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{\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 639.429, \"end\": 639.449, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}]}, {\"start\": 641.28, \"end\": 668.293, \"text\": \"出手來協助大輕軌新竹大輕軌的一個落實那我想請教一下院長你知道現在新竹大輕軌最大的問題在哪裡嗎?新竹縣市之間還是要談出一個可行的方法我們才可以進行有效的可行性的研究跟評估市政府應該已經在辦理這個可行報告可言報告的一個招標過程我所了解如此\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 641.28, \"end\": 641.56, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 641.56, \"end\": 643.301, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 643.301, \"end\": 643.561, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 643.561, \"end\": 644.762, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"輕\"}, {\"word\": \"軌\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 644.762, \"end\": 644.962, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"竹\", \"start\": 644.962, \"end\": 645.142, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 645.142, \"end\": 645.742, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"輕\"}, {\"word\": \"軌\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 645.742, \"end\": 645.842, \"score\": 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669.056, \"end\": 670.457, \"text\": \"報告委員﹖目前正在\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 669.056, \"end\": 669.156, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 669.156, \"end\": 669.316, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"﹖\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 669.316, \"end\": 669.957, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 669.957, \"end\": 670.337, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 670.337, \"end\": 670.437, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 670.437, \"end\": 670.457, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 696.081, \"end\": 724.406, \"text\": \"新竹市政府在做可行性研究當中,那我們要等到明年的第一季,看他可不可以把可行性研究做完,報來交通部,那交通部該協助的部分都會協助。好,理解齁,院長我跟你提一下狀態齁,因為,大概新竹輕軌碰到兩個很大的問題,一個是沒有錢,所以我禮拜二特別提到財化法的問題,因為地方根本沒有財力去支應這樣子的一個重大建設,\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 696.081, \"end\": 696.281, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"竹\", \"start\": 696.281, \"end\": 696.481, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 696.481, \"end\": 696.641, \"score\": 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00:00:35,749\n院長好,就是NCC那個組織法其實在7月31號的時候總統府已經公佈了嘛,那那個明後來的時候呢其實還是用代理主委的方式去做這個事情,你覺得這個決策有沒有玩法弄權的嫌疑?\n\n3\n00:00:38,390 --> 00:01:00,349\n跟委員報告,我這個完全是一個必要的權宜措施,否則的話NCC在那個之後會變成無法執行它的政策跟業務,那這樣對國家的影響,對你們的影響會很大。院長,因為我在想說,這個代理局這件事情的時候,因為我知道說你們用的是NCC組織法的第16條,那某個部分它確實是有一些\n\n4\n00:01:02,571 --> 00:01:03,852\n林立雲和王維京發文痛批NCC內部腐化\n\n5\n00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:50,180\n如為首長制,就溫柏中在10月7號的時候,受訪跳出來說他是依法行政,絕無不法。院長你怎麼看這事情?從機關內部出來的人,對機關的批評,我想NCC包括代理主委跟所有的NCC同仁,甚至包括行政院都應該非常重視,如果屬實,\n\n6\n00:01:52,546 --> 00:02:12,463\n我聽到NCC在講依法行政的時候喊得這麼大聲我真的覺得非常非常的諷刺因為我覺得NCC根本就是打著依法行政的旗幹著違法亂政的事情我為什麼這麼講勒?\n\n7\n00:02:16,155 --> 00:02:45,444\n院長,你知道中天案在高等行政法院的時候判決下來,你有沒有看過這個證文、判決書?有,沒有很詳細,但我知道整個狀況。所以他的情況很清楚地講到,判決處主文裡面就很清楚地講到說,原處分撤銷。院長你知道這件事情嘛,對不對?是。你知道理由嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:48,914 --> 00:03:08,053\n這個判決來來去去有的是針對程序上的,很少針對實質內容的,這個我知道這個狀況是如此。所以判決處文很清楚地講到原處分撤銷,那個莫某宗你已經進到院會裡面來,那個我不擋你上台可是你不要講話,我不擋你上台你不要講話,來。\n\n9\n00:03:09,654 --> 00:03:37,619\n那個在中天換照案的那個訴訟案判決書裡面第21頁院長他很清楚的直接講到說違反換照審查辦法第11條第三項後段就未來6年營運計畫各審查項目之評分基準規定形同改變執照之核發標準容以造成該五個審查項目之決策事實基礎錯誤\n\n10\n00:03:39,574 --> 00:03:50,500\n而資訊不完全,足以影響所評,為審議不予換照之結論,無從推算回復,原處分自與法有違。﹖\n\n11\n00:03:56,923 --> 00:04:15,471\n原處分與法有違,很清楚喔,所以為什麼我剛剛聽到翁柏宗在講說他完全依法行政的時候,我真的覺得超級諷刺,現在高等行政法院完全透過他的判決書狠狠地打臉NCC,\n\n12\n00:04:17,708 --> 00:04:31,221\n在這樣的一個情況之下的時候,院長你有什麼看法?我剛剛有請教代理主委,他說他現在NCC基於他的職權,他已經在上訴當中,既然在上訴,那這個在法院當中還要做最後的這個決定齁。\n\n13\n00:04:36,064 --> 00:04:57,391\n我們絕對尊重這些法律的程序可是在高等行政法院當中的判決書上寫得非常非常的清楚院長我直接跟你講一下他很清楚講到了NCC怎麼樣子違法亂政109年11月的時候中天換照的時候\n\n14\n00:04:59,192 --> 00:05:17,718\n根據衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業深色審查辦法,它在107年就已經更改了修正的所有的評分標準。NCC在109年的時候還是用105年的標準來做審查。\n\n15\n00:05:21,957 --> 00:05:42,748\n院長這麼簡單的一個邏輯的狀態我嚴重的懷疑NCC是蓄意是公然違法我跟委員提醒或許法律上大家還是可以再進一步去研究申請設立的深色的審查跟所謂換照是兩套不同的準則標準來進行的那不能把它混為一談\n\n16\n00:05:44,609 --> 00:06:10,219\n換照當中的時候他一樣用了一個這樣子的一個審查的一個標準是判決書裡面針對院長提的這部分也很清楚提到了行政規則他沒有辦法去逾越母法的部分院長你剛剛我讓汪博東站在你旁邊就是覺得你對這事情可能不一定了解的這麼透徹所以我讓他站在你旁邊可是我不想要讓他透過麥克風來講話因為我覺得他的身份是有爭議的所以\n\n17\n00:06:13,015 --> 00:06:27,069\n院長我希望你在針對依法行政這件事情的時候能夠好好的去考量因為NCC很明顯的狀態他打著維持媒體自由的旗幹著\n\n18\n00:06:28,590 --> 00:06:28,750\n李卓人議員\n\n19\n00:06:44,275 --> 00:07:02,980\n針對這個部分我這邊簡單講一下因為他還有更改的機會我們希望因為這兩個禮拜協商沒有成果和解飯也沒有成果下個禮拜還要繼續那我本來期待院長其實是可以說理論法的人那我們希望\n\n20\n00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:33,160\n在這個事情當中的時候院長你要堅持住不要沉淪變成像NCC一樣打著依法行政的旗幹著破壞違法行政的事情我們希望院長你堅持住這個部分好不好我會很堅持憲法70條憲法的理論還有預算法91條裡面的規定憲法70條這個部分是預算審進來送進立法院的時候我們在審的部分我們沒有辦法去增加它可是我們立法了之後\n\n21\n00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:34,440\n就是依照預算法91條\n\n22\n00:07:58,722 --> 00:08:18,559\n立法院在審視預算的時候,他要增加稅出的時候,要徵詢行政院的意見。我們現在針對立法的結果出來狀態的時候,你都完全不尊重的時候,我們希望,院長你這邊一定要真正的依法行政,不要沉淪變成像ACC。好,因為我這邊還有第二個問題我要問,就是\n\n23\n00:08:23,070 --> 00:08:41,848\n禮拜二的時候我講到桃樹苗大矽谷計畫那當時也提到了一個部分就是有關於才化法的一個修正那我提到了一個部分就是科學園區大矽谷計畫這邊的時候他納進去了大新竹輕軌這個計畫院長你知道吧\n\n24\n00:08:45,315 --> 00:09:01,169\n那知道這個計畫當中的時候我當時提到了一件事情因為整個財化法的發展過程當中新竹市創稅全國第三可是得到的配回率全國最低\n\n25\n00:09:02,782 --> 00:09:17,342\n新竹市平均每一個人貢獻的中央的創稅是65萬,全國最高,比台北市、新北市都高,可是我們配回率是全國最低。你當時提到了一件事情,就是說你會用\n\n26\n00:09:18,263 --> 00:09:40,756\n一般性的補助給新竹市更多,對不對,我記得你當時是這樣回應。不是我回應,是行政院一直這樣在處理這些問題。可是我們看到的狀態並沒有,新竹市得到了一般性補助的時候,全國倒數第三,只比金門、馬祖高,比澎湖還要低。那這個部分呢,我為什麼特別提到這個情況。地方要提出需求,中央才能夠予以補助。\n\n27\n00:09:42,037 --> 00:10:09,120\n院長,所以我特別提到這個部分,我希望院長能夠去落實好久沒有大細股計畫裡面對於大新竹輕軌的一個主張。這邊有一個狀態,就是按地方上面他們去縮時攝影出來的結果的時候,新竹市去科學園區工作,大概平均每個人上下班要花兩個小時以上的車程。\n\n28\n00:10:11,102 --> 00:10:39,449\n我們認為如果新竹市有比較好的交通運輸系統的時候不只是對在園區工作的工程師對大新竹的人來說是好事而且對於竹科產值可以再進一步的向上提升因為每一個工程師幾乎都發他們每天上班時間的四分之一在交通上面所以本席也利用今天這個機會的時候希望院長能夠\n\n29\n00:10:41,280 --> 00:11:08,293\n出手來協助大輕軌新竹大輕軌的一個落實那我想請教一下院長你知道現在新竹大輕軌最大的問題在哪裡嗎?新竹縣市之間還是要談出一個可行的方法我們才可以進行有效的可行性的研究跟評估市政府應該已經在辦理這個可行報告可言報告的一個招標過程我所了解如此\n\n30\n00:11:09,056 --> 00:11:10,457\n報告委員﹖目前正在\n\n31\n00:11:36,081 --> 00:12:04,406\n新竹市政府在做可行性研究當中,那我們要等到明年的第一季,看他可不可以把可行性研究做完,報來交通部,那交通部該協助的部分都會協助。好,理解齁,院長我跟你提一下狀態齁,因為,大概新竹輕軌碰到兩個很大的問題,一個是沒有錢,所以我禮拜二特別提到財化法的問題,因為地方根本沒有財力去支應這樣子的一個重大建設,\n\n32\n00:12:05,751 --> 00:12:34,662\n第二個部分就是溝通的問題現在部長提到新竹市出來整合這樣子的一個可行性研究計畫我必須老實講喔院長你覺得一個跨縣市的一個可行性研究計畫大概需要多少錢看工程的難易度你直覺你覺得以新竹市你對新竹縣市一定熟嘛你對新竹縣市熟你覺得一個這樣的一個大輕軌的一個可行性研究你覺得大概需要多少錢\n\n33\n00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:59,756\n數百萬要要吧?數百萬喔?數百萬喔?做不起來,院長你真的不知道米價欸。9月份的時候新竹市政府用2200萬去做一個招標,流標,沒有人要來。因為它牽涉到的範圍非常的大。然後接下來預計要招標的費用大概要到四、五千萬。\n\n34\n00:13:01,016 --> 00:13:27,310\n然後我要特別提到因為新竹市政府的團隊跟新竹縣他們在今年3月初的時候拜會前副院長鄭文燦他找了交通部的鐵道局來希望交通部鐵道局他來整合新竹市縣市的一個網絡那當時新竹市政府說好他來做這樣子的一個配合先來做把這個招標動作把它弄出去可是現場他要求鐵道局補助\n\n35\n00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,844\n大新竹的輕軌對於解決大新竹地區的交通肯定是非常非常重要的那麼我們希望\n\n36\n00:13:53,121 --> 00:13:57,503\n如果新竹市政府提出需求還需要再更多的輔助可以來跟我講,他目前還沒有來講。\n\n37\n00:14:22,113 --> 00:14:44,309\n大新竹輕軌的時候也能夠比照辦理因為我們在110年曾經提過一個方案到交通部這邊來可是目前是依照113年3月27號的共識由新竹市政府在做理解當時提出來狀態就卡到兩件事情因為竹科這個部分地方真的沒辦法去整合\n\n38\n00:14:45,429 --> 00:15:09,243\n因為他不只是新竹縣市的問題他還卡到了新竹科學園區的問題所以我們希望院長能夠指示部長這邊針對大新竹輕軌的時候能夠加把力讓大新竹輕軌變成桃竹苗大矽谷計畫很重要的一個配套的一個設施如果能夠跨到苗栗區因為\n\n39\n00:15:10,043 --> 00:15:10,203\n好,謝謝鄭委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6388\t7893\t主席好,我想請一下卓榮泰院長委員長請備詢\n18924\t35749\t院長好,就是NCC那個組織法其實在7月31號的時候總統府已經公佈了嘛,那那個明後來的時候呢其實還是用代理主委的方式去做這個事情,你覺得這個決策有沒有玩法弄權的嫌疑?\n38390\t60349\t跟委員報告,我這個完全是一個必要的權宜措施,否則的話NCC在那個之後會變成無法執行它的政策跟業務,那這樣對國家的影響,對你們的影響會很大。 院長,因為我在想說,這個代理局這件事情的時候,因為我知道說你們用的是NCC組織法的第16條,那某個部分它確實是有一些\n62571\t63852\t林立雲和王維京發文痛批NCC內部腐化\n88800\t110180\t如為首長制,就溫柏中在10月7號的時候,受訪跳出來說他是依法行政,絕無不法。 院長你怎麼看這事情?從機關內部出來的人,對機關的批評,我想NCC包括代理主委跟所有的NCC同仁,甚至包括行政院都應該非常重視,如果屬實,\n112546\t132463\t我聽到NCC在講依法行政的時候喊得這麼大聲我真的覺得非常非常的諷刺因為我覺得NCC根本就是打著依法行政的旗幹著違法亂政的事情我為什麼這麼講勒?\n136155\t165444\t院長,你知道中天案在高等行政法院的時候判決下來,你有沒有看過這個證文、判決書?有,沒有很詳細,但我知道整個狀況。所以他的情況很清楚地講到,判決處主文裡面就很清楚地講到說,原處分撤銷。院長你知道這件事情嘛,對不對?是。你知道理由嗎?\n168914\t188053\t這個判決來來去去有的是針對程序上的,很少針對實質內容的,這個我知道這個狀況是如此。所以判決處文很清楚地講到原處分撤銷,那個莫某宗你已經進到院會裡面來,那個我不擋你上台可是你不要講話,我不擋你上台你不要講話,來。\n189654\t217619\t那個在中天換照案的那個訴訟案判決書裡面第21頁 院長他很清楚的直接講到說違反換照審查辦法第11條第三項後段就未來6年營運計畫各審查項目之評分基準規定 形同改變執照之核發標準 容以造成該五個審查項目之決策事實基礎錯誤\n219574\t230500\t而資訊不完全,足以影響所評,為審議不予換照之結論,無從推算回復,原處分自與法有違。﹖\n236923\t255471\t原處分與法有違,很清楚喔,所以為什麼我剛剛聽到翁柏宗在講說他完全依法行政的時候,我真的覺得超級諷刺,現在高等行政法院完全透過他的判決書狠狠地打臉NCC,\n257708\t271221\t在這樣的一個情況之下的時候,院長你有什麼看法?我剛剛有請教代理主委,他說他現在NCC基於他的職權,他已經在上訴當中,既然在上訴,那這個在法院當中還要做最後的這個決定齁。\n276064\t297391\t我們絕對尊重這些法律的程序可是在高等行政法院當中的判決書上寫得非常非常的清楚院長我直接跟你講一下他很清楚講到了NCC怎麼樣子違法亂政109年11月的時候中天換照的時候\n299192\t317718\t根據衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業深色審查辦法,它在107年就已經更改了修正的所有的評分標準。NCC在109年的時候還是用105年的標準來做審查。\n321957\t342748\t院長這麼簡單的一個邏輯的狀態我嚴重的懷疑NCC是蓄意是公然違法我跟委員提醒或許法律上大家還是可以再進一步去研究 申請設立的深色的審查跟所謂換照是兩套不同的準則標準來進行的那不能把它混為一談\n344609\t370219\t換照當中的時候他一樣用了一個這樣子的一個審查的一個標準是判決書裡面針對院長提的這部分也很清楚提到了行政規則他沒有辦法去逾越母法的部分 院長你剛剛我讓汪博東站在你旁邊就是覺得你對這事情可能不一定了解的這麼透徹所以我讓他站在你旁邊可是我不想要讓他透過麥克風來講話因為我覺得他的身份是有爭議的所以\n373015\t387069\t院長我希望你在針對依法行政這件事情的時候能夠好好的去考量因為NCC很明顯的狀態他打著維持媒體自由的旗幹著\n388590\t388750\t李卓人議員\n404275\t422980\t針對這個部分我這邊簡單講一下因為他還有更改的機會我們希望因為這兩個禮拜協商沒有成果和解飯也沒有成果下個禮拜還要繼續那我本來期待院長其實是可以說理論法的人那我們希望\n423840\t453160\t在這個事情當中的時候 院長你要堅持住不要沉淪變成像NCC一樣打著依法行政的旗 幹著破壞違法行政的事情我們希望院長你堅持住這個部分好不好我會很堅持 憲法70條憲法的理論還有預算法91條裡面的規定憲法70條這個部分是預算審進來 送進立法院的時候我們在審的部分我們沒有辦法去增加它可是我們立法了之後\n454120\t454440\t就是依照預算法91條\n478722\t498559\t立法院在審視預算的時候,他要增加稅出的時候,要徵詢行政院的意見。我們現在針對立法的結果出來狀態的時候,你都完全不尊重的時候,我們希望,院長你這邊一定要真正的依法行政,不要沉淪變成像ACC。好,因為我這邊還有第二個問題我要問,就是\n503070\t521848\t禮拜二的時候我講到桃樹苗大矽谷計畫那當時也提到了一個部分就是有關於才化法的一個修正那我提到了一個部分就是科學園區大矽谷計畫這邊的時候他納進去了大新竹輕軌這個計畫 院長你知道吧\n525315\t541169\t那知道這個計畫當中的時候我當時提到了一件事情因為整個財化法的發展過程當中新竹市創稅全國第三可是得到的配回率全國最低\n542782\t557342\t新竹市平均每一個人貢獻的中央的創稅是65萬,全國最高,比台北市、新北市都高,可是我們配回率是全國最低。你當時提到了一件事情,就是說你會用\n558263\t580756\t一般性的補助給新竹市更多,對不對,我記得你當時是這樣回應。不是我回應,是行政院一直這樣在處理這些問題。可是我們看到的狀態並沒有,新竹市得到了一般性補助的時候,全國倒數第三,只比金門、馬祖高,比澎湖還要低。那這個部分呢,我為什麼特別提到這個情況。地方要提出需求,中央才能夠予以補助。\n582037\t609120\t院長,所以我特別提到這個部分,我希望院長能夠去落實好久沒有大細股計畫裡面對於大新竹輕軌的一個主張。這邊有一個狀態,就是按地方上面他們去縮時攝影出來的結果的時候,新竹市去科學園區工作,大概平均每個人上下班要花兩個小時以上的車程。\n611102\t639449\t我們認為如果新竹市有比較好的交通運輸系統的時候不只是對在園區工作的工程師對大新竹的人來說是好事而且對於竹科產值可以再進一步的向上提升因為每一個工程師幾乎都發他們每天上班時間的四分之一在交通上面所以本席也利用今天這個機會的時候希望院長能夠\n641280\t668293\t出手來協助大輕軌新竹大輕軌的一個落實那我想請教一下院長你知道現在新竹大輕軌最大的問題在哪裡嗎?新竹縣市之間還是要談出一個可行的方法我們才可以進行有效的可行性的研究跟評估市政府應該已經在辦理這個可行報告可言報告的一個招標過程我所了解如此\n669056\t670457\t報告委員﹖目前正在\n696081\t724406\t新竹市政府在做可行性研究當中,那我們要等到明年的第一季,看他可不可以把可行性研究做完,報來交通部,那交通部該協助的部分都會協助。好,理解齁,院長我跟你提一下狀態齁,因為,大概新竹輕軌碰到兩個很大的問題,一個是沒有錢,所以我禮拜二特別提到財化法的問題,因為地方根本沒有財力去支應這樣子的一個重大建設,\n725751\t754662\t第二個部分就是溝通的問題現在部長提到新竹市出來整合這樣子的一個可行性研究計畫我必須老實講喔院長你覺得一個跨縣市的一個可行性研究計畫大概需要多少錢看工程的難易度你直覺你覺得以新竹市你對新竹縣市一定熟嘛你對新竹縣市熟你覺得一個這樣的一個大輕軌的一個可行性研究你覺得大概需要多少錢\n756110\t779756\t數百萬要要吧?數百萬喔?數百萬喔?做不起來,院長你真的不知道米價欸。9月份的時候新竹市政府用2200萬去做一個招標,流標,沒有人要來。因為它牽涉到的範圍非常的大。然後接下來預計要招標的費用大概要到四、五千萬。\n781016\t807310\t然後我要特別提到因為新竹市政府的團隊跟新竹縣他們在今年3月初的時候拜會前副院長鄭文燦他找了交通部的鐵道局來希望交通部鐵道局他來整合新竹市縣市的一個網絡那當時新竹市政府說好他來做這樣子的一個配合先來做把這個招標動作把它弄出去可是現場他要求鐵道局補助\n808800\t813844\t大新竹的輕軌對於解決大新竹地區的交通肯定是非常非常重要的那麼我們希望\n833121\t837503\t如果新竹市政府提出需求還需要再更多的輔助可以來跟我講,他目前還沒有來講。\n862113\t884309\t大新竹輕軌的時候也能夠比照辦理因為我們在110年曾經提過一個方案到交通部這邊來可是目前是依照113年3月27號的共識由新竹市政府在做理解 當時提出來狀態就卡到兩件事情因為竹科這個部分地方真的沒辦法去整合\n885429\t909243\t因為他不只是新竹縣市的問題他還卡到了新竹科學園區的問題所以我們希望院長能夠指示部長這邊針對大新竹輕軌的時候能夠加把力讓大新竹輕軌變成桃竹苗大矽谷計畫很重要的一個配套的一個設施如果能夠跨到苗栗區因為\n910043\t910203\t好,謝謝鄭委員\n","txt":"主席好,我想請一下卓榮泰院長委員長請備詢\n院長好,就是NCC那個組織法其實在7月31號的時候總統府已經公佈了嘛,那那個明後來的時候呢其實還是用代理主委的方式去做這個事情,你覺得這個決策有沒有玩法弄權的嫌疑?\n跟委員報告,我這個完全是一個必要的權宜措施,否則的話NCC在那個之後會變成無法執行它的政策跟業務,那這樣對國家的影響,對你們的影響會很大。 院長,因為我在想說,這個代理局這件事情的時候,因為我知道說你們用的是NCC組織法的第16條,那某個部分它確實是有一些\n林立雲和王維京發文痛批NCC內部腐化\n如為首長制,就溫柏中在10月7號的時候,受訪跳出來說他是依法行政,絕無不法。 院長你怎麼看這事情?從機關內部出來的人,對機關的批評,我想NCC包括代理主委跟所有的NCC同仁,甚至包括行政院都應該非常重視,如果屬實,\n我聽到NCC在講依法行政的時候喊得這麼大聲我真的覺得非常非常的諷刺因為我覺得NCC根本就是打著依法行政的旗幹著違法亂政的事情我為什麼這麼講勒?\n院長,你知道中天案在高等行政法院的時候判決下來,你有沒有看過這個證文、判決書?有,沒有很詳細,但我知道整個狀況。所以他的情況很清楚地講到,判決處主文裡面就很清楚地講到說,原處分撤銷。院長你知道這件事情嘛,對不對?是。你知道理由嗎?\n這個判決來來去去有的是針對程序上的,很少針對實質內容的,這個我知道這個狀況是如此。所以判決處文很清楚地講到原處分撤銷,那個莫某宗你已經進到院會裡面來,那個我不擋你上台可是你不要講話,我不擋你上台你不要講話,來。\n那個在中天換照案的那個訴訟案判決書裡面第21頁 院長他很清楚的直接講到說違反換照審查辦法第11條第三項後段就未來6年營運計畫各審查項目之評分基準規定 形同改變執照之核發標準 容以造成該五個審查項目之決策事實基礎錯誤\n而資訊不完全,足以影響所評,為審議不予換照之結論,無從推算回復,原處分自與法有違。﹖\n原處分與法有違,很清楚喔,所以為什麼我剛剛聽到翁柏宗在講說他完全依法行政的時候,我真的覺得超級諷刺,現在高等行政法院完全透過他的判決書狠狠地打臉NCC,\n在這樣的一個情況之下的時候,院長你有什麼看法?我剛剛有請教代理主委,他說他現在NCC基於他的職權,他已經在上訴當中,既然在上訴,那這個在法院當中還要做最後的這個決定齁。\n我們絕對尊重這些法律的程序可是在高等行政法院當中的判決書上寫得非常非常的清楚院長我直接跟你講一下他很清楚講到了NCC怎麼樣子違法亂政109年11月的時候中天換照的時候\n根據衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業深色審查辦法,它在107年就已經更改了修正的所有的評分標準。NCC在109年的時候還是用105年的標準來做審查。\n院長這麼簡單的一個邏輯的狀態我嚴重的懷疑NCC是蓄意是公然違法我跟委員提醒或許法律上大家還是可以再進一步去研究 申請設立的深色的審查跟所謂換照是兩套不同的準則標準來進行的那不能把它混為一談\n換照當中的時候他一樣用了一個這樣子的一個審查的一個標準是判決書裡面針對院長提的這部分也很清楚提到了行政規則他沒有辦法去逾越母法的部分 院長你剛剛我讓汪博東站在你旁邊就是覺得你對這事情可能不一定了解的這麼透徹所以我讓他站在你旁邊可是我不想要讓他透過麥克風來講話因為我覺得他的身份是有爭議的所以\n院長我希望你在針對依法行政這件事情的時候能夠好好的去考量因為NCC很明顯的狀態他打著維持媒體自由的旗幹著\n李卓人議員\n針對這個部分我這邊簡單講一下因為他還有更改的機會我們希望因為這兩個禮拜協商沒有成果和解飯也沒有成果下個禮拜還要繼續那我本來期待院長其實是可以說理論法的人那我們希望\n在這個事情當中的時候 院長你要堅持住不要沉淪變成像NCC一樣打著依法行政的旗 幹著破壞違法行政的事情我們希望院長你堅持住這個部分好不好我會很堅持 憲法70條憲法的理論還有預算法91條裡面的規定憲法70條這個部分是預算審進來 送進立法院的時候我們在審的部分我們沒有辦法去增加它可是我們立法了之後\n就是依照預算法91條\n立法院在審視預算的時候,他要增加稅出的時候,要徵詢行政院的意見。我們現在針對立法的結果出來狀態的時候,你都完全不尊重的時候,我們希望,院長你這邊一定要真正的依法行政,不要沉淪變成像ACC。好,因為我這邊還有第二個問題我要問,就是\n禮拜二的時候我講到桃樹苗大矽谷計畫那當時也提到了一個部分就是有關於才化法的一個修正那我提到了一個部分就是科學園區大矽谷計畫這邊的時候他納進去了大新竹輕軌這個計畫 院長你知道吧\n那知道這個計畫當中的時候我當時提到了一件事情因為整個財化法的發展過程當中新竹市創稅全國第三可是得到的配回率全國最低\n新竹市平均每一個人貢獻的中央的創稅是65萬,全國最高,比台北市、新北市都高,可是我們配回率是全國最低。你當時提到了一件事情,就是說你會用\n一般性的補助給新竹市更多,對不對,我記得你當時是這樣回應。不是我回應,是行政院一直這樣在處理這些問題。可是我們看到的狀態並沒有,新竹市得到了一般性補助的時候,全國倒數第三,只比金門、馬祖高,比澎湖還要低。那這個部分呢,我為什麼特別提到這個情況。地方要提出需求,中央才能夠予以補助。\n院長,所以我特別提到這個部分,我希望院長能夠去落實好久沒有大細股計畫裡面對於大新竹輕軌的一個主張。這邊有一個狀態,就是按地方上面他們去縮時攝影出來的結果的時候,新竹市去科學園區工作,大概平均每個人上下班要花兩個小時以上的車程。\n我們認為如果新竹市有比較好的交通運輸系統的時候不只是對在園區工作的工程師對大新竹的人來說是好事而且對於竹科產值可以再進一步的向上提升因為每一個工程師幾乎都發他們每天上班時間的四分之一在交通上面所以本席也利用今天這個機會的時候希望院長能夠\n出手來協助大輕軌新竹大輕軌的一個落實那我想請教一下院長你知道現在新竹大輕軌最大的問題在哪裡嗎?新竹縣市之間還是要談出一個可行的方法我們才可以進行有效的可行性的研究跟評估市政府應該已經在辦理這個可行報告可言報告的一個招標過程我所了解如此\n報告委員﹖目前正在\n新竹市政府在做可行性研究當中,那我們要等到明年的第一季,看他可不可以把可行性研究做完,報來交通部,那交通部該協助的部分都會協助。好,理解齁,院長我跟你提一下狀態齁,因為,大概新竹輕軌碰到兩個很大的問題,一個是沒有錢,所以我禮拜二特別提到財化法的問題,因為地方根本沒有財力去支應這樣子的一個重大建設,\n第二個部分就是溝通的問題現在部長提到新竹市出來整合這樣子的一個可行性研究計畫我必須老實講喔院長你覺得一個跨縣市的一個可行性研究計畫大概需要多少錢看工程的難易度你直覺你覺得以新竹市你對新竹縣市一定熟嘛你對新竹縣市熟你覺得一個這樣的一個大輕軌的一個可行性研究你覺得大概需要多少錢\n數百萬要要吧?數百萬喔?數百萬喔?做不起來,院長你真的不知道米價欸。9月份的時候新竹市政府用2200萬去做一個招標,流標,沒有人要來。因為它牽涉到的範圍非常的大。然後接下來預計要招標的費用大概要到四、五千萬。\n然後我要特別提到因為新竹市政府的團隊跟新竹縣他們在今年3月初的時候拜會前副院長鄭文燦他找了交通部的鐵道局來希望交通部鐵道局他來整合新竹市縣市的一個網絡那當時新竹市政府說好他來做這樣子的一個配合先來做把這個招標動作把它弄出去可是現場他要求鐵道局補助\n大新竹的輕軌對於解決大新竹地區的交通肯定是非常非常重要的那麼我們希望\n如果新竹市政府提出需求還需要再更多的輔助可以來跟我講,他目前還沒有來講。\n大新竹輕軌的時候也能夠比照辦理因為我們在110年曾經提過一個方案到交通部這邊來可是目前是依照113年3月27號的共識由新竹市政府在做理解 當時提出來狀態就卡到兩件事情因為竹科這個部分地方真的沒辦法去整合\n因為他不只是新竹縣市的問題他還卡到了新竹科學園區的問題所以我們希望院長能夠指示部長這邊針對大新竹輕軌的時候能夠加把力讓大新竹輕軌變成桃竹苗大矽谷計畫很重要的一個配套的一個設施如果能夠跨到苗栗區因為\n好,謝謝鄭委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.388 --> 00:07.893\n主席好,我想請一下卓榮泰院長委員長請備詢\n\n00:18.924 --> 00:35.749\n院長好,就是NCC那個組織法其實在7月31號的時候總統府已經公佈了嘛,那那個明後來的時候呢其實還是用代理主委的方式去做這個事情,你覺得這個決策有沒有玩法弄權的嫌疑?\n\n00:38.390 --> 01:00.349\n跟委員報告,我這個完全是一個必要的權宜措施,否則的話NCC在那個之後會變成無法執行它的政策跟業務,那這樣對國家的影響,對你們的影響會很大。院長,因為我在想說,這個代理局這件事情的時候,因為我知道說你們用的是NCC組織法的第16條,那某個部分它確實是有一些\n\n01:02.571 --> 01:03.852\n林立雲和王維京發文痛批NCC內部腐化\n\n01:28.800 --> 01:50.180\n如為首長制,就溫柏中在10月7號的時候,受訪跳出來說他是依法行政,絕無不法。院長你怎麼看這事情?從機關內部出來的人,對機關的批評,我想NCC包括代理主委跟所有的NCC同仁,甚至包括行政院都應該非常重視,如果屬實,\n\n01:52.546 --> 02:12.463\n我聽到NCC在講依法行政的時候喊得這麼大聲我真的覺得非常非常的諷刺因為我覺得NCC根本就是打著依法行政的旗幹著違法亂政的事情我為什麼這麼講勒?\n\n02:16.155 --> 02:45.444\n院長,你知道中天案在高等行政法院的時候判決下來,你有沒有看過這個證文、判決書?有,沒有很詳細,但我知道整個狀況。所以他的情況很清楚地講到,判決處主文裡面就很清楚地講到說,原處分撤銷。院長你知道這件事情嘛,對不對?是。你知道理由嗎?\n\n02:48.914 --> 03:08.053\n這個判決來來去去有的是針對程序上的,很少針對實質內容的,這個我知道這個狀況是如此。所以判決處文很清楚地講到原處分撤銷,那個莫某宗你已經進到院會裡面來,那個我不擋你上台可是你不要講話,我不擋你上台你不要講話,來。\n\n03:09.654 --> 03:37.619\n那個在中天換照案的那個訴訟案判決書裡面第21頁院長他很清楚的直接講到說違反換照審查辦法第11條第三項後段就未來6年營運計畫各審查項目之評分基準規定形同改變執照之核發標準容以造成該五個審查項目之決策事實基礎錯誤\n\n03:39.574 --> 03:50.500\n而資訊不完全,足以影響所評,為審議不予換照之結論,無從推算回復,原處分自與法有違。﹖\n\n03:56.923 --> 04:15.471\n原處分與法有違,很清楚喔,所以為什麼我剛剛聽到翁柏宗在講說他完全依法行政的時候,我真的覺得超級諷刺,現在高等行政法院完全透過他的判決書狠狠地打臉NCC,\n\n04:17.708 --> 04:31.221\n在這樣的一個情況之下的時候,院長你有什麼看法?我剛剛有請教代理主委,他說他現在NCC基於他的職權,他已經在上訴當中,既然在上訴,那這個在法院當中還要做最後的這個決定齁。\n\n04:36.064 --> 04:57.391\n我們絕對尊重這些法律的程序可是在高等行政法院當中的判決書上寫得非常非常的清楚院長我直接跟你講一下他很清楚講到了NCC怎麼樣子違法亂政109年11月的時候中天換照的時候\n\n04:59.192 --> 05:17.718\n根據衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業深色審查辦法,它在107年就已經更改了修正的所有的評分標準。NCC在109年的時候還是用105年的標準來做審查。\n\n05:21.957 --> 05:42.748\n院長這麼簡單的一個邏輯的狀態我嚴重的懷疑NCC是蓄意是公然違法我跟委員提醒或許法律上大家還是可以再進一步去研究申請設立的深色的審查跟所謂換照是兩套不同的準則標準來進行的那不能把它混為一談\n\n05:44.609 --> 06:10.219\n換照當中的時候他一樣用了一個這樣子的一個審查的一個標準是判決書裡面針對院長提的這部分也很清楚提到了行政規則他沒有辦法去逾越母法的部分院長你剛剛我讓汪博東站在你旁邊就是覺得你對這事情可能不一定了解的這麼透徹所以我讓他站在你旁邊可是我不想要讓他透過麥克風來講話因為我覺得他的身份是有爭議的所以\n\n06:13.015 --> 06:27.069\n院長我希望你在針對依法行政這件事情的時候能夠好好的去考量因為NCC很明顯的狀態他打著維持媒體自由的旗幹著\n\n06:28.590 --> 06:28.750\n李卓人議員\n\n06:44.275 --> 07:02.980\n針對這個部分我這邊簡單講一下因為他還有更改的機會我們希望因為這兩個禮拜協商沒有成果和解飯也沒有成果下個禮拜還要繼續那我本來期待院長其實是可以說理論法的人那我們希望\n\n07:03.840 --> 07:33.160\n在這個事情當中的時候院長你要堅持住不要沉淪變成像NCC一樣打著依法行政的旗幹著破壞違法行政的事情我們希望院長你堅持住這個部分好不好我會很堅持憲法70條憲法的理論還有預算法91條裡面的規定憲法70條這個部分是預算審進來送進立法院的時候我們在審的部分我們沒有辦法去增加它可是我們立法了之後\n\n07:34.120 --> 07:34.440\n就是依照預算法91條\n\n07:58.722 --> 08:18.559\n立法院在審視預算的時候,他要增加稅出的時候,要徵詢行政院的意見。我們現在針對立法的結果出來狀態的時候,你都完全不尊重的時候,我們希望,院長你這邊一定要真正的依法行政,不要沉淪變成像ACC。好,因為我這邊還有第二個問題我要問,就是\n\n08:23.070 --> 08:41.848\n禮拜二的時候我講到桃樹苗大矽谷計畫那當時也提到了一個部分就是有關於才化法的一個修正那我提到了一個部分就是科學園區大矽谷計畫這邊的時候他納進去了大新竹輕軌這個計畫院長你知道吧\n\n08:45.315 --> 09:01.169\n那知道這個計畫當中的時候我當時提到了一件事情因為整個財化法的發展過程當中新竹市創稅全國第三可是得到的配回率全國最低\n\n09:02.782 --> 09:17.342\n新竹市平均每一個人貢獻的中央的創稅是65萬,全國最高,比台北市、新北市都高,可是我們配回率是全國最低。你當時提到了一件事情,就是說你會用\n\n09:18.263 --> 09:40.756\n一般性的補助給新竹市更多,對不對,我記得你當時是這樣回應。不是我回應,是行政院一直這樣在處理這些問題。可是我們看到的狀態並沒有,新竹市得到了一般性補助的時候,全國倒數第三,只比金門、馬祖高,比澎湖還要低。那這個部分呢,我為什麼特別提到這個情況。地方要提出需求,中央才能夠予以補助。\n\n09:42.037 --> 10:09.120\n院長,所以我特別提到這個部分,我希望院長能夠去落實好久沒有大細股計畫裡面對於大新竹輕軌的一個主張。這邊有一個狀態,就是按地方上面他們去縮時攝影出來的結果的時候,新竹市去科學園區工作,大概平均每個人上下班要花兩個小時以上的車程。\n\n10:11.102 --> 10:39.449\n我們認為如果新竹市有比較好的交通運輸系統的時候不只是對在園區工作的工程師對大新竹的人來說是好事而且對於竹科產值可以再進一步的向上提升因為每一個工程師幾乎都發他們每天上班時間的四分之一在交通上面所以本席也利用今天這個機會的時候希望院長能夠\n\n10:41.280 --> 11:08.293\n出手來協助大輕軌新竹大輕軌的一個落實那我想請教一下院長你知道現在新竹大輕軌最大的問題在哪裡嗎?新竹縣市之間還是要談出一個可行的方法我們才可以進行有效的可行性的研究跟評估市政府應該已經在辦理這個可行報告可言報告的一個招標過程我所了解如此\n\n11:09.056 --> 11:10.457\n報告委員﹖目前正在\n\n11:36.081 --> 12:04.406\n新竹市政府在做可行性研究當中,那我們要等到明年的第一季,看他可不可以把可行性研究做完,報來交通部,那交通部該協助的部分都會協助。好,理解齁,院長我跟你提一下狀態齁,因為,大概新竹輕軌碰到兩個很大的問題,一個是沒有錢,所以我禮拜二特別提到財化法的問題,因為地方根本沒有財力去支應這樣子的一個重大建設,\n\n12:05.751 --> 12:34.662\n第二個部分就是溝通的問題現在部長提到新竹市出來整合這樣子的一個可行性研究計畫我必須老實講喔院長你覺得一個跨縣市的一個可行性研究計畫大概需要多少錢看工程的難易度你直覺你覺得以新竹市你對新竹縣市一定熟嘛你對新竹縣市熟你覺得一個這樣的一個大輕軌的一個可行性研究你覺得大概需要多少錢\n\n12:36.110 --> 12:59.756\n數百萬要要吧?數百萬喔?數百萬喔?做不起來,院長你真的不知道米價欸。9月份的時候新竹市政府用2200萬去做一個招標,流標,沒有人要來。因為它牽涉到的範圍非常的大。然後接下來預計要招標的費用大概要到四、五千萬。\n\n13:01.016 --> 13:27.310\n然後我要特別提到因為新竹市政府的團隊跟新竹縣他們在今年3月初的時候拜會前副院長鄭文燦他找了交通部的鐵道局來希望交通部鐵道局他來整合新竹市縣市的一個網絡那當時新竹市政府說好他來做這樣子的一個配合先來做把這個招標動作把它弄出去可是現場他要求鐵道局補助\n\n13:28.800 --> 13:33.844\n大新竹的輕軌對於解決大新竹地區的交通肯定是非常非常重要的那麼我們希望\n\n13:53.121 --> 13:57.503\n如果新竹市政府提出需求還需要再更多的輔助可以來跟我講,他目前還沒有來講。\n\n14:22.113 --> 14:44.309\n大新竹輕軌的時候也能夠比照辦理因為我們在110年曾經提過一個方案到交通部這邊來可是目前是依照113年3月27號的共識由新竹市政府在做理解當時提出來狀態就卡到兩件事情因為竹科這個部分地方真的沒辦法去整合\n\n14:45.429 --> 15:09.243\n因為他不只是新竹縣市的問題他還卡到了新竹科學園區的問題所以我們希望院長能夠指示部長這邊針對大新竹輕軌的時候能夠加把力讓大新竹輕軌變成桃竹苗大矽谷計畫很重要的一個配套的一個設施如果能夠跨到苗栗區因為\n\n15:10.043 --> 15:10.203\n好,謝謝鄭委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.388,"end":7.893,"text":"主席好,我想請一下卓榮泰院長委員長請備詢"},{"start":18.924,"end":35.749,"text":"院長好,就是NCC那個組織法其實在7月31號的時候總統府已經公佈了嘛,那那個明後來的時候呢其實還是用代理主委的方式去做這個事情,你覺得這個決策有沒有玩法弄權的嫌疑?"},{"start":38.39,"end":60.349,"text":"跟委員報告,我這個完全是一個必要的權宜措施,否則的話NCC在那個之後會變成無法執行它的政策跟業務,那這樣對國家的影響,對你們的影響會很大。 院長,因為我在想說,這個代理局這件事情的時候,因為我知道說你們用的是NCC組織法的第16條,那某個部分它確實是有一些"},{"start":62.571,"end":63.852,"text":"林立雲和王維京發文痛批NCC內部腐化"},{"start":88.8,"end":110.18,"text":"如為首長制,就溫柏中在10月7號的時候,受訪跳出來說他是依法行政,絕無不法。 院長你怎麼看這事情?從機關內部出來的人,對機關的批評,我想NCC包括代理主委跟所有的NCC同仁,甚至包括行政院都應該非常重視,如果屬實,"},{"start":112.546,"end":132.463,"text":"我聽到NCC在講依法行政的時候喊得這麼大聲我真的覺得非常非常的諷刺因為我覺得NCC根本就是打著依法行政的旗幹著違法亂政的事情我為什麼這麼講勒?"},{"start":136.155,"end":165.444,"text":"院長,你知道中天案在高等行政法院的時候判決下來,你有沒有看過這個證文、判決書?有,沒有很詳細,但我知道整個狀況。所以他的情況很清楚地講到,判決處主文裡面就很清楚地講到說,原處分撤銷。院長你知道這件事情嘛,對不對?是。你知道理由嗎?"},{"start":168.914,"end":188.053,"text":"這個判決來來去去有的是針對程序上的,很少針對實質內容的,這個我知道這個狀況是如此。所以判決處文很清楚地講到原處分撤銷,那個莫某宗你已經進到院會裡面來,那個我不擋你上台可是你不要講話,我不擋你上台你不要講話,來。"},{"start":189.654,"end":217.619,"text":"那個在中天換照案的那個訴訟案判決書裡面第21頁 院長他很清楚的直接講到說違反換照審查辦法第11條第三項後段就未來6年營運計畫各審查項目之評分基準規定 形同改變執照之核發標準 容以造成該五個審查項目之決策事實基礎錯誤"},{"start":219.574,"end":230.5,"text":"而資訊不完全,足以影響所評,為審議不予換照之結論,無從推算回復,原處分自與法有違。﹖"},{"start":236.923,"end":255.471,"text":"原處分與法有違,很清楚喔,所以為什麼我剛剛聽到翁柏宗在講說他完全依法行政的時候,我真的覺得超級諷刺,現在高等行政法院完全透過他的判決書狠狠地打臉NCC,"},{"start":257.708,"end":271.221,"text":"在這樣的一個情況之下的時候,院長你有什麼看法?我剛剛有請教代理主委,他說他現在NCC基於他的職權,他已經在上訴當中,既然在上訴,那這個在法院當中還要做最後的這個決定齁。"},{"start":276.064,"end":297.391,"text":"我們絕對尊重這些法律的程序可是在高等行政法院當中的判決書上寫得非常非常的清楚院長我直接跟你講一下他很清楚講到了NCC怎麼樣子違法亂政109年11月的時候中天換照的時候"},{"start":299.192,"end":317.718,"text":"根據衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業深色審查辦法,它在107年就已經更改了修正的所有的評分標準。NCC在109年的時候還是用105年的標準來做審查。"},{"start":321.957,"end":342.748,"text":"院長這麼簡單的一個邏輯的狀態我嚴重的懷疑NCC是蓄意是公然違法我跟委員提醒或許法律上大家還是可以再進一步去研究 申請設立的深色的審查跟所謂換照是兩套不同的準則標準來進行的那不能把它混為一談"},{"start":344.609,"end":370.219,"text":"換照當中的時候他一樣用了一個這樣子的一個審查的一個標準是判決書裡面針對院長提的這部分也很清楚提到了行政規則他沒有辦法去逾越母法的部分 院長你剛剛我讓汪博東站在你旁邊就是覺得你對這事情可能不一定了解的這麼透徹所以我讓他站在你旁邊可是我不想要讓他透過麥克風來講話因為我覺得他的身份是有爭議的所以"},{"start":373.015,"end":387.069,"text":"院長我希望你在針對依法行政這件事情的時候能夠好好的去考量因為NCC很明顯的狀態他打著維持媒體自由的旗幹著"},{"start":388.59,"end":388.75,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":404.275,"end":422.98,"text":"針對這個部分我這邊簡單講一下因為他還有更改的機會我們希望因為這兩個禮拜協商沒有成果和解飯也沒有成果下個禮拜還要繼續那我本來期待院長其實是可以說理論法的人那我們希望"},{"start":423.84,"end":453.16,"text":"在這個事情當中的時候 院長你要堅持住不要沉淪變成像NCC一樣打著依法行政的旗 幹著破壞違法行政的事情我們希望院長你堅持住這個部分好不好我會很堅持 憲法70條憲法的理論還有預算法91條裡面的規定憲法70條這個部分是預算審進來 送進立法院的時候我們在審的部分我們沒有辦法去增加它可是我們立法了之後"},{"start":454.12,"end":454.44,"text":"就是依照預算法91條"},{"start":478.722,"end":498.559,"text":"立法院在審視預算的時候,他要增加稅出的時候,要徵詢行政院的意見。我們現在針對立法的結果出來狀態的時候,你都完全不尊重的時候,我們希望,院長你這邊一定要真正的依法行政,不要沉淪變成像ACC。好,因為我這邊還有第二個問題我要問,就是"},{"start":503.07,"end":521.848,"text":"禮拜二的時候我講到桃樹苗大矽谷計畫那當時也提到了一個部分就是有關於才化法的一個修正那我提到了一個部分就是科學園區大矽谷計畫這邊的時候他納進去了大新竹輕軌這個計畫 院長你知道吧"},{"start":525.315,"end":541.169,"text":"那知道這個計畫當中的時候我當時提到了一件事情因為整個財化法的發展過程當中新竹市創稅全國第三可是得到的配回率全國最低"},{"start":542.782,"end":557.342,"text":"新竹市平均每一個人貢獻的中央的創稅是65萬,全國最高,比台北市、新北市都高,可是我們配回率是全國最低。你當時提到了一件事情,就是說你會用"},{"start":558.263,"end":580.756,"text":"一般性的補助給新竹市更多,對不對,我記得你當時是這樣回應。不是我回應,是行政院一直這樣在處理這些問題。可是我們看到的狀態並沒有,新竹市得到了一般性補助的時候,全國倒數第三,只比金門、馬祖高,比澎湖還要低。那這個部分呢,我為什麼特別提到這個情況。地方要提出需求,中央才能夠予以補助。"},{"start":582.037,"end":609.12,"text":"院長,所以我特別提到這個部分,我希望院長能夠去落實好久沒有大細股計畫裡面對於大新竹輕軌的一個主張。這邊有一個狀態,就是按地方上面他們去縮時攝影出來的結果的時候,新竹市去科學園區工作,大概平均每個人上下班要花兩個小時以上的車程。"},{"start":611.102,"end":639.449,"text":"我們認為如果新竹市有比較好的交通運輸系統的時候不只是對在園區工作的工程師對大新竹的人來說是好事而且對於竹科產值可以再進一步的向上提升因為每一個工程師幾乎都發他們每天上班時間的四分之一在交通上面所以本席也利用今天這個機會的時候希望院長能夠"},{"start":641.28,"end":668.293,"text":"出手來協助大輕軌新竹大輕軌的一個落實那我想請教一下院長你知道現在新竹大輕軌最大的問題在哪裡嗎?新竹縣市之間還是要談出一個可行的方法我們才可以進行有效的可行性的研究跟評估市政府應該已經在辦理這個可行報告可言報告的一個招標過程我所了解如此"},{"start":669.056,"end":670.457,"text":"報告委員﹖目前正在"},{"start":696.081,"end":724.406,"text":"新竹市政府在做可行性研究當中,那我們要等到明年的第一季,看他可不可以把可行性研究做完,報來交通部,那交通部該協助的部分都會協助。好,理解齁,院長我跟你提一下狀態齁,因為,大概新竹輕軌碰到兩個很大的問題,一個是沒有錢,所以我禮拜二特別提到財化法的問題,因為地方根本沒有財力去支應這樣子的一個重大建設,"},{"start":725.751,"end":754.662,"text":"第二個部分就是溝通的問題現在部長提到新竹市出來整合這樣子的一個可行性研究計畫我必須老實講喔院長你覺得一個跨縣市的一個可行性研究計畫大概需要多少錢看工程的難易度你直覺你覺得以新竹市你對新竹縣市一定熟嘛你對新竹縣市熟你覺得一個這樣的一個大輕軌的一個可行性研究你覺得大概需要多少錢"},{"start":756.11,"end":779.756,"text":"數百萬要要吧?數百萬喔?數百萬喔?做不起來,院長你真的不知道米價欸。9月份的時候新竹市政府用2200萬去做一個招標,流標,沒有人要來。因為它牽涉到的範圍非常的大。然後接下來預計要招標的費用大概要到四、五千萬。"},{"start":781.016,"end":807.31,"text":"然後我要特別提到因為新竹市政府的團隊跟新竹縣他們在今年3月初的時候拜會前副院長鄭文燦他找了交通部的鐵道局來希望交通部鐵道局他來整合新竹市縣市的一個網絡那當時新竹市政府說好他來做這樣子的一個配合先來做把這個招標動作把它弄出去可是現場他要求鐵道局補助"},{"start":808.8,"end":813.844,"text":"大新竹的輕軌對於解決大新竹地區的交通肯定是非常非常重要的那麼我們希望"},{"start":833.121,"end":837.503,"text":"如果新竹市政府提出需求還需要再更多的輔助可以來跟我講,他目前還沒有來講。"},{"start":862.113,"end":884.309,"text":"大新竹輕軌的時候也能夠比照辦理因為我們在110年曾經提過一個方案到交通部這邊來可是目前是依照113年3月27號的共識由新竹市政府在做理解 當時提出來狀態就卡到兩件事情因為竹科這個部分地方真的沒辦法去整合"},{"start":885.429,"end":909.243,"text":"因為他不只是新竹縣市的問題他還卡到了新竹科學園區的問題所以我們希望院長能夠指示部長這邊針對大新竹輕軌的時候能夠加把力讓大新竹輕軌變成桃竹苗大矽谷計畫很重要的一個配套的一個設施如果能夠跨到苗栗區因為"},{"start":910.043,"end":910.203,"text":"好,謝謝鄭委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":388,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（15時35分）主席好，我想請一下卓榮泰院長。"],["主席：卓院長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：院長好。NCC組織法在7月31號的時候總統府已經公布了，您後來其實還是用代理主委的方式去做這個事情，你覺得這個決策有沒有玩法弄權的嫌疑？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我這個完全是一個必要的權宜措施，否則的話NCC在那之後會變成無法執行它的政策跟業務，這樣對國家的影響、對人民影響會很大。"],["鄭委員正鈐：院長，我知道代理主委這件事情你們用的是NCC組織法第十六條，某個部分它確實是有一些可以解釋的空間，可是我們也覺得這個代理主委確實有爭議，因為我們確實也修正了這個法律。我現在要講的是，翁柏宗之前在暫代NCC主委的時候惹議，行政院這邊的說法是說依法辦理。NCC的前任委員林麗雲跟王維菁發文痛批NCC內部腐化，淪為首長制，結果翁柏宗在10月7號受訪時跳出來說他是依法行政，絕無不法。院長，你怎麼看這件事情？"],["卓院長榮泰：從機關內部出來的人對機關的批評，我想NCC，包括代理主委跟所有NCC的同仁，甚至包括行政院都應該非常重視，如果屬實，必當檢討，甚至要做更多重要的處分；如果不是，要充分向外界說明。"],["鄭委員正鈐：院長，我聽到NCC在講依法行政的時候喊得這麼大聲，我真的覺得非常非常的諷刺，因為我覺得NCC根本就是打著依法行政的旗，幹著違法亂政的事情，我為什麼這麼講呢？院長，中天案在高等行政法院的判決下來之後，你有沒有看過這個判決書主文？"],["卓院長榮泰：有。"],["鄭委員正鈐：你看過判決書對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有很詳細，但我知道整個狀況。"],["鄭委員正鈐：判決主文裡面就很清楚講到原處分撤銷。院長，你知道這件事情，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：你知道理由嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：判決來來去去，有的是針對程序上的，很少針對實質內容的，我知道狀況是如此。"],["鄭委員正鈐：判決主文很清楚的講到原處分撤銷……","翁柏宗，你已經進到院會裡面來，我不擋你上臺，可是你不要講話，我不擋你上臺，但你不要講話。在中天換照案的訴訟判決書第21頁裡面，它很清楚的直接講到「違反換照審查辦法第11條第3項後段就未來6年營運計畫各審查項目之評分基準規定，形同改變執照之核發標準，容已造成該5個審查項目之決策事實基礎錯誤而資訊不完全，足以影響所憑為審議不予換照之結論，無從推算回復，原處分自於法有違。」很清楚的講到它決策與事實的基礎錯誤，然後原處分於法有違，很清楚喔！所以為什麼我剛剛聽到翁柏宗在講說他完全依法行政的時候，我真的覺得超級諷刺，現在高等行政法院完全透過它的判決書，狠狠的打臉NCC，在這樣的一個情況之下，院長你有什麼看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛有請教代理主委，他說現在NCC基於職權已經在上訴當中。既然在上訴，這個在法院當中還要做最後的決定，所以讓他從法律的救濟上再去努力，把NCC的立場說明清楚。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解，我們絕對尊重這些法律的程序，可是在高等行政法院的判決書上寫得非常非常清楚，院長，我直接跟你講，它很清楚講到了NCC怎麼樣子違法亂政。109年11月中天換照的時候，根據衛星廣播電視事業及境外衛星廣播電視事業申設審查辦法，它在107年就已經修正了所有的評分標準，但NCC在109年的時候，還是用105年的標準來做審查。院長，這麼簡單的一個邏輯狀態，我嚴重的懷疑NCC是蓄意、是公然違法。"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟委員提醒，或許法律上大家還可以再進一步去研究，但申設的審查跟所謂換照是兩套不同的準則、標準來進行的，不能把它混為一談。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，換照當中，它一樣用了這樣的審查標準，所以判決書裡針對院長提的這個部分也很清楚提到了，行政規則沒有辦法去逾越母法。院長，我剛剛讓翁柏宗站在你旁邊，就是覺得你對這件事情可能不一定了解的這麼透澈……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個要看他上訴的狀況怎麼樣。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以我讓他站在你旁邊，可是我不想要讓他透過麥克風來講話，因為我覺得他的身分是有爭議的。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有爭議。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以院長，我希望你在針對依法行政這件事情的時候，能夠好好的去考量，因為NCC很明顯的狀態是它打著維持媒體自由的旗，幹著破壞新聞自由的事情。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有這樣子。"],["鄭委員正鈐：在這個狀態下，這個禮拜二的時候，我們提到了預算的相關問題，也提到了原民禁伐補償的部分，針對這個部分，我這邊簡單講一下，因為它還有更改的機會，因為這兩個禮拜協商沒有成果，和解飯也沒有成果，下個禮拜還要繼續。我覺得院長其實是可以說理論法的人，我們希望在這個事情當中，院長要堅持住，不要沉淪變成像NCC一樣，打著依法行政的旗，幹著破壞違法行政的事情，我們希望院長要堅持住這個部分，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我會很堅持憲法第七十條憲法的理論以及預算法第九十一條裡面的規定。"],["鄭委員正鈐：憲法第七十條這個部分是預算送進立法院後我們在審的部分，我們沒有辦法去增加它，可是我們立法了之後，你這邊本來就有依法編列預算的責任。還有一個點，你對外說你有編列4萬塊，對不對？就是禁伐補償你編列了4萬塊，然後你又指責我們編列6萬塊是違憲，那你編列4萬塊的法源是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是依照預算法第九十一條，立法院在審預算的時候，它要增加歲出的時候，要徵詢行政院的意見，我的意見就是4萬塊。"],["鄭委員正鈐：現在針對立法結果出來的狀態，你都完全不尊重的時候，我們希望……"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有不尊重。"],["鄭委員正鈐：院長，你這邊一定要真正的依法行政，不要沉淪變成像NCC。"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有不尊重。"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為我這邊還有第二個問題要問，禮拜二的時候我講到桃竹苗大矽谷計畫，當時也提到了一個部分，就是有關於財劃法的修正。我提到了一個部分，就是科學園區大矽谷計畫有把大新竹輕軌這個計畫納進去，院長知道吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：在這個計畫當中，我當時提到了一件事情，因為整個財劃法的發展過程當中，新竹市創稅是全國第三，可是配回率卻是全國最低。新竹市平均每一個人貢獻中央的創稅是65萬，為全國最高，比臺北市、新北市都還高，可是我們配回率卻是全國最低。你當時提到了一件事情，你說你會用一般性的補助給新竹市更多，對不對？我記得你當時是這樣回應。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是我會用，是行政院一直這樣在處理這些問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，可是我們看到的狀態並沒有，新竹市得到的一般性補助卻是全國倒數第三，只比金門、馬祖高，比澎湖還要低。這個部分，我為什麼特別提到這個情況……"],["卓院長榮泰：地方要提出需求，中央才能夠予以補助。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。院長，所以我特別提到這個部分，我希望院長能夠去落實桃竹苗大矽谷計畫裡面，對於大新竹輕軌的主張。這邊有一個狀態，就是按地方上面的人縮時攝影出來的結果，新竹市去科學園區工作大概每個人平均上下班要花兩個小時以上的車程。我們認為如果新竹市有比較好的交通運輸系統，不只是對在園區工作的工程師、對大新竹的人來說是好事，而且竹科產值可以再進一步的向上提升，因為每一個工程師幾乎都花他們每天上班時間的四分之一在交通上面，所以本席也利用今天這個機會，希望院長能夠出手來協助新竹大輕軌的落實。我想請教一下院長，你知道現在新竹大輕軌最大的問題在哪裡嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：新竹縣市之間還是要談出一個可行的方法，我們才可以進行有效的、可行性的研究跟評估，市政府應該已經在辦理可行性報告的招標過程，我所瞭解是如此。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。院長你講到幾個重點，現在大新竹輕軌的狀態因為有縣市的問題，還有竹科的問題，所以我們希望院長能夠指示讓交通部來統籌規劃，有沒有可能？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，新竹市政府目前正在做可行性研究當中，我們要等到明年的第一季，看他們可不可以把可行性研究做完並報來交通部，交通部該協助的部分都會協助。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，理解。院長，我跟你提一下狀態，大新竹輕軌碰到兩個很大的問題，一個是沒有錢，所以我禮拜二特別提到財劃法的問題，因為地方根本沒有財力去支應這樣的重大建設；第二個部分就是溝通的問題，現在部長提到新竹市出來整合這樣的可行性研究計畫，我必須老實講，院長，你覺得一個跨縣市的可行性研究計畫大概需要多少錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：看工程的難易度，這個沒有……"],["鄭委員正鈐：憑你的直覺，你對新竹縣市一定熟嘛！對於這樣一個大輕軌的可行性研究，你覺得大概需要多少錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：應該數百萬要吧！"],["鄭委員正鈐：數百萬喔，做不起來啦！院長，你真的不知道米價欸！"],["卓院長榮泰：做不起來？我真的不知道。"],["鄭委員正鈐：9月分的時候，新竹市政府用2,200萬去進行招標，但流標，沒有人要來，因為它牽涉到的範圍非常地大，接下來預計要招標的費用大概要到四、五千萬。我要特別提到，因為新竹市政府團隊跟新竹縣他們在今年3月初的時候拜會前副院長鄭文燦，他找了交通部鐵道局來，希望交通部鐵道局來整合新竹縣市的網絡；當時新竹市政府說好，他們來配合先把招標弄出去，可是在現場他們要求鐵道局補助。部長，你知道鐵道局願意給多少錢嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：請委員指示。"],["鄭委員正鈐：部長也不知道喔！鐵道局竟然回應說給100萬。"],["陳部長世凱：應該都會給，可是這個通常要看地方政府所提出的需求。"],["鄭委員正鈐：對，給100萬很少。我特別要提到這個狀態，就是大新竹輕軌對於解決大新竹地區的交通肯定是非常、非常重要的，我們希望交通部這邊能夠扮演起更積極的角色，就像……"],["陳部長世凱：委員，如果新竹市政府提出需求，還需要再更多的補助可以來跟我們講，他們目前還沒有來講。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。所以我在這邊也特別跟你提到一個狀態，就像桃機一樣，機場捷運是交通部這邊來做的，像基隆捷運一開始起頭的研究評估，都是鐵道局這邊做的，所以我們希望大新竹輕軌也能夠比照辦理，因為我們在110年曾經提過一個方案到交通部這邊……"],["陳部長世凱：可是目前是依照113年3月27號的共識，由新竹市政府在做。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。當時提出來的狀態就卡到兩件事情，因為竹科這個部分，地方真的沒辦法去整合，因為它不只是新竹縣市的問題，它還卡到新竹科學園區的問題，所以我們希望院長能夠指示部長，針對大新竹輕軌能夠加把力，讓大新竹輕軌變成桃竹苗大矽谷計畫很重要的一個配套設施，如果能夠跨到苗栗去，因為桃竹苗大矽谷計畫也到苗栗去，我覺得也許是更好的一個狀態。"],["卓院長榮泰：我會請新竹市政府趕快就它的都市發展營運計畫跟未來的各項條件，提出一個完整的說明出來。"],["主席：謝謝鄭委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位我們請黃建賓委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","郭國文","張嘉郡","柯志恩","林憶君","廖先翔","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","賴惠員","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","黃建賓","陳超明","吳琪銘","陳秀寳","徐巧芯","林倩綺","邱若華"],"page_start":44,"meetingDate":["2024-10-18"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00002","1138101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00008"}}}