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00:00:50,663\n這個面對戰爭我們要學習烏克蘭不需要美國的援助這個事情不是遇到侵略的時候大家要不要迎難而上的問題當然要迎難而上啊有誰會不保衛自己的國家呢對不對所以我是覺得外交部在評論這件事情的時候不要放錯重點大家都要迎難而上可是我覺得這件事情最大的問題是講不需要美國援助這是一個很大的事情請問部長不依靠美軍美軍不用出兵是否已經成為我們中華民國外交部的官方立場\n\n3\n00:00:52,343 --> 00:01:08,712\n根據台灣關係法,美國如果是要能夠來提供台灣自我防禦的能力以外當然也有相對應的所謂六項保證\n\n4\n00:01:10,154 --> 00:01:37,983\n在政治上來講尤其是國內安定民心的角度來講大家都期待尤其是民進黨政府執政的期間除了抗中保台之外我們也是全球所謂的民主大聯盟的重要議員從美方的角度來出發讓重要民國維持民主國家的地位避免中共的擴張是不是美國重要的國家戰略意義很重要應該是很重要對不對所以在過去我們所看到的所有的宣傳語言上是不是都說他們會支持我們\n\n5\n00:01:38,991 --> 00:01:46,710\n那現在中國大陸這邊大軍壓境對不對動輒文攻武嚇萬一真的哪一天走到戰爭的時候我們真的不需要美軍的幫忙嗎\n\n6\n00:01:48,174 --> 00:02:08,696\n我們很希望美軍能夠協助臺灣來對抗這個中國的群裂啊很希望啊你講我們要學烏克蘭也有臺灣關係嘛還有六項保證這些而且各種的法律通過的還有這些撥款相關的這些包括他們的這個\n\n7\n00:02:10,958 --> 00:02:25,525\n參眾兩院通過的法律那個都是有效的當真正遇到大型的國際衝突甚至到戰爭的時候當然很多的情勢就會改變了我現在問外交部的是這到底是不是我們的官方主張因為余大雷是重要的角色他在美國的福斯新聞受了專訪\n\n8\n00:02:26,305 --> 00:02:29,387\n臺灣有自我防衛的能力,如果中共侵略臺灣,那我們在哪裡抵抗啊?\n\n9\n00:02:42,136 --> 00:03:01,752\n有一套的說法就大概在媒體輿論上面講叫以美論也就是說大家在挑戰說他們真的會出兵嗎?真的會大力協助嗎?大家就扣這個是以美論對不對那現在是等於我們中華民國最外對外的正式的官方代表等於是在唱和之間不用不用來所以我講這是很嚴重我希望部長你做好準備啦\n\n10\n00:03:02,392 --> 00:03:21,385\n你現在在美國人面前他如果是我們重要的盟友如果民主大聯盟的戰略價值那是不可動搖的那從重要民國的國家安全國家立場裡面你當然要在美國人面前積極主張嘛你當然要主張必要的時候你當然要出兵協防因為這是這是避免威權國家集權擴張的重要的防線\n\n11\n00:03:22,586 --> 00:03:41,981\n我們要不要做這樣的主張部長當然自助人助嘛我們一定要自己就是說要有這個保護自己的這個決心跟能力嘛我們的友邦他們也一定會來協助我們嘛來維護我們這個民主自由我覺得你今天的回答沒有很有底氣\n\n12\n00:03:42,601 --> 00:04:04,739\n剛好米娟大雷公使在外面受訪是在福斯新聞馬上現在是美國大選川普又曾經講這個我們是絕對不會出兵的你如果今天我們的官方立場不講清楚不積極主張沒有啦他沒有講絕對不出兵啦你很難去認你很難去不讓大家去聯想這是被押寶而且是順應我再次強調既然美國是我們重要的盟友\n\n13\n00:04:05,359 --> 00:04:22,439\n我們都要維繫兩邊的關係是我們都完全支持也不會反對我們都希望外交人好好發揮但是問題就是支持不代表你要百分之百順應啊我很擔心這樣子的言論你講這樣的言論也許背後有一些外交上的戰略考量還是說部長你要分享一下他這樣去講\n\n14\n00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:37,967\n請問對我國國家利益有什麼具體的幫助?背後的戰略考量是什麼?你如果在這一部分你可以講出一套論述一套說明讓國內的民心可以安定那也就算了但看起來從你剛剛答詢講法條的東西或什麼的我提醒部長這個事情要\n\n15\n00:04:38,707 --> 00:05:00,436\n我跟委員報告其實我們過去跟川普政府跟拜登政府都有很好的合作而且美國是參眾兩院跨黨派支持台灣他們都已經把支持的話講得這麼清楚了為了安全要全球共同這是全世界的事情不是我們自己的事情\n\n16\n00:05:01,036 --> 00:05:18,509\n臺灣是全世界的事情,這樣才能夠最大化國際上對我們的支持跟聲援才能夠最大化我們國家安全的利益我們期待看到外交部的立場是這樣臺灣是全世界的事情,但是全世界包含具體的軍事協助你不能夠自己講自己自結武裝這是不對的,是在外交戰場上\n\n17\n00:05:21,450 --> 00:05:36,354\n這一定要小心為之啊,這重點不是我們要不要對抗,當然要對抗,人家都親門他戶了,每一個人這是我們國民的義務,可是全世界也要幫忙。從余大連的講話到全社會什麼防衛動員任性,就是學烏克蘭,他們有幫烏克蘭嗎?這就是我們擔心的事情嘛。\n\n18\n00:05:44,497 --> 00:06:07,539\n所以請積極主張好不好外交部部長這是我非常重要的提醒第二個重要的時事這個今天上頭版阿拉伯組織了一個非官方的詐騙集團然後反過來告我們正式住在這邊的大使那不是笑話一則嗎部長我知道你前面也回答過剛剛徐小新委員關心對不對你講說你會積極處理是人民團體的登記當然主責是在內政部嘛\n\n19\n00:06:08,140 --> 00:06:35,465\n主持人內政部的時候這個以NGO為名義來登錄可是請問他最近這段時間做的是包含說他可以提供文件認證以及商務開拓這個是NGO的工作嗎部長即使他有向內政部登記為社團他如果違反了他登記的這個目的那有進行這個商務的行為是不是明確的違法這個如果違法就要辦啊要辦對不對部長司法機關還有這是大家就是要\n\n20\n00:06:36,746 --> 00:06:53,082\n臺灣人民是有受害人那個在官司進行因為我們這個部分是屬於就是說因為我們駐台的這三個代表處或辦事處他們有被司法包括警察所謂的要傳訊的還要被抓去調查我們這個部分\n\n21\n00:06:55,505 --> 00:07:13,462\n國際機關對於外交豁免權的概念不夠清楚這是另外一回事但現在問題是這個這個為組織在外面繼續招搖撞騙對不對前面也不是沒有對過我們也是要有證據啦讓外交部你們跟內政部現在有沒有商量要怎麼處理這個事有沒有現在具體進度在哪裡\n\n22\n00:07:14,483 --> 00:07:39,969\n他這樣等於是形同對其他國家對我們在駐台的大使造成的騷擾嘛對造成一些困境我們要怎麼處理要不要積極幫他們主張他們的權益一定要保護我們這個駐台的這個呃呃呃此節跟他們呃代表處或是呃呃這個哈的外交上面的權益要不要跟內政部長喊喊話這個是要嚴肅辦理他是去登記但是他的他的\n\n23\n00:07:40,689 --> 00:08:05,817\n你辦理的業務或是行為有沒有違法這個是需要去查才能夠了解的我們也不能夠現在就去論斷你說不能夠現在論斷這個很清楚違反NGO的設立對不對宣稱自己是商務代表還協助辦了簽證結果是假的被正式的官方被打槍這就標準詐騙已經被認證了當然是違法行為現在違法行為就是要具體的事證來加以這個所以部長你認為到現在這個是沒有具體的事證嗎\n\n24\n00:08:09,938 --> 00:08:15,311\n如果就媒體報導那個是有事證喔欸你們部裡面沒有處理過這個事嗎來那個應該是亞非斯啦對不對\n\n25\n00:08:19,192 --> 00:08:19,572\n我提醒外交部強度不夠\n\n26\n00:08:46,857 --> 00:08:57,216\n但是嚴重影響我們持續在跟內政部一直在有可能會影響邦誼這是一件大事啊部長司長該強硬就強硬這個嚴重影響我們的外交狀況因為請內政部嚴肅處理啊難道不應該嗎部長\n\n27\n00:08:59,739 --> 00:09:20,443\n對阿,就是如果有違反登記去執行不是屬於法定的業務阿,這當然就要查辦明確了嘛,要查辦對不對,早講就好只是因為後來他們去告嘛,阿這個過程我剛剛講的就是有關於因為這些駐台的代表或是他們辦事處的這些外交的權,我們要去維護他\n\n28\n00:09:23,024 --> 00:09:24,045\n我們一定是伊法來執行\n\n29\n00:09:47,613 --> 00:09:47,774\n謝謝辛苦了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n441\t3984\t好 謝謝主席 外交部長有請有請外交部長好 部長午安這幾個重大時事請教一下外交部的一些意見當然剛剛前面很多委員也關心我們的余大雷這個大使說我們已經做好準備\n22689\t50663\t這個面對戰爭我們要學習烏克蘭不需要美國的援助這個事情不是遇到侵略的時候大家要不要迎難而上的問題當然要迎難而上啊有誰會不保衛自己的國家呢對不對所以我是覺得外交部在評論這件事情的時候不要放錯重點大家都要迎難而上可是我覺得這件事情最大的問題是講不需要美國援助這是一個很大的事情請問部長不依靠美軍美軍不用出兵是否已經成為我們中華民國外交部的官方立場\n52343\t68712\t根據台灣關係法,美國如果是要能夠來提供台灣自我防禦的能力以外當然也有相對應的所謂六項保證\n70154\t97983\t在政治上來講尤其是國內安定民心的角度來講大家都期待尤其是民進黨政府執政的期間除了抗中保台之外我們也是全球所謂的民主大聯盟的重要議員從美方的角度來出發讓重要民國維持民主國家的地位避免中共的擴張是不是美國重要的國家戰略意義很重要應該是很重要對不對所以在過去我們所看到的所有的宣傳語言上是不是都說他們會支持我們\n98991\t106710\t那現在中國大陸這邊大軍壓境對不對動輒文攻武嚇萬一真的哪一天走到戰爭的時候我們真的不需要美軍的幫忙嗎\n108174\t128696\t我們很希望美軍能夠協助臺灣來對抗這個中國的群裂啊很希望啊你講我們要學烏克蘭也有臺灣關係嘛還有六項保證這些而且各種的法律通過的還有這些撥款相關的這些包括他們的這個\n130958\t145525\t參眾兩院通過的法律那個都是有效的當真正遇到大型的國際衝突甚至到戰爭的時候當然很多的情勢就會改變了我現在問外交部的是這到底是不是我們的官方主張因為余大雷是重要的角色他在美國的福斯新聞受了專訪\n146305\t149387\t臺灣有自我防衛的能力,如果中共侵略臺灣,那我們在哪裡抵抗啊?\n162136\t181752\t有一套的說法就大概在媒體輿論上面講叫以美論也就是說大家在挑戰說他們真的會出兵嗎?真的會大力協助嗎?大家就扣這個是以美論對不對那現在是等於我們中華民國最外對外的正式的官方代表等於是在唱和之間不用不用來所以我講這是很嚴重我希望部長你做好準備啦\n182392\t201385\t你現在在美國人面前他如果是我們重要的盟友如果民主大聯盟的戰略價值那是不可動搖的那從重要民國的國家安全國家立場裡面你當然要在美國人面前積極主張嘛你當然要主張必要的時候你當然要出兵協防因為這是這是避免威權國家集權擴張的重要的防線\n202586\t221981\t我們要不要做這樣的主張部長當然自助人助嘛我們一定要自己就是說要有這個保護自己的這個決心跟能力嘛我們的友邦他們也一定會來協助我們嘛來維護我們這個民主自由我覺得你今天的回答沒有很有底氣\n222601\t244739\t剛好米娟大雷公使在外面受訪是在福斯新聞馬上現在是美國大選川普又曾經講這個我們是絕對不會出兵的你如果今天我們的官方立場不講清楚不積極主張沒有啦他沒有講絕對不出兵啦你很難去認你很難去不讓大家去聯想這是被押寶而且是順應我再次強調既然美國是我們重要的盟友\n245359\t262439\t我們都要維繫兩邊的關係是我們都完全支持也不會反對我們都希望外交人好好發揮但是問題就是支持不代表你要百分之百順應啊我很擔心這樣子的言論你講這樣的言論也許背後有一些外交上的戰略考量還是說部長你要分享一下他這樣去講\n263500\t277967\t請問對我國國家利益有什麼具體的幫助?背後的戰略考量是什麼?你如果在這一部分你可以講出一套論述一套說明讓國內的民心可以安定那也就算了但看起來從你剛剛答詢講法條的東西或什麼的我提醒部長這個事情要\n278707\t300436\t我跟委員報告其實我們過去跟川普政府跟拜登政府都有很好的合作而且美國是參眾兩院跨黨派支持台灣他們都已經把支持的話講得這麼清楚了為了安全要全球共同這是全世界的事情不是我們自己的事情\n301036\t318509\t臺灣是全世界的事情,這樣才能夠最大化國際上對我們的支持跟聲援才能夠最大化我們國家安全的利益我們期待看到外交部的立場是這樣臺灣是全世界的事情,但是全世界包含具體的軍事協助你不能夠自己講自己自結武裝這是不對的,是在外交戰場上\n321450\t336354\t這一定要小心為之啊,這重點不是我們要不要對抗,當然要對抗,人家都親門他戶了,每一個人這是我們國民的義務,可是全世界也要幫忙。從余大連的講話到全社會什麼防衛動員任性,就是學烏克蘭,他們有幫烏克蘭嗎?這就是我們擔心的事情嘛。\n344497\t367539\t所以請積極主張好不好 外交部部長這是我非常重要的提醒第二個重要的時事這個今天上頭版阿拉伯組織了一個非官方的詐騙集團然後反過來告我們正式住在這邊的大使那不是笑話一則嗎部長我知道你前面也回答過剛剛徐小新委員關心對不對你講說你會積極處理是人民團體的登記當然主責是在內政部嘛\n368140\t395465\t主持人內政部的時候這個以NGO為名義來登錄可是請問他最近這段時間做的是包含說他可以提供文件認證以及商務開拓這個是NGO的工作嗎部長即使他有向內政部登記為社團他如果違反了他登記的這個目的那有進行這個商務的行為是不是明確的違法這個如果違法就要辦啊要辦對不對部長司法機關還有這是大家就是要\n396746\t413082\t臺灣人民是有受害人那個在官司進行因為我們這個部分是屬於就是說因為我們駐台的這三個代表處或辦事處他們有被司法包括警察所謂的要傳訊的還要被抓去調查我們這個部分\n415505\t433462\t國際機關對於外交豁免權的概念不夠清楚這是另外一回事但現在問題是這個這個為組織在外面繼續招搖撞騙對不對前面也不是沒有對過我們也是要有證據啦讓外交部你們跟內政部現在有沒有商量要怎麼處理這個事有沒有現在具體進度在哪裡\n434483\t459969\t他這樣等於是形同對其他國家對我們在駐台的大使造成的騷擾嘛對造成一些困境我們要怎麼處理要不要積極幫他們主張他們的權益一定要保護我們這個駐台的這個呃呃呃此節跟他們呃代表處或是呃呃這個哈的外交上面的權益要不要跟內政部長喊喊話這個是要嚴肅辦理他是去登記但是他的他的\n460689\t485817\t你辦理的業務或是行為有沒有違法這個是需要去查才能夠了解的我們也不能夠現在就去論斷你說不能夠現在論斷這個很清楚違反NGO的設立對不對宣稱自己是商務代表還協助辦了簽證結果是假的被正式的官方被打槍這就標準詐騙已經被認證了當然是違法行為現在違法行為就是要具體的事證來加以這個所以部長你認為到現在這個是沒有具體的事證嗎\n489938\t495311\t如果就媒體報導那個是有事證喔欸你們部裡面沒有處理過這個事嗎來那個應該是亞非斯啦對不對\n499192\t499572\t我提醒外交部強度不夠\n526857\t537216\t但是嚴重影響我們持續在跟內政部一直在有可能會影響邦誼這是一件大事啊部長司長該強硬就強硬這個嚴重影響我們的外交狀況因為請內政部嚴肅處理啊難道不應該嗎部長\n539739\t560443\t對阿,就是如果有違反登記去執行不是屬於法定的業務阿,這當然就要查辦明確了嘛,要查辦對不對,早講就好只是因為後來他們去告嘛,阿這個過程我剛剛講的就是有關於因為這些駐台的代表或是他們辦事處的這些外交的權,我們要去維護他\n563024\t564045\t我們一定是伊法來執行\n587613\t587774\t謝謝辛苦了\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 外交部長有請有請外交部長好 部長午安這幾個重大時事請教一下外交部的一些意見當然剛剛前面很多委員也關心我們的余大雷這個大使說我們已經做好準備\n這個面對戰爭我們要學習烏克蘭不需要美國的援助這個事情不是遇到侵略的時候大家要不要迎難而上的問題當然要迎難而上啊有誰會不保衛自己的國家呢對不對所以我是覺得外交部在評論這件事情的時候不要放錯重點大家都要迎難而上可是我覺得這件事情最大的問題是講不需要美國援助這是一個很大的事情請問部長不依靠美軍美軍不用出兵是否已經成為我們中華民國外交部的官方立場\n根據台灣關係法,美國如果是要能夠來提供台灣自我防禦的能力以外當然也有相對應的所謂六項保證\n在政治上來講尤其是國內安定民心的角度來講大家都期待尤其是民進黨政府執政的期間除了抗中保台之外我們也是全球所謂的民主大聯盟的重要議員從美方的角度來出發讓重要民國維持民主國家的地位避免中共的擴張是不是美國重要的國家戰略意義很重要應該是很重要對不對所以在過去我們所看到的所有的宣傳語言上是不是都說他們會支持我們\n那現在中國大陸這邊大軍壓境對不對動輒文攻武嚇萬一真的哪一天走到戰爭的時候我們真的不需要美軍的幫忙嗎\n我們很希望美軍能夠協助臺灣來對抗這個中國的群裂啊很希望啊你講我們要學烏克蘭也有臺灣關係嘛還有六項保證這些而且各種的法律通過的還有這些撥款相關的這些包括他們的這個\n參眾兩院通過的法律那個都是有效的當真正遇到大型的國際衝突甚至到戰爭的時候當然很多的情勢就會改變了我現在問外交部的是這到底是不是我們的官方主張因為余大雷是重要的角色他在美國的福斯新聞受了專訪\n臺灣有自我防衛的能力,如果中共侵略臺灣,那我們在哪裡抵抗啊?\n有一套的說法就大概在媒體輿論上面講叫以美論也就是說大家在挑戰說他們真的會出兵嗎?真的會大力協助嗎?大家就扣這個是以美論對不對那現在是等於我們中華民國最外對外的正式的官方代表等於是在唱和之間不用不用來所以我講這是很嚴重我希望部長你做好準備啦\n你現在在美國人面前他如果是我們重要的盟友如果民主大聯盟的戰略價值那是不可動搖的那從重要民國的國家安全國家立場裡面你當然要在美國人面前積極主張嘛你當然要主張必要的時候你當然要出兵協防因為這是這是避免威權國家集權擴張的重要的防線\n我們要不要做這樣的主張部長當然自助人助嘛我們一定要自己就是說要有這個保護自己的這個決心跟能力嘛我們的友邦他們也一定會來協助我們嘛來維護我們這個民主自由我覺得你今天的回答沒有很有底氣\n剛好米娟大雷公使在外面受訪是在福斯新聞馬上現在是美國大選川普又曾經講這個我們是絕對不會出兵的你如果今天我們的官方立場不講清楚不積極主張沒有啦他沒有講絕對不出兵啦你很難去認你很難去不讓大家去聯想這是被押寶而且是順應我再次強調既然美國是我們重要的盟友\n我們都要維繫兩邊的關係是我們都完全支持也不會反對我們都希望外交人好好發揮但是問題就是支持不代表你要百分之百順應啊我很擔心這樣子的言論你講這樣的言論也許背後有一些外交上的戰略考量還是說部長你要分享一下他這樣去講\n請問對我國國家利益有什麼具體的幫助?背後的戰略考量是什麼?你如果在這一部分你可以講出一套論述一套說明讓國內的民心可以安定那也就算了但看起來從你剛剛答詢講法條的東西或什麼的我提醒部長這個事情要\n我跟委員報告其實我們過去跟川普政府跟拜登政府都有很好的合作而且美國是參眾兩院跨黨派支持台灣他們都已經把支持的話講得這麼清楚了為了安全要全球共同這是全世界的事情不是我們自己的事情\n臺灣是全世界的事情,這樣才能夠最大化國際上對我們的支持跟聲援才能夠最大化我們國家安全的利益我們期待看到外交部的立場是這樣臺灣是全世界的事情,但是全世界包含具體的軍事協助你不能夠自己講自己自結武裝這是不對的,是在外交戰場上\n這一定要小心為之啊,這重點不是我們要不要對抗,當然要對抗,人家都親門他戶了,每一個人這是我們國民的義務,可是全世界也要幫忙。從余大連的講話到全社會什麼防衛動員任性,就是學烏克蘭,他們有幫烏克蘭嗎?這就是我們擔心的事情嘛。\n所以請積極主張好不好 外交部部長這是我非常重要的提醒第二個重要的時事這個今天上頭版阿拉伯組織了一個非官方的詐騙集團然後反過來告我們正式住在這邊的大使那不是笑話一則嗎部長我知道你前面也回答過剛剛徐小新委員關心對不對你講說你會積極處理是人民團體的登記當然主責是在內政部嘛\n主持人內政部的時候這個以NGO為名義來登錄可是請問他最近這段時間做的是包含說他可以提供文件認證以及商務開拓這個是NGO的工作嗎部長即使他有向內政部登記為社團他如果違反了他登記的這個目的那有進行這個商務的行為是不是明確的違法這個如果違法就要辦啊要辦對不對部長司法機關還有這是大家就是要\n臺灣人民是有受害人那個在官司進行因為我們這個部分是屬於就是說因為我們駐台的這三個代表處或辦事處他們有被司法包括警察所謂的要傳訊的還要被抓去調查我們這個部分\n國際機關對於外交豁免權的概念不夠清楚這是另外一回事但現在問題是這個這個為組織在外面繼續招搖撞騙對不對前面也不是沒有對過我們也是要有證據啦讓外交部你們跟內政部現在有沒有商量要怎麼處理這個事有沒有現在具體進度在哪裡\n他這樣等於是形同對其他國家對我們在駐台的大使造成的騷擾嘛對造成一些困境我們要怎麼處理要不要積極幫他們主張他們的權益一定要保護我們這個駐台的這個呃呃呃此節跟他們呃代表處或是呃呃這個哈的外交上面的權益要不要跟內政部長喊喊話這個是要嚴肅辦理他是去登記但是他的他的\n你辦理的業務或是行為有沒有違法這個是需要去查才能夠了解的我們也不能夠現在就去論斷你說不能夠現在論斷這個很清楚違反NGO的設立對不對宣稱自己是商務代表還協助辦了簽證結果是假的被正式的官方被打槍這就標準詐騙已經被認證了當然是違法行為現在違法行為就是要具體的事證來加以這個所以部長你認為到現在這個是沒有具體的事證嗎\n如果就媒體報導那個是有事證喔欸你們部裡面沒有處理過這個事嗎來那個應該是亞非斯啦對不對\n我提醒外交部強度不夠\n但是嚴重影響我們持續在跟內政部一直在有可能會影響邦誼這是一件大事啊部長司長該強硬就強硬這個嚴重影響我們的外交狀況因為請內政部嚴肅處理啊難道不應該嗎部長\n對阿,就是如果有違反登記去執行不是屬於法定的業務阿,這當然就要查辦明確了嘛,要查辦對不對,早講就好只是因為後來他們去告嘛,阿這個過程我剛剛講的就是有關於因為這些駐台的代表或是他們辦事處的這些外交的權,我們要去維護他\n我們一定是伊法來執行\n謝謝辛苦了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.441 --> 00:03.984\n好謝謝主席外交部長有請有請外交部長好部長午安這幾個重大時事請教一下外交部的一些意見當然剛剛前面很多委員也關心我們的余大雷這個大使說我們已經做好準備\n\n00:22.689 --> 00:50.663\n這個面對戰爭我們要學習烏克蘭不需要美國的援助這個事情不是遇到侵略的時候大家要不要迎難而上的問題當然要迎難而上啊有誰會不保衛自己的國家呢對不對所以我是覺得外交部在評論這件事情的時候不要放錯重點大家都要迎難而上可是我覺得這件事情最大的問題是講不需要美國援助這是一個很大的事情請問部長不依靠美軍美軍不用出兵是否已經成為我們中華民國外交部的官方立場\n\n00:52.343 --> 01:08.712\n根據台灣關係法,美國如果是要能夠來提供台灣自我防禦的能力以外當然也有相對應的所謂六項保證\n\n01:10.154 --> 01:37.983\n在政治上來講尤其是國內安定民心的角度來講大家都期待尤其是民進黨政府執政的期間除了抗中保台之外我們也是全球所謂的民主大聯盟的重要議員從美方的角度來出發讓重要民國維持民主國家的地位避免中共的擴張是不是美國重要的國家戰略意義很重要應該是很重要對不對所以在過去我們所看到的所有的宣傳語言上是不是都說他們會支持我們\n\n01:38.991 --> 01:46.710\n那現在中國大陸這邊大軍壓境對不對動輒文攻武嚇萬一真的哪一天走到戰爭的時候我們真的不需要美軍的幫忙嗎\n\n01:48.174 --> 02:08.696\n我們很希望美軍能夠協助臺灣來對抗這個中國的群裂啊很希望啊你講我們要學烏克蘭也有臺灣關係嘛還有六項保證這些而且各種的法律通過的還有這些撥款相關的這些包括他們的這個\n\n02:10.958 --> 02:25.525\n參眾兩院通過的法律那個都是有效的當真正遇到大型的國際衝突甚至到戰爭的時候當然很多的情勢就會改變了我現在問外交部的是這到底是不是我們的官方主張因為余大雷是重要的角色他在美國的福斯新聞受了專訪\n\n02:26.305 --> 02:29.387\n臺灣有自我防衛的能力,如果中共侵略臺灣,那我們在哪裡抵抗啊?\n\n02:42.136 --> 03:01.752\n有一套的說法就大概在媒體輿論上面講叫以美論也就是說大家在挑戰說他們真的會出兵嗎?真的會大力協助嗎?大家就扣這個是以美論對不對那現在是等於我們中華民國最外對外的正式的官方代表等於是在唱和之間不用不用來所以我講這是很嚴重我希望部長你做好準備啦\n\n03:02.392 --> 03:21.385\n你現在在美國人面前他如果是我們重要的盟友如果民主大聯盟的戰略價值那是不可動搖的那從重要民國的國家安全國家立場裡面你當然要在美國人面前積極主張嘛你當然要主張必要的時候你當然要出兵協防因為這是這是避免威權國家集權擴張的重要的防線\n\n03:22.586 --> 03:41.981\n我們要不要做這樣的主張部長當然自助人助嘛我們一定要自己就是說要有這個保護自己的這個決心跟能力嘛我們的友邦他們也一定會來協助我們嘛來維護我們這個民主自由我覺得你今天的回答沒有很有底氣\n\n03:42.601 --> 04:04.739\n剛好米娟大雷公使在外面受訪是在福斯新聞馬上現在是美國大選川普又曾經講這個我們是絕對不會出兵的你如果今天我們的官方立場不講清楚不積極主張沒有啦他沒有講絕對不出兵啦你很難去認你很難去不讓大家去聯想這是被押寶而且是順應我再次強調既然美國是我們重要的盟友\n\n04:05.359 --> 04:22.439\n我們都要維繫兩邊的關係是我們都完全支持也不會反對我們都希望外交人好好發揮但是問題就是支持不代表你要百分之百順應啊我很擔心這樣子的言論你講這樣的言論也許背後有一些外交上的戰略考量還是說部長你要分享一下他這樣去講\n\n04:23.500 --> 04:37.967\n請問對我國國家利益有什麼具體的幫助?背後的戰略考量是什麼?你如果在這一部分你可以講出一套論述一套說明讓國內的民心可以安定那也就算了但看起來從你剛剛答詢講法條的東西或什麼的我提醒部長這個事情要\n\n04:38.707 --> 05:00.436\n我跟委員報告其實我們過去跟川普政府跟拜登政府都有很好的合作而且美國是參眾兩院跨黨派支持台灣他們都已經把支持的話講得這麼清楚了為了安全要全球共同這是全世界的事情不是我們自己的事情\n\n05:01.036 --> 05:18.509\n臺灣是全世界的事情,這樣才能夠最大化國際上對我們的支持跟聲援才能夠最大化我們國家安全的利益我們期待看到外交部的立場是這樣臺灣是全世界的事情,但是全世界包含具體的軍事協助你不能夠自己講自己自結武裝這是不對的,是在外交戰場上\n\n05:21.450 --> 05:36.354\n這一定要小心為之啊,這重點不是我們要不要對抗,當然要對抗,人家都親門他戶了,每一個人這是我們國民的義務,可是全世界也要幫忙。從余大連的講話到全社會什麼防衛動員任性,就是學烏克蘭,他們有幫烏克蘭嗎?這就是我們擔心的事情嘛。\n\n05:44.497 --> 06:07.539\n所以請積極主張好不好外交部部長這是我非常重要的提醒第二個重要的時事這個今天上頭版阿拉伯組織了一個非官方的詐騙集團然後反過來告我們正式住在這邊的大使那不是笑話一則嗎部長我知道你前面也回答過剛剛徐小新委員關心對不對你講說你會積極處理是人民團體的登記當然主責是在內政部嘛\n\n06:08.140 --> 06:35.465\n主持人內政部的時候這個以NGO為名義來登錄可是請問他最近這段時間做的是包含說他可以提供文件認證以及商務開拓這個是NGO的工作嗎部長即使他有向內政部登記為社團他如果違反了他登記的這個目的那有進行這個商務的行為是不是明確的違法這個如果違法就要辦啊要辦對不對部長司法機關還有這是大家就是要\n\n06:36.746 --> 06:53.082\n臺灣人民是有受害人那個在官司進行因為我們這個部分是屬於就是說因為我們駐台的這三個代表處或辦事處他們有被司法包括警察所謂的要傳訊的還要被抓去調查我們這個部分\n\n06:55.505 --> 07:13.462\n國際機關對於外交豁免權的概念不夠清楚這是另外一回事但現在問題是這個這個為組織在外面繼續招搖撞騙對不對前面也不是沒有對過我們也是要有證據啦讓外交部你們跟內政部現在有沒有商量要怎麼處理這個事有沒有現在具體進度在哪裡\n\n07:14.483 --> 07:39.969\n他這樣等於是形同對其他國家對我們在駐台的大使造成的騷擾嘛對造成一些困境我們要怎麼處理要不要積極幫他們主張他們的權益一定要保護我們這個駐台的這個呃呃呃此節跟他們呃代表處或是呃呃這個哈的外交上面的權益要不要跟內政部長喊喊話這個是要嚴肅辦理他是去登記但是他的他的\n\n07:40.689 --> 08:05.817\n你辦理的業務或是行為有沒有違法這個是需要去查才能夠了解的我們也不能夠現在就去論斷你說不能夠現在論斷這個很清楚違反NGO的設立對不對宣稱自己是商務代表還協助辦了簽證結果是假的被正式的官方被打槍這就標準詐騙已經被認證了當然是違法行為現在違法行為就是要具體的事證來加以這個所以部長你認為到現在這個是沒有具體的事證嗎\n\n08:09.938 --> 08:15.311\n如果就媒體報導那個是有事證喔欸你們部裡面沒有處理過這個事嗎來那個應該是亞非斯啦對不對\n\n08:19.192 --> 08:19.572\n我提醒外交部強度不夠\n\n08:46.857 --> 08:57.216\n但是嚴重影響我們持續在跟內政部一直在有可能會影響邦誼這是一件大事啊部長司長該強硬就強硬這個嚴重影響我們的外交狀況因為請內政部嚴肅處理啊難道不應該嗎部長\n\n08:59.739 --> 09:20.443\n對阿,就是如果有違反登記去執行不是屬於法定的業務阿,這當然就要查辦明確了嘛,要查辦對不對,早講就好只是因為後來他們去告嘛,阿這個過程我剛剛講的就是有關於因為這些駐台的代表或是他們辦事處的這些外交的權,我們要去維護他\n\n09:23.024 --> 09:24.045\n我們一定是伊法來執行\n\n09:47.613 --> 09:47.774\n謝謝辛苦了\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.441,"end":3.984,"text":"好 謝謝主席 外交部長有請有請外交部長好 部長午安這幾個重大時事請教一下外交部的一些意見當然剛剛前面很多委員也關心我們的余大雷這個大使說我們已經做好準備"},{"start":22.689,"end":50.663,"text":"這個面對戰爭我們要學習烏克蘭不需要美國的援助這個事情不是遇到侵略的時候大家要不要迎難而上的問題當然要迎難而上啊有誰會不保衛自己的國家呢對不對所以我是覺得外交部在評論這件事情的時候不要放錯重點大家都要迎難而上可是我覺得這件事情最大的問題是講不需要美國援助這是一個很大的事情請問部長不依靠美軍美軍不用出兵是否已經成為我們中華民國外交部的官方立場"},{"start":52.343,"end":68.712,"text":"根據台灣關係法,美國如果是要能夠來提供台灣自我防禦的能力以外當然也有相對應的所謂六項保證"},{"start":70.154,"end":97.983,"text":"在政治上來講尤其是國內安定民心的角度來講大家都期待尤其是民進黨政府執政的期間除了抗中保台之外我們也是全球所謂的民主大聯盟的重要議員從美方的角度來出發讓重要民國維持民主國家的地位避免中共的擴張是不是美國重要的國家戰略意義很重要應該是很重要對不對所以在過去我們所看到的所有的宣傳語言上是不是都說他們會支持我們"},{"start":98.991,"end":106.71,"text":"那現在中國大陸這邊大軍壓境對不對動輒文攻武嚇萬一真的哪一天走到戰爭的時候我們真的不需要美軍的幫忙嗎"},{"start":108.174,"end":128.696,"text":"我們很希望美軍能夠協助臺灣來對抗這個中國的群裂啊很希望啊你講我們要學烏克蘭也有臺灣關係嘛還有六項保證這些而且各種的法律通過的還有這些撥款相關的這些包括他們的這個"},{"start":130.958,"end":145.525,"text":"參眾兩院通過的法律那個都是有效的當真正遇到大型的國際衝突甚至到戰爭的時候當然很多的情勢就會改變了我現在問外交部的是這到底是不是我們的官方主張因為余大雷是重要的角色他在美國的福斯新聞受了專訪"},{"start":146.305,"end":149.387,"text":"臺灣有自我防衛的能力,如果中共侵略臺灣,那我們在哪裡抵抗啊?"},{"start":162.136,"end":181.752,"text":"有一套的說法就大概在媒體輿論上面講叫以美論也就是說大家在挑戰說他們真的會出兵嗎?真的會大力協助嗎?大家就扣這個是以美論對不對那現在是等於我們中華民國最外對外的正式的官方代表等於是在唱和之間不用不用來所以我講這是很嚴重我希望部長你做好準備啦"},{"start":182.392,"end":201.385,"text":"你現在在美國人面前他如果是我們重要的盟友如果民主大聯盟的戰略價值那是不可動搖的那從重要民國的國家安全國家立場裡面你當然要在美國人面前積極主張嘛你當然要主張必要的時候你當然要出兵協防因為這是這是避免威權國家集權擴張的重要的防線"},{"start":202.586,"end":221.981,"text":"我們要不要做這樣的主張部長當然自助人助嘛我們一定要自己就是說要有這個保護自己的這個決心跟能力嘛我們的友邦他們也一定會來協助我們嘛來維護我們這個民主自由我覺得你今天的回答沒有很有底氣"},{"start":222.601,"end":244.739,"text":"剛好米娟大雷公使在外面受訪是在福斯新聞馬上現在是美國大選川普又曾經講這個我們是絕對不會出兵的你如果今天我們的官方立場不講清楚不積極主張沒有啦他沒有講絕對不出兵啦你很難去認你很難去不讓大家去聯想這是被押寶而且是順應我再次強調既然美國是我們重要的盟友"},{"start":245.359,"end":262.439,"text":"我們都要維繫兩邊的關係是我們都完全支持也不會反對我們都希望外交人好好發揮但是問題就是支持不代表你要百分之百順應啊我很擔心這樣子的言論你講這樣的言論也許背後有一些外交上的戰略考量還是說部長你要分享一下他這樣去講"},{"start":263.5,"end":277.967,"text":"請問對我國國家利益有什麼具體的幫助?背後的戰略考量是什麼?你如果在這一部分你可以講出一套論述一套說明讓國內的民心可以安定那也就算了但看起來從你剛剛答詢講法條的東西或什麼的我提醒部長這個事情要"},{"start":278.707,"end":300.436,"text":"我跟委員報告其實我們過去跟川普政府跟拜登政府都有很好的合作而且美國是參眾兩院跨黨派支持台灣他們都已經把支持的話講得這麼清楚了為了安全要全球共同這是全世界的事情不是我們自己的事情"},{"start":301.036,"end":318.509,"text":"臺灣是全世界的事情,這樣才能夠最大化國際上對我們的支持跟聲援才能夠最大化我們國家安全的利益我們期待看到外交部的立場是這樣臺灣是全世界的事情,但是全世界包含具體的軍事協助你不能夠自己講自己自結武裝這是不對的,是在外交戰場上"},{"start":321.45,"end":336.354,"text":"這一定要小心為之啊,這重點不是我們要不要對抗,當然要對抗,人家都親門他戶了,每一個人這是我們國民的義務,可是全世界也要幫忙。從余大連的講話到全社會什麼防衛動員任性,就是學烏克蘭,他們有幫烏克蘭嗎?這就是我們擔心的事情嘛。"},{"start":344.497,"end":367.539,"text":"所以請積極主張好不好 外交部部長這是我非常重要的提醒第二個重要的時事這個今天上頭版阿拉伯組織了一個非官方的詐騙集團然後反過來告我們正式住在這邊的大使那不是笑話一則嗎部長我知道你前面也回答過剛剛徐小新委員關心對不對你講說你會積極處理是人民團體的登記當然主責是在內政部嘛"},{"start":368.14,"end":395.465,"text":"主持人內政部的時候這個以NGO為名義來登錄可是請問他最近這段時間做的是包含說他可以提供文件認證以及商務開拓這個是NGO的工作嗎部長即使他有向內政部登記為社團他如果違反了他登記的這個目的那有進行這個商務的行為是不是明確的違法這個如果違法就要辦啊要辦對不對部長司法機關還有這是大家就是要"},{"start":396.746,"end":413.082,"text":"臺灣人民是有受害人那個在官司進行因為我們這個部分是屬於就是說因為我們駐台的這三個代表處或辦事處他們有被司法包括警察所謂的要傳訊的還要被抓去調查我們這個部分"},{"start":415.505,"end":433.462,"text":"國際機關對於外交豁免權的概念不夠清楚這是另外一回事但現在問題是這個這個為組織在外面繼續招搖撞騙對不對前面也不是沒有對過我們也是要有證據啦讓外交部你們跟內政部現在有沒有商量要怎麼處理這個事有沒有現在具體進度在哪裡"},{"start":434.483,"end":459.969,"text":"他這樣等於是形同對其他國家對我們在駐台的大使造成的騷擾嘛對造成一些困境我們要怎麼處理要不要積極幫他們主張他們的權益一定要保護我們這個駐台的這個呃呃呃此節跟他們呃代表處或是呃呃這個哈的外交上面的權益要不要跟內政部長喊喊話這個是要嚴肅辦理他是去登記但是他的他的"},{"start":460.689,"end":485.817,"text":"你辦理的業務或是行為有沒有違法這個是需要去查才能夠了解的我們也不能夠現在就去論斷你說不能夠現在論斷這個很清楚違反NGO的設立對不對宣稱自己是商務代表還協助辦了簽證結果是假的被正式的官方被打槍這就標準詐騙已經被認證了當然是違法行為現在違法行為就是要具體的事證來加以這個所以部長你認為到現在這個是沒有具體的事證嗎"},{"start":489.938,"end":495.311,"text":"如果就媒體報導那個是有事證喔欸你們部裡面沒有處理過這個事嗎來那個應該是亞非斯啦對不對"},{"start":499.192,"end":499.572,"text":"我提醒外交部強度不夠"},{"start":526.857,"end":537.216,"text":"但是嚴重影響我們持續在跟內政部一直在有可能會影響邦誼這是一件大事啊部長司長該強硬就強硬這個嚴重影響我們的外交狀況因為請內政部嚴肅處理啊難道不應該嗎部長"},{"start":539.739,"end":560.443,"text":"對阿,就是如果有違反登記去執行不是屬於法定的業務阿,這當然就要查辦明確了嘛,要查辦對不對,早講就好只是因為後來他們去告嘛,阿這個過程我剛剛講的就是有關於因為這些駐台的代表或是他們辦事處的這些外交的權,我們要去維護他"},{"start":563.024,"end":564.045,"text":"我們一定是伊法來執行"},{"start":587.613,"end":587.774,"text":"謝謝辛苦了"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":665,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（12時9分）謝謝主席，外交部長有請。"],["主席：有請外交部長。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長午安。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：幾個重大時事請教一下外交部的意見，當然剛剛前面很多委員也關心俞大大使說，我們已經做好準備，面對戰爭要學習烏克蘭，不需要美國的援助。這個事情不是遇到侵略時，大家要不要迎難而上的問題，當然要迎難而上啊！有誰會不保衛自己的國家呢，對不對？所以我覺得外交部在評論這件事情時不要放錯重點，大家都要迎難而上，可是我覺得這件事情最大的問題是講不需要美國援助，這是一個很大的事情啊！請問部長，不依靠美軍，美軍不用出兵，是否已經成為我們中華民國外交部的官方立場？"],["林部長佳龍：因為根據臺灣關係法，美國如果要提供臺灣自我防禦的能力以外，當然也有相對應的所謂六項保證。"],["牛委員煦庭：可是在政治上，尤其是從國內安定民心的角度來講，大家都期待，尤其是民進黨政府執政期間，除了抗中保臺之外，我們也是全球所謂民主大聯盟的重要一員，從美方的角度出發，讓中華民國維持民主國家的地位，避免中共擴張是不是美國重要的國家戰略利益？"],["林部長佳龍：對，很重要。"],["牛委員煦庭：應該是很重要，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以過去我們所看到的所有宣傳語言上是不是都說他們會支持我們？現在中國大陸大軍壓境，動輒文攻武嚇，萬一真的哪一天走到戰爭的時候，我們真的不需要美軍的幫忙嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我們很希望美軍能夠協助臺灣來對抗中國的侵略。"],["牛委員煦庭：很希望，但你講我們要學烏克蘭……"],["林部長佳龍：因為臺灣關係法跟六項保證，而且各種法律通過還有撥款相關，包括他們參眾兩院通過的法律，那個都是有效的。"],["牛委員煦庭：當真正遇到大型的國際衝突，甚至是戰爭的時候，很多情勢當然就會改變。我現在問外交部的是，這到底是不是我們的官方主張，因為俞大是重要的角色，他在美國福斯新聞受了專訪，這當然是國際震動的事情，所以部長要不要正式澄清一下，到底……"],["林部長佳龍：因為大家很關心，我詳細看過他的訪問，我覺得他講的就是臺灣有自我防衛的能力，如果中共侵略臺灣，那我們當然要抵抗啊！"],["牛委員煦庭：有一套說法，大家在媒體輿論上面講的疑美論，也就是大家在挑戰他們真的會出兵嗎？真的會大力協助嗎？大家就扣這個是疑美論，對不對？現在我們中華民國對外正式的官方代表等於是在唱和這件事，認為美國不用來……"],["林部長佳龍：這是……"],["牛委員煦庭：我想這是很嚴重的，我希望部長你做好準備，你現在在美國人面前，如果他們是我們重要的盟友，如果民主大聯盟的戰略價值是不可動搖的，從中華民國的國家安全、國家立場，你當然要在美國人面前積極主張，當然要主張必要的時候要出兵協防，因為這是避免威權國家極權擴張的重要防線，我們要不要做這樣的主張？部長。"],["林部長佳龍：當然自助人助嘛，我們自己一定要有保護自己的決心跟能力……"],["牛委員煦庭：我順著這個話……"],["林部長佳龍：當然我們的友邦也一定會來協助我們，維護我們民主自由……"],["牛委員煦庭：部長，我覺得您今天的回答沒有很有底氣，剛好俞大大使在外面福斯新聞受訪，馬上就是美國大選，川普又曾經講：我們是絕對不會出兵的。如果今天我們的官方立場不講清楚，不積極主張……"],["林部長佳龍：沒有啦，他沒有講絕對不出兵啦……"],["牛委員煦庭：很難不讓大家去聯想這是不是押寶？而且是順應。我再次強調，既然美國是我們重要的盟友，要維繫兩邊的關係，這我們都完全支持、不會反對，我們都希望外交人員好好發揮，但問題就是支持不代表要百分之百順應，我很擔心這樣子的言論，也許這樣的言論背後有一些外交上的戰略考量，還是部長你要分享一下，請問他這樣講對我國國家利益有什麼具體的幫助？背後的戰略考量是什麼？如果在這部分你可以講出一套論述、一套說明，讓國內的民心可以安定，那也就算了。"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：但看起來從你剛剛答詢，講法條或什麼的，我提醒部長這個事情要審慎因應。"],["林部長佳龍：我跟委員報告，其實我們過去跟川普政府及拜登政府都有很好的合作，而且美國是參眾兩院跨黨派支持臺灣……"],["牛委員煦庭：他們已經把支持的話講得這麼清楚了，該積極主張……"],["林部長佳龍：他們要……"],["牛委員煦庭：為了安全要全球共同，這是全世界的事情，不是我們自己的事情，是全世界的事情，這樣才能夠最大化國際對我們的支持跟聲援，也才能夠最大化國家安全的利益，我很期待看到外交部的立場是這樣。"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：臺灣是全世界的事情，但包含具體的軍事協助，你不能夠自己講自絕於武裝，這是不對的，在外交戰場上自絕於武裝是不對的。"],["林部長佳龍：對、對，我們一定要自助人助。"],["牛委員煦庭：這一定要小心為之，重點不是我們要不要對抗，當然要對抗，人家都侵門踏戶了，這是我們每一個國民的義務，可是全世界也要幫忙，你不能因為我們對抗……"],["林部長佳龍：全社會防禦韌性的加強就是我們的決心之一。"],["牛委員煦庭：從俞大的講話到全社會防禦動員韌性就是學烏克蘭，他們有幫烏克蘭嗎？這就是我們擔心的事情嘛，所以請積極主張，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長，這是我非常重要的提醒。","第二個重要的時事，上了今天的頭版，阿拉伯組織了一個非官方的詐騙集團，然後反過來告我們正式代表處駐在這邊的大使，那不是笑話一則嗎？部長，我知道前面有回答過，剛剛徐巧芯委員有關心，對不對？你說你會積極處理……"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：當然人民團體的登記主責是在內政部，這以NGO為名義登錄，可是請問他們最近這段時間做的事，包含他們可以提供文件認證以及商務開拓，這個是NGO的工作嗎？部長。"],["林部長佳龍：即使它有向內政部登記為社團，如果它違反了登記的……"],["牛委員煦庭：目的，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：違反登記的目的，有進行商務的行為……"],["牛委員煦庭：是不是明確的違法？"],["林部長佳龍：這個如果違法就要辦啊！"],["牛委員煦庭：要辦，對不對？部長……"],["林部長佳龍：司法機關還有大家……"],["牛委員煦庭：臺灣人民是有受害的，那個官司在進行中，你們跟內政部……"],["林部長佳龍：因為我們駐臺的這三個代表處或辦事處，他們有被司法機關，包括警察等有所謂的傳訊……"],["牛委員煦庭：還要被抓去調查？"],["林部長佳龍：是，我們這個部分……"],["牛委員煦庭：也要加強宣導……"],["林部長佳龍：我們要確保……"],["牛委員煦庭：我們自己國內公務機關……"],["林部長佳龍：這個外交豁免權啊！"],["牛委員煦庭：我們自己國內公務機關、國際機關對於外交豁免的概念不夠清楚，這是另外一回事，但現在問題是這個偽組織在外面繼續招搖撞騙，對不對？前面也不是沒有……"],["林部長佳龍：我們也是要有證據啦！讓外交部就事來論……"],["牛委員煦庭：你們跟內政部現在有沒有商量要怎麼處理這個事情？有沒有？現在具體進度在哪裡？這樣等於是形同對其他國家、對我們駐臺的大使造成騷擾，造成一些困境，請問我們要怎麼處理？要不要積極幫他們主張他們的權益，要吧？"],["林部長佳龍：一定要保護我們駐臺使節跟他們代表處等在外交上面的權益。"],["牛委員煦庭：要不要跟內政部長喊喊話？這個事情要嚴肅辦理……"],["林部長佳龍：它是去登記，但是它辦理的業務或是行為有沒有違法，是需要去查才能夠了解的。"],["牛委員煦庭：掛羊頭賣狗肉……"],["林部長佳龍：我們也不能夠現在就去論斷。"],["牛委員煦庭：你說不能夠現在論斷，但這個很清楚，違反NGO的設立，宣稱自己是商務代表，還協助辦了簽證，結果是假的，被正式的官方代表打槍，這就是標準詐騙，已經被認證了，當然是違法行為，現在有違法行為之後……"],["林部長佳龍：有具體的事證來加以……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以部長你認為到現在這個部分是沒有具體的事證嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：如果就媒體報導，那個是有事證喔！"],["牛委員煦庭：你們部裡面沒有處理過這個事嗎？亞非司有沒有處理過這個事情？"],["賀司長忠義：跟委員報告，這個事情其實我們都有行文給內政部了，他們現在的那個官司在進行，就是我們跟內政部行文之後，他們也制止了它的文件驗證等等的這些作法，後續是因為這個阿拉伯商務協會去提告說，這三個駐臺的毀謗……"],["牛委員煦庭：部長你看，有行文啦！不是沒有處理！"],["賀司長忠義：這是在部長到任之前就已經處理了。"],["牛委員煦庭：我提醒外交部，強度不夠嘛！但是嚴重影響……"],["賀司長忠義：我們持續跟內政部一直在溝通當中。"],["牛委員煦庭：這有可能影響邦誼，是一件大事啊！部長、司長，該強硬就強硬，這個嚴重影響我們的外交狀況，應該請內政部嚴肅處理啊！難道不應該嗎？部長。"],["林部長佳龍：對啊！就是如果有違反登記的目的，去執行不是屬於法定的業務，這當然就要查辦。"],["牛委員煦庭：明確了就要查辦，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：早講就好！"],["林部長佳龍：只是因為後來他們去提告嘛！這個過程我剛剛講的，有關這些駐臺代表或者是他們辦事處相關的外交權益，我們要去維護，這個部分我們最後……"],["牛委員煦庭：這個到最後一定是外交部跟內政部要跨部協商，外交部要強硬一點，因為這會影響邦誼，沙烏地阿拉伯跟我們的感情其實是滿不錯的，即便名稱被人家矮化，但人家就是大使銜，對不對？難得的邦誼，不要因為這樣子的詐騙集團被影響，到時候大家跨部協調，外交部要強硬一點，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：我們一定是依法來執行，然後捍衛我們駐臺代表處的權益。"],["牛委員煦庭：要捍衛我們的邦誼，好不好？辛苦了，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員，部長請回。接下來我們請王鴻薇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":150,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-6","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","徐巧芯","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","黃仁","洪申翰","林楚茵","陳冠廷","林德福","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","賴士葆","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅智強"],"page_start":81,"meetingDate":["2024-10-21"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00003"}}}