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\"廷\", \"start\": 707.612, \"end\": 707.632, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"﹚\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"冠\", \"start\": 707.632, \"end\": 707.672, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"廷\", \"start\": 707.672, \"end\": 707.692, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,370 --> 00:00:27,461\n您好,我們請部長來,部長請是,政委好部長好部長,請問這一次的黃台軍演你認為跟幾次先前的這種大型的軍演有什麼不同是他們主要的意圖是在封鎖、在拒組、在外島奪取、在登陸作戰還是在網路攻擊、測試反應還是以上皆是\n\n2\n00:00:28,649 --> 00:00:42,262\n我想他的本來過去相關的一些包括聯合戰備軍型本來就有一些您剛提到類似的操演的科目那現在這一次當然是首次以這個艦載機這個就遼寧號的艦載機進入我們的東部空域\n\n3\n00:00:46,866 --> 00:00:47,928\n海警執法巡邏區域聯合力艦2024A\n\n4\n00:01:02,290 --> 00:01:02,510\n陳冠廷\n\n5\n00:01:18,626 --> 00:01:19,427\n這幾點大概應該是可以觀察出來\n\n6\n00:01:35,575 --> 00:01:57,449\n那部長你覺得在這幾次軍演從2022年之後然後到聯合歷屆AB之後你覺得他的這個能力我們不講意圖就在講他們經過多次的這種環島的演訓之後他們能力有沒有提高整體的協調的能力還有跨軍種協調的能力你覺得透過這樣的演練中共的這些軍演之後他的能力有沒有提高\n\n7\n00:01:58,300 --> 00:02:17,605\n超演跟委員報告這個聯合行動的這個能力的這個評估我們認為中國還是有很多要改進的因為超演是一回事真正實戰到時候只管通信是一回事因為超演是一種他\n\n8\n00:02:19,445 --> 00:02:22,727\n部長你覺得他們這些演練在對於國民來講他是不是想要創造我們民眾感受到不安這個部分你覺得他們有沒有這個意圖\n\n9\n00:02:43,191 --> 00:03:00,038\n您是說對台灣嗎?對台灣當然是有施壓的這種味道因為這樣的軍事恫嚇跟這個灰色地帶的洗澡我想這已經是他們現在一貫都常常在做的一件事情但是你覺得民眾有感受到不安嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:01,601 --> 00:03:28,538\n民眾我覺得從光部立場民眾應該要警惕這樣的敵情嚴峻我認為中共在平板的多次環台軍演甚至是夜間操練他希望把這個軍演常態化之後反而不是要讓我們民眾感到不安他的目的可能是讓我們民眾感到麻木讓我們民眾習慣這樣的演練認為說這樣的演練不會對我們的生活造成影響\n\n11\n00:03:29,238 --> 00:03:58,126\n那我們的股市還是繼續漲我們的經濟還是繼續在維持蓬勃的發展我認為這都是好事我也認為我們國家的這個應對是非常的妥適的但是我認為民眾應對這樣子的必須要有風險意識所以等一下我也會請教這個針對這個民眾的部分是不是已經習慣中國的威脅而生活照常如果是這樣是民眾的意識風險意識不夠的話有什麼是國防部未來可以需要來去協助的\n\n12\n00:03:58,826 --> 00:04:26,982\n我們要如何做好這樣的民防訓練當我們沒有這樣的意識我們就沒有這樣子的動作委員好我是秦司事次長那針對剛剛委員所提問的問題我們在前幾位委員的回答群裡面也回答到這個是一個我們把它歸類成一個複合式的灰色地帶的操作那這裡面有幾個重點包含了我們所講的欺騙\n\n13\n00:04:28,323 --> 00:04:51,872\n當然我們所講的欺騙裡面他用的手段裡面包含剛剛委員所提醒到的降低一般民眾百姓對這樣子環台軍援會影響到一般老百姓他們生活的這樣子的壓迫感但其實灰色地帶裡面其中有一個特性就是溫水煮青蛙他希望民眾來習慣這樣子的好像只是針對國軍的這個部分\n\n14\n00:04:54,414 --> 00:04:54,554\n：陳冠廷\n\n15\n00:05:11,255 --> 00:05:31,863\n我必須強調我們比方我們講以色列好了他們不是不知道風險他們不會把戰爭去敏感化所以在每一個作用力的時候就是當每次在這個敵對勢力發動攻擊的時候或者是洋裝發動攻擊的時候他們都會有相應的動作所以不是坐在這邊說我們不會發生任何事情反正他們也不敢\n\n16\n00:05:32,563 --> 00:05:32,683\n陳冠廷\n\n17\n00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:54,740\n﹚陳冠廷﹚\n\n18\n00:06:19,153 --> 00:06:42,905\n並不是來自民間的NGO等等來自於官方的國家的這樣才有公信力所以說依照用戶的位置還可以提出個人的警報傳達官方正式的訊息這是說避免戰爭時期或者是衝突時期的錯假亂訊息我認為這是非常重要現在他們還可以直接應用到他們的電視上面所以等於是跨世代不是只有年輕的朋友們\n\n19\n00:06:43,365 --> 00:06:43,525\n﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷\n\n20\n00:07:12,413 --> 00:07:28,523\n傳訊息我們辦公室有請國防部來回應一下隔離跟封鎖之間的不同還有國軍的應對跟作為但是這個國軍我們國防部是回應我們針對封鎖的部分我想請教一下針對隔離的說明是不是可以簡單來跟我們分享一下\n\n21\n00:07:31,260 --> 00:08:00,699\n委員好有關於隔離跟封鎖這兩個不同的態樣或者是有什麼相似之處這個部分我們在國防部裡面包括我們法律司跟我們情事室整個國防部針對這兩個特別的應該講說是他們在操作上面會有什麼樣的現象那我們國防部要怎麼樣的應處針對這個部分其實我們已經在已經進行了一段時間那就法律上面的界定是不是\n\n22\n00:08:03,061 --> 00:08:25,723\n委員好我是法律司司長封鎖原則上它是國家對國家隔離是從國際法上後面再發展出來的一個等於是概念式的用語那在實際上面它是會有一些區別而且執行封鎖跟執行隔離它執行的人也會有一點不一樣那細部的話我們看是不是在跟委員做一個\n\n23\n00:08:26,803 --> 00:08:43,475\n上次是有給我們針對封鎖的解釋就是透過軍事手段來圍困對手跟他的運輸補給但是在於隔離的部分這個部分可能就是灰色地帶我看CSS在6月的時候有出相關的討論他是說在透過海上交通的執勤執法\n\n24\n00:08:44,235 --> 00:08:45,256\n我只是補充就是說因為隔離跟封鎖我想封鎖是一個\n\n25\n00:09:11,946 --> 00:09:32,154\n國家對國家之間的一個概念如果他真正的實施這個所謂的封鎖的話那以現在這一次來講的話那他就要宣布進航區那相關的這些船艦或者是載空機要經過的話都都都要經過他的許可像這樣子的一個全面性的封鎖是形同宣告這個戰爭\n\n26\n00:09:34,395 --> 00:09:59,959\n那這樣子的一個舉動那這個就會進入到一個不只是影響台灣甚至影響到整個國際那隔離的這個部分他就會進行一個比較有限度的一個一個一個一個措施那比如說他是用執法的一個作為然後來用海警船的這個作為來進行相關的一些有限度的一些居宿然後或者是登檢的這樣子的一個作為\n\n27\n00:10:00,579 --> 00:10:23,462\n謝謝部長,再麻煩國防部可以給我們相關的我們的反制的做法那最後再問一題,謝謝趙偉那就是我們已經接到很多不管是各國的智庫或者是甚至各國的政要都提到說希望我們提升國防預算來展現防衛決心但是我想請教就是我們提升國防預算重點不是提升而已而是要構置什麼,要防禦什麼,要有什麼樣的能力,要維持什麼樣的能力\n\n28\n00:10:23,982 --> 00:10:52,184\n那這一次的中東局勢我們來看到說這個伊朗以色列還有這些他的這些那他不斷的在對以色列直接發動攻襲這次好像說最近一次是發動130枚飛彈那去瞄準三個軍事基地但是大部分的這個飛彈都被攔截起來那還有公民的冷靜還有遵循安全的指引包含我們剛剛提到的這些應用的方式沒有什麼樣死亡的案例我想請教這個部長現在我們的防空的系統有沒有辦法\n\n29\n00:10:53,144 --> 00:10:55,005\n國防部長\n\n30\n00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:12,770\n國防部長顧立雄報告\n\n31\n00:11:28,704 --> 00:11:28,804\n李卓人議員\n\n32\n00:11:47,532 --> 00:11:47,692\n﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n370\t27461\t您好,我們請部長來,部長請是,政委好部長好部長,請問這一次的黃台軍演你認為跟幾次先前的這種大型的軍演有什麼不同是他們主要的意圖是在封鎖、在拒組、在外島奪取、在登陸作戰還是在網路攻擊、測試反應還是以上皆是\n28649\t42262\t我想他的本來過去相關的一些包括聯合戰備軍型本來就有一些您剛提到類似的操演的科目那現在這一次當然是首次以這個艦載機這個就遼寧號的艦載機進入我們的東部空域\n46866\t47928\t海警執法巡邏區域聯合力艦2024A\n62290\t62510\t陳冠廷\n78626\t79427\t這幾點大概應該是可以觀察出來\n95575\t117449\t那部長你覺得在這幾次軍演從2022年之後然後到聯合歷屆AB之後你覺得他的這個能力我們不講意圖就在講他們經過多次的這種環島的演訓之後他們能力有沒有提高整體的協調的能力還有跨軍種協調的能力你覺得透過這樣的演練中共的這些軍演之後他的能力有沒有提高\n118300\t137605\t超演跟委員報告這個聯合行動的這個能力的這個評估我們認為中國還是有很多要改進的因為超演是一回事真正實戰到時候只管通信是一回事因為超演是一種他\n139445\t142727\t部長你覺得他們這些演練在對於國民來講他是不是想要創造我們民眾感受到不安這個部分你覺得他們有沒有這個意圖\n163191\t180038\t您是說對台灣嗎?對台灣當然是有施壓的這種味道因為這樣的軍事恫嚇跟這個灰色地帶的洗澡我想這已經是他們現在一貫都常常在做的一件事情但是你覺得民眾有感受到不安嗎?\n181601\t208538\t民眾我覺得從光部立場民眾應該要警惕這樣的敵情嚴峻我認為中共在平板的多次環台軍演甚至是夜間操練他希望把這個軍演常態化之後反而不是要讓我們民眾感到不安他的目的可能是讓我們民眾感到麻木讓我們民眾習慣這樣的演練認為說這樣的演練不會對我們的生活造成影響\n209238\t238126\t那我們的股市還是繼續漲我們的經濟還是繼續在維持蓬勃的發展我認為這都是好事我也認為我們國家的這個應對是非常的妥適的但是我認為民眾應對這樣子的必須要有風險意識所以等一下我也會請教這個針對這個民眾的部分是不是已經習慣中國的威脅而生活照常如果是這樣是民眾的意識風險意識不夠的話有什麼是國防部未來可以需要來去協助的\n238826\t266982\t我們要如何做好這樣的民防訓練當我們沒有這樣的意識我們就沒有這樣子的動作委員好我是秦司事次長那針對剛剛委員所提問的問題我們在前幾位委員的回答群裡面也回答到這個是一個我們把它歸類成一個複合式的灰色地帶的操作那這裡面有幾個重點包含了我們所講的欺騙\n268323\t291872\t當然我們所講的欺騙裡面他用的手段裡面包含剛剛委員所提醒到的降低一般民眾百姓對這樣子環台軍援會影響到一般老百姓他們生活的這樣子的壓迫感但其實灰色地帶裡面其中有一個特性就是溫水煮青蛙他希望民眾來習慣這樣子的好像只是針對國軍的這個部分\n294414\t294554\t：陳冠廷\n311255\t331863\t我必須強調我們比方我們講以色列好了他們不是不知道風險他們不會把戰爭去敏感化所以在每一個作用力的時候就是當每次在這個敵對勢力發動攻擊的時候或者是洋裝發動攻擊的時候他們都會有相應的動作所以不是坐在這邊說我們不會發生任何事情反正他們也不敢\n332563\t332683\t陳冠廷\n354600\t354740\t﹚陳冠廷﹚\n379153\t402905\t並不是來自民間的NGO等等來自於官方的國家的這樣才有公信力所以說依照用戶的位置還可以提出個人的警報傳達官方正式的訊息這是說避免戰爭時期或者是衝突時期的錯假亂訊息我認為這是非常重要現在他們還可以直接應用到他們的電視上面所以等於是跨世代不是只有年輕的朋友們\n403365\t403525\t﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷\n432413\t448523\t傳訊息我們辦公室有請國防部來回應一下隔離跟封鎖之間的不同還有國軍的應對跟作為但是這個國軍我們國防部是回應我們針對封鎖的部分我想請教一下針對隔離的說明是不是可以簡單來跟我們分享一下\n451260\t480699\t委員好有關於隔離跟封鎖這兩個不同的態樣或者是有什麼相似之處這個部分我們在國防部裡面包括我們法律司跟我們情事室整個國防部針對這兩個特別的應該講說是他們在操作上面會有什麼樣的現象那我們國防部要怎麼樣的應處針對這個部分其實我們已經在已經進行了一段時間那就法律上面的界定是不是\n483061\t505723\t委員好 我是法律司司長封鎖原則上它是國家對國家隔離是從國際法上後面再發展出來的一個等於是概念式的用語那在實際上面它是會有一些區別而且執行封鎖跟執行隔離它執行的人也會有一點不一樣那細部的話我們看是不是在跟委員做一個\n506803\t523475\t上次是有給我們針對封鎖的解釋就是透過軍事手段來圍困對手跟他的運輸補給但是在於隔離的部分這個部分可能就是灰色地帶我看CSS在6月的時候有出相關的討論他是說在透過海上交通的執勤執法\n524235\t525256\t我只是補充就是說因為隔離跟封鎖我想封鎖是一個\n551946\t572154\t國家對國家之間的一個概念如果他真正的實施這個所謂的封鎖的話那以現在這一次來講的話那他就要宣布進航區那相關的這些船艦或者是載空機要經過的話都都都要經過他的許可像這樣子的一個全面性的封鎖是形同宣告這個戰爭\n574395\t599959\t那這樣子的一個舉動那這個就會進入到一個不只是影響台灣甚至影響到整個國際那隔離的這個部分他就會進行一個比較有限度的一個一個一個一個措施那比如說他是用執法的一個作為然後來用海警船的這個作為來進行相關的一些有限度的一些居宿然後或者是登檢的這樣子的一個作為\n600579\t623462\t謝謝部長,再麻煩國防部可以給我們相關的我們的反制的做法那最後再問一題,謝謝趙偉那就是我們已經接到很多不管是各國的智庫或者是甚至各國的政要都提到說希望我們提升國防預算來展現防衛決心但是我想請教就是我們提升國防預算重點不是提升而已而是要構置什麼,要防禦什麼,要有什麼樣的能力,要維持什麼樣的能力\n623982\t652184\t那這一次的中東局勢我們來看到說這個伊朗以色列還有這些他的這些那他不斷的在對以色列直接發動攻襲這次好像說最近一次是發動130枚飛彈那去瞄準三個軍事基地但是大部分的這個飛彈都被攔截起來那還有公民的冷靜還有遵循安全的指引包含我們剛剛提到的這些應用的方式沒有什麼樣死亡的案例我想請教這個部長現在我們的防空的系統有沒有辦法\n653144\t655005\t國防部長\n672470\t672770\t國防部長顧立雄報告\n688704\t688804\t李卓人議員\n707532\t707692\t﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷\n","txt":"您好,我們請部長來,部長請是,政委好部長好部長,請問這一次的黃台軍演你認為跟幾次先前的這種大型的軍演有什麼不同是他們主要的意圖是在封鎖、在拒組、在外島奪取、在登陸作戰還是在網路攻擊、測試反應還是以上皆是\n我想他的本來過去相關的一些包括聯合戰備軍型本來就有一些您剛提到類似的操演的科目那現在這一次當然是首次以這個艦載機這個就遼寧號的艦載機進入我們的東部空域\n海警執法巡邏區域聯合力艦2024A\n陳冠廷\n這幾點大概應該是可以觀察出來\n那部長你覺得在這幾次軍演從2022年之後然後到聯合歷屆AB之後你覺得他的這個能力我們不講意圖就在講他們經過多次的這種環島的演訓之後他們能力有沒有提高整體的協調的能力還有跨軍種協調的能力你覺得透過這樣的演練中共的這些軍演之後他的能力有沒有提高\n超演跟委員報告這個聯合行動的這個能力的這個評估我們認為中國還是有很多要改進的因為超演是一回事真正實戰到時候只管通信是一回事因為超演是一種他\n部長你覺得他們這些演練在對於國民來講他是不是想要創造我們民眾感受到不安這個部分你覺得他們有沒有這個意圖\n您是說對台灣嗎?對台灣當然是有施壓的這種味道因為這樣的軍事恫嚇跟這個灰色地帶的洗澡我想這已經是他們現在一貫都常常在做的一件事情但是你覺得民眾有感受到不安嗎?\n民眾我覺得從光部立場民眾應該要警惕這樣的敵情嚴峻我認為中共在平板的多次環台軍演甚至是夜間操練他希望把這個軍演常態化之後反而不是要讓我們民眾感到不安他的目的可能是讓我們民眾感到麻木讓我們民眾習慣這樣的演練認為說這樣的演練不會對我們的生活造成影響\n那我們的股市還是繼續漲我們的經濟還是繼續在維持蓬勃的發展我認為這都是好事我也認為我們國家的這個應對是非常的妥適的但是我認為民眾應對這樣子的必須要有風險意識所以等一下我也會請教這個針對這個民眾的部分是不是已經習慣中國的威脅而生活照常如果是這樣是民眾的意識風險意識不夠的話有什麼是國防部未來可以需要來去協助的\n我們要如何做好這樣的民防訓練當我們沒有這樣的意識我們就沒有這樣子的動作委員好我是秦司事次長那針對剛剛委員所提問的問題我們在前幾位委員的回答群裡面也回答到這個是一個我們把它歸類成一個複合式的灰色地帶的操作那這裡面有幾個重點包含了我們所講的欺騙\n當然我們所講的欺騙裡面他用的手段裡面包含剛剛委員所提醒到的降低一般民眾百姓對這樣子環台軍援會影響到一般老百姓他們生活的這樣子的壓迫感但其實灰色地帶裡面其中有一個特性就是溫水煮青蛙他希望民眾來習慣這樣子的好像只是針對國軍的這個部分\n：陳冠廷\n我必須強調我們比方我們講以色列好了他們不是不知道風險他們不會把戰爭去敏感化所以在每一個作用力的時候就是當每次在這個敵對勢力發動攻擊的時候或者是洋裝發動攻擊的時候他們都會有相應的動作所以不是坐在這邊說我們不會發生任何事情反正他們也不敢\n陳冠廷\n﹚陳冠廷﹚\n並不是來自民間的NGO等等來自於官方的國家的這樣才有公信力所以說依照用戶的位置還可以提出個人的警報傳達官方正式的訊息這是說避免戰爭時期或者是衝突時期的錯假亂訊息我認為這是非常重要現在他們還可以直接應用到他們的電視上面所以等於是跨世代不是只有年輕的朋友們\n﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷\n傳訊息我們辦公室有請國防部來回應一下隔離跟封鎖之間的不同還有國軍的應對跟作為但是這個國軍我們國防部是回應我們針對封鎖的部分我想請教一下針對隔離的說明是不是可以簡單來跟我們分享一下\n委員好有關於隔離跟封鎖這兩個不同的態樣或者是有什麼相似之處這個部分我們在國防部裡面包括我們法律司跟我們情事室整個國防部針對這兩個特別的應該講說是他們在操作上面會有什麼樣的現象那我們國防部要怎麼樣的應處針對這個部分其實我們已經在已經進行了一段時間那就法律上面的界定是不是\n委員好 我是法律司司長封鎖原則上它是國家對國家隔離是從國際法上後面再發展出來的一個等於是概念式的用語那在實際上面它是會有一些區別而且執行封鎖跟執行隔離它執行的人也會有一點不一樣那細部的話我們看是不是在跟委員做一個\n上次是有給我們針對封鎖的解釋就是透過軍事手段來圍困對手跟他的運輸補給但是在於隔離的部分這個部分可能就是灰色地帶我看CSS在6月的時候有出相關的討論他是說在透過海上交通的執勤執法\n我只是補充就是說因為隔離跟封鎖我想封鎖是一個\n國家對國家之間的一個概念如果他真正的實施這個所謂的封鎖的話那以現在這一次來講的話那他就要宣布進航區那相關的這些船艦或者是載空機要經過的話都都都要經過他的許可像這樣子的一個全面性的封鎖是形同宣告這個戰爭\n那這樣子的一個舉動那這個就會進入到一個不只是影響台灣甚至影響到整個國際那隔離的這個部分他就會進行一個比較有限度的一個一個一個一個措施那比如說他是用執法的一個作為然後來用海警船的這個作為來進行相關的一些有限度的一些居宿然後或者是登檢的這樣子的一個作為\n謝謝部長,再麻煩國防部可以給我們相關的我們的反制的做法那最後再問一題,謝謝趙偉那就是我們已經接到很多不管是各國的智庫或者是甚至各國的政要都提到說希望我們提升國防預算來展現防衛決心但是我想請教就是我們提升國防預算重點不是提升而已而是要構置什麼,要防禦什麼,要有什麼樣的能力,要維持什麼樣的能力\n那這一次的中東局勢我們來看到說這個伊朗以色列還有這些他的這些那他不斷的在對以色列直接發動攻襲這次好像說最近一次是發動130枚飛彈那去瞄準三個軍事基地但是大部分的這個飛彈都被攔截起來那還有公民的冷靜還有遵循安全的指引包含我們剛剛提到的這些應用的方式沒有什麼樣死亡的案例我想請教這個部長現在我們的防空的系統有沒有辦法\n國防部長\n國防部長顧立雄報告\n李卓人議員\n﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.370 --> 00:27.461\n您好,我們請部長來,部長請是,政委好部長好部長,請問這一次的黃台軍演你認為跟幾次先前的這種大型的軍演有什麼不同是他們主要的意圖是在封鎖、在拒組、在外島奪取、在登陸作戰還是在網路攻擊、測試反應還是以上皆是\n\n00:28.649 --> 00:42.262\n我想他的本來過去相關的一些包括聯合戰備軍型本來就有一些您剛提到類似的操演的科目那現在這一次當然是首次以這個艦載機這個就遼寧號的艦載機進入我們的東部空域\n\n00:46.866 --> 00:47.928\n海警執法巡邏區域聯合力艦2024A\n\n01:02.290 --> 01:02.510\n陳冠廷\n\n01:18.626 --> 01:19.427\n這幾點大概應該是可以觀察出來\n\n01:35.575 --> 01:57.449\n那部長你覺得在這幾次軍演從2022年之後然後到聯合歷屆AB之後你覺得他的這個能力我們不講意圖就在講他們經過多次的這種環島的演訓之後他們能力有沒有提高整體的協調的能力還有跨軍種協調的能力你覺得透過這樣的演練中共的這些軍演之後他的能力有沒有提高\n\n01:58.300 --> 02:17.605\n超演跟委員報告這個聯合行動的這個能力的這個評估我們認為中國還是有很多要改進的因為超演是一回事真正實戰到時候只管通信是一回事因為超演是一種他\n\n02:19.445 --> 02:22.727\n部長你覺得他們這些演練在對於國民來講他是不是想要創造我們民眾感受到不安這個部分你覺得他們有沒有這個意圖\n\n02:43.191 --> 03:00.038\n您是說對台灣嗎?對台灣當然是有施壓的這種味道因為這樣的軍事恫嚇跟這個灰色地帶的洗澡我想這已經是他們現在一貫都常常在做的一件事情但是你覺得民眾有感受到不安嗎?\n\n03:01.601 --> 03:28.538\n民眾我覺得從光部立場民眾應該要警惕這樣的敵情嚴峻我認為中共在平板的多次環台軍演甚至是夜間操練他希望把這個軍演常態化之後反而不是要讓我們民眾感到不安他的目的可能是讓我們民眾感到麻木讓我們民眾習慣這樣的演練認為說這樣的演練不會對我們的生活造成影響\n\n03:29.238 --> 03:58.126\n那我們的股市還是繼續漲我們的經濟還是繼續在維持蓬勃的發展我認為這都是好事我也認為我們國家的這個應對是非常的妥適的但是我認為民眾應對這樣子的必須要有風險意識所以等一下我也會請教這個針對這個民眾的部分是不是已經習慣中國的威脅而生活照常如果是這樣是民眾的意識風險意識不夠的話有什麼是國防部未來可以需要來去協助的\n\n03:58.826 --> 04:26.982\n我們要如何做好這樣的民防訓練當我們沒有這樣的意識我們就沒有這樣子的動作委員好我是秦司事次長那針對剛剛委員所提問的問題我們在前幾位委員的回答群裡面也回答到這個是一個我們把它歸類成一個複合式的灰色地帶的操作那這裡面有幾個重點包含了我們所講的欺騙\n\n04:28.323 --> 04:51.872\n當然我們所講的欺騙裡面他用的手段裡面包含剛剛委員所提醒到的降低一般民眾百姓對這樣子環台軍援會影響到一般老百姓他們生活的這樣子的壓迫感但其實灰色地帶裡面其中有一個特性就是溫水煮青蛙他希望民眾來習慣這樣子的好像只是針對國軍的這個部分\n\n04:54.414 --> 04:54.554\n：陳冠廷\n\n05:11.255 --> 05:31.863\n我必須強調我們比方我們講以色列好了他們不是不知道風險他們不會把戰爭去敏感化所以在每一個作用力的時候就是當每次在這個敵對勢力發動攻擊的時候或者是洋裝發動攻擊的時候他們都會有相應的動作所以不是坐在這邊說我們不會發生任何事情反正他們也不敢\n\n05:32.563 --> 05:32.683\n陳冠廷\n\n05:54.600 --> 05:54.740\n﹚陳冠廷﹚\n\n06:19.153 --> 06:42.905\n並不是來自民間的NGO等等來自於官方的國家的這樣才有公信力所以說依照用戶的位置還可以提出個人的警報傳達官方正式的訊息這是說避免戰爭時期或者是衝突時期的錯假亂訊息我認為這是非常重要現在他們還可以直接應用到他們的電視上面所以等於是跨世代不是只有年輕的朋友們\n\n06:43.365 --> 06:43.525\n﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷\n\n07:12.413 --> 07:28.523\n傳訊息我們辦公室有請國防部來回應一下隔離跟封鎖之間的不同還有國軍的應對跟作為但是這個國軍我們國防部是回應我們針對封鎖的部分我想請教一下針對隔離的說明是不是可以簡單來跟我們分享一下\n\n07:31.260 --> 08:00.699\n委員好有關於隔離跟封鎖這兩個不同的態樣或者是有什麼相似之處這個部分我們在國防部裡面包括我們法律司跟我們情事室整個國防部針對這兩個特別的應該講說是他們在操作上面會有什麼樣的現象那我們國防部要怎麼樣的應處針對這個部分其實我們已經在已經進行了一段時間那就法律上面的界定是不是\n\n08:03.061 --> 08:25.723\n委員好我是法律司司長封鎖原則上它是國家對國家隔離是從國際法上後面再發展出來的一個等於是概念式的用語那在實際上面它是會有一些區別而且執行封鎖跟執行隔離它執行的人也會有一點不一樣那細部的話我們看是不是在跟委員做一個\n\n08:26.803 --> 08:43.475\n上次是有給我們針對封鎖的解釋就是透過軍事手段來圍困對手跟他的運輸補給但是在於隔離的部分這個部分可能就是灰色地帶我看CSS在6月的時候有出相關的討論他是說在透過海上交通的執勤執法\n\n08:44.235 --> 08:45.256\n我只是補充就是說因為隔離跟封鎖我想封鎖是一個\n\n09:11.946 --> 09:32.154\n國家對國家之間的一個概念如果他真正的實施這個所謂的封鎖的話那以現在這一次來講的話那他就要宣布進航區那相關的這些船艦或者是載空機要經過的話都都都要經過他的許可像這樣子的一個全面性的封鎖是形同宣告這個戰爭\n\n09:34.395 --> 09:59.959\n那這樣子的一個舉動那這個就會進入到一個不只是影響台灣甚至影響到整個國際那隔離的這個部分他就會進行一個比較有限度的一個一個一個一個措施那比如說他是用執法的一個作為然後來用海警船的這個作為來進行相關的一些有限度的一些居宿然後或者是登檢的這樣子的一個作為\n\n10:00.579 --> 10:23.462\n謝謝部長,再麻煩國防部可以給我們相關的我們的反制的做法那最後再問一題,謝謝趙偉那就是我們已經接到很多不管是各國的智庫或者是甚至各國的政要都提到說希望我們提升國防預算來展現防衛決心但是我想請教就是我們提升國防預算重點不是提升而已而是要構置什麼,要防禦什麼,要有什麼樣的能力,要維持什麼樣的能力\n\n10:23.982 --> 10:52.184\n那這一次的中東局勢我們來看到說這個伊朗以色列還有這些他的這些那他不斷的在對以色列直接發動攻襲這次好像說最近一次是發動130枚飛彈那去瞄準三個軍事基地但是大部分的這個飛彈都被攔截起來那還有公民的冷靜還有遵循安全的指引包含我們剛剛提到的這些應用的方式沒有什麼樣死亡的案例我想請教這個部長現在我們的防空的系統有沒有辦法\n\n10:53.144 --> 10:55.005\n國防部長\n\n11:12.470 --> 11:12.770\n國防部長顧立雄報告\n\n11:28.704 --> 11:28.804\n李卓人議員\n\n11:47.532 --> 11:47.692\n﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.37,"end":27.461,"text":"您好,我們請部長來,部長請是,政委好部長好部長,請問這一次的黃台軍演你認為跟幾次先前的這種大型的軍演有什麼不同是他們主要的意圖是在封鎖、在拒組、在外島奪取、在登陸作戰還是在網路攻擊、測試反應還是以上皆是"},{"start":28.649,"end":42.262,"text":"我想他的本來過去相關的一些包括聯合戰備軍型本來就有一些您剛提到類似的操演的科目那現在這一次當然是首次以這個艦載機這個就遼寧號的艦載機進入我們的東部空域"},{"start":46.866,"end":47.928,"text":"海警執法巡邏區域聯合力艦2024A"},{"start":62.29,"end":62.51,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":78.626,"end":79.427,"text":"這幾點大概應該是可以觀察出來"},{"start":95.575,"end":117.449,"text":"那部長你覺得在這幾次軍演從2022年之後然後到聯合歷屆AB之後你覺得他的這個能力我們不講意圖就在講他們經過多次的這種環島的演訓之後他們能力有沒有提高整體的協調的能力還有跨軍種協調的能力你覺得透過這樣的演練中共的這些軍演之後他的能力有沒有提高"},{"start":118.3,"end":137.605,"text":"超演跟委員報告這個聯合行動的這個能力的這個評估我們認為中國還是有很多要改進的因為超演是一回事真正實戰到時候只管通信是一回事因為超演是一種他"},{"start":139.445,"end":142.727,"text":"部長你覺得他們這些演練在對於國民來講他是不是想要創造我們民眾感受到不安這個部分你覺得他們有沒有這個意圖"},{"start":163.191,"end":180.038,"text":"您是說對台灣嗎?對台灣當然是有施壓的這種味道因為這樣的軍事恫嚇跟這個灰色地帶的洗澡我想這已經是他們現在一貫都常常在做的一件事情但是你覺得民眾有感受到不安嗎?"},{"start":181.601,"end":208.538,"text":"民眾我覺得從光部立場民眾應該要警惕這樣的敵情嚴峻我認為中共在平板的多次環台軍演甚至是夜間操練他希望把這個軍演常態化之後反而不是要讓我們民眾感到不安他的目的可能是讓我們民眾感到麻木讓我們民眾習慣這樣的演練認為說這樣的演練不會對我們的生活造成影響"},{"start":209.238,"end":238.126,"text":"那我們的股市還是繼續漲我們的經濟還是繼續在維持蓬勃的發展我認為這都是好事我也認為我們國家的這個應對是非常的妥適的但是我認為民眾應對這樣子的必須要有風險意識所以等一下我也會請教這個針對這個民眾的部分是不是已經習慣中國的威脅而生活照常如果是這樣是民眾的意識風險意識不夠的話有什麼是國防部未來可以需要來去協助的"},{"start":238.826,"end":266.982,"text":"我們要如何做好這樣的民防訓練當我們沒有這樣的意識我們就沒有這樣子的動作委員好我是秦司事次長那針對剛剛委員所提問的問題我們在前幾位委員的回答群裡面也回答到這個是一個我們把它歸類成一個複合式的灰色地帶的操作那這裡面有幾個重點包含了我們所講的欺騙"},{"start":268.323,"end":291.872,"text":"當然我們所講的欺騙裡面他用的手段裡面包含剛剛委員所提醒到的降低一般民眾百姓對這樣子環台軍援會影響到一般老百姓他們生活的這樣子的壓迫感但其實灰色地帶裡面其中有一個特性就是溫水煮青蛙他希望民眾來習慣這樣子的好像只是針對國軍的這個部分"},{"start":294.414,"end":294.554,"text":"：陳冠廷"},{"start":311.255,"end":331.863,"text":"我必須強調我們比方我們講以色列好了他們不是不知道風險他們不會把戰爭去敏感化所以在每一個作用力的時候就是當每次在這個敵對勢力發動攻擊的時候或者是洋裝發動攻擊的時候他們都會有相應的動作所以不是坐在這邊說我們不會發生任何事情反正他們也不敢"},{"start":332.563,"end":332.683,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":354.6,"end":354.74,"text":"﹚陳冠廷﹚"},{"start":379.153,"end":402.905,"text":"並不是來自民間的NGO等等來自於官方的國家的這樣才有公信力所以說依照用戶的位置還可以提出個人的警報傳達官方正式的訊息這是說避免戰爭時期或者是衝突時期的錯假亂訊息我認為這是非常重要現在他們還可以直接應用到他們的電視上面所以等於是跨世代不是只有年輕的朋友們"},{"start":403.365,"end":403.525,"text":"﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷"},{"start":432.413,"end":448.523,"text":"傳訊息我們辦公室有請國防部來回應一下隔離跟封鎖之間的不同還有國軍的應對跟作為但是這個國軍我們國防部是回應我們針對封鎖的部分我想請教一下針對隔離的說明是不是可以簡單來跟我們分享一下"},{"start":451.26,"end":480.699,"text":"委員好有關於隔離跟封鎖這兩個不同的態樣或者是有什麼相似之處這個部分我們在國防部裡面包括我們法律司跟我們情事室整個國防部針對這兩個特別的應該講說是他們在操作上面會有什麼樣的現象那我們國防部要怎麼樣的應處針對這個部分其實我們已經在已經進行了一段時間那就法律上面的界定是不是"},{"start":483.061,"end":505.723,"text":"委員好 我是法律司司長封鎖原則上它是國家對國家隔離是從國際法上後面再發展出來的一個等於是概念式的用語那在實際上面它是會有一些區別而且執行封鎖跟執行隔離它執行的人也會有一點不一樣那細部的話我們看是不是在跟委員做一個"},{"start":506.803,"end":523.475,"text":"上次是有給我們針對封鎖的解釋就是透過軍事手段來圍困對手跟他的運輸補給但是在於隔離的部分這個部分可能就是灰色地帶我看CSS在6月的時候有出相關的討論他是說在透過海上交通的執勤執法"},{"start":524.235,"end":525.256,"text":"我只是補充就是說因為隔離跟封鎖我想封鎖是一個"},{"start":551.946,"end":572.154,"text":"國家對國家之間的一個概念如果他真正的實施這個所謂的封鎖的話那以現在這一次來講的話那他就要宣布進航區那相關的這些船艦或者是載空機要經過的話都都都要經過他的許可像這樣子的一個全面性的封鎖是形同宣告這個戰爭"},{"start":574.395,"end":599.959,"text":"那這樣子的一個舉動那這個就會進入到一個不只是影響台灣甚至影響到整個國際那隔離的這個部分他就會進行一個比較有限度的一個一個一個一個措施那比如說他是用執法的一個作為然後來用海警船的這個作為來進行相關的一些有限度的一些居宿然後或者是登檢的這樣子的一個作為"},{"start":600.579,"end":623.462,"text":"謝謝部長,再麻煩國防部可以給我們相關的我們的反制的做法那最後再問一題,謝謝趙偉那就是我們已經接到很多不管是各國的智庫或者是甚至各國的政要都提到說希望我們提升國防預算來展現防衛決心但是我想請教就是我們提升國防預算重點不是提升而已而是要構置什麼,要防禦什麼,要有什麼樣的能力,要維持什麼樣的能力"},{"start":623.982,"end":652.184,"text":"那這一次的中東局勢我們來看到說這個伊朗以色列還有這些他的這些那他不斷的在對以色列直接發動攻襲這次好像說最近一次是發動130枚飛彈那去瞄準三個軍事基地但是大部分的這個飛彈都被攔截起來那還有公民的冷靜還有遵循安全的指引包含我們剛剛提到的這些應用的方式沒有什麼樣死亡的案例我想請教這個部長現在我們的防空的系統有沒有辦法"},{"start":653.144,"end":655.005,"text":"國防部長"},{"start":672.47,"end":672.77,"text":"國防部長顧立雄報告"},{"start":688.704,"end":688.804,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":707.532,"end":707.692,"text":"﹚陳冠廷﹚陳冠廷"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":488,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（11時10分）您好，我們請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：是，陳委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。部長，請問這一次的環臺軍演，你認為跟先前幾次的大型軍演有什麼不同？他們主要的意圖是在封鎖、在拒止、在外島奪取、在登陸作戰，還是在網路攻擊、測試反應，還是以上皆是？"],["顧部長立雄：我想它本來過去相關的一些作為，包括聯合戰備警巡，本來就有一些您剛提到類似的操演科目，現在這一次是首次以遼寧號的艦載機進入我們的東部空域，當然單日空中的兵力架次是最高；另外就是海警執法的巡邏區域，在聯合利劍2024-A的部分主要是壓在東邊，今年就是擴及到臺海周邊，還有外島地區。此外，當然增加萬噸海警的船在東邊，所以整個的目的看起來應該就是要將臺海內水化、臺灣內政化。","另外，這一次的演訓只有一天啦，不過它配合輿論等認知攻防的手段，企圖加大威懾力度，來影響我們的民心士氣，我想這幾點大概應該是可以觀察出來。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，你覺得在這幾次軍演中，從2022年之後，然後到聯合利劍A、B之後，我們不講意圖，就在講他們經過多次的環島演訓之後，他們能力有沒有提高？整體協調的能力，還有跨軍種協調的能力，你覺得透過這樣的演練，中共在這些軍演之後其能力有沒有提高？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，這個聯合行動能力的評估，我們認為中國還是有很多要改進的，操演是一回事，到時候真正實戰指管通訊是一回事，因為操演是它準備好的一種模式來進行，但是真正進入作戰的時候，聯合作戰指管的部分還需要經過一番驗證。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，你覺得他們這些演練，對於國民來講，是不是想要讓我們民眾感受到不安？這一個部分，你覺得他們有沒有這樣的意圖？"],["顧部長立雄：您是說對臺灣嗎？還是？"],["陳委員冠廷：沒錯，對臺灣。"],["顧部長立雄：對臺灣當然是有施壓的這種味道，因為這樣的軍事恫嚇跟灰色地帶的襲擾，我想這已經是他們現在一貫、常常在做的一件事情。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，但是你覺得民眾有感受到不安嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我覺得從國防部的立場，民眾應該要警惕這樣的敵情嚴峻。"],["陳委員冠廷：沒錯！我認為中共在頻繁、多次的環臺軍演，甚至是夜間操練，它希望把軍演常態化之後，反而不是要讓我們民眾感到不安，它的目的可能是讓我們民眾感到麻木，讓我們民眾習慣這樣子的演練，認為說這樣的演練不會對我們的生活造成影響，我們的股市還是繼續漲，我們的經濟還是繼續在維持蓬勃的發展，我認為這都是好事，我也認為我們國家的應對非常妥適，但是我認為民眾應對這樣子的軍演，必須要有風險意識。等一下我也會請教針對民眾的部分，是不是已經習慣中國的威脅，而生活照常，如果是這樣子，民眾的風險意識不夠的話，有什麼是國防部未來需要去協助的？我們要如何做好這樣的民防訓練？當我們沒有這樣的意識，我們就沒有這樣的動作嘛！"],["謝次長日升：委員好，我是情次室次長。針對剛剛委員所提問的問題，我們在前幾位委員的答詢裡面也回答到，我們把它歸類成一個複合式、灰色地帶的操作，這裡面有幾個重點，包含了我們所講的欺騙。當然我們所講的欺騙裡面、它用的手段裡面，包含剛剛委員所提醒到的，降低一般民眾百姓對環臺軍演會影響到他們生活的壓迫感。其實在灰色地帶裡面其中有一個特性，就是溫水煮青蛙，它希望民眾來習慣這樣子的狀況，好像只是針對國軍部分造成壓力，並不會改變民眾的日常生活。我想這些都是我們必須要用跨域的手段，配合其他部會共同來努力，提高我們國人針對他們這樣軍演對我們的影響。"],["陳委員冠廷：我必須強調，比方我們講以色列好了，他們不是不知道風險，他們不會把戰爭去敏感化，所以在每一個作用力的時候，就是當每次敵對勢力發動攻擊的時候，或者是佯裝發動攻擊的時候，他們都會有相應的動作，所以不是坐在這邊說我們不會發生任何事情，反正他們也不敢，他們是假設他們敢，而且他們真的會做。我還是建議，因為現在臺灣不管是各個部門，包含內政部可能是在Google上面搜尋有建立清單，讓民眾知道最近的民防避難設施在哪裡，或者是有一些細胞簡訊讓民眾知道飛彈來了，大家要注意安全，但是我們可以協調統合所有資訊，類似像以色列的後方司令部一個叫作Home Front Command的應用程式一樣，結合這些能力以色列的Home Front Command app可以即時提供安全。警報、發布官方指示及行動建議，也就是我們不是只有知道OK有這件事情發生，而是知道有事情發生之後我們該怎麼做，而且並不是來自民間的這些NGO等等，而是來自於官方的、國家的訊息，這樣才有公信力，且依照用戶的位置，還可以提出個人的警報，傳達官方正式的訊息，以避免戰爭時期或者是衝突時期的錯假亂訊息，我認為這是非常重要的。現在他們還可以直接應用到他們的電視上面，所以等於是跨世代，不是只有年輕的朋友們，甚至是70歲以上不太熟悉這些智慧型手機、智慧型平板應用的人，都可以得到這樣的資訊。我認為這可以由國防部擔任起領導協調的角色，把它全部整合起來，不用有時候找內政部的、看內政部的，有些時候是看另外部門的，我認為這是一個我們可以做的部分。","另外，我們剛才提到隔離跟封鎖，我想請教一下，我有特別去傳訊息，我們辦公室有請國防部來回應一下隔離跟封鎖之間的不同，還有國軍的應對跟作為，國防部是回應我們針對封鎖的部分。我想請教一下，針對隔離的說明，是不是可以簡單來跟我們分享一下？"],["謝次長日升：委員好。有關於隔離跟封鎖這兩個不同的態樣，或者是有什麼相似之處，這個部分在國防部裡面，包括我們的法律司跟情次室，整個國防部針對這兩個特別的部分，應該說在操作上面會有什麼樣的現象，國防部要怎麼樣來應處，針對這個部分，其實我們已經進行了一段時間，就法律上面的界定，是不是……"],["沈司長世偉：委員好，我是法律司司長。原則上封鎖是國家對國家，隔離是從國際法後面再發展出來的，等於是概念式的一個用語，在實際上面會有一些區別，而且執行封鎖跟執行隔離，其執行的人也會有一點不一樣，細部的話，我們看是不是再跟委員說明？"],["陳委員冠廷：上次有給我們針對封鎖的解釋，就是透過軍事手段來圍困對手跟其運輸補給，但是在隔離的部分，這個部分可能就是灰色地帶。我看CSIS在6月的時候有出相關的討論，它是說透過海上交通的執勤執法。"],["沈司長世偉：對。"],["陳委員冠廷：在這個部分，我是希望可不可以給我們法律上面，或者是把相關的報告給我們，因為我們只接收到封鎖的部分，但是在還沒有進入黑色地帶，而在灰色地帶的時候，隔離的部分我們該怎麼樣應處，這個部分是我們想要知道的，也不是只有我們想要知道，還有我們的盟國們也都想要知道我們怎麼樣面對這樣的挑戰。部長有什麼要補充的嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我只是補充，針對隔離跟封鎖，我想封鎖是一個國家對國家之間的概念，如果它真正實施所謂封鎖，以現在這一次來講的話，它就要宣布禁航區，相關這些船艦或者是載空機要經過的話，都要經過它的許可。像這樣全面性的封鎖，形同宣告戰爭，這樣的舉動就會進入到一個狀況，不只是影響臺灣，甚至影響到整個國際。至於隔離的部分，就會進行一個比較有限度的措施，比如說，它是用執法的作為，然後用海警船的作為來進行一些相關有限度的拘束，或者是登檢這樣子的作為。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長，再麻煩國防部給我們相關的資料，包括我們反制的作法。","最後再問一題，謝謝召委，我們已經接到很多資訊，不管是各國的智庫，甚至是各國的政要都提到了，希望我們提升國防預算來展現防衛決心，但是我想請教，我們提升國防預算的重點不只是要提升而已，而是要購置什麼、要防禦什麼、要有什麼樣的能力、要維持什麼樣的能力。這一次的中東局勢，我們看到伊朗還有這些surrogate，不斷的在對以色列直接發動攻擊，最近一次好像是發動130枚飛彈，去瞄準3個軍事基地，但是大部分的飛彈都被攔截下來，還有公民的冷靜，還有遵循安全的指引，包含我們剛剛提到的這些應用方式，所以沒有什麼樣的死亡案例。我想請教部長，現在我們的防空系統有沒有辦法，不管是維持我們的防空系統，在戰時還能夠維持我們的生產能力？我看我們現在不管是防空的、反艦的，還有反制飛彈的產能等等，有辦法在戰時繼續生產，去面對中共大規模的飛彈侵擾嗎？我們的防空儲備夠嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想這個就是能夠自主生產的重要性，而且這個涉及到初期它做火力打擊的時候，我們要怎麼樣來應處，然後用來節省後續它可能會有再一次的攻擊，之後能夠再進行反制等等。這些相關的部分，我們都有一個妥善的討論，然後來應處。我們畢竟是一個海島國家，所以我們的自主生產能力當然很重要，在相關應對它的攻擊，不管是幾周波的火力打擊，這個部分我們如何能夠保存，然後來進行反制，這也是在研討範圍之內，但是因為這部分相關具體的作為事涉機敏，可能不適宜在這裡公開。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員，部長請回。倒是那個quarantine跟blockade，因為現在國際有關注這兩個部分，我看了下禮拜的議程，也許我們到時候可以來討論。","接下來處理臨時提案，總共有兩個提案，請議事人員宣讀第一案。","一、","因應高齡化社會，整體護理人力需求增加，男性護理人員服兵役期間須中斷其護理專業工作，退伍後重返職場亦需時間適應醫療環境，建議「具護理師證照役男優先分發國軍醫院服役」，除增加國軍醫院護理人力，役男服役期間亦可持續精進護理專業技術，甚或志願留任國軍醫院服務。建請國防部於二個月內提出研議方案，提報立法院外交及國防委員會。","提案人：王定宇","連署人：羅美玲　　陳永康　　林憶君　　沈伯洋　　林楚茵　　洪申翰　　陳冠廷"],["主席：本席先做臨時提案的概要說明，也謝謝本委員會全部各黨派都有參與連署。第一個，適才適用。我也感謝國防部，我印象是在邱國正部長的任內，我們有提過醫科學生當兵去當步槍兵真的是浪費了，不是浪費他當醫生，而是我們部隊需要人才的訓練，我就不用另外再訓練EMT，包括EMT-1、EMT-2、EMT-P，護理人員也一樣，因為我後來去查了，我們現在護理學校護理系畢業的男性人數其實已經有數千人了，所以在服役期間，他的專長就是護理，適才適用，縮減我們訓練的成本，也提高他服役時期工作表現的效能，退伍以後，更可以建構全民防衛的韌性，所以以上是本席提案的原因，希望能夠讓具護理師證照的役男可以根據他這樣的專長，優先分發在軍醫單位服役。我不知道現場委員有沒有其他意見？主管機關有沒有意見？"],["楊次長基榮：報告召委，援例由我率業管來回答這個臨時提案。依據剛剛委員會提出的這個臨時提案，我們初步評估14所國軍軍醫院的能量是具有可行性的，所以我們不做文字上的修正。"],["主席：好，按照國防部文字修正後照案通過。我給你兩個月時間研議，這樣好不好？"],["楊次長基榮：是，謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝常次。","第二案，請宣讀。","二、","職業軍人雖屬廣義公務員，惟工作屬性與公務員有本質上不同，且受「陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例」等相關法規規範，有限階限年退伍的規定。","由於職業軍人退伍年齡多為青壯年，國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會為協助媒合退伍袍澤投入社會，順利銜接第二職涯，積極建置「退除役官兵軍民專長轉銜作業」系統，期能協助退伍袍澤發揮最大轉職效益。","緣此，國防部「公餘進修」政策也應與時俱進，適時轉型，不應再以補助學習經費為前提宣導「攻讀與職、業務有關學位或技術證照為主」限制進修空間，鼓勵所屬官兵不論與職、業務有無關聯性或有無補助，均應妥善利用公餘時間，積極學習進修，且官兵個人可將公餘進修所獲得之學位、證照、檢定、證明等學習成果向人事部門申請核准登載於兵籍資料並確實完成電子兵資線傳，俾利官兵退伍後國防部可將電子兵資提供國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會運用，協助退伍官兵媒合專長順利就業，期能無縫接軌第二職涯。","惟為避免全面開放「公餘進修」美意遭濫用，有關公餘進修學習經費補助及與職、業務有無關聯之人事運用認定仍依相關規定辦理，上述與職、業務無關聯之學位、證照、檢定、證明等僅登載於兵籍資料作為退伍後媒合就業之運用，不得作為現役期間派職、晉任等人事運用之依據。請國防部於二個月內，將「國軍軍職人員公餘進修實施規定」及「陸海空軍兵籍資料管理及查證作業規定」相關條文提出修正，提報立法院外交及國防委員會，並積極向所屬官兵宣導將此前所獲得之學位、證照、檢定、證明等資料儘速申請登載於兵籍資料（含電子兵資），俾利將現役及退伍兩階段完整銜接落實全職涯規劃，嘉惠全體官兵。","提案人：王定宇","連署人：羅美玲　　林憶君　　沈伯洋　　洪申翰　　林楚茵　　陳冠廷"],["主席：好，謝謝。本席做臨時提案概要說明，首先，感謝本委員會跨黨派也都連署提案，在此概要說明，第一個，由於退輔會有一個退除役官兵專長訓練轉銜作業，然後我們這邊有電子兵資，關於我們所有職業軍人在退伍的時候怎麼樣去銜接第二春繼續就業的部分，因為職業軍人退役的時候，多數都還相當年輕，現有的規定是要按照他的職、業務有關的才會列在他的兵資，但我們希望非有關的部分，可以擴大他學習的動力，他自己利用公餘來學習，學習之後取得證照、取得相關專長之後，我們相關單位應該要把它列入電子兵資線傳的內容。但是為了避免我們補助款或者是晉升、派任時的困擾，我提案最後一項還特別提到我們補助的審查與否，就按照現有規定，他自己想要多學，比方說他是裝甲兵，他想要學烹飪、學廚藝，那跟現有的業務專長不同，他可以去學，也可以拿到證照，我們也把它納入兵資系統裡面，方便退輔會後面銜接的訓練跟第二專長的派任，這樣才不會我在部隊學的軍事專長，到了民間卻沒辦法用。另外，像派任、晉升等運用之依據，都遵照原規定，避免影響我們現有的體制。以上是我們提案的案由，不知道我們在場委員有沒有意見？沒有意見，請部裡面說明。"],["楊次長基榮：報告召委及各位委員，鼓勵官兵進修取得相關學位跟證照，這一向是我們國防部的政策，而且我們有很積極的作法。至於委員會的臨時提案，有關登錄兵表、進修的學習經費補助仍維持與職務有關，避免美意遭到濫用，以及派職、晉任、軍事學資這些運用等等，經審視之後，我們會按照委員會的臨時提案下去研修，文字部分不修改。"],["主席：好，所以兵籍資料線傳要照這個作法。","以上兩個提案原則上照案通過，但文字修正授權國防部陸軍常次調整處理。","我們現在休息5分鐘，待會繼續進行詢答。","休息（11時30分）","繼續開會（11時36分）"],["主席：我們恢復開會。在進行委員詢答前，本席再次宣告，因為我們一開始的宣告有委員沒聽到。因為禮拜四國防部有軍談，即總統府專案會議，所以待會12點整，顧立雄部長、副總長執行官、全動署以及情次室、作計室前往參加會議，但都會有代理人，副部長會代理，在場的三位委員應該都問得到，但我還是要宣告一下。","我們接下來請賴士葆委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","洪申翰","林憶君","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林岱樺","鍾佳濱","馬文君","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","徐富癸","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉建國"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00001"}}}