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\"高金委員這樣子的一個誤解也好或者是他的解讀是這麼的惡意負面也好我覺得這個第一個對政黨的和解總預算的和解沒有幫助第二個我覺得也不應該讓原住民來背上這樣子的一個罪過其實原住民的權益我相信從中央到地方每一位不分黨派的委員絕對全力的支持跟捍衛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 263.431, \"end\": 263.671, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 263.671, \"end\": 263.851, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 263.851, \"end\": 264.632, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 264.632, \"end\": 264.792, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 264.792, \"end\": 264.952, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 264.952, \"end\": 266.053, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 266.053, \"end\": 266.273, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 266.273, \"end\": 266.513, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 266.513, \"end\": 267.013, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 267.013, \"end\": 267.193, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"者\", 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\"壞\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 323.797, \"end\": 324.217, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 324.217, \"end\": 324.437, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 324.437, \"end\": 324.777, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 324.777, \"end\": 325.017, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 325.017, \"end\": 325.157, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 325.157, \"end\": 325.257, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 325.257, \"end\": 325.277, \"score\": 0.051}, {\"word\": \"諧\"}]}, {\"start\": 326.198, \"end\": 326.358, \"text\": \"主席\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 326.198, \"end\": 326.338, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 326.338, \"end\": 326.358, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 338.246, \"end\": 342.289, \"text\": \"那我們請韓院長要主持公道我希望能夠要有下一次的和解飯\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 338.246, \"end\": 338.346, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", 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0.951}, {\"word\": \"養\"}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 925.289, \"end\": 925.309, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 933.51, \"end\": 933.978, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 933.978, \"end\": 933.998, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,129 --> 00:00:10,920\n謝謝主席院長我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:20,046 --> 00:00:44,905\n委員長今天很多委員都很關心這個中午吃的和解飯聽說破局了那破局的原因在於正節點是在於這個原住民的這個進法補償條例那進法補償我是想請問一下院長你在今天中午的和解飯這個參會上真的說過行政院沒對進法補償提復議案\n\n3\n00:00:47,767 --> 00:00:51,068\n這已是我對原住民的仁慈你有講過這句話嗎委員這句話問我不如問韓院長韓院長還在現場嘛對不對院長我們卓院長有講這一句話嗎那我來說我如果說錯韓院長可以隨時指正我我今天在\n\n4\n00:01:16,217 --> 00:01:35,087\n參會當中我的結論是說我這一段話我不想在備詢台上說但是有人把它講出來了所以我就把它說出來我說進法補償這個法通過之後很多人認為我們站在憲政分立的立場上行政院必須提復議\n\n5\n00:01:36,550 --> 00:01:55,985\n但我堅持不願意,我覺得我於心不忍對原住民造成這樣的對立,所以我於心不忍。這兩句話,這句話難道是仁慈的施捨嗎?所以總院長,這個剛剛還是你還原今天中和解犯犯局上真正的\n\n6\n00:01:57,571 --> 00:02:23,311\n一字不漏的言議。是,我是這樣講,我說我非常不願意,因為我於心不忍,我真的是不想造成這樣的對立。是,因為我不願意看到對於禁法補償的這一件事情,變成是在野黨背革整個中央政府總預算的一個理由。現在變成說,用我說我是對原住民的人質,好像我是施政,我從來不會有這樣的想法。\n\n7\n00:02:24,025 --> 00:02:26,967\n我相信卓院長絕對不會有這樣的想法所以造謠就是不對\n\n8\n00:02:43,274 --> 00:03:07,208\n我要攪清楚到底是誰講出去,難怪...我覺得是就是不是就不是,而且今天和解犯的這個犯局裡面不是只有韓院長跟卓院長,還有其他人,那現場的每一個人都可以來還原,而且呢,來肯認到底剛剛卓院長的那每一個字,每一...那一句,到底是不是...\n\n9\n00:03:07,648 --> 00:03:36,516\n我也謝謝這個韓院長人稱公道主持中立還有我們秘書長也在現場我再重複一次我再重複一次我再重複一次我說很多人希望我在那個時候提出復議我說我非常不願意因為我於心不忍就是會造成這樣的對立我真的不願意這句話絕對不能說是我對原住民的仁慈好像有施捨的樣子\n\n10\n00:03:37,964 --> 00:03:52,502\n這個話如果從高金委員的嘴巴講出來,我就要希望是誰告訴他的,那就是破壞整個今天中午吃飯的氣氛。如果沒有人告訴他,這兩個字從何而來,憑空而出。\n\n11\n00:03:53,633 --> 00:04:22,811\n為的就是要製造另一場紛亂而已是所以院長我今天的質詢第一部分為什麼要問這個第一個我們希望真的要和解我們希望政府的總預算案要趕快的來進入立法院我們希望趕快三度通過有很多很多的預算都必須要被執行這第一個第二個我們認為這個和解犯的犯局裡面這個很多人都在現場是可以作證那到底為何會有\n\n12\n00:04:23,431 --> 00:04:49,425\n高金委員這樣子的一個誤解也好或者是他的解讀是這麼的惡意負面也好我覺得這個第一個對政黨的和解總預算的和解沒有幫助第二個我覺得也不應該讓原住民來背上這樣子的一個罪過其實原住民的權益我相信從中央到地方每一位不分黨派的委員絕對全力的支持跟捍衛\n\n13\n00:04:50,766 --> 00:04:51,247\n沒有錯,我說\n\n14\n00:04:59,761 --> 00:05:25,277\n也許啦在這邊動之以情的講話我都深受感動但是原則不能破壞兩院之間的院計分立不能破壞行政院負責的是制定編列預算大院負責的是審查預算如果一個法律就能通過一筆預算不在預算的大小而在這個精神這個原則之所在我必須嚴守這樣的立場這個是絕對不能破壞的但是為了兩院的和諧\n\n15\n00:05:26,198 --> 00:05:26,358\n主席\n\n16\n00:05:38,246 --> 00:05:42,289\n那我們請韓院長要主持公道我希望能夠要有下一次的和解飯\n\n17\n00:05:58,621 --> 00:06:01,444\n所以誰願意希望趕快進行,有誰在破壞應該看得很清楚。\n\n18\n00:06:17,292 --> 00:06:32,981\n好謝謝院長的說明我相信這應該非常的清楚非常的明白而且還原今天中午和解飯裡面的每一個字每一句話那接下來我要請教院長我關心很多其他的民生的議題\n\n19\n00:06:34,202 --> 00:06:55,664\n我之前在交通委員會上有跟交通部在提到這個外送平台這個運費的法制化那我提到這個目的是第一個消費者外送員還有小店家的權益問題那你知道交通部現在有訂了一個外送費率然後希望各縣市一定質疑而且預計11月要上路院長你知道這件事嗎\n\n20\n00:06:56,224 --> 00:07:21,350\n現在在公告期間,也希望各界來提供各種更好的意見來補足他,如果他有私律上必須周全的地方,也都願意來接受外界各地的這個意見,這個是公告。我現在是提醒院長,這個會有部會之間的不協調,交通部現在預告了,預告了之後當然希望各界來提意見,但是在另外一方面,\n\n21\n00:07:22,998 --> 00:07:51,297\n我在立法院推動的是這個外送平台的運費必須透明化合理化透明化合理化就來自於剛剛院長講的在交通部現在預告的執法規裡面希望有更多各界來提供意見我們希望讓它更透明化合理化但是呢公民會主委已經站在你旁邊了兩大外送平台送過要申請併購那還未立案但是但是正在補件\n\n22\n00:07:53,234 --> 00:08:21,434\n我希望這個行政院跟公平會這個態度立場要明確啦為什麼要明確如果他在補件成功之後立案之後那就要開始審酌他到底允不允許合併但是在這個還沒有確定有沒有合併之前呢交通部的費率已經預告那會產生什麼問題院長第一個公平會的委員人事案\n\n23\n00:08:22,415 --> 00:08:50,386\n我們有幾個委員任期快到了那如果接下來在今年下半年這個我們的人事案呢如果沒有辦法順利的推動的話沒有辦法順利的過關的話那公平會的功能可能受到很大的影響那未來因應如果呢像兩大外送平台他們要合併的案子補件補完成了送進來了可是卻碰到沒有辦法審\n\n24\n00:08:51,431 --> 00:08:54,014\n公平會有4位委員任期到,我們必須在10月底之前把這個人選能夠確定下來,目前正在作業當中。\n\n25\n00:09:11,135 --> 00:09:11,355\n主席\n\n26\n00:09:26,703 --> 00:09:52,872\n這樣情況底下但是如果讓他形成一個壟斷對社會壟斷的行為我想在公平會的公平交易當中是一個相當矛盾的那這個部分我請主委來說明等一下請主委說明之前院長你剛剛講我們公平會委員的人事案你10月要開始作業已經在作業了已經開始作業10月底之前那院長你有信心說在我們今年年底之前我們所有人事案可以抵定嗎\n\n27\n00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:23,539\n我當然很希望能夠照時間走那公平會這個因為比較沒有政治性我們也希望能夠在人選的選擇上比較沒有政治性我們希望人選一出來的時候我們立法院呢草野大家不同政黨都能夠支持我為什麼要這樣子講因為如果呢有人不支持如果呢我們公平會的人事沒辦法通過的話會有一個空窗期那如果在這個空窗期的期間這個外送平台的合併的案子啊\n\n28\n00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:46,391\n立案送進來審議,結果呢我們公平問啊,沒辦法審啊,在空轉啊,那到法定的審期的審查的期限如果過的話,那會不會產生還沒有審,也沒辦法審的情況之下,審查期限過了,那外送平台在沒有審的情況之下就合併了,有沒有這樣的可能性,主委?\n\n29\n00:10:47,193 --> 00:10:47,613\n對阿院長我現在擔心的是這個阿\n\n30\n00:11:04,564 --> 00:11:30,015\n在我們目前審核的過程當中因為資料還沒有齊備等到資料齊備之後我們對於這個結合之後結合事業會不會濫用市場的地位去做價格的決定這也是我們很重要的考量因素我今天關心兩個點說給院長聽請院長能夠關注第一個點如果公平會的人事案沒有辦法如期及時來通過\n\n31\n00:11:32,276 --> 00:11:57,803\n那會有一個空窗期而這個空窗期的期間如果事業體外送平台他們兩家的合併案案件補件完成送進來了沒有人可以審查程序沒有辦法進行在公平交易法的法定的期限審查期限一過之後剛剛主委講的事業申請的事業體可以進行對不對\n\n32\n00:11:59,483 --> 00:12:24,798\n這是我擔心,我也是要說給很多很多的國人清楚知道如果公平會的人事案如果沒有辦法正常的通過正常的運行的話他影響的是民生的議題影響的是民生的議題所以這個問題我請院長要多多關注我希望不要有這個情況發生第二個我擔心的\n\n33\n00:12:26,311 --> 00:12:52,933\n這個是立場的宣示啦兩大外送平台的這個併購剛剛主委講的啊我們在審查就是他會不會壟斷市場嘛如果真的讓他併了之後一家獨大就是獨佔啊一家獨大就是獨佔啊那什麼小店家擔心消費者擔心大家擔心什麼市場被壟斷外送員擔心什麼他沒保障因為呢只有一家他們最大說了算消費者擔心什麼會漲價\n\n34\n00:12:54,724 --> 00:13:15,553\n我是堅決反對啦我不知道行政院院長你的態度勒剛剛已經跟委員報告過我們在公平教育的原則底下行程對社會壟斷的行為都違反都跟這個原則相對矛盾所以我相信公平會現在或是未來的委員一定會本著良心跟專業來做這樣的判斷\n\n35\n00:13:17,383 --> 00:13:18,664\n各界的意見各界的權益\n\n36\n00:13:40,454 --> 00:14:05,876\n應該受保障不可以被壟斷不可以被獨佔這是民眾所關心的拜託主委拜託院長我們會盡快把這個人選人選送到大院來希望時間能夠長我也希望在野黨不要黨這是關心民生的議題希望能夠順利的來通過最後一分多鐘我請教院長其實我們很擔心什麼少子女化的對策因應問題\n\n37\n00:14:07,537 --> 00:14:34,865\n我們知道在賴總統不管他在8月15號他的喊話或者是今年的國慶日他說要跨世代的照顧那其中一個就是對於年輕家庭跟孩子因為我們行政院投入了很多的資源就是希望因應台灣的少子女化那要搶救台灣的生產力一個不算少兩個恰恰好三個多麼好院長這個是我們的目標對不對\n\n38\n00:14:37,522 --> 00:15:02,585\n問題是少子女化的威力太強大了,我們今年是農年,農年寶寶國慶寶寶,昨天國慶日接生聽說很冷,挽救不了出生率,而且推估我們今年農年可能出生率就跟去年差不多,人數也跟去年差不多,院長你對少子女化的對策有沒有加碼的空間,願不願意再加碼?\n\n39\n00:15:03,428 --> 00:15:25,309\n我們最近很積極在討論現在這個階段的人口政策甚至我們要提出的是人口的對策我們想要一整套的計畫那這個國發會已經很積極在討論了那中間好幾項目前都還在思考的過程當中從大家多鼓勵大家多婚多生但是政府要做更多的公托養育\n\n40\n00:15:33,510 --> 00:15:33,998\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7129\t10920\t謝謝主席院長我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n20046\t44905\t委員長今天很多委員都很關心這個中午吃的和解飯聽說破局了那破局的原因在於正節點是在於這個原住民的這個進法補償條例那進法補償我是想請問一下 院長你在今天中午的和解飯這個參會上真的說過行政院沒對進法補償提復議案\n47767\t51068\t這已是我對原住民的仁慈你有講過這句話嗎委員這句話問我不如問韓院長韓院長還在現場嘛對不對院長我們卓院長有講這一句話嗎那我來說我如果說錯韓院長可以隨時指正我我今天在\n76217\t95087\t參會當中我的結論是說我這一段話我不想在備詢台上說但是有人把它講出來了所以我就把它說出來我說進法補償這個法通過之後很多人認為我們站在憲政分立的立場上行政院必須提復議\n96550\t115985\t但我堅持不願意,我覺得我於心不忍對原住民造成這樣的對立,所以我於心不忍。這兩句話,這句話難道是仁慈的施捨嗎?所以總院長,這個剛剛還是你還原今天中和解犯犯局上真正的\n117571\t143311\t一字不漏的言議。 是,我是這樣講,我說我非常不願意,因為我於心不忍,我真的是不想造成這樣的對立。 是,因為我不願意看到對於禁法補償的這一件事情,變成是在野黨背革整個中央政府總預算的一個理由。 現在變成說,用我說我是對原住民的人質,好像我是施政,我從來不會有這樣的想法。\n144025\t146967\t我相信卓院長 絕對不會有這樣的想法所以造謠就是不對\n163274\t187208\t我要攪清楚到底是誰講出去,難怪...我覺得是就是不是就不是,而且今天和解犯的這個犯局裡面不是只有韓院長跟卓院長,還有其他人,那現場的每一個人都可以來還原,而且呢,來肯認到底剛剛卓院長的那每一個字,每一...那一句,到底是不是...\n187648\t216516\t我也謝謝這個韓院長人稱公道主持中立還有我們秘書長也在現場我再重複一次我再重複一次我再重複一次我說很多人希望我在那個時候提出復議我說我非常不願意因為我於心不忍就是會造成這樣的對立我真的不願意這句話絕對不能說是我對原住民的仁慈好像有施捨的樣子\n217964\t232502\t這個話如果從高金委員的嘴巴講出來,我就要希望是誰告訴他的,那就是破壞整個今天中午吃飯的氣氛。如果沒有人告訴他,這兩個字從何而來,憑空而出。\n233633\t262811\t為的就是要製造另一場紛亂而已是所以院長我今天的質詢第一部分為什麼要問這個第一個我們希望真的要和解我們希望政府的總預算案要趕快的來進入立法院我們希望趕快三度通過有很多很多的預算都必須要被執行這第一個第二個我們認為這個和解犯的犯局裡面這個很多人都在現場是可以作證那到底為何會有\n263431\t289425\t高金委員這樣子的一個誤解也好或者是他的解讀是這麼的惡意負面也好我覺得這個第一個對政黨的和解總預算的和解沒有幫助第二個我覺得也不應該讓原住民來背上這樣子的一個罪過其實原住民的權益我相信從中央到地方每一位不分黨派的委員絕對全力的支持跟捍衛\n290766\t291247\t沒有錯,我說\n299761\t325277\t也許啦在這邊動之以情的講話我都深受感動但是原則不能破壞兩院之間的院計分立不能破壞行政院負責的是制定編列預算大院負責的是審查預算如果一個法律就能通過一筆預算不在預算的大小而在這個精神這個原則之所在我必須嚴守這樣的立場這個是絕對不能破壞的但是為了兩院的和諧\n326198\t326358\t主席\n338246\t342289\t那我們請韓院長要主持公道我希望能夠要有下一次的和解飯\n358621\t361444\t所以誰願意希望趕快進行,有誰在破壞應該看得很清楚。\n377292\t392981\t好 謝謝院長的說明我相信這應該非常的清楚非常的明白而且還原今天中午和解飯裡面的每一個字每一句話那接下來我要請教院長我關心很多其他的民生的議題\n394202\t415664\t我之前在交通委員會上有跟交通部在提到這個外送平台這個運費的法制化那我提到這個目的是第一個消費者外送員還有小店家的權益問題那你知道交通部現在有訂了一個外送費率然後希望各縣市一定質疑而且預計11月要上路院長你知道這件事嗎\n416224\t441350\t現在在公告期間,也希望各界來提供各種更好的意見來補足他,如果他有私律上必須周全的地方,也都願意來接受外界各地的這個意見,這個是公告。我現在是提醒院長,這個會有部會之間的不協調,交通部現在預告了,預告了之後當然希望各界來提意見,但是在另外一方面,\n442998\t471297\t我在立法院推動的是這個外送平台的運費必須透明化合理化透明化合理化就來自於剛剛院長講的在交通部現在預告的執法規裡面希望有更多各界來提供意見我們希望讓它更透明化合理化但是呢公民會主委已經站在你旁邊了兩大外送平台送過要申請併購那還未立案但是但是正在補件\n473234\t501434\t我希望這個行政院跟公平會這個態度立場要明確啦為什麼要明確如果他在補件成功之後立案之後那就要開始審酌他到底允不允許合併但是在這個還沒有確定有沒有合併之前呢交通部的費率已經預告那會產生什麼問題院長第一個公平會的委員人事案\n502415\t530386\t我們有幾個委員任期快到了那如果接下來在今年下半年這個我們的人事案呢如果沒有辦法順利的推動的話沒有辦法順利的過關的話那公平會的功能可能受到很大的影響那未來因應如果呢像兩大外送平台他們要合併的案子補件補完成了送進來了可是卻碰到沒有辦法審\n531431\t534014\t公平會有4位委員任期到,我們必須在10月底之前把這個人選能夠確定下來,目前正在作業當中。\n551135\t551355\t主席\n566703\t592872\t這樣情況底下但是如果讓他形成一個壟斷對社會壟斷的行為我想在公平會的公平交易當中是一個相當矛盾的那這個部分我請主委來說明等一下請主委說明之前院長你剛剛講我們公平會委員的人事案你10月要開始作業已經在作業了已經開始作業10月底之前那院長你有信心說在我們今年年底之前我們所有人事案可以抵定嗎\n595080\t623539\t我當然很希望能夠照時間走那公平會這個因為比較沒有政治性我們也希望能夠在人選的選擇上比較沒有政治性我們希望人選一出來的時候我們立法院呢草野大家不同政黨都能夠支持我為什麼要這樣子講因為如果呢有人不支持如果呢我們公平會的人事沒辦法通過的話會有一個空窗期那如果在這個空窗期的期間這個外送平台的合併的案子啊\n624480\t646391\t立案送進來審議,結果呢我們公平問啊,沒辦法審啊,在空轉啊,那到法定的審期的審查的期限如果過的話,那會不會產生還沒有審,也沒辦法審的情況之下,審查期限過了,那外送平台在沒有審的情況之下就合併了,有沒有這樣的可能性,主委?\n647193\t647613\t對阿院長我現在擔心的是這個阿\n664564\t690015\t在我們目前審核的過程當中因為資料還沒有齊備等到資料齊備之後我們對於這個結合之後結合事業會不會濫用市場的地位去做價格的決定這也是我們很重要的考量因素我今天關心兩個點說給院長聽請院長能夠關注第一個點如果公平會的人事案沒有辦法如期及時來通過\n692276\t717803\t那會有一個空窗期而這個空窗期的期間如果事業體外送平台他們兩家的合併案案件補件完成送進來了沒有人可以審查程序沒有辦法進行在公平交易法的法定的期限審查期限一過之後剛剛主委講的事業申請的事業體可以進行對不對\n719483\t744798\t這是我擔心,我也是要說給很多很多的國人清楚知道如果公平會的人事案如果沒有辦法正常的通過正常的運行的話他影響的是民生的議題影響的是民生的議題所以這個問題我請院長要多多關注我希望不要有這個情況發生第二個我擔心的\n746311\t772933\t這個是立場的宣示啦兩大外送平台的這個併購剛剛主委講的啊我們在審查就是他會不會壟斷市場嘛如果真的讓他併了之後一家獨大就是獨佔啊一家獨大就是獨佔啊那什麼小店家擔心消費者擔心大家擔心什麼市場被壟斷外送員擔心什麼他沒保障因為呢只有一家他們最大說了算消費者擔心什麼會漲價\n774724\t795553\t我是堅決反對啦 我不知道行政院院長你的態度勒剛剛已經跟委員報告過 我們在公平教育的原則底下 行程對社會壟斷的行為都違反 都跟這個原則相對矛盾 所以我相信公平會現在或是未來的委員 一定會本著良心跟專業來做這樣的判斷\n797383\t798664\t各界的意見各界的權益\n820454\t845876\t應該受保障不可以被壟斷不可以被獨佔這是民眾所關心的拜託主委拜託院長我們會盡快把這個人選人選送到大院來希望時間能夠長我也希望在野黨不要黨這是關心民生的議題希望能夠順利的來通過最後一分多鐘我請教院長其實我們很擔心什麼少子女化的對策因應問題\n847537\t874865\t我們知道在賴總統不管他在8月15號他的喊話或者是今年的國慶日他說要跨世代的照顧那其中一個就是對於年輕家庭跟孩子因為我們行政院投入了很多的資源就是希望因應台灣的少子女化那要搶救台灣的生產力一個不算少兩個恰恰好三個多麼好院長這個是我們的目標對不對\n877522\t902585\t問題是少子女化的威力太強大了,我們今年是農年,農年寶寶國慶寶寶,昨天國慶日接生聽說很冷,挽救不了出生率,而且推估我們今年農年可能出生率就跟去年差不多,人數也跟去年差不多,院長你對少子女化的對策有沒有加碼的空間,願不願意再加碼?\n903428\t925309\t我們最近很積極在討論現在這個階段的人口政策甚至我們要提出的是人口的對策我們想要一整套的計畫那這個國發會已經很積極在討論了那中間好幾項目前都還在思考的過程當中從大家多鼓勵大家多婚多生但是政府要做更多的公托養育\n933510\t933998\t主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席院長我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n委員長今天很多委員都很關心這個中午吃的和解飯聽說破局了那破局的原因在於正節點是在於這個原住民的這個進法補償條例那進法補償我是想請問一下 院長你在今天中午的和解飯這個參會上真的說過行政院沒對進法補償提復議案\n這已是我對原住民的仁慈你有講過這句話嗎委員這句話問我不如問韓院長韓院長還在現場嘛對不對院長我們卓院長有講這一句話嗎那我來說我如果說錯韓院長可以隨時指正我我今天在\n參會當中我的結論是說我這一段話我不想在備詢台上說但是有人把它講出來了所以我就把它說出來我說進法補償這個法通過之後很多人認為我們站在憲政分立的立場上行政院必須提復議\n但我堅持不願意,我覺得我於心不忍對原住民造成這樣的對立,所以我於心不忍。這兩句話,這句話難道是仁慈的施捨嗎?所以總院長,這個剛剛還是你還原今天中和解犯犯局上真正的\n一字不漏的言議。 是,我是這樣講,我說我非常不願意,因為我於心不忍,我真的是不想造成這樣的對立。 是,因為我不願意看到對於禁法補償的這一件事情,變成是在野黨背革整個中央政府總預算的一個理由。 現在變成說,用我說我是對原住民的人質,好像我是施政,我從來不會有這樣的想法。\n我相信卓院長 絕對不會有這樣的想法所以造謠就是不對\n我要攪清楚到底是誰講出去,難怪...我覺得是就是不是就不是,而且今天和解犯的這個犯局裡面不是只有韓院長跟卓院長,還有其他人,那現場的每一個人都可以來還原,而且呢,來肯認到底剛剛卓院長的那每一個字,每一...那一句,到底是不是...\n我也謝謝這個韓院長人稱公道主持中立還有我們秘書長也在現場我再重複一次我再重複一次我再重複一次我說很多人希望我在那個時候提出復議我說我非常不願意因為我於心不忍就是會造成這樣的對立我真的不願意這句話絕對不能說是我對原住民的仁慈好像有施捨的樣子\n這個話如果從高金委員的嘴巴講出來,我就要希望是誰告訴他的,那就是破壞整個今天中午吃飯的氣氛。如果沒有人告訴他,這兩個字從何而來,憑空而出。\n為的就是要製造另一場紛亂而已是所以院長我今天的質詢第一部分為什麼要問這個第一個我們希望真的要和解我們希望政府的總預算案要趕快的來進入立法院我們希望趕快三度通過有很多很多的預算都必須要被執行這第一個第二個我們認為這個和解犯的犯局裡面這個很多人都在現場是可以作證那到底為何會有\n高金委員這樣子的一個誤解也好或者是他的解讀是這麼的惡意負面也好我覺得這個第一個對政黨的和解總預算的和解沒有幫助第二個我覺得也不應該讓原住民來背上這樣子的一個罪過其實原住民的權益我相信從中央到地方每一位不分黨派的委員絕對全力的支持跟捍衛\n沒有錯,我說\n也許啦在這邊動之以情的講話我都深受感動但是原則不能破壞兩院之間的院計分立不能破壞行政院負責的是制定編列預算大院負責的是審查預算如果一個法律就能通過一筆預算不在預算的大小而在這個精神這個原則之所在我必須嚴守這樣的立場這個是絕對不能破壞的但是為了兩院的和諧\n主席\n那我們請韓院長要主持公道我希望能夠要有下一次的和解飯\n所以誰願意希望趕快進行,有誰在破壞應該看得很清楚。\n好 謝謝院長的說明我相信這應該非常的清楚非常的明白而且還原今天中午和解飯裡面的每一個字每一句話那接下來我要請教院長我關心很多其他的民生的議題\n我之前在交通委員會上有跟交通部在提到這個外送平台這個運費的法制化那我提到這個目的是第一個消費者外送員還有小店家的權益問題那你知道交通部現在有訂了一個外送費率然後希望各縣市一定質疑而且預計11月要上路院長你知道這件事嗎\n現在在公告期間,也希望各界來提供各種更好的意見來補足他,如果他有私律上必須周全的地方,也都願意來接受外界各地的這個意見,這個是公告。我現在是提醒院長,這個會有部會之間的不協調,交通部現在預告了,預告了之後當然希望各界來提意見,但是在另外一方面,\n我在立法院推動的是這個外送平台的運費必須透明化合理化透明化合理化就來自於剛剛院長講的在交通部現在預告的執法規裡面希望有更多各界來提供意見我們希望讓它更透明化合理化但是呢公民會主委已經站在你旁邊了兩大外送平台送過要申請併購那還未立案但是但是正在補件\n我希望這個行政院跟公平會這個態度立場要明確啦為什麼要明確如果他在補件成功之後立案之後那就要開始審酌他到底允不允許合併但是在這個還沒有確定有沒有合併之前呢交通部的費率已經預告那會產生什麼問題院長第一個公平會的委員人事案\n我們有幾個委員任期快到了那如果接下來在今年下半年這個我們的人事案呢如果沒有辦法順利的推動的話沒有辦法順利的過關的話那公平會的功能可能受到很大的影響那未來因應如果呢像兩大外送平台他們要合併的案子補件補完成了送進來了可是卻碰到沒有辦法審\n公平會有4位委員任期到,我們必須在10月底之前把這個人選能夠確定下來,目前正在作業當中。\n主席\n這樣情況底下但是如果讓他形成一個壟斷對社會壟斷的行為我想在公平會的公平交易當中是一個相當矛盾的那這個部分我請主委來說明等一下請主委說明之前院長你剛剛講我們公平會委員的人事案你10月要開始作業已經在作業了已經開始作業10月底之前那院長你有信心說在我們今年年底之前我們所有人事案可以抵定嗎\n我當然很希望能夠照時間走那公平會這個因為比較沒有政治性我們也希望能夠在人選的選擇上比較沒有政治性我們希望人選一出來的時候我們立法院呢草野大家不同政黨都能夠支持我為什麼要這樣子講因為如果呢有人不支持如果呢我們公平會的人事沒辦法通過的話會有一個空窗期那如果在這個空窗期的期間這個外送平台的合併的案子啊\n立案送進來審議,結果呢我們公平問啊,沒辦法審啊,在空轉啊,那到法定的審期的審查的期限如果過的話,那會不會產生還沒有審,也沒辦法審的情況之下,審查期限過了,那外送平台在沒有審的情況之下就合併了,有沒有這樣的可能性,主委?\n對阿院長我現在擔心的是這個阿\n在我們目前審核的過程當中因為資料還沒有齊備等到資料齊備之後我們對於這個結合之後結合事業會不會濫用市場的地位去做價格的決定這也是我們很重要的考量因素我今天關心兩個點說給院長聽請院長能夠關注第一個點如果公平會的人事案沒有辦法如期及時來通過\n那會有一個空窗期而這個空窗期的期間如果事業體外送平台他們兩家的合併案案件補件完成送進來了沒有人可以審查程序沒有辦法進行在公平交易法的法定的期限審查期限一過之後剛剛主委講的事業申請的事業體可以進行對不對\n這是我擔心,我也是要說給很多很多的國人清楚知道如果公平會的人事案如果沒有辦法正常的通過正常的運行的話他影響的是民生的議題影響的是民生的議題所以這個問題我請院長要多多關注我希望不要有這個情況發生第二個我擔心的\n這個是立場的宣示啦兩大外送平台的這個併購剛剛主委講的啊我們在審查就是他會不會壟斷市場嘛如果真的讓他併了之後一家獨大就是獨佔啊一家獨大就是獨佔啊那什麼小店家擔心消費者擔心大家擔心什麼市場被壟斷外送員擔心什麼他沒保障因為呢只有一家他們最大說了算消費者擔心什麼會漲價\n我是堅決反對啦 我不知道行政院院長你的態度勒剛剛已經跟委員報告過 我們在公平教育的原則底下 行程對社會壟斷的行為都違反 都跟這個原則相對矛盾 所以我相信公平會現在或是未來的委員 一定會本著良心跟專業來做這樣的判斷\n各界的意見各界的權益\n應該受保障不可以被壟斷不可以被獨佔這是民眾所關心的拜託主委拜託院長我們會盡快把這個人選人選送到大院來希望時間能夠長我也希望在野黨不要黨這是關心民生的議題希望能夠順利的來通過最後一分多鐘我請教院長其實我們很擔心什麼少子女化的對策因應問題\n我們知道在賴總統不管他在8月15號他的喊話或者是今年的國慶日他說要跨世代的照顧那其中一個就是對於年輕家庭跟孩子因為我們行政院投入了很多的資源就是希望因應台灣的少子女化那要搶救台灣的生產力一個不算少兩個恰恰好三個多麼好院長這個是我們的目標對不對\n問題是少子女化的威力太強大了,我們今年是農年,農年寶寶國慶寶寶,昨天國慶日接生聽說很冷,挽救不了出生率,而且推估我們今年農年可能出生率就跟去年差不多,人數也跟去年差不多,院長你對少子女化的對策有沒有加碼的空間,願不願意再加碼?\n我們最近很積極在討論現在這個階段的人口政策甚至我們要提出的是人口的對策我們想要一整套的計畫那這個國發會已經很積極在討論了那中間好幾項目前都還在思考的過程當中從大家多鼓勵大家多婚多生但是政府要做更多的公托養育\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.129 --> 00:10.920\n謝謝主席院長我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:20.046 --> 00:44.905\n委員長今天很多委員都很關心這個中午吃的和解飯聽說破局了那破局的原因在於正節點是在於這個原住民的這個進法補償條例那進法補償我是想請問一下院長你在今天中午的和解飯這個參會上真的說過行政院沒對進法補償提復議案\n\n00:47.767 --> 00:51.068\n這已是我對原住民的仁慈你有講過這句話嗎委員這句話問我不如問韓院長韓院長還在現場嘛對不對院長我們卓院長有講這一句話嗎那我來說我如果說錯韓院長可以隨時指正我我今天在\n\n01:16.217 --> 01:35.087\n參會當中我的結論是說我這一段話我不想在備詢台上說但是有人把它講出來了所以我就把它說出來我說進法補償這個法通過之後很多人認為我們站在憲政分立的立場上行政院必須提復議\n\n01:36.550 --> 01:55.985\n但我堅持不願意,我覺得我於心不忍對原住民造成這樣的對立,所以我於心不忍。這兩句話,這句話難道是仁慈的施捨嗎?所以總院長,這個剛剛還是你還原今天中和解犯犯局上真正的\n\n01:57.571 --> 02:23.311\n一字不漏的言議。是,我是這樣講,我說我非常不願意,因為我於心不忍,我真的是不想造成這樣的對立。是,因為我不願意看到對於禁法補償的這一件事情,變成是在野黨背革整個中央政府總預算的一個理由。現在變成說,用我說我是對原住民的人質,好像我是施政,我從來不會有這樣的想法。\n\n02:24.025 --> 02:26.967\n我相信卓院長絕對不會有這樣的想法所以造謠就是不對\n\n02:43.274 --> 03:07.208\n我要攪清楚到底是誰講出去,難怪...我覺得是就是不是就不是,而且今天和解犯的這個犯局裡面不是只有韓院長跟卓院長,還有其他人,那現場的每一個人都可以來還原,而且呢,來肯認到底剛剛卓院長的那每一個字,每一...那一句,到底是不是...\n\n03:07.648 --> 03:36.516\n我也謝謝這個韓院長人稱公道主持中立還有我們秘書長也在現場我再重複一次我再重複一次我再重複一次我說很多人希望我在那個時候提出復議我說我非常不願意因為我於心不忍就是會造成這樣的對立我真的不願意這句話絕對不能說是我對原住民的仁慈好像有施捨的樣子\n\n03:37.964 --> 03:52.502\n這個話如果從高金委員的嘴巴講出來,我就要希望是誰告訴他的,那就是破壞整個今天中午吃飯的氣氛。如果沒有人告訴他,這兩個字從何而來,憑空而出。\n\n03:53.633 --> 04:22.811\n為的就是要製造另一場紛亂而已是所以院長我今天的質詢第一部分為什麼要問這個第一個我們希望真的要和解我們希望政府的總預算案要趕快的來進入立法院我們希望趕快三度通過有很多很多的預算都必須要被執行這第一個第二個我們認為這個和解犯的犯局裡面這個很多人都在現場是可以作證那到底為何會有\n\n04:23.431 --> 04:49.425\n高金委員這樣子的一個誤解也好或者是他的解讀是這麼的惡意負面也好我覺得這個第一個對政黨的和解總預算的和解沒有幫助第二個我覺得也不應該讓原住民來背上這樣子的一個罪過其實原住民的權益我相信從中央到地方每一位不分黨派的委員絕對全力的支持跟捍衛\n\n04:50.766 --> 04:51.247\n沒有錯,我說\n\n04:59.761 --> 05:25.277\n也許啦在這邊動之以情的講話我都深受感動但是原則不能破壞兩院之間的院計分立不能破壞行政院負責的是制定編列預算大院負責的是審查預算如果一個法律就能通過一筆預算不在預算的大小而在這個精神這個原則之所在我必須嚴守這樣的立場這個是絕對不能破壞的但是為了兩院的和諧\n\n05:26.198 --> 05:26.358\n主席\n\n05:38.246 --> 05:42.289\n那我們請韓院長要主持公道我希望能夠要有下一次的和解飯\n\n05:58.621 --> 06:01.444\n所以誰願意希望趕快進行,有誰在破壞應該看得很清楚。\n\n06:17.292 --> 06:32.981\n好謝謝院長的說明我相信這應該非常的清楚非常的明白而且還原今天中午和解飯裡面的每一個字每一句話那接下來我要請教院長我關心很多其他的民生的議題\n\n06:34.202 --> 06:55.664\n我之前在交通委員會上有跟交通部在提到這個外送平台這個運費的法制化那我提到這個目的是第一個消費者外送員還有小店家的權益問題那你知道交通部現在有訂了一個外送費率然後希望各縣市一定質疑而且預計11月要上路院長你知道這件事嗎\n\n06:56.224 --> 07:21.350\n現在在公告期間,也希望各界來提供各種更好的意見來補足他,如果他有私律上必須周全的地方,也都願意來接受外界各地的這個意見,這個是公告。我現在是提醒院長,這個會有部會之間的不協調,交通部現在預告了,預告了之後當然希望各界來提意見,但是在另外一方面,\n\n07:22.998 --> 07:51.297\n我在立法院推動的是這個外送平台的運費必須透明化合理化透明化合理化就來自於剛剛院長講的在交通部現在預告的執法規裡面希望有更多各界來提供意見我們希望讓它更透明化合理化但是呢公民會主委已經站在你旁邊了兩大外送平台送過要申請併購那還未立案但是但是正在補件\n\n07:53.234 --> 08:21.434\n我希望這個行政院跟公平會這個態度立場要明確啦為什麼要明確如果他在補件成功之後立案之後那就要開始審酌他到底允不允許合併但是在這個還沒有確定有沒有合併之前呢交通部的費率已經預告那會產生什麼問題院長第一個公平會的委員人事案\n\n08:22.415 --> 08:50.386\n我們有幾個委員任期快到了那如果接下來在今年下半年這個我們的人事案呢如果沒有辦法順利的推動的話沒有辦法順利的過關的話那公平會的功能可能受到很大的影響那未來因應如果呢像兩大外送平台他們要合併的案子補件補完成了送進來了可是卻碰到沒有辦法審\n\n08:51.431 --> 08:54.014\n公平會有4位委員任期到,我們必須在10月底之前把這個人選能夠確定下來,目前正在作業當中。\n\n09:11.135 --> 09:11.355\n主席\n\n09:26.703 --> 09:52.872\n這樣情況底下但是如果讓他形成一個壟斷對社會壟斷的行為我想在公平會的公平交易當中是一個相當矛盾的那這個部分我請主委來說明等一下請主委說明之前院長你剛剛講我們公平會委員的人事案你10月要開始作業已經在作業了已經開始作業10月底之前那院長你有信心說在我們今年年底之前我們所有人事案可以抵定嗎\n\n09:55.080 --> 10:23.539\n我當然很希望能夠照時間走那公平會這個因為比較沒有政治性我們也希望能夠在人選的選擇上比較沒有政治性我們希望人選一出來的時候我們立法院呢草野大家不同政黨都能夠支持我為什麼要這樣子講因為如果呢有人不支持如果呢我們公平會的人事沒辦法通過的話會有一個空窗期那如果在這個空窗期的期間這個外送平台的合併的案子啊\n\n10:24.480 --> 10:46.391\n立案送進來審議,結果呢我們公平問啊,沒辦法審啊,在空轉啊,那到法定的審期的審查的期限如果過的話,那會不會產生還沒有審,也沒辦法審的情況之下,審查期限過了,那外送平台在沒有審的情況之下就合併了,有沒有這樣的可能性,主委?\n\n10:47.193 --> 10:47.613\n對阿院長我現在擔心的是這個阿\n\n11:04.564 --> 11:30.015\n在我們目前審核的過程當中因為資料還沒有齊備等到資料齊備之後我們對於這個結合之後結合事業會不會濫用市場的地位去做價格的決定這也是我們很重要的考量因素我今天關心兩個點說給院長聽請院長能夠關注第一個點如果公平會的人事案沒有辦法如期及時來通過\n\n11:32.276 --> 11:57.803\n那會有一個空窗期而這個空窗期的期間如果事業體外送平台他們兩家的合併案案件補件完成送進來了沒有人可以審查程序沒有辦法進行在公平交易法的法定的期限審查期限一過之後剛剛主委講的事業申請的事業體可以進行對不對\n\n11:59.483 --> 12:24.798\n這是我擔心,我也是要說給很多很多的國人清楚知道如果公平會的人事案如果沒有辦法正常的通過正常的運行的話他影響的是民生的議題影響的是民生的議題所以這個問題我請院長要多多關注我希望不要有這個情況發生第二個我擔心的\n\n12:26.311 --> 12:52.933\n這個是立場的宣示啦兩大外送平台的這個併購剛剛主委講的啊我們在審查就是他會不會壟斷市場嘛如果真的讓他併了之後一家獨大就是獨佔啊一家獨大就是獨佔啊那什麼小店家擔心消費者擔心大家擔心什麼市場被壟斷外送員擔心什麼他沒保障因為呢只有一家他們最大說了算消費者擔心什麼會漲價\n\n12:54.724 --> 13:15.553\n我是堅決反對啦我不知道行政院院長你的態度勒剛剛已經跟委員報告過我們在公平教育的原則底下行程對社會壟斷的行為都違反都跟這個原則相對矛盾所以我相信公平會現在或是未來的委員一定會本著良心跟專業來做這樣的判斷\n\n13:17.383 --> 13:18.664\n各界的意見各界的權益\n\n13:40.454 --> 14:05.876\n應該受保障不可以被壟斷不可以被獨佔這是民眾所關心的拜託主委拜託院長我們會盡快把這個人選人選送到大院來希望時間能夠長我也希望在野黨不要黨這是關心民生的議題希望能夠順利的來通過最後一分多鐘我請教院長其實我們很擔心什麼少子女化的對策因應問題\n\n14:07.537 --> 14:34.865\n我們知道在賴總統不管他在8月15號他的喊話或者是今年的國慶日他說要跨世代的照顧那其中一個就是對於年輕家庭跟孩子因為我們行政院投入了很多的資源就是希望因應台灣的少子女化那要搶救台灣的生產力一個不算少兩個恰恰好三個多麼好院長這個是我們的目標對不對\n\n14:37.522 --> 15:02.585\n問題是少子女化的威力太強大了,我們今年是農年,農年寶寶國慶寶寶,昨天國慶日接生聽說很冷,挽救不了出生率,而且推估我們今年農年可能出生率就跟去年差不多,人數也跟去年差不多,院長你對少子女化的對策有沒有加碼的空間,願不願意再加碼?\n\n15:03.428 --> 15:25.309\n我們最近很積極在討論現在這個階段的人口政策甚至我們要提出的是人口的對策我們想要一整套的計畫那這個國發會已經很積極在討論了那中間好幾項目前都還在思考的過程當中從大家多鼓勵大家多婚多生但是政府要做更多的公托養育\n\n15:33.510 --> 15:33.998\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.129,"end":10.92,"text":"謝謝主席院長我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":20.046,"end":44.905,"text":"委員長今天很多委員都很關心這個中午吃的和解飯聽說破局了那破局的原因在於正節點是在於這個原住民的這個進法補償條例那進法補償我是想請問一下 院長你在今天中午的和解飯這個參會上真的說過行政院沒對進法補償提復議案"},{"start":47.767,"end":51.068,"text":"這已是我對原住民的仁慈你有講過這句話嗎委員這句話問我不如問韓院長韓院長還在現場嘛對不對院長我們卓院長有講這一句話嗎那我來說我如果說錯韓院長可以隨時指正我我今天在"},{"start":76.217,"end":95.087,"text":"參會當中我的結論是說我這一段話我不想在備詢台上說但是有人把它講出來了所以我就把它說出來我說進法補償這個法通過之後很多人認為我們站在憲政分立的立場上行政院必須提復議"},{"start":96.55,"end":115.985,"text":"但我堅持不願意,我覺得我於心不忍對原住民造成這樣的對立,所以我於心不忍。這兩句話,這句話難道是仁慈的施捨嗎?所以總院長,這個剛剛還是你還原今天中和解犯犯局上真正的"},{"start":117.571,"end":143.311,"text":"一字不漏的言議。 是,我是這樣講,我說我非常不願意,因為我於心不忍,我真的是不想造成這樣的對立。 是,因為我不願意看到對於禁法補償的這一件事情,變成是在野黨背革整個中央政府總預算的一個理由。 現在變成說,用我說我是對原住民的人質,好像我是施政,我從來不會有這樣的想法。"},{"start":144.025,"end":146.967,"text":"我相信卓院長 絕對不會有這樣的想法所以造謠就是不對"},{"start":163.274,"end":187.208,"text":"我要攪清楚到底是誰講出去,難怪...我覺得是就是不是就不是,而且今天和解犯的這個犯局裡面不是只有韓院長跟卓院長,還有其他人,那現場的每一個人都可以來還原,而且呢,來肯認到底剛剛卓院長的那每一個字,每一...那一句,到底是不是..."},{"start":187.648,"end":216.516,"text":"我也謝謝這個韓院長人稱公道主持中立還有我們秘書長也在現場我再重複一次我再重複一次我再重複一次我說很多人希望我在那個時候提出復議我說我非常不願意因為我於心不忍就是會造成這樣的對立我真的不願意這句話絕對不能說是我對原住民的仁慈好像有施捨的樣子"},{"start":217.964,"end":232.502,"text":"這個話如果從高金委員的嘴巴講出來,我就要希望是誰告訴他的,那就是破壞整個今天中午吃飯的氣氛。如果沒有人告訴他,這兩個字從何而來,憑空而出。"},{"start":233.633,"end":262.811,"text":"為的就是要製造另一場紛亂而已是所以院長我今天的質詢第一部分為什麼要問這個第一個我們希望真的要和解我們希望政府的總預算案要趕快的來進入立法院我們希望趕快三度通過有很多很多的預算都必須要被執行這第一個第二個我們認為這個和解犯的犯局裡面這個很多人都在現場是可以作證那到底為何會有"},{"start":263.431,"end":289.425,"text":"高金委員這樣子的一個誤解也好或者是他的解讀是這麼的惡意負面也好我覺得這個第一個對政黨的和解總預算的和解沒有幫助第二個我覺得也不應該讓原住民來背上這樣子的一個罪過其實原住民的權益我相信從中央到地方每一位不分黨派的委員絕對全力的支持跟捍衛"},{"start":290.766,"end":291.247,"text":"沒有錯,我說"},{"start":299.761,"end":325.277,"text":"也許啦在這邊動之以情的講話我都深受感動但是原則不能破壞兩院之間的院計分立不能破壞行政院負責的是制定編列預算大院負責的是審查預算如果一個法律就能通過一筆預算不在預算的大小而在這個精神這個原則之所在我必須嚴守這樣的立場這個是絕對不能破壞的但是為了兩院的和諧"},{"start":326.198,"end":326.358,"text":"主席"},{"start":338.246,"end":342.289,"text":"那我們請韓院長要主持公道我希望能夠要有下一次的和解飯"},{"start":358.621,"end":361.444,"text":"所以誰願意希望趕快進行,有誰在破壞應該看得很清楚。"},{"start":377.292,"end":392.981,"text":"好 謝謝院長的說明我相信這應該非常的清楚非常的明白而且還原今天中午和解飯裡面的每一個字每一句話那接下來我要請教院長我關心很多其他的民生的議題"},{"start":394.202,"end":415.664,"text":"我之前在交通委員會上有跟交通部在提到這個外送平台這個運費的法制化那我提到這個目的是第一個消費者外送員還有小店家的權益問題那你知道交通部現在有訂了一個外送費率然後希望各縣市一定質疑而且預計11月要上路院長你知道這件事嗎"},{"start":416.224,"end":441.35,"text":"現在在公告期間,也希望各界來提供各種更好的意見來補足他,如果他有私律上必須周全的地方,也都願意來接受外界各地的這個意見,這個是公告。我現在是提醒院長,這個會有部會之間的不協調,交通部現在預告了,預告了之後當然希望各界來提意見,但是在另外一方面,"},{"start":442.998,"end":471.297,"text":"我在立法院推動的是這個外送平台的運費必須透明化合理化透明化合理化就來自於剛剛院長講的在交通部現在預告的執法規裡面希望有更多各界來提供意見我們希望讓它更透明化合理化但是呢公民會主委已經站在你旁邊了兩大外送平台送過要申請併購那還未立案但是但是正在補件"},{"start":473.234,"end":501.434,"text":"我希望這個行政院跟公平會這個態度立場要明確啦為什麼要明確如果他在補件成功之後立案之後那就要開始審酌他到底允不允許合併但是在這個還沒有確定有沒有合併之前呢交通部的費率已經預告那會產生什麼問題院長第一個公平會的委員人事案"},{"start":502.415,"end":530.386,"text":"我們有幾個委員任期快到了那如果接下來在今年下半年這個我們的人事案呢如果沒有辦法順利的推動的話沒有辦法順利的過關的話那公平會的功能可能受到很大的影響那未來因應如果呢像兩大外送平台他們要合併的案子補件補完成了送進來了可是卻碰到沒有辦法審"},{"start":531.431,"end":534.014,"text":"公平會有4位委員任期到,我們必須在10月底之前把這個人選能夠確定下來,目前正在作業當中。"},{"start":551.135,"end":551.355,"text":"主席"},{"start":566.703,"end":592.872,"text":"這樣情況底下但是如果讓他形成一個壟斷對社會壟斷的行為我想在公平會的公平交易當中是一個相當矛盾的那這個部分我請主委來說明等一下請主委說明之前院長你剛剛講我們公平會委員的人事案你10月要開始作業已經在作業了已經開始作業10月底之前那院長你有信心說在我們今年年底之前我們所有人事案可以抵定嗎"},{"start":595.08,"end":623.539,"text":"我當然很希望能夠照時間走那公平會這個因為比較沒有政治性我們也希望能夠在人選的選擇上比較沒有政治性我們希望人選一出來的時候我們立法院呢草野大家不同政黨都能夠支持我為什麼要這樣子講因為如果呢有人不支持如果呢我們公平會的人事沒辦法通過的話會有一個空窗期那如果在這個空窗期的期間這個外送平台的合併的案子啊"},{"start":624.48,"end":646.391,"text":"立案送進來審議,結果呢我們公平問啊,沒辦法審啊,在空轉啊,那到法定的審期的審查的期限如果過的話,那會不會產生還沒有審,也沒辦法審的情況之下,審查期限過了,那外送平台在沒有審的情況之下就合併了,有沒有這樣的可能性,主委?"},{"start":647.193,"end":647.613,"text":"對阿院長我現在擔心的是這個阿"},{"start":664.564,"end":690.015,"text":"在我們目前審核的過程當中因為資料還沒有齊備等到資料齊備之後我們對於這個結合之後結合事業會不會濫用市場的地位去做價格的決定這也是我們很重要的考量因素我今天關心兩個點說給院長聽請院長能夠關注第一個點如果公平會的人事案沒有辦法如期及時來通過"},{"start":692.276,"end":717.803,"text":"那會有一個空窗期而這個空窗期的期間如果事業體外送平台他們兩家的合併案案件補件完成送進來了沒有人可以審查程序沒有辦法進行在公平交易法的法定的期限審查期限一過之後剛剛主委講的事業申請的事業體可以進行對不對"},{"start":719.483,"end":744.798,"text":"這是我擔心,我也是要說給很多很多的國人清楚知道如果公平會的人事案如果沒有辦法正常的通過正常的運行的話他影響的是民生的議題影響的是民生的議題所以這個問題我請院長要多多關注我希望不要有這個情況發生第二個我擔心的"},{"start":746.311,"end":772.933,"text":"這個是立場的宣示啦兩大外送平台的這個併購剛剛主委講的啊我們在審查就是他會不會壟斷市場嘛如果真的讓他併了之後一家獨大就是獨佔啊一家獨大就是獨佔啊那什麼小店家擔心消費者擔心大家擔心什麼市場被壟斷外送員擔心什麼他沒保障因為呢只有一家他們最大說了算消費者擔心什麼會漲價"},{"start":774.724,"end":795.553,"text":"我是堅決反對啦 我不知道行政院院長你的態度勒剛剛已經跟委員報告過 我們在公平教育的原則底下 行程對社會壟斷的行為都違反 都跟這個原則相對矛盾 所以我相信公平會現在或是未來的委員 一定會本著良心跟專業來做這樣的判斷"},{"start":797.383,"end":798.664,"text":"各界的意見各界的權益"},{"start":820.454,"end":845.876,"text":"應該受保障不可以被壟斷不可以被獨佔這是民眾所關心的拜託主委拜託院長我們會盡快把這個人選人選送到大院來希望時間能夠長我也希望在野黨不要黨這是關心民生的議題希望能夠順利的來通過最後一分多鐘我請教院長其實我們很擔心什麼少子女化的對策因應問題"},{"start":847.537,"end":874.865,"text":"我們知道在賴總統不管他在8月15號他的喊話或者是今年的國慶日他說要跨世代的照顧那其中一個就是對於年輕家庭跟孩子因為我們行政院投入了很多的資源就是希望因應台灣的少子女化那要搶救台灣的生產力一個不算少兩個恰恰好三個多麼好院長這個是我們的目標對不對"},{"start":877.522,"end":902.585,"text":"問題是少子女化的威力太強大了,我們今年是農年,農年寶寶國慶寶寶,昨天國慶日接生聽說很冷,挽救不了出生率,而且推估我們今年農年可能出生率就跟去年差不多,人數也跟去年差不多,院長你對少子女化的對策有沒有加碼的空間,願不願意再加碼?"},{"start":903.428,"end":925.309,"text":"我們最近很積極在討論現在這個階段的人口政策甚至我們要提出的是人口的對策我們想要一整套的計畫那這個國發會已經很積極在討論了那中間好幾項目前都還在思考的過程當中從大家多鼓勵大家多婚多生但是政府要做更多的公托養育"},{"start":933.51,"end":933.998,"text":"主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-4","title":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-11T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"16:49:52 - 17:05:27","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","id":155394,"gazette":{"lineno":1542,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（16時49分）謝謝主席。我們是不是請卓院長？"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["何委員欣純：院長好。"],["卓院長榮泰：何委員好。"],["何委員欣純：院長，今天很多委員都很關心中午吃的和解飯，聽說破局了，破局的原因癥結點是在於原住民的禁伐補償條例。我想請問一下院長，你在今天中午的和解飯餐會上，真的說過「行政院沒對禁伐補償提覆議案，這已是我對原住民的仁慈」，你有講過這句話嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，這句話問我，不如問韓院長。"],["何委員欣純：韓院長也在現場，對不對？院長，我們卓院長有講這一句話嗎？"],["主席：我不方便回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：那我來說，我如果說錯，韓院長可以隨時指正我。我今天在餐會當中，我的結論是說，這段話我不想在備詢臺上說，但是有人把它講出來了，所以我就把它說出來，我說，禁伐補償這個法通過之後，很多人認為我們站在憲政分立的立場上，行政院必須提覆議，但我堅持不願意，我覺得我於心不忍，對原住民造成這樣的對立，所以我於心不忍。這句話難道是仁慈的施捨嗎？韓院長是不是，我說的一句沒錯吧？我是說我不願意……"],["何委員欣純：卓院長，所以剛剛這個才是你還原今天中午和解飯局上真正一字不漏的原意？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我是這樣講，我說我不願意，我非常不願意，因為……"],["何委員欣純：韓院長點頭了。"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我於心不忍，我真的是不想造成這樣的對立，所以我必須了解……"],["何委員欣純：是，因為我不願意看到禁伐補償這一件事情變成是在野黨杯葛整個中央政府總預算的一個理由。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在變成用我說我是對原住民的仁慈，好像我是施捨，我從來不會有這樣的想法，但是今天……"],["何委員欣純：我相信卓院長絕對不會有這樣的想法。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我有兩個問題必須解決，拜託委員，除了我們3位之外，其他的12位是哪一位跟高金委員講我說「仁慈」這兩個字？如果其他12位都沒有人講，那為什麼要造這種謠？"],["何委員欣純：所以造謠就是不對。"],["卓院長榮泰：我要講清楚到底是誰講出去，難怪……"],["何委員欣純：我覺得是就是，不是就不是，而且今天和解飯的這個飯局裡面不是只有韓院長跟卓院長，還有其他人，現場的每一個人都可以來還原，而且來肯認到底剛剛卓院長講的每一個字、那一句話，到底是不是高金委員所講的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我也謝謝韓院長人稱公道、主持中立，還有我們秘書長也在現場，我再重複一次。"],["何委員欣純：有，剛剛你在講那句話的時候我問韓院長，他說他不方便，但是他有點點頭。"],["卓院長榮泰：因為他主持會議，他有他的職權。我再重複一次，我說，很多人希望我在那個時候提出覆議，我說，我非常不願意，因為我於心不忍，就是會造成這樣的對立，我真的不願意。這句話絕對不能說是我對原住民的仁慈，好像一種施捨的樣子……"],["何委員欣純：絕對不是，絕對不能。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個的話如果從高金委員的嘴巴講出來，我就希望知道是誰告訴他的，那就是破壞今天中午吃飯的氣氛，如果沒有人告訴他，這兩個字從何而來？憑空而出，為的就是要製造另一場紛亂而已。"],["何委員欣純：是，所以院長，我今天的質詢第一部分為什麼要問這個？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員讓我有澄清的機會。"],["何委員欣純：第一個，我們希望真的要和解，我們希望政府的總預算案要趕快進入立法院，我們希望趕快三讀通過，有很多很多的預算都必須要被執行，這是第一個。第二個，我們認為這個和解飯的飯局裡面很多人都在現場，是可以作證，到底為何會有高金委員這樣子的一個誤解也好，或者是他的解讀是這麼的惡意、負面也好，第一個，我覺得這對政黨的和解、總預算的和解沒有幫助；第二個，我覺得也不應該讓原住民來背上這樣子的一個罪過。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["何委員欣純：其實對於原住民的權益，我相信從中央到地方，每一位不分黨派的委員絕對全力的支持跟捍衛，但是原住民的權益保障也必須要合乎憲法，這個就是我們所堅持的，是不是，院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯，我說也許在這邊動之以情的講話，我都深受感動，但是原則不能破壞，兩院之間的院際分立不能破壞，行政院負責的是制定編列預算，大院負責的是審查預算，如果一個法律就能通過一筆預算，不在預算的大小，而在這個精神、這個原則之所在，我必須嚴守這樣的立場，這個是絕對不能破壞的。但是為了兩院的和諧，大家如果願意這樣坐下來談，我們可以談出一個方式出來，也不會傷害彼此之間的信任，只要大家互相尊重，這個事情都可以談。但是如果吃了一頓飯出去之後，卻引述錯誤，故意用不對的話來破壞這個氣氛，那不足為取；如果沒有引述錯誤，是另外有人刻意的製造紛亂，我請韓院長也應該主持公道。"],["何委員欣純：我們請韓院長要主持公道，我希望能夠有下一次的和解飯，也希望能夠真的在和解的氛圍之下，趕快讓總預算進入我們立法院，我們實質來審查，那個才是真正對人民交代、對人民負責，院長，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以誰願意、希望趕快進行，有誰在破壞，應該看得很清楚。"],["何委員欣純：好，謝謝院長的說明，我相信這應該非常地清楚、非常地明白，而且還原今天中午和解飯裡面的每一個字、每一句話。","接下來我要請教院長，我關心很多其他的民生議題。我之前在交通委員會有跟交通部提到外送平臺運費的法制化，我提到這個的目的，第一個是消費者、外送員及小店家的權益問題。交通部現在訂了一個外送費率，希望各縣市因地制宜，而且預計11月要上路，院長，你知道這件事嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在在公告期間。"],["何委員欣純：現在在公告嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：也希望各界來提供各種更好的意見來補足它，如果他有思慮上必須周全的地方，也都願意接受外界各地的意見，這個是公告。"],["何委員欣純：我現在提醒院長，這個會有部會之間的不協調，交通部現在預告了，預告之後當然希望各界來提意見，但是在另外一方面，我在立法院推動的是外送平臺的運費必須透明化、合理化，透明化、合理化就來自於剛剛院長講的，在交通部現在預告的子法規裡面，希望各界來提供更多意見，我們希望讓它更透明化、合理化。但是公平會主委已經站在你旁邊，兩大外送平臺送過要申請併購，還未立案，但是正在補件，我希望行政院跟公平會的態度、立場要明確，為什麼要明確？如果他在補件成功之後、立案之後，就要開始審酌到底允不允許它合併，但是在還沒有確定有沒有合併之前，交通部的費率就已經預告，那會產生什麼問題？院長，第一個是公平會的委員人事案，我們有幾個委員任期快到了，接下來在今年下半年我們的人事案如果沒有辦法順利地推動、沒有辦法順利地過關的話，公平會的功能可能受到很大的影響。未來因應，如果像兩大外送平臺要合併的案子補件補完成了、送進來了，可是卻碰到沒有辦法審，交通部又已經在公告相關運費的費率，這兩者之間的部會協調性，院長怎麼看待？要怎麼解決？"],["卓院長榮泰：公平會有4位委員任期到，我們必須在10月底之前把人選確定下來，目前正在作業當中。至於兩大平臺之間的問題，我想公平會一定是基於公平交易的原則，一方面保護消費者，一方面保護業者，業者是指運送人員的權益。"],["何委員欣純：當然。"],["卓院長榮泰：是這樣的情況底下，但是如果讓它形成一個對社會壟斷的行為，我想在公平會的公平交易當中是相當矛盾的。"],["何委員欣純：是的。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個部分我請主委來說明。"],["何委員欣純：等一下，在請主委說明之前，院長剛剛講公平會委員的人事案你10月要開始作業……"],["卓院長榮泰：已經在作業了，10月底之前。"],["何委員欣純：既然已經開始作業了，院長有信心在今年年底之前我們所有人事案可以底定嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我當然很希望能夠照時間走，公平會這個因為比較沒有政治性，我們也希望能夠在人選的選擇上……"],["何委員欣純：因為比較沒有政治性，所以我們希望人選一出來的時候，立法院朝野不同政黨都能夠支持，我為什麼要這樣子講？如果有人不支持，導致公平會的人事案沒辦法通過的話，會有一個空窗期。如果在這個空窗期的期間，外送平臺合併的案子立案、送進來審議，結果公平會在空轉、沒辦法審，法定的審查期限如果過了的話，會不會產生沒有審、也沒辦法審的情況之下，審查期限卻過了？外送平臺在沒有審的情況之下就合併了，有沒有這樣的可能性？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員回報，根據公平交易法的規定，結合案件有一個審查期間，這個期間過了，如果公平會沒有做出決定，要結合事業就可以直接去結合了。"],["何委員欣純：對啊！院長，我現在擔心的是這個。"],["李主任委員鎂：在目前審核的過程當中，因為資料還沒有齊備，等到資料齊備之後，對於事業結合之後，會不會濫用市場地位決定價格，也是我們很重要的考量因素。"],["何委員欣純：我今天關心兩個點，要說給院長聽，請院長能夠關注。第一個，如果公平會的人事案沒有辦法如期、及時來通過，會有一個空窗期，而這個空窗期的期間，兩家外送平臺、事業體的合併案補件完成、送進來了，沒有人可以審查，程序沒有辦法進行，在公平交易法的法定審查期限一過之後，依剛剛主委講的，申請的事業體就可以進行結合，對不對？院長，這個是我擔心的，我也要說給很多國人清楚、知道，如果公平會的人事案沒有辦法正常通過、正常運行的話，它影響的是民生議題，所以這個問題我請院長要多多關注，希望不要有這個情況發生。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["何委員欣純：第二個，我擔心的這個是立場的宣示啦！有關兩大外送平臺的併購，剛剛主委講就是在審查它會不會壟斷市場，如果真的讓它併了之後，一家獨大就是獨占，小店家擔心、消費者擔心，大家擔心什麼？市場被壟斷；外送員擔心什麼？他沒保障，因為只有一家，最大說了算；消費者擔心什麼？會漲價。我是堅決反對，我不知道院長的態度呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛已經跟委員報告過，在公平交易的原則底下，形成對社會壟斷的行為，都跟這個原則相對矛盾，所以我相信公平會現在或是未來的委員，都一定會本著良心跟專業來做這樣的判斷。"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明一下，因為這個案子目前大家都非常關切，我們舉辦了很多的座談會，包括立法委員也舉辦了很多座談會，不管是消費者或餐廳業者，又或是平臺業者，各界的意見我們都蒐集，我們會在整個審議的過程中去審核。"],["何委員欣純：各界的意見、各界的權益都應該受保障，不可以被壟斷，不可以被獨占，這是民眾所關心的，拜託主委、拜託院長！"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會多多考量。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會儘快把人選送到大院，希望時間能夠……"],["何委員欣純：我希望在野黨不要擋，這是關心民生的議題，希望能夠順利來通過。","最後，我請教院長，其實我們很擔心少子女化問題的對策、因應。我們知道不管是賴總統在8月15號的喊話，或者是在今年國慶日說要跨世代照顧，其中一個就是對於年輕家庭跟孩子。行政院投入了很多資源，就是希望因應臺灣的少子女化，要搶救臺灣的生產力，一個不算少，兩個恰恰好，三個多麼好！院長，這個是我們的目標，對不對？問題是少子女化的威力太強大了，今年是龍年，昨天是國慶日，聽說龍年國慶寶寶的接生很冷，挽救不了出生率，而且推估今年龍年出生率可能跟去年差不多，人數也跟去年差不多。院長，你對少子女化的對策有沒有加碼的空間？願不願意再加碼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們最近很積極在討論現在這個階段的人口政策，甚至我們要提出的是人口的對策，我們希望有一整套的計畫，國發會已經很積極在討論，中間好幾項目前都還在思考的過程當中。從鼓勵大家多婚多生，但是政府要做更多的公托養育等等的教育、等等的作為，這個我們都要做。"],["何委員欣純：院長，謝謝，希望要加油，不然我們的人口是越來越少。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝何欣純委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢，謝謝。","接下來登記第20號張雅琳委員、第21號陳俊宇委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員張雅琳書面質詢：","第一題：遊蕩犬逐年增加已經嚴重影響民眾生命財產，請農業部應提出積極手段解決此一狀況。","根據審計部於112年總決算報告中指出，農業部於109至112年共投入約3.5億進行「遊蕩犬管理精進措施計畫」，但遊蕩犬數量卻從107年的146,773隻，上升至111年的159,697隻。","遊蕩犬在各方面皆已造成危害，根據農業部林業及自然保育署統計，野生動物因受到犬貓攻擊而進行救傷之統計數字，已然逐年上升。","資料來源：林業及自然保育署野生動物救傷動物原因統計","除了對於生態的危害，遊蕩犬也時常造成民眾受傷以及農業損失。","追根究柢，因民眾多有放養及在野外餵養遊蕩動物之行為，導致在TNR政策無法落實完全絕育的情形下，遊蕩犬的數量無法有效降低。請農業部對遊蕩犬提出積極管理方案，以及評估是否透過修法提出有效管制措施以解決目前困境。","第二題：「兒童遊戲場設施安全管理規範」於106年修訂至今，已屆7年之久，期間發生許多爭議事件，政府應該針對該規範重新檢視，以符合現場兒童遊戲權益並應與國際標準接軌。","衛福部在於106年修訂的《兒童遊戲場設施安全管理規範》（下稱「管理規範」），規定2-12歲兒童使用的固定式兒童遊具，包含社區公園、大型特色公園和學校等，在遊戲場開放之前，必須經過指定認證的檢驗機構勘驗，取得合格檢驗報告後，並呈報地方縣市主管機關完成備查後，遊戲場才能夠合法開放。","後續引起全國各地的公園拉起封鎖線，也引發各地家長組織起來，要求政府要重新開放公園，後續經過社會大眾的努力之下，各地方政府開始建設特色公園，讓公園變得更好玩，成為親子遊憩的空間。","7年來，雖然政府和民間持續解決問題，但戶外兒童遊戲場仍出現下列問題。","一、各地檢驗標準因「人」設事：","按照現行規範，兒童遊戲場三年要檢驗一次，全國檢驗機構目前有17家，但17家派出的檢驗員，對於同樣兒童遊具常有不同見解和看法，因主觀感受不一的狀況下，令人無所適從。亟待主管機關統一檢驗現場的判定標準。","二、主管機關業務分立，造成責任互推：","目前根據協調，衛福部社家署主管兒童遊戲場法規，但檢驗標準卻是經濟部標準局主管，而認證檢驗機構單位，則是委託給第三方公正機構─財團法人全國認證基金會。後端根據兒童遊戲場所在地不同，又分為不同單位，在學校就是教育部國教署，在公園就是內政部國土署，但這兩個單位只管場所，不管遊具是否合格問題。因此當兒童遊戲場發生爭議時，無法第一時間解決問題，雖然現行設有跨部會平台會議討論，但仍曠日費時，需重新釐清責任歸屬之後，才能再次提出因應方案。","三、檢驗是國家規範，但檢驗經費要自籌：","依據規範，三年必須檢驗一次是國家規範，但制定規範的衛福部社家署並沒有編列經費協助，地方政府或主管單位必須自行籌措經費，就算是需符合制定這些國家標準─經濟部標準局，也會宣稱沒有任何預算經費可以協助，導致地方政府或主管單位只要無法通過標準，只要無力籌措經費，就會採取原地拆除。導致這些年各地方政府努力建置的特色公園兒童遊戲場，於今年又開始面臨無米炊的困境，雖然內政部國土署編列「兒童遊戲場環境設施改善計畫」十億元的經費，但是這些經費也僅是煙火式的補助，經費用完就還是回歸單位自籌，因此明明都是台灣兒童，會因為住的縣市不同，可以玩的地方數量也會很不一樣，嚴重剝奪各地孩子遊戲權。","綜合上面所述，為全國兒童遊戲權益，請行政院研擬解決方案，包含檢視現行法規、解決檢驗員判斷標準不一、事權統一單一機關以及編列公務預算協助各地改善不合格兒童遊戲場。以上請於三個月內提出可行方案。"],["委員陳俊宇書面質詢：","質詢時間：2024年10月11日立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議","對行政院院長施政報告之質詢〈經濟組〉","壹、防淹防洪靠韌性，治水建設要加緊","宜蘭本為多雨的城市，常年與水共存，亦仰賴豐沛地下水以滋養大地，然近年來受極端氣候影響，不僅降雨愈加集中，更頻繁發生致災性強降雨，降雨量遠超出城市所能負荷，導致低窪地區易於淹水，令居民不堪其擾，尤其今年接連遭逢凱米颱風、山陀兒颱風侵襲，在諸多地區皆造成積淹水，不僅財損、農損難以估量，更危及民眾的生命財產安全，遂建請行政院將提升防災韌性視為施政重點，治水建設應盡速完善到位。","一、盡速推動宜蘭重大治水計畫，如質如期完工","治水工程為百年大計，關乎都市計畫及城鄉發展，宜蘭縣內現有多項大型治水計畫正在規劃、建設中，包括「蘇澳溪分洪工程計畫」、「五結防潮閘門改善工程」、「員山鄉七賢村溪洲排水工程」、「壯圍鄉十三股大排護岸整建」等，以上計畫期程及執行進度為何？請相關部會協助掌握，本席亦會持續追蹤。","另建請中央與縣府積極合作，並體察地方財政之困難，若因物價調整導致經費增加，懇請在經費不足之處予以協助，避免因預算問題延宕整體工程進度，務必使相關工程皆得如質如期完工，得進一步改善水患、減少對民眾生活之衝擊。","二、智慧防汛因地制宜，檢討科技防災之成效","為強化社區自主防災能力，行政院於2019年所核定的第一期「水災智慧防災計畫」，曾補助地方政府建置淹水感測器，以即時監控水情，並有效紀錄每次淹水、退水之情形；今年行政院則核定第二期「水災智慧防災計畫」，預計5年將投入30.9億元經費，以強化科技防災之量能。","然審計報告卻指出，宜蘭縣內80處淹水感測器，觸發率竟僅有一成，恐怕與實際積淹水情形有所落差，不免令人懷疑其在致災性豪雨時能否發揮功效，而是否因感測器設置地點不佳、抑或是技術問題，導致淹水感測器成效不如預期？是否需考慮調整位置或擴大布建？請相關單位會同地方政府檢討改善，以利建置更完善之智慧防汛監測監控系統。","另外，行政院在第二期「水災智慧防災計畫」當中，應如何因地制宜協助宜蘭縣建置智慧防災體系，及明年度預期達成之進度為何？提供民眾防災資訊之服務（行動水情APP、LINE智慧防災機器人）應如何推廣讓更多人使用，以達成提升防災整備規模與應變能力之成效？","貳、農業發展再精進，農民權益有保障","宜蘭為農業大縣，本席作為農家子弟，深知農民看天吃飯的心情，遂對於農民福利保障、提升農業競爭力之作為尤其關心，在此提出三個議題與院長討論：","一、提供穩健經濟保障，讓農民老有所依","為提供經濟弱勢的農民，晚年時得有基本之經濟保障，政府自民國84年制定「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例」，歷經多次修正後，至今年滿65歲且符合申領資格者，每人每月可請領8,080元，惟老農津貼雖照物價指數調漲，卻仍遠低於各縣市之最低生活費（113年宜蘭縣最低生活費為14,230元），顯難以滿足每月基本生活支出；惟不敷使用的老農津貼卻占農業部整體預算四成、應雙軌並進的農民退休儲金制度提繳比率仍未及三成，對於農民退休制度之檢討，應有通盤檢討的必要，讓農民得以安心投入農務，老年生活安心有保障。","二、因應極端氣候，農業保險與天災救助並行","今年七月凱米颱風從南澳鄉登陸，造成宜蘭縣農損超過5000萬元，原僅有最嚴重的「青蔥、西瓜、番石榴」納入農損現金救助，感謝農業部在本席爭取之下，擴大救助範圍及項目，助農民度過難關。","惟近年來受極端氣候影響，短延時強降雨頻繁發生，更強的颱風帶來風災、水災，造成之農損令農民苦不堪言，政府辦理天然災害現金救助僅為救急所用，對農民實際幫助相對有限；為穩定農民收益、分散經營風險，政府自106年以來擴大辦理農業保險，惟至今年農作物整體之農保覆蓋率仍偏低，行政院是否應立即檢討農業保險業務及修正保單設計？","應瞭解農民實際情況、增加投保意願，並完善其運作機制，與現行救助制度並行互補，才能在極端氣候的挑戰下，保障農民財產安全。","三、農業人口老化，應創造友善青農環境","隨著少子女化問題日益嚴峻，國發會亦推估台灣將在2025年進入超高齡社會，從事農業人口既呈負成長，青壯年人口的大量流失，使農業工作人口老化問題嚴重，對台灣農業發展相當不利，政府有何因應對策以調整農業勞動力結構，維持我國農業競爭力？另政府如何創造友善青農之環境，培育農業人才、為農業注入新血？","要吸引年輕人投入農業，最重要的即是有可農作之土地，除了傳統的招租廣告外，政府建置的農地租賃平台（農地銀行2.0）應更符合網路世代的使用習慣，惟本席在該網站查詢宜蘭縣可承租之農地，結果卻無任何一筆資料，其他縣市刊載的土地也寥寥無幾，顯該平台未能提供媒合農地之功能，應確實檢討其成效不彰的原因，並建請相關部會加強推廣。"],["主席：接下來請登記第22號馬文君委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":19,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-11"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1137801_00001"}}}