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\"謝\"}]}, {\"start\": 389.366, \"end\": 391.508, \"text\": \"原景基金會和亞太和平研究基金會這兩個基金會我們一般認知算是國安局的外圍的智庫\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 389.366, \"end\": 389.466, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"景\", \"start\": 389.466, \"end\": 389.486, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 389.486, \"end\": 389.506, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 389.506, \"end\": 389.606, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 389.606, \"end\": 389.726, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 389.726, \"end\": 389.826, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 389.826, \"end\": 389.967, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 389.967, \"end\": 390.087, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 390.087, \"end\": 390.207, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 390.207, \"end\": 390.287, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 390.287, \"end\": 390.327, \"score\": 0.462}, {\"word\": \"金\", 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391.187, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 391.187, \"end\": 391.308, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"圍\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 391.308, \"end\": 391.488, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 391.488, \"end\": 391.508, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}]}, {\"start\": 410.783, \"end\": 434.573, \"text\": \"沒有,他們是民間的社團那國安局跟其他政府單位一樣跟這兩個基金會有一些委託研究的關係那員警基金會跟亞太和平研究基金會他們的預算是哪裡來的?還有每年有編列預算給他們嗎?還是藉由不同部會的委託案維持它的運作那國安局有沒有委託這兩個單位在做相關研究的計劃案呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 410.783, \"end\": 410.943, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 410.943, \"end\": 411.083, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 411.083, \"end\": 411.343, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 411.343, \"end\": 411.803, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 411.803, \"end\": 412.284, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 412.284, \"end\": 413.244, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": 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--> 00:00:11,418\n謝謝主席有請局長局長請主席林委員早\n\n2\n00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:32,355\n局長早首先先跟局長請教一些時事的問題用賴清德總統最新的主國論的說法前兩天中共在我們的主國中華民國的海空域舉行了環台軍演國防部當然是全程都有緊盯那國安局是不是也有掌控\n\n3\n00:00:33,075 --> 00:00:48,941\n有,我們跟國防部都保持密切的聯繫我們甚至互派人員在掌握中共軍事相關的動態那一開始也跟陳永康委員有報告到我們大概在演習之前透過中共相關基建活動的部署\n\n4\n00:00:49,321 --> 00:01:12,255\n那已經有預判到可能會有怎麼樣樣態的演習那請教局長一下因為這次中共的軍演有一些比較奇怪的地方跟以前比較不太一樣的就是說沒有公佈演習的具體位置還有沒有公佈演習的時間的範圍還有沒有公佈演習的性質然後這次除了這樣環台軍演之外也是中共海警首次實施了環島的巡航管控那請問局長\n\n5\n00:01:16,617 --> 00:01:43,849\n這是不是在為以後有可能發生的封鎖戰做演練呢?也就是說中國企圖以執法難解為名行封鎖之時同時可以用軍隊作為支撐的力量避免落入發起軍事行動的口實還有一個本席覺得比較奇怪的就是太巧合了就是在軍演的那一天那時候那麼剛好有一個大陸的偷渡客在金門上岸被盾\n\n6\n00:01:44,269 --> 00:02:01,094\n那是不是同時會有一個軍演還有海警的巡航還有偷渡客複雜的情況那據我這樣觀察那是不是就是中國在測試台灣能不能同時處理從軍方到民間的多樣態威脅那局長你的看法是怎樣\n\n7\n00:02:02,334 --> 00:02:21,223\n非常謝謝委員剛剛分享的觀察那這一次的軍演我們確實有跟過去的軍演來做一個比較那我一開始也跟媒體朋友說明這軍演的時間是比較短的事實上他有講時間就是10月14號那以我們比照他們過去對外說明的我們的觀察經驗來講應該就是一天的演習\n\n8\n00:02:23,924 --> 00:02:38,461\n第二點是他們的演習區域範圍．比起過去的幾次演習來講．範圍是有比較小．而且他的範圍特別劃定在我們重要港口的外圍．這是剛剛有其他委員說．這是不是有所謂藥域藥港封鎖\n\n9\n00:02:38,541 --> 00:02:38,641\n主席\n\n10\n00:02:54,488 --> 00:03:15,878\n外圍部分剛剛張署長也提到了有12艘的海警船那事實上還要再加上東引跟馬祖再各2艘再加4艘那所以整體在演習過程當中確實是運用海警船來進行一些灰色地帶的洗腦那主要的目的可能就在凸顯他對於台海的實質的管控權\n\n11\n00:03:16,678 --> 00:03:36,149\n所以我們在注意的是除了軍事的脅迫以外中共對於這種法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰的操作也是我們這一波在因應中共演習過程當中另外一個戰場那我今天也在業務報告中看到說你們多少提到就是你們有包括COVID-19之後中國的經濟復甦已經不如預期了\n\n12\n00:03:38,810 --> 00:03:40,311\n中共對於又不斷的收緊安全管控導致民生就是人民的生活越來越苦那我想請問局長在這樣狀況下你認為\n\n13\n00:03:57,202 --> 00:04:22,777\n是不是又會繼續出現有一些投奔自由台灣的中共偷渡客呢是不是會持續發生因為我最近發現對岸偷渡到不管是偷渡到金門還是偷渡到台灣這種案例不少根本就是已經開始現象化的趨勢而且台灣現在都沒有接納政治難民的法源依據然後這些偷渡客裡面可能有一些握有重要情資的像是六月偷渡來的阮芳永\n\n14\n00:04:23,837 --> 00:04:48,225\n當過解放軍的潛艦的艦長對解放軍的潛艦的戰術戰法他一定是非常的熟悉但是從逮捕收容起訴到判決偷渡客的過程都沒有國安局能夠插手的地方那想請問局長如果有這樣重要情資的偷渡客那國安局有沒有辦法掌握還有局長要怎麼判斷這些偷渡客是來打探情資的呢還是來投誠的呢\n\n15\n00:04:50,006 --> 00:05:06,901\n好就那個整個中共內部的經濟情勢確實像委員所提到的他是處在一個比較低檔的一個狀態那雖然中共的中央提出很多的一個經濟改善的一個措施那看起來成效並沒有非常的好\n\n16\n00:05:07,341 --> 00:05:35,509\n那特別在8月份他們公布的青年失業率高達18點多%這數字已經經過美化了竟然還有18點多%的青年失業率而且8月公布還不包括9月的畢業潮所以確實看到他們現在有青年躺平的現象對於政府的一些經濟措施非常的不滿那第二點是這樣子會不會去鼓勵有一些對岸的人士到台灣來進行一些投奔自由或非法入境的一個動作\n\n17\n00:05:36,569 --> 00:06:03,864\n這部分我們也跟國安團隊有密切的注意今年為止應該就有八件這種中共中國大陸民眾來非法入境的一個狀況那一般一進來之後就要送到檢調單位來進行偵辦由地方法院來裁判是不是違反入出國管理法所以我們有一個法律機制來應處委員提到第三個重點是要是這些人來有重要的軍事情資的話那國安單位怎麼來掌握\n\n18\n00:06:04,164 --> 00:06:04,184\n好謝謝謝謝\n\n19\n00:06:29,366 --> 00:06:31,508\n原景基金會和亞太和平研究基金會這兩個基金會我們一般認知算是國安局的外圍的智庫\n\n20\n00:06:50,783 --> 00:07:14,573\n沒有,他們是民間的社團那國安局跟其他政府單位一樣跟這兩個基金會有一些委託研究的關係那員警基金會跟亞太和平研究基金會他們的預算是哪裡來的?還有每年有編列預算給他們嗎?還是藉由不同部會的委託案維持它的運作那國安局有沒有委託這兩個單位在做相關研究的計劃案呢?\n\n21\n00:07:15,433 --> 00:07:35,218\n我們有委託一些研究案給這兩個單位因為前面這個基金會他是比較涉及到國際相關的情勢或區域情勢的研判後面這個單位是比較涉及到對於中國大陸內部情勢還有一些兩岸關係的研判所以對於這兩個機構我們有一些委託合作的計畫來請他們協助我們\n\n22\n00:07:37,338 --> 00:08:05,976\n好那局長你知道這些官方和半官方的智庫其實都是在做學術研究然後應該都有學術的期刊產生譬如法務部調查局就有展望與探索的月刊國防研究院也有國防安全雙週報跟戰略與評估那同樣國安局遠景基金會也有固定發行遠景期刊然後相對來講亞太和平基金會就比較神秘你要請問局長亞太和平基金會的學術出版是什麼\n\n23\n00:08:06,616 --> 00:08:18,541\n我的印象我沒有辦法替他來說明但我的印象他們好像也有一些比較簡單的出版品也有但有沒有對外發言我要再確認一下因為我記得好像是因為沒有出版品所以\n\n24\n00:08:22,332 --> 00:08:48,132\n我現在看遠景基金會跟亞太基金會大致上其實他們是分工一個是對美一個是對中國大陸那最近來兩岸關係都陷入一個冰點了沒有辦法頻繁的到大陸交流那這個前提下是不是至少要有一些學術產生那局長能不能解釋為什麼亞太基金會最近這幾年的學術研究都是趨近零呢而且基金會這裡面的研究員平常都是在做些什麼事情\n\n25\n00:08:48,792 --> 00:09:13,533\n因為他是民間的單位我不適合來替他做說明那我們是跟政府其他單位一樣來做一些委託那特別強調是一些學術的委託的計畫因為也跟委員報告我們一般不太特別去強調本局、國安局跟外面單位的關係因為這很有可能會讓這個單位遭到中共相關的制裁或相關後續動作的干擾所以請委員能夠理解\n\n26\n00:09:13,993 --> 00:09:26,043\n好,所以你們就是只委託他們在做一些相關的計劃案,然後他們是民間的就對了?對,學術的單位,是。那我再最後問一個問題,就是想請教一下,就是關於\n\n27\n00:09:28,973 --> 00:09:29,754\n國安局有掌握嗎?還有朝鮮半島的穩定也會牽動到台灣的安全\n\n28\n00:09:58,636 --> 00:10:22,249\n這樣的話請教局長你認為南北韓關係會不會繼續惡化甚至爆發衝突呢因為剛剛黃委員也在指教這個議題我們有在關注因為確實從去年八九月之後北韓的動作就非常的多那我們會持續的來關注北韓會不會進一步冒進的動作特別因為接下來這個月是美國大選期間那怕北韓會故意製造一些可能的衝突事件\n\n29\n00:10:23,029 --> 00:10:23,229\n謝謝林憶君召委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n950\t11418\t謝謝主席有請局長局長請主席林委員早\n13100\t32355\t局長早首先先跟局長請教一些時事的問題用賴清德總統最新的主國論的說法前兩天中共在我們的主國中華民國的海空域舉行了環台軍演國防部當然是全程都有緊盯那國安局是不是也有掌控\n33075\t48941\t有,我們跟國防部都保持密切的聯繫我們甚至互派人員在掌握中共軍事相關的動態那一開始也跟陳永康委員有報告到我們大概在演習之前透過中共相關基建活動的部署\n49321\t72255\t那已經有預判到可能會有怎麼樣樣態的演習那請教局長一下因為這次中共的軍演有一些比較奇怪的地方跟以前比較不太一樣的就是說沒有公佈演習的具體位置還有沒有公佈演習的時間的範圍還有沒有公佈演習的性質然後這次除了這樣環台軍演之外也是中共海警首次實施了環島的巡航管控那請問局長\n76617\t103849\t這是不是在為以後有可能發生的封鎖戰做演練呢?也就是說中國企圖以執法難解為名行封鎖之時同時可以用軍隊作為支撐的力量避免落入發起軍事行動的口實還有一個本席覺得比較奇怪的就是太巧合了就是在軍演的那一天那時候那麼剛好有一個大陸的偷渡客在金門上岸被盾\n104269\t121094\t那是不是同時會有一個軍演還有海警的巡航還有偷渡客複雜的情況那據我這樣觀察那是不是就是中國在測試台灣能不能同時處理從軍方到民間的多樣態威脅那局長你的看法是怎樣\n122334\t141223\t非常謝謝委員剛剛分享的觀察那這一次的軍演我們確實有跟過去的軍演來做一個比較那我一開始也跟媒體朋友說明這軍演的時間是比較短的事實上他有講時間就是10月14號那以我們比照他們過去對外說明的我們的觀察經驗來講應該就是一天的演習\n143924\t158461\t第二點是他們的演習區域範圍．比起過去的幾次演習來講．範圍是有比較小．而且他的範圍特別劃定在我們重要港口的外圍．這是剛剛有其他委員說．這是不是有所謂藥域藥港封鎖\n158541\t158641\t主席\n174488\t195878\t外圍部分剛剛張署長也提到了有12艘的海警船那事實上還要再加上東引跟馬祖再各2艘再加4艘那所以整體在演習過程當中確實是運用海警船來進行一些灰色地帶的洗腦那主要的目的可能就在凸顯他對於台海的實質的管控權\n196678\t216149\t所以我們在注意的是除了軍事的脅迫以外中共對於這種法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰的操作也是我們這一波在因應中共演習過程當中另外一個戰場那我今天也在業務報告中看到說你們多少提到就是你們有包括COVID-19之後中國的經濟復甦已經不如預期了\n218810\t220311\t中共對於又不斷的收緊安全管控導致民生就是人民的生活越來越苦那我想請問局長在這樣狀況下你認為\n237202\t262777\t是不是又會繼續出現有一些投奔自由台灣的中共偷渡客呢是不是會持續發生因為我最近發現對岸偷渡到不管是偷渡到金門還是偷渡到台灣這種案例不少根本就是已經開始現象化的趨勢而且台灣現在都沒有接納政治難民的法源依據然後這些偷渡客裡面可能有一些握有重要情資的像是六月偷渡來的阮芳永\n263837\t288225\t當過解放軍的潛艦的艦長對解放軍的潛艦的戰術戰法他一定是非常的熟悉但是從逮捕收容起訴到判決偷渡客的過程都沒有國安局能夠插手的地方那想請問局長如果有這樣重要情資的偷渡客那國安局有沒有辦法掌握還有局長要怎麼判斷這些偷渡客是來打探情資的呢還是來投誠的呢\n290006\t306901\t好就那個整個中共內部的經濟情勢確實像委員所提到的他是處在一個比較低檔的一個狀態那雖然中共的中央提出很多的一個經濟改善的一個措施那看起來成效並沒有非常的好\n307341\t335509\t那特別在8月份他們公布的青年失業率高達18點多%這數字已經經過美化了竟然還有18點多%的青年失業率而且8月公布還不包括9月的畢業潮所以確實看到他們現在有青年躺平的現象對於政府的一些經濟措施非常的不滿那第二點是這樣子會不會去鼓勵有一些對岸的人士到台灣來進行一些投奔自由或非法入境的一個動作\n336569\t363864\t這部分我們也跟國安團隊有密切的注意今年為止應該就有八件這種中共中國大陸民眾來非法入境的一個狀況那一般一進來之後就要送到檢調單位來進行偵辦由地方法院來裁判是不是違反入出國管理法所以我們有一個法律機制來應處委員提到第三個重點是要是這些人來有重要的軍事情資的話那國安單位怎麼來掌握\n364164\t364184\t好 謝謝 謝謝\n389366\t391508\t原景基金會和亞太和平研究基金會這兩個基金會我們一般認知算是國安局的外圍的智庫\n410783\t434573\t沒有,他們是民間的社團那國安局跟其他政府單位一樣跟這兩個基金會有一些委託研究的關係那員警基金會跟亞太和平研究基金會他們的預算是哪裡來的?還有每年有編列預算給他們嗎?還是藉由不同部會的委託案維持它的運作那國安局有沒有委託這兩個單位在做相關研究的計劃案呢?\n435433\t455218\t我們有委託一些研究案給這兩個單位因為前面這個基金會他是比較涉及到國際相關的情勢或區域情勢的研判後面這個單位是比較涉及到對於中國大陸內部情勢還有一些兩岸關係的研判所以對於這兩個機構我們有一些委託合作的計畫來請他們協助我們\n457338\t485976\t好那局長你知道這些官方和半官方的智庫其實都是在做學術研究然後應該都有學術的期刊產生譬如法務部調查局就有展望與探索的月刊國防研究院也有國防安全雙週報跟戰略與評估那同樣國安局遠景基金會也有固定發行遠景期刊然後相對來講亞太和平基金會就比較神秘你要請問局長亞太和平基金會的學術出版是什麼\n486616\t498541\t我的印象我沒有辦法替他來說明但我的印象他們好像也有一些比較簡單的出版品也有但有沒有對外發言我要再確認一下因為我記得好像是因為沒有出版品所以\n502332\t528132\t我現在看遠景基金會跟亞太基金會大致上其實他們是分工一個是對美一個是對中國大陸那最近來兩岸關係都陷入一個冰點了沒有辦法頻繁的到大陸交流那這個前提下是不是至少要有一些學術產生那局長能不能解釋為什麼亞太基金會最近這幾年的學術研究都是趨近零呢而且基金會這裡面的研究員平常都是在做些什麼事情\n528792\t553533\t因為他是民間的單位我不適合來替他做說明那我們是跟政府其他單位一樣來做一些委託那特別強調是一些學術的委託的計畫因為也跟委員報告我們一般不太特別去強調本局、國安局跟外面單位的關係因為這很有可能會讓這個單位遭到中共相關的制裁或相關後續動作的干擾所以請委員能夠理解\n553993\t566043\t好,所以你們就是只委託他們在做一些相關的計劃案,然後他們是民間的就對了?對,學術的單位,是。那我再最後問一個問題,就是想請教一下,就是關於\n568973\t569754\t國安局有掌握嗎?還有朝鮮半島的穩定也會牽動到台灣的安全\n598636\t622249\t這樣的話請教局長你認為南北韓關係會不會繼續惡化甚至爆發衝突呢因為剛剛黃委員也在指教這個議題我們有在關注因為確實從去年八九月之後北韓的動作就非常的多那我們會持續的來關注北韓會不會進一步冒進的動作特別因為接下來這個月是美國大選期間那怕北韓會故意製造一些可能的衝突事件\n623029\t623229\t謝謝林憶君召委\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請局長局長請主席林委員早\n局長早首先先跟局長請教一些時事的問題用賴清德總統最新的主國論的說法前兩天中共在我們的主國中華民國的海空域舉行了環台軍演國防部當然是全程都有緊盯那國安局是不是也有掌控\n有,我們跟國防部都保持密切的聯繫我們甚至互派人員在掌握中共軍事相關的動態那一開始也跟陳永康委員有報告到我們大概在演習之前透過中共相關基建活動的部署\n那已經有預判到可能會有怎麼樣樣態的演習那請教局長一下因為這次中共的軍演有一些比較奇怪的地方跟以前比較不太一樣的就是說沒有公佈演習的具體位置還有沒有公佈演習的時間的範圍還有沒有公佈演習的性質然後這次除了這樣環台軍演之外也是中共海警首次實施了環島的巡航管控那請問局長\n這是不是在為以後有可能發生的封鎖戰做演練呢?也就是說中國企圖以執法難解為名行封鎖之時同時可以用軍隊作為支撐的力量避免落入發起軍事行動的口實還有一個本席覺得比較奇怪的就是太巧合了就是在軍演的那一天那時候那麼剛好有一個大陸的偷渡客在金門上岸被盾\n那是不是同時會有一個軍演還有海警的巡航還有偷渡客複雜的情況那據我這樣觀察那是不是就是中國在測試台灣能不能同時處理從軍方到民間的多樣態威脅那局長你的看法是怎樣\n非常謝謝委員剛剛分享的觀察那這一次的軍演我們確實有跟過去的軍演來做一個比較那我一開始也跟媒體朋友說明這軍演的時間是比較短的事實上他有講時間就是10月14號那以我們比照他們過去對外說明的我們的觀察經驗來講應該就是一天的演習\n第二點是他們的演習區域範圍．比起過去的幾次演習來講．範圍是有比較小．而且他的範圍特別劃定在我們重要港口的外圍．這是剛剛有其他委員說．這是不是有所謂藥域藥港封鎖\n主席\n外圍部分剛剛張署長也提到了有12艘的海警船那事實上還要再加上東引跟馬祖再各2艘再加4艘那所以整體在演習過程當中確實是運用海警船來進行一些灰色地帶的洗腦那主要的目的可能就在凸顯他對於台海的實質的管控權\n所以我們在注意的是除了軍事的脅迫以外中共對於這種法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰的操作也是我們這一波在因應中共演習過程當中另外一個戰場那我今天也在業務報告中看到說你們多少提到就是你們有包括COVID-19之後中國的經濟復甦已經不如預期了\n中共對於又不斷的收緊安全管控導致民生就是人民的生活越來越苦那我想請問局長在這樣狀況下你認為\n是不是又會繼續出現有一些投奔自由台灣的中共偷渡客呢是不是會持續發生因為我最近發現對岸偷渡到不管是偷渡到金門還是偷渡到台灣這種案例不少根本就是已經開始現象化的趨勢而且台灣現在都沒有接納政治難民的法源依據然後這些偷渡客裡面可能有一些握有重要情資的像是六月偷渡來的阮芳永\n當過解放軍的潛艦的艦長對解放軍的潛艦的戰術戰法他一定是非常的熟悉但是從逮捕收容起訴到判決偷渡客的過程都沒有國安局能夠插手的地方那想請問局長如果有這樣重要情資的偷渡客那國安局有沒有辦法掌握還有局長要怎麼判斷這些偷渡客是來打探情資的呢還是來投誠的呢\n好就那個整個中共內部的經濟情勢確實像委員所提到的他是處在一個比較低檔的一個狀態那雖然中共的中央提出很多的一個經濟改善的一個措施那看起來成效並沒有非常的好\n那特別在8月份他們公布的青年失業率高達18點多%這數字已經經過美化了竟然還有18點多%的青年失業率而且8月公布還不包括9月的畢業潮所以確實看到他們現在有青年躺平的現象對於政府的一些經濟措施非常的不滿那第二點是這樣子會不會去鼓勵有一些對岸的人士到台灣來進行一些投奔自由或非法入境的一個動作\n這部分我們也跟國安團隊有密切的注意今年為止應該就有八件這種中共中國大陸民眾來非法入境的一個狀況那一般一進來之後就要送到檢調單位來進行偵辦由地方法院來裁判是不是違反入出國管理法所以我們有一個法律機制來應處委員提到第三個重點是要是這些人來有重要的軍事情資的話那國安單位怎麼來掌握\n好 謝謝 謝謝\n原景基金會和亞太和平研究基金會這兩個基金會我們一般認知算是國安局的外圍的智庫\n沒有,他們是民間的社團那國安局跟其他政府單位一樣跟這兩個基金會有一些委託研究的關係那員警基金會跟亞太和平研究基金會他們的預算是哪裡來的?還有每年有編列預算給他們嗎?還是藉由不同部會的委託案維持它的運作那國安局有沒有委託這兩個單位在做相關研究的計劃案呢?\n我們有委託一些研究案給這兩個單位因為前面這個基金會他是比較涉及到國際相關的情勢或區域情勢的研判後面這個單位是比較涉及到對於中國大陸內部情勢還有一些兩岸關係的研判所以對於這兩個機構我們有一些委託合作的計畫來請他們協助我們\n好那局長你知道這些官方和半官方的智庫其實都是在做學術研究然後應該都有學術的期刊產生譬如法務部調查局就有展望與探索的月刊國防研究院也有國防安全雙週報跟戰略與評估那同樣國安局遠景基金會也有固定發行遠景期刊然後相對來講亞太和平基金會就比較神秘你要請問局長亞太和平基金會的學術出版是什麼\n我的印象我沒有辦法替他來說明但我的印象他們好像也有一些比較簡單的出版品也有但有沒有對外發言我要再確認一下因為我記得好像是因為沒有出版品所以\n我現在看遠景基金會跟亞太基金會大致上其實他們是分工一個是對美一個是對中國大陸那最近來兩岸關係都陷入一個冰點了沒有辦法頻繁的到大陸交流那這個前提下是不是至少要有一些學術產生那局長能不能解釋為什麼亞太基金會最近這幾年的學術研究都是趨近零呢而且基金會這裡面的研究員平常都是在做些什麼事情\n因為他是民間的單位我不適合來替他做說明那我們是跟政府其他單位一樣來做一些委託那特別強調是一些學術的委託的計畫因為也跟委員報告我們一般不太特別去強調本局、國安局跟外面單位的關係因為這很有可能會讓這個單位遭到中共相關的制裁或相關後續動作的干擾所以請委員能夠理解\n好,所以你們就是只委託他們在做一些相關的計劃案,然後他們是民間的就對了?對,學術的單位,是。那我再最後問一個問題,就是想請教一下,就是關於\n國安局有掌握嗎?還有朝鮮半島的穩定也會牽動到台灣的安全\n這樣的話請教局長你認為南北韓關係會不會繼續惡化甚至爆發衝突呢因為剛剛黃委員也在指教這個議題我們有在關注因為確實從去年八九月之後北韓的動作就非常的多那我們會持續的來關注北韓會不會進一步冒進的動作特別因為接下來這個月是美國大選期間那怕北韓會故意製造一些可能的衝突事件\n謝謝林憶君召委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.950 --> 00:11.418\n謝謝主席有請局長局長請主席林委員早\n\n00:13.100 --> 00:32.355\n局長早首先先跟局長請教一些時事的問題用賴清德總統最新的主國論的說法前兩天中共在我們的主國中華民國的海空域舉行了環台軍演國防部當然是全程都有緊盯那國安局是不是也有掌控\n\n00:33.075 --> 00:48.941\n有,我們跟國防部都保持密切的聯繫我們甚至互派人員在掌握中共軍事相關的動態那一開始也跟陳永康委員有報告到我們大概在演習之前透過中共相關基建活動的部署\n\n00:49.321 --> 01:12.255\n那已經有預判到可能會有怎麼樣樣態的演習那請教局長一下因為這次中共的軍演有一些比較奇怪的地方跟以前比較不太一樣的就是說沒有公佈演習的具體位置還有沒有公佈演習的時間的範圍還有沒有公佈演習的性質然後這次除了這樣環台軍演之外也是中共海警首次實施了環島的巡航管控那請問局長\n\n01:16.617 --> 01:43.849\n這是不是在為以後有可能發生的封鎖戰做演練呢?也就是說中國企圖以執法難解為名行封鎖之時同時可以用軍隊作為支撐的力量避免落入發起軍事行動的口實還有一個本席覺得比較奇怪的就是太巧合了就是在軍演的那一天那時候那麼剛好有一個大陸的偷渡客在金門上岸被盾\n\n01:44.269 --> 02:01.094\n那是不是同時會有一個軍演還有海警的巡航還有偷渡客複雜的情況那據我這樣觀察那是不是就是中國在測試台灣能不能同時處理從軍方到民間的多樣態威脅那局長你的看法是怎樣\n\n02:02.334 --> 02:21.223\n非常謝謝委員剛剛分享的觀察那這一次的軍演我們確實有跟過去的軍演來做一個比較那我一開始也跟媒體朋友說明這軍演的時間是比較短的事實上他有講時間就是10月14號那以我們比照他們過去對外說明的我們的觀察經驗來講應該就是一天的演習\n\n02:23.924 --> 02:38.461\n第二點是他們的演習區域範圍．比起過去的幾次演習來講．範圍是有比較小．而且他的範圍特別劃定在我們重要港口的外圍．這是剛剛有其他委員說．這是不是有所謂藥域藥港封鎖\n\n02:38.541 --> 02:38.641\n主席\n\n02:54.488 --> 03:15.878\n外圍部分剛剛張署長也提到了有12艘的海警船那事實上還要再加上東引跟馬祖再各2艘再加4艘那所以整體在演習過程當中確實是運用海警船來進行一些灰色地帶的洗腦那主要的目的可能就在凸顯他對於台海的實質的管控權\n\n03:16.678 --> 03:36.149\n所以我們在注意的是除了軍事的脅迫以外中共對於這種法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰的操作也是我們這一波在因應中共演習過程當中另外一個戰場那我今天也在業務報告中看到說你們多少提到就是你們有包括COVID-19之後中國的經濟復甦已經不如預期了\n\n03:38.810 --> 03:40.311\n中共對於又不斷的收緊安全管控導致民生就是人民的生活越來越苦那我想請問局長在這樣狀況下你認為\n\n03:57.202 --> 04:22.777\n是不是又會繼續出現有一些投奔自由台灣的中共偷渡客呢是不是會持續發生因為我最近發現對岸偷渡到不管是偷渡到金門還是偷渡到台灣這種案例不少根本就是已經開始現象化的趨勢而且台灣現在都沒有接納政治難民的法源依據然後這些偷渡客裡面可能有一些握有重要情資的像是六月偷渡來的阮芳永\n\n04:23.837 --> 04:48.225\n當過解放軍的潛艦的艦長對解放軍的潛艦的戰術戰法他一定是非常的熟悉但是從逮捕收容起訴到判決偷渡客的過程都沒有國安局能夠插手的地方那想請問局長如果有這樣重要情資的偷渡客那國安局有沒有辦法掌握還有局長要怎麼判斷這些偷渡客是來打探情資的呢還是來投誠的呢\n\n04:50.006 --> 05:06.901\n好就那個整個中共內部的經濟情勢確實像委員所提到的他是處在一個比較低檔的一個狀態那雖然中共的中央提出很多的一個經濟改善的一個措施那看起來成效並沒有非常的好\n\n05:07.341 --> 05:35.509\n那特別在8月份他們公布的青年失業率高達18點多%這數字已經經過美化了竟然還有18點多%的青年失業率而且8月公布還不包括9月的畢業潮所以確實看到他們現在有青年躺平的現象對於政府的一些經濟措施非常的不滿那第二點是這樣子會不會去鼓勵有一些對岸的人士到台灣來進行一些投奔自由或非法入境的一個動作\n\n05:36.569 --> 06:03.864\n這部分我們也跟國安團隊有密切的注意今年為止應該就有八件這種中共中國大陸民眾來非法入境的一個狀況那一般一進來之後就要送到檢調單位來進行偵辦由地方法院來裁判是不是違反入出國管理法所以我們有一個法律機制來應處委員提到第三個重點是要是這些人來有重要的軍事情資的話那國安單位怎麼來掌握\n\n06:04.164 --> 06:04.184\n好謝謝謝謝\n\n06:29.366 --> 06:31.508\n原景基金會和亞太和平研究基金會這兩個基金會我們一般認知算是國安局的外圍的智庫\n\n06:50.783 --> 07:14.573\n沒有,他們是民間的社團那國安局跟其他政府單位一樣跟這兩個基金會有一些委託研究的關係那員警基金會跟亞太和平研究基金會他們的預算是哪裡來的?還有每年有編列預算給他們嗎?還是藉由不同部會的委託案維持它的運作那國安局有沒有委託這兩個單位在做相關研究的計劃案呢?\n\n07:15.433 --> 07:35.218\n我們有委託一些研究案給這兩個單位因為前面這個基金會他是比較涉及到國際相關的情勢或區域情勢的研判後面這個單位是比較涉及到對於中國大陸內部情勢還有一些兩岸關係的研判所以對於這兩個機構我們有一些委託合作的計畫來請他們協助我們\n\n07:37.338 --> 08:05.976\n好那局長你知道這些官方和半官方的智庫其實都是在做學術研究然後應該都有學術的期刊產生譬如法務部調查局就有展望與探索的月刊國防研究院也有國防安全雙週報跟戰略與評估那同樣國安局遠景基金會也有固定發行遠景期刊然後相對來講亞太和平基金會就比較神秘你要請問局長亞太和平基金會的學術出版是什麼\n\n08:06.616 --> 08:18.541\n我的印象我沒有辦法替他來說明但我的印象他們好像也有一些比較簡單的出版品也有但有沒有對外發言我要再確認一下因為我記得好像是因為沒有出版品所以\n\n08:22.332 --> 08:48.132\n我現在看遠景基金會跟亞太基金會大致上其實他們是分工一個是對美一個是對中國大陸那最近來兩岸關係都陷入一個冰點了沒有辦法頻繁的到大陸交流那這個前提下是不是至少要有一些學術產生那局長能不能解釋為什麼亞太基金會最近這幾年的學術研究都是趨近零呢而且基金會這裡面的研究員平常都是在做些什麼事情\n\n08:48.792 --> 09:13.533\n因為他是民間的單位我不適合來替他做說明那我們是跟政府其他單位一樣來做一些委託那特別強調是一些學術的委託的計畫因為也跟委員報告我們一般不太特別去強調本局、國安局跟外面單位的關係因為這很有可能會讓這個單位遭到中共相關的制裁或相關後續動作的干擾所以請委員能夠理解\n\n09:13.993 --> 09:26.043\n好,所以你們就是只委託他們在做一些相關的計劃案,然後他們是民間的就對了?對,學術的單位,是。那我再最後問一個問題,就是想請教一下,就是關於\n\n09:28.973 --> 09:29.754\n國安局有掌握嗎?還有朝鮮半島的穩定也會牽動到台灣的安全\n\n09:58.636 --> 10:22.249\n這樣的話請教局長你認為南北韓關係會不會繼續惡化甚至爆發衝突呢因為剛剛黃委員也在指教這個議題我們有在關注因為確實從去年八九月之後北韓的動作就非常的多那我們會持續的來關注北韓會不會進一步冒進的動作特別因為接下來這個月是美國大選期間那怕北韓會故意製造一些可能的衝突事件\n\n10:23.029 --> 10:23.229\n謝謝林憶君召委\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.95,"end":11.418,"text":"謝謝主席有請局長局長請主席林委員早"},{"start":13.1,"end":32.355,"text":"局長早首先先跟局長請教一些時事的問題用賴清德總統最新的主國論的說法前兩天中共在我們的主國中華民國的海空域舉行了環台軍演國防部當然是全程都有緊盯那國安局是不是也有掌控"},{"start":33.075,"end":48.941,"text":"有,我們跟國防部都保持密切的聯繫我們甚至互派人員在掌握中共軍事相關的動態那一開始也跟陳永康委員有報告到我們大概在演習之前透過中共相關基建活動的部署"},{"start":49.321,"end":72.255,"text":"那已經有預判到可能會有怎麼樣樣態的演習那請教局長一下因為這次中共的軍演有一些比較奇怪的地方跟以前比較不太一樣的就是說沒有公佈演習的具體位置還有沒有公佈演習的時間的範圍還有沒有公佈演習的性質然後這次除了這樣環台軍演之外也是中共海警首次實施了環島的巡航管控那請問局長"},{"start":76.617,"end":103.849,"text":"這是不是在為以後有可能發生的封鎖戰做演練呢?也就是說中國企圖以執法難解為名行封鎖之時同時可以用軍隊作為支撐的力量避免落入發起軍事行動的口實還有一個本席覺得比較奇怪的就是太巧合了就是在軍演的那一天那時候那麼剛好有一個大陸的偷渡客在金門上岸被盾"},{"start":104.269,"end":121.094,"text":"那是不是同時會有一個軍演還有海警的巡航還有偷渡客複雜的情況那據我這樣觀察那是不是就是中國在測試台灣能不能同時處理從軍方到民間的多樣態威脅那局長你的看法是怎樣"},{"start":122.334,"end":141.223,"text":"非常謝謝委員剛剛分享的觀察那這一次的軍演我們確實有跟過去的軍演來做一個比較那我一開始也跟媒體朋友說明這軍演的時間是比較短的事實上他有講時間就是10月14號那以我們比照他們過去對外說明的我們的觀察經驗來講應該就是一天的演習"},{"start":143.924,"end":158.461,"text":"第二點是他們的演習區域範圍．比起過去的幾次演習來講．範圍是有比較小．而且他的範圍特別劃定在我們重要港口的外圍．這是剛剛有其他委員說．這是不是有所謂藥域藥港封鎖"},{"start":158.541,"end":158.641,"text":"主席"},{"start":174.488,"end":195.878,"text":"外圍部分剛剛張署長也提到了有12艘的海警船那事實上還要再加上東引跟馬祖再各2艘再加4艘那所以整體在演習過程當中確實是運用海警船來進行一些灰色地帶的洗腦那主要的目的可能就在凸顯他對於台海的實質的管控權"},{"start":196.678,"end":216.149,"text":"所以我們在注意的是除了軍事的脅迫以外中共對於這種法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰的操作也是我們這一波在因應中共演習過程當中另外一個戰場那我今天也在業務報告中看到說你們多少提到就是你們有包括COVID-19之後中國的經濟復甦已經不如預期了"},{"start":218.81,"end":220.311,"text":"中共對於又不斷的收緊安全管控導致民生就是人民的生活越來越苦那我想請問局長在這樣狀況下你認為"},{"start":237.202,"end":262.777,"text":"是不是又會繼續出現有一些投奔自由台灣的中共偷渡客呢是不是會持續發生因為我最近發現對岸偷渡到不管是偷渡到金門還是偷渡到台灣這種案例不少根本就是已經開始現象化的趨勢而且台灣現在都沒有接納政治難民的法源依據然後這些偷渡客裡面可能有一些握有重要情資的像是六月偷渡來的阮芳永"},{"start":263.837,"end":288.225,"text":"當過解放軍的潛艦的艦長對解放軍的潛艦的戰術戰法他一定是非常的熟悉但是從逮捕收容起訴到判決偷渡客的過程都沒有國安局能夠插手的地方那想請問局長如果有這樣重要情資的偷渡客那國安局有沒有辦法掌握還有局長要怎麼判斷這些偷渡客是來打探情資的呢還是來投誠的呢"},{"start":290.006,"end":306.901,"text":"好就那個整個中共內部的經濟情勢確實像委員所提到的他是處在一個比較低檔的一個狀態那雖然中共的中央提出很多的一個經濟改善的一個措施那看起來成效並沒有非常的好"},{"start":307.341,"end":335.509,"text":"那特別在8月份他們公布的青年失業率高達18點多%這數字已經經過美化了竟然還有18點多%的青年失業率而且8月公布還不包括9月的畢業潮所以確實看到他們現在有青年躺平的現象對於政府的一些經濟措施非常的不滿那第二點是這樣子會不會去鼓勵有一些對岸的人士到台灣來進行一些投奔自由或非法入境的一個動作"},{"start":336.569,"end":363.864,"text":"這部分我們也跟國安團隊有密切的注意今年為止應該就有八件這種中共中國大陸民眾來非法入境的一個狀況那一般一進來之後就要送到檢調單位來進行偵辦由地方法院來裁判是不是違反入出國管理法所以我們有一個法律機制來應處委員提到第三個重點是要是這些人來有重要的軍事情資的話那國安單位怎麼來掌握"},{"start":364.164,"end":364.184,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":389.366,"end":391.508,"text":"原景基金會和亞太和平研究基金會這兩個基金會我們一般認知算是國安局的外圍的智庫"},{"start":410.783,"end":434.573,"text":"沒有,他們是民間的社團那國安局跟其他政府單位一樣跟這兩個基金會有一些委託研究的關係那員警基金會跟亞太和平研究基金會他們的預算是哪裡來的?還有每年有編列預算給他們嗎?還是藉由不同部會的委託案維持它的運作那國安局有沒有委託這兩個單位在做相關研究的計劃案呢?"},{"start":435.433,"end":455.218,"text":"我們有委託一些研究案給這兩個單位因為前面這個基金會他是比較涉及到國際相關的情勢或區域情勢的研判後面這個單位是比較涉及到對於中國大陸內部情勢還有一些兩岸關係的研判所以對於這兩個機構我們有一些委託合作的計畫來請他們協助我們"},{"start":457.338,"end":485.976,"text":"好那局長你知道這些官方和半官方的智庫其實都是在做學術研究然後應該都有學術的期刊產生譬如法務部調查局就有展望與探索的月刊國防研究院也有國防安全雙週報跟戰略與評估那同樣國安局遠景基金會也有固定發行遠景期刊然後相對來講亞太和平基金會就比較神秘你要請問局長亞太和平基金會的學術出版是什麼"},{"start":486.616,"end":498.541,"text":"我的印象我沒有辦法替他來說明但我的印象他們好像也有一些比較簡單的出版品也有但有沒有對外發言我要再確認一下因為我記得好像是因為沒有出版品所以"},{"start":502.332,"end":528.132,"text":"我現在看遠景基金會跟亞太基金會大致上其實他們是分工一個是對美一個是對中國大陸那最近來兩岸關係都陷入一個冰點了沒有辦法頻繁的到大陸交流那這個前提下是不是至少要有一些學術產生那局長能不能解釋為什麼亞太基金會最近這幾年的學術研究都是趨近零呢而且基金會這裡面的研究員平常都是在做些什麼事情"},{"start":528.792,"end":553.533,"text":"因為他是民間的單位我不適合來替他做說明那我們是跟政府其他單位一樣來做一些委託那特別強調是一些學術的委託的計畫因為也跟委員報告我們一般不太特別去強調本局、國安局跟外面單位的關係因為這很有可能會讓這個單位遭到中共相關的制裁或相關後續動作的干擾所以請委員能夠理解"},{"start":553.993,"end":566.043,"text":"好,所以你們就是只委託他們在做一些相關的計劃案,然後他們是民間的就對了?對,學術的單位,是。那我再最後問一個問題,就是想請教一下,就是關於"},{"start":568.973,"end":569.754,"text":"國安局有掌握嗎?還有朝鮮半島的穩定也會牽動到台灣的安全"},{"start":598.636,"end":622.249,"text":"這樣的話請教局長你認為南北韓關係會不會繼續惡化甚至爆發衝突呢因為剛剛黃委員也在指教這個議題我們有在關注因為確實從去年八九月之後北韓的動作就非常的多那我們會持續的來關注北韓會不會進一步冒進的動作特別因為接下來這個月是美國大選期間那怕北韓會故意製造一些可能的衝突事件"},{"start":623.029,"end":623.229,"text":"謝謝林憶君召委"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[35],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-35-4","title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:05:04 - 11:15:49","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","id":155546,"gazette":{"lineno":521,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時4分）謝謝主席，有請局長。"],["主席：局長請。"],["蔡局長明彥：主席、林委員早。"],["林委員憶君：局長早。首先先跟局長請教一些時事的問題，用賴清德總統最新的祖國論的說法，前兩天中共在我們的祖國中華民國的海空域舉行了環臺軍演，國防部當然是全程都有緊盯，國安局是不是也有掌控？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，我們跟國防部都保持密切地聯繫，我們甚至互派人員在掌握中共軍事相關的動態，一開始也跟陳永康委員有報告到，我們在演習之前，透過中共相關機艦活動的部署，已經有預判到可能會有怎麼樣樣態的演習。"],["林委員憶君：好。請教局長一下，因為這次中共的軍演有一些比較奇怪的地方，跟以前比較不太一樣的，就是沒有公布演習的具體位置，還有沒有公布演習的時間範圍，還有沒有公布演習的性質，然後這次除了環臺軍演之外，中共海警也首次實施環島的巡航管控，請問局長，這是不是在為以後有可能發生的封鎖戰做演練呢？也就是說，中國企圖以執法攔檢為名行封鎖之實，同時可以用軍隊作為支撐的力量，避免落入發起軍事行動的口實。還有一個本席覺得比較奇怪的，太巧合了，就是在軍演的那一天，那麼剛好有一個大陸的偷渡客在金門上岸被捕，是不是同時會有一個軍演還有海警的巡航還有偷渡客的複雜情況？據我這樣觀察，是不是中共在測試臺灣能不能同時處理從軍方到民間的多樣態威脅？局長，你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["蔡局長明彥：是，真的非常謝謝委員剛剛分享的觀察，這次的軍演，我們確實有跟過去的軍演來做一個比較，我一開始也跟媒體朋友說明，這次軍演的時間是比較短的。事實上它有講時間就是10月14號，以我們比照他們過去對外說明的，就我們的觀察經驗來講，應該就是一天的演習。第二點是他們的演習區域範圍比起過去幾次演習來講，範圍是有比較小，而且它的範圍特別劃定在我們重要港口的外圍，剛剛有其他委員說這是不是有所謂要域要港封控的作法，這也是我們觀察的重點。第三點是委員剛剛很正確地提出來，這次的軍演除了海空軍的機艦以外，它有特別動用到海警船舶來參加這次的演練，總共臺灣的外圍部分，剛剛張署長也提到了有12艘的海警船，事實上還要再加上東引跟馬祖各兩艘，再加4艘，所以整體在演習過程當中，確實是運用海警船來進行一些灰色地帶的襲擾，主要的目的可能就在凸顯它對於臺海的實質管控權。所以我們在注意的是，除了軍事脅迫以外，中共對於這種法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰的操作，也是我們這一波在因應中共演習過程當中的另外一個戰場。"],["林委員憶君：好。我今天也在業務報告中看到，你們多少提到就是包括COVID-19之後，中國的經濟復甦已經不如預期了，在高科技的領域上又被美國圍堵，還有加上中國政府現在打房的力道比較猛，所以全國的房地產幾乎都被打趴了，然後還有中共又不斷地收緊安全管控，導致民生也就是人民的生活越來越苦。我想要請問局長，在這樣的狀況下，你認為是不是又會繼續出現有一些投奔自由臺灣的中共偷渡客呢？是不是會持續發生？因為我最近發現，對岸偷渡，不管是偷渡到金門還是偷渡到臺灣，這種案例不少，根本就是已經開始現象化的趨勢，而且臺灣現在都沒有接納政治難民的法源依據，這些偷渡客裡面可能有一些握有重要情資的，像是6月偷渡來的阮芳勇當過解放軍的潛艦艦長，對解放軍潛艦的戰術戰法，他一定是非常地熟悉，但是從逮捕、收容、起訴到判決偷渡客的過程，都沒有國安局能夠插手的地方，想請問局長，如果有這樣重要情資的偷渡客，國安局有沒有辦法掌握？還有局長要怎麼判斷這些偷渡客是來打探情資的呢？還是來投誠的呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：就整個中共內部的經濟情勢，確實像委員所提到的，它是處在一個比較低檔的狀態，雖然中共中央提出很多的經濟改善措施，看起來成效並沒有非常的好，特別是8月份他們公布的青年失業率高達百分之十八點多，這數字已經經過美化竟然還有百分之十八點多的青年失業率，而且8月公布還不包括9月的畢業潮，所以確實看到他們現在有青年躺平的現象，對於政府的一些經濟措施非常的不滿。","第二點，這樣子會不會鼓勵一些對岸人士到臺灣投奔自由或非法入境，這部分我們也跟國安團隊密切注意，今年為止，應該就有8件中國大陸民眾非法入境的狀況。一般一進來之後就要送到檢調單位進行偵辦，由地方法院來裁判是不是違反入出國管理法，所以我們有一個法律機制來應處。","委員提到第三個重點，要是這些人有重要軍事情資的話，國安單位怎麼來掌握？關於委員提到的那一位阮姓陸籍人士，他因為有解放軍的背景，確實正如委員所說的、媒體也有報導，他有針對共軍的部署跟活動陳述一些他的觀察。跟委員說明的是，院方已經把相關的資料送到國安局來，我們也把所謂的情資做進一步的分析。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。現在國安局要做滲透工作其實不容易了，所以看未來要怎麼樣跨部會合作、過濾資訊，然後就把這些重要的情資留下來，可以吧？"],["蔡局長明彥：是，應該的，謝謝委員提醒。"],["林委員憶君：謝謝。再來請教局長，關於遠景基金會和亞太和平研究基金會這兩個基金會，我們一般認知算是國安局的外圍智庫，是嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有，他們是民間的社團，國安局跟其他政府單位一樣，跟這兩個基金會有一些委託研究的關係。"],["林委員憶君：好，那遠景基金會跟亞太和平研究基金會他們的預算是哪裡來的？還有每年有編列預算給他們嗎？還是藉由不同部會的委託案維持它的運作？那國安局有沒有委託這兩個單位做相關研究的計畫案？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，我們有委託一些研究案給這兩個單位，因為前面這個基金會比較涉及到國際相關情勢或區域情勢的研判；後面這個單位比較涉及到對於中國大陸內部情勢還有一些兩岸關係的研判，所以對於這兩個機構，我們有一些委託合作的計畫來請他們協助我們。"],["林委員憶君：好，那局長你知道這些官方和半官方的智庫其實都是在做學術研究嘛。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["林委員憶君：應該都有學術的期刊產生，譬如法務部調查局就有《展望與探索》月刊，國防研究院也有《國防安全雙週報》跟《戰略與評估》，同樣國安局遠景基金會也有固定發行《遠景基金會季刊》。"],["蔡局長明彥：遠景基金會是民間單位，對。"],["林委員憶君：相對來講，亞太和平基金會就比較神秘，請問局長，亞太和平基金會的學術出版是什麼？"],["蔡局長明彥：依我的印象，我沒有辦法替它來說明，但我的印象中他們好像也有一些比較簡單的出版品，但有沒有對外發行？我要再確認一下。"],["林委員憶君：我記得好像沒有出版品。我現在看遠景基金會跟亞太基金會大致上是分工，一個是對美、一個是對中國大陸，近來兩岸關係都陷入一個冰點、沒有辦法頻繁地到大陸交流，在這個前提下，是不是至少要有一些學術產生？那局長能不能解釋為什麼亞太基金會最近這幾年的學術研究都是趨近零呢？而且基金會裡面的研究員平常都在做些什麼事情？"],["蔡局長明彥：因為它是民間的單位，我不適合替它做說明，我們跟政府其他單位一樣做一些委託，特別強調是一些學術委託的計畫。也跟委員報告，我們一般不太特別去強調國安局跟外面單位的關係，因為這很有可能會讓這個單位遭到中共相關的制裁或相關後續動作的干擾，所以請委員能夠理解。"],["林委員憶君：好，所以你們就只有委託他們做一些相關的研究計畫案？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，學術的、學術的。"],["林委員憶君：然後他們是民間的？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，學術的單位。"],["林委員憶君：好。我最後再問一個問題，想請教一下關於地緣政治的問題，今年初北韓把南北韓定義成永遠無法統一的敵對關係，然後朝鮮半島就非常不平靜了，前天北韓的領導人金正恩才下令前線8個砲兵旅進入戰備，這兩天又啟動了爆破作業，準備炸毀連結南北韓之間的鐵軌還有道路，這部分國安局有掌握嗎？還有朝鮮半島的穩定也會牽動到臺灣的安全，請教局長，你認為南北韓關係會不會繼續惡化甚至爆發衝突呢？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，剛剛黃仁委員也在指教這個議題，我們有在關注，確實從去年8、9月之後，北韓的動作就非常的多，我們會持續關注北韓會不會有進一步冒進的動作，特別因為接下來這個月是美國大選期間，怕北韓會故意製造一些可能的衝突事件來爭取國際社會的關注；有一些南韓的政府機構也對外提出一些情報來說明，北韓似乎也有在準備第七次的核爆，這部分我們會密切來注意，因為現在的地緣政治情勢就像委員所提到，都是緊密連動、彼此牽連的，我們會來注意相關發展，謝謝委員。"],["林委員憶君：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林憶君召委，局長請回。","接下來進行詢答委員是陳冠廷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":406,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-4","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","馬文君","黃仁","徐巧芯","林憶君","陳冠廷","黃國昌","賴士葆","羅廷瑋","洪申翰","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","翁曉玲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":351,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00004"}}}