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00:01:55,743\n他的製造過程當中根據CNS14438標準他會加入這些金屬來提高他的求化率求化率高是好的這是基本的背景請看你讓部長繼續瞭解我們來看看這個防爆管這個配件的金屬材料要比什麼呢就是拉伸強度比一比大家可以看到這個圖最優秀的最好就是求墨鑄鐵但是他的標準是需要求化率\n\n5\n00:01:56,383 --> 00:01:58,064\n外面的那個水溝那個道路上的水溝蓋就是回口注疊做的\n\n6\n00:02:23,524 --> 00:02:23,664\n﹚台電當時的採購要求\n\n7\n00:02:46,590 --> 00:03:10,246\n他這個要求是對的他要求可斷鑄鐵那可斷鑄鐵買不到了已經停產十幾年那鍍鑫鋼就是所謂的鋼鋼是可以用的甚至強度更好的這個球末鑄鐵那這個球末是目前最理想的材質我想這個部分是很重要那我要強調是說廠商交貨的時候他交給台電只能是貴部勞動部經過這個勞動部TS認證\n\n8\n00:03:14,068 --> 00:03:15,430\n陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿\n\n9\n00:03:30,137 --> 00:03:47,957\n部長您可以看到抽了10樣幾樣不及格6樣不及格這非常嚴重這個深芳蒙玉這兩家產品不斷密封這個接頭圓形接線和油刃都被驗出有縮狀石墨縮狀石墨就是剛剛我談到的有含那幾個金屬\n\n10\n00:03:48,878 --> 00:04:07,575\n他是會助燃的那另外你可以看到這個政賀的這個政賀公司這邊有那個廠商的名字政賀的圓形接線盒出現兩種鑄鐵一個是灰口鑄鐵一個是球狀石墨鑄鐵球狀石墨鑄鐵是ok的可是灰口鑄鐵他的求化率是零欸\n\n11\n00:04:29,133 --> 00:04:33,136\n我要談的是勞動部負責TS認證那也有勞動部該負的責任就是說聽到這裡為止部長您覺得勞動部可以負起什麼樣責任因為畢竟TS認證是由貴部來進行的是謝謝委員委員在追尋這個問題的時候我就有注意這件事我們也請我們職安署那麼我們在10月1號我們有把樣本的那個材質\n\n12\n00:04:58,482 --> 00:05:14,758\n出篩的報告含送給臺電要求他進一步送實驗室測試他的樣本材質那麼因為他疑似不當張貼啦他疑似不當張貼我們提的是安全標誌他不合格貼就是假的有這樣的問題那麼我們也在10月1號把他移送檢調查處\n\n13\n00:05:20,163 --> 00:05:47,621\n我們現在主導移送檢調查處了我們也要求他10月8號函給他們的廠商要在45天裡面提出材質符合的檢測報告不准我的背景是藥學你知道食藥署在管理很多藥廠的時候他進了很多品質規範嘛從早期的GMP到後來是GMP到現在PIXGMP都希望能夠跟國際接軌這第一個那他這個品質規範的目的就是讓所有產品一致你不能說我去受驗的時候是最優質的\n\n14\n00:06:07,410 --> 00:06:22,879\n為什麼我覺得勞動部還是要負責任這個是機械設備器具形式檢定作業要點第12條第一項檢定機構受理申請後應為檢定並為必要之測試及生產技術品質一致性的查核\n\n15\n00:06:23,539 --> 00:06:39,658\n就是跟藥品管理概念一樣就是你給了他認證許可證你後續還有一些查核的這個動作所以我們到底就是說第一個到底廠商當時拿了goldensample就是最優質的產品讓你去檢驗呢那事實上生產的時候是另外一件事情\n\n16\n00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:40,319\n：陳昭姿\n\n17\n00:07:03,832 --> 00:07:11,054\n平常的時候他就應該要有一個必要的測試就跟定一次以後不是就結束了對是我們是應該要我們會來檢討好嗎我請這個治安署部長對我還是希望說研究有一個因為事實上那個蒙玉的產品下一張他驗收的時候是有送金屬中心\n\n18\n00:07:45,676 --> 00:08:08,440\n我要談的是就是說8月6號的時候其實就發現產品不合格那事實上在2019年的話本黨的那個洪國昌委員他沒有提出一些在臺電廠裡面有使用不合格產品可是這個產品後來就說要去檢查要繼續去追查但是都沒有報告所以部長是不是說最後一張我想說有關貴部的新聞稿就是說那時候我們提出這麼重大的事件\n\n19\n00:08:13,041 --> 00:08:13,461\n謝謝陳昭姿委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4164\t7407\t謝謝主席 有請何部長 何部長部長 針對大林電廠出現防爆電機管配件的弊案 我們在9月30日的時候有做出的記者會 我相信你們大概有一定程度的了解 因為後來你們也提出了一個新聞稿回應 那細節我不多說 但是我無法接受那個台電 他用了80億的\n31425\t51118\t﹗\n51338\t68785\t整個場區還有附近鄰居的安全當然更攸關工作人員的生命安全我先把這個背景讓部長了解一下那我相信部長知道在根據國家的CNS3376標準他講得非常清楚爆炸性的環境你使用的金屬的這個\n70606\t70646\t陳昭姿\n90126\t115743\t他的製造過程當中根據CNS14438標準他會加入這些金屬來提高他的求化率求化率高是好的這是基本的背景請看你讓部長繼續瞭解我們來看看這個防爆管這個配件的金屬材料要比什麼呢就是拉伸強度比一比大家可以看到這個圖最優秀的最好就是求墨鑄鐵但是他的標準是需要求化率\n116383\t118064\t外面的那個水溝那個道路上的水溝蓋就是回口注疊做的\n143524\t143664\t﹚台電當時的採購要求\n166590\t190246\t他這個要求是對的他要求可斷鑄鐵那可斷鑄鐵買不到了已經停產十幾年那鍍鑫鋼就是所謂的鋼鋼是可以用的甚至強度更好的這個球末鑄鐵那這個球末是目前最理想的材質我想這個部分是很重要那我要強調是說廠商交貨的時候他交給台電只能是貴部勞動部經過這個勞動部TS認證\n194068\t195430\t陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿\n210137\t227957\t部長您可以看到抽了10樣幾樣不及格6樣不及格這非常嚴重這個深芳蒙玉這兩家產品不斷密封這個接頭圓形接線和油刃都被驗出有縮狀石墨縮狀石墨就是剛剛我談到的有含那幾個金屬\n228878\t247575\t他是會助燃的那另外你可以看到這個政賀的這個政賀公司這邊有那個廠商的名字政賀的圓形接線盒出現兩種鑄鐵一個是灰口鑄鐵一個是球狀石墨鑄鐵球狀石墨鑄鐵是ok的可是灰口鑄鐵他的求化率是零欸\n249002\t268933\t⋯⋯\n269133\t273136\t我要談的是勞動部負責TS認證那也有勞動部該負的責任就是說聽到這裡為止部長您覺得勞動部可以負起什麼樣責任因為畢竟TS認證是由貴部來進行的是謝謝委員委員在追尋這個問題的時候我就有注意這件事我們也請我們職安署那麼我們在10月1號我們有把樣本的那個材質\n298482\t314758\t出篩的報告含送給臺電要求他進一步送實驗室測試他的樣本材質那麼因為他疑似不當張貼啦他疑似不當張貼我們提的是安全標誌他不合格貼就是假的有這樣的問題那麼我們也在10月1號把他移送檢調查處\n320163\t347621\t我們現在主導移送檢調查處了我們也要求他10月8號 函給他們的廠商要在45天裡面提出材質符合的檢測報告 不准我的背景是藥學你知道食藥署在管理很多藥廠的時候他進了很多品質規範嘛從早期的GMP到後來是GMP到現在PIX GMP都希望能夠跟國際接軌這第一個那他這個品質規範的目的就是讓所有產品一致你不能說我去受驗的時候是最優質的\n348422\t367210\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n367410\t382879\t為什麼我覺得勞動部還是要負責任這個是機械設備器具形式檢定作業要點第12條第一項檢定機構受理申請後應為檢定並為必要之測試及生產技術品質一致性的查核\n383539\t399658\t就是跟藥品管理概念一樣就是你給了他認證許可證你後續還有一些查核的這個動作所以我們到底就是說第一個到底廠商當時拿了golden sample就是最優質的產品讓你去檢驗呢那事實上生產的時候是另外一件事情\n400279\t400319\t：陳昭姿\n423832\t431054\t平常的時候他就應該要有一個必要的測試就跟定一次以後不是就結束了對是我們是應該要我們會來檢討好嗎我請這個治安署部長對我還是希望說研究有一個因為事實上那個蒙玉的產品下一張他驗收的時候是有送金屬中心\n441578\t465196\t﹗\n465676\t488440\t我要談的是就是說8月6號的時候其實就發現產品不合格那事實上在2019年的話本黨的那個洪國昌委員他沒有提出一些在臺電廠裡面有使用不合格產品可是這個產品後來就說要去檢查要繼續去追查但是都沒有報告所以部長是不是說最後一張我想說有關貴部的新聞稿就是說那時候我們提出這麼重大的事件\n493041\t493461\t謝謝陳昭姿委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請何部長 何部長部長 針對大林電廠出現防爆電機管配件的弊案 我們在9月30日的時候有做出的記者會 我相信你們大概有一定程度的了解 因為後來你們也提出了一個新聞稿回應 那細節我不多說 但是我無法接受那個台電 他用了80億的\n﹗\n整個場區還有附近鄰居的安全當然更攸關工作人員的生命安全我先把這個背景讓部長了解一下那我相信部長知道在根據國家的CNS3376標準他講得非常清楚爆炸性的環境你使用的金屬的這個\n陳昭姿\n他的製造過程當中根據CNS14438標準他會加入這些金屬來提高他的求化率求化率高是好的這是基本的背景請看你讓部長繼續瞭解我們來看看這個防爆管這個配件的金屬材料要比什麼呢就是拉伸強度比一比大家可以看到這個圖最優秀的最好就是求墨鑄鐵但是他的標準是需要求化率\n外面的那個水溝那個道路上的水溝蓋就是回口注疊做的\n﹚台電當時的採購要求\n他這個要求是對的他要求可斷鑄鐵那可斷鑄鐵買不到了已經停產十幾年那鍍鑫鋼就是所謂的鋼鋼是可以用的甚至強度更好的這個球末鑄鐵那這個球末是目前最理想的材質我想這個部分是很重要那我要強調是說廠商交貨的時候他交給台電只能是貴部勞動部經過這個勞動部TS認證\n陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿\n部長您可以看到抽了10樣幾樣不及格6樣不及格這非常嚴重這個深芳蒙玉這兩家產品不斷密封這個接頭圓形接線和油刃都被驗出有縮狀石墨縮狀石墨就是剛剛我談到的有含那幾個金屬\n他是會助燃的那另外你可以看到這個政賀的這個政賀公司這邊有那個廠商的名字政賀的圓形接線盒出現兩種鑄鐵一個是灰口鑄鐵一個是球狀石墨鑄鐵球狀石墨鑄鐵是ok的可是灰口鑄鐵他的求化率是零欸\n⋯⋯\n我要談的是勞動部負責TS認證那也有勞動部該負的責任就是說聽到這裡為止部長您覺得勞動部可以負起什麼樣責任因為畢竟TS認證是由貴部來進行的是謝謝委員委員在追尋這個問題的時候我就有注意這件事我們也請我們職安署那麼我們在10月1號我們有把樣本的那個材質\n出篩的報告含送給臺電要求他進一步送實驗室測試他的樣本材質那麼因為他疑似不當張貼啦他疑似不當張貼我們提的是安全標誌他不合格貼就是假的有這樣的問題那麼我們也在10月1號把他移送檢調查處\n我們現在主導移送檢調查處了我們也要求他10月8號 函給他們的廠商要在45天裡面提出材質符合的檢測報告 不准我的背景是藥學你知道食藥署在管理很多藥廠的時候他進了很多品質規範嘛從早期的GMP到後來是GMP到現在PIX GMP都希望能夠跟國際接軌這第一個那他這個品質規範的目的就是讓所有產品一致你不能說我去受驗的時候是最優質的\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n為什麼我覺得勞動部還是要負責任這個是機械設備器具形式檢定作業要點第12條第一項檢定機構受理申請後應為檢定並為必要之測試及生產技術品質一致性的查核\n就是跟藥品管理概念一樣就是你給了他認證許可證你後續還有一些查核的這個動作所以我們到底就是說第一個到底廠商當時拿了golden sample就是最優質的產品讓你去檢驗呢那事實上生產的時候是另外一件事情\n：陳昭姿\n平常的時候他就應該要有一個必要的測試就跟定一次以後不是就結束了對是我們是應該要我們會來檢討好嗎我請這個治安署部長對我還是希望說研究有一個因為事實上那個蒙玉的產品下一張他驗收的時候是有送金屬中心\n﹗\n我要談的是就是說8月6號的時候其實就發現產品不合格那事實上在2019年的話本黨的那個洪國昌委員他沒有提出一些在臺電廠裡面有使用不合格產品可是這個產品後來就說要去檢查要繼續去追查但是都沒有報告所以部長是不是說最後一張我想說有關貴部的新聞稿就是說那時候我們提出這麼重大的事件\n謝謝陳昭姿委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.164 --> 00:07.407\n謝謝主席有請何部長何部長部長針對大林電廠出現防爆電機管配件的弊案我們在9月30日的時候有做出的記者會我相信你們大概有一定程度的了解因為後來你們也提出了一個新聞稿回應那細節我不多說但是我無法接受那個台電他用了80億的\n\n00:51.338 --> 01:08.785\n整個場區還有附近鄰居的安全當然更攸關工作人員的生命安全我先把這個背景讓部長了解一下那我相信部長知道在根據國家的CNS3376標準他講得非常清楚爆炸性的環境你使用的金屬的這個\n\n01:10.606 --> 01:10.646\n陳昭姿\n\n01:30.126 --> 01:55.743\n他的製造過程當中根據CNS14438標準他會加入這些金屬來提高他的求化率求化率高是好的這是基本的背景請看你讓部長繼續瞭解我們來看看這個防爆管這個配件的金屬材料要比什麼呢就是拉伸強度比一比大家可以看到這個圖最優秀的最好就是求墨鑄鐵但是他的標準是需要求化率\n\n01:56.383 --> 01:58.064\n外面的那個水溝那個道路上的水溝蓋就是回口注疊做的\n\n02:23.524 --> 02:23.664\n﹚台電當時的採購要求\n\n02:46.590 --> 03:10.246\n他這個要求是對的他要求可斷鑄鐵那可斷鑄鐵買不到了已經停產十幾年那鍍鑫鋼就是所謂的鋼鋼是可以用的甚至強度更好的這個球末鑄鐵那這個球末是目前最理想的材質我想這個部分是很重要那我要強調是說廠商交貨的時候他交給台電只能是貴部勞動部經過這個勞動部TS認證\n\n03:14.068 --> 03:15.430\n陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿陳昭姿\n\n03:30.137 --> 03:47.957\n部長您可以看到抽了10樣幾樣不及格6樣不及格這非常嚴重這個深芳蒙玉這兩家產品不斷密封這個接頭圓形接線和油刃都被驗出有縮狀石墨縮狀石墨就是剛剛我談到的有含那幾個金屬\n\n03:48.878 --> 04:07.575\n他是會助燃的那另外你可以看到這個政賀的這個政賀公司這邊有那個廠商的名字政賀的圓形接線盒出現兩種鑄鐵一個是灰口鑄鐵一個是球狀石墨鑄鐵球狀石墨鑄鐵是ok的可是灰口鑄鐵他的求化率是零欸\n\n04:29.133 --> 04:33.136\n我要談的是勞動部負責TS認證那也有勞動部該負的責任就是說聽到這裡為止部長您覺得勞動部可以負起什麼樣責任因為畢竟TS認證是由貴部來進行的是謝謝委員委員在追尋這個問題的時候我就有注意這件事我們也請我們職安署那麼我們在10月1號我們有把樣本的那個材質\n\n04:58.482 --> 05:14.758\n出篩的報告含送給臺電要求他進一步送實驗室測試他的樣本材質那麼因為他疑似不當張貼啦他疑似不當張貼我們提的是安全標誌他不合格貼就是假的有這樣的問題那麼我們也在10月1號把他移送檢調查處\n\n05:20.163 --> 05:47.621\n我們現在主導移送檢調查處了我們也要求他10月8號函給他們的廠商要在45天裡面提出材質符合的檢測報告不准我的背景是藥學你知道食藥署在管理很多藥廠的時候他進了很多品質規範嘛從早期的GMP到後來是GMP到現在PIXGMP都希望能夠跟國際接軌這第一個那他這個品質規範的目的就是讓所有產品一致你不能說我去受驗的時候是最優質的\n\n06:07.410 --> 06:22.879\n為什麼我覺得勞動部還是要負責任這個是機械設備器具形式檢定作業要點第12條第一項檢定機構受理申請後應為檢定並為必要之測試及生產技術品質一致性的查核\n\n06:23.539 --> 06:39.658\n就是跟藥品管理概念一樣就是你給了他認證許可證你後續還有一些查核的這個動作所以我們到底就是說第一個到底廠商當時拿了goldensample就是最優質的產品讓你去檢驗呢那事實上生產的時候是另外一件事情\n\n06:40.279 --> 06:40.319\n：陳昭姿\n\n07:03.832 --> 07:11.054\n平常的時候他就應該要有一個必要的測試就跟定一次以後不是就結束了對是我們是應該要我們會來檢討好嗎我請這個治安署部長對我還是希望說研究有一個因為事實上那個蒙玉的產品下一張他驗收的時候是有送金屬中心\n\n07:45.676 --> 08:08.440\n我要談的是就是說8月6號的時候其實就發現產品不合格那事實上在2019年的話本黨的那個洪國昌委員他沒有提出一些在臺電廠裡面有使用不合格產品可是這個產品後來就說要去檢查要繼續去追查但是都沒有報告所以部長是不是說最後一張我想說有關貴部的新聞稿就是說那時候我們提出這麼重大的事件\n\n08:13.041 --> 08:13.461\n謝謝陳昭姿委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.164,"end":7.407,"text":"謝謝主席 有請何部長 何部長部長 針對大林電廠出現防爆電機管配件的弊案 我們在9月30日的時候有做出的記者會 我相信你們大概有一定程度的了解 因為後來你們也提出了一個新聞稿回應 那細節我不多說 但是我無法接受那個台電 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09:23:25","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155494,"gazette":{"lineno":250,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時14分）謝謝主席，有請何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早。針對大林電廠出現防爆電氣管配件的弊案，你們在9月30日的時候有開記者會，我相信你們大概有一定程度的瞭解，因為後來你們也提出了一個新聞稿回應。細節我不多說，但是我無法接受台電用了80億改建工程，但是對於煤倉這種高危險、高風險的區域，什麼是高風險呢？就是可能產生塵爆或氣爆這種高風險區，竟然驗出了一大堆不合格的防爆電氣管配件，這件事情是很難令人諒解的。","這件事攸關整個廠區還有附近鄰居的安全，當然更攸關工作人員的生命安全。我先把這個背景讓部長瞭解一下，我相信部長知道，根據國家CNS3376標準，它講得非常清楚，爆炸性環境使用的金屬材質，包括鋁、鎂、鈦、鋯是有含量限制的，為什麼呢？因為這幾個金屬不但不能防爆，還有助燃作用，它本身會幫助燃燒，所以這是不能用於防爆設備的。另外有一種叫作縮狀石墨鑄鐵，根據CNS14438標準，它在製造過程當中會加入這些金屬來提高它的球化率，球化率高是好的，這是基本的背景，讓部長繼續瞭解。","我們來看看防爆管配件的金屬材料要比什麼呢？就是拉伸強度。大家可以看到這個圖，最優秀、最好的就是球墨鑄鐵，但是它的標準是需要球化率80%以上，這是最好的一個材質，它優於可鍛鑄鐵，但可鍛鑄鐵不知道是不是因為環境因素、環保因素，國際上停產大概超過10年，所以應該是買不到了。另外，它又更優於灰口鑄鐵，灰口鑄鐵是絕對不能用的，因為它的拉伸強度不夠，外面道路上的水溝蓋就是灰口鑄鐵做的，基本上它的拉伸強度是不行的，根本不能作為防爆管配件。另外還有一個剛剛我特別提到的縮墨鑄鐵，因為它含了鎂、鈦、鋯這幾個金屬，這幾個金屬會幫助燃燒，所以也不能用。部長這樣一看大概就知道剩下什麼可以使用。","我們來看看台電當時的採購要求，這個要求是對的，它要求可鍛鑄鐵，但是可鍛鑄鐵買不到了，已經停產十幾年，鍍鋅鋼就是所謂的鋼，鋼是可以用的，甚至強度更好的球墨鑄鐵，球墨鑄鐵是目前最理想的材質，這個部分是很重要的。我要強調的是，廠商交貨給台電的時候，只能是經過貴部（勞動部）TS認證，要經過貴部認證的，可鍛鑄鐵、球墨鑄鐵或是鋼都要經過勞動部認證，這樣關係就開始進來了。","本席簡報上是今年8月6日職安署到台電大林電廠抽查的結果，部長，你可以看到抽了10樣，幾樣不及格？6樣不及格，這非常嚴重。申芳、盟諭這兩家的產品密封接頭、圓型接線盒、由任都被驗出有縮狀石墨，縮狀石墨就是剛剛我談到的有含那幾個金屬，它是會助燃的。另外，你可以看到正鶴公司的圓型接線盒出現兩種鑄鐵，一個是灰口鑄鐵、一個是球狀石墨鑄鐵，球狀石墨鑄鐵是OK的，可是灰口鑄鐵的球化率是零，灰口鑄鐵就是外面水溝蓋的那種材質，它同時出現了，就是有真品和假冒品放在裡面。所以我當然無法理解台電當初怎麼驗收，誰把這些東西賣給台電，然後讓台電去裝在上面。台電有台電的責任，這個部分當然不是勞動部的責任，但是我要談的是勞動部負責TS認證，也有勞動部該負的責任。聽到這裡為止，不曉得部長覺得勞動部可以負起什麼樣的責任？畢竟TS認證是由貴部來進行的。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝委員，委員在垂詢這個問題的時候，我就有注意這件事，我們也請職安署在10月1日把樣本材質初篩的報告函送給台電，要求它進一步送實驗室測試它的樣本材質，因為它疑似不當張貼TS安全標準……"],["陳委員昭姿：就是假的！不合格卻貼了，就是假的！"],["何部長佩珊：有這樣的問題……"],["陳委員昭姿：很嚴重啊！"],["何部長佩珊：我們在10月1日移送檢調查處，目前已經主動移送檢調查處了。我們也在10月8日要求他函給他們的廠商，要在45天裡提出材質符合的檢測報告。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我的背景是藥學，我知道食藥署在管理很多藥廠時定了很多品質規範，從早期的GMP到後來的cGMP，到現在的PIC/S GMP，都是希望能跟國際接軌，這是第一個。這些品質規範的目的就是讓所有產品一致，不能受驗時是最優質的，但最後製造的卻是另外一回事！也就是說，品質的一致性是非常高的。對於有問題的廠商，不但平常就要進行定期查核，而且還要做不預警的，甚至是機動性的檢查，因為已經有前科等等之類的。","部長，我讓你看一條法條，為什麼我覺得勞動部還是要負責任？這是機械設備器具型式檢定作業要點第十二條第一項：「檢定機構受理申請後，應為檢定，並為必要之測試及生產技術品質一致性查核」。跟藥品管理概念一樣，你給了他認證、許可證，後續還是要有查核動作。廠商當時拿了golden sample，就是最優質的產品去檢驗，但實際上生產時卻是另外一件事，或者當時的型式檢定機構沒有好好做測試，以致後續的生產品質沒有一致性。部長，不管哪一個狀況，反正問題就是很嚴重，您覺得勞動部可以怎麼樣來改善？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們來強化型式檢定作業，在平常就應該要有必要的測試……"],["陳委員昭姿：不是認定一次後就結束了！"],["何部長佩珊：對。我們會來檢討，好嗎？我請職安署密切檢討。"],["陳委員昭姿：盟諭的產品在驗收時有送金屬中心，但事實上裝在廠房的產品是不合格的！職安署這次去抽查……其實這是很久以前的事，在2012年就啟動工程的更新改建，而職安署是在今年8月6日去抽查，為什麼還會發現有不合格的產品在裡面？所以勞動部一定要想辦法避免這樣的事發生。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["陳委員昭姿：我要談的是，8月6日就發現產品不合格，其實早在2019年，本黨黃國昌委員就提出台電有使用不合格產品的事，後來雖然有說要檢查這個產品，要繼續追查，但都沒有報告。那時候我們提出這麼重大的事件，但貴部的新聞稿不要只說檢驗單位不對、廠商不對、台電不對，就你們能做的部分、勞動部該做的部分就要自己承擔起來。"],["何部長佩珊：是、是，好，我們一定會負我們該負的責任。"],["陳委員昭姿：不要讓我們覺得是在推託。"],["何部長佩珊：是，不會推託。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝部長。"],["何部長佩珊：我會來要求職安署，謝謝。"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：謝謝陳昭姿委員的發言，謝謝何部長。","下一位我們請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}}