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00:01:25,685\n副部長你覺得為什麼會有這麼多在野黨委員認為這個是所謂的要把孩子送上戰場這樣的說法製造人民的恐慌那我們國防部要不要有一些說法來回應他們的恐慌謝謝委員指導我想國防部在過去等於這個我們講在全民國防教育是一個大家都應該要了解的那對社區的付出和關懷也是需要全民來有的共識\n\n5\n00:01:26,866 --> 00:01:51,085\n那過去國防部所做的這些事情事實上來講就是希望在這種教育的情況下能夠讓我們的高中生他能夠保護自己保護校區的安全那這是什麼這是對於自己是有幫助的而不是說今天叫他拿了槍去上戰場這個是完全是不同的立場所以在教育訓練上來講委員也知道過去我們的高中生\n\n6\n00:01:51,766 --> 00:01:51,786\n好﹗\n\n7\n00:02:14,513 --> 00:02:19,856\n謝謝副部長的說明我們回過來看權動法我也想要請副部長回應我的解讀這麼正確在90年修法的時候呢第4條談到動員準備事項要有中央各個機關還有直線式縣市政府納入年度施政計劃推動也就是說他本來就要立場的進行我們到了第5條來看他甚至把行政動員的準備呢分為\n\n8\n00:02:38,747 --> 00:03:05,796\n行政動員準備跟軍事動員準備也就是光是準備的事項就不一樣所以事項內容不一樣主管機關也不一樣那我們來看下一頁在90年修法的時候現任的臺中市長當時是立法委員盧秀燕委員她當時就說很多人過去都有一些錯誤觀念那些錯誤觀念就是我昨天在教育文化委員會聽到在野黨委員錯誤觀念他們說全民國防就只是國防部的事情\n\n9\n00:03:06,536 --> 00:03:14,694\n他們把許多後備的工作跟全民防衛混淆在一起認為所謂的全民防衛就是後備系統當時的盧委員他說這是錯的\n\n10\n00:03:17,338 --> 00:03:18,078\n我完全同意委員的看法\n\n11\n00:03:43,926 --> 00:04:05,007\n所以如果這樣的看法您也認同而且您也覺得這樣的說法我們可以協助釐清不要讓家長的話那我們國防部這邊是不是要協同教育部做更多積極的討論因為昨天教育部長已經致歉了那剛剛國防部長好像也說嚴議可能可以取消可是我站在全民防衛如同剛剛\n\n12\n00:04:06,764 --> 00:04:23,988\n吳修彥委員說的,他包含了人力、物力、經費、電力還有各種資源,我們好像不應該只是所謂的延逸取消,或者是只是致歉,就可以解決這個恐慌。我們部長的意思,我回答一下,部長剛才說,因為現在有很多繁文魯節,像比如說他要調查\n\n13\n00:04:26,329 --> 00:04:49,311\n我們學生要去填表,像這些事情反恨乳結我們都可以考量,這些反恨乳結都可以取消那至於說,內容符合法的精神,那我們要和教育部共同來研究那如果說有疑慮,那就修法,如果沒有疑慮,那應該我們教育部和我們共同來說明這個目的是為何,不要讓社會造成恐慌,是我們的責任\n\n14\n00:04:49,851 --> 00:05:05,698\n太好了我只剩20秒所以我得到了副部長您的允諾我們會積極跟教育部來共同研議解決家長的恐慌因為過度錯誤的訊息不斷的在民間散播我們來自教育文化委員會我們要表達我們的提醒那也謝謝副部長之後我們會再跟教育部還有國防部積極的討論\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9660\t19972\t副部長,我想副部長知道我要問什麼,青年扶持情同意書造成了非常多家長的恐慌,昨天非常多在野黨委員在我所在的教育文化委員會\n20993\t37020\t也接輪上場齁那所有質詢呢交易部有他們的立場但是我想我還是要來這邊問一下我們國防部這邊的狀態但是我想我會有個人的理解跟解釋我想要請教一下國防部如果我們在這個同意書上面我們看到的寫法是說\n37880\t38160\t：陳培瑜\n57368\t85685\t副部長你覺得為什麼會有這麼多在野黨委員認為這個是所謂的要把孩子送上戰場這樣的說法製造人民的恐慌那我們國防部要不要有一些說法來回應他們的恐慌謝謝委員指導我想國防部在過去等於這個我們講在全民國防教育是一個大家都應該要了解的那對社區的付出和關懷也是需要全民來有的共識\n86866\t111085\t那過去國防部所做的這些事情事實上來講就是希望在這種教育的情況下能夠讓我們的高中生他能夠保護自己保護校區的安全那這是什麼這是對於自己是有幫助的而不是說今天叫他拿了槍去上戰場這個是完全是不同的立場所以在教育訓練上來講委員也知道過去我們的高中生\n111766\t111786\t好﹗\n134513\t139856\t謝謝副部長的說明我們回過來看權動法我也想要請副部長回應我的解讀這麼正確在90年修法的時候呢第4條談到動員準備事項要有中央各個機關還有直線式縣市政府納入年度施政計劃推動也就是說他本來就要立場的進行我們到了第5條來看他甚至把行政動員的準備呢分為\n158747\t185796\t行政動員準備跟軍事動員準備也就是光是準備的事項就不一樣所以事項內容不一樣主管機關也不一樣那我們來看下一頁在90年修法的時候現任的臺中市長當時是立法委員盧秀燕委員她當時就說很多人過去都有一些錯誤觀念那些錯誤觀念就是我昨天在教育文化委員會聽到在野黨委員錯誤觀念他們說全民國防就只是國防部的事情\n186536\t194694\t他們把許多後備的工作跟全民防衛混淆在一起認為所謂的全民防衛就是後備系統當時的盧委員他說這是錯的\n197338\t198078\t我完全同意委員的看法\n223926\t245007\t所以如果這樣的看法您也認同而且您也覺得這樣的說法我們可以協助釐清不要讓家長的話那我們國防部這邊是不是要協同教育部做更多積極的討論因為昨天教育部長已經致歉了那剛剛國防部長好像也說嚴議可能可以取消可是我站在全民防衛如同剛剛\n246764\t263988\t吳修彥委員說的,他包含了人力、物力、經費、電力還有各種資源,我們好像不應該只是所謂的延逸取消,或者是只是致歉,就可以解決這個恐慌。我們部長的意思,我回答一下,部長剛才說,因為現在有很多繁文魯節,像比如說他要調查\n266329\t289311\t我們學生要去填表,像這些事情反恨乳結我們都可以考量,這些反恨乳結都可以取消那至於說,內容符合法的精神,那我們要和教育部共同來研究那如果說有疑慮,那就修法,如果沒有疑慮,那應該我們教育部和我們共同來說明這個目的是為何,不要讓社會造成恐慌,是我們的責任\n289851\t305698\t太好了我只剩20秒所以我得到了副部長您的允諾我們會積極跟教育部來共同研議解決家長的恐慌因為過度錯誤的訊息不斷的在民間散播我們來自教育文化委員會我們要表達我們的提醒那也謝謝副部長之後我們會再跟教育部還有國防部積極的討論\n","txt":"副部長,我想副部長知道我要問什麼,青年扶持情同意書造成了非常多家長的恐慌,昨天非常多在野黨委員在我所在的教育文化委員會\n也接輪上場齁那所有質詢呢交易部有他們的立場但是我想我還是要來這邊問一下我們國防部這邊的狀態但是我想我會有個人的理解跟解釋我想要請教一下國防部如果我們在這個同意書上面我們看到的寫法是說\n：陳培瑜\n副部長你覺得為什麼會有這麼多在野黨委員認為這個是所謂的要把孩子送上戰場這樣的說法製造人民的恐慌那我們國防部要不要有一些說法來回應他們的恐慌謝謝委員指導我想國防部在過去等於這個我們講在全民國防教育是一個大家都應該要了解的那對社區的付出和關懷也是需要全民來有的共識\n那過去國防部所做的這些事情事實上來講就是希望在這種教育的情況下能夠讓我們的高中生他能夠保護自己保護校區的安全那這是什麼這是對於自己是有幫助的而不是說今天叫他拿了槍去上戰場這個是完全是不同的立場所以在教育訓練上來講委員也知道過去我們的高中生\n好﹗\n謝謝副部長的說明我們回過來看權動法我也想要請副部長回應我的解讀這麼正確在90年修法的時候呢第4條談到動員準備事項要有中央各個機關還有直線式縣市政府納入年度施政計劃推動也就是說他本來就要立場的進行我們到了第5條來看他甚至把行政動員的準備呢分為\n行政動員準備跟軍事動員準備也就是光是準備的事項就不一樣所以事項內容不一樣主管機關也不一樣那我們來看下一頁在90年修法的時候現任的臺中市長當時是立法委員盧秀燕委員她當時就說很多人過去都有一些錯誤觀念那些錯誤觀念就是我昨天在教育文化委員會聽到在野黨委員錯誤觀念他們說全民國防就只是國防部的事情\n他們把許多後備的工作跟全民防衛混淆在一起認為所謂的全民防衛就是後備系統當時的盧委員他說這是錯的\n我完全同意委員的看法\n所以如果這樣的看法您也認同而且您也覺得這樣的說法我們可以協助釐清不要讓家長的話那我們國防部這邊是不是要協同教育部做更多積極的討論因為昨天教育部長已經致歉了那剛剛國防部長好像也說嚴議可能可以取消可是我站在全民防衛如同剛剛\n吳修彥委員說的,他包含了人力、物力、經費、電力還有各種資源,我們好像不應該只是所謂的延逸取消,或者是只是致歉,就可以解決這個恐慌。我們部長的意思,我回答一下,部長剛才說,因為現在有很多繁文魯節,像比如說他要調查\n我們學生要去填表,像這些事情反恨乳結我們都可以考量,這些反恨乳結都可以取消那至於說,內容符合法的精神,那我們要和教育部共同來研究那如果說有疑慮,那就修法,如果沒有疑慮,那應該我們教育部和我們共同來說明這個目的是為何,不要讓社會造成恐慌,是我們的責任\n太好了我只剩20秒所以我得到了副部長您的允諾我們會積極跟教育部來共同研議解決家長的恐慌因為過度錯誤的訊息不斷的在民間散播我們來自教育文化委員會我們要表達我們的提醒那也謝謝副部長之後我們會再跟教育部還有國防部積極的討論\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.660 --> 00:19.972\n副部長,我想副部長知道我要問什麼,青年扶持情同意書造成了非常多家長的恐慌,昨天非常多在野黨委員在我所在的教育文化委員會\n\n00:20.993 --> 00:37.020\n也接輪上場齁那所有質詢呢交易部有他們的立場但是我想我還是要來這邊問一下我們國防部這邊的狀態但是我想我會有個人的理解跟解釋我想要請教一下國防部如果我們在這個同意書上面我們看到的寫法是說\n\n00:37.880 --> 00:38.160\n：陳培瑜\n\n00:57.368 --> 01:25.685\n副部長你覺得為什麼會有這麼多在野黨委員認為這個是所謂的要把孩子送上戰場這樣的說法製造人民的恐慌那我們國防部要不要有一些說法來回應他們的恐慌謝謝委員指導我想國防部在過去等於這個我們講在全民國防教育是一個大家都應該要了解的那對社區的付出和關懷也是需要全民來有的共識\n\n01:26.866 --> 01:51.085\n那過去國防部所做的這些事情事實上來講就是希望在這種教育的情況下能夠讓我們的高中生他能夠保護自己保護校區的安全那這是什麼這是對於自己是有幫助的而不是說今天叫他拿了槍去上戰場這個是完全是不同的立場所以在教育訓練上來講委員也知道過去我們的高中生\n\n01:51.766 --> 01:51.786\n好﹗\n\n02:14.513 --> 02:19.856\n謝謝副部長的說明我們回過來看權動法我也想要請副部長回應我的解讀這麼正確在90年修法的時候呢第4條談到動員準備事項要有中央各個機關還有直線式縣市政府納入年度施政計劃推動也就是說他本來就要立場的進行我們到了第5條來看他甚至把行政動員的準備呢分為\n\n02:38.747 --> 03:05.796\n行政動員準備跟軍事動員準備也就是光是準備的事項就不一樣所以事項內容不一樣主管機關也不一樣那我們來看下一頁在90年修法的時候現任的臺中市長當時是立法委員盧秀燕委員她當時就說很多人過去都有一些錯誤觀念那些錯誤觀念就是我昨天在教育文化委員會聽到在野黨委員錯誤觀念他們說全民國防就只是國防部的事情\n\n03:06.536 --> 03:14.694\n他們把許多後備的工作跟全民防衛混淆在一起認為所謂的全民防衛就是後備系統當時的盧委員他說這是錯的\n\n03:17.338 --> 03:18.078\n我完全同意委員的看法\n\n03:43.926 --> 04:05.007\n所以如果這樣的看法您也認同而且您也覺得這樣的說法我們可以協助釐清不要讓家長的話那我們國防部這邊是不是要協同教育部做更多積極的討論因為昨天教育部長已經致歉了那剛剛國防部長好像也說嚴議可能可以取消可是我站在全民防衛如同剛剛\n\n04:06.764 --> 04:23.988\n吳修彥委員說的,他包含了人力、物力、經費、電力還有各種資源,我們好像不應該只是所謂的延逸取消,或者是只是致歉,就可以解決這個恐慌。我們部長的意思,我回答一下,部長剛才說,因為現在有很多繁文魯節,像比如說他要調查\n\n04:26.329 --> 04:49.311\n我們學生要去填表,像這些事情反恨乳結我們都可以考量,這些反恨乳結都可以取消那至於說,內容符合法的精神,那我們要和教育部共同來研究那如果說有疑慮,那就修法,如果沒有疑慮,那應該我們教育部和我們共同來說明這個目的是為何,不要讓社會造成恐慌,是我們的責任\n\n04:49.851 --> 05:05.698\n太好了我只剩20秒所以我得到了副部長您的允諾我們會積極跟教育部來共同研議解決家長的恐慌因為過度錯誤的訊息不斷的在民間散播我們來自教育文化委員會我們要表達我們的提醒那也謝謝副部長之後我們會再跟教育部還有國防部積極的討論\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.66,"end":19.972,"text":"副部長,我想副部長知道我要問什麼,青年扶持情同意書造成了非常多家長的恐慌,昨天非常多在野黨委員在我所在的教育文化委員會"},{"start":20.993,"end":37.02,"text":"也接輪上場齁那所有質詢呢交易部有他們的立場但是我想我還是要來這邊問一下我們國防部這邊的狀態但是我想我會有個人的理解跟解釋我想要請教一下國防部如果我們在這個同意書上面我們看到的寫法是說"},{"start":37.88,"end":38.16,"text":"：陳培瑜"},{"start":57.368,"end":85.685,"text":"副部長你覺得為什麼會有這麼多在野黨委員認為這個是所謂的要把孩子送上戰場這樣的說法製造人民的恐慌那我們國防部要不要有一些說法來回應他們的恐慌謝謝委員指導我想國防部在過去等於這個我們講在全民國防教育是一個大家都應該要了解的那對社區的付出和關懷也是需要全民來有的共識"},{"start":86.866,"end":111.085,"text":"那過去國防部所做的這些事情事實上來講就是希望在這種教育的情況下能夠讓我們的高中生他能夠保護自己保護校區的安全那這是什麼這是對於自己是有幫助的而不是說今天叫他拿了槍去上戰場這個是完全是不同的立場所以在教育訓練上來講委員也知道過去我們的高中生"},{"start":111.766,"end":111.786,"text":"好﹗"},{"start":134.513,"end":139.856,"text":"謝謝副部長的說明我們回過來看權動法我也想要請副部長回應我的解讀這麼正確在90年修法的時候呢第4條談到動員準備事項要有中央各個機關還有直線式縣市政府納入年度施政計劃推動也就是說他本來就要立場的進行我們到了第5條來看他甚至把行政動員的準備呢分為"},{"start":158.747,"end":185.796,"text":"行政動員準備跟軍事動員準備也就是光是準備的事項就不一樣所以事項內容不一樣主管機關也不一樣那我們來看下一頁在90年修法的時候現任的臺中市長當時是立法委員盧秀燕委員她當時就說很多人過去都有一些錯誤觀念那些錯誤觀念就是我昨天在教育文化委員會聽到在野黨委員錯誤觀念他們說全民國防就只是國防部的事情"},{"start":186.536,"end":194.694,"text":"他們把許多後備的工作跟全民防衛混淆在一起認為所謂的全民防衛就是後備系統當時的盧委員他說這是錯的"},{"start":197.338,"end":198.078,"text":"我完全同意委員的看法"},{"start":223.926,"end":245.007,"text":"所以如果這樣的看法您也認同而且您也覺得這樣的說法我們可以協助釐清不要讓家長的話那我們國防部這邊是不是要協同教育部做更多積極的討論因為昨天教育部長已經致歉了那剛剛國防部長好像也說嚴議可能可以取消可是我站在全民防衛如同剛剛"},{"start":246.764,"end":263.988,"text":"吳修彥委員說的,他包含了人力、物力、經費、電力還有各種資源,我們好像不應該只是所謂的延逸取消,或者是只是致歉,就可以解決這個恐慌。我們部長的意思,我回答一下,部長剛才說,因為現在有很多繁文魯節,像比如說他要調查"},{"start":266.329,"end":289.311,"text":"我們學生要去填表,像這些事情反恨乳結我們都可以考量,這些反恨乳結都可以取消那至於說,內容符合法的精神,那我們要和教育部共同來研究那如果說有疑慮,那就修法,如果沒有疑慮,那應該我們教育部和我們共同來說明這個目的是為何,不要讓社會造成恐慌,是我們的責任"},{"start":289.851,"end":305.698,"text":"太好了我只剩20秒所以我得到了副部長您的允諾我們會積極跟教育部來共同研議解決家長的恐慌因為過度錯誤的訊息不斷的在民間散播我們來自教育文化委員會我們要表達我們的提醒那也謝謝副部長之後我們會再跟教育部還有國防部積極的討論"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":807,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（12時28分）謝謝主席，有請副部長還有全動署。"],["主席：請副部長跟白署長。全動署……"],["陳委員培瑜：全動署有來嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：陳委員好，這是我們林執行長。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝副部長。我想副部長知道我要問什麼，青年服勤同意書造成非常多家長的恐慌，昨天也有非常多在野黨委員在我所在的教育及文化委員會接輪上場，面對所有的質詢，教育部都有他們的立場，但是我想我還是要來這邊問一下國防部的狀態，也有我個人的理解跟解釋想要請教一下國防部。如果我們在同意書上看到的寫法是協助市政府避難引導、社區關懷、公共服務還有行政支援等勤務，在學校的教育階段就可以完成相關的教育訓練還有演習，以便在災難發生的時候可以發揮校園安全、自救、救人的功能。如果解讀是這樣，副部長，你覺得為什麼會有這麼多在野黨委員認為這是所謂要把孩子送上戰場這樣的說法、製造人民的恐慌？國防部要不要有一些說法回應他們的恐慌？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：好，謝謝委員指導。我想國防部本於全民國防教育是大家都應該了解的，對社區的付出和關懷也是全民都需要有的共識，過去國防部所做的這些事情事實上就是希望在這種教育的情況下，讓我們的高中生能夠保護自己、保護校區的安全。這是什麼？這是對自己有幫助的，而不是今天叫他拿了槍去上戰場，完全是不同的立場。","就教育訓練上來講，委員也知道，過去高中生教育訓練中的軍事教育，甚至大學的軍事教育是要修學分、還有課程的，基於此，我們只不過希望每一個國民透過全民國防教育能夠自己保護自己，這是從全民國防教育出發，沒有牽扯到任何戰爭手段。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝副部長的說明。我們回過頭來看全動法，我也想要請副部長回應我的解讀正不正確。在90年修法的時候，第四條談到動員準備事項要由中央各機關及直轄市、縣（市）政府納入年度施政計畫推動，也就是說本來就要例常地進行。我們到第五條來看，它甚至把行政動員準備分為行政動員準備跟軍事動員準備，也就是光是準備的事項就不一樣，所以事項內容不一樣，主管機關也不一樣。","我們來看下一頁。在90年修法的時候，現任臺中市長、當時的立法委員──盧秀燕委員就說很多人過去都有一些錯誤觀念，那些錯誤觀念就是我昨天在教育及文化委員會聽到在野黨委員的錯誤觀念，他們說全民國防就只是國防部的事情，他們把許多後備的工作跟全民防衛混淆在一起，認為所謂的全民防衛就是後備系統，而當時的盧委員說這是錯的，應該要包含人力、物力、經費、電力以及各種資源都算是全民防衛的範疇。如果這個說法到現在還適用，如同副部長您剛剛說的，這次服勤同意書所造成的恐慌是不是還要回到民防法還有災防法，合在一起來看、一起來解讀全動署的任務才會完整？我以上這樣的解讀是對的嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：我完全同意委員的看法。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，如果這樣的看法您也認同，而且您也覺得這樣的說法可以協助釐清、不要讓家長恐慌……"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是的、是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：那國防部這邊是不是要協同教育部做更多積極的討論？因為昨天教育部長已經致歉了，剛剛國防部長好像也說「研議」可能可以取消。可是我認為站在全民防衛，如同剛剛所提盧秀燕委員說的，包含了人力、物力、經費、電力還有各種資源，好像不應該只是所謂的研議取消或只是致歉就可以解決這個恐慌。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：關於我們部長的意思，我回答一下。部長剛剛的意思是說，因為現在有很多繁文縟節啦！比如說調查、學生要填表，像這些事情、繁文縟節，我們都可以考量，這些繁文縟節都可以取消。至於內容須符合法的精神，那我們要和教育部共同研究，如果有疑慮，那就修法，如果沒有疑慮，那應該由教育部和我們共同來說明這個目的為何，不要讓社會造成恐慌是我們的責任。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，太好了！我只剩20秒，所以我得到了副部長的允諾，就是會積極跟教育部共同研議，解決家長的恐慌？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是的、是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：因為過度錯誤的訊息不斷地在民間散播，我們來自教育及文化委員會，就要表達我們的提醒。也謝謝副部長，之後我們會再跟教育部還有國防部積極地討論，好嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員，你是今天時間控制最完美的，歡迎再來、歡迎常來。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來進行詢答的委員是徐富癸委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","洪申翰","林憶君","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林岱樺","鍾佳濱","馬文君","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","徐富癸","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉建國"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00001"}}}