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00:00:58,867\n這個是一個local的數據臺灣民眾常見的精神疾患的分佈大概憂鬱、焦慮是在30到45歲盛行率最高平均每四位就有一位青壯世代也從我們就診的紀錄看到說精神醫療的使用提升從105到111年7.4%增加到9.5%成長率達到27%\n\n4\n00:01:05,293 --> 00:01:23,242\n那這群人其實跟我們勞動部所關心的族群非常重疊的就是525萬人的青壯世代所以響應今年這種職場心理健康許多團體我等一下會舉很多團體做出來的問卷有一個臺灣心理健康聯盟\n\n5\n00:01:24,162 --> 00:01:51,065\n發布的職場心理健康高達76%的比例認為工作壓力危害心理健康也呼籲希望可以倡導彈性工時給這樣職場的爸媽還有輕職假等等的議題這些都超過9成的民眾支持我相信部長跟我一樣應該都在這76%裡面嘛對是不是工作壓力有點危害到心理健康是吧好那我想問一下你知道貴部\n\n6\n00:01:52,326 --> 00:02:04,392\n衛福部他有推出一個15到45歲他今年也是因應這個主題所以他推出了一個擴大心理健康支持方案免費有三次的心理健康諮詢\n\n7\n00:02:05,919 --> 00:02:24,399\n你知道勞動部為我們廣大的勞工在職場的心理健康比如說職場霸凌等等做了什麼具體的措施嗎?我們在重建我們的預防重建中心每年可以提供6次喔6次的心理健康服務而且我們還在臉書幫他宣傳\n\n8\n00:02:26,982 --> 00:02:44,919\n你說幫衛福部宣傳?幫這個?那是我們自己的這個是從2015年開始做擴大跟67家心理諮商來合作而且我覺得做比衛福更多次因為你是每年六次他是一生三次那你知道這個方案執行的效果怎麼樣嗎?\n\n9\n00:02:46,943 --> 00:02:53,605\n需要宣傳再更多推廣因為確實從111年到112年才服務622人次太少了沒有比較沒有傷害我放兩個slide給你看這邊是另外一個關於臺灣職場心理健康問卷的調查結果\n\n10\n00:03:07,389 --> 00:03:33,247\n他發現跟這個2023亞洲心理健康指數報告發現有82%的員工有心理健康風險裡面高度的大概是35%中度大概是47%那在台灣跟亞洲的數據有點像就像我剛剛跟你講的75%的填達者都認為工作壓力對於身心健康有負面的影響所以我們簡單算一下全國如果1200萬勞工\n\n11\n00:03:36,531 --> 00:03:44,729\n75%是900萬可能會有心理諮詢的需求但是我們退一步講好一半就好了所以可能是600萬好我們來看你的數據\n\n12\n00:03:46,461 --> 00:04:03,105\n進三年你是編的預算還用不到預算當然我覺得你編的預算也不夠蠻少的但是你編這樣子的錢還用不到一半多一點點那你從進三年看111年239人第二年383到目前923\n\n13\n00:04:09,366 --> 00:04:10,587\n請勞動部長：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議\n\n14\n00:04:39,426 --> 00:04:59,627\n青少年現在自殺率開始升高是不到一年他們已經服務超過兩萬九千人然後還轉介高風險就醫喔受益者超過一萬人所以他們還從裡面抓到了高風險的趕快轉到醫療機構去所以因為辦得太好這也是少數衛福部評價96%滿意度的計畫\n\n15\n00:05:03,314 --> 00:05:20,699\n滿意度好到他們擴大到45歲我也很希望勞動部可以推出一個令人有感的計畫而且你們是從2015年開始喔衛福部的族群TA這麼廣衛福部裡面有老人、有病人、有三高的人大家知道要去用\n\n16\n00:05:22,060 --> 00:05:45,821\n勞動部的職場心理健康他的族群就是勞動部這麼簡單結果勞動部的人居然不知道也沒有人去用這件事情要不要跟他們學習一下當然當然我上任以後我有發現這個事所以我先請同仁幫忙在勞動部自己的官網、臉書也幫忙宣傳這個活動因為我想主要是\n\n17\n00:05:47,042 --> 00:06:14,563\n對所謂勞工職場的所謂心理復健這個定義我想我們也不要太拘泥啦因為我們一直都會拘泥說他一定要定義他是因為工作我才能來去讓他做心理職場對你知道嗎失業的人是不能用你們的服務的失業對他現在必須要有一個工作是啊所以我覺得這是一個應該要改進的問題好我可以說一下如果我們能夠像衛福部那麼的全面性因為他可能是健保\n\n18\n00:06:15,484 --> 00:06:18,785\n我希望你可以重視今年全世界很重視的職場心理健康我也具體分享一下我們來試用這個計畫的經驗我10月初請我們辦公室同仁打到職災預防重建中心的北部勞工健康辦公室10月初打\n\n19\n00:06:44,170 --> 00:07:08,152\n他首先告訴我們說你要先經過我們一個評估評估完才可以知道說你符不符合補助這6次諮商好10月初打喔他說但是10月的評估已經全部滿了所以他給我一個時間是11月中到11月底中間的一個這個平日的早上然後就說好那你就這個時間過來評估我們評估完以後告訴你可不可以獲得後面的6次諮商\n\n20\n00:07:09,821 --> 00:07:33,280\n那評估再評估剛剛已經講到這個心理健康是一個比較緊急的狀態你從10月初就已經約到一個11月中的時間又是規定在一個上班時間從我們之前軍人、警察自殺你就已經知道說你就不想要被長官知道當然我可以合法的說我這個預約勞動部的服務要去做心理諮商但是\n\n21\n00:07:34,461 --> 00:07:47,451\n軍人就是有這個問題警察有這個問題所以他們才做不好那他們不敢跟老闆講的話你永遠這個評估都做不到的不但預約不到很難預約而且是一個很不友善的事件這個也請你們回去檢討好嗎好下一個\n\n22\n00:07:52,830 --> 00:08:09,251\n想要講一下因為今天有一題是講到非典非典型工作者那你們呢是不是有宣示4年要投入160億去協助這些非典的工作者轉正職因為他們已經大規模的突破80萬創新高了嘛\n\n23\n00:08:12,566 --> 00:08:36,244\n是好那這邊是我幫你找出來114年你們勞動部編列的預算這個勞動部跟你們所屬的機關的公務預算還有所屬的特種基金所禁用的非典型的承染人力在人數上還有在支出的經費上你猜增加多少\n\n24\n00:08:38,581 --> 00:08:44,512\n人數是增加35人喔經費呢是增加了9000多萬9000多萬好比較好笑的是\n\n25\n00:08:49,614 --> 00:09:10,190\n其中這個就業安定基金啊就業安定基金是最大幅度禁用非典型勞工承攬34人而且他是就業安定基金你套在安定這兩個字不是很荒謬嗎你就業安定然後你去找非典型勞工所以他光是在就業安定基金就增加了8000多萬\n\n26\n00:09:12,231 --> 00:09:25,905\n那你一方面花了這麼多錢說要降低非典型勞工協助他們轉正職一方面多編了這些錢九千多萬去增加你們勞動部自己的非典型承攬的人力你覺得這樣合理嗎我們確實真的這方面是因為我們組織內部\n\n27\n00:09:34,685 --> 00:10:00,408\n人總在這邊我們確實就是在我們的組織內部因為我們正式人員缺乏所以就都大量禁用承攬那因為我們的這個在預算緣合上面有控管我們正式緣合其實被合組的很少因為你現在也要督導每一個部門減少他們的非典勞工如果你自己都做不到那別人的我承認我們是非典大戶\n\n28\n00:10:02,386 --> 00:10:21,146\n因為委員就是我們整個政府機關都有這樣的困境就是我們在正式原額的都有被控管因為政府精簡的需要所以你去督導別人的時候別人跟你講現在一模一樣的理由你應該要怎麼辦呢是我們應該要來跟我們要跟上級長官反映啦我們要跟行政院反映這個問題那你編這麼多錢\n\n29\n00:10:24,289 --> 00:10:46,486\n這兩邊是互相抵觸的,我希望你要不要提出一個月內提出一個檢討。我們應該是這樣,我們有在,剛剛之前我也都推詢,就是包括承攬人力的薪水提升啦,這個我們是可以馬上做的,就是我們讓承攬的人力也能讓他符合所有的勞動條件,因為承攬有時候也未必是那麼\n\n30\n00:10:47,327 --> 00:10:47,467\n邀請勞動部部長\n\n31\n00:11:02,932 --> 00:11:27,331\n改善承攬的勞動條件我也會很想要知道說你未來要怎麼協助這個越來越多你們自己勞動部裡面的這些非典勞工轉正職你們有什麼具體的做法或者目標策略非典勞工轉正職就牽涉到行政院的整個政府的這個預算源額的問題這個是整個我們要必須跟行政院反應澄清\n\n32\n00:11:27,751 --> 00:11:27,931\n陳婉嫻委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n283\t12099\t委員發言謝謝主席謝謝各位委員、官員我也想請何部長請何部長\n16212\t41071\t部長好你好今年的10月10號叫做世界心理健康日那今年的主題是職場心理健康所以全世界的國家都發現說在疫情後啊當然疫情的時候就感到大家的情緒壓力是增加的可是疫情後都紛紛要返回職場那現在也有很多空缺都還補不上所以就顯示\n42052\t58867\t這個是一個local的數據臺灣民眾常見的精神疾患的分佈大概憂鬱、焦慮是在30到45歲盛行率最高平均每四位就有一位青壯世代也從我們就診的紀錄看到說精神醫療的使用提升從105到111年7.4%增加到9.5%成長率達到27%\n65293\t83242\t那這群人其實跟我們勞動部所關心的族群非常重疊的就是525萬人的青壯世代所以響應今年這種職場心理健康許多團體我等一下會舉很多團體做出來的問卷有一個臺灣心理健康聯盟\n84162\t111065\t發布的職場心理健康高達76%的比例認為工作壓力危害心理健康也呼籲希望可以倡導彈性工時給這樣職場的爸媽還有輕職假等等的議題這些都超過9成的民眾支持我相信部長跟我一樣應該都在這76%裡面嘛對是不是工作壓力有點危害到心理健康是吧好那我想問一下你知道貴部\n112326\t124392\t衛福部他有推出一個15到45歲他今年也是因應這個主題所以他推出了一個擴大心理健康支持方案免費有三次的心理健康諮詢\n125919\t144399\t你知道勞動部為我們廣大的勞工在職場的心理健康比如說職場霸凌等等做了什麼具體的措施嗎?我們在重建我們的預防重建中心每年可以提供6次喔6次的心理健康服務而且我們還在臉書幫他宣傳\n146982\t164919\t你說幫衛福部宣傳?幫這個?那是我們自己的這個是從2015年開始做擴大跟67家心理諮商來合作而且我覺得做比衛福更多次因為你是每年六次他是一生三次那你知道這個方案執行的效果怎麼樣嗎?\n166943\t173605\t需要宣傳再更多推廣因為確實從111年到112年才服務622人次太少了沒有比較沒有傷害我放兩個slide給你看這邊是另外一個關於臺灣職場心理健康問卷的調查結果\n187389\t213247\t他發現跟這個2023亞洲心理健康指數報告發現有82%的員工有心理健康風險裡面高度的大概是35%中度大概是47%那在台灣跟亞洲的數據有點像就像我剛剛跟你講的75%的填達者都認為工作壓力對於身心健康有負面的影響所以我們簡單算一下全國如果1200萬勞工\n216531\t224729\t75%是900萬可能會有心理諮詢的需求但是我們退一步講好一半就好了所以可能是600萬好我們來看你的數據\n226461\t243105\t進三年你是編的預算還用不到預算當然我覺得你編的預算也不夠蠻少的但是你編這樣子的錢還用不到一半多一點點那你從進三年看111年239人第二年383到目前923\n249366\t250587\t請勞動部長：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議\n279426\t299627\t青少年現在自殺率開始升高是不到一年他們已經服務超過兩萬九千人然後還轉介高風險就醫喔受益者超過一萬人所以他們還從裡面抓到了高風險的趕快轉到醫療機構去所以因為辦得太好這也是少數衛福部評價96%滿意度的計畫\n303314\t320699\t滿意度好到他們擴大到45歲我也很希望勞動部可以推出一個令人有感的計畫而且你們是從2015年開始喔衛福部的族群TA這麼廣衛福部裡面有老人、有病人、有三高的人大家知道要去用\n322060\t345821\t勞動部的職場心理健康他的族群就是勞動部這麼簡單結果勞動部的人居然不知道也沒有人去用這件事情要不要跟他們學習一下當然當然我上任以後我有發現這個事所以我先請同仁幫忙在勞動部自己的官網、臉書也幫忙宣傳這個活動因為我想主要是\n347042\t374563\t對所謂勞工職場的所謂心理復健這個定義我想我們也不要太拘泥啦因為我們一直都會拘泥說他一定要定義他是因為工作我才能來去讓他做心理職場對你知道嗎失業的人是不能用你們的服務的失業對他現在必須要有一個工作是啊所以我覺得這是一個應該要改進的問題好我可以說一下如果我們能夠像衛福部那麼的全面性因為他可能是健保\n375484\t378785\t我希望你可以重視今年全世界很重視的職場心理健康我也具體分享一下我們來試用這個計畫的經驗我10月初請我們辦公室同仁打到職災預防重建中心的北部勞工健康辦公室10月初打\n404170\t428152\t他首先告訴我們說你要先經過我們一個評估評估完才可以知道說你符不符合補助這6次諮商好10月初打喔他說但是10月的評估已經全部滿了所以他給我一個時間是11月中到11月底中間的一個這個平日的早上然後就說好那你就這個時間過來評估我們評估完以後告訴你可不可以獲得後面的6次諮商\n429821\t453280\t那評估再評估剛剛已經講到這個心理健康是一個比較緊急的狀態你從10月初就已經約到一個11月中的時間又是規定在一個上班時間從我們之前軍人、警察自殺你就已經知道說你就不想要被長官知道當然我可以合法的說我這個預約勞動部的服務要去做心理諮商但是\n454461\t467451\t軍人就是有這個問題警察有這個問題所以他們才做不好那他們不敢跟老闆講的話你永遠這個評估都做不到的不但預約不到很難預約而且是一個很不友善的事件這個也請你們回去檢討好嗎好下一個\n472830\t489251\t想要講一下因為今天有一題是講到非典非典型工作者那你們呢是不是有宣示4年要投入160億去協助這些非典的工作者轉正職因為他們已經大規模的突破80萬創新高了嘛\n492566\t516244\t是好那這邊是我幫你找出來114年你們勞動部編列的預算這個勞動部跟你們所屬的機關的公務預算還有所屬的特種基金所禁用的非典型的承染人力在人數上還有在支出的經費上你猜增加多少\n518581\t524512\t人數是增加35人喔經費呢是增加了9000多萬9000多萬好 比較好笑的是\n529614\t550190\t其中這個就業安定基金啊就業安定基金是最大幅度禁用非典型勞工承攬34人而且他是就業安定基金你套在安定這兩個字不是很荒謬嗎你就業安定然後你去找非典型勞工所以他光是在就業安定基金就增加了8000多萬\n552231\t565905\t那你一方面花了這麼多錢說要降低非典型勞工協助他們轉正職一方面多編了這些錢九千多萬去增加你們勞動部自己的非典型承攬的人力你覺得這樣合理嗎我們確實真的這方面是因為我們組織內部\n574685\t600408\t人總在這邊我們確實就是在我們的組織內部因為我們正式人員缺乏所以就都大量禁用承攬那因為我們的這個在預算緣合上面有控管我們正式緣合其實被合組的很少因為你現在也要督導每一個部門減少他們的非典勞工如果你自己都做不到那別人的我承認我們是非典大戶\n602386\t621146\t因為委員就是我們整個政府機關都有這樣的困境就是我們在正式原額的都有被控管因為政府精簡的需要所以你去督導別人的時候別人跟你講現在一模一樣的理由你應該要怎麼辦呢是我們應該要來跟我們要跟上級長官反映啦我們要跟行政院反映這個問題那你編這麼多錢\n624289\t646486\t這兩邊是互相抵觸的,我希望你要不要提出一個月內提出一個檢討。我們應該是這樣,我們有在,剛剛之前我也都推詢,就是包括承攬人力的薪水提升啦,這個我們是可以馬上做的,就是我們讓承攬的人力也能讓他符合所有的勞動條件,因為承攬有時候也未必是那麼\n647327\t647467\t邀請勞動部部長\n662932\t687331\t改善承攬的勞動條件我也會很想要知道說你未來要怎麼協助這個越來越多你們自己勞動部裡面的這些非典勞工轉正職你們有什麼具體的做法或者目標策略非典勞工轉正職就牽涉到行政院的整個政府的這個預算源額的問題這個是整個我們要必須跟行政院反應澄清\n687751\t687931\t陳婉嫻委員發言\n","txt":"委員發言謝謝主席謝謝各位委員、官員我也想請何部長請何部長\n部長好你好今年的10月10號叫做世界心理健康日那今年的主題是職場心理健康所以全世界的國家都發現說在疫情後啊當然疫情的時候就感到大家的情緒壓力是增加的可是疫情後都紛紛要返回職場那現在也有很多空缺都還補不上所以就顯示\n這個是一個local的數據臺灣民眾常見的精神疾患的分佈大概憂鬱、焦慮是在30到45歲盛行率最高平均每四位就有一位青壯世代也從我們就診的紀錄看到說精神醫療的使用提升從105到111年7.4%增加到9.5%成長率達到27%\n那這群人其實跟我們勞動部所關心的族群非常重疊的就是525萬人的青壯世代所以響應今年這種職場心理健康許多團體我等一下會舉很多團體做出來的問卷有一個臺灣心理健康聯盟\n發布的職場心理健康高達76%的比例認為工作壓力危害心理健康也呼籲希望可以倡導彈性工時給這樣職場的爸媽還有輕職假等等的議題這些都超過9成的民眾支持我相信部長跟我一樣應該都在這76%裡面嘛對是不是工作壓力有點危害到心理健康是吧好那我想問一下你知道貴部\n衛福部他有推出一個15到45歲他今年也是因應這個主題所以他推出了一個擴大心理健康支持方案免費有三次的心理健康諮詢\n你知道勞動部為我們廣大的勞工在職場的心理健康比如說職場霸凌等等做了什麼具體的措施嗎?我們在重建我們的預防重建中心每年可以提供6次喔6次的心理健康服務而且我們還在臉書幫他宣傳\n你說幫衛福部宣傳?幫這個?那是我們自己的這個是從2015年開始做擴大跟67家心理諮商來合作而且我覺得做比衛福更多次因為你是每年六次他是一生三次那你知道這個方案執行的效果怎麼樣嗎?\n需要宣傳再更多推廣因為確實從111年到112年才服務622人次太少了沒有比較沒有傷害我放兩個slide給你看這邊是另外一個關於臺灣職場心理健康問卷的調查結果\n他發現跟這個2023亞洲心理健康指數報告發現有82%的員工有心理健康風險裡面高度的大概是35%中度大概是47%那在台灣跟亞洲的數據有點像就像我剛剛跟你講的75%的填達者都認為工作壓力對於身心健康有負面的影響所以我們簡單算一下全國如果1200萬勞工\n75%是900萬可能會有心理諮詢的需求但是我們退一步講好一半就好了所以可能是600萬好我們來看你的數據\n進三年你是編的預算還用不到預算當然我覺得你編的預算也不夠蠻少的但是你編這樣子的錢還用不到一半多一點點那你從進三年看111年239人第二年383到目前923\n請勞動部長：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議\n青少年現在自殺率開始升高是不到一年他們已經服務超過兩萬九千人然後還轉介高風險就醫喔受益者超過一萬人所以他們還從裡面抓到了高風險的趕快轉到醫療機構去所以因為辦得太好這也是少數衛福部評價96%滿意度的計畫\n滿意度好到他們擴大到45歲我也很希望勞動部可以推出一個令人有感的計畫而且你們是從2015年開始喔衛福部的族群TA這麼廣衛福部裡面有老人、有病人、有三高的人大家知道要去用\n勞動部的職場心理健康他的族群就是勞動部這麼簡單結果勞動部的人居然不知道也沒有人去用這件事情要不要跟他們學習一下當然當然我上任以後我有發現這個事所以我先請同仁幫忙在勞動部自己的官網、臉書也幫忙宣傳這個活動因為我想主要是\n對所謂勞工職場的所謂心理復健這個定義我想我們也不要太拘泥啦因為我們一直都會拘泥說他一定要定義他是因為工作我才能來去讓他做心理職場對你知道嗎失業的人是不能用你們的服務的失業對他現在必須要有一個工作是啊所以我覺得這是一個應該要改進的問題好我可以說一下如果我們能夠像衛福部那麼的全面性因為他可能是健保\n我希望你可以重視今年全世界很重視的職場心理健康我也具體分享一下我們來試用這個計畫的經驗我10月初請我們辦公室同仁打到職災預防重建中心的北部勞工健康辦公室10月初打\n他首先告訴我們說你要先經過我們一個評估評估完才可以知道說你符不符合補助這6次諮商好10月初打喔他說但是10月的評估已經全部滿了所以他給我一個時間是11月中到11月底中間的一個這個平日的早上然後就說好那你就這個時間過來評估我們評估完以後告訴你可不可以獲得後面的6次諮商\n那評估再評估剛剛已經講到這個心理健康是一個比較緊急的狀態你從10月初就已經約到一個11月中的時間又是規定在一個上班時間從我們之前軍人、警察自殺你就已經知道說你就不想要被長官知道當然我可以合法的說我這個預約勞動部的服務要去做心理諮商但是\n軍人就是有這個問題警察有這個問題所以他們才做不好那他們不敢跟老闆講的話你永遠這個評估都做不到的不但預約不到很難預約而且是一個很不友善的事件這個也請你們回去檢討好嗎好下一個\n想要講一下因為今天有一題是講到非典非典型工作者那你們呢是不是有宣示4年要投入160億去協助這些非典的工作者轉正職因為他們已經大規模的突破80萬創新高了嘛\n是好那這邊是我幫你找出來114年你們勞動部編列的預算這個勞動部跟你們所屬的機關的公務預算還有所屬的特種基金所禁用的非典型的承染人力在人數上還有在支出的經費上你猜增加多少\n人數是增加35人喔經費呢是增加了9000多萬9000多萬好 比較好笑的是\n其中這個就業安定基金啊就業安定基金是最大幅度禁用非典型勞工承攬34人而且他是就業安定基金你套在安定這兩個字不是很荒謬嗎你就業安定然後你去找非典型勞工所以他光是在就業安定基金就增加了8000多萬\n那你一方面花了這麼多錢說要降低非典型勞工協助他們轉正職一方面多編了這些錢九千多萬去增加你們勞動部自己的非典型承攬的人力你覺得這樣合理嗎我們確實真的這方面是因為我們組織內部\n人總在這邊我們確實就是在我們的組織內部因為我們正式人員缺乏所以就都大量禁用承攬那因為我們的這個在預算緣合上面有控管我們正式緣合其實被合組的很少因為你現在也要督導每一個部門減少他們的非典勞工如果你自己都做不到那別人的我承認我們是非典大戶\n因為委員就是我們整個政府機關都有這樣的困境就是我們在正式原額的都有被控管因為政府精簡的需要所以你去督導別人的時候別人跟你講現在一模一樣的理由你應該要怎麼辦呢是我們應該要來跟我們要跟上級長官反映啦我們要跟行政院反映這個問題那你編這麼多錢\n這兩邊是互相抵觸的,我希望你要不要提出一個月內提出一個檢討。我們應該是這樣,我們有在,剛剛之前我也都推詢,就是包括承攬人力的薪水提升啦,這個我們是可以馬上做的,就是我們讓承攬的人力也能讓他符合所有的勞動條件,因為承攬有時候也未必是那麼\n邀請勞動部部長\n改善承攬的勞動條件我也會很想要知道說你未來要怎麼協助這個越來越多你們自己勞動部裡面的這些非典勞工轉正職你們有什麼具體的做法或者目標策略非典勞工轉正職就牽涉到行政院的整個政府的這個預算源額的問題這個是整個我們要必須跟行政院反應澄清\n陳婉嫻委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.283 --> 00:12.099\n委員發言謝謝主席謝謝各位委員、官員我也想請何部長請何部長\n\n00:16.212 --> 00:41.071\n部長好你好今年的10月10號叫做世界心理健康日那今年的主題是職場心理健康所以全世界的國家都發現說在疫情後啊當然疫情的時候就感到大家的情緒壓力是增加的可是疫情後都紛紛要返回職場那現在也有很多空缺都還補不上所以就顯示\n\n00:42.052 --> 00:58.867\n這個是一個local的數據臺灣民眾常見的精神疾患的分佈大概憂鬱、焦慮是在30到45歲盛行率最高平均每四位就有一位青壯世代也從我們就診的紀錄看到說精神醫療的使用提升從105到111年7.4%增加到9.5%成長率達到27%\n\n01:05.293 --> 01:23.242\n那這群人其實跟我們勞動部所關心的族群非常重疊的就是525萬人的青壯世代所以響應今年這種職場心理健康許多團體我等一下會舉很多團體做出來的問卷有一個臺灣心理健康聯盟\n\n01:24.162 --> 01:51.065\n發布的職場心理健康高達76%的比例認為工作壓力危害心理健康也呼籲希望可以倡導彈性工時給這樣職場的爸媽還有輕職假等等的議題這些都超過9成的民眾支持我相信部長跟我一樣應該都在這76%裡面嘛對是不是工作壓力有點危害到心理健康是吧好那我想問一下你知道貴部\n\n01:52.326 --> 02:04.392\n衛福部他有推出一個15到45歲他今年也是因應這個主題所以他推出了一個擴大心理健康支持方案免費有三次的心理健康諮詢\n\n02:05.919 --> 02:24.399\n你知道勞動部為我們廣大的勞工在職場的心理健康比如說職場霸凌等等做了什麼具體的措施嗎?我們在重建我們的預防重建中心每年可以提供6次喔6次的心理健康服務而且我們還在臉書幫他宣傳\n\n02:26.982 --> 02:44.919\n你說幫衛福部宣傳?幫這個?那是我們自己的這個是從2015年開始做擴大跟67家心理諮商來合作而且我覺得做比衛福更多次因為你是每年六次他是一生三次那你知道這個方案執行的效果怎麼樣嗎?\n\n02:46.943 --> 02:53.605\n需要宣傳再更多推廣因為確實從111年到112年才服務622人次太少了沒有比較沒有傷害我放兩個slide給你看這邊是另外一個關於臺灣職場心理健康問卷的調查結果\n\n03:07.389 --> 03:33.247\n他發現跟這個2023亞洲心理健康指數報告發現有82%的員工有心理健康風險裡面高度的大概是35%中度大概是47%那在台灣跟亞洲的數據有點像就像我剛剛跟你講的75%的填達者都認為工作壓力對於身心健康有負面的影響所以我們簡單算一下全國如果1200萬勞工\n\n03:36.531 --> 03:44.729\n75%是900萬可能會有心理諮詢的需求但是我們退一步講好一半就好了所以可能是600萬好我們來看你的數據\n\n03:46.461 --> 04:03.105\n進三年你是編的預算還用不到預算當然我覺得你編的預算也不夠蠻少的但是你編這樣子的錢還用不到一半多一點點那你從進三年看111年239人第二年383到目前923\n\n04:09.366 --> 04:10.587\n請勞動部長：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議\n\n04:39.426 --> 04:59.627\n青少年現在自殺率開始升高是不到一年他們已經服務超過兩萬九千人然後還轉介高風險就醫喔受益者超過一萬人所以他們還從裡面抓到了高風險的趕快轉到醫療機構去所以因為辦得太好這也是少數衛福部評價96%滿意度的計畫\n\n05:03.314 --> 05:20.699\n滿意度好到他們擴大到45歲我也很希望勞動部可以推出一個令人有感的計畫而且你們是從2015年開始喔衛福部的族群TA這麼廣衛福部裡面有老人、有病人、有三高的人大家知道要去用\n\n05:22.060 --> 05:45.821\n勞動部的職場心理健康他的族群就是勞動部這麼簡單結果勞動部的人居然不知道也沒有人去用這件事情要不要跟他們學習一下當然當然我上任以後我有發現這個事所以我先請同仁幫忙在勞動部自己的官網、臉書也幫忙宣傳這個活動因為我想主要是\n\n05:47.042 --> 06:14.563\n對所謂勞工職場的所謂心理復健這個定義我想我們也不要太拘泥啦因為我們一直都會拘泥說他一定要定義他是因為工作我才能來去讓他做心理職場對你知道嗎失業的人是不能用你們的服務的失業對他現在必須要有一個工作是啊所以我覺得這是一個應該要改進的問題好我可以說一下如果我們能夠像衛福部那麼的全面性因為他可能是健保\n\n06:15.484 --> 06:18.785\n我希望你可以重視今年全世界很重視的職場心理健康我也具體分享一下我們來試用這個計畫的經驗我10月初請我們辦公室同仁打到職災預防重建中心的北部勞工健康辦公室10月初打\n\n06:44.170 --> 07:08.152\n他首先告訴我們說你要先經過我們一個評估評估完才可以知道說你符不符合補助這6次諮商好10月初打喔他說但是10月的評估已經全部滿了所以他給我一個時間是11月中到11月底中間的一個這個平日的早上然後就說好那你就這個時間過來評估我們評估完以後告訴你可不可以獲得後面的6次諮商\n\n07:09.821 --> 07:33.280\n那評估再評估剛剛已經講到這個心理健康是一個比較緊急的狀態你從10月初就已經約到一個11月中的時間又是規定在一個上班時間從我們之前軍人、警察自殺你就已經知道說你就不想要被長官知道當然我可以合法的說我這個預約勞動部的服務要去做心理諮商但是\n\n07:34.461 --> 07:47.451\n軍人就是有這個問題警察有這個問題所以他們才做不好那他們不敢跟老闆講的話你永遠這個評估都做不到的不但預約不到很難預約而且是一個很不友善的事件這個也請你們回去檢討好嗎好下一個\n\n07:52.830 --> 08:09.251\n想要講一下因為今天有一題是講到非典非典型工作者那你們呢是不是有宣示4年要投入160億去協助這些非典的工作者轉正職因為他們已經大規模的突破80萬創新高了嘛\n\n08:12.566 --> 08:36.244\n是好那這邊是我幫你找出來114年你們勞動部編列的預算這個勞動部跟你們所屬的機關的公務預算還有所屬的特種基金所禁用的非典型的承染人力在人數上還有在支出的經費上你猜增加多少\n\n08:38.581 --> 08:44.512\n人數是增加35人喔經費呢是增加了9000多萬9000多萬好比較好笑的是\n\n08:49.614 --> 09:10.190\n其中這個就業安定基金啊就業安定基金是最大幅度禁用非典型勞工承攬34人而且他是就業安定基金你套在安定這兩個字不是很荒謬嗎你就業安定然後你去找非典型勞工所以他光是在就業安定基金就增加了8000多萬\n\n09:12.231 --> 09:25.905\n那你一方面花了這麼多錢說要降低非典型勞工協助他們轉正職一方面多編了這些錢九千多萬去增加你們勞動部自己的非典型承攬的人力你覺得這樣合理嗎我們確實真的這方面是因為我們組織內部\n\n09:34.685 --> 10:00.408\n人總在這邊我們確實就是在我們的組織內部因為我們正式人員缺乏所以就都大量禁用承攬那因為我們的這個在預算緣合上面有控管我們正式緣合其實被合組的很少因為你現在也要督導每一個部門減少他們的非典勞工如果你自己都做不到那別人的我承認我們是非典大戶\n\n10:02.386 --> 10:21.146\n因為委員就是我們整個政府機關都有這樣的困境就是我們在正式原額的都有被控管因為政府精簡的需要所以你去督導別人的時候別人跟你講現在一模一樣的理由你應該要怎麼辦呢是我們應該要來跟我們要跟上級長官反映啦我們要跟行政院反映這個問題那你編這麼多錢\n\n10:24.289 --> 10:46.486\n這兩邊是互相抵觸的,我希望你要不要提出一個月內提出一個檢討。我們應該是這樣,我們有在,剛剛之前我也都推詢,就是包括承攬人力的薪水提升啦,這個我們是可以馬上做的,就是我們讓承攬的人力也能讓他符合所有的勞動條件,因為承攬有時候也未必是那麼\n\n10:47.327 --> 10:47.467\n邀請勞動部部長\n\n11:02.932 --> 11:27.331\n改善承攬的勞動條件我也會很想要知道說你未來要怎麼協助這個越來越多你們自己勞動部裡面的這些非典勞工轉正職你們有什麼具體的做法或者目標策略非典勞工轉正職就牽涉到行政院的整個政府的這個預算源額的問題這個是整個我們要必須跟行政院反應澄清\n\n11:27.751 --> 11:27.931\n陳婉嫻委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.283,"end":12.099,"text":"委員發言謝謝主席謝謝各位委員、官員我也想請何部長請何部長"},{"start":16.212,"end":41.071,"text":"部長好你好今年的10月10號叫做世界心理健康日那今年的主題是職場心理健康所以全世界的國家都發現說在疫情後啊當然疫情的時候就感到大家的情緒壓力是增加的可是疫情後都紛紛要返回職場那現在也有很多空缺都還補不上所以就顯示"},{"start":42.052,"end":58.867,"text":"這個是一個local的數據臺灣民眾常見的精神疾患的分佈大概憂鬱、焦慮是在30到45歲盛行率最高平均每四位就有一位青壯世代也從我們就診的紀錄看到說精神醫療的使用提升從105到111年7.4%增加到9.5%成長率達到27%"},{"start":65.293,"end":83.242,"text":"那這群人其實跟我們勞動部所關心的族群非常重疊的就是525萬人的青壯世代所以響應今年這種職場心理健康許多團體我等一下會舉很多團體做出來的問卷有一個臺灣心理健康聯盟"},{"start":84.162,"end":111.065,"text":"發布的職場心理健康高達76%的比例認為工作壓力危害心理健康也呼籲希望可以倡導彈性工時給這樣職場的爸媽還有輕職假等等的議題這些都超過9成的民眾支持我相信部長跟我一樣應該都在這76%裡面嘛對是不是工作壓力有點危害到心理健康是吧好那我想問一下你知道貴部"},{"start":112.326,"end":124.392,"text":"衛福部他有推出一個15到45歲他今年也是因應這個主題所以他推出了一個擴大心理健康支持方案免費有三次的心理健康諮詢"},{"start":125.919,"end":144.399,"text":"你知道勞動部為我們廣大的勞工在職場的心理健康比如說職場霸凌等等做了什麼具體的措施嗎?我們在重建我們的預防重建中心每年可以提供6次喔6次的心理健康服務而且我們還在臉書幫他宣傳"},{"start":146.982,"end":164.919,"text":"你說幫衛福部宣傳?幫這個?那是我們自己的這個是從2015年開始做擴大跟67家心理諮商來合作而且我覺得做比衛福更多次因為你是每年六次他是一生三次那你知道這個方案執行的效果怎麼樣嗎?"},{"start":166.943,"end":173.605,"text":"需要宣傳再更多推廣因為確實從111年到112年才服務622人次太少了沒有比較沒有傷害我放兩個slide給你看這邊是另外一個關於臺灣職場心理健康問卷的調查結果"},{"start":187.389,"end":213.247,"text":"他發現跟這個2023亞洲心理健康指數報告發現有82%的員工有心理健康風險裡面高度的大概是35%中度大概是47%那在台灣跟亞洲的數據有點像就像我剛剛跟你講的75%的填達者都認為工作壓力對於身心健康有負面的影響所以我們簡單算一下全國如果1200萬勞工"},{"start":216.531,"end":224.729,"text":"75%是900萬可能會有心理諮詢的需求但是我們退一步講好一半就好了所以可能是600萬好我們來看你的數據"},{"start":226.461,"end":243.105,"text":"進三年你是編的預算還用不到預算當然我覺得你編的預算也不夠蠻少的但是你編這樣子的錢還用不到一半多一點點那你從進三年看111年239人第二年383到目前923"},{"start":249.366,"end":250.587,"text":"請勞動部長：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議"},{"start":279.426,"end":299.627,"text":"青少年現在自殺率開始升高是不到一年他們已經服務超過兩萬九千人然後還轉介高風險就醫喔受益者超過一萬人所以他們還從裡面抓到了高風險的趕快轉到醫療機構去所以因為辦得太好這也是少數衛福部評價96%滿意度的計畫"},{"start":303.314,"end":320.699,"text":"滿意度好到他們擴大到45歲我也很希望勞動部可以推出一個令人有感的計畫而且你們是從2015年開始喔衛福部的族群TA這麼廣衛福部裡面有老人、有病人、有三高的人大家知道要去用"},{"start":322.06,"end":345.821,"text":"勞動部的職場心理健康他的族群就是勞動部這麼簡單結果勞動部的人居然不知道也沒有人去用這件事情要不要跟他們學習一下當然當然我上任以後我有發現這個事所以我先請同仁幫忙在勞動部自己的官網、臉書也幫忙宣傳這個活動因為我想主要是"},{"start":347.042,"end":374.563,"text":"對所謂勞工職場的所謂心理復健這個定義我想我們也不要太拘泥啦因為我們一直都會拘泥說他一定要定義他是因為工作我才能來去讓他做心理職場對你知道嗎失業的人是不能用你們的服務的失業對他現在必須要有一個工作是啊所以我覺得這是一個應該要改進的問題好我可以說一下如果我們能夠像衛福部那麼的全面性因為他可能是健保"},{"start":375.484,"end":378.785,"text":"我希望你可以重視今年全世界很重視的職場心理健康我也具體分享一下我們來試用這個計畫的經驗我10月初請我們辦公室同仁打到職災預防重建中心的北部勞工健康辦公室10月初打"},{"start":404.17,"end":428.152,"text":"他首先告訴我們說你要先經過我們一個評估評估完才可以知道說你符不符合補助這6次諮商好10月初打喔他說但是10月的評估已經全部滿了所以他給我一個時間是11月中到11月底中間的一個這個平日的早上然後就說好那你就這個時間過來評估我們評估完以後告訴你可不可以獲得後面的6次諮商"},{"start":429.821,"end":453.28,"text":"那評估再評估剛剛已經講到這個心理健康是一個比較緊急的狀態你從10月初就已經約到一個11月中的時間又是規定在一個上班時間從我們之前軍人、警察自殺你就已經知道說你就不想要被長官知道當然我可以合法的說我這個預約勞動部的服務要去做心理諮商但是"},{"start":454.461,"end":467.451,"text":"軍人就是有這個問題警察有這個問題所以他們才做不好那他們不敢跟老闆講的話你永遠這個評估都做不到的不但預約不到很難預約而且是一個很不友善的事件這個也請你們回去檢討好嗎好下一個"},{"start":472.83,"end":489.251,"text":"想要講一下因為今天有一題是講到非典非典型工作者那你們呢是不是有宣示4年要投入160億去協助這些非典的工作者轉正職因為他們已經大規模的突破80萬創新高了嘛"},{"start":492.566,"end":516.244,"text":"是好那這邊是我幫你找出來114年你們勞動部編列的預算這個勞動部跟你們所屬的機關的公務預算還有所屬的特種基金所禁用的非典型的承染人力在人數上還有在支出的經費上你猜增加多少"},{"start":518.581,"end":524.512,"text":"人數是增加35人喔經費呢是增加了9000多萬9000多萬好 比較好笑的是"},{"start":529.614,"end":550.19,"text":"其中這個就業安定基金啊就業安定基金是最大幅度禁用非典型勞工承攬34人而且他是就業安定基金你套在安定這兩個字不是很荒謬嗎你就業安定然後你去找非典型勞工所以他光是在就業安定基金就增加了8000多萬"},{"start":552.231,"end":565.905,"text":"那你一方面花了這麼多錢說要降低非典型勞工協助他們轉正職一方面多編了這些錢九千多萬去增加你們勞動部自己的非典型承攬的人力你覺得這樣合理嗎我們確實真的這方面是因為我們組織內部"},{"start":574.685,"end":600.408,"text":"人總在這邊我們確實就是在我們的組織內部因為我們正式人員缺乏所以就都大量禁用承攬那因為我們的這個在預算緣合上面有控管我們正式緣合其實被合組的很少因為你現在也要督導每一個部門減少他們的非典勞工如果你自己都做不到那別人的我承認我們是非典大戶"},{"start":602.386,"end":621.146,"text":"因為委員就是我們整個政府機關都有這樣的困境就是我們在正式原額的都有被控管因為政府精簡的需要所以你去督導別人的時候別人跟你講現在一模一樣的理由你應該要怎麼辦呢是我們應該要來跟我們要跟上級長官反映啦我們要跟行政院反映這個問題那你編這麼多錢"},{"start":624.289,"end":646.486,"text":"這兩邊是互相抵觸的,我希望你要不要提出一個月內提出一個檢討。我們應該是這樣,我們有在,剛剛之前我也都推詢,就是包括承攬人力的薪水提升啦,這個我們是可以馬上做的,就是我們讓承攬的人力也能讓他符合所有的勞動條件,因為承攬有時候也未必是那麼"},{"start":647.327,"end":647.467,"text":"邀請勞動部部長"},{"start":662.932,"end":687.331,"text":"改善承攬的勞動條件我也會很想要知道說你未來要怎麼協助這個越來越多你們自己勞動部裡面的這些非典勞工轉正職你們有什麼具體的做法或者目標策略非典勞工轉正職就牽涉到行政院的整個政府的這個預算源額的問題這個是整個我們要必須跟行政院反應澄清"},{"start":687.751,"end":687.931,"text":"陳婉嫻委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":332,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時40分）謝謝主席，謝謝各位委員、官員，我也想請何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長好。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：今年的10月10號叫做世界心理健康日，今年的主題是職場心理健康，因為全世界的國家都發現，在疫情的時候，大家的情緒壓力是增加的，可是疫情後大家紛紛要返回職場，但現在也有很多空缺都還補不上。","這裡有一個local的數據顯示了臺灣民眾常見精神疾患的分布，大概憂鬱、焦慮在30到45歲的族群中盛行率最高，平均每4位就有一位；青壯世代的部分，從就診的紀錄就可以看到精神醫療使用的提升，105年到111年從7.4%增加到9.5%，成長率達到27%，這群人其實跟我們勞動部所關心的族群非常重疊的，就是525萬人的青壯世代。所以為了響應今年這種職場心理健康，許多團體……我等一下會舉很多團體做出來的問卷。有一個臺灣心理健康聯盟發布的職場心理健康調查，高達76%的比例認為工作壓力危害心理健康，也呼籲希望可以倡導彈性工時給職場的爸媽，還有親職假等等的議題，這些都超過九成的民眾支持。我相信部長跟我一樣，應該都在這76%裡面，是不是？工作壓力有點危害到心理健康，是吧？"],["何部長佩珊：我們都有壓力。"],["陳委員菁徽：我想問一下，你知道衛福部針對15到45歲，今年也是因應這個主題，所以推出了一個擴大心理健康支持方案，免費有3次的心理健康諮詢。你知道勞動部為我們廣大的勞工在職場的心理健康，比如職場霸凌等等，做了什麼具體的措施嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我們的預防重建中心每年可以提供6次的心理諮商服務，而且我們還在臉書幫它宣傳。"],["陳委員菁徽：你說幫衛福部宣傳？"],["何部長佩珊：不是，是幫我們，那是我們自己的。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。這個是從2015年開始做，擴大跟67家心理諮商來合作，而且我覺得做的比衛福部更多次，因為你是每年6次，它是一生3次，你知道這個方案執行的效果怎麼樣嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：需要宣導、宣傳，再更多推廣，因為確實從111年到112年才服務622人次，太少了。"],["陳委員菁徽：是，沒有比較，沒有傷害。我放兩個slide給你看，這邊是另外一個關於臺灣職場心理健康問卷的調查結果，2023亞洲心理健康指數報告發現有82%的員工有心理健康風險，裡面高度的大概是35%，中度大概是47%，在臺灣跟亞洲的數據也有點像，就像我剛剛跟你講的，75%的填答者都認為工作壓力對於身心健康有負面的影響。所以我們簡單算一下，全國如果1,200萬勞工，75%是900萬，這些人可能會有心理諮商的需求，但是我們退一步講，一半就好了，所以可能是600萬。我們來看你的數據，近3年你編了預算，還用不到預算……當然，我覺得你編的預算也不夠，滿少的，但是你編這樣子的錢還用不到一半多一點點。從近3年看，111年239人，第二年383人，到目前923人，我希望今年可以破……"],["何部長佩珊：今年成長比較多啦。"],["陳委員菁徽：我希望今年可以，但是你的預算用不掉。"],["何部長佩珊：是，謝謝委員，這應該要加強。"],["陳委員菁徽：你的立意很良好，可是預算用不掉，這個很慘，因為這個族群你也承認……"],["何部長佩珊：是非常有需要。"],["陳委員菁徽：職場的心理健康是很需要的，我等一下會告訴你哪邊需要改善。我們來跟衛福部比，衛福部去年8月針對15到30歲提出了年輕族群心理健康方案，因為青少年現在自殺率開始升高，不到1年他們已經服務超過2萬9,000人，還轉介高風險就醫，受益者超過1萬人，所以他們還從裡面抓到了高風險的，趕快轉到醫療機構去。因為辦得太好，這也是少數衛福部評價96%滿意度的計畫，滿意度好到他們擴大到45歲，我也很希望勞動部可以推出一個令人有感的好計畫……"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員菁徽：而且你們是從2015年開始喔！衛福部的族群TA這麼廣，衛福部裡面有老人、有病人、有三高的人，大家知道要去用；勞動部的職場心理健康方案，它的族群就是勞動部這麼簡單，結果勞動部的人居然不知道，也沒有人去用。這件事情要不要跟他們學習一下到底要怎麼宣導？"],["何部長佩珊：當然、當然。我上任以後有發現這個事，所以我先請同仁在勞動部自己的官網、臉書也幫忙宣傳這個活動。主要是對於勞工職場的心理復健這個定義，我想我們也不要太拘泥，因為我們一直都會拘泥於一定要定義他是因為工作，才能讓他去做心理諮商……"],["陳委員菁徽：對，你知道嗎？失業的人是不能用你們的服務的。"],["何部長佩珊：失業，對。"],["陳委員菁徽：他現在必須要有一個工作。"],["何部長佩珊：是啊，所以我覺得這是一個應該要改進的問題。"],["陳委員菁徽：我跟你說一下……"],["何部長佩珊：如果我們能夠像衛福部那麼地全面性，因為它可能是用健保吧。"],["陳委員菁徽：它不是，它是補助。"],["何部長佩珊：是公務預算，所有的青少年，只要年齡符合的話就可以。"],["陳委員菁徽：我也希望你可以重視今年全世界很重視的職場心理健康。"],["何部長佩珊：好，委員，我們來改進我們自己這個計畫。"],["陳委員菁徽：我也具體分享一下我們來試用這個計畫的經驗。我10月初請我們辦公室同仁打到職災預防重建中心的北部勞工健康辦公室，他首先告訴我們要先經過他們的評估，評估完才可以知道我們符不符合補助這6次諮商。好，10月初打電話，但是他說10月的評估已經全部滿了，所以他給我的時間是11月中到11月底中間一個平日的早上，要我們在這個時間過來評估，評估完以後再告訴我們可不可以獲得後面的6次諮商。"],["何部長佩珊：評估、再評估。"],["陳委員菁徽：剛剛已經講到這個心理健康是一個比較緊急的狀態……"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：從10月初就已經約到一個11月中的時間……"],["何部長佩珊：這應該要改進。"],["陳委員菁徽：又是規定在一個上班時間。從我們之前軍人、警察自殺，就已經知道他們就不想要被長官知道，當然，我可以合法地說我預約勞動部的服務，要去做心理諮商，但是軍人就是有這個問題，警察也有這個問題，所以他們才做不好。他們不敢跟老闆講的話，永遠這個評估都做不到，不但預約不到、很難預約，而且是一個很不友善的時間。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：這個也請你們回去檢討，好嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["陳委員菁徽：我想要講一下，今天有一題是講到非典型工作者，你們是不是有宣示4年要投入160億去協助這些非典的工作者轉正職？因為他們已經大規模地突破80萬，創新高了。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：我幫你找出來114年你們勞動部編列的預算，勞動部跟你們所屬機關的公務預算還有所屬的特種基金所進用的非典型承攬人力，在人數上還有在支出的經費上，你猜增加多少？人數是增加35人，經費是增加了九千多萬，比較好笑的是，其中就業安定基金是最大幅度進用非典型勞工承攬34人，而且它是就業安定基金，套在「安定」這兩個字不是很荒謬嗎？你是就業安定基金，然後你去找非典型勞工，所以光是在就業安定基金就增加了八千多萬。你一方面花了這麼多錢，說要降低非典型勞工，協助他們轉正職，一方面多編了這些錢、九千多萬去增加你們勞動部自己的非典型承攬人力，你覺得這樣合理嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，人總也在這邊，這方面確實是因為我們組織內部正式人員缺乏，所以就都大量進用承攬。因為我們在預算員額上面有控管，我們正式員額其實被核准的很少……"],["陳委員菁徽：你現在也要督導每一個部門減少他們的非典勞工，如果你自己都做不到，那別人怎麼……"],["何部長佩珊：我承認我們是非典大戶。委員，我們整個政府機關都有這樣的困境，就是我們的正式員額都有被控管，因為政府精簡的需要。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你去督導別人的時候，別人跟你講現在一模一樣的理由，你應該要怎麼辦呢？"],["何部長佩珊：是，我們應該要跟上級長官反映，我們要跟行政院反映這個問題。"],["陳委員菁徽：你編這麼多錢，這兩邊是互相牴觸的，你要不要一個月內提出一個檢討……"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們應該是這樣，之前委員都垂詢了，就是包括承攬人力的薪水提升，這個是我們可以馬上做的，就是讓承攬的人力也能符合所有的勞動條件，因為承攬有時候也未必是那麼差的勞動條件，承攬有時候其實是一個比較彈性的人力運用方式，他如果勞動條件好的話……現在因為體制要改變很困難，我們來努力改善承攬的勞動條件。"],["陳委員菁徽：我也很想要知道你未來要怎麼協助越來越多勞動部裡面的這些非典勞工轉正職，你們有什麼具體的作法或是目標、策略？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，非典勞工轉正職會牽涉到行政院整個政府的預算員額問題，我們必須要跟行政院反映、陳情。"],["陳委員菁徽：我們希望你帶頭示範你自己提出來的政見，好嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳菁徽委員的發言。","接下來請廖偉翔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":430,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","盧縣一","王正旭","林淑芬","涂權吉","郭國文","羅智強","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","劉建國","楊曜","鍾佳濱","陳瑩","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":363,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長就「如何提升移工問題諮詢與申訴處理效能，並重視與建立移工的社會支持系\n統」進行專題報告，並備質詢；邀請勞動部部長、行政院人事行政總處就「如何有效提升國內薪\n資水準，落實保障政府機關單位內勞工之權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00006"}}}