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\"end\": 410.66, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 410.66, \"end\": 410.76, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"承\", \"start\": 410.76, \"end\": 410.78, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"諾\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,303 --> 00:00:16,314\n現在主席請陳部長請陳部長部長好\n\n2\n00:00:27,793 --> 00:00:45,422\n這段時間我們討論了蠻多這個農地跟再生能源跟光電之間的這些問題那我們大概理解農業部有農業部在這方面農業為本的想法但我想要跟部長來請教部長你看一下這個照片\n\n3\n00:00:46,862 --> 00:01:09,337\n像這樣一個小小的農機巨市喔那其實周遭其實沒有太多的植物因喔那他假如也在一個受光條件好的地方你覺得他適不適合做屋頂光墊我跟委員報告做屋頂光墊本身除了建築物本身所在的屋頂以外他也要考慮到潰線跟他後續的當然這個意思是說潰線都沒有問題啊你覺得適不適合\n\n4\n00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:42,411\n我個人覺得如果屋頂型的話他沒有用到地面喔對他沒有用到地面是可以去做這樣的方式可以做這樣的方式嘛對不對部長這個不知道你知不知道其實像這樣一個農機具市或一個資材市其實他的面積真的不大他經濟效益也沒有很大可是很多農民他其實某個部分他也贊成也支持但目前喔很多的程序現在很多的程序都是卡在農業部不夠積極的作為部長你知不知道這件事情\n\n5\n00:01:43,281 --> 00:02:02,031\n我想一個非常重要的問題就是這個農機具本身的面積基地面積是因為他要合法嘛那現在是規定在45平方公尺以下的話是沒有辦法有建造的不然我給你看一下這是今年8月初這是農民喔這是你們主管的農民喔農民來向我們陳情喔\n\n6\n00:02:03,132 --> 00:02:26,836\n他說他自己在民國110年參加農業部農業設施設置屋頂光墊說明媒合會上面宣傳上面是很明確的寫到說農業資材室是有被納入到農業設施屋頂光墊裡面的所以這個農民他即便知道自己屋頂的面積很小沒什麼經濟效益但他還是願意自掏腰包來響應政府相關的政策\n\n7\n00:02:27,389 --> 00:02:55,634\n但卻被農業部拒絕,要求他一定要有建築物的執照或使用或使照所以我們在8月底的時候找了三個部會來我們找了能源署,經營部能源署也找了國土署,也找了農業部都來一起來釐清我們問了能源署,能源署說其實能源署說這個建造並不是必要的條件可以有其他文件來去取代\n\n8\n00:02:56,792 --> 00:03:20,030\n那國土組說確實農法條例已經排除了45平方公尺以下的建物免申請建造這事情而且特別法是優先於普通法但這個在農業部的法理上面確實看起來那次呈現看起來是需要承擔更多的責任不想所以呢我們當時其實發文要求在8月底的時候我手上這筆\n\n9\n00:03:21,523 --> 00:03:48,249\n這公文8月29發出的那我們要求在9月12號以前農業部應該要主動協調但到今天農業部還是沒有作為一場會議都沒有召開也沒有任何公文的含附我們要求9月12號應該要回覆在這公文上面現在10月中了我們問了國土署\n\n10\n00:03:49,788 --> 00:04:15,542\n農業部有沒有找你們?他說沒有我知道這裡面會有一些建築安全要怎麼去確保的機制上面設計的問題我們都清楚但我要說的事情是第一個農民的需求是誰主管?農業部吧那這包括這上面農地上面種種的事情包括他的許可等等等的資材是也是農業部在管的對不對?是\n\n11\n00:04:17,415 --> 00:04:17,435\n部長﹗\n\n12\n00:04:33,767 --> 00:05:00,355\n我想如果照委員這樣講,違背了我當初520以後,我要求我們農業部一定要用更積極服務的態度去服務農民。那以剛才委員敘述的部分,我覺得就像剛才我們同仁有講說有在做,可是我覺得那個包括時間也太久了。因為有很多是需要跨部會解決的部分,也許你們需要其他部會某些協助或諮詢,這我都同意。\n\n13\n00:05:01,275 --> 00:05:08,544\n但是我要再強調一次這是農民的需求是這不是光電廠商的需求是如果是光電廠商的需求我會去找經濟部\n\n14\n00:05:09,861 --> 00:05:34,195\n但這是農民的需求,農民想做沒有人逼他,也沒有什麼經濟效益也不是這裡面會有什麼大的圖利,都不會有農民就想做,他的需求在農地上面在農業部主管的資材室上面我覺得農業部應該承擔起主動協調並找到方案的角色,部長你同不同意?我也同意,以農民的角度因為資材是我們農業部所來管的部分,我們應該\n\n15\n00:05:35,583 --> 00:05:51,945\n甚至可以當作主責就是對於可不可以應該當作最後決定的一個單位啦所以這個部分我想我會要求我們相關的單位不想這樣在這個制裁是幾乎所有都符合你們原本說明跟宣誓的原則啊並沒有影響到農業生產啊對也沒有用到農土農地啊\n\n16\n00:05:53,072 --> 00:05:55,073\n部長,我願意再給農業部一次時間,一個月的時間,在幾個部會裡面,主動承擔協調處理這件事情的方案\n\n17\n00:06:14,904 --> 00:06:42,453\n不一定只要靠只有是建造或始造啦有很多的方式都可以去確認這樣子一個制裁式的安全問題啦是能源署也都會認啦就我問能源署能源署也說他都會認啦所以不一定只有一種方法可是農業部要去協調出這個方法部長沒有問題一個月可以嗎我覺得沒問題就我舉個例子齁就以溫室的部分有沒有我們就可以委託學校變成溫室的強度結構我們都可以去做技師簽證所以像這個部分我覺得一定可以解決啦\n\n18\n00:06:43,113 --> 00:06:50,780\n部長你講得很好,我們就一個月的時間,我們必須解決這個問題。這是你的承諾嘛對不對?承諾沒問題?會。好,OK,謝謝部長。我們在等待你的承諾。謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n303\t16314\t現在主席請陳部長請陳部長部長好\n27793\t45422\t這段時間我們討論了蠻多這個農地跟再生能源跟光電之間的這些問題那我們大概理解農業部有農業部在這方面農業為本的想法但我想要跟部長來請教部長你看一下這個照片\n46862\t69337\t像這樣一個小小的農機巨市喔那其實周遭其實沒有太多的植物因喔那他假如也在一個受光條件好的地方你覺得他適不適合做屋頂光墊我跟委員報告做屋頂光墊本身除了建築物本身所在的屋頂以外他也要考慮到潰線跟他後續的當然這個意思是說潰線都沒有問題啊你覺得適不適合\n73320\t102411\t我個人覺得如果屋頂型的話他沒有用到地面喔對他沒有用到地面是可以去做這樣的方式可以做這樣的方式嘛對不對部長這個不知道你知不知道其實像這樣一個農機具市或一個資材市其實他的面積真的不大他經濟效益也沒有很大可是很多農民他其實某個部分他也贊成也支持但目前喔很多的程序現在很多的程序都是卡在農業部不夠積極的作為部長你知不知道這件事情\n103281\t122031\t我想一個非常重要的問題就是這個農機具本身的面積基地面積是因為他要合法嘛那現在是規定在45平方公尺以下的話是沒有辦法有建造的不然我給你看一下這是今年8月初這是農民喔這是你們主管的農民喔農民來向我們陳情喔\n123132\t146836\t他說他自己在民國110年參加農業部農業設施設置屋頂光墊說明媒合會上面宣傳上面是很明確的寫到說農業資材室是有被納入到農業設施屋頂光墊裡面的所以這個農民他即便知道自己屋頂的面積很小沒什麼經濟效益但他還是願意自掏腰包來響應政府相關的政策\n147389\t175634\t但卻被農業部拒絕,要求他一定要有建築物的執照或使用或使照所以我們在8月底的時候找了三個部會來我們找了能源署,經營部能源署也找了國土署,也找了農業部都來一起來釐清我們問了能源署,能源署說其實能源署說這個建造並不是必要的條件可以有其他文件來去取代\n176792\t200030\t那國土組說確實農法條例已經排除了45平方公尺以下的建物免申請建造這事情而且特別法是優先於普通法但這個在農業部的法理上面確實看起來那次呈現看起來是需要承擔更多的責任不想所以呢我們當時其實發文要求在8月底的時候我手上這筆\n201523\t228249\t這公文8月29發出的那我們要求在9月12號以前農業部應該要主動協調但到今天農業部還是沒有作為一場會議都沒有召開也沒有任何公文的含附我們要求9月12號應該要回覆在這公文上面現在10月中了我們問了國土署\n229788\t255542\t農業部有沒有找你們?他說沒有我知道這裡面會有一些建築安全要怎麼去確保的機制上面設計的問題我們都清楚但我要說的事情是第一個農民的需求是誰主管?農業部吧那這包括這上面農地上面種種的事情包括他的許可等等等的資材是也是農業部在管的對不對?是\n257415\t257435\t部長﹗\n273767\t300355\t我想如果照委員這樣講,違背了我當初520以後,我要求我們農業部一定要用更積極服務的態度去服務農民。那以剛才委員敘述的部分,我覺得就像剛才我們同仁有講說有在做,可是我覺得那個包括時間也太久了。因為有很多是需要跨部會解決的部分,也許你們需要其他部會某些協助或諮詢,這我都同意。\n301275\t308544\t但是我要再強調一次這是農民的需求是這不是光電廠商的需求是如果是光電廠商的需求我會去找經濟部\n309861\t334195\t但這是農民的需求,農民想做沒有人逼他,也沒有什麼經濟效益也不是這裡面會有什麼大的圖利,都不會有農民就想做,他的需求在農地上面在農業部主管的資材室上面我覺得農業部應該承擔起主動協調並找到方案的角色,部長你同不同意?我也同意,以農民的角度因為資材是我們農業部所來管的部分,我們應該\n335583\t351945\t甚至可以當作主責就是對於可不可以應該當作最後決定的一個單位啦所以這個部分我想我會要求我們相關的單位不想這樣在這個制裁是幾乎所有都符合你們原本說明跟宣誓的原則啊並沒有影響到農業生產啊對也沒有用到農土農地啊\n353072\t355073\t部長,我願意再給農業部一次時間,一個月的時間,在幾個部會裡面,主動承擔協調處理這件事情的方案\n374904\t402453\t不一定只要靠只有是建造或始造啦有很多的方式都可以去確認這樣子一個制裁式的安全問題啦是能源署也都會認啦就我問能源署能源署也說他都會認啦所以不一定只有一種方法可是農業部要去協調出這個方法部長沒有問題一個月可以嗎我覺得沒問題就我舉個例子齁就以溫室的部分有沒有我們就可以委託學校變成溫室的強度結構我們都可以去做技師簽證所以像這個部分我覺得一定可以解決啦\n403113\t410780\t部長你講得很好,我們就一個月的時間,我們必須解決這個問題。這是你的承諾嘛對不對?承諾沒問題?會。好,OK,謝謝部長。我們在等待你的承諾。謝謝。\n","txt":"現在主席請陳部長請陳部長部長好\n這段時間我們討論了蠻多這個農地跟再生能源跟光電之間的這些問題那我們大概理解農業部有農業部在這方面農業為本的想法但我想要跟部長來請教部長你看一下這個照片\n像這樣一個小小的農機巨市喔那其實周遭其實沒有太多的植物因喔那他假如也在一個受光條件好的地方你覺得他適不適合做屋頂光墊我跟委員報告做屋頂光墊本身除了建築物本身所在的屋頂以外他也要考慮到潰線跟他後續的當然這個意思是說潰線都沒有問題啊你覺得適不適合\n我個人覺得如果屋頂型的話他沒有用到地面喔對他沒有用到地面是可以去做這樣的方式可以做這樣的方式嘛對不對部長這個不知道你知不知道其實像這樣一個農機具市或一個資材市其實他的面積真的不大他經濟效益也沒有很大可是很多農民他其實某個部分他也贊成也支持但目前喔很多的程序現在很多的程序都是卡在農業部不夠積極的作為部長你知不知道這件事情\n我想一個非常重要的問題就是這個農機具本身的面積基地面積是因為他要合法嘛那現在是規定在45平方公尺以下的話是沒有辦法有建造的不然我給你看一下這是今年8月初這是農民喔這是你們主管的農民喔農民來向我們陳情喔\n他說他自己在民國110年參加農業部農業設施設置屋頂光墊說明媒合會上面宣傳上面是很明確的寫到說農業資材室是有被納入到農業設施屋頂光墊裡面的所以這個農民他即便知道自己屋頂的面積很小沒什麼經濟效益但他還是願意自掏腰包來響應政府相關的政策\n但卻被農業部拒絕,要求他一定要有建築物的執照或使用或使照所以我們在8月底的時候找了三個部會來我們找了能源署,經營部能源署也找了國土署,也找了農業部都來一起來釐清我們問了能源署,能源署說其實能源署說這個建造並不是必要的條件可以有其他文件來去取代\n那國土組說確實農法條例已經排除了45平方公尺以下的建物免申請建造這事情而且特別法是優先於普通法但這個在農業部的法理上面確實看起來那次呈現看起來是需要承擔更多的責任不想所以呢我們當時其實發文要求在8月底的時候我手上這筆\n這公文8月29發出的那我們要求在9月12號以前農業部應該要主動協調但到今天農業部還是沒有作為一場會議都沒有召開也沒有任何公文的含附我們要求9月12號應該要回覆在這公文上面現在10月中了我們問了國土署\n農業部有沒有找你們?他說沒有我知道這裡面會有一些建築安全要怎麼去確保的機制上面設計的問題我們都清楚但我要說的事情是第一個農民的需求是誰主管?農業部吧那這包括這上面農地上面種種的事情包括他的許可等等等的資材是也是農業部在管的對不對?是\n部長﹗\n我想如果照委員這樣講,違背了我當初520以後,我要求我們農業部一定要用更積極服務的態度去服務農民。那以剛才委員敘述的部分,我覺得就像剛才我們同仁有講說有在做,可是我覺得那個包括時間也太久了。因為有很多是需要跨部會解決的部分,也許你們需要其他部會某些協助或諮詢,這我都同意。\n但是我要再強調一次這是農民的需求是這不是光電廠商的需求是如果是光電廠商的需求我會去找經濟部\n但這是農民的需求,農民想做沒有人逼他,也沒有什麼經濟效益也不是這裡面會有什麼大的圖利,都不會有農民就想做,他的需求在農地上面在農業部主管的資材室上面我覺得農業部應該承擔起主動協調並找到方案的角色,部長你同不同意?我也同意,以農民的角度因為資材是我們農業部所來管的部分,我們應該\n甚至可以當作主責就是對於可不可以應該當作最後決定的一個單位啦所以這個部分我想我會要求我們相關的單位不想這樣在這個制裁是幾乎所有都符合你們原本說明跟宣誓的原則啊並沒有影響到農業生產啊對也沒有用到農土農地啊\n部長,我願意再給農業部一次時間,一個月的時間,在幾個部會裡面,主動承擔協調處理這件事情的方案\n不一定只要靠只有是建造或始造啦有很多的方式都可以去確認這樣子一個制裁式的安全問題啦是能源署也都會認啦就我問能源署能源署也說他都會認啦所以不一定只有一種方法可是農業部要去協調出這個方法部長沒有問題一個月可以嗎我覺得沒問題就我舉個例子齁就以溫室的部分有沒有我們就可以委託學校變成溫室的強度結構我們都可以去做技師簽證所以像這個部分我覺得一定可以解決啦\n部長你講得很好,我們就一個月的時間,我們必須解決這個問題。這是你的承諾嘛對不對?承諾沒問題?會。好,OK,謝謝部長。我們在等待你的承諾。謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.303 --> 00:16.314\n現在主席請陳部長請陳部長部長好\n\n00:27.793 --> 00:45.422\n這段時間我們討論了蠻多這個農地跟再生能源跟光電之間的這些問題那我們大概理解農業部有農業部在這方面農業為本的想法但我想要跟部長來請教部長你看一下這個照片\n\n00:46.862 --> 01:09.337\n像這樣一個小小的農機巨市喔那其實周遭其實沒有太多的植物因喔那他假如也在一個受光條件好的地方你覺得他適不適合做屋頂光墊我跟委員報告做屋頂光墊本身除了建築物本身所在的屋頂以外他也要考慮到潰線跟他後續的當然這個意思是說潰線都沒有問題啊你覺得適不適合\n\n01:13.320 --> 01:42.411\n我個人覺得如果屋頂型的話他沒有用到地面喔對他沒有用到地面是可以去做這樣的方式可以做這樣的方式嘛對不對部長這個不知道你知不知道其實像這樣一個農機具市或一個資材市其實他的面積真的不大他經濟效益也沒有很大可是很多農民他其實某個部分他也贊成也支持但目前喔很多的程序現在很多的程序都是卡在農業部不夠積極的作為部長你知不知道這件事情\n\n01:43.281 --> 02:02.031\n我想一個非常重要的問題就是這個農機具本身的面積基地面積是因為他要合法嘛那現在是規定在45平方公尺以下的話是沒有辦法有建造的不然我給你看一下這是今年8月初這是農民喔這是你們主管的農民喔農民來向我們陳情喔\n\n02:03.132 --> 02:26.836\n他說他自己在民國110年參加農業部農業設施設置屋頂光墊說明媒合會上面宣傳上面是很明確的寫到說農業資材室是有被納入到農業設施屋頂光墊裡面的所以這個農民他即便知道自己屋頂的面積很小沒什麼經濟效益但他還是願意自掏腰包來響應政府相關的政策\n\n02:27.389 --> 02:55.634\n但卻被農業部拒絕,要求他一定要有建築物的執照或使用或使照所以我們在8月底的時候找了三個部會來我們找了能源署,經營部能源署也找了國土署,也找了農業部都來一起來釐清我們問了能源署,能源署說其實能源署說這個建造並不是必要的條件可以有其他文件來去取代\n\n02:56.792 --> 03:20.030\n那國土組說確實農法條例已經排除了45平方公尺以下的建物免申請建造這事情而且特別法是優先於普通法但這個在農業部的法理上面確實看起來那次呈現看起來是需要承擔更多的責任不想所以呢我們當時其實發文要求在8月底的時候我手上這筆\n\n03:21.523 --> 03:48.249\n這公文8月29發出的那我們要求在9月12號以前農業部應該要主動協調但到今天農業部還是沒有作為一場會議都沒有召開也沒有任何公文的含附我們要求9月12號應該要回覆在這公文上面現在10月中了我們問了國土署\n\n03:49.788 --> 04:15.542\n農業部有沒有找你們?他說沒有我知道這裡面會有一些建築安全要怎麼去確保的機制上面設計的問題我們都清楚但我要說的事情是第一個農民的需求是誰主管?農業部吧那這包括這上面農地上面種種的事情包括他的許可等等等的資材是也是農業部在管的對不對?是\n\n04:17.415 --> 04:17.435\n部長﹗\n\n04:33.767 --> 05:00.355\n我想如果照委員這樣講,違背了我當初520以後,我要求我們農業部一定要用更積極服務的態度去服務農民。那以剛才委員敘述的部分,我覺得就像剛才我們同仁有講說有在做,可是我覺得那個包括時間也太久了。因為有很多是需要跨部會解決的部分,也許你們需要其他部會某些協助或諮詢,這我都同意。\n\n05:01.275 --> 05:08.544\n但是我要再強調一次這是農民的需求是這不是光電廠商的需求是如果是光電廠商的需求我會去找經濟部\n\n05:09.861 --> 05:34.195\n但這是農民的需求,農民想做沒有人逼他,也沒有什麼經濟效益也不是這裡面會有什麼大的圖利,都不會有農民就想做,他的需求在農地上面在農業部主管的資材室上面我覺得農業部應該承擔起主動協調並找到方案的角色,部長你同不同意?我也同意,以農民的角度因為資材是我們農業部所來管的部分,我們應該\n\n05:35.583 --> 05:51.945\n甚至可以當作主責就是對於可不可以應該當作最後決定的一個單位啦所以這個部分我想我會要求我們相關的單位不想這樣在這個制裁是幾乎所有都符合你們原本說明跟宣誓的原則啊並沒有影響到農業生產啊對也沒有用到農土農地啊\n\n05:53.072 --> 05:55.073\n部長,我願意再給農業部一次時間,一個月的時間,在幾個部會裡面,主動承擔協調處理這件事情的方案\n\n06:14.904 --> 06:42.453\n不一定只要靠只有是建造或始造啦有很多的方式都可以去確認這樣子一個制裁式的安全問題啦是能源署也都會認啦就我問能源署能源署也說他都會認啦所以不一定只有一種方法可是農業部要去協調出這個方法部長沒有問題一個月可以嗎我覺得沒問題就我舉個例子齁就以溫室的部分有沒有我們就可以委託學校變成溫室的強度結構我們都可以去做技師簽證所以像這個部分我覺得一定可以解決啦\n\n06:43.113 --> 06:50.780\n部長你講得很好,我們就一個月的時間,我們必須解決這個問題。這是你的承諾嘛對不對?承諾沒問題?會。好,OK,謝謝部長。我們在等待你的承諾。謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.303,"end":16.314,"text":"現在主席請陳部長請陳部長部長好"},{"start":27.793,"end":45.422,"text":"這段時間我們討論了蠻多這個農地跟再生能源跟光電之間的這些問題那我們大概理解農業部有農業部在這方面農業為本的想法但我想要跟部長來請教部長你看一下這個照片"},{"start":46.862,"end":69.337,"text":"像這樣一個小小的農機巨市喔那其實周遭其實沒有太多的植物因喔那他假如也在一個受光條件好的地方你覺得他適不適合做屋頂光墊我跟委員報告做屋頂光墊本身除了建築物本身所在的屋頂以外他也要考慮到潰線跟他後續的當然這個意思是說潰線都沒有問題啊你覺得適不適合"},{"start":73.32,"end":102.411,"text":"我個人覺得如果屋頂型的話他沒有用到地面喔對他沒有用到地面是可以去做這樣的方式可以做這樣的方式嘛對不對部長這個不知道你知不知道其實像這樣一個農機具市或一個資材市其實他的面積真的不大他經濟效益也沒有很大可是很多農民他其實某個部分他也贊成也支持但目前喔很多的程序現在很多的程序都是卡在農業部不夠積極的作為部長你知不知道這件事情"},{"start":103.281,"end":122.031,"text":"我想一個非常重要的問題就是這個農機具本身的面積基地面積是因為他要合法嘛那現在是規定在45平方公尺以下的話是沒有辦法有建造的不然我給你看一下這是今年8月初這是農民喔這是你們主管的農民喔農民來向我們陳情喔"},{"start":123.132,"end":146.836,"text":"他說他自己在民國110年參加農業部農業設施設置屋頂光墊說明媒合會上面宣傳上面是很明確的寫到說農業資材室是有被納入到農業設施屋頂光墊裡面的所以這個農民他即便知道自己屋頂的面積很小沒什麼經濟效益但他還是願意自掏腰包來響應政府相關的政策"},{"start":147.389,"end":175.634,"text":"但卻被農業部拒絕,要求他一定要有建築物的執照或使用或使照所以我們在8月底的時候找了三個部會來我們找了能源署,經營部能源署也找了國土署,也找了農業部都來一起來釐清我們問了能源署,能源署說其實能源署說這個建造並不是必要的條件可以有其他文件來去取代"},{"start":176.792,"end":200.03,"text":"那國土組說確實農法條例已經排除了45平方公尺以下的建物免申請建造這事情而且特別法是優先於普通法但這個在農業部的法理上面確實看起來那次呈現看起來是需要承擔更多的責任不想所以呢我們當時其實發文要求在8月底的時候我手上這筆"},{"start":201.523,"end":228.249,"text":"這公文8月29發出的那我們要求在9月12號以前農業部應該要主動協調但到今天農業部還是沒有作為一場會議都沒有召開也沒有任何公文的含附我們要求9月12號應該要回覆在這公文上面現在10月中了我們問了國土署"},{"start":229.788,"end":255.542,"text":"農業部有沒有找你們?他說沒有我知道這裡面會有一些建築安全要怎麼去確保的機制上面設計的問題我們都清楚但我要說的事情是第一個農民的需求是誰主管?農業部吧那這包括這上面農地上面種種的事情包括他的許可等等等的資材是也是農業部在管的對不對?是"},{"start":257.415,"end":257.435,"text":"部長﹗"},{"start":273.767,"end":300.355,"text":"我想如果照委員這樣講,違背了我當初520以後,我要求我們農業部一定要用更積極服務的態度去服務農民。那以剛才委員敘述的部分,我覺得就像剛才我們同仁有講說有在做,可是我覺得那個包括時間也太久了。因為有很多是需要跨部會解決的部分,也許你們需要其他部會某些協助或諮詢,這我都同意。"},{"start":301.275,"end":308.544,"text":"但是我要再強調一次這是農民的需求是這不是光電廠商的需求是如果是光電廠商的需求我會去找經濟部"},{"start":309.861,"end":334.195,"text":"但這是農民的需求,農民想做沒有人逼他,也沒有什麼經濟效益也不是這裡面會有什麼大的圖利,都不會有農民就想做,他的需求在農地上面在農業部主管的資材室上面我覺得農業部應該承擔起主動協調並找到方案的角色,部長你同不同意?我也同意,以農民的角度因為資材是我們農業部所來管的部分,我們應該"},{"start":335.583,"end":351.945,"text":"甚至可以當作主責就是對於可不可以應該當作最後決定的一個單位啦所以這個部分我想我會要求我們相關的單位不想這樣在這個制裁是幾乎所有都符合你們原本說明跟宣誓的原則啊並沒有影響到農業生產啊對也沒有用到農土農地啊"},{"start":353.072,"end":355.073,"text":"部長,我願意再給農業部一次時間,一個月的時間,在幾個部會裡面,主動承擔協調處理這件事情的方案"},{"start":374.904,"end":402.453,"text":"不一定只要靠只有是建造或始造啦有很多的方式都可以去確認這樣子一個制裁式的安全問題啦是能源署也都會認啦就我問能源署能源署也說他都會認啦所以不一定只有一種方法可是農業部要去協調出這個方法部長沒有問題一個月可以嗎我覺得沒問題就我舉個例子齁就以溫室的部分有沒有我們就可以委託學校變成溫室的強度結構我們都可以去做技師簽證所以像這個部分我覺得一定可以解決啦"},{"start":403.113,"end":410.78,"text":"部長你講得很好,我們就一個月的時間,我們必須解決這個問題。這是你的承諾嘛對不對?承諾沒問題?會。好,OK,謝謝部長。我們在等待你的承諾。謝謝。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":661,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（11時19分）謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長好。這段時間我們討論了蠻多農地與再生能源、與光電之間的這些問題，我們大概理解農業部有農業部在這方面農業為本的想法。但我想要跟部長來請教，部長看一下這照片，像這樣一個小小的農機具室，周遭其實沒有太多的遮蔭，它假如也在一個受光條件好的地方，你覺得它適不適合做屋頂光電？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，做屋頂光電本身，除了建築物本身所在的屋頂以外，它也要考慮到饋線跟它後續……"],["洪委員申翰：當然，但我的意思是說，如果饋線都沒有問題，你覺得適不適合？"],["陳部長駿季：我個人覺得，如果屋頂型的話……"],["洪委員申翰：它沒有用到地面喔！"],["陳部長駿季：對，它沒有用到地面，是可以去做這樣的方式。"],["洪委員申翰：可以做這樣的方式嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，你知不知道其實像這樣一個農機具室或一個資材室，其實它的面積真的不大，經濟效益也沒有很大，可是很多農民其實某個部分他們也贊成也支持，但目前很多的程序都是卡在農業部不夠積極的作為，部長，你知不知道這件事情？"],["陳部長駿季：我想一個非常重要的問題就是這個農機具室本身的基地面積，因為它要合法嘛，依現在規定在45平方公尺以下的話，是沒有辦法有建照的。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我給你看一下，這是今年8月初，這是農民喔，是你們主管的農民來向我們陳情。他說他自己在民國110年參加農業部農業設施設置屋頂光電說明媒合會，宣傳上面是很明確的寫到「農業資材室是有被納入到農業設施屋頂光電裡面的」，所以這個農民他即便知道自己屋頂的面積很小，沒什麼經濟效益，但他還是願意自掏腰包來響應政府相關的政策，但卻被農業部拒絕，要求他一定要有建築物的建照或使用執照。所以我們在8月底的時候找了三個部會來，我們找了經濟部能源署，也找了國土署，也找了農業部，三個部會一起來釐清，我們問了能源署，能源署說「其實這個建照並不是必要的條件，可以有其他文件來去取代」，國土署說「確實，農發條例已經排除了45平方公尺以下的建物免申請建造這件事情，而且特別法是優先於普通法」，但這個在農業部的法理上面，確實看起來那一次呈下來，看起來是需要承擔更多的責任。部長，所以我們當時發文要求在8月底的時候，我手上這個公文是8月29號發出的，我們要求在9月12號以前，農業部應該要主動協調，但到今天，農業部還是沒有作為！一場會議都沒有召開，也沒有任何公文的函復，在這公文上面，我們要求9月12號應該要回復。現在10月中了，我們問國土署說農業部有沒有找你們？他們說沒有，我知道這裡面會有一些建築物安全要怎麼去確保，這是機制上面設計的問題，我們都清楚，但我要說的事情是，第一個，農民的需求是誰主管？農業部吧？"],["陳部長駿季：農業部。"],["洪委員申翰：包括這上面，農地上面種種的事情，包括它的許可等等的，資材室也是農業部在管的，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["洪委員申翰：我自己認為，到底要用什麼方法去確保它安全上面的問題，這件事情不一定只有一種方法，但農業部應該要積極協調去尋找。現在我感覺農業部的狀況是雙手一攤啊，部長。"],["陳部長駿季：我想如果照委員這樣講，就是違背了當初520以後，我要求我們農業部一定要用更積極服務的態度去服務農民。以剛才委員敘述的部分，我覺得就像剛才我們同仁也講有在做，可是我覺得時間也太久了，因為有很多是需要跨部會解決的部分，只有透過溝通……"],["洪委員申翰：也許你們需要其他部會某些協助或諮詢，這我都同意，但是我要再強調一次，這是農民的需求，這不是光電廠商的需求，如果是光電廠商的需求，我會去找經濟部，但這是農民的需求，農民想做，沒有人逼他，也沒有什麼經濟效益，也不是說這裡面會有什麼大的圖利，都不會有！農民就想做，這是他的需求，在農地上面，在農業部主管的資材室上面，我覺得農業部應該承擔起主動協調並找到方案的角色，部長，你同不同意？"],["陳部長駿季：我也同意以農民的角度，因為資材室是我們農業部管理的部分，我們應該、甚至於可以當作主責，就是對於可不可以當作最後決定的一個單位啦，所以這個部分，我會要求我們相關的單位……"],["洪委員申翰：部長，像這個案例，資材室幾乎所有都符合你們原本說明跟宣示的原則，並沒有影響到農業生產，也沒有用到農地啊，對不對？都符合原則啊。"],["陳部長駿季：我想現在只要去確認因為加蓋了光電會不會造成結構的安全，這個部分我想也應該不難解決啦，因為它一定有一個基本的強度的規範嘛。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我願意再給農業部一個月的時間，在幾個部會裡面主動承擔協調出處理這件事情的方案，不一定只要靠建照或使照啦，有很多的方式都可以去確認這樣子一個資材室的安全問題啦。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["洪委員申翰：能源署也都會認啦，因為我問過能源署，能源署也說他們都會認啦，所以不一定只有一種方法，可是農業部要去協調出這個方法，部長，沒有問題吧？一個月可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我絕對沒問題，我舉個例子，就以溫室的部分，我們就可以委託學校辨識溫室的強度結構，我們都可以去做技師簽證，所以像這個部分，我覺得一定可以解決啦。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，你講得很好，就一個月的時間，我們必須解決這個問題，這是你的承諾嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["洪委員申翰：承諾沒問題？"],["陳部長駿季：會。"],["洪委員申翰：好，謝謝部長，我們再等待你的承諾，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["主席：請陳超明委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-6","speakers":["呂玉玲","張嘉郡","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","洪申翰","陳超明","鄭天財Sra 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