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00:00:24,781\n謝謝主席有請我們顧部長來部長請是黃委員好部長今天我要問的議題裡面可能就是對國家的安全包含國防的安全絕對有息息相關昨天我問國安局局長\n\n2\n00:00:26,551 --> 00:00:47,035\n題目裡面以哈中東的戰死但是未提到朝鮮半島朝鮮半島在前4天以前就已經發生了鐵路的一個轟炸也造成兩航之間這些的紛擾但是對我們台海的局勢絕對有影響所以接著我要問的是\n\n3\n00:00:55,814 --> 00:00:59,751\n我們你是法律專家我想請教\n\n4\n00:01:01,394 --> 00:01:28,461\n美國戰略與國際問題的研究中心已經發布關於中國反分裂國家法的報告中指出明年是該法律制定20週年有可能進行修改更激進的為實用武力統一台灣提供合法性那請教部長有何看法要如何因應\n\n5\n00:01:29,790 --> 00:01:53,403\n我想對於任何這些有相關的這些智庫單位所發表的報告我們都表示予以尊重不過我想中國公布相關的任何的規範都有對我們來講這個是對外政策的宣示效果我們兩岸互不隸屬的國際現實對我方是不具管轄權的所以中國內國法跟\n\n6\n00:01:54,804 --> 00:01:56,485\n我們現在不要模糊一個焦點第一個不管是聯合力線A聯合力線B\n\n7\n00:02:25,267 --> 00:02:52,321\n昨天國安局局長可能會引進到聯合力線西剛王帝這個委員也特別有講不管用什麼方法可能會有其他的代號但是現在反分裂國家法這個既然都已經釋出對國際的鮮言那我們不得不提防\n\n8\n00:02:53,035 --> 00:03:16,669\n因為我們在反分裂國家法的是在2005年的中共通過基本的法律其中最重要的內容是以下條件將以和平手段完成統一第一個台灣從中國分裂出去的事實\n\n9\n00:03:17,549 --> 00:03:36,000\n第二,發聲將會導致台灣從中國分裂出去的重大事變。第三,和平統一的可能性完全的喪失,所以該法是中共設定統一台灣的條件和統一後的基本治理的原則。\n\n10\n00:03:37,060 --> 00:03:50,857\n所以這個我們不得不防因為我們現在已經紛紛擾擾我說部長你要有自己的因應的措施跟看法你再說一遍那是不是可以來回答我這個問題\n\n11\n00:03:52,357 --> 00:04:16,149\n我想我們是不會採取挑釁的作為我們大家共同的目標都是在維持台海的和平穩定現狀所以我們不會採取任何挑釁的一個作為那現在看起來包括禮拜一這樣的一個聯合力艦的演習還有剛剛講的這種每個月每週進行的那種常態化的聯合\n\n12\n00:04:17,938 --> 00:04:30,645\n暫備警訊等等的這些從事這樣子一個挑釁的這個行為的都是中國所以我們希望的就是能夠維持台海的和平穩定現狀\n\n13\n00:04:31,786 --> 00:04:59,207\n好就我們國防部的角度我們有一個退將叫戰右俠退將那你們已經做一個懲處因為他已赴中所以你們要為了表達對整個親中的這樣的一個行為也造成很多的降官可能也會發生那你們有什麼樣的看法\n\n14\n00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:23,323\n我們已經就是說多方查核認定這個他確實是有違反這一個兩岸人民關係條例第9條之3的這個規定所以我們經過審查會的認定之後做出這一個適切的一個行政的這個懲處他現在也請了法律律師來提出辯護你們有什麼看法\n\n15\n00:05:24,045 --> 00:05:42,959\n我想他依法當然可以提起他這個救濟的權利對於他依法提起救濟的權利我想就按程序來走我們表示尊重其他的就是有關於青年扶勤的同意書在某高中發放青年扶勤同意書給學生\n\n16\n00:05:44,609 --> 00:06:01,041\n並注明是具依據全民的防衛動員準備法及配合地方政府學校青年服刑的大隊需求,擔心是動員高中學生暫時自願參加後勤的工作。\n\n17\n00:06:03,779 --> 00:06:10,682\n這邊有一個調查的報告以戰爭無關但是這是教育部對媒體所回答的說這個以戰爭無關請問部長像教育部這樣的一個說法你認同嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:23,824 --> 00:06:49,070\n第一個我還是說明這個確實是跟這個學生會不會參與軍事行動或軍事勤務有關是不會有任何的關聯的這是第一點第二點就是說我想這個整個對學生的這個教育訓練的目的是在於任何這個重大災害或者是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠在這個校園裡面能夠自救\n\n19\n00:06:51,531 --> 00:07:17,350\n所以我認為重要的是在於有從事這樣子的一個教育的一個訓練那第三點我認為呢像這樣子的一種志願的一種同意書的調查我認為是可以檢討廢除啦我個人認為是沒有太大意義所以今天有一個某高中已經發放青年扶勤同意書給學生那如果是依據的是權動法那就是涉及到兩個部分\n\n20\n00:07:18,010 --> 00:07:39,725\n第一個這件事應該是國防部主管或者是國防部參與第二就是潛動法第三條指出在動員準備階段是要這個基礎戰時總體戰力動員實施階段是要支援軍事作戰及緊急為難這是怎麼樣的一個戰爭無關這怎麼會是無關呢\n\n21\n00:07:45,946 --> 00:07:54,432\n我只是說明第一點就是說這個按照權動法的這個15條的規定這個教育部他要訂定一些相關的計畫那\n\n22\n00:07:58,067 --> 00:08:26,206\n那這樣子的一個計畫他們所主要的目的就是在讓這個校園他們在任何重大災害或是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠發揮這個讓維護校園的安全跟自救救人的一個功能所以我剛剛認為已經表示我認為重點是放在這一個教育訓練上面至於他們說要發放這個這個同意書這個部分當然是由這個教育部來主責\n\n23\n00:08:26,766 --> 00:08:29,468\n當然不是很有意義,而且趕快修正,因為這個是造成居民或是家庭或是很多全國的學生的不安\n\n24\n00:08:53,369 --> 00:09:08,721\n這就是一個製造一個問題讓居民讓百姓都已經不安的一個議題那另外就是我想請教我們目前來講我們在你上任之後你採取了這些\n\n25\n00:09:10,868 --> 00:09:11,368\n李穎的宣教有\n\n26\n00:09:39,454 --> 00:09:39,734\n反映什麼?第一個\n\n27\n00:10:07,725 --> 00:10:26,262\n部隊不請沒有減少幹部的業務反而讓部隊把簡單的事情做成一個複雜的工作那提醒部長真正的問題在觀念和執行的落實部長如果要下令卻沒有去了解實際的狀況或執行的話\n\n28\n00:10:28,984 --> 00:10:43,938\n這等於是改革只是紙上談兵那我也希望在基層上的官兵更加的苦不堪言所以我們你要實際了解你所下達的這個命令到底下面有沒有去執行你來回答一下好不好\n\n29\n00:10:44,418 --> 00:11:02,766\n是,我覺得委員指教的是對的,我應該要進行了解就是說有沒有因為我想要達成一個比較人性化的管理,然後減少這個形式主義,然後用檢法的思維,這件事情到底有沒有貫徹到基層,我應該要去了解。\n\n30\n00:11:03,086 --> 00:11:03,446\n謝謝黃任委員：部長請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n289\t24781\t謝謝主席 有請我們顧部長來 部長請是 黃委員好部長今天我要問的議題裡面可能就是對國家的安全包含國防的安全 絕對有息息相關昨天我問國安局局長\n26551\t47035\t題目裡面以哈中東的戰死但是未提到朝鮮半島朝鮮半島在前4天以前就已經發生了鐵路的一個轟炸也造成兩航之間這些的紛擾但是對我們台海的局勢絕對有影響所以接著我要問的是\n55814\t59751\t我們你是法律專家我想請教\n61394\t88461\t美國戰略與國際問題的研究中心已經發布關於中國反分裂國家法的報告中指出明年是該法律制定20週年有可能進行修改更激進的為實用武力統一台灣提供合法性那請教部長有何看法要如何因應\n89790\t113403\t我想對於任何這些有相關的這些智庫單位所發表的報告我們都表示予以尊重不過我想中國公布相關的任何的規範都有對我們來講這個是對外政策的宣示效果我們兩岸互不隸屬的國際現實對我方是不具管轄權的所以中國內國法跟\n114804\t116485\t我們現在不要模糊一個焦點第一個不管是聯合力線A聯合力線B\n145267\t172321\t昨天國安局局長可能會引進到聯合力線西剛王帝這個委員也特別有講不管用什麼方法可能會有其他的代號但是現在反分裂國家法這個既然都已經釋出對國際的鮮言那我們不得不提防\n173035\t196669\t因為我們在反分裂國家法的是在2005年的中共通過基本的法律其中最重要的內容是以下條件將以和平手段完成統一第一個台灣從中國分裂出去的事實\n197549\t216000\t第二,發聲將會導致台灣從中國分裂出去的重大事變。第三,和平統一的可能性完全的喪失,所以該法是中共設定統一台灣的條件和統一後的基本治理的原則。\n217060\t230857\t所以這個我們不得不防因為我們現在已經紛紛擾擾我說部長你要有自己的因應的措施跟看法你再說一遍那是不是可以來回答我這個問題\n232357\t256149\t我想我們是不會採取挑釁的作為我們大家共同的目標都是在維持台海的和平穩定現狀所以我們不會採取任何挑釁的一個作為那現在看起來包括禮拜一這樣的一個聯合力艦的演習還有剛剛講的這種每個月每週進行的那種常態化的聯合\n257938\t270645\t暫備警訊等等的這些從事這樣子一個挑釁的這個行為的都是中國所以我們希望的就是能夠維持台海的和平穩定現狀\n271786\t299207\t好 就我們國防部的角度我們有一個退將叫戰右俠退將那你們已經做一個懲處因為他已赴中所以你們要為了表達對整個親中的這樣的一個行為也造成很多的降官可能也會發生那你們有什麼樣的看法\n300479\t323323\t我們已經就是說多方查核認定這個他確實是有違反這一個兩岸人民關係條例第9條之3的這個規定所以我們經過審查會的認定之後做出這一個適切的一個行政的這個懲處他現在也請了法律律師來提出辯護你們有什麼看法\n324045\t342959\t我想他依法當然可以提起他這個救濟的權利對於他依法提起救濟的權利我想就按程序來走我們表示尊重其他的就是有關於青年扶勤的同意書在某高中發放青年扶勤同意書給學生\n344609\t361041\t並注明是具依據全民的防衛動員準備法及配合地方政府學校青年服刑的大隊需求,擔心是動員高中學生暫時自願參加後勤的工作。\n363779\t370682\t這邊有一個調查的報告以戰爭無關但是這是教育部對媒體所回答的說這個以戰爭無關請問部長像教育部這樣的一個說法你認同嗎?\n383824\t409070\t第一個我還是說明這個確實是跟這個學生會不會參與軍事行動或軍事勤務有關是不會有任何的關聯的這是第一點第二點就是說我想這個整個對學生的這個教育訓練的目的是在於任何這個重大災害或者是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠在這個校園裡面能夠自救\n411531\t437350\t所以我認為重要的是在於有從事這樣子的一個教育的一個訓練那第三點我認為呢像這樣子的一種志願的一種同意書的調查我認為是可以檢討廢除啦我個人認為是沒有太大意義所以今天有一個某高中已經發放青年扶勤同意書給學生那如果是依據的是權動法那就是涉及到兩個部分\n438010\t459725\t第一個這件事應該是國防部主管或者是國防部參與第二就是潛動法第三條指出在動員準備階段是要這個基礎戰時總體戰力動員實施階段是要支援軍事作戰及緊急為難這是怎麼樣的一個戰爭無關這怎麼會是無關呢\n465946\t474432\t我只是說明第一點就是說這個按照權動法的這個15條的規定這個教育部他要訂定一些相關的計畫那\n478067\t506206\t那這樣子的一個計畫他們所主要的目的就是在讓這個校園他們在任何重大災害或是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠發揮這個讓維護校園的安全跟自救救人的一個功能所以我剛剛認為已經表示我認為重點是放在這一個教育訓練上面至於他們說要發放這個這個同意書這個部分當然是由這個教育部來主責\n506766\t509468\t當然不是很有意義,而且趕快修正,因為這個是造成居民或是家庭或是很多全國的學生的不安\n533369\t548721\t這就是一個製造一個問題讓居民讓百姓都已經不安的一個議題那另外就是我想請教我們目前來講我們在你上任之後你採取了這些\n550868\t551368\t李穎的宣教有\n579454\t579734\t反映什麼?第一個\n607725\t626262\t部隊不請沒有減少幹部的業務反而讓部隊把簡單的事情做成一個複雜的工作那提醒部長真正的問題在觀念和執行的落實部長如果要下令卻沒有去了解實際的狀況或執行的話\n628984\t643938\t這等於是改革只是紙上談兵那我也希望在基層上的官兵更加的苦不堪言所以我們你要實際了解你所下達的這個命令到底下面有沒有去執行你來回答一下好不好\n644418\t662766\t是,我覺得委員指教的是對的,我應該要進行了解就是說有沒有因為我想要達成一個比較人性化的管理,然後減少這個形式主義,然後用檢法的思維,這件事情到底有沒有貫徹到基層,我應該要去了解。\n663086\t663446\t謝謝黃任委員：部長請回\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請我們顧部長來 部長請是 黃委員好部長今天我要問的議題裡面可能就是對國家的安全包含國防的安全 絕對有息息相關昨天我問國安局局長\n題目裡面以哈中東的戰死但是未提到朝鮮半島朝鮮半島在前4天以前就已經發生了鐵路的一個轟炸也造成兩航之間這些的紛擾但是對我們台海的局勢絕對有影響所以接著我要問的是\n我們你是法律專家我想請教\n美國戰略與國際問題的研究中心已經發布關於中國反分裂國家法的報告中指出明年是該法律制定20週年有可能進行修改更激進的為實用武力統一台灣提供合法性那請教部長有何看法要如何因應\n我想對於任何這些有相關的這些智庫單位所發表的報告我們都表示予以尊重不過我想中國公布相關的任何的規範都有對我們來講這個是對外政策的宣示效果我們兩岸互不隸屬的國際現實對我方是不具管轄權的所以中國內國法跟\n我們現在不要模糊一個焦點第一個不管是聯合力線A聯合力線B\n昨天國安局局長可能會引進到聯合力線西剛王帝這個委員也特別有講不管用什麼方法可能會有其他的代號但是現在反分裂國家法這個既然都已經釋出對國際的鮮言那我們不得不提防\n因為我們在反分裂國家法的是在2005年的中共通過基本的法律其中最重要的內容是以下條件將以和平手段完成統一第一個台灣從中國分裂出去的事實\n第二,發聲將會導致台灣從中國分裂出去的重大事變。第三,和平統一的可能性完全的喪失,所以該法是中共設定統一台灣的條件和統一後的基本治理的原則。\n所以這個我們不得不防因為我們現在已經紛紛擾擾我說部長你要有自己的因應的措施跟看法你再說一遍那是不是可以來回答我這個問題\n我想我們是不會採取挑釁的作為我們大家共同的目標都是在維持台海的和平穩定現狀所以我們不會採取任何挑釁的一個作為那現在看起來包括禮拜一這樣的一個聯合力艦的演習還有剛剛講的這種每個月每週進行的那種常態化的聯合\n暫備警訊等等的這些從事這樣子一個挑釁的這個行為的都是中國所以我們希望的就是能夠維持台海的和平穩定現狀\n好 就我們國防部的角度我們有一個退將叫戰右俠退將那你們已經做一個懲處因為他已赴中所以你們要為了表達對整個親中的這樣的一個行為也造成很多的降官可能也會發生那你們有什麼樣的看法\n我們已經就是說多方查核認定這個他確實是有違反這一個兩岸人民關係條例第9條之3的這個規定所以我們經過審查會的認定之後做出這一個適切的一個行政的這個懲處他現在也請了法律律師來提出辯護你們有什麼看法\n我想他依法當然可以提起他這個救濟的權利對於他依法提起救濟的權利我想就按程序來走我們表示尊重其他的就是有關於青年扶勤的同意書在某高中發放青年扶勤同意書給學生\n並注明是具依據全民的防衛動員準備法及配合地方政府學校青年服刑的大隊需求,擔心是動員高中學生暫時自願參加後勤的工作。\n這邊有一個調查的報告以戰爭無關但是這是教育部對媒體所回答的說這個以戰爭無關請問部長像教育部這樣的一個說法你認同嗎?\n第一個我還是說明這個確實是跟這個學生會不會參與軍事行動或軍事勤務有關是不會有任何的關聯的這是第一點第二點就是說我想這個整個對學生的這個教育訓練的目的是在於任何這個重大災害或者是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠在這個校園裡面能夠自救\n所以我認為重要的是在於有從事這樣子的一個教育的一個訓練那第三點我認為呢像這樣子的一種志願的一種同意書的調查我認為是可以檢討廢除啦我個人認為是沒有太大意義所以今天有一個某高中已經發放青年扶勤同意書給學生那如果是依據的是權動法那就是涉及到兩個部分\n第一個這件事應該是國防部主管或者是國防部參與第二就是潛動法第三條指出在動員準備階段是要這個基礎戰時總體戰力動員實施階段是要支援軍事作戰及緊急為難這是怎麼樣的一個戰爭無關這怎麼會是無關呢\n我只是說明第一點就是說這個按照權動法的這個15條的規定這個教育部他要訂定一些相關的計畫那\n那這樣子的一個計畫他們所主要的目的就是在讓這個校園他們在任何重大災害或是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠發揮這個讓維護校園的安全跟自救救人的一個功能所以我剛剛認為已經表示我認為重點是放在這一個教育訓練上面至於他們說要發放這個這個同意書這個部分當然是由這個教育部來主責\n當然不是很有意義,而且趕快修正,因為這個是造成居民或是家庭或是很多全國的學生的不安\n這就是一個製造一個問題讓居民讓百姓都已經不安的一個議題那另外就是我想請教我們目前來講我們在你上任之後你採取了這些\n李穎的宣教有\n反映什麼?第一個\n部隊不請沒有減少幹部的業務反而讓部隊把簡單的事情做成一個複雜的工作那提醒部長真正的問題在觀念和執行的落實部長如果要下令卻沒有去了解實際的狀況或執行的話\n這等於是改革只是紙上談兵那我也希望在基層上的官兵更加的苦不堪言所以我們你要實際了解你所下達的這個命令到底下面有沒有去執行你來回答一下好不好\n是,我覺得委員指教的是對的,我應該要進行了解就是說有沒有因為我想要達成一個比較人性化的管理,然後減少這個形式主義,然後用檢法的思維,這件事情到底有沒有貫徹到基層,我應該要去了解。\n謝謝黃任委員：部長請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.289 --> 00:24.781\n謝謝主席有請我們顧部長來部長請是黃委員好部長今天我要問的議題裡面可能就是對國家的安全包含國防的安全絕對有息息相關昨天我問國安局局長\n\n00:26.551 --> 00:47.035\n題目裡面以哈中東的戰死但是未提到朝鮮半島朝鮮半島在前4天以前就已經發生了鐵路的一個轟炸也造成兩航之間這些的紛擾但是對我們台海的局勢絕對有影響所以接著我要問的是\n\n00:55.814 --> 00:59.751\n我們你是法律專家我想請教\n\n01:01.394 --> 01:28.461\n美國戰略與國際問題的研究中心已經發布關於中國反分裂國家法的報告中指出明年是該法律制定20週年有可能進行修改更激進的為實用武力統一台灣提供合法性那請教部長有何看法要如何因應\n\n01:29.790 --> 01:53.403\n我想對於任何這些有相關的這些智庫單位所發表的報告我們都表示予以尊重不過我想中國公布相關的任何的規範都有對我們來講這個是對外政策的宣示效果我們兩岸互不隸屬的國際現實對我方是不具管轄權的所以中國內國法跟\n\n01:54.804 --> 01:56.485\n我們現在不要模糊一個焦點第一個不管是聯合力線A聯合力線B\n\n02:25.267 --> 02:52.321\n昨天國安局局長可能會引進到聯合力線西剛王帝這個委員也特別有講不管用什麼方法可能會有其他的代號但是現在反分裂國家法這個既然都已經釋出對國際的鮮言那我們不得不提防\n\n02:53.035 --> 03:16.669\n因為我們在反分裂國家法的是在2005年的中共通過基本的法律其中最重要的內容是以下條件將以和平手段完成統一第一個台灣從中國分裂出去的事實\n\n03:17.549 --> 03:36.000\n第二,發聲將會導致台灣從中國分裂出去的重大事變。第三,和平統一的可能性完全的喪失,所以該法是中共設定統一台灣的條件和統一後的基本治理的原則。\n\n03:37.060 --> 03:50.857\n所以這個我們不得不防因為我們現在已經紛紛擾擾我說部長你要有自己的因應的措施跟看法你再說一遍那是不是可以來回答我這個問題\n\n03:52.357 --> 04:16.149\n我想我們是不會採取挑釁的作為我們大家共同的目標都是在維持台海的和平穩定現狀所以我們不會採取任何挑釁的一個作為那現在看起來包括禮拜一這樣的一個聯合力艦的演習還有剛剛講的這種每個月每週進行的那種常態化的聯合\n\n04:17.938 --> 04:30.645\n暫備警訊等等的這些從事這樣子一個挑釁的這個行為的都是中國所以我們希望的就是能夠維持台海的和平穩定現狀\n\n04:31.786 --> 04:59.207\n好就我們國防部的角度我們有一個退將叫戰右俠退將那你們已經做一個懲處因為他已赴中所以你們要為了表達對整個親中的這樣的一個行為也造成很多的降官可能也會發生那你們有什麼樣的看法\n\n05:00.479 --> 05:23.323\n我們已經就是說多方查核認定這個他確實是有違反這一個兩岸人民關係條例第9條之3的這個規定所以我們經過審查會的認定之後做出這一個適切的一個行政的這個懲處他現在也請了法律律師來提出辯護你們有什麼看法\n\n05:24.045 --> 05:42.959\n我想他依法當然可以提起他這個救濟的權利對於他依法提起救濟的權利我想就按程序來走我們表示尊重其他的就是有關於青年扶勤的同意書在某高中發放青年扶勤同意書給學生\n\n05:44.609 --> 06:01.041\n並注明是具依據全民的防衛動員準備法及配合地方政府學校青年服刑的大隊需求,擔心是動員高中學生暫時自願參加後勤的工作。\n\n06:03.779 --> 06:10.682\n這邊有一個調查的報告以戰爭無關但是這是教育部對媒體所回答的說這個以戰爭無關請問部長像教育部這樣的一個說法你認同嗎?\n\n06:23.824 --> 06:49.070\n第一個我還是說明這個確實是跟這個學生會不會參與軍事行動或軍事勤務有關是不會有任何的關聯的這是第一點第二點就是說我想這個整個對學生的這個教育訓練的目的是在於任何這個重大災害或者是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠在這個校園裡面能夠自救\n\n06:51.531 --> 07:17.350\n所以我認為重要的是在於有從事這樣子的一個教育的一個訓練那第三點我認為呢像這樣子的一種志願的一種同意書的調查我認為是可以檢討廢除啦我個人認為是沒有太大意義所以今天有一個某高中已經發放青年扶勤同意書給學生那如果是依據的是權動法那就是涉及到兩個部分\n\n07:18.010 --> 07:39.725\n第一個這件事應該是國防部主管或者是國防部參與第二就是潛動法第三條指出在動員準備階段是要這個基礎戰時總體戰力動員實施階段是要支援軍事作戰及緊急為難這是怎麼樣的一個戰爭無關這怎麼會是無關呢\n\n07:45.946 --> 07:54.432\n我只是說明第一點就是說這個按照權動法的這個15條的規定這個教育部他要訂定一些相關的計畫那\n\n07:58.067 --> 08:26.206\n那這樣子的一個計畫他們所主要的目的就是在讓這個校園他們在任何重大災害或是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠發揮這個讓維護校園的安全跟自救救人的一個功能所以我剛剛認為已經表示我認為重點是放在這一個教育訓練上面至於他們說要發放這個這個同意書這個部分當然是由這個教育部來主責\n\n08:26.766 --> 08:29.468\n當然不是很有意義,而且趕快修正,因為這個是造成居民或是家庭或是很多全國的學生的不安\n\n08:53.369 --> 09:08.721\n這就是一個製造一個問題讓居民讓百姓都已經不安的一個議題那另外就是我想請教我們目前來講我們在你上任之後你採取了這些\n\n09:10.868 --> 09:11.368\n李穎的宣教有\n\n09:39.454 --> 09:39.734\n反映什麼?第一個\n\n10:07.725 --> 10:26.262\n部隊不請沒有減少幹部的業務反而讓部隊把簡單的事情做成一個複雜的工作那提醒部長真正的問題在觀念和執行的落實部長如果要下令卻沒有去了解實際的狀況或執行的話\n\n10:28.984 --> 10:43.938\n這等於是改革只是紙上談兵那我也希望在基層上的官兵更加的苦不堪言所以我們你要實際了解你所下達的這個命令到底下面有沒有去執行你來回答一下好不好\n\n10:44.418 --> 11:02.766\n是,我覺得委員指教的是對的,我應該要進行了解就是說有沒有因為我想要達成一個比較人性化的管理,然後減少這個形式主義,然後用檢法的思維,這件事情到底有沒有貫徹到基層,我應該要去了解。\n\n11:03.086 --> 11:03.446\n謝謝黃任委員：部長請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.289,"end":24.781,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們顧部長來 部長請是 黃委員好部長今天我要問的議題裡面可能就是對國家的安全包含國防的安全 絕對有息息相關昨天我問國安局局長"},{"start":26.551,"end":47.035,"text":"題目裡面以哈中東的戰死但是未提到朝鮮半島朝鮮半島在前4天以前就已經發生了鐵路的一個轟炸也造成兩航之間這些的紛擾但是對我們台海的局勢絕對有影響所以接著我要問的是"},{"start":55.814,"end":59.751,"text":"我們你是法律專家我想請教"},{"start":61.394,"end":88.461,"text":"美國戰略與國際問題的研究中心已經發布關於中國反分裂國家法的報告中指出明年是該法律制定20週年有可能進行修改更激進的為實用武力統一台灣提供合法性那請教部長有何看法要如何因應"},{"start":89.79,"end":113.403,"text":"我想對於任何這些有相關的這些智庫單位所發表的報告我們都表示予以尊重不過我想中國公布相關的任何的規範都有對我們來講這個是對外政策的宣示效果我們兩岸互不隸屬的國際現實對我方是不具管轄權的所以中國內國法跟"},{"start":114.804,"end":116.485,"text":"我們現在不要模糊一個焦點第一個不管是聯合力線A聯合力線B"},{"start":145.267,"end":172.321,"text":"昨天國安局局長可能會引進到聯合力線西剛王帝這個委員也特別有講不管用什麼方法可能會有其他的代號但是現在反分裂國家法這個既然都已經釋出對國際的鮮言那我們不得不提防"},{"start":173.035,"end":196.669,"text":"因為我們在反分裂國家法的是在2005年的中共通過基本的法律其中最重要的內容是以下條件將以和平手段完成統一第一個台灣從中國分裂出去的事實"},{"start":197.549,"end":216,"text":"第二,發聲將會導致台灣從中國分裂出去的重大事變。第三,和平統一的可能性完全的喪失,所以該法是中共設定統一台灣的條件和統一後的基本治理的原則。"},{"start":217.06,"end":230.857,"text":"所以這個我們不得不防因為我們現在已經紛紛擾擾我說部長你要有自己的因應的措施跟看法你再說一遍那是不是可以來回答我這個問題"},{"start":232.357,"end":256.149,"text":"我想我們是不會採取挑釁的作為我們大家共同的目標都是在維持台海的和平穩定現狀所以我們不會採取任何挑釁的一個作為那現在看起來包括禮拜一這樣的一個聯合力艦的演習還有剛剛講的這種每個月每週進行的那種常態化的聯合"},{"start":257.938,"end":270.645,"text":"暫備警訊等等的這些從事這樣子一個挑釁的這個行為的都是中國所以我們希望的就是能夠維持台海的和平穩定現狀"},{"start":271.786,"end":299.207,"text":"好 就我們國防部的角度我們有一個退將叫戰右俠退將那你們已經做一個懲處因為他已赴中所以你們要為了表達對整個親中的這樣的一個行為也造成很多的降官可能也會發生那你們有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":300.479,"end":323.323,"text":"我們已經就是說多方查核認定這個他確實是有違反這一個兩岸人民關係條例第9條之3的這個規定所以我們經過審查會的認定之後做出這一個適切的一個行政的這個懲處他現在也請了法律律師來提出辯護你們有什麼看法"},{"start":324.045,"end":342.959,"text":"我想他依法當然可以提起他這個救濟的權利對於他依法提起救濟的權利我想就按程序來走我們表示尊重其他的就是有關於青年扶勤的同意書在某高中發放青年扶勤同意書給學生"},{"start":344.609,"end":361.041,"text":"並注明是具依據全民的防衛動員準備法及配合地方政府學校青年服刑的大隊需求,擔心是動員高中學生暫時自願參加後勤的工作。"},{"start":363.779,"end":370.682,"text":"這邊有一個調查的報告以戰爭無關但是這是教育部對媒體所回答的說這個以戰爭無關請問部長像教育部這樣的一個說法你認同嗎?"},{"start":383.824,"end":409.07,"text":"第一個我還是說明這個確實是跟這個學生會不會參與軍事行動或軍事勤務有關是不會有任何的關聯的這是第一點第二點就是說我想這個整個對學生的這個教育訓練的目的是在於任何這個重大災害或者是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠在這個校園裡面能夠自救"},{"start":411.531,"end":437.35,"text":"所以我認為重要的是在於有從事這樣子的一個教育的一個訓練那第三點我認為呢像這樣子的一種志願的一種同意書的調查我認為是可以檢討廢除啦我個人認為是沒有太大意義所以今天有一個某高中已經發放青年扶勤同意書給學生那如果是依據的是權動法那就是涉及到兩個部分"},{"start":438.01,"end":459.725,"text":"第一個這件事應該是國防部主管或者是國防部參與第二就是潛動法第三條指出在動員準備階段是要這個基礎戰時總體戰力動員實施階段是要支援軍事作戰及緊急為難這是怎麼樣的一個戰爭無關這怎麼會是無關呢"},{"start":465.946,"end":474.432,"text":"我只是說明第一點就是說這個按照權動法的這個15條的規定這個教育部他要訂定一些相關的計畫那"},{"start":478.067,"end":506.206,"text":"那這樣子的一個計畫他們所主要的目的就是在讓這個校園他們在任何重大災害或是任何緊急狀況發生的時候他們能夠發揮這個讓維護校園的安全跟自救救人的一個功能所以我剛剛認為已經表示我認為重點是放在這一個教育訓練上面至於他們說要發放這個這個同意書這個部分當然是由這個教育部來主責"},{"start":506.766,"end":509.468,"text":"當然不是很有意義,而且趕快修正,因為這個是造成居民或是家庭或是很多全國的學生的不安"},{"start":533.369,"end":548.721,"text":"這就是一個製造一個問題讓居民讓百姓都已經不安的一個議題那另外就是我想請教我們目前來講我們在你上任之後你採取了這些"},{"start":550.868,"end":551.368,"text":"李穎的宣教有"},{"start":579.454,"end":579.734,"text":"反映什麼?第一個"},{"start":607.725,"end":626.262,"text":"部隊不請沒有減少幹部的業務反而讓部隊把簡單的事情做成一個複雜的工作那提醒部長真正的問題在觀念和執行的落實部長如果要下令卻沒有去了解實際的狀況或執行的話"},{"start":628.984,"end":643.938,"text":"這等於是改革只是紙上談兵那我也希望在基層上的官兵更加的苦不堪言所以我們你要實際了解你所下達的這個命令到底下面有沒有去執行你來回答一下好不好"},{"start":644.418,"end":662.766,"text":"是,我覺得委員指教的是對的,我應該要進行了解就是說有沒有因為我想要達成一個比較人性化的管理,然後減少這個形式主義,然後用檢法的思維,這件事情到底有沒有貫徹到基層,我應該要去了解。"},{"start":663.086,"end":663.446,"text":"謝謝黃任委員：部長請回"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":267,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（10時1分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席（王委員定宇）：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：黃委員好。"],["黃委員仁：部長，今天我要問的議題是國家安全，也和國防安全息息相關。昨天我問國安局局長有關以哈中東戰事，也提到朝鮮半島。日前朝鮮半島發生鐵路轟炸事件，造成兩韓間的紛擾，我認為這對我們臺海局勢絕對有影響。部長是法律專家，所以我要請教部長。美國戰略與國際問題研究中心在已經發布的中國反分裂國家法報告中指出，明年是該法律制定二十週年，有可能修改得更激進，為使用武力統一臺灣提供合法性，請教部長有何看法？要如何因應？"],["顧部長立雄：對於這些智庫單位所發表的報告，我們都予以尊重。不過中國公布的相關任何規範，對我們來講是對外政策的宣示效果，兩岸互不隸屬乃國際現實，故對我方是不具管轄權的。所以中國內國法跟相關法律的適用、解釋，對我們在臺國人而言，我不認為有任何的拘束力。他如果要以任何藉口……他一直宣稱不放棄使用武力統一臺灣，所以我想他可以使用任何理由來進行，為他統一臺灣來編理由。"],["黃委員仁：所以我們現在不要模糊焦點。第一個，不管是聯合利劍A或聯合利劍B，昨天國安局局長說甚至可能進到聯合利劍C。王定宇委員也特別提到，不管用什麼方法，可能會有其他的代號。現在既然以反分裂國家法為由釋出國際宣言，那麼我們就不得不提防。反分裂國家法是中共在2005年所通過的基本法律，其最重要的內容是以和平手段完成統一，除非有以下三種情況：第一，臺灣從中國分裂出去的事實；第二，發生將會導致臺灣從中國分裂出去的重大事變；第三，和平統一的可能性完全喪失。所以該法是中共設定統一臺灣的條件和統一後的基本治理原則，這個我們不得不防，因為我們現在已經紛紛擾擾。部長，我想你要有自己的因應措施跟看法，你是不是可以再說一遍，回答我這個問題？"],["顧部長立雄：我們不會採取挑釁作為，大家的共同目標都是在維持臺海和平、穩定與現狀，所以我們不會採取任何挑釁作為。現在看起來，包括禮拜一的聯合利劍演習，還有剛剛講的每個月、每週進行的常態化聯合戰備警巡等等，從事這些挑釁行為的都是中國，而我們希望的就是能夠維持臺海的和平、穩定與現狀。"],["黃委員仁：好。針對國防部退將臧幼俠赴中情事，你們已經做出懲處。由於其行為可能影響很多將官，甚至將來可能會再發生，對此你們有什麼樣的看法？"],["顧部長立雄：我們已經進行多方查核，認定他確實違反兩岸人民關係條例第九條之三的規定，故在審查會認定之後，做出此一適切的行政懲處……"],["黃委員仁：他現在請了律師來提出辯護，你們有什麼看法？"],["顧部長立雄：他依法當然可以提起救濟的權利，既然他依法提起救濟權利，我想就按程序來走，我們表示尊重。"],["黃委員仁：好。有關於青年服勤同意書一事，某高中發放青年服勤同意書給學生，並註明係依據全民防衛動員準備法及配合地方政府、學校青年服勤大隊之需求。本席擔心這是在動員高中學生戰時自願參加後勤工作，但教育部回答媒體時說與戰爭無關。請問部長，針對教育部的說法你認同嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：第一點，我還是要說明，這確實跟學生參與軍事行動或軍事勤務沒有任何關聯，這是第一點。第二點，對學生教育訓練的目的，是在於任何重大災害或任何緊急狀況發生時，他們能夠在校園裡有自救、互救的功能，所以我認為重要是在於從事這樣的教育訓練。第三點，像這種自願的同意書調查，我認為可以檢討廢除，我個人認為沒有太大意義。"],["黃委員仁：今天有某高中已經發青年服勤同意書給學生，如果依據的是全動法，那就涉及到兩個部分：第一個，這件事應該由國防部主管或國防部參與；第二個，全動法第三條指出，動員準備階段……以積儲戰時總體戰力；動員實施階段……支援軍事作戰及緊急危難，這怎麼會與戰爭無關呢？"],["顧部長立雄：第一點，按照全動法第十五條規定，教育部要訂定相關計畫，而該計畫的主要目的是讓校園在任何重大災害、戰時，或任何緊急狀況發生的時候，能夠維護校園安全跟自救救人的一個功能。所以我剛剛已經表示，重點是放在教育訓練上，至於發放同意書，這部分當然是由教育部來主責，但我個人認為我們可以來跟教育部協調看看，若計畫要修訂的話，我個人認為這所謂同意書不是很有意義，我個人認為可以廢除。"],["黃委員仁：當然不是很有意義，而且應該趕快修正，因為這個會造成居民或是家庭，或者很多全國學生的不安，這就是製造問題，讓居民、讓百姓都已經不安的一個議題。","另外我想請教，目前來講，在你上任之後你採取了這些報告中特別加入的內容，例如減少形式管理、訓練的方式，但這些改革措施，目前部隊的執行成效如何？你要求各單位取消離營宣教，以及要求幹部不可以在官兵休假時打電話詢問是否平安或去哪裡、幹什麼，這個部分有沒有落實？"],["顧部長立雄：離營的宣教沒有廢除吧，還是要宣教……"],["劉次長沛智：不是，不是離營宣教，是取消休假時的回報。"],["黃委員仁：對、對、對，沒有錯。"],["顧部長立雄：我想離營的宣教還是要進行的，只是取消要求他要回報這樣子的一個制度。"],["黃委員仁：但是現在很多我們鄉親、官兵在反映，反映什麼？第一個，部隊不僅沒有減少幹部的業務，反而讓部隊把簡單的事情做成一個複雜的工作。提醒部長，真正的問題在於觀念和執行的落實，部長如果要下令，卻沒有去瞭解實際的狀況或執行的話，這種改革等於只是紙上談兵，我也不希望基層官兵更加的苦不堪言，所以你要實際瞭解你所下達的這個命令，到底下面有沒有去執行，你來回答一下，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：是，我覺得委員指教的是對的，我應該要進行瞭解，就是說有沒有因為我想要達成比較人性化的管理，減少形式主義，然後用減法的思維，這件事情到底有沒有貫徹到基層，我應該要去瞭解。"],["黃委員仁：應該要去瞭解，因為現在官兵都苦不堪言啦，我想你要實際去瞭解，到底你所下達的這個命令，但下面執行時的困難點在哪裡，你要瞭解一下，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：是，應該的。"],["主席：謝謝黃仁委員，部長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是徐巧芯委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","洪申翰","林憶君","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林岱樺","鍾佳濱","馬文君","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","徐富癸","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉建國"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00001"}}}