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422.63, \"end\": 423.831, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 423.831, \"end\": 424.971, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 424.971, \"end\": 426.552, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 426.552, \"end\": 426.752, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"融\", \"start\": 426.752, \"end\": 427.152, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 427.152, \"end\": 427.292, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 427.292, \"end\": 427.412, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 427.412, \"end\": 427.612, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 427.612, \"end\": 427.772, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 427.772, \"end\": 427.912, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 427.912, \"end\": 428.093, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 428.093, \"end\": 428.193, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": 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\"所以我要問我們公股銀行在中國的曝險這些年的狀況怎麼樣?公股銀行在今年的曝險金額是1666億大概是9%淨值比率是9%所以已經逐年下降110年是有3700億所以已經下降了那這個部分我們也請公股行庫要加強風險調整的一個控管的機制那有沒有重大的預期\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 433.905, \"end\": 434.085, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 434.085, \"end\": 434.285, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 434.285, \"end\": 434.425, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 434.425, \"end\": 434.565, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 434.565, \"end\": 436.267, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 436.267, \"end\": 436.607, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"股\", \"start\": 436.607, \"end\": 437.027, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 437.027, \"end\": 437.247, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 437.247, \"end\": 437.427, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 437.427, \"end\": 437.547, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 437.547, 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{\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 442.371, \"end\": 442.391, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 442.391, \"end\": 442.411, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 442.411, \"end\": 442.491, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 442.491, \"end\": 442.511, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 442.511, \"end\": 442.591, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 442.591, \"end\": 442.631, \"score\": 0.407}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 442.631, \"end\": 442.711, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 442.711, \"end\": 442.771, \"score\": 0.313}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 442.771, \"end\": 442.911, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 442.911, \"end\": 443.091, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"股\", \"start\": 443.091, \"end\": 443.451, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 443.451, \"end\": 443.632, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 443.632, \"end\": 443.652, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 443.652, \"end\": 443.752, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 443.752, \"end\": 443.912, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 443.912, \"end\": 444.052, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 444.052, \"end\": 444.192, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"控\", \"start\": 444.192, \"end\": 444.252, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 444.252, \"end\": 444.472, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 444.472, \"end\": 444.612, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 444.612, \"end\": 444.792, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 444.792, \"end\": 445.032, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 445.032, \"end\": 445.052, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 445.052, \"end\": 445.153, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 445.153, \"end\": 445.173, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 445.173, \"end\": 445.193, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 445.193, \"end\": 445.253, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 445.253, \"end\": 445.433, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 445.433, \"end\": 445.453, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 470.891, \"end\": 480.819, \"text\": \"由於在這個這幾年來在中國大陸這個部分而我們的公股行庫在承作上其實已經一直在緊縮所以並沒有目前為止並沒有一個重大的一個預期違約案\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 470.891, \"end\": 471.171, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 471.171, \"end\": 471.431, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 471.431, \"end\": 472.232, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 472.232, \"end\": 472.672, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 472.672, \"end\": 472.873, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 472.873, \"end\": 473.173, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 473.173, \"end\": 473.713, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 473.713, \"end\": 473.873, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 473.873, \"end\": 474.094, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 474.094, \"end\": 474.214, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 474.214, \"end\": 474.374, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 474.374, \"end\": 474.474, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 474.474, \"end\": 474.654, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"股\", \"start\": 474.654, \"end\": 474.754, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 474.754, \"end\": 475.114, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 475.114, \"end\": 475.275, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"承\", \"start\": 475.275, \"end\": 475.475, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 475.475, \"end\": 475.635, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 475.635, \"end\": 475.875, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 475.875, \"end\": 476.175, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 476.175, \"end\": 476.436, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 476.436, \"end\": 476.536, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 476.536, \"end\": 476.656, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 476.656, \"end\": 477.116, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 477.116, \"end\": 477.576, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 477.576, \"end\": 477.717, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 477.717, \"end\": 477.857, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 477.857, \"end\": 478.437, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 478.437, \"end\": 478.557, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 478.557, \"end\": 478.858, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 478.858, \"end\": 479.198, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 479.198, \"end\": 479.358, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 479.358, \"end\": 479.538, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 479.538, \"end\": 479.758, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 479.758, \"end\": 479.958, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 479.958, \"end\": 480.179, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 480.179, \"end\": 480.319, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 480.319, \"end\": 480.459, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 480.459, \"end\": 480.799, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 480.799, \"end\": 480.819, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 481.94, \"end\": 500.756, \"text\": \"所以目前沒有齁?沒有中大的預期好那我再請問把香港跟中國過去是不同的看法但是香港越來越成為中國內陸的一個城市喔是那我們對香港不同的做法各家公股銀行在香港都有一些分支機構未來你要怎麼處理?這個部分我們也請我們公股行庫對香港地區也要調降這個他們的風險額度並且要監控這個曝險的部位\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 481.94, \"end\": 482.04, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 482.04, \"end\": 482.12, \"score\": 0.606}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 482.12, \"end\": 482.28, \"score\": 0.588}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 482.28, \"end\": 482.4, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 482.4, \"end\": 482.541, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 482.541, \"end\": 483.101, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 483.101, \"end\": 483.201, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 483.201, \"end\": 483.301, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 483.301, \"end\": 483.481, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 483.481, \"end\": 483.642, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 483.642, 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\"end\": 631.59, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 631.59, \"end\": 631.61, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,864 --> 00:00:22,180\n主席麻煩請財政部莊部長請部長委員好部長早今天媒體有報導說今年度到9月底為止的稅收狀況是不是你稍微做說明一下\n\n2\n00:00:22,977 --> 00:00:34,560\n是跟報告就是說今年到9月底的稅收做全國的稅收是達到兩兆9453億那達成全年的預算數到91%那在中央的部分的我們稅收是有兩兆1415億那也達成我們的預算數的92.5%那我們在評估這樣的一個\n\n3\n00:00:48,143 --> 00:00:51,467\n在這條案中,增加的稅收主要是中所稅,中所稅基本上已經達成了我們的預算數另外還有證交稅也達成了我們的預算數\n\n4\n00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:29,798\n那這個部分是稅收的情況然後另外在營業稅的部分事實上收取的也不錯也比去年度同年的中央部分是增加243億可以看出來國內的需求的一個穩定的成長以及進口原物料的一個增加所以讓我們的營業稅也成長那從9月是這樣子那你預估今年的稅率徵收的最後能夠達到怎麼樣子的規模\n\n5\n00:01:30,618 --> 00:01:59,724\n是,委員報告到9月底數據是這樣子那到今年我們之前就講我可以達成預算數沒有問題但是會超出預算數的金額我們大概目前可以講說超出預算數應該會達到一千億至於詳細的數據因為9月的部分因為有營所稅的佔繳稅款到10月會入帳所以會更明確那目前來說是中央中央的部分一千億是比較保守的估計我們先做保守的估計\n\n6\n00:02:00,663 --> 00:02:23,871\n對阿,所以我去年跟你說的你們的那個稅入的那個估算喔還是真的還是比較保守,對不對?跟實際上比起來跟委員報告,在稅入的估算的部分其實我們已經一直在改進,包含我們成立了估測的專案小組那對於各個稅務影響的稅收的一個因子我們都做過討論但是今年有一個情況就是我們的證交稅\n\n7\n00:02:25,271 --> 00:02:37,974\n正交稅的部分我們原來在預算數編列的時候今年的日均量是3500億但是到目前為止大概都有5000億一個日均量有達到5000億所以這個部分正交稅事實上是最難估測的一個數據所以正交稅到目前為止我們已經收到2207億那麼預算數是2087億所以已經超過預算數\n\n8\n00:02:48,592 --> 00:03:17,023\n好啦我是做整體跟你講啦每次跟你們講你們估算的時候都有一堆理由把它估得比較保守那這個也難我也沒有要為難你們的意思因為這樣公務員達到預期的這個目標董事都能夠超過百分之百嘛但是我是覺得那個差距最好不要能夠小比較好再來就是去年通過了今年度的舉借本來是要舉借多少\n\n9\n00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:40,576\n一千多億一千多少一千我看一下原來舉要編列的一千七百多億全部都沒有舉借嗎本來一千五百七十一億到目前為止並沒有舉借而且如果你預算今年度是超過預算數的話大概也不會舉借\n\n10\n00:03:42,777 --> 00:03:55,516\n對,然後我們債也先還了所以你的那個報告的第三頁小跨部的二這個我已經跟你講過非常多次了我跟財政部提醒過非常多次你們那個總體的那個\n\n11\n00:03:57,967 --> 00:04:20,834\n公共債務未償餘額你老是要用預算數幾年相加然後等到決算算完之後但是決算會落後兩年嘛那兩年把這個預算數的估計數都加進來所以你看現在你的預估數如果照你的報告預估數是6兆8千多億\n\n12\n00:04:22,199 --> 00:04:49,773\n但是實據數才五兆八千多億差了將近一兆你知道嗎是的那這個因為預算的編列有預算編列的規則我知道那我的意思說你在寫報告的時候事實上沒有舉借而今年也不用舉借所以是已經還款的部分難道不能夠扣掉嗎你就要照那個預算說我前兩三年的舉借事實上都沒舉借啊結果還一直把它累積\n\n13\n00:04:51,363 --> 00:05:08,764\n所以我跟你說現在如果媒體或是國人拿你這個報告說一估114年底中央政府的預算中央政府的舉借會長債務與委員會6兆8千多億所以我們國人每一個人事實上負債多少多少\n\n14\n00:05:09,946 --> 00:05:27,657\n人家也沒有錯啊是照你的報告來的啊但是那跟事實的差距會有很大的差距啊委員說得很是沒有錯那所以我們在報告第三頁裡面同時也提到就是說到9月底的實際稅稅照人家沒有義務要把這講整天嘛所以我是說你們的寫法我已經提了很多年了\n\n15\n00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:55,368\n能不能寫得讓大家更能夠了解真正債務的狀況而不是用這樣子的方式我知道你這個金額是以前的未償預額加上這三年的舉借數問題是這三年都沒有舉借是預算編列事實上一毛都沒舉借結果你就把它加進來變成我們的預估數你這個估法太粗糙了\n\n16\n00:05:56,608 --> 00:06:11,381\n一、預算因為編列有一些相關的規則那我想我們未來在報告裡面能夠呈想得更清楚一點避免外界在引用上錯誤的引用那莫名其妙說臺灣的這個中央債務會場域突然之間多了一兆出來\n\n17\n00:06:13,061 --> 00:06:13,382\n財政部報告\n\n18\n00:06:27,596 --> 00:06:28,717\n現在中國政府用財政手段在刺激他們的股市\n\n19\n00:06:53,686 --> 00:07:09,093\n所以現在有一個說法叫做無毛硬抄大水漫灌所以中國的股市的控制幾乎就是在中國政府的手裡當然用這個金融財政的手段要去解決實體的經濟問題時間一久也是撐不住的啦\n\n20\n00:07:13,905 --> 00:07:25,453\n所以我要問我們公股銀行在中國的曝險這些年的狀況怎麼樣?公股銀行在今年的曝險金額是1666億大概是9%淨值比率是9%所以已經逐年下降110年是有3700億所以已經下降了那這個部分我們也請公股行庫要加強風險調整的一個控管的機制那有沒有重大的預期\n\n21\n00:07:50,891 --> 00:08:00,819\n由於在這個這幾年來在中國大陸這個部分而我們的公股行庫在承作上其實已經一直在緊縮所以並沒有目前為止並沒有一個重大的一個預期違約案\n\n22\n00:08:01,940 --> 00:08:20,756\n所以目前沒有齁?沒有中大的預期好那我再請問把香港跟中國過去是不同的看法但是香港越來越成為中國內陸的一個城市喔是那我們對香港不同的做法各家公股銀行在香港都有一些分支機構未來你要怎麼處理?這個部分我們也請我們公股行庫對香港地區也要調降這個他們的風險額度並且要監控這個曝險的部位\n\n23\n00:08:31,364 --> 00:08:49,398\n這個部分都有請相關的公股、行股但是就以到目前為止我們台灣跟香港加上中國的這些金融往來還是相當的密切馬上要脫鉤是很難的所以你要逐步來可是香港的地位在美國的國會\n\n24\n00:08:51,161 --> 00:09:05,999\n在眾議院已經通過他要檢討他的那個香港的特殊地位所以他將來可能會把香港認為是一個中國的內陸城市甚至最嚴重的是要最後一步港幣不能夠直接兌換美元\n\n25\n00:09:07,340 --> 00:09:28,357\n這個法案現在已經眾議院通過了當然是沒有包括我剛剛講的港幣的部分在檢討它的地位將來參議院也在處理所以香港如果狀況最糟糕繼續因為人權的惡化因為繼續中國的這個高壓統治的這個痛感有可能它的特殊地位會被拿掉\n\n26\n00:09:29,738 --> 00:09:51,000\n如果美國把證券的特殊地位拿掉的時候我們台灣的這些公股、航庫要如何因應?是,謝謝委員這樣的一個提醒我想這個部分我們必要的時候可以全面暫停乘坐這樣的一個相關的業務我想這個部分我們會密切關注這樣的一個法案的行動進行我的意思不是這樣啦因為事實上你要馬上全面的停止這個\n\n27\n00:09:53,488 --> 00:10:18,805\n應作是不可能的而是你要有一個備案、覆案如果發生這樣的狀況的時候要怎麼處理那今天我想不會有答案我覺得你應該要跟公股、行庫之間好好的溝通說有沒有預測到將來有可能有這樣的風險那假如發生這樣的風險的時候準備要有什麼樣的因應要有以待之好不好加油努力謝謝\n\n28\n00:10:23,629 --> 00:10:31,610\n本席在這裡報告一下列席的官員在備刑的期間你們如果因為公務上的一個需求\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2864\t22180\t主席麻煩請財政部莊部長請部長委員好部長早今天媒體有報導說今年度到9月底為止的稅收狀況是不是你稍微做說明一下\n22977\t34560\t是跟報告就是說今年到9月底的稅收做全國的稅收是達到兩兆9453億那達成全年的預算數到91%那在中央的部分的我們稅收是有兩兆1415億那也達成我們的預算數的92.5%那我們在評估這樣的一個\n48143\t51467\t在這條案中,增加的稅收主要是中所稅,中所稅基本上已經達成了我們的預算數另外還有證交稅也達成了我們的預算數\n63160\t89798\t那這個部分是稅收的情況然後另外在營業稅的部分事實上收取的也不錯也比去年度同年的中央部分是增加243億可以看出來國內的需求的一個穩定的成長以及進口原物料的一個增加所以讓我們的營業稅也成長那從9月是這樣子那你預估今年的稅率徵收的最後能夠達到怎麼樣子的規模\n90618\t119724\t是,委員報告到9月底數據是這樣子那到今年我們之前就講我可以達成預算數沒有問題但是會超出預算數的金額我們大概目前可以講說超出預算數應該會達到一千億至於詳細的數據因為9月的部分因為有營所稅的佔繳稅款到10月會入帳所以會更明確那目前來說是中央中央的部分一千億是比較保守的估計我們先做保守的估計\n120663\t143871\t對阿,所以我去年跟你說的你們的那個稅入的那個估算喔還是真的還是比較保守,對不對?跟實際上比起來跟委員報告,在稅入的估算的部分其實我們已經一直在改進,包含我們成立了估測的專案小組那對於各個稅務影響的稅收的一個因子我們都做過討論但是今年有一個情況就是我們的證交稅\n145271\t157974\t正交稅的部分我們原來在預算數編列的時候今年的日均量是3500億但是到目前為止大概都有5000億一個日均量有達到5000億所以這個部分正交稅事實上是最難估測的一個數據所以正交稅到目前為止我們已經收到2207億那麼預算數是2087億所以已經超過預算數\n168592\t197023\t好啦 我是做整體跟你講啦每次跟你們講你們估算的時候都有一堆理由把它估得比較保守那這個也難 我也沒有要為難你們的意思因為這樣公務員達到預期的這個目標董事都能夠超過百分之百嘛但是我是覺得那個差距最好不要能夠小比較好再來就是去年通過了今年度的舉借本來是要舉借多少\n199360\t220576\t一千多億一千多少一千我看一下原來舉要編列的一千七百多億全部都沒有舉借嗎本來一千五百七十一億到目前為止並沒有舉借而且如果你預算今年度是超過預算數的話大概也不會舉借\n222777\t235516\t對,然後我們債也先還了所以你的那個報告的第三頁小跨部的二這個我已經跟你講過非常多次了我跟財政部提醒過非常多次你們那個總體的那個\n237967\t260834\t公共債務未償餘額你老是要用預算數幾年相加然後等到決算算完之後但是決算會落後兩年嘛那兩年把這個預算數的估計數都加進來所以你看現在你的預估數如果照你的報告預估數是6兆8千多億\n262199\t289773\t但是實據數才五兆八千多億差了將近一兆你知道嗎是的那這個因為預算的編列有預算編列的規則我知道那我的意思說你在寫報告的時候事實上沒有舉借而今年也不用舉借所以是已經還款的部分難道不能夠扣掉嗎你就要照那個預算說我前兩三年的舉借事實上都沒舉借啊結果還一直把它累積\n291363\t308764\t所以我跟你說現在如果媒體或是國人拿你這個報告說一估114年底中央政府的預算中央政府的舉借會長債務與委員會6兆8千多億所以我們國人每一個人事實上負債多少多少\n309946\t327657\t人家也沒有錯啊是照你的報告來的啊但是那跟事實的差距會有很大的差距啊委員說得很是沒有錯那所以我們在報告第三頁裡面同時也提到就是說到9月底的實際稅稅照人家沒有義務要把這講整天嘛所以我是說你們的寫法我已經提了很多年了\n333200\t355368\t能不能寫得讓大家更能夠了解真正債務的狀況而不是用這樣子的方式我知道你這個金額是以前的未償預額加上這三年的舉借數問題是這三年都沒有舉借是預算編列事實上一毛都沒舉借結果你就把它加進來變成我們的預估數你這個估法太粗糙了\n356608\t371381\t一、預算因為編列有一些相關的規則那我想我們未來在報告裡面能夠呈想得更清楚一點避免外界在引用上錯誤的引用那莫名其妙說臺灣的這個中央債務會場域突然之間多了一兆出來\n373061\t373382\t財政部報告\n387596\t388717\t現在中國政府用財政手段在刺激他們的股市\n413686\t429093\t所以現在有一個說法叫做無毛硬抄大水漫灌所以中國的股市的控制幾乎就是在中國政府的手裡當然用這個金融財政的手段要去解決實體的經濟問題時間一久也是撐不住的啦\n433905\t445453\t所以我要問我們公股銀行在中國的曝險這些年的狀況怎麼樣?公股銀行在今年的曝險金額是1666億大概是9%淨值比率是9%所以已經逐年下降110年是有3700億所以已經下降了那這個部分我們也請公股行庫要加強風險調整的一個控管的機制那有沒有重大的預期\n470891\t480819\t由於在這個這幾年來在中國大陸這個部分而我們的公股行庫在承作上其實已經一直在緊縮所以並沒有目前為止並沒有一個重大的一個預期違約案\n481940\t500756\t所以目前沒有齁?沒有中大的預期好那我再請問把香港跟中國過去是不同的看法但是香港越來越成為中國內陸的一個城市喔是那我們對香港不同的做法各家公股銀行在香港都有一些分支機構未來你要怎麼處理?這個部分我們也請我們公股行庫對香港地區也要調降這個他們的風險額度並且要監控這個曝險的部位\n511364\t529398\t這個部分都有請相關的公股、行股但是就以到目前為止我們台灣跟香港加上中國的這些金融往來還是相當的密切馬上要脫鉤是很難的所以你要逐步來可是香港的地位在美國的國會\n531161\t545999\t在眾議院已經通過他要檢討他的那個香港的特殊地位所以他將來可能會把香港認為是一個中國的內陸城市甚至最嚴重的是要最後一步港幣不能夠直接兌換美元\n547340\t568357\t這個法案現在已經眾議院通過了當然是沒有包括我剛剛講的港幣的部分在檢討它的地位將來參議院也在處理所以香港如果狀況最糟糕繼續因為人權的惡化因為繼續中國的這個高壓統治的這個痛感有可能它的特殊地位會被拿掉\n569738\t591000\t如果美國把證券的特殊地位拿掉的時候我們台灣的這些公股、航庫要如何因應?是,謝謝委員這樣的一個提醒我想這個部分我們必要的時候可以全面暫停乘坐這樣的一個相關的業務我想這個部分我們會密切關注這樣的一個法案的行動進行我的意思不是這樣啦因為事實上你要馬上全面的停止這個\n593488\t618805\t應作是不可能的而是你要有一個備案、覆案如果發生這樣的狀況的時候要怎麼處理那今天我想不會有答案我覺得你應該要跟公股、行庫之間好好的溝通說有沒有預測到將來有可能有這樣的風險那假如發生這樣的風險的時候準備要有什麼樣的因應要有以待之好不好加油努力謝謝\n623629\t631610\t本席在這裡報告一下列席的官員在備刑的期間你們如果因為公務上的一個需求\n","txt":"主席麻煩請財政部莊部長請部長委員好部長早今天媒體有報導說今年度到9月底為止的稅收狀況是不是你稍微做說明一下\n是跟報告就是說今年到9月底的稅收做全國的稅收是達到兩兆9453億那達成全年的預算數到91%那在中央的部分的我們稅收是有兩兆1415億那也達成我們的預算數的92.5%那我們在評估這樣的一個\n在這條案中,增加的稅收主要是中所稅,中所稅基本上已經達成了我們的預算數另外還有證交稅也達成了我們的預算數\n那這個部分是稅收的情況然後另外在營業稅的部分事實上收取的也不錯也比去年度同年的中央部分是增加243億可以看出來國內的需求的一個穩定的成長以及進口原物料的一個增加所以讓我們的營業稅也成長那從9月是這樣子那你預估今年的稅率徵收的最後能夠達到怎麼樣子的規模\n是,委員報告到9月底數據是這樣子那到今年我們之前就講我可以達成預算數沒有問題但是會超出預算數的金額我們大概目前可以講說超出預算數應該會達到一千億至於詳細的數據因為9月的部分因為有營所稅的佔繳稅款到10月會入帳所以會更明確那目前來說是中央中央的部分一千億是比較保守的估計我們先做保守的估計\n對阿,所以我去年跟你說的你們的那個稅入的那個估算喔還是真的還是比較保守,對不對?跟實際上比起來跟委員報告,在稅入的估算的部分其實我們已經一直在改進,包含我們成立了估測的專案小組那對於各個稅務影響的稅收的一個因子我們都做過討論但是今年有一個情況就是我們的證交稅\n正交稅的部分我們原來在預算數編列的時候今年的日均量是3500億但是到目前為止大概都有5000億一個日均量有達到5000億所以這個部分正交稅事實上是最難估測的一個數據所以正交稅到目前為止我們已經收到2207億那麼預算數是2087億所以已經超過預算數\n好啦 我是做整體跟你講啦每次跟你們講你們估算的時候都有一堆理由把它估得比較保守那這個也難 我也沒有要為難你們的意思因為這樣公務員達到預期的這個目標董事都能夠超過百分之百嘛但是我是覺得那個差距最好不要能夠小比較好再來就是去年通過了今年度的舉借本來是要舉借多少\n一千多億一千多少一千我看一下原來舉要編列的一千七百多億全部都沒有舉借嗎本來一千五百七十一億到目前為止並沒有舉借而且如果你預算今年度是超過預算數的話大概也不會舉借\n對,然後我們債也先還了所以你的那個報告的第三頁小跨部的二這個我已經跟你講過非常多次了我跟財政部提醒過非常多次你們那個總體的那個\n公共債務未償餘額你老是要用預算數幾年相加然後等到決算算完之後但是決算會落後兩年嘛那兩年把這個預算數的估計數都加進來所以你看現在你的預估數如果照你的報告預估數是6兆8千多億\n但是實據數才五兆八千多億差了將近一兆你知道嗎是的那這個因為預算的編列有預算編列的規則我知道那我的意思說你在寫報告的時候事實上沒有舉借而今年也不用舉借所以是已經還款的部分難道不能夠扣掉嗎你就要照那個預算說我前兩三年的舉借事實上都沒舉借啊結果還一直把它累積\n所以我跟你說現在如果媒體或是國人拿你這個報告說一估114年底中央政府的預算中央政府的舉借會長債務與委員會6兆8千多億所以我們國人每一個人事實上負債多少多少\n人家也沒有錯啊是照你的報告來的啊但是那跟事實的差距會有很大的差距啊委員說得很是沒有錯那所以我們在報告第三頁裡面同時也提到就是說到9月底的實際稅稅照人家沒有義務要把這講整天嘛所以我是說你們的寫法我已經提了很多年了\n能不能寫得讓大家更能夠了解真正債務的狀況而不是用這樣子的方式我知道你這個金額是以前的未償預額加上這三年的舉借數問題是這三年都沒有舉借是預算編列事實上一毛都沒舉借結果你就把它加進來變成我們的預估數你這個估法太粗糙了\n一、預算因為編列有一些相關的規則那我想我們未來在報告裡面能夠呈想得更清楚一點避免外界在引用上錯誤的引用那莫名其妙說臺灣的這個中央債務會場域突然之間多了一兆出來\n財政部報告\n現在中國政府用財政手段在刺激他們的股市\n所以現在有一個說法叫做無毛硬抄大水漫灌所以中國的股市的控制幾乎就是在中國政府的手裡當然用這個金融財政的手段要去解決實體的經濟問題時間一久也是撐不住的啦\n所以我要問我們公股銀行在中國的曝險這些年的狀況怎麼樣?公股銀行在今年的曝險金額是1666億大概是9%淨值比率是9%所以已經逐年下降110年是有3700億所以已經下降了那這個部分我們也請公股行庫要加強風險調整的一個控管的機制那有沒有重大的預期\n由於在這個這幾年來在中國大陸這個部分而我們的公股行庫在承作上其實已經一直在緊縮所以並沒有目前為止並沒有一個重大的一個預期違約案\n所以目前沒有齁?沒有中大的預期好那我再請問把香港跟中國過去是不同的看法但是香港越來越成為中國內陸的一個城市喔是那我們對香港不同的做法各家公股銀行在香港都有一些分支機構未來你要怎麼處理?這個部分我們也請我們公股行庫對香港地區也要調降這個他們的風險額度並且要監控這個曝險的部位\n這個部分都有請相關的公股、行股但是就以到目前為止我們台灣跟香港加上中國的這些金融往來還是相當的密切馬上要脫鉤是很難的所以你要逐步來可是香港的地位在美國的國會\n在眾議院已經通過他要檢討他的那個香港的特殊地位所以他將來可能會把香港認為是一個中國的內陸城市甚至最嚴重的是要最後一步港幣不能夠直接兌換美元\n這個法案現在已經眾議院通過了當然是沒有包括我剛剛講的港幣的部分在檢討它的地位將來參議院也在處理所以香港如果狀況最糟糕繼續因為人權的惡化因為繼續中國的這個高壓統治的這個痛感有可能它的特殊地位會被拿掉\n如果美國把證券的特殊地位拿掉的時候我們台灣的這些公股、航庫要如何因應?是,謝謝委員這樣的一個提醒我想這個部分我們必要的時候可以全面暫停乘坐這樣的一個相關的業務我想這個部分我們會密切關注這樣的一個法案的行動進行我的意思不是這樣啦因為事實上你要馬上全面的停止這個\n應作是不可能的而是你要有一個備案、覆案如果發生這樣的狀況的時候要怎麼處理那今天我想不會有答案我覺得你應該要跟公股、行庫之間好好的溝通說有沒有預測到將來有可能有這樣的風險那假如發生這樣的風險的時候準備要有什麼樣的因應要有以待之好不好加油努力謝謝\n本席在這裡報告一下列席的官員在備刑的期間你們如果因為公務上的一個需求\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.864 --> 00:22.180\n主席麻煩請財政部莊部長請部長委員好部長早今天媒體有報導說今年度到9月底為止的稅收狀況是不是你稍微做說明一下\n\n00:22.977 --> 00:34.560\n是跟報告就是說今年到9月底的稅收做全國的稅收是達到兩兆9453億那達成全年的預算數到91%那在中央的部分的我們稅收是有兩兆1415億那也達成我們的預算數的92.5%那我們在評估這樣的一個\n\n00:48.143 --> 00:51.467\n在這條案中,增加的稅收主要是中所稅,中所稅基本上已經達成了我們的預算數另外還有證交稅也達成了我們的預算數\n\n01:03.160 --> 01:29.798\n那這個部分是稅收的情況然後另外在營業稅的部分事實上收取的也不錯也比去年度同年的中央部分是增加243億可以看出來國內的需求的一個穩定的成長以及進口原物料的一個增加所以讓我們的營業稅也成長那從9月是這樣子那你預估今年的稅率徵收的最後能夠達到怎麼樣子的規模\n\n01:30.618 --> 01:59.724\n是,委員報告到9月底數據是這樣子那到今年我們之前就講我可以達成預算數沒有問題但是會超出預算數的金額我們大概目前可以講說超出預算數應該會達到一千億至於詳細的數據因為9月的部分因為有營所稅的佔繳稅款到10月會入帳所以會更明確那目前來說是中央中央的部分一千億是比較保守的估計我們先做保守的估計\n\n02:00.663 --> 02:23.871\n對阿,所以我去年跟你說的你們的那個稅入的那個估算喔還是真的還是比較保守,對不對?跟實際上比起來跟委員報告,在稅入的估算的部分其實我們已經一直在改進,包含我們成立了估測的專案小組那對於各個稅務影響的稅收的一個因子我們都做過討論但是今年有一個情況就是我們的證交稅\n\n02:25.271 --> 02:37.974\n正交稅的部分我們原來在預算數編列的時候今年的日均量是3500億但是到目前為止大概都有5000億一個日均量有達到5000億所以這個部分正交稅事實上是最難估測的一個數據所以正交稅到目前為止我們已經收到2207億那麼預算數是2087億所以已經超過預算數\n\n02:48.592 --> 03:17.023\n好啦我是做整體跟你講啦每次跟你們講你們估算的時候都有一堆理由把它估得比較保守那這個也難我也沒有要為難你們的意思因為這樣公務員達到預期的這個目標董事都能夠超過百分之百嘛但是我是覺得那個差距最好不要能夠小比較好再來就是去年通過了今年度的舉借本來是要舉借多少\n\n03:19.360 --> 03:40.576\n一千多億一千多少一千我看一下原來舉要編列的一千七百多億全部都沒有舉借嗎本來一千五百七十一億到目前為止並沒有舉借而且如果你預算今年度是超過預算數的話大概也不會舉借\n\n03:42.777 --> 03:55.516\n對,然後我們債也先還了所以你的那個報告的第三頁小跨部的二這個我已經跟你講過非常多次了我跟財政部提醒過非常多次你們那個總體的那個\n\n03:57.967 --> 04:20.834\n公共債務未償餘額你老是要用預算數幾年相加然後等到決算算完之後但是決算會落後兩年嘛那兩年把這個預算數的估計數都加進來所以你看現在你的預估數如果照你的報告預估數是6兆8千多億\n\n04:22.199 --> 04:49.773\n但是實據數才五兆八千多億差了將近一兆你知道嗎是的那這個因為預算的編列有預算編列的規則我知道那我的意思說你在寫報告的時候事實上沒有舉借而今年也不用舉借所以是已經還款的部分難道不能夠扣掉嗎你就要照那個預算說我前兩三年的舉借事實上都沒舉借啊結果還一直把它累積\n\n04:51.363 --> 05:08.764\n所以我跟你說現在如果媒體或是國人拿你這個報告說一估114年底中央政府的預算中央政府的舉借會長債務與委員會6兆8千多億所以我們國人每一個人事實上負債多少多少\n\n05:09.946 --> 05:27.657\n人家也沒有錯啊是照你的報告來的啊但是那跟事實的差距會有很大的差距啊委員說得很是沒有錯那所以我們在報告第三頁裡面同時也提到就是說到9月底的實際稅稅照人家沒有義務要把這講整天嘛所以我是說你們的寫法我已經提了很多年了\n\n05:33.200 --> 05:55.368\n能不能寫得讓大家更能夠了解真正債務的狀況而不是用這樣子的方式我知道你這個金額是以前的未償預額加上這三年的舉借數問題是這三年都沒有舉借是預算編列事實上一毛都沒舉借結果你就把它加進來變成我們的預估數你這個估法太粗糙了\n\n05:56.608 --> 06:11.381\n一、預算因為編列有一些相關的規則那我想我們未來在報告裡面能夠呈想得更清楚一點避免外界在引用上錯誤的引用那莫名其妙說臺灣的這個中央債務會場域突然之間多了一兆出來\n\n06:13.061 --> 06:13.382\n財政部報告\n\n06:27.596 --> 06:28.717\n現在中國政府用財政手段在刺激他們的股市\n\n06:53.686 --> 07:09.093\n所以現在有一個說法叫做無毛硬抄大水漫灌所以中國的股市的控制幾乎就是在中國政府的手裡當然用這個金融財政的手段要去解決實體的經濟問題時間一久也是撐不住的啦\n\n07:13.905 --> 07:25.453\n所以我要問我們公股銀行在中國的曝險這些年的狀況怎麼樣?公股銀行在今年的曝險金額是1666億大概是9%淨值比率是9%所以已經逐年下降110年是有3700億所以已經下降了那這個部分我們也請公股行庫要加強風險調整的一個控管的機制那有沒有重大的預期\n\n07:50.891 --> 08:00.819\n由於在這個這幾年來在中國大陸這個部分而我們的公股行庫在承作上其實已經一直在緊縮所以並沒有目前為止並沒有一個重大的一個預期違約案\n\n08:01.940 --> 08:20.756\n所以目前沒有齁?沒有中大的預期好那我再請問把香港跟中國過去是不同的看法但是香港越來越成為中國內陸的一個城市喔是那我們對香港不同的做法各家公股銀行在香港都有一些分支機構未來你要怎麼處理?這個部分我們也請我們公股行庫對香港地區也要調降這個他們的風險額度並且要監控這個曝險的部位\n\n08:31.364 --> 08:49.398\n這個部分都有請相關的公股、行股但是就以到目前為止我們台灣跟香港加上中國的這些金融往來還是相當的密切馬上要脫鉤是很難的所以你要逐步來可是香港的地位在美國的國會\n\n08:51.161 --> 09:05.999\n在眾議院已經通過他要檢討他的那個香港的特殊地位所以他將來可能會把香港認為是一個中國的內陸城市甚至最嚴重的是要最後一步港幣不能夠直接兌換美元\n\n09:07.340 --> 09:28.357\n這個法案現在已經眾議院通過了當然是沒有包括我剛剛講的港幣的部分在檢討它的地位將來參議院也在處理所以香港如果狀況最糟糕繼續因為人權的惡化因為繼續中國的這個高壓統治的這個痛感有可能它的特殊地位會被拿掉\n\n09:29.738 --> 09:51.000\n如果美國把證券的特殊地位拿掉的時候我們台灣的這些公股、航庫要如何因應?是,謝謝委員這樣的一個提醒我想這個部分我們必要的時候可以全面暫停乘坐這樣的一個相關的業務我想這個部分我們會密切關注這樣的一個法案的行動進行我的意思不是這樣啦因為事實上你要馬上全面的停止這個\n\n09:53.488 --> 10:18.805\n應作是不可能的而是你要有一個備案、覆案如果發生這樣的狀況的時候要怎麼處理那今天我想不會有答案我覺得你應該要跟公股、行庫之間好好的溝通說有沒有預測到將來有可能有這樣的風險那假如發生這樣的風險的時候準備要有什麼樣的因應要有以待之好不好加油努力謝謝\n\n10:23.629 --> 10:31.610\n本席在這裡報告一下列席的官員在備刑的期間你們如果因為公務上的一個需求\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.864,"end":22.18,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部莊部長請部長委員好部長早今天媒體有報導說今年度到9月底為止的稅收狀況是不是你稍微做說明一下"},{"start":22.977,"end":34.56,"text":"是跟報告就是說今年到9月底的稅收做全國的稅收是達到兩兆9453億那達成全年的預算數到91%那在中央的部分的我們稅收是有兩兆1415億那也達成我們的預算數的92.5%那我們在評估這樣的一個"},{"start":48.143,"end":51.467,"text":"在這條案中,增加的稅收主要是中所稅,中所稅基本上已經達成了我們的預算數另外還有證交稅也達成了我們的預算數"},{"start":63.16,"end":89.798,"text":"那這個部分是稅收的情況然後另外在營業稅的部分事實上收取的也不錯也比去年度同年的中央部分是增加243億可以看出來國內的需求的一個穩定的成長以及進口原物料的一個增加所以讓我們的營業稅也成長那從9月是這樣子那你預估今年的稅率徵收的最後能夠達到怎麼樣子的規模"},{"start":90.618,"end":119.724,"text":"是,委員報告到9月底數據是這樣子那到今年我們之前就講我可以達成預算數沒有問題但是會超出預算數的金額我們大概目前可以講說超出預算數應該會達到一千億至於詳細的數據因為9月的部分因為有營所稅的佔繳稅款到10月會入帳所以會更明確那目前來說是中央中央的部分一千億是比較保守的估計我們先做保守的估計"},{"start":120.663,"end":143.871,"text":"對阿,所以我去年跟你說的你們的那個稅入的那個估算喔還是真的還是比較保守,對不對?跟實際上比起來跟委員報告,在稅入的估算的部分其實我們已經一直在改進,包含我們成立了估測的專案小組那對於各個稅務影響的稅收的一個因子我們都做過討論但是今年有一個情況就是我們的證交稅"},{"start":145.271,"end":157.974,"text":"正交稅的部分我們原來在預算數編列的時候今年的日均量是3500億但是到目前為止大概都有5000億一個日均量有達到5000億所以這個部分正交稅事實上是最難估測的一個數據所以正交稅到目前為止我們已經收到2207億那麼預算數是2087億所以已經超過預算數"},{"start":168.592,"end":197.023,"text":"好啦 我是做整體跟你講啦每次跟你們講你們估算的時候都有一堆理由把它估得比較保守那這個也難 我也沒有要為難你們的意思因為這樣公務員達到預期的這個目標董事都能夠超過百分之百嘛但是我是覺得那個差距最好不要能夠小比較好再來就是去年通過了今年度的舉借本來是要舉借多少"},{"start":199.36,"end":220.576,"text":"一千多億一千多少一千我看一下原來舉要編列的一千七百多億全部都沒有舉借嗎本來一千五百七十一億到目前為止並沒有舉借而且如果你預算今年度是超過預算數的話大概也不會舉借"},{"start":222.777,"end":235.516,"text":"對,然後我們債也先還了所以你的那個報告的第三頁小跨部的二這個我已經跟你講過非常多次了我跟財政部提醒過非常多次你們那個總體的那個"},{"start":237.967,"end":260.834,"text":"公共債務未償餘額你老是要用預算數幾年相加然後等到決算算完之後但是決算會落後兩年嘛那兩年把這個預算數的估計數都加進來所以你看現在你的預估數如果照你的報告預估數是6兆8千多億"},{"start":262.199,"end":289.773,"text":"但是實據數才五兆八千多億差了將近一兆你知道嗎是的那這個因為預算的編列有預算編列的規則我知道那我的意思說你在寫報告的時候事實上沒有舉借而今年也不用舉借所以是已經還款的部分難道不能夠扣掉嗎你就要照那個預算說我前兩三年的舉借事實上都沒舉借啊結果還一直把它累積"},{"start":291.363,"end":308.764,"text":"所以我跟你說現在如果媒體或是國人拿你這個報告說一估114年底中央政府的預算中央政府的舉借會長債務與委員會6兆8千多億所以我們國人每一個人事實上負債多少多少"},{"start":309.946,"end":327.657,"text":"人家也沒有錯啊是照你的報告來的啊但是那跟事實的差距會有很大的差距啊委員說得很是沒有錯那所以我們在報告第三頁裡面同時也提到就是說到9月底的實際稅稅照人家沒有義務要把這講整天嘛所以我是說你們的寫法我已經提了很多年了"},{"start":333.2,"end":355.368,"text":"能不能寫得讓大家更能夠了解真正債務的狀況而不是用這樣子的方式我知道你這個金額是以前的未償預額加上這三年的舉借數問題是這三年都沒有舉借是預算編列事實上一毛都沒舉借結果你就把它加進來變成我們的預估數你這個估法太粗糙了"},{"start":356.608,"end":371.381,"text":"一、預算因為編列有一些相關的規則那我想我們未來在報告裡面能夠呈想得更清楚一點避免外界在引用上錯誤的引用那莫名其妙說臺灣的這個中央債務會場域突然之間多了一兆出來"},{"start":373.061,"end":373.382,"text":"財政部報告"},{"start":387.596,"end":388.717,"text":"現在中國政府用財政手段在刺激他們的股市"},{"start":413.686,"end":429.093,"text":"所以現在有一個說法叫做無毛硬抄大水漫灌所以中國的股市的控制幾乎就是在中國政府的手裡當然用這個金融財政的手段要去解決實體的經濟問題時間一久也是撐不住的啦"},{"start":433.905,"end":445.453,"text":"所以我要問我們公股銀行在中國的曝險這些年的狀況怎麼樣?公股銀行在今年的曝險金額是1666億大概是9%淨值比率是9%所以已經逐年下降110年是有3700億所以已經下降了那這個部分我們也請公股行庫要加強風險調整的一個控管的機制那有沒有重大的預期"},{"start":470.891,"end":480.819,"text":"由於在這個這幾年來在中國大陸這個部分而我們的公股行庫在承作上其實已經一直在緊縮所以並沒有目前為止並沒有一個重大的一個預期違約案"},{"start":481.94,"end":500.756,"text":"所以目前沒有齁?沒有中大的預期好那我再請問把香港跟中國過去是不同的看法但是香港越來越成為中國內陸的一個城市喔是那我們對香港不同的做法各家公股銀行在香港都有一些分支機構未來你要怎麼處理?這個部分我們也請我們公股行庫對香港地區也要調降這個他們的風險額度並且要監控這個曝險的部位"},{"start":511.364,"end":529.398,"text":"這個部分都有請相關的公股、行股但是就以到目前為止我們台灣跟香港加上中國的這些金融往來還是相當的密切馬上要脫鉤是很難的所以你要逐步來可是香港的地位在美國的國會"},{"start":531.161,"end":545.999,"text":"在眾議院已經通過他要檢討他的那個香港的特殊地位所以他將來可能會把香港認為是一個中國的內陸城市甚至最嚴重的是要最後一步港幣不能夠直接兌換美元"},{"start":547.34,"end":568.357,"text":"這個法案現在已經眾議院通過了當然是沒有包括我剛剛講的港幣的部分在檢討它的地位將來參議院也在處理所以香港如果狀況最糟糕繼續因為人權的惡化因為繼續中國的這個高壓統治的這個痛感有可能它的特殊地位會被拿掉"},{"start":569.738,"end":591,"text":"如果美國把證券的特殊地位拿掉的時候我們台灣的這些公股、航庫要如何因應?是,謝謝委員這樣的一個提醒我想這個部分我們必要的時候可以全面暫停乘坐這樣的一個相關的業務我想這個部分我們會密切關注這樣的一個法案的行動進行我的意思不是這樣啦因為事實上你要馬上全面的停止這個"},{"start":593.488,"end":618.805,"text":"應作是不可能的而是你要有一個備案、覆案如果發生這樣的狀況的時候要怎麼處理那今天我想不會有答案我覺得你應該要跟公股、行庫之間好好的溝通說有沒有預測到將來有可能有這樣的風險那假如發生這樣的風險的時候準備要有什麼樣的因應要有以待之好不好加油努力謝謝"},{"start":623.629,"end":631.61,"text":"本席在這裡報告一下列席的官員在備刑的期間你們如果因為公務上的一個需求"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[20],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-20-2","title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:41:40 - 09:52:11","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查「證券交易稅條例」7案：\n(一)\t行政院函請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員羅明才等20人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員賴惠員等37人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(六)\t本院委員林楚茵等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(七)\t本院委員邱志偉等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155503,"gazette":{"lineno":138,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（9時41分）主席，麻煩請財政部莊部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["吳委員秉叡：部長早。今天媒體有報導今年度到9月底為止的稅收狀況，是不是你稍微說明一下？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，今年到9月底的稅收，全國的稅收是達到2兆9,453億，達成全年預算數的91%。在中央的部分，我們稅收有2兆1,415億，也達成我們預算數的92.5%，我們在評估這樣一個情況，這裡面增加的稅收主要就是綜所稅，綜所稅基本上已經達成了我們的預算數，還有證交稅也達成了我們的預算數，這個部分是稅收的情況。另外，在營業稅的部分，事實上收取的也不錯，也比去年度增加，中央的部分是增加243億，可以看出來國內的需求穩定成長，以及進口原物料增加，所以讓我們的營業稅也成長。"],["吳委員秉叡：從9月是這樣子，你預估今年的歲入，徵收到最後能夠達到怎麼樣的規模？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，到9月底數據是這樣子，我們之前就講，到今年我們可以達成預算數沒有問題，但是會超出預算數的金額，我們目前可以說，超出預算數應該會達到1,000億。至於詳細的數據，9月的部分因為有營所稅的暫繳稅款，到10月會入帳，所以會更明確，目前來說……"],["吳委員秉叡：1,000億是？"],["莊部長翠雲：是中央的部分。"],["吳委員秉叡：1,000億是比較保守的估計？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們先做保守的估計。"],["吳委員秉叡：對啊，所以我去年跟你說的，你們歲入的估算真的還是比較保守，對不對？跟實際上比起來。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，在歲入估算的部分，其實我們已經一直在改進，包含我們成立了估測的專案小組，對於各個稅目影響稅收的因子，我們都做過討論，但是今年有一個情況，就是我們的證交稅，證交稅的部分我們原來在預算數編列的時候，今年的日均量是3,500億，但是到目前為止，日均量有達到5,000億，所以證交稅事實上是最難估測的一個數據，到目前為止我們已經收到2,207億，至於預算數是2,087億，所以已經超過預算數。"],["吳委員秉叡：好啦，我是整體跟你講，每次跟你們講，你們估算的時候都有一堆理由把它估得比較保守，這個我也沒有要責難你們的意思，因為這樣公務員對於預期目標的達成，總是都能夠超過百分之百，但是我是覺得那個差距最好能夠小一點比較好。"],["莊部長翠雲：當然、當然。"],["吳委員秉叡：再來就是去年通過今年度的舉借，本來是要舉借多少？一千多億？"],["莊部長翠雲：一千多億，對。"],["吳委員秉叡：一千多少……"],["莊部長翠雲：我看一下，原來編列一千七百多億。"],["吳委員秉叡：全部都沒有舉借嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：本來1,571億，到目前為止並沒有舉借。"],["吳委員秉叡：而且如果你今年度超過預算數的話，大概也不會舉借，沒有錯嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們債也先還了。"],["吳委員秉叡：還本也已經都還了。"],["莊部長翠雲：都還了，所以是十足還債。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以你報告的第3頁(2)，這個我已經跟你講過非常多次了，我跟財政部提起過非常多次，你們總體的公共債務未償餘額，你老是要用預算數幾年相加，等到決算算完之後，但是決算會落後兩年嘛！那兩年的話，把預算數的這個估計數都加進來，所以你看現在你的預估數，如果照你的報告預估數是六兆八千多億，但實際數才五兆八千多億，差了將近一兆，你知道嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，因為預算的編列……"],["吳委員秉叡：這個顯不合理！"],["莊部長翠雲：預算的編列有預算編列的規則，委員說的……"],["吳委員秉叡：我知道，我的意思是你在寫報告的時候，事實上沒有舉借，而今年也不用舉借，或是已經還款的部分……"],["莊部長翠雲：有……"],["吳委員秉叡：難道不能夠扣掉嗎？你就要照那個預算說前兩、三年的舉借，事實上都沒舉借，結果還一直把它累積。我跟你說，現在如果媒體或國人拿你這個報告說，預估114年底中央政府的預算，中央政府的舉借、未償債務餘額有六兆八千多億，所以我們國人每一個事實上負債多少、多少，人家也沒有錯，是照你的報告而來的啊！但那跟事實會有很大的差距。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員說得很是，沒有錯。所以我們在本報告第3頁裡面同時也提到，到9月底的實際數是五兆八千多億……"],["吳委員秉叡：不是，那人家也沒有義務要把這個……"],["莊部長翠雲：這句話講清楚。"],["吳委員秉叡：講一整天嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我瞭解。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以我是說你們的寫法……"],["莊部長翠雲：好……"],["吳委員秉叡：我已經提很多年了，能不能寫得讓大家更能夠瞭解債務真正的狀況？"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["吳委員秉叡：而不是用……"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：這樣子的方式，我知道你這個金額是以前的未償餘額加上這3年的舉借數，問題是這3年都沒有舉借，是預算編列，事實上一毛都沒舉借。"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有錯。"],["吳委員秉叡：結果你就把它加進來，變成我們的預估數。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：你這個估法太粗糙了。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，第一個，預算因為編列有一些相關的規則，我想我們未來在報告裡面能夠講得更清楚一點，避免外界錯誤的引用。"],["吳委員秉叡：莫名其妙地，臺灣的中央債務未償餘額突然之間多了一兆出來。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：一兆不是一個小數目。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：我們兩千三百萬人的話，每一個人多了四萬多。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，是。"],["吳委員秉叡：是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以我覺得這個報告這樣寫……"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們……"],["吳委員秉叡：人家如果給你引用上半段也沒有錯，這是財政部的報告。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。其實應該是要看實際數，因為我們……"],["吳委員秉叡：是啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：其實預算數去年也沒有借，我們的總預算，其實我們都沒有借。"],["吳委員秉叡：連續幾年都……"],["莊部長翠雲：而且增加還債。"],["吳委員秉叡：實質收入都比預算數多很多，所以根本就沒有舉借。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們沒有舉借，然後還增加還債。"],["吳委員秉叡：現在中國政府用財政手段在刺激他們的股市，有一個說法叫做無錨印鈔，大水漫灌，所以中國股市的控制幾乎就是在中國政府手裡。當然用金融財政的手段要去解決實體的經濟問題，時間一久也是撐不住的。所以我要問，我們公股銀行在中國的暴險，這些年的狀況怎麼樣？今年的狀況呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我們公股銀行在今年的暴險金額是1,666億，大概淨值比例是9%，已經逐年下降。110年是有3,700億，所以已經下降了，這部分我們也請公股行庫要加強風險調整的控管機制。"],["吳委員秉叡：包括聯貸案，有沒有重大預期的授信案和聯貸案？都沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：由於這幾年來在中國大陸這部分，我們的公股行庫在承作上其實已經一直在緊縮，所以目前為止並沒有重大的預期違約案。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以目前沒有喔？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有重大的預期違規，是。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，那我再請問，香港和中國過去是不同的看法，但是香港越來越成為中國內陸的一個城市。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：那我們對香港不同的作法，各家公股銀行在香港都有一些分支機構，未來你要怎麼處理？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們也請公股行庫對香港地區要調降他們的風險額度，並且要監控暴險部位，這個部分都有請相關的公股行庫要……"],["吳委員秉叡：但就以到目前為止臺灣和香港，加上中國的這些金融往來，還是相當密切，馬上要脫鉤是很難的，所以你要逐步來。可是香港的地位，在美國國會，在眾議院已經通過要檢討香港的特殊地位，所以它將來可能會把香港認定是中國的一個內陸城市，甚至最嚴重的，最後一步是港幣不能夠直接兌換美元。這個法案眾議院通過了，當然是沒有包括我剛剛講的港幣部分，在檢討它的地位，將來參議院也會處理。所以香港如果狀況最糟糕的話，繼續因為人權惡化、繼續因為中國的高壓統治控管，有可能它的特殊地位會被拿掉。如果美國把香港的特殊地位拿掉的時候，我們臺灣的這些公股行庫要如何因應？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員這樣的提醒。我想這個部分，我們必要的時候可以全面暫停承作相關業務，這部分我們會密切關注這樣一個法案的推動。"],["吳委員秉叡：我的意思不是這樣，因為事實上你要馬上全面停止這個運作是不可能的，而是你要有一個備案、腹案。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：如果發生這樣的狀況的時候，要怎麼處理。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：今天我想不會有答案，我覺得你應該要跟公股行庫之間好好溝通說……"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：有沒有預測到將來可能有這樣的風險，假如發生這樣的風險的時候，準備要有什麼樣的因應。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，是，謝謝委員的指教。"],["吳委員秉叡：要有以待之。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["吳委員秉叡：加油、努力。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的指教。"],["主席：本席在這裡報告一下，列席官員在備詢期間，你們如果因為公務需要接受媒體的採訪，儘量利用會前還是會後，或者中間我們休息的時間，因為今天列席官員也有很多是新生，在這裡特別做以上的報告。","接著請賴士葆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-2","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","王世堅","羅明才","邱志偉","陳培瑜","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":277,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公\n股代表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢；二、審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一)行政院函\n請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員羅明才等20人\n擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交\n易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員邱志偉等19\n人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1138501_00004"}}}