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\"start\": 435.924, \"end\": 435.944, \"score\": 0.997}]}, {\"start\": 436.804, \"end\": 438.866, \"text\": \"國安單位來做一個統合的單位或者是發起其他的會議包括您說這個報告已經給經濟部了什麼時候給經濟部的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 436.804, \"end\": 436.904, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 436.904, \"end\": 436.944, \"score\": 0.239}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 436.944, \"end\": 436.964, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 436.964, \"end\": 437.144, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 437.144, \"end\": 437.164, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 437.164, \"end\": 437.405, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 437.405, \"end\": 437.425, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 437.425, \"end\": 437.545, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 437.545, \"end\": 437.605, \"score\": 0.523}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 437.605, \"end\": 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\"end\": 482.995, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 482.995, \"end\": 483.035, \"score\": 0.507}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 483.035, \"end\": 483.435, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 483.435, \"end\": 483.976, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 483.976, \"end\": 484.096, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 484.096, \"end\": 484.416, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 484.416, \"end\": 484.776, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 484.776, \"end\": 484.997, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 484.997, \"end\": 485.137, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 485.137, \"end\": 485.277, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 485.277, \"end\": 485.717, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 485.717, \"end\": 485.857, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 485.857, \"end\": 486.258, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 486.258, \"end\": 486.458, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 486.458, \"end\": 486.898, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 486.898, \"end\": 487.038, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 487.038, \"end\": 487.239, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 487.239, \"end\": 487.939, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 487.939, \"end\": 488.139, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 488.139, \"end\": 488.28, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 488.28, \"end\": 488.3, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}]}, {\"start\": 489.941, \"end\": 517.684, \"text\": \"如果不是中國的品牌他也有可能是在零組件當中來自於中國而目前中國也是我們重要的進口的零件的部分那這個相關的部分還有另外一個除了經濟部之外那就是關稅如果說今天我們進口車是17%左右的關稅那麼在零組件當中尤其是從中國進口的零件從10%到17%不等那麼這些零件當中是不是也植入在我們的公務車的採購當中\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,472 --> 00:00:02,626\n謝謝主席主席邀請蔡局長來局長請\n\n2\n00:00:09,124 --> 00:00:37,470\n好謝謝主席林委員長主席早安局長早安剛剛羅美玲委員已經有特別針對在面對中國的軍演所引發的一些後續的觀察跟效應我想其實不只是中國對我們施以這個所謂武嚇文攻的部分其實同時也在測驗台灣的心戰跟認知作戰我不知道這個局長你同不同意這個說法是\n\n3\n00:00:37,930 --> 00:00:54,798\n我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在講就是我們這次的演習花很多時間在掌握中共的基建動態以外其他的時間都在因應所謂的認知作戰對可能認知作戰的部分我先舉兩個例子第一個是我們都知道中國其實是不能開YouTube的\n\n4\n00:00:55,538 --> 00:01:12,018\n但是他居然在一個叫做中興網直播整個聯合力建2024B的過程這個其實是給全世界看包括台灣看尤其是他還說反對台獨分裂勢力那這個說法其實都是衝著台灣來\n\n5\n00:01:12,799 --> 00:01:32,106\n另外就是後來到了稍晚之後PTT上面開始出現洗版的假訊息說我們的天然氣船兩次進不了台灣像這種混合式的認知作戰或者是心理戰喔那麼國安局的掌握狀況如何那麼我們第一時間如何來處理因為我們當然知道後來中郵是發了這個澄清稿\n\n6\n00:01:36,187 --> 00:01:50,122\n那像這樣的過程當中是他們自己發現了還是說事實上在面對這種更多的混合型的認知作戰或是心理戰我們如何來部署來第一時間做因應因為新房的公會其實更可怕\n\n7\n00:01:51,611 --> 00:02:11,353\n對因為剛剛也跟那個陳永浩有做說明了事實上對於中共的軍連我們在之前都有做一些部署那這部署除了去徵收中共的軍事動態以外另外網路上的假訊息也是我們在這段期間特別警戒的重點另外還有就是資安的攻擊所以這是一個全面配套政府之間的一個聯防的機制\n\n8\n00:02:12,114 --> 00:02:34,956\n一旦在網路上出現委員剛所講到的這樣的假訊息的話我們馬上啟動我們的機制來進行溯源的查找那也跟委員報告我們查找的結果這是一家中國的網路公司所釋放的那這家網路公司在美國在廣州上海都有他的分公司那比對之後發現他用不斷變更IP的方式來散佈這一類的假訊息\n\n9\n00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:35,656\n好,謝謝,因為我覺得第一時間\n\n10\n00:02:50,764 --> 00:03:08,101\n來回應應對甚至於避免明星的恐慌這是更重要的但更重要的是也希望這樣的事情當他們反走過必留下痕跡即使不斷的透過跳板但是我相信現在的科技是可以日新月異來有助於相關的單位來抓住這些源頭\n\n11\n00:03:08,902 --> 00:03:19,033\n那麼以只有斷元的方式才有機會去降低這種所謂對台的心理戰或認知作戰那麼這是予以肯定那至於有關於這個主席已經講了未來AI怎麼打炸的部分會有專報那我就不問了但是我要問的是一個\n\n12\n00:03:23,999 --> 00:03:43,871\n可能對於國安會有另外一個新已經存在在台灣要面對的狀況就是中國的電動車是不是成為新的木馬這個之前其實我有說過了那我在大院質詢卓榮泰院長跟經濟部長的時候我都有提到那就是中國的電動車現在全球都被視為包括美國\n\n13\n00:03:44,631 --> 00:04:11,781\n甚至於他是用關稅的方式因為中國的低價傾銷策略會導致中國的電動車變得非常有競爭力但是本席現在發現的是說在我們的地方政府當中中國的電動車用一個什麼方式比亞迪我想這是中國的平台大家都知道但是他透過一個習產地的攻略直接進軍到我們的公車地方政府的公車以及可不可能就是我們各個\n\n14\n00:04:12,941 --> 00:04:32,637\n中央跟地方政府的公務車因為它中國用普貼電動車的方式它合作台灣的代理商搖身一變居然變成台灣車然後呢它用租賃公司的方式來進行低價投標我們知道我們很多的中央政府的標案是用什麼方式都是用價格標\n\n15\n00:04:34,298 --> 00:04:51,600\n我想這個不用多說在美國或是其他國家現在嚴防的就是中國電動車的傾銷那麼如果說今天我們的各單位在標案上面一樣是價格標然後又讓中國車用洗產地的方式就是直接\n\n16\n00:04:52,541 --> 00:05:15,847\n先化整為零然後跟中國中國找到台灣的代理商然後在台灣境內做一個組裝搖身變成台灣車這樣的問題我認為國安單位必須要重視因為他不只是跟國安有關他跟工程會在標案的設計上面還有經濟部以及各級地方政府那麼我們都知道電動車\n\n17\n00:05:17,967 --> 00:05:41,225\n他如果在台灣滿街跑那麼這個所謂的聯網型的車輛在台灣就有可能成為間諜工具成為攻擊的工具那現在這個狀況他其實已經存在了本需查過了中央跟地方的標案在滿街上面的公車又或者是載著我們的各級包括我們立法委員各級的\n\n18\n00:05:42,492 --> 00:06:04,531\n先是首長或者是部會首長的公務車那麼怎麼來因應跟應處這個問題國安局有沒有注意到有有注意到這個因為已經是歐美國家非常重視的一個議題特別是美國商務部在上個月也公佈一個非常完整有關中國聯網車可能的治安風險那這包括到可能相關車輛會把\n\n19\n00:06:06,813 --> 00:06:07,174\n：林楚茵\n\n20\n00:06:22,614 --> 00:06:22,834\n：林楚茵\n\n21\n00:06:52,574 --> 00:07:15,944\n好本期會查到的就是說現在因為低價的電動車我查的一台可能比如說以公車或公務車來講如果它的價格低於其他國家所生產的電動車的時候那就像我剛剛提到的我們在政府採購的時候常常都是價格標嘛低價者得那麼中國的這種補助的時候它可能就會造成是其他的\n\n22\n00:07:16,804 --> 00:07:18,866\n國安單位來做一個統合的單位或者是發起其他的會議包括您說這個報告已經給經濟部了什麼時候給經濟部的\n\n23\n00:07:32,777 --> 00:07:50,985\n9月22左右我的印象沒記錯9月的時候就已經給了當時我注意到美國的報告我就非常重視特別請委員負責資安的部門把它做一個完整的分析提供給經濟部因為畢竟這部分的業管是全責是在經濟部會那國安局有這樣的情資或有這樣的風險的預判我們就給業管單位來撐住\n\n24\n00:07:53,706 --> 00:08:08,300\n好所以另外一個本席提供的數字這個其實也是已經都是公開的資訊就是如果說以國產車來講我們國產車有許多中國的零件不知道你給經濟部的報告當中是不是也有這個部分那就是我們的公務車裡頭\n\n25\n00:08:09,941 --> 00:08:37,684\n如果不是中國的品牌他也有可能是在零組件當中來自於中國而目前中國也是我們重要的進口的零件的部分那這個相關的部分還有另外一個除了經濟部之外那就是關稅如果說今天我們進口車是17%左右的關稅那麼在零組件當中尤其是從中國進口的零件從10%到17%不等那麼這些零件當中是不是也植入在我們的公務車的採購當中\n\n26\n00:08:39,465 --> 00:09:05,915\n那這個部分到底怎麼樣來做一個標準跟界定這個部分國安局有沒有關注到我們有關注就理解經濟部應該在這部分也有注意到委員所提到的潛在的風險所以應該在兩三個月前有一個新的措施是針對使用中國提供的汽車零件它比例應該不能超過35%左右那假如沒有達到應該是自治率要能夠達到35%\n\n27\n00:09:07,355 --> 00:09:13,836\n本席希望呢這個國安單位能夠針對這個部分來做了解因為電動車就開在台灣而中國的電動車用清燒的方式補貼的方式除了當然他希望佔有市場的市佔率之外對我們來講這種敵對勢力當中如果植入相關木馬城市\n\n28\n00:10:01,585 --> 00:10:06,632\n就這部分來講我們會繼續來注意那相關中國電動聯網車的資安風險的報告我們在會後提供給大會跟委員來做參考好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n472\t2626\t謝謝主席主席邀請蔡局長來 局長請\n9124\t37470\t好謝謝主席林委員長主席早安局長早安剛剛羅美玲委員已經有特別針對在面對中國的軍演所引發的一些後續的觀察跟效應我想其實不只是中國對我們施以這個所謂武嚇文攻的部分其實同時也在測驗台灣的心戰跟認知作戰我不知道這個局長你同不同意這個說法是\n37930\t54798\t我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在講就是我們這次的演習花很多時間在掌握中共的基建動態以外其他的時間都在因應所謂的認知作戰對可能認知作戰的部分我先舉兩個例子第一個是我們都知道中國其實是不能開YouTube的\n55538\t72018\t但是他居然在一個叫做中興網直播整個聯合力建2024B的過程這個其實是給全世界看包括台灣看尤其是他還說反對台獨分裂勢力那這個說法其實都是衝著台灣來\n72799\t92106\t另外就是後來到了稍晚之後PTT上面開始出現洗版的假訊息說我們的天然氣船兩次進不了台灣像這種混合式的認知作戰或者是心理戰喔那麼國安局的掌握狀況如何那麼我們第一時間如何來處理因為我們當然知道後來中郵是發了這個澄清稿\n96187\t110122\t那像這樣的過程當中是他們自己發現了還是說事實上在面對這種更多的混合型的認知作戰或是心理戰我們如何來部署來第一時間做因應因為新房的公會其實更可怕\n111611\t131353\t對 因為剛剛也跟那個陳永浩有做說明了事實上對於中共的軍連我們在之前都有做一些部署那這部署除了去徵收中共的軍事動態以外另外網路上的假訊息也是我們在這段期間特別警戒的重點另外還有就是資安的攻擊所以這是一個全面配套政府之間的一個聯防的機制\n132114\t154956\t一旦在網路上出現委員剛所講到的這樣的假訊息的話我們馬上啟動我們的機制來進行溯源的查找那也跟委員報告我們查找的結果這是一家中國的網路公司所釋放的那這家網路公司在美國在廣州上海都有他的分公司那比對之後發現他用不斷變更IP的方式來散佈這一類的假訊息\n155196\t155656\t好,謝謝,因為我覺得第一時間\n170764\t188101\t來回應應對甚至於避免明星的恐慌這是更重要的但更重要的是也希望這樣的事情當他們反走過必留下痕跡即使不斷的透過跳板但是我相信現在的科技是可以日新月異來有助於相關的單位來抓住這些源頭\n188902\t199033\t那麼以只有斷元的方式才有機會去降低這種所謂對台的心理戰或認知作戰那麼這是予以肯定那至於有關於這個主席已經講了未來AI怎麼打炸的部分會有專報那我就不問了但是我要問的是一個\n203999\t223871\t可能對於國安會有另外一個新已經存在在台灣要面對的狀況就是中國的電動車是不是成為新的木馬這個之前其實我有說過了那我在大院質詢卓榮泰院長跟經濟部長的時候我都有提到那就是中國的電動車現在全球都被視為包括美國\n224631\t251781\t甚至於他是用關稅的方式因為中國的低價傾銷策略會導致中國的電動車變得非常有競爭力但是本席現在發現的是說在我們的地方政府當中中國的電動車用一個什麼方式比亞迪我想這是中國的平台大家都知道但是他透過一個習產地的攻略直接進軍到我們的公車地方政府的公車以及可不可能就是我們各個\n252941\t272637\t中央跟地方政府的公務車因為它中國用普貼電動車的方式它合作台灣的代理商搖身一變居然變成台灣車然後呢它用租賃公司的方式來進行低價投標我們知道我們很多的中央政府的標案是用什麼方式都是用價格標\n274298\t291600\t我想這個不用多說在美國或是其他國家現在嚴防的就是中國電動車的傾銷那麼如果說今天我們的各單位在標案上面一樣是價格標然後又讓中國車用洗產地的方式就是直接\n292541\t315847\t先化整為零然後跟中國中國找到台灣的代理商然後在台灣境內做一個組裝搖身變成台灣車這樣的問題我認為國安單位必須要重視因為他不只是跟國安有關他跟工程會在標案的設計上面還有經濟部以及各級地方政府那麼我們都知道電動車\n317967\t341225\t他如果在台灣滿街跑那麼這個所謂的聯網型的車輛在台灣就有可能成為間諜工具成為攻擊的工具那現在這個狀況他其實已經存在了本需查過了中央跟地方的標案在滿街上面的公車又或者是載著我們的各級包括我們立法委員各級的\n342492\t364531\t先是首長或者是部會首長的公務車那麼怎麼來因應跟應處這個問題國安局有沒有注意到有 有注意到這個因為已經是歐美國家非常重視的一個議題特別是美國商務部在上個月也公佈一個非常完整有關中國聯網車可能的治安風險那這包括到可能相關車輛會把\n366813\t367174\t：林楚茵\n382614\t382834\t：林楚茵\n412574\t435944\t好本期會查到的就是說現在因為低價的電動車我查的一台可能比如說以公車或公務車來講如果它的價格低於其他國家所生產的電動車的時候那就像我剛剛提到的我們在政府採購的時候常常都是價格標嘛低價者得那麼中國的這種補助的時候它可能就會造成是其他的\n436804\t438866\t國安單位來做一個統合的單位或者是發起其他的會議包括您說這個報告已經給經濟部了什麼時候給經濟部的\n452777\t470985\t9月22左右我的印象沒記錯9月的時候就已經給了當時我注意到美國的報告我就非常重視特別請委員負責資安的部門把它做一個完整的分析提供給經濟部因為畢竟這部分的業管是全責是在經濟部會那國安局有這樣的情資或有這樣的風險的預判我們就給業管單位來撐住\n473706\t488300\t好所以另外一個本席提供的數字這個其實也是已經都是公開的資訊就是如果說以國產車來講我們國產車有許多中國的零件不知道你給經濟部的報告當中是不是也有這個部分那就是我們的公務車裡頭\n489941\t517684\t如果不是中國的品牌他也有可能是在零組件當中來自於中國而目前中國也是我們重要的進口的零件的部分那這個相關的部分還有另外一個除了經濟部之外那就是關稅如果說今天我們進口車是17%左右的關稅那麼在零組件當中尤其是從中國進口的零件從10%到17%不等那麼這些零件當中是不是也植入在我們的公務車的採購當中\n519465\t545915\t那這個部分到底怎麼樣來做一個標準跟界定這個部分國安局有沒有關注到我們有關注就理解經濟部應該在這部分也有注意到委員所提到的潛在的風險所以應該在兩三個月前有一個新的措施是針對使用中國提供的汽車零件它比例應該不能超過35%左右那假如沒有達到應該是自治率要能夠達到35%\n547355\t553836\t本席希望呢這個國安單位能夠針對這個部分來做了解因為電動車就開在台灣而中國的電動車用清燒的方式補貼的方式除了當然他希望佔有市場的市佔率之外對我們來講這種敵對勢力當中如果植入相關木馬城市\n576800\t601425\t﹗\n601585\t606632\t就這部分來講我們會繼續來注意那相關中國電動聯網車的資安風險的報告我們在會後提供給大會跟委員來做參考好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席邀請蔡局長來 局長請\n好謝謝主席林委員長主席早安局長早安剛剛羅美玲委員已經有特別針對在面對中國的軍演所引發的一些後續的觀察跟效應我想其實不只是中國對我們施以這個所謂武嚇文攻的部分其實同時也在測驗台灣的心戰跟認知作戰我不知道這個局長你同不同意這個說法是\n我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在講就是我們這次的演習花很多時間在掌握中共的基建動態以外其他的時間都在因應所謂的認知作戰對可能認知作戰的部分我先舉兩個例子第一個是我們都知道中國其實是不能開YouTube的\n但是他居然在一個叫做中興網直播整個聯合力建2024B的過程這個其實是給全世界看包括台灣看尤其是他還說反對台獨分裂勢力那這個說法其實都是衝著台灣來\n另外就是後來到了稍晚之後PTT上面開始出現洗版的假訊息說我們的天然氣船兩次進不了台灣像這種混合式的認知作戰或者是心理戰喔那麼國安局的掌握狀況如何那麼我們第一時間如何來處理因為我們當然知道後來中郵是發了這個澄清稿\n那像這樣的過程當中是他們自己發現了還是說事實上在面對這種更多的混合型的認知作戰或是心理戰我們如何來部署來第一時間做因應因為新房的公會其實更可怕\n對 因為剛剛也跟那個陳永浩有做說明了事實上對於中共的軍連我們在之前都有做一些部署那這部署除了去徵收中共的軍事動態以外另外網路上的假訊息也是我們在這段期間特別警戒的重點另外還有就是資安的攻擊所以這是一個全面配套政府之間的一個聯防的機制\n一旦在網路上出現委員剛所講到的這樣的假訊息的話我們馬上啟動我們的機制來進行溯源的查找那也跟委員報告我們查找的結果這是一家中國的網路公司所釋放的那這家網路公司在美國在廣州上海都有他的分公司那比對之後發現他用不斷變更IP的方式來散佈這一類的假訊息\n好,謝謝,因為我覺得第一時間\n來回應應對甚至於避免明星的恐慌這是更重要的但更重要的是也希望這樣的事情當他們反走過必留下痕跡即使不斷的透過跳板但是我相信現在的科技是可以日新月異來有助於相關的單位來抓住這些源頭\n那麼以只有斷元的方式才有機會去降低這種所謂對台的心理戰或認知作戰那麼這是予以肯定那至於有關於這個主席已經講了未來AI怎麼打炸的部分會有專報那我就不問了但是我要問的是一個\n可能對於國安會有另外一個新已經存在在台灣要面對的狀況就是中國的電動車是不是成為新的木馬這個之前其實我有說過了那我在大院質詢卓榮泰院長跟經濟部長的時候我都有提到那就是中國的電動車現在全球都被視為包括美國\n甚至於他是用關稅的方式因為中國的低價傾銷策略會導致中國的電動車變得非常有競爭力但是本席現在發現的是說在我們的地方政府當中中國的電動車用一個什麼方式比亞迪我想這是中國的平台大家都知道但是他透過一個習產地的攻略直接進軍到我們的公車地方政府的公車以及可不可能就是我們各個\n中央跟地方政府的公務車因為它中國用普貼電動車的方式它合作台灣的代理商搖身一變居然變成台灣車然後呢它用租賃公司的方式來進行低價投標我們知道我們很多的中央政府的標案是用什麼方式都是用價格標\n我想這個不用多說在美國或是其他國家現在嚴防的就是中國電動車的傾銷那麼如果說今天我們的各單位在標案上面一樣是價格標然後又讓中國車用洗產地的方式就是直接\n先化整為零然後跟中國中國找到台灣的代理商然後在台灣境內做一個組裝搖身變成台灣車這樣的問題我認為國安單位必須要重視因為他不只是跟國安有關他跟工程會在標案的設計上面還有經濟部以及各級地方政府那麼我們都知道電動車\n他如果在台灣滿街跑那麼這個所謂的聯網型的車輛在台灣就有可能成為間諜工具成為攻擊的工具那現在這個狀況他其實已經存在了本需查過了中央跟地方的標案在滿街上面的公車又或者是載著我們的各級包括我們立法委員各級的\n先是首長或者是部會首長的公務車那麼怎麼來因應跟應處這個問題國安局有沒有注意到有 有注意到這個因為已經是歐美國家非常重視的一個議題特別是美國商務部在上個月也公佈一個非常完整有關中國聯網車可能的治安風險那這包括到可能相關車輛會把\n：林楚茵\n：林楚茵\n好本期會查到的就是說現在因為低價的電動車我查的一台可能比如說以公車或公務車來講如果它的價格低於其他國家所生產的電動車的時候那就像我剛剛提到的我們在政府採購的時候常常都是價格標嘛低價者得那麼中國的這種補助的時候它可能就會造成是其他的\n國安單位來做一個統合的單位或者是發起其他的會議包括您說這個報告已經給經濟部了什麼時候給經濟部的\n9月22左右我的印象沒記錯9月的時候就已經給了當時我注意到美國的報告我就非常重視特別請委員負責資安的部門把它做一個完整的分析提供給經濟部因為畢竟這部分的業管是全責是在經濟部會那國安局有這樣的情資或有這樣的風險的預判我們就給業管單位來撐住\n好所以另外一個本席提供的數字這個其實也是已經都是公開的資訊就是如果說以國產車來講我們國產車有許多中國的零件不知道你給經濟部的報告當中是不是也有這個部分那就是我們的公務車裡頭\n如果不是中國的品牌他也有可能是在零組件當中來自於中國而目前中國也是我們重要的進口的零件的部分那這個相關的部分還有另外一個除了經濟部之外那就是關稅如果說今天我們進口車是17%左右的關稅那麼在零組件當中尤其是從中國進口的零件從10%到17%不等那麼這些零件當中是不是也植入在我們的公務車的採購當中\n那這個部分到底怎麼樣來做一個標準跟界定這個部分國安局有沒有關注到我們有關注就理解經濟部應該在這部分也有注意到委員所提到的潛在的風險所以應該在兩三個月前有一個新的措施是針對使用中國提供的汽車零件它比例應該不能超過35%左右那假如沒有達到應該是自治率要能夠達到35%\n本席希望呢這個國安單位能夠針對這個部分來做了解因為電動車就開在台灣而中國的電動車用清燒的方式補貼的方式除了當然他希望佔有市場的市佔率之外對我們來講這種敵對勢力當中如果植入相關木馬城市\n﹗\n就這部分來講我們會繼續來注意那相關中國電動聯網車的資安風險的報告我們在會後提供給大會跟委員來做參考好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.472 --> 00:02.626\n謝謝主席主席邀請蔡局長來局長請\n\n00:09.124 --> 00:37.470\n好謝謝主席林委員長主席早安局長早安剛剛羅美玲委員已經有特別針對在面對中國的軍演所引發的一些後續的觀察跟效應我想其實不只是中國對我們施以這個所謂武嚇文攻的部分其實同時也在測驗台灣的心戰跟認知作戰我不知道這個局長你同不同意這個說法是\n\n00:37.930 --> 00:54.798\n我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在講就是我們這次的演習花很多時間在掌握中共的基建動態以外其他的時間都在因應所謂的認知作戰對可能認知作戰的部分我先舉兩個例子第一個是我們都知道中國其實是不能開YouTube的\n\n00:55.538 --> 01:12.018\n但是他居然在一個叫做中興網直播整個聯合力建2024B的過程這個其實是給全世界看包括台灣看尤其是他還說反對台獨分裂勢力那這個說法其實都是衝著台灣來\n\n01:12.799 --> 01:32.106\n另外就是後來到了稍晚之後PTT上面開始出現洗版的假訊息說我們的天然氣船兩次進不了台灣像這種混合式的認知作戰或者是心理戰喔那麼國安局的掌握狀況如何那麼我們第一時間如何來處理因為我們當然知道後來中郵是發了這個澄清稿\n\n01:36.187 --> 01:50.122\n那像這樣的過程當中是他們自己發現了還是說事實上在面對這種更多的混合型的認知作戰或是心理戰我們如何來部署來第一時間做因應因為新房的公會其實更可怕\n\n01:51.611 --> 02:11.353\n對因為剛剛也跟那個陳永浩有做說明了事實上對於中共的軍連我們在之前都有做一些部署那這部署除了去徵收中共的軍事動態以外另外網路上的假訊息也是我們在這段期間特別警戒的重點另外還有就是資安的攻擊所以這是一個全面配套政府之間的一個聯防的機制\n\n02:12.114 --> 02:34.956\n一旦在網路上出現委員剛所講到的這樣的假訊息的話我們馬上啟動我們的機制來進行溯源的查找那也跟委員報告我們查找的結果這是一家中國的網路公司所釋放的那這家網路公司在美國在廣州上海都有他的分公司那比對之後發現他用不斷變更IP的方式來散佈這一類的假訊息\n\n02:35.196 --> 02:35.656\n好,謝謝,因為我覺得第一時間\n\n02:50.764 --> 03:08.101\n來回應應對甚至於避免明星的恐慌這是更重要的但更重要的是也希望這樣的事情當他們反走過必留下痕跡即使不斷的透過跳板但是我相信現在的科技是可以日新月異來有助於相關的單位來抓住這些源頭\n\n03:08.902 --> 03:19.033\n那麼以只有斷元的方式才有機會去降低這種所謂對台的心理戰或認知作戰那麼這是予以肯定那至於有關於這個主席已經講了未來AI怎麼打炸的部分會有專報那我就不問了但是我要問的是一個\n\n03:23.999 --> 03:43.871\n可能對於國安會有另外一個新已經存在在台灣要面對的狀況就是中國的電動車是不是成為新的木馬這個之前其實我有說過了那我在大院質詢卓榮泰院長跟經濟部長的時候我都有提到那就是中國的電動車現在全球都被視為包括美國\n\n03:44.631 --> 04:11.781\n甚至於他是用關稅的方式因為中國的低價傾銷策略會導致中國的電動車變得非常有競爭力但是本席現在發現的是說在我們的地方政府當中中國的電動車用一個什麼方式比亞迪我想這是中國的平台大家都知道但是他透過一個習產地的攻略直接進軍到我們的公車地方政府的公車以及可不可能就是我們各個\n\n04:12.941 --> 04:32.637\n中央跟地方政府的公務車因為它中國用普貼電動車的方式它合作台灣的代理商搖身一變居然變成台灣車然後呢它用租賃公司的方式來進行低價投標我們知道我們很多的中央政府的標案是用什麼方式都是用價格標\n\n04:34.298 --> 04:51.600\n我想這個不用多說在美國或是其他國家現在嚴防的就是中國電動車的傾銷那麼如果說今天我們的各單位在標案上面一樣是價格標然後又讓中國車用洗產地的方式就是直接\n\n04:52.541 --> 05:15.847\n先化整為零然後跟中國中國找到台灣的代理商然後在台灣境內做一個組裝搖身變成台灣車這樣的問題我認為國安單位必須要重視因為他不只是跟國安有關他跟工程會在標案的設計上面還有經濟部以及各級地方政府那麼我們都知道電動車\n\n05:17.967 --> 05:41.225\n他如果在台灣滿街跑那麼這個所謂的聯網型的車輛在台灣就有可能成為間諜工具成為攻擊的工具那現在這個狀況他其實已經存在了本需查過了中央跟地方的標案在滿街上面的公車又或者是載著我們的各級包括我們立法委員各級的\n\n05:42.492 --> 06:04.531\n先是首長或者是部會首長的公務車那麼怎麼來因應跟應處這個問題國安局有沒有注意到有有注意到這個因為已經是歐美國家非常重視的一個議題特別是美國商務部在上個月也公佈一個非常完整有關中國聯網車可能的治安風險那這包括到可能相關車輛會把\n\n06:06.813 --> 06:07.174\n：林楚茵\n\n06:22.614 --> 06:22.834\n：林楚茵\n\n06:52.574 --> 07:15.944\n好本期會查到的就是說現在因為低價的電動車我查的一台可能比如說以公車或公務車來講如果它的價格低於其他國家所生產的電動車的時候那就像我剛剛提到的我們在政府採購的時候常常都是價格標嘛低價者得那麼中國的這種補助的時候它可能就會造成是其他的\n\n07:16.804 --> 07:18.866\n國安單位來做一個統合的單位或者是發起其他的會議包括您說這個報告已經給經濟部了什麼時候給經濟部的\n\n07:32.777 --> 07:50.985\n9月22左右我的印象沒記錯9月的時候就已經給了當時我注意到美國的報告我就非常重視特別請委員負責資安的部門把它做一個完整的分析提供給經濟部因為畢竟這部分的業管是全責是在經濟部會那國安局有這樣的情資或有這樣的風險的預判我們就給業管單位來撐住\n\n07:53.706 --> 08:08.300\n好所以另外一個本席提供的數字這個其實也是已經都是公開的資訊就是如果說以國產車來講我們國產車有許多中國的零件不知道你給經濟部的報告當中是不是也有這個部分那就是我們的公務車裡頭\n\n08:09.941 --> 08:37.684\n如果不是中國的品牌他也有可能是在零組件當中來自於中國而目前中國也是我們重要的進口的零件的部分那這個相關的部分還有另外一個除了經濟部之外那就是關稅如果說今天我們進口車是17%左右的關稅那麼在零組件當中尤其是從中國進口的零件從10%到17%不等那麼這些零件當中是不是也植入在我們的公務車的採購當中\n\n08:39.465 --> 09:05.915\n那這個部分到底怎麼樣來做一個標準跟界定這個部分國安局有沒有關注到我們有關注就理解經濟部應該在這部分也有注意到委員所提到的潛在的風險所以應該在兩三個月前有一個新的措施是針對使用中國提供的汽車零件它比例應該不能超過35%左右那假如沒有達到應該是自治率要能夠達到35%\n\n09:07.355 --> 09:13.836\n本席希望呢這個國安單位能夠針對這個部分來做了解因為電動車就開在台灣而中國的電動車用清燒的方式補貼的方式除了當然他希望佔有市場的市佔率之外對我們來講這種敵對勢力當中如果植入相關木馬城市\n\n10:01.585 --> 10:06.632\n就這部分來講我們會繼續來注意那相關中國電動聯網車的資安風險的報告我們在會後提供給大會跟委員來做參考好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.472,"end":2.626,"text":"謝謝主席主席邀請蔡局長來 局長請"},{"start":9.124,"end":37.47,"text":"好謝謝主席林委員長主席早安局長早安剛剛羅美玲委員已經有特別針對在面對中國的軍演所引發的一些後續的觀察跟效應我想其實不只是中國對我們施以這個所謂武嚇文攻的部分其實同時也在測驗台灣的心戰跟認知作戰我不知道這個局長你同不同意這個說法是"},{"start":37.93,"end":54.798,"text":"我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在講就是我們這次的演習花很多時間在掌握中共的基建動態以外其他的時間都在因應所謂的認知作戰對可能認知作戰的部分我先舉兩個例子第一個是我們都知道中國其實是不能開YouTube的"},{"start":55.538,"end":72.018,"text":"但是他居然在一個叫做中興網直播整個聯合力建2024B的過程這個其實是給全世界看包括台灣看尤其是他還說反對台獨分裂勢力那這個說法其實都是衝著台灣來"},{"start":72.799,"end":92.106,"text":"另外就是後來到了稍晚之後PTT上面開始出現洗版的假訊息說我們的天然氣船兩次進不了台灣像這種混合式的認知作戰或者是心理戰喔那麼國安局的掌握狀況如何那麼我們第一時間如何來處理因為我們當然知道後來中郵是發了這個澄清稿"},{"start":96.187,"end":110.122,"text":"那像這樣的過程當中是他們自己發現了還是說事實上在面對這種更多的混合型的認知作戰或是心理戰我們如何來部署來第一時間做因應因為新房的公會其實更可怕"},{"start":111.611,"end":131.353,"text":"對 因為剛剛也跟那個陳永浩有做說明了事實上對於中共的軍連我們在之前都有做一些部署那這部署除了去徵收中共的軍事動態以外另外網路上的假訊息也是我們在這段期間特別警戒的重點另外還有就是資安的攻擊所以這是一個全面配套政府之間的一個聯防的機制"},{"start":132.114,"end":154.956,"text":"一旦在網路上出現委員剛所講到的這樣的假訊息的話我們馬上啟動我們的機制來進行溯源的查找那也跟委員報告我們查找的結果這是一家中國的網路公司所釋放的那這家網路公司在美國在廣州上海都有他的分公司那比對之後發現他用不斷變更IP的方式來散佈這一類的假訊息"},{"start":155.196,"end":155.656,"text":"好,謝謝,因為我覺得第一時間"},{"start":170.764,"end":188.101,"text":"來回應應對甚至於避免明星的恐慌這是更重要的但更重要的是也希望這樣的事情當他們反走過必留下痕跡即使不斷的透過跳板但是我相信現在的科技是可以日新月異來有助於相關的單位來抓住這些源頭"},{"start":188.902,"end":199.033,"text":"那麼以只有斷元的方式才有機會去降低這種所謂對台的心理戰或認知作戰那麼這是予以肯定那至於有關於這個主席已經講了未來AI怎麼打炸的部分會有專報那我就不問了但是我要問的是一個"},{"start":203.999,"end":223.871,"text":"可能對於國安會有另外一個新已經存在在台灣要面對的狀況就是中國的電動車是不是成為新的木馬這個之前其實我有說過了那我在大院質詢卓榮泰院長跟經濟部長的時候我都有提到那就是中國的電動車現在全球都被視為包括美國"},{"start":224.631,"end":251.781,"text":"甚至於他是用關稅的方式因為中國的低價傾銷策略會導致中國的電動車變得非常有競爭力但是本席現在發現的是說在我們的地方政府當中中國的電動車用一個什麼方式比亞迪我想這是中國的平台大家都知道但是他透過一個習產地的攻略直接進軍到我們的公車地方政府的公車以及可不可能就是我們各個"},{"start":252.941,"end":272.637,"text":"中央跟地方政府的公務車因為它中國用普貼電動車的方式它合作台灣的代理商搖身一變居然變成台灣車然後呢它用租賃公司的方式來進行低價投標我們知道我們很多的中央政府的標案是用什麼方式都是用價格標"},{"start":274.298,"end":291.6,"text":"我想這個不用多說在美國或是其他國家現在嚴防的就是中國電動車的傾銷那麼如果說今天我們的各單位在標案上面一樣是價格標然後又讓中國車用洗產地的方式就是直接"},{"start":292.541,"end":315.847,"text":"先化整為零然後跟中國中國找到台灣的代理商然後在台灣境內做一個組裝搖身變成台灣車這樣的問題我認為國安單位必須要重視因為他不只是跟國安有關他跟工程會在標案的設計上面還有經濟部以及各級地方政府那麼我們都知道電動車"},{"start":317.967,"end":341.225,"text":"他如果在台灣滿街跑那麼這個所謂的聯網型的車輛在台灣就有可能成為間諜工具成為攻擊的工具那現在這個狀況他其實已經存在了本需查過了中央跟地方的標案在滿街上面的公車又或者是載著我們的各級包括我們立法委員各級的"},{"start":342.492,"end":364.531,"text":"先是首長或者是部會首長的公務車那麼怎麼來因應跟應處這個問題國安局有沒有注意到有 有注意到這個因為已經是歐美國家非常重視的一個議題特別是美國商務部在上個月也公佈一個非常完整有關中國聯網車可能的治安風險那這包括到可能相關車輛會把"},{"start":366.813,"end":367.174,"text":"：林楚茵"},{"start":382.614,"end":382.834,"text":"：林楚茵"},{"start":412.574,"end":435.944,"text":"好本期會查到的就是說現在因為低價的電動車我查的一台可能比如說以公車或公務車來講如果它的價格低於其他國家所生產的電動車的時候那就像我剛剛提到的我們在政府採購的時候常常都是價格標嘛低價者得那麼中國的這種補助的時候它可能就會造成是其他的"},{"start":436.804,"end":438.866,"text":"國安單位來做一個統合的單位或者是發起其他的會議包括您說這個報告已經給經濟部了什麼時候給經濟部的"},{"start":452.777,"end":470.985,"text":"9月22左右我的印象沒記錯9月的時候就已經給了當時我注意到美國的報告我就非常重視特別請委員負責資安的部門把它做一個完整的分析提供給經濟部因為畢竟這部分的業管是全責是在經濟部會那國安局有這樣的情資或有這樣的風險的預判我們就給業管單位來撐住"},{"start":473.706,"end":488.3,"text":"好所以另外一個本席提供的數字這個其實也是已經都是公開的資訊就是如果說以國產車來講我們國產車有許多中國的零件不知道你給經濟部的報告當中是不是也有這個部分那就是我們的公務車裡頭"},{"start":489.941,"end":517.684,"text":"如果不是中國的品牌他也有可能是在零組件當中來自於中國而目前中國也是我們重要的進口的零件的部分那這個相關的部分還有另外一個除了經濟部之外那就是關稅如果說今天我們進口車是17%左右的關稅那麼在零組件當中尤其是從中國進口的零件從10%到17%不等那麼這些零件當中是不是也植入在我們的公務車的採購當中"},{"start":519.465,"end":545.915,"text":"那這個部分到底怎麼樣來做一個標準跟界定這個部分國安局有沒有關注到我們有關注就理解經濟部應該在這部分也有注意到委員所提到的潛在的風險所以應該在兩三個月前有一個新的措施是針對使用中國提供的汽車零件它比例應該不能超過35%左右那假如沒有達到應該是自治率要能夠達到35%"},{"start":547.355,"end":553.836,"text":"本席希望呢這個國安單位能夠針對這個部分來做了解因為電動車就開在台灣而中國的電動車用清燒的方式補貼的方式除了當然他希望佔有市場的市佔率之外對我們來講這種敵對勢力當中如果植入相關木馬城市"},{"start":576.8,"end":601.425,"text":"﹗"},{"start":601.585,"end":606.632,"text":"就這部分來講我們會繼續來注意那相關中國電動聯網車的資安風險的報告我們在會後提供給大會跟委員來做參考好謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-4","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:53:06 - 10:03:18","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","id":155509,"gazette":{"lineno":163,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（9時53分）謝謝主席，主席，有請蔡局長。"],["主席：局長請。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席。林委員早。"],["林委員楚茵：局長早安。剛剛羅美玲委員已經有特別針對我們面對中國軍演所引發的一些後續觀察跟效應，我想其實不只是中國對我們施以所謂的武嚇，文攻的部分，其實同時也在測驗臺灣的心戰跟認知作戰，我不知道局長你同不同意這個說法？"],["蔡局長明彥：是啊，我剛剛也跟媒體朋友在講，就是這次演習我們花很多時間在掌握中共的機艦動態以外，其他時間都在因應所謂的認知作戰。"],["林委員楚茵：對，認知作戰的部分，我先舉兩個例子，第一個是我們都知道中國其實是不能看YouTube的，但是它居然在一個叫做中新網的網站直播整個聯合利劍─2024B的過程，這個其實是給全世界看，包括給臺灣看，尤其是它還說反對臺獨分裂勢力，這個說法其實都是衝著臺灣來；另外，後來到了稍晚之後，PTT上面開始出現洗版的假訊息，說我們的天然氣船兩次進不了臺灣，像這種混合式的認知作戰或者是心理戰，國安局的掌握狀況如何？我們第一時間如何來處理？因為我們當然知道後來中油發了澄清稿，像這樣的過程當中，是他們自己發現的，還是說在面對這種更多的混合型認知作戰或是心理戰，我們如何來部署並第一時間做因應？因為心防的崩潰，其實更可怕。"],["蔡局長明彥：剛剛也有跟陳永康委員做說明，事實上對於中共的軍演，我們在之前都有做一些部署，除了去偵蒐中共的軍事動態以外，另外，網路上的假訊息也是我們在這段期間特別警戒的重點，另外還有就是資安的攻擊，所以這是一個政府之間全面配套的聯防機制。一旦在網路上出現委員剛剛所講到的這樣的假訊息的話，我們馬上啟動我們的機制來進行溯源的查找，也跟委員報告我們查找的結果，這是一家中國的網路公司所釋放的，這家網路公司在美國、廣州、上海都有它的分公司，比對之後，發現它用不斷變更IP的方式來散布這類的假訊息，所以第一時間通報到各單位來應處，包括到經濟部，包括到調查局，都針對這個個案來進行一些新聞的說明跟釋出，讓民眾不要受到假訊息的影響。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。因為我覺得第一時間來回應、應對，甚至於避免民心的恐慌，這是更重要的，當然更重要的是，也希望這樣的事情，他們凡走過必留下痕跡，即使不斷地透過跳板，但是我相信現在的科技是日新月異，有助於相關的單位來抓住這些源頭，只有斷源的方式才有機會去降低這種所謂對臺的心理戰或認知作戰，這個部分予以肯定。","主席已經講了，未來AI怎麼打詐的部分會有專報，我就不問了，但是我要問的是一個對於國安已經存在在臺灣要面對的狀況，就是中國的電動車是不是成為新的木馬，這個之前其實我有說過了，我在院會質詢卓榮泰院長跟經濟部長的時候，我都有提到就是中國的電動車現在在全球都被視為……包括美國，甚至它是用關稅的方式，因為中國的低價傾銷策略，會導致中國的電動車變得非常有競爭力，但是本席現在發現的是，在我們的地方政府，中國的電動車用什麼方式？比亞迪是中國的品牌，我想大家都知道，但是它透過一個洗產地的策略，直接進軍到我們地方政府的公車，以及是否可能也進軍到我們中央跟各個地方政府的公務車？因為中國用補貼電動車的方式，合作臺灣的代理商，搖身一變居然變成臺灣車，然後它用租賃公司的方式來進行低價投標，我們知道我們很多的中央政府標案是用什麼方式？都是用價格標，我想這個不用多說，在美國或是其他國家現在嚴防的就是中國電動車的傾銷，如果今天我們各單位在標案上一樣是價格標，然後又讓中國車用洗產地的方式，就是直接先化整為零，中國找到臺灣的代理商，然後在臺灣境內做組裝，搖身變成臺灣車，這樣的問題我認為國安單位必須要重視，因為這不只是跟國安有關，跟工程會在標案的設計上，還有跟經濟部以及各級地方政府也有關。我們都知道電動車如果在臺灣滿街跑，這個所謂連網型的車輛在臺灣就有可能成為間諜工具，成為攻擊的工具，現在這個狀況其實已經存在了，本席查過了中央跟地方的標案，滿街的公車，又或是載著我們各級的縣市首長或是部會首長，也包括載著我們立法委員的公務車，要怎麼來因應跟應處這個問題？國安局有沒有注意到？"],["蔡局長明彥：有注意到，這個因為已經是歐美國家非常重視的一個議題，特別是美國商務部在上個月也公布一個非常完整有關中國連網車可能的資安風險，包括可能相關車輛會把駕駛的一些使用習慣跟個資傳送到中國的資訊控管中心，我們針對這個報告有做非常詳細的研析，也加入了我們自己對於中國連網車資安風險的意見，我們這個報告已經送給經濟部來參考，請他們能夠了解到中國連網車可能在資安的風險，這部分我們已經有把資訊跟經濟部做報告跟分享。","第二個部分是委員所提到的，這種電動車會不會在臺灣借殼低價進入到各級政府機關的汽車、電動車的採購標案，這部分我們再來特別注意，特別有沒有哪些個案有這樣的狀況的話，我們來啟動我們的機制來進行查察。"],["林委員楚茵：好。本席特別查到的就是現在低價的電動車，我查到的一台……以公車或公務車來講，如果它的價格低於其他國家所生產的電動車，就像我剛剛提到的，政府採購常常都是價格標，低價者得標，那麼中國的這種補助可能就會造成其他國家或是其他非中國品牌就相對沒有競爭力，這個部分有沒有可能由國安單位來做一個統合的單位或是發起其他的會議？您說這個報告已經給經濟部了，什麼時候給經濟部的？"],["蔡局長明彥：9月22號左右，我的印象沒記錯……"],["林委員楚茵：9月的時候就已經給了。"],["蔡局長明彥：因為當時我注意到美國的報告，我就非常重視，特別請我們負責資安的部門把它做完整的分析，提供給經濟部，因為畢竟這部分的業管、權責是在經濟部，國安局有這樣的情資或有這樣的風險預判，我們就給業管單位來參處。"],["林委員楚茵：好。另外一個本席提供的數字，這個其實也已經都是公開的資訊，如果以國產車來講，我們國產車也有許多中國的零件，不知道你給經濟部的報告當中是不是也有這個部分？就是我們的公務車裡頭如果不是中國的品牌，也有可能是其中的零組件來自於中國，目前中國也是我們進口零件的重要部分，相關的部分還有另外一個，除了經濟部之外，那就是關稅，如果今天我們進口車是17%左右的關稅，在零組件當中，尤其是從中國進口的零件從10%到17%不等，這些零件是不是也植入在我們的公務車採購中？這個部分到底怎麼樣來做一個標準跟界定，這個部分國安局有沒有關注到？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們有關注，就我的理解，經濟部應該在這部分也有注意到委員所提到的潛在風險，所以應該在兩、三個月前有一個新的措施，是針對使用中國提供的汽車零件，比率應該不能超過35%左右，假如沒有達到……應該是自製率要達到35%，假如沒有……"],["林委員楚茵：就是要逐年提升。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，假如沒有的話，它是不能夠進來的。所以我想經濟部相關單位已經有注意到，我們再來加強注意。"],["林委員楚茵：好。所以本席希望國安單位能夠針對這個部分來做了解，因為電動車就在臺灣開，而中國的電動車用傾銷的方式、補貼的方式，當然除了是它希望占有市場的市占率之外，對我們來講，這種敵對勢力當中如果植入相關的木馬程式，或者是對於臺灣的整體安全有危害的，從公車到公務車，我希望國安單位跟其他相關部會能夠聯絡起來，把這個問題做一個處理跟了解。如果可以的話，我也希望您剛剛提到的這個報告，包括提供給經濟部有關於中國電動車傾銷臺灣的狀況可能遇到的問題，這個報告是不是也可以提供給我們立法院外交及國防委員會？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，就這個部分來講，我們會繼續來注意，相關中國電動連網車的資安風險報告，我們在會後提供給大會跟委員來做參考。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，局長請回。"],["主席（林委員楚茵代）：接下來質詢請王定宇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":406,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-4","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","馬文君","黃仁","徐巧芯","林憶君","陳冠廷","黃國昌","賴士葆","羅廷瑋","洪申翰","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","翁曉玲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":351,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00004"}}}