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{\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 694.545, \"end\": 695.705, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 695.705, \"end\": 696.805, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 696.805, \"end\": 697.066, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 697.066, \"end\": 697.526, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 697.526, \"end\": 698.026, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 698.026, \"end\": 698.246, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 698.246, \"end\": 698.386, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 698.386, \"end\": 698.486, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 698.486, \"end\": 698.686, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 698.686, \"end\": 699.066, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 699.066, \"end\": 699.426, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 699.426, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 730.781, \"end\": 731.141, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 731.141, \"end\": 731.161, \"score\": 0.961}]}, {\"start\": 731.621, \"end\": 752.713, \"text\": \"那我認為一個比較快速的解決方式當然我們師資這邊培育可以加強就是108課綱其實我們可以去增聘專業的師資不管是社區大學的講師或者各方面有各種專才的也許會是一個要求老師開課開更多的課我覺得會是一個那這也是需要錢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 731.621, \"end\": 731.741, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 731.741, \"end\": 732.682, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 732.682, \"end\": 733.062, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 733.062, \"end\": 733.622, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 733.622, \"end\": 733.942, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 733.942, \"end\": 734.082, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 734.082, \"end\": 734.222, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 734.222, 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\"那還是請院長也考慮人力的部分也要增加因為行政專職化就目前學校裡面的行政工作那讓教師可以專心教書我會覺得是根本解決的部分要不然你原本的勞務這麼的多我們剛講到不管是霸凌、性平各方面還有我們的普特融合那其實增加了非常多的行政工作量那院長還是希望您可以考慮好嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 877.33, \"end\": 877.55, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 877.55, \"end\": 878.451, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 878.451, \"end\": 878.931, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 878.931, \"end\": 879.231, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 879.231, \"end\": 880.331, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 880.331, \"end\": 880.612, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 880.612, \"end\": 880.772, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 880.772, \"end\": 880.912, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 880.912, \"end\": 881.072, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 881.072, \"end\": 881.192, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 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00:01:00,617\n我們有一位委員問到教師荒我很謝謝他引用我記者會所講的五個原因我當時辦這個記者會其實第一個是跟教育部對話因為教育部在去年發生的時候說是過渡期說是代理教師荒可是其實我的研究發現不是代理教師荒我們再看下一頁\n\n4\n00:01:01,317 --> 00:01:20,523\n因為如果是代理教師荒的話不會去年也缺人結果今年還是缺因為當時我們潘部長講說是過度期因為我們為代理教師已經做了相當多的政策改變那我們部長應該了解因為當時也是我非常關注代理教師的同工不同酬的問題\n\n5\n00:01:21,363 --> 00:01:21,523\n下一頁\n\n6\n00:01:35,605 --> 00:01:55,876\n我拜託教育部幫我去跟縣市政府要來的資料,我們以臺北市為例,這個左邊是他們去年正式教師,你看到我圈起來的79,是他其實缺400多人,增到300多人,還缺79人正式教師。\n\n7\n00:01:57,077 --> 00:02:24,679\n右邊是今年缺額更大他期望招400多人只招到200多人缺了183個正式教師那是因為正式教師缺不到人所以才會再去徵代理教師所以代理教師這個制度原本是因為有人懷孕或者照顧假的一個制度可是現在居然變成是在補正式教師資據說不只一年的不足\n\n8\n00:02:25,420 --> 00:02:31,695\n我跟國教署請教過幾次我發現國教署跟教育部沒有真的瞭解這個問題下一張是要給\n\n9\n00:02:34,694 --> 00:03:01,189\n院長看的這個是我辦公室自己找出來的數字從你們的教育部的統計年報因為你沒有這個統計我們自己去算出來的我們看一一我們看這個連續幾年院長你可以看一下左邊這個圖的藍色的是有教師資格的就是考上有教師證的下面那個黃色是他過去三年內有來參與爭試的\n\n10\n00:03:03,911 --> 00:03:22,966\n因為你有證照就好像護士一樣護理師有證照不代表他會來應徵嘛那黃色的是來應徵的你看到藍色其實逐年是上升的有越來越多人有這個教師診考上這個資格可是下面黃色你看他越來越少人在三年內來參與這個教師的徵試\n\n11\n00:03:27,649 --> 00:03:43,128\n所以我們在看右邊這個圖我來算統計那教育部一直覺得說其實有教師資格的人很多我們一直在培訓可是你會發現從原本有4成的人3年內他會來爭取這個工作去應徵\n\n12\n00:03:44,289 --> 00:04:12,094\n可是現在只剩下幾乎三分之一從4乘2掉到34%就是現在教育部居然沒有最新的資料只有到111年我的統計願意考教師的人只剩下三分之一有66%的他有失陪取得資格可是卻連去應聘都不願意這是我們現在遇到的最大的危機下一頁\n\n13\n00:04:13,612 --> 00:04:38,788\n那呃那我也要跟院長報告這不是只是臺灣的問題哦那我看到陸續看到這些新聞那我今年暑假去教育最高最厲害的愛沙尼亞跟芬蘭哦披薩都是數一數二的哦他們也發生教師罷工哦教師荒的問題哦我們看一下從法國意大利日本哦三成以上的教師哦被認為是過勞死線那你看到美國\n\n14\n00:04:39,708 --> 00:04:57,129\n英國居然政府還主張用居家工作彈性工時吸引大家投入教師美國鬧教師荒還有提到說要週休三日是不是能夠讓有志之士願意投入大家都知道教師非常重要\n\n15\n00:04:57,449 --> 00:05:15,557\n那你可以看到全球我不知道原因也許是3C產品年輕世代越來越難教那也許是我們對教師的要求越來越多所以臺灣不是唯一面對這個的處境可是我們跟別的國家比我們現在有沒有找到解方真正找到問題\n\n16\n00:05:16,457 --> 00:05:36,542\n我想看下一頁那台灣的部分那如果一直認知是代理教師荒那就是教育部沒有看到那我們看到就是一些表面上的媒體的分析都還嘗試錯誤的那大家至少看到是年輕世代他們不願意投入這個行業那往下看下一頁\n\n17\n00:05:37,948 --> 00:06:06,625\n這個就是剛剛有委員引用到的我這個五個分析那我結合幾大教師會跟教師公會在今年教師節那針對教師荒提出五個原因那今天我只跟院長討論前三個我提出的五個原因剛剛有委員他有用我這個講法第一個是108課綱給的全新備課資源少我認為108課綱方向是對的我們看到民主國家的方向是這樣\n\n18\n00:06:07,165 --> 00:06:23,971\n可是呢108課綱對師資的要求跟能力是更高的那我們給的備課資源少。第二個還是回到對老師來講各項加擠過低不符合他耗費心理他多開一門課其實他基本上沒有得到更好的待遇\n\n19\n00:06:24,551 --> 00:06:44,498\n第三個是行政繁重偏離教學專業。行政繁重有非常多的原因包含我後面幾個就是性貧、霸凌、教師疲累還有校園職場不管是校長霸凌、主管霸凌甚至有老師認為家長都在霸凌那是一個很不友善的職場\n\n20\n00:06:45,498 --> 00:07:12,352\n那這我今天就針對前三項想跟院長討論那也要跟院長報告教育部其實有在努力解決這個問題那教育部的解方是什麼第一個下一個下一頁教育部針對行政繁重目前的解方是針對兼任的行政教師提高加緊那可是我要覺得說其實這是不足的我待會會提到我認為是人力\n\n21\n00:07:13,993 --> 00:07:14,073\n下一頁\n\n22\n00:07:36,616 --> 00:07:49,874\n針對108課綱,教育部也一直在改善。目前教育部的解方是增加教師研習時數,補助終點費。這個解方有沒有用?我請院長看下一張我自己做的數字。\n\n23\n00:07:51,676 --> 00:08:12,150\n我們看一下教育部說要補助終點費院長你看上面那條線是基本工資基本工資這是19年來的資料66元一小時漲到190塊是不是漲了超過三倍那我們民進黨政府裡面漲特別多對不對可是我們如果把教師終點費19年來看從260塊漲到336元欸只漲了29%欸\n\n24\n00:08:21,016 --> 00:08:38,491\n那要跟院長報告,你說教師中年費本來就比去便利商店打工高嘛,不能這樣想,因為備課的時數沒有算進去,對不對?他教一門課,尤其是108課綱這種新課,背後不是只是教書那一小時欸,\n\n25\n00:08:39,652 --> 00:09:04,472\n所以對教師來講我會講這種加級長的方式事實上不符合耗費心理如果你跟第一線老師討論他就覺得那我教原來的那些就好了我為什麼要投入所以其實就目前教育部的解方我認為也並沒有真的能夠解決教師荒的問題尤其是對年輕世代那我們再看下一頁\n\n26\n00:09:05,578 --> 00:09:33,572\n院長這是我非常認同的院長應該看得出來你知不知道這張是哪裡來的院長曉不曉得6到18歲多元均優教育環境成就每個兒少沒關係那個院長可能看的資料量太多了這是我們賴清德總統的政見教育方面的那我就不一項一項列入了我要跟院長報告我非常認同賴總統的教育政見\n\n27\n00:09:34,292 --> 00:09:53,545\n只是它裡面少了一個東西,它每個政見都要教師做更多,包含歧視性平那些我都也很認同,可是針對如何達到這個多元均優的教育環境,以我當大學老師超過10年,師資是最核心的軟實力。\n\n28\n00:09:55,286 --> 00:10:23,107\n如果教師荒,我們再好的政見沒有優質的老師投入,年輕世代甚至有人寧願去當警消,離開教職真的有這樣的例子。因為他下班就是下班了,教師下班,家長可能還會打電話給他。所以我想下一頁我要講的是好的教育,我們賴總統的政見很好,可是需要教師投入更多,\n\n29\n00:10:23,627 --> 00:10:49,333\n每個都教師要投入更多可是我們卻沒有給教師實質更多的支持那我覺得這是目前很大的一個危機那再看下一頁所以我今天的這塊板子坐在這裡其實是要幫我們教育部跟教師向院長請命我覺得需要人事行政總處跟主計總處共同來\n\n30\n00:10:51,853 --> 00:11:16,741\n提供資源為什麼需要提供資源以下是我的解方我不知道下一頁我不知道部長是不是認同我覺得你們現在那個解方還是不夠以我看到這個問題的本質那你們的統計分析也還沒有找出那當然這是可以討論的這我提出來的解方是不是最好的解方那但是我想你們目前對外的回應都還沒有真的了解問題\n\n31\n00:11:18,322 --> 00:11:42,747\n第一個,我認為不能只給錢啊,你行政加擠給更多錢可是因為工作量真的太大了,就是說原本的人在分擔這麼多的工作,我覺得行政應該要專職化,就是人事行政總署、主計總署應該要給教育體系更多的人力,要增設行政專職人力,讓老師專心做老師。\n\n32\n00:11:45,287 --> 00:12:11,161\n那第二個我認為108課綱那現在的方式可能會緩不濟急那剛剛其實有委員談到非常多人為什麼小學就去補習我的理解是因為我們有些城市私立中學被認為比較好他其實是為了要考私中但是擔心108課綱在公立學校的開出的課不夠多那這是我初步的觀察\n\n33\n00:12:11,621 --> 00:12:32,713\n那我認為一個比較快速的解決方式當然我們師資這邊培育可以加強就是108課綱其實我們可以去增聘專業的師資不管是社區大學的講師或者各方面有各種專才的也許會是一個要求老師開課開更多的課我覺得會是一個那這也是需要錢\n\n34\n00:12:33,593 --> 00:12:52,926\n第三個我想目前的教師的終點費調升方案跟教師的薪資真的不符合他們的據說付出我剛已經拿基本工資因為如果去超商下班就下班那可以漲這麼多那為什麼當老師只有漲19年房29%\n\n35\n00:12:55,908 --> 00:13:19,919\n那這三個解方真的不是教育部可以單獨完成的都需要院長支持人事行政總署跟主計總署一起來那院長是不是可以承諾說協助人跟錢呢幫助教育部真正解決這個教師荒的問題那讓我們賴總統很好的教育政見真的可以好好的落實呢\n\n36\n00:13:20,319 --> 00:13:20,499\n主席\n\n37\n00:13:34,175 --> 00:14:00,850\n好謝謝委員在臺灣的社會教師應該本來是一個穩定受尊重而且有成就感的工作但是經過這樣的變化之後他變成一個行政外務壓力大而且不友善的職場環境甚至於他因為學習方式的改變也改變了師生之間的關係這個是現實社會那教育的預算雖然不是憲法的明文規定但是我們編列在百分之十\n\n38\n00:14:02,291 --> 00:14:18,454\n二十三這個數字是一直長年在達到這個目標的,所以它是非常龐大的,而且我也知道在所有教育預算當中有很大的比例是在人事的預算方面,但就儘管如此,我們對於這些剛剛委員所提出的\n\n39\n00:14:19,683 --> 00:14:36,184\n幾個不合理,該增加人的,或者是就增加福利的部分,我們還是願意很誠懇地去檢討,在現有的機制底下去做一個合理性的調整,那我會請教育部來進一步往這個方向想,來提出一個說明跟報告。\n\n40\n00:14:37,330 --> 00:15:03,623\n那還是請院長也考慮人力的部分也要增加因為行政專職化就目前學校裡面的行政工作那讓教師可以專心教書我會覺得是根本解決的部分要不然你原本的勞務這麼的多我們剛講到不管是霸凌、性平各方面還有我們的普特融合那其實增加了非常多的行政工作量那院長還是希望您可以考慮好嗎\n\n41\n00:15:04,343 --> 00:15:04,423\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1908\t2929\t謝謝副院長,有請院長\n15049\t28268\t范雲好院長早您辛苦了那今天我主要是也關注在教師荒那大概只有最後3、5分鐘的時候需要您所以您可以請坐沒關係沒關係我就請部長來這樣好那個下一頁\n35106\t60617\t我們有一位委員問到教師荒我很謝謝他引用我記者會所講的五個原因我當時辦這個記者會其實第一個是跟教育部對話因為教育部在去年發生的時候說是過渡期說是代理教師荒可是其實我的研究發現不是代理教師荒我們再看下一頁\n61317\t80523\t因為如果是代理教師荒的話不會去年也缺人結果今年還是缺因為當時我們潘部長講說是過度期因為我們為代理教師已經做了相當多的政策改變那我們部長應該了解因為當時也是我非常關注代理教師的同工不同酬的問題\n81363\t81523\t下一頁\n95605\t115876\t我拜託教育部幫我去跟縣市政府要來的資料,我們以臺北市為例,這個左邊是他們去年正式教師,你看到我圈起來的79,是他其實缺400多人,增到300多人,還缺79人正式教師。\n117077\t144679\t右邊是今年缺額更大他期望招400多人只招到200多人缺了183個正式教師那是因為正式教師缺不到人所以才會再去徵代理教師所以代理教師這個制度原本是因為有人懷孕或者照顧假的一個制度可是現在居然變成是在補正式教師資據說不只一年的不足\n145420\t151695\t我跟國教署請教過幾次我發現國教署跟教育部沒有真的瞭解這個問題下一張是要給\n154694\t181189\t院長看的這個是我辦公室自己找出來的數字從你們的教育部的統計年報因為你沒有這個統計我們自己去算出來的我們看一一我們看這個連續幾年院長你可以看一下左邊這個圖的藍色的是有教師資格的就是考上有教師證的下面那個黃色是他過去三年內有來參與爭試的\n183911\t202966\t因為你有證照就好像護士一樣護理師有證照不代表他會來應徵嘛那黃色的是來應徵的你看到藍色其實逐年是上升的有越來越多人有這個教師診考上這個資格可是下面黃色你看他越來越少人在三年內來參與這個教師的徵試\n207649\t223128\t所以我們在看右邊這個圖我來算統計那教育部一直覺得說其實有教師資格的人很多我們一直在培訓可是你會發現從原本有4成的人3年內他會來爭取這個工作去應徵\n224289\t252094\t可是現在只剩下幾乎三分之一從4乘2掉到34%就是現在教育部居然沒有最新的資料只有到111年我的統計願意考教師的人只剩下三分之一有66%的他有失陪取得資格可是卻連去應聘都不願意這是我們現在遇到的最大的危機下一頁\n253612\t278788\t那呃那我也要跟院長報告這不是只是臺灣的問題哦那我看到陸續看到這些新聞那我今年暑假去教育最高最厲害的愛沙尼亞跟芬蘭哦披薩都是數一數二的哦他們也發生教師罷工哦教師荒的問題哦我們看一下從法國意大利日本哦三成以上的教師哦被認為是過勞死線那你看到美國\n279708\t297129\t英國居然政府還主張用居家工作彈性工時 吸引大家投入教師美國鬧教師荒 還有提到說要週休三日 是不是能夠讓有志之士願意投入 大家都知道教師非常重要\n297449\t315557\t那你可以看到全球我不知道原因也許是3C產品年輕世代越來越難教那也許是我們對教師的要求越來越多所以臺灣不是唯一面對這個的處境可是我們跟別的國家比我們現在有沒有找到解方真正找到問題\n316457\t336542\t我想看下一頁那台灣的部分那如果一直認知是代理教師荒那就是教育部沒有看到那我們看到就是一些表面上的媒體的分析都還嘗試錯誤的那大家至少看到是年輕世代他們不願意投入這個行業那往下看下一頁\n337948\t366625\t這個就是剛剛有委員引用到的我這個五個分析那我結合幾大教師會跟教師公會在今年教師節那針對教師荒提出五個原因那今天我只跟院長討論前三個我提出的五個原因剛剛有委員他有用我這個講法第一個是108課綱給的全新備課資源少我認為108課綱方向是對的我們看到民主國家的方向是這樣\n367165\t383971\t可是呢108課綱對師資的要求跟能力是更高的那我們給的備課資源少。 第二個還是回到對老師來講各項加擠過低不符合他耗費心理他多開一門課其實他基本上沒有得到更好的待遇\n384551\t404498\t第三個是行政繁重偏離教學專業。 行政繁重有非常多的原因包含我後面幾個就是性貧、霸凌、教師疲累還有校園職場不管是校長霸凌、主管霸凌甚至有老師認為家長都在霸凌那是一個很不友善的職場\n405498\t432352\t那這我今天就針對前三項想跟院長討論那也要跟院長報告教育部其實有在努力解決這個問題那教育部的解方是什麼第一個下一個下一頁教育部針對行政繁重目前的解方是針對兼任的行政教師提高加緊那可是我要覺得說其實這是不足的我待會會提到我認為是人力\n433993\t434073\t下一頁\n456616\t469874\t針對108課綱,教育部也一直在改善。 目前教育部的解方是增加教師研習時數,補助終點費。 這個解方有沒有用?我請院長看下一張我自己做的數字。\n471676\t492150\t我們看一下教育部說要補助終點費 院長你看上面那條線是基本工資基本工資這是19年來的資料 66元一小時漲到190塊是不是漲了超過三倍 那我們民進黨政府裡面漲特別多對不對可是我們如果把教師終點費19年來看從260塊漲到336元 欸只漲了29%欸\n501016\t518491\t那要跟院長報告,你說教師中年費本來就比去便利商店打工高嘛,不能這樣想,因為備課的時數沒有算進去,對不對?他教一門課,尤其是108課綱這種新課,背後不是只是教書那一小時欸,\n519652\t544472\t所以對教師來講我會講這種加級長的方式事實上不符合耗費心理如果你跟第一線老師討論他就覺得那我教原來的那些就好了我為什麼要投入所以其實就目前教育部的解方我認為也並沒有真的能夠解決教師荒的問題尤其是對年輕世代那我們再看下一頁\n545578\t573572\t院長這是我非常認同的院長應該看得出來你知不知道這張是哪裡來的院長曉不曉得6到18歲多元均優教育環境成就每個兒少沒關係那個院長可能看的資料量太多了這是我們賴清德總統的政見教育方面的那我就不一項一項列入了我要跟院長報告我非常認同賴總統的教育政見\n574292\t593545\t只是它裡面少了一個東西,它每個政見都要教師做更多,包含歧視性平那些我都也很認同,可是針對如何達到這個多元均優的教育環境,以我當大學老師超過10年,師資是最核心的軟實力。\n595286\t623107\t如果教師荒,我們再好的政見沒有優質的老師投入,年輕世代甚至有人寧願去當警消,離開教職真的有這樣的例子。因為他下班就是下班了,教師下班,家長可能還會打電話給他。所以我想下一頁我要講的是好的教育,我們賴總統的政見很好,可是需要教師投入更多,\n623627\t649333\t每個都教師要投入更多可是我們卻沒有給教師實質更多的支持那我覺得這是目前很大的一個危機那再看下一頁所以我今天的這塊板子坐在這裡其實是要幫我們教育部跟教師向院長請命我覺得需要人事行政總處跟主計總處共同來\n651853\t676741\t提供資源為什麼需要提供資源以下是我的解方我不知道下一頁我不知道部長是不是認同我覺得你們現在那個解方還是不夠以我看到這個問題的本質那你們的統計分析也還沒有找出那當然這是可以討論的這我提出來的解方是不是最好的解方那但是我想你們目前對外的回應都還沒有真的了解問題\n678322\t702747\t第一個,我認為不能只給錢啊,你行政加擠給更多錢可是因為工作量真的太大了,就是說原本的人在分擔這麼多的工作,我覺得行政應該要專職化,就是人事行政總署、主計總署應該要給教育體系更多的人力,要增設行政專職人力,讓老師專心做老師。\n705287\t731161\t那第二個我認為108課綱那現在的方式可能會緩不濟急那剛剛其實有委員談到非常多人為什麼小學就去補習我的理解是因為我們有些城市私立中學被認為比較好他其實是為了要考私中但是擔心108課綱在公立學校的開出的課不夠多那這是我初步的觀察\n731621\t752713\t那我認為一個比較快速的解決方式當然我們師資這邊培育可以加強就是108課綱其實我們可以去增聘專業的師資不管是社區大學的講師或者各方面有各種專才的也許會是一個要求老師開課開更多的課我覺得會是一個那這也是需要錢\n753593\t772926\t第三個我想目前的教師的終點費調升方案跟教師的薪資真的不符合他們的據說付出我剛已經拿基本工資因為如果去超商下班就下班那可以漲這麼多那為什麼當老師只有漲19年房29%\n775908\t799919\t那這三個解方真的不是教育部可以單獨完成的都需要院長支持人事行政總署跟主計總署一起來那院長是不是可以承諾說協助人跟錢呢幫助教育部真正解決這個教師荒的問題那讓我們賴總統很好的教育政見真的可以好好的落實呢\n800319\t800499\t主席\n814175\t840850\t好謝謝委員在臺灣的社會教師應該本來是一個穩定受尊重而且有成就感的工作但是經過這樣的變化之後他變成一個行政外務壓力大而且不友善的職場環境甚至於他因為學習方式的改變也改變了師生之間的關係這個是現實社會那教育的預算雖然不是憲法的明文規定但是我們編列在百分之十\n842291\t858454\t二十三這個數字是一直長年在達到這個目標的,所以它是非常龐大的,而且我也知道在所有教育預算當中有很大的比例是在人事的預算方面,但就儘管如此,我們對於這些剛剛委員所提出的\n859683\t876184\t幾個不合理,該增加人的,或者是就增加福利的部分,我們還是願意很誠懇地去檢討,在現有的機制底下去做一個合理性的調整,那我會請教育部來進一步往這個方向想,來提出一個說明跟報告。\n877330\t903623\t那還是請院長也考慮人力的部分也要增加因為行政專職化就目前學校裡面的行政工作那讓教師可以專心教書我會覺得是根本解決的部分要不然你原本的勞務這麼的多我們剛講到不管是霸凌、性平各方面還有我們的普特融合那其實增加了非常多的行政工作量那院長還是希望您可以考慮好嗎\n904343\t904423\t主席\n","txt":"謝謝副院長,有請院長\n范雲好院長早您辛苦了那今天我主要是也關注在教師荒那大概只有最後3、5分鐘的時候需要您所以您可以請坐沒關係沒關係我就請部長來這樣好那個下一頁\n我們有一位委員問到教師荒我很謝謝他引用我記者會所講的五個原因我當時辦這個記者會其實第一個是跟教育部對話因為教育部在去年發生的時候說是過渡期說是代理教師荒可是其實我的研究發現不是代理教師荒我們再看下一頁\n因為如果是代理教師荒的話不會去年也缺人結果今年還是缺因為當時我們潘部長講說是過度期因為我們為代理教師已經做了相當多的政策改變那我們部長應該了解因為當時也是我非常關注代理教師的同工不同酬的問題\n下一頁\n我拜託教育部幫我去跟縣市政府要來的資料,我們以臺北市為例,這個左邊是他們去年正式教師,你看到我圈起來的79,是他其實缺400多人,增到300多人,還缺79人正式教師。\n右邊是今年缺額更大他期望招400多人只招到200多人缺了183個正式教師那是因為正式教師缺不到人所以才會再去徵代理教師所以代理教師這個制度原本是因為有人懷孕或者照顧假的一個制度可是現在居然變成是在補正式教師資據說不只一年的不足\n我跟國教署請教過幾次我發現國教署跟教育部沒有真的瞭解這個問題下一張是要給\n院長看的這個是我辦公室自己找出來的數字從你們的教育部的統計年報因為你沒有這個統計我們自己去算出來的我們看一一我們看這個連續幾年院長你可以看一下左邊這個圖的藍色的是有教師資格的就是考上有教師證的下面那個黃色是他過去三年內有來參與爭試的\n因為你有證照就好像護士一樣護理師有證照不代表他會來應徵嘛那黃色的是來應徵的你看到藍色其實逐年是上升的有越來越多人有這個教師診考上這個資格可是下面黃色你看他越來越少人在三年內來參與這個教師的徵試\n所以我們在看右邊這個圖我來算統計那教育部一直覺得說其實有教師資格的人很多我們一直在培訓可是你會發現從原本有4成的人3年內他會來爭取這個工作去應徵\n可是現在只剩下幾乎三分之一從4乘2掉到34%就是現在教育部居然沒有最新的資料只有到111年我的統計願意考教師的人只剩下三分之一有66%的他有失陪取得資格可是卻連去應聘都不願意這是我們現在遇到的最大的危機下一頁\n那呃那我也要跟院長報告這不是只是臺灣的問題哦那我看到陸續看到這些新聞那我今年暑假去教育最高最厲害的愛沙尼亞跟芬蘭哦披薩都是數一數二的哦他們也發生教師罷工哦教師荒的問題哦我們看一下從法國意大利日本哦三成以上的教師哦被認為是過勞死線那你看到美國\n英國居然政府還主張用居家工作彈性工時 吸引大家投入教師美國鬧教師荒 還有提到說要週休三日 是不是能夠讓有志之士願意投入 大家都知道教師非常重要\n那你可以看到全球我不知道原因也許是3C產品年輕世代越來越難教那也許是我們對教師的要求越來越多所以臺灣不是唯一面對這個的處境可是我們跟別的國家比我們現在有沒有找到解方真正找到問題\n我想看下一頁那台灣的部分那如果一直認知是代理教師荒那就是教育部沒有看到那我們看到就是一些表面上的媒體的分析都還嘗試錯誤的那大家至少看到是年輕世代他們不願意投入這個行業那往下看下一頁\n這個就是剛剛有委員引用到的我這個五個分析那我結合幾大教師會跟教師公會在今年教師節那針對教師荒提出五個原因那今天我只跟院長討論前三個我提出的五個原因剛剛有委員他有用我這個講法第一個是108課綱給的全新備課資源少我認為108課綱方向是對的我們看到民主國家的方向是這樣\n可是呢108課綱對師資的要求跟能力是更高的那我們給的備課資源少。 第二個還是回到對老師來講各項加擠過低不符合他耗費心理他多開一門課其實他基本上沒有得到更好的待遇\n第三個是行政繁重偏離教學專業。 行政繁重有非常多的原因包含我後面幾個就是性貧、霸凌、教師疲累還有校園職場不管是校長霸凌、主管霸凌甚至有老師認為家長都在霸凌那是一個很不友善的職場\n那這我今天就針對前三項想跟院長討論那也要跟院長報告教育部其實有在努力解決這個問題那教育部的解方是什麼第一個下一個下一頁教育部針對行政繁重目前的解方是針對兼任的行政教師提高加緊那可是我要覺得說其實這是不足的我待會會提到我認為是人力\n下一頁\n針對108課綱,教育部也一直在改善。 目前教育部的解方是增加教師研習時數,補助終點費。 這個解方有沒有用?我請院長看下一張我自己做的數字。\n我們看一下教育部說要補助終點費 院長你看上面那條線是基本工資基本工資這是19年來的資料 66元一小時漲到190塊是不是漲了超過三倍 那我們民進黨政府裡面漲特別多對不對可是我們如果把教師終點費19年來看從260塊漲到336元 欸只漲了29%欸\n那要跟院長報告,你說教師中年費本來就比去便利商店打工高嘛,不能這樣想,因為備課的時數沒有算進去,對不對?他教一門課,尤其是108課綱這種新課,背後不是只是教書那一小時欸,\n所以對教師來講我會講這種加級長的方式事實上不符合耗費心理如果你跟第一線老師討論他就覺得那我教原來的那些就好了我為什麼要投入所以其實就目前教育部的解方我認為也並沒有真的能夠解決教師荒的問題尤其是對年輕世代那我們再看下一頁\n院長這是我非常認同的院長應該看得出來你知不知道這張是哪裡來的院長曉不曉得6到18歲多元均優教育環境成就每個兒少沒關係那個院長可能看的資料量太多了這是我們賴清德總統的政見教育方面的那我就不一項一項列入了我要跟院長報告我非常認同賴總統的教育政見\n只是它裡面少了一個東西,它每個政見都要教師做更多,包含歧視性平那些我都也很認同,可是針對如何達到這個多元均優的教育環境,以我當大學老師超過10年,師資是最核心的軟實力。\n如果教師荒,我們再好的政見沒有優質的老師投入,年輕世代甚至有人寧願去當警消,離開教職真的有這樣的例子。因為他下班就是下班了,教師下班,家長可能還會打電話給他。所以我想下一頁我要講的是好的教育,我們賴總統的政見很好,可是需要教師投入更多,\n每個都教師要投入更多可是我們卻沒有給教師實質更多的支持那我覺得這是目前很大的一個危機那再看下一頁所以我今天的這塊板子坐在這裡其實是要幫我們教育部跟教師向院長請命我覺得需要人事行政總處跟主計總處共同來\n提供資源為什麼需要提供資源以下是我的解方我不知道下一頁我不知道部長是不是認同我覺得你們現在那個解方還是不夠以我看到這個問題的本質那你們的統計分析也還沒有找出那當然這是可以討論的這我提出來的解方是不是最好的解方那但是我想你們目前對外的回應都還沒有真的了解問題\n第一個,我認為不能只給錢啊,你行政加擠給更多錢可是因為工作量真的太大了,就是說原本的人在分擔這麼多的工作,我覺得行政應該要專職化,就是人事行政總署、主計總署應該要給教育體系更多的人力,要增設行政專職人力,讓老師專心做老師。\n那第二個我認為108課綱那現在的方式可能會緩不濟急那剛剛其實有委員談到非常多人為什麼小學就去補習我的理解是因為我們有些城市私立中學被認為比較好他其實是為了要考私中但是擔心108課綱在公立學校的開出的課不夠多那這是我初步的觀察\n那我認為一個比較快速的解決方式當然我們師資這邊培育可以加強就是108課綱其實我們可以去增聘專業的師資不管是社區大學的講師或者各方面有各種專才的也許會是一個要求老師開課開更多的課我覺得會是一個那這也是需要錢\n第三個我想目前的教師的終點費調升方案跟教師的薪資真的不符合他們的據說付出我剛已經拿基本工資因為如果去超商下班就下班那可以漲這麼多那為什麼當老師只有漲19年房29%\n那這三個解方真的不是教育部可以單獨完成的都需要院長支持人事行政總署跟主計總署一起來那院長是不是可以承諾說協助人跟錢呢幫助教育部真正解決這個教師荒的問題那讓我們賴總統很好的教育政見真的可以好好的落實呢\n主席\n好謝謝委員在臺灣的社會教師應該本來是一個穩定受尊重而且有成就感的工作但是經過這樣的變化之後他變成一個行政外務壓力大而且不友善的職場環境甚至於他因為學習方式的改變也改變了師生之間的關係這個是現實社會那教育的預算雖然不是憲法的明文規定但是我們編列在百分之十\n二十三這個數字是一直長年在達到這個目標的,所以它是非常龐大的,而且我也知道在所有教育預算當中有很大的比例是在人事的預算方面,但就儘管如此,我們對於這些剛剛委員所提出的\n幾個不合理,該增加人的,或者是就增加福利的部分,我們還是願意很誠懇地去檢討,在現有的機制底下去做一個合理性的調整,那我會請教育部來進一步往這個方向想,來提出一個說明跟報告。\n那還是請院長也考慮人力的部分也要增加因為行政專職化就目前學校裡面的行政工作那讓教師可以專心教書我會覺得是根本解決的部分要不然你原本的勞務這麼的多我們剛講到不管是霸凌、性平各方面還有我們的普特融合那其實增加了非常多的行政工作量那院長還是希望您可以考慮好嗎\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.908 --> 00:02.929\n謝謝副院長,有請院長\n\n00:15.049 --> 00:28.268\n范雲好院長早您辛苦了那今天我主要是也關注在教師荒那大概只有最後3、5分鐘的時候需要您所以您可以請坐沒關係沒關係我就請部長來這樣好那個下一頁\n\n00:35.106 --> 01:00.617\n我們有一位委員問到教師荒我很謝謝他引用我記者會所講的五個原因我當時辦這個記者會其實第一個是跟教育部對話因為教育部在去年發生的時候說是過渡期說是代理教師荒可是其實我的研究發現不是代理教師荒我們再看下一頁\n\n01:01.317 --> 01:20.523\n因為如果是代理教師荒的話不會去年也缺人結果今年還是缺因為當時我們潘部長講說是過度期因為我們為代理教師已經做了相當多的政策改變那我們部長應該了解因為當時也是我非常關注代理教師的同工不同酬的問題\n\n01:21.363 --> 01:21.523\n下一頁\n\n01:35.605 --> 01:55.876\n我拜託教育部幫我去跟縣市政府要來的資料,我們以臺北市為例,這個左邊是他們去年正式教師,你看到我圈起來的79,是他其實缺400多人,增到300多人,還缺79人正式教師。\n\n01:57.077 --> 02:24.679\n右邊是今年缺額更大他期望招400多人只招到200多人缺了183個正式教師那是因為正式教師缺不到人所以才會再去徵代理教師所以代理教師這個制度原本是因為有人懷孕或者照顧假的一個制度可是現在居然變成是在補正式教師資據說不只一年的不足\n\n02:25.420 --> 02:31.695\n我跟國教署請教過幾次我發現國教署跟教育部沒有真的瞭解這個問題下一張是要給\n\n02:34.694 --> 03:01.189\n院長看的這個是我辦公室自己找出來的數字從你們的教育部的統計年報因為你沒有這個統計我們自己去算出來的我們看一一我們看這個連續幾年院長你可以看一下左邊這個圖的藍色的是有教師資格的就是考上有教師證的下面那個黃色是他過去三年內有來參與爭試的\n\n03:03.911 --> 03:22.966\n因為你有證照就好像護士一樣護理師有證照不代表他會來應徵嘛那黃色的是來應徵的你看到藍色其實逐年是上升的有越來越多人有這個教師診考上這個資格可是下面黃色你看他越來越少人在三年內來參與這個教師的徵試\n\n03:27.649 --> 03:43.128\n所以我們在看右邊這個圖我來算統計那教育部一直覺得說其實有教師資格的人很多我們一直在培訓可是你會發現從原本有4成的人3年內他會來爭取這個工作去應徵\n\n03:44.289 --> 04:12.094\n可是現在只剩下幾乎三分之一從4乘2掉到34%就是現在教育部居然沒有最新的資料只有到111年我的統計願意考教師的人只剩下三分之一有66%的他有失陪取得資格可是卻連去應聘都不願意這是我們現在遇到的最大的危機下一頁\n\n04:13.612 --> 04:38.788\n那呃那我也要跟院長報告這不是只是臺灣的問題哦那我看到陸續看到這些新聞那我今年暑假去教育最高最厲害的愛沙尼亞跟芬蘭哦披薩都是數一數二的哦他們也發生教師罷工哦教師荒的問題哦我們看一下從法國意大利日本哦三成以上的教師哦被認為是過勞死線那你看到美國\n\n04:39.708 --> 04:57.129\n英國居然政府還主張用居家工作彈性工時吸引大家投入教師美國鬧教師荒還有提到說要週休三日是不是能夠讓有志之士願意投入大家都知道教師非常重要\n\n04:57.449 --> 05:15.557\n那你可以看到全球我不知道原因也許是3C產品年輕世代越來越難教那也許是我們對教師的要求越來越多所以臺灣不是唯一面對這個的處境可是我們跟別的國家比我們現在有沒有找到解方真正找到問題\n\n05:16.457 --> 05:36.542\n我想看下一頁那台灣的部分那如果一直認知是代理教師荒那就是教育部沒有看到那我們看到就是一些表面上的媒體的分析都還嘗試錯誤的那大家至少看到是年輕世代他們不願意投入這個行業那往下看下一頁\n\n05:37.948 --> 06:06.625\n這個就是剛剛有委員引用到的我這個五個分析那我結合幾大教師會跟教師公會在今年教師節那針對教師荒提出五個原因那今天我只跟院長討論前三個我提出的五個原因剛剛有委員他有用我這個講法第一個是108課綱給的全新備課資源少我認為108課綱方向是對的我們看到民主國家的方向是這樣\n\n06:07.165 --> 06:23.971\n可是呢108課綱對師資的要求跟能力是更高的那我們給的備課資源少。第二個還是回到對老師來講各項加擠過低不符合他耗費心理他多開一門課其實他基本上沒有得到更好的待遇\n\n06:24.551 --> 06:44.498\n第三個是行政繁重偏離教學專業。行政繁重有非常多的原因包含我後面幾個就是性貧、霸凌、教師疲累還有校園職場不管是校長霸凌、主管霸凌甚至有老師認為家長都在霸凌那是一個很不友善的職場\n\n06:45.498 --> 07:12.352\n那這我今天就針對前三項想跟院長討論那也要跟院長報告教育部其實有在努力解決這個問題那教育部的解方是什麼第一個下一個下一頁教育部針對行政繁重目前的解方是針對兼任的行政教師提高加緊那可是我要覺得說其實這是不足的我待會會提到我認為是人力\n\n07:13.993 --> 07:14.073\n下一頁\n\n07:36.616 --> 07:49.874\n針對108課綱,教育部也一直在改善。目前教育部的解方是增加教師研習時數,補助終點費。這個解方有沒有用?我請院長看下一張我自己做的數字。\n\n07:51.676 --> 08:12.150\n我們看一下教育部說要補助終點費院長你看上面那條線是基本工資基本工資這是19年來的資料66元一小時漲到190塊是不是漲了超過三倍那我們民進黨政府裡面漲特別多對不對可是我們如果把教師終點費19年來看從260塊漲到336元欸只漲了29%欸\n\n08:21.016 --> 08:38.491\n那要跟院長報告,你說教師中年費本來就比去便利商店打工高嘛,不能這樣想,因為備課的時數沒有算進去,對不對?他教一門課,尤其是108課綱這種新課,背後不是只是教書那一小時欸,\n\n08:39.652 --> 09:04.472\n所以對教師來講我會講這種加級長的方式事實上不符合耗費心理如果你跟第一線老師討論他就覺得那我教原來的那些就好了我為什麼要投入所以其實就目前教育部的解方我認為也並沒有真的能夠解決教師荒的問題尤其是對年輕世代那我們再看下一頁\n\n09:05.578 --> 09:33.572\n院長這是我非常認同的院長應該看得出來你知不知道這張是哪裡來的院長曉不曉得6到18歲多元均優教育環境成就每個兒少沒關係那個院長可能看的資料量太多了這是我們賴清德總統的政見教育方面的那我就不一項一項列入了我要跟院長報告我非常認同賴總統的教育政見\n\n09:34.292 --> 09:53.545\n只是它裡面少了一個東西,它每個政見都要教師做更多,包含歧視性平那些我都也很認同,可是針對如何達到這個多元均優的教育環境,以我當大學老師超過10年,師資是最核心的軟實力。\n\n09:55.286 --> 10:23.107\n如果教師荒,我們再好的政見沒有優質的老師投入,年輕世代甚至有人寧願去當警消,離開教職真的有這樣的例子。因為他下班就是下班了,教師下班,家長可能還會打電話給他。所以我想下一頁我要講的是好的教育,我們賴總統的政見很好,可是需要教師投入更多,\n\n10:23.627 --> 10:49.333\n每個都教師要投入更多可是我們卻沒有給教師實質更多的支持那我覺得這是目前很大的一個危機那再看下一頁所以我今天的這塊板子坐在這裡其實是要幫我們教育部跟教師向院長請命我覺得需要人事行政總處跟主計總處共同來\n\n10:51.853 --> 11:16.741\n提供資源為什麼需要提供資源以下是我的解方我不知道下一頁我不知道部長是不是認同我覺得你們現在那個解方還是不夠以我看到這個問題的本質那你們的統計分析也還沒有找出那當然這是可以討論的這我提出來的解方是不是最好的解方那但是我想你們目前對外的回應都還沒有真的了解問題\n\n11:18.322 --> 11:42.747\n第一個,我認為不能只給錢啊,你行政加擠給更多錢可是因為工作量真的太大了,就是說原本的人在分擔這麼多的工作,我覺得行政應該要專職化,就是人事行政總署、主計總署應該要給教育體系更多的人力,要增設行政專職人力,讓老師專心做老師。\n\n11:45.287 --> 12:11.161\n那第二個我認為108課綱那現在的方式可能會緩不濟急那剛剛其實有委員談到非常多人為什麼小學就去補習我的理解是因為我們有些城市私立中學被認為比較好他其實是為了要考私中但是擔心108課綱在公立學校的開出的課不夠多那這是我初步的觀察\n\n12:11.621 --> 12:32.713\n那我認為一個比較快速的解決方式當然我們師資這邊培育可以加強就是108課綱其實我們可以去增聘專業的師資不管是社區大學的講師或者各方面有各種專才的也許會是一個要求老師開課開更多的課我覺得會是一個那這也是需要錢\n\n12:33.593 --> 12:52.926\n第三個我想目前的教師的終點費調升方案跟教師的薪資真的不符合他們的據說付出我剛已經拿基本工資因為如果去超商下班就下班那可以漲這麼多那為什麼當老師只有漲19年房29%\n\n12:55.908 --> 13:19.919\n那這三個解方真的不是教育部可以單獨完成的都需要院長支持人事行政總署跟主計總署一起來那院長是不是可以承諾說協助人跟錢呢幫助教育部真正解決這個教師荒的問題那讓我們賴總統很好的教育政見真的可以好好的落實呢\n\n13:20.319 --> 13:20.499\n主席\n\n13:34.175 --> 14:00.850\n好謝謝委員在臺灣的社會教師應該本來是一個穩定受尊重而且有成就感的工作但是經過這樣的變化之後他變成一個行政外務壓力大而且不友善的職場環境甚至於他因為學習方式的改變也改變了師生之間的關係這個是現實社會那教育的預算雖然不是憲法的明文規定但是我們編列在百分之十\n\n14:02.291 --> 14:18.454\n二十三這個數字是一直長年在達到這個目標的,所以它是非常龐大的,而且我也知道在所有教育預算當中有很大的比例是在人事的預算方面,但就儘管如此,我們對於這些剛剛委員所提出的\n\n14:19.683 --> 14:36.184\n幾個不合理,該增加人的,或者是就增加福利的部分,我們還是願意很誠懇地去檢討,在現有的機制底下去做一個合理性的調整,那我會請教育部來進一步往這個方向想,來提出一個說明跟報告。\n\n14:37.330 --> 15:03.623\n那還是請院長也考慮人力的部分也要增加因為行政專職化就目前學校裡面的行政工作那讓教師可以專心教書我會覺得是根本解決的部分要不然你原本的勞務這麼的多我們剛講到不管是霸凌、性平各方面還有我們的普特融合那其實增加了非常多的行政工作量那院長還是希望您可以考慮好嗎\n\n15:04.343 --> 15:04.423\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.908,"end":2.929,"text":"謝謝副院長,有請院長"},{"start":15.049,"end":28.268,"text":"范雲好院長早您辛苦了那今天我主要是也關注在教師荒那大概只有最後3、5分鐘的時候需要您所以您可以請坐沒關係沒關係我就請部長來這樣好那個下一頁"},{"start":35.106,"end":60.617,"text":"我們有一位委員問到教師荒我很謝謝他引用我記者會所講的五個原因我當時辦這個記者會其實第一個是跟教育部對話因為教育部在去年發生的時候說是過渡期說是代理教師荒可是其實我的研究發現不是代理教師荒我們再看下一頁"},{"start":61.317,"end":80.523,"text":"因為如果是代理教師荒的話不會去年也缺人結果今年還是缺因為當時我們潘部長講說是過度期因為我們為代理教師已經做了相當多的政策改變那我們部長應該了解因為當時也是我非常關注代理教師的同工不同酬的問題"},{"start":81.363,"end":81.523,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":95.605,"end":115.876,"text":"我拜託教育部幫我去跟縣市政府要來的資料,我們以臺北市為例,這個左邊是他們去年正式教師,你看到我圈起來的79,是他其實缺400多人,增到300多人,還缺79人正式教師。"},{"start":117.077,"end":144.679,"text":"右邊是今年缺額更大他期望招400多人只招到200多人缺了183個正式教師那是因為正式教師缺不到人所以才會再去徵代理教師所以代理教師這個制度原本是因為有人懷孕或者照顧假的一個制度可是現在居然變成是在補正式教師資據說不只一年的不足"},{"start":145.42,"end":151.695,"text":"我跟國教署請教過幾次我發現國教署跟教育部沒有真的瞭解這個問題下一張是要給"},{"start":154.694,"end":181.189,"text":"院長看的這個是我辦公室自己找出來的數字從你們的教育部的統計年報因為你沒有這個統計我們自己去算出來的我們看一一我們看這個連續幾年院長你可以看一下左邊這個圖的藍色的是有教師資格的就是考上有教師證的下面那個黃色是他過去三年內有來參與爭試的"},{"start":183.911,"end":202.966,"text":"因為你有證照就好像護士一樣護理師有證照不代表他會來應徵嘛那黃色的是來應徵的你看到藍色其實逐年是上升的有越來越多人有這個教師診考上這個資格可是下面黃色你看他越來越少人在三年內來參與這個教師的徵試"},{"start":207.649,"end":223.128,"text":"所以我們在看右邊這個圖我來算統計那教育部一直覺得說其實有教師資格的人很多我們一直在培訓可是你會發現從原本有4成的人3年內他會來爭取這個工作去應徵"},{"start":224.289,"end":252.094,"text":"可是現在只剩下幾乎三分之一從4乘2掉到34%就是現在教育部居然沒有最新的資料只有到111年我的統計願意考教師的人只剩下三分之一有66%的他有失陪取得資格可是卻連去應聘都不願意這是我們現在遇到的最大的危機下一頁"},{"start":253.612,"end":278.788,"text":"那呃那我也要跟院長報告這不是只是臺灣的問題哦那我看到陸續看到這些新聞那我今年暑假去教育最高最厲害的愛沙尼亞跟芬蘭哦披薩都是數一數二的哦他們也發生教師罷工哦教師荒的問題哦我們看一下從法國意大利日本哦三成以上的教師哦被認為是過勞死線那你看到美國"},{"start":279.708,"end":297.129,"text":"英國居然政府還主張用居家工作彈性工時 吸引大家投入教師美國鬧教師荒 還有提到說要週休三日 是不是能夠讓有志之士願意投入 大家都知道教師非常重要"},{"start":297.449,"end":315.557,"text":"那你可以看到全球我不知道原因也許是3C產品年輕世代越來越難教那也許是我們對教師的要求越來越多所以臺灣不是唯一面對這個的處境可是我們跟別的國家比我們現在有沒有找到解方真正找到問題"},{"start":316.457,"end":336.542,"text":"我想看下一頁那台灣的部分那如果一直認知是代理教師荒那就是教育部沒有看到那我們看到就是一些表面上的媒體的分析都還嘗試錯誤的那大家至少看到是年輕世代他們不願意投入這個行業那往下看下一頁"},{"start":337.948,"end":366.625,"text":"這個就是剛剛有委員引用到的我這個五個分析那我結合幾大教師會跟教師公會在今年教師節那針對教師荒提出五個原因那今天我只跟院長討論前三個我提出的五個原因剛剛有委員他有用我這個講法第一個是108課綱給的全新備課資源少我認為108課綱方向是對的我們看到民主國家的方向是這樣"},{"start":367.165,"end":383.971,"text":"可是呢108課綱對師資的要求跟能力是更高的那我們給的備課資源少。 第二個還是回到對老師來講各項加擠過低不符合他耗費心理他多開一門課其實他基本上沒有得到更好的待遇"},{"start":384.551,"end":404.498,"text":"第三個是行政繁重偏離教學專業。 行政繁重有非常多的原因包含我後面幾個就是性貧、霸凌、教師疲累還有校園職場不管是校長霸凌、主管霸凌甚至有老師認為家長都在霸凌那是一個很不友善的職場"},{"start":405.498,"end":432.352,"text":"那這我今天就針對前三項想跟院長討論那也要跟院長報告教育部其實有在努力解決這個問題那教育部的解方是什麼第一個下一個下一頁教育部針對行政繁重目前的解方是針對兼任的行政教師提高加緊那可是我要覺得說其實這是不足的我待會會提到我認為是人力"},{"start":433.993,"end":434.073,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":456.616,"end":469.874,"text":"針對108課綱,教育部也一直在改善。 目前教育部的解方是增加教師研習時數,補助終點費。 這個解方有沒有用?我請院長看下一張我自己做的數字。"},{"start":471.676,"end":492.15,"text":"我們看一下教育部說要補助終點費 院長你看上面那條線是基本工資基本工資這是19年來的資料 66元一小時漲到190塊是不是漲了超過三倍 那我們民進黨政府裡面漲特別多對不對可是我們如果把教師終點費19年來看從260塊漲到336元 欸只漲了29%欸"},{"start":501.016,"end":518.491,"text":"那要跟院長報告,你說教師中年費本來就比去便利商店打工高嘛,不能這樣想,因為備課的時數沒有算進去,對不對?他教一門課,尤其是108課綱這種新課,背後不是只是教書那一小時欸,"},{"start":519.652,"end":544.472,"text":"所以對教師來講我會講這種加級長的方式事實上不符合耗費心理如果你跟第一線老師討論他就覺得那我教原來的那些就好了我為什麼要投入所以其實就目前教育部的解方我認為也並沒有真的能夠解決教師荒的問題尤其是對年輕世代那我們再看下一頁"},{"start":545.578,"end":573.572,"text":"院長這是我非常認同的院長應該看得出來你知不知道這張是哪裡來的院長曉不曉得6到18歲多元均優教育環境成就每個兒少沒關係那個院長可能看的資料量太多了這是我們賴清德總統的政見教育方面的那我就不一項一項列入了我要跟院長報告我非常認同賴總統的教育政見"},{"start":574.292,"end":593.545,"text":"只是它裡面少了一個東西,它每個政見都要教師做更多,包含歧視性平那些我都也很認同,可是針對如何達到這個多元均優的教育環境,以我當大學老師超過10年,師資是最核心的軟實力。"},{"start":595.286,"end":623.107,"text":"如果教師荒,我們再好的政見沒有優質的老師投入,年輕世代甚至有人寧願去當警消,離開教職真的有這樣的例子。因為他下班就是下班了,教師下班,家長可能還會打電話給他。所以我想下一頁我要講的是好的教育,我們賴總統的政見很好,可是需要教師投入更多,"},{"start":623.627,"end":649.333,"text":"每個都教師要投入更多可是我們卻沒有給教師實質更多的支持那我覺得這是目前很大的一個危機那再看下一頁所以我今天的這塊板子坐在這裡其實是要幫我們教育部跟教師向院長請命我覺得需要人事行政總處跟主計總處共同來"},{"start":651.853,"end":676.741,"text":"提供資源為什麼需要提供資源以下是我的解方我不知道下一頁我不知道部長是不是認同我覺得你們現在那個解方還是不夠以我看到這個問題的本質那你們的統計分析也還沒有找出那當然這是可以討論的這我提出來的解方是不是最好的解方那但是我想你們目前對外的回應都還沒有真的了解問題"},{"start":678.322,"end":702.747,"text":"第一個,我認為不能只給錢啊,你行政加擠給更多錢可是因為工作量真的太大了,就是說原本的人在分擔這麼多的工作,我覺得行政應該要專職化,就是人事行政總署、主計總署應該要給教育體系更多的人力,要增設行政專職人力,讓老師專心做老師。"},{"start":705.287,"end":731.161,"text":"那第二個我認為108課綱那現在的方式可能會緩不濟急那剛剛其實有委員談到非常多人為什麼小學就去補習我的理解是因為我們有些城市私立中學被認為比較好他其實是為了要考私中但是擔心108課綱在公立學校的開出的課不夠多那這是我初步的觀察"},{"start":731.621,"end":752.713,"text":"那我認為一個比較快速的解決方式當然我們師資這邊培育可以加強就是108課綱其實我們可以去增聘專業的師資不管是社區大學的講師或者各方面有各種專才的也許會是一個要求老師開課開更多的課我覺得會是一個那這也是需要錢"},{"start":753.593,"end":772.926,"text":"第三個我想目前的教師的終點費調升方案跟教師的薪資真的不符合他們的據說付出我剛已經拿基本工資因為如果去超商下班就下班那可以漲這麼多那為什麼當老師只有漲19年房29%"},{"start":775.908,"end":799.919,"text":"那這三個解方真的不是教育部可以單獨完成的都需要院長支持人事行政總署跟主計總署一起來那院長是不是可以承諾說協助人跟錢呢幫助教育部真正解決這個教師荒的問題那讓我們賴總統很好的教育政見真的可以好好的落實呢"},{"start":800.319,"end":800.499,"text":"主席"},{"start":814.175,"end":840.85,"text":"好謝謝委員在臺灣的社會教師應該本來是一個穩定受尊重而且有成就感的工作但是經過這樣的變化之後他變成一個行政外務壓力大而且不友善的職場環境甚至於他因為學習方式的改變也改變了師生之間的關係這個是現實社會那教育的預算雖然不是憲法的明文規定但是我們編列在百分之十"},{"start":842.291,"end":858.454,"text":"二十三這個數字是一直長年在達到這個目標的,所以它是非常龐大的,而且我也知道在所有教育預算當中有很大的比例是在人事的預算方面,但就儘管如此,我們對於這些剛剛委員所提出的"},{"start":859.683,"end":876.184,"text":"幾個不合理,該增加人的,或者是就增加福利的部分,我們還是願意很誠懇地去檢討,在現有的機制底下去做一個合理性的調整,那我會請教育部來進一步往這個方向想,來提出一個說明跟報告。"},{"start":877.33,"end":903.623,"text":"那還是請院長也考慮人力的部分也要增加因為行政專職化就目前學校裡面的行政工作那讓教師可以專心教書我會覺得是根本解決的部分要不然你原本的勞務這麼的多我們剛講到不管是霸凌、性平各方面還有我們的普特融合那其實增加了非常多的行政工作量那院長還是希望您可以考慮好嗎"},{"start":904.343,"end":904.423,"text":"主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-4","title":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-15T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:18:40 - 11:34:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","id":155472,"gazette":{"lineno":726,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時18分）謝謝副院長，有請院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：范委員好。"],["范委員雲：院長早，您辛苦了，今天我主要也是關注在教師荒，大概只有最後三、五分鐘的時候需要您，所以您可以請坐，沒關係。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒關係，我就……你請部長來。"],["范委員雲：好。剛剛也有委員問到教師荒，我很謝謝他引用我在記者會所講的五個原因，我當時辦這個記者會其實第一個是跟教育部對話，因為教育部在去年發生的時候說是過渡期，然後說是代理教師荒，可是其實我的研究發現不是代理教師荒，因為如果是代理教師荒的話，不會去年也缺人，結果今年還是缺。當時潘部長說是過渡期，因為我們為代理教師已經做了相當多的政策改變，部長應該了解，因為當時我也是非常關注代理教師同工不同酬的問題，但是今年還是缺人，表面上看起來是個過渡期，以下資料就是要跟院長報告，其實這不是過渡期，這是個嚴肅的問題，所以我才會召開那個記者會。","這是我拜託教育部幫我去跟縣市政府要來的資料，我們以臺北市為例，左邊是他們去年徵正式教師，你看到我圈起來的79，它其實是缺四百多人，徵到三百多人，還缺79個正式教師；右邊是今年，缺額更大，它希望招四百多人，只招到兩百多人，缺了183個正式教師，那是因為正式教師徵不到人，所以才會再去徵代理教師。代理教師這個制度，原本是因為有人懷孕或是照顧假的一個制度，可是現在居然變成是在補正式教師，所以是不只一年的不足，我跟國教署請教過幾次，但我發現國教署跟教育部沒有真的了解這個問題。","下一張是要給院長看的，這個是我辦公室自己找出來的數字，從教育部的統計年報，因為你們沒有這個統計，是我們自己去算出來的。我們看連續幾年，院長，你可以看一下，左邊這個圖的藍色是有教師資格的，就是考上、有教師證的；下面那個黃色是過去三年內有來參與甄試的，因為他有證照，就好像是護理師一樣，有證照不代表他會來應徵，黃色是來應徵的。你看到藍色其實逐年是上升的，有越來越多人有教師證、考上這個資格，可是下面的黃色，你看越來越少人在三年內來參與教師的甄試。我們再看右邊這個圖，我來算並統計，教育部一直覺得其實有教師資格的人很多，我們一直在培訓，可是你會發現，從原本有四成的人三年內會來應徵爭取這個工作，可是現在只剩下幾乎三分之一，從四成二掉到34%，現在教育部居然沒有最新的資料，只有到111年，依我的統計，願意考教師的人只剩下三分之一，有66%是有師培取得資格，可是卻連去應聘都不願意，這是我們現在遇到的最大危機。","當然我也要跟院長報告，這不只是臺灣的問題，我陸續看到這些新聞，我今年暑假去教育最高、最厲害的愛沙尼亞跟芬蘭，PISA都是數一數二的，他們也發生教師罷工、教師荒的問題。我們看一下，從法國、義大利，日本三成以上的教師被認為達過勞死線；你看到美國、英國，居然政府還主張用居家工作、彈性工時來吸引大家投入教師，美國鬧教師荒，還有提到要週休三日，看是不是能夠讓有志之士願意投入。大家都知道教師非常重要，你可以看到全球，我不知道原因，也許是3C產品讓年輕世代越來越難教，也許是我們對教師的要求越來越多，所以臺灣不是唯一面對這個處境的，可是我們跟別的國家比，我們現在有沒有找到解方、真正找到問題？","臺灣的部分，如果一直認知是代理教師荒，那就是教育部沒有看到，我們看到一些表面上的媒體分析都還常是錯誤的，大家至少看到的是年輕世代不願意投入這個行業。這一頁就是剛剛有委員引用到的我的五個分析，我結合幾大教師會跟教師工會，在今年教師節針對教師荒提出五個原因，今天我只跟院長討論前三個。我提出的五個原因，剛剛有委員引用我的講法，第一個是108課綱給的全新備課支援少，我認為108課綱方向是對的，我們看到民主國家的方向是這樣，可是108課綱對師資的要求跟能力是更高的，但我們給的備課支援少。第二個，還是回到對老師來講，各項加給過低，不符合他耗費心力，他多開一門課，基本上，他其實沒有得到更好的待遇。第三個是行政繁重，偏離教學專業，行政繁重有非常多的原因，包含後面幾個，就是性平霸凌頻傳、教師疲累，還有校園職場霸凌，不管是校長霸凌，就是主管霸凌，甚至有老師認為連家長都在霸凌，那是一個很不友善的職場。我今天就針對前三項想跟院長討論，也要跟院長報告，教育部其實也有在努力解決這個問題，教育部的解方是什麼？第一個，教育部針對行政繁重目前的解方是，針對兼任的行政教師提高加給，可是我覺得其實這是不足的，我待會會提到，我認為是人力的問題，我們現在聘用辦公室助理都知道，你有時候加薪，可是工作量沒有減少的話，其實助理還是有可能會選擇離開，因為年輕世代他們對工作的想像，也跟過去的世代不一樣，所以教育部有在努力，可是我覺得這個解方還是不足的。","針對108課綱，教育部也一直在改善，目前教育部的解方是增加教師研習時數、補助鐘點費，這個解方有沒有用？我請院長看下一張我自己做的數字，我們看一下，教育部說要補助鐘點費，院長，你看上面那一條線是基本工資，這是這19年來的資料，從1小時66元漲到190塊，是不是漲了超過3倍？在我們民進黨政府執政期間漲得特別多，對不對？可是我們如果來看這19年來的教師鐘點費，從260塊漲到336元，只漲了29%。要跟院長報告，你說教師鐘點費本來就比去便利商店打工高，不能這樣想，因為備課的時數沒有算進去，對不對？他教一門課，尤其108課綱是一種新課，背後付出的不是只是教書那一小時，所以對教師來講，我要講這種加給漲的方式，事實上不符合耗費的心力，如果你跟第一線老師討論，他就覺得那我教原來的那些就好了，我為什麼要投入？所以其實就目前教育部的解方來說，我認為並沒有真的解決教師荒的問題，尤其是對年輕世代。","我們再看下一頁，院長，這是我非常認同的政見，院長應該看得出來，你知不知道這張是從哪裡來的？院長曉不曉得？「6到18歲多元均優教育環境，成就每個兒少」沒關係，院長可能看的資料量太多了，這是我們賴清德總統教育方面的政見，那我就不一項一項列入了。我要跟院長報告，我非常認同賴總統的教育政見，只是裡面少了一個東西，他每個政見都要教師做更多，包含歧視性平的部分，那些我也都很認同，可是針對如何達到多元均優的教育環境，以我當大學老師超過10年來說，師資是最核心的軟實力，如果教師荒，我們再好的政見，沒有優質的老師投入也沒辦法做，年輕世代甚至有人寧願去當警消，離開教職，真的有這樣的例子，因為他下班就是下班了，教師下班了家長可能還會打電話給他。所以我要講的是，我們賴總統的政見很好，可是好的教育需要教師投入更多，每個都要教師投入更多，可是我們卻沒有給教師更多實質的支持，我覺得這是目前很大的一個危機。","所以我今天做這塊板子在這裡，其實是要幫教育部跟教師向院長請命，我覺得需要人事行政總處跟主計總處共同來提供資源，為什麼需要提供資源？以下是我的解方，我不知道部長是不是認同？我覺得你們現在那個解方還是不夠，以我看到的這個問題的本質，你們的統計分析也還沒有找出來，當然這是可以討論的，我提出來的解方不一定是最好的解方，但是我想你們目前對外的回應都還沒有真的瞭解問題。第一個，我認為不能只給錢啦！雖然行政加給給更多錢，可是因為工作量真的太大了，就是原本的人在分擔這麼多的工作，我覺得行政應該要專職化，人事行政總處、主計總處應該要給教育體系更多的人力，要增設行政專職人力，讓老師專心做老師。第二個，我認為108課綱現在的方式可能會緩不濟急，剛剛其實有委員談到，為什麼非常多人小學就去補習？我的理解是因為我們有些城市私立中學被認為比較好，他其實是為了要考私中，擔心108課綱在公立學校開出的課不夠多，這是我初步的觀察。我認為一個比較快速的解決方式，當然師資這邊培育可以加強，108課綱其實我們可以去增聘專業的師資，不管是社區大學講師或者各方面有各種專才的，也許要求老師開更多的課，我覺得會是一個，這也是需要錢。第三個，我想目前的教師鐘點費調升方案跟教師的薪資，真的不符合他們的付出，我剛剛已經拿基本工資做比較，因為如果去超商，下班就下班，可以漲這麼多，那為什麼當老師19年只有漲29%？","這三個解方真的不是教育部可以單獨完成的，都需要院長支持，人事行政總處跟主計總處一起來，院長是不是可以承諾協助人跟錢，幫助教育部真正解決教師荒的問題，讓我們賴總統很好的教育政見真的可以好好的落實呢？今天我花這麼多時間，就是希望把這個問題講清楚，我知道要卓院長的協助，光靠教育部它就只能夠在增加一點點小錢的方向上努力。以上，不知道院長是否認同？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。在臺灣的社會，教師本來應該是一個穩定、受尊重，而且有成就感的工作，但是經過這樣的變化之後，變成一個行政外務壓力大，而且不友善的職場環境，甚至於因為學習方式的改變，也改變了師生之間的關係，這個是現實社會。教育的預算雖然不是憲法的明文規定，但是我們編列在23%這個數字，是一直長年達到這個目標的，所以它是非常龐大的，而且我也知道在教育預算當中有很大的比例是在人事的預算方面。但儘管如此，我們對於剛剛委員所提出的幾個不合理，該增加人的或者是增加福利的部分，像鐘點費的調整，我們還是願意很誠懇地去檢討，在現有的機制底下去做一個合理性的調整，我會請教育部儘速往這個方向想，來提出一個說明跟報告。"],["范委員雲：好，還是請院長也考慮，人力的部分也要增加……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["范委員雲：因為行政專職化，就目前學校裡面的行政工作，讓教師可以專心教書，我會覺得是根本解決的部分，要不然原本的勞務這麼的多，我們剛剛講到不管是霸凌、性平各方面，還有普特融合，其實增加了非常多的行政工作量，院長，還是希望您可以考慮好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們請教育部趕快往這個方向來做一個思考，跟委員再請教。"],["范委員雲：好，最後有關3C的部分，是我要辦的一個公聽會，我想這也是數位時代的共同議題，到時候也希望教育部一起來好好的回應。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["范委員雲：謝謝院長，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":179,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃珊珊","林楚茵","葛如鈞","林德福","鄭正鈐","林沛祥","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","范雲","謝衣鳯","莊瑞雄","黃建賓","陳秀寳","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅美玲","黃捷","張雅琳","李坤城","王美惠"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00003","1137801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137801_00004"}}}