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\"沒\", \"start\": 541.18, \"end\": 541.28, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 541.28, \"end\": 541.3, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 553.695, \"end\": 553.715, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 553.715, \"end\": 553.735, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 553.735, \"end\": 553.755, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,469 --> 00:00:17,358\n10月14號禮拜一的時候舉行了聯合歷屆2024B的軍演那中國說他這個是因為針對賴清德總統的雙十演說而來那我記得在上個會期的時候本席跟蔡局長其實我們有討論到這個2024這一個一系列的這個軍演的這個活動所以其實\n\n2\n00:00:24,581 --> 00:00:40,110\n其實之前在520的時候有2024A那再來現在雙十有2024B我其實在想未來可能還有CDE一系列的這個軍演的這個活動也就是說這本來就是他們早就已經規劃好的這個軍演\n\n3\n00:00:42,751 --> 00:00:43,092\n其實這本來就是他們規劃當中的這個軍演\n\n4\n00:00:59,253 --> 00:01:18,309\n好那這部分我們其實在4個會期就已經討論過只是說他什麼時候要來軍演好那再來那這軍演呢13個小時就結束了那甚至地方上有一些婆婆媽媽還說我的東西都還沒看好我財還沒看好肝臟還沒看好都已經結束了\n\n5\n00:01:19,470 --> 00:01:36,844\n甚至還有人在想說就這樣其實我們覺得這是一個很不好的一個現象你看像我這個剪刀上面有一個圖我本來剛開始看到這個圖的時候我一直以為這是網友哭笑出來的圖竟然沒有想到是中國海警\n\n6\n00:01:37,665 --> 00:01:50,922\n他們繪製出來的就說我們這包圍是用這個愛心海派的甜心來包圍臺灣巡航就是愛你的這個形狀這個是鬆懈臺灣民眾的心嗎這個部分這麼嚴肅的經驗可以弄出這樣子的一個圖局長您怎麼看\n\n7\n00:01:55,027 --> 00:02:09,043\n對,這部分也跟委員做了報告啦那這一次中共軍演的一個特色我剛在進來會場之前也跟各位媒體朋友做說明啦它的演習時間是比較短的那畫社的演習的區域也比較小那但是它動員的兵力\n\n8\n00:02:09,343 --> 00:02:09,383\n：羅美玲\n\n9\n00:02:24,694 --> 00:02:24,734\n：羅美玲\n\n10\n00:02:43,192 --> 00:02:43,312\n：羅美玲\n\n11\n00:03:04,324 --> 00:03:30,657\n可是他們這種表現的這個表示的這個方式其實是會真的是會鬆懈國人的這個警戒心因為大家覺得說也沒什麼嘛像剛剛局長所提到的他的部署啊等等國人好像對這個好像沒有那麼的在意然後只知道說那天早上可能就是有一個軍演那到了傍晚6點好像下班似的就結束了大家就會認為說就沒有什麼樣會不會變成說以後會變成有一種\n\n12\n00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,501\n因為現在國人對軍演是沒有感覺的\n\n13\n00:03:59,135 --> 00:04:21,170\n這其實是一個非常可怕的一個心態是事實上我們確實要謝謝委員的提醒那因為對於中共對台的一個脅迫我們一定要料底寵寬那除了看這個軍演從兩岸關係的角度來看以外有另外一個更重要的角度是中共的區域軍事戰略因為中共它有整體性希望變成是區域強權的一個政治目標要去追求\n\n14\n00:04:21,730 --> 00:04:21,870\n：羅美玲\n\n15\n00:04:36,907 --> 00:04:52,355\n蔡明彥的編隊也進入到第一次進入到日本的雨溪水域來展示他的軍威南海部分跟越南跟菲律賓的摩擦也不斷地在升高台海部分就像我剛剛一開始所提到的運用各種的理由把常態性的軍演再包裝再擴大來對台灣施壓\n\n16\n00:04:54,076 --> 00:05:22,899\n那他的理由有可能是我們國內相關政情發展的動態也有可能是外國對台灣表達高度的支持或來訪或是通過法案那中共也會動用這種軍演來對台灣施壓那找各種理由來進行練兵練兵過程當中他們也在檢視各種的武力擴張跟犯台的預案以便作為後續修正相關方案的一個參儲所以我覺得確實我們對這樣的一個共軍常態性的軍演絕對不能夠掉以輕心要持續的來密註\n\n17\n00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:51,475\n除了對這個軍演不能夠掉以輕心之外我們也怕哪一天是擦槍走火那再來更加需要我們國人更加注意的就是所謂的深層式的這個AI但今年的8月份澳洲有一個網路安全公司CyberCX他有發表了一個報告就是說他們發現了跟中國有關的一個虛擬的這個網站他大概有500\n\n18\n00:05:52,475 --> 00:06:19,853\n五千到八千個的虛假帳號組成了一個資訊站的網絡請問國安局對這個訊息有沒有掌握有這個訊息有沒有掌握我們特別提到這家公司應該是在今年的年初成立的我們注意到大概在今年的七月份它就開始很積極地在網絡上透過各種虛擬帳號來進行各種AI生成的假訊息的內容的散佈或是影音的散佈\n\n19\n00:06:20,854 --> 00:06:40,914\n國外也有一些機構已經資安公司機構已經注意到這個趨勢所以才會對外的釋放這個訊息那對於這種網路上中共所進行的這種認知作戰只要有這樣的訊息來源的話我們都會進行必要的來源的查找那目前為止有很多查找到的IP都是位在台灣境外\n\n20\n00:06:41,354 --> 00:07:08,650\n所以這一次我們在查處上會比較困難的地方不過也謝謝委員讓我們用這個機會來跟國人做個說明知道在辨識這種錯假訊息的過程當中應該要更慎重不要隨便來接收這些錯誤的訊息是局長我也請教一下像過去我們對虛假訊息我們都是用移除的方式像這種AI機器人資訊上網絡我們現在要如何去做反制我們有沒有能力去做反制\n\n21\n00:07:09,190 --> 00:07:23,206\n我大概有兩個主要的做法一個部分是剛剛所提到的就是把它揭露出來那畢竟它主要想要影響的受眾就是我們一般的民眾那假如民眾的媒體試讀能力能夠提升的話自然就不會比較受到這些錯假訊息的影響\n\n22\n00:07:24,187 --> 00:07:49,190\n第二部分呢在針對這些錯假訊息的部分那我們剛剛也提到了怎麼樣去來查找它的相關的一個散布的一個來源那假如說它是用AI生成的相關的錯假訊息或影音的話我們也會跟社群媒體的營運的公司來跟他做檢舉那因為就營運公司他們有一些網路規範的一些規定\n\n23\n00:07:49,730 --> 00:08:12,737\n我們來證明說他是所謂錯假訊息有違法的行為或是他是用AI生成的話那這個很大部分都會違反相關社群媒體經營的規則而會把它下架下來所以我們特別在像今年剛提到二合一大選以及到現在的期間已經做過非常非常多這樣的檢舉來下架這些有問題的影音\n\n24\n00:08:14,477 --> 00:08:37,111\n主席再給我一分鐘剛剛我們局長所提到的我們都是說經過散佈這些深層式AI過去都是散佈虛假的訊息或是透過這個深微deepfake然後來達到這個認知作戰跟界限的這個目的可是有沒有想過這些深層式的AI可能會對於我國的基礎建設造成非常嚴重的這個破壞有沒有想到這個\n\n25\n00:08:40,293 --> 00:08:40,674\n對．可能性存在\n\n26\n00:08:58,677 --> 00:09:01,300\n國安局有否想成立一個國安單位AI的安全單位之類的有沒有\n\n27\n00:09:13,695 --> 00:09:13,755\n時間到了,謝謝,謝謝局長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n469\t17358\t10月14號禮拜一的時候舉行了聯合歷屆2024B的軍演那中國說他這個是因為針對賴清德總統的雙十演說而來那我記得在上個會期的時候本席跟蔡局長其實我們有討論到這個2024這一個一系列的這個軍演的這個活動所以其實\n24581\t40110\t其實之前在520的時候有2024A那再來現在雙十有2024B我其實在想未來可能還有CDE一系列的這個軍演的這個活動也就是說這本來就是他們早就已經規劃好的這個軍演\n42751\t43092\t其實這本來就是他們規劃當中的這個軍演\n59253\t78309\t好那這部分我們其實在4個會期就已經討論過只是說他什麼時候要來軍演好那再來那這軍演呢13個小時就結束了那甚至地方上有一些婆婆媽媽還說我的東西都還沒看好我財還沒看好肝臟還沒看好都已經結束了\n79470\t96844\t甚至還有人在想說就這樣其實我們覺得這是一個很不好的一個現象你看像我這個剪刀上面有一個圖我本來剛開始看到這個圖的時候我一直以為這是網友哭笑出來的圖竟然沒有想到是中國海警\n97665\t110922\t他們繪製出來的就說我們這包圍是用這個愛心海派的甜心來包圍臺灣巡航就是愛你的這個形狀這個是鬆懈臺灣民眾的心嗎這個部分這麼嚴肅的經驗可以弄出這樣子的一個圖局長您怎麼看\n115027\t129043\t對,這部分也跟委員做了報告啦那這一次中共軍演的一個特色我剛在進來會場之前也跟各位媒體朋友做說明啦它的演習時間是比較短的那畫社的演習的區域也比較小那但是它動員的兵力\n129343\t129383\t：羅美玲\n144694\t144734\t：羅美玲\n163192\t163312\t：羅美玲\n184324\t210657\t可是他們這種表現的這個表示的這個方式其實是會真的是會鬆懈國人的這個警戒心因為大家覺得說也沒什麼嘛像剛剛局長所提到的他的部署啊等等國人好像對這個好像沒有那麼的在意然後只知道說那天早上可能就是有一個軍演那到了傍晚6點好像下班似的就結束了大家就會認為說就沒有什麼樣會不會變成說以後會變成有一種\n215000\t216501\t因為現在國人對軍演是沒有感覺的\n239135\t261170\t這其實是一個非常可怕的一個心態是 事實上我們確實要謝謝委員的提醒那因為對於中共對台的一個脅迫我們一定要料底寵寬那除了看這個軍演從兩岸關係的角度來看以外有另外一個更重要的角度是中共的區域軍事戰略因為中共它有整體性希望變成是區域強權的一個政治目標要去追求\n261730\t261870\t：羅美玲\n276907\t292355\t蔡明彥的編隊也進入到第一次進入到日本的雨溪水域來展示他的軍威南海部分跟越南跟菲律賓的摩擦也不斷地在升高台海部分就像我剛剛一開始所提到的運用各種的理由把常態性的軍演再包裝再擴大來對台灣施壓\n294076\t322899\t那他的理由有可能是我們國內相關政情發展的動態也有可能是外國對台灣表達高度的支持或來訪或是通過法案那中共也會動用這種軍演來對台灣施壓那找各種理由來進行練兵練兵過程當中他們也在檢視各種的武力擴張跟犯台的預案以便作為後續修正相關方案的一個參儲所以我覺得確實我們對這樣的一個共軍常態性的軍演絕對不能夠掉以輕心要持續的來密註\n324400\t351475\t除了對這個軍演不能夠掉以輕心之外我們也怕哪一天是擦槍走火那再來更加需要我們國人更加注意的就是所謂的深層式的這個AI但今年的8月份澳洲有一個網路安全公司Cyber CX他有發表了一個報告就是說他們發現了跟中國有關的一個虛擬的這個網站他大概有500\n352475\t379853\t五千到八千個的虛假帳號組成了一個資訊站的網絡請問國安局對這個訊息有沒有掌握有 這個訊息有沒有掌握我們特別提到這家公司應該是在今年的年初成立的我們注意到大概在今年的七月份它就開始很積極地在網絡上透過各種虛擬帳號來進行各種AI生成的假訊息的內容的散佈或是影音的散佈\n380854\t400914\t國外也有一些機構已經資安公司機構已經注意到這個趨勢所以才會對外的釋放這個訊息那對於這種網路上中共所進行的這種認知作戰只要有這樣的訊息來源的話我們都會進行必要的來源的查找那目前為止有很多查找到的IP都是位在台灣境外\n401354\t428650\t所以這一次我們在查處上會比較困難的地方不過也謝謝委員讓我們用這個機會來跟國人做個說明知道在辨識這種錯假訊息的過程當中應該要更慎重不要隨便來接收這些錯誤的訊息是 局長我也請教一下像過去我們對虛假訊息我們都是用移除的方式像這種AI機器人資訊上網絡我們現在要如何去做反制我們有沒有能力去做反制\n429190\t443206\t我大概有兩個主要的做法一個部分是剛剛所提到的就是把它揭露出來那畢竟它主要想要影響的受眾就是我們一般的民眾那假如民眾的媒體試讀能力能夠提升的話自然就不會比較受到這些錯假訊息的影響\n444187\t469190\t第二部分呢在針對這些錯假訊息的部分那我們剛剛也提到了怎麼樣去來查找它的相關的一個散布的一個來源那假如說它是用AI生成的相關的錯假訊息或影音的話我們也會跟社群媒體的營運的公司來跟他做檢舉那因為就營運公司他們有一些網路規範的一些規定\n469730\t492737\t我們來證明說他是所謂錯假訊息有違法的行為或是他是用AI生成的話那這個很大部分都會違反相關社群媒體經營的規則而會把它下架下來所以我們特別在像今年剛提到二合一大選以及到現在的期間已經做過非常非常多這樣的檢舉來下架這些有問題的影音\n494477\t517111\t主席再給我一分鐘剛剛我們局長所提到的我們都是說經過散佈這些深層式AI過去都是散佈虛假的訊息或是透過這個深微deepfake然後來達到這個認知作戰跟界限的這個目的可是有沒有想過這些深層式的AI可能會對於我國的基礎建設造成非常嚴重的這個破壞有沒有想到這個\n520293\t520674\t對．可能性存在\n538677\t541300\t國安局有否想成立一個國安單位AI的安全單位之類的有沒有\n553695\t553755\t時間到了,謝謝,謝謝局長\n","txt":"10月14號禮拜一的時候舉行了聯合歷屆2024B的軍演那中國說他這個是因為針對賴清德總統的雙十演說而來那我記得在上個會期的時候本席跟蔡局長其實我們有討論到這個2024這一個一系列的這個軍演的這個活動所以其實\n其實之前在520的時候有2024A那再來現在雙十有2024B我其實在想未來可能還有CDE一系列的這個軍演的這個活動也就是說這本來就是他們早就已經規劃好的這個軍演\n其實這本來就是他們規劃當中的這個軍演\n好那這部分我們其實在4個會期就已經討論過只是說他什麼時候要來軍演好那再來那這軍演呢13個小時就結束了那甚至地方上有一些婆婆媽媽還說我的東西都還沒看好我財還沒看好肝臟還沒看好都已經結束了\n甚至還有人在想說就這樣其實我們覺得這是一個很不好的一個現象你看像我這個剪刀上面有一個圖我本來剛開始看到這個圖的時候我一直以為這是網友哭笑出來的圖竟然沒有想到是中國海警\n他們繪製出來的就說我們這包圍是用這個愛心海派的甜心來包圍臺灣巡航就是愛你的這個形狀這個是鬆懈臺灣民眾的心嗎這個部分這麼嚴肅的經驗可以弄出這樣子的一個圖局長您怎麼看\n對,這部分也跟委員做了報告啦那這一次中共軍演的一個特色我剛在進來會場之前也跟各位媒體朋友做說明啦它的演習時間是比較短的那畫社的演習的區域也比較小那但是它動員的兵力\n：羅美玲\n：羅美玲\n：羅美玲\n可是他們這種表現的這個表示的這個方式其實是會真的是會鬆懈國人的這個警戒心因為大家覺得說也沒什麼嘛像剛剛局長所提到的他的部署啊等等國人好像對這個好像沒有那麼的在意然後只知道說那天早上可能就是有一個軍演那到了傍晚6點好像下班似的就結束了大家就會認為說就沒有什麼樣會不會變成說以後會變成有一種\n因為現在國人對軍演是沒有感覺的\n這其實是一個非常可怕的一個心態是 事實上我們確實要謝謝委員的提醒那因為對於中共對台的一個脅迫我們一定要料底寵寬那除了看這個軍演從兩岸關係的角度來看以外有另外一個更重要的角度是中共的區域軍事戰略因為中共它有整體性希望變成是區域強權的一個政治目標要去追求\n：羅美玲\n蔡明彥的編隊也進入到第一次進入到日本的雨溪水域來展示他的軍威南海部分跟越南跟菲律賓的摩擦也不斷地在升高台海部分就像我剛剛一開始所提到的運用各種的理由把常態性的軍演再包裝再擴大來對台灣施壓\n那他的理由有可能是我們國內相關政情發展的動態也有可能是外國對台灣表達高度的支持或來訪或是通過法案那中共也會動用這種軍演來對台灣施壓那找各種理由來進行練兵練兵過程當中他們也在檢視各種的武力擴張跟犯台的預案以便作為後續修正相關方案的一個參儲所以我覺得確實我們對這樣的一個共軍常態性的軍演絕對不能夠掉以輕心要持續的來密註\n除了對這個軍演不能夠掉以輕心之外我們也怕哪一天是擦槍走火那再來更加需要我們國人更加注意的就是所謂的深層式的這個AI但今年的8月份澳洲有一個網路安全公司Cyber CX他有發表了一個報告就是說他們發現了跟中國有關的一個虛擬的這個網站他大概有500\n五千到八千個的虛假帳號組成了一個資訊站的網絡請問國安局對這個訊息有沒有掌握有 這個訊息有沒有掌握我們特別提到這家公司應該是在今年的年初成立的我們注意到大概在今年的七月份它就開始很積極地在網絡上透過各種虛擬帳號來進行各種AI生成的假訊息的內容的散佈或是影音的散佈\n國外也有一些機構已經資安公司機構已經注意到這個趨勢所以才會對外的釋放這個訊息那對於這種網路上中共所進行的這種認知作戰只要有這樣的訊息來源的話我們都會進行必要的來源的查找那目前為止有很多查找到的IP都是位在台灣境外\n所以這一次我們在查處上會比較困難的地方不過也謝謝委員讓我們用這個機會來跟國人做個說明知道在辨識這種錯假訊息的過程當中應該要更慎重不要隨便來接收這些錯誤的訊息是 局長我也請教一下像過去我們對虛假訊息我們都是用移除的方式像這種AI機器人資訊上網絡我們現在要如何去做反制我們有沒有能力去做反制\n我大概有兩個主要的做法一個部分是剛剛所提到的就是把它揭露出來那畢竟它主要想要影響的受眾就是我們一般的民眾那假如民眾的媒體試讀能力能夠提升的話自然就不會比較受到這些錯假訊息的影響\n第二部分呢在針對這些錯假訊息的部分那我們剛剛也提到了怎麼樣去來查找它的相關的一個散布的一個來源那假如說它是用AI生成的相關的錯假訊息或影音的話我們也會跟社群媒體的營運的公司來跟他做檢舉那因為就營運公司他們有一些網路規範的一些規定\n我們來證明說他是所謂錯假訊息有違法的行為或是他是用AI生成的話那這個很大部分都會違反相關社群媒體經營的規則而會把它下架下來所以我們特別在像今年剛提到二合一大選以及到現在的期間已經做過非常非常多這樣的檢舉來下架這些有問題的影音\n主席再給我一分鐘剛剛我們局長所提到的我們都是說經過散佈這些深層式AI過去都是散佈虛假的訊息或是透過這個深微deepfake然後來達到這個認知作戰跟界限的這個目的可是有沒有想過這些深層式的AI可能會對於我國的基礎建設造成非常嚴重的這個破壞有沒有想到這個\n對．可能性存在\n國安局有否想成立一個國安單位AI的安全單位之類的有沒有\n時間到了,謝謝,謝謝局長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.469 --> 00:17.358\n10月14號禮拜一的時候舉行了聯合歷屆2024B的軍演那中國說他這個是因為針對賴清德總統的雙十演說而來那我記得在上個會期的時候本席跟蔡局長其實我們有討論到這個2024這一個一系列的這個軍演的這個活動所以其實\n\n00:24.581 --> 00:40.110\n其實之前在520的時候有2024A那再來現在雙十有2024B我其實在想未來可能還有CDE一系列的這個軍演的這個活動也就是說這本來就是他們早就已經規劃好的這個軍演\n\n00:42.751 --> 00:43.092\n其實這本來就是他們規劃當中的這個軍演\n\n00:59.253 --> 01:18.309\n好那這部分我們其實在4個會期就已經討論過只是說他什麼時候要來軍演好那再來那這軍演呢13個小時就結束了那甚至地方上有一些婆婆媽媽還說我的東西都還沒看好我財還沒看好肝臟還沒看好都已經結束了\n\n01:19.470 --> 01:36.844\n甚至還有人在想說就這樣其實我們覺得這是一個很不好的一個現象你看像我這個剪刀上面有一個圖我本來剛開始看到這個圖的時候我一直以為這是網友哭笑出來的圖竟然沒有想到是中國海警\n\n01:37.665 --> 01:50.922\n他們繪製出來的就說我們這包圍是用這個愛心海派的甜心來包圍臺灣巡航就是愛你的這個形狀這個是鬆懈臺灣民眾的心嗎這個部分這麼嚴肅的經驗可以弄出這樣子的一個圖局長您怎麼看\n\n01:55.027 --> 02:09.043\n對,這部分也跟委員做了報告啦那這一次中共軍演的一個特色我剛在進來會場之前也跟各位媒體朋友做說明啦它的演習時間是比較短的那畫社的演習的區域也比較小那但是它動員的兵力\n\n02:09.343 --> 02:09.383\n：羅美玲\n\n02:24.694 --> 02:24.734\n：羅美玲\n\n02:43.192 --> 02:43.312\n：羅美玲\n\n03:04.324 --> 03:30.657\n可是他們這種表現的這個表示的這個方式其實是會真的是會鬆懈國人的這個警戒心因為大家覺得說也沒什麼嘛像剛剛局長所提到的他的部署啊等等國人好像對這個好像沒有那麼的在意然後只知道說那天早上可能就是有一個軍演那到了傍晚6點好像下班似的就結束了大家就會認為說就沒有什麼樣會不會變成說以後會變成有一種\n\n03:35.000 --> 03:36.501\n因為現在國人對軍演是沒有感覺的\n\n03:59.135 --> 04:21.170\n這其實是一個非常可怕的一個心態是事實上我們確實要謝謝委員的提醒那因為對於中共對台的一個脅迫我們一定要料底寵寬那除了看這個軍演從兩岸關係的角度來看以外有另外一個更重要的角度是中共的區域軍事戰略因為中共它有整體性希望變成是區域強權的一個政治目標要去追求\n\n04:21.730 --> 04:21.870\n：羅美玲\n\n04:36.907 --> 04:52.355\n蔡明彥的編隊也進入到第一次進入到日本的雨溪水域來展示他的軍威南海部分跟越南跟菲律賓的摩擦也不斷地在升高台海部分就像我剛剛一開始所提到的運用各種的理由把常態性的軍演再包裝再擴大來對台灣施壓\n\n04:54.076 --> 05:22.899\n那他的理由有可能是我們國內相關政情發展的動態也有可能是外國對台灣表達高度的支持或來訪或是通過法案那中共也會動用這種軍演來對台灣施壓那找各種理由來進行練兵練兵過程當中他們也在檢視各種的武力擴張跟犯台的預案以便作為後續修正相關方案的一個參儲所以我覺得確實我們對這樣的一個共軍常態性的軍演絕對不能夠掉以輕心要持續的來密註\n\n05:24.400 --> 05:51.475\n除了對這個軍演不能夠掉以輕心之外我們也怕哪一天是擦槍走火那再來更加需要我們國人更加注意的就是所謂的深層式的這個AI但今年的8月份澳洲有一個網路安全公司CyberCX他有發表了一個報告就是說他們發現了跟中國有關的一個虛擬的這個網站他大概有500\n\n05:52.475 --> 06:19.853\n五千到八千個的虛假帳號組成了一個資訊站的網絡請問國安局對這個訊息有沒有掌握有這個訊息有沒有掌握我們特別提到這家公司應該是在今年的年初成立的我們注意到大概在今年的七月份它就開始很積極地在網絡上透過各種虛擬帳號來進行各種AI生成的假訊息的內容的散佈或是影音的散佈\n\n06:20.854 --> 06:40.914\n國外也有一些機構已經資安公司機構已經注意到這個趨勢所以才會對外的釋放這個訊息那對於這種網路上中共所進行的這種認知作戰只要有這樣的訊息來源的話我們都會進行必要的來源的查找那目前為止有很多查找到的IP都是位在台灣境外\n\n06:41.354 --> 07:08.650\n所以這一次我們在查處上會比較困難的地方不過也謝謝委員讓我們用這個機會來跟國人做個說明知道在辨識這種錯假訊息的過程當中應該要更慎重不要隨便來接收這些錯誤的訊息是局長我也請教一下像過去我們對虛假訊息我們都是用移除的方式像這種AI機器人資訊上網絡我們現在要如何去做反制我們有沒有能力去做反制\n\n07:09.190 --> 07:23.206\n我大概有兩個主要的做法一個部分是剛剛所提到的就是把它揭露出來那畢竟它主要想要影響的受眾就是我們一般的民眾那假如民眾的媒體試讀能力能夠提升的話自然就不會比較受到這些錯假訊息的影響\n\n07:24.187 --> 07:49.190\n第二部分呢在針對這些錯假訊息的部分那我們剛剛也提到了怎麼樣去來查找它的相關的一個散布的一個來源那假如說它是用AI生成的相關的錯假訊息或影音的話我們也會跟社群媒體的營運的公司來跟他做檢舉那因為就營運公司他們有一些網路規範的一些規定\n\n07:49.730 --> 08:12.737\n我們來證明說他是所謂錯假訊息有違法的行為或是他是用AI生成的話那這個很大部分都會違反相關社群媒體經營的規則而會把它下架下來所以我們特別在像今年剛提到二合一大選以及到現在的期間已經做過非常非常多這樣的檢舉來下架這些有問題的影音\n\n08:14.477 --> 08:37.111\n主席再給我一分鐘剛剛我們局長所提到的我們都是說經過散佈這些深層式AI過去都是散佈虛假的訊息或是透過這個深微deepfake然後來達到這個認知作戰跟界限的這個目的可是有沒有想過這些深層式的AI可能會對於我國的基礎建設造成非常嚴重的這個破壞有沒有想到這個\n\n08:40.293 --> 08:40.674\n對．可能性存在\n\n08:58.677 --> 09:01.300\n國安局有否想成立一個國安單位AI的安全單位之類的有沒有\n\n09:13.695 --> 09:13.755\n時間到了,謝謝,謝謝局長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.469,"end":17.358,"text":"10月14號禮拜一的時候舉行了聯合歷屆2024B的軍演那中國說他這個是因為針對賴清德總統的雙十演說而來那我記得在上個會期的時候本席跟蔡局長其實我們有討論到這個2024這一個一系列的這個軍演的這個活動所以其實"},{"start":24.581,"end":40.11,"text":"其實之前在520的時候有2024A那再來現在雙十有2024B我其實在想未來可能還有CDE一系列的這個軍演的這個活動也就是說這本來就是他們早就已經規劃好的這個軍演"},{"start":42.751,"end":43.092,"text":"其實這本來就是他們規劃當中的這個軍演"},{"start":59.253,"end":78.309,"text":"好那這部分我們其實在4個會期就已經討論過只是說他什麼時候要來軍演好那再來那這軍演呢13個小時就結束了那甚至地方上有一些婆婆媽媽還說我的東西都還沒看好我財還沒看好肝臟還沒看好都已經結束了"},{"start":79.47,"end":96.844,"text":"甚至還有人在想說就這樣其實我們覺得這是一個很不好的一個現象你看像我這個剪刀上面有一個圖我本來剛開始看到這個圖的時候我一直以為這是網友哭笑出來的圖竟然沒有想到是中國海警"},{"start":97.665,"end":110.922,"text":"他們繪製出來的就說我們這包圍是用這個愛心海派的甜心來包圍臺灣巡航就是愛你的這個形狀這個是鬆懈臺灣民眾的心嗎這個部分這麼嚴肅的經驗可以弄出這樣子的一個圖局長您怎麼看"},{"start":115.027,"end":129.043,"text":"對,這部分也跟委員做了報告啦那這一次中共軍演的一個特色我剛在進來會場之前也跟各位媒體朋友做說明啦它的演習時間是比較短的那畫社的演習的區域也比較小那但是它動員的兵力"},{"start":129.343,"end":129.383,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":144.694,"end":144.734,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":163.192,"end":163.312,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":184.324,"end":210.657,"text":"可是他們這種表現的這個表示的這個方式其實是會真的是會鬆懈國人的這個警戒心因為大家覺得說也沒什麼嘛像剛剛局長所提到的他的部署啊等等國人好像對這個好像沒有那麼的在意然後只知道說那天早上可能就是有一個軍演那到了傍晚6點好像下班似的就結束了大家就會認為說就沒有什麼樣會不會變成說以後會變成有一種"},{"start":215,"end":216.501,"text":"因為現在國人對軍演是沒有感覺的"},{"start":239.135,"end":261.17,"text":"這其實是一個非常可怕的一個心態是 事實上我們確實要謝謝委員的提醒那因為對於中共對台的一個脅迫我們一定要料底寵寬那除了看這個軍演從兩岸關係的角度來看以外有另外一個更重要的角度是中共的區域軍事戰略因為中共它有整體性希望變成是區域強權的一個政治目標要去追求"},{"start":261.73,"end":261.87,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":276.907,"end":292.355,"text":"蔡明彥的編隊也進入到第一次進入到日本的雨溪水域來展示他的軍威南海部分跟越南跟菲律賓的摩擦也不斷地在升高台海部分就像我剛剛一開始所提到的運用各種的理由把常態性的軍演再包裝再擴大來對台灣施壓"},{"start":294.076,"end":322.899,"text":"那他的理由有可能是我們國內相關政情發展的動態也有可能是外國對台灣表達高度的支持或來訪或是通過法案那中共也會動用這種軍演來對台灣施壓那找各種理由來進行練兵練兵過程當中他們也在檢視各種的武力擴張跟犯台的預案以便作為後續修正相關方案的一個參儲所以我覺得確實我們對這樣的一個共軍常態性的軍演絕對不能夠掉以輕心要持續的來密註"},{"start":324.4,"end":351.475,"text":"除了對這個軍演不能夠掉以輕心之外我們也怕哪一天是擦槍走火那再來更加需要我們國人更加注意的就是所謂的深層式的這個AI但今年的8月份澳洲有一個網路安全公司Cyber CX他有發表了一個報告就是說他們發現了跟中國有關的一個虛擬的這個網站他大概有500"},{"start":352.475,"end":379.853,"text":"五千到八千個的虛假帳號組成了一個資訊站的網絡請問國安局對這個訊息有沒有掌握有 這個訊息有沒有掌握我們特別提到這家公司應該是在今年的年初成立的我們注意到大概在今年的七月份它就開始很積極地在網絡上透過各種虛擬帳號來進行各種AI生成的假訊息的內容的散佈或是影音的散佈"},{"start":380.854,"end":400.914,"text":"國外也有一些機構已經資安公司機構已經注意到這個趨勢所以才會對外的釋放這個訊息那對於這種網路上中共所進行的這種認知作戰只要有這樣的訊息來源的話我們都會進行必要的來源的查找那目前為止有很多查找到的IP都是位在台灣境外"},{"start":401.354,"end":428.65,"text":"所以這一次我們在查處上會比較困難的地方不過也謝謝委員讓我們用這個機會來跟國人做個說明知道在辨識這種錯假訊息的過程當中應該要更慎重不要隨便來接收這些錯誤的訊息是 局長我也請教一下像過去我們對虛假訊息我們都是用移除的方式像這種AI機器人資訊上網絡我們現在要如何去做反制我們有沒有能力去做反制"},{"start":429.19,"end":443.206,"text":"我大概有兩個主要的做法一個部分是剛剛所提到的就是把它揭露出來那畢竟它主要想要影響的受眾就是我們一般的民眾那假如民眾的媒體試讀能力能夠提升的話自然就不會比較受到這些錯假訊息的影響"},{"start":444.187,"end":469.19,"text":"第二部分呢在針對這些錯假訊息的部分那我們剛剛也提到了怎麼樣去來查找它的相關的一個散布的一個來源那假如說它是用AI生成的相關的錯假訊息或影音的話我們也會跟社群媒體的營運的公司來跟他做檢舉那因為就營運公司他們有一些網路規範的一些規定"},{"start":469.73,"end":492.737,"text":"我們來證明說他是所謂錯假訊息有違法的行為或是他是用AI生成的話那這個很大部分都會違反相關社群媒體經營的規則而會把它下架下來所以我們特別在像今年剛提到二合一大選以及到現在的期間已經做過非常非常多這樣的檢舉來下架這些有問題的影音"},{"start":494.477,"end":517.111,"text":"主席再給我一分鐘剛剛我們局長所提到的我們都是說經過散佈這些深層式AI過去都是散佈虛假的訊息或是透過這個深微deepfake然後來達到這個認知作戰跟界限的這個目的可是有沒有想過這些深層式的AI可能會對於我國的基礎建設造成非常嚴重的這個破壞有沒有想到這個"},{"start":520.293,"end":520.674,"text":"對．可能性存在"},{"start":538.677,"end":541.3,"text":"國安局有否想成立一個國安單位AI的安全單位之類的有沒有"},{"start":553.695,"end":553.755,"text":"時間到了,謝謝,謝謝局長"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-4","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:34:21 - 09:43:58","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","id":155500,"gazette":{"lineno":107,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時34分）謝謝主席，有請國安局蔡局長。"],["主席：局長請。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，羅委員早。"],["羅委員美玲：局長早。局長，中國在10月14號禮拜一的時候，舉行了「聯合利劍─2024B」的軍演，中國說這個是針對賴清德總統的雙十演說而來，我記得在上個會期的時候，本席跟蔡局長其實有討論到這個2024一系列的軍演活動，所以其實之前在520的時候有2024A，那再來現在雙十有2024B，本席在想未來可能還有CDE一系列的軍演活動，也就是說，這本來就是他們早就已經規劃好的軍演，只是說就看看在臺灣有哪一個，像總統也好，或者是政治人物也好，講了那些他們不中聽的一些話，它就來軍演一次，其實這本來就是他們規劃當中的軍演。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["羅委員美玲：那這部分，我們其實在上個會期就已經討論過，只是說它什麼時候要來軍演。再來，這個軍演13個小時就結束了，甚至地方上有一些婆婆媽媽還說，我的東西都還沒準備好，菜也還沒準備好，都還沒準備好就已經結束了，甚至還有人在想說就這樣喔？其實我們覺得這是一個很不好的現象，你看像我這個簡報上面有一個圖，我本來剛開始看到這個圖的時候，我一直以為這是網友kuso出來的圖，結果沒有想到是中國海警他們繪製出來的，就是說我們在包圍是用愛心、海派甜心來包圍臺灣，巡航就是愛你的這個形狀，這個是鬆懈臺灣民眾的心嗎？這麼嚴肅的軍演可以弄出這樣子的一個圖，局長，你怎麼看呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：這部分我跟委員做個報告，這一次中共軍演的一個特色，我剛剛在進來會場之前，也跟各位媒體朋友做說明，它的演習時間是比較短的，那劃設的演習區域也比較小，但是它動員的兵力，特別在空中兵力，動員的強度有比較高一點。在整個演習過程當中，我們除了去注意中共的軍事動態以外，也花很多時間在應處各種的爭議訊息，包括網路上流傳的各種圖卡，都是錯誤的資訊或是影音的這種散布。那委員剛剛所提到的就是中共的海警，也在演習過程當中有釋放這樣的訊息，認為說這是一個愛的擁抱，那是在關心臺灣。但事實上在演習過程當中，中共除了派出海軍的船艦以外，也派出海警船，這次有16艘的海警船加上1艘的海巡船跟1艘的海調船，總共18艘在臺海周邊，沒有進到我們24浬，是在以外的水域巡弋，所以海警才會有這樣的一個圖卡，認為說它 們有在周邊來進行相關的活動。"],["羅委員美玲：可是他們這種表示的方式，其實真的是會鬆懈國人的警戒心，因為大家覺得說也沒什麼嘛！像剛剛局長所提到它的部署等等，國人好像對這個沒有那麼在意，然後只知道那天早上可能有一個軍演，到傍晚6點好像下班似的就結束了，大家會認為說就沒有怎麼樣，會不會以後會變成有一種狼來了的那種氛圍，下次軍演他們可能也不在意？因為我們有看到烏俄戰爭開戰以前，俄羅斯也是一樣，它用軍演的方式，然後就說他們要做軍演，然後做了很多的部署，突然間哪一天就宣戰了，我們會不會面臨這種局面？因為現在國人看起來好像對這個軍演是沒有感覺的，這其實是一個非常可怕的心態。"],["蔡局長明彥：事實上我們確實要謝謝委員的提醒，因為對於中共對臺的一個脅迫，我們一定要料敵從寬，看這個軍演除了從兩岸關係的角度來看以外，有另外一個更重要的角度是中共的區域軍事戰略，因為中共它有整體性，希望變成是區域強權的政治目標要去追求，所以他們不斷地在周邊的水域，包括東海、臺海跟南海有相關的軍事動作，所以我們不能夠掉以輕心。像在東海的部分，中共的電偵機第一次侵入到日本的領空，那中共的航母遼寧艦的編隊，也第一次進入到日本的與、西水域來展示它的軍威。南海部分，跟越南跟菲律賓的摩擦也不斷地在升高。臺海部分就像委員剛剛一開始所提到的，運用各種的理由，把常態性的軍演再包裝、再擴大，來對臺灣施壓，那它的理由有可能是我們國內相關政情發展的動態，也有可能是外國對臺灣表達高度的支持或來訪或是通過法案，那中共也會動員這種軍演來對臺灣施壓，找各種理由來進行練兵，練兵過程當中，他們也在檢視各種的武力擴張跟犯臺的預案，以便做為後續修正相關方案的一個參處，所以我覺得確實我們對共軍這樣常態性的軍演絕對不能夠掉以輕心，要持續的來密注。"],["羅委員美玲：除了對軍演不能夠掉以輕心之外，我們也怕哪一天是擦槍走火。再來，更加需要我們國人更加注意的就是所謂的生成式AI，在今年的8月份澳洲有一個網路安全公司CyberCX發表了一個報告，他們發現跟中國有關的一個虛擬網站，它大概有5,000到8,000個虛假帳號，組成了一個資訊戰的網絡，那請問國安局對這個訊息有沒有掌握？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，這個訊息我們有掌握，委員特別提到的這家公司應該是在今年的年初成立的，那我們注意到大概在今年的7月份他就開始很積極的在網路上，透過各種虛擬帳號來進行各種AI生成的假訊息內容散布，或是影音的散布，那國外也有一些機構以及資安公司的機構已經注意到這個趨勢，所以才會對外釋放這個訊息。對於這種網路上中共所進行的認知作戰，只要有這樣的訊息來源的話，我們都會進行必要的來源查找，那目前為止有很多查找到的IP都是位在臺灣境外，所以這也是我們在查處上會比較困難的地方，不過也謝謝委員讓我們用這個機會來跟國人做說明，知道在辨識這種錯假訊息的過程當中，應該要更慎重，不要隨便接受這些錯誤的訊息。"],["羅委員美玲：是。局長，我請教一下，像過去我們對虛假訊息都是用移除的方式，像這種AI機器人資訊戰網路，我們是要如何去做反制？我們有沒有能力去做反制？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，大概有兩個主要的作法，一個部分是剛剛所提到的，就是把它揭露出來，畢竟它主要想要影響的受眾就是我們一般的民眾，假如民眾、媒體的識讀能力能夠提升的話，自然就比較不會受到這些錯假訊息的影響。那第二部分，在針對這些錯假訊息的部分，我們剛剛也提到了，怎麼樣去查找相關散布的來源，假如說它是用AI生成的，相關的錯假訊息或影音的話，我們也會跟社群媒體的營運公司來做檢舉，因為營運公司他們有一些網路規範的規定，那我們來證明說它是所謂錯假訊息，有違法的行為，或者是它是用AI生成的話，那很大部分都會違反相關社群媒體經營的規則，而會把它下架下來，特別像今年，剛剛提到二合一大選以及到現在的期間，已經做過非常非常多這樣的檢舉，來下架這些有問題的影音。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，主席，再給我一分鐘。剛剛我們局長所提到的，都是經過散布……這些生成式AI過去都是散布虛假的訊息，或者是透過深偽（Deepfake），然後來達到認知作戰跟介選的目的，可是有沒有想過這些生成式AI可能會對於我國的基礎建設造成非常嚴重的破壞，這個有沒有想到？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，因為AI有時候可以去自動生成一些病毒程式來對目標……這確實是技術上……"],["羅委員美玲：對，它可以自動升級、自動化編解程式。所以會侵入國家的基礎建設造成一些破壞，這有可能嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，可能性存在。"],["羅委員美玲：不單單只是傳播假訊息、深偽這麼簡單而已，會越來越複雜對不對？"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["羅委員美玲：國安局有沒有想要在底下成立一個AI安全單位之類的，因為很多國家都已經成立了？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，我們內部大概去年各個單位都有成立這樣的AI小組，也針對各種AI生成技術的發展趨勢進行相關研析，特別重要的是在我們內部的資安環境有沒有一些漏洞，可能會讓這些AI生成程式發動攻擊，這是我們關注的重點，謝謝委員提醒。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，時間到了，謝謝，謝謝局長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：針對這個題目我們改天會排專報，因為這是一個問題，到底有沒有辦法應處。","接下來進行詢答的委員是陳永康委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":406,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-4","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","馬文君","黃仁","徐巧芯","林憶君","陳冠廷","黃國昌","賴士葆","羅廷瑋","洪申翰","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","翁曉玲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":351,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00004"}}}