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\"估\", \"start\": 601.756, \"end\": 601.856, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 601.856, \"end\": 602.016, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 602.016, \"end\": 602.216, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 602.216, \"end\": 602.336, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 602.336, \"end\": 602.396, \"score\": 0.058}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 602.396, \"end\": 602.616, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 602.616, \"end\": 602.716, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 602.716, \"end\": 602.796, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 602.796, \"end\": 602.816, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 602.816, \"end\": 602.977, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 602.977, \"end\": 602.997, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,625 --> 00:00:04,645\n楊瓊發言\n\n2\n00:00:14,977 --> 00:00:40,060\n部長好來自台中也經過台中民意的一個洗禮過所以你更了解我們全國的路網那所以我們實質來討論我們自己的家台中2019年的時候呢那麼交通部長林佳龍部長當時他也非常的關心所以他公開的承諾也就是連結苗栗、三義、高蘭、台中、澳栗\n\n3\n00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:41,621\n實驗了三個部長都去看\n\n4\n00:01:02,842 --> 00:01:03,062\n請壓下去時間暫停\n\n5\n00:01:28,438 --> 00:01:46,071\n這個對地方的觀光來講很重要進度的部分我請台鐵來跟您報告好請跟委員報告現在我們正在擬定董事長也跟我去看過對我看過三次對我們就依據先前我們去會刊的一個方式我們現在在報部程序\n\n6\n00:01:46,411 --> 00:01:47,111\n臺中地區大眾捷運系統整體入網的評估計畫\n\n7\n00:02:12,544 --> 00:02:17,408\n重德豐原縣經過很多人潮密集還有學區整體效應非常大請問部長我們什麼時候要核定補助地方的經費你們什麼時候啟動可行性評估\n\n8\n00:02:36,204 --> 00:03:04,112\n那第三個議題也就是我一定要充分給你建議一定要延伸到風源隔壁就是神崗對我們社靠交流都一定要延伸到神崗來請做說明這三點好跟委員報告這條線的這個可行性研究的這個核定對我們來講經費的部分我們有跟臺中市政府那邊有溝通過他們目前的想法是比較高但是我們因為有一定的計算公式依我們的計算公式大概是1500萬左右\n\n9\n00:03:06,635 --> 00:03:27,851\n一千五百萬左右那中央補助的比例差不多一千一百萬左右但是臺中市政府跟我們說現在發包不太容易那我們會協助他來做發包可行性研究的部分我們會趕快來做一定要跟地方好好溝通趕快去把它完成以完成為目標我們這兩天有跟臺中市政府的相關單位有去溝通了那我們要這個經費呢你暫定了嗎您是說這個可言的部分嗎可言已經說了\n\n10\n00:03:34,807 --> 00:03:59,161\n那預算的部分要等他可行可言出來我們就依照要高額的補助我們台中因為台中不斷那接下來一個議題崇德這個豐原縣要延伸到這個神崗因為他在隔壁而已這個您積極在爭取因為他交流到對我覺得這個部分可以在可言的過程當中我們跟台中市政府來溝通一定要納入把這個部分把它納入來討論\n\n11\n00:03:59,761 --> 00:04:00,021\n臺中山海環線卡關10年\n\n12\n00:04:20,475 --> 00:04:38,646\n在交通委員會本席也跟你的次長討論過也就是我們修正為三個指向三個指向在海線以及山線的部分那麼我們現在臺中市政府積極在研議積極在修正依照你們的指示所以我們盡快會送上來送上來也承諾要盡快去審核核定我們的目標也就是趕快執行那接下來就是甲貨線\n\n13\n00:04:48,272 --> 00:04:48,713\n假貨線目前的進度\n\n14\n00:04:55,314 --> 00:05:17,070\n三個指向其他兩個指向您應該都很清楚在進度上您都沒有問題假後線是一個新增的路線那新增的路線有兩個可能性就是第一個可能性由台鐵他們去研議有沒有這個需求性有需求性或許台鐵可以做那第二個可能性其實要由地方政府來研議如果地方政府他們研議有可能性可以由地方來贏\n\n15\n00:05:18,291 --> 00:05:21,232\n議員您在要求的部分我們有理解到您的要求理解到是要不要積極去推動\n\n16\n00:05:42,874 --> 00:06:07,487\n我剛剛有說過因為它過去不是一條原本就有的鐵道它是新增的鐵道那新增的鐵道我們會由台鐵去研議有沒有這個需求有這個需求我們大概會做不是如此的回答本席不同意因為這已經是由行政院合併將這一條綠線拆成三項指向所以這是既定政策務必要去執行本席告訴你\n\n17\n00:06:08,135 --> 00:06:32,231\n我們也希望能夠往前推動啦其實當時我在擔任議員的時候趕快去追蹤你自己本身也一直講了很多次積極追蹤進度一定要推動好不好認同嗎進度的部分我來了解沒問題最後一個議題也就是我們國道四號清水道風源段我們當時2001年的時候你後風交流道設置西入東出\n\n18\n00:06:33,260 --> 00:06:49,057\n哪有一個建設只做一半,你的東路西出沒有害了我們整個,我們每一天都在那邊塞車你中央政府所做的,到現在人民在痛苦\n\n19\n00:06:49,878 --> 00:07:05,066\n所以本席具體建議東立西出的閘道它造成後裏豐原往潭子北屯我們的北屯潭柱到奧立這一些都在這邊出路交流量人口數急劇的增加\n\n20\n00:07:06,207 --> 00:07:06,547\n李慧琼議員\n\n21\n00:07:34,764 --> 00:07:48,072\n10年前那個地方的交通量可能還沒有到達那個程度那現在10年後確實那個地方開始有在塞車了所以有這樣的需求我們來協助看地方政府的部分你的可行性評估你趕快協助\n\n22\n00:07:49,827 --> 00:08:09,002\n你趕快協助我們務必要做你已經說了人口增加到這個地方沒有問題委員但是這個必須要地方政府來提出我們地方政府提出你給我撥走那個可行性評估當然講清楚市府要提出我們地方政府提出可行性評估你們來補助你同意補助嗎我們趕快會提出可行性評估的部分由地方自求\n\n23\n00:08:17,845 --> 00:08:30,682\n這是你中央你中央當時只有做半套啊那頂多是200萬左右的經費啊你幫我導著你當時你一定有預期效果\n\n24\n00:08:32,150 --> 00:08:39,715\n你只有做半套當然是你的責任來可行性評估我們台中市政府等一下等一下可行性評估趕快提出來因為這是面臨目前我們社會所需好不好我們市府提出你來補助好不好部長等一下我們也請你回來後面的規劃設計交通部會來協助但是過去可能沒有的案例沒有你要照程序可行性評估對不對\n\n25\n00:09:01,738 --> 00:09:22,467\n部長不是錢的問題啊對啊錢是問題啊我也很想協助對但是要看他們的規定上可不可以這是第一個當然可以因為你做笨套地方政府的部分我們盡量來協助我們地方政府來提出你來補助好不好因為目前需要這個方式嘛部長你請你回答我\n\n26\n00:09:23,362 --> 00:09:42,108\n你請你回答我中央政府只做雜道做一邊導致目前我們這樣子的擁擠沒有理由不解決我們所以本期具體建議可行性評估由台中市政府提出你們來補助我們趕快研擬不要再拖頭了我一年要增加多少人口\n\n27\n00:09:43,666 --> 00:10:00,615\n好我們來討論有沒有這樣的可能性不是討論可能性你要答應我我希望朝這個方向好朝這個方向所以要趕快來努力要不然你做半套導致我們擠得這麼嚴重尤其我們的北端淡柱這一個區塊風源是人口數急劇增加最多\n\n28\n00:10:01,015 --> 00:10:02,997\n臺商市政府提出可行性評估的方案上來你來補助好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4625\t4645\t楊瓊發言\n14977\t40060\t部長好來自台中也經過台中民意的一個洗禮過所以你更了解我們全國的路網那所以我們實質來討論我們自己的家台中2019年的時候呢那麼交通部長林佳龍部長當時他也非常的關心所以他公開的承諾也就是連結苗栗、三義、高蘭、台中、澳栗\n40800\t41621\t實驗了三個部長都去看\n62842\t63062\t請壓下去 時間暫停\n88438\t106071\t這個對地方的觀光來講很重要進度的部分我請台鐵來跟您報告好請跟委員報告現在我們正在擬定董事長也跟我去看過對我看過三次對我們就依據先前我們去會刊的一個方式我們現在在報部程序\n106411\t107111\t臺中地區大眾捷運系統整體入網的評估計畫\n132544\t137408\t重德豐原縣經過很多人潮密集還有學區整體效應非常大請問部長我們什麼時候要核定補助地方的經費你們什麼時候啟動可行性評估\n156204\t184112\t那第三個議題也就是我一定要充分給你建議一定要延伸到風源隔壁就是神崗對我們社靠交流都一定要延伸到神崗來請做說明這三點好跟委員報告這條線的這個可行性研究的這個核定對我們來講經費的部分我們有跟臺中市政府那邊有溝通過他們目前的想法是比較高但是我們因為有一定的計算公式依我們的計算公式大概是1500萬左右\n186635\t207851\t一千五百萬左右那中央補助的比例差不多一千一百萬左右但是臺中市政府跟我們說現在發包不太容易那我們會協助他來做發包可行性研究的部分我們會趕快來做一定要跟地方好好溝通趕快去把它完成以完成為目標我們這兩天有跟臺中市政府的相關單位有去溝通了那我們要這個經費呢你暫定了嗎您是說這個可言的部分嗎可言已經說了\n214807\t239161\t那預算的部分要等他可行可言出來我們就依照要高額的補助我們台中因為台中不斷那接下來一個議題崇德這個豐原縣要延伸到這個神崗因為他在隔壁而已這個您積極在爭取因為他交流到對我覺得這個部分可以在可言的過程當中我們跟台中市政府來溝通一定要納入把這個部分把它納入來討論\n239761\t240021\t臺中山海環線卡關10年\n260475\t278646\t在交通委員會本席也跟你的次長討論過也就是我們修正為三個指向三個指向在海線以及山線的部分那麼我們現在臺中市政府積極在研議積極在修正依照你們的指示所以我們盡快會送上來送上來也承諾要盡快去審核核定我們的目標也就是趕快執行那接下來就是甲貨線\n288272\t288713\t假貨線目前的進度\n295314\t317070\t三個指向其他兩個指向您應該都很清楚在進度上您都沒有問題假後線是一個新增的路線那新增的路線有兩個可能性就是第一個可能性由台鐵他們去研議有沒有這個需求性有需求性或許台鐵可以做那第二個可能性其實要由地方政府來研議如果地方政府他們研議有可能性可以由地方來贏\n318291\t321232\t議員您在要求的部分我們有理解到您的要求理解到是要不要積極去推動\n342874\t367487\t我剛剛有說過因為它過去不是一條原本就有的鐵道它是新增的鐵道那新增的鐵道我們會由台鐵去研議有沒有這個需求有這個需求我們大概會做不是如此的回答本席不同意因為這已經是由行政院合併將這一條綠線拆成三項指向所以這是既定政策務必要去執行本席告訴你\n368135\t392231\t我們也希望能夠往前推動啦其實當時我在擔任議員的時候趕快去追蹤你自己本身也一直講了很多次積極追蹤進度一定要推動好不好認同嗎進度的部分我來了解沒問題最後一個議題也就是我們國道四號清水道風源段我們當時2001年的時候你後風交流道設置西入東出\n393260\t409057\t哪有一個建設只做一半,你的東路西出沒有害了我們整個,我們每一天都在那邊塞車你中央政府所做的,到現在人民在痛苦\n409878\t425066\t所以本席具體建議東立西出的閘道它造成後裏豐原往潭子北屯我們的北屯潭柱到奧立這一些都在這邊出路交流量人口數急劇的增加\n426207\t426547\t李慧琼議員\n454764\t468072\t10年前那個地方的交通量可能還沒有到達那個程度那現在10年後確實那個地方開始有在塞車了所以有這樣的需求我們來協助看地方政府的部分你的可行性評估你趕快協助\n469827\t489002\t你趕快協助我們務必要做你已經說了人口增加到這個地方沒有問題委員但是這個必須要地方政府來提出我們地方政府提出你給我撥走那個可行性評估當然講清楚市府要提出我們地方政府提出可行性評估你們來補助你同意補助嗎我們趕快會提出可行性評估的部分由地方自求\n497845\t510682\t這是你中央你中央當時只有做半套啊那頂多是200萬左右的經費啊你幫我導著你當時你一定有預期效果\n512150\t519715\t你只有做半套當然是你的責任來可行性評估我們台中市政府等一下等一下可行性評估趕快提出來因為這是面臨目前我們社會所需好不好我們市府提出你來補助好不好部長等一下我們也請你回來後面的規劃設計交通部會來協助但是過去可能沒有的案例沒有你要照程序可行性評估對不對\n541738\t562467\t部長不是錢的問題啊對啊錢是問題啊我也很想協助對但是要看他們的規定上可不可以這是第一個當然可以因為你做笨套地方政府的部分我們盡量來協助我們地方政府來提出你來補助好不好因為目前需要這個方式嘛部長你請你回答我\n563362\t582108\t你請你回答我中央政府只做雜道做一邊導致目前我們這樣子的擁擠沒有理由不解決我們所以本期具體建議可行性評估由台中市政府提出你們來補助我們趕快研擬不要再拖頭了我一年要增加多少人口\n583666\t600615\t好 我們來討論有沒有這樣的可能性不是討論可能性 你要答應我我希望朝這個方向好 朝這個方向所以要趕快來努力要不然你做半套導致我們擠得這麼嚴重尤其我們的北端淡柱這一個區塊風源是人口數急劇增加最多\n601015\t602997\t臺商市政府提出可行性評估的方案上來你來補助好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"楊瓊發言\n部長好來自台中也經過台中民意的一個洗禮過所以你更了解我們全國的路網那所以我們實質來討論我們自己的家台中2019年的時候呢那麼交通部長林佳龍部長當時他也非常的關心所以他公開的承諾也就是連結苗栗、三義、高蘭、台中、澳栗\n實驗了三個部長都去看\n請壓下去 時間暫停\n這個對地方的觀光來講很重要進度的部分我請台鐵來跟您報告好請跟委員報告現在我們正在擬定董事長也跟我去看過對我看過三次對我們就依據先前我們去會刊的一個方式我們現在在報部程序\n臺中地區大眾捷運系統整體入網的評估計畫\n重德豐原縣經過很多人潮密集還有學區整體效應非常大請問部長我們什麼時候要核定補助地方的經費你們什麼時候啟動可行性評估\n那第三個議題也就是我一定要充分給你建議一定要延伸到風源隔壁就是神崗對我們社靠交流都一定要延伸到神崗來請做說明這三點好跟委員報告這條線的這個可行性研究的這個核定對我們來講經費的部分我們有跟臺中市政府那邊有溝通過他們目前的想法是比較高但是我們因為有一定的計算公式依我們的計算公式大概是1500萬左右\n一千五百萬左右那中央補助的比例差不多一千一百萬左右但是臺中市政府跟我們說現在發包不太容易那我們會協助他來做發包可行性研究的部分我們會趕快來做一定要跟地方好好溝通趕快去把它完成以完成為目標我們這兩天有跟臺中市政府的相關單位有去溝通了那我們要這個經費呢你暫定了嗎您是說這個可言的部分嗎可言已經說了\n那預算的部分要等他可行可言出來我們就依照要高額的補助我們台中因為台中不斷那接下來一個議題崇德這個豐原縣要延伸到這個神崗因為他在隔壁而已這個您積極在爭取因為他交流到對我覺得這個部分可以在可言的過程當中我們跟台中市政府來溝通一定要納入把這個部分把它納入來討論\n臺中山海環線卡關10年\n在交通委員會本席也跟你的次長討論過也就是我們修正為三個指向三個指向在海線以及山線的部分那麼我們現在臺中市政府積極在研議積極在修正依照你們的指示所以我們盡快會送上來送上來也承諾要盡快去審核核定我們的目標也就是趕快執行那接下來就是甲貨線\n假貨線目前的進度\n三個指向其他兩個指向您應該都很清楚在進度上您都沒有問題假後線是一個新增的路線那新增的路線有兩個可能性就是第一個可能性由台鐵他們去研議有沒有這個需求性有需求性或許台鐵可以做那第二個可能性其實要由地方政府來研議如果地方政府他們研議有可能性可以由地方來贏\n議員您在要求的部分我們有理解到您的要求理解到是要不要積極去推動\n我剛剛有說過因為它過去不是一條原本就有的鐵道它是新增的鐵道那新增的鐵道我們會由台鐵去研議有沒有這個需求有這個需求我們大概會做不是如此的回答本席不同意因為這已經是由行政院合併將這一條綠線拆成三項指向所以這是既定政策務必要去執行本席告訴你\n我們也希望能夠往前推動啦其實當時我在擔任議員的時候趕快去追蹤你自己本身也一直講了很多次積極追蹤進度一定要推動好不好認同嗎進度的部分我來了解沒問題最後一個議題也就是我們國道四號清水道風源段我們當時2001年的時候你後風交流道設置西入東出\n哪有一個建設只做一半,你的東路西出沒有害了我們整個,我們每一天都在那邊塞車你中央政府所做的,到現在人民在痛苦\n所以本席具體建議東立西出的閘道它造成後裏豐原往潭子北屯我們的北屯潭柱到奧立這一些都在這邊出路交流量人口數急劇的增加\n李慧琼議員\n10年前那個地方的交通量可能還沒有到達那個程度那現在10年後確實那個地方開始有在塞車了所以有這樣的需求我們來協助看地方政府的部分你的可行性評估你趕快協助\n你趕快協助我們務必要做你已經說了人口增加到這個地方沒有問題委員但是這個必須要地方政府來提出我們地方政府提出你給我撥走那個可行性評估當然講清楚市府要提出我們地方政府提出可行性評估你們來補助你同意補助嗎我們趕快會提出可行性評估的部分由地方自求\n這是你中央你中央當時只有做半套啊那頂多是200萬左右的經費啊你幫我導著你當時你一定有預期效果\n你只有做半套當然是你的責任來可行性評估我們台中市政府等一下等一下可行性評估趕快提出來因為這是面臨目前我們社會所需好不好我們市府提出你來補助好不好部長等一下我們也請你回來後面的規劃設計交通部會來協助但是過去可能沒有的案例沒有你要照程序可行性評估對不對\n部長不是錢的問題啊對啊錢是問題啊我也很想協助對但是要看他們的規定上可不可以這是第一個當然可以因為你做笨套地方政府的部分我們盡量來協助我們地方政府來提出你來補助好不好因為目前需要這個方式嘛部長你請你回答我\n你請你回答我中央政府只做雜道做一邊導致目前我們這樣子的擁擠沒有理由不解決我們所以本期具體建議可行性評估由台中市政府提出你們來補助我們趕快研擬不要再拖頭了我一年要增加多少人口\n好 我們來討論有沒有這樣的可能性不是討論可能性 你要答應我我希望朝這個方向好 朝這個方向所以要趕快來努力要不然你做半套導致我們擠得這麼嚴重尤其我們的北端淡柱這一個區塊風源是人口數急劇增加最多\n臺商市政府提出可行性評估的方案上來你來補助好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.625 --> 00:04.645\n楊瓊發言\n\n00:14.977 --> 00:40.060\n部長好來自台中也經過台中民意的一個洗禮過所以你更了解我們全國的路網那所以我們實質來討論我們自己的家台中2019年的時候呢那麼交通部長林佳龍部長當時他也非常的關心所以他公開的承諾也就是連結苗栗、三義、高蘭、台中、澳栗\n\n00:40.800 --> 00:41.621\n實驗了三個部長都去看\n\n01:02.842 --> 01:03.062\n請壓下去時間暫停\n\n01:28.438 --> 01:46.071\n這個對地方的觀光來講很重要進度的部分我請台鐵來跟您報告好請跟委員報告現在我們正在擬定董事長也跟我去看過對我看過三次對我們就依據先前我們去會刊的一個方式我們現在在報部程序\n\n01:46.411 --> 01:47.111\n臺中地區大眾捷運系統整體入網的評估計畫\n\n02:12.544 --> 02:17.408\n重德豐原縣經過很多人潮密集還有學區整體效應非常大請問部長我們什麼時候要核定補助地方的經費你們什麼時候啟動可行性評估\n\n02:36.204 --> 03:04.112\n那第三個議題也就是我一定要充分給你建議一定要延伸到風源隔壁就是神崗對我們社靠交流都一定要延伸到神崗來請做說明這三點好跟委員報告這條線的這個可行性研究的這個核定對我們來講經費的部分我們有跟臺中市政府那邊有溝通過他們目前的想法是比較高但是我們因為有一定的計算公式依我們的計算公式大概是1500萬左右\n\n03:06.635 --> 03:27.851\n一千五百萬左右那中央補助的比例差不多一千一百萬左右但是臺中市政府跟我們說現在發包不太容易那我們會協助他來做發包可行性研究的部分我們會趕快來做一定要跟地方好好溝通趕快去把它完成以完成為目標我們這兩天有跟臺中市政府的相關單位有去溝通了那我們要這個經費呢你暫定了嗎您是說這個可言的部分嗎可言已經說了\n\n03:34.807 --> 03:59.161\n那預算的部分要等他可行可言出來我們就依照要高額的補助我們台中因為台中不斷那接下來一個議題崇德這個豐原縣要延伸到這個神崗因為他在隔壁而已這個您積極在爭取因為他交流到對我覺得這個部分可以在可言的過程當中我們跟台中市政府來溝通一定要納入把這個部分把它納入來討論\n\n03:59.761 --> 04:00.021\n臺中山海環線卡關10年\n\n04:20.475 --> 04:38.646\n在交通委員會本席也跟你的次長討論過也就是我們修正為三個指向三個指向在海線以及山線的部分那麼我們現在臺中市政府積極在研議積極在修正依照你們的指示所以我們盡快會送上來送上來也承諾要盡快去審核核定我們的目標也就是趕快執行那接下來就是甲貨線\n\n04:48.272 --> 04:48.713\n假貨線目前的進度\n\n04:55.314 --> 05:17.070\n三個指向其他兩個指向您應該都很清楚在進度上您都沒有問題假後線是一個新增的路線那新增的路線有兩個可能性就是第一個可能性由台鐵他們去研議有沒有這個需求性有需求性或許台鐵可以做那第二個可能性其實要由地方政府來研議如果地方政府他們研議有可能性可以由地方來贏\n\n05:18.291 --> 05:21.232\n議員您在要求的部分我們有理解到您的要求理解到是要不要積極去推動\n\n05:42.874 --> 06:07.487\n我剛剛有說過因為它過去不是一條原本就有的鐵道它是新增的鐵道那新增的鐵道我們會由台鐵去研議有沒有這個需求有這個需求我們大概會做不是如此的回答本席不同意因為這已經是由行政院合併將這一條綠線拆成三項指向所以這是既定政策務必要去執行本席告訴你\n\n06:08.135 --> 06:32.231\n我們也希望能夠往前推動啦其實當時我在擔任議員的時候趕快去追蹤你自己本身也一直講了很多次積極追蹤進度一定要推動好不好認同嗎進度的部分我來了解沒問題最後一個議題也就是我們國道四號清水道風源段我們當時2001年的時候你後風交流道設置西入東出\n\n06:33.260 --> 06:49.057\n哪有一個建設只做一半,你的東路西出沒有害了我們整個,我們每一天都在那邊塞車你中央政府所做的,到現在人民在痛苦\n\n06:49.878 --> 07:05.066\n所以本席具體建議東立西出的閘道它造成後裏豐原往潭子北屯我們的北屯潭柱到奧立這一些都在這邊出路交流量人口數急劇的增加\n\n07:06.207 --> 07:06.547\n李慧琼議員\n\n07:34.764 --> 07:48.072\n10年前那個地方的交通量可能還沒有到達那個程度那現在10年後確實那個地方開始有在塞車了所以有這樣的需求我們來協助看地方政府的部分你的可行性評估你趕快協助\n\n07:49.827 --> 08:09.002\n你趕快協助我們務必要做你已經說了人口增加到這個地方沒有問題委員但是這個必須要地方政府來提出我們地方政府提出你給我撥走那個可行性評估當然講清楚市府要提出我們地方政府提出可行性評估你們來補助你同意補助嗎我們趕快會提出可行性評估的部分由地方自求\n\n08:17.845 --> 08:30.682\n這是你中央你中央當時只有做半套啊那頂多是200萬左右的經費啊你幫我導著你當時你一定有預期效果\n\n08:32.150 --> 08:39.715\n你只有做半套當然是你的責任來可行性評估我們台中市政府等一下等一下可行性評估趕快提出來因為這是面臨目前我們社會所需好不好我們市府提出你來補助好不好部長等一下我們也請你回來後面的規劃設計交通部會來協助但是過去可能沒有的案例沒有你要照程序可行性評估對不對\n\n09:01.738 --> 09:22.467\n部長不是錢的問題啊對啊錢是問題啊我也很想協助對但是要看他們的規定上可不可以這是第一個當然可以因為你做笨套地方政府的部分我們盡量來協助我們地方政府來提出你來補助好不好因為目前需要這個方式嘛部長你請你回答我\n\n09:23.362 --> 09:42.108\n你請你回答我中央政府只做雜道做一邊導致目前我們這樣子的擁擠沒有理由不解決我們所以本期具體建議可行性評估由台中市政府提出你們來補助我們趕快研擬不要再拖頭了我一年要增加多少人口\n\n09:43.666 --> 10:00.615\n好我們來討論有沒有這樣的可能性不是討論可能性你要答應我我希望朝這個方向好朝這個方向所以要趕快來努力要不然你做半套導致我們擠得這麼嚴重尤其我們的北端淡柱這一個區塊風源是人口數急劇增加最多\n\n10:01.015 --> 10:02.997\n臺商市政府提出可行性評估的方案上來你來補助好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.625,"end":4.645,"text":"楊瓊發言"},{"start":14.977,"end":40.06,"text":"部長好來自台中也經過台中民意的一個洗禮過所以你更了解我們全國的路網那所以我們實質來討論我們自己的家台中2019年的時候呢那麼交通部長林佳龍部長當時他也非常的關心所以他公開的承諾也就是連結苗栗、三義、高蘭、台中、澳栗"},{"start":40.8,"end":41.621,"text":"實驗了三個部長都去看"},{"start":62.842,"end":63.062,"text":"請壓下去 時間暫停"},{"start":88.438,"end":106.071,"text":"這個對地方的觀光來講很重要進度的部分我請台鐵來跟您報告好請跟委員報告現在我們正在擬定董事長也跟我去看過對我看過三次對我們就依據先前我們去會刊的一個方式我們現在在報部程序"},{"start":106.411,"end":107.111,"text":"臺中地區大眾捷運系統整體入網的評估計畫"},{"start":132.544,"end":137.408,"text":"重德豐原縣經過很多人潮密集還有學區整體效應非常大請問部長我們什麼時候要核定補助地方的經費你們什麼時候啟動可行性評估"},{"start":156.204,"end":184.112,"text":"那第三個議題也就是我一定要充分給你建議一定要延伸到風源隔壁就是神崗對我們社靠交流都一定要延伸到神崗來請做說明這三點好跟委員報告這條線的這個可行性研究的這個核定對我們來講經費的部分我們有跟臺中市政府那邊有溝通過他們目前的想法是比較高但是我們因為有一定的計算公式依我們的計算公式大概是1500萬左右"},{"start":186.635,"end":207.851,"text":"一千五百萬左右那中央補助的比例差不多一千一百萬左右但是臺中市政府跟我們說現在發包不太容易那我們會協助他來做發包可行性研究的部分我們會趕快來做一定要跟地方好好溝通趕快去把它完成以完成為目標我們這兩天有跟臺中市政府的相關單位有去溝通了那我們要這個經費呢你暫定了嗎您是說這個可言的部分嗎可言已經說了"},{"start":214.807,"end":239.161,"text":"那預算的部分要等他可行可言出來我們就依照要高額的補助我們台中因為台中不斷那接下來一個議題崇德這個豐原縣要延伸到這個神崗因為他在隔壁而已這個您積極在爭取因為他交流到對我覺得這個部分可以在可言的過程當中我們跟台中市政府來溝通一定要納入把這個部分把它納入來討論"},{"start":239.761,"end":240.021,"text":"臺中山海環線卡關10年"},{"start":260.475,"end":278.646,"text":"在交通委員會本席也跟你的次長討論過也就是我們修正為三個指向三個指向在海線以及山線的部分那麼我們現在臺中市政府積極在研議積極在修正依照你們的指示所以我們盡快會送上來送上來也承諾要盡快去審核核定我們的目標也就是趕快執行那接下來就是甲貨線"},{"start":288.272,"end":288.713,"text":"假貨線目前的進度"},{"start":295.314,"end":317.07,"text":"三個指向其他兩個指向您應該都很清楚在進度上您都沒有問題假後線是一個新增的路線那新增的路線有兩個可能性就是第一個可能性由台鐵他們去研議有沒有這個需求性有需求性或許台鐵可以做那第二個可能性其實要由地方政府來研議如果地方政府他們研議有可能性可以由地方來贏"},{"start":318.291,"end":321.232,"text":"議員您在要求的部分我們有理解到您的要求理解到是要不要積極去推動"},{"start":342.874,"end":367.487,"text":"我剛剛有說過因為它過去不是一條原本就有的鐵道它是新增的鐵道那新增的鐵道我們會由台鐵去研議有沒有這個需求有這個需求我們大概會做不是如此的回答本席不同意因為這已經是由行政院合併將這一條綠線拆成三項指向所以這是既定政策務必要去執行本席告訴你"},{"start":368.135,"end":392.231,"text":"我們也希望能夠往前推動啦其實當時我在擔任議員的時候趕快去追蹤你自己本身也一直講了很多次積極追蹤進度一定要推動好不好認同嗎進度的部分我來了解沒問題最後一個議題也就是我們國道四號清水道風源段我們當時2001年的時候你後風交流道設置西入東出"},{"start":393.26,"end":409.057,"text":"哪有一個建設只做一半,你的東路西出沒有害了我們整個,我們每一天都在那邊塞車你中央政府所做的,到現在人民在痛苦"},{"start":409.878,"end":425.066,"text":"所以本席具體建議東立西出的閘道它造成後裏豐原往潭子北屯我們的北屯潭柱到奧立這一些都在這邊出路交流量人口數急劇的增加"},{"start":426.207,"end":426.547,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":454.764,"end":468.072,"text":"10年前那個地方的交通量可能還沒有到達那個程度那現在10年後確實那個地方開始有在塞車了所以有這樣的需求我們來協助看地方政府的部分你的可行性評估你趕快協助"},{"start":469.827,"end":489.002,"text":"你趕快協助我們務必要做你已經說了人口增加到這個地方沒有問題委員但是這個必須要地方政府來提出我們地方政府提出你給我撥走那個可行性評估當然講清楚市府要提出我們地方政府提出可行性評估你們來補助你同意補助嗎我們趕快會提出可行性評估的部分由地方自求"},{"start":497.845,"end":510.682,"text":"這是你中央你中央當時只有做半套啊那頂多是200萬左右的經費啊你幫我導著你當時你一定有預期效果"},{"start":512.15,"end":519.715,"text":"你只有做半套當然是你的責任來可行性評估我們台中市政府等一下等一下可行性評估趕快提出來因為這是面臨目前我們社會所需好不好我們市府提出你來補助好不好部長等一下我們也請你回來後面的規劃設計交通部會來協助但是過去可能沒有的案例沒有你要照程序可行性評估對不對"},{"start":541.738,"end":562.467,"text":"部長不是錢的問題啊對啊錢是問題啊我也很想協助對但是要看他們的規定上可不可以這是第一個當然可以因為你做笨套地方政府的部分我們盡量來協助我們地方政府來提出你來補助好不好因為目前需要這個方式嘛部長你請你回答我"},{"start":563.362,"end":582.108,"text":"你請你回答我中央政府只做雜道做一邊導致目前我們這樣子的擁擠沒有理由不解決我們所以本期具體建議可行性評估由台中市政府提出你們來補助我們趕快研擬不要再拖頭了我一年要增加多少人口"},{"start":583.666,"end":600.615,"text":"好 我們來討論有沒有這樣的可能性不是討論可能性 你要答應我我希望朝這個方向好 朝這個方向所以要趕快來努力要不然你做半套導致我們擠得這麼嚴重尤其我們的北端淡柱這一個區塊風源是人口數急劇增加最多"},{"start":601.015,"end":602.997,"text":"臺商市政府提出可行性評估的方案上來你來補助好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":6,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-6","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"14:00:09 - 14:10:29","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":155631,"gazette":{"lineno":918,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（14時）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。首先邀請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。你來自臺中，也經過臺中民意的洗禮過，所以你更了解全國的路網，所以我們實質來討論我們自己的家──臺中。2019年，當時的交通部林佳龍部長也非常關心，他公開承諾連結苗栗三義跟臺中后里的舊山線復駛，而你在當議員的時候，也非常極力地來推動。同時他也承諾經費15億由中央全額來負擔。這關係到整個地方的發展跟觀光，所以大家非常期待。時任的三個部長都去看，所以當時我在總質詢也特別邀請你趕快回來，你也答應儘速來看。請教舊山線復駛的進度為何？你什麼時候要來看？儘速來看！"],["陳部長世凱：這個對地方的觀光來講很重要，進度的部分，我請臺鐵來跟您報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，請。"],["杜董事長微：現在我們正在擬定我們的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：董事長也跟我去看過。"],["杜董事長微：對，我看過三次。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。"],["杜董事長微：我們就依據先前我們去會勘的方式，現在在報部程序。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：已經要報部，所以部長更要力挺，到地方來看。"],["陳部長世凱：好，沒有問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們希望在第四任的部長──你儘速來完成，有沒有信心？"],["陳部長世凱：好，我們來努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有信心？"],["陳部長世凱：我們來努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有努力，有沒有信心？"],["陳部長世凱：有啦！信心一定有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有信心，一定要達成。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來，本席要請問2021年我們提報的臺中地區大眾捷運系統整體路網評估計畫，那麼崇德豐原線經過了很多人潮非常密集的地方，還有學區，你也非常清楚，整體效應非常大。"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我直接請問部長，什麼時候要核定補助地方的經費？你們什麼時候啟動可行性評估？第三個議題，也就是我一定要充分給你建議，一定要延伸到豐原隔壁的神岡，就是社口交流道一定要延伸到神岡。請說明這三點。"],["陳部長世凱：這一條線可行性研究的核定，對我們來講，經費的部分，我們有跟臺中市政府溝通過，他們目前的想法比較高，因為有一定的計算公式，依我們的計算公式大概是1,500萬左右，中央補助的比例差不多1,100萬左右。但是臺中市政府跟我們說，現在發包不太容易，我們會協助它來發包，可行性研究的部分，我們會趕快來做……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可行性的部分一定要跟地方好好溝通，趕快把它完成，以完成為目標。"],["陳部長世凱：當然。我們這兩天有跟臺中市政府相關單位溝通了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：經費呢？你暫定了嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：您是說可研的部分嗎？可行性研究的部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可研已經說了。"],["陳部長世凱：預算的部分要等可行性研究……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可研出來，我們就依照……"],["陳部長世凱：對，就是照地方算出來……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要高額補助臺中，因為臺中不斷……","接下來另一個議題，崇德豐原線要延伸到神岡，因為在隔壁而已。因為交流道……"],["陳部長世凱：這個您積極在爭取嘛！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。"],["陳部長世凱：我覺得這個部分可以在可研的過程當中，我們跟臺中市政府來溝通。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一定要納入。"],["陳部長世凱：把這個部分納入討論，好不好？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為你來自我們家鄉，你知道這個地方整天都在塞。"],["陳部長世凱：但是可行性研究的部分還是由地方政府下去做，這個部分我們會協助來溝通。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們當然希望你要協助溝通，納入神岡。","接下來，臺中山海環線卡關十年到現在，本席在交通委員會也跟次長討論過，也就是我們修正為三個子項，三個子項在海線以及山線的部分，現在臺中市政府積極在研議，也依照你們的指示積極在修正，會儘快送上來，你們也要承諾儘快審核、核定我們的目標，接著也就趕快執行。","接下來就是甲后線，如果甲后線沒有串起來，它不是真正的山海環線，請問甲后線目前的進度？三個子項之一……"],["陳部長世凱：其他兩個子項，您應該都很清楚，進度上，您都沒問題。甲后線是一個新增的路線，新增的路線有兩個可能性，第一個可能性是由臺鐵研議有沒有這個需求性，有需求性或許臺鐵可以做。第二個可能性其實要由地方政府來研議，如果地方政府研議有可行性，可以由地方來新增路線。這是新增路線。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你要清楚，它不是新增，而是整條道路裡頭的三項之一，所以它不是新增。"],["陳部長世凱：我的意思是，這條軌道過去是不存在的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我特別要求甲后線務必要串聯起來，才是真正的山海環線，要積極追蹤進度，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：委員要求的部分，我們有理解到了，我們有理解到您的要求。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：理解到，要不要積極去推動？"],["陳部長世凱：我剛剛有說過，因為它不是一條原本就有的鐵道，而是新增的鐵道，新增的鐵道會由臺鐵研議有沒有這個需求，有這個需求大概就會做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是！如此的回答，本席不同意。"],["陳部長世凱：或者是我希望臺中市政府也會來研議……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為已經由行政院核定將這一條路線拆成三項子項，所以這是既定政策，務必要去執行，本席告訴你！"],["陳部長世凱：我們也希望能夠往前推動，當時我在擔任議員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：趕快去追蹤！你自己本身也講了很多次。"],["陳部長世凱：好，我來追蹤。我當時……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：積極追蹤進度，一定要推動，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：認同嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：進度的部分，我來了解，沒有問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題，也就是國道4號清水到豐原段，2001年后豐交流道設置西入東出，哪有一個建設只做一半？沒有東入西出，害當地每一天都在塞車，這是中央政府所做的，現在卻讓人民在痛苦，所以本席具體建議要有東入西出的匝道。后里、豐原往潭子、北屯以及北屯、潭子到后里都在這邊出入，車流量、人口數急遽增加，車流量非常大。當時的匝道只有做半套，因為政府事情做半套，造成人民壅塞，我認為你理當有責任要趕快把它做好，所以本席具體建議，你們趕快把錢給地方政府進行可行性評估。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那沒幾百萬，你應該趕快讓我們做。"],["陳部長世凱：十年前那個地方的交通量可能還沒有到達那個程度，十年後確實那個地方開始有在塞車，所以有這樣的需求，我們來協助看地方政府的部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你趕快協助做可行性評估，我們務必要做。你已經說了，人口增加到這個地方……"],["陳部長世凱：可行性研究沒有問題，但是這個必須要地方政府來提出，它提出……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：地方政府提出，你補助我們做可行性評估。"],["趙局長興華：我們請市府儘快來處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要講清楚！"],["陳部長世凱：市府要提出，我們來補助。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：地方政府提出可行性評估，你們來補助，那才幾百萬而已，你同意補助嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對。問題是它還沒提出。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們會趕快提出。"],["趙局長興華：可行性評估的部分由地方自籌。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有！你們要補，這是因為中央當時只有做半套，頂多需要兩百萬左右的經費。你當時一定有預期效果，卻只有做半套，當然是你的責任。可行性評估臺中市政府……"],["趙局長興華：這個半套的產生不是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：等一下、等一下！可行性評估趕快提出來，因為這是目前我們社會所需。"],["陳部長世凱：這個由市府來提出。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：市府提出，你來補助，好不好？"],["趙局長興華：後面的規劃設計等等都是我們這邊來做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長等一下，我沒有請你回答。"],["陳部長世凱：後面的規劃設計，交通部會來協助，過去可能沒有這樣的案例，但是我們來溝通。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有！要照程序，可行性評估才200萬而已，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：不是錢的問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：錢是問題！"],["陳部長世凱：我也很想協助，但是要看他們的規定可不可以，這是第一個。第二個，地方……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然可以，因為你做半套！"],["陳部長世凱：地方政府的部分，我們儘量來協助，跟他們溝通。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：地方政府提出，你來補助，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：我希望朝這個方向，但是也要了解一下高公局的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為目前需要這樣的方式！部長，請你回答我，中央政府匝道只做一邊，導致目前我們這樣的擁擠，沒有理由不解決，所以本席具體建議，可行性評估由臺中市政府提出，你們來補助，我們趕快研擬，不要再蹉跎了，當地一年增加多少人口！"],["陳部長世凱：好，我們來討論有沒有這樣的可能性。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是討論可能性，你要答應我。"],["陳部長世凱：我希望朝這個方向，但也要看高公局……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：朝這個方向，所以要趕快來努力。要不然，你做半套，導致我們擠得這麼嚴重，尤其我們的北屯、潭子、豐原這一個區塊是人口數急遽增加最多……"],["陳部長世凱：對啦！跟十年前的計畫完全不一樣……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你不能再慢一步不做，對不對？這是中央政府當時所做，你如果幫我們做整套，我們沒有問題，現在半套，我們也接受這個痛苦，但是你要幫我們解決，好不好？臺中市政府提出可行性評估的方案上來，你來補助。"],["陳部長世凱：大家一起來努力，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","接下來邀請涂權吉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":106,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-6","speakers":["陳素月","李昆澤","林沛祥","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","魯明哲","廖先翔","黃健豪","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","林德福","黃建賓","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","何欣純","葉元之","廖偉翔","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","洪孟楷","李柏毅","陳瑩","黃國昌","邱志偉","游顥","麥玉珍","林宜瑾","劉建國","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138501_00001"}}}