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\"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"倩\", \"start\": 685.516, \"end\": 685.576, \"score\": 0.511}, {\"word\": \"瑾\", \"start\": 685.576, \"end\": 685.596, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,980 --> 00:00:08,803\n謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,那個部長請。好,我們節省時間啊,部長。我們的業務報告裡面第23頁裡面有提到私校轉型,高峰學院變成國小,南榮科技大學雙語國小,道江管理學院是長照中心,中州科大呢?中州科大去哪裡了?對啊,退場了,你們做了什麼用?\n\n2\n00:00:33,861 --> 00:00:53,729\n您們退場做了什麼?內政部的全民國防的一個場合。好,全民國防。來,我們看下面一個。您剛出的時候,您9月24號就全部過給23.6億的校產,您過戶給我們中央,這是第一所。然後呢,您還做回什麼?前面,不要飄那麼快,前面。您過戶給我們什麼?做戶給我們全民防衛還有保二總隊的這個中隊來做使用。\n\n3\n00:01:02,572 --> 00:01:03,153\n施效退場條例有哪一條告訴我你可以用全民防衛營的空間?\n\n4\n00:01:29,991 --> 00:01:32,654\n74條,你如果把它清算完畢之後呢,辦理教育、文化、社會福利還有財團法人,而且你以辦理教育、文化、社會福利為限,哪一個條文告訴我你有全民防衛營區的空間?哪一個條文告訴我?\n\n5\n00:01:46,820 --> 00:01:50,984\n跟委員報告這是私效法不是退場條例私效法裡面拿出來看一下而且我還要特別跟部長提到一件事情來我們往下來看不管是任何的總統候選人當初賴總統在政大高喊居住正義的時候呢\n\n6\n00:02:03,157 --> 00:02:15,702\n就告訴我退場的場地是要做公益使用可以納入建造社會住宅從頭到尾都一直在提到這個層面來我們往下結果你選前是社會住宅你選後變成一個軍營所以這個部分來說的話更何況\n\n7\n00:02:20,464 --> 00:02:37,101\n目前來說你說轉移給內政部好不好內政部目前內部的資料裡面你9月22都已經對外公告了目前為止還停留在文教區所以他到底你的整個使用區分是放在哪裡告訴我一下使用區分目前為止這塊地的使用區分是在哪裡\n\n8\n00:02:40,006 --> 00:02:44,308\n跟委員報告我們目前退場條例你告訴我現在目前的使用區分到底在哪裡嗎使用區分目前是文教區那現在已經把產權移給我們內政部憑什麼憑什麼憑什麼要文改內政部依照退場條例我們的校產就是歸政府單位或是地方政府\n\n9\n00:03:01,676 --> 00:03:28,866\n你當初的整個優先次序裡面條文這麼樣子而且我強調你在選前的時候信誓旦旦告訴我你有它的一個規列而且那個時候呢所有人都已經很明顯的知道為什麼大家會認為是中州原因很簡單嘛因為大家都從它的整個土地面積來看不管是它的6公頃的土地快速道路接近國號等等之類的它是最適合蓋社宅的然後呢你就拱手讓給\n\n10\n00:03:30,407 --> 00:03:30,667\n一天到晚在罵財團是圖音結果呢\n\n11\n00:03:56,215 --> 00:04:00,198\n最後一步拱手讓給內政部而且土地的使用區分目前都還沒有變更過來而且你看看國防部超過140億你不好好去火化你還任他佔用38年目前為止列管的空間還有這麼多地方115處你什麼都不用把你們這麼一塊地方來做這樣的使用你最後一句話都不會講嗎\n\n12\n00:04:15,990 --> 00:04:36,533\n你們教育部完全不會講嗎?難道部長不能跟行政院長說你哪有限額進行做全民防衛,為什麼要拿這塊土地可以給更多年輕人來使用,可以給更多的時候來做佛化,教育部一句話都不講嗎?更何況你們去年你們教育部長還信誓旦旦,總統還信誓旦旦,這些都可以當作是我們的社會住宅,教育部沒有意見嗎?所以我只能給你歸納。\n\n13\n00:04:37,774 --> 00:04:38,835\n部長,教育部沒有一句話嗎?部長\n\n14\n00:05:07,501 --> 00:05:27,109\n謝謝委員提醒,因為確實這一個我想社會住宅它當然是其中的一個選項之一,但這一個整個它過程裡邊我想我確實在進來以後在想說你9月24號才對外宣布,它去年12月就已經變成\n\n15\n00:05:29,230 --> 00:05:38,113\n他進行了一段的一個時間,我想許多的一個決策我是尊重他的一個原形。你是尊重,我們一點都不想,我只告訴你,這麼樣一塊的地方,我還是強調,你不要當作合法強盜,拱手讓給內政部,讓給中央單位,然後不要做出這個錯誤的決定,有很多地方可以來做你的軍營民營的這個方式來去做。\n\n16\n00:05:51,078 --> 00:05:51,198\n﹚柯志恩\n\n17\n00:06:11,272 --> 00:06:18,155\n你每一年編700萬喔你編700萬喔請問這樣的中心怎麼樣協助學校的轉型我們再往下看我要的資料你們告訴我說他可以來提供這些服務這些可以提供這些服務請問他提供了哪一些這些如果你還要再花700萬把它委託出去然後來做一個退場的這個校地的使用如果做的成功我要你計時司跟高教室幹嘛每年編700萬請問做了什麼績效出來\n\n18\n00:06:39,685 --> 00:06:45,719\n我不是否定這個中心只是你每一年花了700萬委託我到最後不是社宅還變成軍營這700萬請問在做什麼\n\n19\n00:06:51,940 --> 00:07:12,700\n跟委員報告我們對於私校退場有兩個計畫在執行,一個是在退場前,抱歉,退場前對於學校的一個轉型補打。市長,你的話非常多,我時間非常缺,因為今天主席,我要尊重時間。但是呢,你只告訴我,700萬做的這些事情,高教師計時都做不到嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:14,363 --> 00:07:25,150\n各位報告這個是要一串的一個輔導我會把詳細資料準備還會跟委員報告非常告訴我否則我們在審預算的時候我們就好好來看一下你到底這個700萬到底要是怎麼樣說我們好好來審查接下來還是一句話等一下要凍結要解凍你就告訴我你還寫的一個針對中州科大九校\n\n21\n00:07:34,455 --> 00:07:36,516\n校園到底安不安心?從112年到110年增加的六成,我們大專學生被騙,增加一倍以上。\n\n22\n00:07:58,530 --> 00:08:04,816\n青少年涉入這個炸的我們一天到晚都說我們要打炸你看看這個數據110年到這個部分裡面整個青少年涉入的人數去詐騙的人數變成嫌疑犯者增加了幾乎是95%\n\n23\n00:08:15,246 --> 00:08:31,491\n所以你看得出來嘛你看少年犯罪多而且你看他前面所做的工作是什麼車手提供照賬戶交易糾紛而且呢很多都是三成錯學沒有就業的而且有很多7%是沒有就學或是沒有就業的\n\n24\n00:08:32,071 --> 00:08:49,525\n部長這個數字其實很觸目驚心我們往下看然後呢那時候警政署就提醒我們國教署要注意我們這些中輟學生但是呢我只要問一下為什麼到這五年來高中生休學跟學習喪失的比率卻是不斷的上升再看看下面的數據你看看\n\n25\n00:08:52,769 --> 00:09:16,753\n107年是4.96我們目前為止就根據數字欄裡面來說話高中輟學的比率增加這麼多再往下來看這個部分裡面為什麼會如此我把一中的網上部長跟相關的主管可以一次一次來我們所關切的一個議題哦你看高中生發生意外裡面110年大概2.9但是呢自殺的比率都要佔三成而且國中生最最多\n\n26\n00:09:17,293 --> 00:09:36,101\n你比對一下106年到111年光是這樣的比率來說的話你看多增加了5到10倍之多這個數字來說而且我們再看最後一張你看這些裡面我提到的這個自殺的數據當中八成四殺的學生完全沒有跟輔導士來求助每個學校都有輔導士孩子為什麼不願意求助為什麼\n\n27\n00:09:40,970 --> 00:09:51,693\n因為他怕被貼標籤他們在這裡面有太多太多的所以從這個部分裡面其實我要引到最後的部分裡面這麼樣的一個數字當中通報數字是過去的好幾倍我們學校的三級輔導的強化跟落實大家都能夠寄望這學輔法不管在師資不管在薪資不管在點數等等之類還有包括人員的穩定面對這麼多的學生的自殺自傷自殘的問題\n\n28\n00:10:09,617 --> 00:10:34,945\n到底現在目前結果是怎麼樣部長我想謝謝委員關心確實我進來其實我跟委員報告政府在這個防毒打詐我事實上是有積極建議的因為我們看到怎麼樣讓整個社會校園的環境包括霸凌這些等等的怎麼樣去有一個更友善的一個學習環境我其實在\n\n29\n00:10:35,805 --> 00:10:41,289\n部長我肯定你的積極我肯定你的積極但是我覺得行政院在這個金在這個錢的輔導的金錢上面顯然沒有配合你的積極他們非常的消極還是在護著覺得這些東西不能有額外的這樣的一個支出這就是我們為什麼學府法到目前為止還卡關的緣故對不對所以部長你的積極顯然不是你認知的積極你要更要的積極中的再積極\n\n30\n00:11:02,944 --> 00:11:05,165\n我們希望目前為止問題是你目前連經費都還沒有給我們下來我們現在目前為止都還在做這樣的一個協商但是就我理解協商目前考官原因就是還是來自經費的問題\n\n31\n00:11:25,496 --> 00:11:25,596\n林倩瑾議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4980\t8803\t謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,那個部長請。好,我們節省時間啊,部長。我們的業務報告裡面第23頁裡面有提到私校轉型,高峰學院變成國小,南榮科技大學雙語國小,道江管理學院是長照中心,中州科大呢?中州科大去哪裡了?對啊,退場了,你們做了什麼用?\n33861\t53729\t您們退場做了什麼?內政部的全民國防的一個場合。好,全民國防。來,我們看下面一個。您剛出的時候,您9月24號就全部過給23.6億的校產,您過戶給我們中央,這是第一所。然後呢,您還做回什麼?前面,不要飄那麼快,前面。您過戶給我們什麼?做戶給我們全民防衛還有保二總隊的這個中隊來做使用。\n62572\t63153\t施效退場條例有哪一條告訴我你可以用全民防衛營的空間?\n89991\t92654\t74條,你如果把它清算完畢之後呢,辦理教育、文化、社會福利還有財團法人,而且你以辦理教育、文化、社會福利為限,哪一個條文告訴我你有全民防衛營區的空間?哪一個條文告訴我?\n106820\t110984\t跟委員報告這是私效法不是退場條例私效法裡面拿出來看一下而且我還要特別跟部長提到一件事情來我們往下來看不管是任何的總統候選人當初賴總統在政大高喊居住正義的時候呢\n123157\t135702\t就告訴我退場的場地是要做公益使用可以納入建造社會住宅從頭到尾都一直在提到這個層面來我們往下結果你選前是社會住宅你選後變成一個軍營所以這個部分來說的話更何況\n140464\t157101\t目前來說你說轉移給內政部好不好內政部目前內部的資料裡面你9月22都已經對外公告了目前為止還停留在文教區所以他到底你的整個使用區分是放在哪裡告訴我一下使用區分目前為止這塊地的使用區分是在哪裡\n160006\t164308\t跟委員報告我們目前退場條例你告訴我現在目前的使用區分到底在哪裡嗎使用區分目前是文教區那現在已經把產權移給我們內政部憑什麼憑什麼憑什麼要文改內政部依照退場條例我們的校產就是歸政府單位或是地方政府\n181676\t208866\t你當初的整個優先次序裡面條文這麼樣子而且我強調你在選前的時候信誓旦旦告訴我你有它的一個規列而且那個時候呢所有人都已經很明顯的知道為什麼大家會認為是中州原因很簡單嘛因為大家都從它的整個土地面積來看不管是它的6公頃的土地快速道路接近國號等等之類的它是最適合蓋社宅的然後呢你就拱手讓給\n210407\t210667\t一天到晚在罵財團是圖音結果呢\n236215\t240198\t最後一步拱手讓給內政部而且土地的使用區分目前都還沒有變更過來而且你看看國防部超過140億你不好好去火化你還任他佔用38年目前為止列管的空間還有這麼多地方115處你什麼都不用把你們這麼一塊地方來做這樣的使用你最後一句話都不會講嗎\n255990\t276533\t你們教育部完全不會講嗎?難道部長不能跟行政院長說你哪有限額進行做全民防衛,為什麼要拿這塊土地可以給更多年輕人來使用,可以給更多的時候來做佛化,教育部一句話都不講嗎?更何況你們去年你們教育部長還信誓旦旦,總統還信誓旦旦,這些都可以當作是我們的社會住宅,教育部沒有意見嗎?所以我只能給你歸納。\n277774\t278835\t部長,教育部沒有一句話嗎?部長\n307501\t327109\t謝謝委員提醒,因為確實這一個我想社會住宅它當然是其中的一個選項之一,但這一個整個它過程裡邊我想我確實在進來以後在想說你9月24號才對外宣布,它去年12月就已經變成\n329230\t338113\t他進行了一段的一個時間,我想許多的一個決策我是尊重他的一個原形。你是尊重,我們一點都不想,我只告訴你,這麼樣一塊的地方,我還是強調,你不要當作合法強盜,拱手讓給內政部,讓給中央單位,然後不要做出這個錯誤的決定,有很多地方可以來做你的軍營民營的這個方式來去做。\n351078\t351198\t﹚柯志恩\n371272\t378155\t你每一年編700萬喔你編700萬喔請問這樣的中心怎麼樣協助學校的轉型我們再往下看我要的資料你們告訴我說他可以來提供這些服務這些可以提供這些服務請問他提供了哪一些這些如果你還要再花700萬把它委託出去然後來做一個退場的這個校地的使用如果做的成功我要你計時司跟高教室幹嘛每年編700萬請問做了什麼績效出來\n399685\t405719\t我不是否定這個中心只是你每一年花了700萬委託我到最後不是社宅還變成軍營這700萬請問在做什麼\n411940\t432700\t跟委員報告我們對於私校退場有兩個計畫在執行,一個是在退場前,抱歉,退場前對於學校的一個轉型補打。市長,你的話非常多,我時間非常缺,因為今天主席,我要尊重時間。但是呢,你只告訴我,700萬做的這些事情,高教師計時都做不到嗎?\n434363\t445150\t各位報告這個是要一串的一個輔導我會把詳細資料準備還會跟委員報告非常告訴我否則我們在審預算的時候我們就好好來看一下你到底這個700萬到底要是怎麼樣說我們好好來審查接下來還是一句話等一下要凍結要解凍你就告訴我你還寫的一個針對中州科大九校\n454455\t456516\t校園到底安不安心?從112年到110年增加的六成,我們大專學生被騙,增加一倍以上。\n478530\t484816\t青少年涉入這個炸的我們一天到晚都說我們要打炸你看看這個數據110年到這個部分裡面整個青少年涉入的人數去詐騙的人數變成嫌疑犯者增加了幾乎是95%\n495246\t511491\t所以你看得出來嘛你看少年犯罪多而且你看他前面所做的工作是什麼車手提供照賬戶交易糾紛而且呢很多都是三成錯學沒有就業的而且有很多7%是沒有就學或是沒有就業的\n512071\t529525\t部長這個數字其實很觸目驚心我們往下看然後呢那時候警政署就提醒我們國教署要注意我們這些中輟學生但是呢我只要問一下為什麼到這五年來高中生休學跟學習喪失的比率卻是不斷的上升再看看下面的數據你看看\n532769\t556753\t107年是4.96我們目前為止就根據數字欄裡面來說話高中輟學的比率增加這麼多再往下來看這個部分裡面為什麼會如此我把一中的網上部長跟相關的主管可以一次一次來我們所關切的一個議題哦你看高中生發生意外裡面110年大概2.9但是呢自殺的比率都要佔三成而且國中生最最多\n557293\t576101\t你比對一下106年到111年光是這樣的比率來說的話你看多增加了5到10倍之多這個數字來說而且我們再看最後一張你看這些裡面我提到的這個自殺的數據當中八成四殺的學生完全沒有跟輔導士來求助每個學校都有輔導士孩子為什麼不願意求助為什麼\n580970\t591693\t因為他怕被貼標籤他們在這裡面有太多太多的所以從這個部分裡面其實我要引到最後的部分裡面這麼樣的一個數字當中通報數字是過去的好幾倍我們學校的三級輔導的強化跟落實大家都能夠寄望這學輔法不管在師資不管在薪資不管在點數等等之類還有包括人員的穩定面對這麼多的學生的自殺自傷自殘的問題\n609617\t634945\t到底現在目前結果是怎麼樣部長我想謝謝委員關心確實我進來其實我跟委員報告政府在這個防毒打詐我事實上是有積極建議的因為我們看到怎麼樣讓整個社會校園的環境包括霸凌這些等等的怎麼樣去有一個更友善的一個學習環境我其實在\n635805\t641289\t部長我肯定你的積極我肯定你的積極但是我覺得行政院在這個金在這個錢的輔導的金錢上面顯然沒有配合你的積極他們非常的消極還是在護著覺得這些東西不能有額外的這樣的一個支出這就是我們為什麼學府法到目前為止還卡關的緣故對不對所以部長你的積極顯然不是你認知的積極你要更要的積極中的再積極\n662944\t665165\t我們希望目前為止問題是你目前連經費都還沒有給我們下來我們現在目前為止都還在做這樣的一個協商但是就我理解協商目前考官原因就是還是來自經費的問題\n685496\t685596\t林倩瑾議員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,那個部長請。好,我們節省時間啊,部長。我們的業務報告裡面第23頁裡面有提到私校轉型,高峰學院變成國小,南榮科技大學雙語國小,道江管理學院是長照中心,中州科大呢?中州科大去哪裡了?對啊,退場了,你們做了什麼用?\n您們退場做了什麼?內政部的全民國防的一個場合。好,全民國防。來,我們看下面一個。您剛出的時候,您9月24號就全部過給23.6億的校產,您過戶給我們中央,這是第一所。然後呢,您還做回什麼?前面,不要飄那麼快,前面。您過戶給我們什麼?做戶給我們全民防衛還有保二總隊的這個中隊來做使用。\n施效退場條例有哪一條告訴我你可以用全民防衛營的空間?\n74條,你如果把它清算完畢之後呢,辦理教育、文化、社會福利還有財團法人,而且你以辦理教育、文化、社會福利為限,哪一個條文告訴我你有全民防衛營區的空間?哪一個條文告訴我?\n跟委員報告這是私效法不是退場條例私效法裡面拿出來看一下而且我還要特別跟部長提到一件事情來我們往下來看不管是任何的總統候選人當初賴總統在政大高喊居住正義的時候呢\n就告訴我退場的場地是要做公益使用可以納入建造社會住宅從頭到尾都一直在提到這個層面來我們往下結果你選前是社會住宅你選後變成一個軍營所以這個部分來說的話更何況\n目前來說你說轉移給內政部好不好內政部目前內部的資料裡面你9月22都已經對外公告了目前為止還停留在文教區所以他到底你的整個使用區分是放在哪裡告訴我一下使用區分目前為止這塊地的使用區分是在哪裡\n跟委員報告我們目前退場條例你告訴我現在目前的使用區分到底在哪裡嗎使用區分目前是文教區那現在已經把產權移給我們內政部憑什麼憑什麼憑什麼要文改內政部依照退場條例我們的校產就是歸政府單位或是地方政府\n你當初的整個優先次序裡面條文這麼樣子而且我強調你在選前的時候信誓旦旦告訴我你有它的一個規列而且那個時候呢所有人都已經很明顯的知道為什麼大家會認為是中州原因很簡單嘛因為大家都從它的整個土地面積來看不管是它的6公頃的土地快速道路接近國號等等之類的它是最適合蓋社宅的然後呢你就拱手讓給\n一天到晚在罵財團是圖音結果呢\n最後一步拱手讓給內政部而且土地的使用區分目前都還沒有變更過來而且你看看國防部超過140億你不好好去火化你還任他佔用38年目前為止列管的空間還有這麼多地方115處你什麼都不用把你們這麼一塊地方來做這樣的使用你最後一句話都不會講嗎\n你們教育部完全不會講嗎?難道部長不能跟行政院長說你哪有限額進行做全民防衛,為什麼要拿這塊土地可以給更多年輕人來使用,可以給更多的時候來做佛化,教育部一句話都不講嗎?更何況你們去年你們教育部長還信誓旦旦,總統還信誓旦旦,這些都可以當作是我們的社會住宅,教育部沒有意見嗎?所以我只能給你歸納。\n部長,教育部沒有一句話嗎?部長\n謝謝委員提醒,因為確實這一個我想社會住宅它當然是其中的一個選項之一,但這一個整個它過程裡邊我想我確實在進來以後在想說你9月24號才對外宣布,它去年12月就已經變成\n他進行了一段的一個時間,我想許多的一個決策我是尊重他的一個原形。你是尊重,我們一點都不想,我只告訴你,這麼樣一塊的地方,我還是強調,你不要當作合法強盜,拱手讓給內政部,讓給中央單位,然後不要做出這個錯誤的決定,有很多地方可以來做你的軍營民營的這個方式來去做。\n﹚柯志恩\n你每一年編700萬喔你編700萬喔請問這樣的中心怎麼樣協助學校的轉型我們再往下看我要的資料你們告訴我說他可以來提供這些服務這些可以提供這些服務請問他提供了哪一些這些如果你還要再花700萬把它委託出去然後來做一個退場的這個校地的使用如果做的成功我要你計時司跟高教室幹嘛每年編700萬請問做了什麼績效出來\n我不是否定這個中心只是你每一年花了700萬委託我到最後不是社宅還變成軍營這700萬請問在做什麼\n跟委員報告我們對於私校退場有兩個計畫在執行,一個是在退場前,抱歉,退場前對於學校的一個轉型補打。市長,你的話非常多,我時間非常缺,因為今天主席,我要尊重時間。但是呢,你只告訴我,700萬做的這些事情,高教師計時都做不到嗎?\n各位報告這個是要一串的一個輔導我會把詳細資料準備還會跟委員報告非常告訴我否則我們在審預算的時候我們就好好來看一下你到底這個700萬到底要是怎麼樣說我們好好來審查接下來還是一句話等一下要凍結要解凍你就告訴我你還寫的一個針對中州科大九校\n校園到底安不安心?從112年到110年增加的六成,我們大專學生被騙,增加一倍以上。\n青少年涉入這個炸的我們一天到晚都說我們要打炸你看看這個數據110年到這個部分裡面整個青少年涉入的人數去詐騙的人數變成嫌疑犯者增加了幾乎是95%\n所以你看得出來嘛你看少年犯罪多而且你看他前面所做的工作是什麼車手提供照賬戶交易糾紛而且呢很多都是三成錯學沒有就業的而且有很多7%是沒有就學或是沒有就業的\n部長這個數字其實很觸目驚心我們往下看然後呢那時候警政署就提醒我們國教署要注意我們這些中輟學生但是呢我只要問一下為什麼到這五年來高中生休學跟學習喪失的比率卻是不斷的上升再看看下面的數據你看看\n107年是4.96我們目前為止就根據數字欄裡面來說話高中輟學的比率增加這麼多再往下來看這個部分裡面為什麼會如此我把一中的網上部長跟相關的主管可以一次一次來我們所關切的一個議題哦你看高中生發生意外裡面110年大概2.9但是呢自殺的比率都要佔三成而且國中生最最多\n你比對一下106年到111年光是這樣的比率來說的話你看多增加了5到10倍之多這個數字來說而且我們再看最後一張你看這些裡面我提到的這個自殺的數據當中八成四殺的學生完全沒有跟輔導士來求助每個學校都有輔導士孩子為什麼不願意求助為什麼\n因為他怕被貼標籤他們在這裡面有太多太多的所以從這個部分裡面其實我要引到最後的部分裡面這麼樣的一個數字當中通報數字是過去的好幾倍我們學校的三級輔導的強化跟落實大家都能夠寄望這學輔法不管在師資不管在薪資不管在點數等等之類還有包括人員的穩定面對這麼多的學生的自殺自傷自殘的問題\n到底現在目前結果是怎麼樣部長我想謝謝委員關心確實我進來其實我跟委員報告政府在這個防毒打詐我事實上是有積極建議的因為我們看到怎麼樣讓整個社會校園的環境包括霸凌這些等等的怎麼樣去有一個更友善的一個學習環境我其實在\n部長我肯定你的積極我肯定你的積極但是我覺得行政院在這個金在這個錢的輔導的金錢上面顯然沒有配合你的積極他們非常的消極還是在護著覺得這些東西不能有額外的這樣的一個支出這就是我們為什麼學府法到目前為止還卡關的緣故對不對所以部長你的積極顯然不是你認知的積極你要更要的積極中的再積極\n我們希望目前為止問題是你目前連經費都還沒有給我們下來我們現在目前為止都還在做這樣的一個協商但是就我理解協商目前考官原因就是還是來自經費的問題\n林倩瑾議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.980 --> 00:08.803\n謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,那個部長請。好,我們節省時間啊,部長。我們的業務報告裡面第23頁裡面有提到私校轉型,高峰學院變成國小,南榮科技大學雙語國小,道江管理學院是長照中心,中州科大呢?中州科大去哪裡了?對啊,退場了,你們做了什麼用?\n\n00:33.861 --> 00:53.729\n您們退場做了什麼?內政部的全民國防的一個場合。好,全民國防。來,我們看下面一個。您剛出的時候,您9月24號就全部過給23.6億的校產,您過戶給我們中央,這是第一所。然後呢,您還做回什麼?前面,不要飄那麼快,前面。您過戶給我們什麼?做戶給我們全民防衛還有保二總隊的這個中隊來做使用。\n\n01:02.572 --> 01:03.153\n施效退場條例有哪一條告訴我你可以用全民防衛營的空間?\n\n01:29.991 --> 01:32.654\n74條,你如果把它清算完畢之後呢,辦理教育、文化、社會福利還有財團法人,而且你以辦理教育、文化、社會福利為限,哪一個條文告訴我你有全民防衛營區的空間?哪一個條文告訴我?\n\n01:46.820 --> 01:50.984\n跟委員報告這是私效法不是退場條例私效法裡面拿出來看一下而且我還要特別跟部長提到一件事情來我們往下來看不管是任何的總統候選人當初賴總統在政大高喊居住正義的時候呢\n\n02:03.157 --> 02:15.702\n就告訴我退場的場地是要做公益使用可以納入建造社會住宅從頭到尾都一直在提到這個層面來我們往下結果你選前是社會住宅你選後變成一個軍營所以這個部分來說的話更何況\n\n02:20.464 --> 02:37.101\n目前來說你說轉移給內政部好不好內政部目前內部的資料裡面你9月22都已經對外公告了目前為止還停留在文教區所以他到底你的整個使用區分是放在哪裡告訴我一下使用區分目前為止這塊地的使用區分是在哪裡\n\n02:40.006 --> 02:44.308\n跟委員報告我們目前退場條例你告訴我現在目前的使用區分到底在哪裡嗎使用區分目前是文教區那現在已經把產權移給我們內政部憑什麼憑什麼憑什麼要文改內政部依照退場條例我們的校產就是歸政府單位或是地方政府\n\n03:01.676 --> 03:28.866\n你當初的整個優先次序裡面條文這麼樣子而且我強調你在選前的時候信誓旦旦告訴我你有它的一個規列而且那個時候呢所有人都已經很明顯的知道為什麼大家會認為是中州原因很簡單嘛因為大家都從它的整個土地面積來看不管是它的6公頃的土地快速道路接近國號等等之類的它是最適合蓋社宅的然後呢你就拱手讓給\n\n03:30.407 --> 03:30.667\n一天到晚在罵財團是圖音結果呢\n\n03:56.215 --> 04:00.198\n最後一步拱手讓給內政部而且土地的使用區分目前都還沒有變更過來而且你看看國防部超過140億你不好好去火化你還任他佔用38年目前為止列管的空間還有這麼多地方115處你什麼都不用把你們這麼一塊地方來做這樣的使用你最後一句話都不會講嗎\n\n04:15.990 --> 04:36.533\n你們教育部完全不會講嗎?難道部長不能跟行政院長說你哪有限額進行做全民防衛,為什麼要拿這塊土地可以給更多年輕人來使用,可以給更多的時候來做佛化,教育部一句話都不講嗎?更何況你們去年你們教育部長還信誓旦旦,總統還信誓旦旦,這些都可以當作是我們的社會住宅,教育部沒有意見嗎?所以我只能給你歸納。\n\n04:37.774 --> 04:38.835\n部長,教育部沒有一句話嗎?部長\n\n05:07.501 --> 05:27.109\n謝謝委員提醒,因為確實這一個我想社會住宅它當然是其中的一個選項之一,但這一個整個它過程裡邊我想我確實在進來以後在想說你9月24號才對外宣布,它去年12月就已經變成\n\n05:29.230 --> 05:38.113\n他進行了一段的一個時間,我想許多的一個決策我是尊重他的一個原形。你是尊重,我們一點都不想,我只告訴你,這麼樣一塊的地方,我還是強調,你不要當作合法強盜,拱手讓給內政部,讓給中央單位,然後不要做出這個錯誤的決定,有很多地方可以來做你的軍營民營的這個方式來去做。\n\n05:51.078 --> 05:51.198\n﹚柯志恩\n\n06:11.272 --> 06:18.155\n你每一年編700萬喔你編700萬喔請問這樣的中心怎麼樣協助學校的轉型我們再往下看我要的資料你們告訴我說他可以來提供這些服務這些可以提供這些服務請問他提供了哪一些這些如果你還要再花700萬把它委託出去然後來做一個退場的這個校地的使用如果做的成功我要你計時司跟高教室幹嘛每年編700萬請問做了什麼績效出來\n\n06:39.685 --> 06:45.719\n我不是否定這個中心只是你每一年花了700萬委託我到最後不是社宅還變成軍營這700萬請問在做什麼\n\n06:51.940 --> 07:12.700\n跟委員報告我們對於私校退場有兩個計畫在執行,一個是在退場前,抱歉,退場前對於學校的一個轉型補打。市長,你的話非常多,我時間非常缺,因為今天主席,我要尊重時間。但是呢,你只告訴我,700萬做的這些事情,高教師計時都做不到嗎?\n\n07:14.363 --> 07:25.150\n各位報告這個是要一串的一個輔導我會把詳細資料準備還會跟委員報告非常告訴我否則我們在審預算的時候我們就好好來看一下你到底這個700萬到底要是怎麼樣說我們好好來審查接下來還是一句話等一下要凍結要解凍你就告訴我你還寫的一個針對中州科大九校\n\n07:34.455 --> 07:36.516\n校園到底安不安心?從112年到110年增加的六成,我們大專學生被騙,增加一倍以上。\n\n07:58.530 --> 08:04.816\n青少年涉入這個炸的我們一天到晚都說我們要打炸你看看這個數據110年到這個部分裡面整個青少年涉入的人數去詐騙的人數變成嫌疑犯者增加了幾乎是95%\n\n08:15.246 --> 08:31.491\n所以你看得出來嘛你看少年犯罪多而且你看他前面所做的工作是什麼車手提供照賬戶交易糾紛而且呢很多都是三成錯學沒有就業的而且有很多7%是沒有就學或是沒有就業的\n\n08:32.071 --> 08:49.525\n部長這個數字其實很觸目驚心我們往下看然後呢那時候警政署就提醒我們國教署要注意我們這些中輟學生但是呢我只要問一下為什麼到這五年來高中生休學跟學習喪失的比率卻是不斷的上升再看看下面的數據你看看\n\n08:52.769 --> 09:16.753\n107年是4.96我們目前為止就根據數字欄裡面來說話高中輟學的比率增加這麼多再往下來看這個部分裡面為什麼會如此我把一中的網上部長跟相關的主管可以一次一次來我們所關切的一個議題哦你看高中生發生意外裡面110年大概2.9但是呢自殺的比率都要佔三成而且國中生最最多\n\n09:17.293 --> 09:36.101\n你比對一下106年到111年光是這樣的比率來說的話你看多增加了5到10倍之多這個數字來說而且我們再看最後一張你看這些裡面我提到的這個自殺的數據當中八成四殺的學生完全沒有跟輔導士來求助每個學校都有輔導士孩子為什麼不願意求助為什麼\n\n09:40.970 --> 09:51.693\n因為他怕被貼標籤他們在這裡面有太多太多的所以從這個部分裡面其實我要引到最後的部分裡面這麼樣的一個數字當中通報數字是過去的好幾倍我們學校的三級輔導的強化跟落實大家都能夠寄望這學輔法不管在師資不管在薪資不管在點數等等之類還有包括人員的穩定面對這麼多的學生的自殺自傷自殘的問題\n\n10:09.617 --> 10:34.945\n到底現在目前結果是怎麼樣部長我想謝謝委員關心確實我進來其實我跟委員報告政府在這個防毒打詐我事實上是有積極建議的因為我們看到怎麼樣讓整個社會校園的環境包括霸凌這些等等的怎麼樣去有一個更友善的一個學習環境我其實在\n\n10:35.805 --> 10:41.289\n部長我肯定你的積極我肯定你的積極但是我覺得行政院在這個金在這個錢的輔導的金錢上面顯然沒有配合你的積極他們非常的消極還是在護著覺得這些東西不能有額外的這樣的一個支出這就是我們為什麼學府法到目前為止還卡關的緣故對不對所以部長你的積極顯然不是你認知的積極你要更要的積極中的再積極\n\n11:02.944 --> 11:05.165\n我們希望目前為止問題是你目前連經費都還沒有給我們下來我們現在目前為止都還在做這樣的一個協商但是就我理解協商目前考官原因就是還是來自經費的問題\n\n11:25.496 --> 11:25.596\n林倩瑾議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.98,"end":8.803,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請部長。好,那個部長請。好,我們節省時間啊,部長。我們的業務報告裡面第23頁裡面有提到私校轉型,高峰學院變成國小,南榮科技大學雙語國小,道江管理學院是長照中心,中州科大呢?中州科大去哪裡了?對啊,退場了,你們做了什麼用?"},{"start":33.861,"end":53.729,"text":"您們退場做了什麼?內政部的全民國防的一個場合。好,全民國防。來,我們看下面一個。您剛出的時候,您9月24號就全部過給23.6億的校產,您過戶給我們中央,這是第一所。然後呢,您還做回什麼?前面,不要飄那麼快,前面。您過戶給我們什麼?做戶給我們全民防衛還有保二總隊的這個中隊來做使用。"},{"start":62.572,"end":63.153,"text":"施效退場條例有哪一條告訴我你可以用全民防衛營的空間?"},{"start":89.991,"end":92.654,"text":"74條,你如果把它清算完畢之後呢,辦理教育、文化、社會福利還有財團法人,而且你以辦理教育、文化、社會福利為限,哪一個條文告訴我你有全民防衛營區的空間?哪一個條文告訴我?"},{"start":106.82,"end":110.984,"text":"跟委員報告這是私效法不是退場條例私效法裡面拿出來看一下而且我還要特別跟部長提到一件事情來我們往下來看不管是任何的總統候選人當初賴總統在政大高喊居住正義的時候呢"},{"start":123.157,"end":135.702,"text":"就告訴我退場的場地是要做公益使用可以納入建造社會住宅從頭到尾都一直在提到這個層面來我們往下結果你選前是社會住宅你選後變成一個軍營所以這個部分來說的話更何況"},{"start":140.464,"end":157.101,"text":"目前來說你說轉移給內政部好不好內政部目前內部的資料裡面你9月22都已經對外公告了目前為止還停留在文教區所以他到底你的整個使用區分是放在哪裡告訴我一下使用區分目前為止這塊地的使用區分是在哪裡"},{"start":160.006,"end":164.308,"text":"跟委員報告我們目前退場條例你告訴我現在目前的使用區分到底在哪裡嗎使用區分目前是文教區那現在已經把產權移給我們內政部憑什麼憑什麼憑什麼要文改內政部依照退場條例我們的校產就是歸政府單位或是地方政府"},{"start":181.676,"end":208.866,"text":"你當初的整個優先次序裡面條文這麼樣子而且我強調你在選前的時候信誓旦旦告訴我你有它的一個規列而且那個時候呢所有人都已經很明顯的知道為什麼大家會認為是中州原因很簡單嘛因為大家都從它的整個土地面積來看不管是它的6公頃的土地快速道路接近國號等等之類的它是最適合蓋社宅的然後呢你就拱手讓給"},{"start":210.407,"end":210.667,"text":"一天到晚在罵財團是圖音結果呢"},{"start":236.215,"end":240.198,"text":"最後一步拱手讓給內政部而且土地的使用區分目前都還沒有變更過來而且你看看國防部超過140億你不好好去火化你還任他佔用38年目前為止列管的空間還有這麼多地方115處你什麼都不用把你們這麼一塊地方來做這樣的使用你最後一句話都不會講嗎"},{"start":255.99,"end":276.533,"text":"你們教育部完全不會講嗎?難道部長不能跟行政院長說你哪有限額進行做全民防衛,為什麼要拿這塊土地可以給更多年輕人來使用,可以給更多的時候來做佛化,教育部一句話都不講嗎?更何況你們去年你們教育部長還信誓旦旦,總統還信誓旦旦,這些都可以當作是我們的社會住宅,教育部沒有意見嗎?所以我只能給你歸納。"},{"start":277.774,"end":278.835,"text":"部長,教育部沒有一句話嗎?部長"},{"start":307.501,"end":327.109,"text":"謝謝委員提醒,因為確實這一個我想社會住宅它當然是其中的一個選項之一,但這一個整個它過程裡邊我想我確實在進來以後在想說你9月24號才對外宣布,它去年12月就已經變成"},{"start":329.23,"end":338.113,"text":"他進行了一段的一個時間,我想許多的一個決策我是尊重他的一個原形。你是尊重,我們一點都不想,我只告訴你,這麼樣一塊的地方,我還是強調,你不要當作合法強盜,拱手讓給內政部,讓給中央單位,然後不要做出這個錯誤的決定,有很多地方可以來做你的軍營民營的這個方式來去做。"},{"start":351.078,"end":351.198,"text":"﹚柯志恩"},{"start":371.272,"end":378.155,"text":"你每一年編700萬喔你編700萬喔請問這樣的中心怎麼樣協助學校的轉型我們再往下看我要的資料你們告訴我說他可以來提供這些服務這些可以提供這些服務請問他提供了哪一些這些如果你還要再花700萬把它委託出去然後來做一個退場的這個校地的使用如果做的成功我要你計時司跟高教室幹嘛每年編700萬請問做了什麼績效出來"},{"start":399.685,"end":405.719,"text":"我不是否定這個中心只是你每一年花了700萬委託我到最後不是社宅還變成軍營這700萬請問在做什麼"},{"start":411.94,"end":432.7,"text":"跟委員報告我們對於私校退場有兩個計畫在執行,一個是在退場前,抱歉,退場前對於學校的一個轉型補打。市長,你的話非常多,我時間非常缺,因為今天主席,我要尊重時間。但是呢,你只告訴我,700萬做的這些事情,高教師計時都做不到嗎?"},{"start":434.363,"end":445.15,"text":"各位報告這個是要一串的一個輔導我會把詳細資料準備還會跟委員報告非常告訴我否則我們在審預算的時候我們就好好來看一下你到底這個700萬到底要是怎麼樣說我們好好來審查接下來還是一句話等一下要凍結要解凍你就告訴我你還寫的一個針對中州科大九校"},{"start":454.455,"end":456.516,"text":"校園到底安不安心?從112年到110年增加的六成,我們大專學生被騙,增加一倍以上。"},{"start":478.53,"end":484.816,"text":"青少年涉入這個炸的我們一天到晚都說我們要打炸你看看這個數據110年到這個部分裡面整個青少年涉入的人數去詐騙的人數變成嫌疑犯者增加了幾乎是95%"},{"start":495.246,"end":511.491,"text":"所以你看得出來嘛你看少年犯罪多而且你看他前面所做的工作是什麼車手提供照賬戶交易糾紛而且呢很多都是三成錯學沒有就業的而且有很多7%是沒有就學或是沒有就業的"},{"start":512.071,"end":529.525,"text":"部長這個數字其實很觸目驚心我們往下看然後呢那時候警政署就提醒我們國教署要注意我們這些中輟學生但是呢我只要問一下為什麼到這五年來高中生休學跟學習喪失的比率卻是不斷的上升再看看下面的數據你看看"},{"start":532.769,"end":556.753,"text":"107年是4.96我們目前為止就根據數字欄裡面來說話高中輟學的比率增加這麼多再往下來看這個部分裡面為什麼會如此我把一中的網上部長跟相關的主管可以一次一次來我們所關切的一個議題哦你看高中生發生意外裡面110年大概2.9但是呢自殺的比率都要佔三成而且國中生最最多"},{"start":557.293,"end":576.101,"text":"你比對一下106年到111年光是這樣的比率來說的話你看多增加了5到10倍之多這個數字來說而且我們再看最後一張你看這些裡面我提到的這個自殺的數據當中八成四殺的學生完全沒有跟輔導士來求助每個學校都有輔導士孩子為什麼不願意求助為什麼"},{"start":580.97,"end":591.693,"text":"因為他怕被貼標籤他們在這裡面有太多太多的所以從這個部分裡面其實我要引到最後的部分裡面這麼樣的一個數字當中通報數字是過去的好幾倍我們學校的三級輔導的強化跟落實大家都能夠寄望這學輔法不管在師資不管在薪資不管在點數等等之類還有包括人員的穩定面對這麼多的學生的自殺自傷自殘的問題"},{"start":609.617,"end":634.945,"text":"到底現在目前結果是怎麼樣部長我想謝謝委員關心確實我進來其實我跟委員報告政府在這個防毒打詐我事實上是有積極建議的因為我們看到怎麼樣讓整個社會校園的環境包括霸凌這些等等的怎麼樣去有一個更友善的一個學習環境我其實在"},{"start":635.805,"end":641.289,"text":"部長我肯定你的積極我肯定你的積極但是我覺得行政院在這個金在這個錢的輔導的金錢上面顯然沒有配合你的積極他們非常的消極還是在護著覺得這些東西不能有額外的這樣的一個支出這就是我們為什麼學府法到目前為止還卡關的緣故對不對所以部長你的積極顯然不是你認知的積極你要更要的積極中的再積極"},{"start":662.944,"end":665.165,"text":"我們希望目前為止問題是你目前連經費都還沒有給我們下來我們現在目前為止都還在做這樣的一個協商但是就我理解協商目前考官原因就是還是來自經費的問題"},{"start":685.496,"end":685.596,"text":"林倩瑾議員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-4","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:44:53 - 09:56:31","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案11案。）","id":155507,"gazette":{"lineno":259,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時45分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：好，我們節省時間，部長，業務報告裡面第23頁有提到私校轉型，高鳳學院變成國小；南榮科技大學是雙語國小；稻江管理學院是長照中心；中州科大呢？中州科大去哪裡了？"],["楊司長玉惠：退場。"],["柯委員志恩：對，它退場了，你們做為什麼用？你們退場做了什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：內政部全民國防的一個場地。"],["柯委員志恩：好，全民國防，當初9月24號時把23.6億的校產全部過戶給我們中央，這是第一所，然後你要做為什麼？是過戶給內政部，作為全民防衛還有保二總隊機動中隊使用，是不是？沒有錯吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["柯委員志恩：部長，你點頭了，這個部分，你難道不知道當初在中州科大的時候，我們是做了多少的一個討論。在潘部長的時候，我不知道他有沒有跟你們做移交，他認為將是全臺首間改為社會住宅的退場私校。好，我們退一萬步想，來看看私校退場條例，告訴我有哪一條你可以用做全民防衛營的空間？依據私校法第七十四條，如果把它清算完畢之後，辦理教育、文化、社會福利事業之財團法人……而且以辦理教育文化、社會福利為限，告訴我哪一個條文你有全民防衛營區的空間？哪一個條文告訴我？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，這是私校法，不是退場條條例，所以……"],["柯委員志恩：私校法裡面拿出來看一下，而且我還要特別跟部長提到一件事情，不管是任何的總統候選人，當初賴總統在政大演講高喊居住正義的時候，就告訴大家退場的場地是要做公益使用，可以納入建造社會住宅，從頭到尾都一直提到這個層面，結果選前是社會住宅，選後變成一個軍營！更何況目前來講，你說轉移給內政部，你們9月24日都已經對外公告的資訊，在內政部內部的資料裡面，目前為止還停留在文教區，所以到底你整個使用分區是放在哪裡？告訴我一下使用分區，目前為止，這一塊地的使用分區是在哪裡？"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，我們目前退場條例規定的……"],["柯委員志恩：你告訴我目前的使用分區到底在哪裡嘛？"],["楊司長玉惠：使用分區目前是文教區，現在已經把產權移給內政部，因為內政部要去做……"],["柯委員志恩：憑什麼？憑什麼？憑什麼？憑什麼要移給內政部，告訴我！"],["楊司長玉惠：依照退場條例，我們的校產就是歸政府單位或是地方政府。"],["柯委員志恩：你當初整個優先次序裡面，條文是這個樣子，而且我強調，在選前的時候信誓旦旦告訴我，你有它的一個歸列，而且所有人都已經很明顯的知道，為什麼大家會認為是中州？原因很簡單嘛！因為大家都從它整個土地面積來看，不管是它6公頃的土地、快速道路、接近國道等等之類的，它是最適合蓋社宅的，然後你就拱手讓給內政部，讓它轉變成所謂的軍營來做使用。還有很重要的一個部分，難道你們不知道嗎？你要做全民防衛，我沒有意見，但是我們現在國防部有非常多可以活化的土地啊！你要弄這個活化給黑熊學院，我沒有意見，但是土地是全民的資產，根據你的法規，你不要變成一個搶地的禿鷹，一天到晚在罵財團是禿鷹，結果教育部拱手讓給內政部，而且土地的使用分區目前都還沒有變更過來。並且你看看，國防部精華土地不活化部分超過一百四十億元，不好好去活化還任它占用38年，目前為止他們列管的空置空間還有這麼多地方，有115處了為什麼都不用？把我們這麼一塊地方來做這樣的使用，教育部一句話都不會講嗎？你們教育部完全不會講嗎？難道部長不能跟行政院長說拿現有的軍營做全民防衛，為什麼要拿這塊土地？這個可以給更多年輕人來使用，有更多土地可以來做活化，教育部一句話都不講嗎？更何況你們去年教育部長還信誓旦旦、總統還信誓旦旦，這些都可以當作我們的社會住宅，教育部沒有意見嗎？","所以我只能跟你歸納，中州退場的四個騙局，「選前是社宅，選後變軍營」，告訴我要照顧年輕人，但你連社宅都不給，還告訴我因為它離臺中市政府很遠要35分鐘，一直告訴我這是偏遠。並且私校法轉型退場的選項都是屬於教育文化、社會福利，到了政府的手上，愛做什麼就做什麼，部長！教育部沒有一句話嗎？部長！"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，我想社會住宅當然是其中選項之一，但整個過程裡面，我想我確實在進來以後，在想說它……"],["柯委員志恩：你9月24號才對外宣布。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["柯委員志恩：它去年12月就已經用第二預備金了。"],["鄭部長英耀：它進行了一段的時間，我想許多的決策我是尊重其延續性。"],["柯委員志恩：你是尊重，我們一點都不想，我只告訴你這麼樣一塊的地方，我還是強調，你不要當合法強盜，拱手讓給內政部、讓給中央單位，然後不要做出這個錯誤的決定，有很多地方可以來做軍營，不要讓教育部背負這樣的一個惡名。","接下來還是跟私校有關，這個我不講了，剛剛已經講很多了，你的配套當中，你花了700萬請了金屬工業中心籌組專家團隊來做評估，我知道金屬工業中心在高雄，人才非常的多，但是他熟悉私校退場嗎？你每一年編700萬，你編700萬喔！請問這樣的中心怎麼樣協助學校來轉型？我們再往下看，我要的資料，你們告訴我說，他可以來提供這些服務，請問他提供了哪一些？這些如果你還要再花700萬把它委託出去，然後來做一個退場的校地使用，如果做得成功，我要你技職司跟高教司幹嘛？每一年編700萬，請問做了什麼績效出來？我不是否定這個中心，只是你每一年花了700萬委託，委託到最後不是社宅，還變成軍營耶！這700萬請問在做什麼？"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，我們對於私校退場有兩個計畫在執行，一個是在退場前對於學校的轉型輔導……"],["柯委員志恩：好，司長，你的話非常多，我時間非常有限，因為今天主席給我……我要尊重時間，但是你只要告訴我，700萬做的這些事情，高教司、技職司都做不到嗎？"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，這個是要一串的輔導，我會把詳細資料……"],["柯委員志恩：你要先告訴我，否則我們在審預算的時候，我們就好好來看一下你這700萬到底要怎麼樣做，我們好好來審查。"],["楊司長玉惠：好，我會去委員辦公室報告。"],["柯委員志恩：接下來還是一句話，等一下要解凍，你就告訴我，你還寫了一個針對中州科大等9校校地的運用跟活化，我就要請問一下，你的活化的原則到底在哪裡？活化的原則在哪裡？更何況中州這一塊根本不叫活化，所以你的原則在哪裡，等一下跟本席來做一個說明。","還有一個很重要的議題，我們來看一下校園到底安不安心，你看從111年到112年增加了六成，我們大專學生被騙增加一倍以上；我們一天到晚都說我們要打詐，你看到這個數據，101年在這個部分裡面，整個青少年涉入的人數、詐騙的人數、變成嫌疑犯者增加了幾乎是95%，所以你看得出來嘛！你看少年犯最多，而且你看他前面所做的工作是什麼？車手、提供帳戶、交易糾紛，而且三成都是輟學沒有就業的，有7%是沒有就學或是沒有就業的，部長，這個數字其實很怵目驚心。","我們往下看，那時候警政署就提醒國教署要注意我們這些中輟學生，但是我只要問一下，為什麼這5年來，高中生休學跟學籍喪失的比率卻是不斷地上升？再看看下面的數據，你看107年是4.96%，我們目前為止根據數字來說的話，高中輟學的比率增加這麼多。再往下來看，為什麼會如此？我讓部長跟相關的主管可以一次來看我們所關切的議題，高中生發生意外裡面，110年大概是2.9萬，但是自殺的比率占了三成，而且國中生最多。你比對一下106年到111年，光是以這樣的比率來說的話，都增加了5到10倍之多。而且我們再看最後一張，這些我提到的自殺數據當中，八成自殺的學生完全沒有跟輔導室來求助，每個學校都有輔導室，孩子為什麼不願意求助？為什麼？因為他怕被貼標籤，他們在這裡面有太多太多的……","所以從這個部分我要引到最後的部分，這樣的一個數字當中，通報數字是過去的好幾倍，我們學校的三級輔導的強化跟落實，大家都能夠寄望著學輔法，不管在師資、不管在薪資、不管在點數等等之類，還有包括人員的穩定，面對這麼多學生的自殺、自傷、自殘的問題，到底目前的結果是怎麼樣？部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心，我跟委員報告，政府在防毒打詐上，我事實上是有積極建議的，怎麼樣讓整個社會、校園，包括霸凌等等有一個更友善的環境，我其實在院裡是有積極建議的。"],["柯委員志恩：好，部長，我肯定你的積極，但是我覺得行政院在輔導的金錢上面，顯然沒有配合你的積極，他們非常的消極，還是要護著，覺得這些東西不能有額外這樣的一個支出，這就是為什麼學輔法到目前為止還卡關的緣故，對不對？所以部長你的積極，顯然不是你認知的積極，你更要積極中的再積極。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，學輔法我們是希望它真的能夠真正……這個法令通過能夠對青少年的許多校園的輔導，形成一個支持的力量。"],["柯委員志恩：我們當然希望，問題是你目前連經費都還沒有給我們下來，我們到目前為止都還在做這樣的協商，但是就我理解，協商目前卡關的原因，就是還是來自經費的問題，這沒有辦法解決，就很多事情沒辦法解決。"],["主席：時間已經超過了，請部長後續再書面答復，或再跟柯委員辦公室說明。部長請回，謝謝柯志恩委員的質詢。","我們下一位林倩綺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":394,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-4","speakers":["范雲","萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","林倩綺","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","張雅琳","黃珊珊","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","楊瓊瓔","李昆澤","王鴻薇","吳宗憲","李坤城","吳春城","高金素梅","徐巧芯","葉元之","羅智強","翁曉玲","廖偉翔","林思銘","沈伯洋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","徐富癸","黃國昌","劉建國"],"page_start":305,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138401_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有\n關教育部主管預算解凍案11案","agenda_id":"1138401_00018"}}}