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{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 73.634, \"end\": 73.754, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 73.754, \"end\": 73.774, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"訂\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 73.774, \"end\": 73.794, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"訪\"}]}, {\"start\": 83.439, \"end\": 107.232, \"text\": \"那麼確實我們外送員其實在很多的在跟這個平台打官司的時候其實都是弱勢好那最近有一個案子事實上呢是台南市政府他用一個自治條例要求這個外送平台要幫這個外送員做第三人責任保險可是呢有但是沒有\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 83.439, \"end\": 84.72, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 84.72, \"end\": 84.96, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 84.96, \"end\": 85.2, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 85.2, \"end\": 86.02, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 86.02, \"end\": 86.301, \"score\": 0.615}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", 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\"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 98.887, \"end\": 99.548, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 99.548, \"end\": 100.068, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 100.068, \"end\": 100.908, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 100.908, \"end\": 101.089, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 101.089, \"end\": 101.329, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 101.329, \"end\": 101.609, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 101.609, \"end\": 102.209, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 102.209, \"end\": 103.81, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 103.81, \"end\": 104.01, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 104.01, \"end\": 104.751, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 104.751, \"end\": 104.971, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 104.971, \"end\": 105.111, 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\"結果fulpenna跑去跟臺南市政府打行政訴訟結果最後的結果是什麼呢是臺南市政府輸掉了反而是臺南市政府輸掉因為他的理由就是說保險不是地方自治事項所以撤銷了臺南市政府的處分所以我剛才在講就是說今天外送員啊面對的是一個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 111.574, \"end\": 111.714, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"f\", \"start\": 111.714, \"end\": 111.734, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"u\", \"start\": 111.734, \"end\": 111.814, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"l\", \"start\": 111.814, \"end\": 111.834, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"p\", \"start\": 111.834, \"end\": 111.854, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"e\", \"start\": 111.854, \"end\": 111.974, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"n\", \"start\": 111.974, \"end\": 111.994, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"n\", \"start\": 111.994, \"end\": 112.014, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"a\", \"start\": 112.014, \"end\": 112.294, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"跑\", \"start\": 112.294, \"end\": 112.555, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 112.555, \"end\": 112.735, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 112.735, 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00:00:07,045\n好謝謝主席我請我們何部長好部長好延續剛才您說分委員的話題我大概是第一次聽到就是有關於這個ubereat跟fulpanda的這個合併案裡面我們勞動部很明確的表達反對是不是那這樣的反對我們是不是已經有發函讓公平會知道了呢\n\n2\n00:00:32,814 --> 00:00:59,306\n我們要求公平會在討論合併案前一定要先智慧我們勞動部這邊沒有我的意思是說你們反對合併案因為其實很多的公會組織事上都在反對這個案子那當然你們作為勞動部但是你們這麼明確的態度有沒有發函給公平會讓他們知道\n\n3\n00:01:00,126 --> 00:01:13,794\n我們有跟公平會告知有用公文方式有去告知有正式喊因為他們現在還沒有做成決議因為還在補件的一個過程裡面那因為我覺得勞動部的態度其實是至為關鍵的啦好那另外請教一下就是剛才討論到因為部長也講說會訂定專訪\n\n4\n00:01:23,439 --> 00:01:47,232\n那麼確實我們外送員其實在很多的在跟這個平台打官司的時候其實都是弱勢好那最近有一個案子事實上呢是台南市政府他用一個自治條例要求這個外送平台要幫這個外送員做第三人責任保險可是呢有但是沒有\n\n5\n00:01:51,574 --> 00:02:14,903\n結果fulpenna跑去跟臺南市政府打行政訴訟結果最後的結果是什麼呢是臺南市政府輸掉了反而是臺南市政府輸掉因為他的理由就是說保險不是地方自治事項所以撤銷了臺南市政府的處分所以我剛才在講就是說今天外送員啊面對的是一個\n\n6\n00:02:16,744 --> 00:02:16,804\n王鴻薇議員\n\n7\n00:02:47,745 --> 00:02:49,365\n委員我們現在其實就有提供那個第三人責任險\n\n8\n00:03:09,995 --> 00:03:34,450\n這樣的規範喔給那個兩家業者他們也都同意我剛才有聽到你回答林淑芬委員講的說吳薇有所以福佩娜因為他也打官司嘛我剛剛講這個官司案例第三人責任險嗎還是指這一個第三人責任險他有反對嗎他跟台南市政府打官司因為台南市政府是用自治條例那是強制險對強制險那麼但是問題喔問題喔\n\n9\n00:03:39,734 --> 00:03:57,903\n這個外送平台其實也不只這兩家只這兩家是已經造成一個壟斷的局面就是其實他要這個整個的合併的面向很多啦不只外送員事實上我們基於消費者保護來說其實過去他們就是不尊重消費者他想他想要提高\n\n10\n00:03:58,443 --> 00:03:58,463\n韓國瑜\n\n11\n00:04:17,598 --> 00:04:43,320\n是不是可以我們中央專法裡面去補足這個地方自治條例的不足由中央來規範修法以後他們就不要去跟我們地方打官司地方還會輸掉在中央的部分可不可以第三責任險這強制險的部分可不可以委員跟您報告那個第三責任險我們治安署現在已經都勸說到兩家業者都同意替外送人法了我就說還有其他業者\n\n12\n00:04:44,921 --> 00:05:11,409\n對其他的小業者很少啦其實戰略很少我們都會再努力我們來盡量來讓他們但是你能不能在法裡面做規範對可是委員你直接在法裡面做規範不然人家那個地方自治條例就說你不是地方的權責啊委員專法的問題會出在齁我坦白說如果是勞動部當主管的機關我也管不到平台問題出在這裡所以你那個專法會不會是個有效的專法是個大問題啦我會就面臨跟台南市政府自治條例同樣的命運\n\n13\n00:05:14,783 --> 00:05:38,063\n所以這就是我們行政院我們現在要來跨部會討論哪一個部會管他才有辦法你們只要定住有人是主管機關就好啦你們現在就變三不管地帶阿你剛講好多都是這是交通部的事情不是你勞動部的事情難怪剛剛林淑芬委員會那麼生氣我還是覺得因為現在已經進入他們現在要合併的一個狀況\n\n14\n00:05:39,244 --> 00:05:42,588\n好那你剛剛講說這兩家沒錯他們兩家壟斷但是還有其他業者所以我們希望能夠在中央的法院上面去做補強而不要出現我剛剛在講像台南市政府的這樣的一個狀況所以你們要跨部會\n\n15\n00:05:54,682 --> 00:05:55,122\n中文字幕李慧琼\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4124\t7045\t好謝謝主席我請我們何部長好部長好延續剛才您說分委員的話題我大概是第一次聽到就是有關於這個uber eat跟ful panda的這個合併案裡面我們勞動部很明確的表達反對是不是那這樣的反對我們是不是已經有發函讓公平會知道了呢\n32814\t59306\t我們要求公平會在討論合併案前一定要先智慧我們勞動部這邊沒有我的意思是說你們反對合併案因為其實很多的公會組織事上都在反對這個案子那當然你們作為勞動部但是你們這麼明確的態度有沒有發函給公平會讓他們知道\n60126\t73794\t我們有跟公平會告知有用公文方式有去告知有正式喊因為他們現在還沒有做成決議因為還在補件的一個過程裡面那因為我覺得勞動部的態度其實是至為關鍵的啦好那另外請教一下就是剛才討論到因為部長也講說會訂定專訪\n83439\t107232\t那麼確實我們外送員其實在很多的在跟這個平台打官司的時候其實都是弱勢好那最近有一個案子事實上呢是台南市政府他用一個自治條例要求這個外送平台要幫這個外送員做第三人責任保險可是呢有但是沒有\n111574\t134903\t結果fulpenna跑去跟臺南市政府打行政訴訟結果最後的結果是什麼呢是臺南市政府輸掉了反而是臺南市政府輸掉因為他的理由就是說保險不是地方自治事項所以撤銷了臺南市政府的處分所以我剛才在講就是說今天外送員啊面對的是一個\n136744\t136804\t王鴻薇議員\n167745\t169365\t委員我們現在其實就有提供那個第三人責任險\n189995\t214450\t這樣的規範喔給那個兩家業者他們也都同意我剛才有聽到你回答林淑芬委員講的說吳薇有所以福佩娜因為他也打官司嘛我剛剛講這個官司案例第三人責任險嗎還是指這一個第三人責任險他有反對嗎他跟台南市政府打官司因為台南市政府是用自治條例那是強制險對強制險那麼但是問題喔問題喔\n219734\t237903\t這個外送平台其實也不只這兩家只這兩家是已經造成一個壟斷的局面就是其實他要這個整個的合併的面向很多啦不只外送員事實上我們基於消費者保護來說其實過去他們就是不尊重消費者他想他想要提高\n238443\t238463\t韓國瑜\n257598\t283320\t是不是可以我們中央專法裡面去補足這個地方自治條例的不足由中央來規範修法以後他們就不要去跟我們地方打官司地方還會輸掉在中央的部分可不可以第三責任險這強制險的部分可不可以委員跟您報告那個第三責任險我們治安署現在已經都勸說到兩家業者都同意替外送人法了我就說還有其他業者\n284921\t311409\t對其他的小業者很少啦其實戰略很少我們都會再努力我們來盡量來讓他們但是你能不能在法裡面做規範對可是委員你直接在法裡面做規範不然人家那個地方自治條例就說你不是地方的權責啊委員專法的問題會出在齁我坦白說如果是勞動部當主管的機關我也管不到平台問題出在這裡所以你那個專法會不會是個有效的專法是個大問題啦我會就面臨跟台南市政府自治條例同樣的命運\n314783\t338063\t所以這就是我們行政院我們現在要來跨部會討論哪一個部會管他才有辦法你們只要定住有人是主管機關就好啦你們現在就變三不管地帶阿你剛講好多都是這是交通部的事情不是你勞動部的事情難怪剛剛林淑芬委員會那麼生氣我還是覺得因為現在已經進入他們現在要合併的一個狀況\n339244\t342588\t好那你剛剛講說這兩家沒錯他們兩家壟斷但是還有其他業者所以我們希望能夠在中央的法院上面去做補強而不要出現我剛剛在講像台南市政府的這樣的一個狀況所以你們要跨部會\n354682\t355122\t中文字幕 李慧琼\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我請我們何部長好部長好延續剛才您說分委員的話題我大概是第一次聽到就是有關於這個uber eat跟ful panda的這個合併案裡面我們勞動部很明確的表達反對是不是那這樣的反對我們是不是已經有發函讓公平會知道了呢\n我們要求公平會在討論合併案前一定要先智慧我們勞動部這邊沒有我的意思是說你們反對合併案因為其實很多的公會組織事上都在反對這個案子那當然你們作為勞動部但是你們這麼明確的態度有沒有發函給公平會讓他們知道\n我們有跟公平會告知有用公文方式有去告知有正式喊因為他們現在還沒有做成決議因為還在補件的一個過程裡面那因為我覺得勞動部的態度其實是至為關鍵的啦好那另外請教一下就是剛才討論到因為部長也講說會訂定專訪\n那麼確實我們外送員其實在很多的在跟這個平台打官司的時候其實都是弱勢好那最近有一個案子事實上呢是台南市政府他用一個自治條例要求這個外送平台要幫這個外送員做第三人責任保險可是呢有但是沒有\n結果fulpenna跑去跟臺南市政府打行政訴訟結果最後的結果是什麼呢是臺南市政府輸掉了反而是臺南市政府輸掉因為他的理由就是說保險不是地方自治事項所以撤銷了臺南市政府的處分所以我剛才在講就是說今天外送員啊面對的是一個\n王鴻薇議員\n委員我們現在其實就有提供那個第三人責任險\n這樣的規範喔給那個兩家業者他們也都同意我剛才有聽到你回答林淑芬委員講的說吳薇有所以福佩娜因為他也打官司嘛我剛剛講這個官司案例第三人責任險嗎還是指這一個第三人責任險他有反對嗎他跟台南市政府打官司因為台南市政府是用自治條例那是強制險對強制險那麼但是問題喔問題喔\n這個外送平台其實也不只這兩家只這兩家是已經造成一個壟斷的局面就是其實他要這個整個的合併的面向很多啦不只外送員事實上我們基於消費者保護來說其實過去他們就是不尊重消費者他想他想要提高\n韓國瑜\n是不是可以我們中央專法裡面去補足這個地方自治條例的不足由中央來規範修法以後他們就不要去跟我們地方打官司地方還會輸掉在中央的部分可不可以第三責任險這強制險的部分可不可以委員跟您報告那個第三責任險我們治安署現在已經都勸說到兩家業者都同意替外送人法了我就說還有其他業者\n對其他的小業者很少啦其實戰略很少我們都會再努力我們來盡量來讓他們但是你能不能在法裡面做規範對可是委員你直接在法裡面做規範不然人家那個地方自治條例就說你不是地方的權責啊委員專法的問題會出在齁我坦白說如果是勞動部當主管的機關我也管不到平台問題出在這裡所以你那個專法會不會是個有效的專法是個大問題啦我會就面臨跟台南市政府自治條例同樣的命運\n所以這就是我們行政院我們現在要來跨部會討論哪一個部會管他才有辦法你們只要定住有人是主管機關就好啦你們現在就變三不管地帶阿你剛講好多都是這是交通部的事情不是你勞動部的事情難怪剛剛林淑芬委員會那麼生氣我還是覺得因為現在已經進入他們現在要合併的一個狀況\n好那你剛剛講說這兩家沒錯他們兩家壟斷但是還有其他業者所以我們希望能夠在中央的法院上面去做補強而不要出現我剛剛在講像台南市政府的這樣的一個狀況所以你們要跨部會\n中文字幕 李慧琼\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.124 --> 00:07.045\n好謝謝主席我請我們何部長好部長好延續剛才您說分委員的話題我大概是第一次聽到就是有關於這個ubereat跟fulpanda的這個合併案裡面我們勞動部很明確的表達反對是不是那這樣的反對我們是不是已經有發函讓公平會知道了呢\n\n00:32.814 --> 00:59.306\n我們要求公平會在討論合併案前一定要先智慧我們勞動部這邊沒有我的意思是說你們反對合併案因為其實很多的公會組織事上都在反對這個案子那當然你們作為勞動部但是你們這麼明確的態度有沒有發函給公平會讓他們知道\n\n01:00.126 --> 01:13.794\n我們有跟公平會告知有用公文方式有去告知有正式喊因為他們現在還沒有做成決議因為還在補件的一個過程裡面那因為我覺得勞動部的態度其實是至為關鍵的啦好那另外請教一下就是剛才討論到因為部長也講說會訂定專訪\n\n01:23.439 --> 01:47.232\n那麼確實我們外送員其實在很多的在跟這個平台打官司的時候其實都是弱勢好那最近有一個案子事實上呢是台南市政府他用一個自治條例要求這個外送平台要幫這個外送員做第三人責任保險可是呢有但是沒有\n\n01:51.574 --> 02:14.903\n結果fulpenna跑去跟臺南市政府打行政訴訟結果最後的結果是什麼呢是臺南市政府輸掉了反而是臺南市政府輸掉因為他的理由就是說保險不是地方自治事項所以撤銷了臺南市政府的處分所以我剛才在講就是說今天外送員啊面對的是一個\n\n02:16.744 --> 02:16.804\n王鴻薇議員\n\n02:47.745 --> 02:49.365\n委員我們現在其實就有提供那個第三人責任險\n\n03:09.995 --> 03:34.450\n這樣的規範喔給那個兩家業者他們也都同意我剛才有聽到你回答林淑芬委員講的說吳薇有所以福佩娜因為他也打官司嘛我剛剛講這個官司案例第三人責任險嗎還是指這一個第三人責任險他有反對嗎他跟台南市政府打官司因為台南市政府是用自治條例那是強制險對強制險那麼但是問題喔問題喔\n\n03:39.734 --> 03:57.903\n這個外送平台其實也不只這兩家只這兩家是已經造成一個壟斷的局面就是其實他要這個整個的合併的面向很多啦不只外送員事實上我們基於消費者保護來說其實過去他們就是不尊重消費者他想他想要提高\n\n03:58.443 --> 03:58.463\n韓國瑜\n\n04:17.598 --> 04:43.320\n是不是可以我們中央專法裡面去補足這個地方自治條例的不足由中央來規範修法以後他們就不要去跟我們地方打官司地方還會輸掉在中央的部分可不可以第三責任險這強制險的部分可不可以委員跟您報告那個第三責任險我們治安署現在已經都勸說到兩家業者都同意替外送人法了我就說還有其他業者\n\n04:44.921 --> 05:11.409\n對其他的小業者很少啦其實戰略很少我們都會再努力我們來盡量來讓他們但是你能不能在法裡面做規範對可是委員你直接在法裡面做規範不然人家那個地方自治條例就說你不是地方的權責啊委員專法的問題會出在齁我坦白說如果是勞動部當主管的機關我也管不到平台問題出在這裡所以你那個專法會不會是個有效的專法是個大問題啦我會就面臨跟台南市政府自治條例同樣的命運\n\n05:14.783 --> 05:38.063\n所以這就是我們行政院我們現在要來跨部會討論哪一個部會管他才有辦法你們只要定住有人是主管機關就好啦你們現在就變三不管地帶阿你剛講好多都是這是交通部的事情不是你勞動部的事情難怪剛剛林淑芬委員會那麼生氣我還是覺得因為現在已經進入他們現在要合併的一個狀況\n\n05:39.244 --> 05:42.588\n好那你剛剛講說這兩家沒錯他們兩家壟斷但是還有其他業者所以我們希望能夠在中央的法院上面去做補強而不要出現我剛剛在講像台南市政府的這樣的一個狀況所以你們要跨部會\n\n05:54.682 --> 05:55.122\n中文字幕李慧琼\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.124,"end":7.045,"text":"好謝謝主席我請我們何部長好部長好延續剛才您說分委員的話題我大概是第一次聽到就是有關於這個uber eat跟ful 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李慧琼"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:23:35 - 11:29:55","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155553,"gazette":{"lineno":853,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時23分）謝謝主席，我請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好，延續剛才林淑芬委員的話題。我大概是第一次聽到，有關於Uber Eats跟foodpanda的合併案裡面，勞動部很明確地表達反對，是不是？那這樣的反對，是不是已經有發函讓公平會知道了呢？"],["何部長佩珊：是、有，我們要求公平會在討論合併案前一定要先知會我們勞動部這邊。"],["王委員鴻薇：我的意思是說，你們反對合併案，因為其實很多的工會組織事實上都在反對這個案子，那當然你們做為勞動部，你們這麼明確的態度，有沒有發函給公平會，讓他們知道？"],["何部長佩珊：我們有告知公平會。"],["王委員鴻薇：有告知？"],["何部長佩珊：有。"],["王委員鴻薇：有用公文方式去告知？"],["何部長佩珊：有，有正式函。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為他們現在還沒有作成決議，因為還在補件的過程裡面，因為我覺得勞動部的態度其實是至為關鍵的。","好，那另外請教一下，就是剛才討論到，因為部長也講說會訂定專法，外送員在跟平台打官司的時候，其實都是弱勢，最近有一個案子，事實上是臺南市政府用一個自治條例，要求外送平台要幫外送員做第三人責任保險，可是Uber Eats有，foodpanda沒有，結果foodpanda跑去跟臺南市政府打行政訴訟，最後的結果是什麼呢？是臺南市政府輸掉了，反而是臺南市政府輸掉，理由就是保險不是地方自治事項，所以撤銷了臺南市政府的處分。我剛才在講的就是說，今天外送員面對的是他們的官司輸掉了，連我們地方政府都輸掉，那在這個案例裡面，會使得我們地方政府想要用自治條例來更明確地保障這些外送員的權益，最後也因為中央沒有規範而失敗。好，那我現在要請教部長，就是因為我們現在要修專法，那我自己也會去特別針對這個，因為如果連我們地方政府自治條例，他們都不甩，也給你打官司，他們還輸掉，那麼就由我們中央來做。在我們的專法裡面，就針對第三人責任保險的部分，由中央來規範，部長同不同意？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們現在其實就有提供第三人責任險這樣的規範給那兩家業者，他們也都同意。"],["王委員鴻薇：我剛才有聽到你回答林淑芬委員講的，說Uber Eats有，foodpanda……它打官司，我剛剛講這個官司的案例……"],["何部長佩珊：第三人責任險嗎？還是指……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，第三人責任險。它跟臺南市政府打官司，因為臺南市政府是用自治條例。"],["何部長佩珊：那是強制險。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，強制險。"],["何部長佩珊：我們的是第三人責任險。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是問題是這個外送平台其實也不只這兩家，只是這兩家是已經造成了一個壟斷的局面，就是其實整個合併的面向很多，不只外送員，事實上，我們基於消費者保護來說，其實過去他們就是不尊重消費者，想要提高服務費就提高服務費，現在交通部給外送平台有規定一個起跳價，就像計程車業者一樣，可是這其實讓消費者的權益受損。","好，因為我時間很短，那我請問一下，我剛剛講，是不是可以在中央專法裡面去補足這個地方自治條例的不足？由中央來規範修法，以後他們就不要去跟地方打官司，地方還會輸掉。在中央的部分，第三人責任險、強制險的部分，可不可以？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，跟您報告，那個第三人責任險，我們職安署現在已經勸說兩家業者都同意替外送員保了。"],["王委員鴻薇：我就說還有其他業者啊。"],["何部長佩珊：其他的業者很少啦，其實占率很少，我們都會再努力，我們儘量來讓他們……"],["王委員鴻薇：但是能不能在法裡面做規範呢？"],["何部長佩珊：可是委員，那個法……"],["王委員鴻薇：直接在法裡面做規範，不然那個地方自治條例就說不是地方的主責啊。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我坦白說，如果是勞動部當主管機關，我也管不到平台，問題出在這裡。所以你那個專法會不會是一個有效的專法，是一個大問題啦。我會面臨跟臺南市政府自治條例同樣的命運，所以這就是我們在行政院現在要來跨部會討論，哪一個部會管才有辦法，到底是交通部還是數發部……"],["王委員鴻薇：你們只要提出有人是主管機關就好啦。你們現在就變成三不管地帶。你剛剛講好多，都是說這是交通部的事情，不是你勞動部的事情，難怪剛剛林淑芬委員會那麼生氣。我還是覺得，因為現在已經進入要合併的狀況，你剛剛講說這兩家，沒錯，他們兩家壟斷，但是還有其他業者，所以我們希望能夠在中央的法源上面去做補強，而不要出現我剛剛在講的臺南市政府這樣的狀況，所以你們要跨部會，你們最後要由哪一個部會去擔任主管機關，我沒有什麼太大的意見，這個到時候專法還要再去討論，但是我希望不要再出現地方想要保護，最後卻全部都推到中央，地方也束手無策，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：我們積極來研議、討論，好嗎？"],["王委員鴻薇：要積極，我覺得還是要在法源上修法，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：是、是、是，好、好、好。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。中午不休息，繼續質詢到結束為止，今天沒有臨時動議，所以繼續請委員發言。","現在請羅廷瑋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}}