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{\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 458.686, \"end\": 458.826, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 458.826, \"end\": 458.946, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"梅\", \"start\": 458.946, \"end\": 458.966, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 478.851, \"end\": 478.871, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,069 --> 00:00:08,209\n主席\n\n2\n00:00:50,959 --> 00:01:19,135\n五個多月吧有沒有覺得很疲累不會可是我看到你很疲累我看到你的心非常的疲憊剛剛從黃國昌委員一直到這個昭知委員你好像都已經沒有辦法招架了齁那我今天其實呢要提醒你的就是大家給你非常多的期待跟期望我們希望你依然是帶著初心來到這個地方就是為人民服務\n\n3\n00:01:20,751 --> 00:01:22,797\n用您的專業跟您經營企業的心態還有手腕\n\n4\n00:01:28,755 --> 00:01:29,416\n民進黨1990年代就開始反核運動了\n\n5\n00:01:53,117 --> 00:02:07,288\n當時呢他就喊出了非核家園的運動理想經過了20多年到了2016年這個反核理想變成了就是2025年的非核家園的政策目標當時您還在企業界我想問您當時的態度是什麼你說這個能源的配比嗎能源的政策非核家園\n\n6\n00:02:15,512 --> 00:02:16,012\n您的看法是什麼?\n\n7\n00:02:29,690 --> 00:02:40,634\n我那個時候沒有什麼看法了因為我大概就明天都會去考慮這個能源你是民間的董事長欸好我們看一下當年蔡英文政府提出這個政策目標齁2025年能源發電的結構比是天然氣要佔50%會影響到你們的這個喔企業喔\n\n8\n00:02:49,857 --> 00:03:13,596\n燃煤占了30%這會影響我們的空氣喔再生能源占了20%能不能達到我相信您是一個有名的董事長產業界的榔頭老大你應該都清楚好啦現在8年過去了依照經濟部今年發布的2023年全國電力的資源供需報告能源發電的結構占比燃煤仍然是最高的所以呢\n\n9\n00:03:14,477 --> 00:03:16,119\n我們的空氣會越來越壞他的佔比是42.24%我們的天然氣還是第二佔了39.57%核能減少了將近一半6.31%7月底核三廠關閉\n\n10\n00:03:30,251 --> 00:03:46,470\n只剩下了3%．而我們也清楚知道．弊案連連的再生能源．它卻成長有限．從5%只增長到9.47%．經濟部你們今年預估．2025年的再生能源的占比．只能達到15%．\n\n11\n00:03:48,152 --> 00:04:09,410\n然而原先設定的20%的政策目標要推遲到2026年的11月才能夠達標這已經是第二次的推遲了民進黨政府在2025年非核家園的理想為什麼到現在還沒有辦法兌現呢有人說是因為新冠疫情的影響有人說是惡霧戰爭的結果這理由我認為都說不過去啦\n\n12\n00:04:09,950 --> 00:04:30,851\n我認為要實現一個重大的能源的轉型目標是一個風險很大的政策對吧要實現這種轉變需要的是穩健的政策對不對對吧同意齁可是民進黨政府他們卻急於求成現在核能雖然已經如民進黨所願幾乎要停掉了\n\n13\n00:04:31,351 --> 00:04:31,511\n高金素梅\n\n14\n00:04:54,099 --> 00:05:08,689\n不願意放棄2025年的非核家園執念這也是我覺得你心內的問題核電減少了之後就必須要南電北送超負荷的燃煤發電就會讓我們的電廠超載工作事故不斷\n\n15\n00:05:09,249 --> 00:05:12,272\n跳電狀況不斷電網傳送不穩定然後我們高價買的綠電也緩不及急於是呢就開始缺電了然後說到缺電我們的台電仍然說沒有缺電只是要修電網和老舊的發電設備然後呢我們的民進黨政府就編多少10年5645億的\n\n16\n00:05:31,133 --> 00:05:35,898\n強化電網韌性建設計畫這是人民的納稅錢喔臺電又說要用來發電的國金能源價格大漲了我們如果再繼續買下去臺電就要破產了於是呢我們民進黨政府這兩年又要增資撥補了多少?10千億\n\n17\n00:05:49,133 --> 00:05:52,938\n然後我們的民進黨政府拿人民的納稅錢撇補了台電然後的問題解決了嗎沒有解決台電繼續要漲電價這3年來我們看一下我們台電漲了3次的電價漲幅是30%我相信你應該很清楚\n\n18\n00:06:05,476 --> 00:06:13,323\n今年4月漲完電價之後臺電又講了他說如果不再繼續撥補的話電價還要再漲12%結果呢民進黨政府又編了多少1000億的撥補預算還漲了電價平均的漲幅超過了12%過去的8年\n\n19\n00:06:24,392 --> 00:06:34,639\n你不在沒關係我們民進黨政府他編列了成億上兆的能源轉型預算明年也就是114年度我們的預算繼續要編多少1161億還有一個什麼呢6年9000億的2030淨零轉型計畫我們看一下蔡英文砸大錢拼了8年我們的綠能配比也增加不到5%\n\n20\n00:06:52,492 --> 00:06:59,014\n我們在努力讓這個綠能在這個2026年能夠達到這個百分之二十有很多細節問題黃國昌委員都問了但是今天我要再問你一個你看一下今天的頭版頭條都是你的新聞\n\n21\n00:07:14,741 --> 00:07:30,817\n部長你知道你又犯了什麼錯誤嗎你又犯了民進黨把理想當政策的錯誤我認為以您這位企業家的經歷你不應該會犯這種錯誤啊你看一下今天您的頭條新聞部長你要不要看一下你要到菲律賓到日本蓋綠電廠啊\n\n22\n00:07:38,626 --> 00:07:38,966\n高金素梅議員\n\n23\n00:07:58,851 --> 00:07:58,871\n謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8069\t8209\t主席\n33780\t50145\t響鐘\n50959\t79135\t五個多月吧有沒有覺得很疲累不會可是我看到你很疲累我看到你的心非常的疲憊剛剛從黃國昌委員一直到這個昭知委員你好像都已經沒有辦法招架了齁那我今天其實呢要提醒你的就是大家給你非常多的期待跟期望我們希望你依然是帶著初心來到這個地方就是為人民服務\n80751\t82797\t用您的專業跟您經營企業的心態還有手腕\n88755\t89416\t民進黨1990年代就開始反核運動了\n113117\t127288\t當時呢他就喊出了非核家園的運動理想經過了20多年到了2016年這個反核理想變成了就是2025年的非核家園的政策目標當時您還在企業界我想問您當時的態度是什麼你說這個能源的配比嗎能源的政策非核家園\n135512\t136012\t您的看法是什麼?\n149690\t160634\t我那個時候沒有什麼看法了因為我大概就明天都會去考慮這個能源你是民間的董事長欸好我們看一下當年蔡英文政府提出這個政策目標齁2025年能源發電的結構比是天然氣要佔50%會影響到你們的這個喔企業喔\n169857\t193596\t燃煤占了30%這會影響我們的空氣喔再生能源占了20%能不能達到我相信您是一個有名的董事長產業界的榔頭老大你應該都清楚好啦現在8年過去了依照經濟部今年發布的2023年全國電力的資源供需報告能源發電的結構占比燃煤仍然是最高的所以呢\n194477\t196119\t我們的空氣會越來越壞他的佔比是42.24%我們的天然氣還是第二佔了39.57%核能減少了將近一半6.31%7月底核三廠關閉\n210251\t226470\t只剩下了3%．而我們也清楚知道．弊案連連的再生能源．它卻成長有限．從5%只增長到9.47%．經濟部你們今年預估．2025年的再生能源的占比．只能達到15%．\n228152\t249410\t然而原先設定的20%的政策目標要推遲到2026年的11月才能夠達標這已經是第二次的推遲了民進黨政府在2025年非核家園的理想為什麼到現在還沒有辦法兌現呢有人說是因為新冠疫情的影響有人說是惡霧戰爭的結果這理由我認為都說不過去啦\n249950\t270851\t我認為要實現一個重大的能源的轉型目標是一個風險很大的政策對吧要實現這種轉變需要的是穩健的政策對不對對吧同意齁可是民進黨政府他們卻急於求成現在核能雖然已經如民進黨所願幾乎要停掉了\n271351\t271511\t高金素梅\n294099\t308689\t不願意放棄2025年的非核家園執念這也是我覺得你心內的問題核電減少了之後就必須要南電北送超負荷的燃煤發電就會讓我們的電廠超載工作事故不斷\n309249\t312272\t跳電狀況不斷電網傳送不穩定然後我們高價買的綠電也緩不及急於是呢就開始缺電了然後說到缺電我們的台電仍然說沒有缺電只是要修電網和老舊的發電設備然後呢我們的民進黨政府就編多少10年5645億的\n331133\t335898\t強化電網韌性建設計畫這是人民的納稅錢喔臺電又說要用來發電的國金能源價格大漲了我們如果再繼續買下去臺電就要破產了於是呢我們民進黨政府這兩年又要增資撥補了多少?10千億\n349133\t352938\t然後我們的民進黨政府拿人民的納稅錢撇補了台電然後的問題解決了嗎沒有解決台電繼續要漲電價這3年來我們看一下我們台電漲了3次的電價漲幅是30%我相信你應該很清楚\n365476\t373323\t今年4月漲完電價之後臺電又講了他說如果不再繼續撥補的話電價還要再漲12%結果呢民進黨政府又編了多少1000億的撥補預算還漲了電價平均的漲幅超過了12%過去的8年\n384392\t394639\t你不在沒關係我們民進黨政府他編列了成億上兆的能源轉型預算明年也就是114年度我們的預算繼續要編多少1161億還有一個什麼呢6年9000億的2030淨零轉型計畫我們看一下蔡英文砸大錢拼了8年我們的綠能配比也增加不到5%\n412492\t419014\t我們在努力讓這個綠能在這個2026年能夠達到這個百分之二十有很多細節問題黃國昌委員都問了但是今天我要再問你一個你看一下今天的頭版頭條都是你的新聞\n434741\t450817\t部長你知道你又犯了什麼錯誤嗎你又犯了民進黨把理想當政策的錯誤我認為以您這位企業家的經歷你不應該會犯這種錯誤啊你看一下今天您的頭條新聞部長你要不要看一下你要到菲律賓到日本蓋綠電廠啊\n458626\t458966\t高金素梅議員\n478851\t478871\t謝謝部長\n","txt":"主席\n響鐘\n五個多月吧有沒有覺得很疲累不會可是我看到你很疲累我看到你的心非常的疲憊剛剛從黃國昌委員一直到這個昭知委員你好像都已經沒有辦法招架了齁那我今天其實呢要提醒你的就是大家給你非常多的期待跟期望我們希望你依然是帶著初心來到這個地方就是為人民服務\n用您的專業跟您經營企業的心態還有手腕\n民進黨1990年代就開始反核運動了\n當時呢他就喊出了非核家園的運動理想經過了20多年到了2016年這個反核理想變成了就是2025年的非核家園的政策目標當時您還在企業界我想問您當時的態度是什麼你說這個能源的配比嗎能源的政策非核家園\n您的看法是什麼?\n我那個時候沒有什麼看法了因為我大概就明天都會去考慮這個能源你是民間的董事長欸好我們看一下當年蔡英文政府提出這個政策目標齁2025年能源發電的結構比是天然氣要佔50%會影響到你們的這個喔企業喔\n燃煤占了30%這會影響我們的空氣喔再生能源占了20%能不能達到我相信您是一個有名的董事長產業界的榔頭老大你應該都清楚好啦現在8年過去了依照經濟部今年發布的2023年全國電力的資源供需報告能源發電的結構占比燃煤仍然是最高的所以呢\n我們的空氣會越來越壞他的佔比是42.24%我們的天然氣還是第二佔了39.57%核能減少了將近一半6.31%7月底核三廠關閉\n只剩下了3%．而我們也清楚知道．弊案連連的再生能源．它卻成長有限．從5%只增長到9.47%．經濟部你們今年預估．2025年的再生能源的占比．只能達到15%．\n然而原先設定的20%的政策目標要推遲到2026年的11月才能夠達標這已經是第二次的推遲了民進黨政府在2025年非核家園的理想為什麼到現在還沒有辦法兌現呢有人說是因為新冠疫情的影響有人說是惡霧戰爭的結果這理由我認為都說不過去啦\n我認為要實現一個重大的能源的轉型目標是一個風險很大的政策對吧要實現這種轉變需要的是穩健的政策對不對對吧同意齁可是民進黨政府他們卻急於求成現在核能雖然已經如民進黨所願幾乎要停掉了\n高金素梅\n不願意放棄2025年的非核家園執念這也是我覺得你心內的問題核電減少了之後就必須要南電北送超負荷的燃煤發電就會讓我們的電廠超載工作事故不斷\n跳電狀況不斷電網傳送不穩定然後我們高價買的綠電也緩不及急於是呢就開始缺電了然後說到缺電我們的台電仍然說沒有缺電只是要修電網和老舊的發電設備然後呢我們的民進黨政府就編多少10年5645億的\n強化電網韌性建設計畫這是人民的納稅錢喔臺電又說要用來發電的國金能源價格大漲了我們如果再繼續買下去臺電就要破產了於是呢我們民進黨政府這兩年又要增資撥補了多少?10千億\n然後我們的民進黨政府拿人民的納稅錢撇補了台電然後的問題解決了嗎沒有解決台電繼續要漲電價這3年來我們看一下我們台電漲了3次的電價漲幅是30%我相信你應該很清楚\n今年4月漲完電價之後臺電又講了他說如果不再繼續撥補的話電價還要再漲12%結果呢民進黨政府又編了多少1000億的撥補預算還漲了電價平均的漲幅超過了12%過去的8年\n你不在沒關係我們民進黨政府他編列了成億上兆的能源轉型預算明年也就是114年度我們的預算繼續要編多少1161億還有一個什麼呢6年9000億的2030淨零轉型計畫我們看一下蔡英文砸大錢拼了8年我們的綠能配比也增加不到5%\n我們在努力讓這個綠能在這個2026年能夠達到這個百分之二十有很多細節問題黃國昌委員都問了但是今天我要再問你一個你看一下今天的頭版頭條都是你的新聞\n部長你知道你又犯了什麼錯誤嗎你又犯了民進黨把理想當政策的錯誤我認為以您這位企業家的經歷你不應該會犯這種錯誤啊你看一下今天您的頭條新聞部長你要不要看一下你要到菲律賓到日本蓋綠電廠啊\n高金素梅議員\n謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.069 --> 00:08.209\n主席\n\n00:50.959 --> 01:19.135\n五個多月吧有沒有覺得很疲累不會可是我看到你很疲累我看到你的心非常的疲憊剛剛從黃國昌委員一直到這個昭知委員你好像都已經沒有辦法招架了齁那我今天其實呢要提醒你的就是大家給你非常多的期待跟期望我們希望你依然是帶著初心來到這個地方就是為人民服務\n\n01:20.751 --> 01:22.797\n用您的專業跟您經營企業的心態還有手腕\n\n01:28.755 --> 01:29.416\n民進黨1990年代就開始反核運動了\n\n01:53.117 --> 02:07.288\n當時呢他就喊出了非核家園的運動理想經過了20多年到了2016年這個反核理想變成了就是2025年的非核家園的政策目標當時您還在企業界我想問您當時的態度是什麼你說這個能源的配比嗎能源的政策非核家園\n\n02:15.512 --> 02:16.012\n您的看法是什麼?\n\n02:29.690 --> 02:40.634\n我那個時候沒有什麼看法了因為我大概就明天都會去考慮這個能源你是民間的董事長欸好我們看一下當年蔡英文政府提出這個政策目標齁2025年能源發電的結構比是天然氣要佔50%會影響到你們的這個喔企業喔\n\n02:49.857 --> 03:13.596\n燃煤占了30%這會影響我們的空氣喔再生能源占了20%能不能達到我相信您是一個有名的董事長產業界的榔頭老大你應該都清楚好啦現在8年過去了依照經濟部今年發布的2023年全國電力的資源供需報告能源發電的結構占比燃煤仍然是最高的所以呢\n\n03:14.477 --> 03:16.119\n我們的空氣會越來越壞他的佔比是42.24%我們的天然氣還是第二佔了39.57%核能減少了將近一半6.31%7月底核三廠關閉\n\n03:30.251 --> 03:46.470\n只剩下了3%．而我們也清楚知道．弊案連連的再生能源．它卻成長有限．從5%只增長到9.47%．經濟部你們今年預估．2025年的再生能源的占比．只能達到15%．\n\n03:48.152 --> 04:09.410\n然而原先設定的20%的政策目標要推遲到2026年的11月才能夠達標這已經是第二次的推遲了民進黨政府在2025年非核家園的理想為什麼到現在還沒有辦法兌現呢有人說是因為新冠疫情的影響有人說是惡霧戰爭的結果這理由我認為都說不過去啦\n\n04:09.950 --> 04:30.851\n我認為要實現一個重大的能源的轉型目標是一個風險很大的政策對吧要實現這種轉變需要的是穩健的政策對不對對吧同意齁可是民進黨政府他們卻急於求成現在核能雖然已經如民進黨所願幾乎要停掉了\n\n04:31.351 --> 04:31.511\n高金素梅\n\n04:54.099 --> 05:08.689\n不願意放棄2025年的非核家園執念這也是我覺得你心內的問題核電減少了之後就必須要南電北送超負荷的燃煤發電就會讓我們的電廠超載工作事故不斷\n\n05:09.249 --> 05:12.272\n跳電狀況不斷電網傳送不穩定然後我們高價買的綠電也緩不及急於是呢就開始缺電了然後說到缺電我們的台電仍然說沒有缺電只是要修電網和老舊的發電設備然後呢我們的民進黨政府就編多少10年5645億的\n\n05:31.133 --> 05:35.898\n強化電網韌性建設計畫這是人民的納稅錢喔臺電又說要用來發電的國金能源價格大漲了我們如果再繼續買下去臺電就要破產了於是呢我們民進黨政府這兩年又要增資撥補了多少?10千億\n\n05:49.133 --> 05:52.938\n然後我們的民進黨政府拿人民的納稅錢撇補了台電然後的問題解決了嗎沒有解決台電繼續要漲電價這3年來我們看一下我們台電漲了3次的電價漲幅是30%我相信你應該很清楚\n\n06:05.476 --> 06:13.323\n今年4月漲完電價之後臺電又講了他說如果不再繼續撥補的話電價還要再漲12%結果呢民進黨政府又編了多少1000億的撥補預算還漲了電價平均的漲幅超過了12%過去的8年\n\n06:24.392 --> 06:34.639\n你不在沒關係我們民進黨政府他編列了成億上兆的能源轉型預算明年也就是114年度我們的預算繼續要編多少1161億還有一個什麼呢6年9000億的2030淨零轉型計畫我們看一下蔡英文砸大錢拼了8年我們的綠能配比也增加不到5%\n\n06:52.492 --> 06:59.014\n我們在努力讓這個綠能在這個2026年能夠達到這個百分之二十有很多細節問題黃國昌委員都問了但是今天我要再問你一個你看一下今天的頭版頭條都是你的新聞\n\n07:14.741 --> 07:30.817\n部長你知道你又犯了什麼錯誤嗎你又犯了民進黨把理想當政策的錯誤我認為以您這位企業家的經歷你不應該會犯這種錯誤啊你看一下今天您的頭條新聞部長你要不要看一下你要到菲律賓到日本蓋綠電廠啊\n\n07:38.626 --> 07:38.966\n高金素梅議員\n\n07:58.851 --> 07:58.871\n謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.069,"end":8.209,"text":"主席"},{"start":33.78,"end":50.145,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":50.959,"end":79.135,"text":"五個多月吧有沒有覺得很疲累不會可是我看到你很疲累我看到你的心非常的疲憊剛剛從黃國昌委員一直到這個昭知委員你好像都已經沒有辦法招架了齁那我今天其實呢要提醒你的就是大家給你非常多的期待跟期望我們希望你依然是帶著初心來到這個地方就是為人民服務"},{"start":80.751,"end":82.797,"text":"用您的專業跟您經營企業的心態還有手腕"},{"start":88.755,"end":89.416,"text":"民進黨1990年代就開始反核運動了"},{"start":113.117,"end":127.288,"text":"當時呢他就喊出了非核家園的運動理想經過了20多年到了2016年這個反核理想變成了就是2025年的非核家園的政策目標當時您還在企業界我想問您當時的態度是什麼你說這個能源的配比嗎能源的政策非核家園"},{"start":135.512,"end":136.012,"text":"您的看法是什麼?"},{"start":149.69,"end":160.634,"text":"我那個時候沒有什麼看法了因為我大概就明天都會去考慮這個能源你是民間的董事長欸好我們看一下當年蔡英文政府提出這個政策目標齁2025年能源發電的結構比是天然氣要佔50%會影響到你們的這個喔企業喔"},{"start":169.857,"end":193.596,"text":"燃煤占了30%這會影響我們的空氣喔再生能源占了20%能不能達到我相信您是一個有名的董事長產業界的榔頭老大你應該都清楚好啦現在8年過去了依照經濟部今年發布的2023年全國電力的資源供需報告能源發電的結構占比燃煤仍然是最高的所以呢"},{"start":194.477,"end":196.119,"text":"我們的空氣會越來越壞他的佔比是42.24%我們的天然氣還是第二佔了39.57%核能減少了將近一半6.31%7月底核三廠關閉"},{"start":210.251,"end":226.47,"text":"只剩下了3%．而我們也清楚知道．弊案連連的再生能源．它卻成長有限．從5%只增長到9.47%．經濟部你們今年預估．2025年的再生能源的占比．只能達到15%．"},{"start":228.152,"end":249.41,"text":"然而原先設定的20%的政策目標要推遲到2026年的11月才能夠達標這已經是第二次的推遲了民進黨政府在2025年非核家園的理想為什麼到現在還沒有辦法兌現呢有人說是因為新冠疫情的影響有人說是惡霧戰爭的結果這理由我認為都說不過去啦"},{"start":249.95,"end":270.851,"text":"我認為要實現一個重大的能源的轉型目標是一個風險很大的政策對吧要實現這種轉變需要的是穩健的政策對不對對吧同意齁可是民進黨政府他們卻急於求成現在核能雖然已經如民進黨所願幾乎要停掉了"},{"start":271.351,"end":271.511,"text":"高金素梅"},{"start":294.099,"end":308.689,"text":"不願意放棄2025年的非核家園執念這也是我覺得你心內的問題核電減少了之後就必須要南電北送超負荷的燃煤發電就會讓我們的電廠超載工作事故不斷"},{"start":309.249,"end":312.272,"text":"跳電狀況不斷電網傳送不穩定然後我們高價買的綠電也緩不及急於是呢就開始缺電了然後說到缺電我們的台電仍然說沒有缺電只是要修電網和老舊的發電設備然後呢我們的民進黨政府就編多少10年5645億的"},{"start":331.133,"end":335.898,"text":"強化電網韌性建設計畫這是人民的納稅錢喔臺電又說要用來發電的國金能源價格大漲了我們如果再繼續買下去臺電就要破產了於是呢我們民進黨政府這兩年又要增資撥補了多少?10千億"},{"start":349.133,"end":352.938,"text":"然後我們的民進黨政府拿人民的納稅錢撇補了台電然後的問題解決了嗎沒有解決台電繼續要漲電價這3年來我們看一下我們台電漲了3次的電價漲幅是30%我相信你應該很清楚"},{"start":365.476,"end":373.323,"text":"今年4月漲完電價之後臺電又講了他說如果不再繼續撥補的話電價還要再漲12%結果呢民進黨政府又編了多少1000億的撥補預算還漲了電價平均的漲幅超過了12%過去的8年"},{"start":384.392,"end":394.639,"text":"你不在沒關係我們民進黨政府他編列了成億上兆的能源轉型預算明年也就是114年度我們的預算繼續要編多少1161億還有一個什麼呢6年9000億的2030淨零轉型計畫我們看一下蔡英文砸大錢拼了8年我們的綠能配比也增加不到5%"},{"start":412.492,"end":419.014,"text":"我們在努力讓這個綠能在這個2026年能夠達到這個百分之二十有很多細節問題黃國昌委員都問了但是今天我要再問你一個你看一下今天的頭版頭條都是你的新聞"},{"start":434.741,"end":450.817,"text":"部長你知道你又犯了什麼錯誤嗎你又犯了民進黨把理想當政策的錯誤我認為以您這位企業家的經歷你不應該會犯這種錯誤啊你看一下今天您的頭條新聞部長你要不要看一下你要到菲律賓到日本蓋綠電廠啊"},{"start":458.626,"end":458.966,"text":"高金素梅議員"},{"start":478.851,"end":478.871,"text":"謝謝部長"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":5,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:43:40 - 13:52:07","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。）","id":155621,"gazette":{"lineno":1251,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（13時43分）部長要喝口水嗎？要不要喝口水？我的麥克風怎麼那麼小聲啊！能調一下這個聲音啊！我要拉得很近才能夠說，我們趁這個時間讓部長休息一下喝口水。喂，1234，謝謝你，好像大聲一點了，謝謝。部長喝完水，您就可以上臺了，好嗎？"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：部長，上任到現在多久了？"],["郭部長智輝：5個多月吧！"],["高金委員素梅：有沒有覺得很疲累？"],["郭部長智輝：不會。"],["高金委員素梅：可是我看到你很疲累，我看到你的心非常地疲憊。剛剛從黃國昌委員一直到昭姿委員，你好像都已經沒有辦法招架了，我今天其實要提醒你的就是，大家給你非常多的期待跟期望，希望你依然是帶著初心來到這個地方為人民服務，用你的專業跟你經營企業的心態還有手腕來好好地坐這個位子。今天我沒有很深入的問題，我只是講一個非常邏輯的問題。","看一下，能源配比本末倒置，用電政策捨本逐末，你可以不要即時地回答，好好看一下我給你整理的一些資料。民進黨從19年代就開始反核運動了，當時它就喊出了非核家園的運動理想，經過了二十多年，到了2016年，這個反核理想變成了2025年非核家園的政策目標，當時您還在企業界，我想問您，您當時的態度是什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：你說這個能源的配比嗎？"],["高金委員素梅：能源的政策，非核家園。"],["郭部長智輝：這個不是我的……我經濟部部長是執行這樣的決策。"],["高金委員素梅：我知道，當時你在企業，你看到民進黨政府要把2025非核家園政策當作它的執行目標了，你的看法是什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：我那時候沒有什麼看法，因為我大概就是民間，不會去考慮能源。"],["高金委員素梅：您是民間的董事長耶！好，我們看一下，當年蔡英文政府提出這個政策目標，2025年能源發電的結構比是天然氣要占50%，會影響到你們的企業；燃煤占了30%，這會影響我們的空氣；再生能源占了20%，能不能達到？我相信您是一個有名的董事長、產業界的龍頭老大，您應該都清楚。好了，現在8年過去了，依照經濟部今年發布的2023年全國電力的資源供需報告，能源發電的結構占比，燃煤仍然是最高的，所以我們的空氣會越來越壞，它的占比是42.24%；我們的天然氣還是第二，占了39.57%；核能減少了將近一半，達到6.31%，7月底核三廠關閉，只剩下了3%；而我們也清楚知道，弊案連連的再生能源卻成長有限，從5%只增長到9.47%。經濟部你們今年預估2025年再生能源的占比只能達到15%，然而原先設定20%的政策目標，要推遲到2026年的11月才能夠達標，這已經是第2次的推遲了。","民進黨政府在2025年非核家園的理想為什麼到現在還沒有辦法兌現呢？有人說是因為新冠疫情的影響，有的人說是俄烏戰爭的結果，這個理由我認為都說不過去啦！我認為要實現一個重大能源轉型目標是一個風險很大的政策，對吧！要實現這種轉變，需要的是穩健的政策，對不對？對吧！同意嗎？好，可是民進黨政府它們卻急於求成，現在核能雖然已經如民進黨所願，幾乎要停掉了，但是我們的再生能源這個部分就算貪多求快，目標也一拖再拖，不能夠達標，然而弊案連連，這種能源配比的目標根本就是本末倒置，我認為只要正本清源，合理利用現有的發電能源，也就是核能，我們的能源配比是可以穩健轉型的，但是民進黨政府就是不願意放棄2025年非核家園的執念，這也是我覺得你心累的問題。","核電減少了之後就必須要南電北送，超負荷的燃煤發電就會讓我們的電廠超載工作、事故不斷、跳電狀況不斷、電網傳送不穩定，然後我們高價買的綠電也緩不濟急，於是就開始缺電了。說到缺電，台電仍然說沒有缺電，只是要修電網和老舊的發電設備，然後民進黨政府就編多少？10年5,645億元的強化電網韌性建設計畫，這是人民的納稅錢喔！台電又說要用來發電的國際能源價格大漲了，我們如果再繼續買下去，台電就要破產了，於是民進黨政府這兩年又要增資，撥補了多少？4,000億元，民進黨政府拿人民的納稅錢貼補了台電，問題解決了嗎？沒有解決，台電要繼續漲電價。這3年來我們看一下，台電漲了3次的電價，漲幅是30%，我相信你應該很清楚。今年4月，漲完電價之後，台電又講了，它說如果不再繼續撥補的話，電價還要再漲12%，結果民進黨政府又編了多少？1,000億元的撥補預算，還漲了電價，平均的漲幅超過了12%。","過去的8年你不在沒關係，民進黨政府它編列了成億上兆的能源轉型預算，明年也就是114年度，我們的預算繼續要編多少？1,161億元，還有一個什麼呢？6年9,000億元的2030淨零轉型計畫。我們看一下，蔡英文砸大錢拚了8年，我們的綠能配比也增加不到5%，未來的6年要達到配比20%，這有可能嗎？請問經濟部長。"],["郭部長智輝：我們在努力讓綠能在2026年能夠達到20%。"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！有很多細節問題，黃國昌委員都問了啦！但是今天我要再問你一個，你看一下，今天的頭版、頭條都是你的新聞喔！部長，你知道你犯了什麼錯誤嗎？你又犯了民進黨把理想當政策的錯誤，我認為以您這位企業家的經歷，你不應該犯這種錯誤啊！你看一下今天您的頭條新聞，部長，你要不要看一下，你要到菲律賓、日本蓋綠電廠啊！"],["郭部長智輝：這個是一個比較大的命題的討論，但是我想我跟媒體的溝通沒有很好，所以它會截這一段來放大說明，所以我也感到抱歉，我自己的言語不夠精準，沒有把這件事情表達得很好。"],["高金委員素梅：所以要嗎？會做嗎？這件事情。"],["郭部長智輝：不是，這是個非常大的計畫。"],["高金委員素梅：這件事情會做嗎？你不覺得這個計畫又是一個很有理想性，根本不可能實現的事情嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：不是。"],["高金委員素梅：這又是另外一個政策錯誤嗎？部長。"],["郭部長智輝：不是，這個跟政策沒有關係，我沒有叫台電要去菲律賓設，我只是講菲律賓會設一個電廠，但不是台電，這一點我必須要特別說明。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝，我認為你講這句話，我們看一下是不是某一些股票又要漲價了，謝謝部長。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["主席：請廖偉翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","陳超明","郭國文","賴士葆","萬美玲","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","黃國昌","王育敏","陳昭姿","高金素梅","廖偉翔","黃健豪","葉元之","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","涂權吉","何欣純","徐富癸","徐欣瑩","林思銘","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進\n行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138401_00017"}}}