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\"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"坤\", \"start\": 386.012, \"end\": 386.112, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 386.112, \"end\": 386.152, \"score\": 0.476}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 386.152, \"end\": 386.172, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,613 --> 00:00:05,616\n謝謝主席我們請彭部長請彭部長李委員好部長好辛苦了這個預計2026年要開增碳費\n\n2\n00:00:16,482 --> 00:00:16,502\n對沒錯\n\n3\n00:00:41,482 --> 00:00:46,764\n根據臺灣永續能源研究基金會的資料顯示臺灣的醫療照護碳足跡佔全國比例高於全球平均4.6%全世界平均4.4%臺灣醫院用電量在非生產事業性試驗是排名第一\n\n4\n00:01:05,391 --> 00:01:21,461\n暫比是16.9%比這個車站跟軌道的運輸的這個合計13.54%還要高那所以呢總統他才會相當的關心這個醫療院所這個減碳的一些事情那也曾經打電話給部長然後講這件事情\n\n5\n00:01:24,443 --> 00:01:49,655\n那從打電話到現在一個多月了想請教一下部長關於醫療院所檢探的這方面的事情有做了哪一些的改變有哪一些行政措施報告委員謝謝讓我還原真相其實是7月底的時候我們跟衛福部合辦了一個活動那非常好就綠色醫療這是台灣第一次環境部跟衛福部合辦一個活動然後總統看到新聞之後其實總統跟院長都有打電話給我說這個活動不錯\n\n6\n00:01:52,216 --> 00:02:19,175\n但是後面的這個給醫院的資金在哪裡所以其實也謝謝總統跟院長關心這個事情讓我們有一個動力所以其實第一個是國發基金所以他們我們就協調了這個國發基金是不是有一個100億能夠來做這種幫助這種能減碳的工作的投資那第二個呢就是我們找了金管會找這個保險基金能夠來合作因為這個EXCO其實要蠻多錢的過去我們政府都是用補助的形式從馬政府時代就是用補助可是這個補助的量\n\n7\n00:02:19,755 --> 00:02:20,055\n目前的確是有成果\n\n8\n00:02:47,620 --> 00:03:06,037\n那所以總統跟院長關心之後就去想辦法說那個錢從哪裡來要怎麼樣去協助我們醫院來做這個減碳是不是對沒錯沒錯這就是你剛剛回答大概就是我想要問你的三個問題就是第一個環境部會採取哪一些措施跟衛福部合作協助醫院減碳那我們有投入多少資源跟經費呢\n\n9\n00:03:06,878 --> 00:03:07,078\n李坤城議員\n\n10\n00:03:22,291 --> 00:03:42,897\n這個有沒有規劃將碳費的部分收入協助醫院執行1月10日的改革目前其實因為衛福部的預算是我們的好幾十倍所以這其實這個部分你說哪一方面的預算是你的好幾十倍整體預算所以基本上這個邱部長跟我說碳費有沒有辦法給他其實我是說碳費我們現在才目前規劃才60億恐怕有點困難\n\n11\n00:03:43,797 --> 00:04:02,304\n但是他的預算這麼多也不是說都拿來做這一個減碳的或是ESG的改革嘛所以你當初這樣回答的話那邱部長當然覺得說那你這個給我們一些資源投入這個協助醫院來改善這個ESG他的用意應該是這樣子啦不是在比較說兩個部會的這個預算誰多誰寡我們現在在講說是\n\n12\n00:04:06,225 --> 00:04:08,969\n其實如果我用保險的資金來幫忙的話其實不用花到醫院的錢這是一個比較市場化的一個做法\n\n13\n00:04:25,509 --> 00:04:48,328\n那就是第三個那有跟金管會討論過了嗎?有,討論過了我們跟主委還有他們保險公司我們都密集的在開會但是我也跟委員坦承還是遇到一些小問題需要政府的擔保等等我們正在處理這個細節那金管會的態度勒?金管會是樂觀其成那他有沒有協助你找一些保險業者過來談?有那個彭主委非常的這個認真熱心幫我們處理這個事情\n\n14\n00:04:49,949 --> 00:05:03,142\n那我是希望說當然希望藉由民間的資金來做這個深度節能就是你剛才講的ESCO這部分因為民間資金投進來那其實政府也不用付這麼多的錢進去有一些是保險業他們先帶電然後節能之後這個錢我們再還回去沒錯\n\n15\n00:05:07,106 --> 00:05:35,950\n那現在我看大家也很關心那個CBAN的問題那我就直接先問了這個你有提到說這個產品在我國繳交的碳費確認已經可以支付這個CBAN的碳價了那請問一下有這個官方的書面文字嗎還是只有口頭他們書面文字有包含了碳費、碳稅都可以只要ETS都可以這有確定嗎確定確定那我們不覺得這個書面不完整我當面的問了非常高層的官員獲得非常肯定的答案\n\n16\n00:05:37,010 --> 00:05:55,604\n這就確認了,因為就是你那口頭問是一部分,我是說有這個書面的,確定就是說我們徵收了這個碳費,也可以支付這個西邊的這個碳稅就對了。對,其實第一個是說這個未來這個是碳定價外交的一環,我們台灣會主動要納進去,所以我也派駐有人人在歐盟。\n\n17\n00:05:56,024 --> 00:05:56,364\n這個就是說齁\n\n18\n00:06:25,872 --> 00:06:26,172\n李坤城委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3613\t5616\t謝謝主席 我們請彭部長請彭部長李委員好部長好 辛苦了這個預計2026年要開增碳費\n16482\t16502\t對 沒錯\n41482\t46764\t根據臺灣永續能源研究基金會的資料顯示臺灣的醫療照護碳足跡佔全國比例高於全球平均4.6%全世界平均4.4%臺灣醫院用電量在非生產事業性試驗是排名第一\n65391\t81461\t暫比是16.9% 比這個車站跟軌道的運輸的這個合計13.54%還要高那所以呢 總統他才會相當的關心這個醫療院所這個減碳的一些事情那也曾經打電話給部長 然後講這件事情\n84443\t109655\t那從打電話到現在一個多月了想請教一下部長關於醫療院所檢探的這方面的事情有做了哪一些的改變有哪一些行政措施報告委員謝謝讓我還原真相其實是7月底的時候我們跟衛福部合辦了一個活動那非常好就綠色醫療這是台灣第一次環境部跟衛福部合辦一個活動然後總統看到新聞之後其實總統跟院長都有打電話給我說這個活動不錯\n112216\t139175\t但是後面的這個給醫院的資金在哪裡所以其實也謝謝總統跟院長關心這個事情讓我們有一個動力所以其實第一個是國發基金所以他們我們就協調了這個國發基金是不是有一個100億能夠來做這種幫助這種能減碳的工作的投資那第二個呢就是我們找了金管會找這個保險基金能夠來合作因為這個EXCO其實要蠻多錢的過去我們政府都是用補助的形式從馬政府時代就是用補助可是這個補助的量\n139755\t140055\t目前的確是有成果\n167620\t186037\t那所以總統跟院長關心之後就去想辦法說那個錢從哪裡來要怎麼樣去協助我們醫院來做這個減碳是不是對沒錯沒錯這就是你剛剛回答大概就是我想要問你的三個問題就是第一個環境部會採取哪一些措施跟衛福部合作協助醫院減碳那我們有投入多少資源跟經費呢\n186878\t187078\t李坤城議員\n202291\t222897\t這個有沒有規劃將碳費的部分收入協助醫院執行1月10日的改革目前其實因為衛福部的預算是我們的好幾十倍所以這其實這個部分你說哪一方面的預算是你的好幾十倍整體預算所以基本上這個邱部長跟我說碳費有沒有辦法給他其實我是說碳費我們現在才目前規劃才60億恐怕有點困難\n223797\t242304\t但是他的預算這麼多也不是說都拿來做這一個減碳的或是ESG的改革嘛所以你當初這樣回答的話那邱部長當然覺得說那你這個給我們一些資源投入這個協助醫院來改善這個ESG他的用意應該是這樣子啦不是在比較說兩個部會的這個預算誰多誰寡我們現在在講說是\n246225\t248969\t其實如果我用保險的資金來幫忙的話其實不用花到醫院的錢這是一個比較市場化的一個做法\n265509\t288328\t那就是第三個那有跟金管會討論過了嗎?有,討論過了我們跟主委還有他們保險公司我們都密集的在開會但是我也跟委員坦承還是遇到一些小問題需要政府的擔保等等我們正在處理這個細節那金管會的態度勒?金管會是樂觀其成那他有沒有協助你找一些保險業者過來談?有那個彭主委非常的這個認真熱心幫我們處理這個事情\n289949\t303142\t那我是希望說當然希望藉由民間的資金來做這個深度節能就是你剛才講的ESCO這部分因為民間資金投進來那其實政府也不用付這麼多的錢進去有一些是保險業他們先帶電然後節能之後這個錢我們再還回去沒錯\n307106\t335950\t那現在我看大家也很關心那個CBAN的問題那我就直接先問了這個你有提到說這個產品在我國繳交的碳費確認已經可以支付這個CBAN的碳價了那請問一下有這個官方的書面文字嗎還是只有口頭他們書面文字有包含了碳費、碳稅都可以只要ETS都可以這有確定嗎確定確定那我們不覺得這個書面不完整我當面的問了非常高層的官員獲得非常肯定的答案\n337010\t355604\t這就確認了,因為就是你那口頭問是一部分,我是說有這個書面的,確定就是說我們徵收了這個碳費,也可以支付這個西邊的這個碳稅就對了。對,其實第一個是說這個未來這個是碳定價外交的一環,我們台灣會主動要納進去,所以我也派駐有人人在歐盟。\n356024\t356364\t這個就是說齁\n385872\t386172\t李坤城委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請彭部長請彭部長李委員好部長好 辛苦了這個預計2026年要開增碳費\n對 沒錯\n根據臺灣永續能源研究基金會的資料顯示臺灣的醫療照護碳足跡佔全國比例高於全球平均4.6%全世界平均4.4%臺灣醫院用電量在非生產事業性試驗是排名第一\n暫比是16.9% 比這個車站跟軌道的運輸的這個合計13.54%還要高那所以呢 總統他才會相當的關心這個醫療院所這個減碳的一些事情那也曾經打電話給部長 然後講這件事情\n那從打電話到現在一個多月了想請教一下部長關於醫療院所檢探的這方面的事情有做了哪一些的改變有哪一些行政措施報告委員謝謝讓我還原真相其實是7月底的時候我們跟衛福部合辦了一個活動那非常好就綠色醫療這是台灣第一次環境部跟衛福部合辦一個活動然後總統看到新聞之後其實總統跟院長都有打電話給我說這個活動不錯\n但是後面的這個給醫院的資金在哪裡所以其實也謝謝總統跟院長關心這個事情讓我們有一個動力所以其實第一個是國發基金所以他們我們就協調了這個國發基金是不是有一個100億能夠來做這種幫助這種能減碳的工作的投資那第二個呢就是我們找了金管會找這個保險基金能夠來合作因為這個EXCO其實要蠻多錢的過去我們政府都是用補助的形式從馬政府時代就是用補助可是這個補助的量\n目前的確是有成果\n那所以總統跟院長關心之後就去想辦法說那個錢從哪裡來要怎麼樣去協助我們醫院來做這個減碳是不是對沒錯沒錯這就是你剛剛回答大概就是我想要問你的三個問題就是第一個環境部會採取哪一些措施跟衛福部合作協助醫院減碳那我們有投入多少資源跟經費呢\n李坤城議員\n這個有沒有規劃將碳費的部分收入協助醫院執行1月10日的改革目前其實因為衛福部的預算是我們的好幾十倍所以這其實這個部分你說哪一方面的預算是你的好幾十倍整體預算所以基本上這個邱部長跟我說碳費有沒有辦法給他其實我是說碳費我們現在才目前規劃才60億恐怕有點困難\n但是他的預算這麼多也不是說都拿來做這一個減碳的或是ESG的改革嘛所以你當初這樣回答的話那邱部長當然覺得說那你這個給我們一些資源投入這個協助醫院來改善這個ESG他的用意應該是這樣子啦不是在比較說兩個部會的這個預算誰多誰寡我們現在在講說是\n其實如果我用保險的資金來幫忙的話其實不用花到醫院的錢這是一個比較市場化的一個做法\n那就是第三個那有跟金管會討論過了嗎?有,討論過了我們跟主委還有他們保險公司我們都密集的在開會但是我也跟委員坦承還是遇到一些小問題需要政府的擔保等等我們正在處理這個細節那金管會的態度勒?金管會是樂觀其成那他有沒有協助你找一些保險業者過來談?有那個彭主委非常的這個認真熱心幫我們處理這個事情\n那我是希望說當然希望藉由民間的資金來做這個深度節能就是你剛才講的ESCO這部分因為民間資金投進來那其實政府也不用付這麼多的錢進去有一些是保險業他們先帶電然後節能之後這個錢我們再還回去沒錯\n那現在我看大家也很關心那個CBAN的問題那我就直接先問了這個你有提到說這個產品在我國繳交的碳費確認已經可以支付這個CBAN的碳價了那請問一下有這個官方的書面文字嗎還是只有口頭他們書面文字有包含了碳費、碳稅都可以只要ETS都可以這有確定嗎確定確定那我們不覺得這個書面不完整我當面的問了非常高層的官員獲得非常肯定的答案\n這就確認了,因為就是你那口頭問是一部分,我是說有這個書面的,確定就是說我們徵收了這個碳費,也可以支付這個西邊的這個碳稅就對了。對,其實第一個是說這個未來這個是碳定價外交的一環,我們台灣會主動要納進去,所以我也派駐有人人在歐盟。\n這個就是說齁\n李坤城委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.613 --> 00:05.616\n謝謝主席我們請彭部長請彭部長李委員好部長好辛苦了這個預計2026年要開增碳費\n\n00:16.482 --> 00:16.502\n對沒錯\n\n00:41.482 --> 00:46.764\n根據臺灣永續能源研究基金會的資料顯示臺灣的醫療照護碳足跡佔全國比例高於全球平均4.6%全世界平均4.4%臺灣醫院用電量在非生產事業性試驗是排名第一\n\n01:05.391 --> 01:21.461\n暫比是16.9%比這個車站跟軌道的運輸的這個合計13.54%還要高那所以呢總統他才會相當的關心這個醫療院所這個減碳的一些事情那也曾經打電話給部長然後講這件事情\n\n01:24.443 --> 01:49.655\n那從打電話到現在一個多月了想請教一下部長關於醫療院所檢探的這方面的事情有做了哪一些的改變有哪一些行政措施報告委員謝謝讓我還原真相其實是7月底的時候我們跟衛福部合辦了一個活動那非常好就綠色醫療這是台灣第一次環境部跟衛福部合辦一個活動然後總統看到新聞之後其實總統跟院長都有打電話給我說這個活動不錯\n\n01:52.216 --> 02:19.175\n但是後面的這個給醫院的資金在哪裡所以其實也謝謝總統跟院長關心這個事情讓我們有一個動力所以其實第一個是國發基金所以他們我們就協調了這個國發基金是不是有一個100億能夠來做這種幫助這種能減碳的工作的投資那第二個呢就是我們找了金管會找這個保險基金能夠來合作因為這個EXCO其實要蠻多錢的過去我們政府都是用補助的形式從馬政府時代就是用補助可是這個補助的量\n\n02:19.755 --> 02:20.055\n目前的確是有成果\n\n02:47.620 --> 03:06.037\n那所以總統跟院長關心之後就去想辦法說那個錢從哪裡來要怎麼樣去協助我們醫院來做這個減碳是不是對沒錯沒錯這就是你剛剛回答大概就是我想要問你的三個問題就是第一個環境部會採取哪一些措施跟衛福部合作協助醫院減碳那我們有投入多少資源跟經費呢\n\n03:06.878 --> 03:07.078\n李坤城議員\n\n03:22.291 --> 03:42.897\n這個有沒有規劃將碳費的部分收入協助醫院執行1月10日的改革目前其實因為衛福部的預算是我們的好幾十倍所以這其實這個部分你說哪一方面的預算是你的好幾十倍整體預算所以基本上這個邱部長跟我說碳費有沒有辦法給他其實我是說碳費我們現在才目前規劃才60億恐怕有點困難\n\n03:43.797 --> 04:02.304\n但是他的預算這麼多也不是說都拿來做這一個減碳的或是ESG的改革嘛所以你當初這樣回答的話那邱部長當然覺得說那你這個給我們一些資源投入這個協助醫院來改善這個ESG他的用意應該是這樣子啦不是在比較說兩個部會的這個預算誰多誰寡我們現在在講說是\n\n04:06.225 --> 04:08.969\n其實如果我用保險的資金來幫忙的話其實不用花到醫院的錢這是一個比較市場化的一個做法\n\n04:25.509 --> 04:48.328\n那就是第三個那有跟金管會討論過了嗎?有,討論過了我們跟主委還有他們保險公司我們都密集的在開會但是我也跟委員坦承還是遇到一些小問題需要政府的擔保等等我們正在處理這個細節那金管會的態度勒?金管會是樂觀其成那他有沒有協助你找一些保險業者過來談?有那個彭主委非常的這個認真熱心幫我們處理這個事情\n\n04:49.949 --> 05:03.142\n那我是希望說當然希望藉由民間的資金來做這個深度節能就是你剛才講的ESCO這部分因為民間資金投進來那其實政府也不用付這麼多的錢進去有一些是保險業他們先帶電然後節能之後這個錢我們再還回去沒錯\n\n05:07.106 --> 05:35.950\n那現在我看大家也很關心那個CBAN的問題那我就直接先問了這個你有提到說這個產品在我國繳交的碳費確認已經可以支付這個CBAN的碳價了那請問一下有這個官方的書面文字嗎還是只有口頭他們書面文字有包含了碳費、碳稅都可以只要ETS都可以這有確定嗎確定確定那我們不覺得這個書面不完整我當面的問了非常高層的官員獲得非常肯定的答案\n\n05:37.010 --> 05:55.604\n這就確認了,因為就是你那口頭問是一部分,我是說有這個書面的,確定就是說我們徵收了這個碳費,也可以支付這個西邊的這個碳稅就對了。對,其實第一個是說這個未來這個是碳定價外交的一環,我們台灣會主動要納進去,所以我也派駐有人人在歐盟。\n\n05:56.024 --> 05:56.364\n這個就是說齁\n\n06:25.872 --> 06:26.172\n李坤城委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.613,"end":5.616,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請彭部長請彭部長李委員好部長好 辛苦了這個預計2026年要開增碳費"},{"start":16.482,"end":16.502,"text":"對 沒錯"},{"start":41.482,"end":46.764,"text":"根據臺灣永續能源研究基金會的資料顯示臺灣的醫療照護碳足跡佔全國比例高於全球平均4.6%全世界平均4.4%臺灣醫院用電量在非生產事業性試驗是排名第一"},{"start":65.391,"end":81.461,"text":"暫比是16.9% 比這個車站跟軌道的運輸的這個合計13.54%還要高那所以呢 總統他才會相當的關心這個醫療院所這個減碳的一些事情那也曾經打電話給部長 然後講這件事情"},{"start":84.443,"end":109.655,"text":"那從打電話到現在一個多月了想請教一下部長關於醫療院所檢探的這方面的事情有做了哪一些的改變有哪一些行政措施報告委員謝謝讓我還原真相其實是7月底的時候我們跟衛福部合辦了一個活動那非常好就綠色醫療這是台灣第一次環境部跟衛福部合辦一個活動然後總統看到新聞之後其實總統跟院長都有打電話給我說這個活動不錯"},{"start":112.216,"end":139.175,"text":"但是後面的這個給醫院的資金在哪裡所以其實也謝謝總統跟院長關心這個事情讓我們有一個動力所以其實第一個是國發基金所以他們我們就協調了這個國發基金是不是有一個100億能夠來做這種幫助這種能減碳的工作的投資那第二個呢就是我們找了金管會找這個保險基金能夠來合作因為這個EXCO其實要蠻多錢的過去我們政府都是用補助的形式從馬政府時代就是用補助可是這個補助的量"},{"start":139.755,"end":140.055,"text":"目前的確是有成果"},{"start":167.62,"end":186.037,"text":"那所以總統跟院長關心之後就去想辦法說那個錢從哪裡來要怎麼樣去協助我們醫院來做這個減碳是不是對沒錯沒錯這就是你剛剛回答大概就是我想要問你的三個問題就是第一個環境部會採取哪一些措施跟衛福部合作協助醫院減碳那我們有投入多少資源跟經費呢"},{"start":186.878,"end":187.078,"text":"李坤城議員"},{"start":202.291,"end":222.897,"text":"這個有沒有規劃將碳費的部分收入協助醫院執行1月10日的改革目前其實因為衛福部的預算是我們的好幾十倍所以這其實這個部分你說哪一方面的預算是你的好幾十倍整體預算所以基本上這個邱部長跟我說碳費有沒有辦法給他其實我是說碳費我們現在才目前規劃才60億恐怕有點困難"},{"start":223.797,"end":242.304,"text":"但是他的預算這麼多也不是說都拿來做這一個減碳的或是ESG的改革嘛所以你當初這樣回答的話那邱部長當然覺得說那你這個給我們一些資源投入這個協助醫院來改善這個ESG他的用意應該是這樣子啦不是在比較說兩個部會的這個預算誰多誰寡我們現在在講說是"},{"start":246.225,"end":248.969,"text":"其實如果我用保險的資金來幫忙的話其實不用花到醫院的錢這是一個比較市場化的一個做法"},{"start":265.509,"end":288.328,"text":"那就是第三個那有跟金管會討論過了嗎?有,討論過了我們跟主委還有他們保險公司我們都密集的在開會但是我也跟委員坦承還是遇到一些小問題需要政府的擔保等等我們正在處理這個細節那金管會的態度勒?金管會是樂觀其成那他有沒有協助你找一些保險業者過來談?有那個彭主委非常的這個認真熱心幫我們處理這個事情"},{"start":289.949,"end":303.142,"text":"那我是希望說當然希望藉由民間的資金來做這個深度節能就是你剛才講的ESCO這部分因為民間資金投進來那其實政府也不用付這麼多的錢進去有一些是保險業他們先帶電然後節能之後這個錢我們再還回去沒錯"},{"start":307.106,"end":335.95,"text":"那現在我看大家也很關心那個CBAN的問題那我就直接先問了這個你有提到說這個產品在我國繳交的碳費確認已經可以支付這個CBAN的碳價了那請問一下有這個官方的書面文字嗎還是只有口頭他們書面文字有包含了碳費、碳稅都可以只要ETS都可以這有確定嗎確定確定那我們不覺得這個書面不完整我當面的問了非常高層的官員獲得非常肯定的答案"},{"start":337.01,"end":355.604,"text":"這就確認了,因為就是你那口頭問是一部分,我是說有這個書面的,確定就是說我們徵收了這個碳費,也可以支付這個西邊的這個碳稅就對了。對,其實第一個是說這個未來這個是碳定價外交的一環,我們台灣會主動要納進去,所以我也派駐有人人在歐盟。"},{"start":356.024,"end":356.364,"text":"這個就是說齁"},{"start":385.872,"end":386.172,"text":"李坤城委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-3","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:31:45 - 11:38:39","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部就「台灣的碳費收費標準決議」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155428,"gazette":{"lineno":780,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時31分）謝謝主席，我們請彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好，辛苦了。預計2026年要開徵碳費，碳費徵收對象大概就是年排放量2.5萬公噸二氧化碳當量，徵收對象大概超過500廠，約1.55億噸碳排，占全國總排放量的54%，這是剛開始要徵收的對象跟總排放量。徵收的對象剛開始並沒有包含醫療院所，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對，沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：好，那就來請教一下部長，根據臺灣永續能源研究基金會的資料顯示，臺灣的醫療照護碳足跡占全國比例高於全球平均，是4.6%，全世界是4.4%。臺灣醫院用電量在非生產事業性事業是排名第一，占比是16.9%，比車站跟軌道等運輸合計的13.54%還要高。所以總統才會相當關心醫療院所減碳的一些事情，也曾經打電話給部長講這件事情。從打電話到現在一個多月了，想請教一下部長，關於醫療院所減碳這方面的事情有做了哪一些的改變？有哪些行政措施？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，謝謝讓我還原真相。其實是7月底的時候我們跟衛福部合辦一個活動，非常好，就是綠色醫療，這是臺灣第一次環境部跟衛福部合辦活動，總統看到新聞之後，其實總統跟院長都有打電話給我說這個活動不錯，但是後面給醫院的資金在哪裡？所以也謝謝總統跟院長關心這個事情，讓我們有一個動力。第一個是國發基金，所以我們就協調了國發基金，是不是有一個100億能夠來幫助這種節能減碳工作的投資？第二個就是我們找了金管會，找了保險基金，能夠來合作，因為ESCO其實要滿多錢的，過去我們政府都是用補助的形式，從馬政府時代就是用補助，可是這個補助的量，可能過去沒有辦法很快達成我們減碳的目標。所以我們目前的確跟經濟部合組一個深度節能的團隊，預計大概再一、兩個月應該會公布一些細則，但我們現在還是遇到一些小問題，例如說，保險公司的錢長期投資醫院ESCO，是不是可以保障它可以穩定持續20年？所以這個部分我們還在協調。目前的成果應該在近期就會公布，而目前的確是有成果。"],["李委員坤城：好，所以總統跟院長關心之後，就去想辦法知道錢要從哪裡來，要怎麼樣去協助醫院來做減碳是不是？"],["彭部長啓明：對，沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：你剛剛回答的大概就是我想要問你的三個問題，第一個，環境部會採取哪些措施跟衛福部合作，協助醫院減碳？我們有投入多少資源跟經費呢？還是都沒有，就是完全靠你剛剛講的國發基金100億，但那也還沒有確定……"],["彭部長啓明：有，現在正在申請當中。"],["李委員坤城：國發會有同意了嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：口頭上同意。"],["李委員坤城：口頭上同意？那就恭喜你！第二個是有沒有規劃將碳費的部分收入協助醫院執行ESG的改革？"],["彭部長啓明：因為衛福部的預算是我們的好幾十倍，所以這個部分……"],["李委員坤城：你說哪一方面的預算是你們的好幾十倍？"],["彭部長啓明：整體預算。所以邱部長跟我說碳費有沒有辦法給他，我是說我們的碳費目前才規劃60億，恐怕有點困難！"],["李委員坤城：但是它的預算這麼多，也不是都拿來做減碳或是ESG的改革。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["李委員坤城：所以你當初這樣回答，邱部長當然覺得給他們一些資源投入協助醫院改善ESG，他的用意應該是這樣子啦！"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["李委員坤城：不是在比較兩個部會的預算誰多誰寡。"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：我們現在講的是投入減碳的費用到底有多少，當然因為環境部是負責這一方面，但還是沒有規劃收到碳費之後要協助醫院做ESG的改革？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，如果用保險的資金來幫忙的話，其實不用花到醫院的錢，這是一個比較市場化的作法。"],["李委員坤城：好，那就是第三個。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["李委員坤城：那有跟金管會討論過了嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：有，討論過了。"],["李委員坤城：給予誘因。"],["彭部長啓明：我們跟主委和保險公司都密集地在開會，但是我也跟委員坦承還是遇到一些小問題，需要政府的擔保等等，我們正在處理相關細節。"],["李委員坤城：好，金管會的態度呢？"],["彭部長啓明：金管會是樂觀其成。"],["李委員坤城：他們有沒有協助你找一些保險業者過來談？"],["彭部長啓明：有，彭主委非常認真也熱心地幫我們處理這個事情。"],["李委員坤城：好，我希望藉由民間的資金來做深度節能，就是你剛才講的ESCO這部分，因為民間資金投進來，政府也不用付這麼多錢進去，另外有一些是保險業先代墊，然後節能之後，這個錢我們再還回去。"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：剛才我看大家也很關心CBAM的問題，我就直接先問，你有提到產品在我國繳交的碳費確認已經可以支付CBAM的碳價，請問一下有官方的書面文字嗎？還是只有口頭？"],["彭部長啓明：他們的書面文字有包含碳費、碳稅都可以，只要ETS都可以。"],["李委員坤城：這有確定嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：確定、確定，我們覺得這個書面不完整，於是我當面問了非常高層的官員，獲得非常肯定的答案。"],["李委員坤城：所以就是有確認。你口頭問是一部分，但我是問有這個書面確定我們徵收了碳費也可以支付抵CBAM的碳稅就對了？"],["彭部長啓明：對，第一個，未來這是碳定價外交的一環，我們臺灣會主動要納進去，所以我們也有派人駐在歐盟。第二個是它的細節大概明年年中才會出來。"],["李委員坤城：好，大家也很關心臺版的CBAM。"],["彭部長啓明：關於臺版的CBAM，第一個，這個制度要設計，我們希望等到歐盟明確化之後有一個國際的準則，因為現在只有歐盟有在提這個事情，細節還沒出來，英國是2027年上路，我們希望是先申報，讓進口業者有一點壓力，他們自己必須要去減碳，有碳足跡的資料進來，我們要保障我們國內的產業。"],["李委員坤城：好，這個就是有來有往，人家有做，我們當然也要做，保護臺灣的產業。最後一個問題請教，歐盟的碳稅徵收對象是進口商，臺灣的碳費徵收對象是國內業者，未來臺灣的碳費徵收會不會涵蓋進口的貨品？"],["彭部長啓明：主要還是隨我們碳費徵收對象所對應的進口商，進口業者就要收。"],["李委員坤城：所以會收就對了？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["李委員坤城：好。謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員。我在這邊說明，希望等一下質詢的委員時間可以稍微控制一下，因為今天登記發言真的非常踴躍，後面還有很多委員要發言。","接下來請高金素梅委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-3","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","涂權吉","陳菁徽","柯志恩","李坤城","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","王鴻薇","牛煦庭","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","廖先翔","羅智強","張智倫","林淑芬","洪孟楷","楊曜","黃健豪","賴惠員","陳瑩","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部就「台灣的碳費收費標準決議」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00001"}}}