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135.989, \"end\": 152.831, \"text\": \"我們勞資會議的這個舉辦當然也是必須考慮到有時候企業形態啦那因為我們中小企業實在太多了那麼所以98%是中小企業那他對於勞資會議的機制沒有很瞭解\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 135.989, \"end\": 136.89, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 136.89, \"end\": 139.474, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 139.474, \"end\": 139.614, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 139.614, \"end\": 139.814, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 139.814, \"end\": 140.455, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 140.455, \"end\": 140.735, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 140.735, \"end\": 141.096, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 141.096, \"end\": 141.917, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 141.917, \"end\": 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\"處理的模式希望能夠增加工作的不管是項目也好或時間也好那如何能夠有好的方法來避免或者是來讓這樣的處理可以更為完整那不知道部長針對這個離線權的看法是怎麼樣未來勞動部有沒有什麼樣的態度來面對這個一定會碰到的這個問題因為這個會讓我們剛所提到那個幸福的感覺是不一樣的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 438.884, \"end\": 439.004, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 439.004, \"end\": 439.124, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 439.124, \"end\": 439.364, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 439.364, \"end\": 440.044, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 440.044, \"end\": 440.224, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 440.224, \"end\": 440.384, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 440.384, \"end\": 441.045, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 441.045, \"end\": 441.245, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 441.245, \"end\": 441.645, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 441.645, \"end\": 441.885, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 441.885, \"end\": 442.045, \"score\": 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,886 --> 00:00:12,572\n謝謝主席我們有請何部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,008 --> 00:00:17,248\n部長好\n\n3\n00:00:48,429 --> 00:01:09,410\n另外今天想要跟部長請教是除了這些基本生活保障的同時有沒有機會讓我們的勞動朋友有幸福的感覺這是今天要跟部長來互相討論的地方其實我們也可以知道根據我們現在勞基法的一些規定\n\n4\n00:01:11,152 --> 00:01:29,856\n不管是在針對雙週、八週或者是四週變形了工時、延長工作時間等等在事業單位有工會的時候那就必須要有一個好的勞資會議的同意才能夠去根據這個需要來做一些調整\n\n5\n00:01:30,376 --> 00:01:46,042\n那如果沒有的話呢就需要去多了解看看那這6項的彈性措施目前依照第75條的這個規定呢如果沒有辦法遵守的時候呢就有罰則\n\n6\n00:01:47,142 --> 00:02:11,417\n那這是由各地主管機關可以來做對僱主進行這個行政罰則那不知道到目前為止有沒有相關的資料或是統計知道說因為有違反這六項規定而受到影響的一些案件那這部分不知道部長有沒有相關的資料可以提供給我們當參考是我可以先請對\n\n7\n00:02:15,989 --> 00:02:32,831\n我們勞資會議的這個舉辦當然也是必須考慮到有時候企業形態啦那因為我們中小企業實在太多了那麼所以98%是中小企業那他對於勞資會議的機制沒有很瞭解\n\n8\n00:02:33,972 --> 00:02:59,380\n對所以我們還要再宣導然後再多加強還有另一方面是那種微型企業五人以下的甚至連勞保城堡都不成立這樣子那他們那種形態是變成什麼呢他的雇主通常也是員工就是雇主跟員工之間就就是簡直是一家人家庭類的這樣子的一種方式是這個這種形態也很多所以\n\n9\n00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:28,437\n你也不能說他們這種就他們其實也是另外一種另類的勞資會議啦欸這種還蠻多的所以我們會我們必須要針對這些不同樣態的企業型態喔要來這個來來盤點狀況然後來實務面有他的困難的地方是因為依照需要的話這個勞資會議看會又還要做記錄對如果沒有完整的記錄的話那可能就要面臨嗯\n\n10\n00:03:29,938 --> 00:03:30,178\n委員會主席\n\n11\n00:03:46,272 --> 00:03:46,392\n我們多來輔導啦!\n\n12\n00:04:07,198 --> 00:04:16,583\n對勞動朋友來講如果有感受到這個好處的話相對來講他在幸福的感覺就一定會只是會上升因為我們發現那麼多家的這個160幾萬家的這些\n\n13\n00:04:22,128 --> 00:04:45,856\n中小企業事實上開過會議的只有16萬對因為其實他們多數真的本身有點都是Wearefamily的這樣的形態這樣子他本身他有很多彈性彈性的那一種勞資的因應的方式所以在部長這邊同仁們可以多宣導的同時\n\n14\n00:04:46,716 --> 00:05:11,670\n也能夠有機會去落實尤其是如果有比較具體的工會或者是針對某一些特別的狀況之下也讓我們的勞動朋友知道有這樣的權益可以試著去爭取因為我們也從這個貴單位就是貴部所呈現的這個勞資會議的流程圖裡面看到的確這些都已經具備了\n\n15\n00:05:12,423 --> 00:05:12,623\n委員會主席\n\n16\n00:05:29,807 --> 00:05:51,760\n就是不要讓一般的我們的勞動朋友認為說如果是只有30人以上才能做這些事情那30人以下好像就比較有他的困難度存在這個部分就是要呈現我剛剛一直在提到的讓我們的勞動朋友有感受到\n\n17\n00:05:53,681 --> 00:06:13,924\n就很關心他能夠感受到我們這些在工作過程當中那種被關心被照顧的感覺我想如果有這樣的感覺出來或者是有這樣的事實存在的時候這種勞動的這些呈現就不會有那麼明顯的會因為他覺得這個工作環境不適合他而離開這個職場\n\n18\n00:06:15,885 --> 00:06:32,816\n這部分就麻煩部長還有同仁們一起來設法來改善好不好好謝謝委員會這樣講其實是因為沿街的就是所謂的離線權離線權這是一個未來一定要面對的問題\n\n19\n00:06:34,677 --> 00:07:00,635\n因為3CC產品的這些越來越發達還有我們不管是在這個資訊或者是相關的這些設備還有使用越來越多那澳洲他們已經讓他們的這個離線權可以透過立法的方式來執行那歐盟其實是最早開始法國更是率先通過了離線權的法案\n\n20\n00:07:02,616 --> 00:07:17,744\n包括德國美國也陸續的在執行當中離線權的意思就是說當所有的同仁離開他正常的工作時間以後如果接到了相關透過這些資訊\n\n21\n00:07:18,884 --> 00:07:45,631\n處理的模式希望能夠增加工作的不管是項目也好或時間也好那如何能夠有好的方法來避免或者是來讓這樣的處理可以更為完整那不知道部長針對這個離線權的看法是怎麼樣未來勞動部有沒有什麼樣的態度來面對這個一定會碰到的這個問題因為這個會讓我們剛所提到那個幸福的感覺是不一樣的\n\n22\n00:07:46,929 --> 00:08:00,559\n市委員我們其實關於離線權當然我們是支持勞工要在這裡面取得他應有的權益啦所以我們其實有指引的就是你如果下班以後你用來\n\n23\n00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:18,113\n對通知你的員工要加班具體要求加班的話那員工是可以拿這個東西去跟勞動局主張說你應該給付我加班費的因為我們知道其實台北市啊台北市他們已經針對勞工的離線權\n\n24\n00:08:20,274 --> 00:08:46,213\n開始做一些應變處理措施甚至他會要求僱主下班傳訊算假班而且這個會員還是一分鐘做計算高雄市好像也對於這樣離線權也有一些想法跟動作我相信主管機關部長這邊如果能夠及早也把這樣的方法或者是未來要面對的部分能夠及早讓\n\n25\n00:08:48,294 --> 00:09:14,474\n民眾更知道他未來面對這個離線權可以怎麼處理的話應該有很好的一個指導作用是謝謝委員不過就是說這個需要同時對勞資雙方都要宣導對免得對就要不然會造成很多對所以重點就是說不管是勞方或資方應該共同來面對這樣的問題而不是單純是要求勞方或資方要去獨自面對問題\n\n26\n00:09:16,069 --> 00:09:29,158\n對是當然這其實也可以視為是一種彈性工作的形態的變化那當然我們這個我們來研究是對這個跟傳統的工時的計算那之間如何的來\n\n27\n00:09:31,639 --> 00:09:59,551\n所以因為勞動部基本上就是要照顧廣泛的勞工的權益嘛所以當然我們也不希望說因為在這個照顧這個勞工勞動朋友的權益的同時會影響到各位的生產力或者是相關的影響這是同時要兼顧只是因為隨著這個時代的進步當然很多的事情我們要重新的面對對對對是那下一個部分就是要建構這個友善的生養環境\n\n28\n00:10:01,852 --> 00:10:20,513\n其實我們也很了解針對團性育嬰假我們在今年的5月9日開始試辦不知道到目前為止將近5個多月的試辦期間有89個公司單位的參與有沒有初步的成果出來可以提供給大家做參考\n\n29\n00:10:22,074 --> 00:10:29,838\n對跟委員報告我們10月11號也有召開這個的期中座談會那麼我們到9月30號有統計有短期育嬰留庭這一種有166件那我們座談會召開的結果\n\n30\n00:10:37,321 --> 00:10:37,461\n王正旭\n\n31\n00:10:55,643 --> 00:11:11,330\n那他也怕說相關的專業人員會不會有這工作停掉了要回去恢復的問題等等這些啦這是實際執行上的問題那麼我們年底就會結束了所以我們會出一個檢討報告然後下一步怎麼走我們那再來跟委員報告\n\n32\n00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:29,096\n所以等有結果以後才會知道什麼時候會正式上路對對對不過我們的育嬰留艇成效非常好就是那個快撞的六個月的那個先對那個執行成效是非常好尤其是男性\n\n33\n00:11:29,776 --> 00:11:29,796\n謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10886\t12572\t謝謝主席我們有請何部長\n17008\t17248\t部長好\n48429\t69410\t另外今天想要跟部長請教是除了這些基本生活保障的同時有沒有機會讓我們的勞動朋友有幸福的感覺這是今天要跟部長來互相討論的地方其實我們也可以知道根據我們現在勞基法的一些規定\n71152\t89856\t不管是在針對雙週、八週或者是四週變形了工時、延長工作時間等等在事業單位有工會的時候那就必須要有一個好的勞資會議的同意才能夠去根據這個需要來做一些調整\n90376\t106042\t那如果沒有的話呢就需要去多了解看看那這6項的彈性措施目前依照第75條的這個規定呢如果沒有辦法遵守的時候呢就有罰則\n107142\t131417\t那這是由各地主管機關可以來做對僱主進行這個行政罰則那不知道到目前為止有沒有相關的資料或是統計知道說因為有違反這六項規定而受到影響的一些案件那這部分不知道部長有沒有相關的資料可以提供給我們當參考是我可以先請對\n135989\t152831\t我們勞資會議的這個舉辦當然也是必須考慮到有時候企業形態啦那因為我們中小企業實在太多了那麼所以98%是中小企業那他對於勞資會議的機制沒有很瞭解\n153972\t179380\t對所以我們還要再宣導然後再多加強還有另一方面是那種微型企業五人以下的甚至連勞保城堡都不成立這樣子那他們那種形態是變成什麼呢他的雇主通常也是員工就是雇主跟員工之間就就是簡直是一家人家庭類的這樣子的一種方式是這個這種形態也很多所以\n180180\t208437\t你也不能說他們這種就他們其實也是另外一種另類的勞資會議啦欸這種還蠻多的所以我們會我們必須要針對這些不同樣態的企業型態喔要來這個來來盤點狀況然後來實務面有他的困難的地方是因為依照需要的話這個勞資會議看會又還要做記錄對如果沒有完整的記錄的話那可能就要面臨嗯\n209938\t210178\t委員會主席\n226272\t226392\t我們多來輔導啦!\n247198\t256583\t對勞動朋友來講如果有感受到這個好處的話相對來講他在幸福的感覺就一定會只是會上升因為我們發現那麼多家的這個160幾萬家的這些\n262128\t285856\t中小企業事實上開過會議的只有16萬對因為其實他們多數真的本身有點都是We are family的這樣的形態這樣子他本身他有很多彈性彈性的那一種勞資的因應的方式所以在部長這邊同仁們可以多宣導的同時\n286716\t311670\t也能夠有機會去落實尤其是如果有比較具體的工會或者是針對某一些特別的狀況之下也讓我們的勞動朋友知道有這樣的權益可以試著去爭取因為我們也從這個貴單位就是貴部所呈現的這個勞資會議的流程圖裡面看到的確這些都已經具備了\n312423\t312623\t委員會主席\n329807\t351760\t就是不要讓一般的我們的勞動朋友認為說如果是只有30人以上才能做這些事情那30人以下好像就比較有他的困難度存在這個部分就是要呈現我剛剛一直在提到的讓我們的勞動朋友有感受到\n353681\t373924\t就很關心他能夠感受到我們這些在工作過程當中那種被關心被照顧的感覺我想如果有這樣的感覺出來或者是有這樣的事實存在的時候這種勞動的這些呈現就不會有那麼明顯的會因為他覺得這個工作環境不適合他而離開這個職場\n375885\t392816\t這部分就麻煩部長還有同仁們一起來設法來改善好不好好謝謝委員會這樣講其實是因為沿街的就是所謂的離線權離線權這是一個未來一定要面對的問題\n394677\t420635\t因為3CC產品的這些越來越發達還有我們不管是在這個資訊或者是相關的這些設備還有使用越來越多那澳洲他們已經讓他們的這個離線權可以透過立法的方式來執行那歐盟其實是最早開始法國更是率先通過了離線權的法案\n422616\t437744\t包括德國美國也陸續的在執行當中離線權的意思就是說當所有的同仁離開他正常的工作時間以後如果接到了相關透過這些資訊\n438884\t465631\t處理的模式希望能夠增加工作的不管是項目也好或時間也好那如何能夠有好的方法來避免或者是來讓這樣的處理可以更為完整那不知道部長針對這個離線權的看法是怎麼樣未來勞動部有沒有什麼樣的態度來面對這個一定會碰到的這個問題因為這個會讓我們剛所提到那個幸福的感覺是不一樣的\n466929\t480559\t市委員我們其實關於離線權當然我們是支持勞工要在這裡面取得他應有的權益啦所以我們其實有指引的就是你如果下班以後你用來\n482400\t498113\t對通知你的員工要加班具體要求加班的話那員工是可以拿這個東西去跟勞動局主張說你應該給付我加班費的因為我們知道其實台北市啊台北市他們已經針對勞工的離線權\n500274\t526213\t開始做一些應變處理措施甚至他會要求僱主下班傳訊算假班而且這個會員還是一分鐘做計算高雄市好像也對於這樣離線權也有一些想法跟動作我相信主管機關部長這邊如果能夠及早也把這樣的方法或者是未來要面對的部分能夠及早讓\n528294\t554474\t民眾更知道他未來面對這個離線權可以怎麼處理的話應該有很好的一個指導作用是謝謝委員不過就是說這個需要同時對勞資雙方都要宣導對免得對就要不然會造成很多對所以重點就是說不管是勞方或資方應該共同來面對這樣的問題而不是單純是要求勞方或資方要去獨自面對問題\n556069\t569158\t對是當然這其實也可以視為是一種彈性工作的形態的變化那當然我們這個我們來研究是對這個跟傳統的工時的計算那之間如何的來\n571639\t599551\t所以因為勞動部基本上就是要照顧廣泛的勞工的權益嘛所以當然我們也不希望說因為在這個照顧這個勞工勞動朋友的權益的同時會影響到各位的生產力或者是相關的影響這是同時要兼顧只是因為隨著這個時代的進步當然很多的事情我們要重新的面對對對對是那下一個部分就是要建構這個友善的生養環境\n601852\t620513\t其實我們也很了解針對團性育嬰假我們在今年的5月9日開始試辦不知道到目前為止將近5個多月的試辦期間有89個公司單位的參與有沒有初步的成果出來可以提供給大家做參考\n622074\t629838\t對跟委員報告我們10月11號也有召開這個的期中座談會那麼我們到9月30號有統計有短期育嬰留庭這一種有166件那我們座談會召開的結果\n637321\t637461\t王正旭\n655643\t671330\t那他也怕說相關的專業人員會不會有這工作停掉了要回去恢復的問題等等這些啦這是實際執行上的問題那麼我們年底就會結束了所以我們會出一個檢討報告然後下一步怎麼走我們那再來跟委員報告\n672150\t689096\t所以等有結果以後才會知道什麼時候會正式上路對對對不過我們的育嬰留艇成效非常好就是那個快撞的六個月的那個先對那個執行成效是非常好尤其是男性\n689776\t689796\t謝謝委員謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們有請何部長\n部長好\n另外今天想要跟部長請教是除了這些基本生活保障的同時有沒有機會讓我們的勞動朋友有幸福的感覺這是今天要跟部長來互相討論的地方其實我們也可以知道根據我們現在勞基法的一些規定\n不管是在針對雙週、八週或者是四週變形了工時、延長工作時間等等在事業單位有工會的時候那就必須要有一個好的勞資會議的同意才能夠去根據這個需要來做一些調整\n那如果沒有的話呢就需要去多了解看看那這6項的彈性措施目前依照第75條的這個規定呢如果沒有辦法遵守的時候呢就有罰則\n那這是由各地主管機關可以來做對僱主進行這個行政罰則那不知道到目前為止有沒有相關的資料或是統計知道說因為有違反這六項規定而受到影響的一些案件那這部分不知道部長有沒有相關的資料可以提供給我們當參考是我可以先請對\n我們勞資會議的這個舉辦當然也是必須考慮到有時候企業形態啦那因為我們中小企業實在太多了那麼所以98%是中小企業那他對於勞資會議的機制沒有很瞭解\n對所以我們還要再宣導然後再多加強還有另一方面是那種微型企業五人以下的甚至連勞保城堡都不成立這樣子那他們那種形態是變成什麼呢他的雇主通常也是員工就是雇主跟員工之間就就是簡直是一家人家庭類的這樣子的一種方式是這個這種形態也很多所以\n你也不能說他們這種就他們其實也是另外一種另類的勞資會議啦欸這種還蠻多的所以我們會我們必須要針對這些不同樣態的企業型態喔要來這個來來盤點狀況然後來實務面有他的困難的地方是因為依照需要的話這個勞資會議看會又還要做記錄對如果沒有完整的記錄的話那可能就要面臨嗯\n委員會主席\n我們多來輔導啦!\n對勞動朋友來講如果有感受到這個好處的話相對來講他在幸福的感覺就一定會只是會上升因為我們發現那麼多家的這個160幾萬家的這些\n中小企業事實上開過會議的只有16萬對因為其實他們多數真的本身有點都是We are family的這樣的形態這樣子他本身他有很多彈性彈性的那一種勞資的因應的方式所以在部長這邊同仁們可以多宣導的同時\n也能夠有機會去落實尤其是如果有比較具體的工會或者是針對某一些特別的狀況之下也讓我們的勞動朋友知道有這樣的權益可以試著去爭取因為我們也從這個貴單位就是貴部所呈現的這個勞資會議的流程圖裡面看到的確這些都已經具備了\n委員會主席\n就是不要讓一般的我們的勞動朋友認為說如果是只有30人以上才能做這些事情那30人以下好像就比較有他的困難度存在這個部分就是要呈現我剛剛一直在提到的讓我們的勞動朋友有感受到\n就很關心他能夠感受到我們這些在工作過程當中那種被關心被照顧的感覺我想如果有這樣的感覺出來或者是有這樣的事實存在的時候這種勞動的這些呈現就不會有那麼明顯的會因為他覺得這個工作環境不適合他而離開這個職場\n這部分就麻煩部長還有同仁們一起來設法來改善好不好好謝謝委員會這樣講其實是因為沿街的就是所謂的離線權離線權這是一個未來一定要面對的問題\n因為3CC產品的這些越來越發達還有我們不管是在這個資訊或者是相關的這些設備還有使用越來越多那澳洲他們已經讓他們的這個離線權可以透過立法的方式來執行那歐盟其實是最早開始法國更是率先通過了離線權的法案\n包括德國美國也陸續的在執行當中離線權的意思就是說當所有的同仁離開他正常的工作時間以後如果接到了相關透過這些資訊\n處理的模式希望能夠增加工作的不管是項目也好或時間也好那如何能夠有好的方法來避免或者是來讓這樣的處理可以更為完整那不知道部長針對這個離線權的看法是怎麼樣未來勞動部有沒有什麼樣的態度來面對這個一定會碰到的這個問題因為這個會讓我們剛所提到那個幸福的感覺是不一樣的\n市委員我們其實關於離線權當然我們是支持勞工要在這裡面取得他應有的權益啦所以我們其實有指引的就是你如果下班以後你用來\n對通知你的員工要加班具體要求加班的話那員工是可以拿這個東西去跟勞動局主張說你應該給付我加班費的因為我們知道其實台北市啊台北市他們已經針對勞工的離線權\n開始做一些應變處理措施甚至他會要求僱主下班傳訊算假班而且這個會員還是一分鐘做計算高雄市好像也對於這樣離線權也有一些想法跟動作我相信主管機關部長這邊如果能夠及早也把這樣的方法或者是未來要面對的部分能夠及早讓\n民眾更知道他未來面對這個離線權可以怎麼處理的話應該有很好的一個指導作用是謝謝委員不過就是說這個需要同時對勞資雙方都要宣導對免得對就要不然會造成很多對所以重點就是說不管是勞方或資方應該共同來面對這樣的問題而不是單純是要求勞方或資方要去獨自面對問題\n對是當然這其實也可以視為是一種彈性工作的形態的變化那當然我們這個我們來研究是對這個跟傳統的工時的計算那之間如何的來\n所以因為勞動部基本上就是要照顧廣泛的勞工的權益嘛所以當然我們也不希望說因為在這個照顧這個勞工勞動朋友的權益的同時會影響到各位的生產力或者是相關的影響這是同時要兼顧只是因為隨著這個時代的進步當然很多的事情我們要重新的面對對對對是那下一個部分就是要建構這個友善的生養環境\n其實我們也很了解針對團性育嬰假我們在今年的5月9日開始試辦不知道到目前為止將近5個多月的試辦期間有89個公司單位的參與有沒有初步的成果出來可以提供給大家做參考\n對跟委員報告我們10月11號也有召開這個的期中座談會那麼我們到9月30號有統計有短期育嬰留庭這一種有166件那我們座談會召開的結果\n王正旭\n那他也怕說相關的專業人員會不會有這工作停掉了要回去恢復的問題等等這些啦這是實際執行上的問題那麼我們年底就會結束了所以我們會出一個檢討報告然後下一步怎麼走我們那再來跟委員報告\n所以等有結果以後才會知道什麼時候會正式上路對對對不過我們的育嬰留艇成效非常好就是那個快撞的六個月的那個先對那個執行成效是非常好尤其是男性\n謝謝委員謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.886 --> 00:12.572\n謝謝主席我們有請何部長\n\n00:17.008 --> 00:17.248\n部長好\n\n00:48.429 --> 01:09.410\n另外今天想要跟部長請教是除了這些基本生活保障的同時有沒有機會讓我們的勞動朋友有幸福的感覺這是今天要跟部長來互相討論的地方其實我們也可以知道根據我們現在勞基法的一些規定\n\n01:11.152 --> 01:29.856\n不管是在針對雙週、八週或者是四週變形了工時、延長工作時間等等在事業單位有工會的時候那就必須要有一個好的勞資會議的同意才能夠去根據這個需要來做一些調整\n\n01:30.376 --> 01:46.042\n那如果沒有的話呢就需要去多了解看看那這6項的彈性措施目前依照第75條的這個規定呢如果沒有辦法遵守的時候呢就有罰則\n\n01:47.142 --> 02:11.417\n那這是由各地主管機關可以來做對僱主進行這個行政罰則那不知道到目前為止有沒有相關的資料或是統計知道說因為有違反這六項規定而受到影響的一些案件那這部分不知道部長有沒有相關的資料可以提供給我們當參考是我可以先請對\n\n02:15.989 --> 02:32.831\n我們勞資會議的這個舉辦當然也是必須考慮到有時候企業形態啦那因為我們中小企業實在太多了那麼所以98%是中小企業那他對於勞資會議的機制沒有很瞭解\n\n02:33.972 --> 02:59.380\n對所以我們還要再宣導然後再多加強還有另一方面是那種微型企業五人以下的甚至連勞保城堡都不成立這樣子那他們那種形態是變成什麼呢他的雇主通常也是員工就是雇主跟員工之間就就是簡直是一家人家庭類的這樣子的一種方式是這個這種形態也很多所以\n\n03:00.180 --> 03:28.437\n你也不能說他們這種就他們其實也是另外一種另類的勞資會議啦欸這種還蠻多的所以我們會我們必須要針對這些不同樣態的企業型態喔要來這個來來盤點狀況然後來實務面有他的困難的地方是因為依照需要的話這個勞資會議看會又還要做記錄對如果沒有完整的記錄的話那可能就要面臨嗯\n\n03:29.938 --> 03:30.178\n委員會主席\n\n03:46.272 --> 03:46.392\n我們多來輔導啦!\n\n04:07.198 --> 04:16.583\n對勞動朋友來講如果有感受到這個好處的話相對來講他在幸福的感覺就一定會只是會上升因為我們發現那麼多家的這個160幾萬家的這些\n\n04:22.128 --> 04:45.856\n中小企業事實上開過會議的只有16萬對因為其實他們多數真的本身有點都是Wearefamily的這樣的形態這樣子他本身他有很多彈性彈性的那一種勞資的因應的方式所以在部長這邊同仁們可以多宣導的同時\n\n04:46.716 --> 05:11.670\n也能夠有機會去落實尤其是如果有比較具體的工會或者是針對某一些特別的狀況之下也讓我們的勞動朋友知道有這樣的權益可以試著去爭取因為我們也從這個貴單位就是貴部所呈現的這個勞資會議的流程圖裡面看到的確這些都已經具備了\n\n05:12.423 --> 05:12.623\n委員會主席\n\n05:29.807 --> 05:51.760\n就是不要讓一般的我們的勞動朋友認為說如果是只有30人以上才能做這些事情那30人以下好像就比較有他的困難度存在這個部分就是要呈現我剛剛一直在提到的讓我們的勞動朋友有感受到\n\n05:53.681 --> 06:13.924\n就很關心他能夠感受到我們這些在工作過程當中那種被關心被照顧的感覺我想如果有這樣的感覺出來或者是有這樣的事實存在的時候這種勞動的這些呈現就不會有那麼明顯的會因為他覺得這個工作環境不適合他而離開這個職場\n\n06:15.885 --> 06:32.816\n這部分就麻煩部長還有同仁們一起來設法來改善好不好好謝謝委員會這樣講其實是因為沿街的就是所謂的離線權離線權這是一個未來一定要面對的問題\n\n06:34.677 --> 07:00.635\n因為3CC產品的這些越來越發達還有我們不管是在這個資訊或者是相關的這些設備還有使用越來越多那澳洲他們已經讓他們的這個離線權可以透過立法的方式來執行那歐盟其實是最早開始法國更是率先通過了離線權的法案\n\n07:02.616 --> 07:17.744\n包括德國美國也陸續的在執行當中離線權的意思就是說當所有的同仁離開他正常的工作時間以後如果接到了相關透過這些資訊\n\n07:18.884 --> 07:45.631\n處理的模式希望能夠增加工作的不管是項目也好或時間也好那如何能夠有好的方法來避免或者是來讓這樣的處理可以更為完整那不知道部長針對這個離線權的看法是怎麼樣未來勞動部有沒有什麼樣的態度來面對這個一定會碰到的這個問題因為這個會讓我們剛所提到那個幸福的感覺是不一樣的\n\n07:46.929 --> 08:00.559\n市委員我們其實關於離線權當然我們是支持勞工要在這裡面取得他應有的權益啦所以我們其實有指引的就是你如果下班以後你用來\n\n08:02.400 --> 08:18.113\n對通知你的員工要加班具體要求加班的話那員工是可以拿這個東西去跟勞動局主張說你應該給付我加班費的因為我們知道其實台北市啊台北市他們已經針對勞工的離線權\n\n08:20.274 --> 08:46.213\n開始做一些應變處理措施甚至他會要求僱主下班傳訊算假班而且這個會員還是一分鐘做計算高雄市好像也對於這樣離線權也有一些想法跟動作我相信主管機關部長這邊如果能夠及早也把這樣的方法或者是未來要面對的部分能夠及早讓\n\n08:48.294 --> 09:14.474\n民眾更知道他未來面對這個離線權可以怎麼處理的話應該有很好的一個指導作用是謝謝委員不過就是說這個需要同時對勞資雙方都要宣導對免得對就要不然會造成很多對所以重點就是說不管是勞方或資方應該共同來面對這樣的問題而不是單純是要求勞方或資方要去獨自面對問題\n\n09:16.069 --> 09:29.158\n對是當然這其實也可以視為是一種彈性工作的形態的變化那當然我們這個我們來研究是對這個跟傳統的工時的計算那之間如何的來\n\n09:31.639 --> 09:59.551\n所以因為勞動部基本上就是要照顧廣泛的勞工的權益嘛所以當然我們也不希望說因為在這個照顧這個勞工勞動朋友的權益的同時會影響到各位的生產力或者是相關的影響這是同時要兼顧只是因為隨著這個時代的進步當然很多的事情我們要重新的面對對對對是那下一個部分就是要建構這個友善的生養環境\n\n10:01.852 --> 10:20.513\n其實我們也很了解針對團性育嬰假我們在今年的5月9日開始試辦不知道到目前為止將近5個多月的試辦期間有89個公司單位的參與有沒有初步的成果出來可以提供給大家做參考\n\n10:22.074 --> 10:29.838\n對跟委員報告我們10月11號也有召開這個的期中座談會那麼我們到9月30號有統計有短期育嬰留庭這一種有166件那我們座談會召開的結果\n\n10:37.321 --> 10:37.461\n王正旭\n\n10:55.643 --> 11:11.330\n那他也怕說相關的專業人員會不會有這工作停掉了要回去恢復的問題等等這些啦這是實際執行上的問題那麼我們年底就會結束了所以我們會出一個檢討報告然後下一步怎麼走我們那再來跟委員報告\n\n11:12.150 --> 11:29.096\n所以等有結果以後才會知道什麼時候會正式上路對對對不過我們的育嬰留艇成效非常好就是那個快撞的六個月的那個先對那個執行成效是非常好尤其是男性\n\n11:29.776 --> 11:29.796\n謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.886,"end":12.572,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請何部長"},{"start":17.008,"end":17.248,"text":"部長好"},{"start":48.429,"end":69.41,"text":"另外今天想要跟部長請教是除了這些基本生活保障的同時有沒有機會讓我們的勞動朋友有幸福的感覺這是今天要跟部長來互相討論的地方其實我們也可以知道根據我們現在勞基法的一些規定"},{"start":71.152,"end":89.856,"text":"不管是在針對雙週、八週或者是四週變形了工時、延長工作時間等等在事業單位有工會的時候那就必須要有一個好的勞資會議的同意才能夠去根據這個需要來做一些調整"},{"start":90.376,"end":106.042,"text":"那如果沒有的話呢就需要去多了解看看那這6項的彈性措施目前依照第75條的這個規定呢如果沒有辦法遵守的時候呢就有罰則"},{"start":107.142,"end":131.417,"text":"那這是由各地主管機關可以來做對僱主進行這個行政罰則那不知道到目前為止有沒有相關的資料或是統計知道說因為有違反這六項規定而受到影響的一些案件那這部分不知道部長有沒有相關的資料可以提供給我們當參考是我可以先請對"},{"start":135.989,"end":152.831,"text":"我們勞資會議的這個舉辦當然也是必須考慮到有時候企業形態啦那因為我們中小企業實在太多了那麼所以98%是中小企業那他對於勞資會議的機制沒有很瞭解"},{"start":153.972,"end":179.38,"text":"對所以我們還要再宣導然後再多加強還有另一方面是那種微型企業五人以下的甚至連勞保城堡都不成立這樣子那他們那種形態是變成什麼呢他的雇主通常也是員工就是雇主跟員工之間就就是簡直是一家人家庭類的這樣子的一種方式是這個這種形態也很多所以"},{"start":180.18,"end":208.437,"text":"你也不能說他們這種就他們其實也是另外一種另類的勞資會議啦欸這種還蠻多的所以我們會我們必須要針對這些不同樣態的企業型態喔要來這個來來盤點狀況然後來實務面有他的困難的地方是因為依照需要的話這個勞資會議看會又還要做記錄對如果沒有完整的記錄的話那可能就要面臨嗯"},{"start":209.938,"end":210.178,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":226.272,"end":226.392,"text":"我們多來輔導啦!"},{"start":247.198,"end":256.583,"text":"對勞動朋友來講如果有感受到這個好處的話相對來講他在幸福的感覺就一定會只是會上升因為我們發現那麼多家的這個160幾萬家的這些"},{"start":262.128,"end":285.856,"text":"中小企業事實上開過會議的只有16萬對因為其實他們多數真的本身有點都是We are family的這樣的形態這樣子他本身他有很多彈性彈性的那一種勞資的因應的方式所以在部長這邊同仁們可以多宣導的同時"},{"start":286.716,"end":311.67,"text":"也能夠有機會去落實尤其是如果有比較具體的工會或者是針對某一些特別的狀況之下也讓我們的勞動朋友知道有這樣的權益可以試著去爭取因為我們也從這個貴單位就是貴部所呈現的這個勞資會議的流程圖裡面看到的確這些都已經具備了"},{"start":312.423,"end":312.623,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":329.807,"end":351.76,"text":"就是不要讓一般的我們的勞動朋友認為說如果是只有30人以上才能做這些事情那30人以下好像就比較有他的困難度存在這個部分就是要呈現我剛剛一直在提到的讓我們的勞動朋友有感受到"},{"start":353.681,"end":373.924,"text":"就很關心他能夠感受到我們這些在工作過程當中那種被關心被照顧的感覺我想如果有這樣的感覺出來或者是有這樣的事實存在的時候這種勞動的這些呈現就不會有那麼明顯的會因為他覺得這個工作環境不適合他而離開這個職場"},{"start":375.885,"end":392.816,"text":"這部分就麻煩部長還有同仁們一起來設法來改善好不好好謝謝委員會這樣講其實是因為沿街的就是所謂的離線權離線權這是一個未來一定要面對的問題"},{"start":394.677,"end":420.635,"text":"因為3CC產品的這些越來越發達還有我們不管是在這個資訊或者是相關的這些設備還有使用越來越多那澳洲他們已經讓他們的這個離線權可以透過立法的方式來執行那歐盟其實是最早開始法國更是率先通過了離線權的法案"},{"start":422.616,"end":437.744,"text":"包括德國美國也陸續的在執行當中離線權的意思就是說當所有的同仁離開他正常的工作時間以後如果接到了相關透過這些資訊"},{"start":438.884,"end":465.631,"text":"處理的模式希望能夠增加工作的不管是項目也好或時間也好那如何能夠有好的方法來避免或者是來讓這樣的處理可以更為完整那不知道部長針對這個離線權的看法是怎麼樣未來勞動部有沒有什麼樣的態度來面對這個一定會碰到的這個問題因為這個會讓我們剛所提到那個幸福的感覺是不一樣的"},{"start":466.929,"end":480.559,"text":"市委員我們其實關於離線權當然我們是支持勞工要在這裡面取得他應有的權益啦所以我們其實有指引的就是你如果下班以後你用來"},{"start":482.4,"end":498.113,"text":"對通知你的員工要加班具體要求加班的話那員工是可以拿這個東西去跟勞動局主張說你應該給付我加班費的因為我們知道其實台北市啊台北市他們已經針對勞工的離線權"},{"start":500.274,"end":526.213,"text":"開始做一些應變處理措施甚至他會要求僱主下班傳訊算假班而且這個會員還是一分鐘做計算高雄市好像也對於這樣離線權也有一些想法跟動作我相信主管機關部長這邊如果能夠及早也把這樣的方法或者是未來要面對的部分能夠及早讓"},{"start":528.294,"end":554.474,"text":"民眾更知道他未來面對這個離線權可以怎麼處理的話應該有很好的一個指導作用是謝謝委員不過就是說這個需要同時對勞資雙方都要宣導對免得對就要不然會造成很多對所以重點就是說不管是勞方或資方應該共同來面對這樣的問題而不是單純是要求勞方或資方要去獨自面對問題"},{"start":556.069,"end":569.158,"text":"對是當然這其實也可以視為是一種彈性工作的形態的變化那當然我們這個我們來研究是對這個跟傳統的工時的計算那之間如何的來"},{"start":571.639,"end":599.551,"text":"所以因為勞動部基本上就是要照顧廣泛的勞工的權益嘛所以當然我們也不希望說因為在這個照顧這個勞工勞動朋友的權益的同時會影響到各位的生產力或者是相關的影響這是同時要兼顧只是因為隨著這個時代的進步當然很多的事情我們要重新的面對對對對是那下一個部分就是要建構這個友善的生養環境"},{"start":601.852,"end":620.513,"text":"其實我們也很了解針對團性育嬰假我們在今年的5月9日開始試辦不知道到目前為止將近5個多月的試辦期間有89個公司單位的參與有沒有初步的成果出來可以提供給大家做參考"},{"start":622.074,"end":629.838,"text":"對跟委員報告我們10月11號也有召開這個的期中座談會那麼我們到9月30號有統計有短期育嬰留庭這一種有166件那我們座談會召開的結果"},{"start":637.321,"end":637.461,"text":"王正旭"},{"start":655.643,"end":671.33,"text":"那他也怕說相關的專業人員會不會有這工作停掉了要回去恢復的問題等等這些啦這是實際執行上的問題那麼我們年底就會結束了所以我們會出一個檢討報告然後下一步怎麼走我們那再來跟委員報告"},{"start":672.15,"end":689.096,"text":"所以等有結果以後才會知道什麼時候會正式上路對對對不過我們的育嬰留艇成效非常好就是那個快撞的六個月的那個先對那個執行成效是非常好尤其是男性"},{"start":689.776,"end":689.796,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:47:09 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10:59:05","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155539,"gazette":{"lineno":722,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（10時47分）謝謝主席，我們有請何部長。"],["主席：何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好，謝謝您早上提供的十大重點業務報告，其中有很多的亮點，大家應該都會很謝謝勞動部對於我們本地勞工，同時也兼顧到外地移工各方面生活保障的措施。"],["何部長佩珊：是，謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：還有如何能夠提高他們在幫助臺灣、協助提供勞動的過程當中所需要的各種項目。另外今天想要跟部長請教，除了這些基本生活保障的同時，有沒有機會讓我們的勞動朋友有幸福的感覺？"],["何部長佩珊：是，請委員指教。"],["王委員正旭：這是今天跟部長來互相討論的地方。其實我們也可以知道根據我們現在勞基法的一些規範、規定，不管是在針對雙週、八週或者是四週變形工時、延長工作時間等等，在事業單位有工會的時候，就必須要有一個好的勞資會議的同意才能夠去根據這個需要來做一些調整，如果沒有的話，就需要多了解看看這六項彈性措施。目前依照勞基法第七十五條的規定，如果沒有辦法遵守的時候就有罰則，這是由各地主管機關可以來做，對雇主進行行政罰則，不知道到目前為止，有沒有相關的資料或是統計來知道因為有違反這六項規定而受到影響的一些案件？這部分不知道部長有沒有相關的資料可以提供給我們當參考？"],["何部長佩珊：是，委員，我們勞資會議的舉辦當然也是必須考慮到企業型態，因為我們中小企業實在太多了，98%是中小企業，它對於勞資會議的機制沒有很了解，所以我們還要再宣導、再多加強，還有另一方面是那種微型企業、5人以下的，甚至連勞保承保都不成立這樣子，他們那一種型態會變成什麼呢？他的雇主通常也是員工，就是雇主和員工之間簡直是一家人，家庭類的一種方式，這種型態也很多，所以你也不能說他們這種就不是，他們其實也是另外一種另類的勞資會議，這種還滿多的，所以我們必須要針對這些不同樣態的企業型態來盤點狀況。"],["王委員正旭：的確實務面有它困難的地方，依照規定，勞資會議開完會以後還要做紀錄，如果沒有完整紀錄的話，可能就要面臨沒有依照規定處理勞資會議以後所要達到的目標，這的確是一個很不容易的事情。可是不容易的事情如果有好的方法，我們也期待能夠達到我剛剛所提到的，給我們這些勞動朋友有幸福的感覺，代表勞方、資方之間是透過一些共同的方法，討論出對於勞工朋友有更好保障的工作內容。因為我們知道事實上……"],["何部長佩珊：我們多來輔導，應該要多來輔導、宣導。"],["王委員正旭：對勞方、勞動朋友來講，如果有感受到這個好處的話，相對來講，幸福感覺指數就一定會上升。"],["何部長佩珊：當然。"],["王委員正旭：因為我們發現那麼多家、一百六十幾萬家的這些中小企業，事實上開過會議的只有16萬，不到10%。"],["何部長佩珊：對，因為其實他們多數本身都是有點We are family這樣的型態，它本身有很多彈性的那種勞資因應方式。"],["王委員正旭：我也期待部長與同仁們可以在多宣導的同時，也能夠有機會去落實，尤其是如果有比較具體的工會，或者是針對某一些特別的狀況之下，也讓我們的勞動朋友知道有這個權益可以試著去爭取。因為我們也從貴單位、貴部所呈現的勞資會議流程圖裡面看到，的確這些都已經具備了，也可以有效地去成立，也可以根據這個流程來召開。只是我們在執行上有一些問題或困難的話，未來如何能夠去改善或者是改變這些需求，不要讓我們的勞動朋友認為只有30人以上才能做這些事情，3人以下好像就比較有困難度存在，所以這個部分就是要呈現我剛剛一直提到的。"],["何部長佩珊：我們多來宣傳，做圖卡宣傳。"],["王委員正旭：讓我們的勞動朋友感受到被關心，他能夠感受到在工作過程當中被關心、被照顧的感覺，如果有這樣的感覺出來或者是有這樣的事實存在的時候，這種勞動的呈現就不會有那麼明顯的會因為他覺得這個工作環境不適合他，而離開這個職場。這部分就麻煩部長，還有同仁們一起來設法改善，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。"],["王委員正旭：至於會這樣講，其實是因為連接的就是所謂的離線權，這是一個未來一定要面對的問題，因為3C產品越來越發達，還有不管是在資訊或是這些相關設備的使用越來越多，澳洲已經讓離線權可以透過立法的方式來執行，歐盟其實是最早開始的，法國更是率先通過了離線權法案，包括德國、美國也陸續地在執行當中。離線權的意思就是當所有的同仁離開正常工作時間以後，如果接到了相關透過這些資訊處理的模式，希望能夠增加工作不管是項目也好或時間也好，如何能夠有好的方法來避免，或者是讓這樣的處理可以更為完整。不知道部長針對離線權的看法是怎麼樣？未來勞動部有沒有什麼樣的態度來面對這個一定會碰到的問題？因為這個會讓我們剛剛所提到的那個幸福的感覺是不一樣的。"],["何部長佩珊：其實關於離線權，當然我們是支持勞工要在這裡面取得他應有的權益，所以我們其實是有指引的，你如果下班以後用LINE通知你的員工要加班，具體要求加班的話，員工是可以拿這個東西去跟勞動局主張你應該給付我加班費的。"],["王委員正旭：因為我知道其實臺北市已經針對勞工的離線權開始做一些應變處理措施，甚至它會要求雇主下班傳訊算加班，而且這個費用還是以分鐘作計算；高雄市好像對於離線權也有一些想法跟動作。我相信主管機關、部長這邊如果能夠及早把這些方法，或者是未來要面對的部分，能夠及早讓民眾更知道他未來面對離線權可以怎麼處理的話，應該有很好的指導作用。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝委員，不過這個需要同時對勞資雙方都要宣導，不然會造成很多紛爭。"],["王委員正旭：重點就是不管是勞方或資方應該共同來面對這樣的問題，而不是單純要求勞方或資方去獨自面對問題。"],["何部長佩珊：當然，這其實也可以視為是一種彈性工作型態的變化，我們來研究，這與傳統工時的計算之間如何的來……"],["王委員正旭：勞動部基本上就是要照顧廣泛勞工的權益，所以當然我們也不希望因為在照顧勞動朋友權益的同時，會影響到生產力或者產生相關的影響，這是同時要兼顧的，只是因為隨著時代的進步，很多的事情我們要重新面對。"],["何部長佩珊：當然。"],["王委員正旭：下一個部分就是要建構友善的生養環境。其實我們也很瞭解，針對彈性育嬰假，我們在今年5月9日開始試辦，到目前為止將近五個多月的試辦期間，有89個公私單位參與，不知道有沒有初步的成果出來，可以提供給大家做參考？"],["何部長佩珊：有，跟委員報告，我們10月11日也有召開期中座談會，統計到9月30日短期育嬰留停的有166件，據我們座談會召開的結果，坦白說，在企業這一端會抱怨它的人力還是空缺，都是以同仁來支援，這會造成職場上的緊張，也會有這種問題，它還是會擔心影響公司的營運。雖然短天期是屬於留職停薪的性質，它也怕相關的專業人員會不會有工作停掉了又要回去恢復的問題等等，這是實際執行上的問題。那麼我們年底就會結束了，所以我們會出一個檢討報告，下一步怎麼走我們再來跟委員報告。"],["王委員正旭：所以等有結果以後才會知道什麼時候會正式上路？"],["何部長佩珊：對，不過我們的育嬰留停成效非常好，就是塊狀的、6個月的執行成效非常好，尤其是男性，申請量非常的大。"],["王委員正旭：那個是可以預期，而且真的會讓這些勞動朋友有感、有幸福的感覺。","最後，有關於臺美21世紀貿易倡議，簡短詢問有關於遠洋漁工使用WiFi的權益問題，因為時間的關係，我再另外利用時間請教部長，謝謝。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","接下來請林淑芬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}}