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\"text\": \"對這也是我們金管會也觀察到這個問題也也也承蒙很多委員你要跟國防部好好討論一下最重要的是我今天的訴求還是很簡單我們要加強管理非金融機構的民間放貸行為這才是今天問題的嚴重性我們之前講有三家影子銀行三大租賃公司\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 824.273, \"end\": 824.473, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 824.473, \"end\": 824.613, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 824.613, \"end\": 824.854, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 824.854, \"end\": 824.994, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 824.994, \"end\": 825.414, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 825.414, \"end\": 825.934, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 825.934, \"end\": 826.094, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 826.094, \"end\": 826.475, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 826.475, \"end\": 827.175, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"也\", 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\"end\": 881.72, \"text\": \"主委,我很清楚你的主張。 院長,主委想做,你要不要支持他做?當然支持,我非常支持彭珠在這個方面提出的方法。那我現在就講,在96年的時候張俊雄院長的時候已經訂了融資公司專法,而且當時就以金管會為管理機關。 這件事情我相信主委也非常認真。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 855.013, \"end\": 860.054, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 860.054, \"end\": 860.435, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 860.435, \"end\": 861.195, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 861.195, \"end\": 862.575, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 862.575, \"end\": 862.735, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 862.735, \"end\": 862.855, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 862.855, \"end\": 862.895, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 862.895, \"end\": 863.035, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 863.035, \"end\": 863.495, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 863.495, \"end\": 864.015, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": 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00:02:56,671\n對,還沒有做今年都沒有做嗎?沒錯\n\n8\n00:03:21,767 --> 00:03:36,805\n所以院長其實我現在的問題是發生事情因為現在有點像狼來了每天演習演到最後大家心理上面就沒有戒心了第二個他如果真的要發動動作的時候比如說他真的發了假簡訊告訴大家說ATM領不到錢\n\n9\n00:03:39,063 --> 00:03:57,405\n臺灣人可能有人會相信那這個部分其實政府要增強人民的信心而且要有建立正確的管道這個部分的金融兵推我覺得現在要做而且平常就要教育我們的民眾從現在開始可能金融上面的第一關是每個民眾都非常在意的\n\n10\n00:03:58,326 --> 00:04:23,704\n你看,烏克蘭發生災難第一件事情大家就是幹嘛?領錢,然後討難。這兩件事情會是第一,優先。所以這個部分,金融兵推,去年做過,今年可能還沒有完成。那院長上任,我希望,是不是變成常態性的。第二個,是不是有具體的兵推之後的檢討跟相關的精進的作業,甚至我希望開始要增加人民的信心。\n\n11\n00:04:24,144 --> 00:04:47,719\n好,跟我們報告,這個包括重要的基礎,關鍵基礎設施,民生維生系統,通訊系統,以及金融系統,交通系統,這個都是在我們全社會任性防衛當中,我們都會把它當作非常重要的事情來處理。我同意啊,因為我們,我在財政委員會啊,最關心的是我們三大龍頭,我們自己能不能先穩健,第二個,\n\n12\n00:04:48,519 --> 00:05:14,264\n一戰爭就要增加軍費﹖人民要繳更多的稅﹖第三個我們的錢夠不夠﹖我們有沒有準備好這些軍費﹖這才是我們關心的﹖好嗎那委員說最近以來這種軍艦、軍機﹖各種的演習很多、狀況很多﹖來的時候我們不慌不亂﹖沒有的時候我們也做好所有的準備﹖也不會任何的放鬆。請委員放鬆。院長我希望金融兵推在你上任之後我可以看到第一次的金融兵推好嗎\n\n13\n00:05:15,024 --> 00:05:16,946\n我會跟部長跟總裁我們怎麼樣讓國人安心表達我們已經做好了充分的準備,這個謝謝委員的提醒。\n\n14\n00:05:39,093 --> 00:06:01,938\n每次院長我都會問同樣的問題啊財政收支劃分法從您上任第一次的總質詢還有部長我們在財政委員會其實講的非常多次那現在國民黨團他們也提出他們的修正版本將要靠攏民進民眾黨版本也就是我們上一次所提的這個修正案那目前為止我想只問你一句話\n\n15\n00:06:02,598 --> 00:06:18,620\n行政院要不要休?休還是不休?你們要不要提出自己的版本?兩點跟委員報告。第一,我們認為現在的版本具執行是行政院最有把握的。不是,你上次跟我說的嘛,已經是最佳的共識了。對,對,對。就25年來,現在是最好的狀況。\n\n16\n00:06:19,321 --> 00:06:44,214\n我們認為現在的版本來執行是我們最有把握的﹖而且我們會持續對地方政府做更多的補助﹖第二點呢﹖所以院長﹖你認為只要按照大有為的政府來決定就好﹖所以不需要入法﹖不需要制度化﹖就是按照你們現在的版本就是最好的版本﹖不是大有為的政府﹖之前陳水扁、蔡英文跟賴清德所說才化法要修正﹖他們是導彈鬼囉﹖\n\n17\n00:06:45,808 --> 00:07:10,606\n不是,這是這個時代的不同,時間的不同,我們各有不同的考量。時間的不同,我們只是希望把你講的最好的辦法入法而已。你現在所說的最好的辦法,我們希望它制度化、明確化,而不是單純的按照行政院自己的意志,而地方政府沒有參與的機會。沒有沒有,我剛剛只說了一點,我還有第二點,就是現在立法院的氣氛正朝向更好的方向發展。\n\n18\n00:07:11,707 --> 00:07:35,175\n我知道最近要展開草野協商我覺得這個事情也可以來進行草野協商重要的一部分那這個至於內容我想部長非常努力在溝通在收集在了解各方的意見沒錯院長我們就是要告訴你我們真的很希望這是民眾黨的版本我們很清楚的把垂直分配的金額跟數量都寫出來所以民眾黨的原則很簡單\n\n19\n00:07:36,015 --> 00:07:40,179\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n20\n00:08:02,108 --> 00:08:02,448\n所以我們要設定的是叫做\n\n21\n00:08:20,368 --> 00:08:39,466\n統籌分配稅款分配委員會,委員會的部分就會讓財政部跟地方政府有相關討論的過程,而且讓財政部保留他們可以調節所謂的一般性補助款,調節他們的統籌分配稅款,所以民眾黨版本沒有訂建,但是要討論。\n\n22\n00:08:42,068 --> 00:08:57,601\n我們在上個會期在財政委員會做了一個很好的決議希望你們提出自己的版本我現在只有簡單的問行政院是不打算提版本嗎還是要等黨團協商還是要破釜沉舟還是要垂死掙扎\n\n23\n00:08:58,605 --> 00:09:28,065\n跟委員說明一下,非常贊成委員剛剛提到,第一個財政收支劃分法這件事情,第一個我們的前提,第一個要兼顧地方財政需求,而且要維新中央的一個政經來因應緊急的需要,我們也都在努力當中,那您提到的是垂直分配,那水平分配的部分事實上它更重要,因為涉及到同一方政府的分配,所以我們也召開會議,然後有更大集約一個更大的一個共識,這都在努力當中。\n\n24\n00:09:28,285 --> 00:09:33,311\n這三個問題跟委員報告,行政院的版本在沒有更好的之前,我們認為現在是最好的版本。在進入法案審查之前,我們認為現在的版本我們來執行是最有把握的。\n\n25\n00:09:50,670 --> 00:10:17,058\n將來我希望我們還是透過很誠懇的朝野協商來達到大家共同的共識。院長我們在財政委員會我想委員都非常善意所以上個會期就希望我們幫的意見告訴了你們我們沒有說硬要怎麼樣但是今年這個會期看起來包括我們的召委會牌我們的版本也在裡面我們也希望你們有版本大家一起討論所以沒有人要強度關山但是\n\n26\n00:10:18,263 --> 00:10:46,735\n行政院不能假裝沒看見這件事情假設在立法院通過你們又要再來搞一次復議嗎還是要再來搞一次釋憲呢我們希望在討論的過程當中不要再製造朝野的對立我們要希望你們好好來討論朝野黨團好好的協商那行政院也能在適當的機會表達我們跟大院裡面的共同的討論沒錯所以拜託如果部長可以的話你說的水平分配你們認為有爭議的部分就拿到立法院來討論好嗎\n\n27\n00:10:50,815 --> 00:11:16,260\n主委請回主委上來就是院長我們還是要強調臺灣現在的融資公司其實叫做話外之地融資公司只要他有做公司登記任何公司都可以借錢給別人因為公司法只有規定40%以內資本額他就可以\n\n28\n00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:45,599\n所以我們現在坊間的融資公司各種樣態﹖大大小小﹖假買賣、徵貸款這種狀況非常的嚴重。今年起訴了兩個士官兵洩密去抵債。為什麼?因為他們去跟不法的或者是不知道哪裡來的所謂的融資公司借錢。還不出來就幹嘛?回去偷機密。\n\n29\n00:11:46,590 --> 00:12:09,124\n這是很嚴重的,剛剛我們講我們的國家安全很重要,然後我們的士官兵竟然用洩密來抵債,這個融資公司已經不單單只是社會問題了,它可能還是國家安全問題。另外這個部分就是我們主委也跟你談論過,我們台灣調查過的年輕世代的金融素養,\n\n30\n00:12:10,492 --> 00:12:29,045\n第一根極低竟然高達百分之八十一也就是大家不知道怎麼理財大家不知道要到哪裡去找到合法的融資管道然後甚至剛剛講的即使他已經是國軍官兵了他受了教育可能也不讓他不知道去哪裡借錢去借到了不該借的錢\n\n31\n00:12:30,799 --> 00:12:53,741\n更嚴重的是我們國軍的軍紀有一個規定嚴禁國軍向不法機構執押、執銷或營內籌組或聚會等情勢也就是說國軍不可以隨便去亂借錢也不可以去做一些執銷或者是說在裡面搞錢的事情但是我想問的是主委請問什麼叫做不法機構\n\n32\n00:12:55,557 --> 00:13:09,183\n報告委員剛剛我講全臺灣的公司只要是公司登記的就可以借錢他是不是不法機構是報告委員其實有關融資註定公司在民國85年大家就開始討論到這個問題到現在已經快30年可見他的問題的複雜度很嚴重\n\n33\n00:13:11,664 --> 00:13:41,007\n像剛才提到就是說我們現在因為我們在銀行法或是在法律上融資借款並不是特許的業務是因為不是特許一般公司只要有符合登記他就可以做這個所謂的收賬款買賣之類的業務院長這就是我要今天提出來的這個事情很嚴重嚴重到說用放貸做掩護然後要求收集個資引發軍人洩密而且軍人很容易借到錢只要你說你是軍人每個公司都會借你錢為什麼很穩定\n\n34\n00:13:42,261 --> 00:13:43,558\n一定會反。對不對?\n\n35\n00:13:44,273 --> 00:14:04,206\n對這也是我們金管會也觀察到這個問題也也也承蒙很多委員你要跟國防部好好討論一下最重要的是我今天的訴求還是很簡單我們要加強管理非金融機構的民間放貸行為這才是今天問題的嚴重性我們之前講有三家影子銀行三大租賃公司\n\n36\n00:14:15,013 --> 00:14:41,720\n主委,我很清楚你的主張。院長,主委想做,你要不要支持他做?當然支持,我非常支持彭珠在這個方面提出的方法。那我現在就講,在96年的時候張俊雄院長的時候已經訂了融資公司專法,而且當時就以金管會為管理機關。這件事情我相信主委也非常認真。\n\n37\n00:14:42,640 --> 00:15:11,756\n然後我們看到全世界國家裡面大部分都會成立專責機關目前只有臺灣沒有臺灣是一個經濟部要關幾十萬家公司的人在管所謂的融資處理公司他等於沒管其實金管會有一些比較替代性的方案正在執行中那我們未來希望能更具體的來做這件事情主委我希望訂專法這個專法同樣的民眾黨我們已經提了版本我相信民進黨團裡面有非常的委員也很重視這件事院長支持金管會把他納管\n\n38\n00:15:12,506 --> 00:15:38,093\n我支持首先必須納管,再來可以考慮各種形式的專法,將來加強他的登記條件以及他的審核,要嚴審。院長,可不可以在一個月之內給我一個初步的回應,把你剛剛所說的方向跟接下去要納管,我希望至少要納管到幾件事。第一個,這裡的資格,資金的準備,從業人員的資格,還有信用管制跟放貸條件,最重要的是違約金的上限。\n\n39\n00:15:38,753 --> 00:15:56,814\n報告委員,剛剛說的都是軍管會最近跟我說明的內容,我希望它在完整之後,我們將...好,謝謝黃委員。好,謝謝卓院長。林柱英委員之質詢以...\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2008\t19934\t好謝謝主席好謝謝主席我想請卓院長、金管會彭主委、財政部莊部長以及央行楊總裁我們以上的長官請備詢\n41585\t68644\t黃委員好院長好還有三位首長好我想這幾天大家都看到了中國對台灣的步步進逼現在的軍演還有貿易戰法律戰其實出招不斷雖然今天只有財政部門我現在要問一下院長這幾天看到這個演習當然現在的侵擾已經是每一天都發生那我最關心的是我們金融上面\n69850\t95433\t相關的應對也就是在烏克蘭戰爭最大的問題是他先做了一些金融上面的破壞但是還好人家有做準備我想問的是今年3月的時候我們金融研訓院說要加強兵推然後部長在3月份的回答是去年有做過我想問一下我們的金融兵推做好準備了沒有院長\n96769\t124178\t好,謝謝委員。這真的是一個不平靜的時代,從烏克蘭戰爭到中東的衝突,那麼中國又適宜的隨時的在台灣的周遭進行任何大大小小的這個狀況。這個已經不奇怪了,現在是未來可能的就是金融上面的破壞,尤其是在烏克蘭戰爭發生之前,就做了一些金融體系的恐嚇。\n124978\t149739\t甚至發動假的訊息說給所有的烏克蘭人的手機說ATM領到錢了這件事情會不會在臺灣發生我們做好準備就拿昨天的例子昨天早上總統一早召開了國安高層會議聽取各方報告之後做了重要的指示隨後行政院也希望回來之後通令各部會我們希望在這個股會是經濟民生\n151761\t174549\t還有治安方面,尤其治安可能就跟委員所說的,我們希望臺灣的所有的跟民生相關的,或者重要基礎設施,任何的治安的保全都要非常的盡到狀況。 委員長,我只關心今天只要回答我,金融兵推去年10月12日有做,今年做了沒?做好準備了沒?還是你們已經有相關的答案,非常穩,非常已經有把握不需要再做了?\n175250\t176671\t對,還沒有做今年都沒有做嗎?沒錯\n201767\t216805\t所以院長其實我現在的問題是發生事情因為現在有點像狼來了每天演習演到最後大家心理上面就沒有戒心了第二個他如果真的要發動動作的時候比如說他真的發了假簡訊告訴大家說ATM領不到錢\n219063\t237405\t臺灣人可能有人會相信那這個部分其實政府要增強人民的信心而且要有建立正確的管道這個部分的金融兵推我覺得現在要做而且平常就要教育我們的民眾從現在開始可能金融上面的第一關是每個民眾都非常在意的\n238326\t263704\t你看,烏克蘭發生災難第一件事情大家就是幹嘛?領錢,然後討難。 這兩件事情會是第一,優先。 所以這個部分,金融兵推,去年做過,今年可能還沒有完成。 那院長上任,我希望,是不是變成常態性的。 第二個,是不是有具體的兵推之後的檢討跟相關的精進的作業,甚至我希望開始要增加人民的信心。\n264144\t287719\t好,跟我們報告,這個包括重要的基礎,關鍵基礎設施,民生維生系統,通訊系統,以及金融系統,交通系統,這個都是在我們全社會任性防衛當中,我們都會把它當作非常重要的事情來處理。我同意啊,因為我們,我在財政委員會啊,最關心的是我們三大龍頭,我們自己能不能先穩健,第二個,\n288519\t314264\t一戰爭就要增加軍費﹖人民要繳更多的稅﹖第三個我們的錢夠不夠﹖我們有沒有準備好這些軍費﹖這才是我們關心的﹖好嗎那委員說最近以來這種軍艦、軍機﹖各種的演習很多、狀況很多﹖來的時候我們不慌不亂﹖沒有的時候我們也做好所有的準備﹖也不會任何的放鬆。 請委員放鬆。院長我希望金融兵推在你上任之後我可以看到第一次的金融兵推好嗎\n315024\t316946\t我會跟部長跟總裁我們怎麼樣讓國人安心表達我們已經做好了充分的準備,這個謝謝委員的提醒。\n339093\t361938\t每次院長我都會問同樣的問題啊財政收支劃分法從您上任第一次的總質詢還有部長我們在財政委員會其實講的非常多次那現在國民黨團他們也提出他們的修正版本將要靠攏民進民眾黨版本也就是我們上一次所提的這個修正案那目前為止我想只問你一句話\n362598\t378620\t行政院要不要休?休還是不休?你們要不要提出自己的版本?兩點跟委員報告。第一,我們認為現在的版本具執行是行政院最有把握的。不是,你上次跟我說的嘛,已經是最佳的共識了。對,對,對。就25年來,現在是最好的狀況。\n379321\t404214\t我們認為現在的版本來執行是我們最有把握的﹖而且我們會持續對地方政府做更多的補助﹖第二點呢﹖所以院長﹖你認為只要按照大有為的政府來決定就好﹖所以不需要入法﹖不需要制度化﹖就是按照你們現在的版本就是最好的版本﹖不是大有為的政府﹖之前陳水扁、蔡英文跟賴清德所說才化法要修正﹖他們是導彈鬼囉﹖\n405808\t430606\t不是,這是這個時代的不同,時間的不同,我們各有不同的考量。時間的不同,我們只是希望把你講的最好的辦法入法而已。你現在所說的最好的辦法,我們希望它制度化、明確化,而不是單純的按照行政院自己的意志,而地方政府沒有參與的機會。沒有沒有,我剛剛只說了一點,我還有第二點,就是現在立法院的氣氛正朝向更好的方向發展。\n431707\t455175\t我知道最近要展開草野協商我覺得這個事情也可以來進行草野協商重要的一部分那這個至於內容我想部長非常努力在溝通在收集在了解各方的意見沒錯院長我們就是要告訴你我們真的很希望這是民眾黨的版本我們很清楚的把垂直分配的金額跟數量都寫出來所以民眾黨的原則很簡單\n456015\t460179\t三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n482108\t482448\t所以我們要設定的是叫做\n500368\t519466\t統籌分配稅款分配委員會,委員會的部分就會讓財政部跟地方政府有相關討論的過程,而且讓財政部保留他們可以調節所謂的一般性補助款,調節他們的統籌分配稅款,所以民眾黨版本沒有訂建,但是要討論。\n522068\t537601\t我們在上個會期在財政委員會做了一個很好的決議希望你們提出自己的版本我現在只有簡單的問行政院是不打算提版本嗎還是要等黨團協商還是要破釜沉舟還是要垂死掙扎\n538605\t568065\t跟委員說明一下,非常贊成委員剛剛提到,第一個財政收支劃分法這件事情,第一個我們的前提,第一個要兼顧地方財政需求,而且要維新中央的一個政經來因應緊急的需要,我們也都在努力當中,那您提到的是垂直分配,那水平分配的部分事實上它更重要,因為涉及到同一方政府的分配,所以我們也召開會議,然後有更大集約一個更大的一個共識,這都在努力當中。\n568285\t573311\t這三個問題跟委員報告,行政院的版本在沒有更好的之前,我們認為現在是最好的版本。在進入法案審查之前,我們認為現在的版本我們來執行是最有把握的。\n590670\t617058\t將來我希望我們還是透過很誠懇的朝野協商來達到大家共同的共識。 院長我們在財政委員會我想委員都非常善意所以上個會期就希望我們幫的意見告訴了你們我們沒有說硬要怎麼樣但是今年這個會期看起來包括我們的召委會牌我們的版本也在裡面我們也希望你們有版本大家一起討論所以沒有人要強度關山但是\n618263\t646735\t行政院不能假裝沒看見這件事情假設在立法院通過你們又要再來搞一次復議嗎還是要再來搞一次釋憲呢我們希望在討論的過程當中不要再製造朝野的對立我們要希望你們好好來討論朝野黨團好好的協商那行政院也能在適當的機會表達我們跟大院裡面的共同的討論沒錯所以拜託如果部長可以的話你說的水平分配你們認為有爭議的部分就拿到立法院來討論好嗎\n650815\t676260\t主委請回主委上來就是院長我們還是要強調臺灣現在的融資公司其實叫做話外之地融資公司只要他有做公司登記任何公司都可以借錢給別人因為公司法只有規定40%以內資本額他就可以\n679280\t705599\t所以我們現在坊間的融資公司各種樣態﹖大大小小﹖假買賣、徵貸款這種狀況非常的嚴重。今年起訴了兩個士官兵洩密去抵債。為什麼?因為他們去跟不法的或者是不知道哪裡來的所謂的融資公司借錢。還不出來就幹嘛?回去偷機密。\n706590\t729124\t這是很嚴重的,剛剛我們講我們的國家安全很重要,然後我們的士官兵竟然用洩密來抵債,這個融資公司已經不單單只是社會問題了,它可能還是國家安全問題。另外這個部分就是我們主委也跟你談論過,我們台灣調查過的年輕世代的金融素養,\n730492\t749045\t第一根極低竟然高達百分之八十一也就是大家不知道怎麼理財大家不知道要到哪裡去找到合法的融資管道然後甚至剛剛講的即使他已經是國軍官兵了他受了教育可能也不讓他不知道去哪裡借錢去借到了不該借的錢\n750799\t773741\t更嚴重的是我們國軍的軍紀有一個規定嚴禁國軍向不法機構執押、執銷或營內籌組或聚會等情勢也就是說國軍不可以隨便去亂借錢也不可以去做一些執銷或者是說在裡面搞錢的事情但是我想問的是主委請問什麼叫做不法機構\n775557\t789183\t報告委員 剛剛我講 全臺灣的公司只要是公司登記的就可以借錢 他是不是不法機構 是報告委員 其實有關融資註定公司在民國85年大家就開始討論到這個問題 到現在已經快30年 可見他的問題的複雜度很嚴重\n791664\t821007\t像剛才提到就是說我們現在因為我們在銀行法或是在法律上融資借款並不是特許的業務是因為不是特許一般公司只要有符合登記他就可以做這個所謂的收賬款買賣之類的業務院長這就是我要今天提出來的這個事情很嚴重嚴重到說用放貸做掩護然後要求收集個資引發軍人洩密而且軍人很容易借到錢只要你說你是軍人每個公司都會借你錢為什麼很穩定\n822261\t823558\t一定會反。 對不對?\n824273\t844206\t對這也是我們金管會也觀察到這個問題也也也承蒙很多委員你要跟國防部好好討論一下最重要的是我今天的訴求還是很簡單我們要加強管理非金融機構的民間放貸行為這才是今天問題的嚴重性我們之前講有三家影子銀行三大租賃公司\n855013\t881720\t主委,我很清楚你的主張。 院長,主委想做,你要不要支持他做?當然支持,我非常支持彭珠在這個方面提出的方法。那我現在就講,在96年的時候張俊雄院長的時候已經訂了融資公司專法,而且當時就以金管會為管理機關。 這件事情我相信主委也非常認真。\n882640\t911756\t然後我們看到全世界國家裡面大部分都會成立專責機關目前只有臺灣沒有臺灣是一個經濟部要關幾十萬家公司的人在管所謂的融資處理公司他等於沒管其實金管會有一些比較替代性的方案正在執行中那我們未來希望能更具體的來做這件事情主委我希望訂專法這個專法同樣的民眾黨我們已經提了版本我相信民進黨團裡面有非常的委員也很重視這件事院長支持金管會把他納管\n912506\t938093\t我支持首先必須納管,再來可以考慮各種形式的專法,將來加強他的登記條件以及他的審核,要嚴審。院長,可不可以在一個月之內給我一個初步的回應,把你剛剛所說的方向跟接下去要納管,我希望至少要納管到幾件事。第一個,這裡的資格,資金的準備,從業人員的資格,還有信用管制跟放貸條件,最重要的是違約金的上限。\n938753\t956814\t報告委員,剛剛說的都是軍管會最近跟我說明的內容,我希望它在完整之後,我們將...好,謝謝黃委員。好,謝謝卓院長。林柱英委員之質詢以...\n","txt":"好謝謝主席好謝謝主席我想請卓院長、金管會彭主委、財政部莊部長以及央行楊總裁我們以上的長官請備詢\n黃委員好院長好還有三位首長好我想這幾天大家都看到了中國對台灣的步步進逼現在的軍演還有貿易戰法律戰其實出招不斷雖然今天只有財政部門我現在要問一下院長這幾天看到這個演習當然現在的侵擾已經是每一天都發生那我最關心的是我們金融上面\n相關的應對也就是在烏克蘭戰爭最大的問題是他先做了一些金融上面的破壞但是還好人家有做準備我想問的是今年3月的時候我們金融研訓院說要加強兵推然後部長在3月份的回答是去年有做過我想問一下我們的金融兵推做好準備了沒有院長\n好,謝謝委員。這真的是一個不平靜的時代,從烏克蘭戰爭到中東的衝突,那麼中國又適宜的隨時的在台灣的周遭進行任何大大小小的這個狀況。這個已經不奇怪了,現在是未來可能的就是金融上面的破壞,尤其是在烏克蘭戰爭發生之前,就做了一些金融體系的恐嚇。\n甚至發動假的訊息說給所有的烏克蘭人的手機說ATM領到錢了這件事情會不會在臺灣發生我們做好準備就拿昨天的例子昨天早上總統一早召開了國安高層會議聽取各方報告之後做了重要的指示隨後行政院也希望回來之後通令各部會我們希望在這個股會是經濟民生\n還有治安方面,尤其治安可能就跟委員所說的,我們希望臺灣的所有的跟民生相關的,或者重要基礎設施,任何的治安的保全都要非常的盡到狀況。 委員長,我只關心今天只要回答我,金融兵推去年10月12日有做,今年做了沒?做好準備了沒?還是你們已經有相關的答案,非常穩,非常已經有把握不需要再做了?\n對,還沒有做今年都沒有做嗎?沒錯\n所以院長其實我現在的問題是發生事情因為現在有點像狼來了每天演習演到最後大家心理上面就沒有戒心了第二個他如果真的要發動動作的時候比如說他真的發了假簡訊告訴大家說ATM領不到錢\n臺灣人可能有人會相信那這個部分其實政府要增強人民的信心而且要有建立正確的管道這個部分的金融兵推我覺得現在要做而且平常就要教育我們的民眾從現在開始可能金融上面的第一關是每個民眾都非常在意的\n你看,烏克蘭發生災難第一件事情大家就是幹嘛?領錢,然後討難。 這兩件事情會是第一,優先。 所以這個部分,金融兵推,去年做過,今年可能還沒有完成。 那院長上任,我希望,是不是變成常態性的。 第二個,是不是有具體的兵推之後的檢討跟相關的精進的作業,甚至我希望開始要增加人民的信心。\n好,跟我們報告,這個包括重要的基礎,關鍵基礎設施,民生維生系統,通訊系統,以及金融系統,交通系統,這個都是在我們全社會任性防衛當中,我們都會把它當作非常重要的事情來處理。我同意啊,因為我們,我在財政委員會啊,最關心的是我們三大龍頭,我們自己能不能先穩健,第二個,\n一戰爭就要增加軍費﹖人民要繳更多的稅﹖第三個我們的錢夠不夠﹖我們有沒有準備好這些軍費﹖這才是我們關心的﹖好嗎那委員說最近以來這種軍艦、軍機﹖各種的演習很多、狀況很多﹖來的時候我們不慌不亂﹖沒有的時候我們也做好所有的準備﹖也不會任何的放鬆。 請委員放鬆。院長我希望金融兵推在你上任之後我可以看到第一次的金融兵推好嗎\n我會跟部長跟總裁我們怎麼樣讓國人安心表達我們已經做好了充分的準備,這個謝謝委員的提醒。\n每次院長我都會問同樣的問題啊財政收支劃分法從您上任第一次的總質詢還有部長我們在財政委員會其實講的非常多次那現在國民黨團他們也提出他們的修正版本將要靠攏民進民眾黨版本也就是我們上一次所提的這個修正案那目前為止我想只問你一句話\n行政院要不要休?休還是不休?你們要不要提出自己的版本?兩點跟委員報告。第一,我們認為現在的版本具執行是行政院最有把握的。不是,你上次跟我說的嘛,已經是最佳的共識了。對,對,對。就25年來,現在是最好的狀況。\n我們認為現在的版本來執行是我們最有把握的﹖而且我們會持續對地方政府做更多的補助﹖第二點呢﹖所以院長﹖你認為只要按照大有為的政府來決定就好﹖所以不需要入法﹖不需要制度化﹖就是按照你們現在的版本就是最好的版本﹖不是大有為的政府﹖之前陳水扁、蔡英文跟賴清德所說才化法要修正﹖他們是導彈鬼囉﹖\n不是,這是這個時代的不同,時間的不同,我們各有不同的考量。時間的不同,我們只是希望把你講的最好的辦法入法而已。你現在所說的最好的辦法,我們希望它制度化、明確化,而不是單純的按照行政院自己的意志,而地方政府沒有參與的機會。沒有沒有,我剛剛只說了一點,我還有第二點,就是現在立法院的氣氛正朝向更好的方向發展。\n我知道最近要展開草野協商我覺得這個事情也可以來進行草野協商重要的一部分那這個至於內容我想部長非常努力在溝通在收集在了解各方的意見沒錯院長我們就是要告訴你我們真的很希望這是民眾黨的版本我們很清楚的把垂直分配的金額跟數量都寫出來所以民眾黨的原則很簡單\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n所以我們要設定的是叫做\n統籌分配稅款分配委員會,委員會的部分就會讓財政部跟地方政府有相關討論的過程,而且讓財政部保留他們可以調節所謂的一般性補助款,調節他們的統籌分配稅款,所以民眾黨版本沒有訂建,但是要討論。\n我們在上個會期在財政委員會做了一個很好的決議希望你們提出自己的版本我現在只有簡單的問行政院是不打算提版本嗎還是要等黨團協商還是要破釜沉舟還是要垂死掙扎\n跟委員說明一下,非常贊成委員剛剛提到,第一個財政收支劃分法這件事情,第一個我們的前提,第一個要兼顧地方財政需求,而且要維新中央的一個政經來因應緊急的需要,我們也都在努力當中,那您提到的是垂直分配,那水平分配的部分事實上它更重要,因為涉及到同一方政府的分配,所以我們也召開會議,然後有更大集約一個更大的一個共識,這都在努力當中。\n這三個問題跟委員報告,行政院的版本在沒有更好的之前,我們認為現在是最好的版本。在進入法案審查之前,我們認為現在的版本我們來執行是最有把握的。\n將來我希望我們還是透過很誠懇的朝野協商來達到大家共同的共識。 院長我們在財政委員會我想委員都非常善意所以上個會期就希望我們幫的意見告訴了你們我們沒有說硬要怎麼樣但是今年這個會期看起來包括我們的召委會牌我們的版本也在裡面我們也希望你們有版本大家一起討論所以沒有人要強度關山但是\n行政院不能假裝沒看見這件事情假設在立法院通過你們又要再來搞一次復議嗎還是要再來搞一次釋憲呢我們希望在討論的過程當中不要再製造朝野的對立我們要希望你們好好來討論朝野黨團好好的協商那行政院也能在適當的機會表達我們跟大院裡面的共同的討論沒錯所以拜託如果部長可以的話你說的水平分配你們認為有爭議的部分就拿到立法院來討論好嗎\n主委請回主委上來就是院長我們還是要強調臺灣現在的融資公司其實叫做話外之地融資公司只要他有做公司登記任何公司都可以借錢給別人因為公司法只有規定40%以內資本額他就可以\n所以我們現在坊間的融資公司各種樣態﹖大大小小﹖假買賣、徵貸款這種狀況非常的嚴重。今年起訴了兩個士官兵洩密去抵債。為什麼?因為他們去跟不法的或者是不知道哪裡來的所謂的融資公司借錢。還不出來就幹嘛?回去偷機密。\n這是很嚴重的,剛剛我們講我們的國家安全很重要,然後我們的士官兵竟然用洩密來抵債,這個融資公司已經不單單只是社會問題了,它可能還是國家安全問題。另外這個部分就是我們主委也跟你談論過,我們台灣調查過的年輕世代的金融素養,\n第一根極低竟然高達百分之八十一也就是大家不知道怎麼理財大家不知道要到哪裡去找到合法的融資管道然後甚至剛剛講的即使他已經是國軍官兵了他受了教育可能也不讓他不知道去哪裡借錢去借到了不該借的錢\n更嚴重的是我們國軍的軍紀有一個規定嚴禁國軍向不法機構執押、執銷或營內籌組或聚會等情勢也就是說國軍不可以隨便去亂借錢也不可以去做一些執銷或者是說在裡面搞錢的事情但是我想問的是主委請問什麼叫做不法機構\n報告委員 剛剛我講 全臺灣的公司只要是公司登記的就可以借錢 他是不是不法機構 是報告委員 其實有關融資註定公司在民國85年大家就開始討論到這個問題 到現在已經快30年 可見他的問題的複雜度很嚴重\n像剛才提到就是說我們現在因為我們在銀行法或是在法律上融資借款並不是特許的業務是因為不是特許一般公司只要有符合登記他就可以做這個所謂的收賬款買賣之類的業務院長這就是我要今天提出來的這個事情很嚴重嚴重到說用放貸做掩護然後要求收集個資引發軍人洩密而且軍人很容易借到錢只要你說你是軍人每個公司都會借你錢為什麼很穩定\n一定會反。 對不對?\n對這也是我們金管會也觀察到這個問題也也也承蒙很多委員你要跟國防部好好討論一下最重要的是我今天的訴求還是很簡單我們要加強管理非金融機構的民間放貸行為這才是今天問題的嚴重性我們之前講有三家影子銀行三大租賃公司\n主委,我很清楚你的主張。 院長,主委想做,你要不要支持他做?當然支持,我非常支持彭珠在這個方面提出的方法。那我現在就講,在96年的時候張俊雄院長的時候已經訂了融資公司專法,而且當時就以金管會為管理機關。 這件事情我相信主委也非常認真。\n然後我們看到全世界國家裡面大部分都會成立專責機關目前只有臺灣沒有臺灣是一個經濟部要關幾十萬家公司的人在管所謂的融資處理公司他等於沒管其實金管會有一些比較替代性的方案正在執行中那我們未來希望能更具體的來做這件事情主委我希望訂專法這個專法同樣的民眾黨我們已經提了版本我相信民進黨團裡面有非常的委員也很重視這件事院長支持金管會把他納管\n我支持首先必須納管,再來可以考慮各種形式的專法,將來加強他的登記條件以及他的審核,要嚴審。院長,可不可以在一個月之內給我一個初步的回應,把你剛剛所說的方向跟接下去要納管,我希望至少要納管到幾件事。第一個,這裡的資格,資金的準備,從業人員的資格,還有信用管制跟放貸條件,最重要的是違約金的上限。\n報告委員,剛剛說的都是軍管會最近跟我說明的內容,我希望它在完整之後,我們將...好,謝謝黃委員。好,謝謝卓院長。林柱英委員之質詢以...\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.008 --> 00:19.934\n好謝謝主席好謝謝主席我想請卓院長、金管會彭主委、財政部莊部長以及央行楊總裁我們以上的長官請備詢\n\n00:41.585 --> 01:08.644\n黃委員好院長好還有三位首長好我想這幾天大家都看到了中國對台灣的步步進逼現在的軍演還有貿易戰法律戰其實出招不斷雖然今天只有財政部門我現在要問一下院長這幾天看到這個演習當然現在的侵擾已經是每一天都發生那我最關心的是我們金融上面\n\n01:09.850 --> 01:35.433\n相關的應對也就是在烏克蘭戰爭最大的問題是他先做了一些金融上面的破壞但是還好人家有做準備我想問的是今年3月的時候我們金融研訓院說要加強兵推然後部長在3月份的回答是去年有做過我想問一下我們的金融兵推做好準備了沒有院長\n\n01:36.769 --> 02:04.178\n好,謝謝委員。這真的是一個不平靜的時代,從烏克蘭戰爭到中東的衝突,那麼中國又適宜的隨時的在台灣的周遭進行任何大大小小的這個狀況。這個已經不奇怪了,現在是未來可能的就是金融上面的破壞,尤其是在烏克蘭戰爭發生之前,就做了一些金融體系的恐嚇。\n\n02:04.978 --> 02:29.739\n甚至發動假的訊息說給所有的烏克蘭人的手機說ATM領到錢了這件事情會不會在臺灣發生我們做好準備就拿昨天的例子昨天早上總統一早召開了國安高層會議聽取各方報告之後做了重要的指示隨後行政院也希望回來之後通令各部會我們希望在這個股會是經濟民生\n\n02:31.761 --> 02:54.549\n還有治安方面,尤其治安可能就跟委員所說的,我們希望臺灣的所有的跟民生相關的,或者重要基礎設施,任何的治安的保全都要非常的盡到狀況。委員長,我只關心今天只要回答我,金融兵推去年10月12日有做,今年做了沒?做好準備了沒?還是你們已經有相關的答案,非常穩,非常已經有把握不需要再做了?\n\n02:55.250 --> 02:56.671\n對,還沒有做今年都沒有做嗎?沒錯\n\n03:21.767 --> 03:36.805\n所以院長其實我現在的問題是發生事情因為現在有點像狼來了每天演習演到最後大家心理上面就沒有戒心了第二個他如果真的要發動動作的時候比如說他真的發了假簡訊告訴大家說ATM領不到錢\n\n03:39.063 --> 03:57.405\n臺灣人可能有人會相信那這個部分其實政府要增強人民的信心而且要有建立正確的管道這個部分的金融兵推我覺得現在要做而且平常就要教育我們的民眾從現在開始可能金融上面的第一關是每個民眾都非常在意的\n\n03:58.326 --> 04:23.704\n你看,烏克蘭發生災難第一件事情大家就是幹嘛?領錢,然後討難。這兩件事情會是第一,優先。所以這個部分,金融兵推,去年做過,今年可能還沒有完成。那院長上任,我希望,是不是變成常態性的。第二個,是不是有具體的兵推之後的檢討跟相關的精進的作業,甚至我希望開始要增加人民的信心。\n\n04:24.144 --> 04:47.719\n好,跟我們報告,這個包括重要的基礎,關鍵基礎設施,民生維生系統,通訊系統,以及金融系統,交通系統,這個都是在我們全社會任性防衛當中,我們都會把它當作非常重要的事情來處理。我同意啊,因為我們,我在財政委員會啊,最關心的是我們三大龍頭,我們自己能不能先穩健,第二個,\n\n04:48.519 --> 05:14.264\n一戰爭就要增加軍費﹖人民要繳更多的稅﹖第三個我們的錢夠不夠﹖我們有沒有準備好這些軍費﹖這才是我們關心的﹖好嗎那委員說最近以來這種軍艦、軍機﹖各種的演習很多、狀況很多﹖來的時候我們不慌不亂﹖沒有的時候我們也做好所有的準備﹖也不會任何的放鬆。請委員放鬆。院長我希望金融兵推在你上任之後我可以看到第一次的金融兵推好嗎\n\n05:15.024 --> 05:16.946\n我會跟部長跟總裁我們怎麼樣讓國人安心表達我們已經做好了充分的準備,這個謝謝委員的提醒。\n\n05:39.093 --> 06:01.938\n每次院長我都會問同樣的問題啊財政收支劃分法從您上任第一次的總質詢還有部長我們在財政委員會其實講的非常多次那現在國民黨團他們也提出他們的修正版本將要靠攏民進民眾黨版本也就是我們上一次所提的這個修正案那目前為止我想只問你一句話\n\n06:02.598 --> 06:18.620\n行政院要不要休?休還是不休?你們要不要提出自己的版本?兩點跟委員報告。第一,我們認為現在的版本具執行是行政院最有把握的。不是,你上次跟我說的嘛,已經是最佳的共識了。對,對,對。就25年來,現在是最好的狀況。\n\n06:19.321 --> 06:44.214\n我們認為現在的版本來執行是我們最有把握的﹖而且我們會持續對地方政府做更多的補助﹖第二點呢﹖所以院長﹖你認為只要按照大有為的政府來決定就好﹖所以不需要入法﹖不需要制度化﹖就是按照你們現在的版本就是最好的版本﹖不是大有為的政府﹖之前陳水扁、蔡英文跟賴清德所說才化法要修正﹖他們是導彈鬼囉﹖\n\n06:45.808 --> 07:10.606\n不是,這是這個時代的不同,時間的不同,我們各有不同的考量。時間的不同,我們只是希望把你講的最好的辦法入法而已。你現在所說的最好的辦法,我們希望它制度化、明確化,而不是單純的按照行政院自己的意志,而地方政府沒有參與的機會。沒有沒有,我剛剛只說了一點,我還有第二點,就是現在立法院的氣氛正朝向更好的方向發展。\n\n07:11.707 --> 07:35.175\n我知道最近要展開草野協商我覺得這個事情也可以來進行草野協商重要的一部分那這個至於內容我想部長非常努力在溝通在收集在了解各方的意見沒錯院長我們就是要告訴你我們真的很希望這是民眾黨的版本我們很清楚的把垂直分配的金額跟數量都寫出來所以民眾黨的原則很簡單\n\n07:36.015 --> 07:40.179\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n08:02.108 --> 08:02.448\n所以我們要設定的是叫做\n\n08:20.368 --> 08:39.466\n統籌分配稅款分配委員會,委員會的部分就會讓財政部跟地方政府有相關討論的過程,而且讓財政部保留他們可以調節所謂的一般性補助款,調節他們的統籌分配稅款,所以民眾黨版本沒有訂建,但是要討論。\n\n08:42.068 --> 08:57.601\n我們在上個會期在財政委員會做了一個很好的決議希望你們提出自己的版本我現在只有簡單的問行政院是不打算提版本嗎還是要等黨團協商還是要破釜沉舟還是要垂死掙扎\n\n08:58.605 --> 09:28.065\n跟委員說明一下,非常贊成委員剛剛提到,第一個財政收支劃分法這件事情,第一個我們的前提,第一個要兼顧地方財政需求,而且要維新中央的一個政經來因應緊急的需要,我們也都在努力當中,那您提到的是垂直分配,那水平分配的部分事實上它更重要,因為涉及到同一方政府的分配,所以我們也召開會議,然後有更大集約一個更大的一個共識,這都在努力當中。\n\n09:28.285 --> 09:33.311\n這三個問題跟委員報告,行政院的版本在沒有更好的之前,我們認為現在是最好的版本。在進入法案審查之前,我們認為現在的版本我們來執行是最有把握的。\n\n09:50.670 --> 10:17.058\n將來我希望我們還是透過很誠懇的朝野協商來達到大家共同的共識。院長我們在財政委員會我想委員都非常善意所以上個會期就希望我們幫的意見告訴了你們我們沒有說硬要怎麼樣但是今年這個會期看起來包括我們的召委會牌我們的版本也在裡面我們也希望你們有版本大家一起討論所以沒有人要強度關山但是\n\n10:18.263 --> 10:46.735\n行政院不能假裝沒看見這件事情假設在立法院通過你們又要再來搞一次復議嗎還是要再來搞一次釋憲呢我們希望在討論的過程當中不要再製造朝野的對立我們要希望你們好好來討論朝野黨團好好的協商那行政院也能在適當的機會表達我們跟大院裡面的共同的討論沒錯所以拜託如果部長可以的話你說的水平分配你們認為有爭議的部分就拿到立法院來討論好嗎\n\n10:50.815 --> 11:16.260\n主委請回主委上來就是院長我們還是要強調臺灣現在的融資公司其實叫做話外之地融資公司只要他有做公司登記任何公司都可以借錢給別人因為公司法只有規定40%以內資本額他就可以\n\n11:19.280 --> 11:45.599\n所以我們現在坊間的融資公司各種樣態﹖大大小小﹖假買賣、徵貸款這種狀況非常的嚴重。今年起訴了兩個士官兵洩密去抵債。為什麼?因為他們去跟不法的或者是不知道哪裡來的所謂的融資公司借錢。還不出來就幹嘛?回去偷機密。\n\n11:46.590 --> 12:09.124\n這是很嚴重的,剛剛我們講我們的國家安全很重要,然後我們的士官兵竟然用洩密來抵債,這個融資公司已經不單單只是社會問題了,它可能還是國家安全問題。另外這個部分就是我們主委也跟你談論過,我們台灣調查過的年輕世代的金融素養,\n\n12:10.492 --> 12:29.045\n第一根極低竟然高達百分之八十一也就是大家不知道怎麼理財大家不知道要到哪裡去找到合法的融資管道然後甚至剛剛講的即使他已經是國軍官兵了他受了教育可能也不讓他不知道去哪裡借錢去借到了不該借的錢\n\n12:30.799 --> 12:53.741\n更嚴重的是我們國軍的軍紀有一個規定嚴禁國軍向不法機構執押、執銷或營內籌組或聚會等情勢也就是說國軍不可以隨便去亂借錢也不可以去做一些執銷或者是說在裡面搞錢的事情但是我想問的是主委請問什麼叫做不法機構\n\n12:55.557 --> 13:09.183\n報告委員剛剛我講全臺灣的公司只要是公司登記的就可以借錢他是不是不法機構是報告委員其實有關融資註定公司在民國85年大家就開始討論到這個問題到現在已經快30年可見他的問題的複雜度很嚴重\n\n13:11.664 --> 13:41.007\n像剛才提到就是說我們現在因為我們在銀行法或是在法律上融資借款並不是特許的業務是因為不是特許一般公司只要有符合登記他就可以做這個所謂的收賬款買賣之類的業務院長這就是我要今天提出來的這個事情很嚴重嚴重到說用放貸做掩護然後要求收集個資引發軍人洩密而且軍人很容易借到錢只要你說你是軍人每個公司都會借你錢為什麼很穩定\n\n13:42.261 --> 13:43.558\n一定會反。對不對?\n\n13:44.273 --> 14:04.206\n對這也是我們金管會也觀察到這個問題也也也承蒙很多委員你要跟國防部好好討論一下最重要的是我今天的訴求還是很簡單我們要加強管理非金融機構的民間放貸行為這才是今天問題的嚴重性我們之前講有三家影子銀行三大租賃公司\n\n14:15.013 --> 14:41.720\n主委,我很清楚你的主張。院長,主委想做,你要不要支持他做?當然支持,我非常支持彭珠在這個方面提出的方法。那我現在就講,在96年的時候張俊雄院長的時候已經訂了融資公司專法,而且當時就以金管會為管理機關。這件事情我相信主委也非常認真。\n\n14:42.640 --> 15:11.756\n然後我們看到全世界國家裡面大部分都會成立專責機關目前只有臺灣沒有臺灣是一個經濟部要關幾十萬家公司的人在管所謂的融資處理公司他等於沒管其實金管會有一些比較替代性的方案正在執行中那我們未來希望能更具體的來做這件事情主委我希望訂專法這個專法同樣的民眾黨我們已經提了版本我相信民進黨團裡面有非常的委員也很重視這件事院長支持金管會把他納管\n\n15:12.506 --> 15:38.093\n我支持首先必須納管,再來可以考慮各種形式的專法,將來加強他的登記條件以及他的審核,要嚴審。院長,可不可以在一個月之內給我一個初步的回應,把你剛剛所說的方向跟接下去要納管,我希望至少要納管到幾件事。第一個,這裡的資格,資金的準備,從業人員的資格,還有信用管制跟放貸條件,最重要的是違約金的上限。\n\n15:38.753 --> 15:56.814\n報告委員,剛剛說的都是軍管會最近跟我說明的內容,我希望它在完整之後,我們將...好,謝謝黃委員。好,謝謝卓院長。林柱英委員之質詢以...\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.008,"end":19.934,"text":"好謝謝主席好謝謝主席我想請卓院長、金管會彭主委、財政部莊部長以及央行楊總裁我們以上的長官請備詢"},{"start":41.585,"end":68.644,"text":"黃委員好院長好還有三位首長好我想這幾天大家都看到了中國對台灣的步步進逼現在的軍演還有貿易戰法律戰其實出招不斷雖然今天只有財政部門我現在要問一下院長這幾天看到這個演習當然現在的侵擾已經是每一天都發生那我最關心的是我們金融上面"},{"start":69.85,"end":95.433,"text":"相關的應對也就是在烏克蘭戰爭最大的問題是他先做了一些金融上面的破壞但是還好人家有做準備我想問的是今年3月的時候我們金融研訓院說要加強兵推然後部長在3月份的回答是去年有做過我想問一下我們的金融兵推做好準備了沒有院長"},{"start":96.769,"end":124.178,"text":"好,謝謝委員。這真的是一個不平靜的時代,從烏克蘭戰爭到中東的衝突,那麼中國又適宜的隨時的在台灣的周遭進行任何大大小小的這個狀況。這個已經不奇怪了,現在是未來可能的就是金融上面的破壞,尤其是在烏克蘭戰爭發生之前,就做了一些金融體系的恐嚇。"},{"start":124.978,"end":149.739,"text":"甚至發動假的訊息說給所有的烏克蘭人的手機說ATM領到錢了這件事情會不會在臺灣發生我們做好準備就拿昨天的例子昨天早上總統一早召開了國安高層會議聽取各方報告之後做了重要的指示隨後行政院也希望回來之後通令各部會我們希望在這個股會是經濟民生"},{"start":151.761,"end":174.549,"text":"還有治安方面,尤其治安可能就跟委員所說的,我們希望臺灣的所有的跟民生相關的,或者重要基礎設施,任何的治安的保全都要非常的盡到狀況。 委員長,我只關心今天只要回答我,金融兵推去年10月12日有做,今年做了沒?做好準備了沒?還是你們已經有相關的答案,非常穩,非常已經有把握不需要再做了?"},{"start":175.25,"end":176.671,"text":"對,還沒有做今年都沒有做嗎?沒錯"},{"start":201.767,"end":216.805,"text":"所以院長其實我現在的問題是發生事情因為現在有點像狼來了每天演習演到最後大家心理上面就沒有戒心了第二個他如果真的要發動動作的時候比如說他真的發了假簡訊告訴大家說ATM領不到錢"},{"start":219.063,"end":237.405,"text":"臺灣人可能有人會相信那這個部分其實政府要增強人民的信心而且要有建立正確的管道這個部分的金融兵推我覺得現在要做而且平常就要教育我們的民眾從現在開始可能金融上面的第一關是每個民眾都非常在意的"},{"start":238.326,"end":263.704,"text":"你看,烏克蘭發生災難第一件事情大家就是幹嘛?領錢,然後討難。 這兩件事情會是第一,優先。 所以這個部分,金融兵推,去年做過,今年可能還沒有完成。 那院長上任,我希望,是不是變成常態性的。 第二個,是不是有具體的兵推之後的檢討跟相關的精進的作業,甚至我希望開始要增加人民的信心。"},{"start":264.144,"end":287.719,"text":"好,跟我們報告,這個包括重要的基礎,關鍵基礎設施,民生維生系統,通訊系統,以及金融系統,交通系統,這個都是在我們全社會任性防衛當中,我們都會把它當作非常重要的事情來處理。我同意啊,因為我們,我在財政委員會啊,最關心的是我們三大龍頭,我們自己能不能先穩健,第二個,"},{"start":288.519,"end":314.264,"text":"一戰爭就要增加軍費﹖人民要繳更多的稅﹖第三個我們的錢夠不夠﹖我們有沒有準備好這些軍費﹖這才是我們關心的﹖好嗎那委員說最近以來這種軍艦、軍機﹖各種的演習很多、狀況很多﹖來的時候我們不慌不亂﹖沒有的時候我們也做好所有的準備﹖也不會任何的放鬆。 請委員放鬆。院長我希望金融兵推在你上任之後我可以看到第一次的金融兵推好嗎"},{"start":315.024,"end":316.946,"text":"我會跟部長跟總裁我們怎麼樣讓國人安心表達我們已經做好了充分的準備,這個謝謝委員的提醒。"},{"start":339.093,"end":361.938,"text":"每次院長我都會問同樣的問題啊財政收支劃分法從您上任第一次的總質詢還有部長我們在財政委員會其實講的非常多次那現在國民黨團他們也提出他們的修正版本將要靠攏民進民眾黨版本也就是我們上一次所提的這個修正案那目前為止我想只問你一句話"},{"start":362.598,"end":378.62,"text":"行政院要不要休?休還是不休?你們要不要提出自己的版本?兩點跟委員報告。第一,我們認為現在的版本具執行是行政院最有把握的。不是,你上次跟我說的嘛,已經是最佳的共識了。對,對,對。就25年來,現在是最好的狀況。"},{"start":379.321,"end":404.214,"text":"我們認為現在的版本來執行是我們最有把握的﹖而且我們會持續對地方政府做更多的補助﹖第二點呢﹖所以院長﹖你認為只要按照大有為的政府來決定就好﹖所以不需要入法﹖不需要制度化﹖就是按照你們現在的版本就是最好的版本﹖不是大有為的政府﹖之前陳水扁、蔡英文跟賴清德所說才化法要修正﹖他們是導彈鬼囉﹖"},{"start":405.808,"end":430.606,"text":"不是,這是這個時代的不同,時間的不同,我們各有不同的考量。時間的不同,我們只是希望把你講的最好的辦法入法而已。你現在所說的最好的辦法,我們希望它制度化、明確化,而不是單純的按照行政院自己的意志,而地方政府沒有參與的機會。沒有沒有,我剛剛只說了一點,我還有第二點,就是現在立法院的氣氛正朝向更好的方向發展。"},{"start":431.707,"end":455.175,"text":"我知道最近要展開草野協商我覺得這個事情也可以來進行草野協商重要的一部分那這個至於內容我想部長非常努力在溝通在收集在了解各方的意見沒錯院長我們就是要告訴你我們真的很希望這是民眾黨的版本我們很清楚的把垂直分配的金額跟數量都寫出來所以民眾黨的原則很簡單"},{"start":456.015,"end":460.179,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":482.108,"end":482.448,"text":"所以我們要設定的是叫做"},{"start":500.368,"end":519.466,"text":"統籌分配稅款分配委員會,委員會的部分就會讓財政部跟地方政府有相關討論的過程,而且讓財政部保留他們可以調節所謂的一般性補助款,調節他們的統籌分配稅款,所以民眾黨版本沒有訂建,但是要討論。"},{"start":522.068,"end":537.601,"text":"我們在上個會期在財政委員會做了一個很好的決議希望你們提出自己的版本我現在只有簡單的問行政院是不打算提版本嗎還是要等黨團協商還是要破釜沉舟還是要垂死掙扎"},{"start":538.605,"end":568.065,"text":"跟委員說明一下,非常贊成委員剛剛提到,第一個財政收支劃分法這件事情,第一個我們的前提,第一個要兼顧地方財政需求,而且要維新中央的一個政經來因應緊急的需要,我們也都在努力當中,那您提到的是垂直分配,那水平分配的部分事實上它更重要,因為涉及到同一方政府的分配,所以我們也召開會議,然後有更大集約一個更大的一個共識,這都在努力當中。"},{"start":568.285,"end":573.311,"text":"這三個問題跟委員報告,行政院的版本在沒有更好的之前,我們認為現在是最好的版本。在進入法案審查之前,我們認為現在的版本我們來執行是最有把握的。"},{"start":590.67,"end":617.058,"text":"將來我希望我們還是透過很誠懇的朝野協商來達到大家共同的共識。 院長我們在財政委員會我想委員都非常善意所以上個會期就希望我們幫的意見告訴了你們我們沒有說硬要怎麼樣但是今年這個會期看起來包括我們的召委會牌我們的版本也在裡面我們也希望你們有版本大家一起討論所以沒有人要強度關山但是"},{"start":618.263,"end":646.735,"text":"行政院不能假裝沒看見這件事情假設在立法院通過你們又要再來搞一次復議嗎還是要再來搞一次釋憲呢我們希望在討論的過程當中不要再製造朝野的對立我們要希望你們好好來討論朝野黨團好好的協商那行政院也能在適當的機會表達我們跟大院裡面的共同的討論沒錯所以拜託如果部長可以的話你說的水平分配你們認為有爭議的部分就拿到立法院來討論好嗎"},{"start":650.815,"end":676.26,"text":"主委請回主委上來就是院長我們還是要強調臺灣現在的融資公司其實叫做話外之地融資公司只要他有做公司登記任何公司都可以借錢給別人因為公司法只有規定40%以內資本額他就可以"},{"start":679.28,"end":705.599,"text":"所以我們現在坊間的融資公司各種樣態﹖大大小小﹖假買賣、徵貸款這種狀況非常的嚴重。今年起訴了兩個士官兵洩密去抵債。為什麼?因為他們去跟不法的或者是不知道哪裡來的所謂的融資公司借錢。還不出來就幹嘛?回去偷機密。"},{"start":706.59,"end":729.124,"text":"這是很嚴重的,剛剛我們講我們的國家安全很重要,然後我們的士官兵竟然用洩密來抵債,這個融資公司已經不單單只是社會問題了,它可能還是國家安全問題。另外這個部分就是我們主委也跟你談論過,我們台灣調查過的年輕世代的金融素養,"},{"start":730.492,"end":749.045,"text":"第一根極低竟然高達百分之八十一也就是大家不知道怎麼理財大家不知道要到哪裡去找到合法的融資管道然後甚至剛剛講的即使他已經是國軍官兵了他受了教育可能也不讓他不知道去哪裡借錢去借到了不該借的錢"},{"start":750.799,"end":773.741,"text":"更嚴重的是我們國軍的軍紀有一個規定嚴禁國軍向不法機構執押、執銷或營內籌組或聚會等情勢也就是說國軍不可以隨便去亂借錢也不可以去做一些執銷或者是說在裡面搞錢的事情但是我想問的是主委請問什麼叫做不法機構"},{"start":775.557,"end":789.183,"text":"報告委員 剛剛我講 全臺灣的公司只要是公司登記的就可以借錢 他是不是不法機構 是報告委員 其實有關融資註定公司在民國85年大家就開始討論到這個問題 到現在已經快30年 可見他的問題的複雜度很嚴重"},{"start":791.664,"end":821.007,"text":"像剛才提到就是說我們現在因為我們在銀行法或是在法律上融資借款並不是特許的業務是因為不是特許一般公司只要有符合登記他就可以做這個所謂的收賬款買賣之類的業務院長這就是我要今天提出來的這個事情很嚴重嚴重到說用放貸做掩護然後要求收集個資引發軍人洩密而且軍人很容易借到錢只要你說你是軍人每個公司都會借你錢為什麼很穩定"},{"start":822.261,"end":823.558,"text":"一定會反。 對不對?"},{"start":824.273,"end":844.206,"text":"對這也是我們金管會也觀察到這個問題也也也承蒙很多委員你要跟國防部好好討論一下最重要的是我今天的訴求還是很簡單我們要加強管理非金融機構的民間放貸行為這才是今天問題的嚴重性我們之前講有三家影子銀行三大租賃公司"},{"start":855.013,"end":881.72,"text":"主委,我很清楚你的主張。 院長,主委想做,你要不要支持他做?當然支持,我非常支持彭珠在這個方面提出的方法。那我現在就講,在96年的時候張俊雄院長的時候已經訂了融資公司專法,而且當時就以金管會為管理機關。 這件事情我相信主委也非常認真。"},{"start":882.64,"end":911.756,"text":"然後我們看到全世界國家裡面大部分都會成立專責機關目前只有臺灣沒有臺灣是一個經濟部要關幾十萬家公司的人在管所謂的融資處理公司他等於沒管其實金管會有一些比較替代性的方案正在執行中那我們未來希望能更具體的來做這件事情主委我希望訂專法這個專法同樣的民眾黨我們已經提了版本我相信民進黨團裡面有非常的委員也很重視這件事院長支持金管會把他納管"},{"start":912.506,"end":938.093,"text":"我支持首先必須納管,再來可以考慮各種形式的專法,將來加強他的登記條件以及他的審核,要嚴審。院長,可不可以在一個月之內給我一個初步的回應,把你剛剛所說的方向跟接下去要納管,我希望至少要納管到幾件事。第一個,這裡的資格,資金的準備,從業人員的資格,還有信用管制跟放貸條件,最重要的是違約金的上限。"},{"start":938.753,"end":956.814,"text":"報告委員,剛剛說的都是軍管會最近跟我說明的內容,我希望它在完整之後,我們將...好,謝謝黃委員。好,謝謝卓院長。林柱英委員之質詢以..."}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-4","title":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-15T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:00:44 - 09:16:42","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","id":155464,"gazette":{"lineno":18,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（9時）謝謝主席，我想請卓院長、金管會彭主委、財政部莊部長以及央行楊總裁。"],["主席：以上長官請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長好，以及3位首長好。我想這幾天大家都看到了中國對臺灣的步步進逼，現在的軍演以及貿易戰、法律戰其實出招不斷，雖然今天只有財政部門，我現在要問一下院長，這幾天看到演習，當然現在的侵擾已經是每一天都發生，我最關心的是金融上面相關的應對，也就是在烏克蘭戰爭中，最大的問題是它先做了一些金融上面的破壞，但是還好人家有做準備。我想問的是，今年3月的時候，金融研訓院說要加強兵推，然後部長在3月的回答是去年有做過，我想問一下，我們的金融兵推做好準備了沒有，院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，這真的是一個不平靜的時代，從烏俄戰爭到中東衝突，中國又肆意地隨時在臺灣周遭進行任何大大小小的狀況，昨天……"],["黃委員珊珊：這個已經不奇怪了，現在是未來可能在金融上面的破壞，尤其是它在烏克蘭戰爭發生之前，就做了一些金融體系的恐嚇，甚至發動假訊息給所有烏克蘭的手機說ATM領不到錢了，這件事情會不會在臺灣發生？我們做好準備沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：就拿昨天的例子，昨天總統一早召開了國安高層會議，聽取各方報告之後，做了重要的指示，隨後行政院回來之後通令各部會，我們希望在股匯市、經濟、民生以及資安方面，尤其資安，可能就如委員所說的，我們希望臺灣所有跟民生相關的或者重要基礎設施，任何的資安保全都要非常進入狀況，昨天我們就有做……"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，今天只要回答我，金融兵推去年10月、12月有做，今年做了沒？做好準備了沒，還是你們已經有相關的答案，非常穩、已經非常有把握，不需要再做了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得任何的狀況我們都隨時要更新，去年所做的金融兵推，很抱歉我並沒有參與，今年這幾個月下來，除了隨時的警戒之外……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以今年一整年可能還沒有做，部長，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，還沒有做。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告……"],["黃委員珊珊：今年都沒有做嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：相關的兵推是整體性的，有財政部，也有金管會及央行等等，這個部分事實上是我們日常性、經常性的一個業務。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯！院長，其實我現在的問題是，發生事情，因為現在有點像狼來了，每天演習演到最後大家心理上面就沒有戒心了。第二個，它如果真的要發動動作的時候，比如它真的發了假簡訊告訴大家說ATM領不到錢，臺灣人可能有人會相信，這個部分其實政府要增強人民的信心，而且要建立正確的管道。這個部分的金融兵推我覺得現在要做，而且平常就要教育我們的民眾，從現在開始，可能金融上面的第一關是每個民眾都非常在意的。你看烏克蘭發生戰爭的第一件事情大家就是幹嘛？領錢，然後逃難，這兩件事情會是第一優先。所以這個部分金融兵推去年做過，今年可能還沒有完成，院長上任之後，我希望是不是能變成常態性的。第二個，是不是有兵推之後的具體檢討，跟相關精進的作業，甚至我希望要開始增加人民的信心。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，跟委員報告，這個包括重要的關鍵基礎設施、民生維生系統、通訊系統、金融系統以及交通系統，這個都是在我們全社會韌性防衛當中，我們都會把它當作非常重要的事情來處理，雖然剛剛委員說……"],["黃委員珊珊：我同意，因為我在財政委員會，我們最關心的是我們三大龍頭自己能不能先穩健。第二個，一戰爭就要增加軍費，人民要繳更多的稅。第三個，我們的錢夠不夠，有沒有準備好這些軍費，這才是我們關心的，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，委員說最近以來，各種軍艦、軍機，各種的演習很多，狀況很多，來的時候我們不慌不亂，沒有的時候，我們也做好所有的準備，也不會有任何的放鬆，請委員放心。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，我希望在你上任之後，我可以看到第一次的金融兵推，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們來研議怎麼樣進行，讓國人更安心。"],["黃委員珊珊：儘快在短期內，在年底之前，至少就這些問題、這三個單位，我們是不是在金融方面先做好兵推？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我會跟部長和總裁討論，我們怎麼樣讓國人安心，表達我們已經做好了充分的準備，這個謝謝委員的提醒。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，總裁跟主委先請回，我請部長留下。院長，每次我都會問同樣的問題，財政收支劃分法，從您上任的第一次總質詢；部長，還有我們在財政委員會其實講了非常多次，現在國民黨團也提出他們的修正版本，將要靠攏民眾黨版本，也就是我們上一次所提的這個修正案，目前為止，我只問你一句話，行政院要不要修，修還是不修？你們要不要提出自己的版本？"],["卓院長榮泰：兩點跟委員報告，第一，我們認為現在的版本據以執行，是行政院最有把握的……"],["黃委員珊珊：就是你上次跟我說的嘛，已經是最佳的共識了……"],["卓院長榮泰：對、對、對，最佳……"],["黃委員珊珊：就25年來，現在是最好的狀況。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們認為以現在的版本來執行，是我們最有把握的，而且我們會持續對地方政府做更多的補助，第二點……"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，所以你認為只要按照大有為的政府來決定就好，不需要入法，不需要制度化？按照你們現在的版本，就是最好的版本……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是大有為的政府。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以之前陳水扁、蔡英文跟賴清德說財劃法要修正，他們是搗蛋鬼囉？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，這是時代的不同、時間的不同，我們各有不同的考量，我剛剛的第二點……"],["黃委員珊珊：時間的不同，我們只是希望把你講的最好的辦法入法而已，你現在所說的最好的辦法，我們希望它制度化、明確化，而不是單純地按照行政院自己的意志，而地方政府沒有參與的機會。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有，我剛剛只說了一點，我還有第二點，就是現在立法院的氣氛正朝向更好的方向發展，我知道……"],["黃委員珊珊：我們希望……"],["卓院長榮泰：最近要展開朝野協商，我覺得這個事情也可以來進行，是朝野協商重要的一部分。至於內容，我想部長非常努力在溝通、在蒐集、在瞭解各方的意見。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯，院長，我們就是要告訴你，我們真的很希望，這是民眾黨的版本，我們很清楚地把垂直分配的金額跟數量都寫出來，所以民眾黨的原則很簡單，第一個，我們增加大概2,700億的垂直分配，對地方只會多不會少，但是也不能影響到中央運作，所以2,700億是我們覺得合理的，的確，你們每一年大概也都剩下二千多億的歲計賸餘。第二個部分是只要增加了，在水平分配的部分，原則上任何縣市都不會比現在少，其他政黨的版本可能會產生不同的落差，但是民眾黨希望在這個原則之下，這兩個其實很好修。第三個……"],["卓院長榮泰：我請部長答復，但是我只請問一句，這樣的水平分配會不會強者越強，弱者更弱？請部長答復。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我們要設定的是統籌分配稅款分配委員會，委員會的部分就會讓財政部跟地方政府有相關討論的過程，而且讓財政部保留他們可以調節所謂的一般性補助款、調節他們的統籌分配稅款，所以民眾黨版本沒有定見，但是要討論……"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我這邊也跟委員做一個說明……"],["黃委員珊珊：但最重要的是，院長，我們上個會期在財政委員會作了一個很好的決議，希望你們提出自己的版本，我現在只有簡單的問，行政院是不打算提版本嗎？是要等黨團協商，還是要破釜沉舟，還是要垂死掙扎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員說明一下，非常贊成委員剛剛提到的，第一個，財政收支劃分法這件事情，我們的前提要兼顧地方財政需求……"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，你講的我都聽過了，你只要告訴我們，你們提不提版本，yes or no就好了。"],["莊部長翠雲：而且要維持中央的韌性來因應緊急的需要……"],["黃委員珊珊：要不要提嘛！不提？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們也都在努力當中，您提到的是垂直分配，那水平分配的部分事實上它更重要，因為涉及到地方政府的分配……"],["黃委員珊珊：我同意，所以我們沒有定見，我們希望聽到你們的版本。"],["莊部長翠雲：所以我們也召開會議，然後集約更大的共識，這都在努力當中。"],["黃委員珊珊：很好，那就提版本。"],["莊部長翠雲：這個我們都在努力當中。"],["黃委員珊珊：很好，那就提版本。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們在努力當中。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，院長。"],["莊部長翠雲：至於剛剛委員所提的審議委員會……"],["卓院長榮泰：這三個問題跟委員報告，行政院的版本在沒有更好的之前，我們認為現在是最好的版本……"],["黃委員珊珊：現在是最好的。"],["卓院長榮泰：在進入法案審查之前，我們認為現在的版本我們來執行是最有把握的……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以你們還是不提？"],["卓院長榮泰：第三個，將來我希望我們還是透過很誠懇的朝野協商，來達到大家共同的共識。"],["黃委員珊珊：是的，院長，我們在財政委員會，我想委員都非常善意，所以上個會期就希望……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們充分體會也瞭解。"],["黃委員珊珊：我們把意見告訴了你們，我們沒有說硬要怎麼樣，但是今年這個會期看起來，包括我們的召委會排，我們的版本也在裡面，我們也希望你們有版本大家一起討論，所以沒有人要強渡關山，但是行政院不能假裝沒看見，這件事情假設在立法院通過，你們要再來搞一次覆議嗎？還是要再來搞一次釋憲呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望在討論的過程當中，能夠……"],["黃委員珊珊：不要再製造朝野的對立，我們希望你們好好來討論。"],["卓院長榮泰：能夠在大院朝野黨團好好的協商，行政院也能在適當的機會表達我們跟大院裡面共同的討論。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯，所以拜託部長，如果可以的話，你說的水平分配、你們認為有爭議的部分，就拿到立法院來討論，好嗎？時間暫停，我們請金管會彭主委，部長請回。"],["主席：彭主委請。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，主委上來了，院長，我們還是要強調，臺灣現在的融資公司其實叫做化外之地，融資公司只要它有做公司登記，任何公司都可以借錢給別人，因為公司法就有規定40%以內資本額就可以借錢給別人，所以我們現在坊間的融資公司各種樣態、大大小小，假買賣、真貸款這種狀況非常的嚴重。今年起訴了兩個士官兵洩密去抵債，為什麼？因為他們去跟不法的或者是不知道哪裡來的所謂融資公司借錢，還不出來就幹嘛？回去偷機密，這是很嚴重的。剛剛我們講我們的國家安全很重要，然後我們的士官兵竟然用洩密來抵債，融資公司已經不單單只是社會問題，它可能還是國家安全問題。","另外，這個部分有跟主委談論過，我們臺灣調查過年輕世代的金融素養，低跟極低竟然高達81%，也就是大家不知道怎麼理財，大家不知道要到哪裡去找到合法的融資管道，甚至剛剛講的，即使他已經是國軍官兵了，他受了教育，可能也不知道去哪裡借錢，去借到了不該借的錢。更嚴重的是我們國軍的軍紀有一個規定，嚴禁國軍向不法機構質押、直銷及營內籌組互助會等情事。也就是說國軍不可以隨便去亂借錢，也不可以去做一些直銷，或者是說在裡面搞錢的事情。但是我想問的是，主委，請問什麼叫做不法機構？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，我想……"],["黃委員珊珊：剛剛我講全臺灣的公司只要做公司登記的就可以借錢，它是不是不法機構？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，其實有關融資租賃公司，在民國85年大家就開始討論到這個問題，到現在已經快30年，可見它的問題的複雜度……"],["黃委員珊珊：很嚴重。"],["彭主任委員金隆：像剛剛提到，因為現在我們在銀行法或是在法律上融資借款並不是特許的業務……"],["黃委員珊珊：是，因為不是特許。"],["彭主任委員金隆：一般公司只要有符合登記，它就可以做所謂的……"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯！"],["彭主任委員金隆：應收帳款買賣之類的業務。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，這就是我今天要提出來的，這個事情很嚴重，嚴重到說用放貸做掩護，然後要求蒐集個資，引發軍人洩密，而且軍人很容易借到錢，只要你說你是軍人，每個公司都會借你錢，為什麼？很穩定，一定會還，對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們金管會也觀察到這個問題，也承蒙很多委員非常關心這個問題……"],["黃委員珊珊：你要跟國防部好好討論一下。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：最重要的是，我今天的訴求還是很簡單，我們要加強管理非金融機構的民間放貸行為，這才是今天問題的嚴重性……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，沒有錯，現在金管會……"],["黃委員珊珊：我們之前講有三家影子銀行，三大租賃公司……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，跟委員報告一下，我們剛剛才跟三大所謂的租賃公司做完協商，而且也跟……"],["黃委員珊珊：我知道，但是那只有三大，現在小的更多啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們會逐步來處理，這次政府會非常直面這個問題，我想這部分應該來做……"],["黃委員珊珊：主委，我現在清楚你的主張，院長，主委想做你要不要支持他做？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然支持，我是非常支持彭主委在這個方面的努力及提出的方法。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，我現在就講在96年的時候，張俊雄院長已經訂定了融資公司專法，而且當時就以金管會為管理機關。這件事情我相信主委也非常認真，我們看到全世界國家裡面，大部分都會成立專責機關，目前只有臺灣沒有，臺灣是一個經濟部在管幾十萬家公司，所謂的融資租賃公司等於沒管。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實金管會有一些比較替代性的方案正在執行中，未來希望能更具體的做這件事情。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，所以主委，我希望訂定專法，這個專法，同樣的民眾黨已經提了版本，我相信民進黨團裡面有非常多的委員也很重視這件事，院長，請支持金管會把它納管。"],["卓院長榮泰：我支持首先必須納管，再來可以考慮各種形式的專法……"],["黃委員珊珊：同意。"],["卓院長榮泰：將來加強它的登記條件，以及它的審核要嚴審。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，可不可以在一個月之內，給我一個初步的回應，把你剛剛所說的方向，以及接下來要納管，我希望至少要納管到幾件事，第一個，設立的資格、資金的準備、從業人員的資格，還有信用管制跟放貸條件，最重要的是違約金的上限。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，剛剛說的都是金管會最近跟我說明的內容，我希望在完整之後，我們向大家來說明。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，沒有問題，我想一個月之內我提書面報告給委員。"],["黃委員珊珊：好的，謝謝院長、謝謝主委。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員，謝謝卓院長。","林楚茵委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員林楚茵書面質詢：","一、金融漢光演習","現代戰爭不只是軍武戰爭，而是政治、金融、科技、網路和認知戰融合的「混和戰」，「金融韌性」尤為重要。中國長期於台海周邊實施軍演，台海緊張情勢大幅升溫，台灣應實施金融漢光演習，針對金融戰進行沙盤兵推，並涵蓋經濟封鎖及突發狀況等情境。","本席自2022年起即數次透過質詢及公聽會方式，呼籲行政院應盡速跨部會規劃「金融漢光演習」，以防止台灣遭受惡意攻擊。","近期屢傳國內金融機構遭受駭客DDoS攻擊，系統性癱瘓我國金融機構，造成台灣證券交易所、兆豐金控、彰化銀行、第一銀行等網站當機、連不上網頁等情況。甚至事發後數周仍有海外民眾因境外網域遭封鎖，而無法完全排除侵擾恢復正常交易。","顯見台灣金融環境有必要針對金融體系風險管理與緊急應對進行模擬演練，想定如市場崩潰、網路攻擊、流動性危機等情景，測試金融體系韌性和協作能力。俾利於提升金融機構及相關政府部門對於潛在金融危機的應對能力。","保衛資訊安全不能只是口號，網路安全已經成為無煙硝戰爭的重要關口。爰此，行政院應召集相關財金部門及國防單位共同研商規劃金融漢光演習。","二、財金單位嚴防中國認知作戰","媒體報導，「由永豐銀行、彰化銀行共同發起的大陸台資金融機構合作聯盟，27日在江蘇南京成立，與會30多家台資金融機構積極響應。」","依據新聞報導內容，公股行庫參與程度深入，有與南京金融城理事會簽訂合作備忘錄，雙方約定將在金融產業推介、兩岸青年人才交流、智庫成果分享等方面不斷深化合作。恐有違反《臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第33-1條》非經主管機關許可不得與中國黨政軍有任何形式合作的規定。","經了解，當日係一般交流活動，希望吸引更多金融業入駐及招攬更多台商至南京發展，以促進當地經濟發展，並未簽署任何文件或備忘錄。","惟台灣媒體受中國認知作戰影響，不論是否為有意的在地協力者，直接引用中國官媒《人民網》新聞報導錯誤的訊息，都將造成民眾誤解與不安。","錯誤訊息要立刻澄清，不能任其發酵，爰要求財金單位面對中國認知作戰威脅應研擬應對措施！","三、金融科技專責單位","金融應用發展變化多端且快速，然而相關的「金融科技發展與創新中心」卻僅是任務編組，且主管及承辦人員皆非專職，此與金管會一再強調重視金融科技不相符。","在科技因素導入金融業後，不論防止金融科技詐騙或協助金融科技發展都需要更多了解科技的人才進入金融圈，金管會應該提出整體整合的規劃，成立專責局處負責相關業務。","2023年5月份，本席於財政委員會質詢時，時任主委黃天牧承諾研議成立金融科技專責局處，今（2024）年度5月份，金管會主委彭金隆也於業務報告中承諾將設立金融市場發展與創新專責單位，惟報告迄今尚未有提供規劃進度及設立方式，爰請金融監督管理委員會說明並提供設立金融科技專責單位期程規劃及業務內容規劃。"],["主席：下一位請葛如鈞委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":179,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃珊珊","林楚茵","葛如鈞","林德福","鄭正鈐","林沛祥","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","范雲","謝衣鳯","莊瑞雄","黃建賓","陳秀寳","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅美玲","黃捷","張雅琳","李坤城","王美惠"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00003","1137801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137801_00004"}}}