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0.994}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 159.553, \"end\": 159.694, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 159.694, \"end\": 159.834, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 159.834, \"end\": 159.994, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 159.994, \"end\": 160.114, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 160.114, \"end\": 160.414, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 160.414, \"end\": 160.434, \"score\": 0.029}]}, {\"start\": 161.135, \"end\": 163.078, \"text\": \"第三個部分也是最重要就是說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 161.135, \"end\": 161.215, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 161.215, \"end\": 161.415, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 161.415, \"end\": 161.556, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 161.556, \"end\": 161.816, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 161.816, \"end\": 161.976, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 161.976, \"end\": 162.197, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 189.957, \"end\": 190.237, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 190.237, \"end\": 190.477, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 190.477, \"end\": 190.537, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 190.537, \"end\": 190.758, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 190.758, \"end\": 191.038, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 191.038, \"end\": 191.158, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 191.158, \"end\": 191.438, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 191.438, \"end\": 191.638, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 191.638, \"end\": 191.778, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 191.778, \"end\": 191.878, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 191.878, \"end\": 192.019, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 192.019, \"end\": 192.219, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 192.219, \"end\": 192.239, \"score\": 0.826}]}, {\"start\": 192.699, \"end\": 220.635, \"text\": \"如果現在公糧在提高的時候會把過去的這些努力全部化為烏有那又重新來過所以部裡面的考量其實希望對於整體的稻農甚至整體的農業的產業是整體有效益的在投入資源下是正面的效益的對好那我順著接下來請問其實台灣有些米也還不錯啦就是這個反倒是未來我認為像有些就不一定會繳交公糧有些地方的米不知道阿爸舉一下哪些地方你沒有繳交公糧的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 192.699, \"end\": 192.819, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 192.819, \"end\": 193.159, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 193.159, \"end\": 193.399, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 193.399, \"end\": 193.72, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"糧\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 193.72, \"end\": 193.9, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 193.9, \"end\": 194.06, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 194.06, \"end\": 194.2, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 194.2, \"end\": 194.48, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 194.48, \"end\": 195.1, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,468 --> 00:00:08,549\n政策的成敗的責任最後會由行政機關負起還是由立法機關來負起責任?\n\n2\n00:00:26,192 --> 00:00:52,754\n我想政策的推動,一定是由行政單位來負最後的一個責任。所以這件事情最後的成敗以後,立法機關當然給很多的建議,但是最後萬一這個政策是有問題,其實都是由行政機關負責。是,是行政機關來負責,對。所以我覺得這個東西的權責其實要分得清楚。雖然立法機關會有很多的反應、民意反應的一些意見,但是最後都會回到行政機關身上,那行政機關就最後由你們整體的考量,因為國家的資源有限下,\n\n3\n00:00:53,635 --> 00:00:53,955\n賴瑞隆\n\n4\n00:01:24,239 --> 00:01:43,355\n整個即使你全部聽了立法院的建議最後如果萬一這個政策是失敗的其實負起責任的其實是部長不會是立法委員所以我覺得這件事情還是要回歸聖誕堂我自己也當過局長我很清楚這個分際是很清楚那這個農這個稻米的部分其實大家在努力以很多的策略上不同\n\n5\n00:01:44,847 --> 00:01:56,679\n提高公糧當然是一種選擇的方式但是我看到部長其實比較認可跟支持採用一級二轉3加3的稻米產業方案這個裡面的部長簡單的幾句話來講一下兩者之間的優缺好不好\n\n6\n00:02:00,743 --> 00:02:18,993\n我想我們分三個面向來講其實第一個部分就是當農業部在推動一個政策的時候對一個產業來講我們希望說政策的推動對所有的這個產業的人農民都能夠受益都能夠受益到同時受益到而不是針對特定的族群這是我們在思考的這一點點\n\n7\n00:02:20,073 --> 00:02:40,434\n公糧的部分就是特定的少數,對,然後第二個部分就是從經費的角度我們希望說用一個最少的經費能夠發揮最大的一個效益而這個政策不會跟其他的政策有互相干渴的部分也就是說發錢不見的是最好的方式\n\n8\n00:02:41,135 --> 00:02:43,078\n第三個部分也是最重要就是說\n\n9\n00:02:51,482 --> 00:03:12,239\n我們在考慮的就是當我用政府的資源投入在一些某一個產業的特定的族群的時候對其他的產業會相對的會受到一些經費的一個排擠那特別是我們現在推動了很多包括對地綠色幾乎很多都是希望能夠降低造作面積已經推動了很多而且逐步有些成效\n\n10\n00:03:12,699 --> 00:03:40,635\n如果現在公糧在提高的時候會把過去的這些努力全部化為烏有那又重新來過所以部裡面的考量其實希望對於整體的稻農甚至整體的農業的產業是整體有效益的在投入資源下是正面的效益的對好那我順著接下來請問其實台灣有些米也還不錯啦就是這個反倒是未來我認為像有些就不一定會繳交公糧有些地方的米不知道阿爸舉一下哪些地方你沒有繳交公糧的\n\n11\n00:03:42,281 --> 00:03:43,262\n我的意思說其實應該更鼓勵更多用這樣的方式\n\n12\n00:04:07,119 --> 00:04:07,259\n賴瑞隆\n\n13\n00:04:29,594 --> 00:04:52,565\n農業部除了既有的公糧裝應該要花更大的力氣在於好米的部分的怎麼樣讓他種出更多好米鼓勵更多好米的產生而不是反倒是逆向的循環對這是我們在推動一級二轉生產的一個政策第一個就是讓農民引導他種植品質然後第二個部分就是後面的外銷的部分我們也會做一些品牌的行銷的宣導跟他們的支持這個也請\n\n14\n00:04:53,866 --> 00:04:56,708\n我跟委員報告齁上個月我到日本的時候就跟貿易商就跟一些那邊的\n\n15\n00:05:16,664 --> 00:05:16,804\n賴瑞生\n\n16\n00:05:37,307 --> 00:05:52,581\n品牌拉得更好品質拉得更好我們就有機會我們在衝的是質而不是在衝量我覺得這個是比較有意義的那再來是雜糧的部分其實也是很重要的嘛我們也希望未來這塊雜糧的部分部裡面也持續在加強來推動啦\n\n17\n00:05:53,321 --> 00:06:21,901\n會,我想我們在二轉的部分其實就是有一些不中到的獎勵就希望他們不中到然後轉到雜糧那提高雜糧以後我們的自給率就會提升對我們糧食安全也會有確保這個我想我們會繼續來對,就是雜糧我們現在的是需求大於供給的啦是在這種狀況下的時候其實引導如果農民往這個方向的話其實他的收益會來得更好是而不是去中的到然後用供糧這個部分反倒不見得是最好的選擇是所以我希望\n\n18\n00:06:23,121 --> 00:06:39,547\n農業部持續的溝通啊,持續的能夠...對,我們會在這裡溝通好,那再來我要講其實要把握一點時間齁,前陣漁港其實很重要的一個建設啦齁,那但是我看了一下整個這個進度齁,多功能水產品的運銷中心的整個進度落後了41點多部長為什麼落後這麼多\n\n19\n00:06:43,427 --> 00:07:11,005\n我想這個部分國度組在執行的話我想我們也會要求國度組在這個部分能夠把過去落後的進度能夠趕上因為這個部分是大家所期待的那相對的我們有一些部分包括漁港的那個深度碼頭的部分都在做了現在最重要的就是一個運銷的加工這個中心這個中心完了以後就能夠串接整個部分其他的進度大致上有的營館層有的這一個落後的最多啦那我希望\n\n20\n00:07:11,705 --> 00:07:11,986\n委員會主席\n\n21\n00:07:29,783 --> 00:07:33,127\n部長這個可能要請還是要持續的邀請我講過很多次這個若你邀請到的是夠大的\n\n22\n00:07:53,187 --> 00:07:54,107\n謝謝委員提醒喔我也認為就是說一個一個一個營運經營主體一定選擇非常重要\n\n23\n00:08:12,934 --> 00:08:35,304\n選擇得對的話,後續就會非常順利,如果說選擇不對的時候,可能造成後續不好的一個面向發展,這個部分我想特別要努力。因為你選擇好的,光他自己可能就很在乎他的品牌了啦,他不會輕易砸掉自己的招牌嘛,所以他也會很認真,但是他進來他一定會經過很多的評估,包括他的投資能不能達到他的效益,所以我也希望,我知道年限有做了一些放寬,我也希望這是一個長遠的計畫,\n\n24\n00:08:36,925 --> 00:08:58,076\n牆上加牆啊我希望一個好的地點好的建築之後找到好的企業廠商來一起來合作那你希望把這個前鎮醫館齁國內最大的營養醫館把它效益擴展到最大好了解謝謝委員的提醒我們期待看到他確實有未來的主地市場豐洲市場那樣的一個樣貌能夠吸引更多國內外的到那邊去做採購好不好是好謝謝部長好辛苦\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6468\t8549\t政策的成敗的責任最後會由行政機關負起還是由立法機關來負起責任?\n26192\t52754\t我想政策的推動,一定是由行政單位來負最後的一個責任。所以這件事情最後的成敗以後,立法機關當然給很多的建議,但是最後萬一這個政策是有問題,其實都是由行政機關負責。是,是行政機關來負責,對。所以我覺得這個東西的權責其實要分得清楚。雖然立法機關會有很多的反應、民意反應的一些意見,但是最後都會回到行政機關身上,那行政機關就最後由你們整體的考量,因為國家的資源有限下,\n53635\t53955\t賴瑞隆\n84239\t103355\t整個即使你全部聽了立法院的建議最後如果萬一這個政策是失敗的其實負起責任的其實是部長不會是立法委員所以我覺得這件事情還是要回歸聖誕堂我自己也當過局長我很清楚這個分際是很清楚那這個農這個稻米的部分其實大家在努力以很多的策略上不同\n104847\t116679\t提高公糧當然是一種選擇的方式但是我看到部長其實比較認可跟支持採用一級二轉3加3的稻米產業方案這個裡面的部長簡單的幾句話來講一下兩者之間的優缺好不好\n120743\t138993\t我想我們分三個面向來講其實第一個部分就是當農業部在推動一個政策的時候對一個產業來講我們希望說政策的推動對所有的這個產業的人農民都能夠受益都能夠受益到同時受益到而不是針對特定的族群這是我們在思考的這一點點\n140073\t160434\t公糧的部分就是特定的少數,對,然後第二個部分就是從經費的角度我們希望說用一個最少的經費能夠發揮最大的一個效益而這個政策不會跟其他的政策有互相干渴的部分也就是說發錢不見的是最好的方式\n161135\t163078\t第三個部分也是最重要就是說\n171482\t192239\t我們在考慮的就是當我用政府的資源投入在一些某一個產業的特定的族群的時候對其他的產業會相對的會受到一些經費的一個排擠那特別是我們現在推動了很多包括對地綠色幾乎很多都是希望能夠降低造作面積已經推動了很多而且逐步有些成效\n192699\t220635\t如果現在公糧在提高的時候會把過去的這些努力全部化為烏有那又重新來過所以部裡面的考量其實希望對於整體的稻農甚至整體的農業的產業是整體有效益的在投入資源下是正面的效益的對好那我順著接下來請問其實台灣有些米也還不錯啦就是這個反倒是未來我認為像有些就不一定會繳交公糧有些地方的米不知道阿爸舉一下哪些地方你沒有繳交公糧的\n222281\t223262\t我的意思說其實應該更鼓勵更多用這樣的方式\n247119\t247259\t賴瑞隆\n269594\t292565\t農業部除了既有的公糧裝應該要花更大的力氣在於好米的部分的怎麼樣讓他種出更多好米鼓勵更多好米的產生而不是反倒是逆向的循環對這是我們在推動一級二轉生產的一個政策第一個就是讓農民引導他種植品質然後第二個部分就是後面的外銷的部分我們也會做一些品牌的行銷的宣導跟他們的支持這個也請\n293866\t296708\t我跟委員報告齁上個月我到日本的時候就跟貿易商就跟一些那邊的\n316664\t316804\t賴瑞生\n337307\t352581\t品牌拉得更好 品質拉得更好 我們就有機會我們在衝的是質而不是在衝量我覺得這個是比較有意義的那再來是雜糧的部分其實也是很重要的嘛我們也希望未來這塊雜糧的部分部裡面也持續在加強來推動啦\n353321\t381901\t會,我想我們在二轉的部分其實就是有一些不中到的獎勵就希望他們不中到然後轉到雜糧那提高雜糧以後我們的自給率就會提升對我們糧食安全也會有確保這個我想我們會繼續來對,就是雜糧我們現在的是需求大於供給的啦是在這種狀況下的時候其實引導如果農民往這個方向的話其實他的收益會來得更好是而不是去中的到然後用供糧這個部分反倒不見得是最好的選擇是所以我希望\n383121\t399547\t農業部持續的溝通啊,持續的能夠...對,我們會在這裡溝通好,那再來我要講其實要把握一點時間齁,前陣漁港其實很重要的一個建設啦齁,那但是我看了一下整個這個進度齁,多功能水產品的運銷中心的整個進度落後了41點多部長為什麼落後這麼多\n403427\t431005\t我想這個部分國度組在執行的話我想我們也會要求國度組在這個部分能夠把過去落後的進度能夠趕上因為這個部分是大家所期待的那相對的我們有一些部分包括漁港的那個深度碼頭的部分都在做了現在最重要的就是一個運銷的加工這個中心這個中心完了以後就能夠串接整個部分其他的進度大致上有的營館層有的這一個落後的最多啦那我希望\n431705\t431986\t委員會主席\n449783\t453127\t部長這個可能要請還是要持續的邀請我講過很多次這個若你邀請到的是夠大的\n473187\t474107\t謝謝委員提醒喔 我也認為就是說一個一個一個營運經營主體一定選擇非常重要\n492934\t515304\t選擇得對的話,後續就會非常順利,如果說選擇不對的時候,可能造成後續不好的一個面向發展,這個部分我想特別要努力。因為你選擇好的,光他自己可能就很在乎他的品牌了啦,他不會輕易砸掉自己的招牌嘛,所以他也會很認真,但是他進來他一定會經過很多的評估,包括他的投資能不能達到他的效益,所以我也希望,我知道年限有做了一些放寬,我也希望這是一個長遠的計畫,\n516925\t538076\t牆上加牆啊我希望一個好的地點好的建築之後找到好的企業廠商來一起來合作那你希望把這個前鎮醫館齁國內最大的營養醫館把它效益擴展到最大好了解謝謝委員的提醒我們期待看到他確實有未來的主地市場豐洲市場那樣的一個樣貌能夠吸引更多國內外的到那邊去做採購好不好是好謝謝部長好辛苦\n","txt":"政策的成敗的責任最後會由行政機關負起還是由立法機關來負起責任?\n我想政策的推動,一定是由行政單位來負最後的一個責任。所以這件事情最後的成敗以後,立法機關當然給很多的建議,但是最後萬一這個政策是有問題,其實都是由行政機關負責。是,是行政機關來負責,對。所以我覺得這個東西的權責其實要分得清楚。雖然立法機關會有很多的反應、民意反應的一些意見,但是最後都會回到行政機關身上,那行政機關就最後由你們整體的考量,因為國家的資源有限下,\n賴瑞隆\n整個即使你全部聽了立法院的建議最後如果萬一這個政策是失敗的其實負起責任的其實是部長不會是立法委員所以我覺得這件事情還是要回歸聖誕堂我自己也當過局長我很清楚這個分際是很清楚那這個農這個稻米的部分其實大家在努力以很多的策略上不同\n提高公糧當然是一種選擇的方式但是我看到部長其實比較認可跟支持採用一級二轉3加3的稻米產業方案這個裡面的部長簡單的幾句話來講一下兩者之間的優缺好不好\n我想我們分三個面向來講其實第一個部分就是當農業部在推動一個政策的時候對一個產業來講我們希望說政策的推動對所有的這個產業的人農民都能夠受益都能夠受益到同時受益到而不是針對特定的族群這是我們在思考的這一點點\n公糧的部分就是特定的少數,對,然後第二個部分就是從經費的角度我們希望說用一個最少的經費能夠發揮最大的一個效益而這個政策不會跟其他的政策有互相干渴的部分也就是說發錢不見的是最好的方式\n第三個部分也是最重要就是說\n我們在考慮的就是當我用政府的資源投入在一些某一個產業的特定的族群的時候對其他的產業會相對的會受到一些經費的一個排擠那特別是我們現在推動了很多包括對地綠色幾乎很多都是希望能夠降低造作面積已經推動了很多而且逐步有些成效\n如果現在公糧在提高的時候會把過去的這些努力全部化為烏有那又重新來過所以部裡面的考量其實希望對於整體的稻農甚至整體的農業的產業是整體有效益的在投入資源下是正面的效益的對好那我順著接下來請問其實台灣有些米也還不錯啦就是這個反倒是未來我認為像有些就不一定會繳交公糧有些地方的米不知道阿爸舉一下哪些地方你沒有繳交公糧的\n我的意思說其實應該更鼓勵更多用這樣的方式\n賴瑞隆\n農業部除了既有的公糧裝應該要花更大的力氣在於好米的部分的怎麼樣讓他種出更多好米鼓勵更多好米的產生而不是反倒是逆向的循環對這是我們在推動一級二轉生產的一個政策第一個就是讓農民引導他種植品質然後第二個部分就是後面的外銷的部分我們也會做一些品牌的行銷的宣導跟他們的支持這個也請\n我跟委員報告齁上個月我到日本的時候就跟貿易商就跟一些那邊的\n賴瑞生\n品牌拉得更好 品質拉得更好 我們就有機會我們在衝的是質而不是在衝量我覺得這個是比較有意義的那再來是雜糧的部分其實也是很重要的嘛我們也希望未來這塊雜糧的部分部裡面也持續在加強來推動啦\n會,我想我們在二轉的部分其實就是有一些不中到的獎勵就希望他們不中到然後轉到雜糧那提高雜糧以後我們的自給率就會提升對我們糧食安全也會有確保這個我想我們會繼續來對,就是雜糧我們現在的是需求大於供給的啦是在這種狀況下的時候其實引導如果農民往這個方向的話其實他的收益會來得更好是而不是去中的到然後用供糧這個部分反倒不見得是最好的選擇是所以我希望\n農業部持續的溝通啊,持續的能夠...對,我們會在這裡溝通好,那再來我要講其實要把握一點時間齁,前陣漁港其實很重要的一個建設啦齁,那但是我看了一下整個這個進度齁,多功能水產品的運銷中心的整個進度落後了41點多部長為什麼落後這麼多\n我想這個部分國度組在執行的話我想我們也會要求國度組在這個部分能夠把過去落後的進度能夠趕上因為這個部分是大家所期待的那相對的我們有一些部分包括漁港的那個深度碼頭的部分都在做了現在最重要的就是一個運銷的加工這個中心這個中心完了以後就能夠串接整個部分其他的進度大致上有的營館層有的這一個落後的最多啦那我希望\n委員會主席\n部長這個可能要請還是要持續的邀請我講過很多次這個若你邀請到的是夠大的\n謝謝委員提醒喔 我也認為就是說一個一個一個營運經營主體一定選擇非常重要\n選擇得對的話,後續就會非常順利,如果說選擇不對的時候,可能造成後續不好的一個面向發展,這個部分我想特別要努力。因為你選擇好的,光他自己可能就很在乎他的品牌了啦,他不會輕易砸掉自己的招牌嘛,所以他也會很認真,但是他進來他一定會經過很多的評估,包括他的投資能不能達到他的效益,所以我也希望,我知道年限有做了一些放寬,我也希望這是一個長遠的計畫,\n牆上加牆啊我希望一個好的地點好的建築之後找到好的企業廠商來一起來合作那你希望把這個前鎮醫館齁國內最大的營養醫館把它效益擴展到最大好了解謝謝委員的提醒我們期待看到他確實有未來的主地市場豐洲市場那樣的一個樣貌能夠吸引更多國內外的到那邊去做採購好不好是好謝謝部長好辛苦\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.468 --> 00:08.549\n政策的成敗的責任最後會由行政機關負起還是由立法機關來負起責任?\n\n00:26.192 --> 00:52.754\n我想政策的推動,一定是由行政單位來負最後的一個責任。所以這件事情最後的成敗以後,立法機關當然給很多的建議,但是最後萬一這個政策是有問題,其實都是由行政機關負責。是,是行政機關來負責,對。所以我覺得這個東西的權責其實要分得清楚。雖然立法機關會有很多的反應、民意反應的一些意見,但是最後都會回到行政機關身上,那行政機關就最後由你們整體的考量,因為國家的資源有限下,\n\n00:53.635 --> 00:53.955\n賴瑞隆\n\n01:24.239 --> 01:43.355\n整個即使你全部聽了立法院的建議最後如果萬一這個政策是失敗的其實負起責任的其實是部長不會是立法委員所以我覺得這件事情還是要回歸聖誕堂我自己也當過局長我很清楚這個分際是很清楚那這個農這個稻米的部分其實大家在努力以很多的策略上不同\n\n01:44.847 --> 01:56.679\n提高公糧當然是一種選擇的方式但是我看到部長其實比較認可跟支持採用一級二轉3加3的稻米產業方案這個裡面的部長簡單的幾句話來講一下兩者之間的優缺好不好\n\n02:00.743 --> 02:18.993\n我想我們分三個面向來講其實第一個部分就是當農業部在推動一個政策的時候對一個產業來講我們希望說政策的推動對所有的這個產業的人農民都能夠受益都能夠受益到同時受益到而不是針對特定的族群這是我們在思考的這一點點\n\n02:20.073 --> 02:40.434\n公糧的部分就是特定的少數,對,然後第二個部分就是從經費的角度我們希望說用一個最少的經費能夠發揮最大的一個效益而這個政策不會跟其他的政策有互相干渴的部分也就是說發錢不見的是最好的方式\n\n02:41.135 --> 02:43.078\n第三個部分也是最重要就是說\n\n02:51.482 --> 03:12.239\n我們在考慮的就是當我用政府的資源投入在一些某一個產業的特定的族群的時候對其他的產業會相對的會受到一些經費的一個排擠那特別是我們現在推動了很多包括對地綠色幾乎很多都是希望能夠降低造作面積已經推動了很多而且逐步有些成效\n\n03:12.699 --> 03:40.635\n如果現在公糧在提高的時候會把過去的這些努力全部化為烏有那又重新來過所以部裡面的考量其實希望對於整體的稻農甚至整體的農業的產業是整體有效益的在投入資源下是正面的效益的對好那我順著接下來請問其實台灣有些米也還不錯啦就是這個反倒是未來我認為像有些就不一定會繳交公糧有些地方的米不知道阿爸舉一下哪些地方你沒有繳交公糧的\n\n03:42.281 --> 03:43.262\n我的意思說其實應該更鼓勵更多用這樣的方式\n\n04:07.119 --> 04:07.259\n賴瑞隆\n\n04:29.594 --> 04:52.565\n農業部除了既有的公糧裝應該要花更大的力氣在於好米的部分的怎麼樣讓他種出更多好米鼓勵更多好米的產生而不是反倒是逆向的循環對這是我們在推動一級二轉生產的一個政策第一個就是讓農民引導他種植品質然後第二個部分就是後面的外銷的部分我們也會做一些品牌的行銷的宣導跟他們的支持這個也請\n\n04:53.866 --> 04:56.708\n我跟委員報告齁上個月我到日本的時候就跟貿易商就跟一些那邊的\n\n05:16.664 --> 05:16.804\n賴瑞生\n\n05:37.307 --> 05:52.581\n品牌拉得更好品質拉得更好我們就有機會我們在衝的是質而不是在衝量我覺得這個是比較有意義的那再來是雜糧的部分其實也是很重要的嘛我們也希望未來這塊雜糧的部分部裡面也持續在加強來推動啦\n\n05:53.321 --> 06:21.901\n會,我想我們在二轉的部分其實就是有一些不中到的獎勵就希望他們不中到然後轉到雜糧那提高雜糧以後我們的自給率就會提升對我們糧食安全也會有確保這個我想我們會繼續來對,就是雜糧我們現在的是需求大於供給的啦是在這種狀況下的時候其實引導如果農民往這個方向的話其實他的收益會來得更好是而不是去中的到然後用供糧這個部分反倒不見得是最好的選擇是所以我希望\n\n06:23.121 --> 06:39.547\n農業部持續的溝通啊,持續的能夠...對,我們會在這裡溝通好,那再來我要講其實要把握一點時間齁,前陣漁港其實很重要的一個建設啦齁,那但是我看了一下整個這個進度齁,多功能水產品的運銷中心的整個進度落後了41點多部長為什麼落後這麼多\n\n06:43.427 --> 07:11.005\n我想這個部分國度組在執行的話我想我們也會要求國度組在這個部分能夠把過去落後的進度能夠趕上因為這個部分是大家所期待的那相對的我們有一些部分包括漁港的那個深度碼頭的部分都在做了現在最重要的就是一個運銷的加工這個中心這個中心完了以後就能夠串接整個部分其他的進度大致上有的營館層有的這一個落後的最多啦那我希望\n\n07:11.705 --> 07:11.986\n委員會主席\n\n07:29.783 --> 07:33.127\n部長這個可能要請還是要持續的邀請我講過很多次這個若你邀請到的是夠大的\n\n07:53.187 --> 07:54.107\n謝謝委員提醒喔我也認為就是說一個一個一個營運經營主體一定選擇非常重要\n\n08:12.934 --> 08:35.304\n選擇得對的話,後續就會非常順利,如果說選擇不對的時候,可能造成後續不好的一個面向發展,這個部分我想特別要努力。因為你選擇好的,光他自己可能就很在乎他的品牌了啦,他不會輕易砸掉自己的招牌嘛,所以他也會很認真,但是他進來他一定會經過很多的評估,包括他的投資能不能達到他的效益,所以我也希望,我知道年限有做了一些放寬,我也希望這是一個長遠的計畫,\n\n08:36.925 --> 08:58.076\n牆上加牆啊我希望一個好的地點好的建築之後找到好的企業廠商來一起來合作那你希望把這個前鎮醫館齁國內最大的營養醫館把它效益擴展到最大好了解謝謝委員的提醒我們期待看到他確實有未來的主地市場豐洲市場那樣的一個樣貌能夠吸引更多國內外的到那邊去做採購好不好是好謝謝部長好辛苦\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.468,"end":8.549,"text":"政策的成敗的責任最後會由行政機關負起還是由立法機關來負起責任?"},{"start":26.192,"end":52.754,"text":"我想政策的推動,一定是由行政單位來負最後的一個責任。所以這件事情最後的成敗以後,立法機關當然給很多的建議,但是最後萬一這個政策是有問題,其實都是由行政機關負責。是,是行政機關來負責,對。所以我覺得這個東西的權責其實要分得清楚。雖然立法機關會有很多的反應、民意反應的一些意見,但是最後都會回到行政機關身上,那行政機關就最後由你們整體的考量,因為國家的資源有限下,"},{"start":53.635,"end":53.955,"text":"賴瑞隆"},{"start":84.239,"end":103.355,"text":"整個即使你全部聽了立法院的建議最後如果萬一這個政策是失敗的其實負起責任的其實是部長不會是立法委員所以我覺得這件事情還是要回歸聖誕堂我自己也當過局長我很清楚這個分際是很清楚那這個農這個稻米的部分其實大家在努力以很多的策略上不同"},{"start":104.847,"end":116.679,"text":"提高公糧當然是一種選擇的方式但是我看到部長其實比較認可跟支持採用一級二轉3加3的稻米產業方案這個裡面的部長簡單的幾句話來講一下兩者之間的優缺好不好"},{"start":120.743,"end":138.993,"text":"我想我們分三個面向來講其實第一個部分就是當農業部在推動一個政策的時候對一個產業來講我們希望說政策的推動對所有的這個產業的人農民都能夠受益都能夠受益到同時受益到而不是針對特定的族群這是我們在思考的這一點點"},{"start":140.073,"end":160.434,"text":"公糧的部分就是特定的少數,對,然後第二個部分就是從經費的角度我們希望說用一個最少的經費能夠發揮最大的一個效益而這個政策不會跟其他的政策有互相干渴的部分也就是說發錢不見的是最好的方式"},{"start":161.135,"end":163.078,"text":"第三個部分也是最重要就是說"},{"start":171.482,"end":192.239,"text":"我們在考慮的就是當我用政府的資源投入在一些某一個產業的特定的族群的時候對其他的產業會相對的會受到一些經費的一個排擠那特別是我們現在推動了很多包括對地綠色幾乎很多都是希望能夠降低造作面積已經推動了很多而且逐步有些成效"},{"start":192.699,"end":220.635,"text":"如果現在公糧在提高的時候會把過去的這些努力全部化為烏有那又重新來過所以部裡面的考量其實希望對於整體的稻農甚至整體的農業的產業是整體有效益的在投入資源下是正面的效益的對好那我順著接下來請問其實台灣有些米也還不錯啦就是這個反倒是未來我認為像有些就不一定會繳交公糧有些地方的米不知道阿爸舉一下哪些地方你沒有繳交公糧的"},{"start":222.281,"end":223.262,"text":"我的意思說其實應該更鼓勵更多用這樣的方式"},{"start":247.119,"end":247.259,"text":"賴瑞隆"},{"start":269.594,"end":292.565,"text":"農業部除了既有的公糧裝應該要花更大的力氣在於好米的部分的怎麼樣讓他種出更多好米鼓勵更多好米的產生而不是反倒是逆向的循環對這是我們在推動一級二轉生產的一個政策第一個就是讓農民引導他種植品質然後第二個部分就是後面的外銷的部分我們也會做一些品牌的行銷的宣導跟他們的支持這個也請"},{"start":293.866,"end":296.708,"text":"我跟委員報告齁上個月我到日本的時候就跟貿易商就跟一些那邊的"},{"start":316.664,"end":316.804,"text":"賴瑞生"},{"start":337.307,"end":352.581,"text":"品牌拉得更好 品質拉得更好 我們就有機會我們在衝的是質而不是在衝量我覺得這個是比較有意義的那再來是雜糧的部分其實也是很重要的嘛我們也希望未來這塊雜糧的部分部裡面也持續在加強來推動啦"},{"start":353.321,"end":381.901,"text":"會,我想我們在二轉的部分其實就是有一些不中到的獎勵就希望他們不中到然後轉到雜糧那提高雜糧以後我們的自給率就會提升對我們糧食安全也會有確保這個我想我們會繼續來對,就是雜糧我們現在的是需求大於供給的啦是在這種狀況下的時候其實引導如果農民往這個方向的話其實他的收益會來得更好是而不是去中的到然後用供糧這個部分反倒不見得是最好的選擇是所以我希望"},{"start":383.121,"end":399.547,"text":"農業部持續的溝通啊,持續的能夠...對,我們會在這裡溝通好,那再來我要講其實要把握一點時間齁,前陣漁港其實很重要的一個建設啦齁,那但是我看了一下整個這個進度齁,多功能水產品的運銷中心的整個進度落後了41點多部長為什麼落後這麼多"},{"start":403.427,"end":431.005,"text":"我想這個部分國度組在執行的話我想我們也會要求國度組在這個部分能夠把過去落後的進度能夠趕上因為這個部分是大家所期待的那相對的我們有一些部分包括漁港的那個深度碼頭的部分都在做了現在最重要的就是一個運銷的加工這個中心這個中心完了以後就能夠串接整個部分其他的進度大致上有的營館層有的這一個落後的最多啦那我希望"},{"start":431.705,"end":431.986,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":449.783,"end":453.127,"text":"部長這個可能要請還是要持續的邀請我講過很多次這個若你邀請到的是夠大的"},{"start":473.187,"end":474.107,"text":"謝謝委員提醒喔 我也認為就是說一個一個一個營運經營主體一定選擇非常重要"},{"start":492.934,"end":515.304,"text":"選擇得對的話,後續就會非常順利,如果說選擇不對的時候,可能造成後續不好的一個面向發展,這個部分我想特別要努力。因為你選擇好的,光他自己可能就很在乎他的品牌了啦,他不會輕易砸掉自己的招牌嘛,所以他也會很認真,但是他進來他一定會經過很多的評估,包括他的投資能不能達到他的效益,所以我也希望,我知道年限有做了一些放寬,我也希望這是一個長遠的計畫,"},{"start":516.925,"end":538.076,"text":"牆上加牆啊我希望一個好的地點好的建築之後找到好的企業廠商來一起來合作那你希望把這個前鎮醫館齁國內最大的營養醫館把它效益擴展到最大好了解謝謝委員的提醒我們期待看到他確實有未來的主地市場豐洲市場那樣的一個樣貌能夠吸引更多國內外的到那邊去做採購好不好是好謝謝部長好辛苦"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":491,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（10時41分）好，謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["賴委員瑞隆：部長辛苦了。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我先請教一個問題，一個政策成敗的責任最後會由行政機關還是由立法機關來負起責任？"],["陳部長駿季：政策的推動一定是由行政單位來負最後的責任……"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這件事情最後的成敗與否，立法機關那邊給了很多的建議……"],["陳部長駿季：對，成敗一定是……"],["賴委員瑞隆：但是最後萬一這個政策有問題，其實都是由行政機關來負責。"],["陳部長駿季：是，行政機關來負責。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以我覺得這東西的權責其實要分得清楚啦。當然，立法機關會有很多民意反映的一些意見，但是最後都會回到行政機關身上，那行政機關最後有你們整體的考量，因為國家的資源有限下，它勢必要做很多優先順序的一些排列，怎樣照顧到最多人，立法者或民意代表往往會有各自的一些考量，但是如果完全都順著這個走的時候，有時候會有些偏頗，不見得是對於整個國家或整體都是最有利的。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以我想感受得到啦！部長當然承受到相當多的壓力，不過我還是建議就是要照著行政機關該有的程序來走，因為即使你全部聽了立法院的建議，最後如果萬一這個政策是失敗的，負起責任的其實是部長，不會是立法委員，所以我覺得這件事情還是要回歸這樣來談。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我自己也當過局長，我很清楚這個分際。有關稻米的部分其實大家在努力，很多的策略上的不同，提高公糧價格當然是一種選擇的方式，但是我看到部長其實比較認可跟支持採用「1集、2轉、3加3」的稻米產業方案，部長，要不要簡單幾句話來講一下兩者之間的優缺，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是，我們分三個面向來講，第一個部分就是當農業部在推動一個政策的時候，對一個產業來講，我們希望政策的推動對所有這個產業的人、農民都能夠同時受益到，而不是針對特定的族群，這是我們在思考的第一點。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以公糧的部分是占少數。"],["陳部長駿季：公糧的部分就是特定的少數。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對整個產業不見得是最好的選擇。"],["陳部長駿季：對，第二個部分就是從經費的角度，我們希望用最少的經費能夠發揮最大的效益，而這個政策不會跟其他的政策有互相扞格的部分。"],["賴委員瑞隆：也就是說，發錢不見得是最好的方式。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：去運用這些錢，讓它能夠提升更好的產值、提升更好的效益，反倒會有更好的效果。"],["陳部長駿季：對，然後第三個部分也是最重要，就是說我們在考慮的，當我用政府的資源投入在某一個產業特定的族群的時候，其他的產業相對的會受到一些經費的排擠，特別是我們現在推動很多包括對地綠色給付，都是希望能夠降低稻作面積，已經推動了很多而且逐步有些成效，如果現在公糧再提高，會把過去的這些努力全部化為烏有，那又重新來過。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以部裡面的考量，其實希望對於整體的稻農，甚至農業的產業是整體有效益的，在投入資源下是有正面的效益。"],["陳部長駿季：是、對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：好，我順著接下來請問，其實臺灣有些米也還不錯啦，反倒未來我認為有些地方的米就不一定會繳交公糧，部長要不要舉一下，哪些地方的米沒有繳交公糧的？"],["陳部長駿季：不繳交公糧的像高雄的部分是147號米，那個米因為用集團產區的方式，後端拉品牌，相對的，它的契作價格也比現在的公糧價格還高，其實它就是一種典範，因為透過集團栽培的經營主體去跟農民做契作的時候，農民的收益有保障。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我的意思是，其實應該鼓勵更多用這樣的方式，產生更多的好米，我們看到現在日本反倒是缺米的。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：也就是說，其實我們應該是努力讓臺灣產出更多好米，然後用更好的價格賣往國內及國外出去，這才是一個最好的方式，走入公糧的部分其實是最不得已的一個方式，如果持續走那樣的方式，反倒會影響到原來既有的這些好米，我認為農業部除了既有的公糧之外，應該要花更大的力氣在於好米的部分，怎麼樣讓他種出更多好米，鼓勵更多好米的產生，而不是反倒走逆向的循環。"],["陳部長駿季：對，這就是我們在推動「1集、2轉、3加3」政策，第一個是引導農民重視品質，第二個部分，即後面外銷的部分，我們也會做一些品牌行銷宣導提供他們支持。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這個也請部裡面把規劃再送給我們，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好，這個部分……"],["賴委員瑞隆：一個月內，包括你們接下來未來一年、三年的規劃方向，我認為這個其實都滿重要的啦！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：特別是看到日本現在稻米的狀況有點供應量不太夠的時候，反倒是我們的稻米如果能夠有更好的稻米，其實有機會走向更多的市場。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，上個月我到日本的時候，就跟那邊的一些貿易商和通路已經談過了，他們大概明年1月會來，當然有很多農產品其中一個品項就是米的部分，我們想趁這個機會把我們優質的米能夠有機會銷到日本去。"],["賴委員瑞隆：因為以前日本米除了國內，甚至還銷到國外去，現在在它量不夠的狀況下，這個都是臺灣米的機會。"],["陳部長駿季：對，是我們的一個機會。"],["賴委員瑞隆：如果我們把品牌拉得更好、品質拉得更好，我們就有機會，我們在衝的是值而不是在衝量，我覺得這個是比較有意義的。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：再來，雜糧的部分其實也是很重要的，我們也希望未來這塊雜糧的部分，部裡面也持續加強來推動。"],["陳部長駿季：會，我們在2轉的部分其實就有一些不種稻的獎勵，就是希望他們不種稻轉到雜糧，提高雜糧以後，我們的自給率就會提升，對我們糧食安全也會有確保，這個我想我們會繼續來努力。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，就是雜糧，我們現在是需求大於供給。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：在這樣狀況下，如果引導農民往這個方向，其實他的收益會來得更好，而不是去種了稻然後用公糧，這個部分反倒不見得是最好的選擇，所以我希望農業部持續的溝通、持續的……"],["陳部長駿季：會，我們會再溝通。"],["賴委員瑞隆：好，再來我想把握一點時間請教，前鎮漁港其實是很重要的一個建設，但是我看了一下整個多功能水產品運銷中心的進度落後了四十一點多%，部長，為什麼落後這麼多？"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分是國土署在執行，我們也會要求國土署在這個部分把過去落後的進度能夠趕上，因為這是大家所期待的，相對的，我們有一些部分，包括漁港深度碼頭的部分……"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，那個都在進行當中。"],["陳部長駿季：對，都在做了，現在最重要就是一個運銷的加工中心，這個中心完了以後就能夠串接整個部分。"],["賴委員瑞隆：其他的進度大致上有的已經完成，有的還沒，就這一個落後的最多啦！"],["陳部長駿季：是、對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我也希望，還是趕在明年、預定明年上半年要完成……"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會再加強跟他們做相關的協調。"],["賴委員瑞隆：請部長再持續盯著啦！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：再來，我請教一下，接下來的營運跟招商的部分，現在有沒有找到潛在的、未來可能進來的廠商？"],["陳部長駿季：我可不可以請漁業署？"],["賴委員瑞隆：請署長。"],["王代理署長正芳：跟委員報告，我們已經擬好一個招商文件，跟財政部溝通過，也看過了，這個禮拜我們會在臺北跟高雄辦理招商說明會，也要積極邀請潛在廠商來參與。"],["賴委員瑞隆：部長，這個可能還是要持續的邀請，我講過很多次，如果你邀請到的是夠大的廠商進駐的話，其實相對是輕鬆的，如果你找到的是一個小的，它有可能隨時會有狀況，所以我希望讓國內大而有能力的廠商能夠有意願來來參與這樣的一個計畫。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員提醒，我也認為一個營運經營主體的選擇非常重要，選擇對的話，後續就會非常順利，如果選擇不對的時候，可能造成後續往不好的面向發展，這個部分，我們會特別來努力。"],["賴委員瑞隆：因為你選擇好的，光它自己可能就很在乎它的品牌了啦，不會輕易砸掉自己的招牌，所以它也會很認真，但是它要進來一定會經過很多的評估，包括它的投資能不能達到效益，所以我知道你已經有做了一些放寬，我也希望這是個長遠的計畫，強上加強，我希望一個好的地點、好的建築，之後也找到好的企業、廠商一起來合作，也希望把這個前鎮漁港─國內最大的遠洋漁港，把它的效益擴展到最大。"],["陳部長駿季：好，了解，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我們期待看到他未來確實有築地市場、豐洲市場那樣的樣貌，能夠吸引更多國內外的遊客到那邊去做採購。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝部長，部長辛苦了。"],["主席：休息5分鐘。","休息（10時50分）","繼續開會（10時56分）"],["主席：好，繼續開會，現在請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-6","speakers":["呂玉玲","張嘉郡","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","洪申翰","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳冠廷","李坤城","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","羅智強","賴士葆","涂權吉","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","麥玉珍","徐富癸","黃建賓","許宇甄","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":107,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長就「農業部對於立法院決議提高公糧收購價格之評估與執行方案」進行報告，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1138501_00002"}}}