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0.0}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 908.626, \"end\": 908.666, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 908.666, \"end\": 908.726, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 908.726, \"end\": 908.746, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,789 --> 00:00:13,991\n謝謝主席,我們有請院長,謝謝。請卓院長備詢。本席今天雖然要來跟院長討論交通的議題,但是本席更關心的是在交通議題後面的一個永續性的問題,也就是我們現在常講的sustainableissue,\n\n2\n00:00:38,241 --> 00:00:38,642\n主席主席\n\n3\n00:00:58,053 --> 00:01:14,466\n當我們在做觀光發展的時候我們常會碰到一個問題就是觀光相關單位的介入跟地方節慶的變質那這會導致生活文化面跟旅遊發展上的兩難那這個部分經常在發展\n\n4\n00:01:14,906 --> 00:01:15,086\n﹚林倩綺議員﹚\n\n5\n00:01:31,678 --> 00:01:53,960\n那地方節慶呢,在我國有很重要的一個地位。這個節慶是整個地方的集體記憶、歷史、文化傳統還有社群凝聚的表現。那有很重要的內涵,跟這個社群的意義,對這個社群的意義。但是觀光單位常常在發展觀光的時候,就跟地方的文化活動來結合。\n\n6\n00:01:56,042 --> 00:02:22,979\n但是在發展過後又沒有永續性的繼續推動。所以本席想要談的是目的導向的問題。地方節慶通常是當地社會的特定歷史背景﹐文化、習癖或宗教信仰形成的﹐目的是反映了對特定歷史事件﹐神話及自然現象的理解。但是觀光的節慶常常都是在於做商業行銷﹐\n\n7\n00:02:24,619 --> 00:02:43,260\n考慮如何吸引更多的遊客,所以在介入的過程當中常常把它混為一談,所以觀光單位缺乏對這些內涵的理解跟尊重,很容易將節慶化成表面上的一種觀光商品,忽略了核心的文化跟社會意義。\n\n8\n00:02:44,441 --> 00:03:01,839\n所以本席想在這邊請教院長政府在推動觀光的同時如何確保文化資源不會被過度的商品化那你們是不是有具體的政策來平衡文化的保護跟經濟發展避免地方結訓失去了文化價值\n\n9\n00:03:04,406 --> 00:03:32,936\n無論是經濟發展跟觀光我覺得保存當地的文化特色是應該列為優先的考量這樣才不會讓一個文化就消滅了甚至我們在協助或是參與各地的這種比較傳統性的節慶的時候也應該遵照他們主辦單位傳統以來的方式吸引更多人去是要看過去到現在這種生活記憶的累積而不是看現在用新的方式去改變他們的生活型態\n\n10\n00:03:33,556 --> 00:03:52,068\n我們可以在周遭用一些科技的方式來襯托現在的社會新形態的方方面面但是節慶、慶典本身文化的保存我覺得這個才是像全世界有很多文化遺產他們保存的也是這個精神台灣應該文明的朝向這個方向去進展\n\n11\n00:03:53,332 --> 00:04:02,576\n謝謝院長,所以我想跟您請教,所以如果您今天去參加原住民的祭儀,我們拿阿美族的豐年祭來講,你們知道什麼時候是可以去參觀的嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:04,019 --> 00:04:06,440\n謝謝院長,那所以您剛才講到了時間,所以觀光相關的單位有掌握到這一些細節嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:23,584 --> 00:04:31,293\n所以當你們在做行銷的時候或做資訊的傳達有沒有考慮到跟確實掌握這些細節這個是我對於這一點來給我們交通部\n\n14\n00:04:36,650 --> 00:04:45,154\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨\n\n15\n00:05:06,504 --> 00:05:35,119\n對不起,那個交通部,你們對這點有所知嗎?是,這個部分,如果要辦旅遊,跟部落相關的部分,或者是跟一些地方文化相關的部分,我們應該是要尊重地方文化。像自行車啊,然後什麼帆船比賽,你們對這個部分有知覺嗎?所以很多的一些活動,像現在賴總統在談的運動觀光,那如果它原本是競技型的比賽,也因為這種競技型的核心概念而展現出觀光的價值,\n\n16\n00:05:35,939 --> 00:05:37,460\n我會尊重地方的文化這個部分我會請他們注意\n\n17\n00:05:59,465 --> 00:06:23,028\n好的,謝謝。那第二個部分我們就談到國家級的那個綠道。那院長如果還有點印象的話本席在上一次的這個質詢也有提到步道那在當時的交通部部長也給本席提到了這個我們國家綠道所以這段時間本席有做了一些功課有關於國家綠道的這個內容那本席這邊想要提醒院長一件事情就是\n\n18\n00:06:24,569 --> 00:06:44,788\n這幾條目前你們有7條未來我不知道還會不會有更多我們期待有更多將臺灣連結起來所以這7條的國家綠廊分別由經濟部、交通部、農業部、原民會、客委會等部會目前在主責推動跟維護管理但是我不知道你們對於這整個步道的\n\n19\n00:06:45,248 --> 00:07:05,722\n整個推展是不是有了解它這個管理方式有沒有導致在推動及維護上缺乏的整體性跟協調性?那這個統一的規劃跟整體的行銷是不是因為事權不一而影響到綠島本身作為全國生態及文化旅遊的一個潛力呢?\n\n20\n00:07:05,722 --> 00:07:08,344\n行政院是不是有考慮到設立跨部會機構\n\n21\n00:07:09,765 --> 00:07:12,966\n如果這幾條的國家級綠道、步道分別這個相關的幾個部會或許真的是實際上是有關的,原住民、客家朋友或是他是經過農地\n\n22\n00:07:34,972 --> 00:07:37,635\n主管機關必須對維護或未來發展作考量。如果已經形成國家公園整個區域\n\n23\n00:07:50,310 --> 00:07:54,614\n我想基本上事權統一讓他整體推動ratherland而不是每一個部會各行其事好不好\n\n24\n00:08:13,015 --> 00:08:37,543\n好所以接下來這個東西也跟步道有點關係可是是自行車跟步道安全在我們推動的時候那當然自行車也是這種無動力的一種交通工具但是在設施的部分沒有系統性的規劃跟管理那這個本席其實有提到過在環島一號自行車車道跟全國的徒步路網其實有很多遊客或旅客會去走\n\n25\n00:08:38,183 --> 00:08:49,996\n但是北黎公路跟蘇花公路還有很多的隱憂,本席在之前的質詢也提到過,就像自行車道的車道跟騎士和大型車輛的路道\n\n26\n00:08:53,740 --> 00:09:20,165\n共用非常狹小的道路,增加了一些事故的風險。還有,臺灣的自行車道在連續性、安全性上也很不足。所以在先前的質詢當中,交通部其實承諾本席解決臺二線上面大卡車跟自行車道征道的問題。這個問題一直很困擾民眾,也導致了一些交通的隱憂。不曉得這個部長目前的進度如何?\n\n27\n00:09:20,868 --> 00:09:22,911\n請部長追蹤一下這件事情,具體的設施方案及改善。\n\n28\n00:09:35,868 --> 00:10:04,839\n好那接下來是這個全國環島徒步網的這個問題徒步的旅客也經常會碰到跟自行車一樣的道路狹窄然後最終許多車速過快這有動力的車然後步道連續性不足也是一個問題那針對像行人這樣也跟自行車一樣的弱勢族群我們讓他經常是在一個高風險區域在都會裡面也是一樣然後在城鎮之間也是一樣從一個運輸公平的觀點這個部分不知道\n\n29\n00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:05,419\n﹚市長﹚\n\n30\n00:10:29,486 --> 00:10:49,925\n我看這個畫面應該是花東那邊,確實很多人在行走或者是騎腳踏車甚至是摩托車本席也參加過這些活動我覺得這些部分確實是應該要做比較好的規劃,因為旁邊的車子其實跑得蠻快那如果沒有做比較好的規劃其實對於那些要步行的人來說是相對危險的\n\n31\n00:10:50,766 --> 00:10:51,868\n主席\n\n32\n00:11:08,450 --> 00:11:27,465\n好謝謝那接下來很快的我們都知道我們要進入高齡化的社會那對於這個高齡人口來講呢這個交通事故中死亡率居高不下那我這邊很直接的提出來就是斑馬線設置的時間過短我相信這個應該現在大家有注意到這一點\n\n33\n00:11:28,226 --> 00:11:50,331\n另外設施不完善在都會裡面一樣那都會外更不用講那很多時候在鄉下也是一樣部落裡面更是有一些那個不是只有連外道路部落裡面就像那個金針山大家上山的那條路是部落裡面很重要的一個生活空間那這種很急速的這個車子跟生活空間\n\n34\n00:11:50,811 --> 00:11:50,831\n臨時評論委員\n\n35\n00:12:20,306 --> 00:12:22,547\n在這個交通目前部落的這個邊坡其實沒有相關的檢視那也就是說ABC的分級跟處理交通部目前沒有資料\n\n36\n00:12:43,732 --> 00:13:05,872\n那所以我在上次提到有關於這個部落的這個邊坡相關的這個問題我們目前沒有下文,所以不知道這個目前的進度如何?我是針對省道跟國道還有鐵路的部分我們邊坡我們都有做管理,但是因為部落大部分是鄉道或者是縣道,那這個部分確實交通部沒有進入去處理這一塊,確實是\n\n37\n00:13:06,513 --> 00:13:07,473\n最後要提到一個很重要的問題\n\n38\n00:13:34,127 --> 00:13:38,735\n是一個免簽政策跟非法滯留的問題,這現在引起了很嚴重的狀況。\n\n39\n00:13:41,449 --> 00:14:08,491\n這其實牽扯到是一個短期的經濟利益跟長期社會成本的一個衝突我想這幾天那本席在這邊也收到很多的投訴我們為了推展觀光然後開放了很多免簽甚至有些國家我們提供了他們補助來台灣為了衝高這個數字但是導致一個很嚴重的問題就是非法滯留請問院長您知道現在非法滯留有多少人嗎?\n\n40\n00:14:09,472 --> 00:14:37,819\n這是非常嚴重的國安問題我會請監管單位把人數跟他們怎麼防範做一個有效的報告本席這邊研究出來的人數至少目前有9萬人這個比例非常的高非法滯留有9萬人那這就是如同你講的是個國安問題所以它不僅是對社會產生很嚴重的問題對我們觀光發展真的是正面的嗎\n\n41\n00:14:38,899 --> 00:14:40,039\n從哪邊付的?我請教這個是不是有包括一些逃逸的移工在內?\n\n42\n00:15:08,626 --> 00:15:08,746\n好謝謝林委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9789\t13991\t謝謝主席,我們有請院長,謝謝。 請卓院長備詢。本席今天雖然要來跟院長討論交通的議題,但是本席更關心的是在交通議題後面的一個永續性的問題,也就是我們現在常講的sustainable issue,\n38241\t38642\t主席主席\n58053\t74466\t當我們在做觀光發展的時候我們常會碰到一個問題就是觀光相關單位的介入跟地方節慶的變質那這會導致生活文化面跟旅遊發展上的兩難那這個部分經常在發展\n74906\t75086\t﹚林倩綺議員﹚\n91678\t113960\t那地方節慶呢,在我國有很重要的一個地位。 這個節慶是整個地方的集體記憶、歷史、文化傳統還有社群凝聚的表現。 那有很重要的內涵,跟這個社群的意義,對這個社群的意義。 但是觀光單位常常在發展觀光的時候,就跟地方的文化活動來結合。\n116042\t142979\t但是在發展過後又沒有永續性的繼續推動。 所以本席想要談的是目的導向的問題。 地方節慶通常是當地社會的特定歷史背景﹐文化、習癖或宗教信仰形成的﹐目的是反映了對特定歷史事件﹐神話及自然現象的理解。 但是觀光的節慶常常都是在於做商業行銷﹐\n144619\t163260\t考慮如何吸引更多的遊客,所以在介入的過程當中常常把它混為一談,所以觀光單位缺乏對這些內涵的理解跟尊重,很容易將節慶化成表面上的一種觀光商品,忽略了核心的文化跟社會意義。\n164441\t181839\t所以本席想在這邊請教院長政府在推動觀光的同時如何確保文化資源不會被過度的商品化那你們是不是有具體的政策來平衡文化的保護跟經濟發展避免地方結訓失去了文化價值\n184406\t212936\t無論是經濟發展跟觀光我覺得保存當地的文化特色是應該列為優先的考量這樣才不會讓一個文化就消滅了甚至我們在協助或是參與各地的這種比較傳統性的節慶的時候也應該遵照他們主辦單位傳統以來的方式吸引更多人去是要看過去到現在這種生活記憶的累積而不是看現在用新的方式去改變他們的生活型態\n213556\t232068\t我們可以在周遭用一些科技的方式來襯托現在的社會新形態的方方面面但是節慶、慶典本身文化的保存我覺得這個才是像全世界有很多文化遺產他們保存的也是這個精神台灣應該文明的朝向這個方向去進展\n233332\t242576\t謝謝院長,所以我想跟您請教,所以如果您今天去參加原住民的祭儀,我們拿阿美族的豐年祭來講,你們知道什麼時候是可以去參觀的嗎?\n244019\t246440\t謝謝院長,那所以您剛才講到了時間,所以觀光相關的單位有掌握到這一些細節嗎?\n263584\t271293\t所以當你們在做行銷的時候或做資訊的傳達有沒有考慮到跟確實掌握這些細節這個是我對於這一點來給我們交通部\n276650\t285154\t三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨\n306504\t335119\t對不起,那個交通部,你們對這點有所知嗎?是,這個部分,如果要辦旅遊,跟部落相關的部分,或者是跟一些地方文化相關的部分,我們應該是要尊重地方文化。像自行車啊,然後什麼帆船比賽,你們對這個部分有知覺嗎?所以很多的一些活動,像現在賴總統在談的運動觀光,那如果它原本是競技型的比賽,也因為這種競技型的核心概念而展現出觀光的價值,\n335939\t337460\t我會尊重地方的文化這個部分我會請他們注意\n359465\t383028\t好的,謝謝。那第二個部分我們就談到國家級的那個綠道。那院長如果還有點印象的話本席在上一次的這個質詢也有提到步道那在當時的交通部部長也給本席提到了這個我們國家綠道所以這段時間本席有做了一些功課有關於國家綠道的這個內容那本席這邊想要提醒院長一件事情就是\n384569\t404788\t這幾條目前你們有7條未來我不知道還會不會有更多我們期待有更多將臺灣連結起來所以這7條的國家綠廊分別由經濟部、交通部、農業部、原民會、客委會等部會目前在主責推動跟維護管理但是我不知道你們對於這整個步道的\n405248\t425722\t整個推展是不是有了解它這個管理方式有沒有導致在推動及維護上缺乏的整體性跟協調性?那這個統一的規劃跟整體的行銷是不是因為事權不一而影響到綠島本身作為全國生態及文化旅遊的一個潛力呢?\n425722\t428344\t行政院是不是有考慮到設立跨部會機構\n429765\t432966\t如果這幾條的國家級綠道、步道分別這個相關的幾個部會或許真的是實際上是有關的,原住民、客家朋友或是他是經過農地\n454972\t457635\t主管機關必須對維護或未來發展作考量。 如果已經形成國家公園整個區域\n470310\t474614\t我想基本上事權統一讓他整體推動ratherland而不是每一個部會各行其事好不好\n493015\t517543\t好所以接下來這個東西也跟步道有點關係可是是自行車跟步道安全在我們推動的時候那當然自行車也是這種無動力的一種交通工具但是在設施的部分沒有系統性的規劃跟管理那這個本席其實有提到過在環島一號自行車車道跟全國的徒步路網其實有很多遊客或旅客會去走\n518183\t529996\t但是北黎公路跟蘇花公路還有很多的隱憂,本席在之前的質詢也提到過,就像自行車道的車道跟騎士和大型車輛的路道\n533740\t560165\t共用非常狹小的道路,增加了一些事故的風險。 還有,臺灣的自行車道在連續性、安全性上也很不足。 所以在先前的質詢當中,交通部其實承諾本席解決臺二線上面大卡車跟自行車道征道的問題。 這個問題一直很困擾民眾,也導致了一些交通的隱憂。 不曉得這個部長目前的進度如何?\n560868\t562911\t請部長追蹤一下這件事情,具體的設施方案及改善。\n575868\t604839\t好那接下來是這個全國環島徒步網的這個問題徒步的旅客也經常會碰到跟自行車一樣的道路狹窄然後最終許多車速過快這有動力的車然後步道連續性不足也是一個問題那針對像行人這樣也跟自行車一樣的弱勢族群我們讓他經常是在一個高風險區域在都會裡面也是一樣然後在城鎮之間也是一樣從一個運輸公平的觀點這個部分不知道\n605399\t605419\t﹚市長﹚\n629486\t649925\t我看這個畫面應該是花東那邊,確實很多人在行走或者是騎腳踏車甚至是摩托車本席也參加過這些活動我覺得這些部分確實是應該要做比較好的規劃,因為旁邊的車子其實跑得蠻快那如果沒有做比較好的規劃其實對於那些要步行的人來說是相對危險的\n650766\t651868\t主席\n668450\t687465\t好 謝謝那接下來很快的我們都知道我們要進入高齡化的社會那對於這個高齡人口來講呢這個交通事故中死亡率居高不下那我這邊很直接的提出來就是斑馬線設置的時間過短我相信這個應該現在大家有注意到這一點\n688226\t710331\t另外設施不完善在都會裡面一樣那都會外更不用講那很多時候在鄉下也是一樣部落裡面更是有一些那個不是只有連外道路部落裡面就像那個金針山大家上山的那條路是部落裡面很重要的一個生活空間那這種很急速的這個車子跟生活空間\n710811\t710831\t臨時評論委員\n740306\t742547\t在這個交通目前部落的這個邊坡其實沒有相關的檢視那也就是說ABC的分級跟處理交通部目前沒有資料\n763732\t785872\t那所以我在上次提到有關於這個部落的這個邊坡相關的這個問題我們目前沒有下文,所以不知道這個目前的進度如何?我是針對省道跟國道還有鐵路的部分我們邊坡我們都有做管理,但是因為部落大部分是鄉道或者是縣道,那這個部分確實交通部沒有進入去處理這一塊,確實是\n786513\t787473\t最後要提到一個很重要的問題\n814127\t818735\t是一個免簽政策跟非法滯留的問題,這現在引起了很嚴重的狀況。\n821449\t848491\t這其實牽扯到是一個短期的經濟利益跟長期社會成本的一個衝突我想這幾天那本席在這邊也收到很多的投訴我們為了推展觀光然後開放了很多免簽甚至有些國家我們提供了他們補助來台灣為了衝高這個數字但是導致一個很嚴重的問題就是非法滯留請問院長您知道現在非法滯留有多少人嗎?\n849472\t877819\t這是非常嚴重的國安問題我會請監管單位把人數跟他們怎麼防範做一個有效的報告本席這邊研究出來的人數至少目前有9萬人這個比例非常的高非法滯留有9萬人那這就是如同你講的是個國安問題所以它不僅是對社會產生很嚴重的問題對我們觀光發展真的是正面的嗎\n878899\t880039\t從哪邊付的?我請教這個是不是有包括一些逃逸的移工在內?\n908626\t908746\t好 謝謝林委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們有請院長,謝謝。 請卓院長備詢。本席今天雖然要來跟院長討論交通的議題,但是本席更關心的是在交通議題後面的一個永續性的問題,也就是我們現在常講的sustainable issue,\n主席主席\n當我們在做觀光發展的時候我們常會碰到一個問題就是觀光相關單位的介入跟地方節慶的變質那這會導致生活文化面跟旅遊發展上的兩難那這個部分經常在發展\n﹚林倩綺議員﹚\n那地方節慶呢,在我國有很重要的一個地位。 這個節慶是整個地方的集體記憶、歷史、文化傳統還有社群凝聚的表現。 那有很重要的內涵,跟這個社群的意義,對這個社群的意義。 但是觀光單位常常在發展觀光的時候,就跟地方的文化活動來結合。\n但是在發展過後又沒有永續性的繼續推動。 所以本席想要談的是目的導向的問題。 地方節慶通常是當地社會的特定歷史背景﹐文化、習癖或宗教信仰形成的﹐目的是反映了對特定歷史事件﹐神話及自然現象的理解。 但是觀光的節慶常常都是在於做商業行銷﹐\n考慮如何吸引更多的遊客,所以在介入的過程當中常常把它混為一談,所以觀光單位缺乏對這些內涵的理解跟尊重,很容易將節慶化成表面上的一種觀光商品,忽略了核心的文化跟社會意義。\n所以本席想在這邊請教院長政府在推動觀光的同時如何確保文化資源不會被過度的商品化那你們是不是有具體的政策來平衡文化的保護跟經濟發展避免地方結訓失去了文化價值\n無論是經濟發展跟觀光我覺得保存當地的文化特色是應該列為優先的考量這樣才不會讓一個文化就消滅了甚至我們在協助或是參與各地的這種比較傳統性的節慶的時候也應該遵照他們主辦單位傳統以來的方式吸引更多人去是要看過去到現在這種生活記憶的累積而不是看現在用新的方式去改變他們的生活型態\n我們可以在周遭用一些科技的方式來襯托現在的社會新形態的方方面面但是節慶、慶典本身文化的保存我覺得這個才是像全世界有很多文化遺產他們保存的也是這個精神台灣應該文明的朝向這個方向去進展\n謝謝院長,所以我想跟您請教,所以如果您今天去參加原住民的祭儀,我們拿阿美族的豐年祭來講,你們知道什麼時候是可以去參觀的嗎?\n謝謝院長,那所以您剛才講到了時間,所以觀光相關的單位有掌握到這一些細節嗎?\n所以當你們在做行銷的時候或做資訊的傳達有沒有考慮到跟確實掌握這些細節這個是我對於這一點來給我們交通部\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨\n對不起,那個交通部,你們對這點有所知嗎?是,這個部分,如果要辦旅遊,跟部落相關的部分,或者是跟一些地方文化相關的部分,我們應該是要尊重地方文化。像自行車啊,然後什麼帆船比賽,你們對這個部分有知覺嗎?所以很多的一些活動,像現在賴總統在談的運動觀光,那如果它原本是競技型的比賽,也因為這種競技型的核心概念而展現出觀光的價值,\n我會尊重地方的文化這個部分我會請他們注意\n好的,謝謝。那第二個部分我們就談到國家級的那個綠道。那院長如果還有點印象的話本席在上一次的這個質詢也有提到步道那在當時的交通部部長也給本席提到了這個我們國家綠道所以這段時間本席有做了一些功課有關於國家綠道的這個內容那本席這邊想要提醒院長一件事情就是\n這幾條目前你們有7條未來我不知道還會不會有更多我們期待有更多將臺灣連結起來所以這7條的國家綠廊分別由經濟部、交通部、農業部、原民會、客委會等部會目前在主責推動跟維護管理但是我不知道你們對於這整個步道的\n整個推展是不是有了解它這個管理方式有沒有導致在推動及維護上缺乏的整體性跟協調性?那這個統一的規劃跟整體的行銷是不是因為事權不一而影響到綠島本身作為全國生態及文化旅遊的一個潛力呢?\n行政院是不是有考慮到設立跨部會機構\n如果這幾條的國家級綠道、步道分別這個相關的幾個部會或許真的是實際上是有關的,原住民、客家朋友或是他是經過農地\n主管機關必須對維護或未來發展作考量。 如果已經形成國家公園整個區域\n我想基本上事權統一讓他整體推動ratherland而不是每一個部會各行其事好不好\n好所以接下來這個東西也跟步道有點關係可是是自行車跟步道安全在我們推動的時候那當然自行車也是這種無動力的一種交通工具但是在設施的部分沒有系統性的規劃跟管理那這個本席其實有提到過在環島一號自行車車道跟全國的徒步路網其實有很多遊客或旅客會去走\n但是北黎公路跟蘇花公路還有很多的隱憂,本席在之前的質詢也提到過,就像自行車道的車道跟騎士和大型車輛的路道\n共用非常狹小的道路,增加了一些事故的風險。 還有,臺灣的自行車道在連續性、安全性上也很不足。 所以在先前的質詢當中,交通部其實承諾本席解決臺二線上面大卡車跟自行車道征道的問題。 這個問題一直很困擾民眾,也導致了一些交通的隱憂。 不曉得這個部長目前的進度如何?\n請部長追蹤一下這件事情,具體的設施方案及改善。\n好那接下來是這個全國環島徒步網的這個問題徒步的旅客也經常會碰到跟自行車一樣的道路狹窄然後最終許多車速過快這有動力的車然後步道連續性不足也是一個問題那針對像行人這樣也跟自行車一樣的弱勢族群我們讓他經常是在一個高風險區域在都會裡面也是一樣然後在城鎮之間也是一樣從一個運輸公平的觀點這個部分不知道\n﹚市長﹚\n我看這個畫面應該是花東那邊,確實很多人在行走或者是騎腳踏車甚至是摩托車本席也參加過這些活動我覺得這些部分確實是應該要做比較好的規劃,因為旁邊的車子其實跑得蠻快那如果沒有做比較好的規劃其實對於那些要步行的人來說是相對危險的\n主席\n好 謝謝那接下來很快的我們都知道我們要進入高齡化的社會那對於這個高齡人口來講呢這個交通事故中死亡率居高不下那我這邊很直接的提出來就是斑馬線設置的時間過短我相信這個應該現在大家有注意到這一點\n另外設施不完善在都會裡面一樣那都會外更不用講那很多時候在鄉下也是一樣部落裡面更是有一些那個不是只有連外道路部落裡面就像那個金針山大家上山的那條路是部落裡面很重要的一個生活空間那這種很急速的這個車子跟生活空間\n臨時評論委員\n在這個交通目前部落的這個邊坡其實沒有相關的檢視那也就是說ABC的分級跟處理交通部目前沒有資料\n那所以我在上次提到有關於這個部落的這個邊坡相關的這個問題我們目前沒有下文,所以不知道這個目前的進度如何?我是針對省道跟國道還有鐵路的部分我們邊坡我們都有做管理,但是因為部落大部分是鄉道或者是縣道,那這個部分確實交通部沒有進入去處理這一塊,確實是\n最後要提到一個很重要的問題\n是一個免簽政策跟非法滯留的問題,這現在引起了很嚴重的狀況。\n這其實牽扯到是一個短期的經濟利益跟長期社會成本的一個衝突我想這幾天那本席在這邊也收到很多的投訴我們為了推展觀光然後開放了很多免簽甚至有些國家我們提供了他們補助來台灣為了衝高這個數字但是導致一個很嚴重的問題就是非法滯留請問院長您知道現在非法滯留有多少人嗎?\n這是非常嚴重的國安問題我會請監管單位把人數跟他們怎麼防範做一個有效的報告本席這邊研究出來的人數至少目前有9萬人這個比例非常的高非法滯留有9萬人那這就是如同你講的是個國安問題所以它不僅是對社會產生很嚴重的問題對我們觀光發展真的是正面的嗎\n從哪邊付的?我請教這個是不是有包括一些逃逸的移工在內?\n好 謝謝林委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.789 --> 00:13.991\n謝謝主席,我們有請院長,謝謝。請卓院長備詢。本席今天雖然要來跟院長討論交通的議題,但是本席更關心的是在交通議題後面的一個永續性的問題,也就是我們現在常講的sustainableissue,\n\n00:38.241 --> 00:38.642\n主席主席\n\n00:58.053 --> 01:14.466\n當我們在做觀光發展的時候我們常會碰到一個問題就是觀光相關單位的介入跟地方節慶的變質那這會導致生活文化面跟旅遊發展上的兩難那這個部分經常在發展\n\n01:14.906 --> 01:15.086\n﹚林倩綺議員﹚\n\n01:31.678 --> 01:53.960\n那地方節慶呢,在我國有很重要的一個地位。這個節慶是整個地方的集體記憶、歷史、文化傳統還有社群凝聚的表現。那有很重要的內涵,跟這個社群的意義,對這個社群的意義。但是觀光單位常常在發展觀光的時候,就跟地方的文化活動來結合。\n\n01:56.042 --> 02:22.979\n但是在發展過後又沒有永續性的繼續推動。所以本席想要談的是目的導向的問題。地方節慶通常是當地社會的特定歷史背景﹐文化、習癖或宗教信仰形成的﹐目的是反映了對特定歷史事件﹐神話及自然現象的理解。但是觀光的節慶常常都是在於做商業行銷﹐\n\n02:24.619 --> 02:43.260\n考慮如何吸引更多的遊客,所以在介入的過程當中常常把它混為一談,所以觀光單位缺乏對這些內涵的理解跟尊重,很容易將節慶化成表面上的一種觀光商品,忽略了核心的文化跟社會意義。\n\n02:44.441 --> 03:01.839\n所以本席想在這邊請教院長政府在推動觀光的同時如何確保文化資源不會被過度的商品化那你們是不是有具體的政策來平衡文化的保護跟經濟發展避免地方結訓失去了文化價值\n\n03:04.406 --> 03:32.936\n無論是經濟發展跟觀光我覺得保存當地的文化特色是應該列為優先的考量這樣才不會讓一個文化就消滅了甚至我們在協助或是參與各地的這種比較傳統性的節慶的時候也應該遵照他們主辦單位傳統以來的方式吸引更多人去是要看過去到現在這種生活記憶的累積而不是看現在用新的方式去改變他們的生活型態\n\n03:33.556 --> 03:52.068\n我們可以在周遭用一些科技的方式來襯托現在的社會新形態的方方面面但是節慶、慶典本身文化的保存我覺得這個才是像全世界有很多文化遺產他們保存的也是這個精神台灣應該文明的朝向這個方向去進展\n\n03:53.332 --> 04:02.576\n謝謝院長,所以我想跟您請教,所以如果您今天去參加原住民的祭儀,我們拿阿美族的豐年祭來講,你們知道什麼時候是可以去參觀的嗎?\n\n04:04.019 --> 04:06.440\n謝謝院長,那所以您剛才講到了時間,所以觀光相關的單位有掌握到這一些細節嗎?\n\n04:23.584 --> 04:31.293\n所以當你們在做行銷的時候或做資訊的傳達有沒有考慮到跟確實掌握這些細節這個是我對於這一點來給我們交通部\n\n04:36.650 --> 04:45.154\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨\n\n05:06.504 --> 05:35.119\n對不起,那個交通部,你們對這點有所知嗎?是,這個部分,如果要辦旅遊,跟部落相關的部分,或者是跟一些地方文化相關的部分,我們應該是要尊重地方文化。像自行車啊,然後什麼帆船比賽,你們對這個部分有知覺嗎?所以很多的一些活動,像現在賴總統在談的運動觀光,那如果它原本是競技型的比賽,也因為這種競技型的核心概念而展現出觀光的價值,\n\n05:35.939 --> 05:37.460\n我會尊重地方的文化這個部分我會請他們注意\n\n05:59.465 --> 06:23.028\n好的,謝謝。那第二個部分我們就談到國家級的那個綠道。那院長如果還有點印象的話本席在上一次的這個質詢也有提到步道那在當時的交通部部長也給本席提到了這個我們國家綠道所以這段時間本席有做了一些功課有關於國家綠道的這個內容那本席這邊想要提醒院長一件事情就是\n\n06:24.569 --> 06:44.788\n這幾條目前你們有7條未來我不知道還會不會有更多我們期待有更多將臺灣連結起來所以這7條的國家綠廊分別由經濟部、交通部、農業部、原民會、客委會等部會目前在主責推動跟維護管理但是我不知道你們對於這整個步道的\n\n06:45.248 --> 07:05.722\n整個推展是不是有了解它這個管理方式有沒有導致在推動及維護上缺乏的整體性跟協調性?那這個統一的規劃跟整體的行銷是不是因為事權不一而影響到綠島本身作為全國生態及文化旅遊的一個潛力呢?\n\n07:05.722 --> 07:08.344\n行政院是不是有考慮到設立跨部會機構\n\n07:09.765 --> 07:12.966\n如果這幾條的國家級綠道、步道分別這個相關的幾個部會或許真的是實際上是有關的,原住民、客家朋友或是他是經過農地\n\n07:34.972 --> 07:37.635\n主管機關必須對維護或未來發展作考量。如果已經形成國家公園整個區域\n\n07:50.310 --> 07:54.614\n我想基本上事權統一讓他整體推動ratherland而不是每一個部會各行其事好不好\n\n08:13.015 --> 08:37.543\n好所以接下來這個東西也跟步道有點關係可是是自行車跟步道安全在我們推動的時候那當然自行車也是這種無動力的一種交通工具但是在設施的部分沒有系統性的規劃跟管理那這個本席其實有提到過在環島一號自行車車道跟全國的徒步路網其實有很多遊客或旅客會去走\n\n08:38.183 --> 08:49.996\n但是北黎公路跟蘇花公路還有很多的隱憂,本席在之前的質詢也提到過,就像自行車道的車道跟騎士和大型車輛的路道\n\n08:53.740 --> 09:20.165\n共用非常狹小的道路,增加了一些事故的風險。還有,臺灣的自行車道在連續性、安全性上也很不足。所以在先前的質詢當中,交通部其實承諾本席解決臺二線上面大卡車跟自行車道征道的問題。這個問題一直很困擾民眾,也導致了一些交通的隱憂。不曉得這個部長目前的進度如何?\n\n09:20.868 --> 09:22.911\n請部長追蹤一下這件事情,具體的設施方案及改善。\n\n09:35.868 --> 10:04.839\n好那接下來是這個全國環島徒步網的這個問題徒步的旅客也經常會碰到跟自行車一樣的道路狹窄然後最終許多車速過快這有動力的車然後步道連續性不足也是一個問題那針對像行人這樣也跟自行車一樣的弱勢族群我們讓他經常是在一個高風險區域在都會裡面也是一樣然後在城鎮之間也是一樣從一個運輸公平的觀點這個部分不知道\n\n10:05.399 --> 10:05.419\n﹚市長﹚\n\n10:29.486 --> 10:49.925\n我看這個畫面應該是花東那邊,確實很多人在行走或者是騎腳踏車甚至是摩托車本席也參加過這些活動我覺得這些部分確實是應該要做比較好的規劃,因為旁邊的車子其實跑得蠻快那如果沒有做比較好的規劃其實對於那些要步行的人來說是相對危險的\n\n10:50.766 --> 10:51.868\n主席\n\n11:08.450 --> 11:27.465\n好謝謝那接下來很快的我們都知道我們要進入高齡化的社會那對於這個高齡人口來講呢這個交通事故中死亡率居高不下那我這邊很直接的提出來就是斑馬線設置的時間過短我相信這個應該現在大家有注意到這一點\n\n11:28.226 --> 11:50.331\n另外設施不完善在都會裡面一樣那都會外更不用講那很多時候在鄉下也是一樣部落裡面更是有一些那個不是只有連外道路部落裡面就像那個金針山大家上山的那條路是部落裡面很重要的一個生活空間那這種很急速的這個車子跟生活空間\n\n11:50.811 --> 11:50.831\n臨時評論委員\n\n12:20.306 --> 12:22.547\n在這個交通目前部落的這個邊坡其實沒有相關的檢視那也就是說ABC的分級跟處理交通部目前沒有資料\n\n12:43.732 --> 13:05.872\n那所以我在上次提到有關於這個部落的這個邊坡相關的這個問題我們目前沒有下文,所以不知道這個目前的進度如何?我是針對省道跟國道還有鐵路的部分我們邊坡我們都有做管理,但是因為部落大部分是鄉道或者是縣道,那這個部分確實交通部沒有進入去處理這一塊,確實是\n\n13:06.513 --> 13:07.473\n最後要提到一個很重要的問題\n\n13:34.127 --> 13:38.735\n是一個免簽政策跟非法滯留的問題,這現在引起了很嚴重的狀況。\n\n13:41.449 --> 14:08.491\n這其實牽扯到是一個短期的經濟利益跟長期社會成本的一個衝突我想這幾天那本席在這邊也收到很多的投訴我們為了推展觀光然後開放了很多免簽甚至有些國家我們提供了他們補助來台灣為了衝高這個數字但是導致一個很嚴重的問題就是非法滯留請問院長您知道現在非法滯留有多少人嗎?\n\n14:09.472 --> 14:37.819\n這是非常嚴重的國安問題我會請監管單位把人數跟他們怎麼防範做一個有效的報告本席這邊研究出來的人數至少目前有9萬人這個比例非常的高非法滯留有9萬人那這就是如同你講的是個國安問題所以它不僅是對社會產生很嚴重的問題對我們觀光發展真的是正面的嗎\n\n14:38.899 --> 14:40.039\n從哪邊付的?我請教這個是不是有包括一些逃逸的移工在內?\n\n15:08.626 --> 15:08.746\n好謝謝林委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.789,"end":13.991,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請院長,謝謝。 請卓院長備詢。本席今天雖然要來跟院長討論交通的議題,但是本席更關心的是在交通議題後面的一個永續性的問題,也就是我們現在常講的sustainable issue,"},{"start":38.241,"end":38.642,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":58.053,"end":74.466,"text":"當我們在做觀光發展的時候我們常會碰到一個問題就是觀光相關單位的介入跟地方節慶的變質那這會導致生活文化面跟旅遊發展上的兩難那這個部分經常在發展"},{"start":74.906,"end":75.086,"text":"﹚林倩綺議員﹚"},{"start":91.678,"end":113.96,"text":"那地方節慶呢,在我國有很重要的一個地位。 這個節慶是整個地方的集體記憶、歷史、文化傳統還有社群凝聚的表現。 那有很重要的內涵,跟這個社群的意義,對這個社群的意義。 但是觀光單位常常在發展觀光的時候,就跟地方的文化活動來結合。"},{"start":116.042,"end":142.979,"text":"但是在發展過後又沒有永續性的繼續推動。 所以本席想要談的是目的導向的問題。 地方節慶通常是當地社會的特定歷史背景﹐文化、習癖或宗教信仰形成的﹐目的是反映了對特定歷史事件﹐神話及自然現象的理解。 但是觀光的節慶常常都是在於做商業行銷﹐"},{"start":144.619,"end":163.26,"text":"考慮如何吸引更多的遊客,所以在介入的過程當中常常把它混為一談,所以觀光單位缺乏對這些內涵的理解跟尊重,很容易將節慶化成表面上的一種觀光商品,忽略了核心的文化跟社會意義。"},{"start":164.441,"end":181.839,"text":"所以本席想在這邊請教院長政府在推動觀光的同時如何確保文化資源不會被過度的商品化那你們是不是有具體的政策來平衡文化的保護跟經濟發展避免地方結訓失去了文化價值"},{"start":184.406,"end":212.936,"text":"無論是經濟發展跟觀光我覺得保存當地的文化特色是應該列為優先的考量這樣才不會讓一個文化就消滅了甚至我們在協助或是參與各地的這種比較傳統性的節慶的時候也應該遵照他們主辦單位傳統以來的方式吸引更多人去是要看過去到現在這種生活記憶的累積而不是看現在用新的方式去改變他們的生活型態"},{"start":213.556,"end":232.068,"text":"我們可以在周遭用一些科技的方式來襯托現在的社會新形態的方方面面但是節慶、慶典本身文化的保存我覺得這個才是像全世界有很多文化遺產他們保存的也是這個精神台灣應該文明的朝向這個方向去進展"},{"start":233.332,"end":242.576,"text":"謝謝院長,所以我想跟您請教,所以如果您今天去參加原住民的祭儀,我們拿阿美族的豐年祭來講,你們知道什麼時候是可以去參觀的嗎?"},{"start":244.019,"end":246.44,"text":"謝謝院長,那所以您剛才講到了時間,所以觀光相關的單位有掌握到這一些細節嗎?"},{"start":263.584,"end":271.293,"text":"所以當你們在做行銷的時候或做資訊的傳達有沒有考慮到跟確實掌握這些細節這個是我對於這一點來給我們交通部"},{"start":276.65,"end":285.154,"text":"三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨"},{"start":306.504,"end":335.119,"text":"對不起,那個交通部,你們對這點有所知嗎?是,這個部分,如果要辦旅遊,跟部落相關的部分,或者是跟一些地方文化相關的部分,我們應該是要尊重地方文化。像自行車啊,然後什麼帆船比賽,你們對這個部分有知覺嗎?所以很多的一些活動,像現在賴總統在談的運動觀光,那如果它原本是競技型的比賽,也因為這種競技型的核心概念而展現出觀光的價值,"},{"start":335.939,"end":337.46,"text":"我會尊重地方的文化這個部分我會請他們注意"},{"start":359.465,"end":383.028,"text":"好的,謝謝。那第二個部分我們就談到國家級的那個綠道。那院長如果還有點印象的話本席在上一次的這個質詢也有提到步道那在當時的交通部部長也給本席提到了這個我們國家綠道所以這段時間本席有做了一些功課有關於國家綠道的這個內容那本席這邊想要提醒院長一件事情就是"},{"start":384.569,"end":404.788,"text":"這幾條目前你們有7條未來我不知道還會不會有更多我們期待有更多將臺灣連結起來所以這7條的國家綠廊分別由經濟部、交通部、農業部、原民會、客委會等部會目前在主責推動跟維護管理但是我不知道你們對於這整個步道的"},{"start":405.248,"end":425.722,"text":"整個推展是不是有了解它這個管理方式有沒有導致在推動及維護上缺乏的整體性跟協調性?那這個統一的規劃跟整體的行銷是不是因為事權不一而影響到綠島本身作為全國生態及文化旅遊的一個潛力呢?"},{"start":425.722,"end":428.344,"text":"行政院是不是有考慮到設立跨部會機構"},{"start":429.765,"end":432.966,"text":"如果這幾條的國家級綠道、步道分別這個相關的幾個部會或許真的是實際上是有關的,原住民、客家朋友或是他是經過農地"},{"start":454.972,"end":457.635,"text":"主管機關必須對維護或未來發展作考量。 如果已經形成國家公園整個區域"},{"start":470.31,"end":474.614,"text":"我想基本上事權統一讓他整體推動ratherland而不是每一個部會各行其事好不好"},{"start":493.015,"end":517.543,"text":"好所以接下來這個東西也跟步道有點關係可是是自行車跟步道安全在我們推動的時候那當然自行車也是這種無動力的一種交通工具但是在設施的部分沒有系統性的規劃跟管理那這個本席其實有提到過在環島一號自行車車道跟全國的徒步路網其實有很多遊客或旅客會去走"},{"start":518.183,"end":529.996,"text":"但是北黎公路跟蘇花公路還有很多的隱憂,本席在之前的質詢也提到過,就像自行車道的車道跟騎士和大型車輛的路道"},{"start":533.74,"end":560.165,"text":"共用非常狹小的道路,增加了一些事故的風險。 還有,臺灣的自行車道在連續性、安全性上也很不足。 所以在先前的質詢當中,交通部其實承諾本席解決臺二線上面大卡車跟自行車道征道的問題。 這個問題一直很困擾民眾,也導致了一些交通的隱憂。 不曉得這個部長目前的進度如何?"},{"start":560.868,"end":562.911,"text":"請部長追蹤一下這件事情,具體的設施方案及改善。"},{"start":575.868,"end":604.839,"text":"好那接下來是這個全國環島徒步網的這個問題徒步的旅客也經常會碰到跟自行車一樣的道路狹窄然後最終許多車速過快這有動力的車然後步道連續性不足也是一個問題那針對像行人這樣也跟自行車一樣的弱勢族群我們讓他經常是在一個高風險區域在都會裡面也是一樣然後在城鎮之間也是一樣從一個運輸公平的觀點這個部分不知道"},{"start":605.399,"end":605.419,"text":"﹚市長﹚"},{"start":629.486,"end":649.925,"text":"我看這個畫面應該是花東那邊,確實很多人在行走或者是騎腳踏車甚至是摩托車本席也參加過這些活動我覺得這些部分確實是應該要做比較好的規劃,因為旁邊的車子其實跑得蠻快那如果沒有做比較好的規劃其實對於那些要步行的人來說是相對危險的"},{"start":650.766,"end":651.868,"text":"主席"},{"start":668.45,"end":687.465,"text":"好 謝謝那接下來很快的我們都知道我們要進入高齡化的社會那對於這個高齡人口來講呢這個交通事故中死亡率居高不下那我這邊很直接的提出來就是斑馬線設置的時間過短我相信這個應該現在大家有注意到這一點"},{"start":688.226,"end":710.331,"text":"另外設施不完善在都會裡面一樣那都會外更不用講那很多時候在鄉下也是一樣部落裡面更是有一些那個不是只有連外道路部落裡面就像那個金針山大家上山的那條路是部落裡面很重要的一個生活空間那這種很急速的這個車子跟生活空間"},{"start":710.811,"end":710.831,"text":"臨時評論委員"},{"start":740.306,"end":742.547,"text":"在這個交通目前部落的這個邊坡其實沒有相關的檢視那也就是說ABC的分級跟處理交通部目前沒有資料"},{"start":763.732,"end":785.872,"text":"那所以我在上次提到有關於這個部落的這個邊坡相關的這個問題我們目前沒有下文,所以不知道這個目前的進度如何?我是針對省道跟國道還有鐵路的部分我們邊坡我們都有做管理,但是因為部落大部分是鄉道或者是縣道,那這個部分確實交通部沒有進入去處理這一塊,確實是"},{"start":786.513,"end":787.473,"text":"最後要提到一個很重要的問題"},{"start":814.127,"end":818.735,"text":"是一個免簽政策跟非法滯留的問題,這現在引起了很嚴重的狀況。"},{"start":821.449,"end":848.491,"text":"這其實牽扯到是一個短期的經濟利益跟長期社會成本的一個衝突我想這幾天那本席在這邊也收到很多的投訴我們為了推展觀光然後開放了很多免簽甚至有些國家我們提供了他們補助來台灣為了衝高這個數字但是導致一個很嚴重的問題就是非法滯留請問院長您知道現在非法滯留有多少人嗎?"},{"start":849.472,"end":877.819,"text":"這是非常嚴重的國安問題我會請監管單位把人數跟他們怎麼防範做一個有效的報告本席這邊研究出來的人數至少目前有9萬人這個比例非常的高非法滯留有9萬人那這就是如同你講的是個國安問題所以它不僅是對社會產生很嚴重的問題對我們觀光發展真的是正面的嗎"},{"start":878.899,"end":880.039,"text":"從哪邊付的?我請教這個是不是有包括一些逃逸的移工在內?"},{"start":908.626,"end":908.746,"text":"好 謝謝林委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":780,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（17時1分）謝謝主席，我們有請院長，謝謝。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員倩綺：院長好，本席今天雖然要來跟院長討論交通的議題，但是本席更關心的是在交通議題後面的一個永續性的問題，也就是我們現在常講的sustainability issue，也有人是說可持續性，這個永續性的議題涉及我們的交通安全、觀光政策還有生活文化的發展，本席希望透過這次的質詢能夠跟各位在議題上有一些分享跟提醒。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["林委員倩綺：當我們在做觀光發展的時候，我們常會碰到一個問題，就是觀光相關單位的介入跟地方節慶的變質，這會導致生活文化面跟旅遊發展上的兩難，這個部分經常在發展跟文化的保存之間陷入兩難，當然文化也是會流變的，在節慶時的活動基本上是人們相互連結的一個橋梁，讓參與者在體驗的過程當中能夠融入文化。地方節慶在我國有一個很重要的地位，節慶是整個地方的集體記憶、歷史、文化傳統還有社群凝聚的表現，有很重要的內涵跟對這個社群的意義。觀光單位常常在發展觀光的時候跟地方的文化活動來結合，但是在發展過後又沒有永續性的繼續推動。本席想要談的是目的導向的問題，地方節慶通常是當地社會的特定歷史背景、文化習癖或宗教信仰形成的，目的是反映對特定歷史事件、神話及自然現象的理解。但是觀光的節慶常常都是在做商業行銷，考慮如何吸引更多的遊客，然而在介入的過程當中，常常把它混為一談，觀光單位因為缺乏對這些內涵的理解跟尊重，很容易將節慶化成表面上的一種觀光商品，忽略了核心的文化跟社會意義。所以本席想在這邊請教院長，政府在推動觀光的同時，如何確保文化資源不會被過度的商品化？你們是不是有具體的政策來平衡文化的保護跟經濟發展，避免地方節慶失去了文化價值？"],["卓院長榮泰：無論是經濟發展跟觀光，我覺得保存當地的文化特色是應該列為優先的考量，這樣才不會讓一個文化就消滅了。甚至我們在協助或是參與各地這種比較傳統性節慶的時候，也應該遵照他們主辦單位傳統以來的方式，吸引更多人去，是要看過去到現在這種生活記憶的累積，而不是看現在用新的方式去改變他們的生活型態。我們可以在周遭用一些科技的方式來襯托現在社會新型態的方方面面，但是節慶慶典本身文化的保存我覺得這個才是……像全世界有很多文化遺產，他們保存的也是這個精神，臺灣應該文明的朝這個方向去進展。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，謝謝院長。我想跟您請教，如果您今天去參加原住民的祭儀，我們拿阿美族的豐年祭來講，你們知道什麼時候是可以去參觀或是可以去參與的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：像我前一陣子到花蓮太巴塱部落去，我是遵照他們的時間，而且我堅持我不要在這個慶典當中上臺講任何的話，我做一個……"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝院長。您剛才講到了時間，所以觀光相關的單位有掌握到這些細節嗎？當你們在做行銷的時候，或做資訊的傳達，有沒有考慮到跟確實掌握這些細節？這一點給我們交通部當成一個參考。","另外，在跟活動結合的時候，你們常常要跟人家合作的時候就說我們一起來，然後本來人家的本質、這個活動的本質可能是一種競技比賽，可是當你們介入了之後，之後你們就變成體驗活動，結果把人家原本有的競技比賽給稀釋掉了之後，地方反映的時候你們又說，這不是我們的事情，我們只管體驗，然後競技活動變成別的單位，關於這一點，交通部你們對這一點有所知嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：是，關於這個部分，如果要辦旅遊，跟部落相關的部分，或者是跟一些地方文化相關的部分，我們應該是要尊重地方文化。"],["林委員倩綺：像自行車、帆船比賽，你們對這個部分有知覺嗎？所以很多的一些活動，像現在賴總統在談的運動觀光，如果它原本是競技型的比賽，也因為這種競技型的核心概念而展現出觀光的價值，在觀光介入之後，不應該去改變它的本質，你們也必須持續的支持，所以這一點我請交通部這邊好好的來了解，在你們內部跨部會的觀光推動上，不是只有觀光署的事情，還有其他相關的單位要一起來推動，所以這一點提出來給你們參考。"],["陳部長世凱：我們會尊重地方的文化，這個部分我會請他們注意。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，謝謝。第二個部分我們就談到國家級的綠道，院長如果還有點印象的話，本席在上一次的質詢也有提到步道，當時的交通部部長也跟本席提到了我們國家綠道，所以這段時間本席有做了一些功課，有關於國家綠道的內容。本席這邊想要提醒院長一件事情就是，這幾條，目前你們有7條，未來我不知道還會不會有更多，我們期待有更多，將臺灣連結起來，這7條國家綠廊分別由經濟部、交通部、農業部、原民會、客委會等部會目前在主責推動跟維護管理，但是我不知道你們對於這整個步道的推展，是不是有了解它這個管理方式，有沒有導致在推動及維護上缺乏整體性跟協調性？這個統一的規劃跟整體的行銷，是不是因為事權不一而影響到綠道本身作為全國生態及文化旅遊的一個潛力呢？行政院是不是有考慮設立跨部會機構來統籌國家的步道系統，結合地方文化資源，進行永續管理，而不是國發會規劃了之後就丟給大家去執行，然後沒有後面的控管，您的看法呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果這幾條的國家級綠道、步道，分別相關的幾個部會，或許真的是實際上是有關原住民、客家朋友或者它是經過農地，如果是這樣子，各個目的事業主管……主管機關必須要對這些的維護或者它的未來發展做一些考量，這個是對的。如果它已經形成，比方說，我們比較可以說的像是國家公園，它的整個區域我們就可以有一個統一的事權來管理……"],["林委員倩綺：國家公園……"],["卓院長榮泰：步道的沿線又比較難這麼做，但是如果我們用觀光的眼光來看，倒是可以請交通部能夠去做一個統合的，但是不一定是完全主管……"],["林委員倩綺：基本上事權統一，讓它整體推動就是rather than……而不是每一個部會各行其是，好不好？","接下來這個東西也跟步道有點關係，可是是自行車跟步道安全，我們在推動的時候，當然自行車也是一種無動力的交通工具，但是在設施的部分，沒有系統性的規劃跟管理，這個本席其實也有提到過，在環島一號自行車車道跟全國的徒步路網，其實有很多遊客或旅客會去走，但是北宜公路跟蘇花公路還有很多的隱憂，這個本席在之前的質詢也提到過，就像自行車道的車道跟大型車輛的路道是共用非常狹小的道路，增加了一些事故的風險，還有，臺灣的自行車道在連續性、安全性上也很不足。所以在先前的質詢當中，交通部承諾本席解決台2線上面大卡車跟自行車爭道的問題，這個問題一直很困擾著民眾，也導致一些交通隱憂，不曉得這個部分，部長，目前的進度如何？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，最近正在討論很多自行車道的問題，但很抱歉，這個部分我確實還沒有聽到他們給我的說法，我會馬上去了解。"],["林委員倩綺：好的。部長是不是追蹤一下這件事情具體的設施方案及改善？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["林委員倩綺：接下來是全國環島徒步網的問題，徒步的旅客也經常會碰到跟自行車一樣道路狹窄的問題，最重要的是許多有動力的車車速過快，然後步道連續性不足也是一個問題。針對行人跟自行車一樣的弱勢族群，我們讓他們經常在一個高風險區域，在都會裡面也是一樣，在城鎮之間也是一樣。從一個運輸公平的觀點，這個部分不知道交通部是不是有針對徒步路網的安全性做了完善的規劃？另外，你們是不是有計畫的改善道路設計，為徒步的旅客（包括自行車騎士）提供更安全的步道和自行車車道？在都會裡面也是一樣，在城鎮之間的連結也是一樣。不知道部長這邊是不是有一些看法？"],["陳部長世凱：委員在建議這個，我看這個畫面應該是花東那邊，確實很多人在行走或者是騎腳踏車，甚至是摩托車也都有。"],["林委員倩綺：本席也參加過這些活動。"],["陳部長世凱：對，我覺得這些部分確實是應該做比較好的規劃，因為旁邊的車子其實跑得滿快的，如果沒有做比較好的規劃，對於那些要步行的人來說是相對危險的。"],["林委員倩綺：不僅騎士可能沒有路，步行的人更沒有路，最重要的有時候還有一些水溝，最近還有人掉下去，然後也導致了生命的問題，所以也請這個部分一併來考量，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝。接下來很快的，我們都知道我們要進入高齡化社會，對於高齡人口來講，交通事故中死亡率居高不下，我這邊很直接的提出來，就是斑馬線設置的時間過短，我相信現在大家應該有注意到這一點，另外設施不完善，在都會裡面一樣，都會外更不用講，很多時候在鄉下也是一樣，部落裡面更是，不是只有聯外道路，在部落裡面，就像金針山大家上山的那條路是部落裡面很重要的一個生活空間，很急速的車子跟生活空間的衝擊，我想這是很嚴重的問題，是不是可以全面檢視一下這種連動性？這個部分不知道交通部目前做到什麼樣的程度？"],["陳部長世凱：委員，您剛剛所提到時間比較短的部分，我們現在有推行人時相或者是行人優先時相，就是讓行人先走，車子再往前走，這個部分有在規劃。"],["林委員倩綺：這個在都市裡面，大家現在都有檢視嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員倩綺：但是在城鎮的連動當中，還有部落跟主要幹道的連結，對這個部分，我建議交通部去全面檢視，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：部落大部分是縣道的部分，我們會跟地方政府來協調，看怎麼樣檢視。"],["林委員倩綺：就是那個界面。很重要的一點，上次本席有提過，目前對於部落的邊坡其實沒有相關的檢視，也就是說，A、B、C的分級跟處理，交通部目前沒有資料，所以我在上次提到有關部落邊坡相關的問題，目前都沒有下文，不知道這個進度如何。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，針對省道跟國道，還有鐵路的部分，邊坡我們都有管理，但是因為部落大部分是鄉道或者是縣道，這個部分確實交通部沒有進入去處理這一塊。"],["林委員倩綺：所以我就為部落請命，我們東海岸很多在中央山脈或各個山頭的部落裡面都會有這樣的問題。"],["陳部長世凱：這個大部分是地方政府會處理。"],["林委員倩綺：是。對於道路，民眾不會去挑這是中央政府或地方政府，問題對民眾來講都是一樣，但是我們如何做？謝謝。","最後我要提到一個很重要的問題，就是免簽政策跟非法滯留的問題，現在這引起了很嚴重的狀況，這其實牽扯到短期的經濟利益跟長期社會成本的衝突。這幾天本席這邊也收到很多投訴，我們為了推展觀光開放了很多免簽，甚至有些國家，我們提供了他們補助來臺灣，為了衝高這個數字，但是導致一個很嚴重的問題，就是非法滯留。請問院長，您知道現在非法滯留有多少人嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是非常嚴重的國安問題。"],["林委員倩綺：是，您看是國安的層次了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我會請境管單位把人數跟他們怎麼防範，做一個有效的報告。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，本席這邊研究出來的這個人數目前至少有9萬人，這個比例非常的高，非法滯留有9萬人，就如同你講的，這是個國安問題，所以它不僅是對社會產生很嚴重的問題，對我們觀光發展真的是正面的嗎？這裡面的細節就是，在今年的3月1號，我們修正了入出國及移民法，也提高了對逾期滯留者的罰款，從1萬塊提升到5萬塊，結果現在大部分的人通通都裝死。我先跟院長請教一下，您知道這些錢是從哪邊付的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我請教這些人數是不是有包括一些逃逸的移工在內？"],["林委員倩綺：我講的是觀光的人數，非法滯留的。我在這邊跟您說，我們現在用的是就業安定基金來墊付，很嚴重的問題是在地方上還有很多人用自己的錢先墊付，我們的公務人員用自己的錢先墊付欸！然後半年以後才拿得回來，這是基層很嚴重的問題啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：是不是這樣，我了解清楚以後跟委員回報。"],["林委員倩綺：這件事情非常的嚴重。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝林委員。","下一位我們請邱若華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","郭國文","張嘉郡","柯志恩","林憶君","廖先翔","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","賴惠員","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","黃建賓","陳超明","吳琪銘","陳秀寳","徐巧芯","林倩綺","邱若華"],"page_start":44,"meetingDate":["2024-10-18"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00002","1138101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00008"}}}