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00:00:49,054\n部長我今天主要還是就你們這次業務報告的有關憲法法庭死刑判決的核心解釋這部分去討論那我想說我們今天就不要聚焦在很混亂的地方而聚焦在精神心智缺陷或是精神障礙不得判處死刑就我們都很清楚這一次大法官其實\n\n3\n00:00:50,573 --> 00:01:14,763\n這次大法官他的判決其實我個人認為這是一個完全宿愛裁判的一個憲判那他對於這個精神障礙的部分他從行為時、審判時跟執行時他設了三個關卡那這個都是以前沒有的概念那因為以前我們只知道刑法19條是以行為時為判斷基礎那這次大法官他直接又下了一大堆\n\n4\n00:01:16,483 --> 00:01:41,912\n根本我覺得以前就從來沒想過的東西在裡面那這個處處其實很簡單嘛這就是實質廢死啦這就實質廢死這不用在那邊跟我們在那邊玩文字遊戲說這不叫實質廢死然後講了一大堆五四三的那個都在騙國人那部長你知不知道這次大法官有點名三個死刑犯就他們審理的時候有無金帳有無自我辯護的能力不得判死這個部長知道吧\n\n5\n00:01:43,201 --> 00:01:46,182\n現行法律有規定審判不得判死嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:04,241 --> 00:02:29,235\n現在目前是沒有現行就是19條以行為死為主這個我們大家都很清楚那依據你們的報告你們會依據大法官的指示就是修法前不能執行死刑修法後要幫他們非常上訴對不對這你應該知道這你們自己寫的東西嘛好那我再來提到一個當初殺了他的媽媽婆婆先生的這個林于如\n\n7\n00:02:37,310 --> 00:02:50,523\n大法官認為他審判的時候有精神障礙導致自我辨識能力不足不能判死刑而且兩年內要修法那這個東西他的律師說智能不足這個部長你知道怎麼回事嗎\n\n8\n00:02:53,047 --> 00:03:01,984\n這個是一個個案的話我不清楚他這個這個個案的智能不足的好那我跟你講齁這個他所謂個案的智能不足就是他在某一次\n\n9\n00:03:03,726 --> 00:03:26,062\n審理的時候法官給他做智力測驗,測定他只有57那這個理由來當作不能判死刑的理由我這覺得是蠻離譜的啦因為你要知道一個智商110的人他要演成自己是57很容易那你57要演成110是很難那如果這樣子的話這種智能鑑定就可以當作是一個理由\n\n10\n00:03:27,023 --> 00:03:27,043\n吳宗憲\n\n11\n00:03:35,680 --> 00:04:02,543\n大法官他的這些想法我也只能說看為觀止大法官其實就是為這37個死刑犯在那邊秀喵喵要盡量的保護他們那像李玉如這個案子他在三省也有做延遲辯論所以他的程序完備那程序完備的時候大法官就幫他找一個理由說他曾經有救省能力有問題智力只有57然後這樣子來去做這樣子的對法務部的要求\n\n12\n00:04:04,664 --> 00:04:23,254\n我個人完全不認同,我也希望說部長能夠稍微了解一下這個案子因為你們自己業務報告這個案件現在這個死刑犯的這些,確定死刑犯的這些現在是一憲判一職,現在就是要由總長來審核\n\n13\n00:04:26,327 --> 00:04:27,968\n一個人在行為時懂得用藥處理自己的先生\n\n14\n00:04:43,036 --> 00:05:05,475\n那那個藥是什麼藥要去哪裡買我都不知道了結果他竟然知道他也知道要還賭債知道要詐領保險金知道要預謀殺人知道希望檢察官趕快給他的手上證明書這些他都清清楚楚他甚至比很多代書都還要厲害了比很多律師都還要懂了結果大家認為說他就審能力有問題這個就是我要點出來現在實務上面\n\n15\n00:05:07,356 --> 00:05:36,251\n會遇到的一個問題就是當事人只要在庭上裝瘋賣傻在那邊填寫錯誤的智力測驗的答案那今天他就可以逃過死刑那這是我對於現在大法官的認定出來我的見解啦那當然我也是看看總長以後會怎麼做決策我會去等著看嘛就大家來看看總長會怎麼做決定啦所以只以智力測驗就可以認定有無精神障礙心智缺陷我真的是完全的不認同\n\n16\n00:05:37,898 --> 00:06:07,097\n那這個根本就是加上了以前法律19條以外根本就沒有這樣的規範嘛那加這個規範的目的是什麼我也不懂啦所以大法官現在變成是繼承法官的太上皇像林玉如的案子總共有19位法官審過結果就幾個大法官他最後做出來的先判決推翻了他們以前的死刑確定判決這我看到的整個程序走到今天就是這個樣子所以呢是不是大法官自己在違憲\n\n17\n00:06:08,378 --> 00:06:08,398\n吳宗憲\n\n18\n00:06:28,852 --> 00:06:48,232\n我後來發現很多民眾把大法官跟法官混在一起了其實法官是法官大法官是大法官大法官是執政者認命的根本跟一般普通法院的法官不一樣很多人民搞錯了很多政治人物就故意在誤導人民這個方向那我的感覺是這樣今天執政者要這些大法官出來去幹盡他們想要幹的壞事\n\n19\n00:06:49,497 --> 00:06:49,517\n吳宗憲\n\n20\n00:07:12,796 --> 00:07:20,720\n不得執行實行這個變成你們都要去跟著這套法官這樣走嘛你們也沒有其他的辦法對不對然後我在沒關係部長\n\n21\n00:07:26,633 --> 00:07:50,534\n而且這次大法官的憲判制他對於修復式的正義隻字未提他只在幫死刑犯逃脫死刑但是對於被害人我們這麼多年司法署上面一直講求的修復式正義大法官卻隻字未提他從來沒有去管過這一塊所以我真的不懂這大法官他到底心裡想的是什麼是為這些王八蛋政客在服務嗎部長我上次問過你\n\n22\n00:07:55,319 --> 00:08:18,369\n非常上述成功之後回到普通法院審理回到普通法院審理之後就有無罪推定所以我們就把它當作這一群人都是無罪的人去做無罪推定那我也再三的跟你說除非除非有法官敢違法的下羈押的裁定不然這些人就要放出去欸你101條跟101條刑訴101條跟101條之一哪一些東西可以羈押清清楚楚\n\n23\n00:08:24,352 --> 00:08:48,746\n所以法官要怎麼樣做違法的裁定呢?譬如說林玉如好了,智商57他出去要怎麼篡政?智商57有篡政的能力嗎?有逃亡的能力嗎?所以到底要怎麼樣認定一個智商57的人他出去有篡政逃亡之餘那請問一下法官要如何能夠違法的裁定機啊?那法官只要不裁定機啊,這37個人就有可能會出去啊\n\n24\n00:08:49,346 --> 00:09:16,765\n甚至我們上次有講到了羈押3個月延押12個月延押12個月期滿了只有15個月根本就來不及審判完畢嘛那如果你還要再送精神鑑定或這些廢死團體幫他申請一次兩次的精神鑑定那就超過15個月啦那這些人是不是要放出來所以我在這邊要跟所有的人講這些人就是有可能其中一部分會被放出來會回歸到社會那部裡面有什麼做法\n\n25\n00:09:19,521 --> 00:09:48,667\n這個宪判第8號的判決一直有提醒有提醒這個撤銷的這個最高法院會撤銷判決他那個要做注意羈押的問題重新的計算這個羈押的期間部長不要講這些廢話這個委員關心的是不是會放的問題我想這個個案我對案情是不是有沒有101條或101條之一的情形這個我沒辦法去做一個判斷但是我們檢查該做的我們會要求我們就會促請法官去\n\n26\n00:09:49,307 --> 00:09:51,510\n法官有他的智慧會去審酌這個被告應該羈押的理由\n\n27\n00:10:05,989 --> 00:10:29,108\n因為部長不要繞圈子我們都很內行刑訴訟法這些人就可能不被押或超過羈押的期限而被放出來回歸到社會只要有一個人回歸到社會部長這個對目前的執政黨已經對您都是重大的傷害我在這邊只能這樣子跟你說反正你跟我繞圈子我也聽不到我問了兩個禮拜我還是聽不到我要的答案那就算了\n\n28\n00:10:29,969 --> 00:10:52,630\n然後我再來跟你們報告一件事情從鐵路殺警案一審無罪二審有罪整個精神鑑定是天翻地覆看起來就是精神鑑定跟DNA的鑑定不一樣DNA鑑定準確率非常高但精神鑑定常常翻來覆去那會不會變成是很多團體把你精神鑑定到反正有一天要出到他的答案就可以\n\n29\n00:10:53,882 --> 00:10:54,162\n好最後齁\n\n30\n00:11:16,401 --> 00:11:36,149\n我認為因為我們對於羈押的要件我們都很清楚所以這37個死刑犯最後回到普通法院無罪推定之後確實很有可能法官根本無法羈押因為與法不合那與法不合的情況下這37個很快就放出來或是超過羈押的期間就放出來\n\n31\n00:11:36,809 --> 00:11:46,203\n所以一定要詳實的告訴這個社會部長你上一次在巡打的時候謝謝你很有勇氣的告訴我們說確實沒有把握他們能夠繼續壓著\n\n32\n00:11:48,870 --> 00:12:16,638\n謝謝你至少你上次是有勇氣啦因為這個時機啊這是屬於法對這個是事實而不是上次吳思堯那樣子胡說八道那邊政客亂帶風向我想我們檢察會盡量做我們檢察官職責的權利去做我們職責的事情謝謝謝謝部長我想說委員你也是當過檢察我們能夠做我們會全力說我想窮竭一列力量不讓這些人走路市長為什麼我對這次那麼生氣是因為我真的很重視社會治安因為我覺得這是所有人都希望的我們都不希望有一個殺人犯\n\n33\n00:12:17,659 --> 00:12:43,248\n回到社會然後如果你住同一個社區你坐電梯會跟他一起做你心裡會不會害怕我今天在想的只是這個東西所以我是跟部長報告一件事情在我心中齁我覺得政客齁為的是下一次選舉政治家為的是下一代的幸福然後我很謝謝部長上次有勇氣把話說出來這些人確實有可能將來會回歸到社會\n\n34\n00:12:44,943 --> 00:13:05,920\n我是希望說我覺得所有的官員們跟大法官都不要都不要像這些法盲的政客一樣在那邊在那邊裝傻在那邊講出與法不合的事實這是我的期待所以我上次也說在場其實有非常多法官假官的學長們我如果今天我在法律的部分我有講錯都歡迎來批評我\n\n35\n00:13:07,501 --> 00:13:07,521\n吳宗憲議員\n\n36\n00:13:27,619 --> 00:13:28,320\n法官絕對依法下裁定但是101條跟101條之一\n\n37\n00:13:43,203 --> 00:13:53,727\n他對於羈押的要件這些人不符合啊所以當我們對法官有信心他依法下裁定就是不能押嘛那你也只能這樣講嘛我沒有懲辦這個個案所以我不能講\n\n38\n00:14:05,973 --> 00:14:29,095\n那我想檢察會能夠全力用我們的職檔去防治這個被告走入社區對部長你講的沒錯就是你能做的以及現在檢察官能做所以這個問題的話你講的都沒錯部長你講的完全正確確實你可以請檢察官積極的請法官裁定羈押但我這邊要告訴部長的是法官依法如果真的依法處理的話\n\n39\n00:14:29,776 --> 00:14:30,096\n吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲\n\n40\n00:14:46,247 --> 00:15:01,565\n他就是可能不押否則你跟我講他們符合什麼逃亡之餘符合什麼篡政之餘如果這個都沒有那也沒有那個關了20幾年也沒有反復實施之餘請問一下你可以創設新的法律來叫法官裁定羈押嗎\n\n41\n00:15:02,566 --> 00:15:05,049\n這不是智慧的問題這是法律的問題我國是法治國家部長檢察官們是聰明人我是笨蛋嗎我沒有辦法看懂法律嗎你今天講了什麼話\n\n42\n00:15:23,479 --> 00:15:44,395\n我不懂你這什麼意思嘛我剛已經說了你講的話我能夠認同就是你可以請檢察官積極的去向法官審理羈押但是我在這裡也告訴你依據我國現行刑事訴訟法的規定法官要押的理由在哪裡我真的還是想不到我問了超過20個我的同學的法官他們也說依照現行法就是沒有辦法押\n\n43\n00:15:46,288 --> 00:15:46,748\n我可以接受你這句話\n\n44\n00:16:06,772 --> 00:16:06,832\n謝謝吳宗偉謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n743\t15174\t有請我們麻煩部長有請鄭部長委員好部長早\n26816\t49054\t部長我今天主要還是就你們這次業務報告的有關憲法法庭死刑判決的核心解釋這部分去討論那我想說我們今天就不要聚焦在很混亂的地方而聚焦在精神心智缺陷或是精神障礙不得判處死刑就我們都很清楚這一次大法官其實\n50573\t74763\t這次大法官他的判決其實我個人認為這是一個完全宿愛裁判的一個憲判那他對於這個精神障礙的部分他從行為時、審判時跟執行時他設了三個關卡那這個都是以前沒有的概念那因為以前我們只知道刑法19條是以行為時為判斷基礎那這次大法官他直接又下了一大堆\n76483\t101912\t根本我覺得以前就從來沒想過的東西在裡面那這個處處其實很簡單嘛這就是實質廢死啦這就實質廢死這不用在那邊跟我們在那邊玩文字遊戲說這不叫實質廢死然後講了一大堆五四三的那個都在騙國人那部長你知不知道這次大法官有點名三個死刑犯就他們審理的時候有無金帳有無自我辯護的能力不得判死這個部長知道吧\n103201\t106182\t現行法律有規定審判不得判死嗎?\n124241\t149235\t現在目前是沒有現行就是19條以行為死為主這個我們大家都很清楚那依據你們的報告你們會依據大法官的指示就是修法前不能執行死刑修法後要幫他們非常上訴對不對這你應該知道這你們自己寫的東西嘛好那我再來提到一個當初殺了他的媽媽婆婆先生的這個林于如\n157310\t170523\t大法官認為他審判的時候有精神障礙導致自我辨識能力不足不能判死刑而且兩年內要修法那這個東西他的律師說智能不足這個部長你知道怎麼回事嗎\n173047\t181984\t這個是一個個案的話我不清楚他這個這個個案的智能不足的好那我跟你講齁這個他所謂個案的智能不足就是他在某一次\n183726\t206062\t審理的時候法官給他做智力測驗,測定他只有57那這個理由來當作不能判死刑的理由我這覺得是蠻離譜的啦因為你要知道一個智商110的人他要演成自己是57很容易那你57要演成110是很難那如果這樣子的話這種智能鑑定就可以當作是一個理由\n207023\t207043\t吳宗憲\n215680\t242543\t大法官他的這些想法我也只能說看為觀止大法官其實就是為這37個死刑犯在那邊秀喵喵要盡量的保護他們那像李玉如這個案子他在三省也有做延遲辯論所以他的程序完備那程序完備的時候大法官就幫他找一個理由說他曾經有救省能力有問題智力只有57然後這樣子來去做這樣子的對法務部的要求\n244664\t263254\t我個人完全不認同,我也希望說部長能夠稍微了解一下這個案子因為你們自己業務報告這個案件現在這個死刑犯的這些,確定死刑犯的這些現在是一憲判一職,現在就是要由總長來審核\n266327\t267968\t一個人在行為時懂得用藥處理自己的先生\n283036\t305475\t那那個藥是什麼藥要去哪裡買我都不知道了結果他竟然知道他也知道要還賭債知道要詐領保險金知道要預謀殺人知道希望檢察官趕快給他的手上證明書這些他都清清楚楚他甚至比很多代書都還要厲害了比很多律師都還要懂了結果大家認為說他就審能力有問題這個就是我要點出來現在實務上面\n307356\t336251\t會遇到的一個問題就是當事人只要在庭上裝瘋賣傻在那邊填寫錯誤的智力測驗的答案那今天他就可以逃過死刑那這是我對於現在大法官的認定出來我的見解啦那當然我也是看看總長以後會怎麼做決策我會去等著看嘛就大家來看看總長會怎麼做決定啦所以只以智力測驗就可以認定有無精神障礙心智缺陷我真的是完全的不認同\n337898\t367097\t那這個根本就是加上了以前法律19條以外根本就沒有這樣的規範嘛那加這個規範的目的是什麼我也不懂啦所以大法官現在變成是繼承法官的太上皇像林玉如的案子總共有19位法官審過結果就幾個大法官他最後做出來的先判決推翻了他們以前的死刑確定判決這我看到的整個程序走到今天就是這個樣子所以呢是不是大法官自己在違憲\n368378\t368398\t吳宗憲\n388852\t408232\t我後來發現很多民眾把大法官跟法官混在一起了其實法官是法官大法官是大法官大法官是執政者認命的根本跟一般普通法院的法官不一樣很多人民搞錯了很多政治人物就故意在誤導人民這個方向那我的感覺是這樣今天執政者要這些大法官出來去幹盡他們想要幹的壞事\n409497\t409517\t吳宗憲\n432796\t440720\t不得執行實行這個變成你們都要去跟著這套法官這樣走嘛你們也沒有其他的辦法對不對然後我在 沒關係部長\n446633\t470534\t而且這次大法官的憲判制他對於修復式的正義 隻字未提他只在幫死刑犯逃脫死刑但是對於被害人我們這麼多年司法署上面一直講求的修復式正義大法官卻隻字未提他從來沒有去管過這一塊所以我真的不懂這大法官他到底心裡想的是什麼是為這些王八蛋政客在服務嗎部長我上次問過你\n475319\t498369\t非常上述成功之後回到普通法院審理回到普通法院審理之後就有無罪推定所以我們就把它當作這一群人都是無罪的人去做無罪推定那我也再三的跟你說除非除非有法官敢違法的下羈押的裁定不然這些人就要放出去欸你101條跟101條刑訴101條跟101條之一哪一些東西可以羈押清清楚楚\n504352\t528746\t所以法官要怎麼樣做違法的裁定呢?譬如說林玉如好了,智商57他出去要怎麼篡政?智商57有篡政的能力嗎?有逃亡的能力嗎?所以到底要怎麼樣認定一個智商57的人他出去有篡政逃亡之餘那請問一下法官要如何能夠違法的裁定機啊?那法官只要不裁定機啊,這37個人就有可能會出去啊\n529346\t556765\t甚至我們上次有講到了 羈押3個月 延押12個月延押12個月期滿了只有15個月根本就來不及審判完畢嘛那如果你還要再送精神鑑定或這些廢死團體幫他申請一次兩次的精神鑑定那就超過15個月啦那這些人是不是要放出來所以我在這邊要跟所有的人講這些人就是有可能其中一部分會被放出來會回歸到社會那部裡面有什麼做法\n559521\t588667\t這個宪判第8號的判決一直有提醒有提醒這個撤銷的這個最高法院會撤銷判決他那個要做注意羈押的問題重新的計算這個羈押的期間部長不要講這些廢話這個委員關心的是不是會放的問題我想這個個案我對案情是不是有沒有101條或101條之一的情形這個我沒辦法去做一個判斷但是我們檢查該做的我們會要求我們就會促請法官去\n589307\t591510\t法官有他的智慧會去審酌這個被告應該羈押的理由\n605989\t629108\t因為部長不要繞圈子我們都很內行刑訴訟法這些人就可能不被押或超過羈押的期限而被放出來回歸到社會只要有一個人回歸到社會部長這個對目前的執政黨已經對您都是重大的傷害我在這邊只能這樣子跟你說反正你跟我繞圈子我也聽不到我問了兩個禮拜我還是聽不到我要的答案那就算了\n629969\t652630\t然後我再來跟你們報告一件事情從鐵路殺警案一審無罪二審有罪整個精神鑑定是天翻地覆看起來就是精神鑑定跟DNA的鑑定不一樣DNA鑑定準確率非常高但精神鑑定常常翻來覆去那會不會變成是很多團體把你精神鑑定到反正有一天要出到他的答案就可以\n653882\t654162\t好 最後齁\n676401\t696149\t我認為因為我們對於羈押的要件我們都很清楚所以這37個死刑犯最後回到普通法院無罪推定之後確實很有可能法官根本無法羈押因為與法不合那與法不合的情況下這37個很快就放出來或是超過羈押的期間就放出來\n696809\t706203\t所以一定要詳實的告訴這個社會部長你上一次在巡打的時候謝謝你很有勇氣的告訴我們說確實沒有把握他們能夠繼續壓著\n708870\t736638\t謝謝你至少你上次是有勇氣啦因為這個時機啊這是屬於法對這個是事實而不是上次吳思堯那樣子胡說八道那邊政客亂帶風向我想我們檢察會盡量做我們檢察官職責的權利去做我們職責的事情謝謝謝謝部長我想說委員你也是當過檢察我們能夠做我們會全力說我想窮竭一列力量不讓這些人走路市長為什麼我對這次那麼生氣是因為我真的很重視社會治安因為我覺得這是所有人都希望的我們都不希望有一個殺人犯\n737659\t763248\t回到社會然後如果你住同一個社區你坐電梯會跟他一起做你心裡會不會害怕我今天在想的只是這個東西所以我是跟部長報告一件事情在我心中齁我覺得政客齁為的是下一次選舉政治家為的是下一代的幸福然後我很謝謝部長上次有勇氣把話說出來這些人確實有可能將來會回歸到社會\n764943\t785920\t我是希望說我覺得所有的官員們跟大法官都不要都不要像這些法盲的政客一樣在那邊在那邊裝傻在那邊講出與法不合的事實這是我的期待所以我上次也說在場其實有非常多法官假官的學長們我如果今天我在法律的部分我有講錯都歡迎來批評我\n787501\t787521\t吳宗憲議員\n807619\t808320\t法官絕對依法下裁定但是101條跟101條之一\n823203\t833727\t他對於羈押的要件這些人不符合啊所以當我們對法官有信心他依法下裁定就是不能押嘛那你也只能這樣講嘛我沒有懲辦這個個案所以我不能講\n845973\t869095\t那我想檢察會能夠全力用我們的職檔去防治這個被告走入社區對部長你講的沒錯就是你能做的以及現在檢察官能做所以這個問題的話你講的都沒錯部長你講的完全正確確實你可以請檢察官積極的請法官裁定羈押但我這邊要告訴部長的是法官依法如果真的依法處理的話\n869776\t870096\t吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲\n886247\t901565\t他就是可能不押否則你跟我講他們符合什麼逃亡之餘符合什麼篡政之餘如果這個都沒有那也沒有那個關了20幾年也沒有反復實施之餘請問一下你可以創設新的法律來叫法官裁定羈押嗎\n902566\t905049\t這不是智慧的問題這是法律的問題我國是法治國家部長檢察官們是聰明人我是笨蛋嗎我沒有辦法看懂法律嗎你今天講了什麼話\n923479\t944395\t我不懂你這什麼意思嘛我剛已經說了你講的話我能夠認同就是你可以請檢察官積極的去向法官審理羈押但是我在這裡也告訴你依據我國現行刑事訴訟法的規定法官要押的理由在哪裡我真的還是想不到我問了超過20個我的同學的法官他們也說依照現行法就是沒有辦法押\n946288\t946748\t我可以接受你這句話\n966772\t966832\t謝謝吳宗偉 謝謝部長\n","txt":"有請我們麻煩部長有請鄭部長委員好部長早\n部長我今天主要還是就你們這次業務報告的有關憲法法庭死刑判決的核心解釋這部分去討論那我想說我們今天就不要聚焦在很混亂的地方而聚焦在精神心智缺陷或是精神障礙不得判處死刑就我們都很清楚這一次大法官其實\n這次大法官他的判決其實我個人認為這是一個完全宿愛裁判的一個憲判那他對於這個精神障礙的部分他從行為時、審判時跟執行時他設了三個關卡那這個都是以前沒有的概念那因為以前我們只知道刑法19條是以行為時為判斷基礎那這次大法官他直接又下了一大堆\n根本我覺得以前就從來沒想過的東西在裡面那這個處處其實很簡單嘛這就是實質廢死啦這就實質廢死這不用在那邊跟我們在那邊玩文字遊戲說這不叫實質廢死然後講了一大堆五四三的那個都在騙國人那部長你知不知道這次大法官有點名三個死刑犯就他們審理的時候有無金帳有無自我辯護的能力不得判死這個部長知道吧\n現行法律有規定審判不得判死嗎?\n現在目前是沒有現行就是19條以行為死為主這個我們大家都很清楚那依據你們的報告你們會依據大法官的指示就是修法前不能執行死刑修法後要幫他們非常上訴對不對這你應該知道這你們自己寫的東西嘛好那我再來提到一個當初殺了他的媽媽婆婆先生的這個林于如\n大法官認為他審判的時候有精神障礙導致自我辨識能力不足不能判死刑而且兩年內要修法那這個東西他的律師說智能不足這個部長你知道怎麼回事嗎\n這個是一個個案的話我不清楚他這個這個個案的智能不足的好那我跟你講齁這個他所謂個案的智能不足就是他在某一次\n審理的時候法官給他做智力測驗,測定他只有57那這個理由來當作不能判死刑的理由我這覺得是蠻離譜的啦因為你要知道一個智商110的人他要演成自己是57很容易那你57要演成110是很難那如果這樣子的話這種智能鑑定就可以當作是一個理由\n吳宗憲\n大法官他的這些想法我也只能說看為觀止大法官其實就是為這37個死刑犯在那邊秀喵喵要盡量的保護他們那像李玉如這個案子他在三省也有做延遲辯論所以他的程序完備那程序完備的時候大法官就幫他找一個理由說他曾經有救省能力有問題智力只有57然後這樣子來去做這樣子的對法務部的要求\n我個人完全不認同,我也希望說部長能夠稍微了解一下這個案子因為你們自己業務報告這個案件現在這個死刑犯的這些,確定死刑犯的這些現在是一憲判一職,現在就是要由總長來審核\n一個人在行為時懂得用藥處理自己的先生\n那那個藥是什麼藥要去哪裡買我都不知道了結果他竟然知道他也知道要還賭債知道要詐領保險金知道要預謀殺人知道希望檢察官趕快給他的手上證明書這些他都清清楚楚他甚至比很多代書都還要厲害了比很多律師都還要懂了結果大家認為說他就審能力有問題這個就是我要點出來現在實務上面\n會遇到的一個問題就是當事人只要在庭上裝瘋賣傻在那邊填寫錯誤的智力測驗的答案那今天他就可以逃過死刑那這是我對於現在大法官的認定出來我的見解啦那當然我也是看看總長以後會怎麼做決策我會去等著看嘛就大家來看看總長會怎麼做決定啦所以只以智力測驗就可以認定有無精神障礙心智缺陷我真的是完全的不認同\n那這個根本就是加上了以前法律19條以外根本就沒有這樣的規範嘛那加這個規範的目的是什麼我也不懂啦所以大法官現在變成是繼承法官的太上皇像林玉如的案子總共有19位法官審過結果就幾個大法官他最後做出來的先判決推翻了他們以前的死刑確定判決這我看到的整個程序走到今天就是這個樣子所以呢是不是大法官自己在違憲\n吳宗憲\n我後來發現很多民眾把大法官跟法官混在一起了其實法官是法官大法官是大法官大法官是執政者認命的根本跟一般普通法院的法官不一樣很多人民搞錯了很多政治人物就故意在誤導人民這個方向那我的感覺是這樣今天執政者要這些大法官出來去幹盡他們想要幹的壞事\n吳宗憲\n不得執行實行這個變成你們都要去跟著這套法官這樣走嘛你們也沒有其他的辦法對不對然後我在 沒關係部長\n而且這次大法官的憲判制他對於修復式的正義 隻字未提他只在幫死刑犯逃脫死刑但是對於被害人我們這麼多年司法署上面一直講求的修復式正義大法官卻隻字未提他從來沒有去管過這一塊所以我真的不懂這大法官他到底心裡想的是什麼是為這些王八蛋政客在服務嗎部長我上次問過你\n非常上述成功之後回到普通法院審理回到普通法院審理之後就有無罪推定所以我們就把它當作這一群人都是無罪的人去做無罪推定那我也再三的跟你說除非除非有法官敢違法的下羈押的裁定不然這些人就要放出去欸你101條跟101條刑訴101條跟101條之一哪一些東西可以羈押清清楚楚\n所以法官要怎麼樣做違法的裁定呢?譬如說林玉如好了,智商57他出去要怎麼篡政?智商57有篡政的能力嗎?有逃亡的能力嗎?所以到底要怎麼樣認定一個智商57的人他出去有篡政逃亡之餘那請問一下法官要如何能夠違法的裁定機啊?那法官只要不裁定機啊,這37個人就有可能會出去啊\n甚至我們上次有講到了 羈押3個月 延押12個月延押12個月期滿了只有15個月根本就來不及審判完畢嘛那如果你還要再送精神鑑定或這些廢死團體幫他申請一次兩次的精神鑑定那就超過15個月啦那這些人是不是要放出來所以我在這邊要跟所有的人講這些人就是有可能其中一部分會被放出來會回歸到社會那部裡面有什麼做法\n這個宪判第8號的判決一直有提醒有提醒這個撤銷的這個最高法院會撤銷判決他那個要做注意羈押的問題重新的計算這個羈押的期間部長不要講這些廢話這個委員關心的是不是會放的問題我想這個個案我對案情是不是有沒有101條或101條之一的情形這個我沒辦法去做一個判斷但是我們檢查該做的我們會要求我們就會促請法官去\n法官有他的智慧會去審酌這個被告應該羈押的理由\n因為部長不要繞圈子我們都很內行刑訴訟法這些人就可能不被押或超過羈押的期限而被放出來回歸到社會只要有一個人回歸到社會部長這個對目前的執政黨已經對您都是重大的傷害我在這邊只能這樣子跟你說反正你跟我繞圈子我也聽不到我問了兩個禮拜我還是聽不到我要的答案那就算了\n然後我再來跟你們報告一件事情從鐵路殺警案一審無罪二審有罪整個精神鑑定是天翻地覆看起來就是精神鑑定跟DNA的鑑定不一樣DNA鑑定準確率非常高但精神鑑定常常翻來覆去那會不會變成是很多團體把你精神鑑定到反正有一天要出到他的答案就可以\n好 最後齁\n我認為因為我們對於羈押的要件我們都很清楚所以這37個死刑犯最後回到普通法院無罪推定之後確實很有可能法官根本無法羈押因為與法不合那與法不合的情況下這37個很快就放出來或是超過羈押的期間就放出來\n所以一定要詳實的告訴這個社會部長你上一次在巡打的時候謝謝你很有勇氣的告訴我們說確實沒有把握他們能夠繼續壓著\n謝謝你至少你上次是有勇氣啦因為這個時機啊這是屬於法對這個是事實而不是上次吳思堯那樣子胡說八道那邊政客亂帶風向我想我們檢察會盡量做我們檢察官職責的權利去做我們職責的事情謝謝謝謝部長我想說委員你也是當過檢察我們能夠做我們會全力說我想窮竭一列力量不讓這些人走路市長為什麼我對這次那麼生氣是因為我真的很重視社會治安因為我覺得這是所有人都希望的我們都不希望有一個殺人犯\n回到社會然後如果你住同一個社區你坐電梯會跟他一起做你心裡會不會害怕我今天在想的只是這個東西所以我是跟部長報告一件事情在我心中齁我覺得政客齁為的是下一次選舉政治家為的是下一代的幸福然後我很謝謝部長上次有勇氣把話說出來這些人確實有可能將來會回歸到社會\n我是希望說我覺得所有的官員們跟大法官都不要都不要像這些法盲的政客一樣在那邊在那邊裝傻在那邊講出與法不合的事實這是我的期待所以我上次也說在場其實有非常多法官假官的學長們我如果今天我在法律的部分我有講錯都歡迎來批評我\n吳宗憲議員\n法官絕對依法下裁定但是101條跟101條之一\n他對於羈押的要件這些人不符合啊所以當我們對法官有信心他依法下裁定就是不能押嘛那你也只能這樣講嘛我沒有懲辦這個個案所以我不能講\n那我想檢察會能夠全力用我們的職檔去防治這個被告走入社區對部長你講的沒錯就是你能做的以及現在檢察官能做所以這個問題的話你講的都沒錯部長你講的完全正確確實你可以請檢察官積極的請法官裁定羈押但我這邊要告訴部長的是法官依法如果真的依法處理的話\n吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲\n他就是可能不押否則你跟我講他們符合什麼逃亡之餘符合什麼篡政之餘如果這個都沒有那也沒有那個關了20幾年也沒有反復實施之餘請問一下你可以創設新的法律來叫法官裁定羈押嗎\n這不是智慧的問題這是法律的問題我國是法治國家部長檢察官們是聰明人我是笨蛋嗎我沒有辦法看懂法律嗎你今天講了什麼話\n我不懂你這什麼意思嘛我剛已經說了你講的話我能夠認同就是你可以請檢察官積極的去向法官審理羈押但是我在這裡也告訴你依據我國現行刑事訴訟法的規定法官要押的理由在哪裡我真的還是想不到我問了超過20個我的同學的法官他們也說依照現行法就是沒有辦法押\n我可以接受你這句話\n謝謝吳宗偉 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.743 --> 00:15.174\n有請我們麻煩部長有請鄭部長委員好部長早\n\n00:26.816 --> 00:49.054\n部長我今天主要還是就你們這次業務報告的有關憲法法庭死刑判決的核心解釋這部分去討論那我想說我們今天就不要聚焦在很混亂的地方而聚焦在精神心智缺陷或是精神障礙不得判處死刑就我們都很清楚這一次大法官其實\n\n00:50.573 --> 01:14.763\n這次大法官他的判決其實我個人認為這是一個完全宿愛裁判的一個憲判那他對於這個精神障礙的部分他從行為時、審判時跟執行時他設了三個關卡那這個都是以前沒有的概念那因為以前我們只知道刑法19條是以行為時為判斷基礎那這次大法官他直接又下了一大堆\n\n01:16.483 --> 01:41.912\n根本我覺得以前就從來沒想過的東西在裡面那這個處處其實很簡單嘛這就是實質廢死啦這就實質廢死這不用在那邊跟我們在那邊玩文字遊戲說這不叫實質廢死然後講了一大堆五四三的那個都在騙國人那部長你知不知道這次大法官有點名三個死刑犯就他們審理的時候有無金帳有無自我辯護的能力不得判死這個部長知道吧\n\n01:43.201 --> 01:46.182\n現行法律有規定審判不得判死嗎?\n\n02:04.241 --> 02:29.235\n現在目前是沒有現行就是19條以行為死為主這個我們大家都很清楚那依據你們的報告你們會依據大法官的指示就是修法前不能執行死刑修法後要幫他們非常上訴對不對這你應該知道這你們自己寫的東西嘛好那我再來提到一個當初殺了他的媽媽婆婆先生的這個林于如\n\n02:37.310 --> 02:50.523\n大法官認為他審判的時候有精神障礙導致自我辨識能力不足不能判死刑而且兩年內要修法那這個東西他的律師說智能不足這個部長你知道怎麼回事嗎\n\n02:53.047 --> 03:01.984\n這個是一個個案的話我不清楚他這個這個個案的智能不足的好那我跟你講齁這個他所謂個案的智能不足就是他在某一次\n\n03:03.726 --> 03:26.062\n審理的時候法官給他做智力測驗,測定他只有57那這個理由來當作不能判死刑的理由我這覺得是蠻離譜的啦因為你要知道一個智商110的人他要演成自己是57很容易那你57要演成110是很難那如果這樣子的話這種智能鑑定就可以當作是一個理由\n\n03:27.023 --> 03:27.043\n吳宗憲\n\n03:35.680 --> 04:02.543\n大法官他的這些想法我也只能說看為觀止大法官其實就是為這37個死刑犯在那邊秀喵喵要盡量的保護他們那像李玉如這個案子他在三省也有做延遲辯論所以他的程序完備那程序完備的時候大法官就幫他找一個理由說他曾經有救省能力有問題智力只有57然後這樣子來去做這樣子的對法務部的要求\n\n04:04.664 --> 04:23.254\n我個人完全不認同,我也希望說部長能夠稍微了解一下這個案子因為你們自己業務報告這個案件現在這個死刑犯的這些,確定死刑犯的這些現在是一憲判一職,現在就是要由總長來審核\n\n04:26.327 --> 04:27.968\n一個人在行為時懂得用藥處理自己的先生\n\n04:43.036 --> 05:05.475\n那那個藥是什麼藥要去哪裡買我都不知道了結果他竟然知道他也知道要還賭債知道要詐領保險金知道要預謀殺人知道希望檢察官趕快給他的手上證明書這些他都清清楚楚他甚至比很多代書都還要厲害了比很多律師都還要懂了結果大家認為說他就審能力有問題這個就是我要點出來現在實務上面\n\n05:07.356 --> 05:36.251\n會遇到的一個問題就是當事人只要在庭上裝瘋賣傻在那邊填寫錯誤的智力測驗的答案那今天他就可以逃過死刑那這是我對於現在大法官的認定出來我的見解啦那當然我也是看看總長以後會怎麼做決策我會去等著看嘛就大家來看看總長會怎麼做決定啦所以只以智力測驗就可以認定有無精神障礙心智缺陷我真的是完全的不認同\n\n05:37.898 --> 06:07.097\n那這個根本就是加上了以前法律19條以外根本就沒有這樣的規範嘛那加這個規範的目的是什麼我也不懂啦所以大法官現在變成是繼承法官的太上皇像林玉如的案子總共有19位法官審過結果就幾個大法官他最後做出來的先判決推翻了他們以前的死刑確定判決這我看到的整個程序走到今天就是這個樣子所以呢是不是大法官自己在違憲\n\n06:08.378 --> 06:08.398\n吳宗憲\n\n06:28.852 --> 06:48.232\n我後來發現很多民眾把大法官跟法官混在一起了其實法官是法官大法官是大法官大法官是執政者認命的根本跟一般普通法院的法官不一樣很多人民搞錯了很多政治人物就故意在誤導人民這個方向那我的感覺是這樣今天執政者要這些大法官出來去幹盡他們想要幹的壞事\n\n06:49.497 --> 06:49.517\n吳宗憲\n\n07:12.796 --> 07:20.720\n不得執行實行這個變成你們都要去跟著這套法官這樣走嘛你們也沒有其他的辦法對不對然後我在沒關係部長\n\n07:26.633 --> 07:50.534\n而且這次大法官的憲判制他對於修復式的正義隻字未提他只在幫死刑犯逃脫死刑但是對於被害人我們這麼多年司法署上面一直講求的修復式正義大法官卻隻字未提他從來沒有去管過這一塊所以我真的不懂這大法官他到底心裡想的是什麼是為這些王八蛋政客在服務嗎部長我上次問過你\n\n07:55.319 --> 08:18.369\n非常上述成功之後回到普通法院審理回到普通法院審理之後就有無罪推定所以我們就把它當作這一群人都是無罪的人去做無罪推定那我也再三的跟你說除非除非有法官敢違法的下羈押的裁定不然這些人就要放出去欸你101條跟101條刑訴101條跟101條之一哪一些東西可以羈押清清楚楚\n\n08:24.352 --> 08:48.746\n所以法官要怎麼樣做違法的裁定呢?譬如說林玉如好了,智商57他出去要怎麼篡政?智商57有篡政的能力嗎?有逃亡的能力嗎?所以到底要怎麼樣認定一個智商57的人他出去有篡政逃亡之餘那請問一下法官要如何能夠違法的裁定機啊?那法官只要不裁定機啊,這37個人就有可能會出去啊\n\n08:49.346 --> 09:16.765\n甚至我們上次有講到了羈押3個月延押12個月延押12個月期滿了只有15個月根本就來不及審判完畢嘛那如果你還要再送精神鑑定或這些廢死團體幫他申請一次兩次的精神鑑定那就超過15個月啦那這些人是不是要放出來所以我在這邊要跟所有的人講這些人就是有可能其中一部分會被放出來會回歸到社會那部裡面有什麼做法\n\n09:19.521 --> 09:48.667\n這個宪判第8號的判決一直有提醒有提醒這個撤銷的這個最高法院會撤銷判決他那個要做注意羈押的問題重新的計算這個羈押的期間部長不要講這些廢話這個委員關心的是不是會放的問題我想這個個案我對案情是不是有沒有101條或101條之一的情形這個我沒辦法去做一個判斷但是我們檢查該做的我們會要求我們就會促請法官去\n\n09:49.307 --> 09:51.510\n法官有他的智慧會去審酌這個被告應該羈押的理由\n\n10:05.989 --> 10:29.108\n因為部長不要繞圈子我們都很內行刑訴訟法這些人就可能不被押或超過羈押的期限而被放出來回歸到社會只要有一個人回歸到社會部長這個對目前的執政黨已經對您都是重大的傷害我在這邊只能這樣子跟你說反正你跟我繞圈子我也聽不到我問了兩個禮拜我還是聽不到我要的答案那就算了\n\n10:29.969 --> 10:52.630\n然後我再來跟你們報告一件事情從鐵路殺警案一審無罪二審有罪整個精神鑑定是天翻地覆看起來就是精神鑑定跟DNA的鑑定不一樣DNA鑑定準確率非常高但精神鑑定常常翻來覆去那會不會變成是很多團體把你精神鑑定到反正有一天要出到他的答案就可以\n\n10:53.882 --> 10:54.162\n好最後齁\n\n11:16.401 --> 11:36.149\n我認為因為我們對於羈押的要件我們都很清楚所以這37個死刑犯最後回到普通法院無罪推定之後確實很有可能法官根本無法羈押因為與法不合那與法不合的情況下這37個很快就放出來或是超過羈押的期間就放出來\n\n11:36.809 --> 11:46.203\n所以一定要詳實的告訴這個社會部長你上一次在巡打的時候謝謝你很有勇氣的告訴我們說確實沒有把握他們能夠繼續壓著\n\n11:48.870 --> 12:16.638\n謝謝你至少你上次是有勇氣啦因為這個時機啊這是屬於法對這個是事實而不是上次吳思堯那樣子胡說八道那邊政客亂帶風向我想我們檢察會盡量做我們檢察官職責的權利去做我們職責的事情謝謝謝謝部長我想說委員你也是當過檢察我們能夠做我們會全力說我想窮竭一列力量不讓這些人走路市長為什麼我對這次那麼生氣是因為我真的很重視社會治安因為我覺得這是所有人都希望的我們都不希望有一個殺人犯\n\n12:17.659 --> 12:43.248\n回到社會然後如果你住同一個社區你坐電梯會跟他一起做你心裡會不會害怕我今天在想的只是這個東西所以我是跟部長報告一件事情在我心中齁我覺得政客齁為的是下一次選舉政治家為的是下一代的幸福然後我很謝謝部長上次有勇氣把話說出來這些人確實有可能將來會回歸到社會\n\n12:44.943 --> 13:05.920\n我是希望說我覺得所有的官員們跟大法官都不要都不要像這些法盲的政客一樣在那邊在那邊裝傻在那邊講出與法不合的事實這是我的期待所以我上次也說在場其實有非常多法官假官的學長們我如果今天我在法律的部分我有講錯都歡迎來批評我\n\n13:07.501 --> 13:07.521\n吳宗憲議員\n\n13:27.619 --> 13:28.320\n法官絕對依法下裁定但是101條跟101條之一\n\n13:43.203 --> 13:53.727\n他對於羈押的要件這些人不符合啊所以當我們對法官有信心他依法下裁定就是不能押嘛那你也只能這樣講嘛我沒有懲辦這個個案所以我不能講\n\n14:05.973 --> 14:29.095\n那我想檢察會能夠全力用我們的職檔去防治這個被告走入社區對部長你講的沒錯就是你能做的以及現在檢察官能做所以這個問題的話你講的都沒錯部長你講的完全正確確實你可以請檢察官積極的請法官裁定羈押但我這邊要告訴部長的是法官依法如果真的依法處理的話\n\n14:29.776 --> 14:30.096\n吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲\n\n14:46.247 --> 15:01.565\n他就是可能不押否則你跟我講他們符合什麼逃亡之餘符合什麼篡政之餘如果這個都沒有那也沒有那個關了20幾年也沒有反復實施之餘請問一下你可以創設新的法律來叫法官裁定羈押嗎\n\n15:02.566 --> 15:05.049\n這不是智慧的問題這是法律的問題我國是法治國家部長檢察官們是聰明人我是笨蛋嗎我沒有辦法看懂法律嗎你今天講了什麼話\n\n15:23.479 --> 15:44.395\n我不懂你這什麼意思嘛我剛已經說了你講的話我能夠認同就是你可以請檢察官積極的去向法官審理羈押但是我在這裡也告訴你依據我國現行刑事訴訟法的規定法官要押的理由在哪裡我真的還是想不到我問了超過20個我的同學的法官他們也說依照現行法就是沒有辦法押\n\n15:46.288 --> 15:46.748\n我可以接受你這句話\n\n16:06.772 --> 16:06.832\n謝謝吳宗偉謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.743,"end":15.174,"text":"有請我們麻煩部長有請鄭部長委員好部長早"},{"start":26.816,"end":49.054,"text":"部長我今天主要還是就你們這次業務報告的有關憲法法庭死刑判決的核心解釋這部分去討論那我想說我們今天就不要聚焦在很混亂的地方而聚焦在精神心智缺陷或是精神障礙不得判處死刑就我們都很清楚這一次大法官其實"},{"start":50.573,"end":74.763,"text":"這次大法官他的判決其實我個人認為這是一個完全宿愛裁判的一個憲判那他對於這個精神障礙的部分他從行為時、審判時跟執行時他設了三個關卡那這個都是以前沒有的概念那因為以前我們只知道刑法19條是以行為時為判斷基礎那這次大法官他直接又下了一大堆"},{"start":76.483,"end":101.912,"text":"根本我覺得以前就從來沒想過的東西在裡面那這個處處其實很簡單嘛這就是實質廢死啦這就實質廢死這不用在那邊跟我們在那邊玩文字遊戲說這不叫實質廢死然後講了一大堆五四三的那個都在騙國人那部長你知不知道這次大法官有點名三個死刑犯就他們審理的時候有無金帳有無自我辯護的能力不得判死這個部長知道吧"},{"start":103.201,"end":106.182,"text":"現行法律有規定審判不得判死嗎?"},{"start":124.241,"end":149.235,"text":"現在目前是沒有現行就是19條以行為死為主這個我們大家都很清楚那依據你們的報告你們會依據大法官的指示就是修法前不能執行死刑修法後要幫他們非常上訴對不對這你應該知道這你們自己寫的東西嘛好那我再來提到一個當初殺了他的媽媽婆婆先生的這個林于如"},{"start":157.31,"end":170.523,"text":"大法官認為他審判的時候有精神障礙導致自我辨識能力不足不能判死刑而且兩年內要修法那這個東西他的律師說智能不足這個部長你知道怎麼回事嗎"},{"start":173.047,"end":181.984,"text":"這個是一個個案的話我不清楚他這個這個個案的智能不足的好那我跟你講齁這個他所謂個案的智能不足就是他在某一次"},{"start":183.726,"end":206.062,"text":"審理的時候法官給他做智力測驗,測定他只有57那這個理由來當作不能判死刑的理由我這覺得是蠻離譜的啦因為你要知道一個智商110的人他要演成自己是57很容易那你57要演成110是很難那如果這樣子的話這種智能鑑定就可以當作是一個理由"},{"start":207.023,"end":207.043,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":215.68,"end":242.543,"text":"大法官他的這些想法我也只能說看為觀止大法官其實就是為這37個死刑犯在那邊秀喵喵要盡量的保護他們那像李玉如這個案子他在三省也有做延遲辯論所以他的程序完備那程序完備的時候大法官就幫他找一個理由說他曾經有救省能力有問題智力只有57然後這樣子來去做這樣子的對法務部的要求"},{"start":244.664,"end":263.254,"text":"我個人完全不認同,我也希望說部長能夠稍微了解一下這個案子因為你們自己業務報告這個案件現在這個死刑犯的這些,確定死刑犯的這些現在是一憲判一職,現在就是要由總長來審核"},{"start":266.327,"end":267.968,"text":"一個人在行為時懂得用藥處理自己的先生"},{"start":283.036,"end":305.475,"text":"那那個藥是什麼藥要去哪裡買我都不知道了結果他竟然知道他也知道要還賭債知道要詐領保險金知道要預謀殺人知道希望檢察官趕快給他的手上證明書這些他都清清楚楚他甚至比很多代書都還要厲害了比很多律師都還要懂了結果大家認為說他就審能力有問題這個就是我要點出來現在實務上面"},{"start":307.356,"end":336.251,"text":"會遇到的一個問題就是當事人只要在庭上裝瘋賣傻在那邊填寫錯誤的智力測驗的答案那今天他就可以逃過死刑那這是我對於現在大法官的認定出來我的見解啦那當然我也是看看總長以後會怎麼做決策我會去等著看嘛就大家來看看總長會怎麼做決定啦所以只以智力測驗就可以認定有無精神障礙心智缺陷我真的是完全的不認同"},{"start":337.898,"end":367.097,"text":"那這個根本就是加上了以前法律19條以外根本就沒有這樣的規範嘛那加這個規範的目的是什麼我也不懂啦所以大法官現在變成是繼承法官的太上皇像林玉如的案子總共有19位法官審過結果就幾個大法官他最後做出來的先判決推翻了他們以前的死刑確定判決這我看到的整個程序走到今天就是這個樣子所以呢是不是大法官自己在違憲"},{"start":368.378,"end":368.398,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":388.852,"end":408.232,"text":"我後來發現很多民眾把大法官跟法官混在一起了其實法官是法官大法官是大法官大法官是執政者認命的根本跟一般普通法院的法官不一樣很多人民搞錯了很多政治人物就故意在誤導人民這個方向那我的感覺是這樣今天執政者要這些大法官出來去幹盡他們想要幹的壞事"},{"start":409.497,"end":409.517,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":432.796,"end":440.72,"text":"不得執行實行這個變成你們都要去跟著這套法官這樣走嘛你們也沒有其他的辦法對不對然後我在 沒關係部長"},{"start":446.633,"end":470.534,"text":"而且這次大法官的憲判制他對於修復式的正義 隻字未提他只在幫死刑犯逃脫死刑但是對於被害人我們這麼多年司法署上面一直講求的修復式正義大法官卻隻字未提他從來沒有去管過這一塊所以我真的不懂這大法官他到底心裡想的是什麼是為這些王八蛋政客在服務嗎部長我上次問過你"},{"start":475.319,"end":498.369,"text":"非常上述成功之後回到普通法院審理回到普通法院審理之後就有無罪推定所以我們就把它當作這一群人都是無罪的人去做無罪推定那我也再三的跟你說除非除非有法官敢違法的下羈押的裁定不然這些人就要放出去欸你101條跟101條刑訴101條跟101條之一哪一些東西可以羈押清清楚楚"},{"start":504.352,"end":528.746,"text":"所以法官要怎麼樣做違法的裁定呢?譬如說林玉如好了,智商57他出去要怎麼篡政?智商57有篡政的能力嗎?有逃亡的能力嗎?所以到底要怎麼樣認定一個智商57的人他出去有篡政逃亡之餘那請問一下法官要如何能夠違法的裁定機啊?那法官只要不裁定機啊,這37個人就有可能會出去啊"},{"start":529.346,"end":556.765,"text":"甚至我們上次有講到了 羈押3個月 延押12個月延押12個月期滿了只有15個月根本就來不及審判完畢嘛那如果你還要再送精神鑑定或這些廢死團體幫他申請一次兩次的精神鑑定那就超過15個月啦那這些人是不是要放出來所以我在這邊要跟所有的人講這些人就是有可能其中一部分會被放出來會回歸到社會那部裡面有什麼做法"},{"start":559.521,"end":588.667,"text":"這個宪判第8號的判決一直有提醒有提醒這個撤銷的這個最高法院會撤銷判決他那個要做注意羈押的問題重新的計算這個羈押的期間部長不要講這些廢話這個委員關心的是不是會放的問題我想這個個案我對案情是不是有沒有101條或101條之一的情形這個我沒辦法去做一個判斷但是我們檢查該做的我們會要求我們就會促請法官去"},{"start":589.307,"end":591.51,"text":"法官有他的智慧會去審酌這個被告應該羈押的理由"},{"start":605.989,"end":629.108,"text":"因為部長不要繞圈子我們都很內行刑訴訟法這些人就可能不被押或超過羈押的期限而被放出來回歸到社會只要有一個人回歸到社會部長這個對目前的執政黨已經對您都是重大的傷害我在這邊只能這樣子跟你說反正你跟我繞圈子我也聽不到我問了兩個禮拜我還是聽不到我要的答案那就算了"},{"start":629.969,"end":652.63,"text":"然後我再來跟你們報告一件事情從鐵路殺警案一審無罪二審有罪整個精神鑑定是天翻地覆看起來就是精神鑑定跟DNA的鑑定不一樣DNA鑑定準確率非常高但精神鑑定常常翻來覆去那會不會變成是很多團體把你精神鑑定到反正有一天要出到他的答案就可以"},{"start":653.882,"end":654.162,"text":"好 最後齁"},{"start":676.401,"end":696.149,"text":"我認為因為我們對於羈押的要件我們都很清楚所以這37個死刑犯最後回到普通法院無罪推定之後確實很有可能法官根本無法羈押因為與法不合那與法不合的情況下這37個很快就放出來或是超過羈押的期間就放出來"},{"start":696.809,"end":706.203,"text":"所以一定要詳實的告訴這個社會部長你上一次在巡打的時候謝謝你很有勇氣的告訴我們說確實沒有把握他們能夠繼續壓著"},{"start":708.87,"end":736.638,"text":"謝謝你至少你上次是有勇氣啦因為這個時機啊這是屬於法對這個是事實而不是上次吳思堯那樣子胡說八道那邊政客亂帶風向我想我們檢察會盡量做我們檢察官職責的權利去做我們職責的事情謝謝謝謝部長我想說委員你也是當過檢察我們能夠做我們會全力說我想窮竭一列力量不讓這些人走路市長為什麼我對這次那麼生氣是因為我真的很重視社會治安因為我覺得這是所有人都希望的我們都不希望有一個殺人犯"},{"start":737.659,"end":763.248,"text":"回到社會然後如果你住同一個社區你坐電梯會跟他一起做你心裡會不會害怕我今天在想的只是這個東西所以我是跟部長報告一件事情在我心中齁我覺得政客齁為的是下一次選舉政治家為的是下一代的幸福然後我很謝謝部長上次有勇氣把話說出來這些人確實有可能將來會回歸到社會"},{"start":764.943,"end":785.92,"text":"我是希望說我覺得所有的官員們跟大法官都不要都不要像這些法盲的政客一樣在那邊在那邊裝傻在那邊講出與法不合的事實這是我的期待所以我上次也說在場其實有非常多法官假官的學長們我如果今天我在法律的部分我有講錯都歡迎來批評我"},{"start":787.501,"end":787.521,"text":"吳宗憲議員"},{"start":807.619,"end":808.32,"text":"法官絕對依法下裁定但是101條跟101條之一"},{"start":823.203,"end":833.727,"text":"他對於羈押的要件這些人不符合啊所以當我們對法官有信心他依法下裁定就是不能押嘛那你也只能這樣講嘛我沒有懲辦這個個案所以我不能講"},{"start":845.973,"end":869.095,"text":"那我想檢察會能夠全力用我們的職檔去防治這個被告走入社區對部長你講的沒錯就是你能做的以及現在檢察官能做所以這個問題的話你講的都沒錯部長你講的完全正確確實你可以請檢察官積極的請法官裁定羈押但我這邊要告訴部長的是法官依法如果真的依法處理的話"},{"start":869.776,"end":870.096,"text":"吳宗憲議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲"},{"start":886.247,"end":901.565,"text":"他就是可能不押否則你跟我講他們符合什麼逃亡之餘符合什麼篡政之餘如果這個都沒有那也沒有那個關了20幾年也沒有反復實施之餘請問一下你可以創設新的法律來叫法官裁定羈押嗎"},{"start":902.566,"end":905.049,"text":"這不是智慧的問題這是法律的問題我國是法治國家部長檢察官們是聰明人我是笨蛋嗎我沒有辦法看懂法律嗎你今天講了什麼話"},{"start":923.479,"end":944.395,"text":"我不懂你這什麼意思嘛我剛已經說了你講的話我能夠認同就是你可以請檢察官積極的去向法官審理羈押但是我在這裡也告訴你依據我國現行刑事訴訟法的規定法官要押的理由在哪裡我真的還是想不到我問了超過20個我的同學的法官他們也說依照現行法就是沒有辦法押"},{"start":946.288,"end":946.748,"text":"我可以接受你這句話"},{"start":966.772,"end":966.832,"text":"謝謝吳宗偉 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":749,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（10時26分）麻煩部長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長早。部長，我今天主要還是就你們這次業務報告中，有關憲法法庭死刑判決的合憲性解釋的部分去討論，我想我們今天就不要聚焦在很混亂的地方，而要聚焦在「精神障礙或心智缺陷者不得判處死刑」上。我們都很清楚，這一次大法官的判決，其實我個人是認為這完全是一個訴外裁判的憲判，有關精神障礙的部分，它從行為時、審判時跟執行時設了三個關卡，這個都是以前沒有的概念。因為以前我們只知道刑法第十九條是以行為時為判斷基礎，這次大法官直接下了一大堆，我以前根本就沒有想過的東西在裡面。這個出處其實很簡單，這就是實質廢死啊！就不用跟我們在那邊玩文字遊戲說，這不叫實質廢死，然後又講了一大堆五四三的，那個都在騙國人。","部長，你知不知道這次大法官有點名3個死刑犯，他們在審理的時候有無精障、有無自我辯護的能力不得判死，這個部長知道嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分憲判第8號的意旨是有就這5個人特別去做判決的……"],["吳委員宗憲：對，就是有3個案子。部長，「現行」的法律有沒有規定，審判的時候不得判死？我指的是「現行」法律喔！部長？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前是沒有。"],["吳委員宗憲：現行的就是以第十九條行為時為主，這個我們大家都很清楚。依據你們的報告，你們會依據大法官的指示，修法前不能執行死刑，修法後要幫他們非常上訴，對不對？這個你應該知道，這是你們自己寫的東西嘛！","我再來要提到一個，當初殺了媽媽、婆婆、先生的這個林于如，你現在看一下，就是現在PowerPoint上面所顯示的這個林于如，大法官認為他審判的時候有精神障礙，導致自我辨識能力不足，不能判死刑，而且兩年內要修法。對於這個東西，他的律師說智能不足的這個部長知道是怎麼回事嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是一個個案，我不清楚這個個案智能不足的情況。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，那我跟你講，所謂這個個案的智能不足就是，他在某一次審理的時候，法官給他做智力測驗，測定他只有57，用這個當作不能判死刑的理由，我真的覺得是滿離譜的啦！因為你要知道，一個智商110的人他要演成自己智商是57很容易，但57要演成110是很難，如果這種智能鑑定就可以當作是一個理由的話，我只要做智力測驗時每一題都寫錯就好啦！那麼我的智力可能只剩下30，所以大法官的這些想法，我也只能說嘆為觀止啦！大法官其實就是對這37個死刑犯十分疼惜，要儘量保護他們，像林于如這個案子，在三審時也有做言詞辯論，所以它的程序完備，當程序完備的時候，大法官就幫他找一個理由，說他就審能力有問題，智力只有57，這樣來對法務部要求，我個人完全不認同啦！我也希望部長能夠稍微了解一下這個案子，因為你們自己業務報告……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這些確定死刑的犯人，依憲判意旨現在就是要由總長來審核。"],["吳委員宗憲：對，部長，既然你們的業務報告有提到，我今天就就這個業務報告問你，當然我知道總長有他的考量，但是我現在是要跟你們講，一個人他在行為時，他懂得用藥去處理他自己的先生，那個藥是什麼藥、要去哪裡買，我都不知道了，結果他竟然知道，他也知道要還賭債、知道要詐領保險金，知道要預謀殺人、知道希望檢察官趕快給他死亡證明書，這些他都清清楚楚，他甚至比很多代書都還要厲害，比很多律師都還要懂，結果大家認為他就審能力有問題。這個就是我要點出來現在實務上面會遇到的一個問題，就是當事人只要在庭上裝瘋賣傻，在那邊填寫錯誤的智力測驗的答案，今天他就可以逃過死刑，這是對於現在大法官的認定出來後我的見解啦！當然我也是看看總長以後會怎麼做決策，我們就等著看嘛！大家來看看總長會怎麼做決定。所以只以智力測驗就可以認定有無精神障礙、心智缺陷，我真的是完全的不認同，以前除刑法第十九條以外根本就沒有這樣的規範，加這個規範的目的是什麼我也不懂，所以大法官現在變成是基層法官的太上皇，像林于如的案子總共有19位法官審過，結果幾個大法官最後做出來的憲判就推翻他們以前的死刑確定判決，我看到整個程序走到今天就是這個樣子，所以是不是大法官自己在違憲？我自己的感覺是這樣，大法官今天到底是在解釋憲法，還是專門帶頭在違反憲法？那你們就跟著他們這樣走，部長，你有什麼想法？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們是尊重憲判意旨來做後續的處理。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，我的感覺啦！我後來發現很多民眾把大法官跟法官混在一起了，其實法官是法官，大法官是大法官，大法官是執政者任命的，根本跟一般普通的法官不一樣，很多人民搞錯了，很多政治人物就故意在誤導人民這個方向，我的感覺是這樣，今天執政者要這些大法官出來去幹盡他們想要幹的壞事，去把根本就已經是廢死裡面的人挑出來當大法官，他當然會做出這樣的決定啊！就像天空要不要下雨，如果是讓賣傘的人來決定的話，這天空絕對不會有晴天，我個人看到目前憲判字對於死刑的觀念就是這樣。","現在大法官要求立法院兩年內要修法，而且修法前不得執行死刑，變成你們都要跟著大法官這樣走，你們也沒有其他的辦法，對不對？沒關係，部長。而且這次大法官的憲判字對於修復式的正義隻字未提，他只在幫死刑犯逃脫死刑，但是對於被害人，這麼多年司法實務上面一直講求的修復式正義，大法官卻隻字未提，他從來沒有去管過這一塊，所以我真的不懂這些大法官到底心裡想的是什麼，是為這些王八蛋政客在服務嗎？","部長，我上次問過你，非常上訴成功之後，回到普通法院審理，回到普通法院審理之後就有無罪推定，所以我們就要把這一群人當作都是無罪的人去做無罪推定，我也再三跟你說，除非有法官敢違法下羈押的裁定，不然這些人就要放出去耶！刑訴法第一百零一條跟第一百零一條之一對於哪一些東西可以羈押規定得清清楚楚，所以法官要怎麼樣做違法的裁定呢？譬如林于如好了，智商57，她出去要怎麼串證？智商57有串證的能力嗎？有逃亡的能力嗎？所以到底要怎麼樣認定一個智商57的人，他出去有串證逃亡之虞，那請問一下法官要如何能夠違法的裁定羈押？法官只要不裁定羈押，這37個人就有可能會出去，甚至我們上次有講到羈押3個月、延押12個月，到延押12個月期滿總共只有15個月，根本就來不及審判完畢嘛！如果你還要再送精神鑑定，或這些廢死團體幫他申請一次、兩次的精神鑑定，那就超過15個月啦！那這些人是不是要放出來？所以我在這邊要跟所有的人講，這些人中有一部分就是有可能會被放出來，會回歸到社會，那部裡面有什麼作法？"],["鄭部長銘謙：憲判字第8號的判決意旨有提醒，最高法院撤銷判決要注意羈押的問題，重新計算羈押的期間……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長不要講這些廢話……"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員關心的是不是會放出來的問題，我想這個個案對案情是不是有第一百零一條或第一百零一條之一的情形，這個我沒辦法去做一個判斷，但是我們檢察官該做的，我們會要求，我們就會促請法官去羈押……"],["吳委員宗憲：對，就是你也沒有把握法官能把這些人押起來，我剛剛也說了，第一百零一條、第一百零一條之一的羈押理由就是那幾個嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我相信法官有他的智慧會去審酌這個被告應該羈押的理由。"],["吳委員宗憲：不是，部長不要繞圈子嘛！刑事訴訟法我們都很內行，這些人就可能不被押或超過羈押的期限而被放出來回歸到社會，只要有一個人回歸到社會，部長，這個對目前的執政黨以及對您都是重大的傷害，我在這邊只能這樣子跟你說，反正你跟我繞圈子，我問了兩個禮拜還是聽不到我要的答案，那就算了。","我再跟你們報告一件事情，從鐵路殺警案，一審無罪、二審有罪，整個精神鑑定是天翻地覆，看起來就是精神鑑定跟DNA的鑑定不一樣，DNA鑑定準確率非常高，但精神鑑定常常翻來覆去，那會不會變成是很多團體就讓他一直做精神鑑定，直到有一天鑑定出他要的答案就可以？所以大法官要求以精神鑑定為依據而不能送死刑，我在這邊跟大家說，我覺得要送精神鑑定，還有要送智力測驗的是大法官，不是這些被告，所以大法官真的要送精神鑑定跟智力測驗，看看有沒有57，這真的很不應該，不能把社會治安這樣玩。","最後，因為對於羈押的要件我們都很清楚，所以這37個死刑犯最後回到普通法院無罪推定之後，確實很有可能法官根本無法羈押，因為於法不合，在於法不合的情況下，這37個可能很快就放出來，或是超過羈押的期間就放出來，所以一定要詳實的告訴社會。部長，上一次在詢答的時候謝謝你很有勇氣的告訴我們說，確實沒有把握能夠繼續押著他們，謝謝你，至少你上次是有勇氣啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為這個是羈押……"],["吳委員宗憲：對，這個是事實，而不是上次吳思瑤那樣子胡說八道，在那邊政客亂帶風向……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想我們檢察官會盡量依我們的權力去做我們職責應做的事情。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝，謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員你也當過檢察官，我們能夠做，我們會全力去做，我們會窮盡一切力量不讓這些人……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，為什麼我對這事那麼生氣，是因為我真的很重視社會治安，因為我覺得這是所有人都希望的，我們都不希望有一個殺人犯回到社會，如果跟你住同一個社區，你坐電梯會跟他一起坐，你心裡會不會害怕？我今天在想的只是這個東西。","最後我跟部長報告一件事情，在我心中，我覺得政客為的是下一次選舉，政治家為的是下一代的幸福，我很謝謝部長上次有勇氣把話說出來，這些人確實有可能將來會回歸到社會。我希望所有的官員們跟大法官都不要像這些法盲的政客一樣，在那邊裝傻，在那邊講出於法不合的事實，這是我的期待。所以我上次也說，在場其實有非常多法官、檢察官的學長們，如果今天我在法律的部分有講錯，都歡迎來批評，但是我今天就是要在這邊告訴大家，這37個死刑犯真的有部分人很快的會回歸到社會。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不贊成這種說法，對法官要有信心，我想這個是三審定讞的，憲判意旨第8號也提醒法官要注意羈押的問題，而且是重新計算喔。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長、部長……"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以這個個案的問題，我想個案問題，我不去揣測個案，因為我沒有接觸到這個卷證……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，你不認同是你的事，我也跟你一樣對法官有信心，法官絕對會依法下裁定，但是依照第一百零一條跟第一百零一條之一對於羈押的要件，這些人不符合啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有，我不敢這麼……"],["吳委員宗憲：所以當我們對法官有信心，他依法下裁定，就是不能押嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不敢馬上說跟第一百零一條跟第一百零一條之一這個不符合，因為我沒有承辦這個個案，但是法官在審判的……"],["吳委員宗憲：那你也只能這樣講嘛，「我沒有承辦這個個案，所以我不能講」。"],["鄭部長銘謙：但是我們會要求檢察官窮盡一切的力量去建議法官羈押，我想我們檢察官會全力用我們的職掌去防制這個被告走入社區。"],["吳委員宗憲：對，部長你講的沒錯，就是你能做的以及現在檢察官能做的……"],["鄭部長銘謙：但是這個問題的話……"],["吳委員宗憲：對，你講的都沒錯，部長，你講的完全正確，確實你可以請檢察官積極地請法官裁定羈押，但我這邊要告訴部長的是，法官如果真的依法處理的話，我如果是這些37個人的律師，我就跟你打，他就不符合羈押的要件嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個問題，我想由司法院承辦法官來回答這個問題，會比我還……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，部長，OK，你這樣的回答我接受，但是我就是要告訴你，他們就是可能不押，就這麼簡單，他就是可能不押，否則你跟我講，他們符合什麼逃亡之虞？符合什麼串證之虞？如果這個都沒有，關了二十幾年，也沒有反覆實施之虞，請問一下，你可以創設新的法律，叫法官裁定羈押嗎？如果沒有的話，你怎麼可以在那邊保證他們37個不會回歸社會？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想檢察官有他的智慧，可以發覺建議羈押的……"],["吳委員宗憲：這不是智慧的問題，這是法律的問題，我國是法治國家耶！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是一個專業，應該我們有這個專業可以……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，檢察官們是聰明人，我是笨蛋嗎？我沒有辦法看懂法律嗎？你今天講那什麼話！我不懂你這什麼意思嘛！我剛剛已經說了，你講的話我能夠認同，就是你可以請檢察官積極地去向法官聲請羈押，但是我在這裡也告訴你，依據我國現行刑事訴訟法的規定，法官要押的理由在哪裡，我真的還是想不到……"],["鄭部長銘謙：在第一百零一條跟第一百零一條之一。"],["吳委員宗憲：我問了超過20個當法官的同學，他們也說依照現行法，就是沒有辦法押。部長跟我講那些，我覺得沒有意思，你要幫政客去開脫，那就這樣啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：很抱歉，我沒有在幫政客開脫，我們就是就法論法，我們把我們的職掌在整個……以後如果我們在力挺、我們在……我們盡我們檢察官的職掌，去落實我們的職掌。"],["吳委員宗憲：我可以接受你這句話，就檢方盡檢方的責任去做所有能做的事，但是會面對到了將來的社會事實就是會面對到。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員的問題我都答復過了，盡我們所能，至於法官那部分，我想法官有他的智慧。"],["吳委員宗憲：我知道，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝吳召委，謝謝部長。"],["主席（吳委員宗憲代）：下一位請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-5","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","陳俊宇","吳思瑤","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","吳宗憲","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","謝龍介","林思銘","陳冠廷"],"page_start":193,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138501_00003"}}}