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00:00:00,091\n發言：\n\n2\n00:00:04,380 --> 00:00:29,986\n謝謝主席﹖有請部長﹖還有我們經濟部產業發展署署長﹖楊署長賴委員好是﹖部長﹖署長午安我想﹖因為我們是很後段的一個質詢那也聽到了很多委員的一個建議那在這裡我想請教部長就是說昨天宣布的一個碳費就是收費的一個標準每噸300塊\n\n3\n00:00:32,006 --> 00:00:57,265\n那環團也不滿意業者也不滿意經濟部也不滿意為什麼會造成這麼多的單位的不滿意呢?部長因為這個事情是要收錢大家都不會滿意的啦就跟繳稅一樣啦最好不要繳啦大家最開心啦但是這個是必須要跟國際接軌所以環團跟這個業界的這個心聲其實我們都聽到了但是這個是一個大家不滿意但是又可以接受的數字\n\n4\n00:00:57,745 --> 00:01:18,781\n所以是不甘願可是又不情不厭那可是是可以接受的那我想在這裡跟部長再做一個探討就是說碳費的收費的定期的一個檢討我覺得這個裡頭你剛才有講到了就是說250萬噸針對的中小企業你是兩年定期的檢討一次是不是\n\n5\n00:01:19,642 --> 00:01:43,300\n那如果你這個氣候變遷因應法裡頭的28條第一項到第三項你又講到了就是說碳費的徵收費用是由中央主管機關所設定的這個審議委員會那就是審議了那送中央主管機關來核定公告定期檢討那到底你這個定期的檢討是多久檢討一次\n\n6\n00:01:44,313 --> 00:02:08,609\n我們其實每年都會檢討啦但是政策要有一定的穩定性大概是兩年會調一次兩年會調一次那兩年調的一個局劇也是300塊嗎?不會不會應該其實這個到最後都要接軌國際啦要接軌國際那就是看國際怎麼走那像歐美他在2026他就是他已經上場了那上場的對在這個上場的過程裡頭那個都當機囉\n\n7\n00:02:23,461 --> 00:02:24,842\n主席暫停我們的電腦全部當機時間先暫停\n\n8\n00:02:51,735 --> 00:03:17,991\n好,再下一頁。好,主席,我們接著再下一頁。對,好,那部長,如果用碳匯的胡搗各個產業的一個減碳,那我們從裡頭,你就是說你會加大的那個減碳的一個力道的一個胡搗的資源,在這裡寫得很清楚,你跟經濟部跟環境部,你們裡頭講到了,經濟部他講的是胡搗的一個措施,\n\n9\n00:03:18,931 --> 00:03:44,113\n那環境部講的是碳費收入的一個專款專用這個定格的非常的清楚可是如果我們這樣子來看它的話政府好像是有點過路財神啊這個把錢從這個經濟部搬到環境部這個要怎麼解釋呢事實上就是說很多委員在質疑就是你的收費標準已經是太低了那我們知道就是說\n\n10\n00:03:45,274 --> 00:03:45,555\n這還是很多人會覺得太貴了\n\n11\n00:04:01,544 --> 00:04:01,564\n賴惠員\n\n12\n00:04:29,133 --> 00:04:29,153\n﹚賴惠員﹚\n\n13\n00:04:58,131 --> 00:05:22,570\n高耗能的產業它對國家的經濟是有重大的貢獻那就像陳儒署長講的就是說是不是讓產業留一些錢讓他去做他的產業的一個轉型這裡我特別要提到的就是跟部長跟署長提到的就是說畜牧業也需要減碳的一個輔導部長在所有的你這個產業裡頭你有沒有納入畜牧業\n\n14\n00:05:24,125 --> 00:05:39,499\n其實畜牧業雖然有排放這些甲烷,但是把它收集在一起,它還是可以發電的。我們現在正在研議這樣的措施,但是也要請委員多幫忙,因為我們的畜牧業分散非常的廣,\n\n15\n00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:46,864\n所以就是說部長我在這裡特別請教你就是說對於畜牧業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有跟農業部進行就是多次的這個研擬譬如說我們讓牛就是說因為他牛如果在飼料裡頭吃有一些紅棗的一個\n\n16\n00:06:09,958 --> 00:06:35,922\n施料的話他就比較不會打嗝啊不打嗝的話他就減少排放出甲烷這些我們其實都知道就是說養豬也是一樣啊豬的一個分量你剛剛就特別提到了就是豬也是可以讓他產生的一個早氣齁低塞齁產生的一個早氣那就是不知道就是說在這個畜牧產業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有一些有計劃性的一個推動\n\n17\n00:06:36,842 --> 00:06:55,513\n賴惠員,我們現在在爭取,例如說保險業的預算,其實我們希望找這個變成一個民間可以投資的機會。除了民間的投資以外,我們公務部門,我想希望你們也有一些計畫,那我希望就三個月內提出這一些計畫,那跟本席報告,謝謝。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝賴惠員委員發言。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n70\t91\t發言：\n4380\t29986\t謝謝主席﹖有請部長﹖還有我們經濟部產業發展署署長﹖楊署長賴委員好是﹖部長﹖署長午安我想﹖因為我們是很後段的一個質詢那也聽到了很多委員的一個建議那在這裡我想請教部長就是說昨天宣布的一個碳費就是收費的一個標準每噸300塊\n32006\t57265\t那環團也不滿意業者也不滿意經濟部也不滿意為什麼會造成這麼多的單位的不滿意呢?部長因為這個事情是要收錢大家都不會滿意的啦就跟繳稅一樣啦最好不要繳啦大家最開心啦但是這個是必須要跟國際接軌所以環團跟這個業界的這個心聲其實我們都聽到了但是這個是一個大家不滿意但是又可以接受的數字\n57745\t78781\t所以是不甘願可是又不情不厭那可是是可以接受的那我想在這裡跟部長再做一個探討就是說碳費的收費的定期的一個檢討我覺得這個裡頭你剛才有講到了就是說250萬噸針對的中小企業你是兩年定期的檢討一次是不是\n79642\t103300\t那如果你這個氣候變遷因應法裡頭的28條第一項到第三項你又講到了就是說碳費的徵收費用是由中央主管機關所設定的這個審議委員會那就是審議了那送中央主管機關來核定公告定期檢討那到底你這個定期的檢討是多久檢討一次\n104313\t128609\t我們其實每年都會檢討啦但是政策要有一定的穩定性大概是兩年會調一次兩年會調一次那兩年調的一個局劇也是300塊嗎?不會不會應該其實這個到最後都要接軌國際啦要接軌國際那就是看國際怎麼走那像歐美他在2026他就是他已經上場了那上場的對在這個上場的過程裡頭那個都當機囉\n143461\t144842\t主席暫停我們的電腦全部當機時間先暫停\n171735\t197991\t好,再下一頁。好,主席,我們接著再下一頁。對,好,那部長,如果用碳匯的胡搗各個產業的一個減碳,那我們從裡頭,你就是說你會加大的那個減碳的一個力道的一個胡搗的資源,在這裡寫得很清楚,你跟經濟部跟環境部,你們裡頭講到了,經濟部他講的是胡搗的一個措施,\n198931\t224113\t那環境部講的是碳費收入的一個專款專用這個定格的非常的清楚可是如果我們這樣子來看它的話政府好像是有點過路財神啊這個把錢從這個經濟部搬到環境部這個要怎麼解釋呢事實上就是說很多委員在質疑就是你的收費標準已經是太低了那我們知道就是說\n225274\t225555\t這還是很多人會覺得太貴了\n241544\t241564\t賴惠員\n269133\t269153\t﹚賴惠員﹚\n298131\t322570\t高耗能的產業它對國家的經濟是有重大的貢獻那就像陳儒署長講的就是說是不是讓產業留一些錢讓他去做他的產業的一個轉型這裡我特別要提到的就是跟部長跟署長提到的就是說畜牧業也需要減碳的一個輔導部長在所有的你這個產業裡頭你有沒有納入畜牧業\n324125\t339499\t其實畜牧業雖然有排放這些甲烷,但是把它收集在一起,它還是可以發電的。我們現在正在研議這樣的措施,但是也要請委員多幫忙,因為我們的畜牧業分散非常的廣,\n340160\t346864\t所以就是說部長我在這裡特別請教你就是說對於畜牧業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有跟農業部進行就是多次的這個研擬譬如說我們讓牛就是說因為他牛如果在飼料裡頭吃有一些紅棗的一個\n369958\t395922\t施料的話他就比較不會打嗝啊不打嗝的話他就減少排放出甲烷這些我們其實都知道就是說養豬也是一樣啊豬的一個分量你剛剛就特別提到了就是豬也是可以讓他產生的一個早氣齁低塞齁產生的一個早氣那就是不知道就是說在這個畜牧產業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有一些有計劃性的一個推動\n396842\t415513\t賴惠員,我們現在在爭取,例如說保險業的預算,其實我們希望找這個變成一個民間可以投資的機會。除了民間的投資以外,我們公務部門,我想希望你們也有一些計畫,那我希望就三個月內提出這一些計畫,那跟本席報告,謝謝。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝賴惠員委員發言。\n","txt":"發言：\n謝謝主席﹖有請部長﹖還有我們經濟部產業發展署署長﹖楊署長賴委員好是﹖部長﹖署長午安我想﹖因為我們是很後段的一個質詢那也聽到了很多委員的一個建議那在這裡我想請教部長就是說昨天宣布的一個碳費就是收費的一個標準每噸300塊\n那環團也不滿意業者也不滿意經濟部也不滿意為什麼會造成這麼多的單位的不滿意呢?部長因為這個事情是要收錢大家都不會滿意的啦就跟繳稅一樣啦最好不要繳啦大家最開心啦但是這個是必須要跟國際接軌所以環團跟這個業界的這個心聲其實我們都聽到了但是這個是一個大家不滿意但是又可以接受的數字\n所以是不甘願可是又不情不厭那可是是可以接受的那我想在這裡跟部長再做一個探討就是說碳費的收費的定期的一個檢討我覺得這個裡頭你剛才有講到了就是說250萬噸針對的中小企業你是兩年定期的檢討一次是不是\n那如果你這個氣候變遷因應法裡頭的28條第一項到第三項你又講到了就是說碳費的徵收費用是由中央主管機關所設定的這個審議委員會那就是審議了那送中央主管機關來核定公告定期檢討那到底你這個定期的檢討是多久檢討一次\n我們其實每年都會檢討啦但是政策要有一定的穩定性大概是兩年會調一次兩年會調一次那兩年調的一個局劇也是300塊嗎?不會不會應該其實這個到最後都要接軌國際啦要接軌國際那就是看國際怎麼走那像歐美他在2026他就是他已經上場了那上場的對在這個上場的過程裡頭那個都當機囉\n主席暫停我們的電腦全部當機時間先暫停\n好,再下一頁。好,主席,我們接著再下一頁。對,好,那部長,如果用碳匯的胡搗各個產業的一個減碳,那我們從裡頭,你就是說你會加大的那個減碳的一個力道的一個胡搗的資源,在這裡寫得很清楚,你跟經濟部跟環境部,你們裡頭講到了,經濟部他講的是胡搗的一個措施,\n那環境部講的是碳費收入的一個專款專用這個定格的非常的清楚可是如果我們這樣子來看它的話政府好像是有點過路財神啊這個把錢從這個經濟部搬到環境部這個要怎麼解釋呢事實上就是說很多委員在質疑就是你的收費標準已經是太低了那我們知道就是說\n這還是很多人會覺得太貴了\n賴惠員\n﹚賴惠員﹚\n高耗能的產業它對國家的經濟是有重大的貢獻那就像陳儒署長講的就是說是不是讓產業留一些錢讓他去做他的產業的一個轉型這裡我特別要提到的就是跟部長跟署長提到的就是說畜牧業也需要減碳的一個輔導部長在所有的你這個產業裡頭你有沒有納入畜牧業\n其實畜牧業雖然有排放這些甲烷,但是把它收集在一起,它還是可以發電的。我們現在正在研議這樣的措施,但是也要請委員多幫忙,因為我們的畜牧業分散非常的廣,\n所以就是說部長我在這裡特別請教你就是說對於畜牧業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有跟農業部進行就是多次的這個研擬譬如說我們讓牛就是說因為他牛如果在飼料裡頭吃有一些紅棗的一個\n施料的話他就比較不會打嗝啊不打嗝的話他就減少排放出甲烷這些我們其實都知道就是說養豬也是一樣啊豬的一個分量你剛剛就特別提到了就是豬也是可以讓他產生的一個早氣齁低塞齁產生的一個早氣那就是不知道就是說在這個畜牧產業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有一些有計劃性的一個推動\n賴惠員,我們現在在爭取,例如說保險業的預算,其實我們希望找這個變成一個民間可以投資的機會。除了民間的投資以外,我們公務部門,我想希望你們也有一些計畫,那我希望就三個月內提出這一些計畫,那跟本席報告,謝謝。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝賴惠員委員發言。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.070 --> 00:00.091\n發言：\n\n00:04.380 --> 00:29.986\n謝謝主席﹖有請部長﹖還有我們經濟部產業發展署署長﹖楊署長賴委員好是﹖部長﹖署長午安我想﹖因為我們是很後段的一個質詢那也聽到了很多委員的一個建議那在這裡我想請教部長就是說昨天宣布的一個碳費就是收費的一個標準每噸300塊\n\n00:32.006 --> 00:57.265\n那環團也不滿意業者也不滿意經濟部也不滿意為什麼會造成這麼多的單位的不滿意呢?部長因為這個事情是要收錢大家都不會滿意的啦就跟繳稅一樣啦最好不要繳啦大家最開心啦但是這個是必須要跟國際接軌所以環團跟這個業界的這個心聲其實我們都聽到了但是這個是一個大家不滿意但是又可以接受的數字\n\n00:57.745 --> 01:18.781\n所以是不甘願可是又不情不厭那可是是可以接受的那我想在這裡跟部長再做一個探討就是說碳費的收費的定期的一個檢討我覺得這個裡頭你剛才有講到了就是說250萬噸針對的中小企業你是兩年定期的檢討一次是不是\n\n01:19.642 --> 01:43.300\n那如果你這個氣候變遷因應法裡頭的28條第一項到第三項你又講到了就是說碳費的徵收費用是由中央主管機關所設定的這個審議委員會那就是審議了那送中央主管機關來核定公告定期檢討那到底你這個定期的檢討是多久檢討一次\n\n01:44.313 --> 02:08.609\n我們其實每年都會檢討啦但是政策要有一定的穩定性大概是兩年會調一次兩年會調一次那兩年調的一個局劇也是300塊嗎?不會不會應該其實這個到最後都要接軌國際啦要接軌國際那就是看國際怎麼走那像歐美他在2026他就是他已經上場了那上場的對在這個上場的過程裡頭那個都當機囉\n\n02:23.461 --> 02:24.842\n主席暫停我們的電腦全部當機時間先暫停\n\n02:51.735 --> 03:17.991\n好,再下一頁。好,主席,我們接著再下一頁。對,好,那部長,如果用碳匯的胡搗各個產業的一個減碳,那我們從裡頭,你就是說你會加大的那個減碳的一個力道的一個胡搗的資源,在這裡寫得很清楚,你跟經濟部跟環境部,你們裡頭講到了,經濟部他講的是胡搗的一個措施,\n\n03:18.931 --> 03:44.113\n那環境部講的是碳費收入的一個專款專用這個定格的非常的清楚可是如果我們這樣子來看它的話政府好像是有點過路財神啊這個把錢從這個經濟部搬到環境部這個要怎麼解釋呢事實上就是說很多委員在質疑就是你的收費標準已經是太低了那我們知道就是說\n\n03:45.274 --> 03:45.555\n這還是很多人會覺得太貴了\n\n04:01.544 --> 04:01.564\n賴惠員\n\n04:29.133 --> 04:29.153\n﹚賴惠員﹚\n\n04:58.131 --> 05:22.570\n高耗能的產業它對國家的經濟是有重大的貢獻那就像陳儒署長講的就是說是不是讓產業留一些錢讓他去做他的產業的一個轉型這裡我特別要提到的就是跟部長跟署長提到的就是說畜牧業也需要減碳的一個輔導部長在所有的你這個產業裡頭你有沒有納入畜牧業\n\n05:24.125 --> 05:39.499\n其實畜牧業雖然有排放這些甲烷,但是把它收集在一起,它還是可以發電的。我們現在正在研議這樣的措施,但是也要請委員多幫忙,因為我們的畜牧業分散非常的廣,\n\n05:40.160 --> 05:46.864\n所以就是說部長我在這裡特別請教你就是說對於畜牧業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有跟農業部進行就是多次的這個研擬譬如說我們讓牛就是說因為他牛如果在飼料裡頭吃有一些紅棗的一個\n\n06:09.958 --> 06:35.922\n施料的話他就比較不會打嗝啊不打嗝的話他就減少排放出甲烷這些我們其實都知道就是說養豬也是一樣啊豬的一個分量你剛剛就特別提到了就是豬也是可以讓他產生的一個早氣齁低塞齁產生的一個早氣那就是不知道就是說在這個畜牧產業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有一些有計劃性的一個推動\n\n06:36.842 --> 06:55.513\n賴惠員,我們現在在爭取,例如說保險業的預算,其實我們希望找這個變成一個民間可以投資的機會。除了民間的投資以外,我們公務部門,我想希望你們也有一些計畫,那我希望就三個月內提出這一些計畫,那跟本席報告,謝謝。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝賴惠員委員發言。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.07,"end":0.091,"text":"發言："},{"start":4.38,"end":29.986,"text":"謝謝主席﹖有請部長﹖還有我們經濟部產業發展署署長﹖楊署長賴委員好是﹖部長﹖署長午安我想﹖因為我們是很後段的一個質詢那也聽到了很多委員的一個建議那在這裡我想請教部長就是說昨天宣布的一個碳費就是收費的一個標準每噸300塊"},{"start":32.006,"end":57.265,"text":"那環團也不滿意業者也不滿意經濟部也不滿意為什麼會造成這麼多的單位的不滿意呢?部長因為這個事情是要收錢大家都不會滿意的啦就跟繳稅一樣啦最好不要繳啦大家最開心啦但是這個是必須要跟國際接軌所以環團跟這個業界的這個心聲其實我們都聽到了但是這個是一個大家不滿意但是又可以接受的數字"},{"start":57.745,"end":78.781,"text":"所以是不甘願可是又不情不厭那可是是可以接受的那我想在這裡跟部長再做一個探討就是說碳費的收費的定期的一個檢討我覺得這個裡頭你剛才有講到了就是說250萬噸針對的中小企業你是兩年定期的檢討一次是不是"},{"start":79.642,"end":103.3,"text":"那如果你這個氣候變遷因應法裡頭的28條第一項到第三項你又講到了就是說碳費的徵收費用是由中央主管機關所設定的這個審議委員會那就是審議了那送中央主管機關來核定公告定期檢討那到底你這個定期的檢討是多久檢討一次"},{"start":104.313,"end":128.609,"text":"我們其實每年都會檢討啦但是政策要有一定的穩定性大概是兩年會調一次兩年會調一次那兩年調的一個局劇也是300塊嗎?不會不會應該其實這個到最後都要接軌國際啦要接軌國際那就是看國際怎麼走那像歐美他在2026他就是他已經上場了那上場的對在這個上場的過程裡頭那個都當機囉"},{"start":143.461,"end":144.842,"text":"主席暫停我們的電腦全部當機時間先暫停"},{"start":171.735,"end":197.991,"text":"好,再下一頁。好,主席,我們接著再下一頁。對,好,那部長,如果用碳匯的胡搗各個產業的一個減碳,那我們從裡頭,你就是說你會加大的那個減碳的一個力道的一個胡搗的資源,在這裡寫得很清楚,你跟經濟部跟環境部,你們裡頭講到了,經濟部他講的是胡搗的一個措施,"},{"start":198.931,"end":224.113,"text":"那環境部講的是碳費收入的一個專款專用這個定格的非常的清楚可是如果我們這樣子來看它的話政府好像是有點過路財神啊這個把錢從這個經濟部搬到環境部這個要怎麼解釋呢事實上就是說很多委員在質疑就是你的收費標準已經是太低了那我們知道就是說"},{"start":225.274,"end":225.555,"text":"這還是很多人會覺得太貴了"},{"start":241.544,"end":241.564,"text":"賴惠員"},{"start":269.133,"end":269.153,"text":"﹚賴惠員﹚"},{"start":298.131,"end":322.57,"text":"高耗能的產業它對國家的經濟是有重大的貢獻那就像陳儒署長講的就是說是不是讓產業留一些錢讓他去做他的產業的一個轉型這裡我特別要提到的就是跟部長跟署長提到的就是說畜牧業也需要減碳的一個輔導部長在所有的你這個產業裡頭你有沒有納入畜牧業"},{"start":324.125,"end":339.499,"text":"其實畜牧業雖然有排放這些甲烷,但是把它收集在一起,它還是可以發電的。我們現在正在研議這樣的措施,但是也要請委員多幫忙,因為我們的畜牧業分散非常的廣,"},{"start":340.16,"end":346.864,"text":"所以就是說部長我在這裡特別請教你就是說對於畜牧業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有跟農業部進行就是多次的這個研擬譬如說我們讓牛就是說因為他牛如果在飼料裡頭吃有一些紅棗的一個"},{"start":369.958,"end":395.922,"text":"施料的話他就比較不會打嗝啊不打嗝的話他就減少排放出甲烷這些我們其實都知道就是說養豬也是一樣啊豬的一個分量你剛剛就特別提到了就是豬也是可以讓他產生的一個早氣齁低塞齁產生的一個早氣那就是不知道就是說在這個畜牧產業的一個減碳的一個輔導是不是有一些有計劃性的一個推動"},{"start":396.842,"end":415.513,"text":"賴惠員,我們現在在爭取,例如說保險業的預算,其實我們希望找這個變成一個民間可以投資的機會。除了民間的投資以外,我們公務部門,我想希望你們也有一些計畫,那我希望就三個月內提出這一些計畫,那跟本席報告,謝謝。好,謝謝委員。好,謝謝賴惠員委員發言。"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-3","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:42:20 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13:49:19","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部就「台灣的碳費收費標準決議」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":155462,"gazette":{"lineno":1528,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（13時42分）謝謝主席，有請部長還有經濟部產業發展署楊署長。"],["主席：請彭部長、楊署長。"],["彭部長啓明：賴委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：是，部長、署長午安。"],["楊署長志清：委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：因為我是很後段的質詢，也聽到了很多委員的建議，在這裡我想請教部長，昨天宣布的碳費收費標準每一噸300塊，環團也不滿意、業者也不滿意、經濟部也不滿意，為什麼會造成這麼多單位的不滿意呢？部長。"],["彭部長啓明：因為這個事情是要收錢，大家都不會滿意的，就跟繳稅一樣，最好不要繳，大家最開心，但是這個是必須要跟國際接軌，所以環團跟業界的心聲其實我們都聽到了，這是一個大家不滿意，但是又可以接受的數字啦！"],["賴委員惠員：所以是不甘願、不情不願，可是是可以接受的。我想在這裡跟部長再做一個探討，就是碳費收費的定期檢討，這個裡頭你剛才有講到了，250萬噸針對中小企業，你是兩年定期的檢討一次，是不是？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["賴委員惠員：氣候變遷因應法裡頭的第二十八條第一項到第三項，有講到碳費的徵收費率是由中央主管機關所設定的審議委員會審議，送中央主管機關來核定公告，並定期檢討，那到底你這個定期的檢討是多久檢討一次？"],["彭部長啓明：我們其實每年都會檢討，但是政策要有一定的穩定性，大概是兩年會調一次。"],["賴委員惠員：兩年會調一次？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["賴委員惠員：兩年調的級距也是300塊嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：不會、不會，應該……其實這個到最後都要接軌國際。"],["賴委員惠員：要接軌國際，那就是看國際怎麼走，像歐盟在2026已經上場了，在這個上場的過程裡……主席，暫停，我們的電腦全部當機。"],["主席：時間先暫停。"],["賴委員惠員：好，我們接著再下一頁。部長，如果用碳費輔導各個產業減碳，從裡頭你會加大減碳力道的輔導資源，在這裡寫得很清楚，經濟部跟環境部講到了，經濟部講的是輔導的措施，環境部講的是碳費收入的專款專用，這個訂得非常的清楚。可是如果我們這樣子來看的話，政府好像是有一點過路財神，把錢從經濟部搬到環境部，這個要怎麼解釋呢？事實上，很多委員在質疑你的收費標準已經是太低了，我們看到了在這幾個高耗能的產業裡頭，大家在質疑你這個費用是訂得太便宜了，部長，你怎麼回應這些問題呢？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，還是有很多人會覺得太貴了。"],["賴委員惠員：可是針對高耗能產業，我想請署長來回應，在一般整個產業的發展裡頭，其實在這一波也面臨到了減碳的壓力，特別是在全球減碳排量這個趨勢之下，那在國內的高耗能產業，不管是鋼鐵業、石化業還是水泥業，這幾個產業裡頭，好像顯然……我們每一噸300塊，你覺得訂得合理嗎？"],["楊署長志清：現在主要是因為大環境不佳，我們這邊是認為說留一點錢讓企業真正去做減碳，因為減碳必須要汰換設備，這些都必須要花錢，所以希望是用穩健的方式，基本上相關意見都在委員會上面做表示，也跟大家充分溝通。"],["賴委員惠員：當然，我們知道高耗能產業對國家的經濟是有重大的貢獻，就誠如署長講的，是不是讓產業留一些錢，讓它去做產業的轉型。","這裡我特別要跟部長、署長提到，畜牧業也需要減碳的輔導，部長，在所有的產業裡頭，你有沒有納入畜牧業？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實畜牧業雖然有排放甲烷，但是其實把它收集在一起，它還是可以發電的，我們現在在研議這樣的措施，但是也要請委員多幫忙，因為我們的畜牧業分散非常的廣，然後它能不能像「台以八翁」那麼團結，這個有待大家的努力，我們希望找到更多像「台以八翁」把廢物變成發電這樣的措施，這個反而會造成減碳。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，我在這裡特別請教你，對於畜牧業減碳的輔導，是不是有跟農業部進行多次的研擬，譬如說我們讓牛……因為牛如果吃有一些紅棗的飼料的話，就比較不會打嗝，不打嗝的話，就減少排放出甲烷，這些我們其實都知道；養豬也是一樣，豬糞你剛剛就特別提到了，也是產生了沼氣。不知道在畜牧產業減碳的輔導，是不是有一些計畫性的推動？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們現在在爭取例如說保險業的預算，其實我們希望這個變成一個民間可以投資的機會，所以我們的確……"],["賴委員惠員：除了民間的投資以外，我希望公務部門你們也有一些計畫，3個月內提出跟本席報告，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴惠員委員發言。","接下來請葉元之委員，葉元之委員，葉元之委員不在。","接下來請陳瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-3","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","涂權吉","陳菁徽","柯志恩","李坤城","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴士葆","王鴻薇","牛煦庭","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","廖先翔","羅智強","張智倫","林淑芬","洪孟楷","楊曜","黃健豪","賴惠員","陳瑩","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部就「台灣的碳費收費標準決議」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00001"}}}