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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,214 --> 00:00:42,378\n謝謝主席那個部長先不用上來等你休息一下那我先請那個治安署周署長周署長部長下半場再上來就好了好署長好今天我想要針對就這一年我們這個職災現況跟趨勢來討論首先我們看一下這個簡報就是今年113年重大職災死亡的預期人數是多少\n\n2\n00:00:45,104 --> 00:01:08,573\n我們沒有預期要死亡人數,我們希望降低到這個標準值以下。沒有預期?就沒有預期?我原先這樣講,我們比如今天最後打擊人﹖我們沒有設標準嗎?有,今天最後打擊人是平均過去3年最弱的死亡事件總共是平均97人。我們希望降到﹖重大之災,平均97人喔?我想最弱的。\n\n3\n00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:10,821\n從那個年初到現在已經有多少人不幸死亡了?\n\n4\n00:01:38,826 --> 00:01:55,076\n目前我們手邊統計是210人。210人。是。好。那你覺得今年會不會超過往年的一個平均值?我們希望能夠比去年降低。\n\n5\n00:01:59,328 --> 00:02:20,680\n去年是多少?那你說現在截至目前為止已經多少了?210人了好那這個部分因為已經200多人了我沒有很樂觀但我希望他最後可以不要超過在去年\n\n6\n00:02:26,242 --> 00:02:47,428\n112年的這個職災千人率是不是歷史新低千人率不會是依照勞保的幾副作主目前我們數字確實是歷年新低好那如果是歷史新低的話但是我們看這個重大職災死亡的人數他還是偏高的所以我要請教就署長你個人你相信哪個指標\n\n7\n00:02:48,528 --> 00:03:03,949\n報告委員指南幾乎是一個指標那我們的重大指南死亡人數是法令強制規定一定要做通報跟進入檢查的那牽連率部分有包括死亡失能跟傷病所以死亡部分在裡面比例是相對是低的\n\n8\n00:03:05,987 --> 00:03:33,036\n我其實是問的這個職災千人率跟那個重大職災死亡人數這兩個是你覺得這兩個的指標你覺得哪一個是比較精準的精準的部分是我們重大職災死亡人數這個我們接受通報檢查的部分那勞保的幾部有人是沒有投勞保或是勞保沒有幾部對嘛那所以這個職災千人率的部分嘛因為現在是主要是這個\n\n9\n00:03:35,877 --> 00:03:46,567\n蘇志的走向是有點奇怪啊照理來講是應該是個正常來說是應該是平行但是我們現在還出現一個交叉這是很奇怪的事情嗎\n\n10\n00:03:48,939 --> 00:04:14,673\n我想是這樣這個也讓社會各界就搞不清楚到底他該相信這個重大職災的這個死亡人數還是這個職災千人率還創歷年新低這個大家會覺得很疑惑啊你如果職災千人率已經降低很多的話那你怎麼那個重大職災死亡人數一直在飆高這兩個就反方向了嘛\n\n11\n00:04:15,313 --> 00:04:39,820\n那我上個月齁我是我終於在上個月上個月就9月嘛齁收到你們112年勞動統計的年報那因為過去呢我也有提過往年其實都是7月就出來了但是現在好像越來越慢了又等到9月欸這是什麼原因啊報告委員我們每年的勞動勞動檢查統計年報都是大概都是7、8月出來沒有錯\n\n12\n00:04:42,631 --> 00:04:48,226\n今年6月就上去,印製比較久一點\n\n13\n00:04:52,076 --> 00:05:18,821\n好我希望都可以準時好不好是我們在努力因為不是每個人都可以拿到拿到就是有些人有些人拿到紙本有些人上網看這樣子很不統一啦又落差這麼久的時間還有就是說因為你們歷年的資料我去比對了一下發現這個勞動檢查場次的增加好像跟實在的減少沒有什麼關係署長你針對這樣的狀況你有什麼看法是因為我們檢查的品質下降了嗎\n\n14\n00:05:40,074 --> 00:06:00,811\n所以我們當然會檢討說我們的檢查效能到底能不能控制災害的不要再繼續往上我講數字是會說話的嘛目前這樣看起來是沒有嘛所以如果你說這個也要因應這個我們整個社會邊牽還有整個環境的一個變化那你們也應該要做調整不是嗎\n\n15\n00:06:01,997 --> 00:06:24,456\n是的所以跟委員報告比如說我剛剛講離岸風力發電我們就投注一些人力做這樣子的檢查那那個呃太陽能發電現在很多對推那個物理型太陽能發太陽能電板我們認為那也是高風險所以你在講也只是就是單一的項目啦那個我覺得我們事後可以你再好好的詳細跟本本辦公室做報告那因為這個勞動的年報的主要資料他\n\n16\n00:06:26,382 --> 00:06:51,675\n這個資料它主要是有分為這個勞動條件還有職業安全衛生兩個不同領域的檢查那實際上呢在你們的這個執行的程序是依照這個勞動檢查法那我要請問就是說你們的這個檢查員名稱是不是叫勞動檢查員是的好那我記得之前齁這個外送平台的這個勞動權益跟這個僱傭關係也是你們職安署認定的嘛對不對\n\n17\n00:06:52,472 --> 00:06:56,894\n我還是要提醒你我的問題沒有太復雜你就直接簡單回答就好了那在這個我們過去在討論這個勞基法修法的時候勞動檢查勞動條件的檢查也是你們執行的嗎不是嗎\n\n18\n00:07:23,131 --> 00:07:27,802\n執行端是我們職安署配合各地方政府的聘用檢察員做執行的沒有錯\n\n19\n00:07:28,676 --> 00:07:53,013\n反正就不是要叫調評司嗎那你們負責的業務早就已經超過這個職業安全衛生的業務那有越來越多的這個勞動者的權益要靠你們去保護所以你們出版的年報呢也叫做這個勞動檢查年報那檢查員也叫做勞動檢查員那平台作業工作者的勞動權益跟安全跟安全\n\n20\n00:07:54,514 --> 00:08:13,449\n安全衛生也是你們在保護只是說本期覺得很疑惑的一件事就是你們都還是叫做這個職業安全衛生署那感覺是這個名稱跟實際的狀況是名不符實你都笑了好那接下來我想部長休息夠了可以請部長上來\n\n21\n00:08:15,851 --> 00:08:30,686\n今年剛好是這個職安署成立10週年那10年前這個勞委會的勞工安全衛生研究所升格為勞動部的這個勞動及職業安全衛生研究所\n\n22\n00:08:32,388 --> 00:08:50,547\n我有提出來就是說經過這10年的變遷你們的這個職安所應該要升格為勞動及職業安全衛生署明確的把這個職權跟組織的功能然後做一個完整的盤點跟討論我希望我今天提出這個部長不要反對\n\n23\n00:08:53,015 --> 00:09:14,192\n我們再研議看看好嗎委員這個就是讓你們明復其實應該不是太困難他就是一個名稱這樣子因為這牽涉到其實那個三級機關屬是三級機關那現在都滿了喔除非我去修行政院組織法\n\n24\n00:09:15,595 --> 00:09:20,659\n你們可以好好去研議,因為你們這個應該不是,這應該沒有到這麼複雜。不過這也是要修法,就沒有那麼高崗了。\n\n25\n00:09:31,107 --> 00:09:59,578\n好謝謝委員謝謝對啊因為有些都已經就有些組別名稱都沒有只有還還有存在也是怪怪的那個我相信部長非常關注這個勞工權益的問題那這裡面呢不是只有職業安全衛生業務而已那現今的這個勞動條件還有職災勞工保護的業務都跟10年前其實是很不一樣的那麼例如說這個職災勞工保護法已經落日了\n\n26\n00:10:00,629 --> 00:10:14,599\n但是呢就是現在已經是被這個勞工職業災害保險及保護法所取代但是這個職保組的業務呢也已經轉移給這個勞保局了那在你們第二任署長就是那個劉傳明很會畫國畫那個畫機的那位\n\n27\n00:10:18,422 --> 00:10:45,057\n就是調平司司長去接任那個職安署署長而且他就很喜歡很喜歡講號稱這個聲稱這個牢條大軍說準備好了那尤其是現在很多的這個勞動新興議題還有職場精神不法傷害侵害還有性騷擾性別平等等還有就業歧視勞保投送勞保投保還有這個外籍勞工等等都跟你們職安署的業務是有關係的所以很多的這個新興的職業病\n\n28\n00:10:46,318 --> 00:10:46,438\n﹝講解中﹞\n\n29\n00:11:08,652 --> 00:11:33,630\n這個也要拜託就是那個部裡面還有我們整個衛環委員會的同仁大家一起來思考職安署升格的必要性我相信你們應該是改名啦是改組織才要調整然後還有裡面那個這個修法之後這個已經不見得卻還存在的這個看要怎麼處理\n\n30\n00:11:35,251 --> 00:12:01,343\n你們是不是可以在一個月內演繹好來委員其實我們勞動部裡面的更迫切要面臨那個組織調整的還蠻多的沒關係我們可以再跟委員好好的來討論我們每個人關注的面向不同但是但是有問題大家就是會提出來提醒部長這就是我們的工作那這個也沒有說因為太多我們就得先怎麼樣就是都很重要都要一起做好謝謝謝謝謝謝陳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14214\t42378\t謝謝主席那個部長先不用上來等你休息一下那我先請那個治安署周署長周署長部長下半場再上來就好了好署長好今天我想要針對就這一年我們這個職災現況跟趨勢來討論首先我們看一下這個簡報就是今年113年重大職災死亡的預期人數是多少\n45104\t68573\t我們沒有預期要死亡人數,我們希望降低到這個標準值以下。沒有預期?就沒有預期?我原先這樣講,我們比如今天最後打擊人﹖我們沒有設標準嗎?有,今天最後打擊人是平均過去3年最弱的死亡事件總共是平均97人。我們希望降到﹖重大之災,平均97人喔?我想最弱的。\n69480\t70821\t從那個年初到現在已經有多少人不幸死亡了?\n98826\t115076\t目前我們手邊統計是210人。210人。是。好。那你覺得今年會不會超過往年的一個平均值?我們希望能夠比去年降低。\n119328\t140680\t去年是多少?那你說現在截至目前為止已經多少了?210人了好那這個部分因為已經200多人了我沒有很樂觀但我希望他最後可以不要超過在去年\n146242\t167428\t112年的這個職災千人率是不是歷史新低千人率不會是依照勞保的幾副作主目前我們數字確實是歷年新低好那如果是歷史新低的話但是我們看這個重大職災死亡的人數他還是偏高的所以我要請教就署長你個人你相信哪個指標\n168528\t183949\t報告委員指南幾乎是一個指標那我們的重大指南死亡人數是法令強制規定一定要做通報跟進入檢查的那牽連率部分有包括死亡失能跟傷病所以死亡部分在裡面比例是相對是低的\n185987\t213036\t我其實是問的這個職災千人率跟那個重大職災死亡人數這兩個是你覺得這兩個的指標你覺得哪一個是比較精準的精準的部分是我們重大職災死亡人數這個我們接受通報檢查的部分那勞保的幾部有人是沒有投勞保或是勞保沒有幾部對嘛那所以這個職災千人率的部分嘛因為現在是主要是這個\n215877\t226567\t蘇志的走向是有點奇怪啊照理來講是應該是個正常來說是應該是平行但是我們現在還出現一個交叉這是很奇怪的事情嗎\n228939\t254673\t我想是這樣這個也讓社會各界就搞不清楚到底他該相信這個重大職災的這個死亡人數還是這個職災千人率還創歷年新低這個大家會覺得很疑惑啊你如果職災千人率已經降低很多的話那你怎麼那個重大職災死亡人數一直在飆高這兩個就反方向了嘛\n255313\t279820\t那我上個月齁我是我終於在上個月上個月就9月嘛齁收到你們112年勞動統計的年報那因為過去呢我也有提過往年其實都是7月就出來了但是現在好像越來越慢了又等到9月欸這是什麼原因啊報告委員我們每年的勞動勞動檢查統計年報都是大概都是7、8月出來沒有錯\n282631\t288226\t今年6月就上去,印製比較久一點\n292076\t318821\t好我希望都可以準時好不好是我們在努力因為不是每個人都可以拿到拿到就是有些人有些人拿到紙本有些人上網看這樣子很不統一啦又落差這麼久的時間還有就是說因為你們歷年的資料我去比對了一下發現這個勞動檢查場次的增加好像跟實在的減少沒有什麼關係署長你針對這樣的狀況你有什麼看法是因為我們檢查的品質下降了嗎\n319241\t339974\t﹖\n340074\t360811\t所以我們當然會檢討說我們的檢查效能到底能不能控制災害的不要再繼續往上我講數字是會說話的嘛目前這樣看起來是沒有嘛所以如果你說這個也要因應這個我們整個社會邊牽還有整個環境的一個變化那你們也應該要做調整不是嗎\n361997\t384456\t是的所以跟委員報告比如說我剛剛講離岸風力發電我們就投注一些人力做這樣子的檢查那那個呃太陽能發電現在很多對推那個物理型太陽能發太陽能電板我們認為那也是高風險所以你在講也只是就是單一的項目啦那個我覺得我們事後可以你再好好的詳細跟本本辦公室做報告那因為這個勞動的年報的主要資料他\n386382\t411675\t這個資料它主要是有分為這個勞動條件還有職業安全衛生兩個不同領域的檢查那實際上呢在你們的這個執行的程序是依照這個勞動檢查法那我要請問就是說你們的這個檢查員名稱是不是叫勞動檢查員是的好那我記得之前齁這個外送平台的這個勞動權益跟這個僱傭關係也是你們職安署認定的嘛對不對\n412472\t416894\t我還是要提醒你我的問題沒有太復雜你就直接簡單回答就好了那在這個我們過去在討論這個勞基法修法的時候勞動檢查勞動條件的檢查也是你們執行的嗎不是嗎\n443131\t447802\t執行端是我們職安署配合各地方政府的聘用檢察員做執行的沒有錯\n448676\t473013\t反正就不是要叫調評司嗎那你們負責的業務早就已經超過這個職業安全衛生的業務那有越來越多的這個勞動者的權益要靠你們去保護所以你們出版的年報呢也叫做這個勞動檢查年報那檢查員也叫做勞動檢查員那平台作業工作者的勞動權益跟安全跟安全\n474514\t493449\t安全衛生也是你們在保護只是說本期覺得很疑惑的一件事就是你們都還是叫做這個職業安全衛生署那感覺是這個名稱跟實際的狀況是名不符實你都笑了好那接下來我想部長休息夠了可以請部長上來\n495851\t510686\t今年剛好是這個職安署成立10週年那10年前這個勞委會的勞工安全衛生研究所升格為勞動部的這個勞動及職業安全衛生研究所\n512388\t530547\t我有提出來就是說經過這10年的變遷你們的這個職安所應該要升格為勞動及職業安全衛生署明確的把這個職權跟組織的功能然後做一個完整的盤點跟討論我希望我今天提出這個部長不要反對\n533015\t554192\t我們再研議看看好嗎委員這個就是讓你們明復其實應該不是太困難他就是一個名稱這樣子因為這牽涉到其實那個三級機關屬是三級機關那現在都滿了喔除非我去修行政院組織法\n555595\t560659\t你們可以好好去研議,因為你們這個應該不是,這應該沒有到這麼複雜。不過這也是要修法,就沒有那麼高崗了。\n571107\t599578\t好謝謝委員謝謝對啊因為有些都已經就有些組別名稱都沒有只有還還有存在也是怪怪的那個我相信部長非常關注這個勞工權益的問題那這裡面呢不是只有職業安全衛生業務而已那現今的這個勞動條件還有職災勞工保護的業務都跟10年前其實是很不一樣的那麼例如說這個職災勞工保護法已經落日了\n600629\t614599\t但是呢就是現在已經是被這個勞工職業災害保險及保護法所取代但是這個職保組的業務呢也已經轉移給這個勞保局了那在你們第二任署長就是那個劉傳明很會畫國畫那個畫機的那位\n618422\t645057\t就是調平司司長去接任那個職安署署長而且他就很喜歡很喜歡講號稱這個聲稱這個牢條大軍說準備好了那尤其是現在很多的這個勞動新興議題還有職場精神不法傷害侵害還有性騷擾性別平等等還有就業歧視勞保投送勞保投保還有這個外籍勞工等等都跟你們職安署的業務是有關係的所以很多的這個新興的職業病\n646318\t646438\t﹝講解中﹞\n668652\t693630\t這個也要拜託就是那個部裡面還有我們整個衛環委員會的同仁大家一起來思考職安署升格的必要性我相信你們應該是改名啦是改組織才要調整然後還有裡面那個這個修法之後這個已經不見得卻還存在的這個看要怎麼處理\n695251\t721343\t你們是不是可以在一個月內演繹好來委員其實我們勞動部裡面的更迫切要面臨那個組織調整的還蠻多的沒關係我們可以再跟委員好好的來討論我們每個人關注的面向不同但是但是有問題大家就是會提出來提醒部長這就是我們的工作那這個也沒有說因為太多我們就得先怎麼樣就是都很重要都要一起做好謝謝謝謝謝謝陳委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席那個部長先不用上來等你休息一下那我先請那個治安署周署長周署長部長下半場再上來就好了好署長好今天我想要針對就這一年我們這個職災現況跟趨勢來討論首先我們看一下這個簡報就是今年113年重大職災死亡的預期人數是多少\n我們沒有預期要死亡人數,我們希望降低到這個標準值以下。沒有預期?就沒有預期?我原先這樣講,我們比如今天最後打擊人﹖我們沒有設標準嗎?有,今天最後打擊人是平均過去3年最弱的死亡事件總共是平均97人。我們希望降到﹖重大之災,平均97人喔?我想最弱的。\n從那個年初到現在已經有多少人不幸死亡了?\n目前我們手邊統計是210人。210人。是。好。那你覺得今年會不會超過往年的一個平均值?我們希望能夠比去年降低。\n去年是多少?那你說現在截至目前為止已經多少了?210人了好那這個部分因為已經200多人了我沒有很樂觀但我希望他最後可以不要超過在去年\n112年的這個職災千人率是不是歷史新低千人率不會是依照勞保的幾副作主目前我們數字確實是歷年新低好那如果是歷史新低的話但是我們看這個重大職災死亡的人數他還是偏高的所以我要請教就署長你個人你相信哪個指標\n報告委員指南幾乎是一個指標那我們的重大指南死亡人數是法令強制規定一定要做通報跟進入檢查的那牽連率部分有包括死亡失能跟傷病所以死亡部分在裡面比例是相對是低的\n我其實是問的這個職災千人率跟那個重大職災死亡人數這兩個是你覺得這兩個的指標你覺得哪一個是比較精準的精準的部分是我們重大職災死亡人數這個我們接受通報檢查的部分那勞保的幾部有人是沒有投勞保或是勞保沒有幾部對嘛那所以這個職災千人率的部分嘛因為現在是主要是這個\n蘇志的走向是有點奇怪啊照理來講是應該是個正常來說是應該是平行但是我們現在還出現一個交叉這是很奇怪的事情嗎\n我想是這樣這個也讓社會各界就搞不清楚到底他該相信這個重大職災的這個死亡人數還是這個職災千人率還創歷年新低這個大家會覺得很疑惑啊你如果職災千人率已經降低很多的話那你怎麼那個重大職災死亡人數一直在飆高這兩個就反方向了嘛\n那我上個月齁我是我終於在上個月上個月就9月嘛齁收到你們112年勞動統計的年報那因為過去呢我也有提過往年其實都是7月就出來了但是現在好像越來越慢了又等到9月欸這是什麼原因啊報告委員我們每年的勞動勞動檢查統計年報都是大概都是7、8月出來沒有錯\n今年6月就上去,印製比較久一點\n好我希望都可以準時好不好是我們在努力因為不是每個人都可以拿到拿到就是有些人有些人拿到紙本有些人上網看這樣子很不統一啦又落差這麼久的時間還有就是說因為你們歷年的資料我去比對了一下發現這個勞動檢查場次的增加好像跟實在的減少沒有什麼關係署長你針對這樣的狀況你有什麼看法是因為我們檢查的品質下降了嗎\n﹖\n所以我們當然會檢討說我們的檢查效能到底能不能控制災害的不要再繼續往上我講數字是會說話的嘛目前這樣看起來是沒有嘛所以如果你說這個也要因應這個我們整個社會邊牽還有整個環境的一個變化那你們也應該要做調整不是嗎\n是的所以跟委員報告比如說我剛剛講離岸風力發電我們就投注一些人力做這樣子的檢查那那個呃太陽能發電現在很多對推那個物理型太陽能發太陽能電板我們認為那也是高風險所以你在講也只是就是單一的項目啦那個我覺得我們事後可以你再好好的詳細跟本本辦公室做報告那因為這個勞動的年報的主要資料他\n這個資料它主要是有分為這個勞動條件還有職業安全衛生兩個不同領域的檢查那實際上呢在你們的這個執行的程序是依照這個勞動檢查法那我要請問就是說你們的這個檢查員名稱是不是叫勞動檢查員是的好那我記得之前齁這個外送平台的這個勞動權益跟這個僱傭關係也是你們職安署認定的嘛對不對\n我還是要提醒你我的問題沒有太復雜你就直接簡單回答就好了那在這個我們過去在討論這個勞基法修法的時候勞動檢查勞動條件的檢查也是你們執行的嗎不是嗎\n執行端是我們職安署配合各地方政府的聘用檢察員做執行的沒有錯\n反正就不是要叫調評司嗎那你們負責的業務早就已經超過這個職業安全衛生的業務那有越來越多的這個勞動者的權益要靠你們去保護所以你們出版的年報呢也叫做這個勞動檢查年報那檢查員也叫做勞動檢查員那平台作業工作者的勞動權益跟安全跟安全\n安全衛生也是你們在保護只是說本期覺得很疑惑的一件事就是你們都還是叫做這個職業安全衛生署那感覺是這個名稱跟實際的狀況是名不符實你都笑了好那接下來我想部長休息夠了可以請部長上來\n今年剛好是這個職安署成立10週年那10年前這個勞委會的勞工安全衛生研究所升格為勞動部的這個勞動及職業安全衛生研究所\n我有提出來就是說經過這10年的變遷你們的這個職安所應該要升格為勞動及職業安全衛生署明確的把這個職權跟組織的功能然後做一個完整的盤點跟討論我希望我今天提出這個部長不要反對\n我們再研議看看好嗎委員這個就是讓你們明復其實應該不是太困難他就是一個名稱這樣子因為這牽涉到其實那個三級機關屬是三級機關那現在都滿了喔除非我去修行政院組織法\n你們可以好好去研議,因為你們這個應該不是,這應該沒有到這麼複雜。不過這也是要修法,就沒有那麼高崗了。\n好謝謝委員謝謝對啊因為有些都已經就有些組別名稱都沒有只有還還有存在也是怪怪的那個我相信部長非常關注這個勞工權益的問題那這裡面呢不是只有職業安全衛生業務而已那現今的這個勞動條件還有職災勞工保護的業務都跟10年前其實是很不一樣的那麼例如說這個職災勞工保護法已經落日了\n但是呢就是現在已經是被這個勞工職業災害保險及保護法所取代但是這個職保組的業務呢也已經轉移給這個勞保局了那在你們第二任署長就是那個劉傳明很會畫國畫那個畫機的那位\n就是調平司司長去接任那個職安署署長而且他就很喜歡很喜歡講號稱這個聲稱這個牢條大軍說準備好了那尤其是現在很多的這個勞動新興議題還有職場精神不法傷害侵害還有性騷擾性別平等等還有就業歧視勞保投送勞保投保還有這個外籍勞工等等都跟你們職安署的業務是有關係的所以很多的這個新興的職業病\n﹝講解中﹞\n這個也要拜託就是那個部裡面還有我們整個衛環委員會的同仁大家一起來思考職安署升格的必要性我相信你們應該是改名啦是改組織才要調整然後還有裡面那個這個修法之後這個已經不見得卻還存在的這個看要怎麼處理\n你們是不是可以在一個月內演繹好來委員其實我們勞動部裡面的更迫切要面臨那個組織調整的還蠻多的沒關係我們可以再跟委員好好的來討論我們每個人關注的面向不同但是但是有問題大家就是會提出來提醒部長這就是我們的工作那這個也沒有說因為太多我們就得先怎麼樣就是都很重要都要一起做好謝謝謝謝謝謝陳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.214 --> 00:42.378\n謝謝主席那個部長先不用上來等你休息一下那我先請那個治安署周署長周署長部長下半場再上來就好了好署長好今天我想要針對就這一年我們這個職災現況跟趨勢來討論首先我們看一下這個簡報就是今年113年重大職災死亡的預期人數是多少\n\n00:45.104 --> 01:08.573\n我們沒有預期要死亡人數,我們希望降低到這個標準值以下。沒有預期?就沒有預期?我原先這樣講,我們比如今天最後打擊人﹖我們沒有設標準嗎?有,今天最後打擊人是平均過去3年最弱的死亡事件總共是平均97人。我們希望降到﹖重大之災,平均97人喔?我想最弱的。\n\n01:09.480 --> 01:10.821\n從那個年初到現在已經有多少人不幸死亡了?\n\n01:38.826 --> 01:55.076\n目前我們手邊統計是210人。210人。是。好。那你覺得今年會不會超過往年的一個平均值?我們希望能夠比去年降低。\n\n01:59.328 --> 02:20.680\n去年是多少?那你說現在截至目前為止已經多少了?210人了好那這個部分因為已經200多人了我沒有很樂觀但我希望他最後可以不要超過在去年\n\n02:26.242 --> 02:47.428\n112年的這個職災千人率是不是歷史新低千人率不會是依照勞保的幾副作主目前我們數字確實是歷年新低好那如果是歷史新低的話但是我們看這個重大職災死亡的人數他還是偏高的所以我要請教就署長你個人你相信哪個指標\n\n02:48.528 --> 03:03.949\n報告委員指南幾乎是一個指標那我們的重大指南死亡人數是法令強制規定一定要做通報跟進入檢查的那牽連率部分有包括死亡失能跟傷病所以死亡部分在裡面比例是相對是低的\n\n03:05.987 --> 03:33.036\n我其實是問的這個職災千人率跟那個重大職災死亡人數這兩個是你覺得這兩個的指標你覺得哪一個是比較精準的精準的部分是我們重大職災死亡人數這個我們接受通報檢查的部分那勞保的幾部有人是沒有投勞保或是勞保沒有幾部對嘛那所以這個職災千人率的部分嘛因為現在是主要是這個\n\n03:35.877 --> 03:46.567\n蘇志的走向是有點奇怪啊照理來講是應該是個正常來說是應該是平行但是我們現在還出現一個交叉這是很奇怪的事情嗎\n\n03:48.939 --> 04:14.673\n我想是這樣這個也讓社會各界就搞不清楚到底他該相信這個重大職災的這個死亡人數還是這個職災千人率還創歷年新低這個大家會覺得很疑惑啊你如果職災千人率已經降低很多的話那你怎麼那個重大職災死亡人數一直在飆高這兩個就反方向了嘛\n\n04:15.313 --> 04:39.820\n那我上個月齁我是我終於在上個月上個月就9月嘛齁收到你們112年勞動統計的年報那因為過去呢我也有提過往年其實都是7月就出來了但是現在好像越來越慢了又等到9月欸這是什麼原因啊報告委員我們每年的勞動勞動檢查統計年報都是大概都是7、8月出來沒有錯\n\n04:42.631 --> 04:48.226\n今年6月就上去,印製比較久一點\n\n04:52.076 --> 05:18.821\n好我希望都可以準時好不好是我們在努力因為不是每個人都可以拿到拿到就是有些人有些人拿到紙本有些人上網看這樣子很不統一啦又落差這麼久的時間還有就是說因為你們歷年的資料我去比對了一下發現這個勞動檢查場次的增加好像跟實在的減少沒有什麼關係署長你針對這樣的狀況你有什麼看法是因為我們檢查的品質下降了嗎\n\n05:40.074 --> 06:00.811\n所以我們當然會檢討說我們的檢查效能到底能不能控制災害的不要再繼續往上我講數字是會說話的嘛目前這樣看起來是沒有嘛所以如果你說這個也要因應這個我們整個社會邊牽還有整個環境的一個變化那你們也應該要做調整不是嗎\n\n06:01.997 --> 06:24.456\n是的所以跟委員報告比如說我剛剛講離岸風力發電我們就投注一些人力做這樣子的檢查那那個呃太陽能發電現在很多對推那個物理型太陽能發太陽能電板我們認為那也是高風險所以你在講也只是就是單一的項目啦那個我覺得我們事後可以你再好好的詳細跟本本辦公室做報告那因為這個勞動的年報的主要資料他\n\n06:26.382 --> 06:51.675\n這個資料它主要是有分為這個勞動條件還有職業安全衛生兩個不同領域的檢查那實際上呢在你們的這個執行的程序是依照這個勞動檢查法那我要請問就是說你們的這個檢查員名稱是不是叫勞動檢查員是的好那我記得之前齁這個外送平台的這個勞動權益跟這個僱傭關係也是你們職安署認定的嘛對不對\n\n06:52.472 --> 06:56.894\n我還是要提醒你我的問題沒有太復雜你就直接簡單回答就好了那在這個我們過去在討論這個勞基法修法的時候勞動檢查勞動條件的檢查也是你們執行的嗎不是嗎\n\n07:23.131 --> 07:27.802\n執行端是我們職安署配合各地方政府的聘用檢察員做執行的沒有錯\n\n07:28.676 --> 07:53.013\n反正就不是要叫調評司嗎那你們負責的業務早就已經超過這個職業安全衛生的業務那有越來越多的這個勞動者的權益要靠你們去保護所以你們出版的年報呢也叫做這個勞動檢查年報那檢查員也叫做勞動檢查員那平台作業工作者的勞動權益跟安全跟安全\n\n07:54.514 --> 08:13.449\n安全衛生也是你們在保護只是說本期覺得很疑惑的一件事就是你們都還是叫做這個職業安全衛生署那感覺是這個名稱跟實際的狀況是名不符實你都笑了好那接下來我想部長休息夠了可以請部長上來\n\n08:15.851 --> 08:30.686\n今年剛好是這個職安署成立10週年那10年前這個勞委會的勞工安全衛生研究所升格為勞動部的這個勞動及職業安全衛生研究所\n\n08:32.388 --> 08:50.547\n我有提出來就是說經過這10年的變遷你們的這個職安所應該要升格為勞動及職業安全衛生署明確的把這個職權跟組織的功能然後做一個完整的盤點跟討論我希望我今天提出這個部長不要反對\n\n08:53.015 --> 09:14.192\n我們再研議看看好嗎委員這個就是讓你們明復其實應該不是太困難他就是一個名稱這樣子因為這牽涉到其實那個三級機關屬是三級機關那現在都滿了喔除非我去修行政院組織法\n\n09:15.595 --> 09:20.659\n你們可以好好去研議,因為你們這個應該不是,這應該沒有到這麼複雜。不過這也是要修法,就沒有那麼高崗了。\n\n09:31.107 --> 09:59.578\n好謝謝委員謝謝對啊因為有些都已經就有些組別名稱都沒有只有還還有存在也是怪怪的那個我相信部長非常關注這個勞工權益的問題那這裡面呢不是只有職業安全衛生業務而已那現今的這個勞動條件還有職災勞工保護的業務都跟10年前其實是很不一樣的那麼例如說這個職災勞工保護法已經落日了\n\n10:00.629 --> 10:14.599\n但是呢就是現在已經是被這個勞工職業災害保險及保護法所取代但是這個職保組的業務呢也已經轉移給這個勞保局了那在你們第二任署長就是那個劉傳明很會畫國畫那個畫機的那位\n\n10:18.422 --> 10:45.057\n就是調平司司長去接任那個職安署署長而且他就很喜歡很喜歡講號稱這個聲稱這個牢條大軍說準備好了那尤其是現在很多的這個勞動新興議題還有職場精神不法傷害侵害還有性騷擾性別平等等還有就業歧視勞保投送勞保投保還有這個外籍勞工等等都跟你們職安署的業務是有關係的所以很多的這個新興的職業病\n\n10:46.318 --> 10:46.438\n﹝講解中﹞\n\n11:08.652 --> 11:33.630\n這個也要拜託就是那個部裡面還有我們整個衛環委員會的同仁大家一起來思考職安署升格的必要性我相信你們應該是改名啦是改組織才要調整然後還有裡面那個這個修法之後這個已經不見得卻還存在的這個看要怎麼處理\n\n11:35.251 --> 12:01.343\n你們是不是可以在一個月內演繹好來委員其實我們勞動部裡面的更迫切要面臨那個組織調整的還蠻多的沒關係我們可以再跟委員好好的來討論我們每個人關注的面向不同但是但是有問題大家就是會提出來提醒部長這就是我們的工作那這個也沒有說因為太多我們就得先怎麼樣就是都很重要都要一起做好謝謝謝謝謝謝陳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.214,"end":42.378,"text":"謝謝主席那個部長先不用上來等你休息一下那我先請那個治安署周署長周署長部長下半場再上來就好了好署長好今天我想要針對就這一年我們這個職災現況跟趨勢來討論首先我們看一下這個簡報就是今年113年重大職災死亡的預期人數是多少"},{"start":45.104,"end":68.573,"text":"我們沒有預期要死亡人數,我們希望降低到這個標準值以下。沒有預期?就沒有預期?我原先這樣講,我們比如今天最後打擊人﹖我們沒有設標準嗎?有,今天最後打擊人是平均過去3年最弱的死亡事件總共是平均97人。我們希望降到﹖重大之災,平均97人喔?我想最弱的。"},{"start":69.48,"end":70.821,"text":"從那個年初到現在已經有多少人不幸死亡了?"},{"start":98.826,"end":115.076,"text":"目前我們手邊統計是210人。210人。是。好。那你覺得今年會不會超過往年的一個平均值?我們希望能夠比去年降低。"},{"start":119.328,"end":140.68,"text":"去年是多少?那你說現在截至目前為止已經多少了?210人了好那這個部分因為已經200多人了我沒有很樂觀但我希望他最後可以不要超過在去年"},{"start":146.242,"end":167.428,"text":"112年的這個職災千人率是不是歷史新低千人率不會是依照勞保的幾副作主目前我們數字確實是歷年新低好那如果是歷史新低的話但是我們看這個重大職災死亡的人數他還是偏高的所以我要請教就署長你個人你相信哪個指標"},{"start":168.528,"end":183.949,"text":"報告委員指南幾乎是一個指標那我們的重大指南死亡人數是法令強制規定一定要做通報跟進入檢查的那牽連率部分有包括死亡失能跟傷病所以死亡部分在裡面比例是相對是低的"},{"start":185.987,"end":213.036,"text":"我其實是問的這個職災千人率跟那個重大職災死亡人數這兩個是你覺得這兩個的指標你覺得哪一個是比較精準的精準的部分是我們重大職災死亡人數這個我們接受通報檢查的部分那勞保的幾部有人是沒有投勞保或是勞保沒有幾部對嘛那所以這個職災千人率的部分嘛因為現在是主要是這個"},{"start":215.877,"end":226.567,"text":"蘇志的走向是有點奇怪啊照理來講是應該是個正常來說是應該是平行但是我們現在還出現一個交叉這是很奇怪的事情嗎"},{"start":228.939,"end":254.673,"text":"我想是這樣這個也讓社會各界就搞不清楚到底他該相信這個重大職災的這個死亡人數還是這個職災千人率還創歷年新低這個大家會覺得很疑惑啊你如果職災千人率已經降低很多的話那你怎麼那個重大職災死亡人數一直在飆高這兩個就反方向了嘛"},{"start":255.313,"end":279.82,"text":"那我上個月齁我是我終於在上個月上個月就9月嘛齁收到你們112年勞動統計的年報那因為過去呢我也有提過往年其實都是7月就出來了但是現在好像越來越慢了又等到9月欸這是什麼原因啊報告委員我們每年的勞動勞動檢查統計年報都是大概都是7、8月出來沒有錯"},{"start":282.631,"end":288.226,"text":"今年6月就上去,印製比較久一點"},{"start":292.076,"end":318.821,"text":"好我希望都可以準時好不好是我們在努力因為不是每個人都可以拿到拿到就是有些人有些人拿到紙本有些人上網看這樣子很不統一啦又落差這麼久的時間還有就是說因為你們歷年的資料我去比對了一下發現這個勞動檢查場次的增加好像跟實在的減少沒有什麼關係署長你針對這樣的狀況你有什麼看法是因為我們檢查的品質下降了嗎"},{"start":319.241,"end":339.974,"text":"﹖"},{"start":340.074,"end":360.811,"text":"所以我們當然會檢討說我們的檢查效能到底能不能控制災害的不要再繼續往上我講數字是會說話的嘛目前這樣看起來是沒有嘛所以如果你說這個也要因應這個我們整個社會邊牽還有整個環境的一個變化那你們也應該要做調整不是嗎"},{"start":361.997,"end":384.456,"text":"是的所以跟委員報告比如說我剛剛講離岸風力發電我們就投注一些人力做這樣子的檢查那那個呃太陽能發電現在很多對推那個物理型太陽能發太陽能電板我們認為那也是高風險所以你在講也只是就是單一的項目啦那個我覺得我們事後可以你再好好的詳細跟本本辦公室做報告那因為這個勞動的年報的主要資料他"},{"start":386.382,"end":411.675,"text":"這個資料它主要是有分為這個勞動條件還有職業安全衛生兩個不同領域的檢查那實際上呢在你們的這個執行的程序是依照這個勞動檢查法那我要請問就是說你們的這個檢查員名稱是不是叫勞動檢查員是的好那我記得之前齁這個外送平台的這個勞動權益跟這個僱傭關係也是你們職安署認定的嘛對不對"},{"start":412.472,"end":416.894,"text":"我還是要提醒你我的問題沒有太復雜你就直接簡單回答就好了那在這個我們過去在討論這個勞基法修法的時候勞動檢查勞動條件的檢查也是你們執行的嗎不是嗎"},{"start":443.131,"end":447.802,"text":"執行端是我們職安署配合各地方政府的聘用檢察員做執行的沒有錯"},{"start":448.676,"end":473.013,"text":"反正就不是要叫調評司嗎那你們負責的業務早就已經超過這個職業安全衛生的業務那有越來越多的這個勞動者的權益要靠你們去保護所以你們出版的年報呢也叫做這個勞動檢查年報那檢查員也叫做勞動檢查員那平台作業工作者的勞動權益跟安全跟安全"},{"start":474.514,"end":493.449,"text":"安全衛生也是你們在保護只是說本期覺得很疑惑的一件事就是你們都還是叫做這個職業安全衛生署那感覺是這個名稱跟實際的狀況是名不符實你都笑了好那接下來我想部長休息夠了可以請部長上來"},{"start":495.851,"end":510.686,"text":"今年剛好是這個職安署成立10週年那10年前這個勞委會的勞工安全衛生研究所升格為勞動部的這個勞動及職業安全衛生研究所"},{"start":512.388,"end":530.547,"text":"我有提出來就是說經過這10年的變遷你們的這個職安所應該要升格為勞動及職業安全衛生署明確的把這個職權跟組織的功能然後做一個完整的盤點跟討論我希望我今天提出這個部長不要反對"},{"start":533.015,"end":554.192,"text":"我們再研議看看好嗎委員這個就是讓你們明復其實應該不是太困難他就是一個名稱這樣子因為這牽涉到其實那個三級機關屬是三級機關那現在都滿了喔除非我去修行政院組織法"},{"start":555.595,"end":560.659,"text":"你們可以好好去研議,因為你們這個應該不是,這應該沒有到這麼複雜。不過這也是要修法,就沒有那麼高崗了。"},{"start":571.107,"end":599.578,"text":"好謝謝委員謝謝對啊因為有些都已經就有些組別名稱都沒有只有還還有存在也是怪怪的那個我相信部長非常關注這個勞工權益的問題那這裡面呢不是只有職業安全衛生業務而已那現今的這個勞動條件還有職災勞工保護的業務都跟10年前其實是很不一樣的那麼例如說這個職災勞工保護法已經落日了"},{"start":600.629,"end":614.599,"text":"但是呢就是現在已經是被這個勞工職業災害保險及保護法所取代但是這個職保組的業務呢也已經轉移給這個勞保局了那在你們第二任署長就是那個劉傳明很會畫國畫那個畫機的那位"},{"start":618.422,"end":645.057,"text":"就是調平司司長去接任那個職安署署長而且他就很喜歡很喜歡講號稱這個聲稱這個牢條大軍說準備好了那尤其是現在很多的這個勞動新興議題還有職場精神不法傷害侵害還有性騷擾性別平等等還有就業歧視勞保投送勞保投保還有這個外籍勞工等等都跟你們職安署的業務是有關係的所以很多的這個新興的職業病"},{"start":646.318,"end":646.438,"text":" ﹝講解中﹞"},{"start":668.652,"end":693.63,"text":"這個也要拜託就是那個部裡面還有我們整個衛環委員會的同仁大家一起來思考職安署升格的必要性我相信你們應該是改名啦是改組織才要調整然後還有裡面那個這個修法之後這個已經不見得卻還存在的這個看要怎麼處理"},{"start":695.251,"end":721.343,"text":"你們是不是可以在一個月內演繹好來委員其實我們勞動部裡面的更迫切要面臨那個組織調整的還蠻多的沒關係我們可以再跟委員好好的來討論我們每個人關注的面向不同但是但是有問題大家就是會提出來提醒部長這就是我們的工作那這個也沒有說因為太多我們就得先怎麼樣就是都很重要都要一起做好謝謝謝謝謝謝陳委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":4,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:36:12 - 11:48:16","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","id":155560,"gazette":{"lineno":918,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（11時36分）謝謝主席。部長先不用上來，可以休息一下，我先請職安署鄒署長。"],["主席：鄒署長。"],["陳委員瑩：部長下半場再上來就好了。","署長好，今天我想要針對這一年職災現況跟趨勢來討論。首先我們來看一下這個簡報，今年（113年）重大職災死亡的預期人數是多少？"],["鄒署長子廉：我們沒有預期死亡的人數，我們希望降低到這個標準值以下。"],["陳委員瑩：沒有預期？"],["鄒署長子廉：委員，應該這樣講，比如說今年……"],["陳委員瑩：你們沒有設標準嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：有。今年是墜落打擊年，過去三年平均死亡人數是97人，我們希望能降到……"],["陳委員瑩：重大職災平均97人？"],["鄒署長子廉：我講的是墜落的，營造墜落的。"],["陳委員瑩：好，你要從好的開始講也可以啦。"],["鄒署長子廉：沒有，營造業是最不好的，跟委員報告。"],["陳委員瑩：但是年平均就差不多300吧？"],["鄒署長子廉：對，去年的死亡人數是300人，前年是320人。"],["陳委員瑩：對啊，跟你報的97人，這個感覺就是從比較優的報起，不是嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：報告委員，營造業發生職災是職災中占最大比例的，占一半以上，墜落……"],["陳委員瑩：好啦，那我問你，從今年初到現在，已經有多少人不幸死亡？"],["鄒署長子廉：目前我們手邊統計是210人。"],["陳委員瑩：210人？"],["鄒署長子廉：是。到9月底。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那你覺得今年會不會超過往年的平均值？"],["鄒署長子廉：報告委員，我們希望能夠比去年降低到一定的程度，如果依照我們現在的……"],["陳委員瑩：去年是多少？"],["鄒署長子廉：去年300人。重大災死亡人數。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那你說，截至目前為止，已經多少了？"],["鄒署長子廉：210人。"],["陳委員瑩：210人了。好，這個部分因為已經兩百多人了，我沒有很樂觀，但我希望最後可以不要超過。"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員，我們會努力。"],["陳委員瑩：在去年（112年）的職災千人率是不是歷史新低？"],["鄒署長子廉：千人率部分是依照勞保的給付部分處置，目前我們的數字確實是歷年新低。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那如果是歷史新低的話，但是我們看這個重大職災死亡的人數，還是偏高的，所以我要請教，就署長你個人，你相信哪個指標？"],["鄒署長子廉：報告委員，職災給付是一個指標，我們的重大職災死亡人數是法令強制規定一定要做通報跟檢查的，千人率的部分包括死亡、失能跟傷病，所以死亡的部分在裡面的比例相對是低的。"],["陳委員瑩：我其實是問職災千人率跟重大職災死亡人數這兩個，你覺得這兩個指標哪一個是比較精準的？"],["鄒署長子廉：精準的部分是我們重大職災死亡人數，這個是我們接受通報檢查的部分，至於勞保給付，有人沒有投勞保，或者是勞保沒有給付。"],["陳委員瑩：對嘛，所以這個職災千人率的部分，因為現在主要是這個數字的走向有一點奇怪，照理來講，正常來說，應該是平行線，但是現在還出現一個交叉，這是很奇怪的事情嘛。那我想這個也讓社會各界搞不清楚，到底該相信重大職災的死亡人數，還是創歷年新低的職災千人率？大家會覺得很疑惑，如果職災千人率已經降低很多的話，那怎麼重大職災死亡人數一直在飆高？兩個就反方向了嘛。我終於在上個月，就是9月，收到你們112年勞動統計的年報，過去我也有提過，往年其實都是7月就出來了，但是現在好像越來越慢了，要等到9月，這是什麼原因？"],["鄒署長子廉：報告委員，我們每年勞動檢查統計年報都是7、8月出來，沒有錯，因為我們要蒐集……"],["陳委員瑩：那今年呢？"],["鄒署長子廉：今年的部分……"],["許組長莉瑩：官網是6月就上去，印製比較久一點。"],["鄒署長子廉：我們今年6月就出來，印製是要有點時間。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我希望都可以準時，好不好？"],["鄒署長子廉：是，我們來努力。"],["陳委員瑩：因為不是每個人都可以拿到，有些人拿到紙本，有些人上網看，這樣子很不統一，又差這麼久的時間。","還有就是說，你們歷年的資料我去比對了一下，發現勞動檢查場次的增加好像跟職災的減少沒有什麼關係，針對這樣的狀況，你有什麼看法？是因為檢查的品質下降了嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，因為我們產業一直在變動，比如這兩、三年我們注重營造業的檢查之外，因為新能源的產生，包括離岸風力發電或太陽能發電，我們也把檢查人力放在這塊做努力，所以受產業變化影響，我們執行的部分都是用風險分級去看這個成效。"],["陳委員瑩：你說什麼？"],["鄒署長子廉：用風險分級去做檢查。所以我們當然會檢討我們的檢查效能到底能不能控制災害不要再繼續往上升。"],["陳委員瑩：我想數字是會說話的，因為目前這樣看起來是沒有嘛，所以如果你說要因應整個社會變遷和整個環境的變化，那你們也應該要做調整，不是嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：是的。所以跟委員報告，比如說，我剛剛講離岸風力發電，我們就投注一些人力做這樣子的檢查，再說太陽能發電，現在很多在推物理型太陽能電板，我們認為那也是高風險，所以我們……"],["陳委員瑩：你在講的只是單一的項目，我覺得那個我們事後可以請你再好好地詳細跟本辦公室做報告。"],["鄒署長子廉：是。"],["陳委員瑩：這個勞動年報資料主要是分為勞動條件、職業安全衛生兩個不同領域的檢查，實際上，你們的執行程序是依照勞動檢查法，我要請問的是，你們的檢查員名稱是不是叫勞動檢查員？"],["鄒署長子廉：是的。"],["陳委員瑩：好。我記得之前討論的外送平台的勞動權益跟僱傭關係，也是你們職安署認定的嘛，對不對？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員報告，5年前委員也在立法院，那時候平台對外送員的指揮監督是很強烈的，依照我們現在勞基法和承攬契約的規定，我們那時候認定是僱傭關係沒錯。"],["陳委員瑩：我還是要提醒你，我的問題沒有太複雜，你直接簡單回答就好了。"],["鄒署長子廉：是。"],["陳委員瑩：我們過去在討論勞基法修法的時候，勞動條件的檢查也是你們執行的，不是嗎？"],["鄒署長子廉：執行端是我們職安署配合各地方政府的檢查員來執行，沒有錯。"],["陳委員瑩：反正就不是叫條平司，你們負責的業務早就已經超過職業安全衛生的業務，有越來越多勞動者的權益要靠你們去保護，所以你們出版的年報，也叫做勞動檢查年報，檢查員也叫做勞動檢查員，那平台作業工作者的勞動權益跟安全衛生，也是你們在保護，只是說，本席覺得很疑惑的一件事，就是你們都還是叫做職業安全衛生署，感覺是這個名稱跟實際的狀況是名不符實。你都笑了。","好，接下來，我想部長休息夠了，可以請部長上來。今年剛好是職安署成立十周年，十年前勞委會的勞工安全衛生研究所升格為勞動部的勞動及職業安全衛生研究所，我有提出來，經過這十年的變遷，你們的職安所也應該要升格為勞動及職業安全衛生署，明確地把職權跟組織的功能做一個完整地盤點跟討論，我今天提出這個，我希望部長不要反對。"],["何部長佩珊：我們再研議看看好嗎？委員。組織調整的東西還牽涉到……"],["陳委員瑩：名符其實應該不是太困難，就是一個名稱。"],["何部長佩珊：其實署是三級機關，現在都滿了，除非我去修行政院組織法。"],["陳委員瑩：你們可以好好去研議，這個應該沒有這麼複雜。"],["何部長佩珊：好，不過這也是要修法。"],["陳委員瑩：就沒有那麼費工。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：對啊。因為有些連組別名稱都沒有，最後還存在，也是怪怪的。","我相信部長非常關注勞工權益的問題，這裡面不是只有職業安全衛生業務而已，現今的勞動條件、職災、勞工保護的業務，都跟十年前是很不一樣的，例如說，職災勞工保護法已經落日了，現在已經被勞工職業災害保險及保護法所取代，職保組的業務也已經轉移給勞保局了，在你們第二任署長，就是劉傳名，很會畫國畫、會畫雞的那位，就是條平司司長兼任職安署署長，而且他很喜歡聲稱勞條大軍準備好了，尤其是現在很多的勞動新興議題，有職場精神不法侵害，有性騷擾、性別平等爭議，還有就業歧視、勞保投保，還有外籍勞工等等，都跟你們職安署的業務是有關係的，很多新興的職業病，例如COVID-19和高溫，都跟勞動條件和職業壓力有關，所以未來的職業災害預防已經整個跳脫傳統的思維。部長，我剛剛的提議，希望你能夠慎重地去考慮，然後可以落實執行。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["陳委員瑩：也要拜託部裡面和我們整個衛環委員會的同仁，大家一起來思考職安署升格的必要性，我相信你們會……"],["何部長佩珊：應該是改名。"],["陳委員瑩：對。"],["何部長佩珊：是改組和調整名稱？"],["陳委員瑩：對。然後還有修法之後名稱已經不見了實質卻還存在的單位，看要怎麼處理。你們是不是可以在一個月內研議？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們勞動部裡面更迫切要面臨組織調整的單位還滿多的，沒關係，我們可以再跟委員好好地來討論。"],["陳委員瑩：每個人關注的面向不同，但是有問題大家就是會提出來提醒部長，這就是我們的工作。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["陳委員瑩：這個也沒有說因為太多我們就得先怎麼樣，就是都很重要，都要一起做。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝、謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}}