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那是過去,我知道,這是過去累計虧損4,219億嘛,這是過去。 那我們期待臺電的營運能夠越區健全,就是要接近反應成本的越區健全。那明年它電價會不會調整,不是現在我說,當然是明年審議委員會,我期待,我期待。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 345.979, \"end\": 346.119, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 346.119, \"end\": 346.479, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 346.479, \"end\": 348.0, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 348.0, \"end\": 348.301, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 348.301, \"end\": 348.481, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 348.481, \"end\": 348.701, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 348.701, \"end\": 349.581, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"烏\"}, {\"word\": \"鶴\"}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 349.581, \"end\": 350.082, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 350.082, 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 686.7, \"end\": 687.28, \"text\": \"目前這個道明大學\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 686.7, \"end\": 686.86, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 686.86, \"end\": 686.88, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 686.88, \"end\": 686.96, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 686.96, \"end\": 687.08, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 687.08, \"end\": 687.26, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 687.26, \"end\": 687.28, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 716.648, \"end\": 743.253, \"text\": \"明道大學這個退場他是由這個衛福部要準備這個來接管那也就是說他希望在那邊 張化縣政府跟衛福部共同嘛 對不對衛福部他做那個藥草的那個草藥員 中醫藥草藥員那其他的就是體育設施以及校舍相關的部分是由張化縣政府來共同接管嘛 主要的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 716.648, \"end\": 716.748, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 716.748, \"end\": 716.988, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 716.988, \"end\": 717.148, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": 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00:01:26,663\n呃,第一個他不是在只是為了健全他的資本,不是健全他的財務,他不是健全他的財務,因為今年我們在電價調整當中,民生用電是非常的穩定的,是沒有調整的,那從這裡做一些補貼的政策,讓台電自己去\n\n5\n00:01:27,779 --> 00:01:27,939\n臨時提案委員\n\n6\n00:01:43,317 --> 00:01:43,917\n那今年我們還有一項就是他的這個\n\n7\n00:02:01,423 --> 00:02:01,823\n明年呢?\n\n8\n00:02:01,823 --> 00:02:03,004\n明年你們預計那個經濟部還要再撥補台電?\n\n9\n00:02:03,004 --> 00:02:04,706\n我們照最近這一次的調整之後幾項原則,第一個是反應成本\n\n10\n00:02:19,957 --> 00:02:20,177\n我跟院長說\n\n11\n00:02:41,956 --> 00:02:54,891\n補債資本跟補債營業收入是不一樣的,這是台電的損益表,1到8月最新的,我昨天晚上才抓下來的,它的稅前盈餘,稅前虧損現在是400億,\n\n12\n00:02:58,161 --> 00:03:14,119\n現在是400億的情況下如果我們今年度行政院追加的臺電的1000億的預算是補在營業收入的話那現在稅錢馬上就會由虧轉營變成600億\n\n13\n00:03:17,262 --> 00:03:38,993\n你稅前盈餘就會有600億這600億在到就是今年度的會計年度結束以後它就會變成稅後盈餘稅後盈餘就可以打消我們資產負債表裡面現在目前台電4,219億的虧損是不是\n\n14\n00:03:43,720 --> 00:04:03,891\n如果台電是用這樣的財務的計算方式來看,我們將來在提出追加預算的說明當中,他應該進一步說明將來的用途。是不是這樣子?如果是這樣子,他可以立即的打消他4,219億的累積虧損。所以我們說今年的追加預算,一方面是\n\n15\n00:04:04,775 --> 00:04:06,535\n我們4月已經漲一次電價了明天即將第二次調整我們的工業用電\n\n16\n00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:48,817\n總共的調幅是12%左右那今年4月到現在調整電價已經讓臺電增加1000億的稅前盈餘了那第二次的調漲電價會不會增加更多然後如果目前我們現在是追加1000億嘛\n\n17\n00:04:49,918 --> 00:05:13,469\n如果你是補債收入的話那我們馬上就可以打消它的累計虧損再加上明天開始的調漲電價有可能我們就可以馬上的來打消台電的這個虧損如果這個情況下我想請問院長的是明年還需要撥補嗎還是我們馬上刪除\n\n18\n00:05:16,910 --> 00:05:44,839\n還是等到看到了今年漲電價的這個結果﹖打消累計虧損的結果以後﹖我們再來決定明年要不要再追加一千億的預算﹖畢竟一千億不是一千塊是不是都是人民辛苦的納稅權。院長你怎麼樣決定這個東西你是交給臺電還是最後在院會裡面由院長決定\n\n19\n00:05:45,979 --> 00:06:14,137\n跟委員報告,過去兩三年因為烏鶴戰爭的關係,原物料上漲的幅度是相當大的,那這個都是在臺電的吸收範圍當中,所以我們必須要填補這些東西。那是過去,我知道,這是過去累計虧損4,219億嘛,這是過去。那我們期待臺電的營運能夠越區健全,就是要接近反應成本的越區健全。那明年它電價會不會調整,不是現在我說,當然是明年審議委員會,我期待,我期待。\n\n20\n00:06:15,218 --> 00:06:42,634\n如果按照這樣子的方式其實你們的追加預算的今年1000億的追加預算你就應該把它編在收入馬上打消它的累計虧損未來當然啦等到下一次的電價審議的時候那就不用再調整電價這才是苦民所苦現在民眾已經非常非常苦了\n\n21\n00:06:44,896 --> 00:07:04,537\n現在電價調不調整當然是電價審議委員會了但是我是期待在今年這樣調整之後我們可以穩定一段時間對電價讓它穩定這是我的期待我想任何一個政府的官員都不希望用調整各種的民生費用來增加人民的負擔\n\n22\n00:07:06,118 --> 00:07:29,549\n所以我才在這裡提出建議如果你邊在收入的話那電價審議委員會會不會調整電價也要按照台電目前虧損以及他財務的情況那如果我們按照這樣子財務的規劃的話是不是可以馬上的讓他打消累計虧損而且我想請問的\n\n23\n00:07:30,709 --> 00:07:45,928\n如果按照這個情況把它列在營業收入就是這一千億的撥補列在營業收入的話我想請問卓院長的你要補助哪一些產業是中小企業還是要補助民生用電\n\n24\n00:07:47,083 --> 00:08:04,661\n當然是補助民生用電了,現在今年這一次的調整我們就是補助民生用電以及一些過去這段時間以來它的營業或是用電衰退的我們盡量不予調整,但是所產生出來跟成本之間的差額\n\n25\n00:08:05,402 --> 00:08:23,078\n他還說過去衰退的,那是產業喔,中小企業喔,是不是,你就要撥補在中小企業的一部分而已,比方說我們特別對花東的旅宿業,我們特別要,他真的是經營上的困難,增加就算7%也是困難。\n\n26\n00:08:23,638 --> 00:08:24,318\n國會主委跟教育部長請備詢\n\n27\n00:08:55,916 --> 00:08:59,336\n你們故意走得很慢沒關係我的時間停了\n\n28\n00:09:07,190 --> 00:09:33,027\n吳主委我知道你很關心台積電要不要在德國還有歐洲國家設廠我看到新聞可是你知不知道我們二零我們彰化的縣民也很希望台積電可以來二零中科設廠你知道科學園區也是你的管轄範圍內吧你清楚的了解吧是\n\n29\n00:09:33,936 --> 00:09:57,627\n那對於這個你有什麼你昨天評論了你說說台積電要去德國還有歐洲很多國家設廠那對於我們彰化憲民的判斷你給予什麼樣子的回應我們對於台灣各處的可能發展的基地我們都會協助那彰化20的這個科學園區\n\n30\n00:09:59,980 --> 00:10:15,939\n目前他的基地是比較小,而且當初在...基地不小欸,我們現在只用了一半而已,一半還不到,招商一半還不到,未來我們希望招商更多欸。我們最近...今天是國是會沒來欸,我才跟你講欸。\n\n31\n00:10:17,020 --> 00:10:40,436\n郭志輝也在趕快把這個台積電相關的封測﹖因為我們二林中科是一個低度用水用電﹖他可以做的是半導體裡面的封測﹖有台積電的封測﹖也有相關其他封測的產業﹖郭志輝都在把他們拉攏到產業院去﹖你要不要把他拉攏到科學院去啊?\n\n32\n00:10:41,817 --> 00:10:57,790\n如果條件許可的話,廠商也有意願,我們當然會協助,但是現在目前二零的這個水電的這個需求,因為有受到當初在環境影響評估的時候決議的限制,那個如果我們\n\n33\n00:10:58,610 --> 00:11:23,319\n地方政府願意提及協助。封測可以,那你要不要大地協助。你不要只關心歐洲嘛,你要不要關心我們台灣。報告委員,報告委員。前瞻封測不是像傳統封測一樣。台積電現在需求的是前瞻封測,它也牽涉到晶圓的處理。晶圓的處理需要用到相當大的這個水電,所以條件現在還不符合。那如果說將來地方政府積極去規劃,能夠從產磚區開始。\n\n34\n00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:27,280\n目前這個道明大學\n\n35\n00:11:56,648 --> 00:12:23,253\n明道大學這個退場他是由這個衛福部要準備這個來接管那也就是說他希望在那邊張化縣政府跟衛福部共同嘛對不對衛福部他做那個藥草的那個草藥員中醫藥草藥員那其他的就是體育設施以及校舍相關的部分是由張化縣政府來共同接管嘛主要的\n\n36\n00:12:24,033 --> 00:12:27,314\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n37\n00:12:49,798 --> 00:13:07,154\n我們有非常多的離岸風電那是不是能夠把部分的離岸一小部分提供給當然就是提供給我們彰化的中小企業因為大部分的綠電已經被科學園區的拿去了嘛\n\n38\n00:13:07,614 --> 00:13:19,805\n但是對於中小企業有嫁接到國際綠色供應業裡面的中小企業,他們也需要相關的探權,是不是能夠協助呢?\n\n39\n00:13:23,187 --> 00:13:32,435\n這一個因為我們目前的一個辦法確實就是由衛福部來統籌啦,但是如果他這個整個空間我想我們在整個整體的一個規劃跨部會裡面看怎麼樣來協助這個讓空間能夠做到一個更\n\n40\n00:13:43,922 --> 00:13:58,053\n大學退場的問題,教育部也是其中的一份子,不要再推給微服部,還有行政院的0到6歲國家養的政策,目前推動的情況是如何?\n\n41\n00:13:58,925 --> 00:14:24,747\n我們零到二歲的專班也會在明年開始會增設200班,這個是大家非常…那在彰化縣呢?因為我們彰化縣現在有些鄉鎮是欠缺零到二歲的國嬰的部分,有些鄉鎮欠缺三到六歲幼兒園的部分,那這樣子分配不均的情況下,怎麼樣子發展零到六歲呢?\n\n42\n00:14:25,547 --> 00:14:54,036\n幼兒園跟0到20歲的專班我覺得各地都有需求啦各地都有需求,量還是不夠像我之前到高雄他們說這邊已經有兩班了我們上化縣也有需求啊各地應該透過地方政府趕快整合一下不是高雄有需求全台灣都有需求你怎麼做你要落實這個政見不是只有單一個方向當然是,我說全台灣都有需求趕快提出各縣市的需求那麼有沒有設置的地點要怎麼樣去做合作\n\n43\n00:14:56,937 --> 00:15:20,965\n目前的確在彰化縣的各鄉鎮對於這0到6歲大家都沒有辦法真的知道政見要怎麼落實因為有些部分缺的是0到2歲有些部分缺的是3到6歲在缺的不均勻的情況下這個政見就沒有辦法落實我認為\n\n44\n00:15:26,412 --> 00:15:26,432\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4324\t5991\t謝謝主席。我想要請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。\n18710\t33737\t議員長,早安。我看到前天我們經濟部長說,他說是不是如果兩年以後臺電還是虧損,他就要下臺,是不是?\n36286\t61102\t之前就說過的他認為兩年之後照他的方向可以讓台電調整他的財務健全我也有一些看法啦說不定我的方法比他還快那請委員指教我們很樂意聽我想要問一下就是你們今年追加的台電1000億的預算是跟過去一樣是邊列在台電的就是為了健全台電的財務結構邊在資本還是邊在營業收入\n68171\t86663\t呃,第一個他不是在只是為了健全他的資本,不是健全他的財務,他不是健全他的財務,因為今年我們在電價調整當中,民生用電是非常的穩定的,是沒有調整的,那從這裡做一些補貼的政策,讓台電自己去\n87779\t87939\t臨時提案委員\n103317\t103917\t那今年我們還有一項就是他的這個\n121423\t121823\t明年呢?\n121823\t123004\t明年你們預計那個經濟部還要再撥補台電?\n123004\t124706\t我們照最近這一次的調整之後幾項原則,第一個是反應成本\n139957\t140177\t我跟院長說\n161956\t174891\t補債資本跟補債營業收入是不一樣的,這是台電的損益表,1到8月最新的,我昨天晚上才抓下來的,它的稅前盈餘,稅前虧損現在是400億,\n178161\t194119\t現在是400億的情況下如果我們今年度行政院追加的臺電的1000億的預算是補在營業收入的話那現在稅錢馬上就會由虧轉營變成600億\n197262\t218993\t你稅前盈餘就會有600億這600億在到就是今年度的會計年度結束以後它就會變成稅後盈餘稅後盈餘就可以打消我們資產負債表裡面現在目前台電4,219億的虧損是不是\n223720\t243891\t如果台電是用這樣的財務的計算方式來看,我們將來在提出追加預算的說明當中,他應該進一步說明將來的用途。 是不是這樣子?如果是這樣子,他可以立即的打消他4,219億的累積虧損。 所以我們說今年的追加預算,一方面是\n244775\t246535\t我們4月已經漲一次電價了明天即將第二次調整我們的工業用電\n265880\t288817\t總共的調幅是12%左右那今年4月到現在調整電價已經讓臺電增加1000億的稅前盈餘了那第二次的調漲電價會不會增加更多然後如果目前我們現在是追加1000億嘛\n289918\t313469\t如果你是補債收入的話那我們馬上就可以打消它的累計虧損再加上明天開始的調漲電價有可能我們就可以馬上的來打消台電的這個虧損如果這個情況下我想請問院長的是明年還需要撥補嗎還是我們馬上刪除\n316910\t344839\t還是等到看到了今年漲電價的這個結果﹖打消累計虧損的結果以後﹖我們再來決定明年要不要再追加一千億的預算﹖畢竟一千億不是一千塊是不是都是人民辛苦的納稅權。 院長你怎麼樣決定這個東西你是交給臺電還是最後在院會裡面由院長決定\n345979\t374137\t跟委員報告,過去兩三年因為烏鶴戰爭的關係,原物料上漲的幅度是相當大的,那這個都是在臺電的吸收範圍當中,所以我們必須要填補這些東西。 那是過去,我知道,這是過去累計虧損4,219億嘛,這是過去。 那我們期待臺電的營運能夠越區健全,就是要接近反應成本的越區健全。那明年它電價會不會調整,不是現在我說,當然是明年審議委員會,我期待,我期待。\n375218\t402634\t如果按照這樣子的方式其實你們的追加預算的今年1000億的追加預算你就應該把它編在收入馬上打消它的累計虧損未來當然啦等到下一次的電價審議的時候那就不用再調整電價這才是苦民所苦現在民眾已經非常非常苦了\n404896\t424537\t現在電價調不調整當然是電價審議委員會了但是我是期待在今年這樣調整之後我們可以穩定一段時間對電價讓它穩定這是我的期待我想任何一個政府的官員都不希望用調整各種的民生費用來增加人民的負擔\n426118\t449549\t所以我才在這裡提出建議 如果你邊在收入的話 那電價審議委員會會不會調整電價也要按照台電目前虧損以及他財務的情況 那如果我們按照這樣子財務的規劃的話是不是可以馬上的讓他打消累計虧損 而且我想請問的\n450709\t465928\t如果按照這個情況把它列在營業收入就是這一千億的撥補列在營業收入的話我想請問卓院長的你要補助哪一些產業是中小企業還是要補助民生用電\n467083\t484661\t當然是補助民生用電了,現在今年這一次的調整我們就是補助民生用電以及一些過去這段時間以來它的營業或是用電衰退的我們盡量不予調整,但是所產生出來跟成本之間的差額\n485402\t503078\t他還說過去衰退的,那是產業喔,中小企業喔,是不是,你就要撥補在中小企業的一部分而已,比方說我們特別對花東的旅宿業,我們特別要,他真的是經營上的困難,增加就算7%也是困難。\n503638\t504318\t國會主委跟教育部長請備詢\n535916\t539336\t你們故意走得很慢沒關係我的時間停了\n547190\t573027\t吳主委我知道你很關心台積電要不要在德國還有歐洲國家設廠我看到新聞可是你知不知道我們二零我們彰化的縣民也很希望台積電可以來二零中科設廠你知道科學園區也是你的管轄範圍內吧你清楚的了解吧是\n573936\t597627\t那對於這個你有什麼你昨天評論了你說說台積電要去德國還有歐洲很多國家設廠那對於我們彰化憲民的判斷你給予什麼樣子的回應我們對於台灣各處的可能發展的基地我們都會協助那彰化20的這個科學園區\n599980\t615939\t目前他的基地是比較小,而且當初在...基地不小欸,我們現在只用了一半而已,一半還不到,招商一半還不到,未來我們希望招商更多欸。我們最近...今天是國是會沒來欸,我才跟你講欸。\n617020\t640436\t郭志輝也在趕快把這個台積電相關的封測﹖因為我們二林中科是一個低度用水用電﹖他可以做的是半導體裡面的封測﹖有台積電的封測﹖也有相關其他封測的產業﹖郭志輝都在把他們拉攏到產業院去﹖你要不要把他拉攏到科學院去啊?\n641817\t657790\t如果條件許可的話,廠商也有意願,我們當然會協助,但是現在目前二零的這個水電的這個需求,因為有受到當初在環境影響評估的時候決議的限制,那個如果我們\n658610\t683319\t地方政府願意提及協助。 封測可以,那你要不要大地協助。你不要只關心歐洲嘛,你要不要關心我們台灣。 報告委員,報告委員。 前瞻封測不是像傳統封測一樣。 台積電現在需求的是前瞻封測,它也牽涉到晶圓的處理。 晶圓的處理需要用到相當大的這個水電,所以條件現在還不符合。 那如果說將來地方政府積極去規劃,能夠從產磚區開始。\n686700\t687280\t目前這個道明大學\n716648\t743253\t明道大學這個退場他是由這個衛福部要準備這個來接管那也就是說他希望在那邊 張化縣政府跟衛福部共同嘛 對不對衛福部他做那個藥草的那個草藥員 中醫藥草藥員那其他的就是體育設施以及校舍相關的部分是由張化縣政府來共同接管嘛 主要的\n744033\t747314\t三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n769798\t787154\t我們有非常多的離岸風電那是不是能夠把部分的離岸一小部分提供給當然就是提供給我們彰化的中小企業因為大部分的綠電已經被科學園區的拿去了嘛\n787614\t799805\t但是對於中小企業有嫁接到國際綠色供應業裡面的中小企業,他們也需要相關的探權,是不是能夠協助呢?\n803187\t812435\t這一個因為我們目前的一個辦法確實就是由衛福部來統籌啦,但是如果他這個整個空間我想我們在整個整體的一個規劃跨部會裡面看怎麼樣來協助這個讓空間能夠做到一個更\n823922\t838053\t大學退場的問題,教育部也是其中的一份子,不要再推給微服部,還有行政院的0到6歲國家養的政策,目前推動的情況是如何?\n838925\t864747\t我們零到二歲的專班也會在明年開始會增設200班,這個是大家非常…那在彰化縣呢?因為我們彰化縣現在有些鄉鎮是欠缺零到二歲的國嬰的部分,有些鄉鎮欠缺三到六歲幼兒園的部分,那這樣子分配不均的情況下,怎麼樣子發展零到六歲呢?\n865547\t894036\t幼兒園跟0到20歲的專班我覺得各地都有需求啦各地都有需求,量還是不夠像我之前到高雄他們說這邊已經有兩班了我們上化縣也有需求啊各地應該透過地方政府趕快整合一下不是高雄有需求全台灣都有需求你怎麼做你要落實這個政見不是只有單一個方向當然是,我說全台灣都有需求趕快提出各縣市的需求那麼有沒有設置的地點要怎麼樣去做合作\n896937\t920965\t目前的確在彰化縣的各鄉鎮對於這0到6歲大家都沒有辦法真的知道政見要怎麼落實因為有些部分缺的是0到2歲有些部分缺的是3到6歲在缺的不均勻的情況下這個政見就沒有辦法落實我認為\n926412\t926432\t好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我想要請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。\n議員長,早安。我看到前天我們經濟部長說,他說是不是如果兩年以後臺電還是虧損,他就要下臺,是不是?\n之前就說過的他認為兩年之後照他的方向可以讓台電調整他的財務健全我也有一些看法啦說不定我的方法比他還快那請委員指教我們很樂意聽我想要問一下就是你們今年追加的台電1000億的預算是跟過去一樣是邊列在台電的就是為了健全台電的財務結構邊在資本還是邊在營業收入\n呃,第一個他不是在只是為了健全他的資本,不是健全他的財務,他不是健全他的財務,因為今年我們在電價調整當中,民生用電是非常的穩定的,是沒有調整的,那從這裡做一些補貼的政策,讓台電自己去\n臨時提案委員\n那今年我們還有一項就是他的這個\n明年呢?\n明年你們預計那個經濟部還要再撥補台電?\n我們照最近這一次的調整之後幾項原則,第一個是反應成本\n我跟院長說\n補債資本跟補債營業收入是不一樣的,這是台電的損益表,1到8月最新的,我昨天晚上才抓下來的,它的稅前盈餘,稅前虧損現在是400億,\n現在是400億的情況下如果我們今年度行政院追加的臺電的1000億的預算是補在營業收入的話那現在稅錢馬上就會由虧轉營變成600億\n你稅前盈餘就會有600億這600億在到就是今年度的會計年度結束以後它就會變成稅後盈餘稅後盈餘就可以打消我們資產負債表裡面現在目前台電4,219億的虧損是不是\n如果台電是用這樣的財務的計算方式來看,我們將來在提出追加預算的說明當中,他應該進一步說明將來的用途。 是不是這樣子?如果是這樣子,他可以立即的打消他4,219億的累積虧損。 所以我們說今年的追加預算,一方面是\n我們4月已經漲一次電價了明天即將第二次調整我們的工業用電\n總共的調幅是12%左右那今年4月到現在調整電價已經讓臺電增加1000億的稅前盈餘了那第二次的調漲電價會不會增加更多然後如果目前我們現在是追加1000億嘛\n如果你是補債收入的話那我們馬上就可以打消它的累計虧損再加上明天開始的調漲電價有可能我們就可以馬上的來打消台電的這個虧損如果這個情況下我想請問院長的是明年還需要撥補嗎還是我們馬上刪除\n還是等到看到了今年漲電價的這個結果﹖打消累計虧損的結果以後﹖我們再來決定明年要不要再追加一千億的預算﹖畢竟一千億不是一千塊是不是都是人民辛苦的納稅權。 院長你怎麼樣決定這個東西你是交給臺電還是最後在院會裡面由院長決定\n跟委員報告,過去兩三年因為烏鶴戰爭的關係,原物料上漲的幅度是相當大的,那這個都是在臺電的吸收範圍當中,所以我們必須要填補這些東西。 那是過去,我知道,這是過去累計虧損4,219億嘛,這是過去。 那我們期待臺電的營運能夠越區健全,就是要接近反應成本的越區健全。那明年它電價會不會調整,不是現在我說,當然是明年審議委員會,我期待,我期待。\n如果按照這樣子的方式其實你們的追加預算的今年1000億的追加預算你就應該把它編在收入馬上打消它的累計虧損未來當然啦等到下一次的電價審議的時候那就不用再調整電價這才是苦民所苦現在民眾已經非常非常苦了\n現在電價調不調整當然是電價審議委員會了但是我是期待在今年這樣調整之後我們可以穩定一段時間對電價讓它穩定這是我的期待我想任何一個政府的官員都不希望用調整各種的民生費用來增加人民的負擔\n所以我才在這裡提出建議 如果你邊在收入的話 那電價審議委員會會不會調整電價也要按照台電目前虧損以及他財務的情況 那如果我們按照這樣子財務的規劃的話是不是可以馬上的讓他打消累計虧損 而且我想請問的\n如果按照這個情況把它列在營業收入就是這一千億的撥補列在營業收入的話我想請問卓院長的你要補助哪一些產業是中小企業還是要補助民生用電\n當然是補助民生用電了,現在今年這一次的調整我們就是補助民生用電以及一些過去這段時間以來它的營業或是用電衰退的我們盡量不予調整,但是所產生出來跟成本之間的差額\n他還說過去衰退的,那是產業喔,中小企業喔,是不是,你就要撥補在中小企業的一部分而已,比方說我們特別對花東的旅宿業,我們特別要,他真的是經營上的困難,增加就算7%也是困難。\n國會主委跟教育部長請備詢\n你們故意走得很慢沒關係我的時間停了\n吳主委我知道你很關心台積電要不要在德國還有歐洲國家設廠我看到新聞可是你知不知道我們二零我們彰化的縣民也很希望台積電可以來二零中科設廠你知道科學園區也是你的管轄範圍內吧你清楚的了解吧是\n那對於這個你有什麼你昨天評論了你說說台積電要去德國還有歐洲很多國家設廠那對於我們彰化憲民的判斷你給予什麼樣子的回應我們對於台灣各處的可能發展的基地我們都會協助那彰化20的這個科學園區\n目前他的基地是比較小,而且當初在...基地不小欸,我們現在只用了一半而已,一半還不到,招商一半還不到,未來我們希望招商更多欸。我們最近...今天是國是會沒來欸,我才跟你講欸。\n郭志輝也在趕快把這個台積電相關的封測﹖因為我們二林中科是一個低度用水用電﹖他可以做的是半導體裡面的封測﹖有台積電的封測﹖也有相關其他封測的產業﹖郭志輝都在把他們拉攏到產業院去﹖你要不要把他拉攏到科學院去啊?\n如果條件許可的話,廠商也有意願,我們當然會協助,但是現在目前二零的這個水電的這個需求,因為有受到當初在環境影響評估的時候決議的限制,那個如果我們\n地方政府願意提及協助。 封測可以,那你要不要大地協助。你不要只關心歐洲嘛,你要不要關心我們台灣。 報告委員,報告委員。 前瞻封測不是像傳統封測一樣。 台積電現在需求的是前瞻封測,它也牽涉到晶圓的處理。 晶圓的處理需要用到相當大的這個水電,所以條件現在還不符合。 那如果說將來地方政府積極去規劃,能夠從產磚區開始。\n目前這個道明大學\n明道大學這個退場他是由這個衛福部要準備這個來接管那也就是說他希望在那邊 張化縣政府跟衛福部共同嘛 對不對衛福部他做那個藥草的那個草藥員 中醫藥草藥員那其他的就是體育設施以及校舍相關的部分是由張化縣政府來共同接管嘛 主要的\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n我們有非常多的離岸風電那是不是能夠把部分的離岸一小部分提供給當然就是提供給我們彰化的中小企業因為大部分的綠電已經被科學園區的拿去了嘛\n但是對於中小企業有嫁接到國際綠色供應業裡面的中小企業,他們也需要相關的探權,是不是能夠協助呢?\n這一個因為我們目前的一個辦法確實就是由衛福部來統籌啦,但是如果他這個整個空間我想我們在整個整體的一個規劃跨部會裡面看怎麼樣來協助這個讓空間能夠做到一個更\n大學退場的問題,教育部也是其中的一份子,不要再推給微服部,還有行政院的0到6歲國家養的政策,目前推動的情況是如何?\n我們零到二歲的專班也會在明年開始會增設200班,這個是大家非常…那在彰化縣呢?因為我們彰化縣現在有些鄉鎮是欠缺零到二歲的國嬰的部分,有些鄉鎮欠缺三到六歲幼兒園的部分,那這樣子分配不均的情況下,怎麼樣子發展零到六歲呢?\n幼兒園跟0到20歲的專班我覺得各地都有需求啦各地都有需求,量還是不夠像我之前到高雄他們說這邊已經有兩班了我們上化縣也有需求啊各地應該透過地方政府趕快整合一下不是高雄有需求全台灣都有需求你怎麼做你要落實這個政見不是只有單一個方向當然是,我說全台灣都有需求趕快提出各縣市的需求那麼有沒有設置的地點要怎麼樣去做合作\n目前的確在彰化縣的各鄉鎮對於這0到6歲大家都沒有辦法真的知道政見要怎麼落實因為有些部分缺的是0到2歲有些部分缺的是3到6歲在缺的不均勻的情況下這個政見就沒有辦法落實我認為\n好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.324 --> 00:05.991\n謝謝主席。我想要請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。\n\n00:18.710 --> 00:33.737\n議員長,早安。我看到前天我們經濟部長說,他說是不是如果兩年以後臺電還是虧損,他就要下臺,是不是?\n\n00:36.286 --> 01:01.102\n之前就說過的他認為兩年之後照他的方向可以讓台電調整他的財務健全我也有一些看法啦說不定我的方法比他還快那請委員指教我們很樂意聽我想要問一下就是你們今年追加的台電1000億的預算是跟過去一樣是邊列在台電的就是為了健全台電的財務結構邊在資本還是邊在營業收入\n\n01:08.171 --> 01:26.663\n呃,第一個他不是在只是為了健全他的資本,不是健全他的財務,他不是健全他的財務,因為今年我們在電價調整當中,民生用電是非常的穩定的,是沒有調整的,那從這裡做一些補貼的政策,讓台電自己去\n\n01:27.779 --> 01:27.939\n臨時提案委員\n\n01:43.317 --> 01:43.917\n那今年我們還有一項就是他的這個\n\n02:01.423 --> 02:01.823\n明年呢?\n\n02:01.823 --> 02:03.004\n明年你們預計那個經濟部還要再撥補台電?\n\n02:03.004 --> 02:04.706\n我們照最近這一次的調整之後幾項原則,第一個是反應成本\n\n02:19.957 --> 02:20.177\n我跟院長說\n\n02:41.956 --> 02:54.891\n補債資本跟補債營業收入是不一樣的,這是台電的損益表,1到8月最新的,我昨天晚上才抓下來的,它的稅前盈餘,稅前虧損現在是400億,\n\n02:58.161 --> 03:14.119\n現在是400億的情況下如果我們今年度行政院追加的臺電的1000億的預算是補在營業收入的話那現在稅錢馬上就會由虧轉營變成600億\n\n03:17.262 --> 03:38.993\n你稅前盈餘就會有600億這600億在到就是今年度的會計年度結束以後它就會變成稅後盈餘稅後盈餘就可以打消我們資產負債表裡面現在目前台電4,219億的虧損是不是\n\n03:43.720 --> 04:03.891\n如果台電是用這樣的財務的計算方式來看,我們將來在提出追加預算的說明當中,他應該進一步說明將來的用途。是不是這樣子?如果是這樣子,他可以立即的打消他4,219億的累積虧損。所以我們說今年的追加預算,一方面是\n\n04:04.775 --> 04:06.535\n我們4月已經漲一次電價了明天即將第二次調整我們的工業用電\n\n04:25.880 --> 04:48.817\n總共的調幅是12%左右那今年4月到現在調整電價已經讓臺電增加1000億的稅前盈餘了那第二次的調漲電價會不會增加更多然後如果目前我們現在是追加1000億嘛\n\n04:49.918 --> 05:13.469\n如果你是補債收入的話那我們馬上就可以打消它的累計虧損再加上明天開始的調漲電價有可能我們就可以馬上的來打消台電的這個虧損如果這個情況下我想請問院長的是明年還需要撥補嗎還是我們馬上刪除\n\n05:16.910 --> 05:44.839\n還是等到看到了今年漲電價的這個結果﹖打消累計虧損的結果以後﹖我們再來決定明年要不要再追加一千億的預算﹖畢竟一千億不是一千塊是不是都是人民辛苦的納稅權。院長你怎麼樣決定這個東西你是交給臺電還是最後在院會裡面由院長決定\n\n05:45.979 --> 06:14.137\n跟委員報告,過去兩三年因為烏鶴戰爭的關係,原物料上漲的幅度是相當大的,那這個都是在臺電的吸收範圍當中,所以我們必須要填補這些東西。那是過去,我知道,這是過去累計虧損4,219億嘛,這是過去。那我們期待臺電的營運能夠越區健全,就是要接近反應成本的越區健全。那明年它電價會不會調整,不是現在我說,當然是明年審議委員會,我期待,我期待。\n\n06:15.218 --> 06:42.634\n如果按照這樣子的方式其實你們的追加預算的今年1000億的追加預算你就應該把它編在收入馬上打消它的累計虧損未來當然啦等到下一次的電價審議的時候那就不用再調整電價這才是苦民所苦現在民眾已經非常非常苦了\n\n06:44.896 --> 07:04.537\n現在電價調不調整當然是電價審議委員會了但是我是期待在今年這樣調整之後我們可以穩定一段時間對電價讓它穩定這是我的期待我想任何一個政府的官員都不希望用調整各種的民生費用來增加人民的負擔\n\n07:06.118 --> 07:29.549\n所以我才在這裡提出建議如果你邊在收入的話那電價審議委員會會不會調整電價也要按照台電目前虧損以及他財務的情況那如果我們按照這樣子財務的規劃的話是不是可以馬上的讓他打消累計虧損而且我想請問的\n\n07:30.709 --> 07:45.928\n如果按照這個情況把它列在營業收入就是這一千億的撥補列在營業收入的話我想請問卓院長的你要補助哪一些產業是中小企業還是要補助民生用電\n\n07:47.083 --> 08:04.661\n當然是補助民生用電了,現在今年這一次的調整我們就是補助民生用電以及一些過去這段時間以來它的營業或是用電衰退的我們盡量不予調整,但是所產生出來跟成本之間的差額\n\n08:05.402 --> 08:23.078\n他還說過去衰退的,那是產業喔,中小企業喔,是不是,你就要撥補在中小企業的一部分而已,比方說我們特別對花東的旅宿業,我們特別要,他真的是經營上的困難,增加就算7%也是困難。\n\n08:23.638 --> 08:24.318\n國會主委跟教育部長請備詢\n\n08:55.916 --> 08:59.336\n你們故意走得很慢沒關係我的時間停了\n\n09:07.190 --> 09:33.027\n吳主委我知道你很關心台積電要不要在德國還有歐洲國家設廠我看到新聞可是你知不知道我們二零我們彰化的縣民也很希望台積電可以來二零中科設廠你知道科學園區也是你的管轄範圍內吧你清楚的了解吧是\n\n09:33.936 --> 09:57.627\n那對於這個你有什麼你昨天評論了你說說台積電要去德國還有歐洲很多國家設廠那對於我們彰化憲民的判斷你給予什麼樣子的回應我們對於台灣各處的可能發展的基地我們都會協助那彰化20的這個科學園區\n\n09:59.980 --> 10:15.939\n目前他的基地是比較小,而且當初在...基地不小欸,我們現在只用了一半而已,一半還不到,招商一半還不到,未來我們希望招商更多欸。我們最近...今天是國是會沒來欸,我才跟你講欸。\n\n10:17.020 --> 10:40.436\n郭志輝也在趕快把這個台積電相關的封測﹖因為我們二林中科是一個低度用水用電﹖他可以做的是半導體裡面的封測﹖有台積電的封測﹖也有相關其他封測的產業﹖郭志輝都在把他們拉攏到產業院去﹖你要不要把他拉攏到科學院去啊?\n\n10:41.817 --> 10:57.790\n如果條件許可的話,廠商也有意願,我們當然會協助,但是現在目前二零的這個水電的這個需求,因為有受到當初在環境影響評估的時候決議的限制,那個如果我們\n\n10:58.610 --> 11:23.319\n地方政府願意提及協助。封測可以,那你要不要大地協助。你不要只關心歐洲嘛,你要不要關心我們台灣。報告委員,報告委員。前瞻封測不是像傳統封測一樣。台積電現在需求的是前瞻封測,它也牽涉到晶圓的處理。晶圓的處理需要用到相當大的這個水電,所以條件現在還不符合。那如果說將來地方政府積極去規劃,能夠從產磚區開始。\n\n11:26.700 --> 11:27.280\n目前這個道明大學\n\n11:56.648 --> 12:23.253\n明道大學這個退場他是由這個衛福部要準備這個來接管那也就是說他希望在那邊張化縣政府跟衛福部共同嘛對不對衛福部他做那個藥草的那個草藥員中醫藥草藥員那其他的就是體育設施以及校舍相關的部分是由張化縣政府來共同接管嘛主要的\n\n12:24.033 --> 12:27.314\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n12:49.798 --> 13:07.154\n我們有非常多的離岸風電那是不是能夠把部分的離岸一小部分提供給當然就是提供給我們彰化的中小企業因為大部分的綠電已經被科學園區的拿去了嘛\n\n13:07.614 --> 13:19.805\n但是對於中小企業有嫁接到國際綠色供應業裡面的中小企業,他們也需要相關的探權,是不是能夠協助呢?\n\n13:23.187 --> 13:32.435\n這一個因為我們目前的一個辦法確實就是由衛福部來統籌啦,但是如果他這個整個空間我想我們在整個整體的一個規劃跨部會裡面看怎麼樣來協助這個讓空間能夠做到一個更\n\n13:43.922 --> 13:58.053\n大學退場的問題,教育部也是其中的一份子,不要再推給微服部,還有行政院的0到6歲國家養的政策,目前推動的情況是如何?\n\n13:58.925 --> 14:24.747\n我們零到二歲的專班也會在明年開始會增設200班,這個是大家非常…那在彰化縣呢?因為我們彰化縣現在有些鄉鎮是欠缺零到二歲的國嬰的部分,有些鄉鎮欠缺三到六歲幼兒園的部分,那這樣子分配不均的情況下,怎麼樣子發展零到六歲呢?\n\n14:25.547 --> 14:54.036\n幼兒園跟0到20歲的專班我覺得各地都有需求啦各地都有需求,量還是不夠像我之前到高雄他們說這邊已經有兩班了我們上化縣也有需求啊各地應該透過地方政府趕快整合一下不是高雄有需求全台灣都有需求你怎麼做你要落實這個政見不是只有單一個方向當然是,我說全台灣都有需求趕快提出各縣市的需求那麼有沒有設置的地點要怎麼樣去做合作\n\n14:56.937 --> 15:20.965\n目前的確在彰化縣的各鄉鎮對於這0到6歲大家都沒有辦法真的知道政見要怎麼落實因為有些部分缺的是0到2歲有些部分缺的是3到6歲在缺的不均勻的情況下這個政見就沒有辦法落實我認為\n\n15:26.412 --> 15:26.432\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.324,"end":5.991,"text":"謝謝主席。我想要請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":18.71,"end":33.737,"text":"議員長,早安。我看到前天我們經濟部長說,他說是不是如果兩年以後臺電還是虧損,他就要下臺,是不是?"},{"start":36.286,"end":61.102,"text":"之前就說過的他認為兩年之後照他的方向可以讓台電調整他的財務健全我也有一些看法啦說不定我的方法比他還快那請委員指教我們很樂意聽我想要問一下就是你們今年追加的台電1000億的預算是跟過去一樣是邊列在台電的就是為了健全台電的財務結構邊在資本還是邊在營業收入"},{"start":68.171,"end":86.663,"text":"呃,第一個他不是在只是為了健全他的資本,不是健全他的財務,他不是健全他的財務,因為今年我們在電價調整當中,民生用電是非常的穩定的,是沒有調整的,那從這裡做一些補貼的政策,讓台電自己去"},{"start":87.779,"end":87.939,"text":"臨時提案委員"},{"start":103.317,"end":103.917,"text":"那今年我們還有一項就是他的這個"},{"start":121.423,"end":121.823,"text":"明年呢?"},{"start":121.823,"end":123.004,"text":"明年你們預計那個經濟部還要再撥補台電?"},{"start":123.004,"end":124.706,"text":"我們照最近這一次的調整之後幾項原則,第一個是反應成本"},{"start":139.957,"end":140.177,"text":"我跟院長說"},{"start":161.956,"end":174.891,"text":"補債資本跟補債營業收入是不一樣的,這是台電的損益表,1到8月最新的,我昨天晚上才抓下來的,它的稅前盈餘,稅前虧損現在是400億,"},{"start":178.161,"end":194.119,"text":"現在是400億的情況下如果我們今年度行政院追加的臺電的1000億的預算是補在營業收入的話那現在稅錢馬上就會由虧轉營變成600億"},{"start":197.262,"end":218.993,"text":"你稅前盈餘就會有600億這600億在到就是今年度的會計年度結束以後它就會變成稅後盈餘稅後盈餘就可以打消我們資產負債表裡面現在目前台電4,219億的虧損是不是"},{"start":223.72,"end":243.891,"text":"如果台電是用這樣的財務的計算方式來看,我們將來在提出追加預算的說明當中,他應該進一步說明將來的用途。 是不是這樣子?如果是這樣子,他可以立即的打消他4,219億的累積虧損。 所以我們說今年的追加預算,一方面是"},{"start":244.775,"end":246.535,"text":"我們4月已經漲一次電價了明天即將第二次調整我們的工業用電"},{"start":265.88,"end":288.817,"text":"總共的調幅是12%左右那今年4月到現在調整電價已經讓臺電增加1000億的稅前盈餘了那第二次的調漲電價會不會增加更多然後如果目前我們現在是追加1000億嘛"},{"start":289.918,"end":313.469,"text":"如果你是補債收入的話那我們馬上就可以打消它的累計虧損再加上明天開始的調漲電價有可能我們就可以馬上的來打消台電的這個虧損如果這個情況下我想請問院長的是明年還需要撥補嗎還是我們馬上刪除"},{"start":316.91,"end":344.839,"text":"還是等到看到了今年漲電價的這個結果﹖打消累計虧損的結果以後﹖我們再來決定明年要不要再追加一千億的預算﹖畢竟一千億不是一千塊是不是都是人民辛苦的納稅權。 院長你怎麼樣決定這個東西你是交給臺電還是最後在院會裡面由院長決定"},{"start":345.979,"end":374.137,"text":"跟委員報告,過去兩三年因為烏鶴戰爭的關係,原物料上漲的幅度是相當大的,那這個都是在臺電的吸收範圍當中,所以我們必須要填補這些東西。 那是過去,我知道,這是過去累計虧損4,219億嘛,這是過去。 那我們期待臺電的營運能夠越區健全,就是要接近反應成本的越區健全。那明年它電價會不會調整,不是現在我說,當然是明年審議委員會,我期待,我期待。"},{"start":375.218,"end":402.634,"text":"如果按照這樣子的方式其實你們的追加預算的今年1000億的追加預算你就應該把它編在收入馬上打消它的累計虧損未來當然啦等到下一次的電價審議的時候那就不用再調整電價這才是苦民所苦現在民眾已經非常非常苦了"},{"start":404.896,"end":424.537,"text":"現在電價調不調整當然是電價審議委員會了但是我是期待在今年這樣調整之後我們可以穩定一段時間對電價讓它穩定這是我的期待我想任何一個政府的官員都不希望用調整各種的民生費用來增加人民的負擔"},{"start":426.118,"end":449.549,"text":"所以我才在這裡提出建議 如果你邊在收入的話 那電價審議委員會會不會調整電價也要按照台電目前虧損以及他財務的情況 那如果我們按照這樣子財務的規劃的話是不是可以馬上的讓他打消累計虧損 而且我想請問的"},{"start":450.709,"end":465.928,"text":"如果按照這個情況把它列在營業收入就是這一千億的撥補列在營業收入的話我想請問卓院長的你要補助哪一些產業是中小企業還是要補助民生用電"},{"start":467.083,"end":484.661,"text":"當然是補助民生用電了,現在今年這一次的調整我們就是補助民生用電以及一些過去這段時間以來它的營業或是用電衰退的我們盡量不予調整,但是所產生出來跟成本之間的差額"},{"start":485.402,"end":503.078,"text":"他還說過去衰退的,那是產業喔,中小企業喔,是不是,你就要撥補在中小企業的一部分而已,比方說我們特別對花東的旅宿業,我們特別要,他真的是經營上的困難,增加就算7%也是困難。"},{"start":503.638,"end":504.318,"text":"國會主委跟教育部長請備詢"},{"start":535.916,"end":539.336,"text":"你們故意走得很慢沒關係我的時間停了"},{"start":547.19,"end":573.027,"text":"吳主委我知道你很關心台積電要不要在德國還有歐洲國家設廠我看到新聞可是你知不知道我們二零我們彰化的縣民也很希望台積電可以來二零中科設廠你知道科學園區也是你的管轄範圍內吧你清楚的了解吧是"},{"start":573.936,"end":597.627,"text":"那對於這個你有什麼你昨天評論了你說說台積電要去德國還有歐洲很多國家設廠那對於我們彰化憲民的判斷你給予什麼樣子的回應我們對於台灣各處的可能發展的基地我們都會協助那彰化20的這個科學園區"},{"start":599.98,"end":615.939,"text":"目前他的基地是比較小,而且當初在...基地不小欸,我們現在只用了一半而已,一半還不到,招商一半還不到,未來我們希望招商更多欸。我們最近...今天是國是會沒來欸,我才跟你講欸。"},{"start":617.02,"end":640.436,"text":"郭志輝也在趕快把這個台積電相關的封測﹖因為我們二林中科是一個低度用水用電﹖他可以做的是半導體裡面的封測﹖有台積電的封測﹖也有相關其他封測的產業﹖郭志輝都在把他們拉攏到產業院去﹖你要不要把他拉攏到科學院去啊?"},{"start":641.817,"end":657.79,"text":"如果條件許可的話,廠商也有意願,我們當然會協助,但是現在目前二零的這個水電的這個需求,因為有受到當初在環境影響評估的時候決議的限制,那個如果我們"},{"start":658.61,"end":683.319,"text":"地方政府願意提及協助。 封測可以,那你要不要大地協助。你不要只關心歐洲嘛,你要不要關心我們台灣。 報告委員,報告委員。 前瞻封測不是像傳統封測一樣。 台積電現在需求的是前瞻封測,它也牽涉到晶圓的處理。 晶圓的處理需要用到相當大的這個水電,所以條件現在還不符合。 那如果說將來地方政府積極去規劃,能夠從產磚區開始。"},{"start":686.7,"end":687.28,"text":"目前這個道明大學"},{"start":716.648,"end":743.253,"text":"明道大學這個退場他是由這個衛福部要準備這個來接管那也就是說他希望在那邊 張化縣政府跟衛福部共同嘛 對不對衛福部他做那個藥草的那個草藥員 中醫藥草藥員那其他的就是體育設施以及校舍相關的部分是由張化縣政府來共同接管嘛 主要的"},{"start":744.033,"end":747.314,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":769.798,"end":787.154,"text":"我們有非常多的離岸風電那是不是能夠把部分的離岸一小部分提供給當然就是提供給我們彰化的中小企業因為大部分的綠電已經被科學園區的拿去了嘛"},{"start":787.614,"end":799.805,"text":"但是對於中小企業有嫁接到國際綠色供應業裡面的中小企業,他們也需要相關的探權,是不是能夠協助呢?"},{"start":803.187,"end":812.435,"text":"這一個因為我們目前的一個辦法確實就是由衛福部來統籌啦,但是如果他這個整個空間我想我們在整個整體的一個規劃跨部會裡面看怎麼樣來協助這個讓空間能夠做到一個更"},{"start":823.922,"end":838.053,"text":"大學退場的問題,教育部也是其中的一份子,不要再推給微服部,還有行政院的0到6歲國家養的政策,目前推動的情況是如何?"},{"start":838.925,"end":864.747,"text":"我們零到二歲的專班也會在明年開始會增設200班,這個是大家非常…那在彰化縣呢?因為我們彰化縣現在有些鄉鎮是欠缺零到二歲的國嬰的部分,有些鄉鎮欠缺三到六歲幼兒園的部分,那這樣子分配不均的情況下,怎麼樣子發展零到六歲呢?"},{"start":865.547,"end":894.036,"text":"幼兒園跟0到20歲的專班我覺得各地都有需求啦各地都有需求,量還是不夠像我之前到高雄他們說這邊已經有兩班了我們上化縣也有需求啊各地應該透過地方政府趕快整合一下不是高雄有需求全台灣都有需求你怎麼做你要落實這個政見不是只有單一個方向當然是,我說全台灣都有需求趕快提出各縣市的需求那麼有沒有設置的地點要怎麼樣去做合作"},{"start":896.937,"end":920.965,"text":"目前的確在彰化縣的各鄉鎮對於這0到6歲大家都沒有辦法真的知道政見要怎麼落實因為有些部分缺的是0到2歲有些部分缺的是3到6歲在缺的不均勻的情況下這個政見就沒有辦法落實我認為"},{"start":926.412,"end":926.432,"text":"好謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-4","title":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-15T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:34:18 - 11:49:47","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","id":155473,"gazette":{"lineno":751,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時34分）謝謝主席，我想要請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：卓院長早安。我看到前天我們經濟部長說如果兩年以後台電還是虧損，他就要下臺，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是他之前就說過的，他認為兩年之後，照他的方向可以讓台電調整，讓它的財務健全。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我也有一些看法，說不定我的方法比他還快。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員指教，我們很樂意聽。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想要問一下，你們今年追加台電1,000億的預算，是跟過去一樣為了健全台電的財務結構，編列在台電的資本，還是編在營業收入裡面？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個，它不只是為了健全它的資本……"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是健全資本？所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是健全它的財務。"],["謝委員衣鳯：編在營業收入？"],["卓院長榮泰：它不是健全它的財務，因為今年我們在電價調整當中民生用電是非常穩定的，是沒有調整的，從這裡做一些補貼的政策，讓台電自己去處理，未來追加預算通過的話，它是不是用來補貼一些這個部分，讓財務能夠健全，再加上以前歷年來的補貼。今年我們比較不一樣的是，我們對於大戶的用電增加的比較多，是反應成本，我們希望用這個方式，在一年後、兩年後，它能夠接近營運成本跟績效。"],["謝委員衣鳯：過去都是補在資本嘛，對不對？為了健全它的財務結構，所以過去的撥補都是補在台電的資本裡面。"],["卓院長榮泰：今年我們還有一項，就是電網韌性的加強，我們有編了五千多億……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，那個部分是資本。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是如果還需要的話，台電可以去勻支它相關的預算。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那明年呢？明年預計經濟部還要再撥補台電1,000億。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們照最近這一次的調整之後有幾項原則，第一個是反應成本；第二個就是穩定物價、照顧民生；再來就是要使用者付費。如果照現在的調整來看，民生的部分由政府、由大家再做一些補貼，而其他的接近成本的話，那我預計明年台電的營運會比現在好，我們給它一段時間，看它能不能改變體質。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我跟院長說，補在資本跟補在營業收入是不一樣的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是不一樣，對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這是台電1到8月最新的損益表，我昨天晚上才抓下來的，它的稅前虧損現在是400億，在這情況下，如果今年度行政院追加台電1,000億的預算是補在營業收入的話，現在稅前馬上就會由虧轉盈變成600億，稅前盈餘就會有600億。這600億在今年度的會計年度結束以後，它就會變成稅後盈餘，稅後盈餘就可以打消我們資產負債表裡面目前台電4,219億的虧損，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果台電是用這樣財務的計算方式來看，我們將來在提出追加預算的說明當中，它應該進一步說明將來的用途。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是這樣子？"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是治本的方式啦！"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果是這樣子，它可以立即打消4,219億的累積虧損。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們說今年的追加預算，一方面是穩定民生的電價……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們4月已經漲一次電價了！"],["卓院長榮泰：一方面是可以健全它的財務，健全財務也包括對過去虧損的部分能夠做一些回補的動作。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們4月已經漲一次電價了，明天即將第二次調整我們的工業用電，總共的調幅是百分之十二左右，今年4月到現在，調整電價已經讓台電增加1,000億的稅前盈餘了，第二次的調漲電價會不會增加更多？目前我們追加1,000億嘛！如果是補在收入的話，我們馬上就可以打消它的累計虧損，再加上明天開始的調漲電價，有可能就可以馬上來打消台電的虧損。在這個情況下，我想請問院長，明年還需要撥補嗎？還是我們馬上刪除？還是等到看到了今年漲電價的結果，打消累計虧損的結果以後，我們再來決定明年要不要再追加1,000億的預算，畢竟1,000億不是1,000塊，都是人民辛苦的納稅錢。院長，你怎麼樣決定？這個東西你是交給台電，還是最後在院會裡面由院長決定？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，過去兩、三年因為烏俄戰爭的關係，原物料上漲的幅度是相當大的，這個都是在台電的吸收範圍當中，所以我們必須要填補這些東西，……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那是過去，我知道！累計虧損4,219億，那是過去。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們期待台電的營運能夠越趨健全，就是要接近反映成本的越趨健全；明年電價會不會調整，不是現在我來說，當然是由明年的審議委員會，但我期待、我期待。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果按照這樣子的方式，其實今年1,000億的追加預算，你就應該把它編在收入，馬上打消它的累計虧損，未來等到下一次電價審議的時候，就不用再調整電價，這才是苦民所苦，現在民眾已經非常非常苦了！"],["卓院長榮泰：電價調不調整，當然是電價審議委員會決定，但我是期待在今年這樣調整之後，我們可以穩定一段時間，電價讓它穩定，這是我的期待。我想，任何一個政府的官員都不希望用調整各種民生費用來增加人民的負擔，這是你我共同的心願。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以我才在這裡提出建議，如果你編在收入的話，電價審議委員會會不會調整電價，也要按照台電目前的虧損以及它財務的情況，如果按照這樣的財務規劃，是不是可以馬上讓它打消累計虧損？而且我想請問，如果按照這個情況，把它列在營業收入，就是把這1,000億的撥補列在營業收入的話，我想請問卓院長，你要補助哪一些產業？是中小企業還是要補助民生用電？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然是補助民生用電，今年這一次的調整，我們就是補助民生用電……"],["謝委員衣鳯：怎麼補？"],["卓院長榮泰：以及一些過去這段時間以來，它的營業或是用電衰退的，我們儘量不予調整，但是所產生出來跟成本之間的差額……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你剛才說過去是衰退的，那是產業、是中小企業，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：中小企業，對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你就要撥補在中小企業的……"],["卓院長榮泰：一部分而已。"],["謝委員衣鳯：然後大部分用在民生用電，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：比方說我們特別對於花東的旅宿業，它真的是有經營上的困難，就算增加7%也是困難，現在其他的旅宿業也在跟我們陳情、要求要比照，這個部分經濟部是不是還有空間來調整，跟電價審議會會不會再調整，我們不知道，但是大戶的用電，那是調整得比較高；中小企業，一些小店家、小商店的那個部分，我們是沒有調整，我們的政策是如此。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。","接著我想要請國科會的吳主委跟教育部的鄭部長。"],["主席：請國科會主委跟教育部長備詢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：吳主委，我知道你很關心台積電要不要在德國還有很多歐洲國家設廠，我看到新聞了，可是你知不知道我們彰化的縣民也很希望台積電可以來二林中科設廠？你知道科學園區也是你的管轄範圍內吧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你清楚了解吧？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對於這個你有什麼看法？你昨天評論了，你說台積電要去德國還有歐洲很多國家設廠，因此，對於我們彰化縣民的盼望，你給予什麼樣子的回應？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對於臺灣各處可能發展的基地，我們都會協助，彰化二林的科學園區，目前它的基地比較小，而且當初在……"],["謝委員衣鳯：基地不小！我們現在只用了一半而已，招商一半還不到，未來我們希望可以招商得更多。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們最近……"],["謝委員衣鳯：今天是郭智輝沒來，我才跟你講。郭智輝也趕快把台積電相關的封測……因為我們二林中科是低度用水用電的，它可以做的是半導體裡面的封測，那有台積電的封測，也有相關其他封測廠……"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員……"],["謝委員衣鳯：郭智輝都把他們拉攏到產業園區裡，所以你要不要把它拉攏到科學園區來？"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果條件許可，廠商也有意願的話，我們當然會協助。但目前二林在水電的需求上，因為受到當初環境影響評估的決議限制……"],["謝委員衣鳯：封測可以，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果地方政府願意積極協助……"],["謝委員衣鳯：封測可以，所以你要不要大力協助？"],["吳主任委員誠文：前瞻……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你那麼關心歐洲，請問你要不要關心我們臺灣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，前瞻封測不像傳統封測一樣，台積電現在需求的是前瞻封測，這也牽涉到晶圓的處理，而晶圓的處理需要用到相當大量的水電，所以現在條件還不符合。如果將來地方政府積極規劃，能夠從產專區開始，而廠商也覺得適合的話，科學園區方面我們一定會盡力來協助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好的，我只是要聽到你會盡力協助我們彰化縣，不要只關心歐洲。","我請問鄭部長，現在有私立大學因為招生不足而面臨退場，像彰化的明道大學就是一個例子。就你所知，目前的規劃是怎樣？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前明道大學退場後，是由衛福部準備接管。也就是說希望在……"],["謝委員衣鳯：彰化縣政府跟衛福部共同，對不對？衛福部要做草藥園區……"],["鄭部長英耀：中草藥、中醫。"],["謝委員衣鳯：其他就是體育設施及校舍相關的部分，由彰化縣政府共同接管，主要的統籌是彰化縣政府。最近政府部門在推的是AI，所以我們也希望爭取AI智慧產業軟體園區來到這裡設廠。還有目前才剛公布碳費的部分，我們也希望碳權交易平臺……畢竟我們有非常多的離岸風電，是不是能夠把一小部分的離岸風電提供給我們彰化的中小企業？因為大部分綠電已經被科學園區拿去了，如果有對接到國際綠色供應鏈的中小企業，他們也需要碳權，是不是能夠協助呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前的辦法是由衛福部來統籌……"],["謝委員衣鳯：這不是衛福部的問題……"],["鄭部長英耀：這整個空間的整體規劃，我們會跨部會協調，看怎麼樣來協助，讓這個空間能夠達到更好、更友善、更有效率的使用。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這是大學退場的問題，教育部是其中的一份子，不要再推給衛福部。還有，行政院零到六歲國家養的政策，目前推動的情況是如何？"],["卓院長榮泰：零到二歲的專班明年開始會增設200班，這是大家非常……"],["謝委員衣鳯：彰化縣呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：各地……"],["謝委員衣鳯：彰化縣有些鄉鎮欠缺的是零到二歲的托嬰部分……"],["卓院長榮泰：是，零到二歲。"],["謝委員衣鳯：有些鄉鎮欠缺的是三到六歲幼兒園的部分，在分配不均的情況下，怎麼樣發展零到六歲呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：幼兒園跟零到二歲的專班，我覺得各地都有需求，量還是不夠。像我之前到高雄去，他們說現在已經有兩班了……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們彰化縣也有需求，"],["卓院長榮泰：各地應該透過地方政府趕快整合一下，第一個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是高雄有需求？"],["卓院長榮泰：有需求……"],["謝委員衣鳯：全臺灣都有需求，所以你怎麼做？你要落實這個政見……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯……"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是只有單一方向。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然是，所以我說全臺灣都有需求，要趕快提出各縣市的需求，有沒有設置的地點、要怎麼樣去合作、其他師資等等的都要處理好，我們才能夠把零到二歲專班落實到地方去。"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前彰化縣各鄉鎮對於零到六歲，大家都沒有辦法知道政見要怎麼落實，因為有些部分缺的是零到二歲，有些部分缺的是三到六歲。在缺的不均勻的情況下，這個政見就沒有辦法落實，我認為行政院應該要負責！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會跟地方政府一起加油。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝委員，謝謝卓院長。","報告院會，上午質詢到此為止。本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案，就不進行臨時提案之處理。下午2時30分繼續開會，進行教育及文化組之質詢。現在休息。","休息（11時50分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":179,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃珊珊","林楚茵","葛如鈞","林德福","鄭正鈐","林沛祥","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","范雲","謝衣鳯","莊瑞雄","黃建賓","陳秀寳","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅美玲","黃捷","張雅琳","李坤城","王美惠"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00003","1137801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137801_00004"}}}