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\"start\": 421.81, \"end\": 421.83, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 421.83, \"end\": 421.95, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 421.95, \"end\": 422.07, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"凱\"}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 422.07, \"end\": 422.19, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 422.19, \"end\": 422.351, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 422.351, \"end\": 422.371, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 449.188, \"end\": 476.924, \"text\": \"因為現在都市跟鄉村的話都市基本上使用率比較高鄉村使用率比較低變成說比較多的外送人員會願意到都市去反而鄉村需要送的時候沒有人這是一個區域上的問題第二個問題是在於說假設基隆跟台北如果最後面計算公式出來基隆比較低台北比較高結果是外送人員全部都跑到台北去基隆反而外送人員少會不會造成這種所謂的unbalance所謂的不平衡\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 449.188, \"end\": 449.728, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 449.728, \"end\": 449.929, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 449.929, \"end\": 450.129, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"市\", 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542.037, \"end\": 542.217, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 542.217, \"end\": 542.357, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"坐\", \"start\": 542.357, \"end\": 542.477, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 542.477, \"end\": 542.497, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 542.497, \"end\": 542.517, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 542.517, \"end\": 542.617, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"緩\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 542.617, \"end\": 542.677, \"score\": 0.614}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 542.677, \"end\": 542.697, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"緩\"}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"遠\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 545.458, \"end\": 545.478, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 545.478, \"end\": 545.538, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 545.538, \"end\": 545.558, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 545.558, \"end\": 545.578, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 545.578, \"end\": 545.618, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 545.618, \"end\": 545.698, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 545.698, \"end\": 545.738, \"score\": 0.487}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 545.738, \"end\": 545.778, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 545.778, \"end\": 545.798, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,841 --> 00:00:11,987\n謝謝主席有請部長還有航港局的還有航港局的局長跟民航局的局長\n\n2\n00:00:24,035 --> 00:00:33,746\n部長,針對最近中國大陸的軍演,把整個台灣的航道全部封鎖,不管是空運還是海運,他們現在所有的航道全部封鎖。\n\n3\n00:00:44,757 --> 00:00:45,138\n包括委員\n\n4\n00:01:01,975 --> 00:01:17,033\n這一次他們的軍演他們是有這樣的計畫跟說法但實際上對於我們實際的民航的航班跟我們的船舶的運輸完全沒有受到任何的影響所以那天我也特別發了一個新聞稿跟社會大眾說目前是沒有受到任何的影響\n\n5\n00:01:17,694 --> 00:01:35,074\n那他們在演習的過程當中如果民航會受到影響他們也會事先先告知那這一次他也確實是沒有特別告知這件事情那我們跟這個配合國安單位以及這個海巡單位我們在海岸上面看到的其實也真的對我們的這個航運是沒有任何的影響\n\n6\n00:01:35,735 --> 00:01:38,876\n所以說這次演習之前其實兩邊其實某個程度有一定程度的默契不要影響到民生不要影響到貨運的進出對吧\n\n7\n00:02:03,742 --> 00:02:18,932\n這個有沒有默契我不曉得但是以結論來看以結論來看確實是沒有影響到他們的演習的過程對我們的所有的航班都正常的起降那我們所有的航道上面的船舶也都正常的進出這個部分是沒有問題不過在這中間演習的時候現在房間都在傳有關有一個LNG船\n\n8\n00:02:25,757 --> 00:02:29,739\nLNG船的部分我之前看到媒體在報導這件事情但實際上有嗎?\n\n9\n00:02:46,573 --> 00:03:09,081\n因為後來終於有一個討論出來講說這個LNG船提早到了那我的我要問的最主要目的是因為說假設真的有任何的疏失那不要想疏失有任何的意外LNG船來到我們的港口現在目前只有台中港那目前可是其他港口的話如果這個LNG來的目的是為了電力的供給\n\n10\n00:03:10,615 --> 00:03:16,471\n這對我們國安市有相當大的問題所以我想請教部長您對這件事情的看法如何?\n\n11\n00:03:17,083 --> 00:03:44,195\n這件事情我們後來查證或許是沒有這件事應該是媒體有媒體的報導但媒體的報導他並不具真實性所以實際上並沒有這件事情那當然如果是真的影響到這個東西當然對於台灣的能源是會受到非常大的影響那目前這次的演習我們看起來我剛也跟委員報告過我們所有的這個船舶的航班都沒有問題進出也都順利所以這個訊息或許是媒體的誤報是\n\n12\n00:03:46,196 --> 00:04:01,650\n跟委員再補充報告一下一般LNG船的話大概10天或7天他會來台中港那他進台中港的時候他會看那個海象那這一次的話我們是這個演習的區域沒有收到\n\n13\n00:04:02,210 --> 00:04:28,564\n因為他那個那個坐標一般如果有的話他會很清楚航港局他會跟我們講我們會跟相關的所有航商請他們繞道為什麼我特地注重這個事情因為不管是海港也好空港也好等於是一個國家的肝臟要是出事情就是大事沒事就是好事出事就是大事所以我特地把這個航道這件事情拿出來這邊做討論希望未來部長\n\n14\n00:04:30,305 --> 00:04:46,855\n很尷尬上次我也問過李孟彥部長這個問題不過我特地每次都會如果有這方面的事情我都會特地關注航道的問題因為這是我們國家最重要的事情不管經濟也好各方面也好好再來一個議題就是說我最近看到也是看到媒體上面講說我們好像針對這個運輸業管理規則跟客貨運價準則也要做修正是嗎\n\n15\n00:04:53,605 --> 00:05:22,114\n委員您所提的應該是針對這個外送平台我們有做這方面的我先把這個定調其實我對這個事是肯定的這個不是壞事這是好事但是尷尬的是說這樣講你確認一個你去設定一個明確的計算公式然後把這個最低的薪資把這外送員最低薪資把它扣下來把它確定住這不是壞事外送員有很多很多有很多很多的困難\n\n16\n00:05:22,634 --> 00:05:49,230\n有遇到很多很多的問題需要公部門去幫他們解決那這是第一步這絕對是好事但是我也必須從這個比較務實的角度來看羊貓出在羊身上我們把這個計算公式出去之後把這個業者成本提高通常就會轉嫁在消費者身上我必須把這句話講清楚像是說目前來講我們知道平台他們有對於這個對於消費者收所謂的服務費\n\n17\n00:05:50,151 --> 00:06:04,336\n但是我為什麼聽到所謂的樓層費這玩意有聽到樓層費報告委員報告委員目前的修訂是這個樣子交通部其實不會管到外送員他們的薪資的部分\n\n18\n00:06:05,296 --> 00:06:23,114\n交通部能夠管的是運費的部分那我們運費的處理是這樣子我們運費的處理是叫做透明化啦我們在處理的過程其實叫透明化讓消費者也好或者是外送員也好或者是平台也好大家把運費能夠透明讓大家知道知道透明的運費是多少再來針對樓層費\n\n19\n00:06:25,256 --> 00:06:25,416\n林沛祥\n\n20\n00:06:40,848 --> 00:07:01,029\n消費者然後外送的這個外送員以及公司然後地方政府當然也加我們的公路局然後我們五方共同來討論來協定所以各方會有平衡的意見在裡面那再來我們訂的這個價格是上限其實你講到這一點如果說因為我比較擔心所謂我第一個話\n\n21\n00:07:01,590 --> 00:07:02,371\n邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告\n\n22\n00:07:29,188 --> 00:07:56,924\n因為現在都市跟鄉村的話都市基本上使用率比較高鄉村使用率比較低變成說比較多的外送人員會願意到都市去反而鄉村需要送的時候沒有人這是一個區域上的問題第二個問題是在於說假設基隆跟台北如果最後面計算公式出來基隆比較低台北比較高結果是外送人員全部都跑到台北去基隆反而外送人員少會不會造成這種所謂的unbalance所謂的不平衡\n\n23\n00:07:57,364 --> 00:08:21,233\n這點我是希望說要交通部要注意這一點報告委員這個部分其實定價的部分到時候是各縣市自己定我剛才在講的五方平台包含消費者包含外送員包含這個外送公司平台包含縣市政府包含公路局然後每個縣市由每個縣市的狀況自己下去定那這個部分其實也有它商業機制存在其實我會覺得我會建議部長說針對這個案子這是個好的修法\n\n24\n00:08:21,673 --> 00:08:21,913\n李卓人議員\n\n25\n00:08:38,528 --> 00:09:02,697\n委員這個建議很好我也覺得這件事要大家好好討論現在是預告期啦緩一下啦因為這個是很重要的法聽起來很小可是因為我們現在是雙薪家庭多會話事情越來越多而且老實講現在大家都省成本的時候這個法人越來越省越來越大越來越方便但是如果說保障他們的話那這個案子就應該所有相關人士全部進來大家來坐下來討論然後緩一點事緩則遠\n\n26\n00:09:05,458 --> 00:09:05,798\n那我期待下一步的發展,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4841\t11987\t謝謝主席有請部長還有航港局的還有航港局的局長跟民航局的局長\n24035\t33746\t部長,針對最近中國大陸的軍演,把整個台灣的航道全部封鎖,不管是空運還是海運,他們現在所有的航道全部封鎖。\n44757\t45138\t包括委員\n61975\t77033\t這一次他們的軍演他們是有這樣的計畫跟說法但實際上對於我們實際的民航的航班跟我們的船舶的運輸完全沒有受到任何的影響所以那天我也特別發了一個新聞稿跟社會大眾說目前是沒有受到任何的影響\n77694\t95074\t那他們在演習的過程當中如果民航會受到影響他們也會事先先告知那這一次他也確實是沒有特別告知這件事情那我們跟這個配合國安單位以及這個海巡單位我們在海岸上面看到的其實也真的對我們的這個航運是沒有任何的影響\n95735\t98876\t所以說這次演習之前其實兩邊其實某個程度有一定程度的默契不要影響到民生不要影響到貨運的進出對吧\n123742\t138932\t這個有沒有默契我不曉得但是以結論來看以結論來看確實是沒有影響到他們的演習的過程對我們的所有的航班都正常的起降那我們所有的航道上面的船舶也都正常的進出這個部分是沒有問題不過在這中間演習的時候現在房間都在傳有關有一個LNG船\n145757\t149739\tLNG船的部分我之前看到媒體在報導這件事情但實際上有嗎?\n166573\t189081\t因為後來終於有一個討論出來講說這個LNG船提早到了那我的我要問的最主要目的是因為說假設真的有任何的疏失那不要想疏失有任何的意外LNG船來到我們的港口現在目前只有台中港那目前可是其他港口的話如果這個LNG來的目的是為了電力的供給\n190615\t196471\t這對我們國安市有相當大的問題所以我想請教部長您對這件事情的看法如何?\n197083\t224195\t這件事情我們後來查證或許是沒有這件事應該是媒體有媒體的報導但媒體的報導他並不具真實性所以實際上並沒有這件事情那當然如果是真的影響到這個東西當然對於台灣的能源是會受到非常大的影響那目前這次的演習我們看起來我剛也跟委員報告過我們所有的這個船舶的航班都沒有問題進出也都順利所以這個訊息或許是媒體的誤報是\n226196\t241650\t跟委員再補充報告一下一般LNG船的話大概10天或7天他會來台中港那他進台中港的時候他會看那個海象那這一次的話我們是這個演習的區域沒有收到\n242210\t268564\t因為他那個那個坐標一般如果有的話他會很清楚航港局他會跟我們講我們會跟相關的所有航商請他們繞道為什麼我特地注重這個事情因為不管是海港也好空港也好等於是一個國家的肝臟要是出事情就是大事沒事就是好事出事就是大事所以我特地把這個航道這件事情拿出來這邊做討論希望未來部長\n270305\t286855\t很尷尬上次我也問過李孟彥部長這個問題不過我特地每次都會如果有這方面的事情我都會特地關注航道的問題因為這是我們國家最重要的事情不管經濟也好各方面也好好再來一個議題就是說我最近看到也是看到媒體上面講說我們好像針對這個運輸業管理規則跟客貨運價準則也要做修正是嗎\n293605\t322114\t委員您所提的應該是針對這個外送平台我們有做這方面的我先把這個定調其實我對這個事是肯定的這個不是壞事這是好事但是尷尬的是說這樣講你確認一個你去設定一個明確的計算公式然後把這個最低的薪資把這外送員最低薪資把它扣下來把它確定住這不是壞事外送員有很多很多有很多很多的困難\n322634\t349230\t有遇到很多很多的問題需要公部門去幫他們解決那這是第一步這絕對是好事但是我也必須從這個比較務實的角度來看羊貓出在羊身上我們把這個計算公式出去之後把這個業者成本提高通常就會轉嫁在消費者身上我必須把這句話講清楚像是說目前來講我們知道平台他們有對於這個對於消費者收所謂的服務費\n350151\t364336\t但是我為什麼聽到所謂的樓層費這玩意有聽到樓層費報告委員報告委員目前的修訂是這個樣子交通部其實不會管到外送員他們的薪資的部分\n365296\t383114\t交通部能夠管的是運費的部分那我們運費的處理是這樣子我們運費的處理是叫做透明化啦我們在處理的過程其實叫透明化讓消費者也好或者是外送員也好或者是平台也好大家把運費能夠透明讓大家知道知道透明的運費是多少再來針對樓層費\n385256\t385416\t林沛祥\n400848\t421029\t消費者然後外送的這個外送員以及公司然後地方政府當然也加我們的公路局然後我們五方共同來討論來協定所以各方會有平衡的意見在裡面那再來我們訂的這個價格是上限其實你講到這一點如果說因為我比較擔心所謂我第一個話\n421590\t422371\t邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告\n449188\t476924\t因為現在都市跟鄉村的話都市基本上使用率比較高鄉村使用率比較低變成說比較多的外送人員會願意到都市去反而鄉村需要送的時候沒有人這是一個區域上的問題第二個問題是在於說假設基隆跟台北如果最後面計算公式出來基隆比較低台北比較高結果是外送人員全部都跑到台北去基隆反而外送人員少會不會造成這種所謂的unbalance所謂的不平衡\n477364\t501233\t這點我是希望說要交通部要注意這一點報告委員這個部分其實定價的部分到時候是各縣市自己定我剛才在講的五方平台包含消費者包含外送員包含這個外送公司平台包含縣市政府包含公路局然後每個縣市由每個縣市的狀況自己下去定那這個部分其實也有它商業機制存在其實我會覺得我會建議部長說針對這個案子這是個好的修法\n501673\t501913\t李卓人議員\n518528\t542697\t委員這個建議很好我也覺得這件事要大家好好討論現在是預告期啦緩一下啦因為這個是很重要的法聽起來很小可是因為我們現在是雙薪家庭多會話事情越來越多而且老實講現在大家都省成本的時候這個法人越來越省越來越大越來越方便但是如果說保障他們的話那這個案子就應該所有相關人士全部進來大家來坐下來討論然後緩一點事緩則遠\n545458\t545798\t那我期待下一步的發展,謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請部長還有航港局的還有航港局的局長跟民航局的局長\n部長,針對最近中國大陸的軍演,把整個台灣的航道全部封鎖,不管是空運還是海運,他們現在所有的航道全部封鎖。\n包括委員\n這一次他們的軍演他們是有這樣的計畫跟說法但實際上對於我們實際的民航的航班跟我們的船舶的運輸完全沒有受到任何的影響所以那天我也特別發了一個新聞稿跟社會大眾說目前是沒有受到任何的影響\n那他們在演習的過程當中如果民航會受到影響他們也會事先先告知那這一次他也確實是沒有特別告知這件事情那我們跟這個配合國安單位以及這個海巡單位我們在海岸上面看到的其實也真的對我們的這個航運是沒有任何的影響\n所以說這次演習之前其實兩邊其實某個程度有一定程度的默契不要影響到民生不要影響到貨運的進出對吧\n這個有沒有默契我不曉得但是以結論來看以結論來看確實是沒有影響到他們的演習的過程對我們的所有的航班都正常的起降那我們所有的航道上面的船舶也都正常的進出這個部分是沒有問題不過在這中間演習的時候現在房間都在傳有關有一個LNG船\nLNG船的部分我之前看到媒體在報導這件事情但實際上有嗎?\n因為後來終於有一個討論出來講說這個LNG船提早到了那我的我要問的最主要目的是因為說假設真的有任何的疏失那不要想疏失有任何的意外LNG船來到我們的港口現在目前只有台中港那目前可是其他港口的話如果這個LNG來的目的是為了電力的供給\n這對我們國安市有相當大的問題所以我想請教部長您對這件事情的看法如何?\n這件事情我們後來查證或許是沒有這件事應該是媒體有媒體的報導但媒體的報導他並不具真實性所以實際上並沒有這件事情那當然如果是真的影響到這個東西當然對於台灣的能源是會受到非常大的影響那目前這次的演習我們看起來我剛也跟委員報告過我們所有的這個船舶的航班都沒有問題進出也都順利所以這個訊息或許是媒體的誤報是\n跟委員再補充報告一下一般LNG船的話大概10天或7天他會來台中港那他進台中港的時候他會看那個海象那這一次的話我們是這個演習的區域沒有收到\n因為他那個那個坐標一般如果有的話他會很清楚航港局他會跟我們講我們會跟相關的所有航商請他們繞道為什麼我特地注重這個事情因為不管是海港也好空港也好等於是一個國家的肝臟要是出事情就是大事沒事就是好事出事就是大事所以我特地把這個航道這件事情拿出來這邊做討論希望未來部長\n很尷尬上次我也問過李孟彥部長這個問題不過我特地每次都會如果有這方面的事情我都會特地關注航道的問題因為這是我們國家最重要的事情不管經濟也好各方面也好好再來一個議題就是說我最近看到也是看到媒體上面講說我們好像針對這個運輸業管理規則跟客貨運價準則也要做修正是嗎\n委員您所提的應該是針對這個外送平台我們有做這方面的我先把這個定調其實我對這個事是肯定的這個不是壞事這是好事但是尷尬的是說這樣講你確認一個你去設定一個明確的計算公式然後把這個最低的薪資把這外送員最低薪資把它扣下來把它確定住這不是壞事外送員有很多很多有很多很多的困難\n有遇到很多很多的問題需要公部門去幫他們解決那這是第一步這絕對是好事但是我也必須從這個比較務實的角度來看羊貓出在羊身上我們把這個計算公式出去之後把這個業者成本提高通常就會轉嫁在消費者身上我必須把這句話講清楚像是說目前來講我們知道平台他們有對於這個對於消費者收所謂的服務費\n但是我為什麼聽到所謂的樓層費這玩意有聽到樓層費報告委員報告委員目前的修訂是這個樣子交通部其實不會管到外送員他們的薪資的部分\n交通部能夠管的是運費的部分那我們運費的處理是這樣子我們運費的處理是叫做透明化啦我們在處理的過程其實叫透明化讓消費者也好或者是外送員也好或者是平台也好大家把運費能夠透明讓大家知道知道透明的運費是多少再來針對樓層費\n林沛祥\n消費者然後外送的這個外送員以及公司然後地方政府當然也加我們的公路局然後我們五方共同來討論來協定所以各方會有平衡的意見在裡面那再來我們訂的這個價格是上限其實你講到這一點如果說因為我比較擔心所謂我第一個話\n邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告\n因為現在都市跟鄉村的話都市基本上使用率比較高鄉村使用率比較低變成說比較多的外送人員會願意到都市去反而鄉村需要送的時候沒有人這是一個區域上的問題第二個問題是在於說假設基隆跟台北如果最後面計算公式出來基隆比較低台北比較高結果是外送人員全部都跑到台北去基隆反而外送人員少會不會造成這種所謂的unbalance所謂的不平衡\n這點我是希望說要交通部要注意這一點報告委員這個部分其實定價的部分到時候是各縣市自己定我剛才在講的五方平台包含消費者包含外送員包含這個外送公司平台包含縣市政府包含公路局然後每個縣市由每個縣市的狀況自己下去定那這個部分其實也有它商業機制存在其實我會覺得我會建議部長說針對這個案子這是個好的修法\n李卓人議員\n委員這個建議很好我也覺得這件事要大家好好討論現在是預告期啦緩一下啦因為這個是很重要的法聽起來很小可是因為我們現在是雙薪家庭多會話事情越來越多而且老實講現在大家都省成本的時候這個法人越來越省越來越大越來越方便但是如果說保障他們的話那這個案子就應該所有相關人士全部進來大家來坐下來討論然後緩一點事緩則遠\n那我期待下一步的發展,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.841 --> 00:11.987\n謝謝主席有請部長還有航港局的還有航港局的局長跟民航局的局長\n\n00:24.035 --> 00:33.746\n部長,針對最近中國大陸的軍演,把整個台灣的航道全部封鎖,不管是空運還是海運,他們現在所有的航道全部封鎖。\n\n00:44.757 --> 00:45.138\n包括委員\n\n01:01.975 --> 01:17.033\n這一次他們的軍演他們是有這樣的計畫跟說法但實際上對於我們實際的民航的航班跟我們的船舶的運輸完全沒有受到任何的影響所以那天我也特別發了一個新聞稿跟社會大眾說目前是沒有受到任何的影響\n\n01:17.694 --> 01:35.074\n那他們在演習的過程當中如果民航會受到影響他們也會事先先告知那這一次他也確實是沒有特別告知這件事情那我們跟這個配合國安單位以及這個海巡單位我們在海岸上面看到的其實也真的對我們的這個航運是沒有任何的影響\n\n01:35.735 --> 01:38.876\n所以說這次演習之前其實兩邊其實某個程度有一定程度的默契不要影響到民生不要影響到貨運的進出對吧\n\n02:03.742 --> 02:18.932\n這個有沒有默契我不曉得但是以結論來看以結論來看確實是沒有影響到他們的演習的過程對我們的所有的航班都正常的起降那我們所有的航道上面的船舶也都正常的進出這個部分是沒有問題不過在這中間演習的時候現在房間都在傳有關有一個LNG船\n\n02:25.757 --> 02:29.739\nLNG船的部分我之前看到媒體在報導這件事情但實際上有嗎?\n\n02:46.573 --> 03:09.081\n因為後來終於有一個討論出來講說這個LNG船提早到了那我的我要問的最主要目的是因為說假設真的有任何的疏失那不要想疏失有任何的意外LNG船來到我們的港口現在目前只有台中港那目前可是其他港口的話如果這個LNG來的目的是為了電力的供給\n\n03:10.615 --> 03:16.471\n這對我們國安市有相當大的問題所以我想請教部長您對這件事情的看法如何?\n\n03:17.083 --> 03:44.195\n這件事情我們後來查證或許是沒有這件事應該是媒體有媒體的報導但媒體的報導他並不具真實性所以實際上並沒有這件事情那當然如果是真的影響到這個東西當然對於台灣的能源是會受到非常大的影響那目前這次的演習我們看起來我剛也跟委員報告過我們所有的這個船舶的航班都沒有問題進出也都順利所以這個訊息或許是媒體的誤報是\n\n03:46.196 --> 04:01.650\n跟委員再補充報告一下一般LNG船的話大概10天或7天他會來台中港那他進台中港的時候他會看那個海象那這一次的話我們是這個演習的區域沒有收到\n\n04:02.210 --> 04:28.564\n因為他那個那個坐標一般如果有的話他會很清楚航港局他會跟我們講我們會跟相關的所有航商請他們繞道為什麼我特地注重這個事情因為不管是海港也好空港也好等於是一個國家的肝臟要是出事情就是大事沒事就是好事出事就是大事所以我特地把這個航道這件事情拿出來這邊做討論希望未來部長\n\n04:30.305 --> 04:46.855\n很尷尬上次我也問過李孟彥部長這個問題不過我特地每次都會如果有這方面的事情我都會特地關注航道的問題因為這是我們國家最重要的事情不管經濟也好各方面也好好再來一個議題就是說我最近看到也是看到媒體上面講說我們好像針對這個運輸業管理規則跟客貨運價準則也要做修正是嗎\n\n04:53.605 --> 05:22.114\n委員您所提的應該是針對這個外送平台我們有做這方面的我先把這個定調其實我對這個事是肯定的這個不是壞事這是好事但是尷尬的是說這樣講你確認一個你去設定一個明確的計算公式然後把這個最低的薪資把這外送員最低薪資把它扣下來把它確定住這不是壞事外送員有很多很多有很多很多的困難\n\n05:22.634 --> 05:49.230\n有遇到很多很多的問題需要公部門去幫他們解決那這是第一步這絕對是好事但是我也必須從這個比較務實的角度來看羊貓出在羊身上我們把這個計算公式出去之後把這個業者成本提高通常就會轉嫁在消費者身上我必須把這句話講清楚像是說目前來講我們知道平台他們有對於這個對於消費者收所謂的服務費\n\n05:50.151 --> 06:04.336\n但是我為什麼聽到所謂的樓層費這玩意有聽到樓層費報告委員報告委員目前的修訂是這個樣子交通部其實不會管到外送員他們的薪資的部分\n\n06:05.296 --> 06:23.114\n交通部能夠管的是運費的部分那我們運費的處理是這樣子我們運費的處理是叫做透明化啦我們在處理的過程其實叫透明化讓消費者也好或者是外送員也好或者是平台也好大家把運費能夠透明讓大家知道知道透明的運費是多少再來針對樓層費\n\n06:25.256 --> 06:25.416\n林沛祥\n\n06:40.848 --> 07:01.029\n消費者然後外送的這個外送員以及公司然後地方政府當然也加我們的公路局然後我們五方共同來討論來協定所以各方會有平衡的意見在裡面那再來我們訂的這個價格是上限其實你講到這一點如果說因為我比較擔心所謂我第一個話\n\n07:01.590 --> 07:02.371\n邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告\n\n07:29.188 --> 07:56.924\n因為現在都市跟鄉村的話都市基本上使用率比較高鄉村使用率比較低變成說比較多的外送人員會願意到都市去反而鄉村需要送的時候沒有人這是一個區域上的問題第二個問題是在於說假設基隆跟台北如果最後面計算公式出來基隆比較低台北比較高結果是外送人員全部都跑到台北去基隆反而外送人員少會不會造成這種所謂的unbalance所謂的不平衡\n\n07:57.364 --> 08:21.233\n這點我是希望說要交通部要注意這一點報告委員這個部分其實定價的部分到時候是各縣市自己定我剛才在講的五方平台包含消費者包含外送員包含這個外送公司平台包含縣市政府包含公路局然後每個縣市由每個縣市的狀況自己下去定那這個部分其實也有它商業機制存在其實我會覺得我會建議部長說針對這個案子這是個好的修法\n\n08:21.673 --> 08:21.913\n李卓人議員\n\n08:38.528 --> 09:02.697\n委員這個建議很好我也覺得這件事要大家好好討論現在是預告期啦緩一下啦因為這個是很重要的法聽起來很小可是因為我們現在是雙薪家庭多會話事情越來越多而且老實講現在大家都省成本的時候這個法人越來越省越來越大越來越方便但是如果說保障他們的話那這個案子就應該所有相關人士全部進來大家來坐下來討論然後緩一點事緩則遠\n\n09:05.458 --> 09:05.798\n那我期待下一步的發展,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.841,"end":11.987,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長還有航港局的還有航港局的局長跟民航局的局長"},{"start":24.035,"end":33.746,"text":"部長,針對最近中國大陸的軍演,把整個台灣的航道全部封鎖,不管是空運還是海運,他們現在所有的航道全部封鎖。"},{"start":44.757,"end":45.138,"text":"包括委員"},{"start":61.975,"end":77.033,"text":"這一次他們的軍演他們是有這樣的計畫跟說法但實際上對於我們實際的民航的航班跟我們的船舶的運輸完全沒有受到任何的影響所以那天我也特別發了一個新聞稿跟社會大眾說目前是沒有受到任何的影響"},{"start":77.694,"end":95.074,"text":"那他們在演習的過程當中如果民航會受到影響他們也會事先先告知那這一次他也確實是沒有特別告知這件事情那我們跟這個配合國安單位以及這個海巡單位我們在海岸上面看到的其實也真的對我們的這個航運是沒有任何的影響"},{"start":95.735,"end":98.876,"text":"所以說這次演習之前其實兩邊其實某個程度有一定程度的默契不要影響到民生不要影響到貨運的進出對吧"},{"start":123.742,"end":138.932,"text":"這個有沒有默契我不曉得但是以結論來看以結論來看確實是沒有影響到他們的演習的過程對我們的所有的航班都正常的起降那我們所有的航道上面的船舶也都正常的進出這個部分是沒有問題不過在這中間演習的時候現在房間都在傳有關有一個LNG船"},{"start":145.757,"end":149.739,"text":"LNG船的部分我之前看到媒體在報導這件事情但實際上有嗎?"},{"start":166.573,"end":189.081,"text":"因為後來終於有一個討論出來講說這個LNG船提早到了那我的我要問的最主要目的是因為說假設真的有任何的疏失那不要想疏失有任何的意外LNG船來到我們的港口現在目前只有台中港那目前可是其他港口的話如果這個LNG來的目的是為了電力的供給"},{"start":190.615,"end":196.471,"text":"這對我們國安市有相當大的問題所以我想請教部長您對這件事情的看法如何?"},{"start":197.083,"end":224.195,"text":"這件事情我們後來查證或許是沒有這件事應該是媒體有媒體的報導但媒體的報導他並不具真實性所以實際上並沒有這件事情那當然如果是真的影響到這個東西當然對於台灣的能源是會受到非常大的影響那目前這次的演習我們看起來我剛也跟委員報告過我們所有的這個船舶的航班都沒有問題進出也都順利所以這個訊息或許是媒體的誤報是"},{"start":226.196,"end":241.65,"text":"跟委員再補充報告一下一般LNG船的話大概10天或7天他會來台中港那他進台中港的時候他會看那個海象那這一次的話我們是這個演習的區域沒有收到"},{"start":242.21,"end":268.564,"text":"因為他那個那個坐標一般如果有的話他會很清楚航港局他會跟我們講我們會跟相關的所有航商請他們繞道為什麼我特地注重這個事情因為不管是海港也好空港也好等於是一個國家的肝臟要是出事情就是大事沒事就是好事出事就是大事所以我特地把這個航道這件事情拿出來這邊做討論希望未來部長"},{"start":270.305,"end":286.855,"text":"很尷尬上次我也問過李孟彥部長這個問題不過我特地每次都會如果有這方面的事情我都會特地關注航道的問題因為這是我們國家最重要的事情不管經濟也好各方面也好好再來一個議題就是說我最近看到也是看到媒體上面講說我們好像針對這個運輸業管理規則跟客貨運價準則也要做修正是嗎"},{"start":293.605,"end":322.114,"text":"委員您所提的應該是針對這個外送平台我們有做這方面的我先把這個定調其實我對這個事是肯定的這個不是壞事這是好事但是尷尬的是說這樣講你確認一個你去設定一個明確的計算公式然後把這個最低的薪資把這外送員最低薪資把它扣下來把它確定住這不是壞事外送員有很多很多有很多很多的困難"},{"start":322.634,"end":349.23,"text":"有遇到很多很多的問題需要公部門去幫他們解決那這是第一步這絕對是好事但是我也必須從這個比較務實的角度來看羊貓出在羊身上我們把這個計算公式出去之後把這個業者成本提高通常就會轉嫁在消費者身上我必須把這句話講清楚像是說目前來講我們知道平台他們有對於這個對於消費者收所謂的服務費"},{"start":350.151,"end":364.336,"text":"但是我為什麼聽到所謂的樓層費這玩意有聽到樓層費報告委員報告委員目前的修訂是這個樣子交通部其實不會管到外送員他們的薪資的部分"},{"start":365.296,"end":383.114,"text":"交通部能夠管的是運費的部分那我們運費的處理是這樣子我們運費的處理是叫做透明化啦我們在處理的過程其實叫透明化讓消費者也好或者是外送員也好或者是平台也好大家把運費能夠透明讓大家知道知道透明的運費是多少再來針對樓層費"},{"start":385.256,"end":385.416,"text":"林沛祥"},{"start":400.848,"end":421.029,"text":"消費者然後外送的這個外送員以及公司然後地方政府當然也加我們的公路局然後我們五方共同來討論來協定所以各方會有平衡的意見在裡面那再來我們訂的這個價格是上限其實你講到這一點如果說因為我比較擔心所謂我第一個話"},{"start":421.59,"end":422.371,"text":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告"},{"start":449.188,"end":476.924,"text":"因為現在都市跟鄉村的話都市基本上使用率比較高鄉村使用率比較低變成說比較多的外送人員會願意到都市去反而鄉村需要送的時候沒有人這是一個區域上的問題第二個問題是在於說假設基隆跟台北如果最後面計算公式出來基隆比較低台北比較高結果是外送人員全部都跑到台北去基隆反而外送人員少會不會造成這種所謂的unbalance所謂的不平衡"},{"start":477.364,"end":501.233,"text":"這點我是希望說要交通部要注意這一點報告委員這個部分其實定價的部分到時候是各縣市自己定我剛才在講的五方平台包含消費者包含外送員包含這個外送公司平台包含縣市政府包含公路局然後每個縣市由每個縣市的狀況自己下去定那這個部分其實也有它商業機制存在其實我會覺得我會建議部長說針對這個案子這是個好的修法"},{"start":501.673,"end":501.913,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":518.528,"end":542.697,"text":"委員這個建議很好我也覺得這件事要大家好好討論現在是預告期啦緩一下啦因為這個是很重要的法聽起來很小可是因為我們現在是雙薪家庭多會話事情越來越多而且老實講現在大家都省成本的時候這個法人越來越省越來越大越來越方便但是如果說保障他們的話那這個案子就應該所有相關人士全部進來大家來坐下來討論然後緩一點事緩則遠"},{"start":545.458,"end":545.798,"text":"那我期待下一步的發展,謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":6,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-6","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:47:50 - 09:57:17","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155524,"gazette":{"lineno":152,"blocks":[["林委員沛祥：（9時47分）謝謝主席，有請部長及航港局局長、民航局局長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員早。"],["林委員沛祥：部長，針對最近中國大陸的軍演，基本上是把臺灣的航道全面封鎖，不管是air cargo（空運）還是海運，他們現在所有的航道全部封鎖。在這個情況之下，我們的進出口還是需要外送，之前我記得您來拜訪我時，我沒有問到這個議題，現在這件事正式發生了，請問現在交通部有什麼樣的作為？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這一次他們的軍演是有這樣的計畫跟說法，但實際上我們的民航航班跟我們的船舶運輸完全沒有受到任何的影響，所以那天我也特別發了一個新聞稿，跟社會大眾說目前是沒有受到任何的影響。他們在演習的過程當中，如果民航會受到影響，他們也會事先告知。這一次他們確實是沒有特別告知這件事情，我們配合國安單位以及海巡單位，我們在海岸上面看到的，其實也真的對我們的航運沒有任何影響。不過委員你這個提醒是很重要的，如果事情真的發生的時候，交通部及所屬的包含民航、包含航港，應該做什麼樣子的應對，這個確實是有需要要有計畫，但是這個計畫我們可能會會同國安單位或者是國防部一起來做協同因應。"],["林委員沛祥：所以這次演習之前，其實兩邊有一定程度的默契不要影響到民生、不要影響到貨運的進出對吧！"],["陳部長世凱：有沒有默契我不曉得，但是以結論來看，確實是沒有影響到。在他們的演習過程，我們所有的航班都正常的起降，所有航道上面的船舶也都正常的進出，這個部分是沒有問題。"],["林委員沛祥：這是值得欣慰的一件事情，不過在演習的時候，現在坊間都在傳有一艘LNG船本來是12月要到臺中港，結果後來在中間好像因為有這個演習的原因被迫回航，或是說沒有辦法停進臺中港，部長您知不知道這件事情？"],["陳部長世凱：LNG船的部分，我之前看到媒體在報導這件事情，但實際上有嗎？LNG船應該……"],["林委員沛祥：因為後來中油有跑出來說這個LNG船提早到了，我要問的最主要目的是因為假設真的有任何疏失……不要講疏失啦，如果有任何的意外，LNG船來到我們的港口，目前只有臺中港，其他港口的話……如果這個LNG船來的目的是為了電力的供給，那這部分變成對我們國安有相當大的影響，所以我想請教部長您對這件事情的看法如何？"],["陳部長世凱：我們後來查證或許是沒有這件事，應該是有媒體的報導，但媒體的報導並不具真實性，所以實際上並沒有這件事情。如果真的影響到這個東西，當然臺灣的能源會受到非常大的影響，目前這次的演習，我剛剛也跟委員報告過，我們所有的船舶、航班都沒有問題，進出也都順利，所以這個訊息或許是媒體的誤報。"],["李董事長賢義：跟委員再補充報告一下，一般LNG船的話，大概10天或7天會來臺中港，進臺中港的時候，它會看海象，這一次的話，這個演習的區域沒有收到，因為那個座標，一般如果有的話它會很清楚，航港局會跟我們講，我會請相關的所有航商繞道。"],["林委員沛祥：為什麼我特別注重這件事情？因為不管是海港也好、空港也好，等於是一個國家的肝臟，要是出事情就是大事。沒事就是好事，出事就是大事，所以我特地把航道這件事情拿出來這邊討論，希望未來部長……"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員沛祥：很尷尬，上次我也問過李孟諺部長這個問題，不過我每次都會關注，如果有這方面的事情，我都會特地關注航道的問題，因為這是我們國家最重要的事情，不管是經濟還是各方面。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員沛祥：再來一個議題是我最近也看到媒體上面說，運輸業管理規則及客貨運運價準則也要做修正，是嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：委員，您所提的應該是針對外送平臺，我們有做這方面的……"],["林委員沛祥：我先把這個定調，其實我對這個事是肯定的，這個不是壞事，這是好事，但是尷尬的是，你去確認settle一個明確的計算公式，把外送員的最低薪資圈下來，把它確定下來不是壞事，外送員有很多很多的困難，也遇到很多很多的問題，需要公部門去幫他們解決，這是第一步，這絕對是好事。但是我也必須從比較務實的角度來看，羊毛出在羊身上，我們這個計算公式出去之後，讓業者的成本提高，通常就會轉嫁在消費者身上，我必須把這些話講清楚。目前來講，我們知道平臺對於消費者有收所謂的服務費，但是我為什麼聽到所謂的樓層費這玩意兒？你有聽過樓層費嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，目前的修訂是這個樣子，交通部其實不會管到外送員的薪資部分，交通部能夠管的是運費部分，我們運費的處理是這樣子，我們運費的處理是叫作透明化，我們在處理的過程其實是叫透明化，讓消費者也好或者是外送員也好，或者是平臺也好，讓運費能夠透明，讓大家知道透明的運費是多少。再來，針對樓層費或者等待費用等等是「得」，也就是這些可以用來作為計費的可能性，但到時候平臺要不要用是平臺自己決定。最後一點是我們針對定價的部分，是讓消費者、外送員以及公司、地方政府加上公路局，我們五方共同來討論、來協定，所以各方會有平衡的意見在裡面。再來，我們定的價格是上限……"],["林委員沛祥：其實你講到這一點，我比較擔心所謂的巧立名目，因為像樓層費這種東西，大家會覺得聽起來怪怪的，因為基本上如果是在都市都有電梯，收樓層費就讓人家覺得坐電梯要多辛苦，這就是很實際的巧立名目。"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["林委員沛祥：第二個，你剛剛有提到公式出來，但是公式出來之後會不會導致區域的不平衡，這點我很擔心，區域的不平衡有兩方面，一方面是都市和鄉村，都市基本上使用率比較高，鄉村使用率比較低，變成比較多的外送員會願意到都市去，反而鄉村需要送的時候沒有人，這是區域上的問題。第二個問題在於假設基隆和臺北，如果最後面計算公式出來，基隆比較低，臺北比較高，結果外送人員全部都跑到臺北去，基隆反而外送人員少，會不會造成這種所謂的不平衡unbalance？這點我希望交通部要注意。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實定價的部分到時候是各縣市自己訂，我剛才講的五方平臺，包含消費者、外送員、外送公司平臺、縣市政府、公路局，每個縣市視每個縣市的狀況自己下去訂，這個部分其實也有商業機制存在。"],["林委員沛祥：其實我建議部長，針對這個案子，這是個好的修法，我必須講這是好的修法，去保障這些外送人員權益是好的修法，可是似乎沒有跟大眾好好討論過。"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["林委員沛祥：如果可以的話，交通部能不能做個專題報告，針對這個案子，我們來好好討論一下？"],["陳部長世凱：委員這個建議很好，我也覺得這件事要大家好好討論，現在是預告期。"],["林委員沛祥：緩一下啦！"],["陳部長世凱：當然！"],["林委員沛祥：因為這是很重要的法，聽起來很小，可是因為我們現在雙薪家庭、都會化，事情越來越多，而且老實講，現在大家在省成本的時候，這個反而越來越省、越來越大、越來越方便，但是如果要保障他們的話，這個案子就應該讓所有的相關人士全部進來，大家坐下來討論，然後緩一點，事緩則圓，這是我的意見。"],["陳部長世凱：我相當認同，我們現在在預告期，即便是過了預告期，我們也會再做修正。我剛剛有強調過，這是最上位的，我們只有針對運費的透明化，至於勞工的權利又是另外一個議題，或者是外送的價格是另外一個商業議題，我覺得這個部分要多討論，我非常贊同。"],["林委員沛祥：我期待下一步的發展，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林沛祥委員。","接下來邀請林國成委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":106,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-6","speakers":["陳素月","李昆澤","林沛祥","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","魯明哲","廖先翔","黃健豪","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","林德福","黃建賓","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","何欣純","葉元之","廖偉翔","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","洪孟楷","李柏毅","陳瑩","黃國昌","邱志偉","游顥","麥玉珍","林宜瑾","劉建國","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138501_00001"}}}