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{\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 362.108, \"end\": 362.128, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 364.282, \"end\": 364.329, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 364.329, \"end\": 364.353, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 364.353, \"end\": 364.377, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,251 --> 00:00:11,453\n謝謝主席有請部長何部長部長好部長沒有僱主禮會勞基法第54條在7月份我們立法院三讀勞動基準法第54條修正案在現行65歲強制退休年齡規定不變的情況下明定勞僱雙方的協商延後退休我想勞動部在這個新聞稿也寫到這個\n\n2\n00:00:36,613 --> 00:00:46,371\n代表社會各界對於勞動高齡者勞動力投入勞動市場是支持的我想哪一個行業別響應最為熱烈部長您有資訊嗎\n\n3\n00:00:48,892 --> 00:01:14,646\n應該我們其實現在有很多企業響應這個東西真的嗎那部長我想提供幾個資訊給你知道一下瞭解以受年齡限制最小的工作行業別而言像是保險業金融業行政客服業補教事業類都沒有人要響應7月份的三讀通過勞動基準法第54條修正內容我想部長就勞工而言修法利益良善但是雇主不理會後續我們該怎麼辦勞動部有沒有準備\n\n4\n00:01:18,413 --> 00:01:35,769\n當然我們要來加大力度宣導就是不能以年齡為歧視來任意支錢當然宣導是必要但是未來如果有沒有朝向完全沒辦法宣導完全沒有效果要不要強制半強制或者是給予更多的誘因這個部分呢你覺得呢\n\n5\n00:01:36,408 --> 00:01:37,609\n是,我們會來努力好嗎\n\n6\n00:02:06,408 --> 00:02:24,165\n我也不支持阿好謝謝你那部長我想之前您在未完委員會曾經對我表示過以個人的立場你是支持立外送員專法的那但是部長您知道光是現在官方的委外研究中建議外送員要立法的保障至少等了多久\n\n7\n00:02:26,629 --> 00:02:51,887\n委員這確實是一個需要審慎討論的問題啦所以這個在跨部會我們還在討論租款機關到底該怎麼辦的問題這是一個很核心的問題可是這也是核心問題我知道核心問題有很多都是核心問題但是我們希望的是能夠加快速度我先回答剛剛的那個答案從官方研究委外研究中啊\n\n8\n00:02:52,327 --> 00:03:12,231\n建議外送員要立法的保障到現在是2018的11月這份報告就已經出來了我們委外的研究我國推動新基金模式新科技發展對勞動市場的影響與因應的報告當中結論就指針對不同勞動光譜的一個工作制定更細緻的勞動法規應是較為可行的一個做法\n\n9\n00:03:14,972 --> 00:03:35,835\n制定兼顧雙方權益的勞動法規範就是為上冊2018年11月的這個研究到現在已經2024年10月了官方的委外研究報告建議外送員專法的保障足足等了5年11個月這個核心的問題研究了5年11個月我想\n\n10\n00:03:36,195 --> 00:03:53,577\n不管是外送員發生這個車禍的問題或者是剛剛有委員在討論不管是強制法第三責任險相關的一個問題我們都希望我們能夠立專法保障這些外送員所以我們最近也看到交通部目前已經預告要修正汽車\n\n11\n00:03:55,539 --> 00:04:11,607\n獲運業管理規則等相關規定將明定以機車載運乘運外送平台運送的業務運價我想這個是利益良善外送員最在意的就是包含啟程以及續程等待樓層業間加成的運費相關等等\n\n12\n00:04:14,648 --> 00:04:38,207\n我想這個部分都可以納入運價裡面對外送員的專法而言條文當中最難解決的一塊就是合理運價交通部試著去處理了以及報酬的透明化如今可以獲得採納也意味著專法已經邁向重要的一步所以到現在我想問一下部長你能不能在這裡承諾外送員專法在你任內會完成\n\n13\n00:04:39,431 --> 00:04:55,619\n委員我要先這個強調交通部會修這個法規是我們兩個部會共同討論的當然我不會說是他的一個功勞啦你們也有付出你們也有努力都沒有關係可不可以給我一個態度你能不能承諾在你的任內會完成\n\n14\n00:05:02,002 --> 00:05:17,935\n真的他的這一個他是不是會能不能是一個有效的立法這是要考慮的我們為什麼會去交通部那邊訂這樣子的一個運費透明化的在汽車或運輸業管理規則裡面訂就是因為坦白說現在能管uber的是誰公路法\n\n15\n00:05:18,695 --> 00:05:20,518\n現在外送員在什麼樣的情況之下會被平台停權開除沒有人知道\n\n16\n00:05:34,276 --> 00:06:02,128\n認為平台就是這樣的機制如此擴張他自己的權利這一點對外送員來說工作權益受損沒有獲得保障相關的申訴也不夠透明部長判死刑總得要有個理由吧沒理由判死刑會死不瞑目請問部會有沒有準備相關的因應對策這個也是我們跟平台在討論對話的討論議題我們希望看到具體的作為我們希望看到具體能夠保障外送員而不是一直在等一直在等一直在等請你加油好嗎謝謝好\n\n17\n00:06:04,282 --> 00:06:04,377\n李卓人議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8251\t11453\t謝謝主席有請部長何部長部長好部長沒有僱主禮會勞基法第54條在7月份我們立法院三讀勞動基準法第54條修正案在現行65歲強制退休年齡規定不變的情況下明定勞僱雙方的協商延後退休我想勞動部在這個新聞稿也寫到這個\n36613\t46371\t代表社會各界對於勞動高齡者勞動力投入勞動市場是支持的我想哪一個行業別響應最為熱烈部長您有資訊嗎\n48892\t74646\t應該我們其實現在有很多企業響應這個東西真的嗎那部長我想提供幾個資訊給你知道一下瞭解以受年齡限制最小的工作行業別而言像是保險業金融業行政客服業補教事業類都沒有人要響應7月份的三讀通過勞動基準法第54條修正內容我想部長就勞工而言修法利益良善但是雇主不理會後續我們該怎麼辦勞動部有沒有準備\n78413\t95769\t當然我們要來加大力度宣導就是不能以年齡為歧視來任意支錢當然宣導是必要但是未來如果有沒有朝向完全沒辦法宣導完全沒有效果要不要強制半強制或者是給予更多的誘因這個部分呢你覺得呢\n96408\t97609\t是,我們會來努力好嗎\n126408\t144165\t我也不支持阿好謝謝你那部長我想之前您在未完委員會曾經對我表示過以個人的立場你是支持立外送員專法的那但是部長您知道光是現在官方的委外研究中建議外送員要立法的保障至少等了多久\n146629\t171887\t委員這確實是一個需要審慎討論的問題啦所以這個在跨部會我們還在討論租款機關到底該怎麼辦的問題這是一個很核心的問題可是這也是核心問題我知道核心問題有很多都是核心問題但是我們希望的是能夠加快速度我先回答剛剛的那個答案從官方研究委外研究中啊\n172327\t192231\t建議外送員要立法的保障到現在是2018的11月這份報告就已經出來了我們委外的研究我國推動新基金模式新科技發展對勞動市場的影響與因應的報告當中結論就指針對不同勞動光譜的一個工作制定更細緻的勞動法規應是較為可行的一個做法\n194972\t215835\t制定兼顧雙方權益的勞動法規範就是為上冊2018年11月的這個研究到現在已經2024年10月了官方的委外研究報告建議外送員專法的保障足足等了5年11個月這個核心的問題研究了5年11個月我想\n216195\t233577\t不管是外送員發生這個車禍的問題或者是剛剛有委員在討論不管是強制法第三責任險相關的一個問題我們都希望我們能夠立專法保障這些外送員所以我們最近也看到交通部目前已經預告要修正汽車\n235539\t251607\t獲運業管理規則等相關規定將明定以機車載運乘運外送平台運送的業務運價我想這個是利益良善外送員最在意的就是包含啟程以及續程等待樓層業間加成的運費相關等等\n254648\t278207\t我想這個部分都可以納入運價裡面對外送員的專法而言條文當中最難解決的一塊就是合理運價交通部試著去處理了以及報酬的透明化如今可以獲得採納也意味著專法已經邁向重要的一步所以到現在我想問一下部長你能不能在這裡承諾外送員專法在你任內會完成\n279431\t295619\t委員我要先這個強調交通部會修這個法規是我們兩個部會共同討論的當然我不會說是他的一個功勞啦你們也有付出你們也有努力都沒有關係可不可以給我一個態度你能不能承諾在你的任內會完成\n302002\t317935\t真的他的這一個他是不是會能不能是一個有效的立法這是要考慮的我們為什麼會去交通部那邊訂這樣子的一個運費透明化的在汽車或運輸業管理規則裡面訂就是因為坦白說現在能管uber的是誰公路法\n318695\t320518\t現在外送員在什麼樣的情況之下會被平台停權開除沒有人知道\n334276\t362128\t認為平台就是這樣的機制如此擴張他自己的權利這一點對外送員來說工作權益受損沒有獲得保障相關的申訴也不夠透明部長判死刑總得要有個理由吧沒理由判死刑會死不瞑目請問部會有沒有準備相關的因應對策這個也是我們跟平台在討論對話的討論議題我們希望看到具體的作為我們希望看到具體能夠保障外送員而不是一直在等一直在等一直在等請你加油好嗎謝謝好\n364282\t364377\t李卓人議員\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請部長何部長部長好部長沒有僱主禮會勞基法第54條在7月份我們立法院三讀勞動基準法第54條修正案在現行65歲強制退休年齡規定不變的情況下明定勞僱雙方的協商延後退休我想勞動部在這個新聞稿也寫到這個\n代表社會各界對於勞動高齡者勞動力投入勞動市場是支持的我想哪一個行業別響應最為熱烈部長您有資訊嗎\n應該我們其實現在有很多企業響應這個東西真的嗎那部長我想提供幾個資訊給你知道一下瞭解以受年齡限制最小的工作行業別而言像是保險業金融業行政客服業補教事業類都沒有人要響應7月份的三讀通過勞動基準法第54條修正內容我想部長就勞工而言修法利益良善但是雇主不理會後續我們該怎麼辦勞動部有沒有準備\n當然我們要來加大力度宣導就是不能以年齡為歧視來任意支錢當然宣導是必要但是未來如果有沒有朝向完全沒辦法宣導完全沒有效果要不要強制半強制或者是給予更多的誘因這個部分呢你覺得呢\n是,我們會來努力好嗎\n我也不支持阿好謝謝你那部長我想之前您在未完委員會曾經對我表示過以個人的立場你是支持立外送員專法的那但是部長您知道光是現在官方的委外研究中建議外送員要立法的保障至少等了多久\n委員這確實是一個需要審慎討論的問題啦所以這個在跨部會我們還在討論租款機關到底該怎麼辦的問題這是一個很核心的問題可是這也是核心問題我知道核心問題有很多都是核心問題但是我們希望的是能夠加快速度我先回答剛剛的那個答案從官方研究委外研究中啊\n建議外送員要立法的保障到現在是2018的11月這份報告就已經出來了我們委外的研究我國推動新基金模式新科技發展對勞動市場的影響與因應的報告當中結論就指針對不同勞動光譜的一個工作制定更細緻的勞動法規應是較為可行的一個做法\n制定兼顧雙方權益的勞動法規範就是為上冊2018年11月的這個研究到現在已經2024年10月了官方的委外研究報告建議外送員專法的保障足足等了5年11個月這個核心的問題研究了5年11個月我想\n不管是外送員發生這個車禍的問題或者是剛剛有委員在討論不管是強制法第三責任險相關的一個問題我們都希望我們能夠立專法保障這些外送員所以我們最近也看到交通部目前已經預告要修正汽車\n獲運業管理規則等相關規定將明定以機車載運乘運外送平台運送的業務運價我想這個是利益良善外送員最在意的就是包含啟程以及續程等待樓層業間加成的運費相關等等\n我想這個部分都可以納入運價裡面對外送員的專法而言條文當中最難解決的一塊就是合理運價交通部試著去處理了以及報酬的透明化如今可以獲得採納也意味著專法已經邁向重要的一步所以到現在我想問一下部長你能不能在這裡承諾外送員專法在你任內會完成\n委員我要先這個強調交通部會修這個法規是我們兩個部會共同討論的當然我不會說是他的一個功勞啦你們也有付出你們也有努力都沒有關係可不可以給我一個態度你能不能承諾在你的任內會完成\n真的他的這一個他是不是會能不能是一個有效的立法這是要考慮的我們為什麼會去交通部那邊訂這樣子的一個運費透明化的在汽車或運輸業管理規則裡面訂就是因為坦白說現在能管uber的是誰公路法\n現在外送員在什麼樣的情況之下會被平台停權開除沒有人知道\n認為平台就是這樣的機制如此擴張他自己的權利這一點對外送員來說工作權益受損沒有獲得保障相關的申訴也不夠透明部長判死刑總得要有個理由吧沒理由判死刑會死不瞑目請問部會有沒有準備相關的因應對策這個也是我們跟平台在討論對話的討論議題我們希望看到具體的作為我們希望看到具體能夠保障外送員而不是一直在等一直在等一直在等請你加油好嗎謝謝好\n李卓人議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.251 --> 00:11.453\n謝謝主席有請部長何部長部長好部長沒有僱主禮會勞基法第54條在7月份我們立法院三讀勞動基準法第54條修正案在現行65歲強制退休年齡規定不變的情況下明定勞僱雙方的協商延後退休我想勞動部在這個新聞稿也寫到這個\n\n00:36.613 --> 00:46.371\n代表社會各界對於勞動高齡者勞動力投入勞動市場是支持的我想哪一個行業別響應最為熱烈部長您有資訊嗎\n\n00:48.892 --> 01:14.646\n應該我們其實現在有很多企業響應這個東西真的嗎那部長我想提供幾個資訊給你知道一下瞭解以受年齡限制最小的工作行業別而言像是保險業金融業行政客服業補教事業類都沒有人要響應7月份的三讀通過勞動基準法第54條修正內容我想部長就勞工而言修法利益良善但是雇主不理會後續我們該怎麼辦勞動部有沒有準備\n\n01:18.413 --> 01:35.769\n當然我們要來加大力度宣導就是不能以年齡為歧視來任意支錢當然宣導是必要但是未來如果有沒有朝向完全沒辦法宣導完全沒有效果要不要強制半強制或者是給予更多的誘因這個部分呢你覺得呢\n\n01:36.408 --> 01:37.609\n是,我們會來努力好嗎\n\n02:06.408 --> 02:24.165\n我也不支持阿好謝謝你那部長我想之前您在未完委員會曾經對我表示過以個人的立場你是支持立外送員專法的那但是部長您知道光是現在官方的委外研究中建議外送員要立法的保障至少等了多久\n\n02:26.629 --> 02:51.887\n委員這確實是一個需要審慎討論的問題啦所以這個在跨部會我們還在討論租款機關到底該怎麼辦的問題這是一個很核心的問題可是這也是核心問題我知道核心問題有很多都是核心問題但是我們希望的是能夠加快速度我先回答剛剛的那個答案從官方研究委外研究中啊\n\n02:52.327 --> 03:12.231\n建議外送員要立法的保障到現在是2018的11月這份報告就已經出來了我們委外的研究我國推動新基金模式新科技發展對勞動市場的影響與因應的報告當中結論就指針對不同勞動光譜的一個工作制定更細緻的勞動法規應是較為可行的一個做法\n\n03:14.972 --> 03:35.835\n制定兼顧雙方權益的勞動法規範就是為上冊2018年11月的這個研究到現在已經2024年10月了官方的委外研究報告建議外送員專法的保障足足等了5年11個月這個核心的問題研究了5年11個月我想\n\n03:36.195 --> 03:53.577\n不管是外送員發生這個車禍的問題或者是剛剛有委員在討論不管是強制法第三責任險相關的一個問題我們都希望我們能夠立專法保障這些外送員所以我們最近也看到交通部目前已經預告要修正汽車\n\n03:55.539 --> 04:11.607\n獲運業管理規則等相關規定將明定以機車載運乘運外送平台運送的業務運價我想這個是利益良善外送員最在意的就是包含啟程以及續程等待樓層業間加成的運費相關等等\n\n04:14.648 --> 04:38.207\n我想這個部分都可以納入運價裡面對外送員的專法而言條文當中最難解決的一塊就是合理運價交通部試著去處理了以及報酬的透明化如今可以獲得採納也意味著專法已經邁向重要的一步所以到現在我想問一下部長你能不能在這裡承諾外送員專法在你任內會完成\n\n04:39.431 --> 04:55.619\n委員我要先這個強調交通部會修這個法規是我們兩個部會共同討論的當然我不會說是他的一個功勞啦你們也有付出你們也有努力都沒有關係可不可以給我一個態度你能不能承諾在你的任內會完成\n\n05:02.002 --> 05:17.935\n真的他的這一個他是不是會能不能是一個有效的立法這是要考慮的我們為什麼會去交通部那邊訂這樣子的一個運費透明化的在汽車或運輸業管理規則裡面訂就是因為坦白說現在能管uber的是誰公路法\n\n05:18.695 --> 05:20.518\n現在外送員在什麼樣的情況之下會被平台停權開除沒有人知道\n\n05:34.276 --> 06:02.128\n認為平台就是這樣的機制如此擴張他自己的權利這一點對外送員來說工作權益受損沒有獲得保障相關的申訴也不夠透明部長判死刑總得要有個理由吧沒理由判死刑會死不瞑目請問部會有沒有準備相關的因應對策這個也是我們跟平台在討論對話的討論議題我們希望看到具體的作為我們希望看到具體能夠保障外送員而不是一直在等一直在等一直在等請你加油好嗎謝謝好\n\n06:04.282 --> 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- 11:36:07","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155555,"gazette":{"lineno":889,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時30分）好，謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，部長好。部長，沒有雇主理會勞基法第五十四條，在7月份我們立法院三讀勞動基準法第五十四條修正案，在現行六十五歲強制退休年齡規定不變的情況下，明定勞雇雙方得協商延後退休。我想勞動部在新聞稿也寫到，代表社會各界對於勞動高齡者勞動力投入勞動市場是支持的，我想哪一個行業別響應最為熱烈？部長，您有資訊嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是，其實現在有很多企業響應這個東西。"],["羅委員廷瑋：真的嗎？部長，我想提供幾個資訊給你知道一下，以受年齡限制最小的工作行業別而言，像是保險業、金融業、行政客服業、補教事業類，都沒有人要響應7月份三讀通過的勞動基準法第五十四條修正內容。部長，就勞工而言，修法立意良善，但是雇主不理會，後續我們該怎麼辦？勞動部有沒有準備？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，其實這個當然我們要來加大力度宣導，就是不能以年齡歧視來任意資遣。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然。宣導是必要的，但是未來如果完全沒辦法宣導，完全沒有效果，這個部分要不要強制、半強制或給予更多的誘因？你覺得呢？"],["何部長佩珊：是，我們會來努力，好嗎？"],["羅委員廷瑋：今天我先跟你這樣講，這是我的一個態度，我希望後續我們應該要有研議，再來會後討論，而不是只是告訴我們「我們再來努力」、「我們再來努力」，過了一年、兩年都這樣子。為什麼我會這樣講？我們就講到外送員立法專法的牛步化，那現在我們要問，我在總質詢問過卓院長支不支持Uber Eats併購foodpanda，當時院長給我的回應，聽起來就是他不支持，那部長您覺得呢？"],["何部長佩珊：我也不支持啊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝你。部長，之前您在衛環委員會曾經對我表示過，以個人的立場，你是支持立外送員專法的，但是部長您知道，光是現在官方的委外研究中，建議外送員要立法的保障，至少等了多久？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，這確實是一個需要審慎討論的問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是，審慎討論。"],["何部長佩珊：所以這個在跨部會我們還在討論主管機關到底該怎麼辦的問題，這是一個很核心的問題，可是這也是核心問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道核心問題，有很多都是核心問題，但是我們希望的是能夠加快速度。我先回答剛剛的那個答案，從官方的委外研究報告中，建議外送員要立法的保障，是2018年11月，這一份報告就已經出來了，委外研究「我國推動新經濟模式與新科技發展對勞動市場的影響與因應」的報告當中，結論就指出，針對不同勞動光譜的一個工作，制定更細緻的勞動法規，應是較為可行的一個做法。制定兼顧雙方權益的勞動法規是為上策。2018年11月的這個研究，到現在已經2024年10月了，官方的委外研究報告建議外送員專法的保障，足足等了5年11個月，這一個核心的問題研究了5年11個月，我想不管是外送員發生車禍的問題，或者是剛剛有委員在討論的保險，不管是強制法、第三責任險相關的問題，我們都希望我們能夠立專法保障這些外送員。","所以我們最近也看到，交通部目前已經預告要修正汽車運輸業管理規則等相關規定，將明定以機車載運、承運外送平台運送的業務運價，我想這個是立意良善。外送員最在意的就是包含起程、續程、等待、樓層、夜間加成的運費相關等等，我想這個部分都可以納入運價裡面，對外送員的專法而言，條文當中最難解決的一塊就是合理運價，交通部試著去處理了，以及報酬的透明化，如今可以獲得採納，也意味著專法已經邁向重要的一步。所以到現在我想問一下部長，你能不能在這裡承諾，外送員專法在你任內會完成？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我要先強調，交通部會修這個法規，是我們兩個部會共同討論的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然。我不會說是它的一個功勞，你們也有付出，你們也有努力，都沒有關係，可不可以給我一個態度？"],["何部長佩珊：我們這邊希望能透過這樣有效立法的方式啦。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你能不能承諾在你的任內會完成？"],["何部長佩珊：可是委員，外送專法能不能是一個有效的立法，這是要考慮的，我們為什麼會去交通部那邊定這樣子的一個運費透明化的規定，列在汽車運輸業管理規則裡面？就是因為，坦白說，現在能管Uber的是誰？公路法。能有效管它的是公路法，所以……"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，你突然保守起來了，但是我覺得我們希望看到的是你的魄力。","最後我有一個問題要跟部長討論。現在外送員在什麼樣的情況之下會被平台停權開除，沒有人知道。平台就是這樣的機制，如此擴張它自己的權利，這一點對外送員來說，工作的權益受損沒有獲得保障，相關的申訴也不夠透明，部長，判死刑總得要有個理由吧？沒理由被判死刑會死不瞑目，請問部會有沒有準備相關的因應對策？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，這個也是我們跟平台在討論對話的討論議題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們希望看到具體的作為，我們希望看到具體能夠保障外送員，而不是一直在等，一直在等，一直在等。請你加油，好嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝，好。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員。","接下來請陳瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}}