你大概知道我們高雄才剛剛經歷了這個山陀而颱風的肆虐。 給您看一下山陀而之後\n的高雄的狀況十七疾風對高雄帶來重大的損失這個是在大寮的河堤路上您看到所有的電線桿斷裂樹全部倒塌那台電的工程工程人員本來說從台中以南的工程人員全部調到高雄來後來到了第二天發現\n這件事情讓我們開始嚴正的思考兩個部分\n一個是電感地下化到底要不要進行這個還是讓您看一下三天之後臺電的員工可以把剛剛殘破不堪的道路把它整成這樣我真的太佩服臺電的同仁的工作效率我必須再講一次我也希望部長能夠對於我們臺電的同仁多加慰勉\n來 院長讓您看一下平和公路全線地下化這個是在蘇貞昌當院長的時候去做的原因就是要大幅降低遇到風災的時候大規模的停電那有沒有達成效果呢我讓您看一下這是這一次山陀而颱風在高雄市區造成了超過10萬戶以上的停電但是您可以看到\n平和公路因為地下化了之後平和公路只有零星的停電事故並沒有大規模的停電所以院長想跟您進一步討論其實行政院包括臺電有編列相關的預算這個是在2017年到2019年我們有這個所謂強化配電線路防災任性計劃當時投入了70億元\n做了這些事情總共大概做了有463.64公里沒有實際大概做了將近500公里的長度\n明年度我們的預算,其實這是持續性的計畫,所以還是有裂案。 我不知道經濟部在這個配電線路的地下化工程裡頭,編列了多少預算?\n你們打算怎麼做?\n這一次在沿海地區受創嚴重,有沒有思考過把沿海地區的這一些電線桿全部地下化?\n國務委員\n陳其邁市長在風災之後跟我通了至少6次以上的電話,充分告訴我路數、公園裡面的大樹、青島的狀況,而且壓到電線桿,讓復電相當的困難,所以我們積極去處理。 再來你看平鵝公路,我們這次上禮拜六到屏東去的時候,確實經過那段路,鄭德城路委員所說的,它並不會造成\n這個您剛才所指導的這個臺電公司我想我們會通盤的考量那這個在地質地理上面如果在技術上可行的話我們會去做\n主席\n反而更慘,所以我們會衡量技術上面可以處理的方式。我覺得技術上,因為你們現在一直在講所謂的韌性電網這件事情,如果韌性電網這個事情能夠達成的話,我覺得運用現在的這些科技的技術,應該去好好的思考。另外第二個呢,我剛剛還沒講完,就是說電感如果不能地下化,旁邊種植的行道數就很重要了。\n院長您同意我的看法嗎?\n剛剛您看到的那些照片,可不可以再把我調回去剛剛的那些照片?\n這一排的路數,種這個是什麼?黑板樹啦!黑板樹很怕,只要風來,一吹它就倒了。黑板樹,小葉蘭仁,是在南部地區種最多的行道樹。它最容易折斷,最容易勾斷電線,甚至折斷電線桿。所以這個在河堤道路上面,這個是屬於經濟部水利署的河川道路,這個大概幾千棵的黑板樹。\n我們期待是不是經濟部能夠跟農業部來做合作,農業部有這個臨時所,他們有去研究哪一些樹種是比較適合當行道樹的,你們可不可以跟臨時所來做合作,把這樣的樹種全部換掉,\n部長您同意我的看法嗎?\n是,我們會完全依照這個委員的這個指示,我們會馬上跟這個農業部來協商,那用農業部他們很專業,他們可以知道哪一些樹可以對這個環境會比較好,甚至於我們在找說哪一些樹對二氧化碳的這個吸收會比較大,來提供這個環境,優質的環境,這個我們馬上會進行的。\n我們在農業部裡頭培養了很多的林業博士我跟委員報告就是說以平和公路為例就是在整個在電纜地下挖的同時我們就組成了一個團隊然後包括數種的選擇在不同地區的數種的選擇然後適合這種不同地形跟地貌的部分所以後續\n我們在處理這個部分,我想我們也會跟經濟部合作,會組成一個數種選擇,甚至包括種植的輔導,我們都會來處理。好,我想這個部分,其實不單只是因為高雄這一次受到十七疾風,所以受創慘重,院長如果您這幾天有空到高雄來看一看的話,\n議員長您看過這個嗎?\n光電隧道在高速公路上面是2022年蘇貞昌當院長的時候我曾經在這裡質詢過蘇院長告訴我說這是一個可以思考的路徑因為國外開始在做這一類的研究了好了到了2023年奇怪都是10月份\n陳建仁當院長的時候我又再提了一次當時在濃水圳上面做光電板我認為這是錯誤的政策我覺得可以去思考比如說用高速公路的隔音牆把它做成一個光電隧道那行政院也認為應該可以研究可是我問了很多次交通部抵死不從能源署認為這是一個可以研究的方向能源署認為可以做交通部抵死不從\n院長我再讓您看這是在今年的4月18號在瑞士瑞士他們開始在計畫在公路上面建置這樣的一個太陽能板的光電隧道這是4月份的\n接下來讓您看這個是最新的,2024年8月份,歐洲的許多國家,包括這個Tax Explorer的報導,歐洲的許多國家開始在研究做光電隧道的可行性。\n光電隧道的可行性就會比如說我們不用在農地上面建置太陽能光電板不用在水準上面建置太陽能光電板運用現有的公路建置這樣的一個太陽能隧道它可以達到綠電減碳各式各樣的這樣的一個模式\n部長我看您一直點頭您同意我的看法基本上這個方向是可以去考慮的但是這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全這個所有的這個這個不是你這個講法跟交通不一樣我當然知道這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全包括裝置的安全交通部一直跟我說那個太陽能板只要遇到大風遇到什麼它就會飛走\n有一個很大的問題,包括成本建構一個這樣子的環境當然是非常的理想但是以目前的成本來考量他可能發出來的電沒有辦法抵擋我們的投資所以基於這個實驗、科學來看是沒有問題\n但是如果按企業經營啊,臺電來經營這個的話,可能就是不符成本。 這個當然不可能是臺電去經營啊,但是我覺得是不是政府能夠研究,可以開始做一些可行性評估。 跟委員報告,高峰局啊,他已經正式在說他會收集像類似這樣的國外的經驗,那收集國外經驗之前,他已經在北中南12個服務區招標完成,先在服務區做起。\n好,謝謝邱議瑩\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.397 --> 00:20.202\n邱議瑩好院長好院長這個剛剛的午餐吃得怎麼樣中午有沒有吃飽根據\n\n00:36.772 --> 00:51.641\n科總召、副總召跟黃國昌總召他們都好像認為這個是第一次由韓院長跟我兩位一起跟各黨團的三長一起共餐共同討論事情我們的氣氛\n\n00:52.682 --> 01:19.301\n是相當的不錯的,但是時間還是有限,因為我要趕著回來陪各位委員打巡,所以時間是有限的。其實我覺得啦,如果有韓院長在的話,那個氣氛肯定都是會非常好啦。是不是您覺得時間上有一點短,因為要趕回來備巡,心裡總是有壓力,是不是這樣?當然這個午餐的時間就是這個樣子。剛剛我看了這個午餐結束之後,馬上媒體就有一些轉述,有一些報導。\n\n01:21.188 --> 01:38.466\n包括黃國昌委員說,非常遺憾這一頓飯破局,行政院沒有提出任何的解方。傅坤祺委員說,非常遺憾,行政院不尊重立法院,所以沒提出任何的解方。但是您說,午餐氣氛和樂。\n\n01:39.526 --> 01:50.876\n三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨\n\n01:57.421 --> 02:13.294\n在溝通進一步,不管是想和解也好,或者是大家進一步溝通的希望可是呢,國民黨跟民眾黨的總召說遺憾,他們兩個看不到希望。院長您個人是這樣覺得嗎?\n\n02:14.827 --> 02:40.507\n我不僅快樂要看到希望,我更希望我跟韓院長努力讓國人快樂,讓國人都看得到希望。那兩面之間就是要這樣互動,在一次的參敘當中不可能把細節問題像菜單一樣列出來這樣談。因為這個是一個參敘,它不是一個正式的協商嘛,所以你不可能在裡面去談到說你要怎麼樣做,你要怎麼樣協商,到時候會不會又有人出來咆嘯說這是密室,因為沒有公開直播。\n\n02:41.960 --> 02:57.249\n所以未來我希望就是能夠在這樣的氣氛底下,把一些該處理的事情在大院裡面草引進行協商,盡快的集中協商。那行政會會認為我們會很樂意在這個協商過程中扮演行政院該有的角色。\n\n02:57.625 --> 03:25.182\n韓院長我可不可以白話一點解釋你們中午的午餐就是說有一個推動的大方向大家有一個這樣的共識未來這個總預算該怎麼復違該怎麼樣去做一些調整大家內心有一個想法但是細節的部分真正落實的部分是不是還要留待韓院長來召集協商大家正式坐下來在協商的時候談\n\n03:26.002 --> 03:42.243\n是不是我如果白話去解釋你們中午的午餐是不是可以這樣子在屬於我可以答覆的50%我認為完全正確但是我也認為不宜這個事情就丟給還院長也不宜這個樣子這需要大家共同來談所以行政院願意扮演\n\n03:43.750 --> 04:07.282\n更重要更主要的角色來談這個事但是談要由朝野黨團來談我覺得在立法院裡頭還是應該要保持一個快樂的心啦如果每天在這裡像怒目金剛一樣每天在這裡一直不斷的咆哮那吃個快樂的飯你們大家都覺得這一餐飯吃得很快樂可是有人就說我不吃午餐我都是不吃午餐的那不知道去幹嘛呢不在現場你們知道那麼多\n\n04:09.706 --> 04:28.059\n這個也是不能在這裡講的公開秘密。剛剛午餐的部分我就問到這裡。我接下來問這個大概是比較嚴肅的議題。院長你大概知道我們高雄才剛剛經歷了這個山陀而颱風的肆虐。給您看一下山陀而之後\n\n04:29.912 --> 04:53.740\n的高雄的狀況十七疾風對高雄帶來重大的損失這個是在大寮的河堤路上您看到所有的電線桿斷裂樹全部倒塌那台電的工程工程人員本來說從台中以南的工程人員全部調到高雄來後來到了第二天發現\n\n04:55.040 --> 04:56.701\n這件事情讓我們開始嚴正的思考兩個部分\n\n05:23.288 --> 05:47.298\n一個是電感地下化到底要不要進行這個還是讓您看一下三天之後臺電的員工可以把剛剛殘破不堪的道路把它整成這樣我真的太佩服臺電的同仁的工作效率我必須再講一次我也希望部長能夠對於我們臺電的同仁多加慰勉\n\n05:49.566 --> 06:15.114\n來院長讓您看一下平和公路全線地下化這個是在蘇貞昌當院長的時候去做的原因就是要大幅降低遇到風災的時候大規模的停電那有沒有達成效果呢我讓您看一下這是這一次山陀而颱風在高雄市區造成了超過10萬戶以上的停電但是您可以看到\n\n06:15.894 --> 06:42.464\n平和公路因為地下化了之後平和公路只有零星的停電事故並沒有大規模的停電所以院長想跟您進一步討論其實行政院包括臺電有編列相關的預算這個是在2017年到2019年我們有這個所謂強化配電線路防災任性計劃當時投入了70億元\n\n06:46.650 --> 06:52.160\n做了這些事情總共大概做了有463.64公里沒有實際大概做了將近500公里的長度\n\n06:57.574 --> 07:11.803\n明年度我們的預算,其實這是持續性的計畫,所以還是有裂案。我不知道經濟部在這個配電線路的地下化工程裡頭,編列了多少預算?\n\n07:11.803 --> 07:13.804\n你們打算怎麼做?\n\n07:13.804 --> 07:23.971\n這一次在沿海地區受創嚴重,有沒有思考過把沿海地區的這一些電線桿全部地下化?\n\n07:24.807 --> 07:24.827\n國務委員\n\n07:41.841 --> 08:05.968\n陳其邁市長在風災之後跟我通了至少6次以上的電話,充分告訴我路數、公園裡面的大樹、青島的狀況,而且壓到電線桿,讓復電相當的困難,所以我們積極去處理。再來你看平鵝公路,我們這次上禮拜六到屏東去的時候,確實經過那段路,鄭德城路委員所說的,它並不會造成\n\n08:06.288 --> 08:08.469\n這個您剛才所指導的這個臺電公司我想我們會通盤的考量那這個在地質地理上面如果在技術上可行的話我們會去做\n\n08:35.094 --> 08:35.134\n主席\n\n08:55.202 --> 09:23.409\n反而更慘,所以我們會衡量技術上面可以處理的方式。我覺得技術上,因為你們現在一直在講所謂的韌性電網這件事情,如果韌性電網這個事情能夠達成的話,我覺得運用現在的這些科技的技術,應該去好好的思考。另外第二個呢,我剛剛還沒講完,就是說電感如果不能地下化,旁邊種植的行道數就很重要了。\n\n09:24.510 --> 09:26.114\n院長您同意我的看法嗎?\n\n09:26.114 --> 09:30.266\n剛剛您看到的那些照片,可不可以再把我調回去剛剛的那些照片?\n\n09:32.936 --> 09:58.759\n這一排的路數,種這個是什麼?黑板樹啦!黑板樹很怕,只要風來,一吹它就倒了。黑板樹,小葉蘭仁,是在南部地區種最多的行道樹。它最容易折斷,最容易勾斷電線,甚至折斷電線桿。所以這個在河堤道路上面,這個是屬於經濟部水利署的河川道路,這個大概幾千棵的黑板樹。\n\n09:59.795 --> 10:14.130\n我們期待是不是經濟部能夠跟農業部來做合作,農業部有這個臨時所,他們有去研究哪一些樹種是比較適合當行道樹的,你們可不可以跟臨時所來做合作,把這樣的樹種全部換掉,\n\n10:14.991 --> 10:15.751\n部長您同意我的看法嗎?\n\n10:30.981 --> 10:53.686\n是,我們會完全依照這個委員的這個指示,我們會馬上跟這個農業部來協商,那用農業部他們很專業,他們可以知道哪一些樹可以對這個環境會比較好,甚至於我們在找說哪一些樹對二氧化碳的這個吸收會比較大,來提供這個環境,優質的環境,這個我們馬上會進行的。\n\n10:56.147 --> 11:17.639\n我們在農業部裡頭培養了很多的林業博士我跟委員報告就是說以平和公路為例就是在整個在電纜地下挖的同時我們就組成了一個團隊然後包括數種的選擇在不同地區的數種的選擇然後適合這種不同地形跟地貌的部分所以後續\n\n11:18.419 --> 11:36.410\n我們在處理這個部分,我想我們也會跟經濟部合作,會組成一個數種選擇,甚至包括種植的輔導,我們都會來處理。好,我想這個部分,其實不單只是因為高雄這一次受到十七疾風,所以受創慘重,院長如果您這幾天有空到高雄來看一看的話,\n\n11:37.290 --> 11:37.410\n議員長您看過這個嗎?\n\n12:06.072 --> 12:25.363\n光電隧道在高速公路上面是2022年蘇貞昌當院長的時候我曾經在這裡質詢過蘇院長告訴我說這是一個可以思考的路徑因為國外開始在做這一類的研究了好了到了2023年奇怪都是10月份\n\n12:26.949 --> 12:54.980\n陳建仁當院長的時候我又再提了一次當時在濃水圳上面做光電板我認為這是錯誤的政策我覺得可以去思考比如說用高速公路的隔音牆把它做成一個光電隧道那行政院也認為應該可以研究可是我問了很多次交通部抵死不從能源署認為這是一個可以研究的方向能源署認為可以做交通部抵死不從\n\n12:56.411 --> 13:11.485\n院長我再讓您看這是在今年的4月18號在瑞士瑞士他們開始在計畫在公路上面建置這樣的一個太陽能板的光電隧道這是4月份的\n\n13:12.560 --> 13:29.159\n接下來讓您看這個是最新的,2024年8月份,歐洲的許多國家,包括這個TaxExplorer的報導,歐洲的許多國家開始在研究做光電隧道的可行性。\n\n13:29.779 --> 13:49.186\n光電隧道的可行性就會比如說我們不用在農地上面建置太陽能光電板不用在水準上面建置太陽能光電板運用現有的公路建置這樣的一個太陽能隧道它可以達到綠電減碳各式各樣的這樣的一個模式\n\n13:50.393 --> 14:16.051\n部長我看您一直點頭您同意我的看法基本上這個方向是可以去考慮的但是這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全這個所有的這個這個不是你這個講法跟交通不一樣我當然知道這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全包括裝置的安全交通部一直跟我說那個太陽能板只要遇到大風遇到什麼它就會飛走\n\n14:20.930 --> 14:42.245\n有一個很大的問題,包括成本建構一個這樣子的環境當然是非常的理想但是以目前的成本來考量他可能發出來的電沒有辦法抵擋我們的投資所以基於這個實驗、科學來看是沒有問題\n\n14:43.106 --> 15:08.684\n但是如果按企業經營啊,臺電來經營這個的話,可能就是不符成本。這個當然不可能是臺電去經營啊,但是我覺得是不是政府能夠研究,可以開始做一些可行性評估。跟委員報告,高峰局啊,他已經正式在說他會收集像類似這樣的國外的經驗,那收集國外經驗之前,他已經在北中南12個服務區招標完成,先在服務區做起。\n\n15:09.204 --> 15:09.424\n好,謝謝邱議瑩\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.397,"end":20.202,"text":"邱議瑩好院長好 院長這個剛剛的午餐吃得怎麼樣 中午有沒有吃飽根據"},{"start":36.772,"end":51.641,"text":"科總召、副總召跟黃國昌總召他們都好像認為這個是第一次由韓院長跟我兩位一起跟各黨團的三長一起共餐共同討論事情我們的氣氛"},{"start":52.682,"end":79.301,"text":"是相當的不錯的,但是時間還是有限,因為我要趕著回來陪各位委員打巡,所以時間是有限的。其實我覺得啦,如果有韓院長在的話,那個氣氛肯定都是會非常好啦。是不是您覺得時間上有一點短,因為要趕回來備巡,心裡總是有壓力,是不是這樣?當然這個午餐的時間就是這個樣子。剛剛我看了這個午餐結束之後,馬上媒體就有一些轉述,有一些報導。"},{"start":81.188,"end":98.466,"text":"包括黃國昌委員說,非常遺憾這一頓飯破局,行政院沒有提出任何的解方。傅坤祺委員說,非常遺憾,行政院不尊重立法院,所以沒提出任何的解方。但是您說,午餐氣氛和樂。"},{"start":99.526,"end":110.876,"text":"三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分為處理臨"},{"start":117.421,"end":133.294,"text":"在溝通進一步,不管是想和解也好,或者是大家進一步溝通的希望可是呢,國民黨跟民眾黨的總召說遺憾,他們兩個看不到希望。 院長您個人是這樣覺得嗎?"},{"start":134.827,"end":160.507,"text":"我不僅快樂要看到希望,我更希望我跟韓院長努力讓國人快樂,讓國人都看得到希望。那兩面之間就是要這樣互動,在一次的參敘當中不可能把細節問題像菜單一樣列出來這樣談。因為這個是一個參敘,它不是一個正式的協商嘛,所以你不可能在裡面去談到說你要怎麼樣做,你要怎麼樣協商,到時候會不會又有人出來咆嘯說這是密室,因為沒有公開直播。"},{"start":161.96,"end":177.249,"text":"所以未來我希望就是能夠在這樣的氣氛底下,把一些該處理的事情在大院裡面草引進行協商,盡快的集中協商。那行政會會認為我們會很樂意在這個協商過程中扮演行政院該有的角色。"},{"start":177.625,"end":205.182,"text":"韓院長我可不可以白話一點解釋你們中午的午餐就是說有一個推動的大方向大家有一個這樣的共識未來這個總預算該怎麼復違該怎麼樣去做一些調整大家內心有一個想法但是細節的部分真正落實的部分是不是還要留待韓院長來召集協商大家正式坐下來在協商的時候談"},{"start":206.002,"end":222.243,"text":"是不是我如果白話去解釋你們中午的午餐是不是可以這樣子在屬於我可以答覆的50%我認為完全正確但是我也認為不宜這個事情就丟給還院長也不宜這個樣子這需要大家共同來談所以行政院願意扮演"},{"start":223.75,"end":247.282,"text":"更重要更主要的角色來談這個事 但是談要由朝野黨團來談我覺得在立法院裡頭還是應該要保持一個快樂的心啦 如果每天在這裡像怒目金剛一樣每天在這裡一直不斷的咆哮那吃個快樂的飯你們大家都覺得這一餐飯吃得很快樂 可是有人就說我不吃午餐我都是不吃午餐的 那不知道去幹嘛呢 不在現場你們知道那麼多"},{"start":249.706,"end":268.059,"text":"這個也是不能在這裡講的公開秘密。 剛剛午餐的部分我就問到這裡。我接下來問這個大概是比較嚴肅的議題。 院長你大概知道我們高雄才剛剛經歷了這個山陀而颱風的肆虐。 給您看一下山陀而之後"},{"start":269.912,"end":293.74,"text":"的高雄的狀況十七疾風對高雄帶來重大的損失這個是在大寮的河堤路上您看到所有的電線桿斷裂樹全部倒塌那台電的工程工程人員本來說從台中以南的工程人員全部調到高雄來後來到了第二天發現"},{"start":295.04,"end":296.701,"text":"這件事情讓我們開始嚴正的思考兩個部分"},{"start":323.288,"end":347.298,"text":"一個是電感地下化到底要不要進行這個還是讓您看一下三天之後臺電的員工可以把剛剛殘破不堪的道路把它整成這樣我真的太佩服臺電的同仁的工作效率我必須再講一次我也希望部長能夠對於我們臺電的同仁多加慰勉"},{"start":349.566,"end":375.114,"text":"來 院長讓您看一下平和公路全線地下化這個是在蘇貞昌當院長的時候去做的原因就是要大幅降低遇到風災的時候大規模的停電那有沒有達成效果呢我讓您看一下這是這一次山陀而颱風在高雄市區造成了超過10萬戶以上的停電但是您可以看到"},{"start":375.894,"end":402.464,"text":"平和公路因為地下化了之後平和公路只有零星的停電事故並沒有大規模的停電所以院長想跟您進一步討論其實行政院包括臺電有編列相關的預算這個是在2017年到2019年我們有這個所謂強化配電線路防災任性計劃當時投入了70億元"},{"start":406.65,"end":412.16,"text":"做了這些事情總共大概做了有463.64公里沒有實際大概做了將近500公里的長度"},{"start":417.574,"end":431.803,"text":"明年度我們的預算,其實這是持續性的計畫,所以還是有裂案。 我不知道經濟部在這個配電線路的地下化工程裡頭,編列了多少預算?"},{"start":431.803,"end":433.804,"text":"你們打算怎麼做?"},{"start":433.804,"end":443.971,"text":"這一次在沿海地區受創嚴重,有沒有思考過把沿海地區的這一些電線桿全部地下化?"},{"start":444.807,"end":444.827,"text":"國務委員"},{"start":461.841,"end":485.968,"text":"陳其邁市長在風災之後跟我通了至少6次以上的電話,充分告訴我路數、公園裡面的大樹、青島的狀況,而且壓到電線桿,讓復電相當的困難,所以我們積極去處理。 再來你看平鵝公路,我們這次上禮拜六到屏東去的時候,確實經過那段路,鄭德城路委員所說的,它並不會造成"},{"start":486.288,"end":488.469,"text":"這個您剛才所指導的這個臺電公司我想我們會通盤的考量那這個在地質地理上面如果在技術上可行的話我們會去做"},{"start":515.094,"end":515.134,"text":"主席"},{"start":535.202,"end":563.409,"text":"反而更慘,所以我們會衡量技術上面可以處理的方式。我覺得技術上,因為你們現在一直在講所謂的韌性電網這件事情,如果韌性電網這個事情能夠達成的話,我覺得運用現在的這些科技的技術,應該去好好的思考。另外第二個呢,我剛剛還沒講完,就是說電感如果不能地下化,旁邊種植的行道數就很重要了。"},{"start":564.51,"end":566.114,"text":"院長您同意我的看法嗎?"},{"start":566.114,"end":570.266,"text":"剛剛您看到的那些照片,可不可以再把我調回去剛剛的那些照片?"},{"start":572.936,"end":598.759,"text":"這一排的路數,種這個是什麼?黑板樹啦!黑板樹很怕,只要風來,一吹它就倒了。黑板樹,小葉蘭仁,是在南部地區種最多的行道樹。它最容易折斷,最容易勾斷電線,甚至折斷電線桿。所以這個在河堤道路上面,這個是屬於經濟部水利署的河川道路,這個大概幾千棵的黑板樹。"},{"start":599.795,"end":614.13,"text":"我們期待是不是經濟部能夠跟農業部來做合作,農業部有這個臨時所,他們有去研究哪一些樹種是比較適合當行道樹的,你們可不可以跟臨時所來做合作,把這樣的樹種全部換掉,"},{"start":614.991,"end":615.751,"text":"部長您同意我的看法嗎?"},{"start":630.981,"end":653.686,"text":"是,我們會完全依照這個委員的這個指示,我們會馬上跟這個農業部來協商,那用農業部他們很專業,他們可以知道哪一些樹可以對這個環境會比較好,甚至於我們在找說哪一些樹對二氧化碳的這個吸收會比較大,來提供這個環境,優質的環境,這個我們馬上會進行的。"},{"start":656.147,"end":677.639,"text":"我們在農業部裡頭培養了很多的林業博士我跟委員報告就是說以平和公路為例就是在整個在電纜地下挖的同時我們就組成了一個團隊然後包括數種的選擇在不同地區的數種的選擇然後適合這種不同地形跟地貌的部分所以後續"},{"start":678.419,"end":696.41,"text":"我們在處理這個部分,我想我們也會跟經濟部合作,會組成一個數種選擇,甚至包括種植的輔導,我們都會來處理。好,我想這個部分,其實不單只是因為高雄這一次受到十七疾風,所以受創慘重,院長如果您這幾天有空到高雄來看一看的話,"},{"start":697.29,"end":697.41,"text":"議員長您看過這個嗎?"},{"start":726.072,"end":745.363,"text":"光電隧道在高速公路上面是2022年蘇貞昌當院長的時候我曾經在這裡質詢過蘇院長告訴我說這是一個可以思考的路徑因為國外開始在做這一類的研究了好了到了2023年奇怪都是10月份"},{"start":746.949,"end":774.98,"text":"陳建仁當院長的時候我又再提了一次當時在濃水圳上面做光電板我認為這是錯誤的政策我覺得可以去思考比如說用高速公路的隔音牆把它做成一個光電隧道那行政院也認為應該可以研究可是我問了很多次交通部抵死不從能源署認為這是一個可以研究的方向能源署認為可以做交通部抵死不從"},{"start":776.411,"end":791.485,"text":"院長我再讓您看這是在今年的4月18號在瑞士瑞士他們開始在計畫在公路上面建置這樣的一個太陽能板的光電隧道這是4月份的"},{"start":792.56,"end":809.159,"text":"接下來讓您看這個是最新的,2024年8月份,歐洲的許多國家,包括這個Tax Explorer的報導,歐洲的許多國家開始在研究做光電隧道的可行性。"},{"start":809.779,"end":829.186,"text":"光電隧道的可行性就會比如說我們不用在農地上面建置太陽能光電板不用在水準上面建置太陽能光電板運用現有的公路建置這樣的一個太陽能隧道它可以達到綠電減碳各式各樣的這樣的一個模式"},{"start":830.393,"end":856.051,"text":"部長我看您一直點頭您同意我的看法基本上這個方向是可以去考慮的但是這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全這個所有的這個這個不是你這個講法跟交通不一樣我當然知道這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全包括裝置的安全交通部一直跟我說那個太陽能板只要遇到大風遇到什麼它就會飛走"},{"start":860.93,"end":882.245,"text":"有一個很大的問題,包括成本建構一個這樣子的環境當然是非常的理想但是以目前的成本來考量他可能發出來的電沒有辦法抵擋我們的投資所以基於這個實驗、科學來看是沒有問題"},{"start":883.106,"end":908.684,"text":"但是如果按企業經營啊,臺電來經營這個的話,可能就是不符成本。 這個當然不可能是臺電去經營啊,但是我覺得是不是政府能夠研究,可以開始做一些可行性評估。 跟委員報告,高峰局啊,他已經正式在說他會收集像類似這樣的國外的經驗,那收集國外經驗之前,他已經在北中南12個服務區招標完成,先在服務區做起。"},{"start":909.204,"end":909.424,"text":"好,謝謝邱議瑩"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-4","title":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-11T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"14:46:26 - 15:02:02","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","id":155387,"gazette":{"lineno":985,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（14時46分）謝謝主席，我是不是請一下卓院長？"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員議瑩：院長好。院長，剛剛的午餐吃得怎麼樣，中午有沒有吃飽？"],["卓院長榮泰：根據柯總召、傅總召跟黃國昌總召，他們都好像認為這個是第一次由韓院長跟我兩位跟各黨團的三長一起共餐、共同討論事情，我們的氣氛是相當不錯的。"],["邱委員議瑩：氣氛不錯？好。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是時間還是有限，因為我要趕著回來陪各位委員答詢，所以時間是有限。"],["邱委員議瑩：其實我覺得如果有韓院長在的話……"],["卓院長榮泰：氣氛就很好。"],["邱委員議瑩：那個氣氛肯定都是會非常好啦，是不是您覺得時間上有一點短，因為要趕回來備詢，心裡總是有壓力，是不是這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然這個午餐的時間就是這樣子。"],["邱委員議瑩：剛剛我看了這個午餐結束之後，馬上媒體就有一些轉述、有一些報導，包括黃國昌委員說非常遺憾，這一頓飯破局，行政院沒有提出任何的解方。傅崐萁委員說非常遺憾，行政院不尊重立法院，所以沒提出任何的解方。但是您說午餐氣氛和樂、氣氛非常地好，您剛剛講到了兩句話，我覺得非常地有趣，你說快樂的人會看到希望，憂慮的人會看到遺憾，所以你是一個快樂的人，你看到了這一頓飯之後，行政、立法之間有了進一步再溝通，進一步不管是講和解也好或者是大家進一步溝通的希望，可是國民跟民眾黨的總召說遺憾，他們兩個看不到希望，院長，您個人是這樣覺得嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我不僅快樂，要看到希望，我更希望我跟韓院長努力讓國人快樂，讓國人都看得到希望。那兩院之間就是要這樣互動，在一次的餐敘當中不可能把細節、問題像菜單一樣列出來這樣談。"],["邱委員議瑩：因為這個是一個餐敘，它不是一個正式的協商……"],["卓院長榮泰：是，未來可以啟動。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你不可能在裡面去談到說你要怎麼樣做，你要怎麼樣協商。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：到時候會不會又有人出來咆哮說這是密室，因為沒有公開直播？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以未來我希望就是能夠在這樣的氣氛底下，把一些該處理的事情在大院裡面朝野進行協商，儘快啟動協商。行政院會認為，我們會很樂意在這個協商過程中扮演行政院該有的角色。"],["邱委員議瑩：院長，我可不可以白話一點解釋你們中午的午餐？就是說有一個推動的大方向，大家有一個這樣的共識，未來這個總預算該怎麼付委、該怎麼樣去做一些調整，大家內心有一個想法，但是細節的部分、真正落實的部分，是不是還要留待韓院長來召集協商，大家正式坐下來在協商的時候談？是不是？我如果白話去解釋你們中午的午餐，是不是可以這樣子……"],["卓院長榮泰：兩點答復，在屬於我可以答復的百分之五十，我認為完全正確，但是我也認為不宜把這個事情就丟給韓院長處理……"],["邱委員議瑩：還是要給院長來……"],["卓院長榮泰：也不宜這個樣子，這需要大家共同來談，所以行政院願意扮演更重要、更主要的角色來談這個事情……"],["邱委員議瑩：其實我覺得……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是談要由朝野黨團來談。"],["邱委員議瑩：我覺得在立法院裡頭還是應該保持快樂的心，如果每天在這裡像怒目金剛一樣，一直不斷地咆哮，那吃個快樂的飯，你們大家都覺得這一餐飯吃得很快樂，可是就有人說我不吃午餐、我都是不吃午餐的，那真不知道去幹嘛呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員不在現場，怎麼知道那麼多！"],["邱委員議瑩：欸！這個……這個也是不能在這裡講的公開秘密。好，院長，剛剛午餐的部分我就問到這裡，接下來我要問的是比較嚴肅的議題。","院長應該知道我們高雄才剛剛經歷山陀兒颱風的肆虐，給你看一下山陀兒之後高雄的狀況，17級風對高雄帶來重大損失，這個是在大寮的河堤路上，你看所有的電線桿斷裂，樹全部倒塌，台電本來說臺中以南的工程人員全部調到高雄來，後來到了第二天發現沒辦法，所以是全臺灣都調到高雄來，在此，我必須再一次感謝所有台電上上下下的員工，你可以看到這個電線桿斷成這樣，所以包括大發工業區、和發產業園區、整個大寮、林園地區，經歷了大概三天以上的停電，對居民來講真是苦不堪言！這件事情讓我們開始嚴正思考兩個部分，一個是電桿地下化到底要不要進行？我還是讓你看一下啦！三天之後，台電的員工可以把剛剛殘破不堪的道路整成這樣，我真的太佩服台電同仁的工作效率，我必須再講一次，也希望部長對於台電同仁能夠多加慰勉。","來！院長讓你看一下，屏鵝公路全線地下化，這個是蘇貞昌當院長的時候做的，原因就是要大幅降低遇到風災時的大規模停電，有沒有達成效果呢？這一次山陀兒颱風在高雄市區造成了超過10萬戶以上的停電，但是你可以看到屏鵝公路因為地下化之後，只有零星的停電事故，並沒有大規模停電，所以想跟院長進一步討論這個問題。其實行政院包括台電都有編列相關預算，2017年到2019年我們有所謂的強化配電線路防災韌性計畫，當時投入70億元做這些事情，總共做了463.64公里，實際大概做了將近500公里的長度，這是持續性的計畫，所以明年度應該還有列案，我不知道經濟部在配電線路地下化工程裡編列了多少預算，又打算怎麼做？但這一次沿海地區受創嚴重，有沒有思考過把沿海地區的這一些電線桿全部地下化？"],["卓院長榮泰：我先跟委員報告，等一下再請郭部長回應。我跟委員一樣，非常感謝台電員工的辛苦，更感謝高雄市民在施工當中送給他們很多飲料、慰問他們，我也會用另外的時間來感謝台電。另外，高雄陳其邁市長在風災之後跟我通了至少6次以上的電話，充分告訴我路樹、公園裡大樹傾倒的狀況，表示因壓到電線桿，讓復電相當的困難，所以我們才積極去處理。","再來你說到屏鵝公路，上禮拜六我們到屏東的時候，確實有經過那段路，正如委員所說的，它並沒有造成很大的災害……"],["邱委員議瑩：沒有大幅停電，只有零星少數的……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以這給我們一個很好的經驗，或許未來可以往這個方向走，讓現在還沒有地下化的這些電纜能夠更有韌性。有關委員剛剛提到的這部分計畫，我請郭部長來說明。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，請部長。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，你剛才所指導的台電公司部分，我們會通盤考量，如果在技術上可行的話，我們會優先去做，但是在海邊的部分，我有去看，那個有比較大的問題，就是海邊的部分我們……"],["邱委員議瑩：是怕會淹水嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：會淹水，地下電纜如果入水的話，沒有辦法修理反而更慘，所以我們會衡量技術上面可以處理的方式。"],["邱委員議瑩：我覺得在技術上，因為你們現在一直在講所謂的韌性電網這件事情，如果韌性電網這個事情能夠達成的話，我覺得運用現在這些科技的技術，應該去好好的思考。","另外第二個我剛剛還沒講完，就是電纜如果不能地下化，旁邊種植的行道樹就很重要。院長，您同意我的看法嗎？剛剛您看到的那些照片，這一排路樹種的是什麼？是黑板樹啦！黑板樹很空心，只要風一來，一吹它就倒了。黑板樹、小葉欖仁是在南部地區種最多的行道樹，它最容易折斷，最容易勾斷電線，甚至折斷電線桿。在河堤道路上面這個是屬於經濟部水利署的河川道路……"],["郭部長智輝：沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：這個大概幾千棵的黑板樹，我們期待經濟部是不是能夠跟農業部合作，農業部有林試所，他們有去研究哪一些樹種是比較適合當行道樹的，你們可不可以跟林試所合作，把這樣的樹種全部換掉？在你還不能立刻做地下化之前，把行道樹先做改變，不要讓這一些樹枝、樹幹成為停電的元兇，造成大家非常不便，甚至是造成大家搶修困難的元兇。部長，您同意我的看法嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們會完全依照委員的指示，我們會馬上跟農業部協商，因為農業部他們很專業，他們知道哪一些樹對環境會比較好，甚至於我們在找哪一些樹對二氧化碳的吸收會比較大，來提供優質環境……"],["邱委員議瑩：對，這個其實是一舉數得啦！"],["郭部長智輝：這個我們馬上會進行。"],["邱委員議瑩：我們在農業部裡頭培養了很多的林業博士啊！"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，以屏鵝公路為例，在整個電纜地下化的同時，我們就組成了一個團隊，包括在不同地區樹種的選擇、適合不同地形地貌的部分等等，後續我們在處理這個部分，我想我們也會跟經濟部合作，會組成一個團隊，對於樹種選擇，甚至於包括種植的輔導，我們都會來處理。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，我想這個部分其實不單只是……因為高雄這一次遭受17級風，所以受創慘重，院長，如果您這幾天有空到高雄來看一看的話……"],["卓院長榮泰：會，我會去。"],["邱委員議瑩：你就知道高雄到現在很多的大馬路兩旁還是有很多還沒清完的路樹，當然我們也很感謝國軍，國軍這次大概調派了超過兩千人力來協助高雄做樹木的清運。部長，您剛剛講到包括減碳等等的問題，我接下來要問的問題其實已經問很多次了，院長您看過這個嗎？光電隧道。"],["卓院長榮泰：在高速公路上面……"],["邱委員議瑩：是，2022年蘇貞昌當院長的時候，我曾經在這裡質詢過，蘇院長告訴我這是一個可以思考的路徑，因為國外開始在做這一類的研究了。到了2023年10月份陳建仁當院長的時候，我又再提了一次，當時在農水圳上面做光電板，我認為這是錯誤的政策，我覺得可以去思考，比如說用高速公路的隔音牆，把它做成一個光電隧道，行政院也認為應該可以研究，可是我問了很多次，交通部卻抵死不從，能源署認為這是一個可以研究的方向，能源署認為可以做，交通部卻抵死不從。院長我再讓您看，這是在今年4月18號在瑞士，他們開始計畫在公路上面建置這樣的太陽能板光電隧道。接下來讓您看這是最新的，2024年8月份歐洲的許多國家，包括TECH XPLORE的報導，歐洲許多國家開始在研究做光電隧道的可行性，比如我們不用在農地上面建置太陽能光電板，不用在水圳上面建置太陽能光電板，運用現有的公路建置這樣的一個太陽能隧道，就可以達到綠電、減碳、各式各樣的模式。部長，我看您一直點頭，您同意我的看法？"],["郭部長智輝：基本上這個方向是可以去考慮的，但是牽扯到交通的安全、行人的安全，這個不是……"],["邱委員議瑩：你這個講法跟交通部一樣。我當然知道這個牽扯到交通的安全、行人的安全、包括裝置的安全。交通部一直跟我說那個太陽能板只要遇到大風、遇到什麼，它就會飛走……"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：我告訴你，高雄這次17級風，也沒看到什麼太陽能板飛走啊。"],["郭部長智輝：但是這有一個很大的問題，包括成本，建構一個這樣子的環境當然是非常地理想，但是以目前的成本來考量，它可能發出來的電沒有辦法相抵我們的投資。所以如果基於實驗、科學來看，是沒有問題的；但是如果按企業經營、台電來經營這個的話，可能就是不符成本。"],["邱委員議瑩：這個當然不可能是台電去經營，但是我覺得是不是政府能夠研究，可以開始做一些可行性評估？"],["郭部長智輝：研究可以，可行性評估……"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，高公局已經正式說，它會蒐集類似像這樣的國外經驗，在蒐集國外經驗之前，它已經在北、中、南12個服務區招標完成，先在服務區做起。不管是哪一國好的例子，高公局會去蒐集，我們再來進一步研究。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。院長，我其實覺得我們一直在談光電、談能源政策，剛剛很多委員在問你們能源配比的事情，我覺得還是應該要有更多創新的想法，讓臺灣能夠在能源的這件事情上面還是持續走在世界的前端，好不好？謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱議瑩委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","接下來登記第8號邱志偉委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員邱志偉書面質詢：","議題一：台日議題（國發會、經濟部）","問題：","1.關於貿易與投資：針對2030年前達成台日貿易額提高1.5倍的目標，國發會和經濟部目前有哪些具體政策或措施來推動？如何改善台灣的投資環境，以促進日本企業增加對台投資？","2.台版晶片法適用問題：台版晶片法至今未能適用於日本企業，經濟部是否有計畫放寬研發費用和設備支出的門檻？政府如何支持日本半導體企業在台灣的投資？","3.離岸風電與產業合作：關於日本工商會提出的離岸風電國產化問題，經濟部是否有進一步的彈性政策規劃，來吸引更多日商在台投資？如何協助日本企業克服台灣的法規障礙？","4.經濟夥伴協定與關稅問題：台日經濟夥伴協定的進展如何？政府如何推動雙方降低關稅及消除非關稅壁壘，進一步促進雙邊貿易成長？","5.CPTPP加入進程：針對台灣加入CPTPP的努力，國發會與經濟部持續爭取日本等成員國的支持，並推動台灣順利加入該協定，目前進度為何？","說明：","1.2024年10月4日台北市日本工商會政策建言白皮書提出台日經濟合作的三大目標：首先，雙方貿易額希望在2030年前提升1.5倍，台灣對日出口目標達500億美元，日本對台出口750億美元。其次，雙邊投資應維持歷史最高水位，台日相互投資各20億美元。最後，雙方學生和商務交流應穩定維持並擴大，提升台日民眾互訪和留學人數。","2.白皮書中提到的五大建議包括：建立自由流通的貨物和服務制度，營造安心的投資環境，通過企業間合作強化供應鏈，促進學生和企業間的交流，及推動行政上的彈性政策。此外，白皮書也強調簽署經濟夥伴協定、降低關稅和非關稅壁壘，解除福島食品的進口限制，以促進台日雙邊的經濟發展。","3.日本工商會特別提到台版晶片法案，建議台灣放寬研發費用和設備支出的門檻，讓日商也能適用，並促請台灣政府加速加入跨太平洋夥伴全面進步協定（CPTPP）。同時，面對中國中止ECFA早收清單優惠關稅的影響，日商呼籲雙方政府早日簽署全面經濟夥伴協定，以增進彼此經濟利益。","4.國發會主委劉鏡清承諾將努力修改法令，營造適合外商投資的環境。他並指出，台日經濟合作將日益緊密，且將積極推動雙方青年在創新基地的合作與發展，進一步促進雙邊經貿往來。劉主委也承諾，會與經濟部討論離岸風電國產化等議題，以給予業者更多彈性。","議題二：農業議題（農業部）","問題：","1.鑑於近期颱風頻繁侵襲台灣，造成農業嚴重損失，又政府有關農業天然災害救助及農業保險之施政繁多，為增進相關施政績效，據農業部統計，山陀兒颱風造成農業災情嚴重，截至10月7日上午11時止，造成農業損失金額約4億9,863萬元。然而，現行辦法規定同產季農產品的現金救助僅能限領一次，無法充分反映農民的實際損失，也無法因應如凱米、山陀兒颱風接連來襲等極端氣候情形。爰請農業部提出報告，檢討現行「農業天然災害救助辦法」中對同產季農產品現金救助次數的限制，並評估放寬救助次數限制及提高補償額度之可行性，從寬從優地協助農民渡過難關。","2.此外，面對氣候變遷加劇，農業保險的重要性與日俱增，然而根據農業金融署統計，我國農業保險投保件數呈現下滑趨勢，從2022年27萬件、2023年25萬件再到2024年8月底的19萬件，若扣除強制性保險，整體覆蓋率僅17%（2024年3月止），其中近年農損情形較為嚴重的農漁產品覆蓋率更是偏低。爰此，建請農業部提出報告，評估投保誘因（如與保險公司協議提高保險給付額度，同時加強宣導並簡化投保程序）以強化我國農業韌性，協助農民更有效地因應日益頻繁的天然災害。","議題三：碳足跡登錄（經濟部）","問題：","1.隨著政府未來要求投標中小企業填報產品的碳足跡，現今中小企業是否具備足夠的技術能力與資源來進行碳足跡計算與填報？","2.針對可能的困難，政府是否有計畫提供支援或輔導措施？","3.請提供目前中小企業的總家數及具備碳足跡計算能力的企業家數。","說明：","1.工程會於9月30日的業務報告指出，未來在共同供應契約上架時，訂約機關將要求得標廠商自主提供碳排放數據，並記錄碳排量。工程會也計劃推出「碳排資料庫」，鼓勵廠商將經查證的產品碳足跡主動登錄，藉此協助政府建立各工程項目的「碳排放量標準」。然而，許多中小企業參與政府投標案件，面對未來可能的碳足跡填報要求。","議題四：能源管理法（經濟部）","問題：","1.請經濟部提出報告，評估能源管理法應納入「節能目標」以落實淨零碳排願景。","2.請經濟部提出報告，評估能源管理法研議增訂相關租稅或獎勵規定。","說明：","1.經濟部於7月30日預告能源管理法部分條文修正草案，以強化能源需求面管理、提升能源效率。本次草案重點：將再生能源及熱能納入能源項目、公開能源銷售統計資料、地方政府參與節能管理、提高罰責規定。但問題是與2018年能源管理法修正草案之修正重點相近，僅有部分調整。參考國外經驗發現，許多國家積極推動節能目標。然而，我國的能源管理法尚未納入這部分。建議政府參考歐盟能源效率指令，設定整體耗能目標與年度節能義務，並依照我國氣候變遷因應法的立法體例，將節能目標納入能源管理法，以強化節能推動的具體化。","2.相較於國外推動建築物節能的經驗，如歐盟《建築能源效率指令》提供翻新工程的財政激勵（如降低稅率）及日本《建築物節能法》採取節能措施後容積率特例不計入總面積，我國《能源管理法》在促進節能的誘因上，似乎缺乏有效的租稅或獎勵機制。建議參考《中小企業發展條例》、《環境教育法》及《廢棄物清理法》等立法體例，研擬增訂相關租稅或獎勵措施，加速提升國內整體能源效率。","議題五：減碳旗艦行動計畫（經濟部）","問題：","1.請經濟部提供減碳旗艦行動計畫。","議題六：氫能（國發會、經濟部）","問題：","1.請國發會、經濟部就氫能基礎建設提出報告。","2.請國發會、經濟部就氫能應用特色園區之建議，提出報告。","3.請國發會、經濟部提供2050氫能供應鏈旗艦規劃說明。包含為什麼要強化既有方案？為什麼要提出新增政策面向？","說明：","1.氫氣生產為發展氫能社會之基礎，美國從1970年開始便針對氫能技術展開各種研發項目的補助，包含氫氣生產、運輸、存儲和利用進行研發。目前全球仍以化石燃料產氫為主，電解產氫僅佔4%左右，主要因為電解製氫的成本較高。但基於減碳考量，美國、中國和歐洲三大經濟體未來發展趨勢仍以再生能源電解產氫為主，預期成本將下降至具有相當的市場競爭力。","2.日本是最致力於發展氫能的國家之一，其經濟產業省發布的基本氫戰略中促進了氫的採用。著眼於擴大可再生能源的使用，日本東芝等大廠與新能源產業技術綜合開發機構（NEDO）合作展開福島氫能研究場（FH2R）技術開發項目，於2018年完成建置20MW的太陽能發電設施，搭配電網電力可供10MW級製氫裝置中的水進行電解，每小時可生產、儲存和供應高達1200Nm3氫氣。隨著製氫成本的下降，輸送和分配氫氣成本將成為下一個重點課題。以液態氫型態來儲存和運送為目前國際積極發展的技術之一，可大幅減少氫氣的體積。","3.我國2050年淨零目標再生能源占比60%～70%，其中氫能占9%～12%，加上搭配碳捕捉之火力發電占20%～27%，促成整體電力供應的去碳化，不僅與日、韓等國際趨勢及作法一致，也是賴總統「綠色成長與2050淨零轉型」國家希望工程一環。","4.工研院評估我國2050年氫氣需求量約406萬噸，其中超過四成為自產、近六成需依靠進口，如何克服運輸、儲存等挑戰，即為發展氫應用的重點項目，必須建置氫經濟上下游完整產業鏈規劃，才能發揮氫應用的最大效益。為強化我國氫能技術應用、完備運儲設施、拓展進口氫氨來源，工研院建議設立北中南氫能應用特色園區。","議題七：籃球聯盟結合（公平會）","問題：","1.請公平會針對籃球聯盟合併議題，提出一份說明報告（包含五大問題）。","說明：","1.台灣職業籃球大聯盟2024年7月9日創立，查公平會業務報告卻沒有出現相關職籃聯盟合併文字！聯盟未依據公平交易法第十一條規定，用事業合併向公平會提出結合申報。公平會也未依據公平交易法針對籃球聯盟合併，有所作為。原本兩大籃球聯盟計畫合併，然而，由於部分球隊的反對與退出，最終形成了一個規模較大的新聯盟和一個規模較小的舊聯盟的局面。這樣的新格局反而引發了新的市場競爭與公平交易法相關的挑戰。","2.申報/管制三大理由","A.職籃賽事作為商業行為：球迷購票進場觀賽，賽程安排、球員技術、以及啦啦隊表演，都是影響消費者決策的關鍵。這些因素顯示職籃賽事具備商品化性質。","B.職業運動商品化的視角：從公平交易法的觀點，職籃賽事經營屬於「事業」的範疇。新聯盟的成立應該受到公平交易法的規範。","C.聯盟合併對市場競爭的影響：兩大球團聯盟合併成新聯盟可能對市場競爭造成以下影響：限制球員轉隊及轉隊賽事活動、限制球團選秀會議交涉權或與球員簽約約款、設定各球團與球員簽約金上限、規定新球團加入的條件（需現有球團同意或繳交較高加盟金）。","3.五大問題","A.市場壟斷與限制競爭：台灣職業籃球大聯盟擁有7個球隊，而PLG僅剩4隊。從市場壟斷的角度來看，是否會因為一個聯盟壟斷大部分資源、贊助商及球迷，限制其他聯盟的發展？","B.聯盟間球隊轉隊限制：若兩個聯盟存在並且球隊之間有轉隊需求，會不會出現限制球員自由轉隊的情況？這是否可能構成「限制交易」的問題？","C.薪資與簽約金限制：若兩個聯盟之間的財務結構不同，是否會導致球員簽約金上限不一致，進而造成競爭不公平？新聯盟是否會透過更高的簽約金限制吸引更多優秀球員？","D.贊助與廣告收入分配不均：贊助商和廣告商可能更傾向於資源較多或市場規模較大的聯盟，是否會造成市場競爭的不公平，並且影響較小聯盟的生存？","E.消費者選擇權：如果一個聯盟壟斷了較多資源及球員，是否會影響到球迷作為消費者的選擇權，導致市場的選擇有限，影響票房和市場活力？"],["主席：接下來我們請登記第9號陳冠廷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":19,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-11"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1137801_00001"}}}