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00:00:04,299\n阿謝主席阿我們請秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:17,171 --> 00:00:36,299\n憲法徵修條文第十二條法定修憲門檻就是立法院全體立法委員四分之一的提案四分之三的出席及出席委員四分之三的決議同樣的道理我們現在大法官的現有總額定義為憲法徵修條文第五條所規定的就是15位\n\n3\n00:00:37,717 --> 00:01:01,898\n所以我們為了避免削弱裁判的多元性、公正性、專業性和公信力所以我們對現在的現有的憲法訴訟法他漏未規定說大法官現有總額的定義所以僅規定剛剛鍾嘉斌委員講的憲法訴訟法第十二條所謂的迴避的大法官他有規定\n\n4\n00:01:03,114 --> 00:01:13,778\n議員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬\n\n5\n00:01:24,022 --> 00:01:53,198\n所以這種情況之下我們就是現在要預作法律的修補把這個漏洞補起來啊如果萬一真的發生這種狀況我們是不是要讓我們的憲法法庭的組成必須達到一定多元的一個人數讓這個裁判做出來的裁判才更具多元性才更能夠實踐我們的這個實質的一個爭議才不會由三四個人的幾個狹隘的觀點來對我們的憲法做出裁判\n\n6\n00:01:54,865 --> 00:02:07,335\n民主黨你贊同嗎?就是說我們為了避免少數的不具多元的狹隘的觀點做出我們的憲法的裁判來做這種修法您贊成嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:08,815 --> 00:02:13,396\n以往其實也並沒有這種情形少數的大法官就可以去決定一個重要的國家價值大概以前沒有今天假設說委員們認為說應該要達到一定的這種大法官的人數才能夠那其實討論的過程是不是要去變動變動說\n\n8\n00:02:35,942 --> 00:02:37,362\n您剛才提到了,目前好像過去很少發生這種極端判決的情況,少數幾個大法官來決定憲法訴訟的裁判或者釋憲案。\n\n9\n00:03:00,461 --> 00:03:00,841\n您贊成這個方向嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:29,503 --> 00:03:56,975\n用多數的意見來做成憲法的裁判您贊成嗎跟委員報告多數意見的做成裁判本身跟說要定法定總憲友總和變成這個法定總和我們司法院是認為這中間沒有當然的這個必然關係而且定成這個憲友總和是法定總和的話有剛才跟各位委員報告會產生一些自然難行的情形而且現在吸取的案件受理的案件怎麼會沒有必然的關係呢\n\n11\n00:03:58,596 --> 00:04:13,141\n我剛才已經跟你提到萬一如果有這種情況發生就極有可能發生就是總統提名的大法官因為他不具他的專業性然後他不夠中立然後他這個代呼這個名義完全輕忽名義\n\n12\n00:04:14,281 --> 00:04:41,622\n有這種情況會發生,所以他的被提名人沒有經過立法院來審查通過,會有這種情況發生嗎?怎麼會沒有必然關聯性呢?所以我們要把這種萬一的情況要把他設想進去,今天趕快來這個立法來補這個漏洞。讓他符合您剛才講的,過去我們所有的憲法裁判都是必須要達到大概10位左右的大法官來做成他的一個裁判或者解釋。\n\n13\n00:04:42,756 --> 00:04:45,759\n委員報告就是說不見得要用修法定總額的現有總額這種定義的方式那好那我問你這種漏洞萬一這個出現這種情況怎麼樣補這個漏洞\n\n14\n00:05:28,553 --> 00:05:31,417\n．委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案案．\n\n15\n00:05:40,934 --> 00:06:03,515\n當然你可以用其他方式,你剛才講的也是一種方式啦,我贊成啦。但是以目前這種情況的話,我們還是必須修法及時來補這個漏洞。我們不要有政治的算計,你剛才一直講會有自愛難行,我實在聽不懂。我請問一下,我們這個總統為什麼我們憲法要設計我們的大法官被提名的人要經過立法院的同意?\n\n16\n00:06:06,031 --> 00:06:32,828\n當然,大法官一定是所有的立法委員代表民意的這些大家可以認同的人,然後他才適合當然...所以我剛一直講,大法官一定要學術專精嘛,一定要超然獨立嘛,一定要重視民意嘛,一定要操守非常的好嘛。如果總統提名的被提名人,我們審視的結果,審查的結果,他完全不符合這些要件,我們還要讓他通過嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:34,428 --> 00:06:34,508\n議員翁曉玲\n\n18\n00:06:53,722 --> 00:07:21,079\n就是因為我們執政黨跟在野對於這個現在被提名的我們有我們的初步的一個看法跟意見嘛但未來審查會不會通過當然還不一定啦但是至少我們現在看起來我們有很多在這個之前就發表一些看法所以這時候是不是總統如果假設出現這種情況我最後問你那總統要怎麼做假設被提名人被那個立法院否決之後\n\n19\n00:07:22,686 --> 00:07:42,410\n總統要怎麼做?所以總統是不是要盡速再把提名一批新的大法官進到我們立法院來審查嗎?這就是這樣運作嘛!跟我們現在這個修憲法訴訟法把我們的立法漏洞補起來這完全沒有漢格啊!\n\n20\n00:07:43,806 --> 00:08:09,364\n所以我不曉得這個司法委員你為什麼一直強調說會自愛難行呢?那就盡速請總統提名一批新的大法官,適才適任的大法官進來嘛我想這才是我們立法委員應該做到立法院監督制衡的一個責任所有的這些沒有這個學術專才的也可以當大法官\n\n21\n00:08:11,397 --> 00:08:33,539\n我想秘書長、副秘書長你一定也反對大多數我們學法律的人我們所有的法律學者也好法律專家也好或者法律人一定反對這種沒有學術專精的人也可以當大法官那對基層的這些法官或者檢察官是多麼的諷刺啊大家這麼認真這麼努力\n\n22\n00:08:35,684 --> 00:08:44,077\n對我們的法律做出貢獻但是一個完全對法律可以說非常外行的人他可以當大法官我們可以讓他通過\n\n23\n00:08:45,728 --> 00:08:45,928\n這才是正軌啦\n\n24\n00:09:15,543 --> 00:09:15,663\n以上,謝謝!\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3032\t4299\t阿謝主席阿我們請秘書長\n17171\t36299\t憲法徵修條文第十二條法定修憲門檻就是立法院全體立法委員四分之一的提案四分之三的出席及出席委員四分之三的決議同樣的道理我們現在大法官的現有總額定義為憲法徵修條文第五條所規定的就是15位\n37717\t61898\t所以我們為了避免削弱裁判的多元性、公正性、專業性和公信力所以我們對現在的現有的憲法訴訟法他漏未規定說大法官現有總額的定義所以僅規定剛剛鍾嘉斌委員講的憲法訴訟法第十二條所謂的迴避的大法官他有規定\n63114\t73778\t議員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬\n84022\t113198\t所以這種情況之下我們就是現在要預作法律的修補把這個漏洞補起來啊如果萬一真的發生這種狀況我們是不是要讓我們的憲法法庭的組成必須達到一定多元的一個人數讓這個裁判做出來的裁判才更具多元性才更能夠實踐我們的這個實質的一個爭議才不會由三四個人的幾個狹隘的觀點來對我們的憲法做出裁判\n114865\t127335\t民主黨你贊同嗎?就是說我們為了避免少數的不具多元的狹隘的觀點做出我們的憲法的裁判來做這種修法您贊成嗎?\n128815\t133396\t以往其實也並沒有這種情形少數的大法官就可以去決定一個重要的國家價值大概以前沒有今天假設說委員們認為說應該要達到一定的這種大法官的人數才能夠那其實討論的過程是不是要去變動變動說\n155942\t157362\t您剛才提到了,目前好像過去很少發生這種極端判決的情況,少數幾個大法官來決定憲法訴訟的裁判或者釋憲案。\n180461\t180841\t您贊成這個方向嗎?\n209503\t236975\t用多數的意見來做成憲法的裁判您贊成嗎跟委員報告多數意見的做成裁判本身跟說要定法定總憲友總和變成這個法定總和我們司法院是認為這中間沒有當然的這個必然關係而且定成這個憲友總和是法定總和的話有剛才跟各位委員報告會產生一些自然難行的情形而且現在吸取的案件受理的案件怎麼會沒有必然的關係呢\n238596\t253141\t我剛才已經跟你提到萬一如果有這種情況發生就極有可能發生就是總統提名的大法官因為他不具他的專業性然後他不夠中立然後他這個代呼這個名義完全輕忽名義\n254281\t281622\t有這種情況會發生,所以他的被提名人沒有經過立法院來審查通過,會有這種情況發生嗎?怎麼會沒有必然關聯性呢?所以我們要把這種萬一的情況要把他設想進去,今天趕快來這個立法來補這個漏洞。讓他符合您剛才講的,過去我們所有的憲法裁判都是必須要達到大概10位左右的大法官來做成他的一個裁判或者解釋。\n282756\t285759\t委員報告就是說不見得要用修法定總額的現有總額這種定義的方式那好那我問你這種漏洞萬一這個出現這種情況怎麼樣補這個漏洞\n300606\t328473\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n328553\t331417\t．委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案案．\n340934\t363515\t當然你可以用其他方式,你剛才講的也是一種方式啦,我贊成啦。但是以目前這種情況的話,我們還是必須修法及時來補這個漏洞。我們不要有政治的算計,你剛才一直講會有自愛難行,我實在聽不懂。我請問一下,我們這個總統為什麼我們憲法要設計我們的大法官被提名的人要經過立法院的同意?\n366031\t392828\t當然,大法官一定是所有的立法委員代表民意的這些大家可以認同的人,然後他才適合當然...所以我剛一直講,大法官一定要學術專精嘛,一定要超然獨立嘛,一定要重視民意嘛,一定要操守非常的好嘛。如果總統提名的被提名人,我們審視的結果,審查的結果,他完全不符合這些要件,我們還要讓他通過嗎?\n394428\t394508\t議員翁曉玲\n413722\t441079\t就是因為我們執政黨跟在野對於這個現在被提名的我們有我們的初步的一個看法跟意見嘛但未來審查會不會通過當然還不一定啦但是至少我們現在看起來我們有很多在這個之前就發表一些看法所以這時候是不是總統如果假設出現這種情況我最後問你那總統要怎麼做假設被提名人被那個立法院否決之後\n442686\t462410\t總統要怎麼做?所以總統是不是要盡速再把提名一批新的大法官進到我們立法院來審查嗎?這就是這樣運作嘛!跟我們現在這個修憲法訴訟法把我們的立法漏洞補起來這完全沒有漢格啊!\n463806\t489364\t所以我不曉得這個司法委員你為什麼一直強調說會自愛難行呢?那就盡速請總統提名一批新的大法官,適才適任的大法官進來嘛我想這才是我們立法委員應該做到立法院監督制衡的一個責任所有的這些沒有這個學術專才的也可以當大法官\n491397\t513539\t我想秘書長、副秘書長你一定也反對大多數我們學法律的人我們所有的法律學者也好法律專家也好或者法律人一定反對這種沒有學術專精的人也可以當大法官那對基層的這些法官或者檢察官是多麼的諷刺啊大家這麼認真這麼努力\n515684\t524077\t對我們的法律做出貢獻但是一個完全對法律可以說非常外行的人他可以當大法官我們可以讓他通過\n525728\t525928\t這才是正軌啦\n555543\t555663\t以上,謝謝!\n","txt":"阿謝主席阿我們請秘書長\n憲法徵修條文第十二條法定修憲門檻就是立法院全體立法委員四分之一的提案四分之三的出席及出席委員四分之三的決議同樣的道理我們現在大法官的現有總額定義為憲法徵修條文第五條所規定的就是15位\n所以我們為了避免削弱裁判的多元性、公正性、專業性和公信力所以我們對現在的現有的憲法訴訟法他漏未規定說大法官現有總額的定義所以僅規定剛剛鍾嘉斌委員講的憲法訴訟法第十二條所謂的迴避的大法官他有規定\n議員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬\n所以這種情況之下我們就是現在要預作法律的修補把這個漏洞補起來啊如果萬一真的發生這種狀況我們是不是要讓我們的憲法法庭的組成必須達到一定多元的一個人數讓這個裁判做出來的裁判才更具多元性才更能夠實踐我們的這個實質的一個爭議才不會由三四個人的幾個狹隘的觀點來對我們的憲法做出裁判\n民主黨你贊同嗎?就是說我們為了避免少數的不具多元的狹隘的觀點做出我們的憲法的裁判來做這種修法您贊成嗎?\n以往其實也並沒有這種情形少數的大法官就可以去決定一個重要的國家價值大概以前沒有今天假設說委員們認為說應該要達到一定的這種大法官的人數才能夠那其實討論的過程是不是要去變動變動說\n您剛才提到了,目前好像過去很少發生這種極端判決的情況,少數幾個大法官來決定憲法訴訟的裁判或者釋憲案。\n您贊成這個方向嗎?\n用多數的意見來做成憲法的裁判您贊成嗎跟委員報告多數意見的做成裁判本身跟說要定法定總憲友總和變成這個法定總和我們司法院是認為這中間沒有當然的這個必然關係而且定成這個憲友總和是法定總和的話有剛才跟各位委員報告會產生一些自然難行的情形而且現在吸取的案件受理的案件怎麼會沒有必然的關係呢\n我剛才已經跟你提到萬一如果有這種情況發生就極有可能發生就是總統提名的大法官因為他不具他的專業性然後他不夠中立然後他這個代呼這個名義完全輕忽名義\n有這種情況會發生,所以他的被提名人沒有經過立法院來審查通過,會有這種情況發生嗎?怎麼會沒有必然關聯性呢?所以我們要把這種萬一的情況要把他設想進去,今天趕快來這個立法來補這個漏洞。讓他符合您剛才講的,過去我們所有的憲法裁判都是必須要達到大概10位左右的大法官來做成他的一個裁判或者解釋。\n委員報告就是說不見得要用修法定總額的現有總額這種定義的方式那好那我問你這種漏洞萬一這個出現這種情況怎麼樣補這個漏洞\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n．委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案案．\n當然你可以用其他方式,你剛才講的也是一種方式啦,我贊成啦。但是以目前這種情況的話,我們還是必須修法及時來補這個漏洞。我們不要有政治的算計,你剛才一直講會有自愛難行,我實在聽不懂。我請問一下,我們這個總統為什麼我們憲法要設計我們的大法官被提名的人要經過立法院的同意?\n當然,大法官一定是所有的立法委員代表民意的這些大家可以認同的人,然後他才適合當然...所以我剛一直講,大法官一定要學術專精嘛,一定要超然獨立嘛,一定要重視民意嘛,一定要操守非常的好嘛。如果總統提名的被提名人,我們審視的結果,審查的結果,他完全不符合這些要件,我們還要讓他通過嗎?\n議員翁曉玲\n就是因為我們執政黨跟在野對於這個現在被提名的我們有我們的初步的一個看法跟意見嘛但未來審查會不會通過當然還不一定啦但是至少我們現在看起來我們有很多在這個之前就發表一些看法所以這時候是不是總統如果假設出現這種情況我最後問你那總統要怎麼做假設被提名人被那個立法院否決之後\n總統要怎麼做?所以總統是不是要盡速再把提名一批新的大法官進到我們立法院來審查嗎?這就是這樣運作嘛!跟我們現在這個修憲法訴訟法把我們的立法漏洞補起來這完全沒有漢格啊!\n所以我不曉得這個司法委員你為什麼一直強調說會自愛難行呢?那就盡速請總統提名一批新的大法官,適才適任的大法官進來嘛我想這才是我們立法委員應該做到立法院監督制衡的一個責任所有的這些沒有這個學術專才的也可以當大法官\n我想秘書長、副秘書長你一定也反對大多數我們學法律的人我們所有的法律學者也好法律專家也好或者法律人一定反對這種沒有學術專精的人也可以當大法官那對基層的這些法官或者檢察官是多麼的諷刺啊大家這麼認真這麼努力\n對我們的法律做出貢獻但是一個完全對法律可以說非常外行的人他可以當大法官我們可以讓他通過\n這才是正軌啦\n以上,謝謝!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.032 --> 00:04.299\n阿謝主席阿我們請秘書長\n\n00:17.171 --> 00:36.299\n憲法徵修條文第十二條法定修憲門檻就是立法院全體立法委員四分之一的提案四分之三的出席及出席委員四分之三的決議同樣的道理我們現在大法官的現有總額定義為憲法徵修條文第五條所規定的就是15位\n\n00:37.717 --> 01:01.898\n所以我們為了避免削弱裁判的多元性、公正性、專業性和公信力所以我們對現在的現有的憲法訴訟法他漏未規定說大法官現有總額的定義所以僅規定剛剛鍾嘉斌委員講的憲法訴訟法第十二條所謂的迴避的大法官他有規定\n\n01:03.114 --> 01:13.778\n議員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬\n\n01:24.022 --> 01:53.198\n所以這種情況之下我們就是現在要預作法律的修補把這個漏洞補起來啊如果萬一真的發生這種狀況我們是不是要讓我們的憲法法庭的組成必須達到一定多元的一個人數讓這個裁判做出來的裁判才更具多元性才更能夠實踐我們的這個實質的一個爭議才不會由三四個人的幾個狹隘的觀點來對我們的憲法做出裁判\n\n01:54.865 --> 02:07.335\n民主黨你贊同嗎?就是說我們為了避免少數的不具多元的狹隘的觀點做出我們的憲法的裁判來做這種修法您贊成嗎?\n\n02:08.815 --> 02:13.396\n以往其實也並沒有這種情形少數的大法官就可以去決定一個重要的國家價值大概以前沒有今天假設說委員們認為說應該要達到一定的這種大法官的人數才能夠那其實討論的過程是不是要去變動變動說\n\n02:35.942 --> 02:37.362\n您剛才提到了,目前好像過去很少發生這種極端判決的情況,少數幾個大法官來決定憲法訴訟的裁判或者釋憲案。\n\n03:00.461 --> 03:00.841\n您贊成這個方向嗎?\n\n03:29.503 --> 03:56.975\n用多數的意見來做成憲法的裁判您贊成嗎跟委員報告多數意見的做成裁判本身跟說要定法定總憲友總和變成這個法定總和我們司法院是認為這中間沒有當然的這個必然關係而且定成這個憲友總和是法定總和的話有剛才跟各位委員報告會產生一些自然難行的情形而且現在吸取的案件受理的案件怎麼會沒有必然的關係呢\n\n03:58.596 --> 04:13.141\n我剛才已經跟你提到萬一如果有這種情況發生就極有可能發生就是總統提名的大法官因為他不具他的專業性然後他不夠中立然後他這個代呼這個名義完全輕忽名義\n\n04:14.281 --> 04:41.622\n有這種情況會發生,所以他的被提名人沒有經過立法院來審查通過,會有這種情況發生嗎?怎麼會沒有必然關聯性呢?所以我們要把這種萬一的情況要把他設想進去,今天趕快來這個立法來補這個漏洞。讓他符合您剛才講的,過去我們所有的憲法裁判都是必須要達到大概10位左右的大法官來做成他的一個裁判或者解釋。\n\n04:42.756 --> 04:45.759\n委員報告就是說不見得要用修法定總額的現有總額這種定義的方式那好那我問你這種漏洞萬一這個出現這種情況怎麼樣補這個漏洞\n\n05:28.553 --> 05:31.417\n．委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案案．\n\n05:40.934 --> 06:03.515\n當然你可以用其他方式,你剛才講的也是一種方式啦,我贊成啦。但是以目前這種情況的話,我們還是必須修法及時來補這個漏洞。我們不要有政治的算計,你剛才一直講會有自愛難行,我實在聽不懂。我請問一下,我們這個總統為什麼我們憲法要設計我們的大法官被提名的人要經過立法院的同意?\n\n06:06.031 --> 06:32.828\n當然,大法官一定是所有的立法委員代表民意的這些大家可以認同的人,然後他才適合當然...所以我剛一直講,大法官一定要學術專精嘛,一定要超然獨立嘛,一定要重視民意嘛,一定要操守非常的好嘛。如果總統提名的被提名人,我們審視的結果,審查的結果,他完全不符合這些要件,我們還要讓他通過嗎?\n\n06:34.428 --> 06:34.508\n議員翁曉玲\n\n06:53.722 --> 07:21.079\n就是因為我們執政黨跟在野對於這個現在被提名的我們有我們的初步的一個看法跟意見嘛但未來審查會不會通過當然還不一定啦但是至少我們現在看起來我們有很多在這個之前就發表一些看法所以這時候是不是總統如果假設出現這種情況我最後問你那總統要怎麼做假設被提名人被那個立法院否決之後\n\n07:22.686 --> 07:42.410\n總統要怎麼做?所以總統是不是要盡速再把提名一批新的大法官進到我們立法院來審查嗎?這就是這樣運作嘛!跟我們現在這個修憲法訴訟法把我們的立法漏洞補起來這完全沒有漢格啊!\n\n07:43.806 --> 08:09.364\n所以我不曉得這個司法委員你為什麼一直強調說會自愛難行呢?那就盡速請總統提名一批新的大法官,適才適任的大法官進來嘛我想這才是我們立法委員應該做到立法院監督制衡的一個責任所有的這些沒有這個學術專才的也可以當大法官\n\n08:11.397 --> 08:33.539\n我想秘書長、副秘書長你一定也反對大多數我們學法律的人我們所有的法律學者也好法律專家也好或者法律人一定反對這種沒有學術專精的人也可以當大法官那對基層的這些法官或者檢察官是多麼的諷刺啊大家這麼認真這麼努力\n\n08:35.684 --> 08:44.077\n對我們的法律做出貢獻但是一個完全對法律可以說非常外行的人他可以當大法官我們可以讓他通過\n\n08:45.728 --> 08:45.928\n這才是正軌啦\n\n09:15.543 --> 09:15.663\n以上,謝謝!\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.032,"end":4.299,"text":"阿謝主席阿我們請秘書長"},{"start":17.171,"end":36.299,"text":"憲法徵修條文第十二條法定修憲門檻就是立法院全體立法委員四分之一的提案四分之三的出席及出席委員四分之三的決議同樣的道理我們現在大法官的現有總額定義為憲法徵修條文第五條所規定的就是15位"},{"start":37.717,"end":61.898,"text":"所以我們為了避免削弱裁判的多元性、公正性、專業性和公信力所以我們對現在的現有的憲法訴訟法他漏未規定說大法官現有總額的定義所以僅規定剛剛鍾嘉斌委員講的憲法訴訟法第十二條所謂的迴避的大法官他有規定"},{"start":63.114,"end":73.778,"text":"議員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條條文修正草案．一）委員翁曉玲等16人擬"},{"start":84.022,"end":113.198,"text":"所以這種情況之下我們就是現在要預作法律的修補把這個漏洞補起來啊如果萬一真的發生這種狀況我們是不是要讓我們的憲法法庭的組成必須達到一定多元的一個人數讓這個裁判做出來的裁判才更具多元性才更能夠實踐我們的這個實質的一個爭議才不會由三四個人的幾個狹隘的觀點來對我們的憲法做出裁判"},{"start":114.865,"end":127.335,"text":"民主黨你贊同嗎?就是說我們為了避免少數的不具多元的狹隘的觀點做出我們的憲法的裁判來做這種修法您贊成嗎?"},{"start":128.815,"end":133.396,"text":"以往其實也並沒有這種情形少數的大法官就可以去決定一個重要的國家價值大概以前沒有今天假設說委員們認為說應該要達到一定的這種大法官的人數才能夠那其實討論的過程是不是要去變動變動說"},{"start":155.942,"end":157.362,"text":"您剛才提到了,目前好像過去很少發生這種極端判決的情況,少數幾個大法官來決定憲法訴訟的裁判或者釋憲案。"},{"start":180.461,"end":180.841,"text":"您贊成這個方向嗎?"},{"start":209.503,"end":236.975,"text":"用多數的意見來做成憲法的裁判您贊成嗎跟委員報告多數意見的做成裁判本身跟說要定法定總憲友總和變成這個法定總和我們司法院是認為這中間沒有當然的這個必然關係而且定成這個憲友總和是法定總和的話有剛才跟各位委員報告會產生一些自然難行的情形而且現在吸取的案件受理的案件怎麼會沒有必然的關係呢"},{"start":238.596,"end":253.141,"text":"我剛才已經跟你提到萬一如果有這種情況發生就極有可能發生就是總統提名的大法官因為他不具他的專業性然後他不夠中立然後他這個代呼這個名義完全輕忽名義"},{"start":254.281,"end":281.622,"text":"有這種情況會發生,所以他的被提名人沒有經過立法院來審查通過,會有這種情況發生嗎?怎麼會沒有必然關聯性呢?所以我們要把這種萬一的情況要把他設想進去,今天趕快來這個立法來補這個漏洞。讓他符合您剛才講的,過去我們所有的憲法裁判都是必須要達到大概10位左右的大法官來做成他的一個裁判或者解釋。"},{"start":282.756,"end":285.759,"text":"委員報告就是說不見得要用修法定總額的現有總額這種定義的方式那好那我問你這種漏洞萬一這個出現這種情況怎麼樣補這個漏洞"},{"start":300.606,"end":328.473,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":328.553,"end":331.417,"text":"．委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案案．"},{"start":340.934,"end":363.515,"text":"當然你可以用其他方式,你剛才講的也是一種方式啦,我贊成啦。但是以目前這種情況的話,我們還是必須修法及時來補這個漏洞。我們不要有政治的算計,你剛才一直講會有自愛難行,我實在聽不懂。我請問一下,我們這個總統為什麼我們憲法要設計我們的大法官被提名的人要經過立法院的同意?"},{"start":366.031,"end":392.828,"text":"當然,大法官一定是所有的立法委員代表民意的這些大家可以認同的人,然後他才適合當然...所以我剛一直講,大法官一定要學術專精嘛,一定要超然獨立嘛,一定要重視民意嘛,一定要操守非常的好嘛。如果總統提名的被提名人,我們審視的結果,審查的結果,他完全不符合這些要件,我們還要讓他通過嗎?"},{"start":394.428,"end":394.508,"text":"議員翁曉玲"},{"start":413.722,"end":441.079,"text":"就是因為我們執政黨跟在野對於這個現在被提名的我們有我們的初步的一個看法跟意見嘛但未來審查會不會通過當然還不一定啦但是至少我們現在看起來我們有很多在這個之前就發表一些看法所以這時候是不是總統如果假設出現這種情況我最後問你那總統要怎麼做假設被提名人被那個立法院否決之後"},{"start":442.686,"end":462.41,"text":"總統要怎麼做?所以總統是不是要盡速再把提名一批新的大法官進到我們立法院來審查嗎?這就是這樣運作嘛!跟我們現在這個修憲法訴訟法把我們的立法漏洞補起來這完全沒有漢格啊!"},{"start":463.806,"end":489.364,"text":"所以我不曉得這個司法委員你為什麼一直強調說會自愛難行呢?那就盡速請總統提名一批新的大法官,適才適任的大法官進來嘛我想這才是我們立法委員應該做到立法院監督制衡的一個責任所有的這些沒有這個學術專才的也可以當大法官"},{"start":491.397,"end":513.539,"text":"我想秘書長、副秘書長你一定也反對大多數我們學法律的人我們所有的法律學者也好法律專家也好或者法律人一定反對這種沒有學術專精的人也可以當大法官那對基層的這些法官或者檢察官是多麼的諷刺啊大家這麼認真這麼努力"},{"start":515.684,"end":524.077,"text":"對我們的法律做出貢獻但是一個完全對法律可以說非常外行的人他可以當大法官我們可以讓他通過"},{"start":525.728,"end":525.928,"text":"這才是正軌啦"},{"start":555.543,"end":555.663,"text":"以上,謝謝!"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":557,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（12時6分）謝謝主席，我們請秘書長。秘書長，請教……"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：委員好，我現在是副秘書長。"],["林委員思銘：副秘書長，你不是代理嗎？OK。憲法增修條文第十二條法定修憲門檻，就是立法院全體立法委員四分之一的提案、四分之三的出席，及出席委員四分之三的決議。同樣的道理，我們現在大法官的現有總額定義為憲法增修條文第五條所規定的就是15位，所以我們為了避免削弱裁判的多元性、公正性、專業性和公信力，我們對現有的憲法訴訟法漏未規定大法官現有總額的定義，僅規定剛才鍾佳濱委員講的憲法訴訟法第十二條迴避的大法官，它有規定不計入現有總額的人數。所以恐怕會出現，如果總統提名的大法官沒有經過立法院的同意審查通過，可能就會出現只有3、4位的大法官來做出裁判，這樣子的一個疑慮，這是一個疑慮而已，我們說不是一定。","所以這種情況之下，我們就是現在要預做法律的修補，把這個漏洞補起來，如果萬一真的發生這種狀況，我們是不是要讓我們憲法法庭的組成，必須達到一定、多元的一個人數？讓做出來的裁判才更具多元性，才更能夠實踐我們實質的一個正義，才不會有3、4個人幾個狹隘的觀點來對我們的憲法做出裁判。副秘書長，你贊同嗎？我們為了避免少數的、不具多元的、狹隘的觀點，做出我們的憲法的裁判，因此來做這種修法，您贊成嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告……"],["林委員思銘：我先大方向問你，你不用跟我講說什麼因為政治計算怎麼樣……"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：以往其實也並沒有這種情形，以少數的大法官就可以去決定一個重要的國家價值，大概目前和以前都沒有。"],["林委員思銘：是，所以……"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：假設今天委員們認為應該要達到一定的大法官的人數才能夠，其實討論的過程是不是要去變動所謂現有總額的涵義，因為這個現有總額的涵義向來都已經有，要不要去這樣子定，我覺得還有再深思的餘地啦！"],["林委員思銘：是，副秘書長，你剛才也提到，過去很少發生所謂這種極端判決的情況，就少數幾個大法官來決定我們憲法訴訟的裁判或者釋憲案，很少嘛，或者沒有……但是我們就擔心會有這種情況發生，我剛一直講，有這種情況發生的疑慮啊！所以我們把這個立法漏洞修補起來，讓它很明確的法制化，未來憲法法庭的組成，一定要有法定15位的三分之二來出席，才能夠做成它的憲法裁判，這個方向您贊成嗎？用多數的意見來做成憲法的裁判，您贊成嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，多數意見做成裁判本身，跟要法定，將現有總額變成法定總額，我們司法院是認為這中間沒有當然的必然關係啦！而且現有總額定成是法定總額的話，剛才跟各位委員報告，會產生一些窒礙難行的情形，而且現在繫屬的案件、受理的案件……"],["林委員思銘：副秘書長，怎麼會沒有必然的關係呢？我剛才已經跟你提到，萬一有這種情況發生，極有可能發生，總統提名的大法官，因為他不具專業性，然後不夠中立、怠忽民意，完全輕忽民意，有這種情況會發生，所以被提名人沒有經過立法院來審查通過，會有這種情況發生啊！怎麼會沒有必然關聯性呢？所以我們要把這種萬一的情況設想進去，今天趕快來立法補這個漏洞，讓它符合您剛才講的，過去我們所有的憲法裁判都是必須要達到大概10位左右的大法官，來做成一個裁判或者解釋，所以怎麼會沒有必然性呢？我聽不懂你講的。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，就是不見得要用修法定總額的現有總額這種定義的方式。"],["林委員思銘：好，那我問你，這種漏洞，萬一出現這種情況，怎麼樣來補這個漏洞？萬一出現的話？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，當然很多的國家假設續任的大法官沒有順利產生或者有缺位的情形的話，現任的大法官可以繼續到新任的大法官任期就任為止，這一種制度很多國家有……"],["林委員思銘：但是依照我們現行的，我們的法律就沒有這樣的規定嘛！所以我才會講如果我們用這種方式來修法的話，實際上就能夠達到真的實踐……大法官、憲法法庭的組成一定要有多數的、多元的觀點，我們才能夠達到這個立法的目的啊！當然，你可以用其他方式，你剛才講的也是一種方式，我贊成啦，但是以目前這種情況的話，我們還是必須修法及時來補這個漏洞，不要有政治的算計，你一直講會窒礙難行，我實在聽不懂。","我請問一下，為什麼我們憲法要設計大法官被提名人要經過立法院的同意？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：當然大法官一定是……"],["林委員思銘：這憲政的設計嘛！"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：所有的立法委員、代表民意的，大家可以認同的人，然後他才適合當任。"],["林委員思銘：是，所以我剛一直講，大法官一定要學術專精，一定要超然獨立，一定要重視民意，一定要操守非常的好嘛，如果總統提名的被提名人，我們審視的結果、審查的結果，他完全不符合這些要件，我們還要讓他通過嗎？這樣我們愧對民意耶！"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：大院審查大法官的適任性是大院的職權。"],["林委員思銘：所以我才講嘛，既然會有這種情況，可能發生嘛，所以我們要及時補這個漏洞啊！所以司法院，你現在一直認為我們行使審查同意的時候，現在就是因為我們執政黨跟在野黨，對於現在被提名的人，我們有我們初步的一個看法跟意見嘛，至於未來審查會不會通過，當然還不一定，但是至少我們現在看起來，我們有很多在之前就有發表一些看法，所以這時候是不是總統，如果假設出現這種情況，我就問你，那總統要怎麼做？假設被提名人被立法院否決之後，總統要怎麼做？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，當然這是總統的職權，所以總統是不是重新提名……"],["林委員思銘：所以總統是不是要儘速再提名一批新的大法官進到我們立法院來審查嘛？就是這樣運作嘛，跟我們現在修憲法訴訟法，把我們的立法漏洞補起來，這完全沒有扞格啊！所以我不曉得司法院，你為什麼一直強調說會窒礙難行呢？那就儘速請總統提名一批新的大法官，適才適任的大法官進來嘛，我想這才是我們立法委員應該做到立法院監督制衡的一個責任啦。所有的這些，連沒有學術專才的人，也可以當大法官，我想副秘書長你一定也反對，大多數我們學法律的人，我們所有的法律學者也好，法律專家也好，或者法律人一定反對，這種沒有學術專精的人也可以當大法官喔！那對基層的這些法官或者檢察官是多麼的諷刺啊，大家這麼認真、這麼努力，對我們的法律做出貢獻，但是一個完全對法律可以說非常外行的人，他可以當大法官喔，我們可以讓他通過喔？我想絕對不行啦，我想你一定贊成這個觀點。所以我們還是希望，如果假設萬一這些被提名人沒有被通過的話，請總統應該儘速提名新的人進來，這樣我們的憲政運作就不會有所謂窒礙難行之處，有什麼會影響我們司法院大法官的憲法訴訟，對於案件進行審理的這樣一個情形存在，這才是正軌啦！以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，我們下一位請沈發惠委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-6","speakers":["吳宗憲","吳思瑤","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林思銘","洪申翰","陳俊宇","賴士葆","謝龍介","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","傅崐萁","蔡易餘"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-21"],"gazette_id":"1138701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「憲法訴訟法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等\n16人擬具「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1138701_00001"}}}