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40.843, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 40.843, \"end\": 41.024, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"酒\", \"start\": 41.024, \"end\": 41.484, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"駕\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 41.484, \"end\": 42.005, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 42.005, \"end\": 42.105, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 42.105, \"end\": 42.585, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"酒\", \"start\": 42.585, \"end\": 42.966, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"駕\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 42.966, \"end\": 43.146, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 43.146, \"end\": 43.487, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 43.487, \"end\": 43.807, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"忍\", \"start\": 43.807, \"end\": 44.327, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 44.327, \"end\": 44.548, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"無\", 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{\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 49.389, \"end\": 54.892, \"text\": \"我覺得這個部分在法規條文上面這個就完全是交通部如果能夠率先來做定調一個方向立法院絕對配合因為這件事情比酒駕還要多出6倍這個數字是很難令人\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 49.389, \"end\": 49.529, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 49.529, \"end\": 49.649, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 49.649, \"end\": 49.709, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 49.709, \"end\": 49.729, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 49.729, \"end\": 49.929, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 49.929, \"end\": 50.05, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 50.05, \"end\": 50.21, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 50.21, \"end\": 50.29, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 50.29, \"end\": 50.31, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 50.31, \"end\": 50.33, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 50.33, \"end\": 50.35, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 50.35, \"end\": 50.49, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 50.49, \"end\": 50.61, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 50.61, \"end\": 50.69, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 50.69, \"end\": 50.71, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 50.71, \"end\": 50.77, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 50.77, \"end\": 50.95, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 50.95, \"end\": 51.01, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 51.01, \"end\": 51.03, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 51.03, \"end\": 51.41, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 51.41, \"end\": 51.45, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 51.45, \"end\": 51.55, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 51.55, \"end\": 51.59, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 51.59, \"end\": 51.771, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 51.771, \"end\": 51.871, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 51.871, \"end\": 51.991, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 51.991, \"end\": 52.011, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 52.011, \"end\": 52.131, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 52.131, \"end\": 52.391, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 52.391, \"end\": 52.651, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 52.651, \"end\": 52.891, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 52.891, \"end\": 52.911, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 52.911, \"end\": 53.071, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 53.071, \"end\": 53.091, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 53.091, \"end\": 53.111, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 53.111, \"end\": 53.171, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"酒\", \"start\": 53.171, \"end\": 53.672, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"駕\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 53.672, \"end\": 53.792, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 53.792, \"end\": 53.832, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 53.832, \"end\": 53.872, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"倍\", \"start\": 53.872, \"end\": 54.112, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 54.112, \"end\": 54.632, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 54.632, \"end\": 54.752, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 54.752, \"end\": 54.852, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 54.852, \"end\": 54.872, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 54.872, \"end\": 54.892, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 72.683, \"end\": 72.703, \"text\": \"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 72.683, \"end\": 72.703, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}]}, {\"start\": 89.079, \"end\": 118.465, \"text\": \"報告委員,台鐵的部分,我們有承諾過在春節之前不漲價。對,不漲,春節之前,現在目前距離春節只有3個月,你知道我們保久乳還可以保存6個月,那你這個3個月,說實話你別保久乳還不足誒,是不是?而且你應應電價的這個部分裡面調高,但是剛剛張家滬居委員也特別提到了,因為我們知道要為台鐵的基層來好好的講一下話,董座,你知道董座為什麼會加薪嗎?他加薪的理由是什麼?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 89.079, \"end\": 90.399, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 90.399, \"end\": 91.379, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 91.379, \"end\": 92.06, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 92.06, \"end\": 92.16, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 92.16, \"end\": 92.4, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 92.4, \"end\": 92.8, 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\"start\": 923.875, \"end\": 923.895, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:01,114\n麻煩再請左院長及交通部備詢。\n\n2\n00:00:09,912 --> 00:00:36,519\n科委員好院長好部長好我想昨天在我們東湖發生少年無照駕駛一個非常遺憾的一個事件我想更要讓我們數字裡面讓我們覺得更驚訝的是根據交通部的統計每年大概有30萬到40萬是有交通事故的但是有5萬是屬於無照這樣的一個駕駛而且平均會造成600人死亡而且還有6萬多人受傷最重要的是\n\n3\n00:00:37,139 --> 00:00:48,813\n此上的人數竟然是酒駕的6倍!我們再跟酒駕來比,過去我們說酒駕是零容忍,那無照呢?無照呢?無照駕駛又是如何呢?\n\n4\n00:00:49,389 --> 00:00:54,892\n我覺得這個部分在法規條文上面這個就完全是交通部如果能夠率先來做定調一個方向立法院絕對配合因為這件事情比酒駕還要多出6倍這個數字是很難令人\n\n5\n00:01:12,683 --> 00:01:12,703\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n\n6\n00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:58,465\n報告委員,台鐵的部分,我們有承諾過在春節之前不漲價。對,不漲,春節之前,現在目前距離春節只有3個月,你知道我們保久乳還可以保存6個月,那你這個3個月,說實話你別保久乳還不足誒,是不是?而且你應應電價的這個部分裡面調高,但是剛剛張家滬居委員也特別提到了,因為我們知道要為台鐵的基層來好好的講一下話,董座,你知道董座為什麼會加薪嗎?他加薪的理由是什麼?\n\n7\n00:01:59,085 --> 00:02:01,526\n當董做的薪資到19總計到18的時候靈鬼作業危險的今天每個小時只有40塊錢只有40塊錢\n\n8\n00:02:24,292 --> 00:02:39,855\n這對所有的基層員工來說真是情何以堪,我們再來看一下,而且呢,剛剛部長也特別提到了,你們要加薪,然後希望我們這台鐵的這個基層能夠趕上國營的事業,其實還是有很大段的一個理由的啊,我們來看一下下面一頁啊,你看,\n\n9\n00:02:40,436 --> 00:02:43,498\n三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n10\n00:02:57,145 --> 00:02:57,165\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、\n\n11\n00:03:19,401 --> 00:03:23,285\n報告委員,這個才剛送到院長那邊啦,因為我們跟人總那邊需要一個協調。這個部分我們很努力,然後也很快會達成,所以請委員放心,在講業務員的部分快會完成。\n\n12\n00:03:43,704 --> 00:04:03,085\n關於罷工怎麼辦,我們來看一下,因為時間有限了,觀光產業真的是一個鏟子,也收到非常多觀光,台灣這麼美麗的寶島。各位,你知道7月的時候我們人數是衝破150萬出國去,這比去年還是多了27%,而且你看一下,但是我們國內的旅遊,你看我們的住房率,平均的房價,\n\n13\n00:04:03,666 --> 00:04:03,846\n李卓人議員\n\n14\n00:04:33,786 --> 00:04:48,323\n不管是雲嘉南、陶竹苗,他們整個業績是完全消退的。那我也知道部長你最近又提出了一個所謂的獎勵發案對旅行社等等之類的,但是我永遠認為我們的觀光業要振興,不應該是用只有砸錢的方法。\n\n15\n00:04:48,663 --> 00:04:49,123\n這不是我們設定目標的主要目的吧?\n\n16\n00:05:16,448 --> 00:05:16,588\n為什麼不...\n\n17\n00:05:43,164 --> 00:06:06,710\n部長謝謝但是院長我還是要告訴你為什麼我覺得這件事情非常的重要因為我們大家有個很大的指標叫做瑞士洛桑管理學院公佈的你知道我們台灣在IMD的世界競爭力排名其實不錯每年都在進步它有四個面向但是其中一個很大面向叫經濟層面經濟層面裡面我們是四個面向裡面其實最差的這是你非常重視的經濟面向而且經濟面向裡面有十個指標拍謝\n\n18\n00:06:08,010 --> 00:06:21,744\n十個指標當中呢,就是觀光指標最糟糕。64個全世界的經濟體當中,我們台灣只贏了4個。所以表示我們的觀光是拖垮了我們整個經濟的面向。所以觀光有多麼重要,不是嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:21,744 --> 00:06:26,869\n然後呢,我們提出來,然後我們也把觀光成立數了。但是數有沒有辦法把我們的觀光產業變得比較好呢?\n\n20\n00:06:26,869 --> 00:06:26,909\n你看。\n\n21\n00:06:29,872 --> 00:06:30,132\n主席\n\n22\n00:07:01,193 --> 00:07:03,034\n我會希望觀光署跟國內一些觀光的產業甚至觀光協會每年我們的觀光旅展都非常的熱鬧\n\n23\n00:07:22,568 --> 00:07:48,697\n但是數據會縮化嘛,就是旅遊業,對啦,但是就是會縮化,然後我告訴你啊,是,是,因為時間關係齁,你看我們現在的航點啊,高雄小港機場的航點啊,只恢復在一起的七成到八成,雖然有非常多,你看下面有非常多,大家非常努力的,然後最近的聯合航空有沒有,部長你應該關切到了,他也公開宣布說明年7月要到我們高雄來啊,啊你們,你們交通部有沒有很積極?\n\n24\n00:07:49,719 --> 00:08:17,274\n當然很積極,現在聯合航空已經來跟我們申請。沒有啊,部長,你的資訊有落差,我昨天還夢過民航局,目前為止聯合航空還沒有遞書申請表。他給我的資料是10月16日上午。他還沒有介紹,所以我覺得部長我們要積極一點,我們要更積極一點,讓我們只能夠飛到美國是飛夢市好不好,這點非常的重要。人家遞書改懶制,人家已經公開宣布了,你交通部就不能坐等,你就要好好的去跟人家好好的接洽,這是我認為最重要的好不好。\n\n25\n00:08:18,274 --> 00:08:41,891\n太多委員支持我們會把小港機場再有系統有計劃性的一定要的啦現在去小港到桃園每個都往桃園然後還有大包小包連桃園下了高鐵之後要到那個機場裡面的我們都還沒有好好的這個部分所以請委員要支持我們各個年度的這樣公共建設公共建設沒有問題啦把玉山編族公共建設我們都不會擋啦院長所以玉山要趕快過我們明年才可以小港機場的\n\n26\n00:08:43,011 --> 00:09:12,120\n公共建設不會擋啦,救命救災前不會擋啊,但是先把我們該有的部分面組啦。現在我都沒有辦法答應你啊。好,院長來啦,先來看看啦,我們還是回到我們這個高雄啊,這個高鐵難言啊,我說實在的,這個件事情我非常的清楚,因為在本席,不管從第九任,或者是兩年前在高雄市長的這個層面當中,我們就不斷,我相信只是大家非常的納悶啊,過去信誓旦旦,不管是在蘇院長,或者在任何人,信誓旦旦的告訴我們大家,\n\n27\n00:09:12,580 --> 00:09:13,461\n左營案左營案\n\n28\n00:09:23,973 --> 00:09:29,458\n現在也還沒有真正的定案還沒有定案那左營案是因為很多的交通專家跟地方人士認為說這個車到左營以後要往屏東走他必須有一個倒退路所以大家認為不好\n\n29\n00:09:45,732 --> 00:10:05,310\n但高雄案就是因為他要用淺鈍的工法還是多少少影響到現在的交通狀況那一定的因為你這個黑暗期是有嘛兩者之間所以到現在決定怎麼樣再拖下去怎麼樣但是院長我在利用這個時間我覺得我們還是要把歷史說一下說實在的高雄發案我現在聽到有些立委又開始在馬維拉了\n\n30\n00:10:06,511 --> 00:10:35,917\n我親自問過葉部長﹖交通部長﹖他那個時候並沒有否決所謂的高雄案﹖他們那時候只是經過審慎的評估﹖認為那時候正在從事所謂的鐵路地下化﹖如果高鐵還要經過高雄﹖兩層並行﹖不管在技術上﹖在各方面裏面﹖是比較難行的﹖所以並沒有否決高雄案﹖只是先後的次序當中﹖現在每個人提到萬事﹖為什麼那個高雄案為什麼每個人還提到說十幾年前﹖萬一馬政府實在通過﹖現在就沒事了﹖院長你還附和﹖\n\n31\n00:10:36,437 --> 00:10:37,779\n我只是要提醒,好,那我們就把這個責任清楚。\n\n32\n00:10:53,500 --> 00:11:18,503\n當初的葉部長也提出而且當初葉部長所提出的理由是經過審慎的報告跟現在的鐵道局所做的報告有什麼差別嗎?有什麼差別嗎?你們那時候很多人把他罵得要死只管他那時候所提出的報告跟現在鐵道局跟蔡政府不是賴政府是蔡政府的鐵道局其實都是一樣的所以不要是國民黨提出來就好像有問題要追溯到過去蔡政府提出來大家就覺得沒有意見\n\n33\n00:11:19,204 --> 00:11:20,986\n部長,你有沒有看過2019年的評估報告?有關於高雄安你有沒有看過?\n\n34\n00:11:39,117 --> 00:11:55,084\n因為我沒有提出一個非常清楚的有關於高雄案的這樣子一個報告,因為你現在告訴我們就是說,你有沒有看過,你有沒有仔細看過他的屏幕好不好?你沒有看過,你要看一下,因為你現在告訴我們現在是要用選對是一種新的做法,是不是?你那時候有特別提到。\n\n35\n00:11:55,744 --> 00:12:09,597\n現在潛盾的這個技術會比過去更好一些。實際上2019年的時候但是我還是要提醒在2019年的時候《蘋果報告》裡面就告訴大家潛盾就是一個可行所以它並不是一個新的技術那時候就已經提出來了所以我剛剛為什麼盤點\n\n36\n00:12:11,278 --> 00:12:35,741\n都已經把過去的優點跟劣點全部都已經盤點完成了,然後你告訴我,所以當初的優點為什麼現在變成不是優點,然後把整個大的方向做一些的改變,這個加加減減,對,又還沒有定案,然後到說到年底有可能,現在幾乎所有的高雄的鄉親都認為到年底,因為說實在的我們南高雄因為是這樣子的黑暗期已經少了8萬人口了,\n\n37\n00:12:37,022 --> 00:12:37,723\n其實都是說年底之前會定案。\n\n38\n00:13:06,007 --> 00:13:07,788\n我們一直都說年底之前會定案\n\n39\n00:13:36,347 --> 00:13:36,367\n三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n\n40\n00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,381\n報告委員,我們很積極的跟地方在溝通,如果我現在大膽的請教委員,你的建議呢?\n\n41\n00:14:23,403 --> 00:14:45,584\n臺北你看有板橋有臺北市長有南港你看整個所帶動的一個商圈那當然我只是很扼腕當初我提出來這個部分包括我們議員提出來這個部分還被民進黨的議員消遣你難道不知道我們如何如何就現在這一群人同樣的一批人突然站出來說高雄發言才是最好的選擇你知道對於當初所提出來贊成這個提出來的人\n\n42\n00:14:46,405 --> 00:14:47,106\n市長謝謝委員部長我們高雄案多一票\n\n43\n00:15:23,714 --> 00:15:23,895\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t1114\t麻煩再請左院長及交通部備詢。\n9912\t36519\t科委員好 院長好 部長好 我想昨天在我們東湖發生少年無照駕駛一個非常遺憾的一個事件 我想更要讓我們數字裡面讓我們覺得更驚訝的是根據交通部的統計每年大概有30萬到40萬是有交通事故的 但是有5萬是屬於無照這樣的一個駕駛 而且平均會造成600人死亡 而且還有6萬多人受傷 最重要的是\n37139\t48813\t此上的人數竟然是酒駕的6倍!我們再跟酒駕來比,過去我們說酒駕是零容忍,那無照呢?無照呢?無照駕駛又是如何呢?\n49389\t54892\t我覺得這個部分在法規條文上面這個就完全是交通部如果能夠率先來做定調一個方向立法院絕對配合因為這件事情比酒駕還要多出6倍這個數字是很難令人\n72683\t72703\t二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n89079\t118465\t報告委員,台鐵的部分,我們有承諾過在春節之前不漲價。對,不漲,春節之前,現在目前距離春節只有3個月,你知道我們保久乳還可以保存6個月,那你這個3個月,說實話你別保久乳還不足誒,是不是?而且你應應電價的這個部分裡面調高,但是剛剛張家滬居委員也特別提到了,因為我們知道要為台鐵的基層來好好的講一下話,董座,你知道董座為什麼會加薪嗎?他加薪的理由是什麼?\n119085\t121526\t當董做的薪資到19總計到18的時候 靈鬼作業危險的今天每個小時只有40塊錢 只有40塊錢\n144292\t159855\t這對所有的基層員工來說真是情何以堪,我們再來看一下,而且呢,剛剛部長也特別提到了,你們要加薪,然後希望我們這台鐵的這個基層能夠趕上國營的事業,其實還是有很大段的一個理由的啊,我們來看一下下面一頁啊,你看,\n160436\t163498\t三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n177145\t177165\t二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、\n199401\t203285\t報告委員,這個才剛送到院長那邊啦,因為我們跟人總那邊需要一個協調。這個部分我們很努力,然後也很快會達成,所以請委員放心,在講業務員的部分快會完成。\n223704\t243085\t關於罷工怎麼辦,我們來看一下,因為時間有限了,觀光產業真的是一個鏟子,也收到非常多觀光,台灣這麼美麗的寶島。各位,你知道7月的時候我們人數是衝破150萬出國去,這比去年還是多了27%,而且你看一下,但是我們國內的旅遊,你看我們的住房率,平均的房價,\n243666\t243846\t李卓人議員\n273786\t288323\t不管是雲嘉南、陶竹苗,他們整個業績是完全消退的。那我也知道部長你最近又提出了一個所謂的獎勵發案對旅行社等等之類的,但是我永遠認為我們的觀光業要振興,不應該是用只有砸錢的方法。\n288663\t289123\t這不是我們設定目標的主要目的吧?\n316448\t316588\t為什麼不...\n343164\t366710\t部長謝謝但是院長我還是要告訴你為什麼我覺得這件事情非常的重要因為我們大家有個很大的指標叫做瑞士洛桑管理學院公佈的你知道我們台灣在IMD的世界競爭力排名其實不錯每年都在進步它有四個面向但是其中一個很大面向叫經濟層面經濟層面裡面我們是四個面向裡面其實最差的這是你非常重視的經濟面向而且經濟面向裡面有十個指標拍謝\n368010\t381744\t十個指標當中呢,就是觀光指標最糟糕。 64個全世界的經濟體當中,我們台灣只贏了4個。 所以表示我們的觀光是拖垮了我們整個經濟的面向。 所以觀光有多麼重要,不是嗎?\n381744\t386869\t然後呢,我們提出來,然後我們也把觀光成立數了。 但是數有沒有辦法把我們的觀光產業變得比較好呢?\n386869\t386909\t你看。\n389872\t390132\t主席\n421193\t423034\t我會希望觀光署跟國內一些觀光的產業甚至觀光協會每年我們的觀光旅展都非常的熱鬧\n442568\t468697\t但是數據會縮化嘛,就是旅遊業,對啦,但是就是會縮化,然後我告訴你啊,是,是,因為時間關係齁,你看我們現在的航點啊,高雄小港機場的航點啊,只恢復在一起的七成到八成,雖然有非常多,你看下面有非常多,大家非常努力的,然後最近的聯合航空有沒有,部長你應該關切到了,他也公開宣布說明年7月要到我們高雄來啊,啊你們,你們交通部有沒有很積極?\n469719\t497274\t當然很積極,現在聯合航空已經來跟我們申請。沒有啊,部長,你的資訊有落差,我昨天還夢過民航局,目前為止聯合航空還沒有遞書申請表。他給我的資料是10月16日上午。他還沒有介紹,所以我覺得部長我們要積極一點,我們要更積極一點,讓我們只能夠飛到美國是飛夢市好不好,這點非常的重要。人家遞書改懶制,人家已經公開宣布了,你交通部就不能坐等,你就要好好的去跟人家好好的接洽,這是我認為最重要的好不好。\n498274\t521891\t太多委員支持我們會把小港機場再有系統有計劃性的 一定要的啦現在去小港到桃園每個都往桃園然後還有大包小包連桃園下了高鐵之後要到那個機場裡面的我們都還沒有好好的這個部分 所以請委員要支持我們各個年度的這樣公共建設 公共建設沒有問題啦把玉山編族公共建設我們都不會擋啦院長 所以玉山要趕快過我們明年才可以小港機場的\n523011\t552120\t公共建設不會擋啦,救命救災前不會擋啊,但是先把我們該有的部分面組啦。 現在我都沒有辦法答應你啊。好,院長來啦,先來看看啦,我們還是回到我們這個高雄啊,這個高鐵難言啊,我說實在的,這個件事情我非常的清楚,因為在本席,不管從第九任,或者是兩年前在高雄市長的這個層面當中,我們就不斷,我相信只是大家非常的納悶啊,過去信誓旦旦,不管是在蘇院長,或者在任何人,信誓旦旦的告訴我們大家,\n552580\t553461\t左營案 左營案\n563973\t569458\t現在也還沒有真正的定案還沒有定案那左營案是因為很多的交通專家跟地方人士認為說這個車到左營以後要往屏東走他必須有一個倒退路所以大家認為不好\n585732\t605310\t但高雄案就是因為他要用淺鈍的工法還是多少少影響到現在的交通狀況那一定的因為你這個黑暗期是有嘛兩者之間所以到現在決定怎麼樣再拖下去怎麼樣但是院長我在利用這個時間我覺得我們還是要把歷史說一下說實在的高雄發案我現在聽到有些立委又開始在馬維拉了\n606511\t635917\t我親自問過葉部長﹖交通部長﹖他那個時候並沒有否決所謂的高雄案﹖他們那時候只是經過審慎的評估﹖認為那時候正在從事所謂的鐵路地下化﹖如果高鐵還要經過高雄﹖兩層並行﹖不管在技術上﹖在各方面裏面﹖是比較難行的﹖所以並沒有否決高雄案﹖只是先後的次序當中﹖現在每個人提到萬事﹖為什麼那個高雄案為什麼每個人還提到說十幾年前﹖萬一馬政府實在通過﹖現在就沒事了﹖院長你還附和﹖\n636437\t637779\t我只是要提醒,好,那我們就把這個責任清楚。\n653500\t678503\t當初的葉部長也提出而且當初葉部長所提出的理由是經過審慎的報告跟現在的鐵道局所做的報告有什麼差別嗎?有什麼差別嗎?你們那時候很多人把他罵得要死只管他那時候所提出的報告跟現在鐵道局跟蔡政府不是賴政府是蔡政府的鐵道局其實都是一樣的所以不要是國民黨提出來就好像有問題要追溯到過去蔡政府提出來大家就覺得沒有意見\n679204\t680986\t部長,你有沒有看過2019年的評估報告?有關於高雄安你有沒有看過?\n699117\t715084\t因為我沒有提出一個非常清楚的有關於高雄案的這樣子一個報告,因為你現在告訴我們就是說,你有沒有看過,你有沒有仔細看過他的屏幕好不好?你沒有看過,你要看一下,因為你現在告訴我們現在是要用選對是一種新的做法,是不是?你那時候有特別提到。\n715744\t729597\t現在潛盾的這個技術會比過去更好一些。實際上2019年的時候但是我還是要提醒在2019年的時候《蘋果報告》裡面就告訴大家潛盾就是一個可行所以它並不是一個新的技術那時候就已經提出來了所以我剛剛為什麼盤點\n731278\t755741\t都已經把過去的優點跟劣點全部都已經盤點完成了,然後你告訴我,所以當初的優點為什麼現在變成不是優點,然後把整個大的方向做一些的改變,這個加加減減,對,又還沒有定案,然後到說到年底有可能,現在幾乎所有的高雄的鄉親都認為到年底,因為說實在的我們南高雄因為是這樣子的黑暗期已經少了8萬人口了,\n757022\t757723\t其實都是說年底之前會定案。\n786007\t787788\t我們一直都說年底之前會定案\n816347\t816367\t三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n838559\t840381\t報告委員,我們很積極的跟地方在溝通,如果我現在大膽的請教委員,你的建議呢?\n863403\t885584\t臺北你看有板橋有臺北市長有南港你看整個所帶動的一個商圈那當然我只是很扼腕當初我提出來這個部分包括我們議員提出來這個部分還被民進黨的議員消遣你難道不知道我們如何如何就現在這一群人同樣的一批人突然站出來說高雄發言才是最好的選擇你知道對於當初所提出來贊成這個提出來的人\n886405\t887106\t市長謝謝委員部長我們高雄案多一票\n923714\t923895\t主席\n","txt":"麻煩再請左院長及交通部備詢。\n科委員好 院長好 部長好 我想昨天在我們東湖發生少年無照駕駛一個非常遺憾的一個事件 我想更要讓我們數字裡面讓我們覺得更驚訝的是根據交通部的統計每年大概有30萬到40萬是有交通事故的 但是有5萬是屬於無照這樣的一個駕駛 而且平均會造成600人死亡 而且還有6萬多人受傷 最重要的是\n此上的人數竟然是酒駕的6倍!我們再跟酒駕來比,過去我們說酒駕是零容忍,那無照呢?無照呢?無照駕駛又是如何呢?\n我覺得這個部分在法規條文上面這個就完全是交通部如果能夠率先來做定調一個方向立法院絕對配合因為這件事情比酒駕還要多出6倍這個數字是很難令人\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n報告委員,台鐵的部分,我們有承諾過在春節之前不漲價。對,不漲,春節之前,現在目前距離春節只有3個月,你知道我們保久乳還可以保存6個月,那你這個3個月,說實話你別保久乳還不足誒,是不是?而且你應應電價的這個部分裡面調高,但是剛剛張家滬居委員也特別提到了,因為我們知道要為台鐵的基層來好好的講一下話,董座,你知道董座為什麼會加薪嗎?他加薪的理由是什麼?\n當董做的薪資到19總計到18的時候 靈鬼作業危險的今天每個小時只有40塊錢 只有40塊錢\n這對所有的基層員工來說真是情何以堪,我們再來看一下,而且呢,剛剛部長也特別提到了,你們要加薪,然後希望我們這台鐵的這個基層能夠趕上國營的事業,其實還是有很大段的一個理由的啊,我們來看一下下面一頁啊,你看,\n三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、\n報告委員,這個才剛送到院長那邊啦,因為我們跟人總那邊需要一個協調。這個部分我們很努力,然後也很快會達成,所以請委員放心,在講業務員的部分快會完成。\n關於罷工怎麼辦,我們來看一下,因為時間有限了,觀光產業真的是一個鏟子,也收到非常多觀光,台灣這麼美麗的寶島。各位,你知道7月的時候我們人數是衝破150萬出國去,這比去年還是多了27%,而且你看一下,但是我們國內的旅遊,你看我們的住房率,平均的房價,\n李卓人議員\n不管是雲嘉南、陶竹苗,他們整個業績是完全消退的。那我也知道部長你最近又提出了一個所謂的獎勵發案對旅行社等等之類的,但是我永遠認為我們的觀光業要振興,不應該是用只有砸錢的方法。\n這不是我們設定目標的主要目的吧?\n為什麼不...\n部長謝謝但是院長我還是要告訴你為什麼我覺得這件事情非常的重要因為我們大家有個很大的指標叫做瑞士洛桑管理學院公佈的你知道我們台灣在IMD的世界競爭力排名其實不錯每年都在進步它有四個面向但是其中一個很大面向叫經濟層面經濟層面裡面我們是四個面向裡面其實最差的這是你非常重視的經濟面向而且經濟面向裡面有十個指標拍謝\n十個指標當中呢,就是觀光指標最糟糕。 64個全世界的經濟體當中,我們台灣只贏了4個。 所以表示我們的觀光是拖垮了我們整個經濟的面向。 所以觀光有多麼重要,不是嗎?\n然後呢,我們提出來,然後我們也把觀光成立數了。 但是數有沒有辦法把我們的觀光產業變得比較好呢?\n你看。\n主席\n我會希望觀光署跟國內一些觀光的產業甚至觀光協會每年我們的觀光旅展都非常的熱鬧\n但是數據會縮化嘛,就是旅遊業,對啦,但是就是會縮化,然後我告訴你啊,是,是,因為時間關係齁,你看我們現在的航點啊,高雄小港機場的航點啊,只恢復在一起的七成到八成,雖然有非常多,你看下面有非常多,大家非常努力的,然後最近的聯合航空有沒有,部長你應該關切到了,他也公開宣布說明年7月要到我們高雄來啊,啊你們,你們交通部有沒有很積極?\n當然很積極,現在聯合航空已經來跟我們申請。沒有啊,部長,你的資訊有落差,我昨天還夢過民航局,目前為止聯合航空還沒有遞書申請表。他給我的資料是10月16日上午。他還沒有介紹,所以我覺得部長我們要積極一點,我們要更積極一點,讓我們只能夠飛到美國是飛夢市好不好,這點非常的重要。人家遞書改懶制,人家已經公開宣布了,你交通部就不能坐等,你就要好好的去跟人家好好的接洽,這是我認為最重要的好不好。\n太多委員支持我們會把小港機場再有系統有計劃性的 一定要的啦現在去小港到桃園每個都往桃園然後還有大包小包連桃園下了高鐵之後要到那個機場裡面的我們都還沒有好好的這個部分 所以請委員要支持我們各個年度的這樣公共建設 公共建設沒有問題啦把玉山編族公共建設我們都不會擋啦院長 所以玉山要趕快過我們明年才可以小港機場的\n公共建設不會擋啦,救命救災前不會擋啊,但是先把我們該有的部分面組啦。 現在我都沒有辦法答應你啊。好,院長來啦,先來看看啦,我們還是回到我們這個高雄啊,這個高鐵難言啊,我說實在的,這個件事情我非常的清楚,因為在本席,不管從第九任,或者是兩年前在高雄市長的這個層面當中,我們就不斷,我相信只是大家非常的納悶啊,過去信誓旦旦,不管是在蘇院長,或者在任何人,信誓旦旦的告訴我們大家,\n左營案 左營案\n現在也還沒有真正的定案還沒有定案那左營案是因為很多的交通專家跟地方人士認為說這個車到左營以後要往屏東走他必須有一個倒退路所以大家認為不好\n但高雄案就是因為他要用淺鈍的工法還是多少少影響到現在的交通狀況那一定的因為你這個黑暗期是有嘛兩者之間所以到現在決定怎麼樣再拖下去怎麼樣但是院長我在利用這個時間我覺得我們還是要把歷史說一下說實在的高雄發案我現在聽到有些立委又開始在馬維拉了\n我親自問過葉部長﹖交通部長﹖他那個時候並沒有否決所謂的高雄案﹖他們那時候只是經過審慎的評估﹖認為那時候正在從事所謂的鐵路地下化﹖如果高鐵還要經過高雄﹖兩層並行﹖不管在技術上﹖在各方面裏面﹖是比較難行的﹖所以並沒有否決高雄案﹖只是先後的次序當中﹖現在每個人提到萬事﹖為什麼那個高雄案為什麼每個人還提到說十幾年前﹖萬一馬政府實在通過﹖現在就沒事了﹖院長你還附和﹖\n我只是要提醒,好,那我們就把這個責任清楚。\n當初的葉部長也提出而且當初葉部長所提出的理由是經過審慎的報告跟現在的鐵道局所做的報告有什麼差別嗎?有什麼差別嗎?你們那時候很多人把他罵得要死只管他那時候所提出的報告跟現在鐵道局跟蔡政府不是賴政府是蔡政府的鐵道局其實都是一樣的所以不要是國民黨提出來就好像有問題要追溯到過去蔡政府提出來大家就覺得沒有意見\n部長,你有沒有看過2019年的評估報告?有關於高雄安你有沒有看過?\n因為我沒有提出一個非常清楚的有關於高雄案的這樣子一個報告,因為你現在告訴我們就是說,你有沒有看過,你有沒有仔細看過他的屏幕好不好?你沒有看過,你要看一下,因為你現在告訴我們現在是要用選對是一種新的做法,是不是?你那時候有特別提到。\n現在潛盾的這個技術會比過去更好一些。實際上2019年的時候但是我還是要提醒在2019年的時候《蘋果報告》裡面就告訴大家潛盾就是一個可行所以它並不是一個新的技術那時候就已經提出來了所以我剛剛為什麼盤點\n都已經把過去的優點跟劣點全部都已經盤點完成了,然後你告訴我,所以當初的優點為什麼現在變成不是優點,然後把整個大的方向做一些的改變,這個加加減減,對,又還沒有定案,然後到說到年底有可能,現在幾乎所有的高雄的鄉親都認為到年底,因為說實在的我們南高雄因為是這樣子的黑暗期已經少了8萬人口了,\n其實都是說年底之前會定案。\n我們一直都說年底之前會定案\n三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n報告委員,我們很積極的跟地方在溝通,如果我現在大膽的請教委員,你的建議呢?\n臺北你看有板橋有臺北市長有南港你看整個所帶動的一個商圈那當然我只是很扼腕當初我提出來這個部分包括我們議員提出來這個部分還被民進黨的議員消遣你難道不知道我們如何如何就現在這一群人同樣的一批人突然站出來說高雄發言才是最好的選擇你知道對於當初所提出來贊成這個提出來的人\n市長謝謝委員部長我們高雄案多一票\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:01.114\n麻煩再請左院長及交通部備詢。\n\n00:09.912 --> 00:36.519\n科委員好院長好部長好我想昨天在我們東湖發生少年無照駕駛一個非常遺憾的一個事件我想更要讓我們數字裡面讓我們覺得更驚訝的是根據交通部的統計每年大概有30萬到40萬是有交通事故的但是有5萬是屬於無照這樣的一個駕駛而且平均會造成600人死亡而且還有6萬多人受傷最重要的是\n\n00:37.139 --> 00:48.813\n此上的人數竟然是酒駕的6倍!我們再跟酒駕來比,過去我們說酒駕是零容忍,那無照呢?無照呢?無照駕駛又是如何呢?\n\n00:49.389 --> 00:54.892\n我覺得這個部分在法規條文上面這個就完全是交通部如果能夠率先來做定調一個方向立法院絕對配合因為這件事情比酒駕還要多出6倍這個數字是很難令人\n\n01:12.683 --> 01:12.703\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n\n01:29.079 --> 01:58.465\n報告委員,台鐵的部分,我們有承諾過在春節之前不漲價。對,不漲,春節之前,現在目前距離春節只有3個月,你知道我們保久乳還可以保存6個月,那你這個3個月,說實話你別保久乳還不足誒,是不是?而且你應應電價的這個部分裡面調高,但是剛剛張家滬居委員也特別提到了,因為我們知道要為台鐵的基層來好好的講一下話,董座,你知道董座為什麼會加薪嗎?他加薪的理由是什麼?\n\n01:59.085 --> 02:01.526\n當董做的薪資到19總計到18的時候靈鬼作業危險的今天每個小時只有40塊錢只有40塊錢\n\n02:24.292 --> 02:39.855\n這對所有的基層員工來說真是情何以堪,我們再來看一下,而且呢,剛剛部長也特別提到了,你們要加薪,然後希望我們這台鐵的這個基層能夠趕上國營的事業,其實還是有很大段的一個理由的啊,我們來看一下下面一頁啊,你看,\n\n02:40.436 --> 02:43.498\n三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n02:57.145 --> 02:57.165\n二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、\n\n03:19.401 --> 03:23.285\n報告委員,這個才剛送到院長那邊啦,因為我們跟人總那邊需要一個協調。這個部分我們很努力,然後也很快會達成,所以請委員放心,在講業務員的部分快會完成。\n\n03:43.704 --> 04:03.085\n關於罷工怎麼辦,我們來看一下,因為時間有限了,觀光產業真的是一個鏟子,也收到非常多觀光,台灣這麼美麗的寶島。各位,你知道7月的時候我們人數是衝破150萬出國去,這比去年還是多了27%,而且你看一下,但是我們國內的旅遊,你看我們的住房率,平均的房價,\n\n04:03.666 --> 04:03.846\n李卓人議員\n\n04:33.786 --> 04:48.323\n不管是雲嘉南、陶竹苗,他們整個業績是完全消退的。那我也知道部長你最近又提出了一個所謂的獎勵發案對旅行社等等之類的,但是我永遠認為我們的觀光業要振興,不應該是用只有砸錢的方法。\n\n04:48.663 --> 04:49.123\n這不是我們設定目標的主要目的吧?\n\n05:16.448 --> 05:16.588\n為什麼不...\n\n05:43.164 --> 06:06.710\n部長謝謝但是院長我還是要告訴你為什麼我覺得這件事情非常的重要因為我們大家有個很大的指標叫做瑞士洛桑管理學院公佈的你知道我們台灣在IMD的世界競爭力排名其實不錯每年都在進步它有四個面向但是其中一個很大面向叫經濟層面經濟層面裡面我們是四個面向裡面其實最差的這是你非常重視的經濟面向而且經濟面向裡面有十個指標拍謝\n\n06:08.010 --> 06:21.744\n十個指標當中呢,就是觀光指標最糟糕。64個全世界的經濟體當中,我們台灣只贏了4個。所以表示我們的觀光是拖垮了我們整個經濟的面向。所以觀光有多麼重要,不是嗎?\n\n06:21.744 --> 06:26.869\n然後呢,我們提出來,然後我們也把觀光成立數了。但是數有沒有辦法把我們的觀光產業變得比較好呢?\n\n06:26.869 --> 06:26.909\n你看。\n\n06:29.872 --> 06:30.132\n主席\n\n07:01.193 --> 07:03.034\n我會希望觀光署跟國內一些觀光的產業甚至觀光協會每年我們的觀光旅展都非常的熱鬧\n\n07:22.568 --> 07:48.697\n但是數據會縮化嘛,就是旅遊業,對啦,但是就是會縮化,然後我告訴你啊,是,是,因為時間關係齁,你看我們現在的航點啊,高雄小港機場的航點啊,只恢復在一起的七成到八成,雖然有非常多,你看下面有非常多,大家非常努力的,然後最近的聯合航空有沒有,部長你應該關切到了,他也公開宣布說明年7月要到我們高雄來啊,啊你們,你們交通部有沒有很積極?\n\n07:49.719 --> 08:17.274\n當然很積極,現在聯合航空已經來跟我們申請。沒有啊,部長,你的資訊有落差,我昨天還夢過民航局,目前為止聯合航空還沒有遞書申請表。他給我的資料是10月16日上午。他還沒有介紹,所以我覺得部長我們要積極一點,我們要更積極一點,讓我們只能夠飛到美國是飛夢市好不好,這點非常的重要。人家遞書改懶制,人家已經公開宣布了,你交通部就不能坐等,你就要好好的去跟人家好好的接洽,這是我認為最重要的好不好。\n\n08:18.274 --> 08:41.891\n太多委員支持我們會把小港機場再有系統有計劃性的一定要的啦現在去小港到桃園每個都往桃園然後還有大包小包連桃園下了高鐵之後要到那個機場裡面的我們都還沒有好好的這個部分所以請委員要支持我們各個年度的這樣公共建設公共建設沒有問題啦把玉山編族公共建設我們都不會擋啦院長所以玉山要趕快過我們明年才可以小港機場的\n\n08:43.011 --> 09:12.120\n公共建設不會擋啦,救命救災前不會擋啊,但是先把我們該有的部分面組啦。現在我都沒有辦法答應你啊。好,院長來啦,先來看看啦,我們還是回到我們這個高雄啊,這個高鐵難言啊,我說實在的,這個件事情我非常的清楚,因為在本席,不管從第九任,或者是兩年前在高雄市長的這個層面當中,我們就不斷,我相信只是大家非常的納悶啊,過去信誓旦旦,不管是在蘇院長,或者在任何人,信誓旦旦的告訴我們大家,\n\n09:12.580 --> 09:13.461\n左營案左營案\n\n09:23.973 --> 09:29.458\n現在也還沒有真正的定案還沒有定案那左營案是因為很多的交通專家跟地方人士認為說這個車到左營以後要往屏東走他必須有一個倒退路所以大家認為不好\n\n09:45.732 --> 10:05.310\n但高雄案就是因為他要用淺鈍的工法還是多少少影響到現在的交通狀況那一定的因為你這個黑暗期是有嘛兩者之間所以到現在決定怎麼樣再拖下去怎麼樣但是院長我在利用這個時間我覺得我們還是要把歷史說一下說實在的高雄發案我現在聽到有些立委又開始在馬維拉了\n\n10:06.511 --> 10:35.917\n我親自問過葉部長﹖交通部長﹖他那個時候並沒有否決所謂的高雄案﹖他們那時候只是經過審慎的評估﹖認為那時候正在從事所謂的鐵路地下化﹖如果高鐵還要經過高雄﹖兩層並行﹖不管在技術上﹖在各方面裏面﹖是比較難行的﹖所以並沒有否決高雄案﹖只是先後的次序當中﹖現在每個人提到萬事﹖為什麼那個高雄案為什麼每個人還提到說十幾年前﹖萬一馬政府實在通過﹖現在就沒事了﹖院長你還附和﹖\n\n10:36.437 --> 10:37.779\n我只是要提醒,好,那我們就把這個責任清楚。\n\n10:53.500 --> 11:18.503\n當初的葉部長也提出而且當初葉部長所提出的理由是經過審慎的報告跟現在的鐵道局所做的報告有什麼差別嗎?有什麼差別嗎?你們那時候很多人把他罵得要死只管他那時候所提出的報告跟現在鐵道局跟蔡政府不是賴政府是蔡政府的鐵道局其實都是一樣的所以不要是國民黨提出來就好像有問題要追溯到過去蔡政府提出來大家就覺得沒有意見\n\n11:19.204 --> 11:20.986\n部長,你有沒有看過2019年的評估報告?有關於高雄安你有沒有看過?\n\n11:39.117 --> 11:55.084\n因為我沒有提出一個非常清楚的有關於高雄案的這樣子一個報告,因為你現在告訴我們就是說,你有沒有看過,你有沒有仔細看過他的屏幕好不好?你沒有看過,你要看一下,因為你現在告訴我們現在是要用選對是一種新的做法,是不是?你那時候有特別提到。\n\n11:55.744 --> 12:09.597\n現在潛盾的這個技術會比過去更好一些。實際上2019年的時候但是我還是要提醒在2019年的時候《蘋果報告》裡面就告訴大家潛盾就是一個可行所以它並不是一個新的技術那時候就已經提出來了所以我剛剛為什麼盤點\n\n12:11.278 --> 12:35.741\n都已經把過去的優點跟劣點全部都已經盤點完成了,然後你告訴我,所以當初的優點為什麼現在變成不是優點,然後把整個大的方向做一些的改變,這個加加減減,對,又還沒有定案,然後到說到年底有可能,現在幾乎所有的高雄的鄉親都認為到年底,因為說實在的我們南高雄因為是這樣子的黑暗期已經少了8萬人口了,\n\n12:37.022 --> 12:37.723\n其實都是說年底之前會定案。\n\n13:06.007 --> 13:07.788\n我們一直都說年底之前會定案\n\n13:36.347 --> 13:36.367\n三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n\n13:58.559 --> 14:00.381\n報告委員,我們很積極的跟地方在溝通,如果我現在大膽的請教委員,你的建議呢?\n\n14:23.403 --> 14:45.584\n臺北你看有板橋有臺北市長有南港你看整個所帶動的一個商圈那當然我只是很扼腕當初我提出來這個部分包括我們議員提出來這個部分還被民進黨的議員消遣你難道不知道我們如何如何就現在這一群人同樣的一批人突然站出來說高雄發言才是最好的選擇你知道對於當初所提出來贊成這個提出來的人\n\n14:46.405 --> 14:47.106\n市長謝謝委員部長我們高雄案多一票\n\n15:23.714 --> 15:23.895\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":1.114,"text":"麻煩再請左院長及交通部備詢。"},{"start":9.912,"end":36.519,"text":"科委員好 院長好 部長好 我想昨天在我們東湖發生少年無照駕駛一個非常遺憾的一個事件 我想更要讓我們數字裡面讓我們覺得更驚訝的是根據交通部的統計每年大概有30萬到40萬是有交通事故的 但是有5萬是屬於無照這樣的一個駕駛 而且平均會造成600人死亡 而且還有6萬多人受傷 最重要的是"},{"start":37.139,"end":48.813,"text":"此上的人數竟然是酒駕的6倍!我們再跟酒駕來比,過去我們說酒駕是零容忍,那無照呢?無照呢?無照駕駛又是如何呢?"},{"start":49.389,"end":54.892,"text":"我覺得這個部分在法規條文上面這個就完全是交通部如果能夠率先來做定調一個方向立法院絕對配合因為這件事情比酒駕還要多出6倍這個數字是很難令人"},{"start":72.683,"end":72.703,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":89.079,"end":118.465,"text":"報告委員,台鐵的部分,我們有承諾過在春節之前不漲價。對,不漲,春節之前,現在目前距離春節只有3個月,你知道我們保久乳還可以保存6個月,那你這個3個月,說實話你別保久乳還不足誒,是不是?而且你應應電價的這個部分裡面調高,但是剛剛張家滬居委員也特別提到了,因為我們知道要為台鐵的基層來好好的講一下話,董座,你知道董座為什麼會加薪嗎?他加薪的理由是什麼?"},{"start":119.085,"end":121.526,"text":"當董做的薪資到19總計到18的時候 靈鬼作業危險的今天每個小時只有40塊錢 只有40塊錢"},{"start":144.292,"end":159.855,"text":"這對所有的基層員工來說真是情何以堪,我們再來看一下,而且呢,剛剛部長也特別提到了,你們要加薪,然後希望我們這台鐵的這個基層能夠趕上國營的事業,其實還是有很大段的一個理由的啊,我們來看一下下面一頁啊,你看,"},{"start":160.436,"end":163.498,"text":"三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":177.145,"end":177.165,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、40、"},{"start":199.401,"end":203.285,"text":"報告委員,這個才剛送到院長那邊啦,因為我們跟人總那邊需要一個協調。這個部分我們很努力,然後也很快會達成,所以請委員放心,在講業務員的部分快會完成。"},{"start":223.704,"end":243.085,"text":"關於罷工怎麼辦,我們來看一下,因為時間有限了,觀光產業真的是一個鏟子,也收到非常多觀光,台灣這麼美麗的寶島。各位,你知道7月的時候我們人數是衝破150萬出國去,這比去年還是多了27%,而且你看一下,但是我們國內的旅遊,你看我們的住房率,平均的房價,"},{"start":243.666,"end":243.846,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":273.786,"end":288.323,"text":"不管是雲嘉南、陶竹苗,他們整個業績是完全消退的。那我也知道部長你最近又提出了一個所謂的獎勵發案對旅行社等等之類的,但是我永遠認為我們的觀光業要振興,不應該是用只有砸錢的方法。"},{"start":288.663,"end":289.123,"text":"這不是我們設定目標的主要目的吧?"},{"start":316.448,"end":316.588,"text":"為什麼不..."},{"start":343.164,"end":366.71,"text":"部長謝謝但是院長我還是要告訴你為什麼我覺得這件事情非常的重要因為我們大家有個很大的指標叫做瑞士洛桑管理學院公佈的你知道我們台灣在IMD的世界競爭力排名其實不錯每年都在進步它有四個面向但是其中一個很大面向叫經濟層面經濟層面裡面我們是四個面向裡面其實最差的這是你非常重視的經濟面向而且經濟面向裡面有十個指標拍謝"},{"start":368.01,"end":381.744,"text":"十個指標當中呢,就是觀光指標最糟糕。 64個全世界的經濟體當中,我們台灣只贏了4個。 所以表示我們的觀光是拖垮了我們整個經濟的面向。 所以觀光有多麼重要,不是嗎?"},{"start":381.744,"end":386.869,"text":"然後呢,我們提出來,然後我們也把觀光成立數了。 但是數有沒有辦法把我們的觀光產業變得比較好呢?"},{"start":386.869,"end":386.909,"text":"你看。"},{"start":389.872,"end":390.132,"text":"主席"},{"start":421.193,"end":423.034,"text":"我會希望觀光署跟國內一些觀光的產業甚至觀光協會每年我們的觀光旅展都非常的熱鬧"},{"start":442.568,"end":468.697,"text":"但是數據會縮化嘛,就是旅遊業,對啦,但是就是會縮化,然後我告訴你啊,是,是,因為時間關係齁,你看我們現在的航點啊,高雄小港機場的航點啊,只恢復在一起的七成到八成,雖然有非常多,你看下面有非常多,大家非常努力的,然後最近的聯合航空有沒有,部長你應該關切到了,他也公開宣布說明年7月要到我們高雄來啊,啊你們,你們交通部有沒有很積極?"},{"start":469.719,"end":497.274,"text":"當然很積極,現在聯合航空已經來跟我們申請。沒有啊,部長,你的資訊有落差,我昨天還夢過民航局,目前為止聯合航空還沒有遞書申請表。他給我的資料是10月16日上午。他還沒有介紹,所以我覺得部長我們要積極一點,我們要更積極一點,讓我們只能夠飛到美國是飛夢市好不好,這點非常的重要。人家遞書改懶制,人家已經公開宣布了,你交通部就不能坐等,你就要好好的去跟人家好好的接洽,這是我認為最重要的好不好。"},{"start":498.274,"end":521.891,"text":"太多委員支持我們會把小港機場再有系統有計劃性的 一定要的啦現在去小港到桃園每個都往桃園然後還有大包小包連桃園下了高鐵之後要到那個機場裡面的我們都還沒有好好的這個部分 所以請委員要支持我們各個年度的這樣公共建設 公共建設沒有問題啦把玉山編族公共建設我們都不會擋啦院長 所以玉山要趕快過我們明年才可以小港機場的"},{"start":523.011,"end":552.12,"text":"公共建設不會擋啦,救命救災前不會擋啊,但是先把我們該有的部分面組啦。 現在我都沒有辦法答應你啊。好,院長來啦,先來看看啦,我們還是回到我們這個高雄啊,這個高鐵難言啊,我說實在的,這個件事情我非常的清楚,因為在本席,不管從第九任,或者是兩年前在高雄市長的這個層面當中,我們就不斷,我相信只是大家非常的納悶啊,過去信誓旦旦,不管是在蘇院長,或者在任何人,信誓旦旦的告訴我們大家,"},{"start":552.58,"end":553.461,"text":"左營案 左營案"},{"start":563.973,"end":569.458,"text":"現在也還沒有真正的定案還沒有定案那左營案是因為很多的交通專家跟地方人士認為說這個車到左營以後要往屏東走他必須有一個倒退路所以大家認為不好"},{"start":585.732,"end":605.31,"text":"但高雄案就是因為他要用淺鈍的工法還是多少少影響到現在的交通狀況那一定的因為你這個黑暗期是有嘛兩者之間所以到現在決定怎麼樣再拖下去怎麼樣但是院長我在利用這個時間我覺得我們還是要把歷史說一下說實在的高雄發案我現在聽到有些立委又開始在馬維拉了"},{"start":606.511,"end":635.917,"text":"我親自問過葉部長﹖交通部長﹖他那個時候並沒有否決所謂的高雄案﹖他們那時候只是經過審慎的評估﹖認為那時候正在從事所謂的鐵路地下化﹖如果高鐵還要經過高雄﹖兩層並行﹖不管在技術上﹖在各方面裏面﹖是比較難行的﹖所以並沒有否決高雄案﹖只是先後的次序當中﹖現在每個人提到萬事﹖為什麼那個高雄案為什麼每個人還提到說十幾年前﹖萬一馬政府實在通過﹖現在就沒事了﹖院長你還附和﹖"},{"start":636.437,"end":637.779,"text":"我只是要提醒,好,那我們就把這個責任清楚。"},{"start":653.5,"end":678.503,"text":"當初的葉部長也提出而且當初葉部長所提出的理由是經過審慎的報告跟現在的鐵道局所做的報告有什麼差別嗎?有什麼差別嗎?你們那時候很多人把他罵得要死只管他那時候所提出的報告跟現在鐵道局跟蔡政府不是賴政府是蔡政府的鐵道局其實都是一樣的所以不要是國民黨提出來就好像有問題要追溯到過去蔡政府提出來大家就覺得沒有意見"},{"start":679.204,"end":680.986,"text":"部長,你有沒有看過2019年的評估報告?有關於高雄安你有沒有看過?"},{"start":699.117,"end":715.084,"text":"因為我沒有提出一個非常清楚的有關於高雄案的這樣子一個報告,因為你現在告訴我們就是說,你有沒有看過,你有沒有仔細看過他的屏幕好不好?你沒有看過,你要看一下,因為你現在告訴我們現在是要用選對是一種新的做法,是不是?你那時候有特別提到。"},{"start":715.744,"end":729.597,"text":"現在潛盾的這個技術會比過去更好一些。實際上2019年的時候但是我還是要提醒在2019年的時候《蘋果報告》裡面就告訴大家潛盾就是一個可行所以它並不是一個新的技術那時候就已經提出來了所以我剛剛為什麼盤點"},{"start":731.278,"end":755.741,"text":"都已經把過去的優點跟劣點全部都已經盤點完成了,然後你告訴我,所以當初的優點為什麼現在變成不是優點,然後把整個大的方向做一些的改變,這個加加減減,對,又還沒有定案,然後到說到年底有可能,現在幾乎所有的高雄的鄉親都認為到年底,因為說實在的我們南高雄因為是這樣子的黑暗期已經少了8萬人口了,"},{"start":757.022,"end":757.723,"text":"其實都是說年底之前會定案。"},{"start":786.007,"end":787.788,"text":"我們一直都說年底之前會定案"},{"start":816.347,"end":816.367,"text":"三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":838.559,"end":840.381,"text":"報告委員,我們很積極的跟地方在溝通,如果我現在大膽的請教委員,你的建議呢?"},{"start":863.403,"end":885.584,"text":"臺北你看有板橋有臺北市長有南港你看整個所帶動的一個商圈那當然我只是很扼腕當初我提出來這個部分包括我們議員提出來這個部分還被民進黨的議員消遣你難道不知道我們如何如何就現在這一群人同樣的一批人突然站出來說高雄發言才是最好的選擇你知道對於當初所提出來贊成這個提出來的人"},{"start":886.405,"end":887.106,"text":"市長謝謝委員部長我們高雄案多一票"},{"start":923.714,"end":923.895,"text":"主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1087,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（11時44分）謝謝院長，我們是不是請卓院長跟交通部陳部長？"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長及交通部備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：柯委員好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：院長好、部長好，昨天在東湖發生少年無照駕駛非常遺憾的一個事件，我想數字裡面讓我們覺得更驚訝的是，根據交通部的統計，每年大概有30萬到40萬的交通事故，但是有5萬是屬於無照駕駛，而且平均會造成600人死亡，還有六萬多人受傷，最重要的是，死傷的人數竟然是酒駕的6倍。我們要跟酒駕來比，過去我們說酒駕是零容忍，那無照呢？無照駕駛又是如何呢？"],["陳部長世凱：無照駕駛，我們當然也是零容忍。報告委員，在去年6月，我們針對無照駕駛的罰則，有從最高1萬2,000加到2萬4,000。"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得這個部分在法規條文上面，交通部如果能夠率先來定調一個方向，立法院絕對配合，因為這件事情比酒駕還要多出6倍……"],["陳部長世凱：所以罰則應該要提高。"],["柯委員志恩：這個數字是很難令人接受的，好不好？接下來有個民生的問題，因應新電價的上路，每個人都會關切高鐵跟臺鐵會不會漲價，因為我每天的日常就是高鐵轉臺鐵，所以對我來說是非常重要的。票價會不會漲價？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，臺鐵的部分我們有承諾過，在春節之前不漲價。"],["柯委員志恩：對，部長說春節之前，目前距離春節只有3個月，你知道我們保久乳還可以保存6個月，你這3個月說實在比保久乳還不如，是不是？而且因應電價調高……剛剛張嘉郡委員也特別提到了，我們真的要為臺鐵的基層好好講一下話，董座，你知道董座為什麼會加薪嗎？他加薪的理由是什麼？記大功的理由是什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：是因為成為國營事業，所以用國營事業主持人的標準……"],["柯委員志恩：好，國營事業要加薪，如果他的這個功這個可以這樣子比的話……"],["陳部長世凱：跟其他的國營事業都一樣。"],["柯委員志恩：好啊，那我們還是要去問嘛，當你在加薪的時候，你知道我們的基層到底是什麼樣的程度？我想請院長要看一下，當董座的薪資到19萬、總經理到18萬的時候，臨軌作業危險的津貼每個小時只有40塊錢，只有40塊錢，這對所有的基層員工來說，真是情何以堪？我們再來看一下，剛剛部長也特別提到了，你們要加薪，然後希望臺鐵的基層能夠趕上國營的事業，其實還是有很大段的理由的喔！你看他的基本薪資部分，現在是卡在你們行政院，你看這個過程，528已經函報政院，到目前為止還是沒有。從前任部長到現在，你們都認為應該要調薪，但是你看看，他們常態性也不過是1,200到3,000；非常態性，我剛剛說的，每小時只有40塊，所以院長，你要不要加快速度給這些基層員工一個交代啊？卡在那邊很久了耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：這個文現在在交通部。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個才剛送到院長那邊啦！這個文才剛……"],["柯委員志恩：528已經發函了。"],["陳部長世凱：因為我們跟人總那邊需要一個協調的時間……"],["柯委員志恩：部長，請你就給出承諾，這些基層的員工非常的辛苦。"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分我們很努力，然後也很快會達成，所以請委員放心，在從業人員部分，我們很快會完成。"],["柯委員志恩：好，再麻煩，好不好？基層員工我們要顧，我很害怕我高鐵轉臺鐵的人生會因此受到影響，OK？"],["陳部長世凱：不會，不會，不會受到影響。"],["柯委員志恩：萬一罷工怎麼辦？我們來看一下，因為時間有限。觀光產業真的是一個慘字，臺灣這麼美麗的寶島，各位，你知道7月的時候，我們出國人數是衝破150萬，比去年還多了27%，但是我們國內的旅遊住房率、平均房價卻雙雙走跌，而且是雪崩式的下跌。我必須要說，我們出國人數這麼多，歷年來旅遊人次的逆差，今年是創下高紀錄，高達641萬人次，我們全部給外面的人賺錢，那我們獲得什麼？你看，花蓮的地震當然很慘，下滑超過八成多，但是國內的旅遊，民眾並沒有把不去花蓮旅遊轉到西岸來，並沒有！所以不管是雲嘉南、桃竹苗，他們整個業績是完全消退的。我也知道部長最近又提出了一個所謂的獎勵方案、推旅行社等等之類的，但是我永遠認為我們的觀光業要振興，不應該只有用砸錢的方法，還應該有更積極的方法。"],["陳部長世凱：當然。"],["柯委員志恩：最重要的是，當大家問你我們的觀光業該如何振興的時候，當然你告訴我們今年要達到1,000萬的旅客是不可能的，所以下修到750萬，但是明年你還是把它設定在1,000萬，如果整個大環境、整個制度沒有改變的話，你為什麼認為還是可以到1,000萬？你不能永遠設一個高標準，然後到年底的時候告訴我，對不起我們達不到，我們就下修，這不是設定目標的主要目的吧？"],["陳部長世凱：我們設定目標就會努力達成。報告委員，今年有一些狀況當然比較特殊，像最近颱風相對多一點，坦白說，國內的旅遊在第四季狀況會好一些，但是我們現在進入第四季遇到了颱風的狀況。之前403地震很不幸的讓我們很重要的觀光景點──太魯閣受到損害。事實上我們看到一個很重要的點，就是臺灣要有更多的觀光亮點跟景點讓國際看到，這才是重點。"],["柯委員志恩：是，部長，謝謝。但是我還是要告訴院長，為什麼我覺得這件事情非常的重要？因為有一個很大的指標，是瑞士洛桑管理學院公布的，你知道我們臺灣在IMD的世界競爭力排名其實不錯，每年都在進步，它有四個面向，其中一個很大面向叫經濟層面，其實經濟層面是我們四個面向中最差的，這是你非常重視的經濟面向，而且經濟面向裡面有10個指標，抱歉，10個指標當中就是觀光指標最糟糕。全世界64個經濟體當中，我們臺灣只贏了4個，表示我們的觀光拖垮了整個經濟面向，所以觀光有多麼重要，不是嗎？然後我們提出來，也把觀光成立「署」了，但是「署」有沒有辦法把我們的觀光產業變得比較好呢？你看，他們提出了非常多，而且把校外教學都提出來了，說實在，他們也希望校外教學不要每次都在同一個地方等等之類的，我真的要問首遊族，到底要怎麼樣？","院長你看，養殖業不行，就是班班有石斑；酪農不行，就班班有鮮奶，現在變班班有保久乳；全民防衛也找學生；現在國旅要不要變成班班出去玩啊？我們學生到底有多少的消費度啊？這個東西……"],["卓院長榮泰：大家都出去玩。"],["柯委員志恩：我是說要救觀光產業不是應該只有這樣子而已，還有非常多，觀光產業有非常多喔，你看以高雄來說，小港國際機場號稱「國際」，也做了非常多的航班，號稱是「國際」……"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望觀光署跟國內的一些觀光產業，甚至觀光協會……"],["柯委員志恩：當然是啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：每年的觀光旅展都非常的熱鬧……"],["柯委員志恩：但數據會說話嘛，就是旅遊……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是都變成是買餐券……"],["柯委員志恩：對啦，但數字就是會說話，我告訴你啊……"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望能夠多元化的經營。"],["柯委員志恩：是、是，因為時間關係，你看現在高雄小港機場的航點只恢復到疫情前的七成到八成，雖然你看簡報上面有非常多，大家非常努力。最近聯合航空，部長你應該有關切到，他們也公開宣布明年7月要到我們高雄……"],["陳部長世凱：是，明年7月要飛高雄，有這個計畫。"],["柯委員志恩：那你們交通部有沒有很積極？"],["陳部長世凱：當然積極，現在聯合航空已經來跟我們申請。"],["柯委員志恩：沒有啊，部長，你的資訊有落差，我昨天還問過民航局，目前為止聯合航空還沒有遞出申請表。"],["陳部長世凱：同仁給我的資料是10月16號向民航局……"],["柯委員志恩：他們還沒有，所以我覺得部長要更積極一點，讓我們飛到美國非夢事，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：當然，這個我們來努力。"],["柯委員志恩：這點非常重要，人家遞出橄欖枝，也公開宣布了，交通部就不能坐等，你們要好好的去接洽，這是我認為最重要的，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["柯委員志恩：這很重要。"],["卓院長榮泰：拜託委員支持，我們會把小港機場再有系統、有計畫性……"],["柯委員志恩：一定要的啦，現在小港到桃園，每個人都大包小包的往桃園，連桃園下高鐵之後要到機場都還沒有好好的……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以請委員要支持我們各個年度的公共建設，一定要讓它順利。"],["柯委員志恩：公共建設沒有問題啦，把預算編足，公共建設我們都不會擋啦，院長。"],["陳部長世凱：預算要趕快過，明年小港機場才可以……"],["柯委員志恩：公共建設不會擋啦，救命、救災錢不會擋，但是先把我們該有的部分編足。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我都沒有辦法答應你啊！"],["柯委員志恩：院長，先來看看啦，我們還是回到高雄的高鐵南延，說實在的，這件事情我非常清楚，因為本席不管是從第9任或者是兩年前在高雄市長的層面就不斷關注，只是現在大家非常的納悶，過去信誓旦旦，不管是在蘇院長或者是任何人，都信誓旦旦告訴我們左營案、左營案，怎麼賴政府上臺之後，突然就改成高雄火車站？這是我支持的，但是這個轉折點是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在……"],["柯委員志恩：以前怎麼問他們都跟我說：不可能，就是這樣，高鐵南延都告訴我左營案，怎麼你們上臺之後就突然全部變成高雄案？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，現在也還沒有真正的定案。"],["陳部長世凱：還沒有定案。"],["卓院長榮泰：左營案是因為很多的交通專家跟地方人士認為車到左營以後要往屏東走會「倒退嚕」……"],["柯委員志恩：我知道，院長，這部分我清楚……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以大家認為不好，但高雄案就是因為要用潛盾的工法，多多少少還是會影響到現在的交通狀況。"],["柯委員志恩：那一定的，因為黑暗期是有的……"],["卓院長榮泰：兩者之間……"],["柯委員志恩：所以到現在決定怎麼樣？要再拖下去？但是院長，利用這個時間，我覺得還是要把歷史說一下，說實在的，對於高雄案，我現在聽到有些立委又開始在馬維拉了。我親自問過交通部葉部長，他們那時候並沒有否決高雄案，只是經過審慎的評估，認為那時候正在從事鐵路地下化，如果高鐵還要經過高雄，兩者併行，不管在技術上、在各方面是比較難行的，所以並沒有否決高雄案，只是在於先後次序。現在每個人提到高雄案，都說十幾年前馬政府時代通過，現在就沒事了，院長你還附和！不是這樣子的！"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有這樣講過！"],["柯委員志恩：你還告訴我說，對啊，早十幾年前如果能選擇高雄案的話就應該……"],["卓院長榮泰：我是說我到高雄去，他們跟我說，早十幾年做會省很多錢。我說那我現在要趕快做，為未來的院長省一些錢。所以要趕快決定，我沒有把責任給誰。"],["柯委員志恩：我只是要提醒……好，那我們就把責任釐清楚。當初葉部長有提出，而且他提出的理由也是經過審慎評估後的報告，跟現在鐵道局所做的報告有什麼差別嗎？有什麼差別嗎？你們那時候很多人把他罵得要死，結果他那時候所提出的報告，跟現在的鐵道局、跟蔡政府，不是賴政府，是蔡政府鐵道局的報告其實都是一樣的，所以不要認為國民黨提出來的就好像有問題，要追溯到過去；蔡政府提出來的就覺得沒有意見。不要這樣，這樣是不好的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我只是在想辦法解決現在的問題。"],["柯委員志恩：是，但我還是要強調，那時候並不是這樣！而且民進黨執政了八年，如果認為高雄案很棒的話，早該實行了，不要牽拖太多。不過我還是要問一下部長，有沒有看過109年的評估報告？關於高雄案，你有沒有看過109年的報告？"],["陳部長世凱：109年的我沒有看過。"],["柯委員志恩：因為我們有提出一個非常清楚的高雄案報告，你現在告訴我們……你有沒有看過？你有沒有仔細看過評估報告？"],["陳部長世凱：109年的沒有看過。"],["柯委員志恩：你沒有看過？你要看一下，因為你告訴我們，現在是要用潛盾，是一種新的做法，是不是？你那時候有特別提到。"],["陳部長世凱：現在潛盾的技術會比過去更好一些，所以現在潛盾的範圍可以做更多。"],["柯委員志恩：我還是要提醒，事實上在109年時，評估報告裡就告訴大家，潛盾就是可行。所以它並不是新的技術，那時候就已經提出來了。"],["陳部長世凱：現在可以做得更好。"],["柯委員志恩：所以我剛剛為什麼盤點？都已經把過去的優點跟劣點全部盤點完成了，然後你告訴我，當初的優點現在變成不是優點，然後把大方向做一些改變，這個加加減減……"],["陳部長世凱：委員，還沒定案。"],["柯委員志恩：對，又還沒有定案，然後說到年底有可能……"],["陳部長世凱：我們希望年底要定案。"],["柯委員志恩：現在幾乎所有高雄的鄉親都認為年底。說實在的，南高雄因為這樣的黑暗期已經少了八萬人口，所以這對整個高雄產業來說，特別是在高雄車站附近的產業人口來說，是一件很不公平的事。好不容易有很多人認為現在的評估可能比過去好一點，高雄方案對於南高雄的振興會好一點，結果呢？以為快定案了，現在又開始了好像還沒有，到底什麼時候？到底哪個案？什麼時候可以定？可不可以告訴我們一個很明確的方式？"],["陳部長世凱：一直都說年底之前會定案。"],["柯委員志恩：年底之前？不會再改變了吧？"],["陳部長世凱：我們一直都說年底之前會定案。"],["柯委員志恩：目前距離年底剩不到兩個月時間。所以我還是要強調，澄清這些事情，包括過去左營案經過台塑，彼此之間非常接近，然後到屏東六堆，該討論的事情都有，但是我們擔心，因為我們問過那時候的行政院長，信誓旦旦，包括前交通部長林佳龍都信誓旦旦告訴我們，採用左營案才是最好的選擇，所以大家就接受事實。沒想到當高雄案又重新復活時，當然，會有不同的想法，但大家好像又看到一線生機，覺得好像已經百分之八、九十可以了，都往那一方面去了，已經開始在討論了，像如何透過潛盾的方法降低技術層面的干擾、附近的商圈到底該怎樣振興，這些都已經在討論了，然後你現在跟我說要等到年底？如果年底又沒有呢？你要讓我們等多久？這個東西對於產業發展是不行的。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們很積極在跟地方溝通。如果我現在大膽請教委員你的建議呢？"],["柯委員志恩：我兩年前就告訴大家，高雄案對於永續發展來說、對整個高雄車站的永續發展……當然，我們可能必須承擔十年的黑暗期，但是對一個城市的永續發展來說，你看有板橋、有臺北車站、有南港，整個所帶動出來的商圈。我只是覺得很扼腕，當初我提出來這部分，包括我們議員也提出來這部分，還被民進黨議員消遣：你難道不知道我們如何如何嗎？結果現在這一群人、同樣的一批人突然站出來說，高雄方案才是最好的選擇！對於當初提出這方案，贊成這方案的人來說，這個落差……但我們還是一句話，不用往前面看，我現在只是要強調，對我們來說，整個南高雄的發展，就是降低最少的困擾、減短我們的黑暗期。然後我還是一句話，永續發展不是大家的共同目標嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：非常謝謝委員，部長，高雄案多一票。"],["陳部長世凱：多一票？我要紀錄一下。"],["柯委員志恩：不只多一票，非常多票啦，但還是請部長把109年的評估報告拿來做比對，當初的優點現在應該還是優點，至於當初的缺點該怎麼解決，這才是重點。不要把正反又開始……沒辦法撐那麼久了，已經拖太久了，好不好？可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員指教。"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢。謝謝。","報告院會，上午的質詢到此為止，下午2點30分繼續開會，進行交通組之質詢，現在休息。","休息（12時）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":34,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-18"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1138101_00001"}}}