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{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 108.542, \"end\": 108.562, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}]}, {\"start\": 110.244, \"end\": 116.701, \"text\": \"其實我們有相當成就發現他那個直播很多是預錄的畫面並不是真的直播\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 110.244, \"end\": 110.545, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 110.545, \"end\": 111.046, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 111.046, \"end\": 112.009, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 112.009, \"end\": 112.51, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 112.51, \"end\": 113.051, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 113.051, \"end\": 113.192, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 113.192, \"end\": 113.332, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 113.332, \"end\": 113.613, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 113.613, \"end\": 113.793, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"播\", 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\"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 617.239, \"end\": 617.319, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 617.319, \"end\": 617.339, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 634.813, \"end\": 634.954, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 634.954, \"end\": 634.974, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"茵\", \"start\": 634.974, \"end\": 634.994, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,129 --> 00:00:15,469\n主席有請顧立雄部長部長請等一下詢答當中如果有相關業務的將官或是官員就請你們自行上台配通部長去詢答林委好部長好我剛剛特別認真看了我們的業務報告其中第6頁跟第7頁\n\n2\n00:00:16,830 --> 00:00:35,289\n特別點到就是面對中共的認知作戰所以國防部持續有包括防制假訊息啊反制中共軍事威脅提升媒體識讀能力那多元反制那麼第7頁也寫到說本部跟國防院學術界有合制所謂的這個媒體識讀的教學影片\n\n3\n00:00:35,929 --> 00:01:03,571\n那麼我們現在是不是就直接來實測一下就是面對中共的這個認知作戰或是這些訊息的提供我們在這個反制上面或者是軍事威脅上面媒體識讀的能力到底我們能夠讀出什麼來這個是昨天其實我在我們同樣委員會當中我有詢問過這個就是蔡明彥蔡局長這個是中國的軍演他們首度在YT上面直播\n\n4\n00:01:04,412 --> 00:01:23,762\n那麼我們都知道這個YouTube上面中國人是看不到的啦他們除非要翻牆啦那麼也就是說其實只有我們在這個自由民主的台灣或是其他全球可以看得到那麼我就想要就教部長或者是我們現在陪同的將官們這樣的一個直播影片\n\n5\n00:01:24,942 --> 00:01:48,562\n當中國其實是看不到的時候他所要傳遞的訊息是什麼尤其是他是從中午12點13分開始然後到19點19分可是如果根據我們的了解現在他們所宣布的時間期程是大概6點左右就結束了那麼面對這種直播他透露了什麼樣的訊息呢部長\n\n6\n00:01:50,244 --> 00:01:56,701\n其實我們有相當成就發現他那個直播很多是預錄的畫面並不是真的直播\n\n7\n00:01:59,645 --> 00:02:28,006\n委員好我是情報司司長是當天的這個直播如同剛剛部長所說的這個絕大部分它都是預製好而且有很多其實還有左右兩邊的畫面喔在我們的鏡頭所以看得到的右手邊它其實就是有一個量是網路宣傳影片啊講這個共軍軍力有多麼英雄威武然後聯合利劍但它其實這個就是拍攝好的你是指這個部分嗎是好\n\n8\n00:02:31,127 --> 00:02:56,039\n直播的部分也有部分是預錄的直播的部分應該就我們去觀察他那個跟現場這個演習的這個部分狀況是不一樣看得出來而且有影片發現是跟過去某一些影片其實是完全是一樣的所以看得出來是有很大部分是預錄的一個不是真正的直播的\n\n9\n00:02:56,613 --> 00:03:16,854\n好那麼類似這樣的訊息當然國防部不見得會把這樣的訊息公開給民眾知道但是有沒有把你們的研判做一個包括在這一次之後做一個必要的讓我們知道軍中袍則能夠知道因為這個是有助於其實\n\n10\n00:03:17,975 --> 00:03:45,005\n在化解認知作戰當中一個非常重要的就像我們看到右手邊我們都知道這一定是預錄的畫面可是我們不知道的是在左手邊是預錄的畫面但是在右手邊的時候這個所謂直播網當中他所拍攝的到底是廈門是不是真的是廈門然後廈門的對岸所看出來的到底是哪裡是金門嗎還是其他的地方那像這樣的時候比如說這是預錄的畫面你就會覺得說這是造假\n\n11\n00:03:47,586 --> 00:04:02,524\n那這樣的訊息有沒有直接的在部隊當中在軍隊當中讓我們國軍弟兄知道那麼他有傳達是什麼樣的資訊到底是我們面對這樣的畫面該恐懼焦慮或者是其實他就是一個紙老虎\n\n12\n00:04:03,004 --> 00:04:03,164\n﹚林楚茵\n\n13\n00:04:20,725 --> 00:04:22,747\n報委員很簡單跟委員報告這個其實就是一個複合式的灰色地帶很明顯的太陽舉兩個簡單的例子\n\n14\n00:04:46,434 --> 00:04:54,581\n他所要傳遞出來的訊息裡面所講的重點不外乎就是要告訴我們所收看的這個民眾\n\n15\n00:04:56,479 --> 00:05:17,219\n因果關係因為他認為我們做了什麼或他就還會採取對應式的一個果那回過頭來其實不管我們做什麼他早就已經想好他要做這件事情所以這因果關係在我們灰色地帶洗腦的這個類型裡面我們把它歸納這個就是欺騙因為他用這樣子的手段來去讓\n\n16\n00:05:18,493 --> 00:05:18,813\n主席\n\n17\n00:05:47,805 --> 00:05:54,019\n好不好意思主席我的這個幕不見了被認知被滲透了嘛\n\n18\n00:06:03,783 --> 00:06:18,128\n剛委員指教我們應該要反制這樣子的一個假訊息的一個作為我會建議就是說把它也放進你們的教材當中\n\n19\n00:06:19,787 --> 00:06:19,947\n李卓人議員\n\n20\n00:06:40,460 --> 00:07:06,201\n交通部內政部經濟部農業部其實他為了當然所謂現在的政府資訊公開那麼他會有很多其實他當然原本的設立的意義跟目的並不是為了這個去洩露軍機或是軍事要塞但是在政府資訊公開的情況底下那麼我們發現9月5號有一個農業部底下所屬的農水署水利署的這個鏡頭因為\n\n21\n00:07:08,283 --> 00:07:08,343\n﹚林楚茵﹚\n\n22\n00:07:28,785 --> 00:07:44,978\n呃從這麼多個部會至少交通部內政部經濟部農業部再到地方政府有沒有全面的去清查在我們的重要的軍事要塞外頭有沒有類似這樣的監視器因為他的用意原本可能是為了交通\n\n23\n00:08:18,645 --> 00:08:25,232\n向委員報告,首先我先就這個個案,這個個案除了國防部的回應之外,我們也聯繫了農業部的農水署\n\n24\n00:08:30,757 --> 00:08:54,607\n那他後面他們認為這個鏡頭他們沒有需要所以除了先遮遮蔽之外那後面是已經移除了這是第一個部分那第二個有關於全面清查部分因為我今天我後面的數據我下去跟委員報告但針對這個案子我們有下一個通令第一個就是這些基於公務部門他為了監控他的這些\n\n25\n00:08:56,348 --> 00:08:56,568\n李卓人議員\n\n26\n00:09:16,621 --> 00:09:16,781\n李卓人議員\n\n27\n00:09:33,815 --> 00:09:35,016\n提醒對方在這個密碼設定上面要符合安全需求以上報告\n\n28\n00:09:54,188 --> 00:09:56,570\n一二三四五六七八個八這種原來設定的就是原設定然後還沒有進行這種\n\n29\n00:10:08,772 --> 00:10:17,339\n我相信有一些數字可能會是機密性的問題那本席想要求的是說國防部能夠在一個時間內徹底的清查然後確認所有在軍事要塞或是營區附近的這些公部門的監視器也都是認證過不是來對準我們的營區門口或是沒有安全疑慮這樣可以嗎\n\n30\n00:10:34,813 --> 00:10:34,994\n林楚茵\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n129\t15469\t主席有請顧立雄部長部長請等一下詢答當中如果有相關業務的將官或是官員就請你們自行上台配通部長去詢答林委好部長好我剛剛特別認真看了我們的業務報告其中第6頁跟第7頁\n16830\t35289\t特別點到就是面對中共的認知作戰所以國防部持續有包括防制假訊息啊反制中共軍事威脅提升媒體識讀能力那多元反制那麼第7頁也寫到說本部跟國防院學術界有合制所謂的這個媒體識讀的教學影片\n35929\t63571\t那麼我們現在是不是就直接來實測一下就是面對中共的這個認知作戰或是這些訊息的提供我們在這個反制上面或者是軍事威脅上面媒體識讀的能力到底我們能夠讀出什麼來這個是昨天其實我在我們同樣委員會當中我有詢問過這個就是蔡明彥蔡局長這個是中國的軍演他們首度在YT上面直播\n64412\t83762\t那麼我們都知道這個YouTube上面中國人是看不到的啦他們除非要翻牆啦那麼也就是說其實只有我們在這個自由民主的台灣或是其他全球可以看得到那麼我就想要就教部長或者是我們現在陪同的將官們這樣的一個直播影片\n84942\t108562\t當中國其實是看不到的時候他所要傳遞的訊息是什麼尤其是他是從中午12點13分開始然後到19點19分可是如果根據我們的了解現在他們所宣布的時間期程是大概6點左右就結束了那麼面對這種直播他透露了什麼樣的訊息呢部長\n110244\t116701\t其實我們有相當成就發現他那個直播很多是預錄的畫面並不是真的直播\n119645\t148006\t委員好我是情報司司長是當天的這個直播如同剛剛部長所說的這個絕大部分它都是預製好而且有很多其實還有左右兩邊的畫面喔在我們的鏡頭所以看得到的右手邊它其實就是有一個量是網路宣傳影片啊講這個共軍軍力有多麼英雄威武然後聯合利劍但它其實這個就是拍攝好的你是指這個部分嗎是好\n151127\t176039\t直播的部分也有部分是預錄的直播的部分應該就我們去觀察他那個跟現場這個演習的這個部分狀況是不一樣看得出來而且有影片發現是跟過去某一些影片其實是完全是一樣的所以看得出來是有很大部分是預錄的一個不是真正的直播的\n176613\t196854\t好那麼類似這樣的訊息當然國防部不見得會把這樣的訊息公開給民眾知道但是有沒有把你們的研判做一個包括在這一次之後做一個必要的讓我們知道軍中袍則能夠知道因為這個是有助於其實\n197975\t225005\t在化解認知作戰當中一個非常重要的就像我們看到右手邊我們都知道這一定是預錄的畫面可是我們不知道的是在左手邊是預錄的畫面但是在右手邊的時候這個所謂直播網當中他所拍攝的到底是廈門是不是真的是廈門然後廈門的對岸所看出來的到底是哪裡是金門嗎還是其他的地方那像這樣的時候比如說這是預錄的畫面你就會覺得說這是造假\n227586\t242524\t那這樣的訊息有沒有直接的在部隊當中在軍隊當中讓我們國軍弟兄知道那麼他有傳達是什麼樣的資訊到底是我們面對這樣的畫面該恐懼焦慮或者是其實他就是一個紙老虎\n243004\t243164\t﹚林楚茵\n260725\t262747\t報委員很簡單跟委員報告這個其實就是一個複合式的灰色地帶很明顯的太陽舉兩個簡單的例子\n286434\t294581\t他所要傳遞出來的訊息裡面所講的重點不外乎就是要告訴我們所收看的這個民眾\n296479\t317219\t因果關係因為他認為我們做了什麼或他就還會採取對應式的一個果那回過頭來其實不管我們做什麼他早就已經想好他要做這件事情所以這因果關係在我們灰色地帶洗腦的這個類型裡面我們把它歸納這個就是欺騙因為他用這樣子的手段來去讓\n318493\t318813\t主席\n347805\t354019\t好 不好意思主席 我的這個幕不見了被認知 被滲透了嘛\n363783\t378128\t剛委員指教我們應該要反制這樣子的一個假訊息的一個作為我會建議就是說把它也放進你們的教材當中\n379787\t379947\t李卓人議員\n400460\t426201\t交通部內政部經濟部農業部其實他為了當然所謂現在的政府資訊公開那麼他會有很多其實他當然原本的設立的意義跟目的並不是為了這個去洩露軍機或是軍事要塞但是在政府資訊公開的情況底下那麼我們發現9月5號有一個農業部底下所屬的農水署水利署的這個鏡頭因為\n428283\t428343\t﹚林楚茵﹚\n448785\t464978\t呃從這麼多個部會至少交通部內政部經濟部農業部再到地方政府有沒有全面的去清查在我們的重要的軍事要塞外頭有沒有類似這樣的監視器因為他的用意原本可能是為了交通\n465538\t494735\t對﹖\n498645\t505232\t向委員報告,首先我先就這個個案,這個個案除了國防部的回應之外,我們也聯繫了農業部的農水署\n510757\t534607\t那他後面他們認為這個鏡頭他們沒有需要所以除了先遮遮蔽之外那後面是已經移除了這是第一個部分那第二個有關於全面清查部分因為我今天我後面的數據我下去跟委員報告但針對這個案子我們有下一個通令第一個就是這些基於公務部門他為了監控他的這些\n536348\t536568\t李卓人議員\n556621\t556781\t李卓人議員\n573815\t575016\t提醒對方在這個密碼設定上面要符合安全需求以上報告\n594188\t596570\t一二三四五六七八個八這種原來設定的就是原設定然後還沒有進行這種\n608772\t617339\t我相信有一些數字可能會是機密性的問題那本席想要求的是說國防部能夠在一個時間內徹底的清查然後確認所有在軍事要塞或是營區附近的這些公部門的監視器也都是認證過不是來對準我們的營區門口或是沒有安全疑慮這樣可以嗎\n634813\t634994\t林楚茵\n","txt":"主席有請顧立雄部長部長請等一下詢答當中如果有相關業務的將官或是官員就請你們自行上台配通部長去詢答林委好部長好我剛剛特別認真看了我們的業務報告其中第6頁跟第7頁\n特別點到就是面對中共的認知作戰所以國防部持續有包括防制假訊息啊反制中共軍事威脅提升媒體識讀能力那多元反制那麼第7頁也寫到說本部跟國防院學術界有合制所謂的這個媒體識讀的教學影片\n那麼我們現在是不是就直接來實測一下就是面對中共的這個認知作戰或是這些訊息的提供我們在這個反制上面或者是軍事威脅上面媒體識讀的能力到底我們能夠讀出什麼來這個是昨天其實我在我們同樣委員會當中我有詢問過這個就是蔡明彥蔡局長這個是中國的軍演他們首度在YT上面直播\n那麼我們都知道這個YouTube上面中國人是看不到的啦他們除非要翻牆啦那麼也就是說其實只有我們在這個自由民主的台灣或是其他全球可以看得到那麼我就想要就教部長或者是我們現在陪同的將官們這樣的一個直播影片\n當中國其實是看不到的時候他所要傳遞的訊息是什麼尤其是他是從中午12點13分開始然後到19點19分可是如果根據我們的了解現在他們所宣布的時間期程是大概6點左右就結束了那麼面對這種直播他透露了什麼樣的訊息呢部長\n其實我們有相當成就發現他那個直播很多是預錄的畫面並不是真的直播\n委員好我是情報司司長是當天的這個直播如同剛剛部長所說的這個絕大部分它都是預製好而且有很多其實還有左右兩邊的畫面喔在我們的鏡頭所以看得到的右手邊它其實就是有一個量是網路宣傳影片啊講這個共軍軍力有多麼英雄威武然後聯合利劍但它其實這個就是拍攝好的你是指這個部分嗎是好\n直播的部分也有部分是預錄的直播的部分應該就我們去觀察他那個跟現場這個演習的這個部分狀況是不一樣看得出來而且有影片發現是跟過去某一些影片其實是完全是一樣的所以看得出來是有很大部分是預錄的一個不是真正的直播的\n好那麼類似這樣的訊息當然國防部不見得會把這樣的訊息公開給民眾知道但是有沒有把你們的研判做一個包括在這一次之後做一個必要的讓我們知道軍中袍則能夠知道因為這個是有助於其實\n在化解認知作戰當中一個非常重要的就像我們看到右手邊我們都知道這一定是預錄的畫面可是我們不知道的是在左手邊是預錄的畫面但是在右手邊的時候這個所謂直播網當中他所拍攝的到底是廈門是不是真的是廈門然後廈門的對岸所看出來的到底是哪裡是金門嗎還是其他的地方那像這樣的時候比如說這是預錄的畫面你就會覺得說這是造假\n那這樣的訊息有沒有直接的在部隊當中在軍隊當中讓我們國軍弟兄知道那麼他有傳達是什麼樣的資訊到底是我們面對這樣的畫面該恐懼焦慮或者是其實他就是一個紙老虎\n﹚林楚茵\n報委員很簡單跟委員報告這個其實就是一個複合式的灰色地帶很明顯的太陽舉兩個簡單的例子\n他所要傳遞出來的訊息裡面所講的重點不外乎就是要告訴我們所收看的這個民眾\n因果關係因為他認為我們做了什麼或他就還會採取對應式的一個果那回過頭來其實不管我們做什麼他早就已經想好他要做這件事情所以這因果關係在我們灰色地帶洗腦的這個類型裡面我們把它歸納這個就是欺騙因為他用這樣子的手段來去讓\n主席\n好 不好意思主席 我的這個幕不見了被認知 被滲透了嘛\n剛委員指教我們應該要反制這樣子的一個假訊息的一個作為我會建議就是說把它也放進你們的教材當中\n李卓人議員\n交通部內政部經濟部農業部其實他為了當然所謂現在的政府資訊公開那麼他會有很多其實他當然原本的設立的意義跟目的並不是為了這個去洩露軍機或是軍事要塞但是在政府資訊公開的情況底下那麼我們發現9月5號有一個農業部底下所屬的農水署水利署的這個鏡頭因為\n﹚林楚茵﹚\n呃從這麼多個部會至少交通部內政部經濟部農業部再到地方政府有沒有全面的去清查在我們的重要的軍事要塞外頭有沒有類似這樣的監視器因為他的用意原本可能是為了交通\n對﹖\n向委員報告,首先我先就這個個案,這個個案除了國防部的回應之外,我們也聯繫了農業部的農水署\n那他後面他們認為這個鏡頭他們沒有需要所以除了先遮遮蔽之外那後面是已經移除了這是第一個部分那第二個有關於全面清查部分因為我今天我後面的數據我下去跟委員報告但針對這個案子我們有下一個通令第一個就是這些基於公務部門他為了監控他的這些\n李卓人議員\n李卓人議員\n提醒對方在這個密碼設定上面要符合安全需求以上報告\n一二三四五六七八個八這種原來設定的就是原設定然後還沒有進行這種\n我相信有一些數字可能會是機密性的問題那本席想要求的是說國防部能夠在一個時間內徹底的清查然後確認所有在軍事要塞或是營區附近的這些公部門的監視器也都是認證過不是來對準我們的營區門口或是沒有安全疑慮這樣可以嗎\n林楚茵\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.129 --> 00:15.469\n主席有請顧立雄部長部長請等一下詢答當中如果有相關業務的將官或是官員就請你們自行上台配通部長去詢答林委好部長好我剛剛特別認真看了我們的業務報告其中第6頁跟第7頁\n\n00:16.830 --> 00:35.289\n特別點到就是面對中共的認知作戰所以國防部持續有包括防制假訊息啊反制中共軍事威脅提升媒體識讀能力那多元反制那麼第7頁也寫到說本部跟國防院學術界有合制所謂的這個媒體識讀的教學影片\n\n00:35.929 --> 01:03.571\n那麼我們現在是不是就直接來實測一下就是面對中共的這個認知作戰或是這些訊息的提供我們在這個反制上面或者是軍事威脅上面媒體識讀的能力到底我們能夠讀出什麼來這個是昨天其實我在我們同樣委員會當中我有詢問過這個就是蔡明彥蔡局長這個是中國的軍演他們首度在YT上面直播\n\n01:04.412 --> 01:23.762\n那麼我們都知道這個YouTube上面中國人是看不到的啦他們除非要翻牆啦那麼也就是說其實只有我們在這個自由民主的台灣或是其他全球可以看得到那麼我就想要就教部長或者是我們現在陪同的將官們這樣的一個直播影片\n\n01:24.942 --> 01:48.562\n當中國其實是看不到的時候他所要傳遞的訊息是什麼尤其是他是從中午12點13分開始然後到19點19分可是如果根據我們的了解現在他們所宣布的時間期程是大概6點左右就結束了那麼面對這種直播他透露了什麼樣的訊息呢部長\n\n01:50.244 --> 01:56.701\n其實我們有相當成就發現他那個直播很多是預錄的畫面並不是真的直播\n\n01:59.645 --> 02:28.006\n委員好我是情報司司長是當天的這個直播如同剛剛部長所說的這個絕大部分它都是預製好而且有很多其實還有左右兩邊的畫面喔在我們的鏡頭所以看得到的右手邊它其實就是有一個量是網路宣傳影片啊講這個共軍軍力有多麼英雄威武然後聯合利劍但它其實這個就是拍攝好的你是指這個部分嗎是好\n\n02:31.127 --> 02:56.039\n直播的部分也有部分是預錄的直播的部分應該就我們去觀察他那個跟現場這個演習的這個部分狀況是不一樣看得出來而且有影片發現是跟過去某一些影片其實是完全是一樣的所以看得出來是有很大部分是預錄的一個不是真正的直播的\n\n02:56.613 --> 03:16.854\n好那麼類似這樣的訊息當然國防部不見得會把這樣的訊息公開給民眾知道但是有沒有把你們的研判做一個包括在這一次之後做一個必要的讓我們知道軍中袍則能夠知道因為這個是有助於其實\n\n03:17.975 --> 03:45.005\n在化解認知作戰當中一個非常重要的就像我們看到右手邊我們都知道這一定是預錄的畫面可是我們不知道的是在左手邊是預錄的畫面但是在右手邊的時候這個所謂直播網當中他所拍攝的到底是廈門是不是真的是廈門然後廈門的對岸所看出來的到底是哪裡是金門嗎還是其他的地方那像這樣的時候比如說這是預錄的畫面你就會覺得說這是造假\n\n03:47.586 --> 04:02.524\n那這樣的訊息有沒有直接的在部隊當中在軍隊當中讓我們國軍弟兄知道那麼他有傳達是什麼樣的資訊到底是我們面對這樣的畫面該恐懼焦慮或者是其實他就是一個紙老虎\n\n04:03.004 --> 04:03.164\n﹚林楚茵\n\n04:20.725 --> 04:22.747\n報委員很簡單跟委員報告這個其實就是一個複合式的灰色地帶很明顯的太陽舉兩個簡單的例子\n\n04:46.434 --> 04:54.581\n他所要傳遞出來的訊息裡面所講的重點不外乎就是要告訴我們所收看的這個民眾\n\n04:56.479 --> 05:17.219\n因果關係因為他認為我們做了什麼或他就還會採取對應式的一個果那回過頭來其實不管我們做什麼他早就已經想好他要做這件事情所以這因果關係在我們灰色地帶洗腦的這個類型裡面我們把它歸納這個就是欺騙因為他用這樣子的手段來去讓\n\n05:18.493 --> 05:18.813\n主席\n\n05:47.805 --> 05:54.019\n好不好意思主席我的這個幕不見了被認知被滲透了嘛\n\n06:03.783 --> 06:18.128\n剛委員指教我們應該要反制這樣子的一個假訊息的一個作為我會建議就是說把它也放進你們的教材當中\n\n06:19.787 --> 06:19.947\n李卓人議員\n\n06:40.460 --> 07:06.201\n交通部內政部經濟部農業部其實他為了當然所謂現在的政府資訊公開那麼他會有很多其實他當然原本的設立的意義跟目的並不是為了這個去洩露軍機或是軍事要塞但是在政府資訊公開的情況底下那麼我們發現9月5號有一個農業部底下所屬的農水署水利署的這個鏡頭因為\n\n07:08.283 --> 07:08.343\n﹚林楚茵﹚\n\n07:28.785 --> 07:44.978\n呃從這麼多個部會至少交通部內政部經濟部農業部再到地方政府有沒有全面的去清查在我們的重要的軍事要塞外頭有沒有類似這樣的監視器因為他的用意原本可能是為了交通\n\n08:18.645 --> 08:25.232\n向委員報告,首先我先就這個個案,這個個案除了國防部的回應之外,我們也聯繫了農業部的農水署\n\n08:30.757 --> 08:54.607\n那他後面他們認為這個鏡頭他們沒有需要所以除了先遮遮蔽之外那後面是已經移除了這是第一個部分那第二個有關於全面清查部分因為我今天我後面的數據我下去跟委員報告但針對這個案子我們有下一個通令第一個就是這些基於公務部門他為了監控他的這些\n\n08:56.348 --> 08:56.568\n李卓人議員\n\n09:16.621 --> 09:16.781\n李卓人議員\n\n09:33.815 --> 09:35.016\n提醒對方在這個密碼設定上面要符合安全需求以上報告\n\n09:54.188 --> 09:56.570\n一二三四五六七八個八這種原來設定的就是原設定然後還沒有進行這種\n\n10:08.772 --> 10:17.339\n我相信有一些數字可能會是機密性的問題那本席想要求的是說國防部能夠在一個時間內徹底的清查然後確認所有在軍事要塞或是營區附近的這些公部門的監視器也都是認證過不是來對準我們的營區門口或是沒有安全疑慮這樣可以嗎\n\n10:34.813 --> 10:34.994\n林楚茵\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.129,"end":15.469,"text":"主席有請顧立雄部長部長請等一下詢答當中如果有相關業務的將官或是官員就請你們自行上台配通部長去詢答林委好部長好我剛剛特別認真看了我們的業務報告其中第6頁跟第7頁"},{"start":16.83,"end":35.289,"text":"特別點到就是面對中共的認知作戰所以國防部持續有包括防制假訊息啊反制中共軍事威脅提升媒體識讀能力那多元反制那麼第7頁也寫到說本部跟國防院學術界有合制所謂的這個媒體識讀的教學影片"},{"start":35.929,"end":63.571,"text":"那麼我們現在是不是就直接來實測一下就是面對中共的這個認知作戰或是這些訊息的提供我們在這個反制上面或者是軍事威脅上面媒體識讀的能力到底我們能夠讀出什麼來這個是昨天其實我在我們同樣委員會當中我有詢問過這個就是蔡明彥蔡局長這個是中國的軍演他們首度在YT上面直播"},{"start":64.412,"end":83.762,"text":"那麼我們都知道這個YouTube上面中國人是看不到的啦他們除非要翻牆啦那麼也就是說其實只有我們在這個自由民主的台灣或是其他全球可以看得到那麼我就想要就教部長或者是我們現在陪同的將官們這樣的一個直播影片"},{"start":84.942,"end":108.562,"text":"當中國其實是看不到的時候他所要傳遞的訊息是什麼尤其是他是從中午12點13分開始然後到19點19分可是如果根據我們的了解現在他們所宣布的時間期程是大概6點左右就結束了那麼面對這種直播他透露了什麼樣的訊息呢部長"},{"start":110.244,"end":116.701,"text":"其實我們有相當成就發現他那個直播很多是預錄的畫面並不是真的直播"},{"start":119.645,"end":148.006,"text":"委員好我是情報司司長是當天的這個直播如同剛剛部長所說的這個絕大部分它都是預製好而且有很多其實還有左右兩邊的畫面喔在我們的鏡頭所以看得到的右手邊它其實就是有一個量是網路宣傳影片啊講這個共軍軍力有多麼英雄威武然後聯合利劍但它其實這個就是拍攝好的你是指這個部分嗎是好"},{"start":151.127,"end":176.039,"text":"直播的部分也有部分是預錄的直播的部分應該就我們去觀察他那個跟現場這個演習的這個部分狀況是不一樣看得出來而且有影片發現是跟過去某一些影片其實是完全是一樣的所以看得出來是有很大部分是預錄的一個不是真正的直播的"},{"start":176.613,"end":196.854,"text":"好那麼類似這樣的訊息當然國防部不見得會把這樣的訊息公開給民眾知道但是有沒有把你們的研判做一個包括在這一次之後做一個必要的讓我們知道軍中袍則能夠知道因為這個是有助於其實"},{"start":197.975,"end":225.005,"text":"在化解認知作戰當中一個非常重要的就像我們看到右手邊我們都知道這一定是預錄的畫面可是我們不知道的是在左手邊是預錄的畫面但是在右手邊的時候這個所謂直播網當中他所拍攝的到底是廈門是不是真的是廈門然後廈門的對岸所看出來的到底是哪裡是金門嗎還是其他的地方那像這樣的時候比如說這是預錄的畫面你就會覺得說這是造假"},{"start":227.586,"end":242.524,"text":"那這樣的訊息有沒有直接的在部隊當中在軍隊當中讓我們國軍弟兄知道那麼他有傳達是什麼樣的資訊到底是我們面對這樣的畫面該恐懼焦慮或者是其實他就是一個紙老虎"},{"start":243.004,"end":243.164,"text":"﹚林楚茵"},{"start":260.725,"end":262.747,"text":"報委員很簡單跟委員報告這個其實就是一個複合式的灰色地帶很明顯的太陽舉兩個簡單的例子"},{"start":286.434,"end":294.581,"text":"他所要傳遞出來的訊息裡面所講的重點不外乎就是要告訴我們所收看的這個民眾"},{"start":296.479,"end":317.219,"text":"因果關係因為他認為我們做了什麼或他就還會採取對應式的一個果那回過頭來其實不管我們做什麼他早就已經想好他要做這件事情所以這因果關係在我們灰色地帶洗腦的這個類型裡面我們把它歸納這個就是欺騙因為他用這樣子的手段來去讓"},{"start":318.493,"end":318.813,"text":"主席"},{"start":347.805,"end":354.019,"text":"好 不好意思主席 我的這個幕不見了被認知 被滲透了嘛"},{"start":363.783,"end":378.128,"text":"剛委員指教我們應該要反制這樣子的一個假訊息的一個作為我會建議就是說把它也放進你們的教材當中"},{"start":379.787,"end":379.947,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":400.46,"end":426.201,"text":"交通部內政部經濟部農業部其實他為了當然所謂現在的政府資訊公開那麼他會有很多其實他當然原本的設立的意義跟目的並不是為了這個去洩露軍機或是軍事要塞但是在政府資訊公開的情況底下那麼我們發現9月5號有一個農業部底下所屬的農水署水利署的這個鏡頭因為"},{"start":428.283,"end":428.343,"text":"﹚林楚茵﹚"},{"start":448.785,"end":464.978,"text":"呃從這麼多個部會至少交通部內政部經濟部農業部再到地方政府有沒有全面的去清查在我們的重要的軍事要塞外頭有沒有類似這樣的監視器因為他的用意原本可能是為了交通"},{"start":465.538,"end":494.735,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":498.645,"end":505.232,"text":"向委員報告,首先我先就這個個案,這個個案除了國防部的回應之外,我們也聯繫了農業部的農水署"},{"start":510.757,"end":534.607,"text":"那他後面他們認為這個鏡頭他們沒有需要所以除了先遮遮蔽之外那後面是已經移除了這是第一個部分那第二個有關於全面清查部分因為我今天我後面的數據我下去跟委員報告但針對這個案子我們有下一個通令第一個就是這些基於公務部門他為了監控他的這些"},{"start":536.348,"end":536.568,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":556.621,"end":556.781,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":573.815,"end":575.016,"text":"提醒對方在這個密碼設定上面要符合安全需求以上報告"},{"start":594.188,"end":596.57,"text":"一二三四五六七八個八這種原來設定的就是原設定然後還沒有進行這種"},{"start":608.772,"end":617.339,"text":"我相信有一些數字可能會是機密性的問題那本席想要求的是說國防部能夠在一個時間內徹底的清查然後確認所有在軍事要塞或是營區附近的這些公部門的監視器也都是認證過不是來對準我們的營區門口或是沒有安全疑慮這樣可以嗎"},{"start":634.813,"end":634.994,"text":"林楚茵"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":385,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時36分）謝謝主席，主席，有請顧立雄部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["林委員楚茵：等一下詢答當中如果有相關業務的將官或是官員，就請你們自行上台陪同部長一起作答。"],["顧部長立雄：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。我剛剛特別認真看了你們的業務報告，其中第6頁跟第7頁特別點到面對中共的認知作戰，所以國防部持續有包括防治假訊息、反制中共軍事威脅、提升媒體識讀能力、多元反制；第7頁也寫到本部跟國防院、學術界有合製所謂的媒體識讀的教學影片，那麼我們現在是不是就直接來實測一下，面對中共的認知作戰或是這些訊息的提供，我們在反制上面或者是軍事威脅上面，媒體識讀的能力方面，到底我們能夠讀出什麼來。這個其實昨天在同樣的委員會當中，我有詢問過蔡明彥局長，這個是中國的軍演，他們首度在YT上面直播，我們都知道YouTube上面，中國人是看不到的啦！他們除非要翻牆，也就是說，其實只有我們在這個自由民主的臺灣或是其他全球可以看得到。那麼我就想要就教部長或者是我們現在陪同的將官們，這樣的一個直播影片，當中國其實是看不到的時候，它所要傳遞的訊息是什麼？尤其是它是從中午12點13分開始，然後到19點19分，可是根據我們的了解，現在他們所宣布的時間、期程大概6點左右就結束了，那麼面對這種直播，它透露了什麼樣的訊息呢？部長。"],["顧部長立雄：其實我們有相當程度發現那個直播很多是預錄的畫面，並不是真的直播。"],["謝次長日升：委員好，我是情報次長，當天的這個直播，如同剛剛部長所說的，絕大部分都是預製好，而且有很多……"],["林委員楚茵：其實它有左右兩邊的畫面，在我們的鏡頭看得到的右手邊，它其實就是有一個像是網路宣傳影片，講共軍軍力有多麼英雄威武，然後聯合利劍，但它其實就是拍攝好的，你是指這個部分嗎？"],["謝次長日升：是。"],["林委員楚茵：好，另外呢？"],["顧部長立雄：直播的部分也……"],["林委員楚茵：直播的部分呢？"],["顧部長立雄：也有部分是預錄的。"],["謝次長日升：直播的內容裡面也有很多是預錄的。"],["顧部長立雄：直播的部分應該就我們去觀察，跟現場演習的部分狀況是不一樣的，看得出來，而且有影片發現是跟過去某一些影片其實是完全一樣的，所以看得出來有很大部分是預錄的，不是真正的直播。"],["林委員楚茵：好，那麼類似這樣的訊息，當然國防部不見得會把這樣的訊息公開給民眾知道，但是有沒有把你們的研判，包括在這一次之後，做一個必要的讓我們知道、讓軍中袍澤能夠知道？因為這個其實是有助於在化解認知作戰當中一個非常重要的，就像我們看到左手邊，我們都知道這一定是預錄的畫面，可是我們不知道的是，在右手邊這個所謂的直播網當中，它所拍攝的廈門到底是不是真的是廈門，然後廈門的對岸所看到的到底是哪裡？是金門嗎？還是其他的地方？像這樣的時候，比如說這是預錄的畫面，你就會覺得這是造假，這樣的訊息有沒有直接的在軍隊當中，讓我們國軍弟兄知道？那麼它有傳達出什麼樣的資訊，到底我們面對這樣的畫面是該恐懼、焦慮或是其實它就是一個紙老虎，或者是它就是一個虛假的假訊息，我們該怎麼樣來判讀，它所傳達的訊息是什麼？比如說我們現在講到的，我們還有跟學界合作進行所謂媒體的識讀，那這個我們到底識讀出什麼？因為他如果覺得這一次做了有效，他下一次會再做，但是如果你破解他，那麼至少下一次，我們就會用不一樣的心態來看這個直播。既然他會第一次在YouTube上面的直播，我認為下一次只要他再軍演，他會用同樣的方法來做。"],["謝次長日升：報告委員，很簡單的跟委員報告，這個其實很明顯的就是一個複合式灰色地帶的態樣。舉兩個簡單的例子，它所要傳遞出來的訊息裡面所講的重點，不外乎就是要告訴我們所收看的民眾一個因果關係，因為它認為我們做了什麼，它才會採取對應式的一個果。那回過頭來，其實不管我們做什麼，它早就已經想好它要做這件事情了，所以這個因果關係，在灰色地帶洗腦的這個類型裡面，我們把它歸納，這個就是欺騙。因為它用這樣子的手段去讓收視的民眾認為，如果臺灣不做這件事情，或者不管是哪一個國家，你不做這件事情，理論上，我就不會做這個軍演。但是我們要跟委員還有要跟社會大眾說，這個因果關係是完全錯誤的，這是第一個我們要特別強調的，在複合式的灰色地帶裡面，特別是像這樣的行為，其實是已經長時間在我們觀察、注意的類型裡面。謝謝。"],["林委員楚茵：不好意思，主席，我的螢幕不見了，被認知作戰了？被滲透了嘛？"],["顧部長立雄：所以就剛剛委員指教的，跟委員報告，我們應該要反制這樣子的假訊息的作為。"],["林委員楚茵：對。我會建議把它也放進你們的教材當中，因為我想它本身所要傳達的這種所謂恫嚇或是認知戰的訊息，這當中的含意必須要傳達清楚。","另外，本席也非常關心，本席一直持續在追蹤，就是在9月6號的時候，媒體沃草所提供，在我們的營區周圍，事實上交通部、內政部、經濟部、農業部等等，現在為了所謂的政府資訊公開會有很多監視攝影機，當然它原本設立的意義跟目的並不是為了去洩漏軍機或是軍事要塞，但是在政府資訊公開的情況底下，我們發現9月5號有一個農業部底下所屬的農水署的鏡頭，在沒有關注的情況底下偏移而拍攝到了軍方營區的動態影片。","我必須要先說的是，國防部的回應非常的迅速、確實，也說立刻就做了遮蔽，但是我想要就教請問的是後續的部分，這麼多個部會，至少交通部、內政部、經濟部、農業部再到地方政府，有沒有全面的去清查，在我們重要的軍事要塞外頭有沒有類似這樣的監視器？它設置的用意原本可能是為了交通，也可能是為了農田灌溉、水利、清淤、防災等等的需求，既然有一支鏡頭發生這樣的狀況，不太可能靠媒體或者是本席去一個一個的追查。9月5號發生這樣的事情之後，針對這一支攝影鏡頭，國防部迅速給出了回應，但是我想請問部長，有沒有趁這個機會，好好的來檢視其他的鏡頭？"],["陳參謀長建義：委員好，我是陸軍司令部參謀長。向委員報告，首先我先就個案，這個個案除了國防部的回應之外，我們也聯繫了農業部的農水署，後面他們認為這個鏡頭他們沒有需要，所以除了先遮蔽之外，後面已經移除了，這是第一個部分。第二個，有關於全面清查的部分，後面的數據我會後跟委員報告，但針對這個案子，我們有下一個通令，第一個就是公務部門基於為了監控其作業是否正常，會依據相關的規範通知我們國軍包含保防部門並提出申請。這部分有兩個複式檢控機制，第一個就是我們要去確認監控螢幕所拍攝的區域，的確是基於它的作業需求，而且不能因年久鬆動而偏移到其他地方，這部分我們會藉由營區的巡管還有定時的電話通聯。比如說對方是什麼單位，我們每天有聯繫，請對方查看一下他的監視鏡頭是否正常，大概會這樣；再加上他們來巡檢的時候會知會營區，我們會再去跟他確認。最後一個就是，這些影像如果是基於公眾利益必須要公開，那沒有問題，但如果是不能公開的，我們會提醒對方，在密碼設定上要符合安全需求。以上報告。"],["顧部長立雄：也就是說它的密碼設定不能夠用那一種，類似這種……"],["林委員楚茵：1234567或是8個8這種。"],["顧部長立雄：這種原來設定的，就是原設定，然後它沒有進行這種……"],["林委員楚茵：沒有異動，然後太好破解？"],["顧部長立雄：就是類似懶人碼這種作法就對了。"],["林委員楚茵：好。我相信有一些數字可能會是機密性的問題，那本席想要求的是，國防部能夠在一個時間內澈底的清查，確認所有在軍事要塞或是營區附近的這些公部門的監視器也都是認證過，不是來對準我們的營區門口，或是沒有安全疑慮，這樣可以嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：是，我們來進行。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，部長、參謀長請回。","下一位委員詢答之前，我先宣告一件事情，目前有收到臨時提案2案，這兩案是本席提的，我歡迎跨黨派的委員大家都來連署，待會本委員會陳冠廷委員詢答結束後，我們再進行處理，處理完畢屆時休息5分鐘。","現在進行詢答的委員是洪申翰委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","洪申翰","林憶君","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林岱樺","鍾佳濱","馬文君","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","徐富癸","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉建國"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00001"}}}