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{\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 639.466, \"end\": 639.726, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 639.726, \"end\": 639.846, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 639.846, \"end\": 639.986, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 639.986, \"end\": 640.146, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 640.146, \"end\": 640.506, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 640.506, \"end\": 640.646, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 640.646, \"end\": 640.666, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,530 --> 00:00:02,494\n謝謝主席有請顧部長來顧部長請是羅委員好\n\n2\n00:00:12,303 --> 00:00:38,870\n部長早安昨天呢本期跟國安局呢探討了這個聯合力艦2024B的這個軍演我今天還是要跟部長再談一談這個10月14號聯合力艦2024這個軍演的這個部分那中國解放軍呢他是在14號的凌晨5點宣布要展開環台的軍演我想請問部長\n\n3\n00:00:41,138 --> 00:00:42,259\n秦芝的預判我們確實有一些掌握那因為依照相關的這個他們的一個動這個\n\n4\n00:01:08,422 --> 00:01:09,782\n這確實的時間點我們事先並不知道只要說可能會有\n\n5\n00:01:33,911 --> 00:01:34,692\n中共在這個軍營以前有告知美國,這部分是事實嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:03,062 --> 00:02:31,664\n我想我沒有辦法代替美國回答這樣的一個問題但是我們跟美國有保持綿密的一個情緒的交換所以事先我們只知道說也許要軍演確實的時間點其實是不知道對不對那像之前我們也討論過很多次像聯合歷艦2024軍演其實它是一系列的有A或有B有B就有CDE一系列下去那會不會未來可能也就是半夜2點半夜3點它就突然間\n\n7\n00:02:32,825 --> 00:02:32,965\n李慧琼議員\n\n8\n00:02:50,686 --> 00:02:52,728\n中國會利用各種的藉口來實施一些大規模的一些演習的可能性我們沒辦法排除\n\n9\n00:03:13,164 --> 00:03:39,526\n但是他平常應該是剛剛我們也在業務報告裡面提到他每月平均大概3到4次的聯合戰備進行這是現在是已經固定的但是以這麼大規模來進行這個軍演的話我想說要因為所謂的常態化這個概念要稍微定義一下我們現在只能夠說觀察到現在聯合戰備進行是有一個常態化的一個現象\n\n10\n00:03:40,146 --> 00:03:51,570\n但是聯合力艦的這樣規模的一個演習,他基本上還是會,可能會在不定的時間裡面,來進行這樣子的一個\n\n11\n00:03:56,711 --> 00:04:02,974\n所以部長您的意思就是說也許他就是突然間就告知就像我們這次14號對國人來講就是一個好像是突擊式的這個軍援所以我才想說我們事先有沒有訊息得知說他這個時間點14號早上凌晨5點\n\n12\n00:04:23,585 --> 00:04:51,022\n中共他要宣布來展開這個軍演的這個活動我想了解是這樣子說往後可能我們隨時就會standby也許半夜某天的半夜兩點三點突然間來了一個軍演我們應該是說我們已經做好應處那但是所以不管他任何時候軍演我們都做好準備的意思我們沒有辦法確確的能夠掌握說他是在exactly是在哪一天宣布軍演但是我們已經事前有掌握相關的情節應該是這樣講\n\n13\n00:04:52,543 --> 00:04:59,009\n好那部長當然我昨天也有跟國安單位在談到一個讓大家很憂心的就是說OK早上覺得有一點點風聲鶴唳可是後來呢那股票記得台股那天早上剛開盤的時候有一些震盪那之後呢也都沒事了到收盤還收了紅盤那像我們一些概念股金工股啊\n\n14\n00:05:13,881 --> 00:05:34,371\n他還有收紅牌的這個狀況那國人覺得好像也還好而已這是軍演也還好而已沒什麼可是這一次我們發現說不管是他的這個演習的規模或者是戰略目標其實都有提升了我們發現說國人好像有忽略了這個部分尤其這一次中國海警船還派出了這個排水量高達\n\n15\n00:05:36,952 --> 00:06:04,271\n一萬兩千噸的這個公噸的這個海警船2901編號那他的火力其實也是等同於海軍二級艦像還有他派出來的這個軍艦也好或者是說這個海警船也好他這個收次呢都是比2020年統計以來最大一次的這個最大的這個數量像這個的話其實他在規模上來講的其實\n\n16\n00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:06,873\n：羅美玲\n\n17\n00:06:33,877 --> 00:06:34,797\n部長這部分你怎麼看呢?\n\n18\n00:06:54,449 --> 00:07:01,199\n對,不管是由信轉引或由言轉戰,這樣子的一個想定都在我們這個研討的範圍之內,然後也\n\n19\n00:07:07,418 --> 00:07:21,285\n他這樣子的一種可能的行動會壓縮我們預警的時間然後這個可能性是存在的所以我們因應這樣的預警時間壓縮的情況之下我們這個要進入這個比如說要進入到一個加強截備然後再進入到來\n\n20\n00:07:35,237 --> 00:07:53,032\n來應急來應處的這個時間會在壓縮的情況下我們配合這樣子的一個想定我們就來縮短我們所有應該要準備的這個時間事實上跟委員報告我可以說在今年的航空演習事實上就已經納入這樣的想定了\n\n21\n00:07:54,673 --> 00:07:58,956\n中共在海上灰色地帶的侵擾是非常的頻繁尤其是在南海我們也看到菲律賓在今年跟中國的衝突其實是明顯的\n\n22\n00:08:14,705 --> 00:08:30,889\n提高了很多,比如說中國的海警船它曾經好幾次的蓄意衝撞或這種高壓水砲的方式來攻擊菲律賓的海警船或是民船,甚至還強行登上了菲律賓的船隻來奪取他們的槍支跟裝備等等,這種狀況會不會發生在台海之間呢?\n\n23\n00:08:33,683 --> 00:09:00,768\n南海的這個灰色地帶行動會不會複製在這個台海之間?我們一直持續關注他這種灰色地帶的一個洗澡的一個可能性所以在這個部分也納入我們跟應處的範圍那特別是有我們要跟這個海巡要做充分的結合配合然後做一個即時情緒的一個交換那同時來共同應處這樣的一個可能的作為\n\n24\n00:09:01,764 --> 00:09:27,926\n所以這部分也是會是我們擔心的部分是不是?哪天就像就是滄香走火了然後呢中國呢需要製造更大的這個衝突來造成台海之間的不平靜應該很明顯就是說他的海警他的海警這一次向配合軍艦來共同行動他就是意圖運用這個法律戰跟這個心理戰跟然後認知戰來作為將這個台海內水化\n\n25\n00:09:28,426 --> 00:09:33,669\n臺灣問題內政化的目的海警要用執法作為彰顯主權事實上我們也要捍衛我們的主權我們認為像這樣子的一種進行應用海警作為相關的作為我們要隨時要警惕然後要妥適的來應處\n\n26\n00:09:52,601 --> 00:09:54,443\n海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍\n\n27\n00:10:12,844 --> 00:10:13,645\n國防部國安單位如果有機會的話還是要跟國人來強調\n\n28\n00:10:39,466 --> 00:10:40,666\n謝謝羅美玲委員部長各位請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n530\t2494\t謝謝主席 有請顧部長來 顧部長請是 羅委員好\n12303\t38870\t部長早安昨天呢本期跟國安局呢探討了這個聯合力艦2024B的這個軍演我今天還是要跟部長再談一談這個10月14號聯合力艦2024這個軍演的這個部分那中國解放軍呢他是在14號的凌晨5點宣布要展開環台的軍演我想請問部長\n41138\t42259\t秦芝的預判我們確實有一些掌握那因為依照相關的這個他們的一個動這個\n68422\t69782\t這確實的時間點我們事先並不知道只要說可能會有\n93911\t94692\t中共在這個軍營以前有告知美國,這部分是事實嗎?\n123062\t151664\t我想我沒有辦法代替美國回答這樣的一個問題但是我們跟美國有保持綿密的一個情緒的交換所以事先我們只知道說也許要軍演確實的時間點其實是不知道對不對那像之前我們也討論過很多次像聯合歷艦2024軍演其實它是一系列的有A或有B有B就有CDE一系列下去那會不會未來可能也就是半夜2點半夜3點它就突然間\n152825\t152965\t李慧琼議員\n170686\t172728\t中國會利用各種的藉口來實施一些大規模的一些演習的可能性我們沒辦法排除\n193164\t219526\t但是他平常應該是剛剛我們也在業務報告裡面提到他每月平均大概3到4次的聯合戰備進行這是現在是已經固定的但是以這麼大規模來進行這個軍演的話我想說要因為所謂的常態化這個概念要稍微定義一下我們現在只能夠說觀察到現在聯合戰備進行是有一個常態化的一個現象\n220146\t231570\t但是聯合力艦的這樣規模的一個演習,他基本上還是會,可能會在不定的時間裡面,來進行這樣子的一個\n236711\t242974\t所以部長您的意思就是說也許他就是突然間就告知就像我們這次14號對國人來講就是一個好像是突擊式的這個軍援所以我才想說我們事先有沒有訊息得知說他這個時間點14號早上凌晨5點\n263585\t291022\t中共他要宣布來展開這個軍演的這個活動我想了解是這樣子說往後可能我們隨時就會stand by也許半夜某天的半夜兩點三點突然間來了一個軍演我們應該是說我們已經做好應處那但是所以不管他任何時候軍演我們都做好準備的意思我們沒有辦法確確的能夠掌握說他是在exactly是在哪一天宣布軍演但是我們已經事前有掌握相關的情節應該是這樣講\n292543\t299009\t好那部長當然我昨天也有跟國安單位在談到一個讓大家很憂心的就是說OK早上覺得有一點點風聲鶴唳可是後來呢那股票記得台股那天早上剛開盤的時候有一些震盪那之後呢也都沒事了到收盤還收了紅盤那像我們一些概念股金工股啊\n313881\t334371\t他還有收紅牌的這個狀況那國人覺得好像也還好而已這是軍演也還好而已沒什麼可是這一次我們發現說不管是他的這個演習的規模或者是戰略目標其實都有提升了我們發現說國人好像有忽略了這個部分尤其這一次中國海警船還派出了這個排水量高達\n336952\t364271\t一萬兩千噸的這個公噸的這個海警船2901編號那他的火力其實也是等同於海軍二級艦像還有他派出來的這個軍艦也好或者是說這個海警船也好他這個收次呢都是比2020年統計以來最大一次的這個最大的這個數量像這個的話其實他在規模上來講的其實\n366733\t366873\t：羅美玲\n393877\t394797\t部長這部分你怎麼看呢?\n414449\t421199\t對,不管是由信轉引或由言轉戰,這樣子的一個想定都在我們這個研討的範圍之內,然後也\n427418\t441285\t他這樣子的一種可能的行動會壓縮我們預警的時間然後這個可能性是存在的所以我們因應這樣的預警時間壓縮的情況之下我們這個要進入這個比如說要進入到一個加強截備然後再進入到來\n455237\t473032\t來應急來應處的這個時間會在壓縮的情況下我們配合這樣子的一個想定我們就來縮短我們所有應該要準備的這個時間事實上跟委員報告我可以說在今年的航空演習事實上就已經納入這樣的想定了\n474673\t478956\t中共在海上灰色地帶的侵擾是非常的頻繁尤其是在南海我們也看到菲律賓在今年跟中國的衝突其實是明顯的\n494705\t510889\t提高了很多,比如說中國的海警船它曾經好幾次的蓄意衝撞或這種高壓水砲的方式來攻擊菲律賓的海警船或是民船,甚至還強行登上了菲律賓的船隻來奪取他們的槍支跟裝備等等,這種狀況會不會發生在台海之間呢?\n513683\t540768\t南海的這個灰色地帶行動會不會複製在這個台海之間?我們一直持續關注他這種灰色地帶的一個洗澡的一個可能性所以在這個部分也納入我們跟應處的範圍那特別是有我們要跟這個海巡要做充分的結合配合然後做一個即時情緒的一個交換那同時來共同應處這樣的一個可能的作為\n541764\t567926\t所以這部分也是會是我們擔心的部分是不是?哪天就像就是滄香走火了然後呢中國呢需要製造更大的這個衝突來造成台海之間的不平靜應該很明顯就是說他的海警他的海警這一次向配合軍艦來共同行動他就是意圖運用這個法律戰跟這個心理戰跟然後認知戰來作為將這個台海內水化\n568426\t573669\t臺灣問題內政化的目的海警要用執法作為彰顯主權事實上我們也要捍衛我們的主權我們認為像這樣子的一種進行應用海警作為相關的作為我們要隨時要警惕然後要妥適的來應處\n592601\t594443\t海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍\n612844\t613645\t國防部國安單位如果有機會的話還是要跟國人來強調\n639466\t640666\t謝謝羅美玲委員部長各位請回\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請顧部長來 顧部長請是 羅委員好\n部長早安昨天呢本期跟國安局呢探討了這個聯合力艦2024B的這個軍演我今天還是要跟部長再談一談這個10月14號聯合力艦2024這個軍演的這個部分那中國解放軍呢他是在14號的凌晨5點宣布要展開環台的軍演我想請問部長\n秦芝的預判我們確實有一些掌握那因為依照相關的這個他們的一個動這個\n這確實的時間點我們事先並不知道只要說可能會有\n中共在這個軍營以前有告知美國,這部分是事實嗎?\n我想我沒有辦法代替美國回答這樣的一個問題但是我們跟美國有保持綿密的一個情緒的交換所以事先我們只知道說也許要軍演確實的時間點其實是不知道對不對那像之前我們也討論過很多次像聯合歷艦2024軍演其實它是一系列的有A或有B有B就有CDE一系列下去那會不會未來可能也就是半夜2點半夜3點它就突然間\n李慧琼議員\n中國會利用各種的藉口來實施一些大規模的一些演習的可能性我們沒辦法排除\n但是他平常應該是剛剛我們也在業務報告裡面提到他每月平均大概3到4次的聯合戰備進行這是現在是已經固定的但是以這麼大規模來進行這個軍演的話我想說要因為所謂的常態化這個概念要稍微定義一下我們現在只能夠說觀察到現在聯合戰備進行是有一個常態化的一個現象\n但是聯合力艦的這樣規模的一個演習,他基本上還是會,可能會在不定的時間裡面,來進行這樣子的一個\n所以部長您的意思就是說也許他就是突然間就告知就像我們這次14號對國人來講就是一個好像是突擊式的這個軍援所以我才想說我們事先有沒有訊息得知說他這個時間點14號早上凌晨5點\n中共他要宣布來展開這個軍演的這個活動我想了解是這樣子說往後可能我們隨時就會stand by也許半夜某天的半夜兩點三點突然間來了一個軍演我們應該是說我們已經做好應處那但是所以不管他任何時候軍演我們都做好準備的意思我們沒有辦法確確的能夠掌握說他是在exactly是在哪一天宣布軍演但是我們已經事前有掌握相關的情節應該是這樣講\n好那部長當然我昨天也有跟國安單位在談到一個讓大家很憂心的就是說OK早上覺得有一點點風聲鶴唳可是後來呢那股票記得台股那天早上剛開盤的時候有一些震盪那之後呢也都沒事了到收盤還收了紅盤那像我們一些概念股金工股啊\n他還有收紅牌的這個狀況那國人覺得好像也還好而已這是軍演也還好而已沒什麼可是這一次我們發現說不管是他的這個演習的規模或者是戰略目標其實都有提升了我們發現說國人好像有忽略了這個部分尤其這一次中國海警船還派出了這個排水量高達\n一萬兩千噸的這個公噸的這個海警船2901編號那他的火力其實也是等同於海軍二級艦像還有他派出來的這個軍艦也好或者是說這個海警船也好他這個收次呢都是比2020年統計以來最大一次的這個最大的這個數量像這個的話其實他在規模上來講的其實\n：羅美玲\n部長這部分你怎麼看呢?\n對,不管是由信轉引或由言轉戰,這樣子的一個想定都在我們這個研討的範圍之內,然後也\n他這樣子的一種可能的行動會壓縮我們預警的時間然後這個可能性是存在的所以我們因應這樣的預警時間壓縮的情況之下我們這個要進入這個比如說要進入到一個加強截備然後再進入到來\n來應急來應處的這個時間會在壓縮的情況下我們配合這樣子的一個想定我們就來縮短我們所有應該要準備的這個時間事實上跟委員報告我可以說在今年的航空演習事實上就已經納入這樣的想定了\n中共在海上灰色地帶的侵擾是非常的頻繁尤其是在南海我們也看到菲律賓在今年跟中國的衝突其實是明顯的\n提高了很多,比如說中國的海警船它曾經好幾次的蓄意衝撞或這種高壓水砲的方式來攻擊菲律賓的海警船或是民船,甚至還強行登上了菲律賓的船隻來奪取他們的槍支跟裝備等等,這種狀況會不會發生在台海之間呢?\n南海的這個灰色地帶行動會不會複製在這個台海之間?我們一直持續關注他這種灰色地帶的一個洗澡的一個可能性所以在這個部分也納入我們跟應處的範圍那特別是有我們要跟這個海巡要做充分的結合配合然後做一個即時情緒的一個交換那同時來共同應處這樣的一個可能的作為\n所以這部分也是會是我們擔心的部分是不是?哪天就像就是滄香走火了然後呢中國呢需要製造更大的這個衝突來造成台海之間的不平靜應該很明顯就是說他的海警他的海警這一次向配合軍艦來共同行動他就是意圖運用這個法律戰跟這個心理戰跟然後認知戰來作為將這個台海內水化\n臺灣問題內政化的目的海警要用執法作為彰顯主權事實上我們也要捍衛我們的主權我們認為像這樣子的一種進行應用海警作為相關的作為我們要隨時要警惕然後要妥適的來應處\n海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍\n國防部國安單位如果有機會的話還是要跟國人來強調\n謝謝羅美玲委員部長各位請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.530 --> 00:02.494\n謝謝主席有請顧部長來顧部長請是羅委員好\n\n00:12.303 --> 00:38.870\n部長早安昨天呢本期跟國安局呢探討了這個聯合力艦2024B的這個軍演我今天還是要跟部長再談一談這個10月14號聯合力艦2024這個軍演的這個部分那中國解放軍呢他是在14號的凌晨5點宣布要展開環台的軍演我想請問部長\n\n00:41.138 --> 00:42.259\n秦芝的預判我們確實有一些掌握那因為依照相關的這個他們的一個動這個\n\n01:08.422 --> 01:09.782\n這確實的時間點我們事先並不知道只要說可能會有\n\n01:33.911 --> 01:34.692\n中共在這個軍營以前有告知美國,這部分是事實嗎?\n\n02:03.062 --> 02:31.664\n我想我沒有辦法代替美國回答這樣的一個問題但是我們跟美國有保持綿密的一個情緒的交換所以事先我們只知道說也許要軍演確實的時間點其實是不知道對不對那像之前我們也討論過很多次像聯合歷艦2024軍演其實它是一系列的有A或有B有B就有CDE一系列下去那會不會未來可能也就是半夜2點半夜3點它就突然間\n\n02:32.825 --> 02:32.965\n李慧琼議員\n\n02:50.686 --> 02:52.728\n中國會利用各種的藉口來實施一些大規模的一些演習的可能性我們沒辦法排除\n\n03:13.164 --> 03:39.526\n但是他平常應該是剛剛我們也在業務報告裡面提到他每月平均大概3到4次的聯合戰備進行這是現在是已經固定的但是以這麼大規模來進行這個軍演的話我想說要因為所謂的常態化這個概念要稍微定義一下我們現在只能夠說觀察到現在聯合戰備進行是有一個常態化的一個現象\n\n03:40.146 --> 03:51.570\n但是聯合力艦的這樣規模的一個演習,他基本上還是會,可能會在不定的時間裡面,來進行這樣子的一個\n\n03:56.711 --> 04:02.974\n所以部長您的意思就是說也許他就是突然間就告知就像我們這次14號對國人來講就是一個好像是突擊式的這個軍援所以我才想說我們事先有沒有訊息得知說他這個時間點14號早上凌晨5點\n\n04:23.585 --> 04:51.022\n中共他要宣布來展開這個軍演的這個活動我想了解是這樣子說往後可能我們隨時就會standby也許半夜某天的半夜兩點三點突然間來了一個軍演我們應該是說我們已經做好應處那但是所以不管他任何時候軍演我們都做好準備的意思我們沒有辦法確確的能夠掌握說他是在exactly是在哪一天宣布軍演但是我們已經事前有掌握相關的情節應該是這樣講\n\n04:52.543 --> 04:59.009\n好那部長當然我昨天也有跟國安單位在談到一個讓大家很憂心的就是說OK早上覺得有一點點風聲鶴唳可是後來呢那股票記得台股那天早上剛開盤的時候有一些震盪那之後呢也都沒事了到收盤還收了紅盤那像我們一些概念股金工股啊\n\n05:13.881 --> 05:34.371\n他還有收紅牌的這個狀況那國人覺得好像也還好而已這是軍演也還好而已沒什麼可是這一次我們發現說不管是他的這個演習的規模或者是戰略目標其實都有提升了我們發現說國人好像有忽略了這個部分尤其這一次中國海警船還派出了這個排水量高達\n\n05:36.952 --> 06:04.271\n一萬兩千噸的這個公噸的這個海警船2901編號那他的火力其實也是等同於海軍二級艦像還有他派出來的這個軍艦也好或者是說這個海警船也好他這個收次呢都是比2020年統計以來最大一次的這個最大的這個數量像這個的話其實他在規模上來講的其實\n\n06:06.733 --> 06:06.873\n：羅美玲\n\n06:33.877 --> 06:34.797\n部長這部分你怎麼看呢?\n\n06:54.449 --> 07:01.199\n對,不管是由信轉引或由言轉戰,這樣子的一個想定都在我們這個研討的範圍之內,然後也\n\n07:07.418 --> 07:21.285\n他這樣子的一種可能的行動會壓縮我們預警的時間然後這個可能性是存在的所以我們因應這樣的預警時間壓縮的情況之下我們這個要進入這個比如說要進入到一個加強截備然後再進入到來\n\n07:35.237 --> 07:53.032\n來應急來應處的這個時間會在壓縮的情況下我們配合這樣子的一個想定我們就來縮短我們所有應該要準備的這個時間事實上跟委員報告我可以說在今年的航空演習事實上就已經納入這樣的想定了\n\n07:54.673 --> 07:58.956\n中共在海上灰色地帶的侵擾是非常的頻繁尤其是在南海我們也看到菲律賓在今年跟中國的衝突其實是明顯的\n\n08:14.705 --> 08:30.889\n提高了很多,比如說中國的海警船它曾經好幾次的蓄意衝撞或這種高壓水砲的方式來攻擊菲律賓的海警船或是民船,甚至還強行登上了菲律賓的船隻來奪取他們的槍支跟裝備等等,這種狀況會不會發生在台海之間呢?\n\n08:33.683 --> 09:00.768\n南海的這個灰色地帶行動會不會複製在這個台海之間?我們一直持續關注他這種灰色地帶的一個洗澡的一個可能性所以在這個部分也納入我們跟應處的範圍那特別是有我們要跟這個海巡要做充分的結合配合然後做一個即時情緒的一個交換那同時來共同應處這樣的一個可能的作為\n\n09:01.764 --> 09:27.926\n所以這部分也是會是我們擔心的部分是不是?哪天就像就是滄香走火了然後呢中國呢需要製造更大的這個衝突來造成台海之間的不平靜應該很明顯就是說他的海警他的海警這一次向配合軍艦來共同行動他就是意圖運用這個法律戰跟這個心理戰跟然後認知戰來作為將這個台海內水化\n\n09:28.426 --> 09:33.669\n臺灣問題內政化的目的海警要用執法作為彰顯主權事實上我們也要捍衛我們的主權我們認為像這樣子的一種進行應用海警作為相關的作為我們要隨時要警惕然後要妥適的來應處\n\n09:52.601 --> 09:54.443\n海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍\n\n10:12.844 --> 10:13.645\n國防部國安單位如果有機會的話還是要跟國人來強調\n\n10:39.466 --> 10:40.666\n謝謝羅美玲委員部長各位請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.53,"end":2.494,"text":"謝謝主席 有請顧部長來 顧部長請是 羅委員好"},{"start":12.303,"end":38.87,"text":"部長早安昨天呢本期跟國安局呢探討了這個聯合力艦2024B的這個軍演我今天還是要跟部長再談一談這個10月14號聯合力艦2024這個軍演的這個部分那中國解放軍呢他是在14號的凌晨5點宣布要展開環台的軍演我想請問部長"},{"start":41.138,"end":42.259,"text":"秦芝的預判我們確實有一些掌握那因為依照相關的這個他們的一個動這個"},{"start":68.422,"end":69.782,"text":"這確實的時間點我們事先並不知道只要說可能會有"},{"start":93.911,"end":94.692,"text":"中共在這個軍營以前有告知美國,這部分是事實嗎?"},{"start":123.062,"end":151.664,"text":"我想我沒有辦法代替美國回答這樣的一個問題但是我們跟美國有保持綿密的一個情緒的交換所以事先我們只知道說也許要軍演確實的時間點其實是不知道對不對那像之前我們也討論過很多次像聯合歷艦2024軍演其實它是一系列的有A或有B有B就有CDE一系列下去那會不會未來可能也就是半夜2點半夜3點它就突然間"},{"start":152.825,"end":152.965,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":170.686,"end":172.728,"text":"中國會利用各種的藉口來實施一些大規模的一些演習的可能性我們沒辦法排除"},{"start":193.164,"end":219.526,"text":"但是他平常應該是剛剛我們也在業務報告裡面提到他每月平均大概3到4次的聯合戰備進行這是現在是已經固定的但是以這麼大規模來進行這個軍演的話我想說要因為所謂的常態化這個概念要稍微定義一下我們現在只能夠說觀察到現在聯合戰備進行是有一個常態化的一個現象"},{"start":220.146,"end":231.57,"text":"但是聯合力艦的這樣規模的一個演習,他基本上還是會,可能會在不定的時間裡面,來進行這樣子的一個"},{"start":236.711,"end":242.974,"text":"所以部長您的意思就是說也許他就是突然間就告知就像我們這次14號對國人來講就是一個好像是突擊式的這個軍援所以我才想說我們事先有沒有訊息得知說他這個時間點14號早上凌晨5點"},{"start":263.585,"end":291.022,"text":"中共他要宣布來展開這個軍演的這個活動我想了解是這樣子說往後可能我們隨時就會stand by也許半夜某天的半夜兩點三點突然間來了一個軍演我們應該是說我們已經做好應處那但是所以不管他任何時候軍演我們都做好準備的意思我們沒有辦法確確的能夠掌握說他是在exactly是在哪一天宣布軍演但是我們已經事前有掌握相關的情節應該是這樣講"},{"start":292.543,"end":299.009,"text":"好那部長當然我昨天也有跟國安單位在談到一個讓大家很憂心的就是說OK早上覺得有一點點風聲鶴唳可是後來呢那股票記得台股那天早上剛開盤的時候有一些震盪那之後呢也都沒事了到收盤還收了紅盤那像我們一些概念股金工股啊"},{"start":313.881,"end":334.371,"text":"他還有收紅牌的這個狀況那國人覺得好像也還好而已這是軍演也還好而已沒什麼可是這一次我們發現說不管是他的這個演習的規模或者是戰略目標其實都有提升了我們發現說國人好像有忽略了這個部分尤其這一次中國海警船還派出了這個排水量高達"},{"start":336.952,"end":364.271,"text":"一萬兩千噸的這個公噸的這個海警船2901編號那他的火力其實也是等同於海軍二級艦像還有他派出來的這個軍艦也好或者是說這個海警船也好他這個收次呢都是比2020年統計以來最大一次的這個最大的這個數量像這個的話其實他在規模上來講的其實"},{"start":366.733,"end":366.873,"text":"：羅美玲"},{"start":393.877,"end":394.797,"text":"部長這部分你怎麼看呢?"},{"start":414.449,"end":421.199,"text":"對,不管是由信轉引或由言轉戰,這樣子的一個想定都在我們這個研討的範圍之內,然後也"},{"start":427.418,"end":441.285,"text":"他這樣子的一種可能的行動會壓縮我們預警的時間然後這個可能性是存在的所以我們因應這樣的預警時間壓縮的情況之下我們這個要進入這個比如說要進入到一個加強截備然後再進入到來"},{"start":455.237,"end":473.032,"text":"來應急來應處的這個時間會在壓縮的情況下我們配合這樣子的一個想定我們就來縮短我們所有應該要準備的這個時間事實上跟委員報告我可以說在今年的航空演習事實上就已經納入這樣的想定了"},{"start":474.673,"end":478.956,"text":"中共在海上灰色地帶的侵擾是非常的頻繁尤其是在南海我們也看到菲律賓在今年跟中國的衝突其實是明顯的"},{"start":494.705,"end":510.889,"text":"提高了很多,比如說中國的海警船它曾經好幾次的蓄意衝撞或這種高壓水砲的方式來攻擊菲律賓的海警船或是民船,甚至還強行登上了菲律賓的船隻來奪取他們的槍支跟裝備等等,這種狀況會不會發生在台海之間呢?"},{"start":513.683,"end":540.768,"text":"南海的這個灰色地帶行動會不會複製在這個台海之間?我們一直持續關注他這種灰色地帶的一個洗澡的一個可能性所以在這個部分也納入我們跟應處的範圍那特別是有我們要跟這個海巡要做充分的結合配合然後做一個即時情緒的一個交換那同時來共同應處這樣的一個可能的作為"},{"start":541.764,"end":567.926,"text":"所以這部分也是會是我們擔心的部分是不是?哪天就像就是滄香走火了然後呢中國呢需要製造更大的這個衝突來造成台海之間的不平靜應該很明顯就是說他的海警他的海警這一次向配合軍艦來共同行動他就是意圖運用這個法律戰跟這個心理戰跟然後認知戰來作為將這個台海內水化"},{"start":568.426,"end":573.669,"text":"臺灣問題內政化的目的海警要用執法作為彰顯主權事實上我們也要捍衛我們的主權我們認為像這樣子的一種進行應用海警作為相關的作為我們要隨時要警惕然後要妥適的來應處"},{"start":592.601,"end":594.443,"text":"海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍海軍"},{"start":612.844,"end":613.645,"text":"國防部國安單位如果有機會的話還是要跟國人來強調"},{"start":639.466,"end":640.666,"text":"謝謝羅美玲委員部長各位請回"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":157,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時36分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：來，顧部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：羅委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長早安。昨天本席跟國安局探討了「聯合利劍2024-B」這個軍演，我今天還是要跟部長再談一談，10月14號聯合利劍2024軍演這個部分。中國解放軍是在14號的凌晨5點宣布要展開環臺的軍演，我想請問部長，這對我們來講是突發狀況嗎？我們有沒有事先接到任何的通知？我們是不是曉得在這個時間點會有這個軍演活動？"],["顧部長立雄：您是說情資的預判，是不是？"],["羅委員美玲：是。"],["顧部長立雄：情資的預判我們確實有一些掌握，因為依照他們相關的動態，比如說遼寧號，還有他們的海警船等等的，然後還有這些相關軍艦的動態，以及他們在之前的一些官媒上面的一些說法，我們當然會做一些情資的預判。"],["羅委員美玲：但確實的時間點，我們事先並不知道，只知道可能會有軍演活動，是這樣的意思嗎？因為我之前看到媒體報導說，其實美國有被告知，這是事實嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我們跟美國有保持充分的溝通，但是要說確切是哪一天，我想我們預判它會進行，但是沒有辦法預判確切的是哪一天。"],["羅委員美玲：不是，我是從媒體上面看到，說中共在宣布軍演以前有告知美國，這部分是事實嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我沒有辦法代替美國回答這樣一個問題，但是我們跟美國有保持綿密的情資交換。"],["羅委員美玲：OK。所以事先我們只知道也許要軍演，確實的時間點其實是不知道的，對不對？之前我們也討論過很多次，像聯合利劍2024軍演，其實它是一系列的，有A會有B，有B就有C、D、E，一系列下去，那會不會未來也可能是半夜兩點、半夜三點，中國突然間就宣布要軍演了，會變成這種常態性的軍演活動嗎？會嗎？會發生這種狀況嗎？像這一次軍演活動對國人來講是沒有預警的，早上一覺醒來，哇，軍演了，之後也會發生類似的狀況嗎？會變成常態性嗎？半夜兩點、三點，中共……"],["顧部長立雄：你是說類似聯合利劍這樣子等級規模的軍演？"],["羅委員美玲：是，沒錯。"],["顧部長立雄：這樣等級規模的軍演？"],["羅委員美玲：對，就是時間點會不會就突然間來個半夜兩點、三點？"],["顧部長立雄：我們只能夠說，中國有利用各種藉口實施一些大規模演習的可能性，我們沒辦法排除。剛剛我們也在業務報告裡面提到，平常應該是每月平均大概三到四次聯合戰備警巡，這是現在已經固定的。但是以這麼大規模來進行軍演，所謂的常態化這個概念要稍微定義一下，我們現在只能夠說觀察到現在，聯合戰備警巡有常態化的現象。至於聯合利劍這樣規模的演習，基本上還是可能會在不定的時間裡面進行這麼大規模程度的軍演，但應該不至於週期性的都會進行這樣的軍演。"],["羅委員美玲：部長的意思是，也許他就是突然間告知，就像這次14號，對國人來講，好像是突擊式的軍演，所以我才想問我們事先有沒有訊息，得知這個時間點，即14號早上凌晨五點，中共宣布要展開軍演活動？我想了解的是這樣子。往後可能我們隨時都要stand by，也許某天的半夜兩點、三點，突然間就來了個軍演。"],["顧部長立雄：我們應該是說我們已經做好應處，但是沒有……"],["羅委員美玲：不管他任何時候軍演，我們都做好準備，是這個意思，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：我們沒有辦法確切的能夠掌握他exactly是在哪一天宣布軍演，但是我們事先已經有掌握相關情資，應該是這樣講。"],["羅委員美玲：部長，我昨天也有跟國安單位談到一個讓大家很憂心的，就是早上覺得有一點點風聲鶴唳，記得臺股那天早上剛開盤的時候有一些震盪，之後也都沒事了，到收盤還收了紅盤，像一些軍工概念股還有收紅盤的狀況，國人覺得這次軍演也還好而已、沒什麼。可是我們發現這次不管是演習的規模或者是戰略目標，其實都有提升，國人卻好像忽略了這個部分。尤其這次中國還派出了排水量高達1萬2,000噸、編號2901的海警船，它的火力等同於海軍二級艦，還有他派出來的軍艦也好，或者是海警船也好，艘次是2020年統計以來最大的數量。在規模上來講，比以前都還要大，可是國人好像都忽略了，還有中共好像也刻意釋放出，這也還好，我們只是軍演，甚至還送了臺灣一個甜心派、愛心的圖，當然臺灣是無法消受。種種類似的戰略是不是也是一種兩面手法？鬆懈國人的警備心，實際上進行的所有軍演都比過往還來得更加嚴厲，也許會演變成部長一直所強調的、所擔心的，有由演轉戰的可能，這部分你怎麼看呢？"],["顧部長立雄：對，不管是由訓轉演或由演轉戰，這樣的想定都在我們研討的範圍之內，這樣可能的行動會壓縮我們預警的時間，這個可能性是存在的，所以我們因應……"],["羅委員美玲：所以也是考驗國軍因應的能力，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：我們在因應這樣的預警時間壓縮的情況之下，比如我們要進入到加強戒備，再進入到應處的時間在壓縮的情況之下，我們配合這樣的想定就縮短所有應該要整備的時間。我可以說今年的漢光演習事實上就已經納入這樣的想定了。"],["羅委員美玲：再來還有一點，除了剛剛部長所提到，我們真的是不能掉以輕心之外，共軍在海上灰色地帶的侵擾非常頻繁，尤其是在南海。我們也看到，菲律賓在今年跟中國的衝突明顯提高了很多，比如中國海警船曾經好幾次蓄意衝撞，或是用高壓水砲的方式攻擊菲律賓的海警船或是民船，甚至還強行登上菲律賓的船隻奪取他們的槍枝跟裝備等等，這種狀況會不會發生在臺海之間呢？南海的灰色地帶行動會不會複製在臺海之間？"],["顧部長立雄：我們一直持續關注這種灰色地帶襲擾的可能性，所以這個部分也納入我們應處的範圍，特別是我們跟海巡要充分配合，交換即時情資，同時來共同應處這樣可能的作為。"],["羅委員美玲：這也會是我們擔心的部分，是不是？哪天就擦槍走火了，然後中國是不是會製造更大的衝突，造成臺海之間的不平靜？"],["顧部長立雄：其目的應該很明顯，它的海警這一次配合軍艦來共同行動，就是意圖運用法律戰、心理戰跟認知戰，將臺海內海化，然後臺灣問題內政化這樣的目的。也就是它的海警要用執法的作為來彰顯它的主權。事實上，我們也要捍衛我們的主權，所以我們認為中國運用海警來做這樣相關的作為，我們要隨時警惕，也要妥適來應處。"],["羅委員美玲：當然，我們秉持海巡隊對海巡、海軍對海軍的這個遊戲規則，可是無論怎麼看，他們整個行動其實都是準軍事、準軍事部隊了，對不對？剛剛我提到，像它的編號2901海警船排水量高達1萬2,000公噸，種種跡象都比我們的戰力還要來得高。所以這部分的話，說實在的，我們要隨時對國人提出警惕，像這次的軍演活動，讓本席很擔心，昨天我也探討這個部分，今天也探討這個部分，因為國人的心態，讓我們比較擔心，對這整個是鬆懈的，所以國防部、國安單位如果有機會，還是要跟國人強調，每一次的軍演其實臺灣都有很大的……"],["顧部長立雄：我們希望國人有所警惕。另外，我們認為他們的海警結合海軍從事共同的演習或者操演，事實上，這樣的行為不能夠單純的將它的海警認為是執法的一環，應該認為屬於軍事演練的一環。"],["羅委員美玲：以上，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅美玲委員。部長、各位，請回。"],["主席（羅委員美玲代）：接下來有請王定宇召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","洪申翰","林憶君","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林岱樺","鍾佳濱","馬文君","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","徐富癸","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉建國"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00001"}}}