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\"以\", \"start\": 319.293, \"end\": 319.313, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 320.234, \"end\": 320.374, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 320.374, \"end\": 320.554, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 320.554, \"end\": 320.755, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"梅\", \"start\": 320.755, \"end\": 320.775, \"score\": 0.002}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,050 --> 00:00:01,931\n高金素梅委員\n\n2\n00:00:14,977 --> 00:00:36,266\n好,氣候變遷因應法在立法院通過了之後,環境部裡面也制定了碳費徵收的費率,碳費要從115年開始正式的開徵了。那針對氣候變遷因應法裡面涉及原住民的條文內容,部長你清楚這有哪些條文嗎?針對這些條文,環境部在政策上做了哪些因應,知道嗎?\n\n3\n00:00:37,066 --> 00:01:01,716\n知道,其實第一個是要幫原住民共同推動自然碳會,裡面有一個第5條、第3項、第8款有說。好,我們就針對第5條、第3項、第8款提了什麼?再速唸一遍好不好?OK,為推動自然碳會,政府要跟原住民民族共同推動跟管理原住民地區的自然碳會,該區域的新增碳會及相關權益應與原住民族共享。\n\n4\n00:01:03,361 --> 00:01:21,815\n政府應該與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區內的自然碳匯該區域內新增的碳匯的相關權益應該要跟原住民族共享涉及原住民族土地的開發、利用或限制應與當地的原住民族諮商並取得同意\n\n5\n00:01:26,678 --> 00:01:48,358\n所以105年,你知道嗎?立法院制定禁法補償條例的時候,我們就通過了一個附帶決議。這個附帶決議,聽好,若需要提高禁法補償金額的時候,需由開徵碳稅來支應。部長,您知道這個附帶決議嗎?你當然不知道,你還不知道。那環境部以前的這個相關的公務人員知道嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:51,079 --> 00:02:17,517\n我們請我們署長回答好,署長你知道嗎?105年不清楚好,你看,你們都不清楚不清楚難怪我們的行政院長他會跟原住民的族人說進法補償是找不到裁員啊我想這就是執政團隊你們根本不知道早在10年前本席就已經在立法院針對原住民進法補償的部分討論我們就在討論碳費的議題了現在知道了吧部長\n\n7\n00:02:18,517 --> 00:02:45,822\n報告委員,那個時候應該概念是碳稅,我們現在看貝皮好了,就是已經跟你講過了嘛,如果金髮補償的金額要提高的話,必須要由開徵碳稅之印嘛那你現在碳稅裡面已經有基金了嗎?對吧?112年通過了氣候變遷因應法,環境部裡面也按照第32條設立了溫室氣體管理基金,然後請問一下基金施政的用途包括哪些呢?\n\n8\n00:02:47,562 --> 00:02:52,014\n呃就前委員提的這6項好123456對不對有沒有原住民的部分\n\n9\n00:02:53,530 --> 00:03:19,353\n沒有,當我們的碳費定價之後在115年開始正式開尊了我們看一下原住民有為政府守護7萬公頃碳匯的原住民經法補償的私有林地同時也有原民匯11萬公頃的公有林地加起來總共18萬公頃的原住民保留地對於台灣的碳排放這個是非常好的\n\n10\n00:03:19,993 --> 00:03:47,904\n他是屬於溫室氣體管理基金施政重點的哪一項?你知道嗎?好,你不知道所以我現在要告訴你涉及原住民族的碳會更包含了森林碳還有位於原住民傳統海域的燃炭我了解的是碳會的來源是由農業部主責但是部長你更必須清楚了解不管是原住民的私有領地或者是我們的傳統海域\n\n11\n00:03:49,325 --> 00:04:04,935\n農業部主管的國有林還有海域還有很多目的事業主管機關要推動的政策他必須回歸到氣候變遷因應法來一起推動而不是你自己環境部啊林業署他在推動國產財\n\n12\n00:04:07,136 --> 00:04:27,567\n我們的竹林更新還有竹產業你知道這些政策嗎?你不知道你可能也不知道森林會根據不同的樹種有不同的碳吸存能力吧你知道竹林是屬於短年生的同時你知道竹林它的碳吸存能力是非常強的所以在產業面也都需要國產材跟竹材\n\n13\n00:04:33,990 --> 00:04:50,983\n環境部你作為氣候變遷因應主管的機關,你在淨零碳排的政策上面,難道不應該在政策上面作為統合嗎?部長。報告委員這個是農業部在主責,他也提出發法協議。我知道啦,你是主責,那你不應該和鄉聯繫這些嗎?所以,\n\n14\n00:04:54,605 --> 00:05:19,313\n契簽法第33條基金的用途根本就沒有用在禁法補償上面嘛所以我在這裡要要求你經營談判還有碳會的更像政策請環境部你要承擔起這個責任你在一個月之內要競速邀請人民會、農業部、相關部會提出將碳會最大化的執行政策可不可以\n\n15\n00:05:20,234 --> 00:05:20,775\n謝謝高金素梅\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1050\t1931\t高金素梅委員\n14977\t36266\t好,氣候變遷因應法在立法院通過了之後,環境部裡面也制定了碳費徵收的費率,碳費要從115年開始正式的開徵了。那針對氣候變遷因應法裡面涉及原住民的條文內容,部長你清楚這有哪些條文嗎?針對這些條文,環境部在政策上做了哪些因應,知道嗎?\n37066\t61716\t知道,其實第一個是要幫原住民共同推動自然碳會,裡面有一個第5條、第3項、第8款有說。好,我們就針對第5條、第3項、第8款提了什麼?再速唸一遍好不好?OK,為推動自然碳會,政府要跟原住民民族共同推動跟管理原住民地區的自然碳會,該區域的新增碳會及相關權益應與原住民族共享。\n63361\t81815\t政府應該與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區內的自然碳匯該區域內新增的碳匯的相關權益應該要跟原住民族共享涉及原住民族土地的開發、利用或限制應與當地的原住民族諮商並取得同意\n86678\t108358\t所以105年,你知道嗎?立法院制定禁法補償條例的時候,我們就通過了一個附帶決議。這個附帶決議,聽好,若需要提高禁法補償金額的時候,需由開徵碳稅來支應。部長,您知道這個附帶決議嗎?你當然不知道,你還不知道。那環境部以前的這個相關的公務人員知道嗎?\n111079\t137517\t我們請我們署長回答好,署長你知道嗎?105年不清楚好,你看,你們都不清楚不清楚難怪我們的行政院長他會跟原住民的族人說進法補償是找不到裁員啊我想這就是執政團隊你們根本不知道早在10年前本席就已經在立法院針對原住民進法補償的部分討論我們就在討論碳費的議題了現在知道了吧部長\n138517\t165822\t報告委員,那個時候應該概念是碳稅,我們現在看貝皮好了,就是已經跟你講過了嘛,如果金髮補償的金額要提高的話,必須要由開徵碳稅之印嘛那你現在碳稅裡面已經有基金了嗎?對吧?112年通過了氣候變遷因應法,環境部裡面也按照第32條設立了溫室氣體管理基金,然後請問一下基金施政的用途包括哪些呢?\n167562\t172014\t呃就前委員提的這6項好123456對不對有沒有原住民的部分\n173530\t199353\t沒有,當我們的碳費定價之後在115年開始正式開尊了我們看一下原住民有為政府守護7萬公頃碳匯的原住民經法補償的私有林地同時也有原民匯11萬公頃的公有林地加起來總共18萬公頃的原住民保留地對於台灣的碳排放這個是非常好的\n199993\t227904\t他是屬於溫室氣體管理基金施政重點的哪一項?你知道嗎?好,你不知道所以我現在要告訴你涉及原住民族的碳會更包含了森林碳還有位於原住民傳統海域的燃炭我了解的是碳會的來源是由農業部主責但是部長你更必須清楚了解不管是原住民的私有領地或者是我們的傳統海域\n229325\t244935\t農業部主管的國有林還有海域還有很多目的事業主管機關要推動的政策他必須回歸到氣候變遷因應法來一起推動而不是你自己環境部啊林業署他在推動國產財\n247136\t267567\t我們的竹林更新還有竹產業你知道這些政策嗎?你不知道你可能也不知道森林會根據不同的樹種有不同的碳吸存能力吧你知道竹林是屬於短年生的同時你知道竹林它的碳吸存能力是非常強的所以在產業面也都需要國產材跟竹材\n273990\t290983\t環境部你作為氣候變遷因應主管的機關,你在淨零碳排的政策上面,難道不應該在政策上面作為統合嗎?部長。報告委員這個是農業部在主責,他也提出發法協議。我知道啦,你是主責,那你不應該和鄉聯繫這些嗎?所以,\n294605\t319313\t契簽法第33條基金的用途根本就沒有用在禁法補償上面嘛所以我在這裡要要求你經營談判還有碳會的更像政策請環境部你要承擔起這個責任你在一個月之內要競速邀請人民會、農業部、相關部會提出將碳會最大化的執行政策可不可以\n320234\t320775\t謝謝高金素梅\n","txt":"高金素梅委員\n好,氣候變遷因應法在立法院通過了之後,環境部裡面也制定了碳費徵收的費率,碳費要從115年開始正式的開徵了。那針對氣候變遷因應法裡面涉及原住民的條文內容,部長你清楚這有哪些條文嗎?針對這些條文,環境部在政策上做了哪些因應,知道嗎?\n知道,其實第一個是要幫原住民共同推動自然碳會,裡面有一個第5條、第3項、第8款有說。好,我們就針對第5條、第3項、第8款提了什麼?再速唸一遍好不好?OK,為推動自然碳會,政府要跟原住民民族共同推動跟管理原住民地區的自然碳會,該區域的新增碳會及相關權益應與原住民族共享。\n政府應該與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區內的自然碳匯該區域內新增的碳匯的相關權益應該要跟原住民族共享涉及原住民族土地的開發、利用或限制應與當地的原住民族諮商並取得同意\n所以105年,你知道嗎?立法院制定禁法補償條例的時候,我們就通過了一個附帶決議。這個附帶決議,聽好,若需要提高禁法補償金額的時候,需由開徵碳稅來支應。部長,您知道這個附帶決議嗎?你當然不知道,你還不知道。那環境部以前的這個相關的公務人員知道嗎?\n我們請我們署長回答好,署長你知道嗎?105年不清楚好,你看,你們都不清楚不清楚難怪我們的行政院長他會跟原住民的族人說進法補償是找不到裁員啊我想這就是執政團隊你們根本不知道早在10年前本席就已經在立法院針對原住民進法補償的部分討論我們就在討論碳費的議題了現在知道了吧部長\n報告委員,那個時候應該概念是碳稅,我們現在看貝皮好了,就是已經跟你講過了嘛,如果金髮補償的金額要提高的話,必須要由開徵碳稅之印嘛那你現在碳稅裡面已經有基金了嗎?對吧?112年通過了氣候變遷因應法,環境部裡面也按照第32條設立了溫室氣體管理基金,然後請問一下基金施政的用途包括哪些呢?\n呃就前委員提的這6項好123456對不對有沒有原住民的部分\n沒有,當我們的碳費定價之後在115年開始正式開尊了我們看一下原住民有為政府守護7萬公頃碳匯的原住民經法補償的私有林地同時也有原民匯11萬公頃的公有林地加起來總共18萬公頃的原住民保留地對於台灣的碳排放這個是非常好的\n他是屬於溫室氣體管理基金施政重點的哪一項?你知道嗎?好,你不知道所以我現在要告訴你涉及原住民族的碳會更包含了森林碳還有位於原住民傳統海域的燃炭我了解的是碳會的來源是由農業部主責但是部長你更必須清楚了解不管是原住民的私有領地或者是我們的傳統海域\n農業部主管的國有林還有海域還有很多目的事業主管機關要推動的政策他必須回歸到氣候變遷因應法來一起推動而不是你自己環境部啊林業署他在推動國產財\n我們的竹林更新還有竹產業你知道這些政策嗎?你不知道你可能也不知道森林會根據不同的樹種有不同的碳吸存能力吧你知道竹林是屬於短年生的同時你知道竹林它的碳吸存能力是非常強的所以在產業面也都需要國產材跟竹材\n環境部你作為氣候變遷因應主管的機關,你在淨零碳排的政策上面,難道不應該在政策上面作為統合嗎?部長。報告委員這個是農業部在主責,他也提出發法協議。我知道啦,你是主責,那你不應該和鄉聯繫這些嗎?所以,\n契簽法第33條基金的用途根本就沒有用在禁法補償上面嘛所以我在這裡要要求你經營談判還有碳會的更像政策請環境部你要承擔起這個責任你在一個月之內要競速邀請人民會、農業部、相關部會提出將碳會最大化的執行政策可不可以\n謝謝高金素梅\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.050 --> 00:01.931\n高金素梅委員\n\n00:14.977 --> 00:36.266\n好,氣候變遷因應法在立法院通過了之後,環境部裡面也制定了碳費徵收的費率,碳費要從115年開始正式的開徵了。那針對氣候變遷因應法裡面涉及原住民的條文內容,部長你清楚這有哪些條文嗎?針對這些條文,環境部在政策上做了哪些因應,知道嗎?\n\n00:37.066 --> 01:01.716\n知道,其實第一個是要幫原住民共同推動自然碳會,裡面有一個第5條、第3項、第8款有說。好,我們就針對第5條、第3項、第8款提了什麼?再速唸一遍好不好?OK,為推動自然碳會,政府要跟原住民民族共同推動跟管理原住民地區的自然碳會,該區域的新增碳會及相關權益應與原住民族共享。\n\n01:03.361 --> 01:21.815\n政府應該與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區內的自然碳匯該區域內新增的碳匯的相關權益應該要跟原住民族共享涉及原住民族土地的開發、利用或限制應與當地的原住民族諮商並取得同意\n\n01:26.678 --> 01:48.358\n所以105年,你知道嗎?立法院制定禁法補償條例的時候,我們就通過了一個附帶決議。這個附帶決議,聽好,若需要提高禁法補償金額的時候,需由開徵碳稅來支應。部長,您知道這個附帶決議嗎?你當然不知道,你還不知道。那環境部以前的這個相關的公務人員知道嗎?\n\n01:51.079 --> 02:17.517\n我們請我們署長回答好,署長你知道嗎?105年不清楚好,你看,你們都不清楚不清楚難怪我們的行政院長他會跟原住民的族人說進法補償是找不到裁員啊我想這就是執政團隊你們根本不知道早在10年前本席就已經在立法院針對原住民進法補償的部分討論我們就在討論碳費的議題了現在知道了吧部長\n\n02:18.517 --> 02:45.822\n報告委員,那個時候應該概念是碳稅,我們現在看貝皮好了,就是已經跟你講過了嘛,如果金髮補償的金額要提高的話,必須要由開徵碳稅之印嘛那你現在碳稅裡面已經有基金了嗎?對吧?112年通過了氣候變遷因應法,環境部裡面也按照第32條設立了溫室氣體管理基金,然後請問一下基金施政的用途包括哪些呢?\n\n02:47.562 --> 02:52.014\n呃就前委員提的這6項好123456對不對有沒有原住民的部分\n\n02:53.530 --> 03:19.353\n沒有,當我們的碳費定價之後在115年開始正式開尊了我們看一下原住民有為政府守護7萬公頃碳匯的原住民經法補償的私有林地同時也有原民匯11萬公頃的公有林地加起來總共18萬公頃的原住民保留地對於台灣的碳排放這個是非常好的\n\n03:19.993 --> 03:47.904\n他是屬於溫室氣體管理基金施政重點的哪一項?你知道嗎?好,你不知道所以我現在要告訴你涉及原住民族的碳會更包含了森林碳還有位於原住民傳統海域的燃炭我了解的是碳會的來源是由農業部主責但是部長你更必須清楚了解不管是原住民的私有領地或者是我們的傳統海域\n\n03:49.325 --> 04:04.935\n農業部主管的國有林還有海域還有很多目的事業主管機關要推動的政策他必須回歸到氣候變遷因應法來一起推動而不是你自己環境部啊林業署他在推動國產財\n\n04:07.136 --> 04:27.567\n我們的竹林更新還有竹產業你知道這些政策嗎?你不知道你可能也不知道森林會根據不同的樹種有不同的碳吸存能力吧你知道竹林是屬於短年生的同時你知道竹林它的碳吸存能力是非常強的所以在產業面也都需要國產材跟竹材\n\n04:33.990 --> 04:50.983\n環境部你作為氣候變遷因應主管的機關,你在淨零碳排的政策上面,難道不應該在政策上面作為統合嗎?部長。報告委員這個是農業部在主責,他也提出發法協議。我知道啦,你是主責,那你不應該和鄉聯繫這些嗎?所以,\n\n04:54.605 --> 05:19.313\n契簽法第33條基金的用途根本就沒有用在禁法補償上面嘛所以我在這裡要要求你經營談判還有碳會的更像政策請環境部你要承擔起這個責任你在一個月之內要競速邀請人民會、農業部、相關部會提出將碳會最大化的執行政策可不可以\n\n05:20.234 --> 05:20.775\n謝謝高金素梅\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.05,"end":1.931,"text":"高金素梅委員"},{"start":14.977,"end":36.266,"text":"好,氣候變遷因應法在立法院通過了之後,環境部裡面也制定了碳費徵收的費率,碳費要從115年開始正式的開徵了。那針對氣候變遷因應法裡面涉及原住民的條文內容,部長你清楚這有哪些條文嗎?針對這些條文,環境部在政策上做了哪些因應,知道嗎?"},{"start":37.066,"end":61.716,"text":"知道,其實第一個是要幫原住民共同推動自然碳會,裡面有一個第5條、第3項、第8款有說。好,我們就針對第5條、第3項、第8款提了什麼?再速唸一遍好不好?OK,為推動自然碳會,政府要跟原住民民族共同推動跟管理原住民地區的自然碳會,該區域的新增碳會及相關權益應與原住民族共享。"},{"start":63.361,"end":81.815,"text":"政府應該與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區內的自然碳匯該區域內新增的碳匯的相關權益應該要跟原住民族共享涉及原住民族土地的開發、利用或限制應與當地的原住民族諮商並取得同意"},{"start":86.678,"end":108.358,"text":"所以105年,你知道嗎?立法院制定禁法補償條例的時候,我們就通過了一個附帶決議。這個附帶決議,聽好,若需要提高禁法補償金額的時候,需由開徵碳稅來支應。部長,您知道這個附帶決議嗎?你當然不知道,你還不知道。那環境部以前的這個相關的公務人員知道嗎?"},{"start":111.079,"end":137.517,"text":"我們請我們署長回答好,署長你知道嗎?105年不清楚好,你看,你們都不清楚不清楚難怪我們的行政院長他會跟原住民的族人說進法補償是找不到裁員啊我想這就是執政團隊你們根本不知道早在10年前本席就已經在立法院針對原住民進法補償的部分討論我們就在討論碳費的議題了現在知道了吧部長"},{"start":138.517,"end":165.822,"text":"報告委員,那個時候應該概念是碳稅,我們現在看貝皮好了,就是已經跟你講過了嘛,如果金髮補償的金額要提高的話,必須要由開徵碳稅之印嘛那你現在碳稅裡面已經有基金了嗎?對吧?112年通過了氣候變遷因應法,環境部裡面也按照第32條設立了溫室氣體管理基金,然後請問一下基金施政的用途包括哪些呢?"},{"start":167.562,"end":172.014,"text":"呃就前委員提的這6項好123456對不對有沒有原住民的部分"},{"start":173.53,"end":199.353,"text":"沒有,當我們的碳費定價之後在115年開始正式開尊了我們看一下原住民有為政府守護7萬公頃碳匯的原住民經法補償的私有林地同時也有原民匯11萬公頃的公有林地加起來總共18萬公頃的原住民保留地對於台灣的碳排放這個是非常好的"},{"start":199.993,"end":227.904,"text":"他是屬於溫室氣體管理基金施政重點的哪一項?你知道嗎?好,你不知道所以我現在要告訴你涉及原住民族的碳會更包含了森林碳還有位於原住民傳統海域的燃炭我了解的是碳會的來源是由農業部主責但是部長你更必須清楚了解不管是原住民的私有領地或者是我們的傳統海域"},{"start":229.325,"end":244.935,"text":"農業部主管的國有林還有海域還有很多目的事業主管機關要推動的政策他必須回歸到氣候變遷因應法來一起推動而不是你自己環境部啊林業署他在推動國產財"},{"start":247.136,"end":267.567,"text":"我們的竹林更新還有竹產業你知道這些政策嗎?你不知道你可能也不知道森林會根據不同的樹種有不同的碳吸存能力吧你知道竹林是屬於短年生的同時你知道竹林它的碳吸存能力是非常強的所以在產業面也都需要國產材跟竹材"},{"start":273.99,"end":290.983,"text":"環境部你作為氣候變遷因應主管的機關,你在淨零碳排的政策上面,難道不應該在政策上面作為統合嗎?部長。報告委員這個是農業部在主責,他也提出發法協議。我知道啦,你是主責,那你不應該和鄉聯繫這些嗎?所以,"},{"start":294.605,"end":319.313,"text":"契簽法第33條基金的用途根本就沒有用在禁法補償上面嘛所以我在這裡要要求你經營談判還有碳會的更像政策請環境部你要承擔起這個責任你在一個月之內要競速邀請人民會、農業部、相關部會提出將碳會最大化的執行政策可不可以"},{"start":320.234,"end":320.775,"text":"謝謝高金素梅"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-3","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:38:50 - 11:44:21","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部就「台灣的碳費收費標準決議」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155430,"gazette":{"lineno":833,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（11時38分）謝謝主席。今天的發言只有5分鐘，我們請部長，所以你回應的時候儘量快一點，好不好？"],["主席：請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：氣候變遷因應法在立法院通過了之後，環境部也制定了碳費徵收費率，碳費要從115年開始正式開徵，針對氣候變遷因應法涉及原住民的條文內容，部長，你清楚有哪些條文嗎？針對這些條文，環境部在政策上做了哪些因應，你知道嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：知道。第一個是要幫原住民共同推動自然碳匯，裡面第五條第三項第八款有說。"],["高金委員素梅：好，我們就針對第五條第三項第八款提了什麼？你快速念一遍好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：OK。為推動自然碳匯，政府應與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區內之自然碳匯，該區域內新增碳匯之相關權益應與原住民族共享。"],["高金委員素梅：還有，政府應該與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區內的自然碳匯，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["高金委員素梅：該區域內新增碳匯的相關權益，應該要跟原住民族共享啊！"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["高金委員素梅：涉及原住民族土地的開發、利用或限制，應與當地的原住民族諮商並取得同意。這裡面用的法律用語都是「應」這個字。105年立法院制定禁伐補償條例的時候，我們就通過了一個附帶決議，這個附帶決議聽好，若需要提高禁伐補償金額的時候，需由開徵碳稅來支應。部長，您知道這個附帶決議嗎？你當然不知道，那時你還未到。"],["彭部長啓明：我當然不知道。"],["高金委員素梅：環境部以前的相關公務人員知道嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我請我們署長回答。"],["高金委員素梅：好，署長，你知道嗎──105年？"],["蔡署長玲儀：不清楚。"],["高金委員素梅：好，你看，你們都不清楚，難怪行政院長會跟原住民的族人說，禁伐補償找不到財源。我想執政團隊根本不知道早在10年前，本席就已經在立法院針對原住民禁伐補償討論碳費的議題了，現在知道了吧，部長？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，那個時候的概念應該是碳稅啦！那我們現在是碳費，不一樣。"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！就是已經跟你講過了嘛！如果禁伐補償的金額要提高的話，必須要由開徵碳稅支應，那你現在碳稅裡面已經有基金了，對吧？112年通過了氣候變遷因應法，環境部你們有按照第三十二條設立了溫室氣體管理基金，請問基金施政的用途包括哪些呢？"],["彭部長啓明：就委員提的這6項。"],["高金委員素梅：好，一、二、三、四、五、六，對不對？有沒有原住民的部分？沒有！當碳費定價之後，在115年開始正式開徵了，我們看一下，原住民有為政府守護7萬公頃碳匯的原住民禁伐補償的私有林地，同時也有原民會11萬公頃的公有林地，加起來總共18萬公頃的原住民保留地，對於臺灣的碳排放是非常好的，它是屬於溫室氣體管理基金施政重點的哪一項，你知道嗎？好，你不知道，所以我現在告訴你。涉及原住民族的碳匯，更包含了森林碳，還有位於原住民傳統海域的藍碳。我了解的是碳匯的來源是由農業部主責，但是部長你更必須清楚了解，不管是原住民的私有林地或者是我們的傳統海域，農業部主管的國有林還有海域，還有很多目的事業主管機關要推動的政策，它必須回歸到氣候變遷因應法來一起推動，而不是你自己環境部啊！林業署在推動國產材，我們的竹林更新，還有竹產業，你知道這些政策嗎？你不知道。你可能也不知道森林會根據不同的樹種有不同的碳吸存能力吧？"],["彭部長啓明：知道。"],["高金委員素梅：你知道？既然知道，竹林是屬於短年生的，同時你知道竹林的碳吸存能力是非常強的，所以在產業面也都需要國產材跟竹材。環境部作為氣候變遷因應主管的機關，在淨零碳排的政策上面，難道不應該在政策上面作為統合嗎？部長。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個是農業部在主責，它也提出方法學。"],["高金委員素梅：我知道啦！你是主責，那你不應該橫向聯繫這些嗎？所以氣遷法第三十三條基金的用途，根本就沒有用在禁伐補償上面嘛！所以我在這裡要要求你淨零碳排，還有碳匯的更上位政策，請環境部你要承擔起這個責任！你在一個月之內，要儘速邀請原民會、農業部相關部會提出將碳匯最大化的執行政策，可不可以？"],["彭部長啓明：好，委員，這個沒有問題，我們會來協調，謝謝。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝你，一個月之內好嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["高金委員素梅：也把你們開會最後的文字告訴本席，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝高金素梅委員的發言。","那我在這邊再做一個重新宣告，等一下在賴士葆委員發言完畢之後，處理臨時提案。接下來請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-3","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","涂權吉","陳菁徽","柯志恩","李坤城","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","王鴻薇","牛煦庭","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","廖先翔","羅智強","張智倫","林淑芬","洪孟楷","楊曜","黃健豪","賴惠員","陳瑩","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部就「台灣的碳費收費標準決議」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00001"}}}