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619.18, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"督\", \"start\": 619.18, \"end\": 619.301, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 619.301, \"end\": 619.521, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 619.521, \"end\": 619.801, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 619.801, \"end\": 619.821, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,724 --> 00:00:29,325\n大家好,我們請次長還有臺鐵請五次長還有多維董事長五言好五次長好那個10月16電價調整新制那聽說後面就是漲價的那個原則跟狀況\n\n2\n00:00:32,114 --> 00:00:51,511\n其實民眾還是有意見那我想請教一下就是漲價要怎麼漲那有沒有分比較平民化的跟比較弱勢的那要怎麼樣去處理我想我跟那個委員報告這個票價調漲我想\n\n3\n00:00:54,130 --> 00:01:14,750\n我們要必須考慮到整個運輸界的這樣一個整合、競合第二考慮到社會的經濟狀況還有對民眾影響的程度這幾個因素來進行考量那當然我們不希望說因為這樣的漲價帶頭對物價有所影響所以這個是目前台鐵我所知道台鐵目前正在\n\n4\n00:01:15,450 --> 00:01:16,612\n這一個我們其實上一次已經有送過董事會一次\n\n5\n00:01:35,894 --> 00:02:02,330\n但是董事會有退給這個經理單位因為裡面的資料還不夠齊備包括這些估算那另外還有就是委員剛剛有提到的就是對於社會以及弱勢的這個影響因為我們台鐵的輸運是短中長都有那我們上一次董事會呢退回來有一部分原因也是因為\n\n6\n00:02:03,670 --> 00:02:06,251\n臺鐵的電價跟全世界各國比較的狀況,董事來這邊有沒有概念?\n\n7\n00:02:24,418 --> 00:02:32,330\n其實可能大家都一直認為說台鐵其實它是真的算是用電的大戶啦因為車子開了全部要電力\n\n8\n00:02:33,410 --> 00:02:56,758\n那我所知道他們做了很多節能的一個工作包括像新車、新校的引進那另外那個比如說在開設的時候要求那個事件能夠不要所謂的急死急停類似像這種情況那他以前年12年的4月到今年的3月這個期間來\n\n9\n00:02:59,059 --> 00:03:25,490\n跟今年的4月到9月來比大概節省了9.1%我想它有很大的一個成效當然這中間也包括跟臺電的節電的小組跟他請教應該怎麼去節電我想這部分臺鐵會更深入針對這個節電的部分來做市長跟董事長我是要提一個建議你可能可以參考就是說第一個就是你比如說全世界的票價\n\n10\n00:03:27,086 --> 00:03:46,613\n一樣是20公里那你們可以去做一個比較啊那看台鐵是不是有比日本有比韓國還貴還是比較便宜這個就是一個客觀的參考嘛那第二個就是說我今天就是像台電前一陣子調整電價的時候他叫做精準調漲\n\n11\n00:03:48,459 --> 00:04:11,494\n我是覺得那個概念還不錯就是說你今天比較平民化的比較用電少的他是調著他幾乎是不調或是調得很小那當然用電大戶啦或者是就是真的是賺錢的你比如說企業還有中小企業跟那個大企業啊中小企業就是調比較少啊大企業調比較多\n\n12\n00:04:13,178 --> 00:04:25,837\n這個是當然用電或因為有太多不同的方向那比如說我們的台鐵調漲你第一個比較全世界各國一樣的這個公里數大概做一個概念上的比較你就會發現台鐵是比較貴還是比較便宜\n\n13\n00:04:28,698 --> 00:04:48,960\n那你要去說服人民說我要調漲票價的理由你就有個客觀的標準你就比較好參考所以這個是一個數目字我是覺得你們應該去了解一下那第二個就是說我今天在平快車或者是對號或者是\n\n14\n00:04:50,103 --> 00:05:13,183\n至強舉光有什麼差別那我今天如果要做更好的可能調更多我今天如果要做最便宜的你就不要給我怎麼調或是調少一點類似這樣子的概念是不是在你們調整票價的時候可以去做思考不要讓人民其實我們先重視那個就是最弱勢的那一底層吧\n\n15\n00:05:13,885 --> 00:05:26,003\n那就是弱勢的底層如果他對他影響很大他就比較會受不了嘛那你如果比較坦白講比如說是富豪之類的那個你給他調整他也沒什麼多大的感覺啦\n\n16\n00:05:27,383 --> 00:05:52,468\n所以我是覺得就是說這兩個概念讓市長尤其是董事長思考一下要怎麼樣去調漲在現實的狀況跟世界各國做比較我勉強可以接受我們台鐵的調漲但是我調漲的時候有思考到弱勢要怎麼樣讓他不會影響太大我想這兩個概念是不是請台鐵可以思考一下好那另外就是說\n\n17\n00:05:55,137 --> 00:06:14,384\n剛剛李昆澤立委提到的那個安全系統的問題事實上我們也一直在強調台鐵的安全那我在之前也聊過也跟質詢過就是我們的那個員工的福利啦那就是說你今天員工的福利跟安全這個部分你要怎麼樣去搭配\n\n18\n00:06:15,856 --> 00:06:25,704\n你又要馬而肥,又要馬而不吃草我知道那個東部,上一次我們有一次說招募七個人,結果只有一個人來報名,結果錄取0人照理講,在內公務機關,國營7月,大家是趨之若鶩,台鐵是找不到人當然有的人會比較高鐵幣,現在屬性高鐵比較賺錢\n\n19\n00:06:42,036 --> 00:07:01,269\n所以我們在轉型的過程當中怎麼樣去精準調整不要影響到太多的平民弱勢但是你可以在你的盈餘上或者是你其實多角化經營其實像有很多捷運在做那個商辦啊、都更啊當然不能像那個\n\n20\n00:07:02,711 --> 00:07:22,356\n客批那樣子都更啦那個392變840那個比較誇張但是你是合理的合理的都更其實這個都是好的所以我是覺得就是說臺鐵可以再做一下思考那對員工的福利可以調漲的我知道現在那個現場檢察員跟盜班導師盜班師傅他們都有那個甲級證照喔就一個月而已三萬塊你找得到嗎\n\n21\n00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:37,297\n這一定請不上人,因為你要求管,後禮拜他當然是,你譬如說比較特別的,你其實要去做\n\n22\n00:07:38,550 --> 00:08:01,549\n做那個比較精準的就是去看看他的工作量跟他的技術、證照跟他的薪水的搭配這個部分也應該去做一下思考所以這個部分請那個我們台鐵公司也另外再特別的要求一下那最後還有一樣就是鳳山車站的BOT現在那個董事長有預計了嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:04,709 --> 00:08:18,416\n我們還在努力中我們現在已經有開公告了依據11月底會結標我是建議董事長這件事希望你積極可以親自去\n\n24\n00:08:19,797 --> 00:08:47,455\n監督跟協助一下有有有因為其實當時的設計坦白講我們重視的是外部的改變那時候改變很漂亮我們也要求的很久啊終於有一個很大的改變所以蓋好之後坦白講我還覺得滿感謝台鐵也很用心啊也做這一部分也做得不錯啦但是我後來才知道內部的設計吼內部的設計真的還是不符一般的商場的使用\n\n25\n00:08:48,550 --> 00:09:08,035\n所以在內部的設計你們要做內部的怎麼樣的去改變或者是說讓人家覺得說一來會合啦雙門來撩錢沒人會來啦所以當然就是說我知道這個有時候我們在POT很辛苦在圖利跟合理的利潤跟撩錢\n\n26\n00:09:10,585 --> 00:09:31,728\n這個中間要拿捏到什麼程度你才能夠找到好的BOT廠商來這邊做經營我希望說董事長這邊是不是可以親自的去把它監督要求不要說第二次再留標就很難看了是是我會來努力所以董事長第二次有沒有信心可以招標出去\n\n27\n00:09:32,048 --> 00:09:59,422\n有,因為現在我們第一個齁我們這一次招標我們的招標的條件我們有做一些調整應該是吸引力會增加所以第二個我們也實際有去邀標啦訪商啦聽取他們的意見我想那個結果論啦齁那個第二次是11月底嘛對不對希望說董事長有信心能夠完成這件事這樣子沒問題吧\n\n28\n00:10:02,389 --> 00:10:19,821\n董事長沒問題齁是我們來努力好啦那個希望你盡量去努力啦也希望說這件事情能完成要不然會變成我們一個風山的遺憾希望這部分董事長可以加緊腳步按監督要求好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3724\t29325\t大家好,我們請次長還有臺鐵請五次長還有多維董事長五言好五次長好那個10月16電價調整新制那聽說後面就是漲價的那個原則跟狀況\n32114\t51511\t其實民眾還是有意見那我想請教一下就是漲價要怎麼漲那有沒有分比較平民化的跟比較弱勢的那要怎麼樣去處理我想我跟那個委員報告這個票價調漲我想\n54130\t74750\t我們要必須考慮到整個運輸界的這樣一個整合、競合第二考慮到社會的經濟狀況還有對民眾影響的程度這幾個因素來進行考量那當然我們不希望說因為這樣的漲價帶頭對物價有所影響所以這個是目前台鐵我所知道台鐵目前正在\n75450\t76612\t這一個我們其實上一次已經有送過董事會一次\n95894\t122330\t但是董事會有退給這個經理單位因為裡面的資料還不夠齊備包括這些估算那另外還有就是委員剛剛有提到的就是對於社會以及弱勢的這個影響因為我們台鐵的輸運是短中長都有那我們上一次董事會呢退回來有一部分原因也是因為\n123670\t126251\t臺鐵的電價跟全世界各國比較的狀況,董事來這邊有沒有概念?\n144418\t152330\t其實可能大家都一直認為說台鐵其實它是真的算是用電的大戶啦因為車子開了全部要電力\n153410\t176758\t那我所知道他們做了很多節能的一個工作包括像新車、新校的引進那另外那個比如說在開設的時候要求那個事件能夠不要所謂的急死急停類似像這種情況那他以前年12年的4月到今年的3月這個期間來\n179059\t205490\t跟今年的4月到9月來比大概節省了9.1%我想它有很大的一個成效當然這中間也包括跟臺電的節電的小組跟他請教應該怎麼去節電我想這部分臺鐵會更深入針對這個節電的部分來做市長跟董事長我是要提一個建議你可能可以參考就是說第一個就是你比如說全世界的票價\n207086\t226613\t一樣是20公里那你們可以去做一個比較啊那看台鐵是不是有比日本有比韓國還貴還是比較便宜這個就是一個客觀的參考嘛那第二個就是說我今天就是像台電前一陣子調整電價的時候他叫做精準調漲\n228459\t251494\t我是覺得那個概念還不錯就是說你今天比較平民化的比較用電少的他是調著他幾乎是不調或是調得很小那當然用電大戶啦或者是就是真的是賺錢的你比如說企業還有中小企業跟那個大企業啊中小企業就是調比較少啊大企業調比較多\n253178\t265837\t這個是當然用電或因為有太多不同的方向那比如說我們的台鐵調漲你第一個比較全世界各國一樣的這個公里數大概做一個概念上的比較你就會發現台鐵是比較貴還是比較便宜\n268698\t288960\t那你要去說服人民說我要調漲票價的理由你就有個客觀的標準你就比較好參考所以這個是一個數目字我是覺得你們應該去了解一下那第二個就是說我今天在平快車或者是對號或者是\n290103\t313183\t至強舉光有什麼差別那我今天如果要做更好的可能調更多我今天如果要做最便宜的你就不要給我怎麼調或是調少一點類似這樣子的概念是不是在你們調整票價的時候可以去做思考不要讓人民其實我們先重視那個就是最弱勢的那一底層吧\n313885\t326003\t那就是弱勢的底層如果他對他影響很大他就比較會受不了嘛那你如果比較坦白講比如說是富豪之類的那個你給他調整他也沒什麼多大的感覺啦\n327383\t352468\t所以我是覺得就是說這兩個概念讓市長尤其是董事長思考一下要怎麼樣去調漲在現實的狀況跟世界各國做比較我勉強可以接受我們台鐵的調漲但是我調漲的時候有思考到弱勢要怎麼樣讓他不會影響太大我想這兩個概念是不是請台鐵可以思考一下好那另外就是說\n355137\t374384\t剛剛李昆澤立委提到的那個安全系統的問題事實上我們也一直在強調台鐵的安全那我在之前也聊過也跟質詢過就是我們的那個員工的福利啦那就是說你今天員工的福利跟安全這個部分你要怎麼樣去搭配\n375856\t385704\t你又要馬而肥,又要馬而不吃草我知道那個東部,上一次我們有一次說招募七個人,結果只有一個人來報名,結果錄取0人照理講,在內公務機關,國營7月,大家是趨之若鶩,台鐵是找不到人當然有的人會比較高鐵幣,現在屬性高鐵比較賺錢\n402036\t421269\t所以我們在轉型的過程當中怎麼樣去精準調整不要影響到太多的平民弱勢但是你可以在你的盈餘上或者是你其實多角化經營其實像有很多捷運在做那個商辦啊、都更啊當然不能像那個\n422711\t442356\t客批那樣子都更啦那個392變840那個比較誇張但是你是合理的合理的都更其實這個都是好的所以我是覺得就是說臺鐵可以再做一下思考那對員工的福利可以調漲的我知道現在那個現場檢察員跟盜班導師盜班師傅他們都有那個甲級證照喔就一個月而已三萬塊你找得到嗎\n449600\t457297\t這一定請不上人,因為你要求管,後禮拜他當然是,你譬如說比較特別的,你其實要去做\n458550\t481549\t做那個比較精準的就是去看看他的工作量跟他的技術、證照跟他的薪水的搭配這個部分也應該去做一下思考所以這個部分請那個我們台鐵公司也另外再特別的要求一下那最後還有一樣就是鳳山車站的BOT現在那個董事長有預計了嗎?\n484709\t498416\t我們還在努力中我們現在已經有開公告了依據11月底會結標我是建議董事長這件事希望你積極可以親自去\n499797\t527455\t監督跟協助一下有有有因為其實當時的設計坦白講我們重視的是外部的改變那時候改變很漂亮我們也要求的很久啊終於有一個很大的改變所以蓋好之後坦白講我還覺得滿感謝台鐵也很用心啊也做這一部分也做得不錯啦但是我後來才知道內部的設計吼內部的設計真的還是不符一般的商場的使用\n528550\t548035\t所以在內部的設計你們要做內部的怎麼樣的去改變或者是說讓人家覺得說一來會合啦雙門來撩錢沒人會來啦所以當然就是說我知道這個有時候我們在POT很辛苦在圖利跟合理的利潤跟撩錢\n550585\t571728\t這個中間要拿捏到什麼程度你才能夠找到好的BOT廠商來這邊做經營我希望說董事長這邊是不是可以親自的去把它監督要求不要說第二次再留標就很難看了是是我會來努力所以董事長第二次有沒有信心可以招標出去\n572048\t599422\t有,因為現在我們第一個齁我們這一次招標我們的招標的條件我們有做一些調整應該是吸引力會增加所以第二個我們也實際有去邀標啦訪商啦聽取他們的意見我想那個結果論啦齁那個第二次是11月底嘛對不對希望說董事長有信心能夠完成這件事這樣子沒問題吧\n602389\t619821\t董事長沒問題齁是我們來努力好啦那個希望你盡量去努力啦也希望說這件事情能完成要不然會變成我們一個風山的遺憾希望這部分董事長可以加緊腳步按監督要求好謝謝\n","txt":"大家好,我們請次長還有臺鐵請五次長還有多維董事長五言好五次長好那個10月16電價調整新制那聽說後面就是漲價的那個原則跟狀況\n其實民眾還是有意見那我想請教一下就是漲價要怎麼漲那有沒有分比較平民化的跟比較弱勢的那要怎麼樣去處理我想我跟那個委員報告這個票價調漲我想\n我們要必須考慮到整個運輸界的這樣一個整合、競合第二考慮到社會的經濟狀況還有對民眾影響的程度這幾個因素來進行考量那當然我們不希望說因為這樣的漲價帶頭對物價有所影響所以這個是目前台鐵我所知道台鐵目前正在\n這一個我們其實上一次已經有送過董事會一次\n但是董事會有退給這個經理單位因為裡面的資料還不夠齊備包括這些估算那另外還有就是委員剛剛有提到的就是對於社會以及弱勢的這個影響因為我們台鐵的輸運是短中長都有那我們上一次董事會呢退回來有一部分原因也是因為\n臺鐵的電價跟全世界各國比較的狀況,董事來這邊有沒有概念?\n其實可能大家都一直認為說台鐵其實它是真的算是用電的大戶啦因為車子開了全部要電力\n那我所知道他們做了很多節能的一個工作包括像新車、新校的引進那另外那個比如說在開設的時候要求那個事件能夠不要所謂的急死急停類似像這種情況那他以前年12年的4月到今年的3月這個期間來\n跟今年的4月到9月來比大概節省了9.1%我想它有很大的一個成效當然這中間也包括跟臺電的節電的小組跟他請教應該怎麼去節電我想這部分臺鐵會更深入針對這個節電的部分來做市長跟董事長我是要提一個建議你可能可以參考就是說第一個就是你比如說全世界的票價\n一樣是20公里那你們可以去做一個比較啊那看台鐵是不是有比日本有比韓國還貴還是比較便宜這個就是一個客觀的參考嘛那第二個就是說我今天就是像台電前一陣子調整電價的時候他叫做精準調漲\n我是覺得那個概念還不錯就是說你今天比較平民化的比較用電少的他是調著他幾乎是不調或是調得很小那當然用電大戶啦或者是就是真的是賺錢的你比如說企業還有中小企業跟那個大企業啊中小企業就是調比較少啊大企業調比較多\n這個是當然用電或因為有太多不同的方向那比如說我們的台鐵調漲你第一個比較全世界各國一樣的這個公里數大概做一個概念上的比較你就會發現台鐵是比較貴還是比較便宜\n那你要去說服人民說我要調漲票價的理由你就有個客觀的標準你就比較好參考所以這個是一個數目字我是覺得你們應該去了解一下那第二個就是說我今天在平快車或者是對號或者是\n至強舉光有什麼差別那我今天如果要做更好的可能調更多我今天如果要做最便宜的你就不要給我怎麼調或是調少一點類似這樣子的概念是不是在你們調整票價的時候可以去做思考不要讓人民其實我們先重視那個就是最弱勢的那一底層吧\n那就是弱勢的底層如果他對他影響很大他就比較會受不了嘛那你如果比較坦白講比如說是富豪之類的那個你給他調整他也沒什麼多大的感覺啦\n所以我是覺得就是說這兩個概念讓市長尤其是董事長思考一下要怎麼樣去調漲在現實的狀況跟世界各國做比較我勉強可以接受我們台鐵的調漲但是我調漲的時候有思考到弱勢要怎麼樣讓他不會影響太大我想這兩個概念是不是請台鐵可以思考一下好那另外就是說\n剛剛李昆澤立委提到的那個安全系統的問題事實上我們也一直在強調台鐵的安全那我在之前也聊過也跟質詢過就是我們的那個員工的福利啦那就是說你今天員工的福利跟安全這個部分你要怎麼樣去搭配\n你又要馬而肥,又要馬而不吃草我知道那個東部,上一次我們有一次說招募七個人,結果只有一個人來報名,結果錄取0人照理講,在內公務機關,國營7月,大家是趨之若鶩,台鐵是找不到人當然有的人會比較高鐵幣,現在屬性高鐵比較賺錢\n所以我們在轉型的過程當中怎麼樣去精準調整不要影響到太多的平民弱勢但是你可以在你的盈餘上或者是你其實多角化經營其實像有很多捷運在做那個商辦啊、都更啊當然不能像那個\n客批那樣子都更啦那個392變840那個比較誇張但是你是合理的合理的都更其實這個都是好的所以我是覺得就是說臺鐵可以再做一下思考那對員工的福利可以調漲的我知道現在那個現場檢察員跟盜班導師盜班師傅他們都有那個甲級證照喔就一個月而已三萬塊你找得到嗎\n這一定請不上人,因為你要求管,後禮拜他當然是,你譬如說比較特別的,你其實要去做\n做那個比較精準的就是去看看他的工作量跟他的技術、證照跟他的薪水的搭配這個部分也應該去做一下思考所以這個部分請那個我們台鐵公司也另外再特別的要求一下那最後還有一樣就是鳳山車站的BOT現在那個董事長有預計了嗎?\n我們還在努力中我們現在已經有開公告了依據11月底會結標我是建議董事長這件事希望你積極可以親自去\n監督跟協助一下有有有因為其實當時的設計坦白講我們重視的是外部的改變那時候改變很漂亮我們也要求的很久啊終於有一個很大的改變所以蓋好之後坦白講我還覺得滿感謝台鐵也很用心啊也做這一部分也做得不錯啦但是我後來才知道內部的設計吼內部的設計真的還是不符一般的商場的使用\n所以在內部的設計你們要做內部的怎麼樣的去改變或者是說讓人家覺得說一來會合啦雙門來撩錢沒人會來啦所以當然就是說我知道這個有時候我們在POT很辛苦在圖利跟合理的利潤跟撩錢\n這個中間要拿捏到什麼程度你才能夠找到好的BOT廠商來這邊做經營我希望說董事長這邊是不是可以親自的去把它監督要求不要說第二次再留標就很難看了是是我會來努力所以董事長第二次有沒有信心可以招標出去\n有,因為現在我們第一個齁我們這一次招標我們的招標的條件我們有做一些調整應該是吸引力會增加所以第二個我們也實際有去邀標啦訪商啦聽取他們的意見我想那個結果論啦齁那個第二次是11月底嘛對不對希望說董事長有信心能夠完成這件事這樣子沒問題吧\n董事長沒問題齁是我們來努力好啦那個希望你盡量去努力啦也希望說這件事情能完成要不然會變成我們一個風山的遺憾希望這部分董事長可以加緊腳步按監督要求好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.724 --> 00:29.325\n大家好,我們請次長還有臺鐵請五次長還有多維董事長五言好五次長好那個10月16電價調整新制那聽說後面就是漲價的那個原則跟狀況\n\n00:32.114 --> 00:51.511\n其實民眾還是有意見那我想請教一下就是漲價要怎麼漲那有沒有分比較平民化的跟比較弱勢的那要怎麼樣去處理我想我跟那個委員報告這個票價調漲我想\n\n00:54.130 --> 01:14.750\n我們要必須考慮到整個運輸界的這樣一個整合、競合第二考慮到社會的經濟狀況還有對民眾影響的程度這幾個因素來進行考量那當然我們不希望說因為這樣的漲價帶頭對物價有所影響所以這個是目前台鐵我所知道台鐵目前正在\n\n01:15.450 --> 01:16.612\n這一個我們其實上一次已經有送過董事會一次\n\n01:35.894 --> 02:02.330\n但是董事會有退給這個經理單位因為裡面的資料還不夠齊備包括這些估算那另外還有就是委員剛剛有提到的就是對於社會以及弱勢的這個影響因為我們台鐵的輸運是短中長都有那我們上一次董事會呢退回來有一部分原因也是因為\n\n02:03.670 --> 02:06.251\n臺鐵的電價跟全世界各國比較的狀況,董事來這邊有沒有概念?\n\n02:24.418 --> 02:32.330\n其實可能大家都一直認為說台鐵其實它是真的算是用電的大戶啦因為車子開了全部要電力\n\n02:33.410 --> 02:56.758\n那我所知道他們做了很多節能的一個工作包括像新車、新校的引進那另外那個比如說在開設的時候要求那個事件能夠不要所謂的急死急停類似像這種情況那他以前年12年的4月到今年的3月這個期間來\n\n02:59.059 --> 03:25.490\n跟今年的4月到9月來比大概節省了9.1%我想它有很大的一個成效當然這中間也包括跟臺電的節電的小組跟他請教應該怎麼去節電我想這部分臺鐵會更深入針對這個節電的部分來做市長跟董事長我是要提一個建議你可能可以參考就是說第一個就是你比如說全世界的票價\n\n03:27.086 --> 03:46.613\n一樣是20公里那你們可以去做一個比較啊那看台鐵是不是有比日本有比韓國還貴還是比較便宜這個就是一個客觀的參考嘛那第二個就是說我今天就是像台電前一陣子調整電價的時候他叫做精準調漲\n\n03:48.459 --> 04:11.494\n我是覺得那個概念還不錯就是說你今天比較平民化的比較用電少的他是調著他幾乎是不調或是調得很小那當然用電大戶啦或者是就是真的是賺錢的你比如說企業還有中小企業跟那個大企業啊中小企業就是調比較少啊大企業調比較多\n\n04:13.178 --> 04:25.837\n這個是當然用電或因為有太多不同的方向那比如說我們的台鐵調漲你第一個比較全世界各國一樣的這個公里數大概做一個概念上的比較你就會發現台鐵是比較貴還是比較便宜\n\n04:28.698 --> 04:48.960\n那你要去說服人民說我要調漲票價的理由你就有個客觀的標準你就比較好參考所以這個是一個數目字我是覺得你們應該去了解一下那第二個就是說我今天在平快車或者是對號或者是\n\n04:50.103 --> 05:13.183\n至強舉光有什麼差別那我今天如果要做更好的可能調更多我今天如果要做最便宜的你就不要給我怎麼調或是調少一點類似這樣子的概念是不是在你們調整票價的時候可以去做思考不要讓人民其實我們先重視那個就是最弱勢的那一底層吧\n\n05:13.885 --> 05:26.003\n那就是弱勢的底層如果他對他影響很大他就比較會受不了嘛那你如果比較坦白講比如說是富豪之類的那個你給他調整他也沒什麼多大的感覺啦\n\n05:27.383 --> 05:52.468\n所以我是覺得就是說這兩個概念讓市長尤其是董事長思考一下要怎麼樣去調漲在現實的狀況跟世界各國做比較我勉強可以接受我們台鐵的調漲但是我調漲的時候有思考到弱勢要怎麼樣讓他不會影響太大我想這兩個概念是不是請台鐵可以思考一下好那另外就是說\n\n05:55.137 --> 06:14.384\n剛剛李昆澤立委提到的那個安全系統的問題事實上我們也一直在強調台鐵的安全那我在之前也聊過也跟質詢過就是我們的那個員工的福利啦那就是說你今天員工的福利跟安全這個部分你要怎麼樣去搭配\n\n06:15.856 --> 06:25.704\n你又要馬而肥,又要馬而不吃草我知道那個東部,上一次我們有一次說招募七個人,結果只有一個人來報名,結果錄取0人照理講,在內公務機關,國營7月,大家是趨之若鶩,台鐵是找不到人當然有的人會比較高鐵幣,現在屬性高鐵比較賺錢\n\n06:42.036 --> 07:01.269\n所以我們在轉型的過程當中怎麼樣去精準調整不要影響到太多的平民弱勢但是你可以在你的盈餘上或者是你其實多角化經營其實像有很多捷運在做那個商辦啊、都更啊當然不能像那個\n\n07:02.711 --> 07:22.356\n客批那樣子都更啦那個392變840那個比較誇張但是你是合理的合理的都更其實這個都是好的所以我是覺得就是說臺鐵可以再做一下思考那對員工的福利可以調漲的我知道現在那個現場檢察員跟盜班導師盜班師傅他們都有那個甲級證照喔就一個月而已三萬塊你找得到嗎\n\n07:29.600 --> 07:37.297\n這一定請不上人,因為你要求管,後禮拜他當然是,你譬如說比較特別的,你其實要去做\n\n07:38.550 --> 08:01.549\n做那個比較精準的就是去看看他的工作量跟他的技術、證照跟他的薪水的搭配這個部分也應該去做一下思考所以這個部分請那個我們台鐵公司也另外再特別的要求一下那最後還有一樣就是鳳山車站的BOT現在那個董事長有預計了嗎?\n\n08:04.709 --> 08:18.416\n我們還在努力中我們現在已經有開公告了依據11月底會結標我是建議董事長這件事希望你積極可以親自去\n\n08:19.797 --> 08:47.455\n監督跟協助一下有有有因為其實當時的設計坦白講我們重視的是外部的改變那時候改變很漂亮我們也要求的很久啊終於有一個很大的改變所以蓋好之後坦白講我還覺得滿感謝台鐵也很用心啊也做這一部分也做得不錯啦但是我後來才知道內部的設計吼內部的設計真的還是不符一般的商場的使用\n\n08:48.550 --> 09:08.035\n所以在內部的設計你們要做內部的怎麼樣的去改變或者是說讓人家覺得說一來會合啦雙門來撩錢沒人會來啦所以當然就是說我知道這個有時候我們在POT很辛苦在圖利跟合理的利潤跟撩錢\n\n09:10.585 --> 09:31.728\n這個中間要拿捏到什麼程度你才能夠找到好的BOT廠商來這邊做經營我希望說董事長這邊是不是可以親自的去把它監督要求不要說第二次再留標就很難看了是是我會來努力所以董事長第二次有沒有信心可以招標出去\n\n09:32.048 --> 09:59.422\n有,因為現在我們第一個齁我們這一次招標我們的招標的條件我們有做一些調整應該是吸引力會增加所以第二個我們也實際有去邀標啦訪商啦聽取他們的意見我想那個結果論啦齁那個第二次是11月底嘛對不對希望說董事長有信心能夠完成這件事這樣子沒問題吧\n\n10:02.389 --> 10:19.821\n董事長沒問題齁是我們來努力好啦那個希望你盡量去努力啦也希望說這件事情能完成要不然會變成我們一個風山的遺憾希望這部分董事長可以加緊腳步按監督要求好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.724,"end":29.325,"text":"大家好,我們請次長還有臺鐵請五次長還有多維董事長五言好五次長好那個10月16電價調整新制那聽說後面就是漲價的那個原則跟狀況"},{"start":32.114,"end":51.511,"text":"其實民眾還是有意見那我想請教一下就是漲價要怎麼漲那有沒有分比較平民化的跟比較弱勢的那要怎麼樣去處理我想我跟那個委員報告這個票價調漲我想"},{"start":54.13,"end":74.75,"text":"我們要必須考慮到整個運輸界的這樣一個整合、競合第二考慮到社會的經濟狀況還有對民眾影響的程度這幾個因素來進行考量那當然我們不希望說因為這樣的漲價帶頭對物價有所影響所以這個是目前台鐵我所知道台鐵目前正在"},{"start":75.45,"end":76.612,"text":"這一個我們其實上一次已經有送過董事會一次"},{"start":95.894,"end":122.33,"text":"但是董事會有退給這個經理單位因為裡面的資料還不夠齊備包括這些估算那另外還有就是委員剛剛有提到的就是對於社會以及弱勢的這個影響因為我們台鐵的輸運是短中長都有那我們上一次董事會呢退回來有一部分原因也是因為"},{"start":123.67,"end":126.251,"text":"臺鐵的電價跟全世界各國比較的狀況,董事來這邊有沒有概念?"},{"start":144.418,"end":152.33,"text":"其實可能大家都一直認為說台鐵其實它是真的算是用電的大戶啦因為車子開了全部要電力"},{"start":153.41,"end":176.758,"text":"那我所知道他們做了很多節能的一個工作包括像新車、新校的引進那另外那個比如說在開設的時候要求那個事件能夠不要所謂的急死急停類似像這種情況那他以前年12年的4月到今年的3月這個期間來"},{"start":179.059,"end":205.49,"text":"跟今年的4月到9月來比大概節省了9.1%我想它有很大的一個成效當然這中間也包括跟臺電的節電的小組跟他請教應該怎麼去節電我想這部分臺鐵會更深入針對這個節電的部分來做市長跟董事長我是要提一個建議你可能可以參考就是說第一個就是你比如說全世界的票價"},{"start":207.086,"end":226.613,"text":"一樣是20公里那你們可以去做一個比較啊那看台鐵是不是有比日本有比韓國還貴還是比較便宜這個就是一個客觀的參考嘛那第二個就是說我今天就是像台電前一陣子調整電價的時候他叫做精準調漲"},{"start":228.459,"end":251.494,"text":"我是覺得那個概念還不錯就是說你今天比較平民化的比較用電少的他是調著他幾乎是不調或是調得很小那當然用電大戶啦或者是就是真的是賺錢的你比如說企業還有中小企業跟那個大企業啊中小企業就是調比較少啊大企業調比較多"},{"start":253.178,"end":265.837,"text":"這個是當然用電或因為有太多不同的方向那比如說我們的台鐵調漲你第一個比較全世界各國一樣的這個公里數大概做一個概念上的比較你就會發現台鐵是比較貴還是比較便宜"},{"start":268.698,"end":288.96,"text":"那你要去說服人民說我要調漲票價的理由你就有個客觀的標準你就比較好參考所以這個是一個數目字我是覺得你們應該去了解一下那第二個就是說我今天在平快車或者是對號或者是"},{"start":290.103,"end":313.183,"text":"至強舉光有什麼差別那我今天如果要做更好的可能調更多我今天如果要做最便宜的你就不要給我怎麼調或是調少一點類似這樣子的概念是不是在你們調整票價的時候可以去做思考不要讓人民其實我們先重視那個就是最弱勢的那一底層吧"},{"start":313.885,"end":326.003,"text":"那就是弱勢的底層如果他對他影響很大他就比較會受不了嘛那你如果比較坦白講比如說是富豪之類的那個你給他調整他也沒什麼多大的感覺啦"},{"start":327.383,"end":352.468,"text":"所以我是覺得就是說這兩個概念讓市長尤其是董事長思考一下要怎麼樣去調漲在現實的狀況跟世界各國做比較我勉強可以接受我們台鐵的調漲但是我調漲的時候有思考到弱勢要怎麼樣讓他不會影響太大我想這兩個概念是不是請台鐵可以思考一下好那另外就是說"},{"start":355.137,"end":374.384,"text":"剛剛李昆澤立委提到的那個安全系統的問題事實上我們也一直在強調台鐵的安全那我在之前也聊過也跟質詢過就是我們的那個員工的福利啦那就是說你今天員工的福利跟安全這個部分你要怎麼樣去搭配"},{"start":375.856,"end":385.704,"text":"你又要馬而肥,又要馬而不吃草我知道那個東部,上一次我們有一次說招募七個人,結果只有一個人來報名,結果錄取0人照理講,在內公務機關,國營7月,大家是趨之若鶩,台鐵是找不到人當然有的人會比較高鐵幣,現在屬性高鐵比較賺錢"},{"start":402.036,"end":421.269,"text":"所以我們在轉型的過程當中怎麼樣去精準調整不要影響到太多的平民弱勢但是你可以在你的盈餘上或者是你其實多角化經營其實像有很多捷運在做那個商辦啊、都更啊當然不能像那個"},{"start":422.711,"end":442.356,"text":"客批那樣子都更啦那個392變840那個比較誇張但是你是合理的合理的都更其實這個都是好的所以我是覺得就是說臺鐵可以再做一下思考那對員工的福利可以調漲的我知道現在那個現場檢察員跟盜班導師盜班師傅他們都有那個甲級證照喔就一個月而已三萬塊你找得到嗎"},{"start":449.6,"end":457.297,"text":"這一定請不上人,因為你要求管,後禮拜他當然是,你譬如說比較特別的,你其實要去做"},{"start":458.55,"end":481.549,"text":"做那個比較精準的就是去看看他的工作量跟他的技術、證照跟他的薪水的搭配這個部分也應該去做一下思考所以這個部分請那個我們台鐵公司也另外再特別的要求一下那最後還有一樣就是鳳山車站的BOT現在那個董事長有預計了嗎?"},{"start":484.709,"end":498.416,"text":"我們還在努力中我們現在已經有開公告了依據11月底會結標我是建議董事長這件事希望你積極可以親自去"},{"start":499.797,"end":527.455,"text":"監督跟協助一下有有有因為其實當時的設計坦白講我們重視的是外部的改變那時候改變很漂亮我們也要求的很久啊終於有一個很大的改變所以蓋好之後坦白講我還覺得滿感謝台鐵也很用心啊也做這一部分也做得不錯啦但是我後來才知道內部的設計吼內部的設計真的還是不符一般的商場的使用"},{"start":528.55,"end":548.035,"text":"所以在內部的設計你們要做內部的怎麼樣的去改變或者是說讓人家覺得說一來會合啦雙門來撩錢沒人會來啦所以當然就是說我知道這個有時候我們在POT很辛苦在圖利跟合理的利潤跟撩錢"},{"start":550.585,"end":571.728,"text":"這個中間要拿捏到什麼程度你才能夠找到好的BOT廠商來這邊做經營我希望說董事長這邊是不是可以親自的去把它監督要求不要說第二次再留標就很難看了是是我會來努力所以董事長第二次有沒有信心可以招標出去"},{"start":572.048,"end":599.422,"text":"有,因為現在我們第一個齁我們這一次招標我們的招標的條件我們有做一些調整應該是吸引力會增加所以第二個我們也實際有去邀標啦訪商啦聽取他們的意見我想那個結果論啦齁那個第二次是11月底嘛對不對希望說董事長有信心能夠完成這件事這樣子沒問題吧"},{"start":602.389,"end":619.821,"text":"董事長沒問題齁是我們來努力好啦那個希望你盡量去努力啦也希望說這件事情能完成要不然會變成我們一個風山的遺憾希望這部分董事長可以加緊腳步按監督要求好謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":5,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-5","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:33:37 - 09:44:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就「臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155404,"gazette":{"lineno":144,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（9時33分）主席，大家好。請次長還有臺鐵董事長。"],["主席：請伍次長還有杜微董事長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：次長好。10月16日電價調漲新制，聽說漲價的原則跟狀況其實民眾還是有意見，我想請教一下漲價要怎麼漲，有沒有分比較平民化的跟比較弱勢的要怎麼樣去處理？"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，票價調漲，我想我們必須考慮到整個運輸界的整合、競合；第二個要考慮到社會的經濟狀況，還有對民眾影響的程度，由以上這幾個因素來進行考量，當然我們不希望因為這樣的漲價帶頭對物價有所影響，以我所知道，目前臺鐵正在謹慎地做評估，它評估完之後，會經過它的董事會，然後再報到部裡面來，比較細節的部分，我是不是請董事長做一個簡單的回應？"],["杜董事長微：是，跟委員報告，關於票價的合理化，其實我們上一次已經有送過一次董事會，但是董事會退給了經理單位，因為裡面的資料還不夠齊備，包括一些估算。另外還有委員剛剛提到的，對於社會以及弱勢的影響，因為臺鐵的輸運是短、中、長都有，上一次董事會退回來，有一部分原因也是覺得規劃沒有全面性，所以我們現在還在努力調整。"],["許委員智傑：針對臺鐵的電價跟全世界各國比較的狀況，董事長有沒有概念？"],["伍次長勝園：電價的部分我這樣講，其實大家可能都一直認為臺鐵真的算是用電大戶，因為車子開了全部都要電力，我知道他們做了很多節能的工作，包括新車、新效能的引進，以及要求司機員在開車的時候不要急駛急停等類似情況。以112年4月到今年3月這個期間來跟今年4月到9月來比，大概節省了9.1%，我想他們有很大的成效，當然這中間也包括跟台電節電小組請教應該怎麼節電，我想臺鐵會更深入針對節電的部分來做……"],["許委員智傑：OK，次長跟董事長，我要提一個建議，你們可以參考。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["許委員智傑：第一個，比如說全世界的票價，一樣是20公里，那你們可以去做一個比較，看臺鐵是不是有比日本、韓國還貴？還是比較便宜？這就是一個客觀的參考嘛！"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["許委員智傑：第二個就是，像台電前一陣子調整電價時，它叫做精準調漲，我覺得那個概念還不錯，就是針對比較平民化、用電比較少的幾乎不調，或是調得很小，用電大戶，或者真的是賺錢的，比如說企業還有中小企業跟大企業相比，中小企業就調比較少，大企業調比較多；當然，對於用電戶有太多不同的方向。","比如說臺鐵調漲，你們第一個要比較全世界各國一樣的公里數，做概念上的比較，就可以發現臺鐵是比較貴還是比較便宜。你們要說服人民調漲票價的理由就有一個客觀的標準，這樣比較好參考。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["許委員智傑：所以這是一個數目字，我覺得你們應該去瞭解一下。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["許委員智傑：第二個，在平快車、對號，或者是自強、莒光有什麼差別，今天如果要坐更好的可能調更多，如果要坐最便宜的就不怎麼調，或是調少一點，類似這樣的概念是不是在你們調整票價時可以去做思考？不要讓人民……其實我們先重視最弱勢的底層，如果對他們影響很大，他們比較會受不了；坦白講比如說是富豪之類的，你們調整了，他們也沒多大的感覺。所以我覺得這兩個概念讓次長，尤其是董事長思考一下，看要怎麼樣調漲，在現實的狀況跟世界各國做比較，我勉強可以接受臺鐵的調漲，調漲的時候有思考到弱勢，要怎麼樣讓他們不會影響太大，這兩個概念是不是可以請臺鐵可以思考一下？","另外，剛剛李昆澤立委提到安全系統的問題，事實上我們也一直在強調臺鐵的安全，我之前也質詢過員工的福利，就是員工福利跟安全要怎麼樣搭配，你們又要馬兒肥又要馬兒不吃草。我知道上一次東部有招募7個人，只有1個人來報名，結果錄取0人；照理講，在類公務機關、國營企業，每個人是趨之若鶩，結果臺鐵卻找不到人，當然有的人會跟高鐵比，事實上現在高鐵比較賺錢。","在轉型的過程當中，怎麼樣去精準調漲，不要影響太多的平民、弱勢，但你們可以在盈餘上，或者是你們多角化經營。其實像很多捷運在做商辦、都更，當然不能像柯P那樣子都更，392變840就比較誇張，但你們是合理的都更，其實這都是好的，所以我覺得臺鐵可以再思考，對員工的福利可以調漲。我知道現在現場檢查員、師傅都有甲級證照，1個月領三萬多，你們怎麼找得到人？這一定找不到人的，因為你們要求高、福利差，當然就會如此。對於比較特別的工作，你們其實要做比較精準的分析，看看他們的工作量跟技術證照及薪水的搭配，這部分也應該去思考，請臺鐵公司再特別要求一下。"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["許委員智傑：最後還有一樣就是鳳山車站的BOT，現在董事長有預計了嗎？"],["杜董事長微：我們還在努力中，現在已經有開公告了。"],["許委員智傑：公告？"],["杜董事長微：預計11月底會結標。"],["許委員智傑：我是建議董事長，這件事希望你可以親自積極地去監督跟協助一下。"],["杜董事長微：有、有、有。"],["許委員智傑：因為其實坦白講，當時設計重視的是外部改變，那時候改變得很漂亮，我們也要求了很久，終於有了很大的改變，所以蓋好之後我還滿感謝臺鐵很用心，這部分也做得不錯，但我後來才知道內部設計真的還是不符一般商場使用，所以你們在內部設計要做怎麼樣的改變，或者是讓人家覺得來會划算，對於商人，賠錢沒有人會來啦，所以當然這個就是說……我知道有時候BOT很辛苦，在圖利跟合理利潤及賠錢的中間要拿捏到什麼程度才能夠找到好的BOT廠商來這邊經營，我希望董事長是不是可以親自去監督、要求，第二次不要再流標，這樣會很難看喔！"],["杜董事長微：是，我會努力。"],["許委員智傑：所以董事長第二次有沒有信心可以招標出去？"],["杜董事長微：有，第一個，因為我們這次招標的條件有做一些調整，吸引力應該會增加。"],["許委員智傑：所以……"],["杜董事長微：第二個，我們也實際有去邀標、訪商，聽取他們的意見。"],["許委員智傑：我想這是結果論啦，第二次是11月底，對不對？希望董事長有信心能夠完成這件事，這樣子沒問題吧？董事長，沒問題喔？"],["杜董事長微：是，我們來努力。"],["許委員智傑：好啦，希望你們儘量努力，也希望這件事情能完成，要不然會變成我們鳳山的一個遺憾，希望董事長可以加緊腳步、監督要求，謝謝。"],["伍次長勝園：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑委員。","接下來邀請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-5","speakers":["陳素月","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖偉翔","徐富癸","何欣純","蔡其昌","廖先翔","黃建賓","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","陳冠廷","翁曉玲","黃國昌","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","游顥","邱若華","劉建國","林沛祥","葉元之"],"page_start":31,"meetingDate":["2024-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股\n份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就「臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00002"}}}