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\"第一個大家相信環境部的這個中立的客觀的態度我們檢驗方法是用最嚴格的標準來看那這個是針對這個所謂的抗生素的標準不是放流水的標準所以醫院的確他有些超過基本的數值然後非常的多有些醫院但是我也必須說他沒有立即的危害但是我們長期來看對環境一定會有一些影響所以我們其實未來我們也希望醫院可以主動的能夠來檢討然後持續的追蹤\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 319.615, \"end\": 319.715, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 319.715, \"end\": 319.995, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 319.995, \"end\": 320.155, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 320.155, \"end\": 320.255, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 320.255, \"end\": 320.435, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 320.435, \"end\": 320.715, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 320.715, \"end\": 320.895, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 320.895, \"end\": 321.095, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 321.095, \"end\": 321.615, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 321.615, \"end\": 321.796, \"score\": 0.898}, 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{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 640.799, \"end\": 641.0, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 641.0, \"end\": 641.12, \"score\": 0.671}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 641.12, \"end\": 641.14, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 641.34, \"end\": 641.4, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"姿\", \"start\": 641.4, \"end\": 641.42, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 641.42, \"end\": 641.44, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,923 --> 00:00:07,764\n謝謝主席有請彭部長請彭部長部長早今天您報告了這個碳費的收費標準那碳費就是為了因應整個氣候變遷的這個關係那環境部竟然從早期的環保署升格為環境部我想國人跟民眾對於環境部是會期許說要承擔更大的責任那我今天有幾個議題跟\n\n2\n00:00:32,248 --> 00:00:32,588\n政府機構來配合\n\n3\n00:00:48,035 --> 00:00:58,488\n報告委員這個其實我在民間的時候就在做這個事情所以其實第一個他是地方政府跟中央政府一起要來合作所以其實目前我必須跟委員談成關於熱熱傷害並沒有一個中央組織部會是負責這個熱的事情\n\n4\n00:01:03,314 --> 00:01:05,977\n謝謝部長因為都市最多的就是建築物和道路的路面因為白天會吸收非常多的太陽熱能\n\n5\n00:01:21,354 --> 00:01:21,374\n市長\n\n6\n00:01:38,008 --> 00:01:47,891\n內政部但是事實上我們了解他並沒有把這件事當作優先的這個項目那您在今年7月31要跟環境部跟衛福部還有勞動部有共同主辦的一個一場氣候邊遷高溫調適的對策研討會所以就你也提到剛剛你也這樣說了對於極端熱這個做法目前並看不出哪一個部會會來主責所以我自己想要拜託部長我也剛剛也聽到你有這樣的回應就是說是不是由部長跟部長帶領環境部大家對於這個\n\n7\n00:02:07,817 --> 00:02:07,977\n第5條、第3項、第9款\n\n8\n00:02:34,369 --> 00:02:34,609\n請問部長您支持我這樣的一個修法建議嗎?\n\n9\n00:02:52,293 --> 00:03:15,334\n謝謝委員委員你這個方式非常的好但是我也回去跟因為這個是氣候變遷整個行政院氣候變遷的這個永續會的一個主要的一個功項但是我也坦承這個熱我們並沒有去重視所以委員再給我們一點時間我待會去研商但是我非常肯定委員能夠給我們一樣一個實際上的建議都是行政跟立法部門一起來努力\n\n10\n00:03:16,175 --> 00:03:39,585\n部長另外一個議題就是前幾天有一個報告內容是來自環境部的檢測報告那很多人看了非常驚訝就是醫院的放流水含有抗生素而且竟然這麼多家醫院包括好幾家醫學中心嚴重超標那台中榮總是那個黃胺類的藥品超標大概兩三倍那其每醫院有三項抗生素嚴重超標其中那個頭包子菌類的抗生素超標了3700多倍\n\n11\n00:03:41,866 --> 00:04:07,376\n那就是聯衛福部的桃園醫院他也被驗出說這個這個中文叫福奎諾同類的抗生素他也高出這個標準許多那麼這兩天這個中榮跟這個部桃他都陸續對外公開澄清這個行政院退伍會說他們檢驗的結果都符合標準這件事有點嚴重部長就是說他說他們沒有但是那個環境部的檢測報告是有\n\n12\n00:04:08,897 --> 00:04:27,297\n那是不是說要有個公正的第3次再做一次還是說大家可以比對一下你檢驗的方法檢驗的時間點等等等等就是這個是有關中融中融他說他是符合標準的就是退伏回來說明那衛福桃醫院講的就是水中抗生素可能來自服用病人的\n\n13\n00:04:27,918 --> 00:04:29,499\n因為這麼嚴重的抗生素超標不是水污染的問題\n\n14\n00:04:46,664 --> 00:04:46,764\n陳昭姿議員\n\n15\n00:05:02,802 --> 00:05:16,313\n無藥可用結果大家就知道所以抗藥性一直是一個非常重要的問題那醫院這個環境跑出這個問題所以部長到底就發生什麼事情就是說為什麼他們會有不一致的說法部長你可以稍微簡單的說明一下這個發現嗎其實這個我們是用\n\n16\n00:05:19,615 --> 00:05:42,500\n第一個大家相信環境部的這個中立的客觀的態度我們檢驗方法是用最嚴格的標準來看那這個是針對這個所謂的抗生素的標準不是放流水的標準所以醫院的確他有些超過基本的數值然後非常的多有些醫院但是我也必須說他沒有立即的危害但是我們長期來看對環境一定會有一些影響所以我們其實未來我們也希望醫院可以主動的能夠來檢討然後持續的追蹤\n\n17\n00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:44,560\n每家醫院環境部都用代號稱呼\n\n18\n00:05:59,850 --> 00:05:59,950\n吳清福隨報4章\n\n19\n00:06:26,548 --> 00:06:53,675\n根委員報告因為這個是屬於還不是那我這個是屬於我們的一個研究的一個調查那這個像現在的這個康生素項目還沒有列入我們現在的放流水標準那現在就是在評估哪些項目要怎麼樣做管制所以我們有篩選的這一些關注的項目90項那分年做了一些調查那還是在調查當中那還不是一個標準的方法\n\n20\n00:06:55,896 --> 00:06:56,496\n指出自主管理的建議,但是建議都提出來了\n\n21\n00:07:18,183 --> 00:07:38,886\n就是建議他們要怎麼做但是沒有裁法就算說最後研究計畫結束我們真正要進行去處理的話部長那是不是說應該要有裁法嗎也許你可以說第一次發現第一次發現我們是限期改善那沒有改善這裁法還是最有用的因為這個抗生素抗藥性產生是不得了的好嗎部長就是要往這個方向去做管理可以嗎\n\n22\n00:07:39,346 --> 00:07:39,787\n臺南的沿海也開始出現藍眼淚\n\n23\n00:07:54,264 --> 00:08:22,166\n那近期有這個學者指出事實上藍眼類他是工業排放這個磷酸鹽或矽酸鹽所累積的生態反撲學者說藍眼類應該是一種環境污染的指標他不是奇蹟他是警訊就是排放的高濃度的碳磷酸鹽會造成河口沿海的這些生態跟養殖的負面影響那環境部對於這個水源保護區碳磷酸鹽的排放還是有管理\n\n24\n00:08:22,506 --> 00:08:43,099\n但水源保護區以外部長你認為水源保護區以外的磷酸鹽的管理是不是要納管目前沒有管理包括其實自然的磷酸鹽像這個藍眼淚這個其實OK的但是如果像這樣的非自然的是屬於工廠工業牌上的都跑出藍眼淚了所以我們其實8月24號已經修改了預告的這個法案年底會開始公告所以這個磷酸鹽我們已經設定了標準所以部長這個建議是已經在進行\n\n25\n00:08:52,005 --> 00:08:54,527\n中科臺中園區環境小組在2016年有會議上率先請中科管理局訂定了零酸鹽的自主管理但我們沒有簽到其他的科學園區有跟進\n\n26\n00:09:11,383 --> 00:09:39,377\n有編著這個小表給你看看我們從這個資訊可以來看兩件事情第一個單一管理區各園區標準不一你看竹科園區它是60mg每一升但是這個龍潭園區它是120差了兩倍這第一個管理標準不一同一個園區第二個國科會有放任北中南三個科學園區各自為政有些有管理有些沒管理有些有定有些沒有定所以這樣的一個放任結果就是一國多治\n\n27\n00:09:40,377 --> 00:10:00,888\n那環境部是不是要把總齡這個要做一個管理有一定的標準而進行總量管制還是說讓國科會自己去管理?部長沒有委員其實我們已經預告了年底會發布我們第一階段是150然後25我們會分階段來進行所以包括不會讓國家這個放任這個過去的總齡管制是一國多制囉\n\n28\n00:10:01,598 --> 00:10:02,179\n部長覺得03管制要不要入法?\n\n29\n00:10:19,458 --> 00:10:41,140\n我們現在的這個草案裡面已經年底就會重視...因為如果你不重視這件事你一定是重視你才會把這次的這個失業廢水調查局、污染管理、房居管理計畫這個有把列入嘛,把零算列入,就是你們重視這件事情嘛所以是不是部長一定要去執行,不要說科學園區它的標準比較寬鬆,那環境部的比較嚴,那一國多治啊\n\n30\n00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:41,440\n陳昭姿委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4923\t7764\t謝謝主席有請彭部長請彭部長部長早今天您報告了這個碳費的收費標準那碳費就是為了因應整個氣候變遷的這個關係那環境部竟然從早期的環保署升格為環境部我想國人跟民眾對於環境部是會期許說要承擔更大的責任那我今天有幾個議題跟\n32248\t32588\t政府機構來配合\n48035\t58488\t報告委員 這個其實我在民間的時候就在做這個事情所以其實第一個他是地方政府跟中央政府一起要來合作所以其實目前我必須跟委員談成關於熱 熱傷害並沒有一個中央組織部會是負責這個熱的事情\n63314\t65977\t謝謝部長因為都市最多的就是建築物和道路的路面因為白天會吸收非常多的太陽熱能\n81354\t81374\t市長\n98008\t107891\t內政部但是事實上我們了解他並沒有把這件事當作優先的這個項目那您在今年7月31要跟環境部跟衛福部還有勞動部有共同主辦的一個一場氣候邊遷高溫調適的對策研討會所以就你也提到剛剛你也這樣說了對於極端熱這個做法目前並看不出哪一個部會會來主責所以我自己想要拜託部長我也剛剛也聽到你有這樣的回應就是說是不是由部長跟部長帶領環境部大家對於這個\n127817\t127977\t第5條、第3項、第9款\n154369\t154609\t請問部長您支持我這樣的一個修法建議嗎?\n172293\t195334\t謝謝委員 委員你這個方式非常的好但是我也回去跟因為這個是氣候變遷整個行政院氣候變遷的這個永續會的一個主要的一個功項但是我也坦承這個熱我們並沒有去重視所以委員再給我們一點時間我待會去研商但是我非常肯定委員能夠給我們一樣一個實際上的建議都是行政跟立法部門一起來努力\n196175\t219585\t部長另外一個議題就是前幾天有一個報告內容是來自環境部的檢測報告那很多人看了非常驚訝就是醫院的放流水含有抗生素而且竟然這麼多家醫院包括好幾家醫學中心嚴重超標那台中榮總是那個黃胺類的藥品超標大概兩三倍那其每醫院有三項抗生素嚴重超標其中那個頭包子菌類的抗生素超標了3700多倍\n221866\t247376\t那就是聯衛福部的桃園醫院他也被驗出說這個這個中文叫福奎諾同類的抗生素他也高出這個標準許多那麼這兩天這個中榮跟這個部桃他都陸續對外公開澄清這個行政院退伍會說他們檢驗的結果都符合標準這件事有點嚴重部長就是說他說他們沒有但是那個環境部的檢測報告是有\n248897\t267297\t那是不是說要有個公正的第3次再做一次還是說大家可以比對一下你檢驗的方法檢驗的時間點等等等等就是這個是有關中融中融他說他是符合標準的就是退伏回來說明那衛福桃醫院講的就是水中抗生素可能來自服用病人的\n267918\t269499\t因為這麼嚴重的抗生素超標不是水污染的問題\n286664\t286764\t陳昭姿議員\n302802\t316313\t無藥可用結果大家就知道所以抗藥性一直是一個非常重要的問題那醫院這個環境跑出這個問題所以部長到底就發生什麼事情就是說為什麼他們會有不一致的說法部長你可以稍微簡單的說明一下這個發現嗎其實這個我們是用\n319615\t342500\t第一個大家相信環境部的這個中立的客觀的態度我們檢驗方法是用最嚴格的標準來看那這個是針對這個所謂的抗生素的標準不是放流水的標準所以醫院的確他有些超過基本的數值然後非常的多有些醫院但是我也必須說他沒有立即的危害但是我們長期來看對環境一定會有一些影響所以我們其實未來我們也希望醫院可以主動的能夠來檢討然後持續的追蹤\n343800\t344560\t每家醫院環境部都用代號稱呼\n359850\t359950\t吳清福隨報4章\n386548\t413675\t根委員報告因為這個是屬於還不是那我這個是屬於我們的一個研究的一個調查那這個像現在的這個康生素項目還沒有列入我們現在的放流水標準那現在就是在評估哪些項目要怎麼樣做管制所以我們有篩選的這一些關注的項目90項那分年做了一些調查那還是在調查當中那還不是一個標準的方法\n415896\t416496\t指出自主管理的建議,但是建議都提出來了\n438183\t458886\t就是建議他們要怎麼做但是沒有裁法就算說最後研究計畫結束我們真正要進行去處理的話部長那是不是說應該要有裁法嗎也許你可以說第一次發現第一次發現我們是限期改善那沒有改善這裁法還是最有用的因為這個抗生素抗藥性產生是不得了的好嗎部長就是要往這個方向去做管理可以嗎\n459346\t459787\t臺南的沿海也開始出現藍眼淚\n474264\t502166\t那近期有這個學者指出事實上藍眼類他是工業排放這個磷酸鹽或矽酸鹽所累積的生態反撲學者說藍眼類應該是一種環境污染的指標他不是奇蹟他是警訊就是排放的高濃度的碳磷酸鹽會造成河口沿海的這些生態跟養殖的負面影響那環境部對於這個水源保護區碳磷酸鹽的排放還是有管理\n502506\t523099\t但水源保護區以外部長你認為水源保護區以外的磷酸鹽的管理是不是要納管目前沒有管理包括其實自然的磷酸鹽像這個藍眼淚這個其實OK的但是如果像這樣的非自然的是屬於工廠工業牌上的都跑出藍眼淚了所以我們其實8月24號已經修改了預告的這個法案年底會開始公告所以這個磷酸鹽我們已經設定了標準所以部長這個建議是已經在進行\n532005\t534527\t中科臺中園區環境小組在2016年有會議上率先請中科管理局訂定了零酸鹽的自主管理但我們沒有簽到其他的科學園區有跟進\n551383\t579377\t有編著這個小表給你看看我們從這個資訊可以來看兩件事情第一個單一管理區各園區標準不一你看竹科園區它是60mg每一升但是這個龍潭園區它是120差了兩倍這第一個管理標準不一同一個園區第二個國科會有放任北中南三個科學園區各自為政有些有管理有些沒管理有些有定有些沒有定所以這樣的一個放任結果就是一國多治\n580377\t600888\t那環境部是不是要把總齡這個要做一個管理有一定的標準而進行總量管制還是說讓國科會自己去管理?部長沒有委員其實我們已經預告了年底會發布我們第一階段是150然後25我們會分階段來進行所以包括不會讓國家這個放任這個過去的總齡管制是一國多制囉\n601598\t602179\t部長覺得03管制要不要入法?\n619458\t641140\t我們現在的這個草案裡面已經年底就會重視...因為如果你不重視這件事你一定是重視你才會把這次的這個失業廢水調查局、污染管理、房居管理計畫這個有把列入嘛,把零算列入,就是你們重視這件事情嘛所以是不是部長一定要去執行,不要說科學園區它的標準比較寬鬆,那環境部的比較嚴,那一國多治啊\n641340\t641440\t陳昭姿委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請彭部長請彭部長部長早今天您報告了這個碳費的收費標準那碳費就是為了因應整個氣候變遷的這個關係那環境部竟然從早期的環保署升格為環境部我想國人跟民眾對於環境部是會期許說要承擔更大的責任那我今天有幾個議題跟\n政府機構來配合\n報告委員 這個其實我在民間的時候就在做這個事情所以其實第一個他是地方政府跟中央政府一起要來合作所以其實目前我必須跟委員談成關於熱 熱傷害並沒有一個中央組織部會是負責這個熱的事情\n謝謝部長因為都市最多的就是建築物和道路的路面因為白天會吸收非常多的太陽熱能\n市長\n內政部但是事實上我們了解他並沒有把這件事當作優先的這個項目那您在今年7月31要跟環境部跟衛福部還有勞動部有共同主辦的一個一場氣候邊遷高溫調適的對策研討會所以就你也提到剛剛你也這樣說了對於極端熱這個做法目前並看不出哪一個部會會來主責所以我自己想要拜託部長我也剛剛也聽到你有這樣的回應就是說是不是由部長跟部長帶領環境部大家對於這個\n第5條、第3項、第9款\n請問部長您支持我這樣的一個修法建議嗎?\n謝謝委員 委員你這個方式非常的好但是我也回去跟因為這個是氣候變遷整個行政院氣候變遷的這個永續會的一個主要的一個功項但是我也坦承這個熱我們並沒有去重視所以委員再給我們一點時間我待會去研商但是我非常肯定委員能夠給我們一樣一個實際上的建議都是行政跟立法部門一起來努力\n部長另外一個議題就是前幾天有一個報告內容是來自環境部的檢測報告那很多人看了非常驚訝就是醫院的放流水含有抗生素而且竟然這麼多家醫院包括好幾家醫學中心嚴重超標那台中榮總是那個黃胺類的藥品超標大概兩三倍那其每醫院有三項抗生素嚴重超標其中那個頭包子菌類的抗生素超標了3700多倍\n那就是聯衛福部的桃園醫院他也被驗出說這個這個中文叫福奎諾同類的抗生素他也高出這個標準許多那麼這兩天這個中榮跟這個部桃他都陸續對外公開澄清這個行政院退伍會說他們檢驗的結果都符合標準這件事有點嚴重部長就是說他說他們沒有但是那個環境部的檢測報告是有\n那是不是說要有個公正的第3次再做一次還是說大家可以比對一下你檢驗的方法檢驗的時間點等等等等就是這個是有關中融中融他說他是符合標準的就是退伏回來說明那衛福桃醫院講的就是水中抗生素可能來自服用病人的\n因為這麼嚴重的抗生素超標不是水污染的問題\n陳昭姿議員\n無藥可用結果大家就知道所以抗藥性一直是一個非常重要的問題那醫院這個環境跑出這個問題所以部長到底就發生什麼事情就是說為什麼他們會有不一致的說法部長你可以稍微簡單的說明一下這個發現嗎其實這個我們是用\n第一個大家相信環境部的這個中立的客觀的態度我們檢驗方法是用最嚴格的標準來看那這個是針對這個所謂的抗生素的標準不是放流水的標準所以醫院的確他有些超過基本的數值然後非常的多有些醫院但是我也必須說他沒有立即的危害但是我們長期來看對環境一定會有一些影響所以我們其實未來我們也希望醫院可以主動的能夠來檢討然後持續的追蹤\n每家醫院環境部都用代號稱呼\n吳清福隨報4章\n根委員報告因為這個是屬於還不是那我這個是屬於我們的一個研究的一個調查那這個像現在的這個康生素項目還沒有列入我們現在的放流水標準那現在就是在評估哪些項目要怎麼樣做管制所以我們有篩選的這一些關注的項目90項那分年做了一些調查那還是在調查當中那還不是一個標準的方法\n指出自主管理的建議,但是建議都提出來了\n就是建議他們要怎麼做但是沒有裁法就算說最後研究計畫結束我們真正要進行去處理的話部長那是不是說應該要有裁法嗎也許你可以說第一次發現第一次發現我們是限期改善那沒有改善這裁法還是最有用的因為這個抗生素抗藥性產生是不得了的好嗎部長就是要往這個方向去做管理可以嗎\n臺南的沿海也開始出現藍眼淚\n那近期有這個學者指出事實上藍眼類他是工業排放這個磷酸鹽或矽酸鹽所累積的生態反撲學者說藍眼類應該是一種環境污染的指標他不是奇蹟他是警訊就是排放的高濃度的碳磷酸鹽會造成河口沿海的這些生態跟養殖的負面影響那環境部對於這個水源保護區碳磷酸鹽的排放還是有管理\n但水源保護區以外部長你認為水源保護區以外的磷酸鹽的管理是不是要納管目前沒有管理包括其實自然的磷酸鹽像這個藍眼淚這個其實OK的但是如果像這樣的非自然的是屬於工廠工業牌上的都跑出藍眼淚了所以我們其實8月24號已經修改了預告的這個法案年底會開始公告所以這個磷酸鹽我們已經設定了標準所以部長這個建議是已經在進行\n中科臺中園區環境小組在2016年有會議上率先請中科管理局訂定了零酸鹽的自主管理但我們沒有簽到其他的科學園區有跟進\n有編著這個小表給你看看我們從這個資訊可以來看兩件事情第一個單一管理區各園區標準不一你看竹科園區它是60mg每一升但是這個龍潭園區它是120差了兩倍這第一個管理標準不一同一個園區第二個國科會有放任北中南三個科學園區各自為政有些有管理有些沒管理有些有定有些沒有定所以這樣的一個放任結果就是一國多治\n那環境部是不是要把總齡這個要做一個管理有一定的標準而進行總量管制還是說讓國科會自己去管理?部長沒有委員其實我們已經預告了年底會發布我們第一階段是150然後25我們會分階段來進行所以包括不會讓國家這個放任這個過去的總齡管制是一國多制囉\n部長覺得03管制要不要入法?\n我們現在的這個草案裡面已經年底就會重視...因為如果你不重視這件事你一定是重視你才會把這次的這個失業廢水調查局、污染管理、房居管理計畫這個有把列入嘛,把零算列入,就是你們重視這件事情嘛所以是不是部長一定要去執行,不要說科學園區它的標準比較寬鬆,那環境部的比較嚴,那一國多治啊\n陳昭姿委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.923 --> 00:07.764\n謝謝主席有請彭部長請彭部長部長早今天您報告了這個碳費的收費標準那碳費就是為了因應整個氣候變遷的這個關係那環境部竟然從早期的環保署升格為環境部我想國人跟民眾對於環境部是會期許說要承擔更大的責任那我今天有幾個議題跟\n\n00:32.248 --> 00:32.588\n政府機構來配合\n\n00:48.035 --> 00:58.488\n報告委員這個其實我在民間的時候就在做這個事情所以其實第一個他是地方政府跟中央政府一起要來合作所以其實目前我必須跟委員談成關於熱熱傷害並沒有一個中央組織部會是負責這個熱的事情\n\n01:03.314 --> 01:05.977\n謝謝部長因為都市最多的就是建築物和道路的路面因為白天會吸收非常多的太陽熱能\n\n01:21.354 --> 01:21.374\n市長\n\n01:38.008 --> 01:47.891\n內政部但是事實上我們了解他並沒有把這件事當作優先的這個項目那您在今年7月31要跟環境部跟衛福部還有勞動部有共同主辦的一個一場氣候邊遷高溫調適的對策研討會所以就你也提到剛剛你也這樣說了對於極端熱這個做法目前並看不出哪一個部會會來主責所以我自己想要拜託部長我也剛剛也聽到你有這樣的回應就是說是不是由部長跟部長帶領環境部大家對於這個\n\n02:07.817 --> 02:07.977\n第5條、第3項、第9款\n\n02:34.369 --> 02:34.609\n請問部長您支持我這樣的一個修法建議嗎?\n\n02:52.293 --> 03:15.334\n謝謝委員委員你這個方式非常的好但是我也回去跟因為這個是氣候變遷整個行政院氣候變遷的這個永續會的一個主要的一個功項但是我也坦承這個熱我們並沒有去重視所以委員再給我們一點時間我待會去研商但是我非常肯定委員能夠給我們一樣一個實際上的建議都是行政跟立法部門一起來努力\n\n03:16.175 --> 03:39.585\n部長另外一個議題就是前幾天有一個報告內容是來自環境部的檢測報告那很多人看了非常驚訝就是醫院的放流水含有抗生素而且竟然這麼多家醫院包括好幾家醫學中心嚴重超標那台中榮總是那個黃胺類的藥品超標大概兩三倍那其每醫院有三項抗生素嚴重超標其中那個頭包子菌類的抗生素超標了3700多倍\n\n03:41.866 --> 04:07.376\n那就是聯衛福部的桃園醫院他也被驗出說這個這個中文叫福奎諾同類的抗生素他也高出這個標準許多那麼這兩天這個中榮跟這個部桃他都陸續對外公開澄清這個行政院退伍會說他們檢驗的結果都符合標準這件事有點嚴重部長就是說他說他們沒有但是那個環境部的檢測報告是有\n\n04:08.897 --> 04:27.297\n那是不是說要有個公正的第3次再做一次還是說大家可以比對一下你檢驗的方法檢驗的時間點等等等等就是這個是有關中融中融他說他是符合標準的就是退伏回來說明那衛福桃醫院講的就是水中抗生素可能來自服用病人的\n\n04:27.918 --> 04:29.499\n因為這麼嚴重的抗生素超標不是水污染的問題\n\n04:46.664 --> 04:46.764\n陳昭姿議員\n\n05:02.802 --> 05:16.313\n無藥可用結果大家就知道所以抗藥性一直是一個非常重要的問題那醫院這個環境跑出這個問題所以部長到底就發生什麼事情就是說為什麼他們會有不一致的說法部長你可以稍微簡單的說明一下這個發現嗎其實這個我們是用\n\n05:19.615 --> 05:42.500\n第一個大家相信環境部的這個中立的客觀的態度我們檢驗方法是用最嚴格的標準來看那這個是針對這個所謂的抗生素的標準不是放流水的標準所以醫院的確他有些超過基本的數值然後非常的多有些醫院但是我也必須說他沒有立即的危害但是我們長期來看對環境一定會有一些影響所以我們其實未來我們也希望醫院可以主動的能夠來檢討然後持續的追蹤\n\n05:43.800 --> 05:44.560\n每家醫院環境部都用代號稱呼\n\n05:59.850 --> 05:59.950\n吳清福隨報4章\n\n06:26.548 --> 06:53.675\n根委員報告因為這個是屬於還不是那我這個是屬於我們的一個研究的一個調查那這個像現在的這個康生素項目還沒有列入我們現在的放流水標準那現在就是在評估哪些項目要怎麼樣做管制所以我們有篩選的這一些關注的項目90項那分年做了一些調查那還是在調查當中那還不是一個標準的方法\n\n06:55.896 --> 06:56.496\n指出自主管理的建議,但是建議都提出來了\n\n07:18.183 --> 07:38.886\n就是建議他們要怎麼做但是沒有裁法就算說最後研究計畫結束我們真正要進行去處理的話部長那是不是說應該要有裁法嗎也許你可以說第一次發現第一次發現我們是限期改善那沒有改善這裁法還是最有用的因為這個抗生素抗藥性產生是不得了的好嗎部長就是要往這個方向去做管理可以嗎\n\n07:39.346 --> 07:39.787\n臺南的沿海也開始出現藍眼淚\n\n07:54.264 --> 08:22.166\n那近期有這個學者指出事實上藍眼類他是工業排放這個磷酸鹽或矽酸鹽所累積的生態反撲學者說藍眼類應該是一種環境污染的指標他不是奇蹟他是警訊就是排放的高濃度的碳磷酸鹽會造成河口沿海的這些生態跟養殖的負面影響那環境部對於這個水源保護區碳磷酸鹽的排放還是有管理\n\n08:22.506 --> 08:43.099\n但水源保護區以外部長你認為水源保護區以外的磷酸鹽的管理是不是要納管目前沒有管理包括其實自然的磷酸鹽像這個藍眼淚這個其實OK的但是如果像這樣的非自然的是屬於工廠工業牌上的都跑出藍眼淚了所以我們其實8月24號已經修改了預告的這個法案年底會開始公告所以這個磷酸鹽我們已經設定了標準所以部長這個建議是已經在進行\n\n08:52.005 --> 08:54.527\n中科臺中園區環境小組在2016年有會議上率先請中科管理局訂定了零酸鹽的自主管理但我們沒有簽到其他的科學園區有跟進\n\n09:11.383 --> 09:39.377\n有編著這個小表給你看看我們從這個資訊可以來看兩件事情第一個單一管理區各園區標準不一你看竹科園區它是60mg每一升但是這個龍潭園區它是120差了兩倍這第一個管理標準不一同一個園區第二個國科會有放任北中南三個科學園區各自為政有些有管理有些沒管理有些有定有些沒有定所以這樣的一個放任結果就是一國多治\n\n09:40.377 --> 10:00.888\n那環境部是不是要把總齡這個要做一個管理有一定的標準而進行總量管制還是說讓國科會自己去管理?部長沒有委員其實我們已經預告了年底會發布我們第一階段是150然後25我們會分階段來進行所以包括不會讓國家這個放任這個過去的總齡管制是一國多制囉\n\n10:01.598 --> 10:02.179\n部長覺得03管制要不要入法?\n\n10:19.458 --> 10:41.140\n我們現在的這個草案裡面已經年底就會重視...因為如果你不重視這件事你一定是重視你才會把這次的這個失業廢水調查局、污染管理、房居管理計畫這個有把列入嘛,把零算列入,就是你們重視這件事情嘛所以是不是部長一定要去執行,不要說科學園區它的標準比較寬鬆,那環境部的比較嚴,那一國多治啊\n\n10:41.340 --> 10:41.440\n陳昭姿委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.923,"end":7.764,"text":"謝謝主席有請彭部長請彭部長部長早今天您報告了這個碳費的收費標準那碳費就是為了因應整個氣候變遷的這個關係那環境部竟然從早期的環保署升格為環境部我想國人跟民眾對於環境部是會期許說要承擔更大的責任那我今天有幾個議題跟"},{"start":32.248,"end":32.588,"text":"政府機構來配合"},{"start":48.035,"end":58.488,"text":"報告委員 這個其實我在民間的時候就在做這個事情所以其實第一個他是地方政府跟中央政府一起要來合作所以其實目前我必須跟委員談成關於熱 熱傷害並沒有一個中央組織部會是負責這個熱的事情"},{"start":63.314,"end":65.977,"text":"謝謝部長因為都市最多的就是建築物和道路的路面因為白天會吸收非常多的太陽熱能"},{"start":81.354,"end":81.374,"text":"市長"},{"start":98.008,"end":107.891,"text":"內政部但是事實上我們了解他並沒有把這件事當作優先的這個項目那您在今年7月31要跟環境部跟衛福部還有勞動部有共同主辦的一個一場氣候邊遷高溫調適的對策研討會所以就你也提到剛剛你也這樣說了對於極端熱這個做法目前並看不出哪一個部會會來主責所以我自己想要拜託部長我也剛剛也聽到你有這樣的回應就是說是不是由部長跟部長帶領環境部大家對於這個"},{"start":127.817,"end":127.977,"text":"第5條、第3項、第9款"},{"start":154.369,"end":154.609,"text":"請問部長您支持我這樣的一個修法建議嗎?"},{"start":172.293,"end":195.334,"text":"謝謝委員 委員你這個方式非常的好但是我也回去跟因為這個是氣候變遷整個行政院氣候變遷的這個永續會的一個主要的一個功項但是我也坦承這個熱我們並沒有去重視所以委員再給我們一點時間我待會去研商但是我非常肯定委員能夠給我們一樣一個實際上的建議都是行政跟立法部門一起來努力"},{"start":196.175,"end":219.585,"text":"部長另外一個議題就是前幾天有一個報告內容是來自環境部的檢測報告那很多人看了非常驚訝就是醫院的放流水含有抗生素而且竟然這麼多家醫院包括好幾家醫學中心嚴重超標那台中榮總是那個黃胺類的藥品超標大概兩三倍那其每醫院有三項抗生素嚴重超標其中那個頭包子菌類的抗生素超標了3700多倍"},{"start":221.866,"end":247.376,"text":"那就是聯衛福部的桃園醫院他也被驗出說這個這個中文叫福奎諾同類的抗生素他也高出這個標準許多那麼這兩天這個中榮跟這個部桃他都陸續對外公開澄清這個行政院退伍會說他們檢驗的結果都符合標準這件事有點嚴重部長就是說他說他們沒有但是那個環境部的檢測報告是有"},{"start":248.897,"end":267.297,"text":"那是不是說要有個公正的第3次再做一次還是說大家可以比對一下你檢驗的方法檢驗的時間點等等等等就是這個是有關中融中融他說他是符合標準的就是退伏回來說明那衛福桃醫院講的就是水中抗生素可能來自服用病人的"},{"start":267.918,"end":269.499,"text":"因為這麼嚴重的抗生素超標不是水污染的問題"},{"start":286.664,"end":286.764,"text":"陳昭姿議員"},{"start":302.802,"end":316.313,"text":"無藥可用結果大家就知道所以抗藥性一直是一個非常重要的問題那醫院這個環境跑出這個問題所以部長到底就發生什麼事情就是說為什麼他們會有不一致的說法部長你可以稍微簡單的說明一下這個發現嗎其實這個我們是用"},{"start":319.615,"end":342.5,"text":"第一個大家相信環境部的這個中立的客觀的態度我們檢驗方法是用最嚴格的標準來看那這個是針對這個所謂的抗生素的標準不是放流水的標準所以醫院的確他有些超過基本的數值然後非常的多有些醫院但是我也必須說他沒有立即的危害但是我們長期來看對環境一定會有一些影響所以我們其實未來我們也希望醫院可以主動的能夠來檢討然後持續的追蹤"},{"start":343.8,"end":344.56,"text":"每家醫院環境部都用代號稱呼"},{"start":359.85,"end":359.95,"text":"吳清福隨報4章"},{"start":386.548,"end":413.675,"text":"根委員報告因為這個是屬於還不是那我這個是屬於我們的一個研究的一個調查那這個像現在的這個康生素項目還沒有列入我們現在的放流水標準那現在就是在評估哪些項目要怎麼樣做管制所以我們有篩選的這一些關注的項目90項那分年做了一些調查那還是在調查當中那還不是一個標準的方法"},{"start":415.896,"end":416.496,"text":"指出自主管理的建議,但是建議都提出來了"},{"start":438.183,"end":458.886,"text":"就是建議他們要怎麼做但是沒有裁法就算說最後研究計畫結束我們真正要進行去處理的話部長那是不是說應該要有裁法嗎也許你可以說第一次發現第一次發現我們是限期改善那沒有改善這裁法還是最有用的因為這個抗生素抗藥性產生是不得了的好嗎部長就是要往這個方向去做管理可以嗎"},{"start":459.346,"end":459.787,"text":"臺南的沿海也開始出現藍眼淚"},{"start":474.264,"end":502.166,"text":"那近期有這個學者指出事實上藍眼類他是工業排放這個磷酸鹽或矽酸鹽所累積的生態反撲學者說藍眼類應該是一種環境污染的指標他不是奇蹟他是警訊就是排放的高濃度的碳磷酸鹽會造成河口沿海的這些生態跟養殖的負面影響那環境部對於這個水源保護區碳磷酸鹽的排放還是有管理"},{"start":502.506,"end":523.099,"text":"但水源保護區以外部長你認為水源保護區以外的磷酸鹽的管理是不是要納管目前沒有管理包括其實自然的磷酸鹽像這個藍眼淚這個其實OK的但是如果像這樣的非自然的是屬於工廠工業牌上的都跑出藍眼淚了所以我們其實8月24號已經修改了預告的這個法案年底會開始公告所以這個磷酸鹽我們已經設定了標準所以部長這個建議是已經在進行"},{"start":532.005,"end":534.527,"text":"中科臺中園區環境小組在2016年有會議上率先請中科管理局訂定了零酸鹽的自主管理但我們沒有簽到其他的科學園區有跟進"},{"start":551.383,"end":579.377,"text":"有編著這個小表給你看看我們從這個資訊可以來看兩件事情第一個單一管理區各園區標準不一你看竹科園區它是60mg每一升但是這個龍潭園區它是120差了兩倍這第一個管理標準不一同一個園區第二個國科會有放任北中南三個科學園區各自為政有些有管理有些沒管理有些有定有些沒有定所以這樣的一個放任結果就是一國多治"},{"start":580.377,"end":600.888,"text":"那環境部是不是要把總齡這個要做一個管理有一定的標準而進行總量管制還是說讓國科會自己去管理?部長沒有委員其實我們已經預告了年底會發布我們第一階段是150然後25我們會分階段來進行所以包括不會讓國家這個放任這個過去的總齡管制是一國多制囉"},{"start":601.598,"end":602.179,"text":"部長覺得03管制要不要入法?"},{"start":619.458,"end":641.14,"text":"我們現在的這個草案裡面已經年底就會重視...因為如果你不重視這件事你一定是重視你才會把這次的這個失業廢水調查局、污染管理、房居管理計畫這個有把列入嘛,把零算列入,就是你們重視這件事情嘛所以是不是部長一定要去執行,不要說科學園區它的標準比較寬鬆,那環境部的比較嚴,那一國多治啊"},{"start":641.34,"end":641.44,"text":"陳昭姿委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-3","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:14:06 - 09:24:55","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部就「台灣的碳費收費標準決議」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155397,"gazette":{"lineno":216,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時14分）謝謝主席，有請彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：陳委員早。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早。今天您報告了碳費的收費標準，碳費就是為了因應整個氣候變遷的關係，環境部既然從早期的環保署升格為環境部，我想國人跟民眾對於環境部會期許要承擔更大的責任。我今天有幾個議題跟部長做討論，第一個，就是都市的熱島效應現在越來越嚴重了，不知道部長對這個部分有沒有一個基本的解方？就是都市熱島效應，需要哪一些部門？哪一些政府機構來配合？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實我在民間的時候就在做這個事情，第一個，它是地方政府跟中央政府要一起合作，所以目前我必須跟委員坦承，關於熱傷害並沒有一個中央主責部會，到時候我也會再跟行政院報告是不是誰要來主責，如果未來希望環境部來主責，我個人是非常願意來進行這樣協同的規劃。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝部長，都市最多的就是建築物，因為道路的路面白天會吸收非常多的太陽熱能，造成都市即便到了晚上都還持續在發散這些熱能，對於這個我想基本上有幾件事要做，都市的綠化覆蓋率還有建築物、道路鋪面的建材等等。其實，它的目的事業主管機關是內政部……"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是事實上我們瞭解，內政部並沒有把這件事當作優先的項目。在今年7月31號環境部、衛福部還有勞動部共同主辦一場氣候變遷高溫調適對策研討會，所以剛剛你也提到、也這樣說了，對於極端熱的作法，目前看不出哪一個部會會來主責。所以我這裡想要拜託部長，我剛剛也聽到你有這樣的回應，是不是由部長帶領環境部擔起治理氣候變遷的主責，去協調跟要求其他部會來做這件事？","部長，為了讓您能夠有法源跟武器來協調當中相關的部會，本席已經針對環境部主責的氣候變遷因應法提出了修法的草案，我在第五條第三項增訂了第九款，是讓環境部可以依此來要求內政部等部會來配合，推動都市環境綠化覆蓋率的提升，還有從建築的技術、工法跟建材來提升建築的能效。請問部長，您支持我這樣的一個修法建議嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員，你這個方式非常的好，但是因為這個是整個行政院氣候變遷──永續會一個主要的工項，但是我也坦承關於熱，我們並沒有去重視。所以委員再給我們一點時間，我帶回去研商，但是我非常肯定委員能夠給我們一個實際上的建議。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，行政跟立法部門一起來努力嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：好，可以。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，另外一個議題，前幾天有一個報告，內容是來自環境部的檢測報告，很多人看了非常驚訝，就是醫院的放流水含有抗生素，而且竟然這麼多家醫院，包括好幾家醫學中心嚴重超標。臺中榮總是磺胺類的藥品超標大概2、3倍；奇美醫院有3項抗生素嚴重超標，其中頭孢子菌素類的抗生素超標了三千七百多倍耶！就連衛福部的桃園醫院，也被驗出中文叫氟喹諾酮類的抗生素，它也高出這個標準許多。這兩天中榮跟部桃都陸續對外公開澄清，行政院退輔會說他們檢驗的結果都符合標準，這件事有一點嚴重，部長，它說他們沒有，但是環境部的檢測報告是有，是不是要有一個公正的第三者再做一次？還是說大家可以比對一下你檢驗的方法、檢驗的時間點等等，這個是有關中榮，中榮說自己是符合標準的，就是退輔會有說明。而衛福部桃園醫院講的，水中抗生素可能來自服用病人的排出，那簡直是白講嘛，本來就是這樣啊，醫院照顧病人、擔心病人會感染，不管是預防性使用或是治療性使用，抗生素使用是跑不掉的，這只是說明來源，但是這個還是要處理。","部長，因為這麼嚴重的抗生素超標，它不是水污染的問題耶，它背後反映更重要一個問題叫做抗藥性，這個抗藥性一旦產生，超級細菌就會存留下來，這個就是「適者生存」所謂的超級細菌，這樣一旦病人有感染細菌，我們有可能無藥可用，無藥可用的結果，大家就知道了。所以抗藥性一直是一個非常重要的問題，而醫院環境跑出這個問題，所以部長，到底發生什麼事情？為什麼他們會有不一致的說法？部長，你可以稍微簡單的說明一下這個發現嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員，其實第一個，大家要相信環境部中立客觀的態度，我們檢驗方法是用最嚴格的標準來看，這個是針對所謂抗生素的標準，不是放流水的標準，所以醫院的確有些超過基本的數值，然後有些醫院非常的多。我也必須說它沒有立即的危害，但是我們長期來看，對環境一定會有一些影響，所以其實未來我們也希望醫院可以主動的能夠來檢討，然後持續的追蹤。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你客氣了，沒有立即危害，但這搞不好已經持續很久了，我們覺得那個危害可能天天在產生。部長，我去跟環境部要了報告，是委託中興工程做的調查成果報告，發現報告裡面有幾件事情，第一個，每家醫院環境部都用代號稱呼，或是把醫院的名稱遮掩起來，為什麼要用代號或遮掩起來呢？這個問題滿嚴重的，為什麼要遮掩起來呢？你知道美國食品藥管理局，他們只要查到任何藥廠有哪一些不合格的就馬上公告上網，上網以後它可以改善，改善以後就沒有了，大家就會用這個方式來檢驗，就是以示公正，也讓國人有知的權利，為什麼把名字遮起來呢？"],["彭部長啓明：我請水保司長來回答。"],["王司長嶽斌：跟委員報告，因為這個是屬於我們的一個研究調查，像現在的這個抗生素項目還沒有列入我們的放流水標準，現在就是在評估哪些項目要怎麼樣做管制，所以我們有篩選了這一些關注項目90項，然後分年做了一些調查，因為還在調查當中，還不是一個標準的方法……"],["陳委員昭姿：我瞭解了，可是已經三年了，三年的研究計畫！"],["王司長嶽斌：對，因為項目非常的多，然後對象也非常的多，所以一般我們參考國外的作法就是分年會做調查，在分年調查告一個階段之後，我們把它公告為接下來要強制遞減申報、削減的一些項目。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝司長，但現在已經有建議啦，就是對這些醫院有提出自主管理的建議，但是沒有裁罰，建議都提出來了耶，就是建議他們要怎麼做，但是沒有裁罰，就算最後研究計畫結束，我們真正要進行去處理的話，部長，是不是應該要有裁罰？也許你可以說第一次發現的話我們就限期改善，如果沒有改善的話，裁罰還是最有用的啊，因為這個抗生素抗藥性產生是不得了的，好嗎？部長，就是要往這個方向去做管理，可以嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：有，委員，我們9月26號預告這個的草案出來，預計未來如果超過的話，會罰一萬以上六百萬以下的罰鍰。"],["陳委員昭姿：好的，謝謝部長，我們下面還有一個很重要的議題。去年開始，除了馬祖，臺南的沿海也開始出現藍眼淚，近期有學者指出，事實上藍眼淚是工業排放磷酸鹽或矽酸鹽所累積的生態反撲，學者說藍眼淚應該是一種環境污染的指標喔，它不是奇蹟，它是警訊，就是排放了高濃度的磷酸鹽會造成河口沿海的生態跟養殖的負面影響。環境部對於水源保護區的磷酸鹽排放是有管理，但水源保護區以外呢？部長，你認為水源保護區以外的磷酸鹽排放的管理是不是也要納管呢？因為這個目前沒有管理耶！"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實自然的磷酸鹽，像藍眼淚，這個其實是OK的，但是如果像這樣是非自然的，是屬於工廠、工業排放的就有問題……"],["陳委員昭姿：都跑出藍眼淚了！"],["彭部長啓明：所以，我們在8月24號已經修改了預告的法案，年底會開始公告，所以這個磷酸鹽我們已經設定標準了。"],["陳委員昭姿：所以部長，這件事已經在進行了？"],["彭部長啓明：已經進行了，對。"],["陳委員昭姿：那這樣我要談到高科技工業重地國科會科學園區的磷酸鹽的管理問題，我們先就中科來看，臺中園區環監小組不錯，2016年在會議上有率先請中科管理局訂定了磷酸鹽的自主管理，但我們沒有看到其他的科學園區有跟進，你看右邊的這個小表格，我們從這個資訊可以看出兩件事情，第一個，單一管理區各園區標準不一，竹科園區是60mg/L，但是龍潭園區是120mg/L，差了2倍，這是第一個同一個園區，管理標準不一。第二個，國科會放任北、中、南三個科學園區各自為政，有些有管理有些沒管理，有些有訂有些沒有訂，所以這樣的一個放任結果就是一國多制。環境部是不是要把總磷做一個管理，有一定的標準，然後去進行總量管制，還是讓國科會自己去管理？部長？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，委員，其實我們已經預告了，年底會發布，我們第一階段是100、50然後25，我們會分階段來進行，所以今年年底會發布管制……"],["陳委員昭姿：所以不會讓國家放任過去的總磷管制是一國多制了？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，現在以我們為準，這個總磷管制……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，那我再確定一下，就是總磷管制這件事，不是國科會而是環境部，是嗎？我這樣解釋對嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：這個是環評，這個是環境影響評估裡面的，當時個別要求的一個標準。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長覺得磷酸管制要不要入法？"],["彭部長啓明：我們現在的這個草案裡面已經……年底就會正式公告。"],["陳委員昭姿：你一定是重視，你才會在這次的事業廢水調查及污染防治管理計畫把磷酸鹽也列入，就是你們重視這件事情嘛……"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：所以部長一定要去執行，不要科學園區的標準比較寬鬆，環境部的比較嚴，然後一國多制！"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，就全部以我們為準，這個在年底會公告，謝謝。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳昭姿委員的發言。","接下來請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-3","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","涂權吉","陳菁徽","柯志恩","李坤城","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","王鴻薇","牛煦庭","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","廖先翔","羅智強","張智倫","林淑芬","洪孟楷","楊曜","黃健豪","賴惠員","陳瑩","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部就「台灣的碳費收費標準決議」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00001"}}}