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{\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 580.279, \"end\": 580.499, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"遵\", \"start\": 580.499, \"end\": 580.78, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"守\", \"start\": 580.78, \"end\": 580.8, \"score\": 0.313}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 581.8, \"end\": 581.88, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 581.88, \"end\": 581.9, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,322 --> 00:00:00,342\n請陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:22,478 --> 00:00:40,304\n部長好,公糧收購本來是對農民有益,對於台灣糧食安全有一個保障的狀態,結果現在處理成感覺好像變成一個政治問題了。部長我先簡單問你一下,那個山頭和颱風的時候,到目前為止的時候有多少的農損?\n\n3\n00:00:42,014 --> 00:00:43,095\n新竹市有2000多萬是不是?有沒有2000多?我記得\n\n4\n00:01:11,648 --> 00:01:13,090\n新竹市是多少?金額多少?\n\n5\n00:01:23,137 --> 00:01:42,943\n我可能會有再提供喔因為我請你查一下那我再問你一下喔凱米颱風的時候總共的那個農損大概金額是多少大概是20現在速報提出來是26億吧有沒有資料給我阿部長是36億那凱米颱風裡面有多少是新竹市的農損\n\n6\n00:01:46,737 --> 00:02:09,058\n你之後再跟我講一下我為什麼特別一開始提這個問題因為我發現我看到農損資料當中的時候其實都沒有新竹市的資料那有可能一個狀態是新竹市本來就不是農業大縣所以我看到你這邊提出來的一個那個農業部對於公糧收購的部分你提出了\n\n7\n00:02:10,186 --> 00:02:35,929\n一級二轉三加三這個部分你做了一個很清楚的一個比較我很認真的去看了一下可是我發現你裡面也是在玩數字遊戲那就把公糧收購講得很不堪啦那你剛剛也提到說全世界現在只剩台灣有公糧收購如果農業部真的覺得公糧收購這麼不應該的時候就取消嘛農業部有這個權責去做這個事情可是目前在做的時候呢整個立法院已經通過\n\n8\n00:02:38,011 --> 00:02:58,385\n113席委員會通過這個組決議的時候呢然後農業部完全不甩然後在這裡面把這個公糧收購講得很差啊就是說講到說整個會讓糧價短多長空然後會造成那個百米價格上漲造成民生衝擊民生消費然後講到說不利到\n\n9\n00:02:59,045 --> 00:02:59,465\n部長我讓你看一個東西\n\n10\n00:03:31,087 --> 00:03:47,226\n你知道那個對地綠色環境給付計畫你知道這個計畫吧對不對這個計畫我想請教一下部長他一開始裡面也有一個很大的一個目標就是希望能夠\n\n11\n00:03:49,059 --> 00:04:09,540\n來解決就是轉更的問題減少種植保價收購稻米的數量這是當時這個計畫推出來的時候很重要的一個目標我想請問一下部長第一期的時候總共預算多少錢這幾戶整個的話是totally大概是100億\n\n12\n00:04:13,574 --> 00:04:32,420\n對地綠色環境給付計畫它的整個經費來源是來自於農產品受進口損害救助基金一百億我不知道你的數字從哪裡我今天問了幾個數字部長你都沒有給我一個很清楚的數字我看到第一期從107年到110年整個預算基本是381.72億\n\n13\n00:04:38,939 --> 00:04:39,561\n你怎麼會只講這100億那另外280億到哪裡去\n\n14\n00:04:45,521 --> 00:05:05,665\n107到110大概是4年期的計畫4年的期的計畫那我剛剛說的大概大概是100億左右因為一年100億左右大概一年100億左右一年100億左右嘛齁第二期當中所以111年到114年目前還在第二期當中的時候總共是469.88億一年超過100億一年超過100億嘛對不對還有一個環境基本給付包括環境基本給付的部分理解齁一年超過100億嘛齁然後\n\n15\n00:05:14,332 --> 00:05:39,039\n部長你知道嗎在整個對地綠色環境給付計畫裡面平均每年我先把它算出來到目前為止平均每年有74.87億元獎勵金用在鼓勵轉作用在鼓勵轉作這個就是這一次我們在講公糧收購很重要的一個部分你提到一級二轉3加3這個裡面很大一部分就是希望就是\n\n16\n00:05:40,728 --> 00:05:55,376\n道米耕作的範圍不要太大然後我們看一下從106年到112年公糧到股那個收購的數量跟決算經費收購的量在這個地方收購量106、107、108、109持續的上漲可是我們從107年開始的時候這個對地綠色環境給付計畫就開始進行了\n\n17\n00:06:05,862 --> 00:06:06,363\n我跟委員報告齁\n\n18\n00:06:28,504 --> 00:06:45,958\n一百年開始我們推的四選三的部分就是四級稻作種三期所以我們盡量的把那個稻作面積往下降的時候所以那個公糧收購數量才會往下降是理由之一所以我要講一下狀態就是以我們現在每一年還有74億75億用在\n\n19\n00:06:50,602 --> 00:06:58,766\n對地綠色環境給付這個地方要轉做這個部分坦白說我看到這個部分按照你們之前提出來的預算\n\n20\n00:07:00,970 --> 00:07:21,763\n每公斤上漲5塊錢的預算大概只增加14.46億你們原本提出來預算本來就有一個公糧收購預算再加14.46億就可以達到就是112年的標準如果按照109年的高標準來說的時候是增加27.30億其實坦白說對於整個\n\n21\n00:07:23,044 --> 00:07:31,800\n明年你們所提出來的總預算當中的時候增加器都非常的有限所以我覺得感覺上\n\n22\n00:07:33,462 --> 00:08:01,148\n公糧收購價格農業部不願意提高我覺得已經不是很直接是一個農業上面的問題而變成一個政治上的問題所以剛剛為什麼很多委員提到說整個立法院裡面113席委員通過的一個決議你們都不願意遵守我跟委員報告我們我們剛才您所提的一些包括環境基本幾乎對地預設幾乎其實都是在希望水稻的面積不要增加\n\n23\n00:08:02,244 --> 00:08:02,864\n部長你提這個部分其實坦白說我是能夠理解聽得進去的\n\n24\n00:08:20,149 --> 00:08:21,530\n新竹的部分我們有查到大概二十幾萬各十百千萬次\n\n25\n00:08:48,234 --> 00:08:54,656\n這個部分你之後再來跟我報告因為我看到所有資料當中我只是要提高提出一個觀點就是說我們在看這個預算我們有一個客觀的標準在看坦白說我沒有農民選民的一個壓力\n\n26\n00:09:08,001 --> 00:09:21,475\n所以我在看這個部分我聽得進去你講的東西可是我也看到你提出不合理的狀態你在玩數字遊戲對於整個公糧收購的部分的時候你就是打死不願意去做提出很多的理由可是對我來說我把這個\n\n27\n00:09:24,393 --> 00:09:40,800\n對綠對地綠色環境幾乎計畫拿來做個比較你會發現有怎麼樣的不合理如果說部長這邊要做更多的說明就是之後再到本辦公室來做一個細部我會再跟委員安排一個時間但我們認為立法院通過的決議行政部門一定要尊重一定要遵守\n\n28\n00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:41,900\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n322\t342\t請陳部長\n22478\t40304\t部長好,公糧收購本來是對農民有益,對於台灣糧食安全有一個保障的狀態,結果現在處理成感覺好像變成一個政治問題了。部長我先簡單問你一下,那個山頭和颱風的時候,到目前為止的時候有多少的農損?\n42014\t43095\t新竹市有2000多萬是不是?有沒有2000多?我記得\n71648\t73090\t新竹市是多少?金額多少?\n83137\t102943\t我可能會有再提供喔 因為我請你查一下那我再問你一下喔 凱米颱風的時候 總共的那個農損大概金額是多少大概是20 現在速報提出來是26億吧 有沒有資料給我阿部長是36億 那凱米颱風裡面有多少是新竹市的農損\n106737\t129058\t你之後再跟我講一下我為什麼特別一開始提這個問題因為我發現我看到農損資料當中的時候其實都沒有新竹市的資料那有可能一個狀態是新竹市本來就不是農業大縣所以我看到你這邊提出來的一個那個農業部對於公糧收購的部分你提出了\n130186\t155929\t一級二轉三加三這個部分你做了一個很清楚的一個比較我很認真的去看了一下可是我發現你裡面也是在玩數字遊戲那就把公糧收購講得很不堪啦那你剛剛也提到說全世界現在只剩台灣有公糧收購如果農業部真的覺得公糧收購這麼不應該的時候就取消嘛農業部有這個權責去做這個事情可是目前在做的時候呢整個立法院已經通過\n158011\t178385\t113席委員會通過這個組決議的時候呢然後農業部完全不甩然後在這裡面把這個公糧收購講得很差啊就是說講到說整個會讓糧價短多長空然後會造成那個百米價格上漲造成民生衝擊民生消費然後講到說不利到\n179045\t179465\t部長我讓你看一個東西\n211087\t227226\t你知道那個對地綠色環境給付計畫你知道這個計畫吧對不對這個計畫我想請教一下部長他一開始裡面也有一個很大的一個目標就是希望能夠\n229059\t249540\t來解決就是轉更的問題減少種植保價收購稻米的數量這是當時這個計畫推出來的時候很重要的一個目標我想請問一下部長第一期的時候總共預算多少錢這幾戶整個的話是totally大概是100億\n253574\t272420\t對地綠色環境給付計畫它的整個經費來源是來自於農產品受進口損害救助基金一百億我不知道你的數字從哪裡我今天問了幾個數字部長你都沒有給我一個很清楚的數字我看到第一期從107年到110年整個預算基本是381.72億\n278939\t279561\t你怎麼會只講這100億那另外280億到哪裡去\n285521\t305665\t107到110大概是4年期的計畫4年的期的計畫那我剛剛說的大概大概是100億左右因為一年100億左右大概一年100億左右一年100億左右嘛齁第二期當中所以111年到114年目前還在第二期當中的時候總共是469.88億一年超過100億一年超過100億嘛對不對還有一個環境基本給付包括環境基本給付的部分理解齁一年超過100億嘛齁然後\n314332\t339039\t部長你知道嗎在整個對地綠色環境給付計畫裡面平均每年我先把它算出來到目前為止平均每年有74.87億元獎勵金用在鼓勵轉作用在鼓勵轉作這個就是這一次我們在講公糧收購很重要的一個部分你提到一級二轉3加3這個裡面很大一部分就是希望就是\n340728\t355376\t道米耕作的範圍不要太大然後我們看一下從106年到112年公糧到股那個收購的數量跟決算經費收購的量在這個地方收購量106、107、108、109持續的上漲可是我們從107年開始的時候這個對地綠色環境給付計畫就開始進行了\n365862\t366363\t我跟委員報告齁\n388504\t405958\t一百年開始我們推的四選三的部分就是四級稻作種三期所以我們盡量的把那個稻作面積往下降的時候所以那個公糧收購數量才會往下降是 理由之一 所以我要講一下狀態就是以我們現在每一年還有74億 75億用在\n410602\t418766\t對地綠色環境給付這個地方要轉做這個部分坦白說我看到這個部分按照你們之前提出來的預算\n420970\t441763\t每公斤上漲5塊錢的預算大概只增加14.46億你們原本提出來預算本來就有一個公糧收購預算再加14.46億就可以達到就是112年的標準如果按照109年的高標準來說的時候是增加27.30億其實坦白說對於整個\n443044\t451800\t明年你們所提出來的總預算當中的時候增加器都非常的有限所以我覺得感覺上\n453462\t481148\t公糧收購價格 農業部不願意提高我覺得已經不是很直接是一個農業上面的問題而變成一個政治上的問題所以剛剛為什麼很多委員提到說整個立法院裡面113席委員通過的一個決議你們都不願意遵守我跟委員報告我們我們剛才您所提的一些包括環境基本幾乎對地預設幾乎其實都是在希望水稻的面積不要增加\n482244\t482864\t部長你提這個部分其實坦白說我是能夠理解聽得進去的\n500149\t501530\t新竹的部分我們有查到大概二十幾萬各十百千萬次\n528234\t534656\t這個部分你之後再來跟我報告因為我看到所有資料當中我只是要提高提出一個觀點就是說我們在看這個預算我們有一個客觀的標準在看坦白說我沒有農民選民的一個壓力\n548001\t561475\t所以我在看這個部分我聽得進去你講的東西可是我也看到你提出不合理的狀態你在玩數字遊戲對於整個公糧收購的部分的時候你就是打死不願意去做提出很多的理由可是對我來說我把這個\n564393\t580800\t對綠對地綠色環境幾乎計畫拿來做個比較你會發現有怎麼樣的不合理如果說部長這邊要做更多的說明就是之後再到本辦公室來做一個細部我會再跟委員安排一個時間但我們認為立法院通過的決議行政部門一定要尊重一定要遵守\n581800\t581900\t主席\n","txt":"請陳部長\n部長好,公糧收購本來是對農民有益,對於台灣糧食安全有一個保障的狀態,結果現在處理成感覺好像變成一個政治問題了。部長我先簡單問你一下,那個山頭和颱風的時候,到目前為止的時候有多少的農損?\n新竹市有2000多萬是不是?有沒有2000多?我記得\n新竹市是多少?金額多少?\n我可能會有再提供喔 因為我請你查一下那我再問你一下喔 凱米颱風的時候 總共的那個農損大概金額是多少大概是20 現在速報提出來是26億吧 有沒有資料給我阿部長是36億 那凱米颱風裡面有多少是新竹市的農損\n你之後再跟我講一下我為什麼特別一開始提這個問題因為我發現我看到農損資料當中的時候其實都沒有新竹市的資料那有可能一個狀態是新竹市本來就不是農業大縣所以我看到你這邊提出來的一個那個農業部對於公糧收購的部分你提出了\n一級二轉三加三這個部分你做了一個很清楚的一個比較我很認真的去看了一下可是我發現你裡面也是在玩數字遊戲那就把公糧收購講得很不堪啦那你剛剛也提到說全世界現在只剩台灣有公糧收購如果農業部真的覺得公糧收購這麼不應該的時候就取消嘛農業部有這個權責去做這個事情可是目前在做的時候呢整個立法院已經通過\n113席委員會通過這個組決議的時候呢然後農業部完全不甩然後在這裡面把這個公糧收購講得很差啊就是說講到說整個會讓糧價短多長空然後會造成那個百米價格上漲造成民生衝擊民生消費然後講到說不利到\n部長我讓你看一個東西\n你知道那個對地綠色環境給付計畫你知道這個計畫吧對不對這個計畫我想請教一下部長他一開始裡面也有一個很大的一個目標就是希望能夠\n來解決就是轉更的問題減少種植保價收購稻米的數量這是當時這個計畫推出來的時候很重要的一個目標我想請問一下部長第一期的時候總共預算多少錢這幾戶整個的話是totally大概是100億\n對地綠色環境給付計畫它的整個經費來源是來自於農產品受進口損害救助基金一百億我不知道你的數字從哪裡我今天問了幾個數字部長你都沒有給我一個很清楚的數字我看到第一期從107年到110年整個預算基本是381.72億\n你怎麼會只講這100億那另外280億到哪裡去\n107到110大概是4年期的計畫4年的期的計畫那我剛剛說的大概大概是100億左右因為一年100億左右大概一年100億左右一年100億左右嘛齁第二期當中所以111年到114年目前還在第二期當中的時候總共是469.88億一年超過100億一年超過100億嘛對不對還有一個環境基本給付包括環境基本給付的部分理解齁一年超過100億嘛齁然後\n部長你知道嗎在整個對地綠色環境給付計畫裡面平均每年我先把它算出來到目前為止平均每年有74.87億元獎勵金用在鼓勵轉作用在鼓勵轉作這個就是這一次我們在講公糧收購很重要的一個部分你提到一級二轉3加3這個裡面很大一部分就是希望就是\n道米耕作的範圍不要太大然後我們看一下從106年到112年公糧到股那個收購的數量跟決算經費收購的量在這個地方收購量106、107、108、109持續的上漲可是我們從107年開始的時候這個對地綠色環境給付計畫就開始進行了\n我跟委員報告齁\n一百年開始我們推的四選三的部分就是四級稻作種三期所以我們盡量的把那個稻作面積往下降的時候所以那個公糧收購數量才會往下降是 理由之一 所以我要講一下狀態就是以我們現在每一年還有74億 75億用在\n對地綠色環境給付這個地方要轉做這個部分坦白說我看到這個部分按照你們之前提出來的預算\n每公斤上漲5塊錢的預算大概只增加14.46億你們原本提出來預算本來就有一個公糧收購預算再加14.46億就可以達到就是112年的標準如果按照109年的高標準來說的時候是增加27.30億其實坦白說對於整個\n明年你們所提出來的總預算當中的時候增加器都非常的有限所以我覺得感覺上\n公糧收購價格 農業部不願意提高我覺得已經不是很直接是一個農業上面的問題而變成一個政治上的問題所以剛剛為什麼很多委員提到說整個立法院裡面113席委員通過的一個決議你們都不願意遵守我跟委員報告我們我們剛才您所提的一些包括環境基本幾乎對地預設幾乎其實都是在希望水稻的面積不要增加\n部長你提這個部分其實坦白說我是能夠理解聽得進去的\n新竹的部分我們有查到大概二十幾萬各十百千萬次\n這個部分你之後再來跟我報告因為我看到所有資料當中我只是要提高提出一個觀點就是說我們在看這個預算我們有一個客觀的標準在看坦白說我沒有農民選民的一個壓力\n所以我在看這個部分我聽得進去你講的東西可是我也看到你提出不合理的狀態你在玩數字遊戲對於整個公糧收購的部分的時候你就是打死不願意去做提出很多的理由可是對我來說我把這個\n對綠對地綠色環境幾乎計畫拿來做個比較你會發現有怎麼樣的不合理如果說部長這邊要做更多的說明就是之後再到本辦公室來做一個細部我會再跟委員安排一個時間但我們認為立法院通過的決議行政部門一定要尊重一定要遵守\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.322 --> 00:00.342\n請陳部長\n\n00:22.478 --> 00:40.304\n部長好,公糧收購本來是對農民有益,對於台灣糧食安全有一個保障的狀態,結果現在處理成感覺好像變成一個政治問題了。部長我先簡單問你一下,那個山頭和颱風的時候,到目前為止的時候有多少的農損?\n\n00:42.014 --> 00:43.095\n新竹市有2000多萬是不是?有沒有2000多?我記得\n\n01:11.648 --> 01:13.090\n新竹市是多少?金額多少?\n\n01:23.137 --> 01:42.943\n我可能會有再提供喔因為我請你查一下那我再問你一下喔凱米颱風的時候總共的那個農損大概金額是多少大概是20現在速報提出來是26億吧有沒有資料給我阿部長是36億那凱米颱風裡面有多少是新竹市的農損\n\n01:46.737 --> 02:09.058\n你之後再跟我講一下我為什麼特別一開始提這個問題因為我發現我看到農損資料當中的時候其實都沒有新竹市的資料那有可能一個狀態是新竹市本來就不是農業大縣所以我看到你這邊提出來的一個那個農業部對於公糧收購的部分你提出了\n\n02:10.186 --> 02:35.929\n一級二轉三加三這個部分你做了一個很清楚的一個比較我很認真的去看了一下可是我發現你裡面也是在玩數字遊戲那就把公糧收購講得很不堪啦那你剛剛也提到說全世界現在只剩台灣有公糧收購如果農業部真的覺得公糧收購這麼不應該的時候就取消嘛農業部有這個權責去做這個事情可是目前在做的時候呢整個立法院已經通過\n\n02:38.011 --> 02:58.385\n113席委員會通過這個組決議的時候呢然後農業部完全不甩然後在這裡面把這個公糧收購講得很差啊就是說講到說整個會讓糧價短多長空然後會造成那個百米價格上漲造成民生衝擊民生消費然後講到說不利到\n\n02:59.045 --> 02:59.465\n部長我讓你看一個東西\n\n03:31.087 --> 03:47.226\n你知道那個對地綠色環境給付計畫你知道這個計畫吧對不對這個計畫我想請教一下部長他一開始裡面也有一個很大的一個目標就是希望能夠\n\n03:49.059 --> 04:09.540\n來解決就是轉更的問題減少種植保價收購稻米的數量這是當時這個計畫推出來的時候很重要的一個目標我想請問一下部長第一期的時候總共預算多少錢這幾戶整個的話是totally大概是100億\n\n04:13.574 --> 04:32.420\n對地綠色環境給付計畫它的整個經費來源是來自於農產品受進口損害救助基金一百億我不知道你的數字從哪裡我今天問了幾個數字部長你都沒有給我一個很清楚的數字我看到第一期從107年到110年整個預算基本是381.72億\n\n04:38.939 --> 04:39.561\n你怎麼會只講這100億那另外280億到哪裡去\n\n04:45.521 --> 05:05.665\n107到110大概是4年期的計畫4年的期的計畫那我剛剛說的大概大概是100億左右因為一年100億左右大概一年100億左右一年100億左右嘛齁第二期當中所以111年到114年目前還在第二期當中的時候總共是469.88億一年超過100億一年超過100億嘛對不對還有一個環境基本給付包括環境基本給付的部分理解齁一年超過100億嘛齁然後\n\n05:14.332 --> 05:39.039\n部長你知道嗎在整個對地綠色環境給付計畫裡面平均每年我先把它算出來到目前為止平均每年有74.87億元獎勵金用在鼓勵轉作用在鼓勵轉作這個就是這一次我們在講公糧收購很重要的一個部分你提到一級二轉3加3這個裡面很大一部分就是希望就是\n\n05:40.728 --> 05:55.376\n道米耕作的範圍不要太大然後我們看一下從106年到112年公糧到股那個收購的數量跟決算經費收購的量在這個地方收購量106、107、108、109持續的上漲可是我們從107年開始的時候這個對地綠色環境給付計畫就開始進行了\n\n06:05.862 --> 06:06.363\n我跟委員報告齁\n\n06:28.504 --> 06:45.958\n一百年開始我們推的四選三的部分就是四級稻作種三期所以我們盡量的把那個稻作面積往下降的時候所以那個公糧收購數量才會往下降是理由之一所以我要講一下狀態就是以我們現在每一年還有74億75億用在\n\n06:50.602 --> 06:58.766\n對地綠色環境給付這個地方要轉做這個部分坦白說我看到這個部分按照你們之前提出來的預算\n\n07:00.970 --> 07:21.763\n每公斤上漲5塊錢的預算大概只增加14.46億你們原本提出來預算本來就有一個公糧收購預算再加14.46億就可以達到就是112年的標準如果按照109年的高標準來說的時候是增加27.30億其實坦白說對於整個\n\n07:23.044 --> 07:31.800\n明年你們所提出來的總預算當中的時候增加器都非常的有限所以我覺得感覺上\n\n07:33.462 --> 08:01.148\n公糧收購價格農業部不願意提高我覺得已經不是很直接是一個農業上面的問題而變成一個政治上的問題所以剛剛為什麼很多委員提到說整個立法院裡面113席委員通過的一個決議你們都不願意遵守我跟委員報告我們我們剛才您所提的一些包括環境基本幾乎對地預設幾乎其實都是在希望水稻的面積不要增加\n\n08:02.244 --> 08:02.864\n部長你提這個部分其實坦白說我是能夠理解聽得進去的\n\n08:20.149 --> 08:21.530\n新竹的部分我們有查到大概二十幾萬各十百千萬次\n\n08:48.234 --> 08:54.656\n這個部分你之後再來跟我報告因為我看到所有資料當中我只是要提高提出一個觀點就是說我們在看這個預算我們有一個客觀的標準在看坦白說我沒有農民選民的一個壓力\n\n09:08.001 --> 09:21.475\n所以我在看這個部分我聽得進去你講的東西可是我也看到你提出不合理的狀態你在玩數字遊戲對於整個公糧收購的部分的時候你就是打死不願意去做提出很多的理由可是對我來說我把這個\n\n09:24.393 --> 09:40.800\n對綠對地綠色環境幾乎計畫拿來做個比較你會發現有怎麼樣的不合理如果說部長這邊要做更多的說明就是之後再到本辦公室來做一個細部我會再跟委員安排一個時間但我們認為立法院通過的決議行政部門一定要尊重一定要遵守\n\n09:41.800 --> 09:41.900\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.322,"end":0.342,"text":"請陳部長"},{"start":22.478,"end":40.304,"text":"部長好,公糧收購本來是對農民有益,對於台灣糧食安全有一個保障的狀態,結果現在處理成感覺好像變成一個政治問題了。部長我先簡單問你一下,那個山頭和颱風的時候,到目前為止的時候有多少的農損?"},{"start":42.014,"end":43.095,"text":"新竹市有2000多萬是不是?有沒有2000多?我記得"},{"start":71.648,"end":73.09,"text":"新竹市是多少?金額多少?"},{"start":83.137,"end":102.943,"text":"我可能會有再提供喔 因為我請你查一下那我再問你一下喔 凱米颱風的時候 總共的那個農損大概金額是多少大概是20 現在速報提出來是26億吧 有沒有資料給我阿部長是36億 那凱米颱風裡面有多少是新竹市的農損"},{"start":106.737,"end":129.058,"text":"你之後再跟我講一下我為什麼特別一開始提這個問題因為我發現我看到農損資料當中的時候其實都沒有新竹市的資料那有可能一個狀態是新竹市本來就不是農業大縣所以我看到你這邊提出來的一個那個農業部對於公糧收購的部分你提出了"},{"start":130.186,"end":155.929,"text":"一級二轉三加三這個部分你做了一個很清楚的一個比較我很認真的去看了一下可是我發現你裡面也是在玩數字遊戲那就把公糧收購講得很不堪啦那你剛剛也提到說全世界現在只剩台灣有公糧收購如果農業部真的覺得公糧收購這麼不應該的時候就取消嘛農業部有這個權責去做這個事情可是目前在做的時候呢整個立法院已經通過"},{"start":158.011,"end":178.385,"text":"113席委員會通過這個組決議的時候呢然後農業部完全不甩然後在這裡面把這個公糧收購講得很差啊就是說講到說整個會讓糧價短多長空然後會造成那個百米價格上漲造成民生衝擊民生消費然後講到說不利到"},{"start":179.045,"end":179.465,"text":"部長我讓你看一個東西"},{"start":211.087,"end":227.226,"text":"你知道那個對地綠色環境給付計畫你知道這個計畫吧對不對這個計畫我想請教一下部長他一開始裡面也有一個很大的一個目標就是希望能夠"},{"start":229.059,"end":249.54,"text":"來解決就是轉更的問題減少種植保價收購稻米的數量這是當時這個計畫推出來的時候很重要的一個目標我想請問一下部長第一期的時候總共預算多少錢這幾戶整個的話是totally大概是100億"},{"start":253.574,"end":272.42,"text":"對地綠色環境給付計畫它的整個經費來源是來自於農產品受進口損害救助基金一百億我不知道你的數字從哪裡我今天問了幾個數字部長你都沒有給我一個很清楚的數字我看到第一期從107年到110年整個預算基本是381.72億"},{"start":278.939,"end":279.561,"text":"你怎麼會只講這100億那另外280億到哪裡去"},{"start":285.521,"end":305.665,"text":"107到110大概是4年期的計畫4年的期的計畫那我剛剛說的大概大概是100億左右因為一年100億左右大概一年100億左右一年100億左右嘛齁第二期當中所以111年到114年目前還在第二期當中的時候總共是469.88億一年超過100億一年超過100億嘛對不對還有一個環境基本給付包括環境基本給付的部分理解齁一年超過100億嘛齁然後"},{"start":314.332,"end":339.039,"text":"部長你知道嗎在整個對地綠色環境給付計畫裡面平均每年我先把它算出來到目前為止平均每年有74.87億元獎勵金用在鼓勵轉作用在鼓勵轉作這個就是這一次我們在講公糧收購很重要的一個部分你提到一級二轉3加3這個裡面很大一部分就是希望就是"},{"start":340.728,"end":355.376,"text":"道米耕作的範圍不要太大然後我們看一下從106年到112年公糧到股那個收購的數量跟決算經費收購的量在這個地方收購量106、107、108、109持續的上漲可是我們從107年開始的時候這個對地綠色環境給付計畫就開始進行了"},{"start":365.862,"end":366.363,"text":"我跟委員報告齁"},{"start":388.504,"end":405.958,"text":"一百年開始我們推的四選三的部分就是四級稻作種三期所以我們盡量的把那個稻作面積往下降的時候所以那個公糧收購數量才會往下降是 理由之一 所以我要講一下狀態就是以我們現在每一年還有74億 75億用在"},{"start":410.602,"end":418.766,"text":"對地綠色環境給付這個地方要轉做這個部分坦白說我看到這個部分按照你們之前提出來的預算"},{"start":420.97,"end":441.763,"text":"每公斤上漲5塊錢的預算大概只增加14.46億你們原本提出來預算本來就有一個公糧收購預算再加14.46億就可以達到就是112年的標準如果按照109年的高標準來說的時候是增加27.30億其實坦白說對於整個"},{"start":443.044,"end":451.8,"text":"明年你們所提出來的總預算當中的時候增加器都非常的有限所以我覺得感覺上"},{"start":453.462,"end":481.148,"text":"公糧收購價格 農業部不願意提高我覺得已經不是很直接是一個農業上面的問題而變成一個政治上的問題所以剛剛為什麼很多委員提到說整個立法院裡面113席委員通過的一個決議你們都不願意遵守我跟委員報告我們我們剛才您所提的一些包括環境基本幾乎對地預設幾乎其實都是在希望水稻的面積不要增加"},{"start":482.244,"end":482.864,"text":"部長你提這個部分其實坦白說我是能夠理解聽得進去的"},{"start":500.149,"end":501.53,"text":"新竹的部分我們有查到大概二十幾萬各十百千萬次"},{"start":528.234,"end":534.656,"text":"這個部分你之後再來跟我報告因為我看到所有資料當中我只是要提高提出一個觀點就是說我們在看這個預算我們有一個客觀的標準在看坦白說我沒有農民選民的一個壓力"},{"start":548.001,"end":561.475,"text":"所以我在看這個部分我聽得進去你講的東西可是我也看到你提出不合理的狀態你在玩數字遊戲對於整個公糧收購的部分的時候你就是打死不願意去做提出很多的理由可是對我來說我把這個"},{"start":564.393,"end":580.8,"text":"對綠對地綠色環境幾乎計畫拿來做個比較你會發現有怎麼樣的不合理如果說部長這邊要做更多的說明就是之後再到本辦公室來做一個細部我會再跟委員安排一個時間但我們認為立法院通過的決議行政部門一定要尊重一定要遵守"},{"start":581.8,"end":581.9,"text":"主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":315,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時12分）謝謝主席，我想請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長好。公糧收購本來是一個對農民有益，然後對於臺灣糧食安全有一個保障的狀態，結果現在處理成感覺好像變成一個政治問題了。部長，我先簡單問你一下，受山陀兒颱風的影響，到目前為止有多少的農損？"],["陳部長駿季：山陀兒颱風到目前，速報的方式大概是五億五、五億六左右。"],["鄭委員正鈐：跟你更新一下，到10月15號的時候大概已經有6.3億的農損，裡面有多少是新竹市的？"],["陳部長駿季：新竹市的大概兩千多萬吧。"],["鄭委員正鈐：新竹市兩千多萬喔？我從這個數字當中是沒有看到，新竹市有兩千多萬，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：這次山陀兒颱風比較受到影響的民眾是高雄、屏東……"],["鄭委員正鈐：新竹市有沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：我記得比較少啦。"],["鄭委員正鈐：新竹市是多少？金額多少？"],["陳部長駿季：我可能會後再提供，我請他們查一下。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，好。我再問你一下，凱米颱風的時候，總共的農損金額大概是多少？"],["陳部長駿季：現在速報提出來是26億。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長，是36億。凱米颱風裡面有多少是新竹市的農損？"],["陳部長駿季：這個我可能還要再查。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，你之後再跟我講一下。我為什麼特別一開始提這個問題，因為我發現我看到的農損資料其實都沒有新竹市的資料，有可能的狀態是新竹市本來就不是農業大縣，所以我看到農業部對於公糧收購的部分，你提出了「1集、2轉、3加3」的這個部分，你做了一個很清楚的比較，我很認真地去看了一下，可是我發現你裡面也是在玩數字遊戲，就把公糧收購講得很不堪啦，你剛剛也提到全世界現在只剩臺灣有公糧收購，如果農業部真的覺得公糧收購這麼不應該的話，就取消嘛！農業部有權責去做這個事情，可是整個立法院、113席委員都已經通過這個主決議，然後農業部完全不甩，然後在這裡面把公糧收購講得很差啊，講到整個會讓糧價短多長空，還會造成白米價格上漲，衝擊民生消費，然後還講到不利稻米產業發展，對於已轉雜糧旱作農地恐會恢復稻種，影響糧食安全及水資源分配，這都是你講的，針對公糧收購所產生的不利影響，你講的都一定有道理，我們在做研究一定也都會這樣子，那你提到「1集、2轉、3加3」只要16.5億元就可以解決這麼多的問題，我真的是覺得很疑惑啦！","部長，我讓你看一個東西，你知道對地綠色環境給付計畫，你知道這個計畫吧，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：了解。"],["鄭委員正鈐：這個計畫我想請教一下部長，這個一開始裡面也有一個很大的目標，就是希望能夠解決轉耕的問題，減少種植保價收購稻米的數量，這是當時這個計畫推出來時很重要的一個目標，我想請問一下部長，第一期總共預算多少錢？"],["陳部長駿季：整個預算給付totally大概是100億。"],["鄭委員正鈐：100億？"],["陳部長駿季：totally，因為對地綠色環境給付有不同的層次。"],["鄭委員正鈐：對地綠色環境給付計畫的整個經費來源是來自於農產品受進口損害救助基金，100億，我不知道你的數字從哪裡來？我今天問了幾個數字，部長，你都沒有給我一個很清楚的數字，我看到第一期從107年到110年，整個預算經費是381.72億耶，你怎麼會講只有100億？另外281億到哪裡去？"],["陳部長駿季：107到110是四年期的計畫，我剛剛說的大概是100億左右……"],["鄭委員正鈐：一年100億左右，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：大概一年100億左右，對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：一年100億左右嘛。第二期是從111年到114年，目前還在第二期當中，總共是469.88億，一年超過100億。"],["陳部長駿季：也是四年的部分。"],["鄭委員正鈐：一年超過100億嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：那還有一個環境基本給付，包括環境基本給付的部分。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解，一年超過100億。部長，你知道嗎？在整個對地綠色環境給付計畫裡面，我去把它算出來喔！到目前為止平均每年有74.87億元獎勵金用在鼓勵轉作，這就是這次我們在講公糧收購很重要的一個部分，你提到「1集、2轉、3加3」，這裡面很大一部分就是希望稻米耕作的範圍不要太大。然後我們看一下，從106年到112年，公糧稻穀保價收購數量跟決算經費，收購的量在這個地方，106年、107年、108年、109年，持續地上漲，可是從107年開始，對地綠色環境給付計畫就開始進行了，每年投入了74億、75億元在做轉作這個部分，效果顯然有限嘛；在110年的時候收購數量跟收購價格往下down的原因，110年、111年、112年都是因為缺水停灌這個原因，所以我要……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，不只，我跟委員報告，110年開始，我們推了四選三的部分，就是四期稻作種三期，所以我們儘量的把稻作面積往下down……"],["鄭委員正鈐：這是理由之一嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：所以它的公糧收購數量才會往下降。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，理由之一。所以我要講一下這個狀態，就是以我們現在每一年還有74億、75億用在對地綠色環境給付要轉作的這個部分，坦白說，我看到這個部分，按照你們之前提出來的預算，每公斤上漲5塊錢的預算，大概只增加14.46億，用你們原本提出來的預算，本來就有一個公糧收購預算，再加14.46億就可以達到112年的標準，如果按照109年的高標準來說是增加27.3億，其實坦白說，對於明年你們所提出來的總預算當中，增加其實都非常有限。所以農業部不願意提高公糧收購價格，我覺得已經不是很直接是農業上的問題，而變成一個政治上的問題，所以剛剛為什麼很多委員提到整個立法院113席委員通過的決議，你們都不願意遵守。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，剛才您所舉例的一些，包括環境基本給付、對地綠色給付，其實都是在希望水稻的面積不要增加，當我們用很多的力量想辦法要去壓低水稻的面積，另一方面如果提高公糧價格，就會造成我過往所有投入的效果都不見了。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長，你提這個部分，其實坦白說我是能夠理解、聽得進去的，可是我覺得以目前整個預算，公糧收購價格的預算跟我們看到花在農業部其他領域的預算，我覺得是不合理的，所以我剛剛為什麼一開始會提到新竹市相關跟農業有關的農損資料，這個部分我只是要跟你講，我在看這個數字的時候相對客觀……"],["陳部長駿季：新竹的部分，我們有查到大概是二十幾萬，大概二十一萬三千多是其他產業的損失。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK！這個部分你之後再來跟我報告，因為我看到所有資料當中，我只是要提出一個觀點，我們在看這個預算，我們有一個客觀的標準在看，坦白說，我沒有農民選民的壓力，所以我在看這個部分，我聽得進去你講的東西，可是我也看到你提出不合理的狀態，你在玩數字遊戲，對於整個公糧收購的部分，你就是打死不願意去做，提出很多理由，可是對我來說，我把對地綠色環境給付計畫拿來做個比較，你就會發現有怎麼樣的不合理，如果部長這邊要做更多的說明，就是之後再到本席辦公室來做一個細部的溝通，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我會再跟委員安排、約一個時間。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我們認為立法院通過的決議，行政部門一定要尊重、一定要遵守，依法行政是最簡單的一個邏輯，我們希望行政部門不要把所有的問題，包括對於農民的保障，都把它變成一個政治議題在做處理，我覺得這樣對整個臺灣的發展是不利的，好不好？謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：是，好，謝謝。"],["主席（鄭委員正鈐代）：我們接下來請呂玉玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-6","speakers":["呂玉玲","張嘉郡","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","洪申翰","陳超明","鄭天財Sra 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