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00:01:45,006\n鐵路的一個專業來講怎麼樣去解決這是一個我們等一下要去探討的部分我們先談這個國家鐵路安全計畫當然我們當初這個鐵路警交通部在測定的時候普悠瑪號什麼太魯閣號這些問題所以希望旅客臨時\n\n5\n00:01:53,573 --> 00:02:15,848\n為安全政策的一個方針所以這個部分到底從這個開始執行到現在有沒有達成旅客臨死亡目前從111年來講旅客臨死亡的部分現在是有達成好我們繼續來努力我們現在接下來還是\n\n6\n00:02:18,314 --> 00:02:34,159\n相關的這些你們都會去因應這個我就不多談了因為時間的關係我們看這個剛才講的北回鐵路從德到何人當然公路的部分是一件事情這個抒發安要趕快\n\n7\n00:02:37,998 --> 00:03:05,408\n蘇和安要趕快這個就在蘇和安的範圍那鐵路的部分氣候變遷加上那個相關的這些地震的影響颱風的影響造成這樣的一個情形所以就這個次長包括鐵道局\n\n8\n00:03:07,076 --> 00:03:34,176\n不能把這個責任全部放在台鐵我看這個報告今天的報告基本上都台鐵的鐵道局成立要兼負鐵道局的責任所以這個部分怎麼樣既然有多了一個鐵道局過去沒有啊北匯鐵路時代南匯鐵路時代沒有啊所以怎麼樣去\n\n9\n00:03:36,449 --> 00:04:01,204\n強化去因應我看你們的那個報告裡面這都不是一個當然這都是現階段要做的啦現階段要做的怎麼樣去做一個長期的這裡面有提到長期的方案一定要推出來\n\n10\n00:04:02,844 --> 00:04:12,840\n這個部分絕對是要交通部、鐵道局共同的跟台鐵公司共同去推動所以這個部分這個\n\n11\n00:04:14,286 --> 00:04:33,504\n次長你要不要說明一下是謝謝謝謝委員的一個提醒我想剛講的鐵道局的部分其實他也目前扮演這個很重要的角色譬如說他最近應該算是前年就引進所謂的檢察院的部分檢察院的部分以後他針對台鐵到現場\n\n12\n00:04:37,062 --> 00:04:56,219\n更頻密增加深度增加的一個情況去檢查他到底一些程序有沒有落實已經檢查很多次了那有發現一些問題那些問題一樣是把他列管來做我想這個只是在這我們之前的報告沒有把他顯示出來而已其實他們也做了蠻多事情的\n\n13\n00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:19,290\n那至於剛講從何人從的中間這個問題從上次零四零三之前大概都沒什麼問題但是從那一次以後大地震以後包括後面剛提到一百多次的遺症造成整個土壤都已經鬆動所以只要一下雨就會下來那剛提到我們大概擬定幾個方案第一個當然就是短期現在麻將要做的\n\n14\n00:05:19,650 --> 00:05:22,512\n臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份\n\n15\n00:05:39,723 --> 00:06:06,964\n臺鐵算是最下游上一部分也有問題然後我們這邊就可以及早知道那另外利用這個氣象署的QPESPlus這個部分來進行雨量的可能會對氣候的問題來做一個預測我想這部分這個都是我們要去做的那另外還有提到所謂的長期的部分和平到衝突這我們現在目前在進行改憲的一個評估因為確實那邊\n\n16\n00:06:09,466 --> 00:06:25,784\n因為既有的隧道已經有那中間又有幾個像那個和人站那些如果說改線就會牽涉到這和人站到底要怎麼處理的問題我想這部分我們大概預計在年底或一個初步的評估的報告出來\n\n17\n00:06:26,325 --> 00:06:50,461\n那如果後面我想順利後我們後面就開始要做進行可行性的這個規劃一直往下希望能得到一個算是比較長久的一個改善的一個方案一定要徹底提出長期就如同北回鐵路我剛剛講的民國69年到今年\n\n18\n00:06:52,557 --> 00:06:52,717\n謝謝鄭天財委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11784\t13946\t主席、各位委員有請次長、還有鐵道局局長、還有董事長、還有杜威董事長\n28942\t55414\t市長好委員好你是鐵路工程的專業不敢我們回想北回鐵路民國69年開通到現在就是今年因為04、03的大地震當天都還OK從民國69年一直到\n56530\t84905\t零四零三大地震檢視之後都沒有問題是因為後面的颱風加上大概幾百次了幾百次的移震才造成現在的北迴鐵路河仁道崇德這一段所以這個部分就\n85940\t105006\t鐵路的一個專業來講怎麼樣去解決這是一個我們等一下要去探討的部分我們先談這個國家鐵路安全計畫當然我們當初這個鐵路警交通部在測定的時候普悠瑪號什麼太魯閣號這些問題所以希望旅客臨時\n113573\t135848\t為安全政策的一個方針所以這個部分到底從這個開始執行到現在有沒有達成旅客臨死亡目前從111年來講旅客臨死亡的部分現在是有達成好我們繼續來努力我們現在接下來還是\n138314\t154159\t相關的這些你們都會去因應這個我就不多談了因為時間的關係我們看這個剛才講的北回鐵路從德到何人當然公路的部分是一件事情這個抒發安要趕快\n157998\t185408\t蘇和安要趕快這個就在蘇和安的範圍那鐵路的部分氣候變遷加上那個相關的這些地震的影響颱風的影響造成這樣的一個情形所以就這個次長包括鐵道局\n187076\t214176\t不能把這個責任全部放在台鐵我看這個報告今天的報告基本上都台鐵的鐵道局成立要兼負鐵道局的責任所以這個部分怎麼樣既然有多了一個鐵道局過去沒有啊北匯鐵路時代南匯鐵路時代沒有啊所以怎麼樣去\n216449\t241204\t強化去因應我看你們的那個報告裡面這都不是一個當然這都是現階段要做的啦現階段要做的怎麼樣去做一個長期的這裡面有提到長期的方案一定要推出來\n242844\t252840\t這個部分絕對是要交通部、鐵道局共同的跟台鐵公司共同去推動所以這個部分這個\n254286\t273504\t次長你要不要說明一下是 謝謝謝謝委員的一個提醒我想剛講的鐵道局的部分其實他也目前扮演這個很重要的角色譬如說他最近應該算是前年就引進所謂的檢察院的部分檢察院的部分以後他針對台鐵到現場\n277062\t296219\t更頻密增加深度增加的一個情況去檢查他到底一些程序有沒有落實已經檢查很多次了那有發現一些問題那些問題一樣是把他列管來做我想這個只是在這我們之前的報告沒有把他顯示出來而已其實他們也做了蠻多事情的\n296920\t319290\t那至於剛講從何人從的中間這個問題從上次零四零三之前大概都沒什麼問題但是從那一次以後大地震以後包括後面剛提到一百多次的遺症造成整個土壤都已經鬆動所以只要一下雨就會下來那剛提到我們大概擬定幾個方案第一個當然就是短期現在麻將要做的\n319650\t322512\t臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份\n339723\t366964\t臺鐵算是最下游上一部分也有問題然後我們這邊就可以及早知道那另外利用這個氣象署的QPES Plus這個部分來進行雨量的可能會對氣候的問題來做一個預測我想這部分這個都是我們要去做的那另外還有提到所謂的長期的部分和平到衝突這我們現在目前在進行改憲的一個評估因為確實那邊\n369466\t385784\t因為既有的隧道已經有那中間又有幾個像那個和人站那些如果說改線就會牽涉到這和人站到底要怎麼處理的問題我想這部分我們大概預計在年底或一個初步的評估的報告出來\n386325\t410461\t那如果後面我想順利後我們後面就開始要做進行可行性的這個規劃一直往下希望能得到一個算是比較長久的一個改善的一個方案一定要徹底提出長期就如同北回鐵路我剛剛講的民國69年到今年\n412557\t412717\t謝謝鄭天財委員\n","txt":"主席、各位委員有請次長、還有鐵道局局長、還有董事長、還有杜威董事長\n市長好委員好你是鐵路工程的專業不敢我們回想北回鐵路民國69年開通到現在就是今年因為04、03的大地震當天都還OK從民國69年一直到\n零四零三大地震檢視之後都沒有問題是因為後面的颱風加上大概幾百次了幾百次的移震才造成現在的北迴鐵路河仁道崇德這一段所以這個部分就\n鐵路的一個專業來講怎麼樣去解決這是一個我們等一下要去探討的部分我們先談這個國家鐵路安全計畫當然我們當初這個鐵路警交通部在測定的時候普悠瑪號什麼太魯閣號這些問題所以希望旅客臨時\n為安全政策的一個方針所以這個部分到底從這個開始執行到現在有沒有達成旅客臨死亡目前從111年來講旅客臨死亡的部分現在是有達成好我們繼續來努力我們現在接下來還是\n相關的這些你們都會去因應這個我就不多談了因為時間的關係我們看這個剛才講的北回鐵路從德到何人當然公路的部分是一件事情這個抒發安要趕快\n蘇和安要趕快這個就在蘇和安的範圍那鐵路的部分氣候變遷加上那個相關的這些地震的影響颱風的影響造成這樣的一個情形所以就這個次長包括鐵道局\n不能把這個責任全部放在台鐵我看這個報告今天的報告基本上都台鐵的鐵道局成立要兼負鐵道局的責任所以這個部分怎麼樣既然有多了一個鐵道局過去沒有啊北匯鐵路時代南匯鐵路時代沒有啊所以怎麼樣去\n強化去因應我看你們的那個報告裡面這都不是一個當然這都是現階段要做的啦現階段要做的怎麼樣去做一個長期的這裡面有提到長期的方案一定要推出來\n這個部分絕對是要交通部、鐵道局共同的跟台鐵公司共同去推動所以這個部分這個\n次長你要不要說明一下是 謝謝謝謝委員的一個提醒我想剛講的鐵道局的部分其實他也目前扮演這個很重要的角色譬如說他最近應該算是前年就引進所謂的檢察院的部分檢察院的部分以後他針對台鐵到現場\n更頻密增加深度增加的一個情況去檢查他到底一些程序有沒有落實已經檢查很多次了那有發現一些問題那些問題一樣是把他列管來做我想這個只是在這我們之前的報告沒有把他顯示出來而已其實他們也做了蠻多事情的\n那至於剛講從何人從的中間這個問題從上次零四零三之前大概都沒什麼問題但是從那一次以後大地震以後包括後面剛提到一百多次的遺症造成整個土壤都已經鬆動所以只要一下雨就會下來那剛提到我們大概擬定幾個方案第一個當然就是短期現在麻將要做的\n臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份\n臺鐵算是最下游上一部分也有問題然後我們這邊就可以及早知道那另外利用這個氣象署的QPES Plus這個部分來進行雨量的可能會對氣候的問題來做一個預測我想這部分這個都是我們要去做的那另外還有提到所謂的長期的部分和平到衝突這我們現在目前在進行改憲的一個評估因為確實那邊\n因為既有的隧道已經有那中間又有幾個像那個和人站那些如果說改線就會牽涉到這和人站到底要怎麼處理的問題我想這部分我們大概預計在年底或一個初步的評估的報告出來\n那如果後面我想順利後我們後面就開始要做進行可行性的這個規劃一直往下希望能得到一個算是比較長久的一個改善的一個方案一定要徹底提出長期就如同北回鐵路我剛剛講的民國69年到今年\n謝謝鄭天財委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.784 --> 00:13.946\n主席、各位委員有請次長、還有鐵道局局長、還有董事長、還有杜威董事長\n\n00:28.942 --> 00:55.414\n市長好委員好你是鐵路工程的專業不敢我們回想北回鐵路民國69年開通到現在就是今年因為04、03的大地震當天都還OK從民國69年一直到\n\n00:56.530 --> 01:24.905\n零四零三大地震檢視之後都沒有問題是因為後面的颱風加上大概幾百次了幾百次的移震才造成現在的北迴鐵路河仁道崇德這一段所以這個部分就\n\n01:25.940 --> 01:45.006\n鐵路的一個專業來講怎麼樣去解決這是一個我們等一下要去探討的部分我們先談這個國家鐵路安全計畫當然我們當初這個鐵路警交通部在測定的時候普悠瑪號什麼太魯閣號這些問題所以希望旅客臨時\n\n01:53.573 --> 02:15.848\n為安全政策的一個方針所以這個部分到底從這個開始執行到現在有沒有達成旅客臨死亡目前從111年來講旅客臨死亡的部分現在是有達成好我們繼續來努力我們現在接下來還是\n\n02:18.314 --> 02:34.159\n相關的這些你們都會去因應這個我就不多談了因為時間的關係我們看這個剛才講的北回鐵路從德到何人當然公路的部分是一件事情這個抒發安要趕快\n\n02:37.998 --> 03:05.408\n蘇和安要趕快這個就在蘇和安的範圍那鐵路的部分氣候變遷加上那個相關的這些地震的影響颱風的影響造成這樣的一個情形所以就這個次長包括鐵道局\n\n03:07.076 --> 03:34.176\n不能把這個責任全部放在台鐵我看這個報告今天的報告基本上都台鐵的鐵道局成立要兼負鐵道局的責任所以這個部分怎麼樣既然有多了一個鐵道局過去沒有啊北匯鐵路時代南匯鐵路時代沒有啊所以怎麼樣去\n\n03:36.449 --> 04:01.204\n強化去因應我看你們的那個報告裡面這都不是一個當然這都是現階段要做的啦現階段要做的怎麼樣去做一個長期的這裡面有提到長期的方案一定要推出來\n\n04:02.844 --> 04:12.840\n這個部分絕對是要交通部、鐵道局共同的跟台鐵公司共同去推動所以這個部分這個\n\n04:14.286 --> 04:33.504\n次長你要不要說明一下是謝謝謝謝委員的一個提醒我想剛講的鐵道局的部分其實他也目前扮演這個很重要的角色譬如說他最近應該算是前年就引進所謂的檢察院的部分檢察院的部分以後他針對台鐵到現場\n\n04:37.062 --> 04:56.219\n更頻密增加深度增加的一個情況去檢查他到底一些程序有沒有落實已經檢查很多次了那有發現一些問題那些問題一樣是把他列管來做我想這個只是在這我們之前的報告沒有把他顯示出來而已其實他們也做了蠻多事情的\n\n04:56.920 --> 05:19.290\n那至於剛講從何人從的中間這個問題從上次零四零三之前大概都沒什麼問題但是從那一次以後大地震以後包括後面剛提到一百多次的遺症造成整個土壤都已經鬆動所以只要一下雨就會下來那剛提到我們大概擬定幾個方案第一個當然就是短期現在麻將要做的\n\n05:19.650 --> 05:22.512\n臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份\n\n05:39.723 --> 06:06.964\n臺鐵算是最下游上一部分也有問題然後我們這邊就可以及早知道那另外利用這個氣象署的QPESPlus這個部分來進行雨量的可能會對氣候的問題來做一個預測我想這部分這個都是我們要去做的那另外還有提到所謂的長期的部分和平到衝突這我們現在目前在進行改憲的一個評估因為確實那邊\n\n06:09.466 --> 06:25.784\n因為既有的隧道已經有那中間又有幾個像那個和人站那些如果說改線就會牽涉到這和人站到底要怎麼處理的問題我想這部分我們大概預計在年底或一個初步的評估的報告出來\n\n06:26.325 --> 06:50.461\n那如果後面我想順利後我們後面就開始要做進行可行性的這個規劃一直往下希望能得到一個算是比較長久的一個改善的一個方案一定要徹底提出長期就如同北回鐵路我剛剛講的民國69年到今年\n\n06:52.557 --> 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Plus這個部分來進行雨量的可能會對氣候的問題來做一個預測我想這部分這個都是我們要去做的那另外還有提到所謂的長期的部分和平到衝突這我們現在目前在進行改憲的一個評估因為確實那邊"},{"start":369.466,"end":385.784,"text":"因為既有的隧道已經有那中間又有幾個像那個和人站那些如果說改線就會牽涉到這和人站到底要怎麼處理的問題我想這部分我們大概預計在年底或一個初步的評估的報告出來"},{"start":386.325,"end":410.461,"text":"那如果後面我想順利後我們後面就開始要做進行可行性的這個規劃一直往下希望能得到一個算是比較長久的一個改善的一個方案一定要徹底提出長期就如同北回鐵路我剛剛講的民國69年到今年"},{"start":412.557,"end":412.717,"text":"謝謝鄭天財委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":5,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-5","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:10:48 - 12:18:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就「臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155444,"gazette":{"lineno":765,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時10分）主席、各位委員。有請次長……"],["主席：請伍次長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還有鐵道局局長……"],["主席：請楊局長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：還有董事長，杜微董事長。"],["主席：請杜微董事長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：次長好！"],["伍次長勝園：委員好！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你是鐵路工程的專業……"],["伍次長勝園：不敢。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們回想北迴鐵路民國69年開通到現在，今年0403大地震當天都還OK，從民國69年一直到今年0403大地震檢視之後都沒有問題，是因為後面的颱風，加上大概幾百次的餘震，才造成現在北迴鐵路和仁到崇德這一段這樣，這個部分，就鐵路的專業來講，怎麼樣去解決？這是我們等一下要去探討的一個部分。","我們先談這個，國家鐵路安全計畫，當然當初交通部在策定的時候發生過普悠瑪號、太魯閣號這些問題，所以希望以「旅客零死亡」為安全政策的方針，這個部分從開始執行到現在到底有沒有達成旅客零死亡？"],["伍次長勝園：從111年來講，旅客零死亡的部分，現在是有達成。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，我們繼續來努力……"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：接下來還是相關的，這些你們都會去因應，我就不多談，因為時間的關係。","我們看剛才講的北迴鐵路崇德到和仁這一段；當然公路的部分是一件事情，蘇花安要趕快，蘇花安要趕快！這個就在蘇花安的範圍；鐵路的部分，氣候變遷加上地震的影響、颱風的影響，造成這樣的情形。次長，包括鐵道局，不能把這個責任全部放在臺鐵，我看今天這個報告，基本上都臺鐵的，鐵道局成立要肩負鐵道局的責任，既然現在有多了鐵道局，過去沒有，北迴鐵路的時代、南迴鐵路的時代沒有，所以這個部分怎麼樣去強化、去因應，我看你們的報告裡面，當然這都是現階段要做的，但是怎麼樣去做長期的，這裡面有提到長期的方案，一定要推出來，這個部分絕對是要交通部鐵道局和臺鐵公司共同去推動，這個部分，次長要不要說明一下？"],["伍次長勝園：是，謝謝委員的提醒。我想剛剛講的鐵道局的部分，其實它目前也扮演很重要的角色，譬如它前年就引進所謂檢查員的部分，檢查員的部分，針對臺鐵，以到現場的頻率更增加、深度更增加的情況去檢查它到底有沒有落實一些程序，已經檢查很多次了，有發現一些問題，那些問題一樣是列管來做，我想這個只是在我們之前的報告沒有顯示出來而已，其實他們也做了滿多事情的。","至於剛剛講的從和仁到崇德中間的這個問題，那次0403大地震之前大概都沒什麼問題，但是之後，包括剛剛提到的後面一百多次的餘震，造成整個土壤都已經鬆動，所以只要一下雨就會下來，剛剛提到我們大概擬定幾個方案，第一個當然就是短期現在馬上要做的，有可能去做一些清疏的動作，還有增設阻隔的部分；另外一個，我們也導入所謂流域管理這樣的概念，上游的農村水保署，還有林業署，以及我們公路局，進行區域聯防，因為那邊臺鐵算是最下游，這樣上游部分一有問題，我們這邊就可以及早知道；另外，利用氣象署的QPEplus這個部分來對雨量、氣候的問題做預測，我想這個部分都是我們要去做的。","另外還有所謂長期的部分，和平到崇德我們目前在進行改線的評估，那邊因為既有的隧道已經有了，中間又有幾個，像和仁站，如果現在改線，就會牽涉到和仁站到底要怎麼處理的問題，我想這個部分我們大概預計在年底會有一個初步的評估報告出來，如果後面順利的話，我們後面就開始要進行可行性的規劃，一直往下，希望能得到一個算是比較長久的改善方案。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：一定要徹底提出長期的，就如同北迴鐵路，我剛剛講的，民國69年到今年都沒有發生事情，所以希望這一次徹底的提出也能夠是百年的改善方案，而不是頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳，好不好？"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員。","接下來邀請羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-5","speakers":["陳素月","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖偉翔","徐富癸","何欣純","蔡其昌","廖先翔","黃建賓","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","陳冠廷","翁曉玲","黃國昌","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","游顥","邱若華","劉建國","林沛祥","葉元之"],"page_start":31,"meetingDate":["2024-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股\n份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就「臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00002"}}}