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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 961.592, \"end\": 961.913, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"坤\", \"start\": 961.913, \"end\": 962.235, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 962.235, \"end\": 962.436, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 962.436, \"end\": 962.617, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 962.617, \"end\": 962.638, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:21,761 --> 00:00:27,844\n謝謝院長我們請左院長還有我們的政部長麻煩請左院長教育部長開始備選\n\n2\n00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:57,645\n李委員好院長好、部長好辛苦了今天我應該是最後一位質詢有一些關於教育的問題然後還要爭取教育的預算來請教我們的院長跟部長那我先請教一下院長那你認為說在目前的校園中有哪些問題你認為比較嚴重的如果委員所問的應該是校園\n\n3\n00:01:05,385 --> 00:01:29,816\n這個毒品的年紀往下降年輕化的問題我們現在會列為很重要的一個議題除了毒品之外還有嗎?另外可能是一些霸凌事件是這個霸凌的事件然後你剛才院長有提到就是說這一個藥物濫用毒品的問題然後我把這個吸煙人口增加我也把它納進去那當然還有很多問題那我今天就這三個問題來就教院長還有部長\n\n4\n00:01:33,297 --> 00:02:01,610\n那根據這個林傳媒他們在9月份做了一個民調在國小階段關於校園安全還有校園霸凌的問題這個是大家所關心的排名是第二名高達六成左右的民眾來關心但是到了這個國高中階段的話呢校園安全還有校園霸凌排位在第一名表示說到了這個國高中階段大家對於校園霸凌是非常的重視這是一般民眾的一些問卷看法\n\n5\n00:02:02,550 --> 00:02:31,720\n還有臺灣兒童權力公約聯盟在10月初有做了一個調查,它是針對將近3800位小六的學童所做了一個霸凌的調查。其中有36.4%的兒童有被霸凌的經驗,46.1%有霸凌的經驗,有兩成的小六的兒童是有被霸凌,但是也有霸凌其他人,就是受害者但同時也是加害者。\n\n6\n00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:49,958\n這次特別針對小六的兒童的一個調查好那我就是要來問這個院長跟部長這個在我們教育部有一個校園霸凌通報還有這個確認的這個案件的這個統計表那我來看的話呢通報數是越來越多\n\n7\n00:02:51,019 --> 00:03:11,316\n但是確認率是越來越低,從30%降到11.4%,我們當然不希望說有冤案,但是成案率低,也會造成通報的意願低,形成霸凌的黑數。這些都會變成後來霸凌的悲劇。我隨便舉幾個例子,就最近的例子。\n\n8\n00:03:12,168 --> 00:03:41,001\n就是有通報但確認率很低的在今年的1月份有台北市某國小是一個學生涉及長期的霸凌但是他後來被學校列為當選模範生而且還上台接受表揚然後議員就質疑說校方的通報失靈然後在8月份在新北市某個國小的學生也是用巴掌霸凌同學但是這個孩子已經要生\n\n9\n00:03:41,923 --> 00:03:56,676\n我中了,家長還沒有收到調查的結果。兩張沙灑我舉這兩個例子,所以我就要請教一下,院長,為什麼通報數會越來越高,但是確認率是越來越低,這個問題是出在哪裡呢?\n\n10\n00:03:57,882 --> 00:04:13,362\n謝謝委員提醒這個必須要很真實的去檢討跟反應我一向主張政府所有的資訊應該正確而公開讓大家能夠來瞭解這個事實提供更多的意見我們才能做有效的管控這兩個案件都發生在不久的之前\n\n11\n00:04:14,784 --> 00:04:29,259\n地方政府的教育單位應該要有一個很完整的說明,也應該用這個來告訴所有的人。其中我舉兩個案子,那我只是要來說明就是說那為什麼我們這一個通報率這麼高,確認率會這麼低,到底是問題是出在哪裡?我不是講個案,我是講這個整體的一個現象。\n\n12\n00:04:33,610 --> 00:05:00,832\n跟委員報告,確實我們就是擔心說校園有一些這個霸凌的行為被遮掩,也就是形成黑素。所以我們鼓勵這一個老師、這一個教育人員,只要有學生之間彼此的一些可能的一些言語或者肢體或者網路或者可能疑似的,全部都一定要通報。沒有通報的話,他事實上是會受到這一個懲處的。\n\n13\n00:05:01,833 --> 00:05:16,657\n那也因為這樣大概就是說只要有這一個儀式他全部大大小小全部可能同學之間的一些玩戲上所以他這個通報數就增加了我們本來就是希望不要\n\n14\n00:05:17,197 --> 00:05:18,358\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n15\n00:05:43,229 --> 00:05:46,673\n我只是提醒院長跟部長就是說你的2021的確認率到17、2022年到11這個數字降得太快\n\n16\n00:06:05,113 --> 00:06:07,816\n學生輔導法修正法案也送到立法院來,也正在審查。\n\n17\n00:06:28,516 --> 00:06:29,197\n在校園裡面有出現老師慌的問題。\n\n18\n00:06:47,448 --> 00:07:11,937\n有這個背景的年輕人不願意來學校當老師或是說當了老師不願意去處理這些問題像很多的學校裡面現在當導師的都是代理老師當導師我們是希望說他是有經驗的人但是很多都是剛到學校的代理老師他就當導師那你說你要賦予他更多的責任來做這個輔導學生心理輔導等等之類的\n\n19\n00:07:13,217 --> 00:07:16,420\n中文報告確實這一點我們也在這個跟地方在希望能夠透過一個大家的一個溝通協調能夠讓這一個減少這個代理老師為什麼因為\n\n20\n00:07:36,198 --> 00:07:57,197\n地方考慮到許多的因素,包括這個少子女化,這個學生人口,他們預估了這個未來,所以在許多的教師延額,他並沒有真正的把它釋放出來,每年去提供一定名額的。現在很多學校都是代理老師。就是說學校大概就保留了15%,甚至有一些縣市甚至\n\n21\n00:07:58,058 --> 00:07:58,078\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n\n22\n00:08:14,432 --> 00:08:25,176\n這次按照這個國建署的這個資料,110年的這個資料,國中生吸菸是2.2%,然後到了高中值的話,上升到7.2%,這是止菸。電子菸的這個使用率提高了,在107年的時候國中生是1.9%,到110年上升到3.9%。\n\n23\n00:08:32,810 --> 00:08:53,537\n然後高中生呢?高中職生呢?從3.4%上升到8.8%這是電子菸所以你看紫菸好像沒什麼增加但是電子菸增加了很多電子菸增加了很多有一個問題就是說它很容易取得電子菸很容易取得那你知道院長這個電子菸我們是不能在網路上販賣的\n\n24\n00:08:55,197 --> 00:09:22,208\n但是呢現在你在網路上要買電子煙相當相當的容易按照這個國建署這個在今年1月份發布的資料是去年底他總共開出了3343萬的罰單那這應該都是這個平台上面的賣家或是個人去罰他們的然後呢集中在三個平台這個Facebook、IG、露天拍賣等等我認為院長要注意一下\n\n25\n00:09:23,428 --> 00:09:46,194\n這個開出了這個三千多萬的罰單裡面﹖應該都是罰個人﹖罰賣家﹖有沒有罰平台﹖有沒有﹖我們過去對平台是沒有辦法﹖因為他沒有落地就沒有辦法納管﹖未來我們在新的打詐司法當中﹖我們要求在台灣的平台﹖你要落地﹖要管理﹖你做廣告就必須真實﹖是可以罰﹖嘉義縣他有罰﹖\n\n26\n00:09:47,034 --> 00:10:02,683\n加一線他就罰那個平台,罰了40萬,所以平台不是不能罰,我們打在就是說要求他們落地嘛,要做處理,我是希望說這個電子營尤其像剛我提到的這三個主要的平台,大部分都集中在這三個平台。\n\n27\n00:10:03,283 --> 00:10:19,617\n你要去注意,就是說不能賣電子煙,啊就賣電子煙,那可是罰不到他們啊。我認為就是說,不管是當然跟教育有關係,但是跟速發部有關係。我認為在電子煙人會取得這方面,我認為要人家控管。\n\n28\n00:10:20,317 --> 00:10:22,998\n按照教育部今年6月有來立法院做一個報告\n\n29\n00:10:45,742 --> 00:10:55,667\n這個藥物濫用問題在111年這個國小、國中、高中、大專合計起來是400位,到了112年呢483位,有增加。那今年呢這個1到4月當時候你們報告是151位,那但是呢到了這個8月應該是將近300位了。\n\n30\n00:11:06,112 --> 00:11:19,923\n那這個呢,藥物濫用的情況呢,我認為是有增加的這個情況。那我去看了一下,國建署他們的一個報告,當然還是以這個三級的毒品為主。那我現在就要提到了,\n\n31\n00:11:21,314 --> 00:11:49,006\n這個在年輕人流行的這個電子煙當中呢有一種叫做喪屍煙油那依托彌子那當然呢這個我們行政院在今年的8月呢已經公告正式公告為三級的毒品了那這個之前也造成很多悲劇啦光是在我們新北市三重7月份有一位員警被這個西池這個喪屍煙大人撞死了一位黃姓員警被撞死了\n\n32\n00:11:49,568 --> 00:12:16,083\n然後呢9月底也是一樣是在土城的一位所長劉所長在執行的時候他也是被撞死了然後那個撞他的人身上也有說出這個喪屍煙油那他們是這個我們把這個電子煙跟這個喪屍煙油合在一起來講就是說現在很多的這個電子煙的成分裡面可能會有像這個喪屍煙油或是其他的毒品\n\n33\n00:12:16,886 --> 00:12:17,246\n這兩個都是違禁的物品\n\n34\n00:12:46,092 --> 00:13:11,779\n對,任何的違紀物品,我們都希望透過能夠大力的取締去發掘它的源頭最重要。剛剛委員所說的,我們如果網路上很容易買到,那就是我們很大的一個破口。很容易買到了,你隨便去Google電子菸,網路上一堆。那我想警政單位也都知道,那現在我們進一步可以加強,以後不僅是嘉義縣可以去處罰平台,全國依照新的法律,如果我們落地之後,納管之後,\n\n35\n00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:39,446\n我們希望能夠加強取締跟管制我們打造專訪通過之後就要求剛才講的那些數位平台都要落地我們好像是給他到這一個年底的時間我是希望能夠加速因為我們還有19個執法目前正在完成當中完成之後這部大的機器才能夠順暢的來驅動好那這個在最後再問這一個院長這個剛剛好像有委員問過了就可能沒時間看但是有聽過這一個黑白大廚吧\n\n36\n00:13:41,386 --> 00:13:51,850\n黑白大廚裡面有一位晉級的李美英他是韓國國小營養午餐的廚師很不容易做營養午餐的廚師能夠到黑白大廚裡面進入到前15強\n\n37\n00:14:01,915 --> 00:14:20,628\n這在台灣不可能發生,因為在台灣的營養午餐不好吃,你不可能做這個餐廚的廚師能夠晉級到這個黑白大廚裡面去,甚至能夠進入到前面。那我就比較我們跟韓國好了,韓國呢,他們全部都是由政府來出錢。\n\n38\n00:14:21,929 --> 00:14:41,063\n社廚房公辦公營當然預算也很高每個孩子每餐的預算高達200塊而且學校廚工也比例很高但是在臺灣有公辦公營、公辦民營、民辦民營不一樣的種類很多最重要的是我們的餐費40到70\n\n39\n00:14:44,630 --> 00:15:03,055\n跟韓國比,韓國是由政府來出錢的,我們平均是55塊,所以我們在人事成本跟食材跟韓國就沒辦法比。我舉這個例子是希望說,教育部其實我們都很關心是不是這個營養午餐法能夠提出來。\n\n40\n00:15:06,252 --> 00:15:26,245\n委員部長,我們都應該不定時不預告的去吃吃營養午餐,我們才能親身感受到委員所說的,如何讓他更好。你有空我就帶你一起來吃學校的這個營養午餐。很多委員有提出了,類似這個學校共餐法,還要營養午餐,那我們也希望說,\n\n41\n00:15:27,365 --> 00:15:36,148\n補人、補專業、永續發展,讓孩子在學校能夠吃得安全、然後吃得開心、吃得健康、吃菜地的食材好不好?\n\n42\n00:16:01,592 --> 00:16:02,638\n謝謝李坤城委員的質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n21761\t27844\t謝謝院長我們請左院長還有我們的政部長麻煩請左院長教育部長開始備選\n36360\t57645\t李委員好院長好、部長好辛苦了今天我應該是最後一位質詢有一些關於教育的問題然後還要爭取教育的預算來請教我們的院長跟部長那我先請教一下院長那你認為說在目前的校園中有哪些問題你認為比較嚴重的如果委員所問的應該是校園\n65385\t89816\t這個毒品的年紀往下降年輕化的問題我們現在會列為很重要的一個議題除了毒品之外還有嗎?另外可能是一些霸凌事件是這個霸凌的事件然後你剛才院長有提到就是說這一個藥物濫用毒品的問題然後我把這個吸煙人口增加我也把它納進去那當然還有很多問題那我今天就這三個問題來就教院長還有部長\n93297\t121610\t那根據這個林傳媒他們在9月份做了一個民調在國小階段關於校園安全還有校園霸凌的問題這個是大家所關心的排名是第二名高達六成左右的民眾來關心但是到了這個國高中階段的話呢校園安全還有校園霸凌排位在第一名表示說到了這個國高中階段大家對於校園霸凌是非常的重視這是一般民眾的一些問卷看法\n122550\t151720\t還有臺灣兒童權力公約聯盟在10月初有做了一個調查,它是針對將近3800位小六的學童所做了一個霸凌的調查。其中有36.4%的兒童有被霸凌的經驗,46.1%有霸凌的經驗,有兩成的小六的兒童是有被霸凌,但是也有霸凌其他人,就是受害者但同時也是加害者。\n152240\t169958\t這次特別針對小六的兒童的一個調查好那我就是要來問這個院長跟部長這個在我們教育部有一個校園霸凌通報還有這個確認的這個案件的這個統計表那我來看的話呢通報數是越來越多\n171019\t191316\t但是確認率是越來越低,從30%降到11.4%,我們當然不希望說有冤案,但是成案率低,也會造成通報的意願低,形成霸凌的黑數。這些都會變成後來霸凌的悲劇。我隨便舉幾個例子,就最近的例子。\n192168\t221001\t就是有通報但確認率很低的在今年的1月份有台北市某國小是一個學生涉及長期的霸凌但是他後來被學校列為當選模範生而且還上台接受表揚然後議員就質疑說校方的通報失靈然後在8月份在新北市某個國小的學生也是用巴掌霸凌同學但是這個孩子已經要生\n221923\t236676\t我中了,家長還沒有收到調查的結果。 兩張沙灑我舉這兩個例子,所以我就要請教一下, 院長,為什麼通報數會越來越高,但是確認率是越來越低,這個問題是出在哪裡呢?\n237882\t253362\t謝謝委員提醒 這個必須要很真實的去檢討跟反應 我一向主張政府所有的資訊應該正確而公開 讓大家能夠來瞭解這個事實提供更多的意見 我們才能做有效的管控 這兩個案件都發生在不久的之前\n254784\t269259\t地方政府的教育單位應該要有一個很完整的說明,也應該用這個來告訴所有的人。 其中我舉兩個案子,那我只是要來說明就是說那為什麼我們這一個通報率這麼高,確認率會這麼低,到底是問題是出在哪裡?我不是講個案,我是講這個整體的一個現象。\n273610\t300832\t跟委員報告,確實我們就是擔心說校園有一些這個霸凌的行為被遮掩,也就是形成黑素。所以我們鼓勵這一個老師、這一個教育人員,只要有學生之間彼此的一些可能的一些言語或者肢體或者網路或者可能疑似的,全部都一定要通報。沒有通報的話,他事實上是會受到這一個懲處的。\n301833\t316657\t那也因為這樣大概就是說只要有這一個儀式他全部大大小小全部可能同學之間的一些玩戲上所以他這個通報數就增加了我們本來就是希望不要\n317197\t318358\t三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n343229\t346673\t我只是提醒院長跟部長就是說你的2021的確認率到17、2022年到11這個數字降得太快\n365113\t367816\t學生輔導法修正法案也送到立法院來,也正在審查。\n388516\t389197\t在校園裡面有出現老師慌的問題。\n407448\t431937\t有這個背景的年輕人不願意來學校當老師或是說當了老師不願意去處理這些問題像很多的學校裡面現在當導師的都是代理老師當導師我們是希望說他是有經驗的人但是很多都是剛到學校的代理老師他就當導師那你說你要賦予他更多的責任來做這個輔導學生心理輔導等等之類的\n433217\t436420\t中文報告確實這一點我們也在這個跟地方在希望能夠透過一個大家的一個溝通協調能夠讓這一個減少這個代理老師為什麼因為\n456198\t477197\t地方考慮到許多的因素,包括這個少子女化,這個學生人口,他們預估了這個未來,所以在許多的教師延額,他並沒有真正的把它釋放出來,每年去提供一定名額的。 現在很多學校都是代理老師。 就是說學校大概就保留了15%,甚至有一些縣市甚至\n478058\t478078\t二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n494432\t505176\t這次按照這個國建署的這個資料,110年的這個資料,國中生吸菸是2.2%,然後到了高中值的話,上升到7.2%,這是止菸。 電子菸的這個使用率提高了,在107年的時候國中生是1.9%,到110年上升到3.9%。\n512810\t533537\t然後高中生呢?高中職生呢?從3.4%上升到8.8%這是電子菸所以你看紫菸好像沒什麼增加但是電子菸增加了很多電子菸增加了很多有一個問題就是說它很容易取得電子菸很容易取得那你知道院長這個電子菸我們是不能在網路上販賣的\n535197\t562208\t但是呢現在你在網路上要買電子煙相當相當的容易按照這個國建署這個在今年1月份發布的資料是去年底他總共開出了3343萬的罰單那這應該都是這個平台上面的賣家或是個人去罰他們的然後呢集中在三個平台這個Facebook、IG、露天拍賣等等我認為院長要注意一下\n563428\t586194\t這個開出了這個三千多萬的罰單裡面﹖應該都是罰個人﹖罰賣家﹖有沒有罰平台﹖有沒有﹖我們過去對平台是沒有辦法﹖因為他沒有落地就沒有辦法納管﹖未來我們在新的打詐司法當中﹖我們要求在台灣的平台﹖你要落地﹖要管理﹖你做廣告就必須真實﹖是可以罰﹖嘉義縣他有罰﹖\n587034\t602683\t加一線他就罰那個平台,罰了40萬,所以平台不是不能罰,我們打在就是說要求他們落地嘛,要做處理,我是希望說這個電子營尤其像剛我提到的這三個主要的平台,大部分都集中在這三個平台。\n603283\t619617\t你要去注意,就是說不能賣電子煙,啊就賣電子煙,那可是罰不到他們啊。我認為就是說,不管是當然跟教育有關係,但是跟速發部有關係。我認為在電子煙人會取得這方面,我認為要人家控管。\n620317\t622998\t按照教育部今年6月有來立法院做一個報告\n645742\t655667\t這個藥物濫用問題在111年這個國小、國中、高中、大專合計起來是400位,到了112年呢483位,有增加。那今年呢這個1到4月當時候你們報告是151位,那但是呢到了這個8月應該是將近300位了。\n666112\t679923\t那這個呢,藥物濫用的情況呢,我認為是有增加的這個情況。那我去看了一下,國建署他們的一個報告,當然還是以這個三級的毒品為主。那我現在就要提到了,\n681314\t709006\t這個在年輕人流行的這個電子煙當中呢有一種叫做喪屍煙油那依托彌子那當然呢這個我們行政院在今年的8月呢已經公告正式公告為三級的毒品了那這個之前也造成很多悲劇啦光是在我們新北市三重7月份有一位員警被這個西池這個喪屍煙大人撞死了一位黃姓員警被撞死了\n709568\t736083\t然後呢9月底也是一樣是在土城的一位所長劉所長在執行的時候他也是被撞死了然後那個撞他的人身上也有說出這個喪屍煙油那他們是這個我們把這個電子煙跟這個喪屍煙油合在一起來講就是說現在很多的這個電子煙的成分裡面可能會有像這個喪屍煙油或是其他的毒品\n736886\t737246\t這兩個都是違禁的物品\n766092\t791779\t對,任何的違紀物品,我們都希望透過能夠大力的取締去發掘它的源頭最重要。 剛剛委員所說的,我們如果網路上很容易買到,那就是我們很大的一個破口。很容易買到了,你隨便去Google電子菸,網路上一堆。那我想警政單位也都知道,那現在我們進一步可以加強,以後不僅是嘉義縣可以去處罰平台,全國依照新的法律,如果我們落地之後,納管之後,\n792159\t819446\t我們希望能夠加強取締跟管制我們打造專訪通過之後就要求剛才講的那些數位平台都要落地我們好像是給他到這一個年底的時間我是希望能夠加速因為我們還有19個執法目前正在完成當中完成之後這部大的機器才能夠順暢的來驅動好那這個在最後再問這一個院長這個剛剛好像有委員問過了就可能沒時間看但是有聽過這一個黑白大廚吧\n821386\t831850\t黑白大廚裡面有一位晉級的李美英他是韓國國小營養午餐的廚師很不容易做營養午餐的廚師能夠到黑白大廚裡面進入到前15強\n841915\t860628\t這在台灣不可能發生,因為在台灣的營養午餐不好吃,你不可能做這個餐廚的廚師能夠晉級到這個黑白大廚裡面去,甚至能夠進入到前面。 那我就比較我們跟韓國好了,韓國呢,他們全部都是由政府來出錢。\n861929\t881063\t社廚房公辦公營當然預算也很高每個孩子每餐的預算高達200塊而且學校廚工也比例很高但是在臺灣有公辦公營、公辦民營、民辦民營不一樣的種類很多最重要的是我們的餐費40到70\n884630\t903055\t跟韓國比,韓國是由政府來出錢的,我們平均是55塊,所以我們在人事成本跟食材跟韓國就沒辦法比。我舉這個例子是希望說,教育部其實我們都很關心是不是這個營養午餐法能夠提出來。\n906252\t926245\t委員部長,我們都應該不定時不預告的去吃吃營養午餐,我們才能親身感受到委員所說的,如何讓他更好。你有空我就帶你一起來吃學校的這個營養午餐。很多委員有提出了,類似這個學校共餐法,還要營養午餐,那我們也希望說,\n927365\t936148\t補人、補專業、永續發展,讓孩子在學校能夠吃得安全、然後吃得開心、吃得健康、吃菜地的食材好不好?\n961592\t962638\t謝謝李坤城委員的質詢\n","txt":"謝謝院長我們請左院長還有我們的政部長麻煩請左院長教育部長開始備選\n李委員好院長好、部長好辛苦了今天我應該是最後一位質詢有一些關於教育的問題然後還要爭取教育的預算來請教我們的院長跟部長那我先請教一下院長那你認為說在目前的校園中有哪些問題你認為比較嚴重的如果委員所問的應該是校園\n這個毒品的年紀往下降年輕化的問題我們現在會列為很重要的一個議題除了毒品之外還有嗎?另外可能是一些霸凌事件是這個霸凌的事件然後你剛才院長有提到就是說這一個藥物濫用毒品的問題然後我把這個吸煙人口增加我也把它納進去那當然還有很多問題那我今天就這三個問題來就教院長還有部長\n那根據這個林傳媒他們在9月份做了一個民調在國小階段關於校園安全還有校園霸凌的問題這個是大家所關心的排名是第二名高達六成左右的民眾來關心但是到了這個國高中階段的話呢校園安全還有校園霸凌排位在第一名表示說到了這個國高中階段大家對於校園霸凌是非常的重視這是一般民眾的一些問卷看法\n還有臺灣兒童權力公約聯盟在10月初有做了一個調查,它是針對將近3800位小六的學童所做了一個霸凌的調查。其中有36.4%的兒童有被霸凌的經驗,46.1%有霸凌的經驗,有兩成的小六的兒童是有被霸凌,但是也有霸凌其他人,就是受害者但同時也是加害者。\n這次特別針對小六的兒童的一個調查好那我就是要來問這個院長跟部長這個在我們教育部有一個校園霸凌通報還有這個確認的這個案件的這個統計表那我來看的話呢通報數是越來越多\n但是確認率是越來越低,從30%降到11.4%,我們當然不希望說有冤案,但是成案率低,也會造成通報的意願低,形成霸凌的黑數。這些都會變成後來霸凌的悲劇。我隨便舉幾個例子,就最近的例子。\n就是有通報但確認率很低的在今年的1月份有台北市某國小是一個學生涉及長期的霸凌但是他後來被學校列為當選模範生而且還上台接受表揚然後議員就質疑說校方的通報失靈然後在8月份在新北市某個國小的學生也是用巴掌霸凌同學但是這個孩子已經要生\n我中了,家長還沒有收到調查的結果。 兩張沙灑我舉這兩個例子,所以我就要請教一下, 院長,為什麼通報數會越來越高,但是確認率是越來越低,這個問題是出在哪裡呢?\n謝謝委員提醒 這個必須要很真實的去檢討跟反應 我一向主張政府所有的資訊應該正確而公開 讓大家能夠來瞭解這個事實提供更多的意見 我們才能做有效的管控 這兩個案件都發生在不久的之前\n地方政府的教育單位應該要有一個很完整的說明,也應該用這個來告訴所有的人。 其中我舉兩個案子,那我只是要來說明就是說那為什麼我們這一個通報率這麼高,確認率會這麼低,到底是問題是出在哪裡?我不是講個案,我是講這個整體的一個現象。\n跟委員報告,確實我們就是擔心說校園有一些這個霸凌的行為被遮掩,也就是形成黑素。所以我們鼓勵這一個老師、這一個教育人員,只要有學生之間彼此的一些可能的一些言語或者肢體或者網路或者可能疑似的,全部都一定要通報。沒有通報的話,他事實上是會受到這一個懲處的。\n那也因為這樣大概就是說只要有這一個儀式他全部大大小小全部可能同學之間的一些玩戲上所以他這個通報數就增加了我們本來就是希望不要\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n我只是提醒院長跟部長就是說你的2021的確認率到17、2022年到11這個數字降得太快\n學生輔導法修正法案也送到立法院來,也正在審查。\n在校園裡面有出現老師慌的問題。\n有這個背景的年輕人不願意來學校當老師或是說當了老師不願意去處理這些問題像很多的學校裡面現在當導師的都是代理老師當導師我們是希望說他是有經驗的人但是很多都是剛到學校的代理老師他就當導師那你說你要賦予他更多的責任來做這個輔導學生心理輔導等等之類的\n中文報告確實這一點我們也在這個跟地方在希望能夠透過一個大家的一個溝通協調能夠讓這一個減少這個代理老師為什麼因為\n地方考慮到許多的因素,包括這個少子女化,這個學生人口,他們預估了這個未來,所以在許多的教師延額,他並沒有真正的把它釋放出來,每年去提供一定名額的。 現在很多學校都是代理老師。 就是說學校大概就保留了15%,甚至有一些縣市甚至\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n這次按照這個國建署的這個資料,110年的這個資料,國中生吸菸是2.2%,然後到了高中值的話,上升到7.2%,這是止菸。 電子菸的這個使用率提高了,在107年的時候國中生是1.9%,到110年上升到3.9%。\n然後高中生呢?高中職生呢?從3.4%上升到8.8%這是電子菸所以你看紫菸好像沒什麼增加但是電子菸增加了很多電子菸增加了很多有一個問題就是說它很容易取得電子菸很容易取得那你知道院長這個電子菸我們是不能在網路上販賣的\n但是呢現在你在網路上要買電子煙相當相當的容易按照這個國建署這個在今年1月份發布的資料是去年底他總共開出了3343萬的罰單那這應該都是這個平台上面的賣家或是個人去罰他們的然後呢集中在三個平台這個Facebook、IG、露天拍賣等等我認為院長要注意一下\n這個開出了這個三千多萬的罰單裡面﹖應該都是罰個人﹖罰賣家﹖有沒有罰平台﹖有沒有﹖我們過去對平台是沒有辦法﹖因為他沒有落地就沒有辦法納管﹖未來我們在新的打詐司法當中﹖我們要求在台灣的平台﹖你要落地﹖要管理﹖你做廣告就必須真實﹖是可以罰﹖嘉義縣他有罰﹖\n加一線他就罰那個平台,罰了40萬,所以平台不是不能罰,我們打在就是說要求他們落地嘛,要做處理,我是希望說這個電子營尤其像剛我提到的這三個主要的平台,大部分都集中在這三個平台。\n你要去注意,就是說不能賣電子煙,啊就賣電子煙,那可是罰不到他們啊。我認為就是說,不管是當然跟教育有關係,但是跟速發部有關係。我認為在電子煙人會取得這方面,我認為要人家控管。\n按照教育部今年6月有來立法院做一個報告\n這個藥物濫用問題在111年這個國小、國中、高中、大專合計起來是400位,到了112年呢483位,有增加。那今年呢這個1到4月當時候你們報告是151位,那但是呢到了這個8月應該是將近300位了。\n那這個呢,藥物濫用的情況呢,我認為是有增加的這個情況。那我去看了一下,國建署他們的一個報告,當然還是以這個三級的毒品為主。那我現在就要提到了,\n這個在年輕人流行的這個電子煙當中呢有一種叫做喪屍煙油那依托彌子那當然呢這個我們行政院在今年的8月呢已經公告正式公告為三級的毒品了那這個之前也造成很多悲劇啦光是在我們新北市三重7月份有一位員警被這個西池這個喪屍煙大人撞死了一位黃姓員警被撞死了\n然後呢9月底也是一樣是在土城的一位所長劉所長在執行的時候他也是被撞死了然後那個撞他的人身上也有說出這個喪屍煙油那他們是這個我們把這個電子煙跟這個喪屍煙油合在一起來講就是說現在很多的這個電子煙的成分裡面可能會有像這個喪屍煙油或是其他的毒品\n這兩個都是違禁的物品\n對,任何的違紀物品,我們都希望透過能夠大力的取締去發掘它的源頭最重要。 剛剛委員所說的,我們如果網路上很容易買到,那就是我們很大的一個破口。很容易買到了,你隨便去Google電子菸,網路上一堆。那我想警政單位也都知道,那現在我們進一步可以加強,以後不僅是嘉義縣可以去處罰平台,全國依照新的法律,如果我們落地之後,納管之後,\n我們希望能夠加強取締跟管制我們打造專訪通過之後就要求剛才講的那些數位平台都要落地我們好像是給他到這一個年底的時間我是希望能夠加速因為我們還有19個執法目前正在完成當中完成之後這部大的機器才能夠順暢的來驅動好那這個在最後再問這一個院長這個剛剛好像有委員問過了就可能沒時間看但是有聽過這一個黑白大廚吧\n黑白大廚裡面有一位晉級的李美英他是韓國國小營養午餐的廚師很不容易做營養午餐的廚師能夠到黑白大廚裡面進入到前15強\n這在台灣不可能發生,因為在台灣的營養午餐不好吃,你不可能做這個餐廚的廚師能夠晉級到這個黑白大廚裡面去,甚至能夠進入到前面。 那我就比較我們跟韓國好了,韓國呢,他們全部都是由政府來出錢。\n社廚房公辦公營當然預算也很高每個孩子每餐的預算高達200塊而且學校廚工也比例很高但是在臺灣有公辦公營、公辦民營、民辦民營不一樣的種類很多最重要的是我們的餐費40到70\n跟韓國比,韓國是由政府來出錢的,我們平均是55塊,所以我們在人事成本跟食材跟韓國就沒辦法比。我舉這個例子是希望說,教育部其實我們都很關心是不是這個營養午餐法能夠提出來。\n委員部長,我們都應該不定時不預告的去吃吃營養午餐,我們才能親身感受到委員所說的,如何讓他更好。你有空我就帶你一起來吃學校的這個營養午餐。很多委員有提出了,類似這個學校共餐法,還要營養午餐,那我們也希望說,\n補人、補專業、永續發展,讓孩子在學校能夠吃得安全、然後吃得開心、吃得健康、吃菜地的食材好不好?\n謝謝李坤城委員的質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:21.761 --> 00:27.844\n謝謝院長我們請左院長還有我們的政部長麻煩請左院長教育部長開始備選\n\n00:36.360 --> 00:57.645\n李委員好院長好、部長好辛苦了今天我應該是最後一位質詢有一些關於教育的問題然後還要爭取教育的預算來請教我們的院長跟部長那我先請教一下院長那你認為說在目前的校園中有哪些問題你認為比較嚴重的如果委員所問的應該是校園\n\n01:05.385 --> 01:29.816\n這個毒品的年紀往下降年輕化的問題我們現在會列為很重要的一個議題除了毒品之外還有嗎?另外可能是一些霸凌事件是這個霸凌的事件然後你剛才院長有提到就是說這一個藥物濫用毒品的問題然後我把這個吸煙人口增加我也把它納進去那當然還有很多問題那我今天就這三個問題來就教院長還有部長\n\n01:33.297 --> 02:01.610\n那根據這個林傳媒他們在9月份做了一個民調在國小階段關於校園安全還有校園霸凌的問題這個是大家所關心的排名是第二名高達六成左右的民眾來關心但是到了這個國高中階段的話呢校園安全還有校園霸凌排位在第一名表示說到了這個國高中階段大家對於校園霸凌是非常的重視這是一般民眾的一些問卷看法\n\n02:02.550 --> 02:31.720\n還有臺灣兒童權力公約聯盟在10月初有做了一個調查,它是針對將近3800位小六的學童所做了一個霸凌的調查。其中有36.4%的兒童有被霸凌的經驗,46.1%有霸凌的經驗,有兩成的小六的兒童是有被霸凌,但是也有霸凌其他人,就是受害者但同時也是加害者。\n\n02:32.240 --> 02:49.958\n這次特別針對小六的兒童的一個調查好那我就是要來問這個院長跟部長這個在我們教育部有一個校園霸凌通報還有這個確認的這個案件的這個統計表那我來看的話呢通報數是越來越多\n\n02:51.019 --> 03:11.316\n但是確認率是越來越低,從30%降到11.4%,我們當然不希望說有冤案,但是成案率低,也會造成通報的意願低,形成霸凌的黑數。這些都會變成後來霸凌的悲劇。我隨便舉幾個例子,就最近的例子。\n\n03:12.168 --> 03:41.001\n就是有通報但確認率很低的在今年的1月份有台北市某國小是一個學生涉及長期的霸凌但是他後來被學校列為當選模範生而且還上台接受表揚然後議員就質疑說校方的通報失靈然後在8月份在新北市某個國小的學生也是用巴掌霸凌同學但是這個孩子已經要生\n\n03:41.923 --> 03:56.676\n我中了,家長還沒有收到調查的結果。兩張沙灑我舉這兩個例子,所以我就要請教一下,院長,為什麼通報數會越來越高,但是確認率是越來越低,這個問題是出在哪裡呢?\n\n03:57.882 --> 04:13.362\n謝謝委員提醒這個必須要很真實的去檢討跟反應我一向主張政府所有的資訊應該正確而公開讓大家能夠來瞭解這個事實提供更多的意見我們才能做有效的管控這兩個案件都發生在不久的之前\n\n04:14.784 --> 04:29.259\n地方政府的教育單位應該要有一個很完整的說明,也應該用這個來告訴所有的人。其中我舉兩個案子,那我只是要來說明就是說那為什麼我們這一個通報率這麼高,確認率會這麼低,到底是問題是出在哪裡?我不是講個案,我是講這個整體的一個現象。\n\n04:33.610 --> 05:00.832\n跟委員報告,確實我們就是擔心說校園有一些這個霸凌的行為被遮掩,也就是形成黑素。所以我們鼓勵這一個老師、這一個教育人員,只要有學生之間彼此的一些可能的一些言語或者肢體或者網路或者可能疑似的,全部都一定要通報。沒有通報的話,他事實上是會受到這一個懲處的。\n\n05:01.833 --> 05:16.657\n那也因為這樣大概就是說只要有這一個儀式他全部大大小小全部可能同學之間的一些玩戲上所以他這個通報數就增加了我們本來就是希望不要\n\n05:17.197 --> 05:18.358\n三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n05:43.229 --> 05:46.673\n我只是提醒院長跟部長就是說你的2021的確認率到17、2022年到11這個數字降得太快\n\n06:05.113 --> 06:07.816\n學生輔導法修正法案也送到立法院來,也正在審查。\n\n06:28.516 --> 06:29.197\n在校園裡面有出現老師慌的問題。\n\n06:47.448 --> 07:11.937\n有這個背景的年輕人不願意來學校當老師或是說當了老師不願意去處理這些問題像很多的學校裡面現在當導師的都是代理老師當導師我們是希望說他是有經驗的人但是很多都是剛到學校的代理老師他就當導師那你說你要賦予他更多的責任來做這個輔導學生心理輔導等等之類的\n\n07:13.217 --> 07:16.420\n中文報告確實這一點我們也在這個跟地方在希望能夠透過一個大家的一個溝通協調能夠讓這一個減少這個代理老師為什麼因為\n\n07:36.198 --> 07:57.197\n地方考慮到許多的因素,包括這個少子女化,這個學生人口,他們預估了這個未來,所以在許多的教師延額,他並沒有真正的把它釋放出來,每年去提供一定名額的。現在很多學校都是代理老師。就是說學校大概就保留了15%,甚至有一些縣市甚至\n\n07:58.058 --> 07:58.078\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n\n08:14.432 --> 08:25.176\n這次按照這個國建署的這個資料,110年的這個資料,國中生吸菸是2.2%,然後到了高中值的話,上升到7.2%,這是止菸。電子菸的這個使用率提高了,在107年的時候國中生是1.9%,到110年上升到3.9%。\n\n08:32.810 --> 08:53.537\n然後高中生呢?高中職生呢?從3.4%上升到8.8%這是電子菸所以你看紫菸好像沒什麼增加但是電子菸增加了很多電子菸增加了很多有一個問題就是說它很容易取得電子菸很容易取得那你知道院長這個電子菸我們是不能在網路上販賣的\n\n08:55.197 --> 09:22.208\n但是呢現在你在網路上要買電子煙相當相當的容易按照這個國建署這個在今年1月份發布的資料是去年底他總共開出了3343萬的罰單那這應該都是這個平台上面的賣家或是個人去罰他們的然後呢集中在三個平台這個Facebook、IG、露天拍賣等等我認為院長要注意一下\n\n09:23.428 --> 09:46.194\n這個開出了這個三千多萬的罰單裡面﹖應該都是罰個人﹖罰賣家﹖有沒有罰平台﹖有沒有﹖我們過去對平台是沒有辦法﹖因為他沒有落地就沒有辦法納管﹖未來我們在新的打詐司法當中﹖我們要求在台灣的平台﹖你要落地﹖要管理﹖你做廣告就必須真實﹖是可以罰﹖嘉義縣他有罰﹖\n\n09:47.034 --> 10:02.683\n加一線他就罰那個平台,罰了40萬,所以平台不是不能罰,我們打在就是說要求他們落地嘛,要做處理,我是希望說這個電子營尤其像剛我提到的這三個主要的平台,大部分都集中在這三個平台。\n\n10:03.283 --> 10:19.617\n你要去注意,就是說不能賣電子煙,啊就賣電子煙,那可是罰不到他們啊。我認為就是說,不管是當然跟教育有關係,但是跟速發部有關係。我認為在電子煙人會取得這方面,我認為要人家控管。\n\n10:20.317 --> 10:22.998\n按照教育部今年6月有來立法院做一個報告\n\n10:45.742 --> 10:55.667\n這個藥物濫用問題在111年這個國小、國中、高中、大專合計起來是400位,到了112年呢483位,有增加。那今年呢這個1到4月當時候你們報告是151位,那但是呢到了這個8月應該是將近300位了。\n\n11:06.112 --> 11:19.923\n那這個呢,藥物濫用的情況呢,我認為是有增加的這個情況。那我去看了一下,國建署他們的一個報告,當然還是以這個三級的毒品為主。那我現在就要提到了,\n\n11:21.314 --> 11:49.006\n這個在年輕人流行的這個電子煙當中呢有一種叫做喪屍煙油那依托彌子那當然呢這個我們行政院在今年的8月呢已經公告正式公告為三級的毒品了那這個之前也造成很多悲劇啦光是在我們新北市三重7月份有一位員警被這個西池這個喪屍煙大人撞死了一位黃姓員警被撞死了\n\n11:49.568 --> 12:16.083\n然後呢9月底也是一樣是在土城的一位所長劉所長在執行的時候他也是被撞死了然後那個撞他的人身上也有說出這個喪屍煙油那他們是這個我們把這個電子煙跟這個喪屍煙油合在一起來講就是說現在很多的這個電子煙的成分裡面可能會有像這個喪屍煙油或是其他的毒品\n\n12:16.886 --> 12:17.246\n這兩個都是違禁的物品\n\n12:46.092 --> 13:11.779\n對,任何的違紀物品,我們都希望透過能夠大力的取締去發掘它的源頭最重要。剛剛委員所說的,我們如果網路上很容易買到,那就是我們很大的一個破口。很容易買到了,你隨便去Google電子菸,網路上一堆。那我想警政單位也都知道,那現在我們進一步可以加強,以後不僅是嘉義縣可以去處罰平台,全國依照新的法律,如果我們落地之後,納管之後,\n\n13:12.159 --> 13:39.446\n我們希望能夠加強取締跟管制我們打造專訪通過之後就要求剛才講的那些數位平台都要落地我們好像是給他到這一個年底的時間我是希望能夠加速因為我們還有19個執法目前正在完成當中完成之後這部大的機器才能夠順暢的來驅動好那這個在最後再問這一個院長這個剛剛好像有委員問過了就可能沒時間看但是有聽過這一個黑白大廚吧\n\n13:41.386 --> 13:51.850\n黑白大廚裡面有一位晉級的李美英他是韓國國小營養午餐的廚師很不容易做營養午餐的廚師能夠到黑白大廚裡面進入到前15強\n\n14:01.915 --> 14:20.628\n這在台灣不可能發生,因為在台灣的營養午餐不好吃,你不可能做這個餐廚的廚師能夠晉級到這個黑白大廚裡面去,甚至能夠進入到前面。那我就比較我們跟韓國好了,韓國呢,他們全部都是由政府來出錢。\n\n14:21.929 --> 14:41.063\n社廚房公辦公營當然預算也很高每個孩子每餐的預算高達200塊而且學校廚工也比例很高但是在臺灣有公辦公營、公辦民營、民辦民營不一樣的種類很多最重要的是我們的餐費40到70\n\n14:44.630 --> 15:03.055\n跟韓國比,韓國是由政府來出錢的,我們平均是55塊,所以我們在人事成本跟食材跟韓國就沒辦法比。我舉這個例子是希望說,教育部其實我們都很關心是不是這個營養午餐法能夠提出來。\n\n15:06.252 --> 15:26.245\n委員部長,我們都應該不定時不預告的去吃吃營養午餐,我們才能親身感受到委員所說的,如何讓他更好。你有空我就帶你一起來吃學校的這個營養午餐。很多委員有提出了,類似這個學校共餐法,還要營養午餐,那我們也希望說,\n\n15:27.365 --> 15:36.148\n補人、補專業、永續發展,讓孩子在學校能夠吃得安全、然後吃得開心、吃得健康、吃菜地的食材好不好?\n\n16:01.592 --> 16:02.638\n謝謝李坤城委員的質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":21.761,"end":27.844,"text":"謝謝院長我們請左院長還有我們的政部長麻煩請左院長教育部長開始備選"},{"start":36.36,"end":57.645,"text":"李委員好院長好、部長好辛苦了今天我應該是最後一位質詢有一些關於教育的問題然後還要爭取教育的預算來請教我們的院長跟部長那我先請教一下院長那你認為說在目前的校園中有哪些問題你認為比較嚴重的如果委員所問的應該是校園"},{"start":65.385,"end":89.816,"text":"這個毒品的年紀往下降年輕化的問題我們現在會列為很重要的一個議題除了毒品之外還有嗎?另外可能是一些霸凌事件是這個霸凌的事件然後你剛才院長有提到就是說這一個藥物濫用毒品的問題然後我把這個吸煙人口增加我也把它納進去那當然還有很多問題那我今天就這三個問題來就教院長還有部長"},{"start":93.297,"end":121.61,"text":"那根據這個林傳媒他們在9月份做了一個民調在國小階段關於校園安全還有校園霸凌的問題這個是大家所關心的排名是第二名高達六成左右的民眾來關心但是到了這個國高中階段的話呢校園安全還有校園霸凌排位在第一名表示說到了這個國高中階段大家對於校園霸凌是非常的重視這是一般民眾的一些問卷看法"},{"start":122.55,"end":151.72,"text":"還有臺灣兒童權力公約聯盟在10月初有做了一個調查,它是針對將近3800位小六的學童所做了一個霸凌的調查。其中有36.4%的兒童有被霸凌的經驗,46.1%有霸凌的經驗,有兩成的小六的兒童是有被霸凌,但是也有霸凌其他人,就是受害者但同時也是加害者。"},{"start":152.24,"end":169.958,"text":"這次特別針對小六的兒童的一個調查好那我就是要來問這個院長跟部長這個在我們教育部有一個校園霸凌通報還有這個確認的這個案件的這個統計表那我來看的話呢通報數是越來越多"},{"start":171.019,"end":191.316,"text":"但是確認率是越來越低,從30%降到11.4%,我們當然不希望說有冤案,但是成案率低,也會造成通報的意願低,形成霸凌的黑數。這些都會變成後來霸凌的悲劇。我隨便舉幾個例子,就最近的例子。"},{"start":192.168,"end":221.001,"text":"就是有通報但確認率很低的在今年的1月份有台北市某國小是一個學生涉及長期的霸凌但是他後來被學校列為當選模範生而且還上台接受表揚然後議員就質疑說校方的通報失靈然後在8月份在新北市某個國小的學生也是用巴掌霸凌同學但是這個孩子已經要生"},{"start":221.923,"end":236.676,"text":"我中了,家長還沒有收到調查的結果。 兩張沙灑我舉這兩個例子,所以我就要請教一下, 院長,為什麼通報數會越來越高,但是確認率是越來越低,這個問題是出在哪裡呢?"},{"start":237.882,"end":253.362,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 這個必須要很真實的去檢討跟反應 我一向主張政府所有的資訊應該正確而公開 讓大家能夠來瞭解這個事實提供更多的意見 我們才能做有效的管控 這兩個案件都發生在不久的之前"},{"start":254.784,"end":269.259,"text":"地方政府的教育單位應該要有一個很完整的說明,也應該用這個來告訴所有的人。 其中我舉兩個案子,那我只是要來說明就是說那為什麼我們這一個通報率這麼高,確認率會這麼低,到底是問題是出在哪裡?我不是講個案,我是講這個整體的一個現象。"},{"start":273.61,"end":300.832,"text":"跟委員報告,確實我們就是擔心說校園有一些這個霸凌的行為被遮掩,也就是形成黑素。所以我們鼓勵這一個老師、這一個教育人員,只要有學生之間彼此的一些可能的一些言語或者肢體或者網路或者可能疑似的,全部都一定要通報。沒有通報的話,他事實上是會受到這一個懲處的。"},{"start":301.833,"end":316.657,"text":"那也因為這樣大概就是說只要有這一個儀式他全部大大小小全部可能同學之間的一些玩戲上所以他這個通報數就增加了我們本來就是希望不要"},{"start":317.197,"end":318.358,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":343.229,"end":346.673,"text":"我只是提醒院長跟部長就是說你的2021的確認率到17、2022年到11這個數字降得太快"},{"start":365.113,"end":367.816,"text":"學生輔導法修正法案也送到立法院來,也正在審查。"},{"start":388.516,"end":389.197,"text":"在校園裡面有出現老師慌的問題。"},{"start":407.448,"end":431.937,"text":"有這個背景的年輕人不願意來學校當老師或是說當了老師不願意去處理這些問題像很多的學校裡面現在當導師的都是代理老師當導師我們是希望說他是有經驗的人但是很多都是剛到學校的代理老師他就當導師那你說你要賦予他更多的責任來做這個輔導學生心理輔導等等之類的"},{"start":433.217,"end":436.42,"text":"中文報告確實這一點我們也在這個跟地方在希望能夠透過一個大家的一個溝通協調能夠讓這一個減少這個代理老師為什麼因為"},{"start":456.198,"end":477.197,"text":"地方考慮到許多的因素,包括這個少子女化,這個學生人口,他們預估了這個未來,所以在許多的教師延額,他並沒有真正的把它釋放出來,每年去提供一定名額的。 現在很多學校都是代理老師。 就是說學校大概就保留了15%,甚至有一些縣市甚至"},{"start":478.058,"end":478.078,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":494.432,"end":505.176,"text":"這次按照這個國建署的這個資料,110年的這個資料,國中生吸菸是2.2%,然後到了高中值的話,上升到7.2%,這是止菸。 電子菸的這個使用率提高了,在107年的時候國中生是1.9%,到110年上升到3.9%。"},{"start":512.81,"end":533.537,"text":"然後高中生呢?高中職生呢?從3.4%上升到8.8%這是電子菸所以你看紫菸好像沒什麼增加但是電子菸增加了很多電子菸增加了很多有一個問題就是說它很容易取得電子菸很容易取得那你知道院長這個電子菸我們是不能在網路上販賣的"},{"start":535.197,"end":562.208,"text":"但是呢現在你在網路上要買電子煙相當相當的容易按照這個國建署這個在今年1月份發布的資料是去年底他總共開出了3343萬的罰單那這應該都是這個平台上面的賣家或是個人去罰他們的然後呢集中在三個平台這個Facebook、IG、露天拍賣等等我認為院長要注意一下"},{"start":563.428,"end":586.194,"text":"這個開出了這個三千多萬的罰單裡面﹖應該都是罰個人﹖罰賣家﹖有沒有罰平台﹖有沒有﹖我們過去對平台是沒有辦法﹖因為他沒有落地就沒有辦法納管﹖未來我們在新的打詐司法當中﹖我們要求在台灣的平台﹖你要落地﹖要管理﹖你做廣告就必須真實﹖是可以罰﹖嘉義縣他有罰﹖"},{"start":587.034,"end":602.683,"text":"加一線他就罰那個平台,罰了40萬,所以平台不是不能罰,我們打在就是說要求他們落地嘛,要做處理,我是希望說這個電子營尤其像剛我提到的這三個主要的平台,大部分都集中在這三個平台。"},{"start":603.283,"end":619.617,"text":"你要去注意,就是說不能賣電子煙,啊就賣電子煙,那可是罰不到他們啊。我認為就是說,不管是當然跟教育有關係,但是跟速發部有關係。我認為在電子煙人會取得這方面,我認為要人家控管。"},{"start":620.317,"end":622.998,"text":"按照教育部今年6月有來立法院做一個報告"},{"start":645.742,"end":655.667,"text":"這個藥物濫用問題在111年這個國小、國中、高中、大專合計起來是400位,到了112年呢483位,有增加。那今年呢這個1到4月當時候你們報告是151位,那但是呢到了這個8月應該是將近300位了。"},{"start":666.112,"end":679.923,"text":"那這個呢,藥物濫用的情況呢,我認為是有增加的這個情況。那我去看了一下,國建署他們的一個報告,當然還是以這個三級的毒品為主。那我現在就要提到了,"},{"start":681.314,"end":709.006,"text":"這個在年輕人流行的這個電子煙當中呢有一種叫做喪屍煙油那依托彌子那當然呢這個我們行政院在今年的8月呢已經公告正式公告為三級的毒品了那這個之前也造成很多悲劇啦光是在我們新北市三重7月份有一位員警被這個西池這個喪屍煙大人撞死了一位黃姓員警被撞死了"},{"start":709.568,"end":736.083,"text":"然後呢9月底也是一樣是在土城的一位所長劉所長在執行的時候他也是被撞死了然後那個撞他的人身上也有說出這個喪屍煙油那他們是這個我們把這個電子煙跟這個喪屍煙油合在一起來講就是說現在很多的這個電子煙的成分裡面可能會有像這個喪屍煙油或是其他的毒品"},{"start":736.886,"end":737.246,"text":"這兩個都是違禁的物品"},{"start":766.092,"end":791.779,"text":"對,任何的違紀物品,我們都希望透過能夠大力的取締去發掘它的源頭最重要。 剛剛委員所說的,我們如果網路上很容易買到,那就是我們很大的一個破口。很容易買到了,你隨便去Google電子菸,網路上一堆。那我想警政單位也都知道,那現在我們進一步可以加強,以後不僅是嘉義縣可以去處罰平台,全國依照新的法律,如果我們落地之後,納管之後,"},{"start":792.159,"end":819.446,"text":"我們希望能夠加強取締跟管制我們打造專訪通過之後就要求剛才講的那些數位平台都要落地我們好像是給他到這一個年底的時間我是希望能夠加速因為我們還有19個執法目前正在完成當中完成之後這部大的機器才能夠順暢的來驅動好那這個在最後再問這一個院長這個剛剛好像有委員問過了就可能沒時間看但是有聽過這一個黑白大廚吧"},{"start":821.386,"end":831.85,"text":"黑白大廚裡面有一位晉級的李美英他是韓國國小營養午餐的廚師很不容易做營養午餐的廚師能夠到黑白大廚裡面進入到前15強"},{"start":841.915,"end":860.628,"text":"這在台灣不可能發生,因為在台灣的營養午餐不好吃,你不可能做這個餐廚的廚師能夠晉級到這個黑白大廚裡面去,甚至能夠進入到前面。 那我就比較我們跟韓國好了,韓國呢,他們全部都是由政府來出錢。"},{"start":861.929,"end":881.063,"text":"社廚房公辦公營當然預算也很高每個孩子每餐的預算高達200塊而且學校廚工也比例很高但是在臺灣有公辦公營、公辦民營、民辦民營不一樣的種類很多最重要的是我們的餐費40到70"},{"start":884.63,"end":903.055,"text":"跟韓國比,韓國是由政府來出錢的,我們平均是55塊,所以我們在人事成本跟食材跟韓國就沒辦法比。我舉這個例子是希望說,教育部其實我們都很關心是不是這個營養午餐法能夠提出來。"},{"start":906.252,"end":926.245,"text":"委員部長,我們都應該不定時不預告的去吃吃營養午餐,我們才能親身感受到委員所說的,如何讓他更好。你有空我就帶你一起來吃學校的這個營養午餐。很多委員有提出了,類似這個學校共餐法,還要營養午餐,那我們也希望說,"},{"start":927.365,"end":936.148,"text":"補人、補專業、永續發展,讓孩子在學校能夠吃得安全、然後吃得開心、吃得健康、吃菜地的食材好不好?"},{"start":961.592,"end":962.638,"text":"謝謝李坤城委員的質詢"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-4","title":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-15T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"16:08:07 - 16:24:10","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","id":155487,"gazette":{"lineno":334,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（16時8分）謝謝院長，我們請卓院長還有鄭部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長、教育部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：院長好、部長好，辛苦了，今天我應該是最後一位質詢。有一些關於教育的問題，然後還有爭取教育的預算，要來請教院長跟部長，我先請教一下院長，在目前的校園中有哪些問題，你認為是比較嚴重的？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員所問的應該是校園毒品的年紀往下降、年輕化的問題，我們現在會列為很重要的一個議題。"],["李委員坤城：除了毒品之外還有嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：另外可能是一些霸凌事件。"],["李委員坤城：是，霸凌的事件，然後剛才院長有提到就是藥物濫用、毒品的問題，然後我把吸菸人口增加也納進去，當然還有很多問題，我今天就這三個問題來就教院長還有部長。根據菱傳媒在9月份做的民調，在國小階段關於校園安全還有校園霸凌的問題，這個是大家所關心的，排名是第二名，高達六成左右的民眾在關心。但是到了國高中階段，校園安全及校園霸凌是排位在第一名，表示到了國高中階段，大家對於校園霸凌是非常地重視，這是一般民眾的一些問卷看法。","另外，台灣兒童權利公約聯盟在10月初有做了一個調查，它是針對將近3,800位的小六學童所做的一個霸凌調查，其中有36.4%的兒童有被霸凌的經驗，46.1%有霸凌的經驗，有兩成的小六兒童是有被霸凌，但是也有霸凌其他人，就是受害者但同時也是加害者，這是特別針對小六兒童的一個調查。我要問院長跟部長，在教育部有一個校園霸凌通報及確認案件的統計表，我來看的話，通報數是越來越多，但是確認率是越來越低，從30%降到11.4%，我們當然不希望有冤案，但是成案率低也會造成通報意願低，而形成霸凌黑數，這些後來都會變成霸凌的一個悲劇。","我隨便舉幾個例子，這是最近的例子，就是有通報但確認率很低的。在今年1月份，有臺北市某國小的一個學生涉及長期霸凌，但是他後來被學校列為當選模範生，而且還上臺接受表揚，而議員就質疑校方的通報失靈；在8月份，新北市某個國小學生也是用巴掌霸凌同學，但是這個孩子已經要升國中了，家長還沒有收到調查的結果。我洋洋灑灑地舉了這兩個例子，我要請教一下院長，為什麼通報數會越來越高，但確認率是越來越低，這個問題是出在哪裡呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員提醒，這個必須要很真實地去檢討跟反映，我一向主張政府所有的資訊應該正確而公開，讓大家能夠了解這個事實，提供更多的意見，我們才能做有效的管控。"],["李委員坤城：是啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：這兩個案件都發生在不久之前，我覺得地方政府的教育單位應該要有一個很完整的說明，也應該用這個來告訴所有的人。"],["李委員坤城：這只是我舉其中的兩個案子，我只是要來說明為什麼通報率這麼高，確認率會這麼低，到底問題是出在哪裡？我不是講個案，我是講整體的現象。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實我們就是擔心校園有一些霸凌的行為被遮掩，也就是形成黑數，所以我們鼓勵老師及教育人員，只要學生之間彼此可能有一些言語或者肢體或者網路或者可能疑似的全部都一定要通報，沒有通報的話，他事實上是會受到懲處的，也因為這樣，大概只要有疑似，大大小小全部……"],["李委員坤城：可是那個確認率也太低了吧！"],["鄭部長英耀：可能同學之間的一些玩戲上，所以這個通報數就增加了，我們本來就是希望不要錯過任何真正有加害的情形。"],["李委員坤城：當然我知道，但是我質疑的地方是……"],["鄭部長英耀：也因為這樣，所以當然通報以後，學校會有一定的審查機制，而這一個審查機制就會按照我們所定義的一些霸凌行為裡面做一個比較詳細的審查，因此這個通報數多，而到時候確認的是比較少，我想這也可能是在校園裡面因為我們鼓勵老師不要讓任何一個學生受到……"],["李委員坤城：沒關係，我只是提醒院長及部長，2021年的確認率到17%，2022年到11%，這個數字降得太快，其中不知道有什麼問題出現，這方面我請院長及部長要注意一下。當然我也知道現在有校園霸凌防制準則，在今年4月也有公布，學生輔導法的修正法案也送到立法院來了，也正在審查，但是我要跟院長提醒，在校園裡面，最重要的主體是學生，當然老師也很重要，早上也聽到有委員提到在校園裡面有出現老師荒的問題，正式老師、代理老師都有出現老師荒的問題，如果有背景的年輕人不願意來學校當老師，或是當了老師卻不願意去處理這些問題，像很多的學校裡面，現在當導師的都是代理老師，我們是希望有經驗的人當導師，但是很多都是剛到學校的代理老師，他就當導師了，你說你要賦予他更多的責任來做輔導學生、心理輔導等等之類的，他並不一定有足夠的訓練，這也是會形成校園安全的一些問題，我希望這一點請院長跟部長要稍微注意一下。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實這一點我們跟地方也希望透過溝通協調，能夠減少代理老師，為什麼？因為地方考慮到許多的因素，包括少子女化學生人口的部分，他們預估了未來的情形，所以許多的教師員額，它並沒有真正地釋放出來，每年去提供一定名額的……"],["李委員坤城：現在很多學校都是代理老師耶！"],["鄭部長英耀：就是說學校大概保留了15%，有一些縣市甚至保留到20%這麼高的一個員額，所以它就沒有真正去開放專任老師的員額，然後變成用代理老師，這個我們正在跟地方政府建議。"],["李委員坤城：你們要跟地方政府、教育局來做個檢討。第二個，吸菸人口增加，這是按照國健署110年的資料，國中生吸菸的比率是2.2%，然後到了高中職的話，上升到7.2%，這是紙菸。電子煙的使用率更是提高了，在107年的時候，國中生是1.9%，到了110年上升到3.9%，然後高中職生從3.4%上升到8.8%，這是電子煙。你看紙菸好像沒什麼增加，但是電子煙增加了很多，電子煙增加了很多有一個問題，就是它很容易取得，電子煙很容易取得，院長，你知道電子煙我們是不能在網路上販賣的喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["李委員坤城：但是現在你在網路上要買電子煙卻是相當相當地容易，按照國健署在今年1月份發布的資料，去年底它總共開出了3,343萬的罰單，這應該都是罰平臺上面的賣家或是個人，然後集中在3個平臺──Facebook、IG、露天拍賣等等，我認為院長要注意一下，開出的這個三千多萬的罰單裡面，應該都是罰個人、罰賣家，有沒有罰平臺？有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們過去對平臺是沒有辦法，因為它沒有落地就沒有辦法納管，未來我們在新的打詐四法當中，我們要求在臺灣的平臺要落地、要管理，你做廣告就必須真實。"],["李委員坤城：院長，是可以罰的，嘉義縣有罰，嘉義縣就罰那個平臺罰了40萬，所以平臺不是不能罰，我們打詐就是要求他們落地、要做處理嘛，我是希望電子煙，尤其像剛剛我提到的這三個主要的平臺，大部分都集中在這三個平臺，你要去注意，不能賣電子煙，結果它賣電子煙，可是罰不到他們，當然這跟數發部有關係。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟數發部有關係。"],["李委員坤城：在電子煙很容易取得這方面，我認為要嚴加控管，除了賣的人之外，平臺也要嚴加控管。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["李委員坤城：不然太容易取得啦！你隨便去Google，真的，你打「電子煙」，在網路上太多地方可以買了，這是一個非常嚴重的問題。我從電子煙再延伸到另外一個問題，就是藥物濫用的問題，教育部今年6月有來立法院做一個報告，這個藥物濫用的問題，在111年國小、國中、高中職、大專合計起來是400位，到了112年是483位，有增加，今年1到4月當時你們的報告是151位，但是到了8月應該是將近300位了，我認為藥物濫用有增加的情況。","我去看了一下國健署的報告，當然還是以三級的毒品為主，我現在就要提到了，在年輕人流行的電子煙當中，有一種叫做依托咪酯（喪屍煙油），當然行政院在今年8月已經正式公告為三級毒品了，這個之前也造成很多悲劇，光是在我們新北市三重，7月份有一位員警被吸食喪屍煙彈的人撞死了，一位黃姓員警被撞死了；9月底也是一樣，土城的一位劉所長在值勤的時候，他也是被撞死了，然後撞他的人身上也有搜出喪屍煙油。我們把電子煙跟喪屍煙油合在一起來講，就是現在很多的電子煙的成分裡面，可能會有像喪屍煙油或是其他的毒品含在裡面，我想請問一下院長，這個你們怎麼去防止它？一個是電子煙的取得越來越容易，另外是毒品的使用，不管是年齡或是新興的毒品越來越多，怎麼把電子煙跟新興毒品合在一起造成青少年的危害做一個處理？"],["卓院長榮泰：這兩個都是違禁的物品。"],["李委員坤城：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：任何的違禁物品我們都希望能夠透過大力的取締，去發掘它的源頭最重要，剛剛委員所說的，如果網路上很容易買到，那就是我們很大的一個破口。"],["李委員坤城：太容易買到了，只是隨便去google電子煙，網路上一堆。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，是很大一個破口，我想警政單位也都知道，現在我們進一步可以加強，以後不僅是嘉義縣可以去處罰平臺，全國依照新的法律，如果落地納管之後，我們希望能夠加強取締跟管制。"],["李委員坤城：打詐專法通過之後就要求剛才講的那些數位平臺都要落地嘛！我們好像是給它到年底的時間，我是希望能夠加速。"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們還有19個子法，目前在完成當中，完成之後，這部大的機器才能順暢地來驅動。"],["李委員坤城：好，最後再問院長，剛剛好像有委員有問過了，院長可能沒時間看，但是有聽過「黑白大廚」吧？「黑白大廚」裡面有一位晉級的叫做李美英，他是韓國國小的營養午餐廚師，很不容易，做營養午餐的廚師能夠到「黑白大廚」裡面獲得晉級，進入到前15強。然後一般人就講說這在臺灣不可能發生，因為臺灣的營養午餐不好吃，不可能做餐廚的廚師能夠晉級到「黑白大廚」裡面去，甚至能夠進入到前面。","我們就比較我們跟韓國好了，韓國他們全部都是由政府來出錢、設廚房、公辦公營，當然預算也很高，每個孩子每餐的預算高達200塊，而且學校廚工的比例也很高；但是在臺灣，有公辦公營、公辦民營、民辦民營，不一樣的種類很多，最重要的是我們的餐費40到70，沒辦法跟韓國比，韓國是由政府來出錢的，我們平均是55塊，所以我們在人事成本跟食材跟韓國就沒有辦法比。我舉這個例子是希望教育部，其實我們都很關心是不是營養午餐法能夠提出來啦？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員、部長，我們都應該不定時、不預告的去吃營養午餐，才能親身感受到委員所說的如何讓它更好。"],["李委員坤城：你有空我就帶你一起來吃學校的營養午餐。"],["卓院長榮泰：要不定期、不預告才可以。"],["李委員坤城：對，很多委員有提出了類似學校供餐法還有營養午餐法，我們也希望補人、補專業、永續發展，讓孩子在學校能夠吃得安全，然後吃得開心、吃得健康、吃在地的食材，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想這個本來就是我們努力的目標，包含在地的……"],["李委員坤城：對，可是你們相關的法令一直沒有提出來啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：事實上……"],["卓院長榮泰：有啦、有啦，在地。"],["鄭部長英耀：在地食材事實上都是在營養午餐裡面。"],["卓院長榮泰：還是需要努力，再跟委員一起討論。"],["李委員坤城：最後，我時間來不及了，關於三重區學校的建設，這邊有一份資料，我送給院長還有部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及部會首長的備詢。","接下來登記第16號王美惠委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員王美惠書面質詢：","案由：本院王委員美惠，就第11屆第二會期院會總質詢個人質詢教育及文化組，特提出質詢。","說明：","1.嘉義市文化創意產業園區現由文化部委由財團法人臺灣生活美學基金會經營管理，成效斐然。在地發展與中央支持均為文化產業發展之重要元素，中央與地方應以共同合作之態度，發展地方特色之原則為主。請文化部檢視相關中央地方合作事項之制度、程序，以使中央地方能充分溝通、合作。","2.嘉義市圖書總館爭取公共建設計畫經費已於113年6月11日獲得國家發展委員會同意，惟相關執行於教育部提報行政院時因計畫細節不完整而遭退回。嘉義市圖書總館計畫是嘉義市重要之文化、教育據點，相關時程已遭延宕，請教育部與行政院盡速完善相關程序，使本案能盡速推動。","3.我國體育賽事於國際賽場屢創佳績，然而我國體育選手之基層培育、訓練制度與運動行業之商業化、職業化等似未能突破窠臼，導致體育環境仍處於奪牌時一時風光，奪牌後乃至未奪牌仍相對困窘。雖體育署已盡力改善相關情況，然近年仍爆發出國家隊女足使用國訓中心爭議事件、女子籃球出場費爭議事件等，凸顯我國體育發展仍有不足。近來行政院已深入討論設置體育部之具體細節，爰請體育署就我國體育相關發展問題做政策性之通盤檢討，俾便作為體育部設置時之參考。","綜上、為使政府政令推動順利、國家發展健全，爰請針對各該問題提出書面報告。"],["主席：報告院會，本日排定質詢之委員均已質詢完畢，謝謝卓院長以及相關列席的部會首長列席答詢。現在作以下之決定：下次會議進行交通組之質詢。","報告院會，現在我們繼續處理復議案。","本院民進黨黨團針對第3次會議報告事項第九案及第六十三案之決定提出復議，請公決案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":179,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃珊珊","林楚茵","葛如鈞","林德福","鄭正鈐","林沛祥","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","范雲","謝衣鳯","莊瑞雄","黃建賓","陳秀寳","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅美玲","黃捷","張雅琳","李坤城","王美惠"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00003","1137801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137801_00004"}}}