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\"言\", \"start\": 583.548, \"end\": 583.568, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,824 --> 00:00:11,326\n有請我們何部長有請何部長部長早到2025年也就明年我們國家發展委員會預估我們已經要進入到超高齡社會再加上我們今年上半年度生的孩子大概只有6萬3876位\n\n2\n00:00:36,584 --> 00:00:36,704\n是當然\n\n3\n00:00:56,473 --> 00:01:13,119\n呃所以因爲少子化日益嚴重問題行政院推出了少子化的對策計畫在部會分工裏邊勞動部的任務就是有研議彈性條件跟提供性評價的一個薪資補助還有呢持續推動企業\n\n4\n00:01:14,739 --> 00:01:15,139\n提出的議題\n\n5\n00:01:42,386 --> 00:01:42,567\n李慧琴\n\n6\n00:01:53,055 --> 00:02:17,788\n是感謝委員關心那個企業托育的部分那我們勞動部是配合衛福部這協助企業來設置相關的托兒設施比如說設幼兒園啦托嬰中心勞動部會給予補助那也跟委員報告一下這個113年我們補助的不管是設立那個托兒設施措施或者是提供托兒津貼都是一個\n\n7\n00:02:18,268 --> 00:02:18,528\n市委員會議\n\n8\n00:02:34,889 --> 00:02:35,889\n獲得新公法提供\n\n9\n00:02:52,065 --> 00:03:03,458\n那我剛才也問說有沒有發生所謂的勞資糾紛甚至受評估的時間有多長人員平均他托兒幼兒園的勞資糾紛我們這邊沒有相關的統計資料\n\n10\n00:03:10,066 --> 00:03:39,080\n我們這邊倒是可是這事實上是因為也是你們再少子話對這裡邊你們承擔該承擔的應該要充分掌握啦是因為服務提供者是人嘛多年因為私立幼兒園的教保人員勞動條件一直是沒有辦法擺脫低薪苛刻跟不當管理所引發的社會問題這是我覺得這是勞動部應該承擔因為既然事實上你們也是對這其中的一個部會裡邊要去承擔的那\n\n11\n00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:41,822\n委員補充報告我們最近3年有針對學前教育業實施勞動條件檢查1170加次有108加次有違法\n\n12\n00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:22,412\n那麼有罰款的274萬所以我們先來看今年3月齁全國教保產業工會針對公部幼教人員的新生調查裡邊結果顯示58%要從事照顧之外的不列入工時的一個工作而且他們2020年就有調查今年我還等他們新的報告可是我們看到2020年調查的話私立幼兒園在工時上\n\n13\n00:04:23,773 --> 00:04:30,277\n9.3小時沒有包含補修代工時間43.7%工作超時10小時50%未領取加班費或補修32.6%的教保人員的勞保是被高薪低報的所以要問我覺得我一直在提醒勞動部這也是我上個會期就有質詢的一個課題這事實上是一個血汗的職場\n\n14\n00:04:47,668 --> 00:04:47,768\n委員報告．\n\n15\n00:05:06,024 --> 00:05:08,866\n有就是在從這幾年都有在做對然後這個我們也希望因為幼兒園他又牽涉到教育部當然當然\n\n16\n00:05:23,418 --> 00:05:23,739\n大專院校\n\n17\n00:05:46,055 --> 00:06:05,869\n大概43所的院校裡面有120個幼保科系那每年大概有4200位的教保員因為我過去也在幼保系任教那幾乎很多時候我們的療動條件不好很多我的學生大概畢業後都去哪裡去新加坡因為五六萬的薪水跟臺灣事實上是很難相比加上我剛剛講那種療動條件這麼差的話那\n\n18\n00:06:40,004 --> 00:07:07,907\n委員這樣好嗎因為其實這件事我們應該要跟教育部一起來共同面對因為他是一個幼教育這個幼兒產業他的一個經營形態會不會就是說這個可能也牽涉到這個部分還有包括我們在幼兒園的這樣子的可是部長如果你沒有去查勞動條件很不良的話就持續這人員就是流失如果我去新加坡可以五六萬的薪水的話我帶台灣三四萬然後我要工時\n\n19\n00:07:08,747 --> 00:07:08,887\n午休待工時間\n\n20\n00:07:28,527 --> 00:07:28,727\n委員會主席\n\n21\n00:07:55,427 --> 00:08:00,672\n在一個月內也有全國性的一致的司法性的認定不知道部長這邊同意嗎\n\n22\n00:08:02,813 --> 00:08:28,130\n我們可以來做處理我們來對我們先我們來一人一來來處理好嗎是那再來就是照顧比應該是一個法定的工作量這也是我上個會期一直在講說我就是只能照顧15個孩子可是我照顧到22個孩子這是幼教現場請你們勞動檢查的時候希望能夠去做這件事情可是始終都一直跟我講說這是教育部的事情可是教育部又不做勞動檢查所以我認為本席認為說\n\n23\n00:08:31,272 --> 00:08:58,017\n是不是你要跟教育部溝通還是事實上是你應該去承擔你畢竟事實上是我們的勞工者的最高的主管機關是不是應該要來做這件事情我們跟委員報告照顧比這是教育不定的啦因為他會基於他的這個幼兒的這樣的照顧需求那是不是應該那他這就是法定的一個工作量可是你們到了現場呢照顧22個你們大概也就漠然也就接受\n\n24\n00:09:15,246 --> 00:09:37,503\n未來是不是應該要查核那因為我時間有限所以是不是公佈也能夠公佈教保幼教人員的的勞動契約範本來讓他們知道一般約定事項甚至特殊約定事項禁止事項救濟管道是什麼可以定在這邊那所以這4點希望午休的代工時間應列為連續的工作時間剛剛部長已經答應那師生筆也請你們\n\n25\n00:09:42,987 --> 00:09:43,568\n林月琴委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7824\t11326\t有請我們何部長有請何部長部長早到2025年也就明年我們國家發展委員會預估我們已經要進入到超高齡社會再加上我們今年上半年度生的孩子大概只有6萬3876位\n36584\t36704\t是當然\n56473\t73119\t呃所以因爲少子化日益嚴重問題行政院推出了少子化的對策計畫在部會分工裏邊勞動部的任務就是有研議彈性條件跟提供性評價的一個薪資補助還有呢持續推動企業\n74739\t75139\t提出的議題\n102386\t102567\t李慧琴\n113055\t137788\t是感謝委員關心那個企業托育的部分那我們勞動部是配合衛福部這協助企業來設置相關的托兒設施比如說設幼兒園啦托嬰中心勞動部會給予補助那也跟委員報告一下這個113年我們補助的不管是設立那個托兒設施措施或者是提供托兒津貼都是一個\n138268\t138528\t市委員會議\n154889\t155889\t獲得新公法提供\n172065\t183458\t那我剛才也問說有沒有發生所謂的勞資糾紛甚至受評估的時間有多長人員平均他托兒幼兒園的勞資糾紛我們這邊沒有相關的統計資料\n190066\t219080\t我們這邊倒是可是這事實上是因為也是你們再少子話對這裡邊你們承擔該承擔的應該要充分掌握啦是因為服務提供者是人嘛多年因為私立幼兒園的教保人員勞動條件一直是沒有辦法擺脫低薪苛刻跟不當管理所引發的社會問題這是我覺得這是勞動部應該承擔因為既然事實上你們也是對這其中的一個部會裡邊要去承擔的那\n220640\t221822\t委員補充報告我們最近3年有針對學前教育業實施勞動條件檢查1170加次有108加次有違法\n235760\t262412\t那麼有罰款的274萬所以我們先來看今年3月齁全國教保產業工會針對公部幼教人員的新生調查裡邊結果顯示58%要從事照顧之外的不列入工時的一個工作而且他們2020年就有調查今年我還等他們新的報告可是我們看到2020年調查的話私立幼兒園在工時上\n263773\t270277\t9.3小時沒有包含補修代工時間 43.7%工作超時10小時50%未領取加班費或補修32.6%的教保人員的勞保是被高薪低報的所以要問我覺得我一直在提醒勞動部這也是我上個會期就有質詢的一個課題這事實上是一個血汗的職場\n287668\t287768\t委員報告．\n306024\t308866\t有就是在從這幾年都有在做對然後這個我們也希望因為幼兒園他又牽涉到教育部當然當然\n323418\t323739\t大專院校\n346055\t365869\t大概43所的院校裡面有120個幼保科系那每年大概有4200位的教保員因為我過去也在幼保系任教那幾乎很多時候我們的療動條件不好很多我的學生大概畢業後都去哪裡去新加坡因為五六萬的薪水跟臺灣事實上是很難相比加上我剛剛講那種療動條件這麼差的話那\n369411\t399343\t﹗\n400004\t427907\t委員這樣好嗎因為其實這件事我們應該要跟教育部一起來共同面對因為他是一個幼教育這個幼兒產業他的一個經營形態會不會就是說這個可能也牽涉到這個部分還有包括我們在幼兒園的這樣子的可是部長如果你沒有去查勞動條件很不良的話就持續這人員就是流失如果我去新加坡可以五六萬的薪水的話我帶台灣三四萬然後我要工時\n428747\t428887\t午休待工時間\n448527\t448727\t委員會主席\n475427\t480672\t在一個月內也有全國性的一致的司法性的認定不知道部長這邊同意嗎\n482813\t508130\t我們可以來做處理我們來對我們先我們來一人一來來處理好嗎是那再來就是照顧比應該是一個法定的工作量這也是我上個會期一直在講說我就是只能照顧15個孩子可是我照顧到22個孩子這是幼教現場請你們勞動檢查的時候希望能夠去做這件事情可是始終都一直跟我講說這是教育部的事情可是教育部又不做勞動檢查所以我認為本席認為說\n511272\t538017\t是不是你要跟教育部溝通還是事實上是你應該去承擔你畢竟事實上是我們的勞工者的最高的主管機關是不是應該要來做這件事情我們跟委員報告照顧比這是教育不定的啦因為他會基於他的這個幼兒的這樣的照顧需求那是不是應該那他這就是法定的一個工作量可是你們到了現場呢照顧22個你們大概也就漠然也就接受\n538217\t555026\t﹗\n555246\t577503\t未來是不是應該要查核那因為我時間有限所以是不是公佈也能夠公佈教保幼教人員的的勞動契約範本來讓他們知道一般約定事項甚至特殊約定事項禁止事項救濟管道是什麼可以定在這邊那所以這4點希望午休的代工時間應列為連續的工作時間剛剛部長已經答應那師生筆也請你們\n582987\t583568\t林月琴委員發言\n","txt":"有請我們何部長有請何部長部長早到2025年也就明年我們國家發展委員會預估我們已經要進入到超高齡社會再加上我們今年上半年度生的孩子大概只有6萬3876位\n是當然\n呃所以因爲少子化日益嚴重問題行政院推出了少子化的對策計畫在部會分工裏邊勞動部的任務就是有研議彈性條件跟提供性評價的一個薪資補助還有呢持續推動企業\n提出的議題\n李慧琴\n是感謝委員關心那個企業托育的部分那我們勞動部是配合衛福部這協助企業來設置相關的托兒設施比如說設幼兒園啦托嬰中心勞動部會給予補助那也跟委員報告一下這個113年我們補助的不管是設立那個托兒設施措施或者是提供托兒津貼都是一個\n市委員會議\n獲得新公法提供\n那我剛才也問說有沒有發生所謂的勞資糾紛甚至受評估的時間有多長人員平均他托兒幼兒園的勞資糾紛我們這邊沒有相關的統計資料\n我們這邊倒是可是這事實上是因為也是你們再少子話對這裡邊你們承擔該承擔的應該要充分掌握啦是因為服務提供者是人嘛多年因為私立幼兒園的教保人員勞動條件一直是沒有辦法擺脫低薪苛刻跟不當管理所引發的社會問題這是我覺得這是勞動部應該承擔因為既然事實上你們也是對這其中的一個部會裡邊要去承擔的那\n委員補充報告我們最近3年有針對學前教育業實施勞動條件檢查1170加次有108加次有違法\n那麼有罰款的274萬所以我們先來看今年3月齁全國教保產業工會針對公部幼教人員的新生調查裡邊結果顯示58%要從事照顧之外的不列入工時的一個工作而且他們2020年就有調查今年我還等他們新的報告可是我們看到2020年調查的話私立幼兒園在工時上\n9.3小時沒有包含補修代工時間 43.7%工作超時10小時50%未領取加班費或補修32.6%的教保人員的勞保是被高薪低報的所以要問我覺得我一直在提醒勞動部這也是我上個會期就有質詢的一個課題這事實上是一個血汗的職場\n委員報告．\n有就是在從這幾年都有在做對然後這個我們也希望因為幼兒園他又牽涉到教育部當然當然\n大專院校\n大概43所的院校裡面有120個幼保科系那每年大概有4200位的教保員因為我過去也在幼保系任教那幾乎很多時候我們的療動條件不好很多我的學生大概畢業後都去哪裡去新加坡因為五六萬的薪水跟臺灣事實上是很難相比加上我剛剛講那種療動條件這麼差的話那\n﹗\n委員這樣好嗎因為其實這件事我們應該要跟教育部一起來共同面對因為他是一個幼教育這個幼兒產業他的一個經營形態會不會就是說這個可能也牽涉到這個部分還有包括我們在幼兒園的這樣子的可是部長如果你沒有去查勞動條件很不良的話就持續這人員就是流失如果我去新加坡可以五六萬的薪水的話我帶台灣三四萬然後我要工時\n午休待工時間\n委員會主席\n在一個月內也有全國性的一致的司法性的認定不知道部長這邊同意嗎\n我們可以來做處理我們來對我們先我們來一人一來來處理好嗎是那再來就是照顧比應該是一個法定的工作量這也是我上個會期一直在講說我就是只能照顧15個孩子可是我照顧到22個孩子這是幼教現場請你們勞動檢查的時候希望能夠去做這件事情可是始終都一直跟我講說這是教育部的事情可是教育部又不做勞動檢查所以我認為本席認為說\n是不是你要跟教育部溝通還是事實上是你應該去承擔你畢竟事實上是我們的勞工者的最高的主管機關是不是應該要來做這件事情我們跟委員報告照顧比這是教育不定的啦因為他會基於他的這個幼兒的這樣的照顧需求那是不是應該那他這就是法定的一個工作量可是你們到了現場呢照顧22個你們大概也就漠然也就接受\n﹗\n未來是不是應該要查核那因為我時間有限所以是不是公佈也能夠公佈教保幼教人員的的勞動契約範本來讓他們知道一般約定事項甚至特殊約定事項禁止事項救濟管道是什麼可以定在這邊那所以這4點希望午休的代工時間應列為連續的工作時間剛剛部長已經答應那師生筆也請你們\n林月琴委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.824 --> 00:11.326\n有請我們何部長有請何部長部長早到2025年也就明年我們國家發展委員會預估我們已經要進入到超高齡社會再加上我們今年上半年度生的孩子大概只有6萬3876位\n\n00:36.584 --> 00:36.704\n是當然\n\n00:56.473 --> 01:13.119\n呃所以因爲少子化日益嚴重問題行政院推出了少子化的對策計畫在部會分工裏邊勞動部的任務就是有研議彈性條件跟提供性評價的一個薪資補助還有呢持續推動企業\n\n01:14.739 --> 01:15.139\n提出的議題\n\n01:42.386 --> 01:42.567\n李慧琴\n\n01:53.055 --> 02:17.788\n是感謝委員關心那個企業托育的部分那我們勞動部是配合衛福部這協助企業來設置相關的托兒設施比如說設幼兒園啦托嬰中心勞動部會給予補助那也跟委員報告一下這個113年我們補助的不管是設立那個托兒設施措施或者是提供托兒津貼都是一個\n\n02:18.268 --> 02:18.528\n市委員會議\n\n02:34.889 --> 02:35.889\n獲得新公法提供\n\n02:52.065 --> 03:03.458\n那我剛才也問說有沒有發生所謂的勞資糾紛甚至受評估的時間有多長人員平均他托兒幼兒園的勞資糾紛我們這邊沒有相關的統計資料\n\n03:10.066 --> 03:39.080\n我們這邊倒是可是這事實上是因為也是你們再少子話對這裡邊你們承擔該承擔的應該要充分掌握啦是因為服務提供者是人嘛多年因為私立幼兒園的教保人員勞動條件一直是沒有辦法擺脫低薪苛刻跟不當管理所引發的社會問題這是我覺得這是勞動部應該承擔因為既然事實上你們也是對這其中的一個部會裡邊要去承擔的那\n\n03:40.640 --> 03:41.822\n委員補充報告我們最近3年有針對學前教育業實施勞動條件檢查1170加次有108加次有違法\n\n03:55.760 --> 04:22.412\n那麼有罰款的274萬所以我們先來看今年3月齁全國教保產業工會針對公部幼教人員的新生調查裡邊結果顯示58%要從事照顧之外的不列入工時的一個工作而且他們2020年就有調查今年我還等他們新的報告可是我們看到2020年調查的話私立幼兒園在工時上\n\n04:23.773 --> 04:30.277\n9.3小時沒有包含補修代工時間43.7%工作超時10小時50%未領取加班費或補修32.6%的教保人員的勞保是被高薪低報的所以要問我覺得我一直在提醒勞動部這也是我上個會期就有質詢的一個課題這事實上是一個血汗的職場\n\n04:47.668 --> 04:47.768\n委員報告．\n\n05:06.024 --> 05:08.866\n有就是在從這幾年都有在做對然後這個我們也希望因為幼兒園他又牽涉到教育部當然當然\n\n05:23.418 --> 05:23.739\n大專院校\n\n05:46.055 --> 06:05.869\n大概43所的院校裡面有120個幼保科系那每年大概有4200位的教保員因為我過去也在幼保系任教那幾乎很多時候我們的療動條件不好很多我的學生大概畢業後都去哪裡去新加坡因為五六萬的薪水跟臺灣事實上是很難相比加上我剛剛講那種療動條件這麼差的話那\n\n06:40.004 --> 07:07.907\n委員這樣好嗎因為其實這件事我們應該要跟教育部一起來共同面對因為他是一個幼教育這個幼兒產業他的一個經營形態會不會就是說這個可能也牽涉到這個部分還有包括我們在幼兒園的這樣子的可是部長如果你沒有去查勞動條件很不良的話就持續這人員就是流失如果我去新加坡可以五六萬的薪水的話我帶台灣三四萬然後我要工時\n\n07:08.747 --> 07:08.887\n午休待工時間\n\n07:28.527 --> 07:28.727\n委員會主席\n\n07:55.427 --> 08:00.672\n在一個月內也有全國性的一致的司法性的認定不知道部長這邊同意嗎\n\n08:02.813 --> 08:28.130\n我們可以來做處理我們來對我們先我們來一人一來來處理好嗎是那再來就是照顧比應該是一個法定的工作量這也是我上個會期一直在講說我就是只能照顧15個孩子可是我照顧到22個孩子這是幼教現場請你們勞動檢查的時候希望能夠去做這件事情可是始終都一直跟我講說這是教育部的事情可是教育部又不做勞動檢查所以我認為本席認為說\n\n08:31.272 --> 08:58.017\n是不是你要跟教育部溝通還是事實上是你應該去承擔你畢竟事實上是我們的勞工者的最高的主管機關是不是應該要來做這件事情我們跟委員報告照顧比這是教育不定的啦因為他會基於他的這個幼兒的這樣的照顧需求那是不是應該那他這就是法定的一個工作量可是你們到了現場呢照顧22個你們大概也就漠然也就接受\n\n09:15.246 --> 09:37.503\n未來是不是應該要查核那因為我時間有限所以是不是公佈也能夠公佈教保幼教人員的的勞動契約範本來讓他們知道一般約定事項甚至特殊約定事項禁止事項救濟管道是什麼可以定在這邊那所以這4點希望午休的代工時間應列為連續的工作時間剛剛部長已經答應那師生筆也請你們\n\n09:42.987 --> 09:43.568\n林月琴委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.824,"end":11.326,"text":"有請我們何部長有請何部長部長早到2025年也就明年我們國家發展委員會預估我們已經要進入到超高齡社會再加上我們今年上半年度生的孩子大概只有6萬3876位"},{"start":36.584,"end":36.704,"text":"是當然"},{"start":56.473,"end":73.119,"text":"呃所以因爲少子化日益嚴重問題行政院推出了少子化的對策計畫在部會分工裏邊勞動部的任務就是有研議彈性條件跟提供性評價的一個薪資補助還有呢持續推動企業"},{"start":74.739,"end":75.139,"text":"提出的議題"},{"start":102.386,"end":102.567,"text":"李慧琴"},{"start":113.055,"end":137.788,"text":"是感謝委員關心那個企業托育的部分那我們勞動部是配合衛福部這協助企業來設置相關的托兒設施比如說設幼兒園啦托嬰中心勞動部會給予補助那也跟委員報告一下這個113年我們補助的不管是設立那個托兒設施措施或者是提供托兒津貼都是一個"},{"start":138.268,"end":138.528,"text":"市委員會議"},{"start":154.889,"end":155.889,"text":"獲得新公法提供"},{"start":172.065,"end":183.458,"text":"那我剛才也問說有沒有發生所謂的勞資糾紛甚至受評估的時間有多長人員平均他托兒幼兒園的勞資糾紛我們這邊沒有相關的統計資料"},{"start":190.066,"end":219.08,"text":"我們這邊倒是可是這事實上是因為也是你們再少子話對這裡邊你們承擔該承擔的應該要充分掌握啦是因為服務提供者是人嘛多年因為私立幼兒園的教保人員勞動條件一直是沒有辦法擺脫低薪苛刻跟不當管理所引發的社會問題這是我覺得這是勞動部應該承擔因為既然事實上你們也是對這其中的一個部會裡邊要去承擔的那"},{"start":220.64,"end":221.822,"text":"委員補充報告我們最近3年有針對學前教育業實施勞動條件檢查1170加次有108加次有違法"},{"start":235.76,"end":262.412,"text":"那麼有罰款的274萬所以我們先來看今年3月齁全國教保產業工會針對公部幼教人員的新生調查裡邊結果顯示58%要從事照顧之外的不列入工時的一個工作而且他們2020年就有調查今年我還等他們新的報告可是我們看到2020年調查的話私立幼兒園在工時上"},{"start":263.773,"end":270.277,"text":"9.3小時沒有包含補修代工時間 43.7%工作超時10小時50%未領取加班費或補修32.6%的教保人員的勞保是被高薪低報的所以要問我覺得我一直在提醒勞動部這也是我上個會期就有質詢的一個課題這事實上是一個血汗的職場"},{"start":287.668,"end":287.768,"text":"委員報告．"},{"start":306.024,"end":308.866,"text":"有就是在從這幾年都有在做對然後這個我們也希望因為幼兒園他又牽涉到教育部當然當然"},{"start":323.418,"end":323.739,"text":"大專院校"},{"start":346.055,"end":365.869,"text":"大概43所的院校裡面有120個幼保科系那每年大概有4200位的教保員因為我過去也在幼保系任教那幾乎很多時候我們的療動條件不好很多我的學生大概畢業後都去哪裡去新加坡因為五六萬的薪水跟臺灣事實上是很難相比加上我剛剛講那種療動條件這麼差的話那"},{"start":369.411,"end":399.343,"text":"﹗"},{"start":400.004,"end":427.907,"text":"委員這樣好嗎因為其實這件事我們應該要跟教育部一起來共同面對因為他是一個幼教育這個幼兒產業他的一個經營形態會不會就是說這個可能也牽涉到這個部分還有包括我們在幼兒園的這樣子的可是部長如果你沒有去查勞動條件很不良的話就持續這人員就是流失如果我去新加坡可以五六萬的薪水的話我帶台灣三四萬然後我要工時"},{"start":428.747,"end":428.887,"text":"午休待工時間"},{"start":448.527,"end":448.727,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":475.427,"end":480.672,"text":"在一個月內也有全國性的一致的司法性的認定不知道部長這邊同意嗎"},{"start":482.813,"end":508.13,"text":"我們可以來做處理我們來對我們先我們來一人一來來處理好嗎是那再來就是照顧比應該是一個法定的工作量這也是我上個會期一直在講說我就是只能照顧15個孩子可是我照顧到22個孩子這是幼教現場請你們勞動檢查的時候希望能夠去做這件事情可是始終都一直跟我講說這是教育部的事情可是教育部又不做勞動檢查所以我認為本席認為說"},{"start":511.272,"end":538.017,"text":"是不是你要跟教育部溝通還是事實上是你應該去承擔你畢竟事實上是我們的勞工者的最高的主管機關是不是應該要來做這件事情我們跟委員報告照顧比這是教育不定的啦因為他會基於他的這個幼兒的這樣的照顧需求那是不是應該那他這就是法定的一個工作量可是你們到了現場呢照顧22個你們大概也就漠然也就接受"},{"start":538.217,"end":555.026,"text":"﹗"},{"start":555.246,"end":577.503,"text":"未來是不是應該要查核那因為我時間有限所以是不是公佈也能夠公佈教保幼教人員的的勞動契約範本來讓他們知道一般約定事項甚至特殊約定事項禁止事項救濟管道是什麼可以定在這邊那所以這4點希望午休的代工時間應列為連續的工作時間剛剛部長已經答應那師生筆也請你們"},{"start":582.987,"end":583.568,"text":"林月琴委員發言"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:23:32 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09:33:36","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155496,"gazette":{"lineno":278,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時23分）有請我們何部長。"],["主席：有請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。到了2025年，也就是明年，國家發展委員會預估我們已經要進入超高齡社會，而我們今年上半年度出生的孩子大概只有6萬3,876位。今年雖是龍年，但預期將低於去年。過去龍年是生得比較多的，不過相對於今年，事實上是生得比較少。既然生得少，就要照顧好，珍惜每一個孩子，這也是大家要一起維護的觀念。"],["何部長佩珊：是，當然。"],["林委員月琴：為因應少子化日益嚴重的問題，行政院推出了少子化對策計畫，在部會分工裡，勞動部的任務為研議彈性條件，提供性平假的薪資補助，並持續推動企業主布建托育設施。這些資訊勞動部應該要公開吧？所以想請問，從110年到現在，經由企業設立的社區公共托育家園與職場互助教保服務中心各有幾家？與私立幼兒園跨業合作的有幾家？在這些新設的幼托單位裡，人員發生勞資糾紛的狀態有幾件？人員平均受僱的期間有多久？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，因為牽涉到數據，我可以請同仁回答嗎？"],["林委員月琴：可以，沒問題。"],["謝司長倩蒨：感謝委員關心企業托育問題。勞動部配合衛福部協助企業設置相關托兒設施，譬如設幼兒園、托嬰中心，勞動部會給予補助。也跟委員報告，113年我們補助的，不管是設立托兒設施、措施或提供托兒津貼，都屬於友善職場的措施……"],["林委員月琴：我請你們回答的是到底有多少家？"],["謝司長倩蒨：我們補助了445家企業設立或提供相關托兒設施……"],["林委員月琴：我剛剛講有社區公共托育家園、職場互助教保，還有只跟幼兒園簽約的，這是不同的。"],["謝司長倩蒨：對。這部分都是性工法規定企業提供的，因為要依照企業員工的需求，看要用什麼樣的方式提供給員工相關措施。"],["林委員月琴：我剛才問有沒有發生所謂的勞資糾紛，以及受聘僱的時間有多長？人員平均。"],["謝司長倩蒨：幼兒園的勞資糾紛我們這邊沒有相關統計資料。"],["何部長佩珊：我們這邊倒是……"],["林委員月琴：這也是少子化對策計畫中你們所應該承擔的，應該要充分掌握。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["林委員月琴：服務提供者是人，而多年來私立幼兒園教保人員的勞動條件一直沒有辦法擺脫低薪、苛刻跟不當管理，從而引發社會問題，我覺得這是勞動部應該承擔的。你們是對策計畫中要承擔的一個部會，而這就是幼教人員的狀況！"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員補充報告，我們最近三年針對學前教育業實施勞動條件檢查1,170家次，有108家次違法，罰鍰有274萬。"],["林委員月琴：今年3月全國教保產業工會公布對幼教人員勞動條件的調查結果，顯示有58%要從事照顧之外不列入工時的工作。他們從2020年開始就有調查，今年我還在等他們新的報告。以2020年的調查來說，私立幼兒園的工時為9.3小時，這不包含午休待工時間，其中有43.7%工作超過10小時；有50%未領取加班費或補休；32.6%的教保人員勞保被高薪低報。我一直在提醒勞動部，這也是我上會期就質詢的課題，事實上，這是一個血汗職場，而我們的孩子又要靠他們照顧，但最後卻可能因為血汗而對孩子有不當對待的情事發生。在上會期質詢之後，不知道勞動部有沒有提出因應策略？"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，我們有辦理幼兒園勞動條件專案檢查，而且這幾年都有在做。我們也希望……因為幼兒園又牽涉到教育部，它其實……"],["林委員月琴：勞動檢查是你們要做的，教育部不做這個。"],["何部長佩珊：當然、當然。剛剛就跟委員報告過，其實已經有執行。"],["林委員月琴：現在教保人員總共有6萬人，卻要照顧57萬的2到6歲孩子，且平均年齡以35到44歲者占大筆來照顧孩子。目前大專院校中有43所院校、120個幼保科系，每年大概有4,200位的教保員。過去我也在幼保系任教，很多時候我們的勞動條件不好，所以我很多學生畢業後大概都去哪裡去？新加坡！因為五、六萬的薪水臺灣很難相比，加上剛剛講的勞動條件這麼差，甚至只有「血汗」兩個字可形容，所以缺工狀態勢必存在。想請問一下，就統計趨勢來說，幼教機構數一直在上升，可是教保人員的留職率事實上是在下降的，缺工的問題越來越嚴重，但勞動部又不可能去保證……推動企託是需要這些人力的，那你又要推動，然後現在人力又不足，請問勞動部怎麼去因應？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，這樣好嗎？其實這件事我們應該要跟教育部一起來共同面對啦，因為它是一個幼兒教育產業，它的經營型態會不會……就是說這個可能也牽涉到這個部分，還有包括我們在幼兒園這樣子的……"],["林委員月琴：可是部長，如果你沒有去查，勞動條件很不良的話，人員就是會持續流失，如果我去新加坡可以領到五、六萬薪水的話，我待在臺灣只有三、四萬，然後我的工時又這麼長，而且58%是在做我工作以外的事情，這麼多，甚至有些東西可能還要帶回家，這不會是一個良善的……"],["何部長佩珊：我們要來注意。"],["林委員月琴：這個問題上次我就有質詢過，當時是針對於他們午休待工的時間應該被認定是工作時間。針對午休工作待工的問題，桃園市政府已經先開始做了，他們在2022年就自行做連續工作時間適法性的認定，所以該時間應該要列入工時，因為他們根本沒辦法午休嘛，小孩子在睡覺，可是我也沒辦法午休啊，成為教保人員來領取更多工資及加班費的依據，我不知道這個可不可以在一個月內也有全國性一致的適法性認定？不知道部長這邊同意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我們可以來做處理，我們願意來處理，好嗎？"],["林委員月琴：再來就是照顧比應該是一個法定的工作量，這也是我上個會期一直在講的，我就是只能照顧15個孩子，可是我必須照顧到22個孩子，這是幼教現場的情況，我希望你們在勞動檢查的時候能夠去做這件事情，可是你們始終都一直跟我講這是教育部的事情，可是教育部又不做勞動檢查，所以本席認為你們是不是要去跟教育部溝通，還是事實上這是你應該去承擔的，畢竟你們事實上是我們勞工者的最高主管機關，是不是應該要來做這件事情？"],["何部長佩珊：我跟委員報告，照顧比是教育部訂的啦，因為它會基於幼兒的照顧需求，以及……"],["林委員月琴：那是不是應該規定它就是法定的一個工作量，可是你們到了現場時，對於超過22個，你們大概也就默然、也就接受了，可是問題我就是只能照顧15個，甚至以孩子現在的狀況，我們都希望下降到12個，更何況是照顧22個，可是幼教現場很常是照顧負擔比超過它原來的法定，可是你們在勞動檢查的時候，並沒有針對這一塊去做查核，所以我希望未來是不是應該要查核。","因為我的時間有限，所以是不是在公布時，也能夠公布幼教人員的勞動契約範本，來讓他們知道一般約定事項，甚至特殊約定事項、禁止事項、救濟管道是什麼，可以訂在這邊。所以這四點，希望午休的待工時間應列為連續的工作時間，剛剛部長已經答應了。師生比的部分，也請你們跟教育部商量，要列入勞動檢查的方針是你們要做的事情，此外還有公布幼教人員的勞動契約範本，更重要的是，我們希望推動勞動契約約定的事項完整，就麻煩你們後續給我書面報告。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員的發言，謝謝何部長的答詢。","我們下一位請陳菁徽委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}}