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00:00:22,289\n主席,有請財政部莊部長跟101董事長、賈董事長。好,莊部長跟賈董事長。賈董慢慢來。賈董事長。對對,是你,沒有錯。這邊姓賈應該只有你一位。委員好。時間先不要計算,等賈董來。\n\n2\n00:00:30,641 --> 00:00:46,003\n對,第一次沒有,第二次有,剛剛沒有經理現在有我先就交給賈董,賈董你在臉書上說那個時間一般的網友其實沒有批評但是期待不夠滿足,就時間有人認為太短那你對外講的是說沒有贊助單位是不是?\n\n3\n00:00:47,397 --> 00:01:16,497\n對,沒有任何的贊助的企業因為國慶煙火是一個很重要的事情現場有很多公股銀行的董事長在這邊你希望哪一位贊助你可以點名一下本席可以協助你所有的人都可以贊助,謝謝然後我們明年就會有開放企業贊助所以請大家多多贊助我們這個部長,你要不要先承諾一下2014年你在關照的不是嗎?兆豐金應該是最大的股份嘛,對不對?董董\n\n4\n00:01:18,079 --> 00:01:22,426\n這應該你自己處理還要找其他公股、銀行一起處理比較好這漏氣餒\n\n5\n00:01:27,236 --> 00:01:44,869\n這麼多金主在這邊怎麼會沒有贊助者呢?我協助你啦,來本席的3303研究室來開個協調會好不好?那賈董你請回啊,明年這件事情我來處理謝謝,委員我可以跟你報告一下嗎?其實我們在整個數字上看來我們10月10號當天我們101的進館人數呢是成長了59%\n\n6\n00:01:50,954 --> 00:02:07,369\n在觀景台的人數方面國人來觀景台的部分是成長了兩倍所以整個信義計畫區是人潮洶湧的我沒有說不好只是因為太好大家希望更好就像95分希望100分一樣到你好我們努力達到100分謝謝甲董請回\n\n7\n00:02:11,023 --> 00:02:37,351\n現在請莊部長部長是謝謝委員部長那個你知道那個銀行法72條之二吼行庫即將滿水位吼那在座的公股銀行董事長巴達行庫這邊我就不一一請上來那個金管會有對外宣布說大概超過這個警戒值27%以上的有15家之多這15家當中我就效於現場坐在這邊為此15家當中有沒有各公股銀行有超過27%以上的有沒有連一家都沒有\n\n8\n00:02:41,004 --> 00:02:51,001\n公股銀行都沒有?有沒有?有的請站起來。哪一家?兆豐?兆豐?還有呢?易營?還有哪一家?張營?還有?\n\n9\n00:02:55,267 --> 00:03:17,676\n合庫、華銀五位董事長請坐總共有五家之多所以這邊我要請部長特別重視一下這五家當中都是您業管的一個範圍大致上的話因為公股銀行因為放貸、清安貸應該有直接的關聯性清安貸從八月底開辦以來新的清安貸開辦以來大概有7.8萬件\n\n10\n00:03:21,037 --> 00:03:38,162\n合併金額將近有6千億之多有些涉及出租的等等不管如何出現一個問題也就是說它在整個清安貸它確實有帶動交易量的效果你看看右邊本席準備的這個表格就清安貸的部分\n\n11\n00:03:38,942 --> 00:03:54,247\n審券交易稅條例第二條之三及第十二條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例第三條之四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例五及第十六條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例六及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例七及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審\n\n12\n00:04:03,590 --> 00:04:23,568\n好,我再讓你看另外一個數字有就是說我們個人房地合一稅2.0的部分這部分本席統計起來從2011年的部分2021年的7月開始到現在3年之久到這第一季\n\n13\n00:04:24,729 --> 00:04:45,860\n適用的對象大概有28萬件之多然後有將近6萬件一年換手也就是45%他寧願被扣那還有包括兩年內換手的33.4%差不多三分之一五年內換手的包括有75%也就是說他不怕你高稅額顯然他獲利空間遠遠大過於這個稅率的部分\n\n14\n00:04:48,781 --> 00:05:18,321\n真正超過五年不過是四分之一而已由四分之三當中都是在你增加稅務負擔的情況底下他仍然去進行交易簡單講就是這些投資客沒在怕不怕因此本席先請教你一下如果你透過這個交易稅的增加的情況底下都沒有達到嚇阻作用的情況底下這個房地合一稅的2.0有沒有可能推3.0部長請回答\n\n15\n00:05:20,442 --> 00:05:42,331\n二點零這個部分事實上它已經在稅率上最高在兩年內已經達到百分之四十五對沒有錯對因為它是所得那它所得裡面它扣掉了百分之四十五那已經不算低啦已經不算低對沒有錯然後到兩年以上到五年的時候百分之三十五我覺得這個部分這本席在問您的不是在解釋二點零的內容是請教你三點零的例子\n\n16\n00:05:44,352 --> 00:06:04,968\n其實這個稅率的部分除了稅率之外我們其實也在加強查核這個部分對於申報的情形那也做了相關的我們的國稅局做了相關的數據簡單的講這個2.0的這個政策工具沒有達到預期的目標啦其實短期交易的數量其實有已經2.0比1.0在短期交易的部分已經有抑制到降低了14%\n\n17\n00:06:06,445 --> 00:06:28,094\n沒有,但是就成交的內容來說還是非常的驚人一、基本上不是要比1.0好而已做對話是要遏止他交易的那個熱絡量嘛,不是嗎所以那個本席再請教你一點就是說有關於這個清安貸的部分剛剛有提到說他放款五年剛好他這五年他持有五年之後才開始繳息他這五年\n\n18\n00:06:30,616 --> 00:06:52,035\n五年之內它的利息是非常低然後剛好隔五年之後呢你剛好又適逢這一個兩稅合一的五年的條款經過之後那不是做漲了讓整個有投資的可能性差在持有五年的過程當中有那個優惠的這個這個利息可是五年之後呢又減少了這一個稅率的一個負擔會不會這樣子\n\n19\n00:06:54,571 --> 00:07:21,524\n委員報告雖然新清安貸款有關寬限期延長5年但是我們統計真正用寬限期到5年的只有25%並不是每個人都用而且裡面有51%他根本就沒有用寬限期那在寬限期是3年的是14%換言之這些青年朋友們去買了第一間自住用的房屋他基本上還是想要盡快把本金趕快還掉\n\n20\n00:07:22,985 --> 00:07:47,362\n本席不是質疑所有親安帶的人都是如此本席就是提醒你說呢20%以上21%以上用到五年寬限期的這個部分你要特別注意是不是有搭配投資的組合的可能性好不好所以說這個也就請教您的部分有沒有可能有滾動檢討的空間既然沒有用到五年的部分的話那何必用五年讓他有投機的機會呢不是嗎\n\n21\n00:07:48,803 --> 00:08:12,338\n所以說本席請教你的部分就是兩個政策工具一個2.0會不會變3.0第二個部分清安貸的部分是不是有重新檢討的空間新清安的部分已經檢討第一個就是說對於投資投資的規納的空間還有限貸一次放得太寬啦本席就聽不懂我的意思就放得太寬你要重新檢討啦好不好好再拉回來一點齁我讓親友見到那個副主委今晚副主委時間請暫停\n\n22\n00:08:18,260 --> 00:08:43,729\n是,委員好那個副組長你剛剛在報告的時候不是每一個委員都同意這個當沖降稅本席就抱持了反對的立場當沖降稅的結果其實你現在寫的理由是說維持這個證券市場交易動能減低的這個證券市場不確定性我跟你講當沖降稅反而會增加不確定性這個不是真正的理由真正的理由是什麼真正的理由是食髓滋味\n\n23\n00:08:45,129 --> 00:09:01,781\n此為之為的結果呢就還要再延長甚至想要入法我說實在的我基本立場認為說你如果說要用稅賦工具來作為造勢的東冷的話與其推當沖減半不如啊推TESA比較好\n\n24\n00:09:02,817 --> 00:09:29,514\n這比較長期的作用TISA跟ETF或者跟REITS的部分會比較有中長期造勢的功能這才是好的方式你去看當中的結果從第一次降、第二次降、第三次降外資當中的比例從7.07%變30.70%如果現在在第四次當中降稅的話它會成港到多少你只是優惠到外資而已而外資的部分我上次就提到了它每天賺1億所以累積起來你去看\n\n25\n00:09:30,254 --> 00:09:52,415\n真正當中降稅的大部分的投資人都是韭菜實質真正賺到錢的就是政府就是業者、證券業者還有包括外資如果業者、證券公會的人一直很擔心不能造勢的話一定要這個交易稅減半的情況底下才能造勢的話那業者也可以手續費免費啊\n\n26\n00:09:54,144 --> 00:09:58,916\n不是嗎?你就將它手續的免費也可以造勢啊為什麼一定要用透過稅金的減免啊?\n\n27\n00:10:00,267 --> 00:10:28,968\n副主委請說是那後面先回答TISA這邊呢我們也非常的贊同我們也在力推那目前為止我們跟財政部溝通也非常的一個順暢我們會提出一個相對比較好的方案當沖降稅這個問題是這樣子那我提一個比喻啦就好像一個鹽我們那個那個芭樂撒點鹽會比較甜一些些所以是說我提另外一個比喻啦嘿是就是說他是特效要當成保健品在吃啦嘿\n\n28\n00:10:30,111 --> 00:10:31,813\n市長,您認為當初的部分呢?您同不同意入法?\n\n29\n00:10:48,629 --> 00:11:08,918\n同不同有落日條款我想證券市場的一個變動應該是順其萬變應該要看時間、看情形要中長期的思考吧滾動的檢討、滾動的檢討條款所以說不應該入法嘛你暫情是或是嘛所以說我希望下次是一個日落條款啦日出的部分應該是在用TESA才對啦好不好\n\n30\n00:11:09,618 --> 00:11:20,924\n提灑部分我們跟機關委託一致對對對但我們租稅工具要用在對的地方好不好租稅工具要用在對的地方啦是的沒錯沒錯我們接下來請副市長副市長最後一件個案跟你說一下齁\n\n31\n00:11:22,314 --> 00:11:43,909\n最近有一個這個0087不是啊不是87是00887爆點你去啊10月8號跟10月9號依照大盤的50指數的部分呢它基本上在10月8號的時候誤差值才0.01啊就到10月隔天而已它的整個偏離度變27.84你不覺得太誇張了嗎\n\n32\n00:11:48,527 --> 00:12:05,320\n其實在這個地方的話其實從以前到現在第一次遇到那這也是我想這是完美的小風暴為什麼說小風暴好險它的總值淨值只有18億那單位是1.9億那原因主要就是說其實也是中國那邊大量的激勵股市\n\n33\n00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:33,689\n後來整個股票往上漲不過因為10月1號到10月7號之間因為他們這個十一長假所以沒有一個交易量我們這邊持續的一個交易所以在這個地方就一直上漲投資人的一個追買所以造成了這種情形你確定如此這是初步調查的結果嗎?沒有人為炒作的方式或不法的行為嗎?所以在這部分的話\n\n34\n00:12:36,519 --> 00:13:02,164\n所以現在我們已經請永豐投信提出說明而且會有監視的一個機制他也承諾會再怎樣盡速的銷你這個溢價拉到百分之三以內而且我們已經專案查核專案查核什麼時候報告會提出來這伊提豐好不容易有一個比較讓國人有信心的投資工具你不能透過這個案件來打擊投資人的信心好不好來多久\n\n35\n00:13:03,328 --> 00:13:21,700\n是貴買在徹查還是證交所在徹查?貴買徹查到底何時出來?這很像三十幾年前封閉型基金的一個炒作的狀況喔你要小心喔未必是市場的狀況而是整個人為的因素喔\n\n36\n00:13:23,049 --> 00:13:48,805\n董事長向委員報告我們已經請永豐把投信把他的這個相關我們要的資料呢給我們在三天內給我們然後我們預計在大概一個禮拜到兩個禮拜之間把這報告做好兩個禮拜之內看你的報告謝謝部長、謝謝副主委、謝謝主席謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n129\t22289\t主席,有請財政部莊部長跟101董事長、賈董事長。好,莊部長跟賈董事長。賈董慢慢來。 賈董事長。對對,是你,沒有錯。這邊姓賈應該只有你一位。委員好。時間先不要計算,等賈董來。\n30641\t46003\t對,第一次沒有,第二次有,剛剛沒有經理現在有我先就交給賈董,賈董你在臉書上說那個時間一般的網友其實沒有批評但是期待不夠滿足,就時間有人認為太短那你對外講的是說沒有贊助單位是不是?\n47397\t76497\t對,沒有任何的贊助的企業因為國慶煙火是一個很重要的事情現場有很多公股銀行的董事長在這邊你希望哪一位贊助你可以點名一下本席可以協助你所有的人都可以贊助,謝謝然後我們明年就會有開放企業贊助所以請大家多多贊助我們這個部長,你要不要先承諾一下2014年你在關照的不是嗎?兆豐金應該是最大的股份嘛,對不對?董董\n78079\t82426\t這應該你自己處理還要找其他公股、銀行一起處理比較好這漏氣餒\n87236\t104869\t這麼多金主在這邊怎麼會沒有贊助者呢?我協助你啦,來本席的3303研究室來開個協調會好不好?那賈董你請回啊,明年這件事情我來處理謝謝,委員我可以跟你報告一下嗎?其實我們在整個數字上看來我們10月10號當天我們101的進館人數呢是成長了59%\n110954\t127369\t在觀景台的人數方面國人來觀景台的部分是成長了兩倍所以整個信義計畫區是人潮洶湧的我沒有說不好只是因為太好大家希望更好就像95分希望100分一樣到你好我們努力達到100分謝謝甲董請回\n131023\t157351\t現在請莊部長部長是謝謝委員部長那個你知道那個銀行法72條之二吼行庫即將滿水位吼那在座的公股銀行董事長巴達行庫這邊我就不一一請上來那個金管會有對外宣布說大概超過這個警戒值27%以上的有15家之多這15家當中我就效於現場坐在這邊為此15家當中有沒有各公股銀行有超過27%以上的有沒有連一家都沒有\n161004\t171001\t公股銀行都沒有?有沒有?有的請站起來。哪一家?兆豐?兆豐?還有呢?易營?還有哪一家?張營?還有?\n175267\t197676\t合庫、華銀五位董事長請坐總共有五家之多所以這邊我要請部長特別重視一下這五家當中都是您業管的一個範圍大致上的話因為公股銀行因為放貸、清安貸應該有直接的關聯性清安貸從八月底開辦以來新的清安貸開辦以來大概有7.8萬件\n201037\t218162\t合併金額將近有6千億之多有些涉及出租的等等不管如何出現一個問題也就是說它在整個清安貸它確實有帶動交易量的效果你看看右邊本席準備的這個表格就清安貸的部分\n218942\t234247\t審券交易稅條例第二條之三及第十二條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例第三條之四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例五及第十六條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例六及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例七及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審\n243590\t263568\t好,我再讓你看另外一個數字有就是說我們個人房地合一稅2.0的部分這部分本席統計起來從2011年的部分2021年的7月開始到現在3年之久到這第一季\n264729\t285860\t適用的對象大概有28萬件之多然後有將近6萬件一年換手也就是45%他寧願被扣那還有包括兩年內換手的33.4%差不多三分之一五年內換手的包括有75%也就是說他不怕你高稅額顯然他獲利空間遠遠大過於這個稅率的部分\n288781\t318321\t真正超過五年不過是四分之一而已由四分之三當中都是在你增加稅務負擔的情況底下他仍然去進行交易簡單講就是這些投資客沒在怕不怕因此本席先請教你一下如果你透過這個交易稅的增加的情況底下都沒有達到嚇阻作用的情況底下這個房地合一稅的2.0有沒有可能推3.0部長請回答\n320442\t342331\t二點零這個部分事實上它已經在稅率上最高在兩年內已經達到百分之四十五對沒有錯對因為它是所得那它所得裡面它扣掉了百分之四十五那已經不算低啦已經不算低對沒有錯然後到兩年以上到五年的時候百分之三十五我覺得這個部分這本席在問您的不是在解釋二點零的內容是請教你三點零的例子\n344352\t364968\t其實這個稅率的部分除了稅率之外我們其實也在加強查核這個部分對於申報的情形那也做了相關的我們的國稅局做了相關的數據簡單的講這個2.0的這個政策工具沒有達到預期的目標啦其實短期交易的數量其實有已經2.0比1.0在短期交易的部分已經有抑制到降低了14%\n366445\t388094\t沒有,但是就成交的內容來說還是非常的驚人一、基本上不是要比1.0好而已做對話是要遏止他交易的那個熱絡量嘛,不是嗎所以那個本席再請教你一點就是說有關於這個清安貸的部分剛剛有提到說他放款五年剛好他這五年他持有五年之後才開始繳息他這五年\n390616\t412035\t五年之內它的利息是非常低然後剛好隔五年之後呢你剛好又適逢這一個兩稅合一的五年的條款經過之後那不是做漲了讓整個有投資的可能性差在持有五年的過程當中有那個優惠的這個這個利息可是五年之後呢又減少了這一個稅率的一個負擔會不會這樣子\n414571\t441524\t委員報告雖然新清安貸款有關寬限期延長5年但是我們統計真正用寬限期到5年的只有25%並不是每個人都用而且裡面有51%他根本就沒有用寬限期那在寬限期是3年的是14%換言之這些青年朋友們去買了第一間自住用的房屋他基本上還是想要盡快把本金趕快還掉\n442985\t467362\t本席不是質疑所有親安帶的人都是如此本席就是提醒你說呢20%以上21%以上用到五年寬限期的這個部分你要特別注意是不是有搭配投資的組合的可能性好不好所以說這個也就請教您的部分有沒有可能有滾動檢討的空間既然沒有用到五年的部分的話那何必用五年讓他有投機的機會呢不是嗎\n468803\t492338\t所以說本席請教你的部分就是兩個政策工具一個2.0會不會變3.0第二個部分清安貸的部分是不是有重新檢討的空間新清安的部分已經檢討第一個就是說對於投資投資的規納的空間還有限貸一次放得太寬啦本席就聽不懂我的意思就放得太寬你要重新檢討啦好不好好再拉回來一點齁我讓親友見到那個副主委今晚副主委時間請暫停\n498260\t523729\t是,委員好那個副組長你剛剛在報告的時候不是每一個委員都同意這個當沖降稅本席就抱持了反對的立場當沖降稅的結果其實你現在寫的理由是說維持這個證券市場交易動能減低的這個證券市場不確定性我跟你講當沖降稅反而會增加不確定性這個不是真正的理由真正的理由是什麼真正的理由是食髓滋味\n525129\t541781\t此為之為的結果呢就還要再延長甚至想要入法我說實在的我基本立場認為說你如果說要用稅賦工具來作為造勢的東冷的話與其推當沖減半不如啊推TESA比較好\n542817\t569514\t這比較長期的作用TISA跟ETF或者跟REITS的部分會比較有中長期造勢的功能這才是好的方式你去看當中的結果從第一次降、第二次降、第三次降外資當中的比例從7.07%變30.70%如果現在在第四次當中降稅的話它會成港到多少你只是優惠到外資而已而外資的部分我上次就提到了它每天賺1億所以累積起來你去看\n570254\t592415\t真正當中降稅的大部分的投資人都是韭菜實質真正賺到錢的就是政府就是業者、證券業者還有包括外資如果業者、證券公會的人一直很擔心不能造勢的話一定要這個交易稅減半的情況底下才能造勢的話那業者也可以手續費免費啊\n594144\t598916\t不是嗎?你就將它手續的免費也可以造勢啊為什麼一定要用透過稅金的減免啊?\n600267\t628968\t副主委請說是那後面先回答TISA這邊呢我們也非常的贊同我們也在力推那目前為止我們跟財政部溝通也非常的一個順暢我們會提出一個相對比較好的方案當沖降稅這個問題是這樣子那我提一個比喻啦就好像一個鹽我們那個那個芭樂撒點鹽會比較甜一些些所以是說我提另外一個比喻啦嘿是就是說他是特效要當成保健品在吃啦嘿\n630111\t631813\t市長,您認為當初的部分呢?您同不同意入法?\n648629\t668918\t同不同有落日條款我想證券市場的一個變動應該是順其萬變應該要看時間、看情形要中長期的思考吧滾動的檢討、滾動的檢討條款所以說不應該入法嘛你暫情是或是嘛所以說我希望下次是一個日落條款啦日出的部分應該是在用TESA才對啦好不好\n669618\t680924\t提灑部分我們跟機關委託一致對對對但我們租稅工具要用在對的地方好不好租稅工具要用在對的地方啦是的沒錯沒錯我們接下來請副市長副市長最後一件個案跟你說一下齁\n682314\t703909\t最近有一個這個0087不是啊不是87是00887爆點你去啊10月8號跟10月9號依照大盤的50指數的部分呢它基本上在10月8號的時候誤差值才0.01啊就到10月隔天而已它的整個偏離度變27.84你不覺得太誇張了嗎\n708527\t725320\t其實在這個地方的話其實從以前到現在第一次遇到那這也是我想這是完美的小風暴為什麼說小風暴好險它的總值淨值只有18億那單位是1.9億那原因主要就是說其實也是中國那邊大量的激勵股市\n726480\t753689\t後來整個股票往上漲不過因為10月1號到10月7號之間因為他們這個十一長假所以沒有一個交易量我們這邊持續的一個交易所以在這個地方就一直上漲投資人的一個追買所以造成了這種情形你確定如此這是初步調查的結果嗎?沒有人為炒作的方式或不法的行為嗎?所以在這部分的話\n756519\t782164\t所以現在我們已經請永豐投信提出說明而且會有監視的一個機制他也承諾會再怎樣盡速的銷你這個溢價拉到百分之三以內而且我們已經專案查核專案查核什麼時候報告會提出來這伊提豐好不容易有一個比較讓國人有信心的投資工具你不能透過這個案件來打擊投資人的信心好不好來 多久\n783328\t801700\t是貴買在徹查還是證交所在徹查?貴買徹查到底何時出來?這很像三十幾年前封閉型基金的一個炒作的狀況喔你要小心喔未必是市場的狀況而是整個人為的因素喔\n803049\t828805\t董事長向委員報告我們已經請永豐把投信把他的這個相關我們要的資料呢給我們在三天內給我們然後我們預計在大概一個禮拜到兩個禮拜之間把這報告做好兩個禮拜之內看你的報告謝謝部長、謝謝副主委、謝謝主席謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席,有請財政部莊部長跟101董事長、賈董事長。好,莊部長跟賈董事長。賈董慢慢來。 賈董事長。對對,是你,沒有錯。這邊姓賈應該只有你一位。委員好。時間先不要計算,等賈董來。\n對,第一次沒有,第二次有,剛剛沒有經理現在有我先就交給賈董,賈董你在臉書上說那個時間一般的網友其實沒有批評但是期待不夠滿足,就時間有人認為太短那你對外講的是說沒有贊助單位是不是?\n對,沒有任何的贊助的企業因為國慶煙火是一個很重要的事情現場有很多公股銀行的董事長在這邊你希望哪一位贊助你可以點名一下本席可以協助你所有的人都可以贊助,謝謝然後我們明年就會有開放企業贊助所以請大家多多贊助我們這個部長,你要不要先承諾一下2014年你在關照的不是嗎?兆豐金應該是最大的股份嘛,對不對?董董\n這應該你自己處理還要找其他公股、銀行一起處理比較好這漏氣餒\n這麼多金主在這邊怎麼會沒有贊助者呢?我協助你啦,來本席的3303研究室來開個協調會好不好?那賈董你請回啊,明年這件事情我來處理謝謝,委員我可以跟你報告一下嗎?其實我們在整個數字上看來我們10月10號當天我們101的進館人數呢是成長了59%\n在觀景台的人數方面國人來觀景台的部分是成長了兩倍所以整個信義計畫區是人潮洶湧的我沒有說不好只是因為太好大家希望更好就像95分希望100分一樣到你好我們努力達到100分謝謝甲董請回\n現在請莊部長部長是謝謝委員部長那個你知道那個銀行法72條之二吼行庫即將滿水位吼那在座的公股銀行董事長巴達行庫這邊我就不一一請上來那個金管會有對外宣布說大概超過這個警戒值27%以上的有15家之多這15家當中我就效於現場坐在這邊為此15家當中有沒有各公股銀行有超過27%以上的有沒有連一家都沒有\n公股銀行都沒有?有沒有?有的請站起來。哪一家?兆豐?兆豐?還有呢?易營?還有哪一家?張營?還有?\n合庫、華銀五位董事長請坐總共有五家之多所以這邊我要請部長特別重視一下這五家當中都是您業管的一個範圍大致上的話因為公股銀行因為放貸、清安貸應該有直接的關聯性清安貸從八月底開辦以來新的清安貸開辦以來大概有7.8萬件\n合併金額將近有6千億之多有些涉及出租的等等不管如何出現一個問題也就是說它在整個清安貸它確實有帶動交易量的效果你看看右邊本席準備的這個表格就清安貸的部分\n審券交易稅條例第二條之三及第十二條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例第三條之四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例五及第十六條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例六及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例七及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審\n好,我再讓你看另外一個數字有就是說我們個人房地合一稅2.0的部分這部分本席統計起來從2011年的部分2021年的7月開始到現在3年之久到這第一季\n適用的對象大概有28萬件之多然後有將近6萬件一年換手也就是45%他寧願被扣那還有包括兩年內換手的33.4%差不多三分之一五年內換手的包括有75%也就是說他不怕你高稅額顯然他獲利空間遠遠大過於這個稅率的部分\n真正超過五年不過是四分之一而已由四分之三當中都是在你增加稅務負擔的情況底下他仍然去進行交易簡單講就是這些投資客沒在怕不怕因此本席先請教你一下如果你透過這個交易稅的增加的情況底下都沒有達到嚇阻作用的情況底下這個房地合一稅的2.0有沒有可能推3.0部長請回答\n二點零這個部分事實上它已經在稅率上最高在兩年內已經達到百分之四十五對沒有錯對因為它是所得那它所得裡面它扣掉了百分之四十五那已經不算低啦已經不算低對沒有錯然後到兩年以上到五年的時候百分之三十五我覺得這個部分這本席在問您的不是在解釋二點零的內容是請教你三點零的例子\n其實這個稅率的部分除了稅率之外我們其實也在加強查核這個部分對於申報的情形那也做了相關的我們的國稅局做了相關的數據簡單的講這個2.0的這個政策工具沒有達到預期的目標啦其實短期交易的數量其實有已經2.0比1.0在短期交易的部分已經有抑制到降低了14%\n沒有,但是就成交的內容來說還是非常的驚人一、基本上不是要比1.0好而已做對話是要遏止他交易的那個熱絡量嘛,不是嗎所以那個本席再請教你一點就是說有關於這個清安貸的部分剛剛有提到說他放款五年剛好他這五年他持有五年之後才開始繳息他這五年\n五年之內它的利息是非常低然後剛好隔五年之後呢你剛好又適逢這一個兩稅合一的五年的條款經過之後那不是做漲了讓整個有投資的可能性差在持有五年的過程當中有那個優惠的這個這個利息可是五年之後呢又減少了這一個稅率的一個負擔會不會這樣子\n委員報告雖然新清安貸款有關寬限期延長5年但是我們統計真正用寬限期到5年的只有25%並不是每個人都用而且裡面有51%他根本就沒有用寬限期那在寬限期是3年的是14%換言之這些青年朋友們去買了第一間自住用的房屋他基本上還是想要盡快把本金趕快還掉\n本席不是質疑所有親安帶的人都是如此本席就是提醒你說呢20%以上21%以上用到五年寬限期的這個部分你要特別注意是不是有搭配投資的組合的可能性好不好所以說這個也就請教您的部分有沒有可能有滾動檢討的空間既然沒有用到五年的部分的話那何必用五年讓他有投機的機會呢不是嗎\n所以說本席請教你的部分就是兩個政策工具一個2.0會不會變3.0第二個部分清安貸的部分是不是有重新檢討的空間新清安的部分已經檢討第一個就是說對於投資投資的規納的空間還有限貸一次放得太寬啦本席就聽不懂我的意思就放得太寬你要重新檢討啦好不好好再拉回來一點齁我讓親友見到那個副主委今晚副主委時間請暫停\n是,委員好那個副組長你剛剛在報告的時候不是每一個委員都同意這個當沖降稅本席就抱持了反對的立場當沖降稅的結果其實你現在寫的理由是說維持這個證券市場交易動能減低的這個證券市場不確定性我跟你講當沖降稅反而會增加不確定性這個不是真正的理由真正的理由是什麼真正的理由是食髓滋味\n此為之為的結果呢就還要再延長甚至想要入法我說實在的我基本立場認為說你如果說要用稅賦工具來作為造勢的東冷的話與其推當沖減半不如啊推TESA比較好\n這比較長期的作用TISA跟ETF或者跟REITS的部分會比較有中長期造勢的功能這才是好的方式你去看當中的結果從第一次降、第二次降、第三次降外資當中的比例從7.07%變30.70%如果現在在第四次當中降稅的話它會成港到多少你只是優惠到外資而已而外資的部分我上次就提到了它每天賺1億所以累積起來你去看\n真正當中降稅的大部分的投資人都是韭菜實質真正賺到錢的就是政府就是業者、證券業者還有包括外資如果業者、證券公會的人一直很擔心不能造勢的話一定要這個交易稅減半的情況底下才能造勢的話那業者也可以手續費免費啊\n不是嗎?你就將它手續的免費也可以造勢啊為什麼一定要用透過稅金的減免啊?\n副主委請說是那後面先回答TISA這邊呢我們也非常的贊同我們也在力推那目前為止我們跟財政部溝通也非常的一個順暢我們會提出一個相對比較好的方案當沖降稅這個問題是這樣子那我提一個比喻啦就好像一個鹽我們那個那個芭樂撒點鹽會比較甜一些些所以是說我提另外一個比喻啦嘿是就是說他是特效要當成保健品在吃啦嘿\n市長,您認為當初的部分呢?您同不同意入法?\n同不同有落日條款我想證券市場的一個變動應該是順其萬變應該要看時間、看情形要中長期的思考吧滾動的檢討、滾動的檢討條款所以說不應該入法嘛你暫情是或是嘛所以說我希望下次是一個日落條款啦日出的部分應該是在用TESA才對啦好不好\n提灑部分我們跟機關委託一致對對對但我們租稅工具要用在對的地方好不好租稅工具要用在對的地方啦是的沒錯沒錯我們接下來請副市長副市長最後一件個案跟你說一下齁\n最近有一個這個0087不是啊不是87是00887爆點你去啊10月8號跟10月9號依照大盤的50指數的部分呢它基本上在10月8號的時候誤差值才0.01啊就到10月隔天而已它的整個偏離度變27.84你不覺得太誇張了嗎\n其實在這個地方的話其實從以前到現在第一次遇到那這也是我想這是完美的小風暴為什麼說小風暴好險它的總值淨值只有18億那單位是1.9億那原因主要就是說其實也是中國那邊大量的激勵股市\n後來整個股票往上漲不過因為10月1號到10月7號之間因為他們這個十一長假所以沒有一個交易量我們這邊持續的一個交易所以在這個地方就一直上漲投資人的一個追買所以造成了這種情形你確定如此這是初步調查的結果嗎?沒有人為炒作的方式或不法的行為嗎?所以在這部分的話\n所以現在我們已經請永豐投信提出說明而且會有監視的一個機制他也承諾會再怎樣盡速的銷你這個溢價拉到百分之三以內而且我們已經專案查核專案查核什麼時候報告會提出來這伊提豐好不容易有一個比較讓國人有信心的投資工具你不能透過這個案件來打擊投資人的信心好不好來 多久\n是貴買在徹查還是證交所在徹查?貴買徹查到底何時出來?這很像三十幾年前封閉型基金的一個炒作的狀況喔你要小心喔未必是市場的狀況而是整個人為的因素喔\n董事長向委員報告我們已經請永豐把投信把他的這個相關我們要的資料呢給我們在三天內給我們然後我們預計在大概一個禮拜到兩個禮拜之間把這報告做好兩個禮拜之內看你的報告謝謝部長、謝謝副主委、謝謝主席謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.129 --> 00:22.289\n主席,有請財政部莊部長跟101董事長、賈董事長。好,莊部長跟賈董事長。賈董慢慢來。賈董事長。對對,是你,沒有錯。這邊姓賈應該只有你一位。委員好。時間先不要計算,等賈董來。\n\n00:30.641 --> 00:46.003\n對,第一次沒有,第二次有,剛剛沒有經理現在有我先就交給賈董,賈董你在臉書上說那個時間一般的網友其實沒有批評但是期待不夠滿足,就時間有人認為太短那你對外講的是說沒有贊助單位是不是?\n\n00:47.397 --> 01:16.497\n對,沒有任何的贊助的企業因為國慶煙火是一個很重要的事情現場有很多公股銀行的董事長在這邊你希望哪一位贊助你可以點名一下本席可以協助你所有的人都可以贊助,謝謝然後我們明年就會有開放企業贊助所以請大家多多贊助我們這個部長,你要不要先承諾一下2014年你在關照的不是嗎?兆豐金應該是最大的股份嘛,對不對?董董\n\n01:18.079 --> 01:22.426\n這應該你自己處理還要找其他公股、銀行一起處理比較好這漏氣餒\n\n01:27.236 --> 01:44.869\n這麼多金主在這邊怎麼會沒有贊助者呢?我協助你啦,來本席的3303研究室來開個協調會好不好?那賈董你請回啊,明年這件事情我來處理謝謝,委員我可以跟你報告一下嗎?其實我們在整個數字上看來我們10月10號當天我們101的進館人數呢是成長了59%\n\n01:50.954 --> 02:07.369\n在觀景台的人數方面國人來觀景台的部分是成長了兩倍所以整個信義計畫區是人潮洶湧的我沒有說不好只是因為太好大家希望更好就像95分希望100分一樣到你好我們努力達到100分謝謝甲董請回\n\n02:11.023 --> 02:37.351\n現在請莊部長部長是謝謝委員部長那個你知道那個銀行法72條之二吼行庫即將滿水位吼那在座的公股銀行董事長巴達行庫這邊我就不一一請上來那個金管會有對外宣布說大概超過這個警戒值27%以上的有15家之多這15家當中我就效於現場坐在這邊為此15家當中有沒有各公股銀行有超過27%以上的有沒有連一家都沒有\n\n02:41.004 --> 02:51.001\n公股銀行都沒有?有沒有?有的請站起來。哪一家?兆豐?兆豐?還有呢?易營?還有哪一家?張營?還有?\n\n02:55.267 --> 03:17.676\n合庫、華銀五位董事長請坐總共有五家之多所以這邊我要請部長特別重視一下這五家當中都是您業管的一個範圍大致上的話因為公股銀行因為放貸、清安貸應該有直接的關聯性清安貸從八月底開辦以來新的清安貸開辦以來大概有7.8萬件\n\n03:21.037 --> 03:38.162\n合併金額將近有6千億之多有些涉及出租的等等不管如何出現一個問題也就是說它在整個清安貸它確實有帶動交易量的效果你看看右邊本席準備的這個表格就清安貸的部分\n\n03:38.942 --> 03:54.247\n審券交易稅條例第二條之三及第十二條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例第三條之四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例五及第十六條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例六及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例七及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審\n\n04:03.590 --> 04:23.568\n好,我再讓你看另外一個數字有就是說我們個人房地合一稅2.0的部分這部分本席統計起來從2011年的部分2021年的7月開始到現在3年之久到這第一季\n\n04:24.729 --> 04:45.860\n適用的對象大概有28萬件之多然後有將近6萬件一年換手也就是45%他寧願被扣那還有包括兩年內換手的33.4%差不多三分之一五年內換手的包括有75%也就是說他不怕你高稅額顯然他獲利空間遠遠大過於這個稅率的部分\n\n04:48.781 --> 05:18.321\n真正超過五年不過是四分之一而已由四分之三當中都是在你增加稅務負擔的情況底下他仍然去進行交易簡單講就是這些投資客沒在怕不怕因此本席先請教你一下如果你透過這個交易稅的增加的情況底下都沒有達到嚇阻作用的情況底下這個房地合一稅的2.0有沒有可能推3.0部長請回答\n\n05:20.442 --> 05:42.331\n二點零這個部分事實上它已經在稅率上最高在兩年內已經達到百分之四十五對沒有錯對因為它是所得那它所得裡面它扣掉了百分之四十五那已經不算低啦已經不算低對沒有錯然後到兩年以上到五年的時候百分之三十五我覺得這個部分這本席在問您的不是在解釋二點零的內容是請教你三點零的例子\n\n05:44.352 --> 06:04.968\n其實這個稅率的部分除了稅率之外我們其實也在加強查核這個部分對於申報的情形那也做了相關的我們的國稅局做了相關的數據簡單的講這個2.0的這個政策工具沒有達到預期的目標啦其實短期交易的數量其實有已經2.0比1.0在短期交易的部分已經有抑制到降低了14%\n\n06:06.445 --> 06:28.094\n沒有,但是就成交的內容來說還是非常的驚人一、基本上不是要比1.0好而已做對話是要遏止他交易的那個熱絡量嘛,不是嗎所以那個本席再請教你一點就是說有關於這個清安貸的部分剛剛有提到說他放款五年剛好他這五年他持有五年之後才開始繳息他這五年\n\n06:30.616 --> 06:52.035\n五年之內它的利息是非常低然後剛好隔五年之後呢你剛好又適逢這一個兩稅合一的五年的條款經過之後那不是做漲了讓整個有投資的可能性差在持有五年的過程當中有那個優惠的這個這個利息可是五年之後呢又減少了這一個稅率的一個負擔會不會這樣子\n\n06:54.571 --> 07:21.524\n委員報告雖然新清安貸款有關寬限期延長5年但是我們統計真正用寬限期到5年的只有25%並不是每個人都用而且裡面有51%他根本就沒有用寬限期那在寬限期是3年的是14%換言之這些青年朋友們去買了第一間自住用的房屋他基本上還是想要盡快把本金趕快還掉\n\n07:22.985 --> 07:47.362\n本席不是質疑所有親安帶的人都是如此本席就是提醒你說呢20%以上21%以上用到五年寬限期的這個部分你要特別注意是不是有搭配投資的組合的可能性好不好所以說這個也就請教您的部分有沒有可能有滾動檢討的空間既然沒有用到五年的部分的話那何必用五年讓他有投機的機會呢不是嗎\n\n07:48.803 --> 08:12.338\n所以說本席請教你的部分就是兩個政策工具一個2.0會不會變3.0第二個部分清安貸的部分是不是有重新檢討的空間新清安的部分已經檢討第一個就是說對於投資投資的規納的空間還有限貸一次放得太寬啦本席就聽不懂我的意思就放得太寬你要重新檢討啦好不好好再拉回來一點齁我讓親友見到那個副主委今晚副主委時間請暫停\n\n08:18.260 --> 08:43.729\n是,委員好那個副組長你剛剛在報告的時候不是每一個委員都同意這個當沖降稅本席就抱持了反對的立場當沖降稅的結果其實你現在寫的理由是說維持這個證券市場交易動能減低的這個證券市場不確定性我跟你講當沖降稅反而會增加不確定性這個不是真正的理由真正的理由是什麼真正的理由是食髓滋味\n\n08:45.129 --> 09:01.781\n此為之為的結果呢就還要再延長甚至想要入法我說實在的我基本立場認為說你如果說要用稅賦工具來作為造勢的東冷的話與其推當沖減半不如啊推TESA比較好\n\n09:02.817 --> 09:29.514\n這比較長期的作用TISA跟ETF或者跟REITS的部分會比較有中長期造勢的功能這才是好的方式你去看當中的結果從第一次降、第二次降、第三次降外資當中的比例從7.07%變30.70%如果現在在第四次當中降稅的話它會成港到多少你只是優惠到外資而已而外資的部分我上次就提到了它每天賺1億所以累積起來你去看\n\n09:30.254 --> 09:52.415\n真正當中降稅的大部分的投資人都是韭菜實質真正賺到錢的就是政府就是業者、證券業者還有包括外資如果業者、證券公會的人一直很擔心不能造勢的話一定要這個交易稅減半的情況底下才能造勢的話那業者也可以手續費免費啊\n\n09:54.144 --> 09:58.916\n不是嗎?你就將它手續的免費也可以造勢啊為什麼一定要用透過稅金的減免啊?\n\n10:00.267 --> 10:28.968\n副主委請說是那後面先回答TISA這邊呢我們也非常的贊同我們也在力推那目前為止我們跟財政部溝通也非常的一個順暢我們會提出一個相對比較好的方案當沖降稅這個問題是這樣子那我提一個比喻啦就好像一個鹽我們那個那個芭樂撒點鹽會比較甜一些些所以是說我提另外一個比喻啦嘿是就是說他是特效要當成保健品在吃啦嘿\n\n10:30.111 --> 10:31.813\n市長,您認為當初的部分呢?您同不同意入法?\n\n10:48.629 --> 11:08.918\n同不同有落日條款我想證券市場的一個變動應該是順其萬變應該要看時間、看情形要中長期的思考吧滾動的檢討、滾動的檢討條款所以說不應該入法嘛你暫情是或是嘛所以說我希望下次是一個日落條款啦日出的部分應該是在用TESA才對啦好不好\n\n11:09.618 --> 11:20.924\n提灑部分我們跟機關委託一致對對對但我們租稅工具要用在對的地方好不好租稅工具要用在對的地方啦是的沒錯沒錯我們接下來請副市長副市長最後一件個案跟你說一下齁\n\n11:22.314 --> 11:43.909\n最近有一個這個0087不是啊不是87是00887爆點你去啊10月8號跟10月9號依照大盤的50指數的部分呢它基本上在10月8號的時候誤差值才0.01啊就到10月隔天而已它的整個偏離度變27.84你不覺得太誇張了嗎\n\n11:48.527 --> 12:05.320\n其實在這個地方的話其實從以前到現在第一次遇到那這也是我想這是完美的小風暴為什麼說小風暴好險它的總值淨值只有18億那單位是1.9億那原因主要就是說其實也是中國那邊大量的激勵股市\n\n12:06.480 --> 12:33.689\n後來整個股票往上漲不過因為10月1號到10月7號之間因為他們這個十一長假所以沒有一個交易量我們這邊持續的一個交易所以在這個地方就一直上漲投資人的一個追買所以造成了這種情形你確定如此這是初步調查的結果嗎?沒有人為炒作的方式或不法的行為嗎?所以在這部分的話\n\n12:36.519 --> 13:02.164\n所以現在我們已經請永豐投信提出說明而且會有監視的一個機制他也承諾會再怎樣盡速的銷你這個溢價拉到百分之三以內而且我們已經專案查核專案查核什麼時候報告會提出來這伊提豐好不容易有一個比較讓國人有信心的投資工具你不能透過這個案件來打擊投資人的信心好不好來多久\n\n13:03.328 --> 13:21.700\n是貴買在徹查還是證交所在徹查?貴買徹查到底何時出來?這很像三十幾年前封閉型基金的一個炒作的狀況喔你要小心喔未必是市場的狀況而是整個人為的因素喔\n\n13:23.049 --> 13:48.805\n董事長向委員報告我們已經請永豐把投信把他的這個相關我們要的資料呢給我們在三天內給我們然後我們預計在大概一個禮拜到兩個禮拜之間把這報告做好兩個禮拜之內看你的報告謝謝部長、謝謝副主委、謝謝主席謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.129,"end":22.289,"text":"主席,有請財政部莊部長跟101董事長、賈董事長。好,莊部長跟賈董事長。賈董慢慢來。 賈董事長。對對,是你,沒有錯。這邊姓賈應該只有你一位。委員好。時間先不要計算,等賈董來。"},{"start":30.641,"end":46.003,"text":"對,第一次沒有,第二次有,剛剛沒有經理現在有我先就交給賈董,賈董你在臉書上說那個時間一般的網友其實沒有批評但是期待不夠滿足,就時間有人認為太短那你對外講的是說沒有贊助單位是不是?"},{"start":47.397,"end":76.497,"text":"對,沒有任何的贊助的企業因為國慶煙火是一個很重要的事情現場有很多公股銀行的董事長在這邊你希望哪一位贊助你可以點名一下本席可以協助你所有的人都可以贊助,謝謝然後我們明年就會有開放企業贊助所以請大家多多贊助我們這個部長,你要不要先承諾一下2014年你在關照的不是嗎?兆豐金應該是最大的股份嘛,對不對?董董"},{"start":78.079,"end":82.426,"text":"這應該你自己處理還要找其他公股、銀行一起處理比較好這漏氣餒"},{"start":87.236,"end":104.869,"text":"這麼多金主在這邊怎麼會沒有贊助者呢?我協助你啦,來本席的3303研究室來開個協調會好不好?那賈董你請回啊,明年這件事情我來處理謝謝,委員我可以跟你報告一下嗎?其實我們在整個數字上看來我們10月10號當天我們101的進館人數呢是成長了59%"},{"start":110.954,"end":127.369,"text":"在觀景台的人數方面國人來觀景台的部分是成長了兩倍所以整個信義計畫區是人潮洶湧的我沒有說不好只是因為太好大家希望更好就像95分希望100分一樣到你好我們努力達到100分謝謝甲董請回"},{"start":131.023,"end":157.351,"text":"現在請莊部長部長是謝謝委員部長那個你知道那個銀行法72條之二吼行庫即將滿水位吼那在座的公股銀行董事長巴達行庫這邊我就不一一請上來那個金管會有對外宣布說大概超過這個警戒值27%以上的有15家之多這15家當中我就效於現場坐在這邊為此15家當中有沒有各公股銀行有超過27%以上的有沒有連一家都沒有"},{"start":161.004,"end":171.001,"text":"公股銀行都沒有?有沒有?有的請站起來。哪一家?兆豐?兆豐?還有呢?易營?還有哪一家?張營?還有?"},{"start":175.267,"end":197.676,"text":"合庫、華銀五位董事長請坐總共有五家之多所以這邊我要請部長特別重視一下這五家當中都是您業管的一個範圍大致上的話因為公股銀行因為放貸、清安貸應該有直接的關聯性清安貸從八月底開辦以來新的清安貸開辦以來大概有7.8萬件"},{"start":201.037,"end":218.162,"text":"合併金額將近有6千億之多有些涉及出租的等等不管如何出現一個問題也就是說它在整個清安貸它確實有帶動交易量的效果你看看右邊本席準備的這個表格就清安貸的部分"},{"start":218.942,"end":234.247,"text":"審券交易稅條例第二條之三及第十二條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例第三條之四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例四及第十四條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例五及第十六條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例六及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例七及第十八條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審券交易稅條例八及第十九條條文修正草案審"},{"start":243.59,"end":263.568,"text":"好,我再讓你看另外一個數字有就是說我們個人房地合一稅2.0的部分這部分本席統計起來從2011年的部分2021年的7月開始到現在3年之久到這第一季"},{"start":264.729,"end":285.86,"text":"適用的對象大概有28萬件之多然後有將近6萬件一年換手也就是45%他寧願被扣那還有包括兩年內換手的33.4%差不多三分之一五年內換手的包括有75%也就是說他不怕你高稅額顯然他獲利空間遠遠大過於這個稅率的部分"},{"start":288.781,"end":318.321,"text":"真正超過五年不過是四分之一而已由四分之三當中都是在你增加稅務負擔的情況底下他仍然去進行交易簡單講就是這些投資客沒在怕不怕因此本席先請教你一下如果你透過這個交易稅的增加的情況底下都沒有達到嚇阻作用的情況底下這個房地合一稅的2.0有沒有可能推3.0部長請回答"},{"start":320.442,"end":342.331,"text":"二點零這個部分事實上它已經在稅率上最高在兩年內已經達到百分之四十五對沒有錯對因為它是所得那它所得裡面它扣掉了百分之四十五那已經不算低啦已經不算低對沒有錯然後到兩年以上到五年的時候百分之三十五我覺得這個部分這本席在問您的不是在解釋二點零的內容是請教你三點零的例子"},{"start":344.352,"end":364.968,"text":"其實這個稅率的部分除了稅率之外我們其實也在加強查核這個部分對於申報的情形那也做了相關的我們的國稅局做了相關的數據簡單的講這個2.0的這個政策工具沒有達到預期的目標啦其實短期交易的數量其實有已經2.0比1.0在短期交易的部分已經有抑制到降低了14%"},{"start":366.445,"end":388.094,"text":"沒有,但是就成交的內容來說還是非常的驚人一、基本上不是要比1.0好而已做對話是要遏止他交易的那個熱絡量嘛,不是嗎所以那個本席再請教你一點就是說有關於這個清安貸的部分剛剛有提到說他放款五年剛好他這五年他持有五年之後才開始繳息他這五年"},{"start":390.616,"end":412.035,"text":"五年之內它的利息是非常低然後剛好隔五年之後呢你剛好又適逢這一個兩稅合一的五年的條款經過之後那不是做漲了讓整個有投資的可能性差在持有五年的過程當中有那個優惠的這個這個利息可是五年之後呢又減少了這一個稅率的一個負擔會不會這樣子"},{"start":414.571,"end":441.524,"text":"委員報告雖然新清安貸款有關寬限期延長5年但是我們統計真正用寬限期到5年的只有25%並不是每個人都用而且裡面有51%他根本就沒有用寬限期那在寬限期是3年的是14%換言之這些青年朋友們去買了第一間自住用的房屋他基本上還是想要盡快把本金趕快還掉"},{"start":442.985,"end":467.362,"text":"本席不是質疑所有親安帶的人都是如此本席就是提醒你說呢20%以上21%以上用到五年寬限期的這個部分你要特別注意是不是有搭配投資的組合的可能性好不好所以說這個也就請教您的部分有沒有可能有滾動檢討的空間既然沒有用到五年的部分的話那何必用五年讓他有投機的機會呢不是嗎"},{"start":468.803,"end":492.338,"text":"所以說本席請教你的部分就是兩個政策工具一個2.0會不會變3.0第二個部分清安貸的部分是不是有重新檢討的空間新清安的部分已經檢討第一個就是說對於投資投資的規納的空間還有限貸一次放得太寬啦本席就聽不懂我的意思就放得太寬你要重新檢討啦好不好好再拉回來一點齁我讓親友見到那個副主委今晚副主委時間請暫停"},{"start":498.26,"end":523.729,"text":"是,委員好那個副組長你剛剛在報告的時候不是每一個委員都同意這個當沖降稅本席就抱持了反對的立場當沖降稅的結果其實你現在寫的理由是說維持這個證券市場交易動能減低的這個證券市場不確定性我跟你講當沖降稅反而會增加不確定性這個不是真正的理由真正的理由是什麼真正的理由是食髓滋味"},{"start":525.129,"end":541.781,"text":"此為之為的結果呢就還要再延長甚至想要入法我說實在的我基本立場認為說你如果說要用稅賦工具來作為造勢的東冷的話與其推當沖減半不如啊推TESA比較好"},{"start":542.817,"end":569.514,"text":"這比較長期的作用TISA跟ETF或者跟REITS的部分會比較有中長期造勢的功能這才是好的方式你去看當中的結果從第一次降、第二次降、第三次降外資當中的比例從7.07%變30.70%如果現在在第四次當中降稅的話它會成港到多少你只是優惠到外資而已而外資的部分我上次就提到了它每天賺1億所以累積起來你去看"},{"start":570.254,"end":592.415,"text":"真正當中降稅的大部分的投資人都是韭菜實質真正賺到錢的就是政府就是業者、證券業者還有包括外資如果業者、證券公會的人一直很擔心不能造勢的話一定要這個交易稅減半的情況底下才能造勢的話那業者也可以手續費免費啊"},{"start":594.144,"end":598.916,"text":"不是嗎?你就將它手續的免費也可以造勢啊為什麼一定要用透過稅金的減免啊?"},{"start":600.267,"end":628.968,"text":"副主委請說是那後面先回答TISA這邊呢我們也非常的贊同我們也在力推那目前為止我們跟財政部溝通也非常的一個順暢我們會提出一個相對比較好的方案當沖降稅這個問題是這樣子那我提一個比喻啦就好像一個鹽我們那個那個芭樂撒點鹽會比較甜一些些所以是說我提另外一個比喻啦嘿是就是說他是特效要當成保健品在吃啦嘿"},{"start":630.111,"end":631.813,"text":"市長,您認為當初的部分呢?您同不同意入法?"},{"start":648.629,"end":668.918,"text":"同不同有落日條款我想證券市場的一個變動應該是順其萬變應該要看時間、看情形要中長期的思考吧滾動的檢討、滾動的檢討條款所以說不應該入法嘛你暫情是或是嘛所以說我希望下次是一個日落條款啦日出的部分應該是在用TESA才對啦好不好"},{"start":669.618,"end":680.924,"text":"提灑部分我們跟機關委託一致對對對但我們租稅工具要用在對的地方好不好租稅工具要用在對的地方啦是的沒錯沒錯我們接下來請副市長副市長最後一件個案跟你說一下齁"},{"start":682.314,"end":703.909,"text":"最近有一個這個0087不是啊不是87是00887爆點你去啊10月8號跟10月9號依照大盤的50指數的部分呢它基本上在10月8號的時候誤差值才0.01啊就到10月隔天而已它的整個偏離度變27.84你不覺得太誇張了嗎"},{"start":708.527,"end":725.32,"text":"其實在這個地方的話其實從以前到現在第一次遇到那這也是我想這是完美的小風暴為什麼說小風暴好險它的總值淨值只有18億那單位是1.9億那原因主要就是說其實也是中國那邊大量的激勵股市"},{"start":726.48,"end":753.689,"text":"後來整個股票往上漲不過因為10月1號到10月7號之間因為他們這個十一長假所以沒有一個交易量我們這邊持續的一個交易所以在這個地方就一直上漲投資人的一個追買所以造成了這種情形你確定如此這是初步調查的結果嗎?沒有人為炒作的方式或不法的行為嗎?所以在這部分的話"},{"start":756.519,"end":782.164,"text":"所以現在我們已經請永豐投信提出說明而且會有監視的一個機制他也承諾會再怎樣盡速的銷你這個溢價拉到百分之三以內而且我們已經專案查核專案查核什麼時候報告會提出來這伊提豐好不容易有一個比較讓國人有信心的投資工具你不能透過這個案件來打擊投資人的信心好不好來 多久"},{"start":783.328,"end":801.7,"text":"是貴買在徹查還是證交所在徹查?貴買徹查到底何時出來?這很像三十幾年前封閉型基金的一個炒作的狀況喔你要小心喔未必是市場的狀況而是整個人為的因素喔"},{"start":803.049,"end":828.805,"text":"董事長向委員報告我們已經請永豐把投信把他的這個相關我們要的資料呢給我們在三天內給我們然後我們預計在大概一個禮拜到兩個禮拜之間把這報告做好兩個禮拜之內看你的報告謝謝部長、謝謝副主委、謝謝主席謝謝委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[20],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-20-2","title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:04:12 - 10:18:11","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查「證券交易稅條例」7案：\n(一)\t行政院函請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員羅明才等20人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員賴惠員等37人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(六)\t本院委員林楚茵等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(七)\t本院委員邱志偉等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155516,"gazette":{"lineno":321,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（10時4分）主席，有請財政部莊部長跟101賈董事長。"],["主席：好，請莊部長跟賈董事長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：先就教於賈董，賈董在臉書上說那個時間一般網友其實沒有批評，但是期待不夠滿足，就是時間有人認為太短。你對外講的是沒有贊助單位，是不是？"],["賈董事長永婕：對，沒有任何的贊助企業。"],["郭委員國文：因為國慶煙火是一件很重要的事情……"],["賈董事長永婕：是。"],["郭委員國文：現場有很多公股銀行的董事長在這邊，你希望哪一位贊助，你可以點名一下，本席可以協助你。"],["賈董事長永婕：所有的人都可以贊助，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：好，所有人……"],["賈董事長永婕：我們明年就會開放企業贊助，所以請大家多多贊助我們。"],["郭委員國文：部長，你要不要先承諾一下，101是你在關照的，不是嗎？兆豐金應該有最大的股份，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：這應該你自己處理，還是要找其他公股銀行一起處理比較好？「漏氣」耶，這麼多金主在這邊，怎麼會沒有贊助者呢？我協助你，來本席3303研究室開個協調會好不好？好，賈董你請回，明年這個事情我來處理。"],["賈董事長永婕：謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：不客氣。"],["賈董事長永婕：委員，我可以跟你報告一下嗎？其實在數字上看來，10月10號當天，101的進館人數成長了59%，國人來觀景臺的人數成長了兩倍，所以整個信義計畫區是人潮洶湧的。"],["郭委員國文：我沒有說不好，只是因為太好，大家希望更好。"],["賈董事長永婕：謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：就像95分，大家會希望100分是一樣的道理。"],["賈董事長永婕：好，我們努力達到100分，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：好，賈董請回。現在請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：部長，你知道銀行法第七十二條之二，行庫即將滿水位，在座八大行庫的公股銀行董事長我就不一一請上來。金管會對外宣布，超過警戒值27%以上的大概有15家之多，這15家當中，我就教於現場坐在這邊的，15家當中有沒有各公股銀行有超過27%以上的，有沒有？連一家都沒有？公股銀行都沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為每一家有不一樣的情況……"],["郭委員國文：有沒有？有的請站起來，哪一家？兆豐。還有呢？一銀。還有哪一家？彰銀還有合庫、華銀。好，5位董事長請坐。總共有5家之多，所以我要請部長特別重視一下，這5家都是您業管的範圍，大致上公股銀行應該與放貸青安貸有直接的關聯，新的青安貸從8月底開辦以來，大概有7.8萬件，核貸金額將近有6,000億之多，有些涉及出租等等，不管如何，出現一個問題，也就是青安貸確實有帶動交易量的效果，你看看右邊本席準備的表格，青安貸寬限期3年，最高30年，額度800萬，後來全部都放寬到5年；至於家數，從24.5萬變26.6萬，然後28.8萬變35.5萬，也就是新青安貸所帶動的成交量比舊青安貸增加很多，這種情況也推高了房市的成長。","好，我另外再讓你看一個數字，在個人房地合一稅2.0，本席統計起來，從2021年的7月開始到現在第一季，3年之久，適用的對象大概有28萬件之多，有將近6萬件在1年內換手，也就是45%，他們寧願被扣；還有兩年內換手的33.4%，差不多三分之一；5年內換手的有75%，也就是說他們不怕高稅額，顯然他們的獲利空間遠遠大過於這個稅率，真正超過5年的不過是四分之一而已，也就是四分之三都是在你們增加稅負負擔的情況下仍進行交易。簡單來說，這些投資客沒在怕啦！因此，本席先請教你一下，如果你們透過交易稅增加的情況都沒有達到嚇阻作用，這個房地合一稅2.0有沒有可能推3.0？部長請回答。"],["莊部長翠雲：事實上2.0在稅率上是最高，在兩年內已經達到45%算高……"],["郭委員國文：對，沒有錯。"],["莊部長翠雲：因為他的所得……他的所得裡面扣掉了45%，已經不算低……"],["郭委員國文：對，沒有錯。"],["莊部長翠雲：然後2年以上到5年有35%，我覺得這個部分……"],["郭委員國文：本席在問你的，不是在解釋2.0的內容，是請教你3.0的立場……"],["莊部長翠雲：這個是稅率的部分，除了稅率之外，我們其實也在加強查核，對於申報的情形，國稅局也做了相關的數據……"],["郭委員國文：簡單的講，這個2.0的政策工具沒有達到預期的目標，本席要你們去檢討、思考的是這個問題啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：其實短期交易的數量，2.0比1.0在短期交易上已經有抑制並降低了14%。"],["郭委員國文：沒有，單就成交內容來說還是非常的驚人，基本上不是要比1.0好而已，最重要是要遏止交易的熱絡量，不是嗎？所以本席再請教你一點，有關於青安貸，剛剛有提到放款5年，剛好他們持有5年之後才開始繳息，這5年繳本息，5年之內的利息非常低，隔了5年之後，剛好又適逢兩稅合一的5年條款，那不是助長了整個投資的可能性？在持有5年的過程當中有優惠的利息，可是5年之後又減少稅率的負擔，會不會這樣子？部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，雖然新青安貸款寬限期延長為5年，但是我們統計，真正用寬限期到5年的只有25%，並不是每個人都用，而且裡面有51%根本就沒有用寬限期，寬限期3年的是14%。換言之，這些青年朋友們去買了第一間自住用的房屋，他們基本上還是想要儘快把本金還掉。"],["郭委員國文：對，本席不是質疑所有青安貸的人都是如此……"],["莊部長翠雲：我是說青安貸……"],["郭委員國文：本席是提醒你，百分之二十幾以上用到5年寬限期這部分要特別注意。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：是不是有搭配投資組合的可能性，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["郭委員國文：這也就是請教您有沒有可能有滾動檢討的空間？既然沒有用到5年的話，那又何必用5年，讓他們有投機的機會呢，不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，那這個部分……"],["郭委員國文：本席請教你的就是兩個政策工具，一個是2.0會不會變3.0？第二個，青安貸是不是有重新檢討的空間？"],["莊部長翠雲：新青安的部分已經檢討，第一個就是對於投資投機歸納的空間，還有限貸一次……"],["郭委員國文：該檢討的就是放得太寬啦！放得太寬了，你聽不懂我的意思，就是放得太寬，你們要重新檢討啦，好不好？","再拉回來一點，我想請教金管副主委。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：針對副主委剛剛的報告，不是每一個委員都同意當沖降稅，本席就抱持著反對的立場，當沖降稅你現在寫的理由是維持證券市場交易動能，減低證券市場不確定性。我跟你講，當沖降稅反而會增加不確定性，這不是真正理由，真正的理由是什麼？真正的理由是食髓知味，食髓知味的結果就是還要再延長，甚至想要入法。說實在的，我基本的立場認為，如果要用稅賦工具來作為造市的功能，與其推當沖減半不如推TISA比較好，這是比較長期的，TISA跟ETF或者跟REITs會比較有中長期造市的功能，這才是好的方式。你去看當沖的結果，從第一次降、第二次降、第三次降，外資當沖的比率從7.07%變30.74%，如果現在再第四次當沖降稅的話，它會成長到多少？你們只是優惠到外資而已，而外資的部分，我上次就提到啦，他們每天賺1億，所以累積起來，你去看喔，真正當沖降稅的大部分投資人都是韭菜，實質真正賺到錢的就是政府，就是業者、證券業者，還包括外資。如果證券業者、證券公會的人一直很擔心不能造市的話，一定要交易稅減半的情況下才能造市的話，那業者也可以手續費免費啊，不是嗎？就叫他們手續費免費也可以造市啊！為什麼一定要透過稅金的減免呢？副主委請說。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，後面的問題先回答，我們也非常的贊同TISA，也在力推，我們目前為止跟財政部的溝通也非常順暢，我們會提出一個相對比較好的方案。","當沖降稅的問題是這樣子，我提一個比喻，就好像芭樂灑點鹽會比較甜一些些，所以說……"],["郭委員國文：我提另外一個比喻……"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是。"],["郭委員國文：它是特效藥當成保健品在吃啦！"],["陳副主任委員彥良：所以3年、3年滾動式的調整，我們也知道這不能把它變成持續性的，就像委員所說，藥不能當保健品吃。"],["郭委員國文：我問一下部長的意思，部長，當沖的部分，你同不同意入法？同不同意有落日條款？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想證券市場的變動應該是瞬息萬變，應該要看時間、看情形。"],["郭委員國文：要中長期的思考。"],["莊部長翠雲：要滾動的檢討、調整。"],["郭委員國文：對啦！所以不應該入法嘛！你就用暫行措施，所以我希望下次是一個日落條款，日出的部分應該用在TISA才對，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：TISA的部分，我們跟金管會再討論。"],["郭委員國文：TISA的部分我們可以再討論，但我們租稅工具要用在對的地方，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的！沒錯！謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：接下來請副主委，副主委，最後一件個案來跟你說一下，最近00887暴跌，10月8號跟10月9號，依照大盤50指數，基本上在10月8號的時候誤差值才0.01啊！結果到10月9號、隔天而已，它整個偏離度變成27.84，你不覺得這太誇張了嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：其實在這個地方的話，從以前到現在是第一次遇到，我想這是完美的小風暴，為什麼說是小風暴？好險它的總值、淨值只有18億，單位是1.9億，原因主要就是中國那邊大量的激勵股市，後來整個股票就往上漲，不過，10月1號到10月7號之間，因為他們有十一長假，沒有一個交易量，但我們這邊持續的交易，所以在這個地方就一直上漲，且投資人追買，進而造成了這種情形，不過我們……"],["郭委員國文：你確定如此？這是初步調查的結果嗎？沒有人為炒作的方式或不法的行為嗎？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：所以現在我們已經請永豐投信提出說明，而且會有監視的一個機制，它也承諾會儘速消弭這個溢價，拉到3%以內……"],["郭委員國文：什麼時候會提出？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：我們已經專案查核。"],["郭委員國文：會專案查核，但什麼時候報告會提出來？這ETF好不容易是一個比較讓國人有信心的投資工具，實在不能透過這個案件來打擊投資人的信心，好不好？所以要多久？是櫃買在徹查，還是證交所在徹查？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：櫃買。"],["郭委員國文：徹查到底，所以何時出來呢？這很像三十幾年前封閉型基金的炒作狀況，你要小心喔！"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，我們一定會注意。"],["郭委員國文：未必是市場的狀況，而是整個人為的因素。請董事長。"],["簡董事長立忠：向委員報告，我們已經請永豐投信把我們要的相關資料在3天內給我們，然後我們預計一個禮拜到兩個禮拜之間把這個報告做好。"],["郭委員國文：好，兩個禮拜之內提出你的報告，謝謝。謝謝部長，謝謝副主委，謝謝主席。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：謝謝委員。"],["主席（郭委員國文代）：接下來我們請賴惠員委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-2","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","王世堅","羅明才","邱志偉","陳培瑜","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":277,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公\n股代表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢；二、審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一)行政院函\n請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員羅明才等20人\n擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交\n易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員邱志偉等19\n人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1138501_00004"}}}