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\"start\": 408.174, \"end\": 408.294, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 408.294, \"end\": 408.354, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"謹\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 408.354, \"end\": 408.374, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"慎\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 408.374, \"end\": 408.394, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,460\n主席謝謝我們請經濟部國部長請國部長\n\n2\n00:00:27,725 --> 00:00:28,225\n國電力是國力,這你認同嗎?\n\n3\n00:00:51,167 --> 00:01:11,315\n認同那如果說我們未來要針對相關的這些電是不是在我們台灣本地生產不是在台灣本地來發電而是要由外部來做這樣的一個運輸的話你覺得先決條件是不是就會變成是這個命脈發電命脈掌握在別人的一個土地身上\n\n4\n00:01:12,401 --> 00:01:20,463\n提過這樣子的一個構想、想法有沒有找我們國安單位這邊來討論看看?或是說請教國安單位的意見?還沒有所以這完全就是就像你講的快人快語\n\n5\n00:01:40,757 --> 00:01:41,238\n不可能,為什麼?\n\n6\n00:02:03,410 --> 00:02:28,550\n因為這完全是你天馬行空的想法沒有跟任何人討論過我跟委員報告這個是這樣子在全球現在這個綠電都是大家關心的命題那麼我們可以看到這個新加坡他從澳洲要買這個綠電太陽能綠電那從澳洲到新加坡大概4300公里\n\n7\n00:02:30,371 --> 00:02:55,708\n現在還是持續在討論但是這是一個事實第二個英國英國從非洲透過4000公里他也是要再買綠電也就是說有綠電生產的國家有這個條件但他綠電的發電成本就非常的低所以透過這個海覽的方式其實這個是我們看到一個新的事實\n\n8\n00:02:57,028 --> 00:03:22,754\n那我在講這個事情的時候其實是因為這個民主同盟也非常關心這樣子的一個命題因為將來2050年要進行減碳所以大家為了快一點讓綠能都上來的時候因為綠能其實這個只要經濟規模我想委員非常清楚只要經濟規模到達了它的成本其實是低的那我在想我說我如何讓台灣\n\n9\n00:03:24,714 --> 00:03:51,049\n這些廠商更有這個世界的競爭力就是說你在台灣做這個綠能的太陽能發電的或者是風力發電的台灣就這麼小的一個島所以你能夠做的其實是非常有限那我們台灣就是要多元的綠能那我在講菲律賓這個命題其實是菲律賓的總統跟日本的首相跟美國的總統在今年的4月\n\n10\n00:03:52,096 --> 00:04:00,988\n他們簽訂了一個旅送經濟走廊這樣的一個合約來部長我先拉回來阿你剛剛講到廠商的部分對不對所以就會讓大家\n\n11\n00:04:22,202 --> 00:04:47,258\n那你又講說沒有這個是你天馬行空的想法連跟最基本的國安單位也都沒有討論過沒有錯因為我剛剛在外交國防委員會我請教國安局局長啊我說國安局到底有沒有做過評估如果說我們的電我們的戰略物資居然是要從國外進口那無怪乎大家會質疑啊無怪乎大家會覺得是說今天菲律賓政府\n\n12\n00:04:48,178 --> 00:05:03,081\n之前的領導人相對比較親中現在的領導人可能親美但會不會換了領導人之後就有換不同的一個角度政策政治我同意委員你的想法我們有辦法掌握嗎這一點才是所以部長你今天講出來的這些狀況會不會真的太噁心會怎麼樣會不會太噁心會不會讓我們這兩天\n\n13\n00:05:14,022 --> 00:05:17,824\n部長清楚菲律賓的電價跟台灣的電價比較嗎?\n\n14\n00:05:44,445 --> 00:05:44,605\n實在話講我覺得還是\n\n15\n00:05:59,844 --> 00:06:27,961\n拉回來能源是務實的選項能源不是天馬行空的幻想能源是每天大家都要用的能源也是實實在在的數字沒有美化數字沒有虛冠數字沒有作假數字有就有沒有就沒有會去想不是從我們台灣內部來發電而是想是說從外部然後怎麼樣來跟人家每多一分其實就是把我講實在話講部長\n\n16\n00:06:29,922 --> 00:06:46,823\n如果說這個話是相對來說這個其他我們在野黨民意代表講出來說不定他徹意已經泡翻了就是說你根本就是把台灣的經濟命脈把台灣的能源掌握在別人手裡所以你的天馬行空你的\n\n17\n00:06:48,114 --> 00:06:48,394\n這個我以後會謹言慎行\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n520\t1460\t主席謝謝我們請經濟部國部長請國部長\n27725\t28225\t國電力是國力,這你認同嗎?\n51167\t71315\t認同那如果說我們未來要針對相關的這些電是不是在我們台灣本地生產不是在台灣本地來發電而是要由外部來做這樣的一個運輸的話你覺得先決條件是不是就會變成是這個命脈發電命脈掌握在別人的一個土地身上\n72401\t80463\t提過這樣子的一個構想、想法有沒有找我們國安單位這邊來討論看看?或是說請教國安單位的意見?還沒有所以這完全就是就像你講的快人快語\n100757\t101238\t不可能,為什麼?\n123410\t148550\t因為這完全是你天馬行空的想法沒有跟任何人討論過我跟委員報告這個是這樣子在全球現在這個綠電都是大家關心的命題那麼我們可以看到這個新加坡他從澳洲要買這個綠電太陽能綠電那從澳洲到新加坡大概4300公里\n150371\t175708\t現在還是持續在討論但是這是一個事實第二個英國英國從非洲透過4000公里他也是要再買綠電也就是說有綠電生產的國家有這個條件但他綠電的發電成本就非常的低所以透過這個海覽的方式其實這個是我們看到一個新的事實\n177028\t202754\t那我在講這個事情的時候其實是因為這個民主同盟也非常關心這樣子的一個命題因為將來2050年要進行減碳所以大家為了快一點讓綠能都上來的時候因為綠能其實這個只要經濟規模我想委員非常清楚只要經濟規模到達了它的成本其實是低的那我在想我說我如何讓台灣\n204714\t231049\t這些廠商更有這個世界的競爭力就是說你在台灣做這個綠能的太陽能發電的或者是風力發電的台灣就這麼小的一個島所以你能夠做的其實是非常有限那我們台灣就是要多元的綠能那我在講菲律賓這個命題其實是菲律賓的總統跟日本的首相跟美國的總統在今年的4月\n232096\t240988\t他們簽訂了一個旅送經濟走廊這樣的一個合約來部長我先拉回來阿你剛剛講到廠商的部分對不對所以就會讓大家\n242090\t262142\t對﹖\n262202\t287258\t那你又講說沒有這個是你天馬行空的想法連跟最基本的國安單位也都沒有討論過沒有錯因為我剛剛在外交國防委員會我請教國安局局長啊我說國安局到底有沒有做過評估如果說我們的電我們的戰略物資居然是要從國外進口那無怪乎大家會質疑啊無怪乎大家會覺得是說今天菲律賓政府\n288178\t303081\t之前的領導人相對比較親中現在的領導人可能親美但會不會換了領導人之後就有換不同的一個角度 政策 政治我同意委員你的想法我們有辦法掌握嗎這一點才是 所以部長你今天講出來的這些狀況會不會真的太噁心會怎麼樣會不會太噁心會不會讓我們這兩天\n314022\t317824\t部長清楚菲律賓的電價跟台灣的電價比較嗎?\n344445\t344605\t實在話講我覺得還是\n359844\t387961\t拉回來能源是務實的選項能源不是天馬行空的幻想能源是每天大家都要用的能源也是實實在在的數字沒有美化數字沒有虛冠數字沒有作假數字有就有沒有就沒有會去想不是從我們台灣內部來發電而是想是說從外部然後怎麼樣來跟人家每多一分其實就是把我講實在話講部長\n389922\t406823\t如果說這個話是相對來說這個其他我們在野黨民意代表講出來說不定他徹意已經泡翻了就是說你根本就是把台灣的經濟命脈把台灣的能源掌握在別人手裡所以你的天馬行空你的\n408114\t408394\t這個我以後會謹言慎行\n","txt":"主席謝謝我們請經濟部國部長請國部長\n國電力是國力,這你認同嗎?\n認同那如果說我們未來要針對相關的這些電是不是在我們台灣本地生產不是在台灣本地來發電而是要由外部來做這樣的一個運輸的話你覺得先決條件是不是就會變成是這個命脈發電命脈掌握在別人的一個土地身上\n提過這樣子的一個構想、想法有沒有找我們國安單位這邊來討論看看?或是說請教國安單位的意見?還沒有所以這完全就是就像你講的快人快語\n不可能,為什麼?\n因為這完全是你天馬行空的想法沒有跟任何人討論過我跟委員報告這個是這樣子在全球現在這個綠電都是大家關心的命題那麼我們可以看到這個新加坡他從澳洲要買這個綠電太陽能綠電那從澳洲到新加坡大概4300公里\n現在還是持續在討論但是這是一個事實第二個英國英國從非洲透過4000公里他也是要再買綠電也就是說有綠電生產的國家有這個條件但他綠電的發電成本就非常的低所以透過這個海覽的方式其實這個是我們看到一個新的事實\n那我在講這個事情的時候其實是因為這個民主同盟也非常關心這樣子的一個命題因為將來2050年要進行減碳所以大家為了快一點讓綠能都上來的時候因為綠能其實這個只要經濟規模我想委員非常清楚只要經濟規模到達了它的成本其實是低的那我在想我說我如何讓台灣\n這些廠商更有這個世界的競爭力就是說你在台灣做這個綠能的太陽能發電的或者是風力發電的台灣就這麼小的一個島所以你能夠做的其實是非常有限那我們台灣就是要多元的綠能那我在講菲律賓這個命題其實是菲律賓的總統跟日本的首相跟美國的總統在今年的4月\n他們簽訂了一個旅送經濟走廊這樣的一個合約來部長我先拉回來阿你剛剛講到廠商的部分對不對所以就會讓大家\n對﹖\n那你又講說沒有這個是你天馬行空的想法連跟最基本的國安單位也都沒有討論過沒有錯因為我剛剛在外交國防委員會我請教國安局局長啊我說國安局到底有沒有做過評估如果說我們的電我們的戰略物資居然是要從國外進口那無怪乎大家會質疑啊無怪乎大家會覺得是說今天菲律賓政府\n之前的領導人相對比較親中現在的領導人可能親美但會不會換了領導人之後就有換不同的一個角度 政策 政治我同意委員你的想法我們有辦法掌握嗎這一點才是 所以部長你今天講出來的這些狀況會不會真的太噁心會怎麼樣會不會太噁心會不會讓我們這兩天\n部長清楚菲律賓的電價跟台灣的電價比較嗎?\n實在話講我覺得還是\n拉回來能源是務實的選項能源不是天馬行空的幻想能源是每天大家都要用的能源也是實實在在的數字沒有美化數字沒有虛冠數字沒有作假數字有就有沒有就沒有會去想不是從我們台灣內部來發電而是想是說從外部然後怎麼樣來跟人家每多一分其實就是把我講實在話講部長\n如果說這個話是相對來說這個其他我們在野黨民意代表講出來說不定他徹意已經泡翻了就是說你根本就是把台灣的經濟命脈把台灣的能源掌握在別人手裡所以你的天馬行空你的\n這個我以後會謹言慎行\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.520 --> 00:01.460\n主席謝謝我們請經濟部國部長請國部長\n\n00:27.725 --> 00:28.225\n國電力是國力,這你認同嗎?\n\n00:51.167 --> 01:11.315\n認同那如果說我們未來要針對相關的這些電是不是在我們台灣本地生產不是在台灣本地來發電而是要由外部來做這樣的一個運輸的話你覺得先決條件是不是就會變成是這個命脈發電命脈掌握在別人的一個土地身上\n\n01:12.401 --> 01:20.463\n提過這樣子的一個構想、想法有沒有找我們國安單位這邊來討論看看?或是說請教國安單位的意見?還沒有所以這完全就是就像你講的快人快語\n\n01:40.757 --> 01:41.238\n不可能,為什麼?\n\n02:03.410 --> 02:28.550\n因為這完全是你天馬行空的想法沒有跟任何人討論過我跟委員報告這個是這樣子在全球現在這個綠電都是大家關心的命題那麼我們可以看到這個新加坡他從澳洲要買這個綠電太陽能綠電那從澳洲到新加坡大概4300公里\n\n02:30.371 --> 02:55.708\n現在還是持續在討論但是這是一個事實第二個英國英國從非洲透過4000公里他也是要再買綠電也就是說有綠電生產的國家有這個條件但他綠電的發電成本就非常的低所以透過這個海覽的方式其實這個是我們看到一個新的事實\n\n02:57.028 --> 03:22.754\n那我在講這個事情的時候其實是因為這個民主同盟也非常關心這樣子的一個命題因為將來2050年要進行減碳所以大家為了快一點讓綠能都上來的時候因為綠能其實這個只要經濟規模我想委員非常清楚只要經濟規模到達了它的成本其實是低的那我在想我說我如何讓台灣\n\n03:24.714 --> 03:51.049\n這些廠商更有這個世界的競爭力就是說你在台灣做這個綠能的太陽能發電的或者是風力發電的台灣就這麼小的一個島所以你能夠做的其實是非常有限那我們台灣就是要多元的綠能那我在講菲律賓這個命題其實是菲律賓的總統跟日本的首相跟美國的總統在今年的4月\n\n03:52.096 --> 04:00.988\n他們簽訂了一個旅送經濟走廊這樣的一個合約來部長我先拉回來阿你剛剛講到廠商的部分對不對所以就會讓大家\n\n04:22.202 --> 04:47.258\n那你又講說沒有這個是你天馬行空的想法連跟最基本的國安單位也都沒有討論過沒有錯因為我剛剛在外交國防委員會我請教國安局局長啊我說國安局到底有沒有做過評估如果說我們的電我們的戰略物資居然是要從國外進口那無怪乎大家會質疑啊無怪乎大家會覺得是說今天菲律賓政府\n\n04:48.178 --> 05:03.081\n之前的領導人相對比較親中現在的領導人可能親美但會不會換了領導人之後就有換不同的一個角度政策政治我同意委員你的想法我們有辦法掌握嗎這一點才是所以部長你今天講出來的這些狀況會不會真的太噁心會怎麼樣會不會太噁心會不會讓我們這兩天\n\n05:14.022 --> 05:17.824\n部長清楚菲律賓的電價跟台灣的電價比較嗎?\n\n05:44.445 --> 05:44.605\n實在話講我覺得還是\n\n05:59.844 --> 06:27.961\n拉回來能源是務實的選項能源不是天馬行空的幻想能源是每天大家都要用的能源也是實實在在的數字沒有美化數字沒有虛冠數字沒有作假數字有就有沒有就沒有會去想不是從我們台灣內部來發電而是想是說從外部然後怎麼樣來跟人家每多一分其實就是把我講實在話講部長\n\n06:29.922 --> 06:46.823\n如果說這個話是相對來說這個其他我們在野黨民意代表講出來說不定他徹意已經泡翻了就是說你根本就是把台灣的經濟命脈把台灣的能源掌握在別人手裡所以你的天馬行空你的\n\n06:48.114 --> 06:48.394\n這個我以後會謹言慎行\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.52,"end":1.46,"text":"主席謝謝我們請經濟部國部長請國部長"},{"start":27.725,"end":28.225,"text":"國電力是國力,這你認同嗎?"},{"start":51.167,"end":71.315,"text":"認同那如果說我們未來要針對相關的這些電是不是在我們台灣本地生產不是在台灣本地來發電而是要由外部來做這樣的一個運輸的話你覺得先決條件是不是就會變成是這個命脈發電命脈掌握在別人的一個土地身上"},{"start":72.401,"end":80.463,"text":"提過這樣子的一個構想、想法有沒有找我們國安單位這邊來討論看看?或是說請教國安單位的意見?還沒有所以這完全就是就像你講的快人快語"},{"start":100.757,"end":101.238,"text":"不可能,為什麼?"},{"start":123.41,"end":148.55,"text":"因為這完全是你天馬行空的想法沒有跟任何人討論過我跟委員報告這個是這樣子在全球現在這個綠電都是大家關心的命題那麼我們可以看到這個新加坡他從澳洲要買這個綠電太陽能綠電那從澳洲到新加坡大概4300公里"},{"start":150.371,"end":175.708,"text":"現在還是持續在討論但是這是一個事實第二個英國英國從非洲透過4000公里他也是要再買綠電也就是說有綠電生產的國家有這個條件但他綠電的發電成本就非常的低所以透過這個海覽的方式其實這個是我們看到一個新的事實"},{"start":177.028,"end":202.754,"text":"那我在講這個事情的時候其實是因為這個民主同盟也非常關心這樣子的一個命題因為將來2050年要進行減碳所以大家為了快一點讓綠能都上來的時候因為綠能其實這個只要經濟規模我想委員非常清楚只要經濟規模到達了它的成本其實是低的那我在想我說我如何讓台灣"},{"start":204.714,"end":231.049,"text":"這些廠商更有這個世界的競爭力就是說你在台灣做這個綠能的太陽能發電的或者是風力發電的台灣就這麼小的一個島所以你能夠做的其實是非常有限那我們台灣就是要多元的綠能那我在講菲律賓這個命題其實是菲律賓的總統跟日本的首相跟美國的總統在今年的4月"},{"start":232.096,"end":240.988,"text":"他們簽訂了一個旅送經濟走廊這樣的一個合約來部長我先拉回來阿你剛剛講到廠商的部分對不對所以就會讓大家"},{"start":242.09,"end":262.142,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":262.202,"end":287.258,"text":"那你又講說沒有這個是你天馬行空的想法連跟最基本的國安單位也都沒有討論過沒有錯因為我剛剛在外交國防委員會我請教國安局局長啊我說國安局到底有沒有做過評估如果說我們的電我們的戰略物資居然是要從國外進口那無怪乎大家會質疑啊無怪乎大家會覺得是說今天菲律賓政府"},{"start":288.178,"end":303.081,"text":"之前的領導人相對比較親中現在的領導人可能親美但會不會換了領導人之後就有換不同的一個角度 政策 政治我同意委員你的想法我們有辦法掌握嗎這一點才是 所以部長你今天講出來的這些狀況會不會真的太噁心會怎麼樣會不會太噁心會不會讓我們這兩天"},{"start":314.022,"end":317.824,"text":"部長清楚菲律賓的電價跟台灣的電價比較嗎?"},{"start":344.445,"end":344.605,"text":"實在話講我覺得還是"},{"start":359.844,"end":387.961,"text":"拉回來能源是務實的選項能源不是天馬行空的幻想能源是每天大家都要用的能源也是實實在在的數字沒有美化數字沒有虛冠數字沒有作假數字有就有沒有就沒有會去想不是從我們台灣內部來發電而是想是說從外部然後怎麼樣來跟人家每多一分其實就是把我講實在話講部長"},{"start":389.922,"end":406.823,"text":"如果說這個話是相對來說這個其他我們在野黨民意代表講出來說不定他徹意已經泡翻了就是說你根本就是把台灣的經濟命脈把台灣的能源掌握在別人手裡所以你的天馬行空你的"},{"start":408.114,"end":408.394,"text":"這個我以後會謹言慎行"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":5,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:00:05 - 13:07:16","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。）","id":155606,"gazette":{"lineno":1030,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（13時）主席謝謝，請經濟部郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：郭部長，因為你的一席菲律賓送電說，造成全國譁然以及大家餘波蕩漾，雖然上午你已經有道歉，但是本席還是想要針對能源議題跟你就教。首先，能源算是重要的戰略物資，電力是國力，你認同嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：認同。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果未來要針對相關的電不是在臺灣本地生產、不在臺灣本地發電，而是要由外部運輸的話，你覺得先決條件是不是就會變成發電命脈掌握在別人土地上？到時候的國際情勢、任何相關國際環境會不會更加變化？這不是商業模式說我簽一紙公文、簽一紙合約就可以確保供電無虞。你提出這樣一個構想、想法，有沒有找國安單位討論看看，或者請教國安單位的意見？"],["郭部長智輝：還沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以這完全就像你講的快人快語、思考不周，忘了自己是部長？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：未來本席更擔心，外界已經有人在講是不是有些廠商已經先偷跑，知道方向、知道部長的屬意，所以先偷跑？"],["郭部長智輝：這不可能。"],["洪委員孟楷：不可能？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：為什麼？因為這完全是你天馬行空的想法，沒有跟任何人討論過？"],["郭部長智輝：在全球，現在綠電都是大家關心的命題，我們可以看到新加坡從澳洲買太陽能綠電，從澳洲到新加坡大概4,300公里，現在還是持續在討論，但這是一個事實。第二，英國從非洲透過4,000公里買綠電，也就是說，有綠電生產的國家有這個條件，它綠電發電成本就非常低，所以透過海纜的方式，這個是我們看到的一個新的事實。我在講這個事情的時候，其實是因為民主同盟也非常關心這樣的命題，因為將來2050年要淨零減碳，大家為了快點讓綠能上來，我想委員非常清楚，綠能只要經濟規模到達了，成本其實非常低的。我就在想如何讓臺灣這些廠商更有世界的競爭力，你在臺灣做綠能的、太陽能發電或風力發電，臺灣就這麼小的一個島，所以能夠做的其實非常有限，臺灣就是要多元的綠能，我在講菲律賓這個命題其實是菲律賓的總統、日本的首相跟美國的總統在今年4月簽訂呂宋經濟走廊的合約。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我先拉回來，你剛講到廠商的部分，就讓大家不禁會想到是不是有哪些特定廠商已經先跑去菲律賓插旗了，這不是跟你剛剛講的又有點矛盾？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席特別看你昨天講的話，你講的是不一定由我們公部門去設電廠，而是廠商去，而我們用購買電的方式，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：你又講這是你天馬行空的想法，連跟最基本的國安單位也沒有討論過，沒有錯，因為我剛在外交及國防委員會請教國安局局長，我說國安局到底有沒有做過評估，如果我們的電、我們的戰略物資居然要從外進口，毋怪乎大家會質疑啊！毋怪乎大家會覺得今天菲律賓之前的領導人相對比較親中，現在的領導人可能親美，但會不會換了領導人之後就換不同的政治角度、政策，我們有辦法掌握嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我同意你的想法，所以我們在風險的評估……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以部長今天講出來的這些狀況會不會真的太兒戲？這兩天報紙頭條、推播都在講部長菲律賓來電。"],["郭部長智輝：我對自己發言不夠精準，我剛才也講過了，我非常抱歉，但是我的意思是說在菲律賓可以得到比較低成本的……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長清楚菲律賓的電價和臺灣的電價比較嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，現有菲律賓的電價是比較高的，但是我們在討論回來怎樣讓綠電成本降低，它是需要經濟規模的。"],["洪委員孟楷：講實在話，我覺得還是拉回來能源是務實的選項，能源不是天馬行空的幻想，能源是每天大家都要用的，能源也是實實在在的數字，沒有美化數字、沒有虛灌數字、沒有作假數字，有就有，沒有就沒有。會去想不是從臺灣內部發電，而是想從外部發電，每多一分其實就是把……講實在話，如果這個話是在野黨的民意代表講出來，說不定側翼已經砲翻了，說你根本把臺灣的經濟命脈、臺灣的能源掌握在別人手裡。所以，你的天馬行空、你的幻想不要變成我們……你今天不是部長的話，你要講什麼，我沒有意見，因為我跟你沒有私人恩怨嘛！但你今天站在部長的位子，我今天質詢的是經濟部長，既然你身為經濟部長，講的每一句、每一話、每一行、每一言，政策是長治久安。"],["郭部長智輝：是，我以後會謹言慎行。"],["主席（鄭委員正鈐代）：謝謝洪孟楷委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請呂玉玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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