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00:00:44,082\n半年的時間已經到了你們想要低於數字的六成那因為我就有上半年的數據您會知道到至今9月10月已經有多少人了嗎到9月底66所以距離你們的68所以今年你覺得可能沒有辦法了\n\n3\n00:00:55,851 --> 00:01:12,785\n我承認確實是有困難那麼我要跟委員報告因為我們營建業他的有很多相關的問題必須要我們要來面對那麼包括我們要推動子彈法的修法也是這個原因他主要是第一個建築工程他現在就是大規模\n\n4\n00:01:13,625 --> 00:01:18,146\n您的意思是說因為現在的施工比較複雜工程量又很大我先給你看一下110年的時候你們也訂定了一個營造業減災加強年也是想要下降死亡結果跟你們今年的\n\n5\n00:01:41,551 --> 00:02:04,687\n這個營造業墜落打擊年一樣你只是有一個口號結果呢110年定了這個營造業減災加強年之後啊你看一下這個表的死亡人數定完了以後是越來越高我覺得本席比較難過的是這些人是中壯年他可能是一整個家庭的支柱然後你定了口號\n\n6\n00:02:05,427 --> 00:02:23,950\n你也定了目標你今天還把自己的目標設在68結果現在已經66人墜落死亡致死所以你110年111112到底做了哪些事很顯然他沒有很很大的效果啊你現在是要告訴我說\n\n7\n00:02:25,712 --> 00:02:35,440\n113年你預計要修改哪一些環節而不是跟我描述說這些工程的複雜度有多麼的嚴重然後有多麼的缺工你應該是去從110年開始修改吧\n\n8\n00:02:39,401 --> 00:02:56,314\n對我跟委員報告我們就是這樣所以我們正在加緊推動自然法的修法我們希望能夠把這一個營造業裡面不當的工程文化啦因為他們大概用承攬嘛用承攬來規避責任然後這個有很尤其是最\n\n9\n00:02:56,974 --> 00:02:57,534\n一百一十年為什麽你們沒有辦法落實減災加強面\n\n10\n00:03:25,174 --> 00:03:53,070\n是因為勞工未接受教育訓練者就有37人其中以建築工程的27人為最高都已經告訴你答案了啊是這也是也是相關的問題啊因為你要刻意這一個施工者可是這個你不用等職安法修法你應該就可以做到了對對對現在有在做可是現在有在做顯然還不夠那你有把今年這66位的原因都已經列出來了嗎\n\n11\n00:03:54,091 --> 00:04:15,524\n我們有在分析當然裡面移工比例也很高所以對尤其是移工他的職災的發生率本來就比較高所以我們現在也在強化移工的這一個關於職安位的這個母語這方面的界面的提供對希望能夠給他一些教育訓練所以你的意思是說之前你們沒有做他的母語的職安\n\n12\n00:04:33,539 --> 00:04:57,595\n跟委員報告,其實發生職業災害這些勞工沒有做教育訓練我們有發生這個問題所以我們擴大了營造業的那個愛情教育訓練我們發資安卡訓練合格才讓勞工到現場工作但是台灣很多中小型的微型工程包括是冷氣安裝或是物理安裝都小型微型工程確實我們有時候力有未到這個部分我們正在檢討所以我們跟地方政府勞檢機構\n\n13\n00:05:22,645 --> 00:05:42,721\n我們很快要進行預告那麼希望能夠在年底能夠送到行政院然後下會期出下會期來進行來立法院雖然你已經確認你這個是跳票了但是我還是希望你從現在到12月不要再給我們一個很驚人的數字好嗎有些事情現在就可以做了好下一個\n\n14\n00:05:45,796 --> 00:06:03,389\n我們看一下這個是今年9月的新聞相信部長也知道有一個美國醫旅協會他有很多的廠商是我們台灣的廠商嘛大家都知道Nike這一類的好發布了一篇聯合全國全球50個知名服飾很多都在台灣做的\n\n15\n00:06:04,170 --> 00:06:17,525\n那他是不是寄錯對象他居然是寄給經濟部而不是給勞動部他裡面都是提到臺灣的移工呢為了取得工作的機會在母國就要支付高額的仲介費用抵達臺灣以後還要繼續支付\n\n16\n00:06:40,336 --> 00:06:53,662\n所以他在這個信裡面講到都已經涉及我們國際勞工組織提出的強迫勞動指標如果沒有好好的處理我們有可能會受到一些國際大廠的制裁這一點您同意嗎\n\n17\n00:06:55,206 --> 00:06:58,449\n這一點我要跟委員澄清本國沒有強迫勞動那麼我們針對這一個指控我們也發出了新聞稿澄清因為我們也跟經濟部一起會同因為這是這樣這是一個民間組織\n\n18\n00:07:11,819 --> 00:07:13,561\n臺灣現在的移工人權真的是數一數二\n\n19\n00:07:30,094 --> 00:07:47,911\n就是我們你想想看我們在我們的移工一樣是用勞基法場工我們的家事移工我們也要求比如說像招募費方面我們我懂我懂所以我把你的新聞稿叫出來你隔天就緊急發出一個新聞稿你的意思是說\n\n20\n00:07:48,611 --> 00:08:16,098\n包括我國的法令禁止我國仲介向移工收取登記費用也建議外國政府降低外國仲介的費用還有與來源國合作推動職聘制度這是你寫的新聞稿喔我想問說具體你是建議哪幾個外國政府那你的建議他們是否有去做呢因為建議是一回事啊有有有有四個來源國我們都在跟他雙邊協商當中而且菲律賓跟印尼\n\n21\n00:08:18,118 --> 00:08:26,030\n印尼都已經有職聘的我們的雙邊的協商的這樣子的一個好那我們放上次部長說的幫我放一下\n\n22\n00:08:30,717 --> 00:08:49,900\n上次您的執聘是這個意思欸所以我也想知道還是你要續聘的時候才要做這個意思是說真的實務上現在只能先從續聘計畫先做了那因為是這樣公園報告執聘制度是很困難的不容易\n\n23\n00:08:51,241 --> 00:09:14,804\n我指的是印度所以你其他4個來源國你的意思是說你從一開始進來你就願意加強執行那他們的仲介費用你下降了多少比例呢仲介費用我們台灣是不能收的我說你建議外國政府這是你的新聞稿寫的那個是我們會建議來源國你最多就一個月\n\n24\n00:09:15,865 --> 00:09:38,707\n那他有做嗎?因為你有建議他有做嗎?我知道對可是因為你要回應這些國際組織嘛所以我也必須要知道說他有沒有給你回饋嘛是有我們的雙邊國每一位那個代表來拜訪我們或者是我們去跟他們諮商的時候我們都拜託這件事情之後我會繼續追\n\n25\n00:09:40,248 --> 00:09:41,730\n這件事情那這邊也給您一個很具體的建議這是我們國內的一個很大的廠商傳產他是第二代那他被國外的客戶呢視察以後說要跟他斷絕這個合約他本來以為是勞工環境結果是人資這個國外的廠商覺得呢\n\n26\n00:10:14,185 --> 00:10:26,468\n這就是我們要跟經濟部要來加強這方面的合作委員我要跟您澄清其實這個是企業面臨的困境我們應該是就是我是給你具體的建議因為他有他自己的解方他自己的訪談寫得很清楚他說他本來不知道這件事勞動部也沒告訴他後來呢因為他有在國外留學所以他查了一些法規他發現的確違反了\n\n27\n00:10:38,331 --> 00:10:59,360\n所以他後來跟仲介合作所有仲介要收取的費用是他自己來出喔所以每一位移工他總共工廠有600位100位移工他每個人幫他們出兩萬多塊結果變成他跟仲介的關係非常好仲介會派專人來服務跑文件跑流程會帶他們去看病然後他還幫他們蓋宿舍\n\n28\n00:11:18,724 --> 00:11:37,903\n他已經在自救了那既然你已經收到這些外國組織是不是也應該提醒我們國內的廠商不然他的報導裡面是在寫說他一開始被國外廠商批評的時候他根本就不知道這些事情甚至中介還跟他說你就回說有啊你有幫他出這樣就好了\n\n29\n00:11:38,820 --> 00:11:41,922\n對,這就是我們要來加強跟企業宣導的我們現在也是因為這樣子的狀況發生我也跟經濟部拜託就是說這是我們在跨部會之間要來共同合作然後呼籲企業要共同來面對這個問題謝謝,那我也會再繼續追我們也會輔導企業你們跟經濟部有沒有發出具體的公文謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5464\t10906\t主席各位委員各位官員早安那我也想請部長謝謝請何部長部長早部長你們把113年定定為這個營造業墜落打擊年並且呢希望我們的職災死亡人數要低於68人可是光是今年上半年就已經有40位營造的勞工墜落而且致死\n34016\t44082\t半年的時間已經到了你們想要低於數字的六成那因為我就有上半年的數據您會知道到至今9月10月已經有多少人了嗎到9月底66所以距離你們的68所以今年你覺得可能沒有辦法了\n55851\t72785\t我承認確實是有困難那麼我要跟委員報告因為我們營建業他的有很多相關的問題必須要我們要來面對那麼包括我們要推動子彈法的修法也是這個原因他主要是第一個建築工程他現在就是大規模\n73625\t78146\t您的意思是說因為現在的施工比較複雜工程量又很大我先給你看一下110年的時候你們也訂定了一個營造業減災加強年也是想要下降死亡結果跟你們今年的\n101551\t124687\t這個營造業墜落打擊年一樣你只是有一個口號結果呢110年定了這個營造業減災加強年之後啊你看一下這個表的死亡人數定完了以後是越來越高我覺得本席比較難過的是這些人是中壯年他可能是一整個家庭的支柱然後你定了口號\n125427\t143950\t你也定了目標你今天還把自己的目標設在68結果現在已經66人墜落死亡致死所以你110年111 112到底做了哪些事很顯然他沒有很很大的效果啊你現在是要告訴我說\n145712\t155440\t113年你預計要修改哪一些環節而不是跟我描述說這些工程的複雜度有多麼的嚴重然後有多麼的缺工你應該是去從110年開始修改吧\n159401\t176314\t對我跟委員報告我們就是這樣所以我們正在加緊推動自然法的修法我們希望能夠把這一個營造業裡面不當的工程文化啦因為他們大概用承攬嘛用承攬來規避責任然後這個有很尤其是最\n176974\t177534\t一百一十年為什麽你們沒有辦法落實減災加強面\n205174\t233070\t是因為勞工未接受教育訓練者就有37人其中以建築工程的27人為最高都已經告訴你答案了啊是這也是也是相關的問題啊因為你要刻意這一個施工者可是這個你不用等職安法修法你應該就可以做到了對對對現在有在做可是現在有在做顯然還不夠那你有把今年這66位的原因都已經列出來了嗎\n234091\t255524\t我們有在分析當然裡面移工比例也很高所以對尤其是移工他的職災的發生率本來就比較高所以我們現在也在強化移工的這一個關於職安位的這個母語這方面的界面的提供對希望能夠給他一些教育訓練所以你的意思是說之前你們沒有做他的母語的職安\n257005\t273234\t﹚\n273539\t297595\t跟委員報告,其實發生職業災害這些勞工沒有做教育訓練我們有發生這個問題所以我們擴大了營造業的那個愛情教育訓練我們發資安卡訓練合格才讓勞工到現場工作但是台灣很多中小型的微型工程包括是冷氣安裝或是物理安裝都小型微型工程確實我們有時候力有未到這個部分我們正在檢討所以我們跟地方政府勞檢機構\n298916\t321118\t⋯⋯\n322645\t342721\t我們很快要進行預告 那麼希望能夠在年底能夠送到行政院 然後下會期出 下會期來進行來立法院雖然你已經確認你這個是跳票了 但是我還是希望你從現在到12月不要再給我們一個很驚人的數字好嗎 有些事情現在就可以做了好下一個\n345796\t363389\t我們看一下這個是今年9月的新聞相信部長也知道有一個美國醫旅協會他有很多的廠商是我們台灣的廠商嘛大家都知道Nike這一類的好發布了一篇聯合全國全球50個知名服飾很多都在台灣做的\n364170\t377525\t那他是不是寄錯對象他居然是寄給經濟部而不是給勞動部他裡面都是提到臺灣的移工呢為了取得工作的機會在母國就要支付高額的仲介費用抵達臺灣以後還要繼續支付\n379087\t400196\t﹚\n400336\t413662\t所以他在這個信裡面講到都已經涉及我們國際勞工組織提出的強迫勞動指標如果沒有好好的處理我們有可能會受到一些國際大廠的制裁這一點您同意嗎\n415206\t418449\t這一點我要跟委員澄清本國沒有強迫勞動那麼我們針對這一個指控我們也發出了新聞稿澄清因為我們也跟經濟部一起會同因為這是這樣這是一個民間組織\n431819\t433561\t臺灣現在的移工人權真的是數一數二\n450094\t467911\t就是我們你想想看我們在我們的移工一樣是用勞基法場工我們的家事移工我們也要求比如說像招募費方面我們我懂我懂所以我把你的新聞稿叫出來你隔天就緊急發出一個新聞稿你的意思是說\n468611\t496098\t包括我國的法令禁止我國仲介向移工收取登記費用也建議外國政府降低外國仲介的費用還有與來源國合作推動職聘制度這是你寫的新聞稿喔我想問說具體你是建議哪幾個外國政府那你的建議他們是否有去做呢因為建議是一回事啊有有有有四個來源國我們都在跟他雙邊協商當中而且菲律賓跟印尼\n498118\t506030\t印尼都已經有職聘的我們的雙邊的協商的這樣子的一個好那我們放上次部長說的幫我放一下\n510717\t529900\t上次您的執聘是這個意思欸所以我也想知道還是你要續聘的時候才要做這個意思是說真的實務上現在只能先從續聘計畫先做了那因為是這樣公園報告執聘制度是很困難的不容易\n531241\t554804\t我指的是印度所以你其他4個來源國你的意思是說你從一開始進來你就願意加強執行那他們的仲介費用你下降了多少比例呢仲介費用我們台灣是不能收的我說你建議外國政府這是你的新聞稿寫的那個是我們會建議來源國你最多就一個月\n555865\t578707\t那他有做嗎?因為你有建議他有做嗎?我知道對可是因為你要回應這些國際組織嘛所以我也必須要知道說他有沒有給你回饋嘛是有我們的雙邊國每一位那個代表來拜訪我們或者是我們去跟他們諮商的時候我們都拜託這件事情之後我會繼續追\n580248\t581730\t這件事情那這邊也給您一個很具體的建議這是我們國內的一個很大的廠商傳產他是第二代那他被國外的客戶呢視察以後說要跟他斷絕這個合約他本來以為是勞工環境結果是人資這個國外的廠商覺得呢\n599787\t613626\t⋯⋯\n614185\t626468\t這就是我們要跟經濟部要來加強這方面的合作委員我要跟您澄清其實這個是企業面臨的困境我們應該是就是我是給你具體的建議因為他有他自己的解方他自己的訪談寫得很清楚他說他本來不知道這件事勞動部也沒告訴他後來呢因為他有在國外留學所以他查了一些法規他發現的確違反了\n638331\t659360\t所以他後來跟仲介合作所有仲介要收取的費用是他自己來出喔所以每一位移工他總共工廠有600位100位移工他每個人幫他們出兩萬多塊結果變成他跟仲介的關係非常好仲介會派專人來服務跑文件跑流程會帶他們去看病然後他還幫他們蓋宿舍\n660520\t678524\t﹗\n678724\t697903\t他已經在自救了那既然你已經收到這些外國組織是不是也應該提醒我們國內的廠商不然他的報導裡面是在寫說他一開始被國外廠商批評的時候他根本就不知道這些事情甚至中介還跟他說你就回說有啊你有幫他出這樣就好了\n698820\t701922\t對,這就是我們要來加強跟企業宣導的我們現在也是因為這樣子的狀況發生我也跟經濟部拜託就是說這是我們在跨部會之間要來共同合作然後呼籲企業要共同來面對這個問題謝謝,那我也會再繼續追我們也會輔導企業你們跟經濟部有沒有發出具體的公文謝謝\n","txt":"主席各位委員各位官員早安那我也想請部長謝謝請何部長部長早部長你們把113年定定為這個營造業墜落打擊年並且呢希望我們的職災死亡人數要低於68人可是光是今年上半年就已經有40位營造的勞工墜落而且致死\n半年的時間已經到了你們想要低於數字的六成那因為我就有上半年的數據您會知道到至今9月10月已經有多少人了嗎到9月底66所以距離你們的68所以今年你覺得可能沒有辦法了\n我承認確實是有困難那麼我要跟委員報告因為我們營建業他的有很多相關的問題必須要我們要來面對那麼包括我們要推動子彈法的修法也是這個原因他主要是第一個建築工程他現在就是大規模\n您的意思是說因為現在的施工比較複雜工程量又很大我先給你看一下110年的時候你們也訂定了一個營造業減災加強年也是想要下降死亡結果跟你們今年的\n這個營造業墜落打擊年一樣你只是有一個口號結果呢110年定了這個營造業減災加強年之後啊你看一下這個表的死亡人數定完了以後是越來越高我覺得本席比較難過的是這些人是中壯年他可能是一整個家庭的支柱然後你定了口號\n你也定了目標你今天還把自己的目標設在68結果現在已經66人墜落死亡致死所以你110年111 112到底做了哪些事很顯然他沒有很很大的效果啊你現在是要告訴我說\n113年你預計要修改哪一些環節而不是跟我描述說這些工程的複雜度有多麼的嚴重然後有多麼的缺工你應該是去從110年開始修改吧\n對我跟委員報告我們就是這樣所以我們正在加緊推動自然法的修法我們希望能夠把這一個營造業裡面不當的工程文化啦因為他們大概用承攬嘛用承攬來規避責任然後這個有很尤其是最\n一百一十年為什麽你們沒有辦法落實減災加強面\n是因為勞工未接受教育訓練者就有37人其中以建築工程的27人為最高都已經告訴你答案了啊是這也是也是相關的問題啊因為你要刻意這一個施工者可是這個你不用等職安法修法你應該就可以做到了對對對現在有在做可是現在有在做顯然還不夠那你有把今年這66位的原因都已經列出來了嗎\n我們有在分析當然裡面移工比例也很高所以對尤其是移工他的職災的發生率本來就比較高所以我們現在也在強化移工的這一個關於職安位的這個母語這方面的界面的提供對希望能夠給他一些教育訓練所以你的意思是說之前你們沒有做他的母語的職安\n﹚\n跟委員報告,其實發生職業災害這些勞工沒有做教育訓練我們有發生這個問題所以我們擴大了營造業的那個愛情教育訓練我們發資安卡訓練合格才讓勞工到現場工作但是台灣很多中小型的微型工程包括是冷氣安裝或是物理安裝都小型微型工程確實我們有時候力有未到這個部分我們正在檢討所以我們跟地方政府勞檢機構\n⋯⋯\n我們很快要進行預告 那麼希望能夠在年底能夠送到行政院 然後下會期出 下會期來進行來立法院雖然你已經確認你這個是跳票了 但是我還是希望你從現在到12月不要再給我們一個很驚人的數字好嗎 有些事情現在就可以做了好下一個\n我們看一下這個是今年9月的新聞相信部長也知道有一個美國醫旅協會他有很多的廠商是我們台灣的廠商嘛大家都知道Nike這一類的好發布了一篇聯合全國全球50個知名服飾很多都在台灣做的\n那他是不是寄錯對象他居然是寄給經濟部而不是給勞動部他裡面都是提到臺灣的移工呢為了取得工作的機會在母國就要支付高額的仲介費用抵達臺灣以後還要繼續支付\n﹚\n所以他在這個信裡面講到都已經涉及我們國際勞工組織提出的強迫勞動指標如果沒有好好的處理我們有可能會受到一些國際大廠的制裁這一點您同意嗎\n這一點我要跟委員澄清本國沒有強迫勞動那麼我們針對這一個指控我們也發出了新聞稿澄清因為我們也跟經濟部一起會同因為這是這樣這是一個民間組織\n臺灣現在的移工人權真的是數一數二\n就是我們你想想看我們在我們的移工一樣是用勞基法場工我們的家事移工我們也要求比如說像招募費方面我們我懂我懂所以我把你的新聞稿叫出來你隔天就緊急發出一個新聞稿你的意思是說\n包括我國的法令禁止我國仲介向移工收取登記費用也建議外國政府降低外國仲介的費用還有與來源國合作推動職聘制度這是你寫的新聞稿喔我想問說具體你是建議哪幾個外國政府那你的建議他們是否有去做呢因為建議是一回事啊有有有有四個來源國我們都在跟他雙邊協商當中而且菲律賓跟印尼\n印尼都已經有職聘的我們的雙邊的協商的這樣子的一個好那我們放上次部長說的幫我放一下\n上次您的執聘是這個意思欸所以我也想知道還是你要續聘的時候才要做這個意思是說真的實務上現在只能先從續聘計畫先做了那因為是這樣公園報告執聘制度是很困難的不容易\n我指的是印度所以你其他4個來源國你的意思是說你從一開始進來你就願意加強執行那他們的仲介費用你下降了多少比例呢仲介費用我們台灣是不能收的我說你建議外國政府這是你的新聞稿寫的那個是我們會建議來源國你最多就一個月\n那他有做嗎?因為你有建議他有做嗎?我知道對可是因為你要回應這些國際組織嘛所以我也必須要知道說他有沒有給你回饋嘛是有我們的雙邊國每一位那個代表來拜訪我們或者是我們去跟他們諮商的時候我們都拜託這件事情之後我會繼續追\n這件事情那這邊也給您一個很具體的建議這是我們國內的一個很大的廠商傳產他是第二代那他被國外的客戶呢視察以後說要跟他斷絕這個合約他本來以為是勞工環境結果是人資這個國外的廠商覺得呢\n⋯⋯\n這就是我們要跟經濟部要來加強這方面的合作委員我要跟您澄清其實這個是企業面臨的困境我們應該是就是我是給你具體的建議因為他有他自己的解方他自己的訪談寫得很清楚他說他本來不知道這件事勞動部也沒告訴他後來呢因為他有在國外留學所以他查了一些法規他發現的確違反了\n所以他後來跟仲介合作所有仲介要收取的費用是他自己來出喔所以每一位移工他總共工廠有600位100位移工他每個人幫他們出兩萬多塊結果變成他跟仲介的關係非常好仲介會派專人來服務跑文件跑流程會帶他們去看病然後他還幫他們蓋宿舍\n﹗\n他已經在自救了那既然你已經收到這些外國組織是不是也應該提醒我們國內的廠商不然他的報導裡面是在寫說他一開始被國外廠商批評的時候他根本就不知道這些事情甚至中介還跟他說你就回說有啊你有幫他出這樣就好了\n對,這就是我們要來加強跟企業宣導的我們現在也是因為這樣子的狀況發生我也跟經濟部拜託就是說這是我們在跨部會之間要來共同合作然後呼籲企業要共同來面對這個問題謝謝,那我也會再繼續追我們也會輔導企業你們跟經濟部有沒有發出具體的公文謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.464 --> 00:10.906\n主席各位委員各位官員早安那我也想請部長謝謝請何部長部長早部長你們把113年定定為這個營造業墜落打擊年並且呢希望我們的職災死亡人數要低於68人可是光是今年上半年就已經有40位營造的勞工墜落而且致死\n\n00:34.016 --> 00:44.082\n半年的時間已經到了你們想要低於數字的六成那因為我就有上半年的數據您會知道到至今9月10月已經有多少人了嗎到9月底66所以距離你們的68所以今年你覺得可能沒有辦法了\n\n00:55.851 --> 01:12.785\n我承認確實是有困難那麼我要跟委員報告因為我們營建業他的有很多相關的問題必須要我們要來面對那麼包括我們要推動子彈法的修法也是這個原因他主要是第一個建築工程他現在就是大規模\n\n01:13.625 --> 01:18.146\n您的意思是說因為現在的施工比較複雜工程量又很大我先給你看一下110年的時候你們也訂定了一個營造業減災加強年也是想要下降死亡結果跟你們今年的\n\n01:41.551 --> 02:04.687\n這個營造業墜落打擊年一樣你只是有一個口號結果呢110年定了這個營造業減災加強年之後啊你看一下這個表的死亡人數定完了以後是越來越高我覺得本席比較難過的是這些人是中壯年他可能是一整個家庭的支柱然後你定了口號\n\n02:05.427 --> 02:23.950\n你也定了目標你今天還把自己的目標設在68結果現在已經66人墜落死亡致死所以你110年111112到底做了哪些事很顯然他沒有很很大的效果啊你現在是要告訴我說\n\n02:25.712 --> 02:35.440\n113年你預計要修改哪一些環節而不是跟我描述說這些工程的複雜度有多麼的嚴重然後有多麼的缺工你應該是去從110年開始修改吧\n\n02:39.401 --> 02:56.314\n對我跟委員報告我們就是這樣所以我們正在加緊推動自然法的修法我們希望能夠把這一個營造業裡面不當的工程文化啦因為他們大概用承攬嘛用承攬來規避責任然後這個有很尤其是最\n\n02:56.974 --> 02:57.534\n一百一十年為什麽你們沒有辦法落實減災加強面\n\n03:25.174 --> 03:53.070\n是因為勞工未接受教育訓練者就有37人其中以建築工程的27人為最高都已經告訴你答案了啊是這也是也是相關的問題啊因為你要刻意這一個施工者可是這個你不用等職安法修法你應該就可以做到了對對對現在有在做可是現在有在做顯然還不夠那你有把今年這66位的原因都已經列出來了嗎\n\n03:54.091 --> 04:15.524\n我們有在分析當然裡面移工比例也很高所以對尤其是移工他的職災的發生率本來就比較高所以我們現在也在強化移工的這一個關於職安位的這個母語這方面的界面的提供對希望能夠給他一些教育訓練所以你的意思是說之前你們沒有做他的母語的職安\n\n04:33.539 --> 04:57.595\n跟委員報告,其實發生職業災害這些勞工沒有做教育訓練我們有發生這個問題所以我們擴大了營造業的那個愛情教育訓練我們發資安卡訓練合格才讓勞工到現場工作但是台灣很多中小型的微型工程包括是冷氣安裝或是物理安裝都小型微型工程確實我們有時候力有未到這個部分我們正在檢討所以我們跟地方政府勞檢機構\n\n05:22.645 --> 05:42.721\n我們很快要進行預告那麼希望能夠在年底能夠送到行政院然後下會期出下會期來進行來立法院雖然你已經確認你這個是跳票了但是我還是希望你從現在到12月不要再給我們一個很驚人的數字好嗎有些事情現在就可以做了好下一個\n\n05:45.796 --> 06:03.389\n我們看一下這個是今年9月的新聞相信部長也知道有一個美國醫旅協會他有很多的廠商是我們台灣的廠商嘛大家都知道Nike這一類的好發布了一篇聯合全國全球50個知名服飾很多都在台灣做的\n\n06:04.170 --> 06:17.525\n那他是不是寄錯對象他居然是寄給經濟部而不是給勞動部他裡面都是提到臺灣的移工呢為了取得工作的機會在母國就要支付高額的仲介費用抵達臺灣以後還要繼續支付\n\n06:40.336 --> 06:53.662\n所以他在這個信裡面講到都已經涉及我們國際勞工組織提出的強迫勞動指標如果沒有好好的處理我們有可能會受到一些國際大廠的制裁這一點您同意嗎\n\n06:55.206 --> 06:58.449\n這一點我要跟委員澄清本國沒有強迫勞動那麼我們針對這一個指控我們也發出了新聞稿澄清因為我們也跟經濟部一起會同因為這是這樣這是一個民間組織\n\n07:11.819 --> 07:13.561\n臺灣現在的移工人權真的是數一數二\n\n07:30.094 --> 07:47.911\n就是我們你想想看我們在我們的移工一樣是用勞基法場工我們的家事移工我們也要求比如說像招募費方面我們我懂我懂所以我把你的新聞稿叫出來你隔天就緊急發出一個新聞稿你的意思是說\n\n07:48.611 --> 08:16.098\n包括我國的法令禁止我國仲介向移工收取登記費用也建議外國政府降低外國仲介的費用還有與來源國合作推動職聘制度這是你寫的新聞稿喔我想問說具體你是建議哪幾個外國政府那你的建議他們是否有去做呢因為建議是一回事啊有有有有四個來源國我們都在跟他雙邊協商當中而且菲律賓跟印尼\n\n08:18.118 --> 08:26.030\n印尼都已經有職聘的我們的雙邊的協商的這樣子的一個好那我們放上次部長說的幫我放一下\n\n08:30.717 --> 08:49.900\n上次您的執聘是這個意思欸所以我也想知道還是你要續聘的時候才要做這個意思是說真的實務上現在只能先從續聘計畫先做了那因為是這樣公園報告執聘制度是很困難的不容易\n\n08:51.241 --> 09:14.804\n我指的是印度所以你其他4個來源國你的意思是說你從一開始進來你就願意加強執行那他們的仲介費用你下降了多少比例呢仲介費用我們台灣是不能收的我說你建議外國政府這是你的新聞稿寫的那個是我們會建議來源國你最多就一個月\n\n09:15.865 --> 09:38.707\n那他有做嗎?因為你有建議他有做嗎?我知道對可是因為你要回應這些國際組織嘛所以我也必須要知道說他有沒有給你回饋嘛是有我們的雙邊國每一位那個代表來拜訪我們或者是我們去跟他們諮商的時候我們都拜託這件事情之後我會繼續追\n\n09:40.248 --> 09:41.730\n這件事情那這邊也給您一個很具體的建議這是我們國內的一個很大的廠商傳產他是第二代那他被國外的客戶呢視察以後說要跟他斷絕這個合約他本來以為是勞工環境結果是人資這個國外的廠商覺得呢\n\n10:14.185 --> 10:26.468\n這就是我們要跟經濟部要來加強這方面的合作委員我要跟您澄清其實這個是企業面臨的困境我們應該是就是我是給你具體的建議因為他有他自己的解方他自己的訪談寫得很清楚他說他本來不知道這件事勞動部也沒告訴他後來呢因為他有在國外留學所以他查了一些法規他發現的確違反了\n\n10:38.331 --> 10:59.360\n所以他後來跟仲介合作所有仲介要收取的費用是他自己來出喔所以每一位移工他總共工廠有600位100位移工他每個人幫他們出兩萬多塊結果變成他跟仲介的關係非常好仲介會派專人來服務跑文件跑流程會帶他們去看病然後他還幫他們蓋宿舍\n\n11:18.724 --> 11:37.903\n他已經在自救了那既然你已經收到這些外國組織是不是也應該提醒我們國內的廠商不然他的報導裡面是在寫說他一開始被國外廠商批評的時候他根本就不知道這些事情甚至中介還跟他說你就回說有啊你有幫他出這樣就好了\n\n11:38.820 --> 11:41.922\n對,這就是我們要來加強跟企業宣導的我們現在也是因為這樣子的狀況發生我也跟經濟部拜託就是說這是我們在跨部會之間要來共同合作然後呼籲企業要共同來面對這個問題謝謝,那我也會再繼續追我們也會輔導企業你們跟經濟部有沒有發出具體的公文謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.464,"end":10.906,"text":"主席各位委員各位官員早安那我也想請部長謝謝請何部長部長早部長你們把113年定定為這個營造業墜落打擊年並且呢希望我們的職災死亡人數要低於68人可是光是今年上半年就已經有40位營造的勞工墜落而且致死"},{"start":34.016,"end":44.082,"text":"半年的時間已經到了你們想要低於數字的六成那因為我就有上半年的數據您會知道到至今9月10月已經有多少人了嗎到9月底66所以距離你們的68所以今年你覺得可能沒有辦法了"},{"start":55.851,"end":72.785,"text":"我承認確實是有困難那麼我要跟委員報告因為我們營建業他的有很多相關的問題必須要我們要來面對那麼包括我們要推動子彈法的修法也是這個原因他主要是第一個建築工程他現在就是大規模"},{"start":73.625,"end":78.146,"text":"您的意思是說因為現在的施工比較複雜工程量又很大我先給你看一下110年的時候你們也訂定了一個營造業減災加強年也是想要下降死亡結果跟你們今年的"},{"start":101.551,"end":124.687,"text":"這個營造業墜落打擊年一樣你只是有一個口號結果呢110年定了這個營造業減災加強年之後啊你看一下這個表的死亡人數定完了以後是越來越高我覺得本席比較難過的是這些人是中壯年他可能是一整個家庭的支柱然後你定了口號"},{"start":125.427,"end":143.95,"text":"你也定了目標你今天還把自己的目標設在68結果現在已經66人墜落死亡致死所以你110年111 112到底做了哪些事很顯然他沒有很很大的效果啊你現在是要告訴我說"},{"start":145.712,"end":155.44,"text":"113年你預計要修改哪一些環節而不是跟我描述說這些工程的複雜度有多麼的嚴重然後有多麼的缺工你應該是去從110年開始修改吧"},{"start":159.401,"end":176.314,"text":"對我跟委員報告我們就是這樣所以我們正在加緊推動自然法的修法我們希望能夠把這一個營造業裡面不當的工程文化啦因為他們大概用承攬嘛用承攬來規避責任然後這個有很尤其是最"},{"start":176.974,"end":177.534,"text":"一百一十年為什麽你們沒有辦法落實減災加強面"},{"start":205.174,"end":233.07,"text":"是因為勞工未接受教育訓練者就有37人其中以建築工程的27人為最高都已經告訴你答案了啊是這也是也是相關的問題啊因為你要刻意這一個施工者可是這個你不用等職安法修法你應該就可以做到了對對對現在有在做可是現在有在做顯然還不夠那你有把今年這66位的原因都已經列出來了嗎"},{"start":234.091,"end":255.524,"text":"我們有在分析當然裡面移工比例也很高所以對尤其是移工他的職災的發生率本來就比較高所以我們現在也在強化移工的這一個關於職安位的這個母語這方面的界面的提供對希望能夠給他一些教育訓練所以你的意思是說之前你們沒有做他的母語的職安"},{"start":257.005,"end":273.234,"text":"﹚"},{"start":273.539,"end":297.595,"text":"跟委員報告,其實發生職業災害這些勞工沒有做教育訓練我們有發生這個問題所以我們擴大了營造業的那個愛情教育訓練我們發資安卡訓練合格才讓勞工到現場工作但是台灣很多中小型的微型工程包括是冷氣安裝或是物理安裝都小型微型工程確實我們有時候力有未到這個部分我們正在檢討所以我們跟地方政府勞檢機構"},{"start":298.916,"end":321.118,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":322.645,"end":342.721,"text":"我們很快要進行預告 那麼希望能夠在年底能夠送到行政院 然後下會期出 下會期來進行來立法院雖然你已經確認你這個是跳票了 但是我還是希望你從現在到12月不要再給我們一個很驚人的數字好嗎 有些事情現在就可以做了好下一個"},{"start":345.796,"end":363.389,"text":"我們看一下這個是今年9月的新聞相信部長也知道有一個美國醫旅協會他有很多的廠商是我們台灣的廠商嘛大家都知道Nike這一類的好發布了一篇聯合全國全球50個知名服飾很多都在台灣做的"},{"start":364.17,"end":377.525,"text":"那他是不是寄錯對象他居然是寄給經濟部而不是給勞動部他裡面都是提到臺灣的移工呢為了取得工作的機會在母國就要支付高額的仲介費用抵達臺灣以後還要繼續支付"},{"start":379.087,"end":400.196,"text":"﹚"},{"start":400.336,"end":413.662,"text":"所以他在這個信裡面講到都已經涉及我們國際勞工組織提出的強迫勞動指標如果沒有好好的處理我們有可能會受到一些國際大廠的制裁這一點您同意嗎"},{"start":415.206,"end":418.449,"text":"這一點我要跟委員澄清本國沒有強迫勞動那麼我們針對這一個指控我們也發出了新聞稿澄清因為我們也跟經濟部一起會同因為這是這樣這是一個民間組織"},{"start":431.819,"end":433.561,"text":"臺灣現在的移工人權真的是數一數二"},{"start":450.094,"end":467.911,"text":"就是我們你想想看我們在我們的移工一樣是用勞基法場工我們的家事移工我們也要求比如說像招募費方面我們我懂我懂所以我把你的新聞稿叫出來你隔天就緊急發出一個新聞稿你的意思是說"},{"start":468.611,"end":496.098,"text":"包括我國的法令禁止我國仲介向移工收取登記費用也建議外國政府降低外國仲介的費用還有與來源國合作推動職聘制度這是你寫的新聞稿喔我想問說具體你是建議哪幾個外國政府那你的建議他們是否有去做呢因為建議是一回事啊有有有有四個來源國我們都在跟他雙邊協商當中而且菲律賓跟印尼"},{"start":498.118,"end":506.03,"text":"印尼都已經有職聘的我們的雙邊的協商的這樣子的一個好那我們放上次部長說的幫我放一下"},{"start":510.717,"end":529.9,"text":"上次您的執聘是這個意思欸所以我也想知道還是你要續聘的時候才要做這個意思是說真的實務上現在只能先從續聘計畫先做了那因為是這樣公園報告執聘制度是很困難的不容易"},{"start":531.241,"end":554.804,"text":"我指的是印度所以你其他4個來源國你的意思是說你從一開始進來你就願意加強執行那他們的仲介費用你下降了多少比例呢仲介費用我們台灣是不能收的我說你建議外國政府這是你的新聞稿寫的那個是我們會建議來源國你最多就一個月"},{"start":555.865,"end":578.707,"text":"那他有做嗎?因為你有建議他有做嗎?我知道對可是因為你要回應這些國際組織嘛所以我也必須要知道說他有沒有給你回饋嘛是有我們的雙邊國每一位那個代表來拜訪我們或者是我們去跟他們諮商的時候我們都拜託這件事情之後我會繼續追"},{"start":580.248,"end":581.73,"text":"這件事情那這邊也給您一個很具體的建議這是我們國內的一個很大的廠商傳產他是第二代那他被國外的客戶呢視察以後說要跟他斷絕這個合約他本來以為是勞工環境結果是人資這個國外的廠商覺得呢"},{"start":599.787,"end":613.626,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":614.185,"end":626.468,"text":"這就是我們要跟經濟部要來加強這方面的合作委員我要跟您澄清其實這個是企業面臨的困境我們應該是就是我是給你具體的建議因為他有他自己的解方他自己的訪談寫得很清楚他說他本來不知道這件事勞動部也沒告訴他後來呢因為他有在國外留學所以他查了一些法規他發現的確違反了"},{"start":638.331,"end":659.36,"text":"所以他後來跟仲介合作所有仲介要收取的費用是他自己來出喔所以每一位移工他總共工廠有600位100位移工他每個人幫他們出兩萬多塊結果變成他跟仲介的關係非常好仲介會派專人來服務跑文件跑流程會帶他們去看病然後他還幫他們蓋宿舍"},{"start":660.52,"end":678.524,"text":"﹗"},{"start":678.724,"end":697.903,"text":"他已經在自救了那既然你已經收到這些外國組織是不是也應該提醒我們國內的廠商不然他的報導裡面是在寫說他一開始被國外廠商批評的時候他根本就不知道這些事情甚至中介還跟他說你就回說有啊你有幫他出這樣就好了"},{"start":698.82,"end":701.922,"text":"對,這就是我們要來加強跟企業宣導的我們現在也是因為這樣子的狀況發生我也跟經濟部拜託就是說這是我們在跨部會之間要來共同合作然後呼籲企業要共同來面對這個問題謝謝,那我也會再繼續追我們也會輔導企業你們跟經濟部有沒有發出具體的公文謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:33:43 - 09:45:47","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155502,"gazette":{"lineno":316,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時33分）主席、各位委員、各位官員早安，我也想請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長早。部長，你們把113年訂定為營造業墜落打擊年，並且希望我們的職災死亡人數要低於68人，可是光是今年上半年就已經有40位營造業的勞工墜落而且致死，半年的時間已經到了，你們想要低於數字的六成，因為我只有上半年的數據，您會知道至今9月、10月已經有多少人了嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：到9月底是66人。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以距離你們的68人……"],["何部長佩珊：確實。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以您覺得今年可能沒有辦法了？"],["何部長佩珊：我承認，確實是有困難，我要跟委員報告，因為營建業有很多相關的問題需要我們來面對，包括我們要推動職安法的修法也是這個原因，主要是第一個，建築工程現在就是大規模、高樓層，又深開挖，那麼它的本質，它的工程的危害度就會提高，然後它的那個媒介物，它是用施工架開口跟屋頂……"],["陳委員菁徽：我懂，我想您的意思是說，因為現在的施工比較複雜，工程量又很大。"],["何部長佩珊：對、對。"],["陳委員菁徽：我先給你看一下，110年的時候你們也訂定了一個營造業減災加強年，也是想要下降死亡人數，結果跟你們今年的營造業墜落打擊年一樣，只是有一個口號，結果110年訂了營造業減災加強年之後，你看一下這個表格的死亡人數，訂完了以後是越來越高。本席覺得比較難過的是，這些人是中壯年，他可能是一整個家庭的支柱，然後你訂了口號，也訂了目標，你今年還把自己的目標設在68人，結果現在已經66人墜落死亡、致死，所以你110年、111年、112年到底做了哪些事？很顯然它沒有很大的效果啊！你現在應該是要告訴我，113年你預計要修改哪一些環節，而不是跟我描述，說這些工程的複雜度有多麼嚴重，然後有多麼缺工，你應該是從110年去開始修改嘛。"],["何部長佩珊：對，我跟委員報告，就是這樣，所以我們正在加緊推動職安法的修法，我們希望能夠把營造業裡面這種不當的工程文化，因為他們大概用承攬嘛，用承攬來規避責任，尤其是發包的業主他本身也要承擔相關的責任。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你的意思是說，他們有做教育訓練，教育訓練的時數也符合你們的規定，還是你們有去督導嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：其實那一些措施、檢查，各方面我們能做的都有在執行，問題是這牽涉到它的……"],["陳委員菁徽：好，那我跟您說一個數據，後來你們去調查110年為什麼你們沒有辦法落實減災加強年，是因為勞工未接受教育訓練者就有37人，其中以建築工程的27人為最高，都已經告訴你答案啦！"],["何部長佩珊：是，這也是相關的問題啊，因為你要課以這一個施工者他的責任……"],["陳委員菁徽：可是這個你不用等職安法修法，你應該就可以做到吧？"],["何部長佩珊：對、對、對，現在有在做，可是現在有在做顯然還不夠。"],["陳委員菁徽：那你有把今年這66位的原因都列出來了嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我們有在分析，當然裡面移工比例也很高。"],["陳委員菁徽：對。"],["何部長佩珊：尤其是移工，他的職災發生率本來就比較高，所以我們現在也在強化移工關於職安衛的母語，這方面介面的提供，希望能夠給他一些教育訓練。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你的意思是說之前你們沒有做他的母語，關於職安……"],["何部長佩珊：有、有、有，前面就有做，前面就有做，只是……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你現在是？"],["何部長佩珊：現在還要再更強化。顯然在這方面，因為大概我們今年分析了一下移工跟一般勞工的比例，大概是8比5這樣的狀況。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以這66位有八成是移工？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，關於您剛才垂詢的問題，其實發生職業災害的這些勞工沒有做教育訓練，我們有發現這個問題，所以我們擴大了營造業的安全教育訓練，我們發職安卡，訓練合格才讓勞工到現場工作。但是臺灣有很多中小型的微型工程，包括冷氣安裝或是屋頂安裝，都是小型微型工程，確實我們有時候會力有未逮，這個部分我們正在檢討。所以我們跟地方政府的勞檢機構，以及跟地方的營造相關的團體，也有做一些合作，有全面的展開。無論如何，我們現在希望透過未來的修法，把雇主的教育訓練責任也加強，雇主就承攬人的管理、仲介強度也要再做強化，要不然只有最後一包承擔職業災害責任是不足的。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，那我想問一下，你們這個職安法什麼時候要送來？"],["何部長佩珊：我們很快就要進行預告，希望能夠在年底送到行政院，然後下會期送進來立法院。"],["陳委員菁徽：雖然你已經確認你這個是跳票了，但是我還是希望你從現在到12月，不要再給我們一個很驚人的數字，好嗎？有些事情是現在就可以做的。"],["何部長佩珊：是，我們當然盡全力來防止。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。我們看一下下一個，這個是今年9月的新聞，相信部長也知道，有一個美國衣履協會，它有很多的廠商是我們臺灣的廠商，例如大家都知道的Nike、這一類的，他們發布了一篇聯合全球50個知名服飾，很多都是在臺灣做的，但它是不是寄錯對象？它居然是寄給經濟部，而不是給勞動部，它裡面都是提到臺灣的移工為了取得工作的機會，在母國就要支付高額的仲介費用，抵達臺灣以後還要繼續支付服務費等等，這些沉重的債務，讓他們沒有辦法在勞動環境中發聲，包括行動受限，或是他們的文件被扣押、超時加班，以及因提出申訴、抱怨工作環境差、參與集會、懷孕或試圖轉換雇主而遭到遣返等等的。所以在這個信裡面講到的都已經涉及國際勞工組織提出的強迫勞動指標，如果沒有好好地處理，我們有可能會受到一些國際大廠的制裁，這點您同意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：這點我要跟委員澄清，本國沒有強迫勞動！針對這個指控，我們也發出了新聞稿澄清……"],["陳委員菁徽：抗議？"],["何部長佩珊：對，我們也跟經濟部一起會同。因為是這樣，這是一個民間組織，它的查核跟它的認定有沒有一個公開、公平的標準？目前我們看起來其實不確定性是很高的。也跟委員報告，我們臺灣現在的移工人權真的是數一數二，你想想看，我們的移工一樣適用勞基法（廠工的部分），而家事移工的部分我們也要求，比如說像招募費方面……"],["陳委員菁徽：我懂、我懂，所以我把您的新聞稿調出來，你隔天就緊急發出一個新聞稿，你的意思是說，包含我國的法令禁止我國仲介向移工收取登記費用，也建議外國政府降低外國仲介的費用，還有與來源國合作推動直聘制度，這是你寫的新聞稿。我想問，具體你是建議哪幾個外國政府？你的建議他們是否有去做呢？因為建議是一回事啊！"],["何部長佩珊：有，四個來源國我們都在跟他們雙邊協商當中，而且菲律賓跟印尼都已經有直聘的相關雙邊協商在進行。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我們放上次部長說的，麻煩幫我放一下。上次您的直聘是這個意思，所以我也想知道……","（播放影片）"],["何部長佩珊：我指的是印度。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以其他四個來源國，你的意思是說……"],["何部長佩珊：現在都在推。"],["陳委員菁徽：你的意思是說從一開始進來，你就願意加強直聘？"],["何部長佩珊：有。"],["陳委員菁徽：他們的仲介費用你下降了多少比例呢？"],["何部長佩珊：仲介費用我們臺灣是不能收的。"],["陳委員菁徽：我說你建議外國政府，這是你的新聞稿寫的。"],["何部長佩珊：那是我們會建議來源國最多就一個月。"],["陳委員菁徽：那它有做嗎？因為你有建議，它有做嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，來源國不是我能百分百去控管的。"],["陳委員菁徽：我知道，可是你要回應這些國際組織嘛！"],["何部長佩珊：有啊，我用新聞稿回應。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以我也必須要知道它有沒有給你回饋。"],["何部長佩珊：有，我們的雙邊國每一位代表來拜訪我們，或是我們去跟他們諮商的時候，我們都拜託這件事。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，之後我會繼續追這件事情。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：這邊也給你一個很具體的建議，這是我們國內一個很大的廠商，傳產，他是第二代，他被國外的客戶視察以後，說要跟他斷絕合約，他本來以為是勞工環境，結果是人資，這個國外的廠商覺得我們每個月還有跟這些移工收費是不合理的，比如說你收到這個全球衣履，你有沒有發公文去給我們所有臺灣的這些衣服相關的廠商，有嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：這就是我們要跟經濟部來加強這方面的合作……"],["陳委員菁徽：還沒做嘛！還沒做。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我要跟您澄清，其實這個是企業面臨的困境，我們應該是……"],["陳委員菁徽：我是給你具體的建議，因為他有他自己的解方，他自己的訪談寫得很清楚，他說他本來不知道這件事，勞動部也沒告訴他，而因為他有在國外留學，所以他查了一些法規，他發現的確違反了，所以他後來跟仲介合作，所有仲介要收取的費用是他自己來出，他的工廠總共有600位，100位移工，他幫他們每個人出兩萬多塊，結果變成他跟仲介的關係非常好，仲介會派專人來服務，跑文件、跑流程，還會帶他們去看病，然後他也幫他們蓋宿舍，結果續約率從原本的25%增加到75%，他的管理成本也大幅下降，因為他不用一直換人，因為他這樣做，也增加了在美國之外，有很多歐洲廠商開始跟他簽訂單。所以他已經在自救了，既然你已經收到這些外國組織的提醒，是不是也應該提醒我們國內廠商，不然報導裡面是寫說他一開始被國外廠商批評的時候，他根本就不知道有這些事情，甚至仲介還跟他說：你就回說有啊，你有幫他出，這樣就好了。"],["何部長佩珊：對，這就是我們要來加強跟企業宣導的，我們現在也是因為這樣的狀況發生，我也跟經濟部拜託，就是說這是我們跨部會之間要來共同合作，呼籲企業要共同來面對這個問題，我們也會輔導企業。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝，我也會再繼續追，看你們跟經濟部有沒有發出具體的公文。謝謝。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝。"],["主席（林委員月琴代）：接下來請王育敏委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}}