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\"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 422.94, \"end\": 422.96, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,478 --> 00:00:12,802\n謝謝主席邀請部長請郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:21,826 --> 00:00:44,712\n委員好部長好剛剛高金委員講的一切在我總質詢的時候應該也有講過類似的話題然後就是說我們現在能源配比就好比是在打棒球賽一樣根本就是硬要堅持這樣做是打假球的一個行為那身為球隊總經理其實當初我想大家看到您來接這個經濟部長的時候是希望你在\n\n3\n00:00:45,712 --> 00:01:00,225\n業界的經驗然後你是企業家你可以有理性務實然後真正可以幫我們做理性的判斷但現在看到這樣子實在是令人覺得不知道是你有沒有持續保持這個初心所以我也是呼應一下剛剛我們高經緯委員說的\n\n4\n00:01:01,286 --> 00:01:11,133\n那甚至是您剛剛的這個這個想要去菲律賓日本設電廠的這個問題那這個我們等一下再來討論但是在開始之前我還是想要先問一下部長因為上一次您沒有來是次長來可是我有提到一個問題就是我有收到民間的陳情就是這個藥局因為藥商藥廠因為這次被漲電價所以他就要求說他的所有藥要乘以1.1給藥局對不對這個部分\n\n5\n00:01:28,886 --> 00:01:30,587\n因為這個不是需要溝通的問題啦\n\n6\n00:01:54,461 --> 00:02:11,869\n這當然可以溝通我只想問他有沒有來跟您提過這個類似的事情因為我當初其實我也有把那個資料用出來就是說這個他們有沒有去跟你溝通這個問題我想只要有沒有而已啦衛福部長有沒有跟我們郭部長這邊來溝通或是相關的單位有沒有溝通這個問題\n\n7\n00:02:20,007 --> 00:02:33,565\n這個問題應該有吧?呃,跟委員報告齁,因為一般的藥房都是那個用電比較小,都是累積的那個你就不用解釋,我只問有沒有來溝通這件事因為我當時就有請他去溝通,他答應我說要溝通,請問有溝通嗎?是啊,我們會溝通啦\n\n8\n00:02:36,188 --> 00:02:55,500\n阿有沒有嘛沒有嘛對不對因為你說不是這樣子溝通就有用可是為什麼當初這個菸草和這個我們的醫療診所就馬上就那個新聞一爆出來你們馬上轉彎了沒關係我只想知道他有沒有溝通阿這是第一件事我報告委員齁我想這個菸草那個事情齁是我們台灣沒有不用解釋那個我沒有要問那個問題我只是一樣回到我的問題就是說我們的衛福部長有沒有跟我們經濟部這邊來討論有關於這部分有這樣子的需求或者是因為這樣子因為現在\n\n9\n00:03:05,006 --> 00:03:12,473\n我們的部署裡面應該就是有溝通啦但是沒有直接跟你溝通因為我比較忙一點啦那我直接再跳下面好了這題反正就是沒有跟你直接溝通因為你比較忙他比較不忙\n\n10\n00:03:28,268 --> 00:03:47,366\n我想要請問您發想要去菲律賓和日本等地蓋電廠會有這樣的想法主要的目的是因為國內電力供應不穩嗎還是因為提供國內的綠電需求一或者兩者都要有不是這樣子這個我從早上到現在已經講了20次了對\n\n11\n00:03:49,818 --> 00:04:09,551\n我們到菲律賓這是一個命題跟國內的綠電完全沒有關係但是部長您要知道這個命題在這個時間點出現就是會讓人民很恐慌的事情對我的言語不夠精準非常抱歉這真的是讓人覺得天馬行空並急亂投移真的是讓人覺得很緊張因為當初我們就已經講過討論過這個所有能源配比的問題\n\n12\n00:04:14,454 --> 00:04:36,589\n所以我在這邊要跟委員報告這一個跟我們的能源政策是沒有關係的所以這只是國際討論在研討這個能源的時候這其中一個重要的命題好部長那另外這個碳費費率已經公佈了嘛那根據已公告的碳費收費辦法的第3條\n\n13\n00:04:37,429 --> 00:05:00,726\n那大概就是有這個範疇一製程與設施再加上範疇二有間接能源的部分超過2.5萬噸則收這個碳費的部分了那我想關於製程跟設施的提升和改善當然政府要輔導可是主要也是企業自己在努力阿他們也在努力了嘛對不對但範疇二的部分呢就是這個間接能源的部分可是目前依照我們這樣子的能源配比\n\n14\n00:05:02,237 --> 00:05:26,357\n這個部分其實就是削弱了他們國際上的競爭力如果比起那些用電這個有一些國家能源配比比較合理的甚至有用核能發電平均去發電的這樣子的這樣子的企業對他們來講我們國家我們國內的這些廠商是不是會面臨到很大的競爭的問題因為他也在這個範球位的部分是我們錯誤的能源配比我想請教部長這個你覺得合理嗎\n\n15\n00:05:27,368 --> 00:05:44,161\n政策會因為這個時間而改變沒有說哪一個時間它是正確哪一個時間是錯誤所以你的意思是說未來可能會改變決定要用何能是這樣嗎還是不一定還是說正能源配比也只是暫時性的不會說只有50%就是多久會變我們現在這個都是在與時俱進所以這是滾動式的討論我們會滾動式的討論然後會seeking所有新的能源\n\n16\n00:05:52,708 --> 00:06:09,765\n所有可以用的、可以降低成本的能源我們都可以用是部長但是你們現在這樣子就是讓人民很害怕因為這時間是不等人的啦你以為隨便想要蓋一個核能廠或是核能廠要研議隨時就可以有嗎當然不是嘛一個核電廠要6年然後一個核能廠研議要3年對所以我要說你們當初能源的發展綱領也8年多沒調整你跟我說滾動式調整\n\n17\n00:06:16,812 --> 00:06:39,202\n我是說從現在開始我沒有講說過去8年我沒有參與所以我沒有辦法回答過去8年為什麼沒有調整但是從現在開始我跟你們報告的就是我們會滾動式的調整請這個委員能夠了解也知道說我們在努力啊為國人的這個用電上面創造一個新的環境\n\n18\n00:06:39,882 --> 00:07:02,960\n所以這樣新的環境還是維持這樣子天然氣50﹖不是,我們的新的環境會讓它在國際的市場上面具有競爭力所以你現在要往這邊方向努力對不對?所以部長我這裡就是要告訴你因為現在持續這樣子做這樣子的能源配比你目前是做不到這件事目前是沒有辦法讓這些企業在國際上會有競爭力單就範疇二的部分我請部長要務實的這個幫助企業幫助我們國家解決這樣的問題好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11478\t12802\t謝謝主席 邀請部長 請郭部長\n21826\t44712\t委員好部長好剛剛高金委員講的一切在我總質詢的時候應該也有講過類似的話題然後就是說我們現在能源配比就好比是在打棒球賽一樣根本就是硬要堅持這樣做是打假球的一個行為那身為球隊總經理其實當初我想大家看到您來接這個經濟部長的時候是希望你在\n45712\t60225\t業界的經驗然後你是企業家你可以有理性務實然後真正可以幫我們做理性的判斷但現在看到這樣子實在是令人覺得不知道是你有沒有持續保持這個初心所以我也是呼應一下剛剛我們高經緯委員說的\n61286\t71133\t那甚至是您剛剛的這個這個想要去菲律賓日本設電廠的這個問題那這個我們等一下再來討論但是在開始之前我還是想要先問一下部長因為上一次您沒有來是次長來可是我有提到一個問題就是我有收到民間的陳情就是這個藥局因為藥商藥廠因為這次被漲電價所以他就要求說他的所有藥要乘以1.1給藥局對不對這個部分\n88886\t90587\t因為這個不是需要溝通的問題啦\n114461\t131869\t這當然可以溝通我只想問他有沒有來跟您提過這個類似的事情因為我當初其實我也有把那個資料用出來就是說這個他們有沒有去跟你溝通這個問題我想只要有沒有而已啦衛福部長有沒有跟我們郭部長這邊來溝通或是相關的單位有沒有溝通這個問題\n140007\t153565\t這個問題應該有吧?呃,跟委員報告齁,因為一般的藥房都是那個用電比較小,都是累積的那個你就不用解釋,我只問有沒有來溝通這件事因為我當時就有請他去溝通,他答應我說要溝通,請問有溝通嗎?是啊,我們會溝通啦\n156188\t175500\t阿有沒有嘛沒有嘛對不對因為你說不是這樣子溝通就有用可是為什麼當初這個菸草和這個我們的醫療診所就馬上就那個新聞一爆出來你們馬上轉彎了沒關係我只想知道他有沒有溝通阿這是第一件事我報告委員齁我想這個菸草那個事情齁是我們台灣沒有不用解釋那個我沒有要問那個問題我只是一樣回到我的問題就是說我們的衛福部長有沒有跟我們經濟部這邊來討論有關於這部分有這樣子的需求或者是因為這樣子因為現在\n185006\t192473\t我們的部署裡面應該就是有溝通啦但是沒有直接跟你溝通因為我比較忙一點啦那我直接再跳下面好了這題反正就是沒有跟你直接溝通因為你比較忙他比較不忙\n208268\t227366\t我想要請問您發想要去菲律賓和日本等地蓋電廠會有這樣的想法主要的目的是因為國內電力供應不穩嗎還是因為提供國內的綠電需求一或者兩者都要有不是這樣子這個我從早上到現在已經講了20次了對\n229818\t249551\t我們到菲律賓這是一個命題跟國內的綠電完全沒有關係但是部長您要知道這個命題在這個時間點出現就是會讓人民很恐慌的事情對我的言語不夠精準非常抱歉這真的是讓人覺得天馬行空並急亂投移真的是讓人覺得很緊張因為當初我們就已經講過討論過這個所有能源配比的問題\n254454\t276589\t所以我在這邊要跟委員報告這一個跟我們的能源政策是沒有關係的所以這只是國際討論在研討這個能源的時候這其中一個重要的命題好部長那另外這個碳費費率已經公佈了嘛那根據已公告的碳費收費辦法的第3條\n277429\t300726\t那大概就是有這個範疇一製程與設施再加上範疇二有間接能源的部分超過2.5萬噸則收這個碳費的部分了那我想關於製程跟設施的提升和改善當然政府要輔導可是主要也是企業自己在努力阿他們也在努力了嘛對不對但範疇二的部分呢就是這個間接能源的部分可是目前依照我們這樣子的能源配比\n302237\t326357\t這個部分其實就是削弱了他們國際上的競爭力如果比起那些用電這個有一些國家能源配比比較合理的甚至有用核能發電平均去發電的這樣子的這樣子的企業對他們來講我們國家我們國內的這些廠商是不是會面臨到很大的競爭的問題因為他也在這個範球位的部分是我們錯誤的能源配比我想請教部長這個你覺得合理嗎\n327368\t344161\t政策會因為這個時間而改變沒有說哪一個時間它是正確哪一個時間是錯誤所以你的意思是說未來可能會改變決定要用何能是這樣嗎還是不一定還是說正能源配比也只是暫時性的不會說只有50%就是多久會變我們現在這個都是在與時俱進所以這是滾動式的討論我們會滾動式的討論然後會seeking所有新的能源\n352708\t369765\t所有可以用的、可以降低成本的能源我們都可以用是部長但是你們現在這樣子就是讓人民很害怕因為這時間是不等人的啦你以為隨便想要蓋一個核能廠或是核能廠要研議隨時就可以有嗎當然不是嘛一個核電廠要6年然後一個核能廠研議要3年對所以我要說你們當初能源的發展綱領也8年多沒調整你跟我說滾動式調整\n376812\t399202\t我是說從現在開始我沒有講說過去8年我沒有參與所以我沒有辦法回答過去8年為什麼沒有調整但是從現在開始我跟你們報告的就是我們會滾動式的調整請這個委員能夠了解也知道說我們在努力啊為國人的這個用電上面創造一個新的環境\n399882\t422960\t所以這樣新的環境還是維持這樣子天然氣50﹖不是,我們的新的環境會讓它在國際的市場上面具有競爭力所以你現在要往這邊方向努力對不對?所以部長我這裡就是要告訴你因為現在持續這樣子做這樣子的能源配比你目前是做不到這件事目前是沒有辦法讓這些企業在國際上會有競爭力單就範疇二的部分我請部長要務實的這個幫助企業幫助我們國家解決這樣的問題好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 邀請部長 請郭部長\n委員好部長好剛剛高金委員講的一切在我總質詢的時候應該也有講過類似的話題然後就是說我們現在能源配比就好比是在打棒球賽一樣根本就是硬要堅持這樣做是打假球的一個行為那身為球隊總經理其實當初我想大家看到您來接這個經濟部長的時候是希望你在\n業界的經驗然後你是企業家你可以有理性務實然後真正可以幫我們做理性的判斷但現在看到這樣子實在是令人覺得不知道是你有沒有持續保持這個初心所以我也是呼應一下剛剛我們高經緯委員說的\n那甚至是您剛剛的這個這個想要去菲律賓日本設電廠的這個問題那這個我們等一下再來討論但是在開始之前我還是想要先問一下部長因為上一次您沒有來是次長來可是我有提到一個問題就是我有收到民間的陳情就是這個藥局因為藥商藥廠因為這次被漲電價所以他就要求說他的所有藥要乘以1.1給藥局對不對這個部分\n因為這個不是需要溝通的問題啦\n這當然可以溝通我只想問他有沒有來跟您提過這個類似的事情因為我當初其實我也有把那個資料用出來就是說這個他們有沒有去跟你溝通這個問題我想只要有沒有而已啦衛福部長有沒有跟我們郭部長這邊來溝通或是相關的單位有沒有溝通這個問題\n這個問題應該有吧?呃,跟委員報告齁,因為一般的藥房都是那個用電比較小,都是累積的那個你就不用解釋,我只問有沒有來溝通這件事因為我當時就有請他去溝通,他答應我說要溝通,請問有溝通嗎?是啊,我們會溝通啦\n阿有沒有嘛沒有嘛對不對因為你說不是這樣子溝通就有用可是為什麼當初這個菸草和這個我們的醫療診所就馬上就那個新聞一爆出來你們馬上轉彎了沒關係我只想知道他有沒有溝通阿這是第一件事我報告委員齁我想這個菸草那個事情齁是我們台灣沒有不用解釋那個我沒有要問那個問題我只是一樣回到我的問題就是說我們的衛福部長有沒有跟我們經濟部這邊來討論有關於這部分有這樣子的需求或者是因為這樣子因為現在\n我們的部署裡面應該就是有溝通啦但是沒有直接跟你溝通因為我比較忙一點啦那我直接再跳下面好了這題反正就是沒有跟你直接溝通因為你比較忙他比較不忙\n我想要請問您發想要去菲律賓和日本等地蓋電廠會有這樣的想法主要的目的是因為國內電力供應不穩嗎還是因為提供國內的綠電需求一或者兩者都要有不是這樣子這個我從早上到現在已經講了20次了對\n我們到菲律賓這是一個命題跟國內的綠電完全沒有關係但是部長您要知道這個命題在這個時間點出現就是會讓人民很恐慌的事情對我的言語不夠精準非常抱歉這真的是讓人覺得天馬行空並急亂投移真的是讓人覺得很緊張因為當初我們就已經講過討論過這個所有能源配比的問題\n所以我在這邊要跟委員報告這一個跟我們的能源政策是沒有關係的所以這只是國際討論在研討這個能源的時候這其中一個重要的命題好部長那另外這個碳費費率已經公佈了嘛那根據已公告的碳費收費辦法的第3條\n那大概就是有這個範疇一製程與設施再加上範疇二有間接能源的部分超過2.5萬噸則收這個碳費的部分了那我想關於製程跟設施的提升和改善當然政府要輔導可是主要也是企業自己在努力阿他們也在努力了嘛對不對但範疇二的部分呢就是這個間接能源的部分可是目前依照我們這樣子的能源配比\n這個部分其實就是削弱了他們國際上的競爭力如果比起那些用電這個有一些國家能源配比比較合理的甚至有用核能發電平均去發電的這樣子的這樣子的企業對他們來講我們國家我們國內的這些廠商是不是會面臨到很大的競爭的問題因為他也在這個範球位的部分是我們錯誤的能源配比我想請教部長這個你覺得合理嗎\n政策會因為這個時間而改變沒有說哪一個時間它是正確哪一個時間是錯誤所以你的意思是說未來可能會改變決定要用何能是這樣嗎還是不一定還是說正能源配比也只是暫時性的不會說只有50%就是多久會變我們現在這個都是在與時俱進所以這是滾動式的討論我們會滾動式的討論然後會seeking所有新的能源\n所有可以用的、可以降低成本的能源我們都可以用是部長但是你們現在這樣子就是讓人民很害怕因為這時間是不等人的啦你以為隨便想要蓋一個核能廠或是核能廠要研議隨時就可以有嗎當然不是嘛一個核電廠要6年然後一個核能廠研議要3年對所以我要說你們當初能源的發展綱領也8年多沒調整你跟我說滾動式調整\n我是說從現在開始我沒有講說過去8年我沒有參與所以我沒有辦法回答過去8年為什麼沒有調整但是從現在開始我跟你們報告的就是我們會滾動式的調整請這個委員能夠了解也知道說我們在努力啊為國人的這個用電上面創造一個新的環境\n所以這樣新的環境還是維持這樣子天然氣50﹖不是,我們的新的環境會讓它在國際的市場上面具有競爭力所以你現在要往這邊方向努力對不對?所以部長我這裡就是要告訴你因為現在持續這樣子做這樣子的能源配比你目前是做不到這件事目前是沒有辦法讓這些企業在國際上會有競爭力單就範疇二的部分我請部長要務實的這個幫助企業幫助我們國家解決這樣的問題好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.478 --> 00:12.802\n謝謝主席邀請部長請郭部長\n\n00:21.826 --> 00:44.712\n委員好部長好剛剛高金委員講的一切在我總質詢的時候應該也有講過類似的話題然後就是說我們現在能源配比就好比是在打棒球賽一樣根本就是硬要堅持這樣做是打假球的一個行為那身為球隊總經理其實當初我想大家看到您來接這個經濟部長的時候是希望你在\n\n00:45.712 --> 01:00.225\n業界的經驗然後你是企業家你可以有理性務實然後真正可以幫我們做理性的判斷但現在看到這樣子實在是令人覺得不知道是你有沒有持續保持這個初心所以我也是呼應一下剛剛我們高經緯委員說的\n\n01:01.286 --> 01:11.133\n那甚至是您剛剛的這個這個想要去菲律賓日本設電廠的這個問題那這個我們等一下再來討論但是在開始之前我還是想要先問一下部長因為上一次您沒有來是次長來可是我有提到一個問題就是我有收到民間的陳情就是這個藥局因為藥商藥廠因為這次被漲電價所以他就要求說他的所有藥要乘以1.1給藥局對不對這個部分\n\n01:28.886 --> 01:30.587\n因為這個不是需要溝通的問題啦\n\n01:54.461 --> 02:11.869\n這當然可以溝通我只想問他有沒有來跟您提過這個類似的事情因為我當初其實我也有把那個資料用出來就是說這個他們有沒有去跟你溝通這個問題我想只要有沒有而已啦衛福部長有沒有跟我們郭部長這邊來溝通或是相關的單位有沒有溝通這個問題\n\n02:20.007 --> 02:33.565\n這個問題應該有吧?呃,跟委員報告齁,因為一般的藥房都是那個用電比較小,都是累積的那個你就不用解釋,我只問有沒有來溝通這件事因為我當時就有請他去溝通,他答應我說要溝通,請問有溝通嗎?是啊,我們會溝通啦\n\n02:36.188 --> 02:55.500\n阿有沒有嘛沒有嘛對不對因為你說不是這樣子溝通就有用可是為什麼當初這個菸草和這個我們的醫療診所就馬上就那個新聞一爆出來你們馬上轉彎了沒關係我只想知道他有沒有溝通阿這是第一件事我報告委員齁我想這個菸草那個事情齁是我們台灣沒有不用解釋那個我沒有要問那個問題我只是一樣回到我的問題就是說我們的衛福部長有沒有跟我們經濟部這邊來討論有關於這部分有這樣子的需求或者是因為這樣子因為現在\n\n03:05.006 --> 03:12.473\n我們的部署裡面應該就是有溝通啦但是沒有直接跟你溝通因為我比較忙一點啦那我直接再跳下面好了這題反正就是沒有跟你直接溝通因為你比較忙他比較不忙\n\n03:28.268 --> 03:47.366\n我想要請問您發想要去菲律賓和日本等地蓋電廠會有這樣的想法主要的目的是因為國內電力供應不穩嗎還是因為提供國內的綠電需求一或者兩者都要有不是這樣子這個我從早上到現在已經講了20次了對\n\n03:49.818 --> 04:09.551\n我們到菲律賓這是一個命題跟國內的綠電完全沒有關係但是部長您要知道這個命題在這個時間點出現就是會讓人民很恐慌的事情對我的言語不夠精準非常抱歉這真的是讓人覺得天馬行空並急亂投移真的是讓人覺得很緊張因為當初我們就已經講過討論過這個所有能源配比的問題\n\n04:14.454 --> 04:36.589\n所以我在這邊要跟委員報告這一個跟我們的能源政策是沒有關係的所以這只是國際討論在研討這個能源的時候這其中一個重要的命題好部長那另外這個碳費費率已經公佈了嘛那根據已公告的碳費收費辦法的第3條\n\n04:37.429 --> 05:00.726\n那大概就是有這個範疇一製程與設施再加上範疇二有間接能源的部分超過2.5萬噸則收這個碳費的部分了那我想關於製程跟設施的提升和改善當然政府要輔導可是主要也是企業自己在努力阿他們也在努力了嘛對不對但範疇二的部分呢就是這個間接能源的部分可是目前依照我們這樣子的能源配比\n\n05:02.237 --> 05:26.357\n這個部分其實就是削弱了他們國際上的競爭力如果比起那些用電這個有一些國家能源配比比較合理的甚至有用核能發電平均去發電的這樣子的這樣子的企業對他們來講我們國家我們國內的這些廠商是不是會面臨到很大的競爭的問題因為他也在這個範球位的部分是我們錯誤的能源配比我想請教部長這個你覺得合理嗎\n\n05:27.368 --> 05:44.161\n政策會因為這個時間而改變沒有說哪一個時間它是正確哪一個時間是錯誤所以你的意思是說未來可能會改變決定要用何能是這樣嗎還是不一定還是說正能源配比也只是暫時性的不會說只有50%就是多久會變我們現在這個都是在與時俱進所以這是滾動式的討論我們會滾動式的討論然後會seeking所有新的能源\n\n05:52.708 --> 06:09.765\n所有可以用的、可以降低成本的能源我們都可以用是部長但是你們現在這樣子就是讓人民很害怕因為這時間是不等人的啦你以為隨便想要蓋一個核能廠或是核能廠要研議隨時就可以有嗎當然不是嘛一個核電廠要6年然後一個核能廠研議要3年對所以我要說你們當初能源的發展綱領也8年多沒調整你跟我說滾動式調整\n\n06:16.812 --> 06:39.202\n我是說從現在開始我沒有講說過去8年我沒有參與所以我沒有辦法回答過去8年為什麼沒有調整但是從現在開始我跟你們報告的就是我們會滾動式的調整請這個委員能夠了解也知道說我們在努力啊為國人的這個用電上面創造一個新的環境\n\n06:39.882 --> 07:02.960\n所以這樣新的環境還是維持這樣子天然氣50﹖不是,我們的新的環境會讓它在國際的市場上面具有競爭力所以你現在要往這邊方向努力對不對?所以部長我這裡就是要告訴你因為現在持續這樣子做這樣子的能源配比你目前是做不到這件事目前是沒有辦法讓這些企業在國際上會有競爭力單就範疇二的部分我請部長要務實的這個幫助企業幫助我們國家解決這樣的問題好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.478,"end":12.802,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請部長 請郭部長"},{"start":21.826,"end":44.712,"text":"委員好部長好剛剛高金委員講的一切在我總質詢的時候應該也有講過類似的話題然後就是說我們現在能源配比就好比是在打棒球賽一樣根本就是硬要堅持這樣做是打假球的一個行為那身為球隊總經理其實當初我想大家看到您來接這個經濟部長的時候是希望你在"},{"start":45.712,"end":60.225,"text":"業界的經驗然後你是企業家你可以有理性務實然後真正可以幫我們做理性的判斷但現在看到這樣子實在是令人覺得不知道是你有沒有持續保持這個初心所以我也是呼應一下剛剛我們高經緯委員說的"},{"start":61.286,"end":71.133,"text":"那甚至是您剛剛的這個這個想要去菲律賓日本設電廠的這個問題那這個我們等一下再來討論但是在開始之前我還是想要先問一下部長因為上一次您沒有來是次長來可是我有提到一個問題就是我有收到民間的陳情就是這個藥局因為藥商藥廠因為這次被漲電價所以他就要求說他的所有藥要乘以1.1給藥局對不對這個部分"},{"start":88.886,"end":90.587,"text":"因為這個不是需要溝通的問題啦"},{"start":114.461,"end":131.869,"text":"這當然可以溝通我只想問他有沒有來跟您提過這個類似的事情因為我當初其實我也有把那個資料用出來就是說這個他們有沒有去跟你溝通這個問題我想只要有沒有而已啦衛福部長有沒有跟我們郭部長這邊來溝通或是相關的單位有沒有溝通這個問題"},{"start":140.007,"end":153.565,"text":"這個問題應該有吧?呃,跟委員報告齁,因為一般的藥房都是那個用電比較小,都是累積的那個你就不用解釋,我只問有沒有來溝通這件事因為我當時就有請他去溝通,他答應我說要溝通,請問有溝通嗎?是啊,我們會溝通啦"},{"start":156.188,"end":175.5,"text":"阿有沒有嘛沒有嘛對不對因為你說不是這樣子溝通就有用可是為什麼當初這個菸草和這個我們的醫療診所就馬上就那個新聞一爆出來你們馬上轉彎了沒關係我只想知道他有沒有溝通阿這是第一件事我報告委員齁我想這個菸草那個事情齁是我們台灣沒有不用解釋那個我沒有要問那個問題我只是一樣回到我的問題就是說我們的衛福部長有沒有跟我們經濟部這邊來討論有關於這部分有這樣子的需求或者是因為這樣子因為現在"},{"start":185.006,"end":192.473,"text":"我們的部署裡面應該就是有溝通啦但是沒有直接跟你溝通因為我比較忙一點啦那我直接再跳下面好了這題反正就是沒有跟你直接溝通因為你比較忙他比較不忙"},{"start":208.268,"end":227.366,"text":"我想要請問您發想要去菲律賓和日本等地蓋電廠會有這樣的想法主要的目的是因為國內電力供應不穩嗎還是因為提供國內的綠電需求一或者兩者都要有不是這樣子這個我從早上到現在已經講了20次了對"},{"start":229.818,"end":249.551,"text":"我們到菲律賓這是一個命題跟國內的綠電完全沒有關係但是部長您要知道這個命題在這個時間點出現就是會讓人民很恐慌的事情對我的言語不夠精準非常抱歉這真的是讓人覺得天馬行空並急亂投移真的是讓人覺得很緊張因為當初我們就已經講過討論過這個所有能源配比的問題"},{"start":254.454,"end":276.589,"text":"所以我在這邊要跟委員報告這一個跟我們的能源政策是沒有關係的所以這只是國際討論在研討這個能源的時候這其中一個重要的命題好部長那另外這個碳費費率已經公佈了嘛那根據已公告的碳費收費辦法的第3條"},{"start":277.429,"end":300.726,"text":"那大概就是有這個範疇一製程與設施再加上範疇二有間接能源的部分超過2.5萬噸則收這個碳費的部分了那我想關於製程跟設施的提升和改善當然政府要輔導可是主要也是企業自己在努力阿他們也在努力了嘛對不對但範疇二的部分呢就是這個間接能源的部分可是目前依照我們這樣子的能源配比"},{"start":302.237,"end":326.357,"text":"這個部分其實就是削弱了他們國際上的競爭力如果比起那些用電這個有一些國家能源配比比較合理的甚至有用核能發電平均去發電的這樣子的這樣子的企業對他們來講我們國家我們國內的這些廠商是不是會面臨到很大的競爭的問題因為他也在這個範球位的部分是我們錯誤的能源配比我想請教部長這個你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":327.368,"end":344.161,"text":"政策會因為這個時間而改變沒有說哪一個時間它是正確哪一個時間是錯誤所以你的意思是說未來可能會改變決定要用何能是這樣嗎還是不一定還是說正能源配比也只是暫時性的不會說只有50%就是多久會變我們現在這個都是在與時俱進所以這是滾動式的討論我們會滾動式的討論然後會seeking所有新的能源"},{"start":352.708,"end":369.765,"text":"所有可以用的、可以降低成本的能源我們都可以用是部長但是你們現在這樣子就是讓人民很害怕因為這時間是不等人的啦你以為隨便想要蓋一個核能廠或是核能廠要研議隨時就可以有嗎當然不是嘛一個核電廠要6年然後一個核能廠研議要3年對所以我要說你們當初能源的發展綱領也8年多沒調整你跟我說滾動式調整"},{"start":376.812,"end":399.202,"text":"我是說從現在開始我沒有講說過去8年我沒有參與所以我沒有辦法回答過去8年為什麼沒有調整但是從現在開始我跟你們報告的就是我們會滾動式的調整請這個委員能夠了解也知道說我們在努力啊為國人的這個用電上面創造一個新的環境"},{"start":399.882,"end":422.96,"text":"所以這樣新的環境還是維持這樣子天然氣50﹖不是,我們的新的環境會讓它在國際的市場上面具有競爭力所以你現在要往這邊方向努力對不對?所以部長我這裡就是要告訴你因為現在持續這樣子做這樣子的能源配比你目前是做不到這件事目前是沒有辦法讓這些企業在國際上會有競爭力單就範疇二的部分我請部長要務實的這個幫助企業幫助我們國家解決這樣的問題好謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":5,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:52:14 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13:59:24","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。）","id":155624,"gazette":{"lineno":1282,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（13時52分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長好。剛剛高金委員講的一切，在我們總質詢的時候應該也有講過類似的話題，我們現在的能源配比就好比在打棒球賽一樣，根本就是硬要堅持這樣做，是打假球的行為，身為球隊的總經理……其實當初我想大家看到您來接這個經濟部長的時候，是希望你在業界的經驗，你是企業家，你可以理性、務實，真正幫我們做理性的判斷，但是現在看到這樣子，實在是令人覺得不知道你有沒有持續保持這個初心，所以我還是呼應一下剛剛高金委員說的，甚至是你剛剛想要去菲律賓、日本設電廠的這個問題，這個我們等一下再來討論。","在開始之前我還是想要先問一下部長，因為上一次沒有來，是次長來，可是我有提到一個問題，就是我有收到民間藥局的陳情，藥廠因為這次被漲電價，所以它就要求它的所有藥要乘以1.1給藥局。藥局的部分，它的感覺是這樣子，過去疫情期間它們幫忙發口罩，當第一線，結果在這個時候居然沒有減免等等的政策，所以它們覺得很遺憾。但是沒關係，我有問過，我當時有去請衛福部長就這個部分是不是可以來跟你溝通，我想請問，他後來有跟你溝通這個問題嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個不是需要溝通的問題啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：這當然可以溝通。"],["郭部長智輝：藥局我們應該沒有漲啊！"],["廖委員偉翔：我只是想問他有沒有來跟你提過類似的事情，因為我當初其實也有把那個資料用出來，就是說他們有沒有去跟你溝通這個問題？"],["郭部長智輝：我們……"],["廖委員偉翔：我想知道有沒有而已啦！"],["郭部長智輝：你是說部長？"],["廖委員偉翔：衛福部部長有沒有跟郭部長這邊來溝通，或是相關的單位有沒有溝通這個問題？"],["郭部長智輝：這個問題應該有吧！"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，一般的藥房都是用電比較小，都是累積用電。"],["廖委員偉翔：不用，那個你先不用解釋，我只是問你有沒有來溝通這件事？因為我當時就有請他去溝通，他答應我說要溝通，請問有溝通嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是啊！我們會溝通啦！但是不是說……"],["廖委員偉翔：有沒有嘛！沒有嘛！對不對？因為你說不是這樣子溝通就有用，可是為什麼當初菸草和醫療診所的新聞一爆出來，你們馬上轉彎了？沒關係，我只是想要知道他有沒有溝通啦！這是第一件事。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想菸草那個事情是我們台電內部……"],["廖委員偉翔：沒有，不用解釋，我沒有要問那個問題，我只是一樣回到我的問題，就是衛福部長有沒有跟經濟部這邊來討論有關於這個部分有這樣子的需求，或者是因為這樣子……因為現在藥界也是有它的問題存在，包括供應鏈、穩定性的問題，所以它們有要求這個部分是不是可以納入考量，我只是想請問他有沒有來溝通這件事。"],["郭部長智輝：我們的部屬裡面應該有溝通啦！但是沒有直接跟我，因為我比較忙一點。"],["廖委員偉翔：應該說你不確定，沒有直接跟你溝通。我直接跳下面好了，這一題反正就是沒有跟你直接溝通啦！因為你比較忙，他比較不忙。","我想要請問，你發想要去菲律賓、日本等地蓋電廠，會有這樣的想法，主要的目的是因為國內電力供應不穩嗎？還是因為提供國內的綠電需求，亦或者兩者都有？"],["郭部長智輝：不是這樣子，這個我從早上到現在大概已經講了20次了。我們到菲律賓就是一個命題，跟國內的綠電完全沒有關係。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是部長你要知道，這個命題在這個時間點出現，就是會讓人民很恐慌的事情。"],["郭部長智輝：是，所以我對我的言語不夠精準非常抱歉。"],["廖委員偉翔：這陣子真的是讓人覺得天馬行空，然後病急亂投醫，真的是讓人覺得很緊張。"],["郭部長智輝：也不是這個樣子。"],["廖委員偉翔：因為當初我們就已經講過、討論過所謂能源配比的問題，包含當初對於核三除役您的態度到底是什麼。"],["郭部長智輝：所以我這邊要跟委員報告，這個跟我們的能源政策是沒有關係的，那個是國際討論在研討能源的時候，其中一個很重要的命題。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，部長，這個剛剛您講過了。部長，另外，碳費費率已經公布了，根據已公告的碳費收費辦法第三條，大概就是有範疇一製程與設施，再加上範疇二間接能源的部分，超過2.5萬噸則收碳費的部分。我想關於製程跟設施的提升和改善，當然政府要輔導，可是主要也是企業自己在努力，它們也在努力了嘛！對不對？但範疇二就是間接能源的部分，可是目前依照我們這樣子的能源配比，這個部分其實削弱了它們在國際上的競爭力，如果比起那些用電，有一些國家的能源配比比較合理，甚至有用核能平均去發電這樣子的企業，對它們來講，我們國內的廠商是不是會面臨到很大的競爭問題？因為在範疇二的部分是我們錯誤的能源配比。我想請教部長，這個你覺得合理嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：政策會因為這個時間而改變，沒有說哪一個時間它是正確，哪一個時間是錯誤。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你的意思是說未來可能會改變，決定要用核能，是這樣嗎？還是不一定。"],["郭部長智輝：我們都可以討論。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以這個能源配比也只是暫時性的，不會說只有50%，就是多久會變？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在都是在與時俱進，所以這是滾動式的討論，我們會滾動式的討論，然後會seeking所有新的能源、所有可以用、可以降低成本的能源。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，但是你們現在這樣子就是讓人民很害怕，因為時間是不等人的啊！你以為隨便想要蓋一個核能廠或是核能廠要延役，隨時就可以有嗎？當然不是嘛！所以我那天也指出你們能源的發展綱領……"],["郭部長智輝：核能廠要6年，然後延役要3年。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，所以我要說你們當初能源的發展綱領也8年都沒調整，你跟我說滾動式調整，當然這是一個大方向。"],["郭部長智輝：我是說從現在開始，我沒有講過去8年，過去8年我沒有參與，所以我沒有辦法回答過去8年為什麼沒有調整，但是從現在開始，我跟您報告的就是我們會滾動式的調整，請委員能夠了解，也知道我們在努力為國人用電上面創造一個新的環境。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以新的環境還是維持這樣子的天然氣50%，然後何時會改變？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我們這個新的環境，會讓它在國際市場上具有競爭力。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你現在要往這個方向去努力，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我就是要告訴你，因為現在持續做這樣子的能源配比，你目前是做不到這件事的，目前沒有辦法讓這些企業在國際上有競爭力，單就範疇二的部分。我請部長要務實地幫助企業，幫助我們國家解決這樣的問題，好，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝。"],["主席：請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","陳超明","郭國文","賴士葆","萬美玲","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","黃國昌","王育敏","陳昭姿","高金素梅","廖偉翔","黃健豪","葉元之","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","涂權吉","何欣純","徐富癸","徐欣瑩","林思銘","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進\n行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138401_00017"}}}