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\"start\": 628.452, \"end\": 628.572, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 628.572, \"end\": 628.652, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 628.652, \"end\": 628.672, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,432 --> 00:00:36,342\n謝謝主席邀請我們何部長來前部長部長你好根據今年第4次人力需求的調查勞動部辦理的收集7月底工業跟服務業的懸缺半年以上未補食的全食的這個工作職缺對不對調查指出約有6.6萬個職位半年以上找不到人那其中製造業2.1萬\n\n2\n00:00:38,704 --> 00:00:39,705\n委員這個調查其實是比較有意義的是\n\n3\n00:00:54,083 --> 00:01:08,216\n他是在這個技術人力方面但是部長我想問有沒有什麼措施因為這個超過半年的基本上應該就是一個結構性的問題吧暫時性我覺得OK嘛但是我們可以理解但是這個長時間的\n\n4\n00:01:09,995 --> 00:01:32,225\n是當然委員對就是我們當然缺工已經很久了啦對那麼我們希望能夠更精確的掌握是缺什麼樣的工這就是我們這次調查的用意我跟委員報告我們這次調查比較有意義的是基層體力工其實不缺啦他比較缺的是這一種中階的技術人力所以說要怎麼改善\n\n5\n00:01:33,105 --> 00:01:38,130\n我們現在所以委員我從8月以來我們進行一連串包括中階技術人才的放寬包括我們對放寬橋外生他能進旅宿業然後也開放我現在已經有提案到國發會開放客運司機醫院護佐\n\n6\n00:02:08,886 --> 00:02:28,329\n當然少子化國安的問題這是已經很久了這個缺缺勞動力這是一個很久問題可是你馬上要改善的話就幾個方向嘛比如說提供提高我們婦女的勞參率還有中高齡退休後的就業嘛對不對好那我就進一步再跟你討論一下這個中高齡就業的部分喔\n\n7\n00:02:29,190 --> 00:02:52,399\n其實單就中高齡就業的部分有很多有形跟無形的年齡歧視我這邊提供幾個數據根據這個勞動部的2021年的工作場所的就業平等概況的調查受僱者在職場上遭受歧視的樣態以年齡歧視占比最高那55歲以上工作者有9%曾經因為年齡遭受就業歧視\n\n8\n00:02:53,419 --> 00:03:06,809\n那這個yes123的部分的調查也顯示說中高齡及這個高齡者的就業促進法上路以後有57.4%的人感覺是無助於改善被歧視的情況那麼還有遠見\n\n9\n00:03:10,331 --> 00:03:30,957\n遠見臺灣影像超高齡社會大調查再問到是否認為感受到職場對於中高齡有差別待遇時只有16.3%表示完全沒有感受到反之有83%感受到年齡差別待遇前三大差別待遇包含升遷加薪機會變少\n\n10\n00:03:32,671 --> 00:03:33,051\n指揮一倍調動或降階30%\n\n11\n00:03:46,016 --> 00:04:03,928\n您報告確實我們這個中高齡就業的歧視我們相當重視其實在我們中高齡專法裡面就有一個懲罰條款就是說你不可以用年齡歧視去支錢或支退人喔那你如果被檢舉的話那麼你可以被罰30萬以上到150萬以下的罰款你其實現在是這樣喔在職場的調查現在調查起來還是感覺到\n\n12\n00:04:21,328 --> 00:04:44,850\n我承認這確實是一個文化現象對所以其實勞動部自己也去統計去年你們裁罰的可能這個40件就有逾千萬元的罰金破千萬所以這個其實嚴重嚴重是很嚴重的事情那這也會有礙於我們發展這個部分中高齡就業的部分那我想要請問部長你有沒有什麼改善的措施或是你認為接下來還可以怎麼做\n\n13\n00:04:45,330 --> 00:04:46,992\n對目前有沒有什麼改善方案或者是計劃\n\n14\n00:05:00,298 --> 00:05:07,201\n我們會來這個加強這部分的這樣子的一個我可不可以請部長在這個一個月內你們部內可不可以就是就這個議題請你們提供一個檢討報告或是你們未來希望的改進措施可以提供書面資料給好沒問題沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n15\n00:05:21,528 --> 00:05:43,007\n另外這個就業調查中還有工業部門缺額46.2%那這也表示我們技職工作缺工也是一個大問題部長也點頭我想請問部長這個要怎麼改善那會不會有因為不夠重視技職培育重要性所導致或者是請問你們怎麼鼓勵這個技職教育\n\n16\n00:05:44,586 --> 00:06:05,715\n謝謝委員其實我真的我上任以來我在這方面花了很大的心力我就是我們在全國技能競賽你想想看我們這些包括從全國技能競賽到參與世界性的技能競賽我們培育的這些國手他們雖然獲得那麼多獎甚至獲得的職位非常的多可是他們在進入到社會的時候\n\n17\n00:06:07,796 --> 00:06:14,443\n在這邊可能也是有他的落差這個就是我們現在要來著力處理的部分對沒錯其實我們技職的這些體系的選手們要參加這個技職奧運之稱的國際技能競賽對不對所以您說的很好我們43面獎牌在全球排名第4名\n\n18\n00:06:24,674 --> 00:06:45,161\n但是這個今年而且甚至在今年國慶的時候繼職的這些選手跟這些巴黎奧運的國手也一同出席我們國慶大會然後巡禮接受國人喝采那總統的這個國慶文告也特別大讚兩位奪金的繼職奧運冠軍所以我想部長應該也是為他們驕傲啦覺得他們相當優秀對吧\n\n19\n00:06:46,661 --> 00:07:10,663\n好那沒錯那我們勞動部也有發新聞稿說他們是臺灣之光即職英雄那也相信他們是未來我們的這個工業部門勞動力的勝利軍喔非常好的一個勝利軍喔但是卻有選手向媒體投訴說勞動部大小眼一開始不讓他們參加巡禮讓有奪牌即職的這個選手們覺得自己不如沒有奪牌的這個\n\n20\n00:07:12,445 --> 00:07:27,805\n奧運選手而即便在勞動部爭取後巡禮的環節已經讓這些技職選手都有參加但是最後散場的時候還要他們自己打捷運離開那相較於其他有入場的選手有專車接送這個大小也很明顯\n\n21\n00:07:28,746 --> 00:07:43,244\n所以這個你們口口聲聲說很重視但是實際行為卻是這樣子所以我想要請問部長當初到底有沒有積極爭取呢就是說這些技職的選手他們離場的時候有沒有這些待遇你有沒有去意識到還要幫他們爭取\n\n22\n00:07:45,623 --> 00:07:54,531\n委員其實總統非常重視所以總統是所以我才說總統都很重視可是可是你們最後的卻遺漏到這個那個其實絕對沒有大小眼的問題好這還有另外一件事情選手出門比賽但是你們單人房卻給這個行政人員住那選手跟翻譯住雙人房卻住雙人房\n\n23\n00:08:09,904 --> 00:08:27,615\n那這就會很像當初的東奧一樣東奧選手一樣官員做商務艙選手做經濟艙那我覺得這個是我要提醒部長你們要注重這些細節不然上次的這個東奧事件就有一個長官下台了對吧\n\n24\n00:08:29,342 --> 00:08:43,186\n了解是是吧那所以我要表達的事情說你們嘴巴上說的重視請真的也落實到各個地方因為技職教育體系的確是我們現在很需要發展的一個環節是好\n\n25\n00:08:46,428 --> 00:09:10,839\n最後,其實我想要明天再問,今天就有時間再多問一下其實如果勞工願意在法定的範圍內加班那某種程度上也是讓勞資雙方能夠靈活調度人力但是根據我們財政部的台財稅第16713號的函解釋加班46小時以上不能免稅\n\n26\n00:09:12,148 --> 00:09:37,257\n那換句話說勞工願意努力加班那僱主也願意讓勞工加班卻因為這樣的規定降低了勞職雙方在加班上面的意願和協調那我們都說越努力那越幸運要拼才會贏但到頭來卻越努力繳越多的稅金那這個部分有沒有可能請勞動部來代表勞工跟我們的財政部協調重新解釋認定免稅範圍的可能性呢\n\n27\n00:09:38,664 --> 00:10:01,181\n委員因為這個這一種就是當然啦所得是一定要課稅啦憑良心講那麼因為這個稅收也是國家財政的一部分但是這個部分就是一個邏輯上的問題啊就是他們就是因為真的需要加班而且委員這有一個悖論喔我們如果因為我們事實上我們的加班上限就是46小時除非說有雙方協商才能再超過46\n\n28\n00:10:02,262 --> 00:10:28,672\n那我們如果勞動部主動去幫46以上的這好像是我們在鼓勵加班嗎?但是現在就是因為很多勞工反映說他們需要加班嘛他們需要加班賺這些錢但是他變成是他想要賺錢那因為僱主也願意讓他加班的情況之下我們當然是就是說他們雙方都有這個意願而不是僱主逼迫他的情況之下他有意願加班的情況之下對不對那他就是需要錢嘛\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11432\t36342\t謝謝主席 邀請我們何部長來前部長部長你好根據今年第4次人力需求的調查勞動部辦理的收集7月底工業跟服務業的懸缺半年以上未補食的全食的這個工作職缺對不對調查指出約有6.6萬個職位半年以上找不到人那其中製造業2.1萬\n38704\t39705\t委員 這個調查其實是比較有意義的是\n54083\t68216\t他是在這個技術人力方面但是部長我想問有沒有什麼措施因為這個超過半年的基本上應該就是一個結構性的問題吧暫時性我覺得OK嘛但是我們可以理解但是這個長時間的\n69995\t92225\t是當然委員對就是我們當然缺工已經很久了啦對那麼我們希望能夠更精確的掌握是缺什麼樣的工這就是我們這次調查的用意我跟委員報告我們這次調查比較有意義的是基層體力工其實不缺啦他比較缺的是這一種中階的技術人力所以說要怎麼改善\n93105\t98130\t我們現在所以委員我從8月以來我們進行一連串包括中階技術人才的放寬包括我們對放寬橋外生他能進旅宿業然後也開放我現在已經有提案到國發會開放客運司機醫院護佐\n114684\t128217\t獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲\n128886\t148329\t當然少子化國安的問題這是已經很久了這個缺缺勞動力這是一個很久問題可是你馬上要改善的話就幾個方向嘛比如說提供提高我們婦女的勞參率還有中高齡退休後的就業嘛對不對好那我就進一步再跟你討論一下這個中高齡就業的部分喔\n149190\t172399\t其實單就中高齡就業的部分有很多有形跟無形的年齡歧視我這邊提供幾個數據根據這個勞動部的2021年的工作場所的就業平等概況的調查受僱者在職場上遭受歧視的樣態以年齡歧視占比最高那55歲以上工作者有9%曾經因為年齡遭受就業歧視\n173419\t186809\t那這個yes123的部分的調查也顯示說中高齡及這個高齡者的就業促進法上路以後有57.4%的人感覺是無助於改善被歧視的情況那麼還有遠見\n190331\t210957\t遠見臺灣影像超高齡社會大調查再問到是否認為感受到職場對於中高齡有差別待遇時只有16.3%表示完全沒有感受到反之有83%感受到年齡差別待遇前三大差別待遇包含升遷加薪機會變少\n212671\t213051\t指揮一倍調動或降階30%\n226016\t243928\t您報告確實我們這個中高齡就業的歧視我們相當重視其實在我們中高齡專法裡面就有一個懲罰條款就是說你不可以用年齡歧視去支錢或支退人喔那你如果被檢舉的話那麼你可以被罰30萬以上到150萬以下的罰款你其實現在是這樣喔在職場的調查現在調查起來還是感覺到\n249872\t260896\t﹖\n261328\t284850\t我承認這確實是一個文化現象對所以其實勞動部自己也去統計去年你們裁罰的可能這個40件就有逾千萬元的罰金破千萬所以這個其實嚴重嚴重是很嚴重的事情那這也會有礙於我們發展這個部分中高齡就業的部分那我想要請問部長你有沒有什麼改善的措施或是你認為接下來還可以怎麼做\n285330\t286992\t對目前有沒有什麼改善方案或者是計劃\n300298\t307201\t我們會來這個加強這部分的這樣子的一個我可不可以請部長在這個一個月內你們部內可不可以就是就這個議題請你們提供一個檢討報告或是你們未來希望的改進措施可以提供書面資料給好沒問題沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝\n321528\t343007\t另外這個就業調查中還有工業部門缺額46.2%那這也表示我們技職工作缺工也是一個大問題部長也點頭我想請問部長這個要怎麼改善那會不會有因為不夠重視技職培育重要性所導致或者是請問你們怎麼鼓勵這個技職教育\n344586\t365715\t謝謝委員其實我真的我上任以來我在這方面花了很大的心力我就是我們在全國技能競賽你想想看我們這些包括從全國技能競賽到參與世界性的技能競賽我們培育的這些國手他們雖然獲得那麼多獎甚至獲得的職位非常的多可是他們在進入到社會的時候\n367796\t374443\t在這邊可能也是有他的落差 這個就是我們現在要來著力處理的部分對沒錯其實我們技職的這些體系的選手們要參加這個技職奧運之稱的國際技能競賽對不對所以您說的很好我們43面獎牌在全球排名第4名\n384674\t405161\t但是這個今年而且甚至在今年國慶的時候繼職的這些選手跟這些巴黎奧運的國手也一同出席我們國慶大會然後巡禮接受國人喝采那總統的這個國慶文告也特別大讚兩位奪金的繼職奧運冠軍所以我想部長應該也是為他們驕傲啦覺得他們相當優秀對吧\n406661\t430663\t好那沒錯那我們勞動部也有發新聞稿說他們是臺灣之光即職英雄那也相信他們是未來我們的這個工業部門勞動力的勝利軍喔非常好的一個勝利軍喔但是卻有選手向媒體投訴說勞動部大小眼一開始不讓他們參加巡禮讓有奪牌即職的這個選手們覺得自己不如沒有奪牌的這個\n432445\t447805\t奧運選手而即便在勞動部爭取後巡禮的環節已經讓這些技職選手都有參加但是最後散場的時候還要他們自己打捷運離開那相較於其他有入場的選手有專車接送這個大小也很明顯\n448746\t463244\t所以這個你們口口聲聲說很重視但是實際行為卻是這樣子所以我想要請問部長當初到底有沒有積極爭取呢就是說這些技職的選手他們離場的時候有沒有這些待遇你有沒有去意識到還要幫他們爭取\n465623\t474531\t委員其實總統非常重視所以總統是所以我才說總統都很重視可是可是你們最後的卻遺漏到這個那個其實絕對沒有大小眼的問題好這還有另外一件事情選手出門比賽但是你們單人房卻給這個行政人員住那選手跟翻譯住雙人房卻住雙人房\n489904\t507615\t那這就會很像當初的東奧一樣東奧選手一樣官員做商務艙選手做經濟艙那我覺得這個是我要提醒部長你們要注重這些細節不然上次的這個東奧事件就有一個長官下台了對吧\n509342\t523186\t了解是是吧那所以我要表達的事情說你們嘴巴上說的重視請真的也落實到各個地方因為技職教育體系的確是我們現在很需要發展的一個環節是好\n526428\t550839\t最後,其實我想要明天再問,今天就有時間再多問一下其實如果勞工願意在法定的範圍內加班那某種程度上也是讓勞資雙方能夠靈活調度人力但是根據我們財政部的台財稅第16713號的函解釋加班46小時以上不能免稅\n552148\t577257\t那換句話說勞工願意努力加班那僱主也願意讓勞工加班卻因為這樣的規定降低了勞職雙方在加班上面的意願和協調那我們都說越努力那越幸運要拼才會贏但到頭來卻越努力繳越多的稅金那這個部分有沒有可能請勞動部來代表勞工跟我們的財政部協調重新解釋認定免稅範圍的可能性呢\n578664\t601181\t委員因為這個這一種就是當然啦所得是一定要課稅啦憑良心講那麼因為這個稅收也是國家財政的一部分但是這個部分就是一個邏輯上的問題啊就是他們就是因為真的需要加班而且委員這有一個悖論喔我們如果因為我們事實上我們的加班上限就是46小時除非說有雙方協商才能再超過46\n602262\t628672\t那我們如果勞動部主動去幫46以上的這好像是我們在鼓勵加班嗎?但是現在就是因為很多勞工反映說他們需要加班嘛他們需要加班賺這些錢但是他變成是他想要賺錢那因為僱主也願意讓他加班的情況之下我們當然是就是說他們雙方都有這個意願而不是僱主逼迫他的情況之下他有意願加班的情況之下對不對那他就是需要錢嘛\n629292\t648319\t​​​​​​​​​​\n648524\t660606\t﹖\n","txt":"謝謝主席 邀請我們何部長來前部長部長你好根據今年第4次人力需求的調查勞動部辦理的收集7月底工業跟服務業的懸缺半年以上未補食的全食的這個工作職缺對不對調查指出約有6.6萬個職位半年以上找不到人那其中製造業2.1萬\n委員 這個調查其實是比較有意義的是\n他是在這個技術人力方面但是部長我想問有沒有什麼措施因為這個超過半年的基本上應該就是一個結構性的問題吧暫時性我覺得OK嘛但是我們可以理解但是這個長時間的\n是當然委員對就是我們當然缺工已經很久了啦對那麼我們希望能夠更精確的掌握是缺什麼樣的工這就是我們這次調查的用意我跟委員報告我們這次調查比較有意義的是基層體力工其實不缺啦他比較缺的是這一種中階的技術人力所以說要怎麼改善\n我們現在所以委員我從8月以來我們進行一連串包括中階技術人才的放寬包括我們對放寬橋外生他能進旅宿業然後也開放我現在已經有提案到國發會開放客運司機醫院護佐\n獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲\n當然少子化國安的問題這是已經很久了這個缺缺勞動力這是一個很久問題可是你馬上要改善的話就幾個方向嘛比如說提供提高我們婦女的勞參率還有中高齡退休後的就業嘛對不對好那我就進一步再跟你討論一下這個中高齡就業的部分喔\n其實單就中高齡就業的部分有很多有形跟無形的年齡歧視我這邊提供幾個數據根據這個勞動部的2021年的工作場所的就業平等概況的調查受僱者在職場上遭受歧視的樣態以年齡歧視占比最高那55歲以上工作者有9%曾經因為年齡遭受就業歧視\n那這個yes123的部分的調查也顯示說中高齡及這個高齡者的就業促進法上路以後有57.4%的人感覺是無助於改善被歧視的情況那麼還有遠見\n遠見臺灣影像超高齡社會大調查再問到是否認為感受到職場對於中高齡有差別待遇時只有16.3%表示完全沒有感受到反之有83%感受到年齡差別待遇前三大差別待遇包含升遷加薪機會變少\n指揮一倍調動或降階30%\n您報告確實我們這個中高齡就業的歧視我們相當重視其實在我們中高齡專法裡面就有一個懲罰條款就是說你不可以用年齡歧視去支錢或支退人喔那你如果被檢舉的話那麼你可以被罰30萬以上到150萬以下的罰款你其實現在是這樣喔在職場的調查現在調查起來還是感覺到\n﹖\n我承認這確實是一個文化現象對所以其實勞動部自己也去統計去年你們裁罰的可能這個40件就有逾千萬元的罰金破千萬所以這個其實嚴重嚴重是很嚴重的事情那這也會有礙於我們發展這個部分中高齡就業的部分那我想要請問部長你有沒有什麼改善的措施或是你認為接下來還可以怎麼做\n對目前有沒有什麼改善方案或者是計劃\n我們會來這個加強這部分的這樣子的一個我可不可以請部長在這個一個月內你們部內可不可以就是就這個議題請你們提供一個檢討報告或是你們未來希望的改進措施可以提供書面資料給好沒問題沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝\n另外這個就業調查中還有工業部門缺額46.2%那這也表示我們技職工作缺工也是一個大問題部長也點頭我想請問部長這個要怎麼改善那會不會有因為不夠重視技職培育重要性所導致或者是請問你們怎麼鼓勵這個技職教育\n謝謝委員其實我真的我上任以來我在這方面花了很大的心力我就是我們在全國技能競賽你想想看我們這些包括從全國技能競賽到參與世界性的技能競賽我們培育的這些國手他們雖然獲得那麼多獎甚至獲得的職位非常的多可是他們在進入到社會的時候\n在這邊可能也是有他的落差 這個就是我們現在要來著力處理的部分對沒錯其實我們技職的這些體系的選手們要參加這個技職奧運之稱的國際技能競賽對不對所以您說的很好我們43面獎牌在全球排名第4名\n但是這個今年而且甚至在今年國慶的時候繼職的這些選手跟這些巴黎奧運的國手也一同出席我們國慶大會然後巡禮接受國人喝采那總統的這個國慶文告也特別大讚兩位奪金的繼職奧運冠軍所以我想部長應該也是為他們驕傲啦覺得他們相當優秀對吧\n好那沒錯那我們勞動部也有發新聞稿說他們是臺灣之光即職英雄那也相信他們是未來我們的這個工業部門勞動力的勝利軍喔非常好的一個勝利軍喔但是卻有選手向媒體投訴說勞動部大小眼一開始不讓他們參加巡禮讓有奪牌即職的這個選手們覺得自己不如沒有奪牌的這個\n奧運選手而即便在勞動部爭取後巡禮的環節已經讓這些技職選手都有參加但是最後散場的時候還要他們自己打捷運離開那相較於其他有入場的選手有專車接送這個大小也很明顯\n所以這個你們口口聲聲說很重視但是實際行為卻是這樣子所以我想要請問部長當初到底有沒有積極爭取呢就是說這些技職的選手他們離場的時候有沒有這些待遇你有沒有去意識到還要幫他們爭取\n委員其實總統非常重視所以總統是所以我才說總統都很重視可是可是你們最後的卻遺漏到這個那個其實絕對沒有大小眼的問題好這還有另外一件事情選手出門比賽但是你們單人房卻給這個行政人員住那選手跟翻譯住雙人房卻住雙人房\n那這就會很像當初的東奧一樣東奧選手一樣官員做商務艙選手做經濟艙那我覺得這個是我要提醒部長你們要注重這些細節不然上次的這個東奧事件就有一個長官下台了對吧\n了解是是吧那所以我要表達的事情說你們嘴巴上說的重視請真的也落實到各個地方因為技職教育體系的確是我們現在很需要發展的一個環節是好\n最後,其實我想要明天再問,今天就有時間再多問一下其實如果勞工願意在法定的範圍內加班那某種程度上也是讓勞資雙方能夠靈活調度人力但是根據我們財政部的台財稅第16713號的函解釋加班46小時以上不能免稅\n那換句話說勞工願意努力加班那僱主也願意讓勞工加班卻因為這樣的規定降低了勞職雙方在加班上面的意願和協調那我們都說越努力那越幸運要拼才會贏但到頭來卻越努力繳越多的稅金那這個部分有沒有可能請勞動部來代表勞工跟我們的財政部協調重新解釋認定免稅範圍的可能性呢\n委員因為這個這一種就是當然啦所得是一定要課稅啦憑良心講那麼因為這個稅收也是國家財政的一部分但是這個部分就是一個邏輯上的問題啊就是他們就是因為真的需要加班而且委員這有一個悖論喔我們如果因為我們事實上我們的加班上限就是46小時除非說有雙方協商才能再超過46\n那我們如果勞動部主動去幫46以上的這好像是我們在鼓勵加班嗎?但是現在就是因為很多勞工反映說他們需要加班嘛他們需要加班賺這些錢但是他變成是他想要賺錢那因為僱主也願意讓他加班的情況之下我們當然是就是說他們雙方都有這個意願而不是僱主逼迫他的情況之下他有意願加班的情況之下對不對那他就是需要錢嘛\n​​​​​​​​​​\n﹖\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.432 --> 00:36.342\n謝謝主席邀請我們何部長來前部長部長你好根據今年第4次人力需求的調查勞動部辦理的收集7月底工業跟服務業的懸缺半年以上未補食的全食的這個工作職缺對不對調查指出約有6.6萬個職位半年以上找不到人那其中製造業2.1萬\n\n00:38.704 --> 00:39.705\n委員這個調查其實是比較有意義的是\n\n00:54.083 --> 01:08.216\n他是在這個技術人力方面但是部長我想問有沒有什麼措施因為這個超過半年的基本上應該就是一個結構性的問題吧暫時性我覺得OK嘛但是我們可以理解但是這個長時間的\n\n01:09.995 --> 01:32.225\n是當然委員對就是我們當然缺工已經很久了啦對那麼我們希望能夠更精確的掌握是缺什麼樣的工這就是我們這次調查的用意我跟委員報告我們這次調查比較有意義的是基層體力工其實不缺啦他比較缺的是這一種中階的技術人力所以說要怎麼改善\n\n01:33.105 --> 01:38.130\n我們現在所以委員我從8月以來我們進行一連串包括中階技術人才的放寬包括我們對放寬橋外生他能進旅宿業然後也開放我現在已經有提案到國發會開放客運司機醫院護佐\n\n02:08.886 --> 02:28.329\n當然少子化國安的問題這是已經很久了這個缺缺勞動力這是一個很久問題可是你馬上要改善的話就幾個方向嘛比如說提供提高我們婦女的勞參率還有中高齡退休後的就業嘛對不對好那我就進一步再跟你討論一下這個中高齡就業的部分喔\n\n02:29.190 --> 02:52.399\n其實單就中高齡就業的部分有很多有形跟無形的年齡歧視我這邊提供幾個數據根據這個勞動部的2021年的工作場所的就業平等概況的調查受僱者在職場上遭受歧視的樣態以年齡歧視占比最高那55歲以上工作者有9%曾經因為年齡遭受就業歧視\n\n02:53.419 --> 03:06.809\n那這個yes123的部分的調查也顯示說中高齡及這個高齡者的就業促進法上路以後有57.4%的人感覺是無助於改善被歧視的情況那麼還有遠見\n\n03:10.331 --> 03:30.957\n遠見臺灣影像超高齡社會大調查再問到是否認為感受到職場對於中高齡有差別待遇時只有16.3%表示完全沒有感受到反之有83%感受到年齡差別待遇前三大差別待遇包含升遷加薪機會變少\n\n03:32.671 --> 03:33.051\n指揮一倍調動或降階30%\n\n03:46.016 --> 04:03.928\n您報告確實我們這個中高齡就業的歧視我們相當重視其實在我們中高齡專法裡面就有一個懲罰條款就是說你不可以用年齡歧視去支錢或支退人喔那你如果被檢舉的話那麼你可以被罰30萬以上到150萬以下的罰款你其實現在是這樣喔在職場的調查現在調查起來還是感覺到\n\n04:21.328 --> 04:44.850\n我承認這確實是一個文化現象對所以其實勞動部自己也去統計去年你們裁罰的可能這個40件就有逾千萬元的罰金破千萬所以這個其實嚴重嚴重是很嚴重的事情那這也會有礙於我們發展這個部分中高齡就業的部分那我想要請問部長你有沒有什麼改善的措施或是你認為接下來還可以怎麼做\n\n04:45.330 --> 04:46.992\n對目前有沒有什麼改善方案或者是計劃\n\n05:00.298 --> 05:07.201\n我們會來這個加強這部分的這樣子的一個我可不可以請部長在這個一個月內你們部內可不可以就是就這個議題請你們提供一個檢討報告或是你們未來希望的改進措施可以提供書面資料給好沒問題沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n05:21.528 --> 05:43.007\n另外這個就業調查中還有工業部門缺額46.2%那這也表示我們技職工作缺工也是一個大問題部長也點頭我想請問部長這個要怎麼改善那會不會有因為不夠重視技職培育重要性所導致或者是請問你們怎麼鼓勵這個技職教育\n\n05:44.586 --> 06:05.715\n謝謝委員其實我真的我上任以來我在這方面花了很大的心力我就是我們在全國技能競賽你想想看我們這些包括從全國技能競賽到參與世界性的技能競賽我們培育的這些國手他們雖然獲得那麼多獎甚至獲得的職位非常的多可是他們在進入到社會的時候\n\n06:07.796 --> 06:14.443\n在這邊可能也是有他的落差這個就是我們現在要來著力處理的部分對沒錯其實我們技職的這些體系的選手們要參加這個技職奧運之稱的國際技能競賽對不對所以您說的很好我們43面獎牌在全球排名第4名\n\n06:24.674 --> 06:45.161\n但是這個今年而且甚至在今年國慶的時候繼職的這些選手跟這些巴黎奧運的國手也一同出席我們國慶大會然後巡禮接受國人喝采那總統的這個國慶文告也特別大讚兩位奪金的繼職奧運冠軍所以我想部長應該也是為他們驕傲啦覺得他們相當優秀對吧\n\n06:46.661 --> 07:10.663\n好那沒錯那我們勞動部也有發新聞稿說他們是臺灣之光即職英雄那也相信他們是未來我們的這個工業部門勞動力的勝利軍喔非常好的一個勝利軍喔但是卻有選手向媒體投訴說勞動部大小眼一開始不讓他們參加巡禮讓有奪牌即職的這個選手們覺得自己不如沒有奪牌的這個\n\n07:12.445 --> 07:27.805\n奧運選手而即便在勞動部爭取後巡禮的環節已經讓這些技職選手都有參加但是最後散場的時候還要他們自己打捷運離開那相較於其他有入場的選手有專車接送這個大小也很明顯\n\n07:28.746 --> 07:43.244\n所以這個你們口口聲聲說很重視但是實際行為卻是這樣子所以我想要請問部長當初到底有沒有積極爭取呢就是說這些技職的選手他們離場的時候有沒有這些待遇你有沒有去意識到還要幫他們爭取\n\n07:45.623 --> 07:54.531\n委員其實總統非常重視所以總統是所以我才說總統都很重視可是可是你們最後的卻遺漏到這個那個其實絕對沒有大小眼的問題好這還有另外一件事情選手出門比賽但是你們單人房卻給這個行政人員住那選手跟翻譯住雙人房卻住雙人房\n\n08:09.904 --> 08:27.615\n那這就會很像當初的東奧一樣東奧選手一樣官員做商務艙選手做經濟艙那我覺得這個是我要提醒部長你們要注重這些細節不然上次的這個東奧事件就有一個長官下台了對吧\n\n08:29.342 --> 08:43.186\n了解是是吧那所以我要表達的事情說你們嘴巴上說的重視請真的也落實到各個地方因為技職教育體系的確是我們現在很需要發展的一個環節是好\n\n08:46.428 --> 09:10.839\n最後,其實我想要明天再問,今天就有時間再多問一下其實如果勞工願意在法定的範圍內加班那某種程度上也是讓勞資雙方能夠靈活調度人力但是根據我們財政部的台財稅第16713號的函解釋加班46小時以上不能免稅\n\n09:12.148 --> 09:37.257\n那換句話說勞工願意努力加班那僱主也願意讓勞工加班卻因為這樣的規定降低了勞職雙方在加班上面的意願和協調那我們都說越努力那越幸運要拼才會贏但到頭來卻越努力繳越多的稅金那這個部分有沒有可能請勞動部來代表勞工跟我們的財政部協調重新解釋認定免稅範圍的可能性呢\n\n09:38.664 --> 10:01.181\n委員因為這個這一種就是當然啦所得是一定要課稅啦憑良心講那麼因為這個稅收也是國家財政的一部分但是這個部分就是一個邏輯上的問題啊就是他們就是因為真的需要加班而且委員這有一個悖論喔我們如果因為我們事實上我們的加班上限就是46小時除非說有雙方協商才能再超過46\n\n10:02.262 --> 10:28.672\n那我們如果勞動部主動去幫46以上的這好像是我們在鼓勵加班嗎?但是現在就是因為很多勞工反映說他們需要加班嘛他們需要加班賺這些錢但是他變成是他想要賺錢那因為僱主也願意讓他加班的情況之下我們當然是就是說他們雙方都有這個意願而不是僱主逼迫他的情況之下他有意願加班的情況之下對不對那他就是需要錢嘛\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.432,"end":36.342,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請我們何部長來前部長部長你好根據今年第4次人力需求的調查勞動部辦理的收集7月底工業跟服務業的懸缺半年以上未補食的全食的這個工作職缺對不對調查指出約有6.6萬個職位半年以上找不到人那其中製造業2.1萬"},{"start":38.704,"end":39.705,"text":"委員 這個調查其實是比較有意義的是"},{"start":54.083,"end":68.216,"text":"他是在這個技術人力方面但是部長我想問有沒有什麼措施因為這個超過半年的基本上應該就是一個結構性的問題吧暫時性我覺得OK嘛但是我們可以理解但是這個長時間的"},{"start":69.995,"end":92.225,"text":"是當然委員對就是我們當然缺工已經很久了啦對那麼我們希望能夠更精確的掌握是缺什麼樣的工這就是我們這次調查的用意我跟委員報告我們這次調查比較有意義的是基層體力工其實不缺啦他比較缺的是這一種中階的技術人力所以說要怎麼改善"},{"start":93.105,"end":98.13,"text":"我們現在所以委員我從8月以來我們進行一連串包括中階技術人才的放寬包括我們對放寬橋外生他能進旅宿業然後也開放我現在已經有提案到國發會開放客運司機醫院護佐"},{"start":114.684,"end":128.217,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":128.886,"end":148.329,"text":"當然少子化國安的問題這是已經很久了這個缺缺勞動力這是一個很久問題可是你馬上要改善的話就幾個方向嘛比如說提供提高我們婦女的勞參率還有中高齡退休後的就業嘛對不對好那我就進一步再跟你討論一下這個中高齡就業的部分喔"},{"start":149.19,"end":172.399,"text":"其實單就中高齡就業的部分有很多有形跟無形的年齡歧視我這邊提供幾個數據根據這個勞動部的2021年的工作場所的就業平等概況的調查受僱者在職場上遭受歧視的樣態以年齡歧視占比最高那55歲以上工作者有9%曾經因為年齡遭受就業歧視"},{"start":173.419,"end":186.809,"text":"那這個yes123的部分的調查也顯示說中高齡及這個高齡者的就業促進法上路以後有57.4%的人感覺是無助於改善被歧視的情況那麼還有遠見"},{"start":190.331,"end":210.957,"text":"遠見臺灣影像超高齡社會大調查再問到是否認為感受到職場對於中高齡有差別待遇時只有16.3%表示完全沒有感受到反之有83%感受到年齡差別待遇前三大差別待遇包含升遷加薪機會變少"},{"start":212.671,"end":213.051,"text":"指揮一倍調動或降階30%"},{"start":226.016,"end":243.928,"text":"您報告確實我們這個中高齡就業的歧視我們相當重視其實在我們中高齡專法裡面就有一個懲罰條款就是說你不可以用年齡歧視去支錢或支退人喔那你如果被檢舉的話那麼你可以被罰30萬以上到150萬以下的罰款你其實現在是這樣喔在職場的調查現在調查起來還是感覺到"},{"start":249.872,"end":260.896,"text":"﹖"},{"start":261.328,"end":284.85,"text":"我承認這確實是一個文化現象對所以其實勞動部自己也去統計去年你們裁罰的可能這個40件就有逾千萬元的罰金破千萬所以這個其實嚴重嚴重是很嚴重的事情那這也會有礙於我們發展這個部分中高齡就業的部分那我想要請問部長你有沒有什麼改善的措施或是你認為接下來還可以怎麼做"},{"start":285.33,"end":286.992,"text":"對目前有沒有什麼改善方案或者是計劃"},{"start":300.298,"end":307.201,"text":"我們會來這個加強這部分的這樣子的一個我可不可以請部長在這個一個月內你們部內可不可以就是就這個議題請你們提供一個檢討報告或是你們未來希望的改進措施可以提供書面資料給好沒問題沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝"},{"start":321.528,"end":343.007,"text":"另外這個就業調查中還有工業部門缺額46.2%那這也表示我們技職工作缺工也是一個大問題部長也點頭我想請問部長這個要怎麼改善那會不會有因為不夠重視技職培育重要性所導致或者是請問你們怎麼鼓勵這個技職教育"},{"start":344.586,"end":365.715,"text":"謝謝委員其實我真的我上任以來我在這方面花了很大的心力我就是我們在全國技能競賽你想想看我們這些包括從全國技能競賽到參與世界性的技能競賽我們培育的這些國手他們雖然獲得那麼多獎甚至獲得的職位非常的多可是他們在進入到社會的時候"},{"start":367.796,"end":374.443,"text":"在這邊可能也是有他的落差 這個就是我們現在要來著力處理的部分對沒錯其實我們技職的這些體系的選手們要參加這個技職奧運之稱的國際技能競賽對不對所以您說的很好我們43面獎牌在全球排名第4名"},{"start":384.674,"end":405.161,"text":"但是這個今年而且甚至在今年國慶的時候繼職的這些選手跟這些巴黎奧運的國手也一同出席我們國慶大會然後巡禮接受國人喝采那總統的這個國慶文告也特別大讚兩位奪金的繼職奧運冠軍所以我想部長應該也是為他們驕傲啦覺得他們相當優秀對吧"},{"start":406.661,"end":430.663,"text":"好那沒錯那我們勞動部也有發新聞稿說他們是臺灣之光即職英雄那也相信他們是未來我們的這個工業部門勞動力的勝利軍喔非常好的一個勝利軍喔但是卻有選手向媒體投訴說勞動部大小眼一開始不讓他們參加巡禮讓有奪牌即職的這個選手們覺得自己不如沒有奪牌的這個"},{"start":432.445,"end":447.805,"text":"奧運選手而即便在勞動部爭取後巡禮的環節已經讓這些技職選手都有參加但是最後散場的時候還要他們自己打捷運離開那相較於其他有入場的選手有專車接送這個大小也很明顯"},{"start":448.746,"end":463.244,"text":"所以這個你們口口聲聲說很重視但是實際行為卻是這樣子所以我想要請問部長當初到底有沒有積極爭取呢就是說這些技職的選手他們離場的時候有沒有這些待遇你有沒有去意識到還要幫他們爭取"},{"start":465.623,"end":474.531,"text":"委員其實總統非常重視所以總統是所以我才說總統都很重視可是可是你們最後的卻遺漏到這個那個其實絕對沒有大小眼的問題好這還有另外一件事情選手出門比賽但是你們單人房卻給這個行政人員住那選手跟翻譯住雙人房卻住雙人房"},{"start":489.904,"end":507.615,"text":"那這就會很像當初的東奧一樣東奧選手一樣官員做商務艙選手做經濟艙那我覺得這個是我要提醒部長你們要注重這些細節不然上次的這個東奧事件就有一個長官下台了對吧"},{"start":509.342,"end":523.186,"text":"了解是是吧那所以我要表達的事情說你們嘴巴上說的重視請真的也落實到各個地方因為技職教育體系的確是我們現在很需要發展的一個環節是好"},{"start":526.428,"end":550.839,"text":"最後,其實我想要明天再問,今天就有時間再多問一下其實如果勞工願意在法定的範圍內加班那某種程度上也是讓勞資雙方能夠靈活調度人力但是根據我們財政部的台財稅第16713號的函解釋加班46小時以上不能免稅"},{"start":552.148,"end":577.257,"text":"那換句話說勞工願意努力加班那僱主也願意讓勞工加班卻因為這樣的規定降低了勞職雙方在加班上面的意願和協調那我們都說越努力那越幸運要拼才會贏但到頭來卻越努力繳越多的稅金那這個部分有沒有可能請勞動部來代表勞工跟我們的財政部協調重新解釋認定免稅範圍的可能性呢"},{"start":578.664,"end":601.181,"text":"委員因為這個這一種就是當然啦所得是一定要課稅啦憑良心講那麼因為這個稅收也是國家財政的一部分但是這個部分就是一個邏輯上的問題啊就是他們就是因為真的需要加班而且委員這有一個悖論喔我們如果因為我們事實上我們的加班上限就是46小時除非說有雙方協商才能再超過46"},{"start":602.262,"end":628.672,"text":"那我們如果勞動部主動去幫46以上的這好像是我們在鼓勵加班嗎?但是現在就是因為很多勞工反映說他們需要加班嘛他們需要加班賺這些錢但是他變成是他想要賺錢那因為僱主也願意讓他加班的情況之下我們當然是就是說他們雙方都有這個意願而不是僱主逼迫他的情況之下他有意願加班的情況之下對不對那他就是需要錢嘛"},{"start":629.292,"end":648.319,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":648.524,"end":660.606,"text":"﹖"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:05:53 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10:16:53","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155515,"gazette":{"lineno":522,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時6分）謝謝主席，有請我們何部長。"],["主席：來，請部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你好。今年勞動部辦理第4次人力需求的調查，蒐集7月底工業跟服務業的懸缺半年以上未補實的全時工作職缺，對不對？調查指出約有6.6萬個職位半年以上找不到人，其中製造業有2.1萬個，數量是最多的，我覺得暫時性的缺工我們都可以理解，可是超過半年以上應該已經算是結構的問題，請問部長，我們有沒有什麼應對措施？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們這個調查其實比較有意義的就是它是在技術人力方面……"],["廖委員偉翔：沒關係，部長，我是想問有沒有什麼措施，因為這個超過半年了，基本上應該就是一個結構性的問題，如果只是暫時性，我覺得OK，我們可以理解，但是這個是長時間的。"],["何部長佩珊：是，委員，我們當然缺工已經很久了，那麼我們希望能夠更精確地掌握是缺什麼樣的工，這就是我們這次調查的用意。我跟委員報告，我們這次調查比較有意義的是基層體力工其實不缺，比較缺的是這種中階的技術人力。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我問要怎麼改善，大概的方向是什麼？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們從8月以來進行一連串的放寬，包括中階技術人才的放寬、放寬僑外生能夠進旅宿業，然後現在已經有提案到國發會，開放客運司機、醫院護佐等等也可以用這些技術人才。"],["廖委員偉翔：針對這些個別的職業嘛！那我們講個大方向，就是基本上你們這次有調查出一些數據，我要建議部長幾個方向。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：當然少子化是國安的問題，這個已經很久了，缺勞動力是一個很久的問題，可是你馬上要改善的話，就是幾個方向，比如說提高婦女的勞參率，對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：當然。"],["廖委員偉翔：還有中高齡者退休後的就業，對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，那我就進一步再跟你討論一下這個中高齡者就業的部分，其實單就中高齡者就業的部分有很多有形跟無形的年齡歧視，我在這邊提供幾個數據，根據勞動部所做2021年工作場所就業平等概況的調查，受僱者在職場上遭受歧視的樣態以年齡歧視的占比最高，55歲以上工作者有9%曾經因為年齡遭受就業歧視。yes123求職網所做的調查也顯示，在「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法」上路以後，有57.4%的人感覺無助於改善被歧視的情況。還有遠見做了「臺灣迎向超高齡社會大調查」，有問到是否認為感受到職場對於中高齡者有差別待遇，只有16.3%表示完全沒有感受到，反之有83%感受到年齡差別待遇，前三大差別待遇包含升遷、加薪機會變少是47%、被勸退是44%、職位易被調動或降階是30%。所以我想要問的是這樣不友善的職場會不會變成中高齡者就業的障礙？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我跟您報告，我們確實對中高齡者就業的歧視相當重視，其實在我們中高齡者專法裡面就有一個懲罰條款。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，的確。"],["何部長佩珊：就是你不可以用年齡歧視去資遣或勸退人，你如果被檢舉的話，可以被罰三十萬以上到一百五十萬以下罰鍰。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，但是我講的事情是，即便現在是這樣，職場的調查現在調查起來還是感覺到這樣不友善的狀況很多。"],["何部長佩珊：這是一個文化啦，不過，委員……"],["廖委員偉翔：對，這就是一個中高齡就業的障礙，對吧！"],["何部長佩珊：當然、當然。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以包含你也知道很嚴重，是嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我承認，確實有這個文化現象。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，其實勞動部自己也去統計，去年你們裁罰40件就有逾千萬元的罰金、破千萬，所以這個其實是很嚴重的事情，這也會有礙於我們發展中高齡就業的部分，那我想要請問部長，你有沒有什麼改善的措施？或是你認為接下來還可以怎麼做？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，當然我們要落實中高齡就業，確實我們會加大力道來處理年齡歧視上這樣的檢查。"],["廖委員偉翔：目前有沒有什麼改善方案或者是計畫？"],["何部長佩珊：我們會加強這部分這樣子的一個宣導，還有……"],["廖委員偉翔：我可不可以請部長在一個月內，你們部內可不可以就這個議題，請你們提供一個檢討報告，或是你們未來希望的改進措施，可以提供書面資料給本席參考，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好，沒問題、沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。另外，這個就業調查中還有工業部門缺額占46.2%，這也表示我們技職工作缺工也是一個大問題。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長也點頭。我想請問部長，這個要怎麼改善？會不會因為不夠重視技職培育重要性所導致？請問你們怎麼鼓勵技職教育？"],["何部長佩珊：是，謝謝委員。其實我上任以來，在這方面真的花了很大的心力，我們在全國技能競賽，你想想看，我們這些包括從全國技能競賽到參與世界性的技能競賽，我們培育的這些國手，他們雖然獲得那麼多獎，甚至獲得的職類非常多……"],["廖委員偉翔：沒錯。"],["何部長佩珊：可是他們在進入到社會的時候，那邊可能也是有它的落差，這個就是我們現在要來著力處理的部分。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，沒錯，其實我們技職的這些體系的選手們也有參加有技職奧運之稱的國際技能競賽對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：您說得很好，我們獲得43面獎牌，在全球排名第4名。但是在今年國慶的時候，技職的這些選手跟這些巴黎奧運的國手也一同出席我們國慶大會，然後巡禮接受國人喝采，總統的國慶文告也特別大讚兩位奪金的技職奧運冠軍，所以我想部長應該也是為他們感到驕傲，覺得他們相當優秀，對吧！"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，我們勞動部也有發新聞稿說他們是臺灣之光、技職英雄，也相信他們是未來我們工業部門勞動力的生力軍，非常好的一個生力軍。"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是卻有選手向媒體投訴說勞動部大小眼，一開始不讓他們參加巡禮，讓有奪牌的技職選手們覺得自己不如沒有奪牌的奧運選手，即便在勞動部爭取後，巡禮的環節已經讓這些技職選手都參加，但是最後散場的時候還要他們自己搭捷運離開，相較於其他有入場的選手有專車接送，這個大小眼很明顯。所以你們口口聲聲說很重視，但是實際行為卻是這樣子，所以我想要請問部長，當初到底有沒有積極爭取呢？就是說這些技職的選手他們離場的時候有沒有這些待遇？你有沒有意識到要幫他們爭取？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，其實總統非常重視，所以總統是包括……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我才說總統都很重視了，可是你們最後卻遺漏這個部分。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，其實絕對沒有大小眼的問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，最後還有另外一件事情，選手出國比賽，但你們單人房卻給行政人員住，選手跟翻譯卻住雙人房，這就會很像當初的東奧選手一樣，官員坐商務艙，選手坐經濟艙，我覺得這個是我要提醒部長的，你們要注重這些細節。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：不然像上次的東奧事件就有一個長官下臺了，對吧！"],["何部長佩珊：了解，是。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我要表達的事情就是說，你們嘴巴上說的重視，請真的也落實到各個地方，因為技職教育體系的確是我們現在很需要發展的一個環節。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：最後，其實我本來是想要明天再問，今天有時間就再多問一下。其實如果勞工願意在法定的範圍內加班，某種程度上也是讓勞資雙方能夠靈活調度人力，但是根據我們財政部台財稅第16713號函解釋，加班46小時以上不能免稅，換句話說，勞工願意努力加班，雇主也願意讓勞工加班，卻因為這樣的規定，降低了勞資雙方在加班上面的意願和協調。我們都說越努力越幸運，要拼才會贏，但是到頭來卻越努力，繳越多的稅金，這個部分有沒有可能請勞動部來代表勞工跟我們的財政部協調，重新解釋認定免稅範圍的可能性呢？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，因為這一種就是……當然啦，所得是一定要課稅，憑良心講，因為這個稅收也是國家財政的一部分。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是這個部分就是一個邏輯上的問題，他們就是因為真的需要加班。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，這有一個悖論，因為事實上我們的加班上限就是46小時，除非說有雙方協商，才能超過46小時，如果勞動部主動去幫46小時以上的……這好像是我們在鼓勵加班嗎？"],["廖委員偉翔：但現在就是說，因為很多勞工反映說他們需要加班，他們需要加班賺這些錢，但是變成他想要賺錢，雇主也願意讓他加班的情況之下，當然就是說他們雙方都有這個意願，而不是雇主逼迫他的情況之下。"],["何部長佩珊：是啦，合意，合意可以再延長……"],["廖委員偉翔：他有意願加班的情況之下，對不對？他就是需要錢嘛，所以有很多勞工反映說他需要錢、他需要加班，但是加了班之後，超過的部分還要被課稅，因為你們本來有免稅的quota嘛，本來是46小時以內嘛，但現在就是說增加的部分怎麼辦？我希望這個部分是不是……"],["何部長佩珊：我們研議看看好嗎？"],["廖委員偉翔：對，我是在幫一些勞工發出他們的心聲。"],["何部長佩珊：了解、是。"],["廖委員偉翔：可以嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我們研究看看。"],["廖委員偉翔：那你這個研究的結果可不可以也在一個月內給本席，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好，我們再給委員回復。"],["廖委員偉翔：書面報告給本席。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，下一位我們請蘇清泉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}}