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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,229 --> 00:00:01,130\n請翁曉玲委員質詢請郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:23,234 --> 00:00:51,169\n委員好是部長也辛苦了齁那麼這個大家今天其實都非常關心台灣的電力能源配比的問題但是呢看起來這個部長您現在還是有很多的想法那麼同時呢這個您的想法可能能夠想可能跟民進黨政府的這個想法也不盡相同啊那麼所以呢對於這個電力的能源配比怎麼樣才是個最好的最適的規模啊我在想這個未來可能還有很多的要\n\n3\n00:00:51,789 --> 00:00:52,029\n發言委員：曉玲\n\n4\n00:01:13,244 --> 00:01:22,983\n其實在國外的這個MIT的教授他其實就做了一個各類發電方式的溫室氣體排放量的比較可以知道其實\n\n5\n00:01:54,673 --> 00:02:08,063\n這個核電基本上還是最好的選擇雖然說民進黨政府基本上這個一直不願意去承認面對這個事實但我想請教部長是您知不知道在9月30號英國關閉了最後一座燃煤發電廠這個新聞您知道嗎\n\n6\n00:02:12,279 --> 00:02:18,762\n這個我知道好那麼英國他們在2015年的時候他們的當時保守黨政府就已經確立了2025年之前要關閉高碳排的燃煤發電廠可是在此同時我們看民進黨政府當時做了什麼決定當時他們修法希望能夠在2025年台灣要進入非核家園當時就修了電業法\n\n7\n00:02:35,931 --> 00:02:39,074\n還好後來因為我們公投修了電業法把2025年非核家園的這個相關的規定給修掉了所以到現在我們還可以繼續再討論核電廠是不是可以繼續研議的這個議題不過就是無論如何但是看起來現在民黨政府好像也不打算要將核電廠研議部長您在您任內有可能\n\n8\n00:03:04,614 --> 00:03:27,603\n可以做到希望能夠宣告核電廠營業的這個政策嗎我想經濟部的立場是這樣的所有的電我們都希望特別是綠電那您剛才講的這個部分我想我們有三個前提第一個就是說全民有共識全民當然有高度的共識然後第二個是它是安全的\n\n9\n00:03:28,393 --> 00:03:36,716\n第三個是核廢料可以處理的這三個前提如果都能夠達到我們可以繼續往下來討論這三個前提其實全台灣都有共識而且我們都有高度的這個核能科技方面的素養接下來我們看下一頁這個我們知道其實現在美國歐美國家的科技業龍頭其實大家都已經紛紛的這個採取要使用核電而且甚至連這個買購買這個相關的電力能源契約都已經改採清楚的指示\n\n10\n00:03:58,322 --> 00:03:58,842\n請問部長您知道我們停電每停一度電\n\n11\n00:04:26,657 --> 00:04:46,910\n人民可以得到多少的補償這個我不知道您不知道那您想想看您覺得我們這樣子這個停電這個兩個小時我們可以得到多少的賠償我是不是請台電的總經理跟您報告趕快吧報告委員停電是一個小時大概幾個\n\n12\n00:04:51,045 --> 00:05:00,143\n你也不清楚我告訴大家這停電一天一天24小時之內每一度電只賠1.33元\n\n13\n00:05:02,826 --> 00:05:26,578\n我告訴大家我們現在台電所訂定的這個消費性用電服務契約裡面的規定是非常非常不合理這還是只是類似補償的概念喔因為我這段時間裡面我沒有用到電所以我的電費是扣除可是讓人有沒有想到我們停電所造成的人民的財產的損失甚至有些可能還會影響到他的身體健康帶呼吸器的人他沒有電的時候要怎麼辦\n\n14\n00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:45,637\n這個問題是非常嚴重的但我要講的就是消費性用電服務契約裡面規定極不合理而且大家知道如果說是因為台電的用電不足或者說自己故障等等這些原因也是賠償的補償的一點點的錢\n\n15\n00:05:48,401 --> 00:06:01,882\n這是極不合理變成說錯誤的能源政策所造成的缺點必須要全民來負擔那本期在這邊要給你們一個提示當然我們來看看德國你看德國是如何能夠真的走入變成是非核家園\n\n16\n00:06:03,291 --> 00:06:05,972\n他能夠保證全國不停電至少不大規模的停電如果停電的話怎麼辦德國的這個相關規定地壓供電電網連接使用辦法裡面規定如果說因為電力公司故意或重大過測行為造成用電戶的受損害不是只有補償電費而已還包含要賠償相關損害費用的還要負損害賠償責任\n\n17\n00:06:27,902 --> 00:06:34,707\n如果是因為不是基於故意或重大過失造成用電貨的財產損失他的賠償責任總而是定額賠償每戶最高可以請求5000歐元的賠償5000歐元是什麼概念?就可以賠償17萬5000塊台幣這是非常高的所以德國的電力公司有辦法做到這個程度可是台電有辦法嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:53,124 --> 00:07:16,812\n我希望台電要研議相關的這個契約如何的修正改正能夠符合人民的期待我們不要平白無故的因為政府錯誤的能源政策然後造成我們停電然後停電之後的所有的這個生命財產損失都要由我們人民自己去負責這是極不負責任的一個政策希望這個部長還有台電要重新研議謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n229\t1130\t請翁曉玲委員質詢請郭部長\n23234\t51169\t委員好是部長也辛苦了齁那麼這個大家今天其實都非常關心台灣的電力能源配比的問題但是呢看起來這個部長您現在還是有很多的想法那麼同時呢這個您的想法可能能夠想可能跟民進黨政府的這個想法也不盡相同啊那麼所以呢對於這個電力的能源配比怎麼樣才是個最好的最適的規模啊我在想這個未來可能還有很多的要\n51789\t52029\t發言委員：曉玲\n73244\t82983\t其實在國外的這個MIT的教授他其實就做了一個各類發電方式的溫室氣體排放量的比較可以知道其實\n84872\t114053\t採訪問\n114673\t128063\t這個核電基本上還是最好的選擇雖然說民進黨政府基本上這個一直不願意去承認面對這個事實但我想請教部長是您知不知道在9月30號英國關閉了最後一座燃煤發電廠這個新聞您知道嗎\n132279\t138762\t這個我知道好 那麼英國他們在2015年的時候他們的當時保守黨政府就已經確立了2025年之前要關閉高碳排的燃煤發電廠可是在此同時我們看民進黨政府當時做了什麼決定當時他們修法希望能夠在2025年台灣要進入非核家園當時就修了電業法\n155931\t159074\t還好後來因為我們公投修了電業法把2025年非核家園的這個相關的規定給修掉了所以到現在我們還可以繼續再討論核電廠是不是可以繼續研議的這個議題不過就是無論如何但是看起來現在民黨政府好像也不打算要將核電廠研議部長您在您任內有可能\n184614\t207603\t可以做到希望能夠宣告核電廠營業的這個政策嗎我想經濟部的立場是這樣的所有的電我們都希望特別是綠電那您剛才講的這個部分我想我們有三個前提第一個就是說全民有共識全民當然有高度的共識然後第二個是它是安全的\n208393\t216716\t第三個是核廢料可以處理的這三個前提如果都能夠達到我們可以繼續往下來討論這三個前提其實全台灣都有共識而且我們都有高度的這個核能科技方面的素養接下來我們看下一頁這個我們知道其實現在美國歐美國家的科技業龍頭其實大家都已經紛紛的這個採取要使用核電而且甚至連這個買購買這個相關的電力能源契約都已經改採清楚的指示\n238322\t238842\t請問部長您知道我們停電每停一度電\n266657\t286910\t人民可以得到多少的補償這個我不知道您不知道那您想想看您覺得我們這樣子這個停電這個兩個小時我們可以得到多少的賠償我是不是請台電的總經理跟您報告趕快吧報告委員停電是一個小時大概幾個\n291045\t300143\t你也不清楚我告訴大家這停電一天一天24小時之內每一度電只賠1.33元\n302826\t326578\t我告訴大家我們現在台電所訂定的這個消費性用電服務契約裡面的規定是非常非常不合理這還是只是類似補償的概念喔因為我這段時間裡面我沒有用到電所以我的電費是扣除可是讓人有沒有想到我們停電所造成的人民的財產的損失甚至有些可能還會影響到他的身體健康帶呼吸器的人他沒有電的時候要怎麼辦\n328300\t345637\t這個問題是非常嚴重的但我要講的就是消費性用電服務契約裡面規定極不合理而且大家知道如果說是因為台電的用電不足或者說自己故障等等這些原因也是賠償的補償的一點點的錢\n348401\t361882\t這是極不合理變成說錯誤的能源政策所造成的缺點必須要全民來負擔那本期在這邊要給你們一個提示當然我們來看看德國你看德國是如何能夠真的走入變成是非核家園\n363291\t365972\t他能夠保證全國不停電至少不大規模的停電如果停電的話怎麼辦德國的這個相關規定地壓供電電網連接使用辦法裡面規定如果說因為電力公司故意或重大過測行為造成用電戶的受損害不是只有補償電費而已還包含要賠償相關損害費用的還要負損害賠償責任\n387902\t394707\t如果是因為不是基於故意或重大過失造成用電貨的財產損失他的賠償責任總而是定額賠償每戶最高可以請求5000歐元的賠償5000歐元是什麼概念?就可以賠償17萬5000塊台幣這是非常高的所以德國的電力公司有辦法做到這個程度可是台電有辦法嗎?\n413124\t436812\t我希望台電要研議相關的這個契約如何的修正改正能夠符合人民的期待我們不要平白無故的因為政府錯誤的能源政策然後造成我們停電然後停電之後的所有的這個生命財產損失都要由我們人民自己去負責這是極不負責任的一個政策希望這個部長還有台電要重新研議謝謝\n","txt":"請翁曉玲委員質詢請郭部長\n委員好是部長也辛苦了齁那麼這個大家今天其實都非常關心台灣的電力能源配比的問題但是呢看起來這個部長您現在還是有很多的想法那麼同時呢這個您的想法可能能夠想可能跟民進黨政府的這個想法也不盡相同啊那麼所以呢對於這個電力的能源配比怎麼樣才是個最好的最適的規模啊我在想這個未來可能還有很多的要\n發言委員：曉玲\n其實在國外的這個MIT的教授他其實就做了一個各類發電方式的溫室氣體排放量的比較可以知道其實\n採訪問\n這個核電基本上還是最好的選擇雖然說民進黨政府基本上這個一直不願意去承認面對這個事實但我想請教部長是您知不知道在9月30號英國關閉了最後一座燃煤發電廠這個新聞您知道嗎\n這個我知道好 那麼英國他們在2015年的時候他們的當時保守黨政府就已經確立了2025年之前要關閉高碳排的燃煤發電廠可是在此同時我們看民進黨政府當時做了什麼決定當時他們修法希望能夠在2025年台灣要進入非核家園當時就修了電業法\n還好後來因為我們公投修了電業法把2025年非核家園的這個相關的規定給修掉了所以到現在我們還可以繼續再討論核電廠是不是可以繼續研議的這個議題不過就是無論如何但是看起來現在民黨政府好像也不打算要將核電廠研議部長您在您任內有可能\n可以做到希望能夠宣告核電廠營業的這個政策嗎我想經濟部的立場是這樣的所有的電我們都希望特別是綠電那您剛才講的這個部分我想我們有三個前提第一個就是說全民有共識全民當然有高度的共識然後第二個是它是安全的\n第三個是核廢料可以處理的這三個前提如果都能夠達到我們可以繼續往下來討論這三個前提其實全台灣都有共識而且我們都有高度的這個核能科技方面的素養接下來我們看下一頁這個我們知道其實現在美國歐美國家的科技業龍頭其實大家都已經紛紛的這個採取要使用核電而且甚至連這個買購買這個相關的電力能源契約都已經改採清楚的指示\n請問部長您知道我們停電每停一度電\n人民可以得到多少的補償這個我不知道您不知道那您想想看您覺得我們這樣子這個停電這個兩個小時我們可以得到多少的賠償我是不是請台電的總經理跟您報告趕快吧報告委員停電是一個小時大概幾個\n你也不清楚我告訴大家這停電一天一天24小時之內每一度電只賠1.33元\n我告訴大家我們現在台電所訂定的這個消費性用電服務契約裡面的規定是非常非常不合理這還是只是類似補償的概念喔因為我這段時間裡面我沒有用到電所以我的電費是扣除可是讓人有沒有想到我們停電所造成的人民的財產的損失甚至有些可能還會影響到他的身體健康帶呼吸器的人他沒有電的時候要怎麼辦\n這個問題是非常嚴重的但我要講的就是消費性用電服務契約裡面規定極不合理而且大家知道如果說是因為台電的用電不足或者說自己故障等等這些原因也是賠償的補償的一點點的錢\n這是極不合理變成說錯誤的能源政策所造成的缺點必須要全民來負擔那本期在這邊要給你們一個提示當然我們來看看德國你看德國是如何能夠真的走入變成是非核家園\n他能夠保證全國不停電至少不大規模的停電如果停電的話怎麼辦德國的這個相關規定地壓供電電網連接使用辦法裡面規定如果說因為電力公司故意或重大過測行為造成用電戶的受損害不是只有補償電費而已還包含要賠償相關損害費用的還要負損害賠償責任\n如果是因為不是基於故意或重大過失造成用電貨的財產損失他的賠償責任總而是定額賠償每戶最高可以請求5000歐元的賠償5000歐元是什麼概念?就可以賠償17萬5000塊台幣這是非常高的所以德國的電力公司有辦法做到這個程度可是台電有辦法嗎?\n我希望台電要研議相關的這個契約如何的修正改正能夠符合人民的期待我們不要平白無故的因為政府錯誤的能源政策然後造成我們停電然後停電之後的所有的這個生命財產損失都要由我們人民自己去負責這是極不負責任的一個政策希望這個部長還有台電要重新研議謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.229 --> 00:01.130\n請翁曉玲委員質詢請郭部長\n\n00:23.234 --> 00:51.169\n委員好是部長也辛苦了齁那麼這個大家今天其實都非常關心台灣的電力能源配比的問題但是呢看起來這個部長您現在還是有很多的想法那麼同時呢這個您的想法可能能夠想可能跟民進黨政府的這個想法也不盡相同啊那麼所以呢對於這個電力的能源配比怎麼樣才是個最好的最適的規模啊我在想這個未來可能還有很多的要\n\n00:51.789 --> 00:52.029\n發言委員：曉玲\n\n01:13.244 --> 01:22.983\n其實在國外的這個MIT的教授他其實就做了一個各類發電方式的溫室氣體排放量的比較可以知道其實\n\n01:54.673 --> 02:08.063\n這個核電基本上還是最好的選擇雖然說民進黨政府基本上這個一直不願意去承認面對這個事實但我想請教部長是您知不知道在9月30號英國關閉了最後一座燃煤發電廠這個新聞您知道嗎\n\n02:12.279 --> 02:18.762\n這個我知道好那麼英國他們在2015年的時候他們的當時保守黨政府就已經確立了2025年之前要關閉高碳排的燃煤發電廠可是在此同時我們看民進黨政府當時做了什麼決定當時他們修法希望能夠在2025年台灣要進入非核家園當時就修了電業法\n\n02:35.931 --> 02:39.074\n還好後來因為我們公投修了電業法把2025年非核家園的這個相關的規定給修掉了所以到現在我們還可以繼續再討論核電廠是不是可以繼續研議的這個議題不過就是無論如何但是看起來現在民黨政府好像也不打算要將核電廠研議部長您在您任內有可能\n\n03:04.614 --> 03:27.603\n可以做到希望能夠宣告核電廠營業的這個政策嗎我想經濟部的立場是這樣的所有的電我們都希望特別是綠電那您剛才講的這個部分我想我們有三個前提第一個就是說全民有共識全民當然有高度的共識然後第二個是它是安全的\n\n03:28.393 --> 03:36.716\n第三個是核廢料可以處理的這三個前提如果都能夠達到我們可以繼續往下來討論這三個前提其實全台灣都有共識而且我們都有高度的這個核能科技方面的素養接下來我們看下一頁這個我們知道其實現在美國歐美國家的科技業龍頭其實大家都已經紛紛的這個採取要使用核電而且甚至連這個買購買這個相關的電力能源契約都已經改採清楚的指示\n\n03:58.322 --> 03:58.842\n請問部長您知道我們停電每停一度電\n\n04:26.657 --> 04:46.910\n人民可以得到多少的補償這個我不知道您不知道那您想想看您覺得我們這樣子這個停電這個兩個小時我們可以得到多少的賠償我是不是請台電的總經理跟您報告趕快吧報告委員停電是一個小時大概幾個\n\n04:51.045 --> 05:00.143\n你也不清楚我告訴大家這停電一天一天24小時之內每一度電只賠1.33元\n\n05:02.826 --> 05:26.578\n我告訴大家我們現在台電所訂定的這個消費性用電服務契約裡面的規定是非常非常不合理這還是只是類似補償的概念喔因為我這段時間裡面我沒有用到電所以我的電費是扣除可是讓人有沒有想到我們停電所造成的人民的財產的損失甚至有些可能還會影響到他的身體健康帶呼吸器的人他沒有電的時候要怎麼辦\n\n05:28.300 --> 05:45.637\n這個問題是非常嚴重的但我要講的就是消費性用電服務契約裡面規定極不合理而且大家知道如果說是因為台電的用電不足或者說自己故障等等這些原因也是賠償的補償的一點點的錢\n\n05:48.401 --> 06:01.882\n這是極不合理變成說錯誤的能源政策所造成的缺點必須要全民來負擔那本期在這邊要給你們一個提示當然我們來看看德國你看德國是如何能夠真的走入變成是非核家園\n\n06:03.291 --> 06:05.972\n他能夠保證全國不停電至少不大規模的停電如果停電的話怎麼辦德國的這個相關規定地壓供電電網連接使用辦法裡面規定如果說因為電力公司故意或重大過測行為造成用電戶的受損害不是只有補償電費而已還包含要賠償相關損害費用的還要負損害賠償責任\n\n06:27.902 --> 06:34.707\n如果是因為不是基於故意或重大過失造成用電貨的財產損失他的賠償責任總而是定額賠償每戶最高可以請求5000歐元的賠償5000歐元是什麼概念?就可以賠償17萬5000塊台幣這是非常高的所以德國的電力公司有辦法做到這個程度可是台電有辦法嗎?\n\n06:53.124 --> 07:16.812\n我希望台電要研議相關的這個契約如何的修正改正能夠符合人民的期待我們不要平白無故的因為政府錯誤的能源政策然後造成我們停電然後停電之後的所有的這個生命財產損失都要由我們人民自己去負責這是極不負責任的一個政策希望這個部長還有台電要重新研議謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.229,"end":1.13,"text":"請翁曉玲委員質詢請郭部長"},{"start":23.234,"end":51.169,"text":"委員好是部長也辛苦了齁那麼這個大家今天其實都非常關心台灣的電力能源配比的問題但是呢看起來這個部長您現在還是有很多的想法那麼同時呢這個您的想法可能能夠想可能跟民進黨政府的這個想法也不盡相同啊那麼所以呢對於這個電力的能源配比怎麼樣才是個最好的最適的規模啊我在想這個未來可能還有很多的要"},{"start":51.789,"end":52.029,"text":"發言委員：曉玲"},{"start":73.244,"end":82.983,"text":"其實在國外的這個MIT的教授他其實就做了一個各類發電方式的溫室氣體排放量的比較可以知道其實"},{"start":84.872,"end":114.053,"text":"採訪問"},{"start":114.673,"end":128.063,"text":"這個核電基本上還是最好的選擇雖然說民進黨政府基本上這個一直不願意去承認面對這個事實但我想請教部長是您知不知道在9月30號英國關閉了最後一座燃煤發電廠這個新聞您知道嗎"},{"start":132.279,"end":138.762,"text":"這個我知道好 那麼英國他們在2015年的時候他們的當時保守黨政府就已經確立了2025年之前要關閉高碳排的燃煤發電廠可是在此同時我們看民進黨政府當時做了什麼決定當時他們修法希望能夠在2025年台灣要進入非核家園當時就修了電業法"},{"start":155.931,"end":159.074,"text":"還好後來因為我們公投修了電業法把2025年非核家園的這個相關的規定給修掉了所以到現在我們還可以繼續再討論核電廠是不是可以繼續研議的這個議題不過就是無論如何但是看起來現在民黨政府好像也不打算要將核電廠研議部長您在您任內有可能"},{"start":184.614,"end":207.603,"text":"可以做到希望能夠宣告核電廠營業的這個政策嗎我想經濟部的立場是這樣的所有的電我們都希望特別是綠電那您剛才講的這個部分我想我們有三個前提第一個就是說全民有共識全民當然有高度的共識然後第二個是它是安全的"},{"start":208.393,"end":216.716,"text":"第三個是核廢料可以處理的這三個前提如果都能夠達到我們可以繼續往下來討論這三個前提其實全台灣都有共識而且我們都有高度的這個核能科技方面的素養接下來我們看下一頁這個我們知道其實現在美國歐美國家的科技業龍頭其實大家都已經紛紛的這個採取要使用核電而且甚至連這個買購買這個相關的電力能源契約都已經改採清楚的指示"},{"start":238.322,"end":238.842,"text":"請問部長您知道我們停電每停一度電"},{"start":266.657,"end":286.91,"text":"人民可以得到多少的補償這個我不知道您不知道那您想想看您覺得我們這樣子這個停電這個兩個小時我們可以得到多少的賠償我是不是請台電的總經理跟您報告趕快吧報告委員停電是一個小時大概幾個"},{"start":291.045,"end":300.143,"text":"你也不清楚我告訴大家這停電一天一天24小時之內每一度電只賠1.33元"},{"start":302.826,"end":326.578,"text":"我告訴大家我們現在台電所訂定的這個消費性用電服務契約裡面的規定是非常非常不合理這還是只是類似補償的概念喔因為我這段時間裡面我沒有用到電所以我的電費是扣除可是讓人有沒有想到我們停電所造成的人民的財產的損失甚至有些可能還會影響到他的身體健康帶呼吸器的人他沒有電的時候要怎麼辦"},{"start":328.3,"end":345.637,"text":"這個問題是非常嚴重的但我要講的就是消費性用電服務契約裡面規定極不合理而且大家知道如果說是因為台電的用電不足或者說自己故障等等這些原因也是賠償的補償的一點點的錢"},{"start":348.401,"end":361.882,"text":"這是極不合理變成說錯誤的能源政策所造成的缺點必須要全民來負擔那本期在這邊要給你們一個提示當然我們來看看德國你看德國是如何能夠真的走入變成是非核家園"},{"start":363.291,"end":365.972,"text":"他能夠保證全國不停電至少不大規模的停電如果停電的話怎麼辦德國的這個相關規定地壓供電電網連接使用辦法裡面規定如果說因為電力公司故意或重大過測行為造成用電戶的受損害不是只有補償電費而已還包含要賠償相關損害費用的還要負損害賠償責任"},{"start":387.902,"end":394.707,"text":"如果是因為不是基於故意或重大過失造成用電貨的財產損失他的賠償責任總而是定額賠償每戶最高可以請求5000歐元的賠償5000歐元是什麼概念?就可以賠償17萬5000塊台幣這是非常高的所以德國的電力公司有辦法做到這個程度可是台電有辦法嗎?"},{"start":413.124,"end":436.812,"text":"我希望台電要研議相關的這個契約如何的修正改正能夠符合人民的期待我們不要平白無故的因為政府錯誤的能源政策然後造成我們停電然後停電之後的所有的這個生命財產損失都要由我們人民自己去負責這是極不負責任的一個政策希望這個部長還有台電要重新研議謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":5,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"14:16:31 - 14:23:50","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。）","id":155629,"gazette":{"lineno":1484,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（14時16分）召委辛苦了，今天從早上主持到現在。接下來有請部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：部長也辛苦了。大家今天都非常關心臺灣電力能源配比的問題，但看起來您現在還是有很多的想法，同時您的構想可能跟民進黨政府的想法也不盡相同。對於電力的能源配比，怎麼樣才是最好、最適規模，我想在未來可能還有很多要討論的地方。但是無論如何，就民進黨政府這些年來所推動的能源配比，有一個事實我想應該毋庸置疑，就是我們的發電到現在為止還是高度仰賴火力發電，而火力發電最重要的燃料就是化石燃料。國外MIT的教授就做了各類發電方式的溫室氣體排放量比較，可以知道，其實用燃煤的溫室氣體碳排放量遠高於核能，差不多是68倍，而天然氣是核能的40倍，其他像光電等等同樣也是核電的大概2至4倍。所以就溫室氣體排放量的角度來看，核電基本上還是最好的選擇，雖然民進黨政府基本上一直不願意承認、面對這個事實。","我想請教部長，9月30日英國關閉了最後一座燃煤發電廠，這個新聞您知道嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個我知道。"],["翁委員曉玲：英國在2015年，當時他們的保守黨政府就已經確立了2025年之前要關閉高碳排的燃煤發電廠。可是在此同時，我們看民進黨政府當時做了什麼決定？當時他們修法，希望臺灣能夠在2025年進入非核家園，當時就修了電業法。還好後來因為我們公投，修了電業法，把2025年非核家園的相關規定給修掉了，所以到現在我們還可以再討論核電廠是不是繼續延役的議題。無論如何，看起來現在民進黨政府好像也不打算將核電廠延役。部長，在您任內有可能做到，希望能夠宣告核電廠延役的這個政策嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：經濟部的立場是這樣子，所有的電我們都希望，特別是綠電，您剛剛講的這部分，我想我們有三個前提，第一個就是全民有共識。"],["翁委員曉玲：全民當然有高度的共識。"],["郭部長智輝：是，然後第二個它是安全的，第三個是核廢料是可以處理的，這三個前提如果都能夠達到，我們可以繼續往下討論。"],["翁委員曉玲：這三個前提其實全臺灣都有共識，而且我們都有高度的核能科技方面的素養。","我們知道其實現在歐美國家的科技龍頭大家都已經紛紛宣布要使用核電，而且甚至連購買相關的電力能源契約都已經清楚指明要採購的就是核電，我希望臺灣的經濟部能夠知道這個事情。","接下來我要講的就是，其實臺灣能源不足的問題已經是一個事實，而在能源不足的情況之下，變成人民要去承受隨時隨地都有可能會缺電、會停電的問題。我先請問部長，您知道我們每停一度電人民可以得到多少補償嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個我不知道。"],["翁委員曉玲：您不知道？那您想想看，您覺得我們停電兩個小時可以得到多少賠償？"],["郭部長智輝：我是不是請台電總經理來跟您報告？"],["翁委員曉玲：好，趕快吧！"],["王總經理耀庭：報告委員，停電一個小時大概……"],["翁委員曉玲：你也不清楚？好，我告訴大家，停電一天24小時之內，每一度電只賠1.33元。我告訴大家，現在台電所訂定的消費性用電服務契約裡面的規定是非常、非常不合理的！這還只是類似補償的概念喔！因為我這段時間裡面沒有用到電，所以我的電費扣除，可是我們應該想到停電所造成的人民財產損失，甚至有些可能還會影響到他的身體健康，戴呼吸器的人，沒有電的時候要怎麼辦？這個問題是非常嚴重的！我要講的就是，消費性用電服務契約裡面的規定極不合理，而且大家知道，如果是因為台電的供電不足或者是故障等等這些原因，也只是補償一點點的錢，這是極不合理的！變成錯誤的能源政策所造成的缺電必須要全民來負擔。","本席在這邊要給你們一個提示，我們來看看德國，人家德國是如何能夠真的變成非核家園？它能夠保證全國不停電，至少不大規模地停電，如果停電的話怎麼辦？德國的「低壓供電電網連結使用辦法」規定，如果電力公司因故意或重大過失之行為造成用電戶受損害，不是只有補償電費而已喔，還包含要負損害賠償責任；如果不是出於故意或重大過失造成用電戶的財產損失，賠償責任總額是定額賠償，每戶最高可以請求5,000歐元的賠償，5,000歐元是什麼概念？就是可以賠償17萬5,000塊臺幣。這是非常高的！所以人家德國的電力公司有辦法做到這個程度，可是台電有辦法嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：有關委員的指教，我們會檢討。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，我希望台電要研議相關的契約如何修正、改正，以符合人民的期待。我們不要平白無故因為政府錯誤的能源政策而造成停電，停電之後所有的生命財產損失都要由人民自己負責，這是極不負責任的政策，希望部長還有台電要重新研議，謝謝。"],["主席：請牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","陳超明","郭國文","賴士葆","萬美玲","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","黃國昌","王育敏","陳昭姿","高金素梅","廖偉翔","黃健豪","葉元之","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","涂權吉","何欣純","徐富癸","徐欣瑩","林思銘","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進\n行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138401_00017"}}}